Coming to a Master for the Wrong Reasons: Osho
A disciple and the Master are in a great conflict; a great struggle goes on. And the disciple can win only if he is unfortunate. If the Master wins it, the disciple is blessed, very fortunate. The struggle is because the disciple has come to the Master for wrong reasons – maybe he has come to seek some sort of spiritual ego. He has failed in life; money, power, prestige, respectability, success in the marketplace, ambitions in the political world – he has failed there. He could not attain to the very peak of his egoistic journey; he could not become a president or a prime minister – now life is running out of his hands and he wants to be somebody. It is very, very uncomfortable to remain a nobody.
Finally people start seeking and searching into the dimension of religion. There it seems easier. There it seems easier to attain to a certain ego, a certain crystallization of the ego. At least you can become an “Osho sannyasin” – so simple. And you can feel great. You can feel that you have become special. [...]
The disciple comes for wrong reasons. Or a disciple comes to attain a certain sort of peace because he is in much turmoil. Why does he want to attain to peace? He wants to attain to peace so that he can work out his ambitions in a better way. [...]
When you come to a real Master he says there is no remedy; he says there is no panacea. And he does not say that he will make you peaceful and healthy and this and that, and then you can go into the world and
rush after your ambition in a more efficient way. No, he will say you are disturbed; you are in a turmoil
because of the ambition.
Drop the ambition. A real Master can only promise you that he will take away your ambition, he will take away your ego. He can only promise that he will kill you. You have come to be protected, you have come to attain to some security, you have come to find some props, but a real Master is one who takes your props, prop by prop, away from you. One day you simply collapse. And in that very collapse, out of the ashes, arises a new being. That new being has nothing to do with you. That new being is so new it is discontinuous with you. It has no past, it has no future;
it has only a pure presence, here-now.
Coming to a master…
Does it include coming to a master after his date of expiry?
That depends on the disciple!
I bow down to the disciplehood of millions of Buddhist monks and Christian nuns.
“Expiry”? Who dies?
(Apologies to Ramana Maharshi and Stephen Levine).
” “Expiry”? Who dies?” Does it mean Ravana also exists or it is only Ramana?
As usual, the answer is to be found in the bottomless wisdom of the ancient rishis of mighty Bhorat!
It is written in holy Vedas, Chapter 4, Verse 7:
“Perfectly correct mystics do not expire, they just go past their sell-by date.”
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Thankfully, Osho is a spiritually incorrect mystic.
Yes, Samarpan; but the point is:
Who is you?
Madhu, is your question sincere? Do you really want the answer? Why do you want to know? Or is the question an intentional provocation? In the leela of life does there need to be a “point”?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uSKspIqXQ0
“Madhu, is your question sincere?”
Yes Samarpan, my question is sincere, and it is not ´me´ who wants to know, or get an answer. And yes, there might be a little provocation in it, but just indicating a direction, as I am quite sensitive to any flavour of ´pontification´ with the Master’s words.
So using the word “point” was/is indeed wrong choice; maybe we can agree on ´direction´?
(Somebodhy once called it a U-turn)…
Just coming home from a long walk, so your ´youtube offer´, I may look at it later.
With love,
Madhu
In my experience, Osho is more available today than ever before. I feel Osho’s loving presence so much, thirty-plus years later. It is a fundamental principle of classical physics that matter cannot be created or destroyed. Death is a fiction. Osho is now available everywhere. Yahoo!
Yahoo!
It seems if religions are the opium of the masses, Sannyas is the LSD.
Osho is now available everywhere. Yahoo! It is his books or it is Osho? Through his voice, Michael Jackson must be available everywhere or not?
Basically, ‘Osho is everywhere’ sentiments show Hindus and others were always right; why one should go here and there when Rama is everywhere?
Mr. Editor,
This Osho piece as a string must be your choice.
What you intend to convey?
What is your interpretation?
A Master baits the hook. Many fish are caught. But of course many don’t realise what being part of a sangha of an enlightened Master is really about.
And the Master has to use bait – like the euphoria and joy that seemed to surround the early commune; but it was a bait.
Shiva (High Milne) was a classic example. He found the father he never had in Osho, and a lot of ego- stroking from his position in the commune. As soon as his circumstances changed and he was just an ‘ordinary’ sannyasin, he found all sorts of reasons to be bitter and to quarrel with his Master.
He missed, but he was not alone by any means. When the going gets tough on the ego, it don’t like it and it finds ways to run away, and justify such running away.
I would put it at less than 10 per cent who finally knew that they had come to burn away their ego and remained ‘still’ with that.
Osho tells a story, which I am unable to find, so crudely speaking, here it is:
A Zen master sends one of his people to another monastery to ask for a hundred monks to be sent as he needs to prepare his successor.
The monk he sends does this, and starts the journey back with 100 monks, and on the way, one by one, for some reason or other, they get caught up with someone or something and fall out, and in the end the only monk to get back is the messenger, who becomes the Zen master’s successor, and he tells his messenger he expected this to happen, expected no more than one to get back.
This post was my last read yesterday evening. So the thought was churning inside…Parmartha, how you will give here ‘n’ now interpretation to your opening statement?
Someone can also say…
“What a freedom, Osho, what a freedom.
Master is everywhere, universe is his Sangha
I am at peace.”
Power of self-hypnosis is simply amazing.
“There is so much much magnificence near the ocean,
Waves are coming in, waves are coming in….”
http://www.sannyas.wiki/index.php?title=A_Great_Affair
Any narrative that has at its base judgments which rate people as to how much ego they have `burnt off`-
With the good guys (inevitably, the narrator and a chosen few` others) on the ‘burnt-off ego’ side and the ‘non-burnt off ego’ brigade – the ‘missed’ – on the other side, I find kind of weird these days.
Smacks of judgmental religious bullshit. How can you possibly know the insides of all these people?
Saints/sinners
Elect/reprobates
Faithful/apostates
Less than 10% ego/`missed` -
Really?
Perfectly correct, Parmartha!
As you say, the master is certainly a master baiter! And many slimy, whiffy, fishy characters were dragged from murky waters into the multi-national fish-pie that was the Sangha! Some were thrown back into the pond and the rest have been cured in various ways – the present leaders of the Inner Circle have been preserved due to their being well-pickled and smoked!
It is a fascinating thing in spirituality that there are always the egoless ones who, in perfect humility, understand the truth on one side, and on the other hand, there are the unconscious fools who miss on account of being dripping with unburnt-off ego!
Fortunately, you, Shantam, Samarpan and my extremely humble self (that has much less than 10% ego still functioning) are clearly part of the chosen few left after the master has used his devices for 50 years to get rid of all the idiots!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Great, Yogi.
Yogi, you must add all other bloggers in the list. They are all chosen few. Master has chosen all of us to do brainstorming and refine each other.
Bloody hell, Yogi, just 10%? Surely, you must be the reincarnation of an enlightened one. And I mean a top-dog one, not Krishnamurti or likewise, I mean Siddhartha (wasn’t he Buddha?).
Definitely not Osho, ’cause there is a long queue for the successor…WEhat about initiating disciples? Have you thought about sharing? Throwing baits? Anyway, let us know.
From the time humanity started walking on any part of the Earth, some rituals, some festivals got birth. They have deep sociological, cultural and psychological impact on the well-being of society as well as Individuals.
They are the must.
With the evolution of New, quite often old loses their worth, they are replaced by the New. For example, Osho created and participated His own festivals during the course of running years. He took something away and replaced with something else. In his style, one can say, ” Once diamonds are seen, letting go of stones happens by itself.”
But Alas, Chief disciples from UK and Canada with their hand-picked Indian slaves have destroyed the alchemist´s mystery.
These bastards have the idea, one does not need any special day as festival. Every day is a festival. I mean it is a childish mentality of pamper-wearing kids. They can make Khakha even on dining table.
At least babies look cute.
P.S:
Today, India is celebrating Diwali. We at sannyasnews are celebrating struggle between disciple and master and between disciples themselves.
“These bastards have the idea, one does not need any special day as festival. Every day is a festival. I mean it is a childish mentality of pamper-wearing kids…They are the must.”
Your whole take on this is itself pretty “childish”, Shantam. You’re like a child whose birthday party has been cancelled. But what about the other 364 days of the year?
Until you see this yourself it’s probably a waste of time telling you. Stopping complaining all the time would be a useful place to start. Realising that your personal decisions and choices, plus your personal expectations, are the real causes of your chronic unhappiness would also come in handy.
Until then, you’re bound to get little or no agreement or ‘sympathy’ at this place (or from any other reasonably intelligent people anywhere), even though they might recognise you’ve got yourself into an apparently unsatisfactory life situation.
From how you’ve come across all these years here, I’m not optimistic you’ll ever stop behaving as a ‘victim’ of “these bastards”. In fact, I reckon I’ll call Ladbrokes right now and ask what price they’ll give me against that outcome. 1000/1 at least, I suspect….
Thank you, Shantam Prem, to remind us all on ´Diwali’, such a beautiful celebration of LIGHT. I am celebrating ´Diwali` since a little while, every evening after sunset, and that just happened, I didn ´t gave it a special name though.
Today, the day exquisitely bright and warm, and I made it, to have a long walk by the river outside the city under a sapphire sky.
Got a lift from some unknowable unknown of the billions of fellow-travellers, who was very friendly.
How was your day?
Madhu
This is a nice and lovable post addressed to me.
Thank you. Madhu.
May the Diwali continue. Every night is candlelit night.
Perfectly correct, Bhai!
May the Diwali lights shine for you where the sun don’t shine!
And as you fervently intone with the unmistakeable energy of the true disciple…
May the pamper-wearing, white-skinned, English, Scottish and Irish bastards of Her Majesty do Kaka on the dining table!
It is a noble sentiment, Bhai, and one entirely worthy of one with a level of consciousness such as you!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
The end result of this mind-fuck theory, “Everyday is a festival” is disciples of Osho are declining and those who call themselves disciples are becoming emotionally dry and starving. Most of them have lost social contacts and therefore loss of human warmth in their solitary existence.
By chewing books and magazines, does not help much in such falls.
It is really not Osho´s fault. He has created and handed over a complete package of new man and new humanity.
“The end result of this mind-fuck theory, “Everyday is a festival” is disciples of Osho are declining and those who call themselves disciples are becoming emotionally dry and starving. Most of them have lost social contacts and therefore loss of human warmth in their solitary existence.”
Oh, really? You’ve carried out a full, statistically watertight survey, have you, Shantam?!
You wouldn’t be projecting your personal circumstances (who created them, btw?) onto everyone else, would you? Without a hint of self-responsibility?
Now that would be so not like you….
Satyadeva, I am ready to accept the challenge by any sample survey on the sociology of Osho disciples. My common sense observation is quite up to the mark. I don´t write about any subject but the subject I am passionately involved in.
Matter of the fact is, usual bloggers will shun away from the survey based on two or three simple questions:
1-Do you have contact with fellow-travellers? when was the last time you have meditated with fellow disciples or hugged someone?
2-Do you live with the family, or alone, or in a community?
3-Do you have life partner?
I don´t expect answers from privacy-shy bloggers. Big Brother is watching every post. Just think in your own self or look at the life of people who you have met on the Osho path.
On a positive note, one thing is clear, every Osho disciple, howsoever is the life state, is much more contented, wiser and cheerful than the usual lots.
I suggest your questions are incomplete, therefore flawed, Shantam.
After each question you should add: ‘And is this in itself a cause of unhappiness?’
SD, he is not interested in the answers, he has his presumptions which have nothing to do with reality.
Because it’s ultimately not the situation but what you make of it that counts. That, plus the useful (or even vital) prerequisite of realising one’s own part in creating it.
I have not talked about unhappiness.
The post you are quoting, in the end I have written:
“On a positive note, one thing is clear, every Osho disciple, howsoever is the life state, is much more contented, wiser and cheerful than the usual lots.”
Mirrors don´t lie, my dear friend!
Then kindly explain the point of your ‘survey’!
And you write:
“Matter of the fact is, usual bloggers will shun away from the survey based on two or three simple questions.”
If sannyasins/fellow-travellers are so contented and cheerful, more than the rest of the population, what’s the problem?!
You’re confused again, aren’t you, Shantam? The truth would seem to be that you personally are extremely discontented with your life and you’ll think and say anything to try to ‘prove’ – especially to yourself – that it’s all the fault of “these bastards” 6000 miles away.
How very foolish.
“I have not talked about unhappiness.”
Then, again, what’s the point of your ‘survey’? Disinterested sociological research in the name of academic objectivity and the pursuit of, er, ‘some sort of, er, er, well, ‘something or other’?
Anyway, as you’ll never carry it out, it’s a waste of time discussing it, of course. Except to highlight your confusion.
1-Do you have contact with fellow-travellers? When was the last time you have meditated with fellow disciples or hugged someone?
Yes, I do have contact with fellow-travellers, most of my fellow-travellers have realised meditation is not a social activity any more. Yes, we hug every time we meet & part.
2-Do you live with the family, or alone, or in a community?
Yes, I live with family & in a community.
3-Do you have life partner?
Yes, I do.
This is the answer from a Ma who lives around 750-900 metres away from the Osho Commune, Pune and in a way distance is more than the Statue of Liberty, New York.
And Kavita, say my ‘Happy Diwali’ to Amma and your life partner. If it is still the same, one of my friends, then a hug to him.
Shantam, I shall convey to Amma your message but your friend & my life partner said to me once on a Diwali evening in your flat, he is not here to light outer lights!
P.S:
Btw, he said that in reference to asking him about diya (earthen lamps) I had left the previous evening.
Kavita, you should write the story of your beloved Shashwat, once the budding advocate, Rajpal Singh Dakka.
His is one of the most remarkable life stories I have seen among all of us once coming under the influence of Osho.
Dear, when we were together in Poona he had penned many stories & he would read it aloud to me. One of them was very autobiographical but I tore that in one of our fights & later he left me all his other writings which I still have, but somehow I am not into fictional stories and to me now, whatever I write about anyone, including myself, shall probably anyway be fictional!
The Struggle between Disciple and Master…
I feel the discourse excerpt quoted by Parmartha gives the impression when Master and disciples are alive and on the planet Earth.
It is another matter, after the demise of the master, disciples never accept that Mr. Guruji is no more. In every school, in every ashram, it is the universal position. I don´t think sannyasins have discovered some formulas of rocket science by proclaimg, “Osho is everywhere.”
The way one sees the life after master, the struggle is not between disciple(s) and master but The Disciple(s) And The Church.
My contention is that it is a sacred job of the first generation disciples to create a church where conflict is the minimum and every conflict opens a new window for solution.
There is another possibility too:
Bury the dead forever. Existence is not infertile, it goes on producing all kind of giants, all the time.
Midgets also.
Samarpan said on 10 November, 2015 at 5:21 pm:
“It is a fundamental principle of classical physics that matter cannot be created or destroyed. Death is a fiction.”
Be aware: the conservation laws have been derived from exhaustive experimentation and observation. They deliver testable, repeatable evidence and proof that is beyond dispute.
In no way does physics support ignorant superstition.
“Death is a fiction” is wishful thinking that can provide none of the rigour found in science – but only a dream that the ego can endure for eternity.