The Psychology of a Wounded Sikh and Sannyasin

Shantam Iqbal Singh (aka Swami Shantam Prem), a prolific, long-time contributor to Sannyas News, reflects on his 32 years’ experience of Sannyas. (He chose the title of this article).

He writes:
Before I say long-term goodbye to Sannyas News, let me write one self- reflecting article. As it is said, there is no smoke without fire.
If western seekers don’t understand the undercurrents of the multi-facets of the Indian mind, they will not do justice to their own search on the path created by an Indian.

I love the story of a caged Elephant sheding tears of rage, waiting for death or freedom.
I also love the story of an Elephant who did not budge from his place when an inferno in the forest brought a fearful rabbit under his shadow..

As a social identity, my deepest reverence is for my Sikh heritage where masters and disciples sacrificed their life fighting against invaders who were hell-bent to destroy liberal ethos of India.
 
I recite every evening the Sikh prayer, where we wish peace, harmony and prosperity for everyone and remember the sacrifices of masters and fellow-disciples by saying, “Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru….”.

‘Waheguru’ means “O, glorious, mysterious, wonderful Lord, invisible yet visible in each and every atom..”

When this Sikh young man started wearing Orange with Mala of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, it was a shockwave in my community. I knew thousands of Sikhs as well as Hindus felt hurt..
 
I remember one young man telling me in December 1985 after the assassination of Indira Gandhi and the subsequent massacre of Sikhs, he felt even more hurt to see me in this Rajneeshi garb.
I assured him, “Look at my turban, when thousands of Sikhs have removed their turbans out of fear I wear an orange turban as defiance and will die with my Sikh identity. I will stay with my miniority community in good times and  bad times. I am more proud to be a Skh than anything else.”

He was convinced because he knew my activities; it was news in my town, that during ‘Operation Bluestar’ I started crying in the Gurudwara.

Sikhs don’t cry – I cried; this I have learned from my contemporary master: Men do cry, strong men also weep.

For the last 32 years I have maintained a balance between two polarities:.
It is the warrior Sikh in me who fights against the treachery and deceptions of His ‘Chosen Few’, they honey- trapped an innocent Indian mystic into their web of lies and psychopharma.

I am enraged to see the decline of a master from my land who had the capacity and vision to share the best of Indian warmth with cold-blooded, heady civilization holding the human heart to ransom.

I didn’t go to OR for Enlightenment. If there is some ultimate state of being I won’t take  it from anyone. First of all,  no one can give this and if someone can give it I will get it from my Sikh path.

When I hear an Indian saying, “Osho is everywhere”,  I say in me, “Wonderful. My Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh must be also everywhere!”
 
I feel immense love for Christians and Muslims who have always maintained their prophet. has no past, is never born, never dies, only visited the planet to wash our sins with his blood and share the message of God; as if Neo-Sannyas managers stole their idea and gave a modern word formation one learns in the brand management industry.

Master has ripped off beliefs of others. In a just and fair way, I cannot be part of the Belief Circus of medieval times.

P.S: In a nutshell I can say honestly, I have not become a sannyasin because of personal Charisma of Osho Rajneesh, whether He was promoting himself as greatest soul walking on earth after Gautama Siddhartha or being promoted as “Never Born, Never Died” kind of healthy Covid, it was His vision for a better human society, “The New Man”, which took me over.  His commune was that lab, a modern day church and research facility.  Our job as disciples was to cover the loopholes.

 

 




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82 Responses to The Psychology of a Wounded Sikh and Sannyasin

  1. satchit says:

    Shantam, when I read this, then I have the impression you are a Sikh, not a sannyasin.

    Why not be honest and be finished with your fake Sannyas identity after 32 years and start wearing a turban again?

    • Satchit, the above article is a honest reflection about the background i came from into Neo Sannyas, that too during master´s life time and also when his flagship Rajneeshpuram was drowning like titanic.
      The first generation sannyasins have some kind of past, they are the products of various cultural influences and collective minds.
      What so ever may be the reason, we have taken a conscious decision to trust a new person.
      What astonishes me the most in the sannyas is, people simply don´t accept their collective conditioning. It is silly and arrogant both.
      No wonder, Neo Sannyas Failed in the long run.
      There are many lessons to learn from the rise and fall of Orange Movement.

  2. Lokesh says:

    Shantam’s article is as mixed-up as the 21st Century. I can only conclude that he is confused. Mid-life crisis? Identity crisis? From a distance, one can only speculate. It’s anyone’s guess what exactly his problem is. Yes, he definitely has a problem. About one of the only things that can be taken as assured after reading his short essay.

    Then we have the hyperbole, a good example of which would be the following:
    “When this Sikh young man started wearing Orange with Mala of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, it was a shockwave in my community. I knew thousands of Sikhs, as well as Hindus, felt hurt.”
    I sincerely doubt that Shantam carried the capacity to influence and impact thousands of Sikhs and Hindus on a negative emotional level, simply because he wore orange clothes and a mala. The question arises, who does he think he is? It would appear he does not know the answer to this himself. His identity seems to be based entirely on external reflections.

    Shantam claims, “For the last 32 years I have maintained a balance between two polarities.” Yet I do not detect anything remotely balanced about his psychological state. For a start, why get involved with a guru who was completely against organized religion, while maintaining a firm affiliation with an organized religion? It just does not make any sense. It sounds like nonsense. Osho encouraged his people to drop the past, yet Shantam clings to the past like a barnacle on the hull of a supertanker.

    Shantam the valiant Sikh warrior, fighting the malign forces of the invading foreigners. This harks back to ancient times when the Sikhs fought off Muslim invaders who desecrated their holy of holies, the Golden Temple in Armritsar, on countless occasions. Now, Shantam continues this fight by taking on the people who run the Resort in Poona. He sees himself as a regular one-man-army who will one day vanquish the evildoers who, according to Shantam, “honey-trapped an innocent Indian mystic into their web of lies and psychopharma.” I can think of a number of adjectives to describe Osho, but “innocent” is not one of them. There was little or nothing innocent about Osho and he never claimed that he was, except when the shit hit the fan in Oregon and the FBI arrested him.

    Shantam concludes by stating, “I cannot be part of the Belief Circus of medieval times.” Yet much of what he says is based on a belief system put into place by Guru Nanak over 500 years ago, on the cusp of the Middle Ages. Reciting Sikh prayers, an identification with being some kind of Sikh warrior, gaining enlightenment from following the Sikh path if deemed necessary.

    As Shantam says correctly, there is no smoke without fire. The smoke from his fire smells of damp wood, withered leaves and concepts that have passed their sell-by dates a very long time ago.

  3. frank says:

    confused
    /kənˈfjuːzd/
    adjective
    1 (of a person) unable to think clearly.
    2. lacking order and so difficult to understand.
    3. not in possession of all one’s mental faculties.

    Similar: muddled, addled, befuddled, disoriented
    (all) at sea, unbalanced, demented, unhinged, senile, vague, unclear, indistinct, imprecise,
    blurred, hazy, woolly, foggy, dim, sketchy, obscure.

    Opposite: lucid, precise.

  4. Klaus says:

    Shants,

    What is special about Bhagwan as a master?

    His lectures went roundabout to every – of the major ones – path and their offerings for the individual. He himself offered – mostly – non-traditional practices and de-conditioning therapies imo to the same end.

    Most of us have left some traditional religious path as it (possibly) wasn’t attractive in their form of practice, teaching/preaching/sermons and also the representatives. Maybe some of these just did not make sense to the freedom-loving and discerning person.

    I made a simplified drawing describing the above concept, see attached.

    We can choose what is appealing to us. So: no regrets whatsoever.

    We can also choose to study the various paths in the form of ‘comparative religion’: to this end, I recommend the books of Huston Smith who was also a practitioner of Yoga, LSD and else.

    One may also prefer practice to books.

    Me feels Guru Nanak is a wonderful person.

    I wish you well.

  5. frank says:

    Now that Wounded Sikh Syndrone, caused by the Terminally Obfuscating Sikh Syndrome Retrovirus(TOSSER), to give it its full medical appellation, has been established as a genuine and serious problem, I wonder, has anyone had this ailment?
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jan/13/india-syndrome-lost-in-the-valley-of-death-harley-rustad

    • Lokesh says:

      Hi Frank,
      I read the article. Reminded me of the time I ran the sannyasin meditation centre in Chapora, Goa, back in the mid-seventies. People would bring flip-outs to the centre to see if they could be helped in some way.

      Many were acid casualties, but not all. One woman in particular had cut her breasts open with a tin can. She’d undergone a non-drug related nervous breakdown. Her parents had to fly in from Paris to collect her. I did what I could for the acid casualties, by supplying love, patience and kindness. Sometimes it helped. Sometimes not and the really crazy ones ended up in Panjim’s mental hospital, which I don’t imagine would have been much fun.

      • frank says:

        Loke, you reminded me, “India Syndrome” was already a recognised condition back in the day, under the diagnostic label: “Flip-out”.

        The `syndrome` must have had a pedigree going back at least to the colonial days with the old “Doolally Tap”. That entered the popular consciousness. When I was a kid, people still used to use the word “tapper” for crazy-guy. Although they reckon that ‘tap’ comes from an Urdu word for fever, I remember being told that the tap was the rubber-stamp they put on the unfortunate`s ID when they certified him insane.

        Reminds me of when I was still living at home as a teen, I had taken some acid trips and decided I had to go to India. My brother grassed to my mum and dad about the acid. They got freaked out and got me to go to see a psychiatrist.

        At the appointment, I chatted with the psychiatrist for a while and it turned out he had spent time in India himself. “India can be a lonely place,” he said, suddenly turning glum and reflective, “especially in the monsoon…the rain…the silence” and drifted off into some quite depressing-sounding reminiscence; he had obviously had a weird time there. Maybe he was stationed in Deolali, although I expect he wasn`t stupid and realised not much was going to happen, he just needed to fill the hour and get his payment.

        When I came out of his office, my dad, who had been waiting nervously outside, said, “Well?”
        I said: “I think he`s a bit mental.” My poor dad, bless his soul, went ballistic!

        • frank says:

          Whether it be on the freaky frontline of Goa`s beaches or the lot of immigrants or refugees of all stripes, I think it is quite widely understood that the disorientation of spending extended time/living in a foreign/alien culture can take its toll on the mental health for many.

          Maybe, Shantam, you are also largely suffering from some kind of homesickness/alienation?

          I think it`s a pity that you are so bogged down in a religious/cultic/sect-warfare mind-set, as I can imagine that living as an Indian in Germany must have been in some measure very interesting and thrown up more unusual and amusing stories than the somewhat tedious “Oshoites versus Sunniasins” and “Spirtual cowboys v. spiritual Indians” tropes that seems to have occupied you on SN?

          • Klaus says:

            Frank,

            I like your heartfelt and open-minded comment. To me, it shows empathy and feeling love.

            In Germany, as there is health insurance for everyone, there is a good chance for highly-qualified psychotherapy that suggests itself. Imo, that could be a great opportunity to work through unresolved emotional stuff with an uninvolved person. Without relying on ‘groups’. I did that, too.

            • frank says:

              Klaus, I don`t know about empathy, I was just trying to move it on a bit from the old religious bigotry broken record!

              I don`t think Shantam would be able to do any one-to-one psychotherapy at all. Having to make a sequence of statements that cohered and made sense would be too great an obstacle!

              • Klaus says:

                Yeah, I get it.
                Good move away from the “broken record”.

                Isn’t Sannyas also about sympathy with the plights we all have to go through?
                And being helpful by giving one or the other impulse?

                Ah.

                I feel like this kangaroo:

  6. satchit says:

    My feeling is that something doesn’t fit with the numbers in this story.

    He talks about “32 years’ experience of sannyas.”
    Now we have 2022. So he must have taken Sannyas around 1990.

    But then he talks about a “young man telling him in December 1985 after the assassination of Indira Gandhi…he felt more hurtto see him in the Rajneesh garb.”

    Sounds a bit strange.

    Btw, the assassination of Indira Gandhi by two Sikh bodyguards was in October 1984.

  7. Thanks, Faceless Frank, for the article link in the ‘Guardian’ about India Syndrome. It fits with you and all other foreigners who changed their names to Indian ones.

    May fairness of life give an Indian birth to all these homesick Swamis and Mas, who under the influence of an Indian wordsmith uprooted themselves and then came back to the same socially secured system created by their sleepy fellow-citizens.

    Article is so profound, I have donated two euros to support the ‘Guardian’. I will buy also the latest book published.

    About the reactions to my article, I will roast in the further posts.

    To be true, not a single comment is written with intelligence but pissed mind frozen. This article is therefore a right reminder to look inside; few addicted became peddlers and think this is their achievement!

    • Lokesh says:

      I can now add cynicism and arrogance to confused in my description of Shantam’s character.
      He says, “India Syndrome fits with you and all other foreigners who changed their names to Indian ones.”

      What a narrow-minded and cynical notion. I can say for certain that this idea does not fit with my ten-year-long India experience. Despite the fact that India is a filthy country in general, I loved India.

      Shantam concludes with the following:
      “To be true, not a single comment is written with intelligence but pissed mind frozen. This article is therefore a right reminder to look inside; few addicted became peddlers and think this is their achievement!”

      The article in question comes across as being written by someone who is completely stupid to the point of being proud of the fact. The article is indeed a reminder. It reminds me that Osho allowed fools to join the sannyasin ranks. Once more, Shantam’s racist tendencies spring to the fore. That is indeed an ugly aspect of his character.

      Shantam comes across as being proud to have been born in India. There is nothing to feel proud about in exhibiting pride. Meanwhile, having to emigrate to Germany to eke out a living from a predominantly caucuasian society, a white society.

      That is one of the things I loved about India. There was little or no racism directed towards me in an open way. One would think Shantam would have learned this openness to foreigners from his fellow countrymen instead of despising them.

      I sincerely doubt Guru Nanak would have encouraged his followers to adopt such a stance towards foreigners. So much for Shantam’s image of himself being a Sikh warrior, fighting the good fight. A more deluded picture of himself one could not imagine.

      As civil rights activist Angela Davis once said, “In a racist society, it is not enough to be non-racist. We must be anti-racist.”

      The fact that Shantam exhibits racist tendencies is something I find difficult to accept.

      • It seems my arrow went in the right direction.
        When intellect is not fully developed it plays the Race card.
        So good to see, when others are attacking whites for being racist, I am being accused by the woks!

        Racist tendencies are very natural, because all have their own strengths and weaknesses.
        It will be really great if some Afro-American creates Nivea with black cream. They cannot. Kanye West can surely finance black cream for white skin!

      • Klaus says:

        Thanks, Lokesh, for taking this resolute stance.

        I am really lacking words for what is going on.

        Wishing you all a nice day and weekend:))

        • frank says:

          “Racism is very natural” says Swami Shantam, wounded Sikh freedom fighter and deeply religious man.

          Here`s a different view:
          https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/new-evidence-that-racism-isnt-natural/263785/

          • Lokesh says:

            Quite so, Frank. What puzzles me is what prompts Shantam to make such an ass of himself? Is it a simple case of needing to draw attention to himself at any cost?

            I daresay no Sikh organization would welcome a racist fool like him into their ranks. It says much for SN that it is open enough to let Shantam post his stupid shite here.

            He says that it is time for him to say goodbye to SN. Going by his current output nobody will miss him because it is just too warped. Of course, Shantam is delusional enough to believe that he is a Sikh warrior, valiantly promoting the truth, or some such nonsense.

            • Klaus says:

              “…it says much for SN….”

              Correct. And according to my guts he has enjoyed enough of the goodwill granted.

              Time for him to cancel his Sannyas account here.

              • frank says:

                At discourse in Bungabungalore ashram this morning, Anand Yogi asked Swami Bhorat for his thoughts about the psychology of wounded Sikh Sannyasins.

                Swami Bhorat looked somewhat bored, then raising his right arm, he curled the fingers of his right hand into a loose fist and moved the hand back and forth for a few moments.

                Certainly, where words fail, a simple time-honoured mudra can tell whole truth!

                Yahoo!

            • satchit says:

              You have also your part in the game, Lokesh.

              You push his button – he pushes yours.

              Ego-Games.
              Where do you see racism?

              • Klaus says:

                Buttons pushed. Ego.

                Ok.

                Question is, are we going to remain at that?

                Where is letting go?
                Understanding?
                Intelligence?
                Clarity?

                Imo, Shantam has made a wise decision in wanting to leave this forum.

                We should help him with this.

                Out of clarity:
                Meditation is not his cup of tea.
                He is using the internet to control his negativity.
                His mind is continuously ‘out there’.

                He should do his out-of-the-box thing in the outside world.

                Cheers.

      • satchit says:

        I would not call Shantam a racist.
        Maybe he has nationalistic tendencies, this is something else.

        To be honest I never perceived BHAGWAN as an Indian, but certainly he is.

        • Lokesh says:

          If nationalists possess racist tendencies toward foreigners of colour, how much better do they feel toward their fellow countrymen who don’t happen to look like them? One can hear the dog whistle blow. Are even maintaining borders racist? And what’s with artificial boundary lines? One world government would fix that.

          Mother Nature created us to be drawn to our own kind. Birds of a feather flock together. But should we be content to follow our most base instincts? Let’s strive to reach a higher plane of moral existence whereby we value and are attracted to the Other — learn from them, be enriched by them.

          Except…no. Mother Nature isn’t a racist — just amoral. People are amoral in many respects; we are creatures of nature. But unlike the rest of the animal kingdom, we have the mental capacity to reason on a much higher intellectual level. We hunger and search for that which is greater than ourselves. For some, this greater power is a deity.

  8. If races are not a reality and have distinctive qualities, what is the need for Nicola Sturgeon to play referendum card? There are not even 6 million Scots, Pune as a city has double the population.

    During my pre-graduation years, while studying science subjects, one question was haunting my heart: “Is there any subject where Indians have some remarkable contribution in its development?”
    Physics, Chemistry, Maths and then Economics – every single theory, formula and principle is coming from the western brain.

    If I was racist at heart I would have ignored their contribution by playing defensive line that in the ancient times, my Indian ancestors have discovered zero that Ganesha´s elephant head was the first surgery performed by an Indian, that war technology was hyper-developed five thousand years ago, that Gautma Siddharth´s father was such a rich king there were automatic water fountains. And women around Young Siddhartha were wearing far finer designer clothes than princesses of England!

    My heart was calmed when I saw the photos of westerners around Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. If there were only Indians around the master, as it is now, I would not have gone at all to that Jaina preacher! For what?

    It is pity those who came to Him dig the grave of his vision.
    Have we ever heard, world goes to the West to learn religion and language of the heart?

    Master became victim of his misplaced trust on the false chips.

    • Klaus says:

      One can “learn religion and language of the heart”.

      But then at some point one has to let go of the neurosis, too.

      False chips? Names?

    • frank says:

      This is simply logorrhoea,

    • satchit says:

      This is your imagination, Shantam, that somebody “did dig the grave of his vision”.

      Btw, there is a Sikh Community close to Europa-Park. Have you been there?

    • satyadeva says:

      “My heart was calmed when I saw the photos of westerners around Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. If there were only Indians around the master, as it is now, I would not have gone at all to that Jaina preacher! For what?”

      Sounds, Shantam, as if you allowed yourself to be seduced by what you regarded as the ‘glamour’ of the West (perhaps particularly all those lovely, possibly potentially available young women?). While bathing in the reflected glory of a fellow-Indian which thereby conferred a certain imagined prestige, self-importance upon you as you eventually eagerly embraced life at the multi-national, ‘sexually-free’ ashram.

      What conventional education, degree or career could provide such benefits? You thought you had it made, that Osho and his people would be your home for ever, providing a nice, comfortable yet pleasantly stimulating life where ‘spiritual growth’ (or your concept of that) would somehow just follow, nothing for you to be too concerned about. As an Indian, your value, status and place were assured. Or so you thought…

      Have you ever considered such assumptions might have been misplaced? Given that you’ve become a toxic mixture of anger, grief and blame, the answer appears to be no.

      Nevertheless, I’ll ask you again:
      Is there anything in your experience of Sannyas for which you’re positively grateful?

  9. kavita says:

    “It reminds me that Osho allowed fools to join the sannyasin ranks.” 

    Yes, Lokie, perhaps that’s the only compassion a master can have, otherwise there is no need of any compassion!

  10. “Is there anything in your experience of Sannyas for which you’re positively grateful?”

    I think it is a good theme to start a new string on 19th January, ‘Grateful for Bhagwan’. You, SD, can be the initiator of this article, it is long overdue, you create an article instead of playing supporting role to make Lokesh shine as Hero.

    I have written “Grateful for Bhagwan” consciously as presumably all of the gentlemen here were in the class of Bhagwan, Osho is simply one heresay they have adopted and accepted as part of mob mind.

    In a way, Sheela is much more an aware and honest lady to address her one & only and the ex-guru as ‘Bhagwan’.

    There are numerous reasons for me to be thankful to Master and His vision of global community. I would like to explain that in the new article; as I suggested, written by you, SD. If you need some help in arranging sentences and paragraphs in a cohesive order, you can ask Lokesh or me.

    I will even ask him to give me his professional help in creating one compilation, ‘Notes of a Misfit Sannyasin’.

    • satyadeva says:

      Shantam, many years of persistent moaning and complaining, playing the ‘hard done by victim’ card over and over again has qualified you for a “long overdue” statement of gratitude in order to create, hopefully, a more balanced version of your Sannyas ‘career’.

      So this is your chance to set the record straight, primarily for your benefit, perhaps to see that you don’t always need to be consumed by negativity vis-a-vis over 32-plus years of your precious life. Take a break, for God’s sake, from poisoning yourself.

      Remind yourself of some good news, for once, please. (You might start, for instance, by acknowledging that you’re in pretty good health, that you have decent housing and have enough to eat. As well as having had plenty of experiences that relatively few Indians can hope for).

      But it’s up to you, not to me or anyone else to spoon-feed you ideas. A relevant article or statement needs to come wholly (holy?!) from you.

      • Very lame duck excuse, SD, from your side, as if writing an article on Gratitude is a punishment.

        Articles must not be lengthy pieces on a site where readers are invited to share their opinions and views. One can write an article just with few sentences. Let me give an example:

        When the death anniversary of Osho Rajneesh is approaching, I feel a sense of gratitude for giving me a new, meaningful name. When most of our western names are just sounds, to feel a divine messenger of truth has uplifted my spirit.

        It is more than 40 years now, still it feels as of today, when The Teacher explained me the meaning of my name, he was well aware it is not my mother language and I wouldn´t learn this foreign language also.

        He knew the future!

        • satyadeva says:

          What you don’t appear to realise yet, Shantam, is that your habitual, overwhelmingly negative mind-set on display here and elsewhere is itself a form of profound self-punishment, however much you like to pretend otherwise.

          You’re being offered an opportunity to publicly reflect upon whatever good you’ve experienced via Sannyas and you regard that as a “punishment”? Maybe you have wasted all those years after all….

        • Lokesh says:

          Shantam states, “Most of our western names are just sounds.”
          This is completely untrue. As an example I will supply the meanings of my given name.

          First name indicates the area in the north of Scotland where I was born.
          Second name has its roots in Gaius, an archaic Latin name and one of the earliest Roman praenomina. The only known original Roman etymology of Gaius is expressed as a gaudio parentum, meaning that the name Gaius stems from the Latin verb gaudere (“to rejoice”, “to be glad”).
          My third name is an English translation of an archangel’s name. Very holy!

          • And you have not written that name, what does it show?

          • frank says:

            Loke,
            Yeah, but facts don`t fit into bigotry.
            In this case, “western names are uncultured and meaningless, unlike highly spiritual Indian names”.

            It`s Swami Bhorat type stuff all the way.

            Amazing.

            • frank says:

              Shantam, haven`t you got any other hobbies apart from religious bigotry?
              Maybe it`s time to branch out?
              Take a tip from Sam and do something active and interesting.
              Have you tried juggling? Neuroscientists say that it is far better than meditation for positive development of the white and grey matter of the brain, plus it`s great fun.
              Why not give it a go?

              • I accept suggestions from the people with real face, not just names. I am very western in this sense, they don´t get initiated in the name of No Real Person in front.

                Anyway, writing an article requires more brain-juggling than typing a reaction. Why not you, Mr. Faceless Frank of British origin, write a comprehensive article about Gratitude? India, the land where you can live with UK`s job seeker’s allowance!

                • Klaus says:

                  For Satchit (re his 8.29 post today)…

                  1. Indian
                  2. Human
                  3. Sannyasin
                  4. Sikh

                  Or was it the other way round?

                  Indians got promoted, too, not to forget.

                • frank says:

                  Shantam, I am not on jobseeker’s allowance or any benefits at all. Whereas you have made it clear that at the same time that you spout your bigoted anti-western rubbish, you collect free money handouts from the German govt.

                  No wonder you feel so shit about your life, having to beg off people you look down on.

                  If Indian and Sikh cultures are so wonderfully spiritual then why not go back there?
                  You wouldn`t because you would do nothing but complain there, too!
                  And feel superior to those living there because you have lived in the West!

                  If you think that being a wank-fantasy keyboard Sikh warrior is some kind of compensation for the mess you find yourself in, then good luck to you. Your choice.

                • satchit says:

                  Sorry, Klaus, maybe you have misunderstood something.

                  Just a question:
                  When and where did you take Sannyas?

                  Did it happen because of a book or because of a sannyasin?

                • satyadeva says:

                  Here’s something for you to ponder upon, Shantam. I recommend 5 or 6 minutes beginning at 24 mins. especially from around 25 mins.40 secs.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpaMvjqgEo

                • Klaus says:

                  Satchit,

                  I took Sannyas after practising meditation in India and Myanmar.

                  Are you in the mood to answer my question?

                • satchit says:

                  Klaus,

                  What year?

                  Depends on the question.

                • Klaus says:

                  And it happened because of me, a few Sannyasins and Kathmandu RMC….

            • Lokesh says:

              Yes, Frank. A few friends have been doing DNA testing to see what gene pools they are related to. One friend did it and found out she had been adopted. Last week she travelled to USA to meet her biological parents and hook up with brothers and sisters she never knew she had. Seems she had a blast.

          • Lokesh says:

            Shantam, “And you have not written that name, what does it show?”

            It illustrates that you are talking nonsense again. Many western names have ancient religious significance…you can ask John and Mary about it.

            • Loke, if you go beyond your limited perception, I am not making fun of western names, the culture and values. I love them, respect them.

              My punch is for all those who dropped their names to get new ones from an Indian mystic/master/teacher.

              This name-changing cult lost its mojo within one generation time; there is a natural curiosity and study to understand why.

              When an umbrella goes broken in a season, one asks what went wrong, when price too was very high and it was written: “Better than all others.”

              • Klaus says:

                Ah, Shantam-without-a-name- change,

                Can you describe the limits of your perception?

                No evidence needed.

              • satyadeva says:

                It’s perhaps not such a mystery, Shantam. These names (and the malas and orange) were part of Osho’s effort to cut through our conditioning, a way to help disassociate our minds from their old identities, to make a new start, evidence to ourselves, not just to others, that we were now committed to Osho’s spiritual way(s).

                Don’t forget, Osho was a trailblazer, and his people were stepping into the unknown in the 70s, even in the 80s too, the spiritual scene was new for a new, post-war generation, which needed all the help it could get. That much you surely already know.

                But all ‘devices’ have their time and place, and after many years some or many sannyasins (and I suspect it’s far fewer than you appear to assume) may have decided these particular ones were no longer necessary, whether or not they still regarded Osho as their inspiration/friend/guide/master.

                Times change, people (hopefully) evolve, and what was needed before is not necessarily a requirement now. Sannyas isn’t just another fixed structure, with all habits and rituals set in stone, much as certain minds might well prefer it to be otherwise (no names mentioned, of course, Shantam!).

        • Klaus says:

          You did not manage to leave out the negativity.
          Let alone the tendency to insult others.

          That is avoidance and copping out.

          That is lame. In my eyes.

  11. samarpan says:

    I just read a book which seems relevant.

    ‘BLISS OUT’ by Francesco Gatti
    https://book.blissout.co/get-it

    This year I am celebrating 40th neo-sannyas birthday. Perfectly happily!

    “It is your decision. Always remember, whatsoever happens here is your decision. If you are a sannyasin, it is your decision. If you drop sannyas, it is your decision. If you take it again, it is your decision. I leave everything to you.” (Osho) https://neosannyas.org

    • Klaus says:

      Congrats for your happy anniversary, Samarpan!

      Anything that makes meditation simple and easy is certainly welcome in this modern world. Positive thinking will help, too. I guess.

    • frank says:

      Sam, agreed.
      All these so-called spiritual types sitting on their asses professing to be “watching their mind” might as well be sitting there smelling their own farts for all the good it does them.

      And people like Shantam need to get their big, fat, entitled arses out there and do some exercise by the sound of it.

      Privileged wankers complaining about their lot?
      It`s difficult to top that in the utterly-boring stakes.

      Today is a good day.

  12. satchit says:

    As an Indian one can think, what my Indian brother has done, I can do too.

    Problem is: Not every Indian is a professor of philosophy who knows how to speak in front of an audience.

    Neo-Sannyas was a brilliant idea to dress hippies in uniform and send them back to the West for promotion.

    • Klaus says:

      Satchit,

      There was a misunderstanding.

      My question was what is your identification today?
      1. Human
      2. Sannyasin
      3. Indian
      4.
      5.

      If there are identifications at all. Maybe there are just roles one plays nowadays.

      • satchit says:

        Klaus. Identification?

        Depends on what I think of me.

        • Klaus says:

          Yes.
          And what do you first think you are as a person?

          I am not hankering to create boundaries.
          I am not hankering for fights.
          Intellectual or others.
          I am not hankering for division.
          I am not hankering to be a Sannyasin or whatever creed, shape or other name we give it.

          Samadhi. That is interesting. How to get there.
          Wisdom. Ah. Good. Understanding of something or someone. Insights. Out of biographical events.
          Even consciousness. If it so happens.

          If these are not the main topics here then what?
          Self-righteousness? Bossy leadership without meditation?

          Thank you very much.

          Sab kuch milega.

  13. kavita says:

    As an observer, most observations reveal a Nationalist mind needs a specific physical area with demarcated borders to be protected from real/unreal external forces & a Religious mind needs a body form/physical image & a specific ritual to carry on their daily needs; that is the root cause of all inevitable national/religious conflict.

    Probably, Osho’s religion turned out to be paradox of his real vision.

    Probably, Osho’s Zen story of “a hundred travelling & only one reaching” is based on human reality!

  14. kavita says:

    SD, Osho’s ‘religionless religion’ has attracted a lot of nationalistic & orthodox religious- minded people in the name of neo-Sannyas, probably more so due to the ongoing property case, with an emphasis only on external celebration, which is contrary to Osho’s Vision.

    I am sure those who don’t agree with me are entitled to have their opinion about version of Osho’s Vision.

    As Lokesh mentioned, perhaps there are many levels at which one needs a Master.

  15. Hopefully someone regular or other will write a piece to commemorate 19th January, the day of Master leaving the body in a meritoriously planned way or abruptly….

    • satyadeva says:

      Not if it’s just another rehash of pointless speculation, Shantam.

      • It is not speculation but inspiring provocation.

        Also a reminder, writing an article is not like commenting. Articles are mostly creative writing, comments are mostly spontaneous reactions…

        As I have read, those who write newspaper articles, even if they read some comments, rarely they respond.

        • satyadeva says:

          “Inspiring” for you, Shantam, to divert your attention from yourself and your situation, providing sources of blame for your own predicament, creating things to be angry about, to argue about, the convenience, even ‘comfort’ of having ‘enemies’ deemed as responsible for ruining your dreams.

          When will you wake up?

  16. Klaus says:

    transnational personality quizz

    Hi, Y’all
    I have come up with another drawing for inspiration and quizzing…

    quizz: (responses totally voluntary…)
    Where do we find the witness in the drawing?
    Which visible element is always there?
    (Is the master hiding somewhere? nonsense question for fun)

    help:
    Lines are for graphical orientation support only.
    Words consist of lines, too.

    Inspirational song:

    Who am I? Who are you? Who are we?
    All human beings
    Who am I? Who are you? Who are we?
    What do you see?

    If you see my iD, iD, iD
    More than a passport, I’m unique
    See my iD, iD, iD, you can be you and I’ll be me
    Let me see your iD, iD, iD
    I see it in your fingerprint, you’re unique
    See your iD, iD, iD
    You can be you and I’ll be me

    by: Michael Patrick Kelly – ID”

    Have a very nice day. Find inspiration. Wherever you are. Cheers.

    smallprint extra:
    https://www.spiritualityhealth.com/articles/2015/07/19/how-can-people-be-deeply-spiritual-and-emotionally

  17. Klaus says:

    Ahhhhhhhhh – picture is here:

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