The Romance of Osho

Simon Dunster (formerly, Swami Rakkas) discusses his experience of Sannyas and how his views on Osho have changed.

(N.B: Apologies for flaws in presentation, causes unknown).

I was attracted to Osho in the early 80s and together with two brothers, at varying times, became sannyasins. At some point later in the same decade I gave up my name and continued my seeking elsewhere. Over the years I have never lost my affection for Osho, but time and experience revealed to me the limitations of the teacher and the teaching.

The impetus behind this writing was to look back at the reasons for my getting involved, to explore why I left and to make observations on the man, and his lasting effect.

The very first book of his I read was ‘The Mustard Seed’, on the writings of St. Thomas. I was enthralled by the new angle on Jesus that his words evoked.  Not only was his grasp of the gospel fascinating, what he appeared to offer was a perception of the human condition and a direct understanding of my own mind, like no one ever had. As I read further books, so too I found in his words still more recognition of my needs, deepest thoughts and longings.

Remember I was a young man, still in my late 20s, someone still learning about life, work, women, relationships, and very much confused and still naive. The therapy and the meditations seemed to offer ways in which I could resolve largely childhood issues, and behind it all was this still distant and impossibly wise bearded man of the East.

In addition, as scary as it was, Sannyas provided a home of sorts. I was part of a wider movement of young people, with a new purpose. My brother joined the commune and said he would never be back, and later we had the promise of a new world at the Ranch in America. I wore red clothes, marking me out as special, even if it was also challenging in the real world.

As importantly, the romance of the Man himself was deeply attractive. His beautiful face, his eyes, his hypnotic way of speaking, his gestures, his hands, his incredible clothes, all produced an almost mythical, mystical feeling in me. I’d never have admitted it, but his presence was hypnotic. He laughed, told funny stories and his personality was warm, positive and hopeful. Moreover, he promised a new way of life, and unlike other teachers, both the man and the teaching were accessible. He didn’t have a cold or distant temperament, or the ascetic quality of Buddhism. He didn’t convey his teaching in the dry manner of a Krishnamurti or the esoteric style of some other eastern teachers. Osho’s response was to focus on the beauty of life, on our need to discover the wonder of existence and to celebrate.

Such a focus was deeply attractive to those of us coming out of the dark, drab years after the war.

Like many born in the 50s my childhood was relatively sparse and unloving. My parents were divorced, I had no father figure, but was brought up by a single mother. My schooling was somewhat Victorian, and my teachers largely distant. There was no loving, kindly, all-knowing parental figure to guide me. 

Looking back, many sannyasins had similar backgrounds and therefore had similar reasons for seeking out the likes of a father figure like Osho.

Of course I didn’t really recognise this motivation. It was largely unconscious and even if others had differing backgrounds to me, gradually over time, it became clear that many of those interested in him were similarly projecting unfulfilled notions onto Osho.

Take the commune itself as an example.The very idea of a commune itself is a deeply misplaced idea in the modern age, it comes from a spiritual or religious notion that was always a fantastical, romantic vision which was never going to work. Over thousands of years humanity has tried and tested various communal ways of living, each failing due to the effects of our own barbarism and individualism.

The commune idea demonstrated a naivety in Osho himself and it fed our own longing for a misplaced family, in a Buddhafield, with a father figure at its helm. Yet it is one we sannyasins fell for in large numbers.

Later still, when Osho returned to India, the advent of the White Brotherhood idea with its celebratory exclamations of “Osho!” as he entered the auditorium, exemplify this deep longing for connection from both Osho and his disciples. If we’d seen this in a  Christian church we would be horrified but amidst Sannyas it became the norm.

The deepest truth is to see this, not just as “mistakes” by Osho but that it arises out of our own personal desire for connection, wholeness or unity.  All spiritual teachers are dependent on their own self knowledge and on those of their students. Osho believed in these things and therefore so did we. Master and disciple, linked by each other’s ignorance, each awaiting for a solution; usually through outer circumstances to provide them with a new alternative.

Indeed, as the Ranch collapsed many people were so deeply upset by the experience they rejected Osho altogether, upset that their leader was now fallible and amazed and disturbed that this enlightened man hadn’t been able to keep it all together. Whilst others reasoned that the whole episode was a clever “device” or learning opportunity. Both responses, whether positive or negative about the man, express a continued obsession with Osho, the father figure.

His beautiful clothes, the poetic form of speaking, the eyes, the dancing, happy guru is ultimately displaying a romantic facade. In addition, the all-knowing Master confers an idea that is both idealistic, romantic and false. Even today many sannyasins find it difficult to marry their idealistic notions or fantasies about the man with the fact that he acted and made statements that were or have turned out to be quite definitely misplaced or wrong. How could he not see the problems building at the Ranch? How could he allow Sheela so much power? And what about his prophecies? That AIDS would wipe out millions?

Many defend his statements or his actions as “ devices” or means by which his disciples might learn. It’s a clever ruse where we can maintain our own need to see him as omnipresent or omnipotent. To see him any differently is to die to this notion, and also to free oneself from the position as student or disciple.

One of the truest adages of various wisdom teachings is to “Kill the Buddha”. To kill him is to see him for who he truly is, which by definition is to discover one’s own nature.

This is the process of learning to untangle the ideas we have grown up with, to rid ourselves of our childish ways, to see through our romantic, idealistic ideas. It’s a painful process, because it truly is the means by which we free ourselves from putting others, like Osho, on a pedestal. We have to take full responsibility for our lives, we have to see through our own mistakes and most importantly the mistakes of our fathers, mothers, peers, teachers, masters and all. We have to rid ourselves of the authority figures we ourselves have created.

Sadly, Osho was largely not generous to anyone who left him, or to other teachers. In effect, it was ‘his way or the highway’ and over the years many people did move on, for the reasons I hope I have explored.

Many, like me, are grateful but no longer in awe of him. To see his faults and be objective about his teaching doesn’t take anything away, except our misplaced projections and our romantic notions.

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130 Responses to The Romance of Osho

  1. Lokesh says:

    Well written and well thought out article.

    It would seem Simon entered the Osho circus as I was heading for the exit door, which brings up a question.

    Having been with Osho in the early days, I had more exposure to his physical presence. I talked with him many times, sat close to him many times to the point of being very familiar with the scent of the perfumed balm he wore. I often wonder how people became involved with Osho minus such experiences. I wonder because the contact that happened in the early days, I now realize, was irreplaceable for me. If I sit down and close my eyes it is very easy to summon Osho’s spirit up. I can hear his voice saying my name, see his glowing hypnotic eyes, remember how glorious it felt to sit at his feet, receiving his undivided attention.

    To take sannyas at a distance I find myself having difficulty imagining. I really do not know if I would have went for such a remote contact with Osho, because it was my close contact with him that kept me with him for several years. Obviously many people went for the remote contact option, which leaves me curious. In a way Simon’s article sheds a little light on that aspect of the sannyas game. I would like to know the closest physically that Simon came to Osho. Did Simon ever talk to Osho one-on-one?

    Over the years regulars like Shantam have become annoyed with the fact that I mention that I met Osho many times. Like I am making a big deal out of the fact. That I think it makes me special. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was quite a young man during those years and now feel that I did not get the optimum out of my meetings with Osho because I was young, inexperienced and definitely naive. By the time I grew up, thanks in part to Osho’s help, Osho was a small figure on the podium some distance away. Nevertheless, the vibe from my early meetings has remained with me through my life and is still there today.

    During the early eighties I went through a period of being completely disillusioned with many aspects of my life, including my time with Osho. It passed. Today I feel that I was really quite fortunate to have spent time with the man, which probably amounts to about an hour of Osho’s time.
    All the controversy that surrounded Osho post-Ranch etc.bnever really affected me very much. It was his vibe that counted and that vibration is still with me today, I suppose because it is a very positive one.

    • frank says:

      To be frank, when I look back at the whole story, it depends on my mood whether I say: “I am extremely grateful to have been so blessed by the love and consciousness vibes” or “What a crock of cult shit foisted by a cult-leader from central casting on a bunch of self-deluding mugs” or a few other versions in between!

      The good news is it is ultimately all good copy for my upcoming masterpiece:
      ‘Plain Tales from the Orange Sunshine Retirement Home’.

    • swamishanti says:

      Simon D,
      You feel as if you have ‘Killed the Buddha’ , as the Zen saying goes.

      You wrote: “To kill him is to see him for who he truly is, which by definition is to discover one’s own nature.”

      But to kill him in this way, in a mental sense, does not mean that you can necessarily get to know Osho – in an authentic sense.

      If you trust and open yourself to Osho , to any authentic Master for that matter, then a totally different kind of connection arises. These types of mental romantic fantasies that you speak of, the projection of the perfect and all-knowing ‘father-figure’, will drop away of their own accord, as will your perception of Osho being a man on a pedestal.

      Then you experience the guru, Osho, as an energy and a transcendental light and a presence that is within you, without you.

      Of course he took on the role of the guru as well, a role that he played well , including making some human mistakes along the way.

      In the last five years of his life Osho wanted to be known as a ‘friend’. And declared that the traditional relationship of the master and the disciple would be replaced by the age of ‘the friend’.

      In your story you depict the younger you, and you were pulled, as many others were of your age, by this master of masters and his community.

      You saw Osho as a type of father-figure.

      Later on, you became disillusioned and moved into more of a rebellious teenager stage, rebelling against this father-figure Osho, questioning his authority and sincerity. And you moved into other situations and other smaller gurus, like many Western sannyasins in the mid-eighties.

      You question the notion of the ‘device’ in Osho’s work.

      But, Osho didn’t just read a lot and talk about the devices of Gurdjieff or the devices employed by other Sufi and Zen masters, he used them throughout his lifetime.

      And it does not mean that everything that went wrong in Osho’s communes were devices on Osho’s part.

      Without being able to accept that Osho used devices, it becomes impossible to really understand Osho’s life and the way that he worked.

      I listened to a ‘Dalian Method’ podcast on Spotify recently, which featured an interview with Osho’s doctor Amrito, (John Andrews) , Amrito mentioned somewhere that “whenever Osho made another U-turn, another group of people would fall out the back of the van….”

      You remarked of the White Robe Brotherhood:
      “If we’d seen this in a Christian church we would be horrified but amidst Sannyas it became the norm.”

      I don’t get horrified by spiritual practises employed by Christians, when congregating, whether singing or whatever. They have their ways. Even preaching has been part of their thing since they began. The problems as I see it, has been since the early Church, Roman Catholic Church began to be structured and early Christianity was mixed together with other beliefs by the Roman Emperor Constantine, who began to structure an organised religion.
      Jesus , as he became known, was not a esoteric teacher, his teaching was basic, he did not teach meditation but only simple devotion.
      But the Church that came hundreds of years after his death carried dualistic beliefs and created so much fear of everything else that they did not understand – and this fear mongering, and guilt tripping, continues today. Many Americans are still carrying a strong conditioning from their forefathers , the Catholic missionaries who arrived in the land just a couple of hundred years before, and set about converting the Natives, that sometimes produces a moralistic stance that can appear very childish. This attitude of “we’re on the right side and we know better than you how you should be behaving”, has also led to the US being labelled globally as the ‘World’s policeman’.

      Under the Inquisitions ordered by the Catholic Pope, Christians also, inflicted terrible destruction and tortured and murdered many people which they all believed was happening because they were on the right path and on the side of God vs want they believed was ‘not God’.

      But I have no problem with their spiritual practises whether it is prayer, chanting etc.

      I don’t think that White Robe Brotherhood has become the ‘norm’ amidst Sannyas, yet then it does really depend what we mean by ‘Sannyas’. There is no general survey or official census that takes place for Osho sannyasins – what they do, lifestyle, relationships, how they eat, meditate, etc. – and we are really talking about a very wide diaspora of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people – all with different heads and perspectives – across the planet.

      An official ‘sannyas census’ would be really quite interesting.

      The closest thing I have seen to that is probably the Loveosho podcasts, which was an excellent series in which sannyasins were talking about their projects and personal lives as well as their experiences with Osho.

      Some of the Nepali ‘Bhagwan Sannyasins’ video interviews , with first generation sannyasins , such as Swami Bodhicitta, are pretty interesting too.

      I don’t see this White Robe evening meeting as a ‘mistake’ by Osho, but rather a powerful method that he created right in the last year of his life. Unless you have yourself practised it and experience some unwanted effects?

      I never do White Robe Brotherhood. Yet Osho was not Mickey Mouse. He was an extremely intelligent, skilled Master and innovator of structured group meditations and processes that use catharsis as a means to lead one into silence and I have no doubt that there is something in that mix , the evening meeting meditation, which he designed using particular ingredients with his cosmic cooking. The use of ‘Osho’, can also be used an an invocation as part of that process. I remember at one point in 1989 he said it could be used as a mantra.

      But regular practitioners of the White Robe would be the ones to ask for their experience. I think Amrito talks about his experiences with White Robe brotherhood , which spans over 30 years , somewhere on YouTube.

    • simond says:

      Thank you for your generous comments and feedback, Lokesh.

      No, I didn’t meet Osho personally, only seeing him in the auditorium in Poona, over a few weeks. I never got the hit that you speak of and at the time I felt disappointed that he hadn’t looked at me. That was just my emotional self wishing for attention; the child in me looking for daddy.

      His effect on me was always through what I see as the Mind. The way I see it, everything is discovered through the mind. I know that in some circles the quest is to go beyond what we normally describe as the Mind, but I see all sensation and experience is through the mind. In the same way that it’s only through the mind, through the avenue of consciousness, that we feel or know the body. I hope that makes sense to you. And by Mind, I clearly don’t mean what we might call the intellect.

      It was through understanding more of the reasons for my unhappiness that I became more contented. In a single few words he could inform me and open me to a new perspective, to a place beyond words and beyond the need to understand. This type of experience has been common amongst those who saw, spoke or read him. Many will refer to it as a mystical connection to within and to the guru. He too spoke of this power and in some ways it was perhaps the source of his own undoing, as he seemed to believe in his own omnipotence, as many gurus do.

      It was my job, as it is still is, to incorporate this place beyond words and beyond meaning into my own life. To make it, as it were, my own. He too would occasionally speak of how it was up to us personally to incorporate whatever he was showing us into our own lives, independent of the need for him at all. To live and breathe and love.

      This is how I often see you speaking of your own experience There has been no simple eureka moment that changed everything, you continued to learn and suffer and live Life as best you could, to the extent that you found other teachers. You didn’t remain fixed to his teaching or to any clever ideology. You own your “mistakes” as the source of your own particular learning and in doing so, you retain an honesty and humility and a continued sense of self-discovery and delight

      I hope you’ll allow me to comment on your thoughts as to how differing people experienced Osho? You got the vibe that you speak of, and mention how because it was positive it had a lasting effect. You also wonder how others could have felt or imbibed his presence without meeting him as you did. It was for you particularly important, but I hope you’ll also see that the many varied connections people had with Osho are, for each person, as authentic and real, but just differ from your own.

      You might say, this is an example of his mysterious power, a power beyond both his or our understanding. Who can really know the effects he had on another? That’s the mystery, isn’t it? You added in your last sentence that this effect lasted as it was so positive, but couldn’t a negative effect last as long? Isn’t it your own experience that negative vibes are also everlasting; that is, until they are dealt with?

      I know you, like many other commentators here and many sannyasins and others, also have felt this incredible presence and stillness in Osho and his energetic ability to stop the thinking process. It acted as a source of wonder that someone could do this to you, as it did to me.

      For me His presence passed, and I could never hold onto him or remember. I may have wished for stillness and a feeling of Love or bliss, through his pictures or through meditation but it was always only ever fleeting that I ever found any stillness or sense of well-being at all.

      I made the same mistake, for a while, that I see many spiritual seekers do, of seeking stillness and peace through techniques and meditations and through Osho himself.

      For me, It has been through living, loving, losing and relating as intimately as I can with others, that the breakdown of any self-identity has occurred. Any more more lasting contentment has been been the consequence or by-product of this very difficult process. It’s a challenging notion to realise that the seeking process, and in particular the seeking of stillness or peace itself, takes us on a never-ending journey to nowhere. It’s just adding more self-identity and more personality and therefore taking us further away.

      I’m sure we could find an Osho quote where he makes it very clear that it’s through losing everything that we suddenly find our truer, deeper Self.

      • Lokesh says:

        Simond, my overall impression from reading your above post is that you are making a genuine attempt to share. I appreciate that.

        There have been moments on SN that I’ve felt I’m giving away too much about myself. After all, this is a public blog. Usually, I just say ‘Fuck it’ and let it fly. I am definitely not who I think I am anyway.

        I think it is important to reach a place in one’s self where you understand that gurus and genuine spiritual masters etc. are only representatives of a benign, intelligent, compassionate force, presence, that is in fact inside of us all buried beneath the detritus one accumulates during the course of a human lifetime. Personally speaking, I no longer have a need for an outward manifestation of that which is within.

        Were it not for SN I would rarely think much about Osho. I have one close Scottish friend I have known since I was 5. We took sannyas round about the same time. He is a very meditative and intelligent man. We have a video chat every couple of weeks. He is a very no-nonsense, straight-talking, Zen kind of man, so it always surprises me that in the course of our talks he inevitably brings up how blessed he was to have spent time with Osho. It is so out of character from his usual here and now self, but his conviction is so authentic I have to respect it.

        My conclusion is that Osho affected and left a lasting and positive impact on many people’s lives, no matter what physical proximity or external contact they had with him. It was an inner thing. Osho really was that powerful. Like my friend, I have to respect and acknowledge that.

      • Thanks, Simon, for creating an honest, sincere, penetrating article.

        All those who follow any cult one day ask the question, what was the motive and intention? After all, it does not happen every year or in a decade, some people get mesmerised by the wise oratory and follow with closed analytical mind.

        Yesterday evening, at silent room of Sauna Wellness studio, I have seen this nicely written self- analytical prose; not many people show this honesty; this is quite clear on this site too.

        After Bhagwan you continued your seeking elsewhere; is there a name of that elsewhere? For example, that elsewhere is Punja ji of Lucknow for Lokesh.

        To read this “elsewhere” thing, my reaction was, Simon was first addicted to packed, branded pack then he switched to self-rolling tobacco paper.

  2. Lokesh says:

    Yes, Frank, somehow I have managed to weld the two aspects together into a coherent whole that I am content to live with.

  3. satchit says:

    For my taste the author talks too often of ‘we’ and ‘us’.

    Sannyas is a way you walk alone and only you alone are responsible how you create your sannyas-story, nobody else.

    Btw, it is not a physical matter. The attraction can happen without physical contact or even after the death of the master.

  4. Lokesh says:

    I can’t relate to the Osho the father-figure issue at all.

    I might have been inexperienced and naive when I first met Osho, but I was not stupid enough to project such an image upon him. I think in the early days especially that a lot of intelligent people were attracted to Osho and most of those people were not looking for a cosmic daddy figure. They understood that such projections were a mistake. Osho probably warned them about such a thing. Osho was more honest in the early days.

    • People changed their names and attire and started wearing the locket of a bearded man. If this Charisma is not following a father-figure then what should it be called?

      As a student of Astrology I know the deluded capacity of Sagittarius sign. One can have a cake and eat it too is a typical Sagittarius version of life.

      Those who are lucky enough to proclaim head is mine, tail is also mine, one day see the coin is being snatched from them.

      • frank says:

        That people could relate extremely respectfully to, and follow the sage advice of a man 20 or 30 years older than themselves for some years and that not play into some image of fatherliness seems a tad far-fetched to me.

        Then, of course, there is the phenomenon of gurus calling themselves Dadaji, Papaji and Ammaji.
        Why would they do that?

        It doesn`t seem beyond the realms of possibility that, at best, having a better/wiser father image to relate to could even serve as some kind of healing process that could happen by being with a guru.

        • simond says:

          Yes, it is healing, Frank, and helpful. It’s part of the process of finding oneself to be guided by someone more experienced than me.

          It only becomes a problem if I don’t also see the downside to that process. That being the need to finally be free of an authority figure.

          • frank says:

            Simon,
            Btw, thanks for kicking off the conversation with your piece.

            Firstly, is the need to finally be free of an authority figure an absolute?
            After all, we are highly social animals/apes with all the territoriality, need for status, protection etc. that goes with that.

            Apparently, there are some vegetarian orangutangs that are loners and don`t need groups but they are the small minority, primate-wise. The majority of baboons however are probably quite happy to have the protection of an alpha up top, it might be their only way to be secure about getting enough bananas and the odd shag.

            We need authorities in all sorts of matters, medical, mechanical, educational and maybe psycho-spiritual.

            But is the issue authority per se, or what comes to be misuse/abuse of the power which that authority bestows? That would be a different issue altogether.

            I personally think that the style of authority that was wielded in the Osho scene was extremely questionable in many cases and on many levels. The reverberations were the odd goings-on from the get-go through the Sheela/Ranch debacle and on to the warring factions and the extensive abuse scandals (that pretty much go right back to day one) that rage on Facebook today.

            All of these stories are/were basically about abuse of power. The pyramidal/authoritarian structure did not work against that. Quite the opposite, it enabled it.

            So is it a kind of spirit authority with a capital A that you`re trying to be free from? Or more like spiritual gangsterism and abuse based on a bunch of people giving away their power that is the problem?

            • simond says:

              Hi Frank,
              Thanks for the feedback.

              You’re correct, of course, in the need for authority in many areas of the world. I’m very happy to accept the authority of an electrician, plumber, surgeon etc.

              And in growing up I accept the need for a teacher or parent to guide me, and to act as an authority figure. Children need boundaries as well as the opportunities to take risks.

              I also accepted the need for a guru to act as an authority figure to guide and direct me in terms of my psychological, or dare I say it, spiritual development.

              The danger as I’ve seen in the latter authority figures, is (as you also confirm ) that they can only advise and guide. They are always fallible.

              The whole Osho experiment was an example of how I learned that trust can be misplaced.

              I have no regrets or any bitterness. He, like me, was part of the experiment.
              Indeed this whole matrix seems like an experiment of sorts!

              • frank says:

                Simond, agreed it`s an experiment. An interesting thing is that the English words experiment and experience both translate into ‘expérience’ in French. Maybe there`s something in that.

                Authority is an interesting word, too.
                On one level an authority is the author who authors/writes your script for you.
                You may seek autonomy if you feel that the script is not suited to your style and then your autonomy clashes with the authority.

                Difficulties can arise when the authority claims, either explicitly or implicitly, to be the ultimate authority and your autonomy is deemed just your crappy ego.
                I think that may be the boundary of the issue.
                And I`m sure it`s happened to all of us in one way or another.

                I think killing buddhas might be going a bit far, but some of them need to be taken in for questioning, for sure.

                • satchit says:

                  Without so-called authority there would not be a Master-disciple game possible.

                  Someone must sit on the chair and teach.
                  The others sit on the ground and listen.

                  But truth is also that the Master-disciple game is a passage.

                • Klaus says:

                  Happy New Year!

                  @Frank

                  You are joking, aren’t you?

                  You do not think that we should “kill the Buddha” as person?

                • frank says:

                  Hi Klaus,
                  Happy New Year.

                  No, I don`t think Buddhas should be killed.
                  Just roughed up a bit.

  5. satchit says:

    “Osho was more honest in the early days.”

    This is your projection, Lokesh.

    If he was a mirror then He was it from the beginning to the very end.

    • Satchit, have you seen the mirror, even broken pieces of the mirror?

      Mr. O was talking about mirror but selling memory mobile devices. People who went to him or his commune are lifelong hooked.

      Bhagwan aka O´s work was one of its kind mixture, love me and love each other. Many got fcuked in this process, including the boss.

      After all, those who fight with the sword, die with the sword.

      Long live the memories and The Lessons….

      • satchit says:

        Shantam, you are a great storyteller.

        Tell me one thing: What do you see when you look into the mirror?

        • Satchit, I see a young boy in me getting old.

          I see also the sadness of a nice person who could not participate in any career, specially the neo-spirituality, yet there is a contentment in the eyes, I did not allure people in the name of self-declared Enlightenment, did not propagate light is transmitted as infection just like Corona by sitting with Covid-Positive person.

          Maybe many of us who followed Master in their career formative years feel more or less similar thoughts; thanks to be alive and appreciating life´s drama on a big screen.

    • Lokesh says:

      I wondered what fish I would catch with that baited hook. In poker, a fish is the sucker at the table. Also known as a “donkey,” or “live one.” It’s a derogatory term for someone who is not very good at poker.

  6. kavita says:

    I guess like most matters, this too is a purely subjective matter – Romancing the Master!

    The romance for me started without his body – ‘Buddha Field’, as that was the term floating in the Commune in those days, was fascinating for me! I somehow effortlessly floated in that; many times I think words have make such a great impact on me/us!

    In the early days I would weep uncontrollably for not getting to meet him!
    Later came to terms with it, like many other things!

    Now, I think (I am glad), maybe I never took his van as seriously as Amrito!

    SS, thankyou, I could relate the most with your post of29 December, 2021 at 10:27pm.

  7. Klaus says:

    Simond Dunster
    30 December 2021

    Thumbs up for a very self-reflective account, Simond.

    You seem to have done very well with working through the mistakes and conditionings of the growing up times. Being successful in ‘cleaning out’ I guess is more than most of the people on this planet can hope for.

    That should already be reason for joy and celebration without end, imo! Congrats! There is/was no guarantee for such healing to happen. Also not with other teachers. Note: people with real traumas should have seen a psychologist….

    Most of us, I guess again – me for sure! – started out immature, lacking in perspective, feeling insecure, inadequate, naive, hopeful, trustful, whatever. Then one has experiences in life, learns, errs, gains insights and so on. This is possible in worldly matters as well as in spiritual matters:

    If one wants to learn French one studies with a French teacher; one does not know which lessons are ahead nor the sequence of them. One selects the teacher or institution on the basis of experience of others, recommendations, or brand (uuuhhh, the marketing) or closeness to home. If one makes good progress, one can study at Oxbridge University or any other name and become a professor oneself. Depending on the needs of the personality.

    With spiritual institutions it is a little bit similar, but it is also different:
    The personal, the “I”, comes into question. For the Western mind the question of proof arises. The motive is questionned, i.e. escapism, searching for authority figures, being a failure and a dropout, even Oedipus is quoted: the after-the-war-generations growing up in emotionally severe environments and the developments and opportunities of the 60s ‘love & peace’.

    Then, after some years of practice and adherence to a teacher and a method there was no obligation to stay ‘with the tribe’. Even if it was our choice and wish at the beginning. No contracts signed, no cancellations and notices required.

    I find it interesting that you are questioning the commune model as I also never felt comfortable with the dynamics, there are hierarchies as well: oldies and newcomers, more outgoing persons, more timid persons etc. Some kind of “survival of the fittest” going on.

    Finally, each path is totally individual. It has to be walked by the individual. Sooner or later – with luck, quality of teachings, favourable conditions, perseverence etc. – one stands on one’s own two feet.

    Everybody has had (many) teachers in this life. They also come and go.

    The quality question arose (arises?) also with what was offered in Poona Koregaon Park:
    Somebody asked the Vipassana teachers in the late 70s where they gained their qualifications… Answer was: Oh, there was a need observed by management and we have been appointed only 14 days before…ouch.

    Cheers!

  8. Klaus says:

    Simon D,
    Now I forgot to address the interesting question of whether the path of “Love” or the path of “Meditation” is more effective.

    Simon describes his path in this way:
    “For me, It has been through living, loving, losing and relating as intimately as I can with others, that the breakdown of any self-identity has occurred. Any more more lasting contentment has been been the consequence or by-product of this very difficult process. It’s a challenging notion to realise that the seeking process, and in particular the seeking of stillness or peace itself, takes us on a never-ending journey to nowhere. It’s just adding more self-identity and more personality and therefore taking us further away.”

    That to me is one of the first accounts that someone lost all of the self-identity on the path of Love.

    Love and/or meditation? Which one is more helpful in the process?
    Are those different? Are they leading to different ends?
    Which one is suitable for which person? Has this to be found outtrial and error?

    We could collect personal experiences, pros and cons, all relevant quotes and links!

    Interesting!

    • Klaus says:

      Imo, to make the stance more specific it should have been formulated thus:
      “It’s a challenging notion to realise that my (the) seeking process, and in particular my (the) seeking of stillness or peace itself, takes me (us) on a never-ending journey to nowhere. It’s just adding more self-identity and more personality and therefore taking me (us) further away.”

      Satchit stated similar above.

  9. Innumerable times Master is heard saying, people like Buddha, Mahavira, Jesus, Mohammad etc. and so on…one can always notice an empty space where he sees himself among these names who became the backbones of religious empires; few are really multinationals.

    Not just master or head master, there are Messianic undercurrents, his followers created books mentioning even Nostradamus had predicted all the signs and symptoms of world teacher of our time, none other than Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

    The so-called new name of four-letter word was chosen out of desperation.

    No wonder ideas of gone Pisces age could not and cannot sustain themselves in Aquarius age. The writing on this site is a clear proof, master was relying too much on the western people who were treating him more like a Psychiatrist rather than Prophet.

    One needs to have Indo-Nepali genes to create Prophet out of wise man.

    The problem is we are not living in the times of Buddha. The idea that it will take another 500 years for the world to understand the genius of bathrobes-wearing community is a pure wishful thinking. Nothing like that is going to happen ever. If not God then Existence has changed the times. Was can never be is, what to say about will?

    • frank says:

      Perfectly correct, Shantam!

      The Bungabunga ashram management wishes to inform you that some of your recent sutras are due to be included in new years edition of the Bhorat Bible.

      “It will take another 500 years for the world to understand the genius of bathrobes-wearing community.”

      “The so-called new name of four-letter word was chosen out of desperation.”

      His blessings.

    • satyadeva says:

      Shantam, why does it matter to you whether or not Osho becomes an inspiration for yet another ‘religious empire’?

      Was that what he wanted, or is that what you imagined was on the agenda, what you’d have preferred, in order to feel as if you were part of something ‘substantial’, perhaps a potentially major world-changing institution and therefore ‘hugely significant’, that you could point to and thus elevate yourself in your own eyes and in the eyes of the world, instead of now imagining you have little or nothing to show from all that time around the master and his people at his hq?

      I recently asked you whether you think you benefited in any ways from your Sannyas experience, but you’ve ignored the question, presumably as it was inconvenient, not fitting your ‘hard done by’ personal narrative.

      Or perhaps you think you gained nothing, that it was all a total waste of time, a sort of ‘con-trick’ even?

      What do you think Sannyas was/is about?

      • SD, you can look yourself without glasses of perception, Mr. O from the very beginning was clear to create multinational religious empire based on the collective longing of Love, Life, Laughter.

        There is a big difference between a journalist student who wants to have his media empire and those who just want to work for media.

        O was an Entrepreneur, not a corner shop owner like Barry Long.

        As I have observed, O was not of your type, Barry Long was.
        So you need to change your perception to understand water melon is not a honey melon!

        • satyadeva says:

          Thanks, Shantam (although what BL has to do with this, apart from your gratuitous attempt to put me down, defeats me).

          But what does it actually matter to you whether there’s a “multinational empire” or not? Can you provide an honest, self-reflective answer, please? (see the second paragraph of my previous post, 11.51am today).

          I’m still waiting to hear about what you personally have gained from all those years around Osho. Surely there must be something you can dredge up from the morass of disillusion you’re continually wallowing in?

          • What I have gained from all those years around Osho is a very simple insight:: there is no alternative to honesty and truth.

            Master started His work with these notes, as in the game of snakes and ladders, he got infected by lies and deceptions; a victim of his own´s peoples shadowy intentions.

            Lessons are very clear: wisdom, like Love, is not a permanent state, it is not noun but verb. Whether a small boat or yacht, small hole is enough to sink the thing.

            What I have also gained from Pune years is an insight to create an abode for seekers is a mammoth task.

            I salute master for creating one-of-its-kind establishment.

            I read all the news about Elon Musk, but I long for the work not to sell real estate on Mars but create “Meeting place of friends”, as I have seen the final chapter of O creation.

            PS:
            Being a passionate student of Astrology-related subjects, I won´t use that four-letter word chosen for Master.

            Maybe I create an article what one of the most read esoteric author Cheiro would say about that toxic word ‘Osho’.

            • satyadeva says:

              Shantam, you focus on externals – the movement, creating a commune, admin flaws of hierarchy and of Osho.

              You appear to place no value on self-enquiry, which is surely what Sannyas is about?

              No wonder you often seem depressed, chronically disillusioned, repeating ad nauseam the same old discontent – it’s the price one pays for relying upon outer conditions for well-being, for purpose. Are you yourself honest enough to see and accept that basic truth?

            • frank says:

              Shantam,
              According to the numerology system in “Cheiro`s book of numbers” , (that occult masterpiece that I once bought at a railway book stall for 5 rupees and later had stolen by a thief posing as a holyman), the word ‘OSHO’, if my memory serves me correctly, would add up to the number 22.

              Chiero describes the symbolism of the number as “a good man blinded by the folly of others, with a knapsack on his back full of errors. It is a warning of illusion and delusion in a person who lives in a fool`s paradise…”

              Is that how you see Osho?
              I must admit it reminds me of someone….

              • Lokesh says:

                That toxic word ‘Osho’?
                I do not see any toxicity about the word. Only time I have come across it elsewhere is in ‘The Book of Five Rings’. It is used in Japan like the English word ‘priest’.

                • satchit says:

                  It’s not about the word.

                  Osho is toxic to him because he does not fulfil Shantam’s expectations.

                  Everbody who does not fulfil his expectations is toxic to him.

                • frank says:

                  By the same Cheiro system, the name Shantam adds up to 23.
                  Chiero says about it: “The number 23 is the `Royal Star of the Lion`. It is a promise of success, help from superiors and protection from those in high places. A most fortunate number and a promise for success for one`s plans.”

                  So according to Chiero, Osho is toxic and the sun shines out of Shantam`s ass.

                  To be fair, Chiero and the Chaldeans did a pretty good job of keeping that bit of esoteric knowledge occult and hidden!

                • frank says:

                  Btw, Occultists take the “23 Enigma” very seriously indeed.

                  Did you know that:
                  1. Each parent contributes 23 chromosomes to the DNA of a child.
                  2. It takes 23 seconds for blood to circulate throughout the entire body.
                  3. In humans, the 23rd chromosome determines gender.
                  4. There are 23 letters in the Latin alphabet.
                  5. Julius Caesar was stabbed 23 times when he was assassinated.
                  6. Earth’s axis is off by 23.5 degrees.
                  7. The Knights Templar had 23 Grand Masters.
                  8. William Shakespeare was born on April 23, 1564.
                  9. William Shakespeare died on April 23, 1616.
                  10. The ancient Egyptian and Sumerian calendars begin on July 23.
                  11. The Titanic sank the morning of April 15th, 1912 (4 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 9 + 1 + 2 = 23)
                  12. The Mayans believed the world will end on December 23, 2012 (20 + 1 + 2 = 23)
                  13. Jim Carrey’s production company is JC23 Entertainment.
                  14. John Dillinger robbed 26 banks, but only 23 for money.
                  15. The distance from the centre of Mars to its nearest moon is 23,500 km.
                  16. 230 people died on TWA Flight 800.
                  17. Kurt Cobain was born in 1967: 1+9+6+7 = 23.
                  18. Kurt Cobain died in 1994: 1+9+9+4 = 23.
                  19. “The Number 23″ began filming on January 23, 2006.
                  20. The letters in Joel Schumacher and Jim Carrey’s names add up to 23.
                  21. The letters in Virginia Madsen and Jim Carrey’s names add up to 23.
                  22. Charles Manson was born on November 12th (11 + 12 = 23)
                  23. The letters in Shantam`s name add up to 23

                  The truth is out there!

      • frank says:

        Hang on, I think I know the answer to this one.

        When I took Sannyas I got one of those headed notepaper messages from Bhagwan.
        It said:
        “Sannyas is a celebration, not a worship. Worship becomes petrified, celebration remains alive. And celebrate in your own way because celebration cannot have any fixed form. That is my message.”

    • Klaus says:

      @Shantam

      You should factor into your algorithm the possiblity of people having had more than one life.

      That could then explain why some of the people born in the West – this time – have had more benefit from the Eastern teachings than other people born in the East – this time.

      For many people Osho has not been the first and only spiritual teacher, too.

      Nothing to complain about, however.

  10. Lokesh says:

    Shantam declares, “The problem is we are not living in the times of Buddha.”
    Why is that a problem? Buddha addresses questions that are eternal in relation to mankind. It makes no difference what period one is living through in history.

    • Lokesh, the word “problem” is written by me in an Indian vernacular form and how you have taken it shows there was an immense communication gap between Bhagwan Shree and His name-changed, foreign-born disciples.

      This is one main reason blunder after blunder took place in real life terms.
      As I have written many times, professor of finance thought to create bank with his students and when bank got burst due to lack of real life wisdom, blame was put on regulators as well as customers.

      Now as per your sentence, “Buddha addresses questions that are eternal in relation to mankind”, this shows without that Buddha you would not have known end result of plus multiplied by minus is always minus.

      It is bloody stuck record of 1970s to adore long gone people as contemporaries.

      If you are aware about the last talks of master; he has even confessed to use all the ancient names and texts as hangers to get His people.

      No wonder his people used him too for the services he provided and paid the bill accordingly.

      Nothing is free, it is all give and take..

      • Lokesh says:

        Shantam says, “The word “problem” is written by me in an Indian vernacular.”
        Ohhhh…now I get it. That explains everything.

        As you state so clearly, “this shows without that Buddha you would not have known end result of plus multiplied by minus is always minus.” I am sure this is something everyone will understand. Get well soon.

  11. frank says:

    Back to the topic.
    Maybe time for a customer satisfaction survey.

    Please find 5 minutes to fill in our Gurucult™ Customer Services Survey.
    On a scale of 0-10 please rate the following:
    How satisfied are you by your guru`s overall performance?
    How do you rate the helpfulness and spiritual advancement of the disciples?
    How long have you been using the guru?
    Which alternatives did you consider before surrendering to the guru?
    Does the guru help you achieve your goals?
    What is your favourite thing about the guru?
    Least favourite thing?
    What would you improve if you could?
    Which features do you consider the most valuable?
    Which of the guru’s teachings do you use most often in your day-to-day life?
    Overall, are you satisfied with the quality of enlightenment on offer?
    Will you be renewing your discipleship, cancelling or moving to another provider?
    Would you recommend your guru to friends and family?

    Thankyou for taking the time.
    Your enlightenment is important to us.

    • Klaus says:

      Damn, some of these funny questions are really hard to answer…

      • Klaus says:

        Ok. I will give it a go. Beware!

        How satisfied are you by your guru`s overall performance?
        U Pandita Sayadaw 10.0
        Osho 9.7

        How do you rate the helpfulness and spiritual advancement of the disciples?
        U Pandita Sayadaw 10.0
        Osho 5.8

        How long have you been using the guru?
        5-7 years

        Which alternatives did you consider before surrendering to the guru?
        1 year intensive vipassana from Bodhgaya to Rangoon

        Does the guru help you achieve your goals?
        2

        What is your favourite thing about the guru?
        His intelligence and beyondness.

        Least favourite thing?
        Management.

        What would you improve if you could?
        More silent retreats without dresscode.

        Which features do you consider the most valuable?
        Potential of finding love for one’s own self.

        Which of the guru’s teachings do you use most often in your day-to-day life?
        Sky gazing.

        Overall, are you satisfied with the quality of enlightenment on offer?
        9

        Will you be renewing your discipleship, cancelling or moving to another provider?
        Never considered myself ‘a real disciple’, but more of an outsider; tried various providers; sitting silently wherever I was proved best.

        Would you recommend your guru to friends and family?
        1

        • frank says:

          Congratulations, you have been entered into our enlightenment prize draw lottery.
          Only one entry per person.
          The winner will be drawn at random.
          Enlightenment is non-exchangeable, non-transferable and no cash alternatives will be offered.
          The decision by the universe regarding any aspect of the prize is final and binding.

  12. samarpan says:

    “I talked with him many times, sat close to him many times to the point of being very familiar with the scent of the perfumed balm he wore. I often wonder how people became involved with Osho minus such experiences.” (Lokesh)

    Probably the same way people “became involved” with Gurdjieff without ever being physically close, or the way Christians become Christians or Muslims become Muslims or Buddhists become Buddhists without a physical meeting, without ever smelling balm on skin.

    “My people are my friends, they are not my followers. So there is not a single Rajneeshee in the whole world. They love me. So first you will have to drop the idea of somebody being a Rajneeshee.” (Osho, ‘The Last Testament; vol. 5, chapter 24)

    • “My people are my friends, they are not my followers. So there is not a single Rajneeshee in the whole world. They love me. So first you will have to drop the idea of somebody being a Rajneeshee.” (Osho, ‘The Last Testament’ vol. 5, chapter 24)

      Who Likes to adore such crap?
      Basically, such crap destroyed the whole Sannyas movement.

      Master and His commanders had this bad habit to prove all the time, head is mine, tail is also mine, and for that to use all kind of words jugglery.

      Anyway, this four-letter word is not master´s name. His name is Rajneesh and there is not a single sentence where he is heard dropping the name.

      I will offer Samarpan 5 euros if he finds a single sentence where master has dropped his name and adopted the four-letter ‘Osho’.

      • Klaus says:

        Simon started the thread out of love.

        And here we are.

        No perception beyond concepts.

      • satchit says:

        5 Euros only? One sees what a miser you are.

        • frank says:

          Certainly, the western baboons cannot be expected to understand the occult significance of 5 Euros!
          It is certainly the enigma of 23 at play again!
          For those who have the eyes to see, 2+3=5!

          Shantambhai is a “good man blinded by the folly of others” as made clear by Cheiro who has certainly come to this conclusion by conferring closely with Nine Men of Mighty Bhorat!

          It is clear to those adepts who are extremely advanced in the occult arts learned from Wheelers bookstalls at Indian railway stations, that due to occult forces beyond his control, Shantam`s life has been going downhill since he was 23!
          And by 2021 (20+2+1=23), completely nosedived!

          Not only that, but he has been subject to repeated black magic attacks from white-skinned cultists using toxic four-letter words like `Osho`!

          Shantam has certainly also suffered from many other toxic four-letter words whole life! As well as Osho, there has been gora, girl, knob, boob, porn, wank, twat, arse, wife, dole, meds, fail, diet, to name but a few!

          Yahoo!

      • swamishanti says:

        I remember having some tapes of Osho discourses, from the ‘90’s, after Osho had left the body. Those cassettes were of poor design, breaking easily and manufactured in India, the writing on the tapes specified the discourse series and ‘Osho Rajneesh’ has been written over the top of ‘Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh’.

        In later years, the tapes carried simply ‘Osho’ but then we entered the era of the dvd and cd.
        Osho himself played around with several names, one being ‘Shree Rajneesh Zorba the Buddha’.
        But he himself accepted ‘Osho’, and back in the ‘70s had said that he would be dropping ‘Bhagwan’ when it had served its purpose.

        As for the ‘movement’ – it seems many more people have come since he left his body, just as he predicted.

        Of course, without his body-mind, the Master is no longer able to take unexpected u-turns or create devices to shake off those who are not the most devoted or lack trust.

        But many sannyasins of today seem afraid of the idea of religion being created out of Osho, for the master himself didn’t want his work to turn into another organised religion, for obvious reasons.

        He envisaged his idea of the ‘New Man’ to be free of all religions.

        • satchit says:

          The master was not stupid.

          He knew the paradox of the mind.

          The more he will preach against religion, the more it will become a religion.

          The religion of the religionless.

          • frank says:

            Certainly, religionless religion created by feckless feckers must promote legless legacy inside gateless gate!

            It is utterly necessary for shameless shamans and pantless pandits to chase topless totty and strapless slappers in order to experience loveless love with sexless sexgurus with egoless egos!

            Yahoo!

          • swamishanti says:

            The “religionless religion”. But apparently, Osho did say at some point that ‘Nepal will be the country of my religion…’ or something to that effect. Nepal is a small country and there certainly are thousands of sannyasins there.

            “Yes, I am the beginning of something new, but not the beginning of a new religion. I am the beginning of a new kind of religiousness which knows no adjectives, no boundaries; which knows only freedom of the spirit, silence of your being, growth of your potential; and finally the experience of godliness within yourself — not of a God outside you, but a godliness overflowing from you.

            The old religions are just corpses, stinking; still they are immensely powerful, because the whole past has given them prestige, authority. And nobody wants to leave power and authority. They go on manipulating humanity, exploiting human beings; they go on keeping you retarded. They don’t want you to evolve, because the moment you evolve and you become intelligent, you will be free from the bondage which is their vested interest…

            Yes, I am the beginning of something new. You can call it religiousness, but don’t call it religion.”

            (Osho: ‘The Last Testament’, Vol. 5)

            • swamishanti says:

              Swami Anand Arun and Swami Prem Amrito seem to be pulling Osho in different directions:

              • satchit says:

                You mean pulling Osho in directionless directions!

                • swamishanti says:

                  When I visited Durbah Square in Kathmandhu, and viewed some of the tantric sculptures there, I got the feeling that Nepal had quite a ‘tantric’ vibe as an undercurrent of its culture.

                  Fertile ground, perhaps, for another lineage of tantric Buddhas to flower, just like its neighbouring Tibet. And as well as sannyasins , there are are lots of Tibetans walking around…There, in Kathmandhu, I noticed that large marijuana plants were growing just like stinging needles by the side of the road.

                  “Pulling in directionless directions…”

                  I have seen this Nepali tantric sculpture in Durbah Square, shown below, of a women pulling two men in different directions…This kind of scene, and acceptance of sexual pleasures, with three participants – especially in a highly spiritual environment, will be unacceptable for some of those Roman Catholics on the spiritual scene today, of course.

                  The Catholic Church disapproves of masturbation.

                  Unmarried Catholics are expected to express chastity through sexual abstinence. Among what are considered sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography and homosexual practices.

                  It is a sin for sexual activity to take place outside of marriage.

                  But the fact is that deep within the walls of the Roman Catholic monasteries, where sex is looked down upon as a sin, forbidden and suppressed, where all of the monks now taken a lifetime vow of chastity and celibacy, it is common to find these kind of ‘pulling’ activities going on behind the scenes – and mutual mastubation – except, of course, with no women involved.

                  This kind of sexual activity, although unnaceptable by the Bible, is apparently very common in the Catholic monasteries but the Abbots will generally turn a blind eye to it.

                • frank says:

                  Not just Catholic monasteries. That sort of stuff is pretty common in Tibetan monasteries too.

                  Does having a statue of two guys getting pulled off really say much about the sexual freeness of the culture? It`s not clear. The woodworkers were just as likely having having a laugh.

                  Have you never seen or heard of a Sheela Na gig statue on churches or arsehole gargoyles? I don`t think they represent Xian doctrine.

                  MOD:
                  “Sheela Na gig” – is that right, Frank?

                • swamishanti says:

                  I am sure it goes on in most monasteries. But the Catholics have the worst reputation because of their absolute condemnation of sex. The Tibetans have for example, many tantric Buddhas and deities.

                  But when I spent time in Nepal I felt there was a tantric vibe and it wasn’t only because of those carvings and sculptures I viewed in Kathmandhu, or the large painting of Osho I saw on the side of a building in Pokhara.

                  And I remember talking to a a drunken Nepali man in a bar, a Sherpa trekking guide and porter who was complaining to me about a Western woman and how she told him, “Oh, I want to suck your dick” when they were on a trek together on the Annapurna range and how he preferred Nepali sweet ladies who are much more reserved.

                  Anyway, a tantric mystic named Gorakh, from Shiva’s line has been said to have had a major influence on Nepal.

                  Gorakh was said to have become enlightened after spending three years of intense meditation in the mountains surrounding Kathmandu.

                  After enlightenment he was said to travel around Nepal, and also influenced the Nepali monarchy, and the King became a disciple of Gorakh.

                  When Kings become involved it creates a major influence. Anyway, Gorakh is said to be widely respected in Nepal.

                  I had no idea of this when I was last in Nepal.

                  Apparently, the King of Nepal was also very interested in Osho when he visited in 1986.

                  Osho was once asked for his favourite seven Indian masters. Osho narrowed it down to four and Gorakh was included.
                  The four masters were Krishna, Patanjali, Buddha and Gorakh.

                  “Another mystic, Gorakh, a tantrika, a man so versed, so efficient in all the methods of Tantra that anybody in India who knows many businesses is known as doing gorakh-dhandha. Gorakh-dhandha means ‘in the business of Gorakh’. People think one should stick to one’s own business. Gorakh moved in all directions, in all dimensions.

                  Gorakh’s full name was Gorakh-nath. It must have been given by his disciples, because nath means lord. Gorakh has given all the keys possible to enter into the inner mysteries. He has said everything that can be said. He is, in a way, a full stop.
“

                  (Osho: ‘Books I Have Loved’, Chapter 7)

                  “Gorakh cannot be dropped because Gorakh became a new beginning for this country… Gorakh is the first link of a chain. Through him a new type of religion was born…Gorakh had a rare individuality, similar to Einstein. Einstein gave such penetrating methods for investigating the truth of the universe, as no one before him had given. Yes, now they can be further developed, now a finer edge can be put on them. In the inner world the same situation exists with Gorakh.”

                  (Osho: ‘Death is Divine’)

                • frank says:

                  Yes, there are hundreds or more, on churches all over Christian world.
                  `Entrance to woman`, pagan style sneaked in by undercover pagan artists or black magic Xians, maybe. Who knows?

                • swamishanti says:

                  I doubt those ones that can be found on Christian churches were sneaked in by undercover Pagan artists. More like just jokes from naughty sculptors.

                  The Christians who visited/ lived in those places simply did not have enough respect for the Goddess- neither the sophisticated techniques and knowledge of the esoteric that can be found in some of the Eastern tantric traditions. Many of those creations that came out of Indian tantra, various scriptures as well as many temples, were also destroyed and burnt by invading Muslims.

                  The Christians also destroyed the historical worship of the vulva and the Goddess that had existed both in this country and Europe, with vicious persecution.

                • swamishanti says:

                  Apparently, some believe that they were carved secretly by carpenters who were not paid and went unnoticed by the visitors of the church for centuries: https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/carpenters-rude-carving-in-church-is-exposed-hundreds-of-years-later/

                  If they were went unnoticed for centuries, it seems a shame because they were likely designed to irritate the visitors of the Church , or those of the Church who had not paid them properly.

                  Reminds me of one of my last days at school when I left a picture with a bong which I was into at the time, and some writing , I can’t remember what, but I hid it behind a framed picture on the wall, in the lobby, for someone to discover in the future.

                • frank says:

                  Clearly many did not go unnoticed as they were on the church towers above the doors. Maybe done by artists with an axe to grind, a political point to make, a joke to be had etc. But how to know for sure?

                  You say “Christians also destroyed the historical worship of the vulva and the Goddess that had existed both in this country and Europe, with vicious persecution.”

                  Sounds cool in a kind of hippy-dippy “things were groovy and matriarchal and everyone was high on magic mushrooms, watching the sunset and getting into vulvas, man, until the patriarchal, fascist, alcohol-drinking powertrippers turned up and started on a really bad trip, man” kind of way.

                  But where is the evidence?

                • swamishanti says:

                  It’s true that we don’t know the exact motive of the carpenters who left the hidden Sheela na gig sculptures. If it was in protest against their employers who commissioned the building of the churches they were working on, either because of not being paid properly or even a secret protest from undercover goddess worshippers, or just a cheeky joke from carpenters, either way they would not be able to risk presenting the statues in a position where they would be easily discovered – in those days being caught for that kind of thing, would get you hung, drawn and quartered, or spreadeagled in public.

                  One thing for sure is, that those hidden sculptures found on several English and European churches are certainly are not the same as the tantric sexual carvings and sculptures, which can be found – positioned in very obvious places , such as full life size busts and depictions of sexual acts, not just between couples, but also , threesomes, and also images amd sculptures of group sex, at least one in the presence of a throned and haloed guru – these are carved in the temples of Khajuraho, Konark , Puri and also other Temples in India and Nepal, temples in which Hindus would regularly come and worship , and still do- despite periods when the Muslims destroyed a lot of the Temples and forced people to stop worshipping there.

                  Until about 8000 BCE, most archeologists believe that our ancestors organized themselves into hunter-gatherer type communes. Of course, there may have been older civilisations on the Earth that have completely dissapeared for various reasons as well.

                  The female life-giving principle was considered divine and a great mystery. Some Goddess statues still survive from that era. Goddess statues have been found and dated from circa 30,000 BCE to 1987 CE.

                  The interpretation that the old European culture stressed the female as divine is largely based on the number of carvings of a female shape found from this era. Some historians point to the relative lack of equivalent male statues as evidence of a Goddess culture.

                  This “old European” culture lasted for tens of thousands of years in what is now Europe. They generally lived in peace; there is a notable lack of defensive fortifications around their hamlets. As evidenced by their funeral customs, males and females appear to have had equal status. Many historians and archaeologists believe that:

                  :society was matrilineal; children took their mothers’ names.
                  :Life was based on lunar (not solar) calendar.
                  :Time was experienced as a repetitive cycle, not linearly as we think of it.

                  Many academics believe that the suppression of Goddess worship in Western Europe occurred a few thousand years BCE, when the Indo-Europeans invaded Europe from the East. They brought with them some of the ‘refinements’ of modern civilization: the horse, war, belief in male Gods, exploitation of nature, knowledge of the male role in procreation, etc. Goddess worship was gradually combined with worship of male Gods to produce a variety of Pagan polytheistic religions among the Greeks, Romans, Celts, etc.

                  As later religions Judaism, Christianity and eventually Islam, evolved, the Pagan religions were suppressed and the female principle was gradually driven out of religion. Women were considered inferior to men. The God, King, Priest and Father replaced the Goddess, Queen, Priestess and Mother. The role of women became restricted.

                  A feminine presence was added to Christianity as it became institutionalised by the Roman Catholic Church, as various mythologies were added such as the Virgin Mary who was named ‘Theotokos’ (Mother of God). But her role was heavily restricted and included none of the fertility component present in Pagan religions.

                  As we know, after the Roman Catholic Pope ordered the Inquisitions during the late Middle Ages millions of European women (and a smaller proportion of males) who worshipped the Goddess were branded as heretics and pagans and accused of witchcraft, who were exterminated by Christians by torturing, burning and hanging over a period of three centuries.

                  As remembered in the song ‘The Burning Times’: https://youtu.be/yQKuSU0f8B4

                  The Inquisition relentlessly sought to destroy anyone who spoke or even thought differently to the Catholic Church.

                  The Catholic ecclesiastical authorities condemned every faith outside of Christianity as demonic.

                  When the early white European settlers arrived in the Americas, several hundred years ago, the Roman Catholic missionaries set about preaching and attempting to convert the Native Americans, who watched as their nomadic ways of life, the ways that they had interacted in harmony with their ‘Mother Earth’, were destroyed by the white newcomers.

                  Towards the end of the 1800s, the new United States government tried to force Native Americans to become more like European Americans through assimilation.

                  The Native Americans were forced off of their land, the reservations they had been given became smaller, and their children were taken away and forced to go to Roman Catholic boarding schools set up by the state.

                  The separation was designed to help it to become easier to make the children forget their language and culture. Even though the schools were run by the state, the children were taught Christian beliefs.

                  Today, respect for the Virgin Mary as a sexually ‘pure’, submissive mother is widespread, particularly in Roman Catholicism.

                  In many older cultures, as well as worshipping the male energy of the Sun, people believed in the power and the feminine energy of the Moon, and tapped into it by calling upon lunar deities, the goddesses associated with the Moon.

                  Personifying the yoni,(vulva), the Goddess Kali bore the title of ‘Cunti’ or ‘Kunda’, root of the ubiquitous Indo-European word ‘cunt’ and all its relatives: cunnus, cunte, cunning, cunctipotent, ken, kin, country.

                  The Chinese Great Mother Kwan-yin (“Yoni of yonis”) often appeared as a fish-goddess.

                  As the swallower of Shiva’s penis, Kali became Minaksi the “fish-eyed” one, just as in Egypt, Isis the swallower of Osiris’s penis became Abtu, the Great Fish of the Abyss.
                  Fish and womb were synonymous in Greek.

                  ‘Cunt’

                  The word has not always been used as an insult to the female gender.
                   
                  In ancient writings the word for cunt was synonymous with woman though not in the insulting modern sense. Hundreds of years after the Egyptians used the word to express the concept of woman the Anglo-Saxons used the term as a basic word for female genitalia.

                  Derivative of the Oriental Great Goddess as ‘Cunti’, or ‘Kunda’, the Yoni of the Uni-verse.
                  From the same root came county, kin and kind (Old English ‘cyn’, Gothic ‘kuni’). Related forms were Latin ‘cunnus’, Middle English ‘cunte’, Old Norse and Frisian ‘kunta’, Basque ‘cuna’.

                  Other cognates are ‘cunabula’, a cradle or earliest abode; ‘cunina’,
                  a Roman Goddess who protected children in the cradle;
                  ‘cunctipotent’, all-powerful (i.e., having cunt-magic); ‘cunicle’, a
                  hole or passage; ‘cuniculate’, penetrated by a passage; ‘cundy’, a
                  coverted culvert; also cunning, kenning, and ken: knowledge, learning,
                  insight, remembrance, wisdom.

                  ‘Kin’ meant not only matrilineal blood relations, but also a cleft or
                  crevice, the Goddess’s genital opening. A Saharan tribe called ‘Kuntahs’
                  traced their descent from this holy place.

                  Indian ‘kundas’ were their mothers’ natural children, begotten out of wedlock as gifts of the Goddess Kunda.

                  Agroná was the British goddess of battle and slaughter. The Welsh god Aeron had derived his name from her.

                  Alaisiagae was the minor British goddess, who was identified in homesteads in Northumberland in a shrine to Mars.

                  Andrasta (Andraste) was the Romano-Celtic goddess of war. Her name means the “Invincible One”. Andrasta was a patron goddess of the Iceni tribe. It was said that Boudicca, the British warrior queen prayed to Andrasta, before going into battle against her Roman foes. It is believed that the goddess received human sacrifices.

                  She was also probably linked with the more peaceful Gallic goddess named Andarta.

                  Arnemetia was a Romano-Celtic water goddess.

                  Brigantia was the tribal goddess of the Brigantes, the British Celts living in the large region named after her, in northern England. The Romans identified Brigantia with Minverva (Athena).

                  Brigantia was a popular goddess, where she was worshipped and called Brigindo in Gaul (France), and Brigit in Ireland. Brigantia was the goddess of war, healing and water. Brigantia was also goddess of fertility and prosperity.

                  Cocidius was a Celtic-British goddess of hunting.

                  A tutelary goddess of the river and spring. The river was named after Coventina and was also worshipped by the Romans.

                  Her sacred spring was at Brocolitia (Carrawburgh), a Roman fort on the Hadrian’s wall. Here, votive offerings were made to the goddess at her springs. Usually money, pins and pearls were thrown into the well.

                  Coventina was also popular in Aquae Sulis, a town which now called Bath. She was worshipped in Bath along with two other British goddesses: Sulis and Nemetona, Goddess of healing springs. Sulis is actually a Latin name for the British goddess. The Romans identified her as the Gaulish Minerva, where she was known as Sulis Minerva.

                  Her city was named after her as Aquae Sulis, which is modern Bath. Because of the hot spring, the Romans had built a Roman bath in this town. She was one of several goddesses worshipped at Bath. The other two goddesses were Coventina and Nemetona.

                  Much of history from older cultures has been passed down as part of an oral tradition of stories, songs and chants sung around the fireside. Not only Goddess chants are sung around the fire in the West, but in India the Vedas were sung as hymns for a long time before they were ever written down, and ‘Gita’ itself means song. The various gita’s, Bhagavad Gita, Siva-Gita, Devi-Gita, Guru-Gita, Ashtravaktra-Gita etc, are still chanted today.

                • frank says:

                  SS,
                  Some interesting stuff there, but to be perfectly honest, the 70s folk rock/ancient goddess worship myth/theory doesn`t do it for me.

                  I don`t see how finding statues of goddesses proves anything. Male-dominated societies have worshipped female images all along. Still do.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Yes, Frank, I have to chuckle thinking about the temple of Bes story. It was completely nuts, Ibiza style. The guy who built the place is quite a legendery figure in these parts. He put his stone mason skills, heart and soul into the job. When the temple was demolished he had a heart attack.

                • frank says:

                  Omg, that was unfortunate.
                  Bez is still going, tho`.

              • Lokesh says:

                Goddess worship continues in Ibiza today, although limited to a narrow neck of the woods.

                There are two female deities left over from the Phonecians that people know about. Tanit and Bes, from which came the island’s name. Tanit was a party girl and Bes was more a fertility goddess.

                A friend decided to build a Bes Temple a few years back. He bought a piece of land and employed a talented stone mason to build a temple to Bes using hundreds of tons of rock. The idea was that Tanit was a hedonistic bitch and the island needed the good female vibrations that Bes would provide…out, demons out, kind of scenario. It took a year, lots of money and hard graft to build the rock temple, which looked like a nuclear bunker with metre-thick walls upon completion.

                An inauguration party was organized, before the temple was covered over by earth to make it more ‘underground’, the project being completely illegal. The cops showed up in force, ordered the temple knocked down and levied a fine of 500,000e. That was the end of that.

                • frank says:

                  Loke,
                  I think your story may be a good example of how people adopt versions of history that chime with their own mythical and narrative needs or biases.

                  I suspect that the idea of building a temple to balance out a party girl/hedonistic bitch goddess with a more grounded fertility goddess had more to do with with the goings-on in late 20th/early 21st century Ibiza than anything the Phoenicians were up to!

              • Lokesh says:

                Worship of Bes spread as far north as the area of Syria, east to Poona One, and as far west as the Balearic Islands (Ibiza) in Spain, and later into the Roman and Achaemenid Empires. Apart from her new temple being demolished in Ibiza in 2018, she has not been heard of since.

                See below, photo of a typical Bes worshipper.

  13. While reading the story of the Theranos Fraud Trial’* it also became clear Neo-Sannyas too was a start-up. It hooked people emotionally and romantically to the visionary and the meditation products.

    The bold line in the fraud trial story is, “Elizabeth Holmes had vowed to revolutionize diagnostics with self-service machines that could run an array of tests on just drops of blood, a vision that drew high-profile backers and made her a billionaire.”

    We can put worldwide known names of belief in the enlightenment sector; they too vowed to revolutionize spiritual industry.

    One other interesting paragraph is worth mentioning:
    One of the start-up world’s most repeated cliches is “fake it till you make it”, where ambitious entrepreneurs with an idea that almost works convince people to invest massive sums of money in the hope that one day it will.

    It is exceedingly rare for entrepreneurs of failed Silicon Valley companies – of which there are many – to face fraud prosecution over unrealized promises and unreturned investments.

    Because master himself was heard mentioning scientific and science in connection with spirituality, it does not diminish the good qualities to look at reasons for the crash.

    *See:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/03/elizabeth-holmes-trial-jury-finds-theranos-founder-guilty-on-four-counts

    https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-inventor-out-for-blood-in-silicon-valley

    • frank says:

      Certainly, as Swami Bhorat and Zorba the Buddha Modi along with Sri Gandhoo, Bhagavan Badmash and Sri Shantam23 have made clear: along with stem cell genetics, plastic surgery, algebra, air travel, space travel, public toilets, institutionalised racism and knob gags, the wise sages, egoless egoists and pantless pandits of ancient Bhorat have, many yugas before Silicon Valley, also invented start-ups and ponzi schemes!

      Ashram scene of mighty Bhorat is original ponzi scheme! With seekers and suckers investing millions and ending up with unrealized promises and unreturned investments!

      Certainly Shantambhai is upholder of this proud tradition!
      And none of these magnificent religious industries had ever faced prosecution until the arrival of baboons with their absurd moralities and Metoo movements which stem from perverted practice letting women and homosexuals out of the house after dark!

      Start-ups were also well-known in ancient Bhorat! For example, driverless vehicles were already in operation when Krishna and Arjuna were steering chariot into battle without ego!
      Also when Shiva and Parvati created world by playing dice, it was invention of first bookies!

      Yugas before William Shatner and Elon Musk began operating tours to visit other planets and see the stars, ancient vedic scientists of Bhorat had already discovered that by devotionally banging head hard on marble one could both end up on Uranus and see the stars in front of eyes!

      And for aeons before Silicon Valley, the fraudless fraudsters of mighty Bhorat were “faking it till they made it” as millions of ticketless travellers on train from here to here can testify!

      Yahoo!
      Hari Om!

  14. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, the whistleblower, says, “People invest massive sums of money in the hope that one day it will.” I suppose that is true.

    What massive sums of money did you invest, Shantam? It is a no-brainer. None.

    • No surprise what you have written, Lokesh.
      Without boasting, let me say, I have invested more life in Neo-Sannyas start-up than you.
      You left the firm after getting the return on your investment.

      One of the psychological facts of investing money or emotions in a cult is even when people lose, they blame themselves. They see their self-esteem as ego, the blunders of the cult as device.

      And then come small-time investors who preach, look at the sunny side of the thing.

  15. Lokesh says:

    I really cannot say I had some sort of investment in sannyas. Just not my kind of language. I had lots of fun, adventures, mysteries and a whole lot of positive things. But an investment. Never.

    • Lokesh, that seven years you have spend in Pune, when firm owner was himself delivering products and taking cash is a sort of investment.

      Without the gain of fun, adventures, mysteries and a whole lot of positive things you would not have remained in Pune and used your productive years singing, “Master of the masters, I love you….”

      This also one knows from self-reflecting notes, when there was a dire need, the successful business owner did not even mention Lokesh was was regular customer.

      I don´t think he even missed your presence, so many have already had come to taste magic Elixir of love and meditation and a new community where sex was essential, procreation was not required.

      When a scientist spends days months and years in a lab, that is his investment.
      Guru types attract more than money, the Emotional investment.
      People, including me, invested heavy, believing Cosmos is speaking through Mr. O.

      Most of the time, it was his mind.

      • satyadeva says:

        Didn’t you ever hear Osho saying it was “a risk” to be with him, Shantam?

        Which surely included that you might not get what you want?

        But what exactly did you want, I wonder? The question of how truly authentic was your search is another matter but I suggest you actually had quite a good time in his community while now you don’t want to acknowledge those benefits, having apparently practically calcified into an ungrateful so’n'so (itself arguable evidence that at deeper levels you didn’t really get very much from all those years).

        • SD, I must say, your critique is below the average.

          The wise one knows, those who have given much will be asked much.

          Nobody has written and spoken about the need of His creation, the commune more than me, because it is not me who makes holes in the plate where one eats.

          Thankfulness and gratitude does not mean one stops looking at the negative side of human nature.

          When one joins army, it is understood to take risk of life, but it does not mean to die in the barracks in the hands of queen´s son.

          And more than that, I am curious those who have got that much, what they have given back to the next generation of seekers?

          Have not thankless, name-changed westerners proven good feather friends?

          One thing I have noticed in all these years, your idea of search is very much based on Barry Long’s or other Advaita teachers’ influence.

          To visit Bhagwan was just a coincidence, fashion of that era.

          • satyadeva says:

            “Thankfulness and gratitude does not mean one stops looking at the negative side of human nature.”

            But where is this “thankfulness and gratitude” from you, Shantam? You express none of it here, you just complain and accuse, like a stuck record. With, btw, zero sense of personal responsibility.
            Unedifying, to say the least.

            Time to start “looking at the negative side” of yourself as well, as a priority – too inconvenient for you?

            You say, “Have not thankless, name-changed westerners proven good feather friends?” More ingratitude from you! Face it, you’d never have joined Osho’s movement without the attraction of thousands of young, sexually liberated (compared to Indians) western women, would you? Your words apply to you too! Can you see this?

            Perhaps you’re afraid that if you bother to even think of the good things you experienced that will somehow undermine your anger, your complaints, even in your own mind. Because you have a ‘position’ to uphold, to nourish, to prove to others and to yourself that you’ve been hard done by, exploited, tricked, cast aside. That’s your story and to hell with anything or anyone that suggests otherwise.

            And you spent years around Osho and still can not see what you’re doing here?

            “And more than that, I am curious those who have got that much, what they have given back to the next generation of seekers?”

            Ask this of yourself, Shantam, please. Then tell us your answer. Or don’t you think you’ve “got that much” (apart from a list of resentful complaints)?

            (Finally, fyi, Advaita’s never been my cup of chai, and BL was definitely not of that lineage, he was a master in his own right, an original.

            And as for “To visit Bhagwan was just a coincidence, fashion of that era” you couldn’t be more wrong. He indirectly probably saved my life – enough said, I think.

            I suggest you make an effort to restrict yourself to things you might perhaps actually know something about).

            • swamishanti says:

              And Barry Long…has been called a ‘tantric master’ by some.

              A typical relaxed Aussie with four girlfriends on the go at the same time, I think I remember hearing.

              He only used to get a little agitated when he noticed his beers were missing.

              • swamishanti says:

                TRUE TANTRA

                “In Northern India when I was there, in many places there were concrete casts of what they call the lingam and the yoni. You’d see a concrete penis sticking out of a concrete yoni, the female part. We in the west are so superficial we wouldn’t have a clue what that means. The psychiatrists wouldn’t know. They’d put all sorts of interpretations on it. I think Freud said that sex is behind everything. That’s true; sex is behind everything – but love is behind sex. The conversion of sex into love, the conversion of the raw God into the God of love, that’s what our job is. Or what’s the spiritual life about if it’s not about converting sex into love? Sex is all there is – until it turns to love.

                The power between man and woman was already recognised in one of the oldest of true religions and was represented in India by the tantric way; the power of the lingam to bring about power in the yoni was worshipped. There is nothing like man worshipping at the entrance to woman, for her private part represents the gate that he must go through. If he is perceptive enough, and not sexual, he will see in that part his heart’s desire. Although of course it is not in the part at all; but that part he loves to gaze upon, and that he loves to enter, symbolises the place that is hidden away, his way back home, to freedom, to the womb of life….

                In the West, there doesn’t seem to be any idea of this tremendous, wonderful desire in man”.

                (Edited from a talk by Barry Long in Sydney, Australia, Sunday 15 December 1996: ‘True Tantra’

                Read more: http://www.barrylong.org/statements/true_tantra.shtml

                • swamishanti says:

                  Actually, Barry Long isn’t right when he says:

                  “There is nothing like man worshipping at the entrance to woman, for her private part represents the gate that he must go through….”

                  In fact, yoni worship (worshipping of the vulva) has been an integral, very important part of tantra historically on the Indian subcontinent and takes several forms.

                  Here is an image of a yoni that is regularly worshipped in Nepal:

                • satyadeva says:

                  I think you’ve misunderstood what BL has said, Shanti. “There is nothing like man worshipping at the entrance to woman…” suggests it’s a very special, very significant practice, at that point nothing to do with geographical location, although he goes on to cite the examples of sculptures in temples of northern India (saying the West has nothing comparable).

                • Klaus says:

                  I read this on ‘Bhag’ meaning vagina.

                  Thus the guru is the vagina of god: you enter into god through the guru.

                  Once this happens, transcendence is there. Sex is then also transcended.

                  https://www.osho.com/osho-online-library/osho-talks/krishna-sexuality-ancient-64ab571c-251?p=26dcf1613a0af88658294611b579f71e

                  As Shanti writes (from Barry Long): sex turns into love which is behind sex.

                • frank says:

                  Re Sheela Na gig, concrete penises and vulvas of North India.

                  It is very hard to put ourselves inside the minds of people from the past.
                  The Khajuraho sculptures are not so very far from the same era as the Sheela sculptures.
                  We have very little, if any, solid info as to what the originators intended to express.

                  At a slight tangent, I remember reading a story told by the adventurer Sir Richard Burton, the guy who disguised himself as a Muslim and got into Mecca and Medina in the mid-19th century. He described how somewhere in the Arab world, he witnessed a noblewoman, a Mohammedan, fall off her horse, her dress came up above her waist revealing all, but to preserve her dignity, she immediately moved to put her veil back over her face.

                  The idea of knowing exactly what ancient people were about inside themselves maybe somewhat presumptuous and may very well say more about the desires and aims of those giving the interpretations in the present moment.

              • satyadeva says:

                Good one, Shanti!

                Well, he wasn’t a hypocrite about the four women who, btw, he was with for a few months when in his late 60s, I think. All was in the open, not hidden.

                His teachings on sex, in live talks and recordings, eg in his ‘Making Love’ cd, were radical, tantric one might say, a world away from casual promiscuity, refreshingly frank and practical.

                Seems to me sceptics reveal more about themselves and what passes as ‘normal’ than about BL. “Tantric master? Surely not, don’t make me laugh! He’s a randy old fucker, obviously. Can’t know more than me anyway” (etc.)

                • swamishanti says:

                  I wasn’t being sceptical about Barry Long myself, if that’s what you hinted at.

                  I had read elsewhere some years ago about him being described as a ‘tantric master’ and read about the four girlfriends, on SN, I think, from one of your comments.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Ok, Shanti.

                  It’s just that I’ve known a number of people who, when mentioning BL’s sex teachings, put on a ‘knowing’ look while passing a sceptical comment or two hinting at how they’re far too worldly and wise to accept he could be genuine.

        • Lokesh says:

          Shantam, I’m not exactly sure why you continually grind your axe here on SN. It is a bit repetitive, to say the least, with very little in the way of sparks, just a lot of complaining, cynicism, bitterness and so forth.

          You are a bit of a wet blanket.

          • Klaus says:

            I wonder what the positive outcome of – almost continous critical – negativity could be?

            Peace of mind? No.
            Spiritual progress? No.
            Understanding of oneself and others? No.
            Founding a new ashram? Transforming an existing one? Maybe; but imo this also needs some positivity.

            “Examining the unwholesome states is all part of the self-examination that is an essential aspect of the contemplative life. Self-examination is taking stock of one’s neuroses so that one may attempt to do something about them. However, before we can do something about those unwholesome qualities of our psyche, we must first be able to identify the unwholesome states.

            The Unwholesome States:
            https://greatwesternvehicle.org/unwholesome.htm

            Quite an extensive research by Jhanananda (Jeffrey S. Brooks) on which unwholesome states can occur in the mind from a Buddhist – Hindu Yoga – Christian and psychological view.

            Check.

            With cheers.

      • satchit says:

        Shantam, you talk like a businessman.

        Investment? Certainly you are frustrated because there is no gain.

        Better you drop your business-mind!

        • Satchit, Lokesh and other brothers and a sister,

          Before I go away from sannyasnews again, one article will be on the way, my last for 2022.

          You enjoy your only space of written communication, I get more meaning by writing at facebook.
          When one can address the young generation who is smart to understand metaphors, why to waste time and other people´s space and mental comfort zone.

          I have always lived as a minority, here too in the club of six, seven regulars. Thanks, Gracious God.

          • satchit says:

            You miss some understanding, Shantam.

            Life is not a comfort zone at all.
            Anytime something unpredictable can
            happen.

            But you are still young, so you can grow in understanding.

            Follow your energy!

            • frank says:

              Again, the baboons who have withdrawn investment from company when shares were high, fail to understand heroism of those who have lost everything in karmic credit crunch!

              Certainly, heroic life of one who lives life on Facebook cannot be comprehended by those who live in comfort zone!

              Shantambhai has long ago renounced comfort zone of cowardly baboons! Certainly, to sit on stained chair, taking daily psych meds, eating leftover Stollen at reduced price from the Lidl, thumbing through dog-eared copy of Cheiro`s Book of numbers with many mysteriously stuck-together pages whilst adding more bricks to Facebook wall is certainly on a par with surfing 90 foot waves in shark-infested waters whilst striking advanced upside-down yoga poses on DMT whilst on the run from Interpol!

              I wonder if any of the western baboons have considered the commitment involved to wander into deserted churches and nod off in pews whilst considering numerological significance of next dole check?

              Shantambhai has stood steadfast against the crowd like wonderful combination Colonel Custer and Colonel Sanders against the unconscious baboons at SN who cannot understand great metaphors mixed in three-wheeler concrete mixer of mighty Bhorat! (see picture)

              But then, when has a Kabir, a Tagore, a Tulsidas, a Mirabhai, a Shantambhai ever been understood by the ignorant masses?

              Shantambhai should walk away like a heavily sedated elephant with nose in the air, utterly untouched by noise of barking dogs who do not understand how to invest in great religious start-ups and corporations in order to receive lifetime dividends of misery, regret, complaint and blame!

              Certainly, he has understood the moaning of life!

              Walk away now, Bhai! SN is no place for a good man whose life has been ruined by others! Your throne at Facebook awaits you!

              Yahoo!

  16. Lokesh says:

    Shantam declares, “Before I go away from sannyasnews again, one article will be on the way, my last for 2022.”

    Looks like 2022 is getting off to a good start.

  17. kavita says:

    “Shantam I. Singh says:
    4 January, 2022 at 10:32 pm
    Satchit, Lokesh and other brothers and a sister,

    Before I go away from sannyasnews again, one article will be on the way, my last for 2022.

    You enjoy your only space of written communication, I get more meaning by writing at facebook.
    When one can address the young generation who is smart to understand metaphors, why to waste time and other people´s space and mental comfort zone.

    I have always lived as a minority, here too in the club of six, seven regulars. Thanks, Gracious God.”

    Dear brother, let me assure you I have also been a one woman army, since the day I entered in Osho’s Pune Commune; probably each one here at SN is, otherwise we wouldn’t be here.

    Sorry if I am wrong about saying this, when I met you for the first time, you were part of the Official Indian management team & also in a White Robe (Sannyas Office), later after the core Indian management team’s departure you took on a Black Robe (Astrology) until the day DR asked you to clean the commune toilets. That’s probably what really transformed you into a one man army*, if I may say so.

    Of course, one is one’s own judge, so one knows what’s best for oneself.

    I am not sure if you will respond here on SN to this post, or ever if I call you. Anyway, wish you the best always.

    * Here “one man army” is used metaphorically.

  18. kavita says:

    swamishanti says:5 January, 2022 at 6:56 pm
    frank says:5 January, 2022 at 8:44 pm 

    Now after reading these above interesting posts, I am wondering if enlightenment could be accepting futility of handling pronatalistic responsibilities for both men & women!

  19. samarpan says:

    RE: Shantam’ 5 Euros

    Anand Yogi told me that evil British colonizers picked the name ‘Osho’ and our master, being a choiceless-choice-go-with-the-flow kind of guy accepted the name ‘Osho’, explaining that His new name is derived from William James’d word ‘oceanic’, which means dissolving into the ocean. ‘Oceanic; describes the experience, He says, but what about the experiencer? For that we use the word ‘Osho.’

    Later, He came to find out that ‘Osho’ has also been used historically in the Far East, meaning “The Blessed One’, on Whom the Sky Showers Flowers.”

    Do you have PayPal, Shantam?

    • frank says:

      Perfectly correct, Samarpan.
      Investing in Shantam`s religious start-up business that can grow into global conglomerate is only hope for humanity!

      Certainly, he has not only metaphors worthy of mystic poets Kabab and Al Jabbar but also business sense worthy of or better than Elon Musk!

      Remember, even Elon Musk`s enterpreneurship was not capable of convincing German govt. to pay for his XXXX habit! But Shantambhai managed it!

      Elon`s latest visionary plan is to blast supergroup of “Bhagwan Sannyasins”(BS) Arun, Shantam and Sheela (ASS) into space to form commune on Mars!

      But first, creation of Brown Nose Brotherhood must be completed! Shantam has been working round the clock with Sheela and Arun all sniffing round the beyond and the behind of each other and Zorba the Buddha Modi!

      Premliminary talks with Elon Musk went very well with Musk proclaiming to Shantam on the phone only yesterday:
      “With dreams like yours you are destined to land somewhere big, like on Uranus.”

      Yahoo!

  20. kavita says:

    Brown Nose Brotherhood!!!
    Your Bestest one till Now, Frankie.

    • frank says:

      Perfectly correct, Kavita!

      Certainly, it has been proven by yogic science that for the purposes of spiritual advancement it is absolutely necessary for seeker to have detailed understanding of position of nose chakra in relation to base chakra of senior disciples!

      Buddham Gluteam Gachami!
      I go to the gluteals of the awakened one!

      Yahoo!
      Bum Shankar!

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