“If it takes a million years….”

Shantam Prem provides some brief thoughts in honour of Osho’s 90th birthday.  He explains:

As I see, Sannyasnews is the only site with a discussion facility. This is its usp.  Here we just need a small thought, a small thread to get the ball rolling.

When a thought has some sense of provocation, some open ends, then it inspires others to write something on their own. In this way contributors create a bouquet of thoughts,. Not many people have the courage to write in this format,  because counter-products can be brutal for ego.
In two days is  Osho´s 90th birthday.  Here are a few lines as a string opening.:

“If it takes a million years, then it must be a million years. 
This is organic spirituality in accord with Nature. “

The above sentence is not of Osho, it is my sentence though I feel its inspiration comes from Osho´s vision as I have understood and observed during my three decades-plus association with Sannyas.

In a way, the feelings behind the above sentence is my homage to the master on his 90th birthday.
Many others would like to contradict me because of their understanding, let it be. Let us share our thoughts on Osho´s 90 birthday and our views on Neo-Sannyas as it was and where it landed.
It was really a journey into uncharted waters, a journey worth calling  a pilgrimage.
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48 Responses to “If it takes a million years….”

  1. frank says:

    Shantam,

    It is certainly an auspicious moment in the history of consciousness when once again on SN, the astronomically wisdom-sodden music from the spheres circling in the region of Uranus sounds forth!

    “If it takes a million years, then it must be a million years.”
    Perfectly correct!

    Also, Swami Bhorat urges us, in these troubling times, never to forget the Three Noble Truths as expounded by Goatama Bhorat:

    In the matter of words it does not matter if the underpants are outside the trousers.
    Minds are as stupid as people who have them.
    Everything happens in the end.

    Yahoo!
    Swaha!

  2. kavita says:

    For me, even though I am an Indian by birth, the word ‘Sannyas’ came into being in my life only after visiting Poona Osho Commune. Iam sure each one of us has ones’ own interpretation!

    Normally, I have used & still use this word as a shield/escape from any social event! Neo-Sannyas to me now means conserving my energy & my time for myself!

    “If it takes a million years, then it must be a million years.” This makes sense to me.

    ”This is organic spirituality in accord with Nature.“ this to me is utter nonsense!

  3. Lokesh says:

    ‘Organic spirituality’. That’s a new one. No idea what it signifies, so I will check out the dictionary:
    Organic, relating to or derived from living matter.
    Spirituality, the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
    Organic spirituality? I’m afraid you’ve lost me there, Shantam. But not the Buddhists, who have this to say about organic spirituality:

    We are accustomed in the West to think of spiritual matters as having to do with placing ourselves in relationship with something greater than ourselves, something “other,” and something “out there.” At best it is something beautiful, wise, and willing to love us dearly. At worst it is powerful, fearful, and capable of judging us harshly. Some come to know of it through texts of revelation, the teaching of prophets, or the edifices of tradition built upon these foundations. Others intuit it in nature, perceive it in states of non-ordinary experience, or learn of it from wise and trusted elders. In its numerous diverse shapes and forms, this model of the “sacred other” forms the dominant religious paradigm for the Western world.

    In ancient India, along the Indus and Ganges river systems, a very different approach to spirituality was discovered and practised. It had to do with turning inward rather than outward, with understanding and purifying oneself rather than cultivating a relationship with another, and with meditation and asceticism rather than with prayer and ritual. Remnants of this alternative, more organic, approach to spirituality can still be found in the Yogic, Jain, Buddhist and Hindu traditions, but they lie for the most part hidden under layers of both ancient and modern Western influence.

    Long before the invasion of Alexander, Aryan migration over the Khyber Pass and settlement of the river valleys displaced the indigenous culture and imposed upon the region a Western brand of religion involving hereditary priests, sacred revealed truth, and costly ritual communication with masculine sky gods. The introspective tradition went underground and to the fringes of the Vedic world, from where it erupted into the mainstream culture from time to time over the ensuing centuries. One such infiltration was when the Upanishads, steeped in the yogic influence of its forest practitioners, was admitted into the Hindu fold as an acceptable innovation of Vedic tradition.

    A more significant incursion occurred when the Buddha proclaimed his Dharma. From the depths of his personal understanding, gained by arduous ascetic meditation in the wilderness and the radical purification of his mind, the Buddha’s teaching burst onto the scene and challenged the orthodoxy to the core. By the time of King Ashoka it looked capable of supplanting the Brahmanical tradition entirely, but with the collapse of his empire and the turmoil of recurring waves of invasion, Hinduism was gradually able to regain its dominant position on the Indian spiritual landscape. Buddhism was not only marginalized, but was slowly re­cast more in line with the conventional religious paradigm and absorbed into the mainstream. Buddha is today seen in India as the tenth incarnation of Vishnu, sent to earth to teach good Hindus to cease animal sacrifice and to become vegetarians. Even Buddhism today is commonly expressed in the Brahmanical language of primordial perfection, non-dual awareness, and inherently awakened inner nature.

    What are the key features of this more ancient, more organic spirituality taught by the Buddha in his lifetime? To begin with, it is radically experiential. What do you see and feel and touch and know, for yourself, when you attend to the immediacy of the present moment with steady and focused awareness? The outward direction is fraught with illusion, projected from the mysterious depths of the psyche. According to the sages of the river valleys, only by exploring the inner landscape, the nuances and subtle textures of lived experience, can useful and authentic wisdom be discovered.

    Fearless and honest introspection will soon reveal the core defects of the human condition; this is the noble truth of suffering. The mind and body are riddled with stumbling blocks, choke points, nodes of tension, knots of pain, and a veritable fountainhead of selfish, hurtful and deluded psychological stuff. The mind’s capacity for awareness, the “knowing” that arises and passes away, drop by drop in the stream of consciousness, is constantly hindered, fettered, intoxicated and polluted by such internal defilements. The enterprise of organic spirituality is to untangle these tangles, to untie these knots, to unbind the mind—moment by moment, breath by breath—from the imprisoning net of unwholesome and unhealthy manifestations. The reward for a life of careful inner cultivation is the liberation of the mind through wisdom—a remarkable transformation of the mind that awakens it to its full potential of awareness without obstruction or limitation.

    Volumes could be written about the details of this science of liberation, about its discoveries of impermanence, selflessness and suffering, its analysis of the psycho-physical organism into sense spheres, aggregates, and elements, the profound workings of interdependent origination and cessation, or about the extraordinary territory mapped out by the exploration of inner states. But the pivotal discovery of this ancient spirituality is that the world of human experience is a virtual world, constructed each moment by every individual mind and body to patterns of human invention and instinct. Mind and body are natural expressions of a natural world. Their suffering is natural; their liberation from suffering is natural. The “sacred other” is as much a construction as are notions of “permanence,” “selfhood,” and “beauty.” It’s not that such things “don’t exist” or cannot be the source of considerable meaningfulness. It’s just that they are not “out there” in the ways the Indo-European religious reflex takes for granted. Rather, they are projected by the same inner mechanism that orders all other human constructions: the workings of desire.

    It’s not surprising that this radical alternative to the dominant paradigm was misunderstood by the Buddha’s Brahmanical contemporaries, misrepresented for centuries by their ancestors, and continues to be overlooked by modern heirs of the Indo-European spiritual tradition. Yet it continues to beckon, quietly offering its compelling perspective on the human condition to those willing to look inward rather than outward and upward.

    • frank says:

      Buddhism`s come a long way since those guys staggering round the Indus valley.
      The central truth holds good tho`.
      We are all making it all up as we go along.

      Or maybe more accurately, as Arthur Eddington the astro-physicist (and famous disciple of Swami Bhorat) said:
      “Something unknown is doing we don’t know what.”

    • Klaus says:

      Pheeww, that is a concise on-the-spot text, indeed. Imo.

  4. samarpan says:

    Thank you, Shantam. I looked up “organic” in the OED (3rd edition, September 2004) and found a lot of different definitions. Definition 6a is the one that seems to fit for “organic spirituality”…Definition 6a says: “Of, relating to, or characterized by connection or coordination of parts into a single, harmonious whole; organized; systematic.”

    I have heard mystics from different traditions (Buddhists, Advaitins, Sufis, etc.) say: “We are one” in other words, as the OED says: “characterized by connection” …A non-dual (interconnected) view seems to support that sense of the phrase “organic spirituality”.

    I also agree with your other phrase: “If it takes a million years.” Thank you for honouring Osho on his 90th birthday, Shantam.

  5. Lokesh says:

    Shantam suggests, “Let us share our thoughts on Osho´s 90th birthday and our views on Neo-Sannyas as it was and where it landed.’

    Well, Osho has been dead for 30 years now. I think neo-sannyas has maybe had a bit of a crash landing but there are a lot of survivors. When I watch that guy Arun rubbing hysterical women’s foreheads in Nepal I shake my head in disbelief. Despite all the scandals that continue to surface in sannyaslandia Osho still manages to shine through all the dark clouds, although not as brightly as when he was alive.

    Yesterday, I came across a vid of Veeresh asking Osho some questions during Ranch times. Veeresh was obviously blown away by Osho’s presence. Really quite touching and a good reminder of what a powerful phenomenon Osho was. Osho still touches people today, including the rich and famous. Madonna is now a big Osho fan and wishes she’d met him while alive. She thinks ‘No Water No Moon’ is a great book. Who knows, maybe she will get around to reading ‘The Very Best and Worst of Sannyas News’. Sign of the times.

    • frank says:

      Don`t forget, Madonna is mentioned in ‘Best and Worst’, in the chapter about Osho in Crete where he is asked by a journalist: “What do you think of Madonna?”
      Osho answered: “He is rubbisss”
      I wonder if Mags knows that?
      She is obviously another one who could learn something by reading the book.

  6. One can call it divine irony or a tragic comedy of our times, 11th December is Osho´s birthday and on 9th December, his most photographed caretaker disciple and past life lover as per His own words, dies under mysterious, somewhat macabre circumstances and cremated in a way not even enemy soldiers deserve.

    This is the movement once famous for celebrating life and death.
    The loss of that moral high stand is what I miss the most.

  7. Lokesh says:

    You can look back if you want to, but as the old saying goes, ‘You can’t stand in the same part of the river twice’.

    Shantam’s comment made me think about the good old days. Thing is they are so old they have little relevance to my life today. I can no longer be bothered even to miss them. Fond memories are not something I entertain very often. I have practised living in the moment for so long I no longer think about it, I just live it day to day.

    • kavita says:

      So relatable this 10 December, 2021 at 1:24 pm post, Lokesh. ESpecially:
      ”I have practised living in the moment for so long I no longer think about it, I just live it day to day.” Pretty sure this is the best if one needs to really live without dissipating one’s energy &time! But guess this is not for everyone!

    • One can look in this way too, those who have the calling to create better future use much of their present to study the case histories of the past.

      As an Indian, it is almost a national duty for me to long for a better product than Neo-Sannyas conceptualised by Osho Rajneesh.

      Virologists too spend their whole life to look into the microscopes when so much interesting is going on in the world.
      Rise and fall of Neo-Sannyas is a very interesting theme, espeically, how come an Indian mesmerised a crowd of western youth and thought, “I can change the whole West.”

      • Klaus says:

        Hi Shantam,

        I can see that you are building new castles in the air…
        expectations rising high and higher…disappointment following.
        What is – was – reality?
        Positive thinking and excitement covered up many things going on in Sannyas at the time, ain’t it true?
        Having one guy sitting up front “who made it” surely did not mean that everyone is going to make it shortly.

        Twist and turns were bound to happen. No illusions.
        That was the state of being at that time (I wonder if it would be very much different today).
        Even Swami Anand Veeresh – peace be upon him – got himself (freeze) framed…see the picture of the certification of re-cognition game attached.

        Feeling love in an enthusiastic and excitingly excited group seemed to have been (too) easy. Celebrate aloneness? Not so easy.
        “Coming down is the hardest thing.” (Tom Petty).

        If you were aware of “having travelled for millions of years” then that would be a transpersonal experience.
        Are you?

        Don McLean – ‘Castles in the Air’
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH-JGZT79kM

        Construction time. Deconstruction time. Being time.
        Don’t have to jump onto these trains of thoughts again and again…not much of reality to them.

  8. After Organic Spirituality, may I share another new term, ‘Spiritual influencer’…

    ‘Spiritual Influencer’ seems cooler, and much in flow with the time than Spiritual teacher or Master.

    The word and concept ‘Master’ has lost its shelf life, it feels in the same ancient league of Prophets and Avatars.

    The ‘Teacher’ in the spiritual sense also lacks depth, almost like Reiki & Aura Soma….

  9. kavita says:

    Yes, Shantam, this term ‘spiritual influencer’ is cool and also relatable.

    So ”This ‘spiritual influencer’ is in accordance with Nature.“ sounds better & also makes sense! Thank you, Shantam, for bringing this to light!

    “The word and concept ‘Master’ has lost its shelf life, it feels in the same ancient league of Prophets and Avatars.” – Generally speaking, ‘losing shelf life’ is a very relative phrase, which can be used for material use, specifically for firecrackers or perhaps for medicines!

    • Lokesh says:

      ‘Spiritual influencer’ is an Instagram expression. Strictly for the dummies in the class.

      • kavita says:

        Wow, I thought Shantam coined this, will have to check out the new age slang dictionary!

        • Kavita, what is your report about the “Spiritual Influencer”? Is this phrase not used first time on this site?

          As far as Influencer is concerned, Elon Musk also wants to be one.
          It will be wastage, exactly like a British physician tries to run Osho´s Pune?
          One person can not be an expert of many levels, not even if you are Bhagwan Shree.

          How international laws work and immigration laws, neither he has the idea nor his band of followers though they both tried their best to be the experts before the chosen few.

  10. kavita says:

    Yes, Shantam, for me this is not only my first time read/seen on SN but also on the internet I have seen You Tubers who are known as Influencers, which anyway I find ridiculous!

    You know, Shantam, the other day an old sannyassin friend & me were discussing about how some fairly new Indian Osho sannyasins, after reading Osho or visiting Osho Resort/Osho Centere, somehow managed to get a place & call it ‘Ashram’ & in a few days don’t know how to manage it!

    Talking about “a British physician tries to run Osho´s Pune”, somehow I think (& maybe I could be wrong!) what he is doing & practising is what he understands from living in a commune & managing its complexities, amd so it’s best not to have one!

    “One person can not be an expert of many levels, not even if you are Bhagwan Shree.” Which also means the same for you & me!

  11. Hola Lokesh,
    Has sannyasnews book crossed the 100 copies sale?

  12. Lokesh says:

    Hi Shantam,
    I’m sorry to say it has not passed the 100 mark in book sales…maybe 35 including ebook sales. Was never going to be a bestseller.

    It was a nice wee project. You can check a book’s ranking on Amazon…for example, in Germany the paperback is number 6,876,987…which means only a couple of books have been sold there etc.

    I occasionally update the manuscript if I come across something that adds to a comment or article…not very much, though, things about covid etc.

    I focus my attention elsewhere for the most part. I have plenty to do including fixing a leaky bathroom roof. Suggested listening:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPBd8eHQqIw

    • frank says:

      Swami Bhorat touched on this in today`s discourse at Bungabunga ashram:

      “Certainly figures show that true wisdom is only for the chosen few!
      Unconscious masses will have absolutely no idea what such wise men are blathering on about!
      Thankfully, Osho`s vision is in safe hands and will never become just another religion beset with interminable battles between sects led by pot-bellied lawyers for control of ponzi schemes and spiritual real estate; or bogged down in endless scandals due to nonce followers and jailbait jnanis who started out in search of having mind blown but ended up having lower chakras blown instead!

      Yahoo!”

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