Lokesh presents his thoughts on the pros and cons of Sannyas News relocating to Facebook.

There has been some talk of creating a Sannyas News Facebook page. Here are some of the pros and cons. Perhaps some of the regulars will add their comments to this and help create a clearer picture.

SN, as it exists now, is a well functioning blog site. It is easy to navigate and is in many ways better than Facebook. I like it how it is, but am not opposed to change. The problem with SN right now is that there are simply not enough people interested in the site, very little in the way of new bloggers, and a general lack of new stimulating articles. Could be a sign of the Osho times. There is still plenty that can be discussed but nobody is really interested in creating articles, probably because they see it as a waste of time, because only a handful of people are actually reading the articles. This would, of course, change if hundreds of people were participating.

One thing I have learned from the publication of our book is that very few sannyasins have heard of SN. Facebook would definitely attract more comments, but it is hard to predict what kind of comments. More is not necessarily better. The downside is that Facebook would not provide such a comprehensive access to previous articles etc. Also some of the regulars are not keen on Facebook, which is understandable.

I’ve checked out many sannyasin/Osho Facebook pages. In general, they are all pretty boring: Osho quotes, Osho pictures, the same old, same old. Yesterday I read an Osho quote on a Facebook page about transcending sex by the age of 46 because one will realize what a stupid game it is etc. Taking into account the current social media revelations about Osho’s secret sex life, which shows he had in no way transcended sex by the age of 46, makes me wonder how come people are posting quotes about transcending sex from a man who clearly had not. It strikes me as idealistic, mixed-up bullshit. Meanwhile, we have Bodhisattva Arun rubbing hysterical women’s foreheads in Nepal to help them see the light. So much nonsense being perpetrated in Osho’s name. Nothing new there.

The Facebook pages that are attracting a lot of sannyasins’ attention right now are the ones detailing the under-age sex accounts from sannyasin women, which took place in Pune One and The Ranch and, to a lesser extent, in Poona Two. Some of these revelatory posts receive hundreds of comments, mostly sympathetic. Personally, I don’t think SN needs to join the scandal. Sannyas has a bad enough name already. Why add anything more that will make sannyasins look even worse in the public eye?

I was hopeful that with the book’s publication it might help generate more interest in SN. This may in fact happen but alas, very slowly. There are over 2,500,000 books published annually. To make inroads into the mainstream publishing market one needs mainstream publisher clout, which we do not have. Once in a while an independent book breaks through into the mainstream, but very rarely. The SN book is targeting a small niche market and that is about the extent of it. It will not become a best-seller.

On that note, I have only seen one book review published by an SN regular. It costs nothing to write a positive review if you have purchased the book. You can really help promote the book and help our site garner more attention by writing a positive review, so what are you waiting on? It is our most potent tool. Please use it. Five stars are a real plus, but honesty comes first. Thanks.

On a personal level ,In regards creating an SN Facebook page, I have mixed feelings about it. It is a pity SN is not generating more interest than it does, but surely, as I’ve said already, it is a sign of the times. One way to generate more interest in SN is via the crooked path of sensationalism. I don’t think SN needs to stoop to that level. We just need more creative input in the form of intelligent articles and networking. On one hand Osho is a bigger name than ever, on the other his name is fading with the passage of time. I could say more. Now it is once again up to the regulars to keep the ball rolling, if it is indeed destined to roll.

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  1. satchit says:

    SN is like an old tree with its special habitat.

    To move and change the habitat will not be good for the tree.
    Maybe the tree even will not survive.

    New birds coming is fine for the tree.
    If not, this is fine too.

  2. kavita says:

    Even though I learned to use a computer/PC during my pre-sannyas years while working in the hotel industry, internet was first introduced to me in the early 2000s by Vani, my Friend who lived in the US of A then, who wanted me to connect with her through emails (from an internet cafe: we went to this cafe & I had my first yahoo account! Which I never accessed!

    In 2007, when I gave up my farm living and came back to city living in Poona, I bought a PC, Big Prem introduced me to Facebook & that aided me to learn to navigate the internet & I kinda became a pro @ FB! During this time, one day while conversing with Shantam, he introduced me to Sannyasnews website.

    I remembered, after reading the old articles on SN at that time, that while being at Swami Rajneesh’s place in Poona in early 2008, SR would read aloud some of his posts from SN.

    In 2012, I deactivated my FB account for time-energy management reasons.

    Now I don’t really know if I would like to be a FB’er, frankly I would prefer this current set-up more than FB for pretty much the same reasons Lokesh has already mentioned. Yes, would open a fresh FB account if need be!

  3. Sannyasnews page can co-exist with the mother roots, i e. This is with every other news media also.

    Facebook is like a high street, footfalls come on their own. So a small unknown site like sannyasnews must use this opportunity.

  4. frank says:

    I like the tree analogy. Also, SN reminds me of a really old pair of shoes with several holes and with the soles superglued to keep them on. You keep on expecting them to disintegrate but as it is, they just refuse to die and they are extremely well-fitting and still very walkable.

    I suppose it might be possible to have a Facebook page as well as the site, but I`m not sure how that would work. Seeing as how most potential customers, as Lokesh says, haven`t even heard of SN, maybe put some old articles on the Fb page in order to whip up some response?

    Trouble is, Fb is so much its own world that it tends to suck all into its own algorithm.

  5. On experimental basis let us start sannyasnews page at facebook with new article submitted by me on Enlightenment thing, spiritual version of G-spot.

    Best way to check the water is to put the feet inside.

    • frank says:

      Anand Yogi very much agrees:

      “Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
      Certainly, best way to advance is to put foot inside mouth!
      Certainly, your insight that enlightenment thing is spiritual version of G-spot must be shared with the greatest amount of people on the Facebook in order bring regime change to usher in 1000 yuga era of superconsciousness!

      Do not forget to also mention, as Swami Bhorat has made clear, that meditation is ultimate boob-job and enlightenment is like greatest penis-enlargement scam of all time!

      Disciples who sign up attempt to stretch, pull, bulk up and tenderise organ but all end up with severely damaged member that is in worse shape than when they started!

      And remember, Shanatambhai has not just talked the talk he has also walked the walk and mashed the meat!


  6. Klaus says:

    Step 1:
    If SN will go to FB.

    Step 2:
    Who will do some quality control on the Article to be posted?

    Step 3:
    Will this be done by a Committee?

    Step 4:
    I guess there must be some space for enlightentertainment?

    Cheers from here.

    • swamishanti says:

      Personally, I don’t think FB with all its tracking & monitoring etc. should be merged with SN. I am ok with the site as it is, as others have expressed. It is an old tree with a few birds crowing in the branches.
      You can also enjoy the winter when the branches are naked.

      Lokesh, I think you are a bit bored and could possibly try another hobby such as scuba diving. Or if you did create a fb page, it should be something else, not Sannyasnews.
      Have a happy Christmas.
      Here’s an old issue of SN for you to enjoy until I get back :

      • Sannyasnews can add more page three photos.

        Swamishanti is the right person to offer daily dose of Sex & Sannyas combination, it will also be a true homage to master who used explosives in otherwise stale Jaina art of Spiritual cooking.

        • frank says:

          Certainly, page three photos of disciples with the perky breasts must be staple diet of Sannyas-ass News Jaina stovetop hotpot fleshpot Assbook page!

          Mixing idea of skyclad Jaina Tirthankaras with skyclad busty spiritual page 3 totty to create Tittythankaras was certainly masterstroke USB of CEO of market-leader in strip-chakra searches, and will certainly help attract Facebook fiddlers, neo-nonces, pedosattvas, jailbait jnanis, meditative molesters and groping gurus to new Sanyas-ass News page giving many clicks!


        • swamishanti says:

          SP, Sri Krishna watches the gopi girls emerge after hiding their clothes whilst they were bathing in the river.
          5,500 years ago.
          Now I know why Indian women keep their saris on nowadays when they go in the sea or wash in the river.

      • Lokesh says:

        Shanti, I find SN fine as it is also. I wrote the article because there was a need for it, not because I feel bored or in need of a hobby. I am fortunate in the sense that boredom is something I rarely suffer from. Perhaps you would be so kind as to share how you managed to conclude that I feel bored. I already have a scuba diving licence but rarely use it because I have a problem with decompressing my ears, unlike my son who free dives to a depth of 40 metres on a single breath, which is really quite remarkable if you think about it.

        Right now I am off into the woods for a magic ceremony. Yahoo!

        • swamishanti says:

          I don’t think that many sannyasins haven’t heard of SN, it is just that they are not really interested in contributing.

          Most of them will feel out of sync with some of the views expressed on SN, after all a lot of them are into Osho from the Ranch days, as well as Osho from the Pune Two days – not just the earlier days.

          These Osho videos on YouTube, mainly from the talks given during the last six years of his life, are getting thousands of upvotes and are very popular.

          Personally, I also find inspiration from many of the later talks, just as much as the earlier ones.

          Thus the doubts expressed by a tiny minority, here on SN, that he may have gone downhill after the move to the new commune in the US, simply doesn’t resonate with the vast majority of Osho fans and sannyasins today, who have trust, or even those who indentified as sannyasins in the past and are doing different things nowadays.

          Someone shared a quote with me the other day:

          “Gurdjieff lived a life which was very mysterious; it was not public. His school was a hidden school. What was happening there, people were simply guessing.

          And that’s what is going to happen in the new phase of my work. My commune will become hidden, underground. It will have a facade on the outside: the weavers and the carpenters and the potters…that will be the facade. People who will come as visitors, we will have a beautiful showroom for them; they can purchase things. They can see the creativity of the sannyasins: paintings, books, woodwork…They can be shown around – a beautiful lake, swimming pools, a five-star hotel for them – but they will not know what is really happening. That which will be happening will be almost all underground. It has to be underground, otherwise it cannot happen.

          I have a few secrets to impart to you, and I would not like to die before I have imparted them to you — because I don’t know anybody else now alive in the world who can do that work. I have secrets from Taoism, secrets from tantra, secrets from yoga, secrets from Sufis, secrets from Zen people. I have lived in almost all the traditions of the world; I have been a wanderer in many lives. I have gathered much honey from many flowers.

          And the time, sooner or later, will come when I will have to depart – and I will not be able to enter again in the body. This is going to be my last life. All the honey that I have gathered I would like to share with you, so that you can share it with others, so that it does not disappear from the earth.

          This is going to be a very secret work; hence, Ajit Saraswati, I cannot speak about it. I think I have already spoken too much! I should not have said even this. The work will be only for those who are utterly devoted.

          Right now, we have a big press office to make as many people as possible aware of the phenomenon that is happening here. But in the new commune the real work will simply disappear from the world’s eyes. The press office will function – it will function for other purposes. People will go on coming, because from the visitors we have to choose; we have to invite people who can be participants, who can dissolve in the commune. But the real work is going to be absolutely secret. It is going to be only between me and you.

          And there will not be much talk between me and you either. More and more I will become silent, because the real communion is through energy, not through words. As you will be getting ready to receive the energy in silence, I will become more and more silent. But I am keeping a great treasure for you. Be receptive….”

          (Osho: ‘The Dhammapada’ vol 2, 1979)

          Today a lot of people appreciate Osho’s unique message, after he had begun speaking again in 1984, just as much as his earlier talks before the period of silence.

          Sometimes I have been watching clips from Osho from Rajneeshpuram and have greatly appreciated his light and beauty as he expresses various spiritual truths. The transmission is still there.
          If he was inebriated a little in some of the clips, to me that just makes him that much more beautiful.

          He was able to speak with clarity and full awareness and you can see that when you look at the words on a page.

          Therefore, most seekers who trust Osho have no interest in writing or contributing here.

          Stories, revelations about Osho’s sex life are not really anything new. The man himself said that he was not celibate, or that he was right now but had not been in the past and would not be again once his back got better.(1985).

          Osho wanted his New Man, his enlightened rebel to be down-to-earth, ordinary people, who would be able to enjoy beers and girlfriends and the material world.

          He wanted to destroy the great perceived distance between the enlightened and the unenlightened.

          In the past, spiritual men havebeen placed on a pedestal.

          Whereas one of India’s greatest spiritual influences,Krishna, is depicted as playing games with his girlfriends, hiding their clothes so he can watch them naked, and has been described as later taking sixteen thousand wives, the more modern Krishna Consciousness movement that has developed out of more recent devotees of Krishna have condemned sex in a similar way to the Roman Catholic Church.

          Any guru in the ISKCON line is expected to remain celibate. For married couples, sex is just for the purposes of procreation and should only take place once a month.

          In the Roman Catholic Church, if sexual expression is sought outside marriage, or in circumstances in which the procreative function of sexual expression within marriage is deliberately frustrated (e.g. the use of artificial contraception), the Catholic Church expresses her concern.

          Additionally, adultery, divorce, polygamy and ‘free union’ (free love), are grave offences against the dignity of marriage.

          • Lokesh says:

            Shanti, an interesting and thoughtful post.

            I think Osho talking about sharing secrets is a lot of hokum. Osho told me personally that the big secret is that there are no secrets. I reckon that is true. You can find out about absolutely anything if you know how to go about finding it.

            You go on to say that “Osho wanted his New Man, his enlightened rebels, to be down-to-earth, ordinary people, who would be able to enjoy beers and girlfriends and the material world.” If that is indeed true, which I think it is, what would enlightened rebels need esoteric secrets for?

            Towards the end of his life Osho focused on Zen. Zen is not something that has secrets. It is a practice in which there is no other space, no other time or any other moment other than this one.
            It would be interesting if you were to outline what form these mysterious secrets might have taken, because right now it sounds like a typical Osho ploy to keep people interested, believing that some great secrets will be revealed.

            Your comment mentions that “Gurdjieff lived a life that was very mysterious; it was not public. His school was a hidden school. What was happening there, people were simply guessing.”

            Yes, at the time that was probably true and most definitely needed because of war and persecution. And to this day nobody really knows the source of Mr G’s teaching, although there is speculation that it came from a Sufi Monastery in the Himalayas.

            Mr G also said that really there is no big secret because there is no need for secrecy because hardly anyone is interested in life’s deeper mysteries. He also said that consciousness is quantifiable. There is not that much to go around. This does not pose a problem for the seeker because the vast majority of humanity is not interested enough to tap into their share of consciousness and therefore there is an abundance of consciousness for the true seeker. It’s no secret. You can read about it on Sannyas News.

            • Klaus says:


              A considerate post.

              The videos of Osho on the tube not only find many viewers, but they also get very positive comments from people of all sorts of nationalities and faiths. Imo that is different to other videos – and/or blogs – where all kinds of inside and outside fighting is going on in the comments. Sooner or later.

              I remember another Osho quote:
              “All that is essential can only be communicated in silence”….
              Possibly because otherwise the words get in the way.

              As Lokesh is citing and describing within ZEN: no need for special things happening besides carrying water and washing the dishes.

              Or as AY says:
              “In the end, everything happens.”

              • frank says:

                AY says:
                “Perfectly correct, Swami Shanti!
                Certainly, the untrusting baboons of SN are ignorant of the existence of many secrets that have yet to be revealed!

                Swami Bhorat also has many secrets that may only ever be known to the chosen few!

                Truth is, that along with Nine Unknown Men of Mighty Bhorat, Swami Bhorat was also in contact with secret brotherhood ring high in Himalayas from whom he inherited much secret knowledge and also rituals involving hidden tantric info about deflowering 12 year-old girls and secretly conducting tantric strip chakra searches on trusting disciples in order to gain spiritual power and save rotting humanity!

                Certainly, story of Krishna ogling naked girls at local swimming pool (which ritual was also conducted many times in Arambol in 1970s) has esoteric significance for those fortunate enough to have eyes to see by being first in line in hand-out for limited resources of consciousness! Facts of the matter is there is not enough love to go round, so it is absolutely necessary for chosen few to grab it while they can and pop a few cherries pronto because when it`s gone it`s gone!

                Even today many disciples have no idea about the secret work that went on strictly between Swami Bhorat and pantyless female disciples in privacy of his aircon room! Lingams appeared from nowhere! Chakras were rubbed! Vital prana was generated and transferred into various chakras! Substantial transmissions were transmitted!

                Certainly, these things and many others have remained secret to this day and need to be kept away from prying eyes of unconscious masses, loveless rotten lower humanity, local constabulary, vice squad and Operation Yewtree for spiritual welfare of higher consciousness on this planet which perpetrators have spilt so many valuable vital fluids to save!”


                • frank says:

                  Perfectly correct, Klaus!

                  Such secret knowledge must not be expressed in words and can only be preserved in an atmosphere of complete silence by true disciples!

              • Klaus says:

                Maybe ‘communicate’ wasn’t/isn’t the right verb, as it sets the communicator apart.


                might be more fitting.

                …the non-experiential.

                So, everyone is equal in the seeing, viewing, realising etc.

            • satchit says:

              “Osho told me personally…there are no secrets.”

              If he told you personally, Loco, then it must be true.

              A true information!
              A true believer! LOL

              Message from the Centhe Of Hidden Secrets (COHS)!

            • swamishanti says:

              @lokesh “It would be interesting if you were to outline what form these mysterious secrets might have taken….”

              There is a secret , but, sorry, I can’t tell you. Because it’s a secret.

              It’s true that there were many Zen discourses from around 1988- April 1989,until he went into silence, which often gets mentioned, during this time there were also periods where Osho was too sick to come out and speak. But from 1987, back in Pune 2, Osho also gave talks on Kahlil Gibran, the ‘mantra series’, Hari Om Tat Sat, Satyam Shivam Sundram, Om Shanti Shanti, etc., ‘the Golden Future’, ‘The New Dawn’, ‘The Rebel’, ‘The Invitation’, ‘Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh on Basic Human Rights’, ‘A New Vision of Women’s Liberation’, ‘Yahoo!: the Mystic Rose’..etc.

              • Lokesh says:

                I really don’t believe there are any more secrets to be revealed by Osho. After all, he authored a book titled ‘The Book of Secrets’. It is packed with secrets. What more can one ask for?

                This whole secrets thing opens the door for the priests. The secret holders, the key holders, the special class of people who make out that they are privy to secrets, and that you have to deal with in order to find out the secret of secrets. Osho was dead against that kind of shit. Therefore, he brought everything out into the open for everyone to share and in one fell swoop did away wish the wannabe priests.

            • VeetTom says:

              The hankering for mysterious secrets is part of our former esoteric lust. In the earlier days Bhagwan used such esoteric fairy tales and secrets like honey, just like his sex-offer to attract our curiosity. We had to be hooked at our adventurous and alternative look-out-position.

              People on this level today look for alternative facts and they might also love to demonstrate against Corona arrangements by the government, etc.

              Sadly, some sannyasins are still on this trip towards hidden truths for the few, those with deeper insights. ;-)

          • satyadeva says:

            “I don’t think that many sannyasins haven’t heard of SN, it is just that they are not really interested in contributing.”

            Shanti, do you think it would be worthwhile to advertise SN eg “hundreds of articles, thousands of comments on sannyas-related issues” etc. at Sannyas-related facebook sites, together with presenting Lokesh’s book?

            • Lokesh says:

              SD, the focus should be attracting attention to this site. I have saturated sannyasin Facebook pages with enough flyers advertising the holy book. No need to overdo it.

              I accidentally ordered far too many copies of the book at retail price. So any social events I attend where there might be a few potential punters I take a couple of copies along. Only two copies left. Only one sannyasin I sold a book to had heard about SN. Half a dozen other sannyasins I talked to had never heard of SN. Facebook flyers advertising this site might be a good idea. Any ideas most welcome.

              • frank says:

                In marketing they say that the most important thing is you have to identify your target market.
                Normally that is established along lines of age, gender, nationality, location, interests, persuasions, religion etc. but in a nutshell that can maybe be condensed to “Who is your ideal customer?”

                Then you find out where he/she hangs out and convince them that the place that where they will get what they want/need is…..SN.

                So what is the profile of the ideal/target punter for SN?

                • frank says:

                  I think that the main reason that SN readership declined was the slowdown in speed of presented articles after Big P left the building.

                  That is important because it has been established that what keeps people hooked on social media like Facebook is the frequency of new things to look at. That means that there is very little gap in between the shots of endorphins that are triggered by the latest morsel of either good or bad news (makes no difference as long as there is an emotional hit to it). For example, Osho quotes/old Pune1 photos and cat videos at one end of the spectrum and apocalyptic news stories, abuse scandals and extreme conspiracy stuff at the other end.

                  That`s what is addictive and gets the punters coming back and the more the quicker, the better. Even seasoned meditators are not immune to having their endorphins titillated and titivated by as-frequent-as-possible digital fixes.

                  So, having a much quicker stream of stories to comment on could be the key.

                  I don`t think they neccesarily have to be brilliantly worked out op-eds, just something instantly relatable that keeps things rolling. Shanti`s last post, for example, was easily good enough to be an article in its own right.

                  A qualifying piece would not even necessarily need to be that long.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Yes, Frank, more articles coming quicker sounds like a key issue.

                • satchit says:

                  There was already the idea to use old articles again, not so long ago.

                  One could contemplate on repetition and it is very much Zen.

            • swamishanti says:

              Not really, SD. I think most sannyasins who are active on the internet will be aware of it anyhow.

              As far as Lokesh’s book goes, I haven’t had a chance to read it yet and haven’t yet ordered it.

              • Lokesh says:

                Shanti, if you do order it, wait a little longer. I am giving the book a final once over, and should be ready in about 10 days. Just tweaking, correcting spacing, spellos etc. But it will make for a slightly better reading experience. Everyone who has read it that I know was very positive about it.

                I have a tendency to go over projects like this until I have exhausted all possibilities of making it just right. A bit obsessive, one might say.

                How about your idea of making a second book? Did that start to happen yet?

                • swamishanti says:

                  I likely will order it. But I was going to order the printed book. I guess you’ve been tweaking/editing the digital version.

                  Actually, I could do with tweaking some of my own comments.

                  I remember one of your stories from a London squat about your friend who used to stash bottles of piss in the loft. I thought to myself, “I wonder if he’s included that one…”

                  Don’t drink too much this festive season….

                • swamishanti says:

                  I always thought that a compilation of arguments between SD and Shantam would make a good chapter or two. Perhaps they could do an audio book together.

              • Lokesh says:

                Shanti, both the Kindle and paperback will be updated. I will announce when they are ready, steady go.

                No need to worry about your published comments. They are perfectly fine, or else I would not have published them.

                Just for the record, I rarely drink alcohol. A teacher plant taught me to avoid it.

                • frank says:

                  I haven`t taken any drugs or booze since the last century. The last time I took a strong hit of acid was on a full moon night on Anjuna beach in the 90s.

                  Beginning to severely buzz on the exceptionally warm night, I left my friends in the Shore Bar to go for a swim. It was a still night and the ocean almost wave-free. I walked down the beach, to where it was quiet and left my lunghi on the shore and slipped into the lusciously warm water, swam out a few yards then floated on my back in the gazing up at the massive tropical moon.

                  I say gazing up, but as I lay there supported by the unconditional love of the calm ocean it was impossible to say whether the moon was above me or whether I was flying high above the moon gazing down at it whilst stuck to planet earth by the glue of the sea. We circumnavigated each other for an eternity, knowing all the time that there was not really any essential difference between us, we were simply lumps of some unspecified matter infused by and radiating infinite candelas of cosmic luminescence in a silent planetary choir of bliss.

                  I don`t know how long this went on for but eventually I decided to go back to the shore. Back on the sand, I stood there, naked but for my red loincloth and gazed out at the ocean. The moonlight lit the surface of the sea and the view was a perfectly blissful combination of darkness and light.

                  Suddenly, I felt a distinct presence just out of view to my left. I could hear breathing. Some kind of living being. Not entirely benevolent. Slowly I turned my head to look at it. I was greeted by a bizarre apparition. Standing a few feet away from me was quite an ugly, slightly tubby Indian man dressed as a woman, a transvestite or maybe a transsexual, long hair tied up with flowers, in full sari down to ankle bracelets. He looked at me. I looked at him. What did he want? Then he looked straight in the eye and enquired: “Sucking baba? Fifty Rupees.”

                  I think I tried to say “For fuck`s sake!” but all I heard was an incoherent mumble wobbling out of my mouth as I stumbled away from the apparition as fast as I could. The oceanic bliss of my moonlit mind evaporated like a muddy puddle and the scruffy beach with its prowling dogs suddenly looked more like the entrance to some kind of hellzone. My psychedelic freaky journey had just crashed into the brick wall of the ugly reality of third world tourism, and speeding down the road of excess my dogma had finally been run over by my karma. I headed back to the Shore Bar.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Good acid story, Frank. I have a few acid freakers in Goa under my psychedelic belt.

                  In ’74 I was on little Vagator beach one morning and me and my loco chums dropped a couple of windowpanes. What we did not know was that the tailend of a cyclone was about to hit the beach. When the sea got wild we thought it was the acid and went for a swim…we had cuts and bruises to prove it. We retired to our house. When the roof was blown off, we realised there was something amiss.

                • swamishanti says:

                  I too haven’t had any acid since the last century.

                  Yeah, it can really give the mind and consciousness a colourful expansion.

                • frank says:

                  Good one!

                  Btw, I recently read ‘Divine Rascal’ by Andy Roberts. It`s about the life of Michael Hollingshead, the guy who introduced Leary to acid and self-styled “Man who turned on the world”.

                  ‘Divine Rascal’ gets to a lot of the detail behind the myth. Really crazy, off-the-wall, one-off story on a lot of different levels.

                • Klaus says:


                  Having read your short story from on the beach under the moon I recommend that you should write your memoirs! Fictional and/or non-fictional.

                  I pre-order!

                  As I am sure you have tons of stories.

                • frank says:

                  Thanks Klaus, appreciated.
                  Yes, I have a few tales and still just enough braincells to remember them!

                  “The universe made of stories, not atoms.”

  7. Klaus says:

    I am actually quite afraid that when moving to FB we will be overrun by the shallowness of the Indian masses striving for western gadgets: cars, money, drugs, boys & girls in public action etc.

    Or the other guys & girls who think it is all about their great nation.


    As far as my perception takes me, Osho/Bhagwan/Sannyas is a quality game. Which has been lost once before.

    • Reading your comment I thought surely Osho/Bhagwan/Sannyas was a quality game: a clean well for high school drop-out western frogs.

      I also deduct, Klaus, you are like one of those high qualified Germans who think Covid vaccination is created by Bill Gates to reduce world population.

      • satyadeva says:

        “Reading your comment I thought surely Osho/Bhagwan/Sannyas was a quality game: a clean well for high school drop-out western frogs.”

        Shantam, I think most western sannyasins tended to be pretty well educated, with higher qualifications than a high school diploma or its equivalent. I’m not sure of the figures but I recall reading that something like well over 50/60% (or more) had degrees and/or professional qualifications.

        Perhaps part of your seemingly chronic disillusion stems from you yourself having forsaken a law degree course in favour of a ‘Promised (?) Land’ of ‘Love, Life and Laughter’ (with just a tiny morsel or two of Sex thrown in, of course, now and then, on birthdays and occasional weekends)?

        • Do we know any biographical notes about you, SD? Is there any worldly or non-worldly achievement you are proud of?

          Do you know any sannyasin in UK who has contributed more than average to any society?

          In hindsight, I think Bhagwan surely touched a collective emotional vacuum of the west, the warmth created by collective that was missing and still missing in the west.
          But the end result has been the bigger vacuum sannyasins fell into.

          I think there is a saying, ‘fruits show what kind of tree it was’.
          One cannot say about Sannyas, all is well that ends well.
          Neither it ended well for Master himself nor for his majority of sannyasins. This I am saying not because of personal loss and mistakes but observing honestly, accepting without denial.

          • frank says:

            As we are all so highly educated here, with most of the SN regulars like myself holding doctorates and masters` degrees from Noonieversity, Punaniversity as well as Multiversity, I think we should have a round of ‘University Challenge’.

            Fingers on the buzzers. Here`s your starter for ten:
            If you have one bucket that holds 2 gallons and another bucket that holds 5 gallons, how many buckets do you have?

          • Lokesh says:

            Shantam, it sounds to me like it is you who fell into a vacuum. But that does not mean that everyone else involved with Osho did.

            You say that what you are saying is not because of personal loss and mistakes but observing honestly, accepting without denial. What is it exactly that you are observing? Accepting what? Not being in denial about what?

            I think that sannyasins have contributed a lot to global society and that there are many intelligent, creative, meditative, loving people in the sannyasin ranks. You just do not seem to be meeting them. A reflection of yourself perhaps. Hence your gloomy, disillusioned perspective. Were you to receive a booster shot of inspiration and joy the way you see things would change.

            It really is all within yourself. Yes, a cliche, but that does not mean it is not true. Whatever I feel, think or feel I take responsibility for and do not project onto others what is really my very own personal business. If one does not do that, one is constantly leaking energy, and that will leave you in a depressed condition, living in a world that reflects your inner state.

            Shantam, in all due sincerity, it appears to me that you are simply not aware of this. If you were you would drop your gloomy perspective and lighten up.

            We are living in a very strange time in human history. The world is, as usual, in a bit of a mess. The world desperately needs happy people, people who still want to celebrate, dance, laugh and enjoy life to the full. Why not sign up for that, instead of singing the disillusionment blues every day?

            • Lokesh, fact is you left the train before it started burning.
              You withdrew your investment before the over-ambitious company went into liquidity crunch.

              Problem with sentimental observation is we stop observing without Detachment.
              It is like if a helicopter owned by Guru Airlines gets crashed, investigation done by the followers will find the manufacturing defect or blame the weather.

              • frank says:

                Osho was a con-man.
                His disciples were paedos.
                The movement burned and crashed – a train wreck.
                You lost your money and mind.
                Enlightenment was a just a ponzi scheme.
                Everyone you know thinks you are an idiot who wasted your life on an illusion and you have no valid riposte.
                You can`t even get a decent shag anymore.
                You are not so young as you used to be and your body will soon burn and crash too.

                So…cheer up!

              • satchit says:

                Fact is, Shantam, there never was a train.

                Or, the idea that there is a train belongs to the train-chakra.

                You miss it, because you are the judge from the hill!

              • Klaus says:


                Without criticising you or reproaching you one bit I like to offer you the thought that:

                All we – all of us individually – have been trying to learn – through practice, letting go, pain, help by a guru or others – is to let things end in our mind:

                Bhagwan Guru dissolved.
                Oregon concept dissolved.
                Airline dissolved.
                Helicopter dissolved.
                Words… dissolved.
                Person dissolved.
                Everything dissolved.

                That is possible:
                Salam Alleikum! Peace. Without end.

                Imo, that’s the way to do – or look at – it.

                I wish you well.

                (Lokesh has put it much much more nicely!!).

              • Lokesh says:

                Fact is, Shantam, you just sang verse two of Disillusionment Blues. And the beat goes on.

          • satyadeva says:

            Shantam, I’ll get to your queries later on, but first, I’d like to ask you whether you’re grateful for anything at all in your experience of being part of Osho’s movement. Because all you seem to focus on, to the point of obsession, is what went wrong, for the collective and, by implication, for you personally.

            Could you possibly provide a list of what made your time around Osho and his people worthwhile, please?

            • it seems self-certified gang of retired sannyasins are living in the space of gratitude. I wonder whether they ever showed gratitude to their parents, their countries and their roots and the generation of people who created civil and military infrastructure and pride of all NHS.

              The depth of gratitude is a state of being, when someone focuses just on his guru or partner it’s having a colour-blind version of gratitude.

              • Lokesh says:

                Shantam, gratitude is something you rarely express on SN. Why not focus on the reason for that instead of wondering about other people’s level of gratitude.

                It is obvious from many of the regulars’ comments that they have no difficulty expressing gratitude and not just in relation to their guru or partner. I find it easy to determine if someone in grateful for what life has brought them. Perhaps you are not old enough yet to appreciate that every morning you get out of bed and feel good you quite naturally feel grateful for that.

                Osho was big on gratitude. “God has given you this life, this tremendously valuable gift, and you cannot even appreciate it. You cannot welcome it, you cannot feel any gratitude for it. On the contrary, you are complaining and complaining and complaining. Your heart is full of grudges, not gratitude.” He could have been speaking to you directly when he uttered these words.

                • “Osho was big on gratitude” – does it means for thousands of years humanity was living in a state of ungratefulness?

                  Is not a right time a seventy years old man comes out from an oedipal complex, “My daddy is a super-hero”?

                  In my definition of gratitude for a person, one is surely around during bad times if not in good times.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Sorry, Shantam, you have lost me there. I have no idea what you are talking about.

                  Oedipal complex? I think you mean Oedipus complex, in psychoanalytic theory, a desire for sexual involvement with the parent of the opposite sex and a concomitant sense of rivalry with the parent of the same sex; a crucial stage in the normal developmental process. In relation to you showing a lack of gratitude, I fail to make the connection.

                • frank says:

                  AY says:
                  “Shantambhai! Swami Bhorat salutes your heroism for once more showing the ungrateful baboons your specialist grasp of both the Vedic science of starsigns and psychoanalytic theory by doing a Freudian slip then landing on Uranus!

                  Certainly, Shantam has much experience in psychoanalysis!
                  He has been lying on couch saying first thing that comes into his head for years!
                  Again, the intelligence of his free associations and metaphors mixed in non-export quality Bajaj cement mixer from circa 1980s cannot be understood by ignorant western minds that think that in the matter of words it matters or not whether the underpants are outside the trousers!

                  Plus, Shantam has extensive experience of Oedipal feelings since pumping phase(88-90) when he is wanting to shag Mas of the gora species and also simultaneously wanting to kill gora male father-figure disciples!

                  Certainly Shantology will last for thousands of yugas as it is a discipline on a par with anything the western mind in its ungrateful ignorance could come up with and also even shares central insight of western psychological baboons!”

                • Lokesh says:

                  Frank, AY’s latest message has been copy and pasted into revised edition of ‘The Very Best and Worst of Sannyas News’. Yes, believe it or not, I am still working on it…updating insights etc.

                • frank says:

                  Perfectly correct, Lokesh!
                  Certainly, in order to stop the unconscious masses from committing the global suicide and worse, it is absolutely necessary for Swami Bhorat`s vision and legless legacy to be made available to all!

                  What Swami G is doing is immensely significant! He is to Swami Bhorat what Ananda was to Buddha, Chuang Tse was to Lao Tse, Ouspensky was to Gurdjieff, Dhyan Raj to Swami Brian, Peter, Paul, Mary, Beaky, Dozy and Tich were to Jesus Christ and Rolf Harris to Sai Baba!

                  Hari Om!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Sun arise and hold tight!

              • Klaus says:


                Clearly. Your piercing love arrows are a fine challenge to push one further over the edge!

                In this way, your mock attacks are of value, indeed.

                It is always useful to keep ‘peeling the onion’ as long as there is onion left….


                • frank says:

                  It is said that in ‘Oedipus the King’, the play by Sophocles, “Oedipus is responsible for the tragedy of his own downfall. Oedipus is presented with a series of choices throughout the play, and his arrogant and stubborn nature push him to impulsively make the wrong decisions, the decisions that ultimately lead him to his downfall.”

          • satyadeva says:

            Shantam, you enquire, “Do we know any biographical notes about you, SD? Is there any worldly or non-worldly achievement you are proud of?”

            You seem to have forgotten that I’ve already said here on SN, a few years ago, that I’m primarily happy to have managed to get through to this point in life after a dysfunctional start and several very difficult ensuing periods. Much (but far from all) of the credit for this goes to Osho, his therapies and meditations and the community he created, where I’ve found some good friends and partners.

            As for other “achievements”, well, nothing out-of-the-ordinary, but I’m happy to have had a fairly wide range of work experience, particularly helping children, young people and adults with their studies, in and out of school and college (including for a royal family in the Far East), running an adventure playground and teaching tennis. I ran a marathon in 3 hours 19 mins. (And had the privilege of editing the first edition of ‘The Mustard Seed’).

            You also ask, “Do you know any sannyasin in UK who has contributed more than average to any society?”

            Yes, I certainly know and have known such people, who are far more common than I suspect you seem to want to imagine. The former editor of SN himself was one such person. And there have been and are plenty more, employed and self-employed, social workers, dentists, teachers, computer experts, accountants, secretaries, business owners, therapists, artists, dancers, astrologers, and so on.

            But, Shantam, your query tends to reveal an over-conventional, rather shallow stance that begs the question: By what criteria do we judge or assess ‘contributions to society’?

            Someone may appear to have done very little, in conventional terms, but might be a blessing to all who come across him/her.

            Another might have found him/herself landed with existential difficulties requiring many years of committed inner work to perhaps first even survive before being able to live in a fulfilling way. (That was particularly the case for many of the generation of the West born during and after the second world war as they ‘inherited the sins of their fathers’, leaving them ill-equipped to face what their parents couldn’t or wouldn’t, the new demands of a different, far less repressed age).

            Others might have played a vital, unpaid role, eg as a wife/mother//partne/husband/father in running a family home.

            Or what about low-paid care workers who do unglamorous but essential, at times even heroic work looking after the elderly, sick and afflicted?

            An ‘achiever’ might have been a high-flying innovator or have reached the top in science, business, politics, law or whatever, while being a ruthless so’n'so at work and/or a mediocre, thoroughly selfish partner or failure in private life.

            Remember, research has revealed that a statistically more than average number of psychopaths reach positions of considerable power in organisations (including, perhaps, early/mid-1980s Sannyas!).

            Ultimately, isn’t what really counts the quality of an individual, not their outer achievements? If not, Shantam, I trust you’re not tempted to look down on your own self?

      • Klaus says:

        Certainly: Nope. (@Shantam’s comment)

    • Klaus says:

      But then again, I am also not afraid, because ‘people are the same wherever you go’. True enough. Isn’t it?

  8. satchit says:

    “All is well that ends well”

    Celebrating the failure too!

    This is the holy message of today.

  9. Klaus says:

    Support Satchit’s message of today…

    Even the incomplete is complete in its incompleteness.

    I offer some leaves for the tree in its habitat. Picture.

  10. Klaus says:

    Picture was left out in a rush for the incomplete, chittichittibangbang….

    • satyadeva says:

      Here’s a Christmas greeting sent today by Ma Anand Madhu, a long-time sannyasin, based in Munich, and well known here as a contributor to SN for many years, who is unable to post directly any more due to computer issues:

      “Deat Satyadeva,

      Merry Christ-Consciousness!

      So good to have some sparkle of Light some rare moments – knowing that chat(ter) bots (and algorithms to design such crap) fighting enlighten-tertainments are not the real thing.

      Quite bad – at the same time – to get to know how utterly fragile are these rare moments.

      Alas, “caravanserais” are just temporary meeting places, aren’t they?

      I remember the poem I sent to this UK Chat in April 2014 and I mention it as it is even more rare that some GAPS can be spoken in words too.

      Wishing you as others here Happy Christ-Conciousness Days – in the midst of all Chaos and turmoil of Change.

      Wishing you the best – as you like to say!


      • Lokesh says:

        A fascinating and enlightentertaining post from Madhu. Pity she won’t be able to see it displayed in all its majesty due to bots (and algorithms to design such crap) fighting enlighten-tertainments are not the real thing. I am sure everyone will be able to relate to that on a powerfully existential level.

  11. Has assembly of wise men and women come on some conclusion about faecbook page of Sannyasnews?

  12. VeetTom says:

    Before I read all those comments on Lokesh’s article I want to state that I come here every half year at the most. I then read some well-written posts by six or seven people as usual…but mostly feel my contribution would not be very welcome. Why?

    Even if some controversial content is tickling my love for intellectual and almost philosophical approach in this creative writing style of SN-readers my feeling is that this board is just another closed circle. Furthermore: My English is not sophisticated enough to add anything – or do I fear it’s only me who does not reach your horizon of wisdom? Yes, I agree with myself here ;-) I was always a little afraid of superb and almost enlightened sannyasins.

    For example, I read the many, many comments on Shantam’s return to his Sikh ID and the blame he put on Western sannyasins. I can understand his Indian mind a little from those 1 1/2 years in Pune, and I also liked his ‘trial and error’ to express his actual state of mind, because it was a clear ‘Outing’ and a needed honesty to himself by being hard to himself and others while making his point. Interesting mind-stuff came up, often very well placed, and in clever, tapering words…BUT:

    As this is not a publication by the ‘Pune-Church’ it is true that this sometimes sceptical Sannyas-mind does not easily fall under Sannyas-Censorship so often and that directly as in those official and always positive Sannyas-posts by the org or some therapy-institution. But here we have a certain well-behaving Sannyas-ID as well. A steady undercurrent you want to call and fix as True Sannyas. Shit happens.

    The ‘editor or admin.’ Lokesh (he may be, or not) and his chosen few always agree about the right tone that needs to be kept and spoken here. This is a typical religious or political esprit-de-corps of course, even if we sannyasins think we are – or should be – beyond those stupid but all so common ‘belief-circles’.

    “We know, we know…don’t we ?”…”Yes, we agree on that.”
    The mind watching the mind watching the mind…Nothing new.

    Btw: I got censored one or two times here…but who knows, I may need this ‘head-chopping’ wound to stay away from closed elitist circles/or stay safe withou them. What happened? I poked the censor by promoting some great video by the newest Indian (S.) Guru. As so often in facebook-Groups: “This other Guru does not belong here on our site.” “Go there” or “Open your own Sangha” and “Write your own book” is the hostile goodbye once again, so very often.

    Well, it seems you accept at least E.Tolle as a funny sidekick to Osho and some of his colleagues. That’s your openness that the Pune.Org would never be able to accept (officially).

    There is more to this… maybe later… after your applause ;-)

    • frank says:

      Tom, thanks for your take on SN.

      I imagine everyone agrees that SN can use some different input to liven it up.

      I`m surprised about your censorship problems, when was that? However, I see you haven`t been blocked and you have managed to post vids of Sadhguru before on here so the `censorship` has not been too severe.

      I`m not sure I follow everything that you are trying to say, e.g. I don`t recognise myself as an `elitist`

      And also e.g. when you say, “it seems you accept at least E.Tolle as a funny sidekick to Osho and some of his colleagues”, are you saying that SN seems to be ET supporters? If so, I would like to record my disagreement. I think he is a total knobhead and a sign of what a bland commercial product nuage spirituality has become.

      • satyadeva says:

        Until about two and a half years ago I similarly regarded ET, viewing him as a sort of ‘Barry Long-Lite’ character, but my impression changed after an old friend I hadn’t seen for a very long time, a sannyasin, told me how helpful ET was, his opinion being that he (ET) was, in fact, the ‘successor’ to BL that the latter had forecast would spread his sort of work far and wide.

        Returning to ET online I found that had already happened and that his ongoing, ever-expanding work was far more impressive than I’d previously believed.

        Right now he seems to be in his prime. This talk I came across recently:

        • Arpana says:

          I’ve had insights triggered by remarks made by individuals in the supermarket checkout, which suggests remaining open.

          Inspiration can come from anywhere; apart from one individual who has posted here regularly, who has only inspired me on every occasion he has ever posted, to not bother reading the crap he comes out with. ✌(-‿-)

          • satyadeva says:

            Me too, Arps, especially once quite recently at the supermarket checkout.

            I said, “Could I have my change, please?” And the female cashier replied, “Haven’t you realised yet..?” Followed by a pause, brief yet pregnant with meaning, to which I, profoundly discomfited, head hanging in utter shame, could only mutter, “No, sorry, I had a terrible childhood, I’m still working on my lower chakras.”

            I’ll never forget the way she stared at me in response for a few moments, her gaze laced with supreme condescension yet somehow communicating overwhelming compassion…

            At length, she barked, “Bourneville dark chocolate’s £1, you gave me two 50ps – no change, no problem!”

            I’ve been meditating on that ever since and, for once, I do sense I’m really getting somewhere, at last.

            • Arpana says:

              That is so inspring, SD.
              You are a breath of fresh air.

            • frank says:

              Please don`t be offended, but my honest opinion of this is that Tolle is actually subtly shaming his listeners here.

              People feel inadequate in their relationships, because yes, life can be challenging and the partner is a mirror of your shadow. Then preacherman shows up and tells them how they are bound for failure because what they are experiencing is not “true” “divine” love.

              I just don`t see how that could work other than to lead to more shame.

              The only chance in the game is total awareness/presence. But what are the odds of that?!?

              What about Tolle himself? I am told he never even managed to get a girlfriend before his `enlightenment”. Now his partner is his chief disciple, with the power imbalance and reflected glory to the outside world that that entails This is the example to follow?

              It just doesn`t any make any sense to me at all.

              • satyadeva says:

                Well, Frank, maybe it’s a matter of a ‘teacher of enlightenment’ either conveying the truth or offering consolation? These people often enough say and recommend things that are anathema to the way we normally look at ourselves and our situations and thus annoy many.

                Although apart from being clear about the common realities of relationships ET also provides much practical, compassionate advice, he’s not just there telling us it’s all a total waste of time.

                As for him only having an intimate partner post-enlightenment, that at least provides evidence that it’s a pretty useful state to be in! She’s no ‘doormat’ or ‘trophy wife’ though, she’s a teacher in her own right, a very good one too, according to my partner.

                • frank says:

                  Getting enlightenment is a good way to pull the chicks?
                  The evidence tallies. Seems undeniable. I agree with that.

                • kavita says:

                  Not a fan of ET but maybe Nature/Educational Institutions/Religious Institutions/Enlightenment, Roosters & Chicks find each other any which way!

                • VeetTom says:

                  Tolle and Sadhguru are living NOW.
                  What makes old-school sannyasins moan about the 1000 Buddhas now, maybe them being more famous and understood than Osho?

                  Also they are resistant to see the same light broken in another prism. To me this is religious ignorance, an old-fashioned dogma and nothing else. Towards this failing understanding no discussion brings any more clearity. It has to die of its own accord.

                  About 50% of sannyasins were able to check new guides and masters in the Ramana-Advaita lineage, or elsewhere. The new Sadhguru for the world – with the help of Yoga – is accepted at the most ordinary and funny places…while our master was laughed at and hated by many.

                  And don’t forget: We were another generation with other questions and he then was best for us. Now something else is cooking in the outside world – not AIDS but Corona ;-)

                • satyadeva says:

                  Veet Tom, I suspect that the way such things work is somehow more organically integrated, less ‘cut and dried’ than just a matter of ‘this master is now irrelevant, others have surpassed him for the present generation’.

                  For instance, it may well be that without Bhagwan/Osho there’d be no space prepared, as it were, for the likes of Sadhguru (who seems to have copied Osho’s personal appearance and whom I don’t particuarly warm to, as it happens, in fact I find him rather creepy).

                  Osho himself drew many who’d been exposed to and influenced by such as Gurdjieff, Ram Dass, Alan Watts and even the Maharishi, not to mention the explosion of holistic personal growth culture in the 60s and 70s and, of course, mind-expanding drugs. The post-war generation was ripe for a massive change and Osho was the one who rode that wave and, I think, played a huge part in clearing the human psyche through his people so that the next generations have been able to start from a different, clearer space.

                  None of which, btw, makes Osho’s teaching any less relevant for anyone who is drawn to him, whatever their age or background, be they ‘Pune veterans’, ‘millennial newbies’, or any other label perpetrarted on them.

                  Eckhart Tolle acknowledges having been strongly influenced by several teachers, notably Barry Long, from whom he’s taken much (I recall him telling BL in a public meeting in London that he wanted to be a spiritual teacher, many years before he ‘hit the big-time’, which, btw, at that time certainly puzzled me as he didn’t seem particularly impressive). BL himself predicted someone would carry on his work after he left the scene and expand it over the world and it’s pretty clear that ET is that individual, although not in every respect.

                  His delivery is gentler, more soothing, despite not flinching from harsh truths, while Barry’s compassion could also embrace uncompromising Aussie abrasiveness at times, not everyone’s cup of tea, but which I enjoyed.

                  So (despite ‘Osho Rajneesh’) this isn’t necessarily about ‘clones’, BL was very much ‘a man of the world’, successful in careers, a family man with much experience in relationships with women, and with much to say about sexual intimacy while ET simply doesn’t have those depths of perspective.

                  Once again, though, in terms of evaluating a spiritual teacher, whatever feels right is good – until it isn’t. Just because someone is dead doesn’t mean nothing they’ve been, said or done is of any practical value for a disciple/follower/friend. And who are you or I or anyone to declare otherwise? Such a relationship, if genuine, isn’t merely an item of fashion, to be discarded as soon as the next ‘good thing’ comes on the scene to, as it were, ‘consume’.

                • frank says:

                  Tom, you are the one caught up in old-school ideas and lingo.
                  `1000 buddhas` `Resistant` to these `masters`?
                  I don`t see it through that prism at all.

                  Sadhguru to me looks a right-wing, bigoted, mendacious, neo-Hindu fundamentalist with a kind of semi-groovy modern front.
                  His wife dies mysteriously, the Indian cops back off and accept it is a “yogic Mahasamadhi”. Come on, dude. You`ve fallen asleep at your old-school desk.

                  Tolle is a new age preacher/meditation teacher who got onto Oprah, so old sannyasins have to watch his Youtube vids.
                  That`s a good one.

  13. VeetTom says:

    Why not Tolle, why not Sadhguru?
    Because clinging to the One and Only is a sad affair…
    Commercial Gurus? Come on, we had that before. Remember?

    Just the sentence under my half-baked article:
    “VeetTom says:…
    Your comment is awaiting moderation” gives me the feeling to be aware to take good care of my words…which is needed anyway, because I need to edit my raw stuff right away after having seen it posted. Here in SN this is just impossible. Have to learn and accept this, but I prefer the possibility to delete mistakes, erase weak formulations and just read through it again and again sometimes. Rarely the first sketch seems right to me.

    This fits to the thread-opener concerning facebook vs. Sannyas News. The layout over there is much fresher than an old-fashioned web board like this, but you all won’t leave this, your cozy house, I understand. So what?

    Lokesh tears for missing new blood here, I can understand. It puzzled me years ago to see “7 virtual poets” joining in this writer’s guild, while most sannyasins don’t find access towards this home of humorous stories and those therapeutic mockeries. Btw, maybe because of Shantam mostly?

    I opened another small group on facebook:
    Number of inhabitants: 7

    Few days ago I found a well visited group called:
    I left an invitation there.

    Now we have 31 members. Maybe some of you also like to post some of your talented, shrewd stories over there? Copy and paste will do! We also need fresh blood…and I am tired of being the only thread-opener. Old friends and old stories are always NEW till the end. Add a photo maybe and start up?

    May I add the words. His blessings…and…Love?
    Just for the old days’ sake….

    Veet Tom, re your comments on being unable to alter a post once it’s been submitted, you can always ask us to change something, which happens often enough.
    Also, of course, before sending it here you could simply revise what you’ve written until you’re satisfied with it, as article writers do.

    • VeetTom says:

      Thanks and yes – also again – for correcting my misspellings and even changing my misfitting description after you did ask what I really meant. Nice service! ;-)

      Here & facebook: I advertized a little bid for SN over there, but I also know this intellectual board is for a smaller number of ‘philosophers’ only. I like the free debating form here. It may be a little old-fashioned to give mind-therapy to one of your old friends (Shantam) by slicing responses and ridiculing in a funny way (with a little Zen-hit inside) – but he could stand it – and he was a free-willing victim of course…lol.

      I mentioned that I avert those “Greeting-Card-Osho-Quote-Fanclub-Groups” with no individual sharing at all, and I was told there is an existing discussion group:

      If you surrender to the 10 rules you are acepted. There is a lot of traffic. On top – right now – seems to be a lot of honest and creative reflections on negative aspects of the ‘Golden Sannyas Past’. This also won’t be possible in the ever-positive ‘Copyright Church’…See what comes up there for me…and you?

      The facebook group recommended here is restricted to those who lived and/or worked in Sannyas communes between 1974 and 1990.

  14. VeetTom says:

    Frank, you are repeating stories and anecdotes about Tolle and S.Guru just like the way most ordinary mass media did in those days of Osho. To me it is strange that highly intelligent people like you fall on such a trivial level. I admire your brilliant English too, but does this help you in this spiritual-esoteric-fairytale-area with no insight into what enlightenment means ? No, it seems…What can I do ? Nothing.

    As a sannyasin you should have learned those things by now. What exactly? Who am I to tell? I can’t say a meaningful word to you. Your resistance may have psychological reasons I cannot even lay my finger on. Your words are very rich but show no philosophical ability and vision. Funny and strange to me. Maybe you live in words only? Please excuse my bewilderment and non-understanding of your reasons. Sorry.

    Start with sex to superconciousness again?
    Just try this or at least read the title of the question:

    • frank says:

      Tom, you say: “Frank, you are repeating stories and anecdotes about Tolle and S.Guru just like the way most ordinary massmedia did in those days of Osho.”

      That is simply not true. Firstly, I haven`t repeated anecdotes about Tolle.

      And the “Mahasamadhi” explanation is how Sadhguru himself explained the death of his perfectly healthy wife who had a young daughter at the time.

      In order to believe Sadhguru`s version you have to believe in such a phenomenon as a cause of death. That is, in your words, a hell of a “spiritual-esoteric-fairytale-area”. In my words, complete, self-serving bullshit.

      Re the vid you posted, he talks the talk but given his previous, I wouldn`t be surprised if he wanks himself silly when no one`s watching.

      • VeetTom says:

        Sannyas & Osho have not helped a lot, Frank?
        So what…that’s usual with masters and the crowd.
        Wait for another life, Frank – that life after the next life…
        A Million years is a million years, I heard here, yes.

        Maybe try another German enlightened One?
        A German in Mumbai.
        Try to follow and you will lose your mind ;-) !

        • kavita says:

          Thank you, VT, for reminding about this train ride!

          Nisargadatta’s educated & English-speaking clone!

          ”Try to follow and you will lose your mind…” – Btw, VT, have you followed?!

          • VeetTom says:

            Karl is such a bad rhetorician and philosopher, you will lose all meaningful grip on his allegories – the first time you try to understand his words. He knows it. He calls himself “just a farmer” (he was). But he is willing and capable to destroy all spiritual theories you will ever bring forward. Of course you will recover ;-)

            Funny guy with bad English though.

            • kavita says:

              Btw, VT, you write English quite well and his English is not bad at all, for a non-English-speaking person.

              Seems KR’s farming skills have surely worked on you!

              Yes, funny he is, also a beyond-mind-f**ker, if I may say so!

        • Klaus says:


          Isn’t SannyasNews a place where friends of Osho/Bhagwan meet?

          So, you came over from the other place with the 10 precepts ‘to rouse the rabble’ here? Where discussions are like: “On top – right now – seems to be a lot of honest and creative reflections on negative aspects of the ‘Golden Sannyas Past’.”

          Already? Congrats!

          To me, here is not a place of ‘friends of and people stuck with Osho/Bhagwan’.

          Some people are playing the role of – or are – the advocatus diaboli. Which is helpful, in my eyes in order to see the traps of naivety, positive over-identification etc.

          Some people have experienced the ‘Satsang circus’, too – with the likes of OM C. Parkin (who made, imo, a funny turn of life…), Gangaji, Madhukar, Samarpan, Artur and others. Or with Tibetan meditation teachers. And the nowadays popular Mindfulness-based this and that.

          I guess, the newcomers to the enlightenment circus are known here, too, be it S.Guru, S.S.RaviShankar, BhaktiMarga etc.etc.

          SannyasNews to me has been a lively and most of the times highly inspiring exchange. Sometimes a bit low on friendliness, imo. That is possibly why on others’ sites there are a few more rules.


          • VeetTom says:

            Forget about the rules that some admin. blindly – more or less – just took over from the usual facebook suggestions they offer you in newly-founded groups. It looked stupid to me as well, but just the will of one administrating person feeling to take care of “negative superspreaders” who might spoil the temple – almost the way Klaus just acted here on my thread – does not mean they will remain a closed circle all the time.

            Let’s see what they do with S.Guru. Like him or crucify him – always the same.

            Fyi, Veet Tom, experience has led to SN also having certain standards, chiefly a ban on excessive personal abuse of fellow-contributors.

            • Klaus says:

              “Let’s see what they do with S.Guru. Like him or crucify him – always the same.”

              There is – as a third option – the Japanese “Mu”…

              Neither Yes nor No.

              That’s the one I tend to.

              • frank says:

                Klaus, agreed.
                The best answer to neo-Hindu holy cowdung and Zen bull is definitely: “Muu.”

                Also, the whole idea of getting wisdom from Youtube videos is highly questionable.
                There is a hypnotic element to listening or watching podcasts, too. I find that if you read the same material in written form you have a different experience.

                There is an addictive buzz to being put into a nice little trance by these guys as you stare at your screen. All your questions answered as you lie in your hypnogogic bath of Nuage Brainwash ™ and let it all soak in. Ahhhh…

                Trouble is, a large amount of those suggestions, in the cold light of day, are either gibberish or misinformation that hypnotically seed into your brain. And then you find yourself spouting the same nonsense, convinced that you are party to your own original wisdom.

                It`s a bit like the old joke:
                “I see the Guinness advertising campaign has got to you,” says Sean to Paddy, who has just ordered another pint of Guinness in the pub.
                “Oh no, not me”, answers Paddy, “I drink it because it is good for me.”
                (For people unfamiliar one of most famous ad slogans: “Guinness is good for you!”).

                Book-learning has always been suspect in meditation/spiritual/sannyas circles.
                But folks are now happy replacing books and real life with Youtube vids of various thought-leaders.

        • Arpana says:

          @ VeetTom, 29 January 2022 at 10:01 pm

          He sounds to me like an ageing dope-head.
          I have vivid memories of people banging on like that, probably did it myself when I was stoned in my 20s. He sounds to me like he lives in his head. Stoner rationalising can sound quite mystical – mystical crap though!!!!

  15. VeetTom says:

    Satyadeva, I do agree with mostly…almost all…of your comments above on Tolle, Osho and the other colleagues of the enlightened league…all so very different and unique on their own.

    Osho was before S.Guru, yes. But you know when someone asked Jesus about the Jewish Sabbath, or something, He said: “I was before Moses” This is also true about S.Guru. He was before Osho!

    On the other hand, it is so very obvious that S.Guru and his team have learned an incredible lot from the whole Sannyas movement. Absolutely. But S.Guru is not at all a carbon copy. He is very different but as ‘salty’ as Osho at the same time…

    • satchit says:

      It’s not about being “salty”, Tom.

      Someone feels attracted to this Guru,
      someone feels attracted to another Guru,
      someone feels attracted to no Guru at all.

      • VeetTom says:

        True, we love our salty dogs!

        Urban Dict.:
        “1. Appalachian slang for favourite person, i.e. best friend or lover. Derived from the practice of rubbing salt on hunting dogs to keep off ticks. Since salt was commonly in limited supply, one would only do this to their favourite dog, and it became slang for favorite person.”

    • satyadeva says:

      “Osho was before S.Guru, yes. But you know when someone asked Jesus about the Jewish Sabbath, or something, He said: “I was before Moses” This is also true about S.Guru. He was before Osho!”

      Veet Tom, what do you understand by “I was before”?

      • VeetTom says:

        Osho spoke on those quite authentic Jesus words…

        To me the shortest paradox – just as in the Bible:
        “I am – I was – and I will be”
        ~ * ~
        And to cheer you up, this new (almost the same) gift for you. I do love this prayer edited to a video-clip-addition:

        • satyadeva says:

          Ok, so it means that Jesus and Sadhguru have both realised the fundamental truth of their eternal Being, beyond the body, mind, person? Implying they were ‘never born’ (and will never die)?

          And Osho too, presumably, in your view?

          How then can one say any one of these or other ‘similarly qualified’ individuals is or was “before” any others, either, obviously, in temporal terms, other than being born at an earlier date (in this case, Moses actually preceding Jesus, and Osho being “before” Sadhguru) or, the key point here, in terms of their innate quality and hence, significance for humanity?

          Frankly, it sounds like the sort of ‘esoteric’-sounding concept that can be taken up and embraced by someone who might not necessarily understand it but who simply wants to exploit it in order to broadcast their personal preference. (Which is some sort of link to the other current dialogue at this thread, Arpana and Frank debating matters of ‘balance’ and the perennial ‘inferior/superior’ dichotomy, beloved of the mind and emotions!).

          So I ask you again to clarify your understanding of this rather odd distinction, please.

          • Arpana says:

            @ SD,
            Must have been a nightmare being one of the kids in your class.

            I’m actually picturing myself frozen with chagrin, looking at you with your mortar and gown at the front of the class, and thinking to myself, “Oh dear God, I’ve bloody dropped myself in it again. He’s doing his dog-with-a-bone routine, and I have no way of escaping, I can’t come up with a suitable answer and I’m about to be eaten alive!”

            Namaste. :)

            • satyadeva says:

              Calm down at the back, Arpana, how many times do I have to tell you to curb that out-of-control imagination of yours? Have you learned nothing in all these years at the School of Life and Death?

              You are to remain here after school for three hours during which you are to repeat the affirmation: ‘Imagining inner turmoil, confusion and helplessness: bad, Being moment-to-moment: good’. Is that understood?!

          • frank says:

            Yes, Tom,
            Let`s get some things clear, here.
            My yoga is faster than your yoga so
            I am going to reach in less lifetimes than you are.
            My guru existed before your guru.
            I am more aware of myself than you are.
            I am more highly evolved than you are.
            I love you more than you love me.

          • VeetTom says:

            Better see the video I posted just for YOU.
            Drop your mind. Arguments don’t help.

            This board starts getting boring to me.

            In the ‘All Communes facebook’ I just read of a Ma giving blow-jobs to Osho…I may write some comments there where you may find me… maybe….

            • satyadeva says:

              Ah yes, that old “drop your mind” injunction, beloved of all manner of pseudo-spiritual con-artists to get them out of a tricky corner (unaware of the irony of themselves being one of their prime victims)…

              Likewise the “I’m bored with this, I’m going now” cop-out. As Hurree Singh* might say, “The sheer unconsciousness is TERRIFIC!”

              Enjoy your tabloidesque destination – who knows, it might even be your natural habitat….

              *Hurree Singh – one of Billy Bunter’s schoolmates.

              Come back any time, VT.

            • Arpana says:

              Veet Tom said, “This board starts getting boring to me.”

              Thank you for sharing this with us, Tom.
              I for one am horrified to know we are failing to live up to your expectations.

              • frank says:

                What`s the video?

                What does this refer to, please, Frank?

                Tom saying:
                “Better see the video I posted just for YOU.” (5.44pm today)

                Is it of you dropping your mind
                or of Osho getting blown?
                Either would qualify as `Sannyas News` surely?

                As far as we can ascertain, most unfortunately neither, Frank. I’m still ‘working’ on the former, while the latter is just too tabloid for the likes of SN and its spiritually superior class of clientele.

                Seems to be this one, posted Jan 30, 2.16pm:

  16. VeetTom says:

    Finally – just for now – a very short look at the similarities and differences, obvious to his friends and our friends…

  17. VeetTom says:

    I have been here for some time and it’s time to go now – right after this.

    Sannyas is not completely dead yet, but it stinks intensely at many places.

    You have lived safely here in your closed, undebating mind circle, discussing endlessly, blaming each other as everywhere on social media.
    Nothing new.

    Sannyas is going further down the drain.
    Save yourself.
    The end is near.

    Btw: Because you may not know it, just look for yourself in facebook’s ‘Rajneesh Communes 1974-1990′ (1,256 members).

    They are trying to gather all sannyasins on one page again. Sad song. What a loss of energy you can feel, down there, the desperation is heavy. They discuss huge amounts of sexual misuse of children in the commune and on top let a former Osho dancing girl talk about her blow-jobs on Osho.,They do not censor at all and feel to bring out the worst yet to discover.

    It really hurts to see Sannyas get fucked up there totally by mind wars.

    This is my last farewell because here there is no healing power also. Lokesh & chosen few are going down as well…sorry to admit this.

    Be seeing you somewhere in next life – those who make a new start.


      • satyadeva says:

        Yes, indeed.

        This isn’t a bad one-liner either: “Be seeing you somewhere in next life – those who make a new start.”

        A rare comic talent who was before, has been, and is…gone.

        Let us pray….

    • swamishanti says:

      “Sannyas is not completely dead yet, but it stinks intensely at many places…Sannyas is going further down the drain.”

      Ah, come on, VT, just rubbish. Sannyas is anything but dead, Sannyas is booming in India, Nepal and also popular in other countries: Japan, Russia, Italy, U.S. , South America, Australia, Europe etc. Have you had a look at the list of worldwide Osho meditation centres on the page? And that’s only the ‘official’ ones. There are hundreds more Osho centres and communes that are not officially endorsed by the IC, including larger ones such as Oshodham. Not to mention the ashrams and communes that have grown up around some of those from Osho’s lineage such as Tyohar, Samdarshi and several others.

      “Save yourself. The end is near.”
      The end is not near, unless you mean your physical demise. But you are then likely to end up appearing again in a new body.

      I mean, really, who really cares about ‘Sannyas golden past’ – in a digital format. Has Sannyas ever really been about the past?

      • frank says:

        From the Press Office of Bungabungalore Ashram:

        Like Buddha, Christ, Socrates and Brian, the tragic fate of Swami Tom is certainly the fate of every buddha who is murdered by the unconscious masses, aided and abetted by the unconscious baboons of SN!

        Having failed to convince the rational baboons of Sadhguru`s 5000 year-old holy right to dispose of wife`s body by holy fire before Police arrive, Tom himself has been forced, out of deep love, to heroically commit Sati live on SN in order to make a new start in next life!

        Swami Bhorat hails him as another hero of super-consciousness who has been ruthlessly felled on the frontline of the Mind Wars and has ordered him to be laid to rest next to Swami Brian, Dope-rage etc.

        Tom has made it clear that: “Lokesh &nchosen few are going down as well.”

        Certainly, the whole Sannyas scene is going down!
        This seems to have been inevitable since Osho`s dancing girl went down long time ago!

        Hari Om!

          • Klaus says:


            What’s gonna happen when you turn the devil down?

            The Mystery Lights

            • frank says:

              Speaking of the devil, I remember there was this guy at school, Charlie Delauney. He was the ultimate practical joker with total gift of the gab. The other kids, myself included, were in awe of him. One day, he got the biology teacher, Mr Palfrey, on a good red-herring. He managed to convince the poor fellow that he knew how to summon a devil as he had studied demonology and occultism with his uncle. Not the Devil himself but quite a powerful demon nonetheless, Charlie explained.

              Unbelievably, and to the glee of the rest of the class. Palfrey`s interest was piqued. The trickster had somehow smelt out a vulnerability in the poor chap. In a moment of insanity, Palfrey agreed to follow the lad`s instructions in order to attempt to summon a devil there and then in the classroom.

              Charlie got us all to stand up at our desks and along with Mr Palfrey, all following Charlie`s instructions, we in unison started to alternately clap, pronounce a magic word and then all stamp on the floor. We did this rhythmically, over and over again until it built into quite a sinister and noisy incantation. Mr Palfrey joined in enthusiastically but you could see he was getting a little nervous.

              “How long will it take?” he asked, glancing over at Charlie anxiously.
              Charlie, with eyes closed now and seemingly in quite a deep trance, intoned in a theatrically deep voice: “He is coming, I feel it. A little more…” The eerie chant and the rhythmic insistent banging continued as an ominous energy of foreboding started to fill the classroom.
              “He is close. Yes, he is close. I feel him arising,” Charlie cantillated with greater and greater drama and urgency as we headed for the inevitable crescendo. More tension, more stamping…
              “Yes, he is very close, he is upon us…”

              At that moment, the door of the classroom flew open and we found ourselves staring straight at a most terrifying and fearsome apparition. It was Mister Dingle, the ugliest and most unpopular teacher in the school, whose classroom was downstairs, directly underneath ours, face bright-red, eyes bloodshot and rage-distorted, he shouted, “What the bloody hell is going on in here?“

      • swamishanti says:

        Here’s the Sannyas ‘Golden Past’…

      • Arpana says:


        Look, you were right about the concentric circles. You would appear to be an arhata.

        “In the new commune we are going to have seven concentric circles of people. The first, the most superficial circle, will consist of those who come only out of childish curiosity, or out of already accumulated prejudices, who are, deep down, antagonistic — the journalists, etcetera.

        They will be allowed only to see the superficial part of the commune — not that anything will be hidden, but just because of their approach they will not be able to see anything more than the most superficial. They will see only the garments. Here also the same goes on happening. They come and they see only the superficial.

        Just the other day I was reading a journalist’s report; he was here for five days. He writes, “for five days,” as if it is a very long time to be here; five days, as if he has been here for five lives! Because he has been here for five days he has become an authority. Now he knows what is happening here because he has watched people meditating. How can you watch people meditating? Either you can meditate or not, but you cannot watch people meditating. Yes, you can watch people’s physical gestures, movements, dance, or their sitting silently under a tree, but you cannot SEE meditation! You can see the physical posture of the meditator, but you cannot see his inner experience. For that, you have to meditate, you have to become a participant.

        And the basic condition for being a participant is that you should drop this idea of being a watcher. Even if you participate, if you dance with the meditators, with this idea that you are participating only to watch what happens, then nothing will happen. And, of course, you will go with the conclusion that it is all nonsense — nothing happens. And you will feel perfectly right inside yourself that nothing happens, because you even participated and nothing happened.

        That man writes that he was in darshan and much was happening to Sannyasins — so much was happening that after a deep energy contact with me they were not even able to walk back to their places — they had to be carried away. And then he mentions, “But nothing happened to me.” That is enough proof that all that was happening was either hypnosis, or people were pretending just because the journalist was there, or it was just an arranged show, something managed — because nothing was happening to him.

        There are things which can happen only when you are available, open, unprejudiced. There are things which can happen only when you put aside your mind.

        The journalist writes again, “The people who go there, they leave their minds where they leave their shoes — but I could not do that. Of course,” he says, “if I had left my mind behind, then I would have also been impressed.” But he thinks the mind that he has is something so valuable — how can he leave it behind? He feels himself very clever because he didn’t leave his mind behind.

        Mind is the barrier, not the bridge. In the new commune, the first concentric circle will be for those who come like journalists — prejudiced people, who already know that they know. In short, for the fools.

        The second concentric circle will be for those who are inquirers — unprejudiced, neither Hindus nor Mohammedans nor Christians, who come without any conclusion, who come with an open mind. They will be able to see a little deeper. Something of the mysterious will stir their hearts. They will cross the barrier of the mind. They will become aware that something of immense importance is happening — what exactly it is they will not be able to figure out immediately, but they will become aware vaguely that something of value IS happening. They may not be courageous enough to participate in it; their inquiry may be more intellectual than existential, they may not be able to become part, but they will become aware — of course, in a very vague and confused way, but certainly aware — that something more is going on than is apparent.

        The third circle will be for those who are sympathetic, who are in deep sympathy, who are ready to move with the commune a little bit, who are ready to dance and sing and participate, who are not only inquirers but are ready to change themselves if the inquiry requires it. They will become aware more clearly of deeper realms.

        And the fourth will be the empathic. Sympathy means one is friendly, one is not antagonistic. Empathy means one is not only friendly; one feels a kind of unity, oneness. Empathy means one feels with the commune, with the people, with what is happening. One meets, merges, melts, becomes one.

        The fifth circle will be of the initiates, the Sannyasins — one who is not only feeling in his heart but who is ready to be committed, to be involved. One who is ready to risk. One who is ready to commit, because he feels a great, mad love — mad, mad love — arising in him. The Sannyasin, the initiate.

        And the sixth will be of those who have started arriving — the adepts. Those whose journey is coming closer to the end, who are no longer Sannyasins only but are becoming SIDDHAS, whose journey is coming to a full stop, is getting closer and closer to the conclusion. The home is not far away, a few steps more. In a way, they have already arrived.

        And the seventh circle will consist of ARHATAS and BODHISATTVAS. The arhatas are those Sannyasins who have arrived but are not interested in helping others to arrive. Buddhism has a special name for them: arhata — the lonely traveller who arrives and then disappears into the ultimate. And the bodhisattvas are those who have arrived but they feel a great compassion for those who have not yet arrived. The bodhisattva is an arhata with compassion. He holds on, goes on looking back and goes on calling forth those who are still stumbling in darkness. He is a helper, a servant of humanity.

        There are two types of people. The one who is at ease only when he is alone; he feels a little uncomfortable in relationship, he feels a little disturbed, distracted, in relationship. That type of person becomes an arhata. When he has arrived, he is finished with everything. Now he does not look back.

        The bodhisattva is the second type of person: one who feels at ease in relationship, in fact far more comfortable when he is relating than when he is alone. He leans more towards love. The arhata leans more towards meditation. The path of the arhata is of pure meditation, and the path of the bodhisattva is that of pure love. The pure love contains meditation, and the pure meditation contains love — but the pure meditation contains love only as a flavour, a perfume; it is not the central force in it. And the pure love contains meditation as a perfume; it is not the centre of it.
        These two types exist in the world. The second type — the follower on the path of love — becomes a bodhisattva. The seventh circle will consist of arhatas and bodhisattvas.

        Now, the seventh circle will be aware of all the six other circles, and the sixth circle will be aware of the other five circles — the higher will be aware of the lower, but the lower will not be aware of the higher. The first circle will not be aware of anything other than the first circle. He will see the buildings and the hotel and the swimming pool and the shopping centre and weaving and pottery and carpentry. He will see the trees, the whole landscape…he will see all these things. He will see thousands of Sannyassins, and he will shrug his shoulders: “What are these people doing here?” He will be a little puzzled, because he was not thinking that so many mad people can be found in one place: “All are hypnotized!” He will find explanations. He will go perfectly satisfied that he has known the commune. He will not be aware of the higher — the lower cannot be aware of the higher. That is one of the fundamental laws of life — AES DHAMMO SANANTANO — only the higher knows the lower, because he has passed from the lower.

        When you are standing on the sunlit mountain peak, you know everything down in the valley. The valley people may not be aware of you at all, it is not possible for them. The valley has its own occupations, its own problems. The valley is preoccupied with its own darkness.

        The fool can come to a master but will remain unbenefited because he will see only the outer. He will not be able to see the essential, he will not be able to see the core. The fool comes here too, but he listens only to the words — and he goes on interpreting those words according to his own ideas. He goes perfectly satisfied that he knows what is happening.

        There are many fools who don’t come here – they don’t feel the need. They simply depend on other fools’ reports. That’s enough. Just one fool can convince thousands of fools, because their language is the same, their prejudices are the same, their conceptions are the same…there is no problem! One fool has seen, and all the other fools are convinced. One fool reports in the newspaper and all the other fools read it early in the morning, and are convinced.”

        ‘The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha’, Vol 2, Chapter 7:
        ‘Does the spoon taste the soup?’)

        • frank says:

          Re the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind:
          Recent advances in occult science have uncovered several more categories that have been found to be extremely common in inner esoteric circles: Asshats, Bogussattvas. Badasssattvas, even Pedosattvas.

          Let us prey.

        • Klaus says:

          Nice one, Arpana, of the Master speaking…

          There is even a similarity in the modern world:
          Windows v 1 – 10…

          But then again, Windows doesn’t have consciousness and certainly cannot understand itself; its output can only be what somebody has put in it.


          • Arpana says:

            @ Klaus 4 February, 2022 at 12:40 pm

            I’m sure he was playing on people’s ideas about status and their standing within the Sannyas world when he said all this, whilst at the same time there being some truth in it; and occurs to me, which at the moment seems blindingly obvious, we are not all equal, in the sense of we are absolutely the same. Some will come to Sannyas with more baggage than others, but equally, it’s quite conceivable that an individual with more baggage than most might also arrive with innate qualities which enable him or her to work through the baggage faster than those with less.

            On a more mundane level, all plumbers are the same and all plumbers are different. Which is true of everybody in all walks of life.

        • swamishanti says:

          Simple sannyasin/ex-sannyasin baboons and doubting Thomases such as Frank and Lokesh are not Arhats, they belong in the first category.

          Because they have fooled themselves into believing that they know better than those with trust and experience, who were at Rajneeshpuram, the new commune (in Lokesh’s case he wasn’t), they got stuck on the Masters devices, which he intended to clear space, or they are limited to what experience they had with Osho, yet cannot accept that other sannyasins have had deeper experiences, and continue to experience.

          “And then he mentions, “But nothing happened to me.” That is enough proof that all that was happening was either hypnosis, or people were pretending just because the journalist was there, or it was just an arranged show, something managed — because nothing was happening to him.”

          • Arpana says:

            Lokesh and Frank and Shantam see themselves as non-conformists, Shanti, and they are very insecure about that identity, so they have to keep reminding everyone constantly they are non-conformists because the whole edifice of self-delusion will collapse if they don’t.

            • satyadeva says:

              Non-conforming to what exactly, Arps?

              Do such people tend to make you feel feel “insecure”?

              It might be worth bearing in mind that Osho himself, describing his ‘many lives’ of searching in many religious communities, declared that he never stayed for long in any group, he took what he needed and moved on, a quintessential “non-conformist”!

              Perhaps you could unearth that particular quote, which I think was from quite a while ago?

              • Arpana says:

                I had a feeling you would ride to their rescue!!!

                • satyadeva says:

                  Ah, but Arps, I was merely acting as a vehicle for the transmission of Osho’s message!

                  Besides, they don’t need my or anyone else’s “rescue” attempt.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Had I been asked back in the Sixties era if I was a nonconformist, I would have most definitely answered in the affirmative. Back then, it was de rigueur to be a nonconformist. If someone were to ask me today, I would answer that I have no idea if I am a nonconformist or not. It simply is not something I consider. Just the expression ‘nonconformist’ sounds a bit old-fashioned.

                  Arpana concludes that I “have to keep reminding everyone constantly” that I am a non-conformist “because the whole edifice of self-delusion would collapse” if I don’t. Really? I’m afraid I have no idea what he is talking about. “Edifice of self delusion”? Beats me. Sounds like some kind of psycho-spiritual concept, although I simply can’t relate to it.

                  I do not have a problem with insecurity…just seems like part of life to feel insecure at times…so what? The idea that feeling insecure is a ‘bad’ thing I also can’t relate to. One of my favourite book titles is ‘The Wisdom of Insecurity’ by Alan Watts. I can see that insecurity tends to arise more when thinking about the future…so I tend to try and stay more here-and-now orientated and thus do not have to deal overmuch with those gutsy feeling of anxiety and insecurity that are tied up with the future.

                  If insecurity does grab a hold of me I take note and carry on regardless. All in all, the external world is a pretty insecure place…no denying that. A few deep breaths usually takes care of that.

                • satyadeva says:

                  ‘The Wisdom of Insecurity’…I read that eagerly back in ’73, recommended by Sudha, my therapist in London at that time (who’d introduced me to dynamic med. and hence ‘Bhagwan’). The book was important to me at that memorable time of major welcome change, when life was opening up, at last, having been virtually ‘shut down’, seriously blocked, for nearly five years.

                • frank says:

                  SD asks, “Not conforming to what?”
                  The Word of the Lord, by the sound of it.
                  First we have Arps posting vids by a Xian historian who thinks that original sin is the origin of democracy.
                  Now we have Shanti posting born-again Xian cartoons.

                  It`s getting like a Jehovah`s Witness Sunday school around here.

                  Luckily, all is not lost on the enlightentertainment front as Arps is managing to throw in the odd pearl of Bhoratic wisdom like @12.19pm:
                  “On a more mundane level, all plumbers are the same and all plumbers are different. Which is true of everybody in all walks of life.”

                • Arpana says:

                  Thanks for this, Frank. Was no question Lokesh would react. He always does. Wasn’t sure you would, but you did. Gotcha as well!!!!

                • frank says:

                  Er…SN is a chat board. The idea is, someone says something, and then someone says something back and so on.

                  I know it`s a bit more complicated than watching your favourite talking head on Youtube, but I expect you`ll get the hang of it eventually.

                • Arpana says:

                  Wot Frankie Bhorat.

                  This ‘discussion’ seems more suited to the latest current thread, ‘Let’s Talk’. So please carry on over there if there’s anything worthwhile to add.

                • frank says:

                  ‘The Wisdom of Insecurity’ by Alan Watts has been mentioned. That book is still worth the occasional flick through imo.

                  Here`s a lesser-known fact about Alan Watts from an online music site:
                  “In 1962, Watts released his spiritual LP ‘This Is IT’, a rare, practically unknown release that can truly be cited as the first psychedelic record.
                  Released in Sausalito, California this album of “Alan Watts and friends in a spontaneous musical happening” is real psychedelia. It is more of a spacey, aural experience and it is impossible to grasp any structure. There is no need for structure. It is the psychedelic experience of zany instrumentation, conversation, and incantation. It is drums and chanting and evocations. It is pure psychedelic exaltation.
                  The album explores Eastern thought and sound and combines it with “controlled accidents” of sound explosions, random pockets of jazz, eerie piano, and lots of acid. It is the premier psychedelic soundscape. This is 1962 we are talking about. The Beatles haven’t even released ‘She Loves You’ yet. Jimi Hendrix was in the army.”

                • Arpana says:

                  ‘The Wisdom of Insecurity’ (Alan Watts).

                  Fear of fear. The shame that accompanies fear. Fear treated as a sign of weakness, rather than a warning, connected to survival.

                • frank says:

                  Mind you, it is fairly unlistenable.
                  Sounds all too familiar 60 years later. Like a bunch of freaks at some festival on a whacked-out shamanic weekend.

              • Arpana says:

                A synopsis of ‘The Wisdom of Insecurity’:


          • Arpana says:

            Interesting how often Osho quotes the Bible.

            The two biblical notions which still after all these years nag at me (I was an altar boy when I was seven at a little village church in Somerset) are ”Judge not lest you be judged” and ” Let he who is innocent among you cast the first stone.”

            Don’t seem like bad values to remember, even if from a Christian source.

            • swamishanti says:

              Indeed. I seem to remember that he listed one of the Bible chapters in his list of all-time favourite books. Can’t remember if it was ‘The Song of Solomon’ or ‘The Sermon on the Mount’.

              • frank says:

                It was the ‘Song of Solomon’, which has a kind of soft-core love poetry feel to it.
                “Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your stature is like that of the palm, and your breasts like clusters of fruit.” etc.

                It hasn`t got practical advice in it like:
                “No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may enter the Lord’s assembly.”
                “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ”, and so on.

                • Arpana says:

                  That you are so attuned to the sexual aspect of these verses says at last as much about you as about Osho, Frank.

                • frank says:

                  I`m not attuned to it.
                  It`s kind of clumsy and old-fashioned.
                  Sounds like something out of Monty Python, to me.

                • Arpana says:

                  @ Frank,

                  On the 6th of February 2022, Swami Shanti made a remark about Osho and ‘The Song of Solomon’ from the Bible.

                  2 hours and 11 minutes later, you quoted a steamy passage from ‘The Song of Solomon’ at Swami Shanti, which was plainly intended to denigrate Osho in some way.

                  Are you seriously trying to suggest to me you researched that passage in that time? I THINK NOT!

                  I’m fascinated to find out you have read the Bible in such depth you can quote steamy passages, and then use the steamy passage as a stick to beat Osho with.

                  I reiterate, albeit rephrased, this tells us more about you, Frank, than about Osho, including the fact you are in denial about reading the Bible and remembering the steamy bits.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Arps, you’re sounding more like an Inquisitor from the 16th century with every post! Still, I suppose it is Sunday after all….

                • swamishanti says:

                  No, it was actually ‘The Sermon on the Mount’.

                  He listed it as his seventh favourite in ‘Books I have Loved’:
                  “Seventh is ‘The Sermon on the Mount’ – only ‘The Sermon on the Mount’, not the whole Bible. The whole Bible is just bullshit except ‘The Sermon on the Mount’.”

                  But on another occasion, he said he also liked ‘The Song of Solomon’.

                • frank says:

                  Inspector Clouseau of the Inquisition alleges:
                  “You are in denial about reading the Bible and remembering the steamy bits.”
                  Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

                  It must be 70s comedy night on the ‘Yesterday’ channel!

        • swamishanti says:

          “And the fourth will be the empathic. Sympathy means one is friendly, one is not antagonistic. Empathy means one is not only friendly; one feels a kind of unity, oneness. Empathy means one feels with the commune, with the people, with what is happening. One meets, merges, melts, becomes one.”

          Looking forward to this comic novel coming out.

      • Arpana says:

        @ Shanti,

        Occurs to me there is something very similar to how Sannyas is nowadays to the 70s. And what I mean by that, first of all, is that we were actually invisible in the 70s; and became more visible, in part because there were so many more of us in the 80s, and more specifically because we had become so notorious.

        Seems to me there are more people involved in Sannyas now than then, and more widespread, spread across all generations possible; however, the ‘vibe’ of Sannyas is very different because of being spread out across the generations and in the 70s, and 80s as well, it was predominantly 20-somethings.

        • swamishanti says:

          Yeah. Sannyasins were easily recognisable to the general public by their shades of red and orange and malas, yet this changed after 1986.

          With the street presence less visible, the scene become undercover. And although as you say, there are actually more sannyasins around today than when Osho was still embodied, and more taking Sannyas each year.

          Sannyasins clad in maroon robes can be found surrounding the streets of Koregaon Park , Osho Nisarga in Dharamsala and other Osho places, but almost everywhere else they are hidden.

          I have actually spoken to various people involved with other spiritual paths who were surprised that Osho sannyasins are still around today. This is likely to be not just because of the less visible profile of sannyasins, but also because of some of the hostility and innacuracies in the media ,a lot of misunderstanding, some childish ex-sannyasins who like to hold on to Osho and have spread their moaning crap around the internet , and general misunderstanding of Osho’s vision.
          There are also of course many millions of Osho lovers around today who are just well into the books and videos.

  18. kavita says:

    “They are trying to gather all sannyasins on one page again. Sad song. What a loss of energy you can feel, down there, the desperation is heavy. They discuss huge amounts of sexual misuse of children in the commune and on top let a former Osho dancing girl talk about her blow-jobs on Osho. They do not censor at all and feel to bring out the worst yet to discover.”

    Now look who’s complaining!

    “Seems you have lived safely in your closed, un-debating mind circle…”!

    Sorry, no next life with you or anybody for me.

    Wish you the best in the now always!

  19. satchit says:

    @ VeetTom

    Don’t worry, be happy !

  20. Klaus says:


    Sometimes my mind speaks to me with music…

    That’s the song that comes up today:

    “Folsom Prisom Blues” – Johnny Cash

    The reactions of the inmates seem remarkable.

    Gotta raise the spirits somehow.


  21. frank says:

    “The end is near.”
    It`s probably true.
    Clinging onto superheroes and their superpowers is just delaying the inevitable, unless you want to end up believing in Father Xmas the rest of your life.

    Btw, Santa was a bit of a kinky devil too. All that coming down the chimney everywhere he went.

  22. Arpana says:

    I always find articles like this a bit disconcerting, but on this occasion, went on to say to myself, ”not around me.” The individuals with sannyas names I mixed with were a straightlaced lot, especially in the west, a far cry from libertines, out-of-control hedonists.

  23. satchit says:

    If something goes wrong in the life of the kids, they always blame it on the parents.

    No matter if the parents have been in a cult or not.

    • satyadeva says:

      They often do, Satchit, but not always.

      In many cases the parents in question should arguably never have had children, having too many problems themselves, which certtainly seems to apply in this case.

      Although on the other hand, the children of such parents presumably ‘deserved’ their situation, in karmic terms, as their particular ‘load’ to endure, suffer from and, if possile, understand, and rise above.

      • frank says:

        It seems to be the journo writing the article that is apportioning blame, it`s not clear if that is an accurate reflection of the book itself.

        Btw, what is meant by “The cult of the father”?
        Is that an implication that fathers are de facto cult leaders?

        • satyadeva says:

          I assume the title’s taken from the assumption that many ‘cult’ members, certainly the author of the book, view their leader as an idealised father-figure, their actual father either having been ‘absent’, literally or metaphorically; either case leaving a significant void needing to be adequately filled.

          I recall almost the first words ‘Bhagwan’ said to me were, “You have much anger against your father”, followed by advice to “beat and bite a pillow like a child in a tantrum” whenever I felt angry. Which I made efforts to do, although it was impossible in public situations and also tricky where I was staying, my hotel room being far from soundproof.

          Moreover, complaints from the ashram’s neighbours had silenced the catharthic stage of dynamic meditation just before I’d arrived in Pune and there were no facilities there yet for personal or group use, all of which was disappointing as dynamic had been hugely important for me in London, its benefits drawing me to imagined ‘more and better’ close to the master in India.

          • frank says:

            I guess Osho was the `dad you never had`, in a way for a lot of us.
            But then that`s probably true of God in general.

            Whether Lily Dunn the author blames her dad or not, on a narrative level, he certainly left her with a wealth of material. Abuse victim/perpetrator, sex addict, drug addict, alcoholic, family breakdown, charmer, Dionysian hustler with a sense of humour, fraudster, liar, cult-member. Phew! It`s a publisher`s dream, no mistake!

            Is that bad `karma` or good `karma` for Lily?
            Back to the old story of the Chinese man and his horses, I guess.

            • Arpana says:

              Enormous kudos in being a victim these days. Society is in the process of being reorganised into a hierarchy of victimhood.

              Eventually, the American President will be chosen, by those who decide such matters, on the basis of their victimhood. The individual ”they” decide is the most victimised individual in the States at that time will be made President.

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