Live like a Zen Garden lives: Osho

 

My people have to learn to live like a Zen garden, where nothing is symmetrical, where trees are allowed to grow the way they like. The gardeners are not continually after them, pruning them, giving them a shape.

 
One beautiful Zen story is that a king sent his prince, who was going to be the next king, to learn gardening with a Zen master. It took three years, and whatever the prince learned… in the garden of the palace, he had one thousand gardeners; he told them how to do all that he had learned to create a garden. After three years the master would come,
and if he was satisfied the prince would pass the examination; otherwise, again another three years.
The master came. It was a beautiful garden — one thousand gardeners were working in it. But the prince was becoming afraid because there was no smile on the master’s face, and finally the master said, “Everything is right, but you will have to come back for three more years.”
The prince said, “What is wrong? You say, `Everything is right,’ then why have I to come back?”
The master went out of the garden, brought thousands of dead leaves which the gardeners had thrown out… the whole night they had been cleaning the garden of all the old dead leaves, so when the master came there would be nothing to object to. And the master brought the leaves and threw them on the garden path. The wind started playing with those dead leaves, and there was a certain music of the wind playing with the dead leaves, and the dead leaves moving all over the path.
The master said, “Now everything is okay. Without the leaves the garden was looking too man-made; now it looks natural. But as far as you are concerned, you will need three more years, because you have not learned the basic lesson that the garden should not be man-made. Man should help the trees to grow in their own way, in their own individuality.”

 
A Zen garden is a beauty which no other garden in the world can be compared with… suddenly a pond, suddenly old rocks, trees growing in their own way; it is more a forest than a garden. The forest has something of godliness, the garden is too sophisticated. You cannot be bored in a Zen garden; you can be bored in the garden which Europe has 
invented, that is man-manufactured.

Osho

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97 Responses to Live like a Zen Garden lives: Osho

  1. Kavita says:

    When Osho is in this mood, which mostly he is, it just makes all my faculties stop, it makes me feel like maybe this orgasm could last for ever! Oh, maybe my ultimate game for survival.

    • lokesh says:

      Kavita, if what you say is sincere, it must be said that allowing all your faculties to stop, including your critical ones, might not be such a good idea, because it is prompting you to write sentimental nonsense.

      You mention your ultimate game for survival. Although why is none to clear. What is for sure is that you were given critical faculties as a God-given gift in order to promote your survival, yet you seem to take pleasure out of the idea of abandoning them. I suggest that you have been led up the Zen garden path.

  2. lokesh says:

    Osho liked using gardening as an anology for working on his people – a little pruning, correct nourishment etc. That said, I don’t think Osho ever worked much in a garden. The image of Osho in rubber boots pulling weeds does not compute.

    His inexperience in the green world shows. Take the following as an example: “where trees are allowed to grow the way they like. The gardeners are not continually after them, pruning them, giving them a shape.” Thus spoke the voice of inexperience.

    I was just thinking about pruning some fruit trees this morning. I did not do this last year and had a pretty poor harvest of apricots this year as a result. My point is that certain trees need pruning, fruit trees in particular. It is as if the fruit trees get the idea that they are wild and free to do as they wish if they go unpruned. Cut them back and they stay healthier and produce more fruit.

    My orange tree has one bough currently almost touching the ground because it is overladen with fruit. Left untended the bough will eventually crack, making the whole tree prone to disease. I am sure you get the picture and if you think about it the natural examples I have given can make excellent analogies if applied to the human realm.

    Osho concludes: “You cannot be bored in a Zen garden; you can be bored in the garden which Europe has invented, that is man-manufactured.”
    Zen gardens are also man-manufactured. I am sure you have been in some natural beauty spot and said, it looks like a Zen garden. Then again, where in Nature do you find mossy boulders surrounded by concentric rings of neatly raked sand? Nowhere. Only in a Zen garden will you find such a things. A product of cultivation.

    “You can be bored in the garden which Europe has invented.”
    A bit of a put-down there. Perhaps Osho never actually visited the manicued gardens of the Taj Mahal on a full moon night. A Moghul creation. In the Muslim world, Paradise is thought to be a walled garden, no doubt an idea that stems from folk who lived in desert climes. I reckon there were well-tended gardens in Asia when the Europeans were still running about in bear skins and a long way off from inventing wheels for their barrows.

    “You have not learned the basic lesson that the garden should not be man-made.”
    I do not think that is a basic lesson at all. Left to itself, Nature turns into a jungle or wilderness. A garden is basically an idea that has been cultivated, Zen or otherwise.

    • Simond says:

      When I was with Osho, I often loved his varying usage of metaphors and allegories, parables and jokes he used, to aid with his attempts to get me to understand his ‘teaching’. His Commentaries on all sorts of religions brought them alive and showed me new ways of thinking.

      This is one of those parables, if that is the correct word, that Lokesh has beautifully dismantled.
      The metaphor of a natural garden being more real or true than a man-made one, is too simplistic and Lokesh has carefully explored how and why. I can’t add any more to his contribution. He has done a great job, with his usual clarity.

      So what was Osho trying to say here? The context is limited, it’s only a short part of a larger discourse, no doubt, so it’s hard for me to know.

      Whilst I often loved these stories, one of the reasons why I moved on from Osho was that I found the answers to my questions were not satisfactorily being answered by his use of stories and parables. His emphasis was too ‘Eastern’, too wrapped up in symbology, poetry and less direct than I needed.

      I’d taken as much as I could from him and he had given as much as he could to me. No blame, in fact, great respect that he had offered me so much.

      Notions like enlightenment and his emphasis on meditation and the ways of the East became less useful to me as a means to understand my feelings of isolation, my problems with relationships and my need to live a ‘western’ life.

      Of course there were and are many sannyasins facing the same dilemmas. And we have all moved on in one way or another. Some ‘sticking’ with the master, others finding new teachers, some rooting themselves in a way of life to feel more secure and others branching out to seek new solutions to age-old problems.

      Now, looking in at Osho and his legacy, I find myself very distant from him. Critical even. The criticism isn’t personal or with any blame. He served a great purpose, to help me on the way and to bring new ideas about consciousness to many hundreds of thousands of people. I’m fascinated that in some ways his teaching has expanded as much as it has, with Poona becoming more and more popular. Perhaps these younger visitors are able to better understand Osho – I don’t know, I’ve not visited the place in years. As I read his books I find myself feeling more and more that what he spoke about feels out of date. Time moves on and consciousness is always developing.

      New teachers like Tolle are read by millions, and there are teachers of non-duality at two a penny now, most adding to the confusion. But one way or another, young people seem far more open, honest, truer and wiser than I ever was. Many, thank God, are reading Tolle, Osho and others like him and recognising their messages are of no use to them at all. They are already superseded by the new intelligence they are born with and see these older teachers as we once saw our parents. As old, fusty and and out of date!

      I’ve spent these intervening years since leaving Osho, struggling, at times, with one new teaching or another, seeing limitations and learning from them all. This seems to me is the purpose of it all. To keep learning, to keep shedding old ideas, keep discovering the new. The ‘doing’ of which means disowning my teacher, Osho, as he disowned his.

      To return to Osho’s allusions for the article, to keep pruning, refining and going against the ‘natural’ order of things.

  3. prem martyn says:

    Instructions for Zen garden:
    1) Take two European white swans and bubble-wrap them on an Air India flight.

    2) Unpack two dead swans which died of asphyxiation en route.

    3) Re-order two more swans.

    4) Cut wings off swans to prevent flying in India and taking off from Pune, getting exhausted and dying.

    5) Place swans in bath-tub pond outside so-called Buddha hall. Have one swan die anyway.

    6) Watch German swan-feeding woman with face of a Breughel character claim that swan going round and round in pond is doing Sufi-whirling and closes down awkward questions. Smile, sannyas-style.

    7) Have girlfriend challenge famous elderly Greek gardener over swan debacle, to be dismissed with, “you know better than your master.”

    7) Rationalise away silent thought of “Master can suck me off but this is nuts and so are you” and let it become instead, “Yes, gosh, all these swans are imbibing service to raised consciousness in themselves by being close to master, beats flying around, anyday.”

    8) Book for next weekend with self-declared enlightened swan-feeding Breughel woman so as to ask awkward questions and learn smile techniques.

    9) Tell world.

    10) What historical frigging bloody swans are you on about, mate?

  4. shantam prem says:

    Greatness of Osho lies not just in his words but the effort to create a world according to his own words. But this was only till his lifetime.

    Last 25 years have shown no one dictates the Zen gardening from up in the sky. Osho´s own creation has become a cut-and-paste version of English garden!

  5. lokesh says:

    Guess who is wearing biodegradable chuddies and in charge of the compost heap in a forgotten corner of the Zen Garden.

    • satyadeva says:

      Erm…er…any clues, please?

      Is he an easterner? Does he live in the West? Is he on the dole? Is he sex-obsessed? Is he a master of incomprehensible metaphor? Is he totally uninterested in meditation or meditativeness? Is self-enquiry total anathema to him? Is he fixated on external concerns? Is he wasting his talent (as a comedian)? Is he using the internet to avoid his own pain? Is he almost totally ‘unconscious’?

      Is it – no, surely not – the ‘Authority of Authorities’ on both what the ‘Master of Masters’ ‘really’ wanted and spiritual politics among his devotees, disciples, friends, followers and fellow-travellers?

  6. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh kind of runaway disciples saved their skin but in the process lost the refinedness of the soul.

    Sometimes you must lose all the investment, feel remorse and then maybe you come in the class of losers who win the game.

    From all his posts, one can see, if Scot has lost one cent, somehow with his shrewd mind earns 50, this or that way.

    • lokesh says:

      Chuddie Buster, I did not run away from anything in regards to Osho. I simply grew out of the situation due to circumstance and rude awakenings. How long since you began talking in your sleep?

  7. shantam prem says:

    Breaking news from the world of Indian gurus:

    For the last few weeks, one Indian guru promoting himself as world master (jagad.guru) Rampal is in the news for wrong reasons.

    In some criminal and property dispute case, he is avoiding court summons for last many years due to this and that pretext, and when the High Court took notice of this and ordered state machinery to produce him, he encircled himself with thousands of gullible disciples. In their opinion, their guru is a victim of political vendetta, as he was speaking the truth and unmasking all those gurus who have incomplete knowledge.

    In this stand-off with the police, six of his disciples have died.
    In a way, the glorious career of this guru is finished. Whether he will be in prison for years to come or maybe will commit suicide with his closest follwers. TV news crew cameras are stationed outside of his ashram for minute-to-minute breaking news.

    Lesson of the story is, in disciples’ eyes, their guru is always innocent, uncorrupted, infallible. It is always the others who are on the fault line.

    For the benefit of western spiritual seekers, here is a link to his website:
    http://www.jagatgururampalji.org/

    • frank says:

      I was in a New Age shop the other day and I noticed they had little laminated information sheets for sale with a potted summary of various fields of interest: Taoism, Astrology, Meditation, Dreams etc. etc. and there was one…Indian Gurus…and yes, wedged in amongst the piss-drinkers and piss-takers crowd that he spent his life slagging off there he was…Osho.

      Dear, oh dear. The man who stated Freddie N as his favourite philosopher and the man who brought to life Kazantzakis` inspired creation, Zorba, that gave form to the possibility of a man living fully outside the scourge of religion. The man who was decried as evil by every major religious institution on the planet ends up claimed by religious morons trying to crank him up as a new version of their tradition of birth.

      Tragic!
      But luckily, comic too….

      • Simond says:

        Hi Frank
        Yes it’s mad, isn’t it, Osho amongst the cranks! It seems even he falls amongst the lowest common denominators. Like you, I feel it’s cosmic. A cosmic joke.

        The great thing is that I don’t think he would give a toss. He lived fully and totally and what happens after he dies, who cares? You got his message and that’s all that matters.

      • lokesh says:

        Frank, what exactly were you doing in a New Age shop?

    • satyadeva says:

      How predictable, how utterly boring (and how utterly off-topic). And his website is a load of meaningless codswallop.

      • Simond says:

        Calm down now, Sat, you can’t debate with a madman, however much you try.
        Don’t bother, it’s not worth the bother.

      • Arpana says:

        You sound as if you’re surprised that Shantam would recommend a website that was a load of old codswallop.

        Etymology of codswallop:

        Unknown, attested from 1959 episode of UK TV series Hancock’s Half Hour. The writers (Galton and Simpson) state that the phrase was in general use when the show was broadcast.[1][2] A national TV appeal in the UK in 2006 failed to find earlier references.[1] Originally written (1963) codswallop, spelling cod’s wallop is later.

        Various etymologies are proposed from some sense o (as in codpiece), from cod (“joke, imitation”)[1] + wallop (“beer (slang)”), hence cod + wallop “imitation beer” (with interconsonantal -s- to ease pronunciation of -dw-), or from cod (“fish”) (some part of the fish, as from fishing industry).

        A frequently given etymology, rejected as a folk etymology, derives it from Hiram Codd, British soft drink maker of the 1870s, known for the eponymous Codd-neck bottle, with the suggestion that codswallop is a derisive term for soft drinks by beer drinkers, from Codd’s + wallop (“beer (slang)”) “Codd’s beer (sarcastic)”. This is widely rejected – there is no evidence that early uses had this sense, the slang wallop (“beer”) comes later than Codd’s lifetime,[1] initial spellings (1963 in print) do not reflect such a derivation (*Codd’s wallop and *coddswallop with -dd- are not found), and there is an 80 year gap between proposed coinage and attestation.

        This is also the name given to the wooden device placed over the neck of a codd bottle and given a push (wallop) to dislodge the marble in the neck of the bottle. The word has also been used to describe the process of opening a codd bottle.)

        • prem martyn says:

          It’s likely to be the cod (latin; coda, or tail) from the English codpiece (scrotum) – bashing (wallop); ie tosser/ stupid & indulgent masturbator.

          Photos to follow….

  8. shantam prem says:

    Satyadeva,
    Fact is, hundred thousand people believe him as saviour. And do you think to be a world master one must be profound in oratory skills and speak ‘scientifically’?

    Theme is, when we believe in someone we forget his humanness, his human weaknesses and human blunders.

    What to say about this immunity for the great one, even his hand-picked servants too want to have such immunity.

  9. shantam prem says:

    Who knows, dear God – sorry, Existence – feels the true longing of his British folks; who knows, spiritual wisdom of Arpana, Satyadeva, Simond kinds, who are stationed in Queen´s England, get rewarded and finally England gets its first prince who will wake the soul of his people up to the level of enlightenment worthy for snobbish SOBs.

    I will check Daily Mail regularly for the arrival date of new prince.

    • Arpana says:

      Who knows, dear God – sorry, Existence – feels the true longing of his Indian folks; who knows, spiritual wisdom of Shantam kinds, who is stationed in Merkel’s Germany, gets rewarded and finally Germany gets its first prince who will wake the soul of her people up to the level of enlightenment worthy for snobbish SOBs.

      I will check Daily Mail regularly for the arrival date of new prince.

  10. shantam prem says:

    Even to bring changes in copy/paste requires some wisdom. People born with spiritual idiocy cannot even do this.

    Just by reading Osho is not enough, boy.

    In Merkel´s Germany, children get birth not the prince/princesses.

    It shows you are quite compatible with the trustees who are running foundations in the name of Osho; always cutting at the wrong place. The thieves with the gloves, who still leave their fingerprints!

    Oh God…where is the Zen Garden Osho tried to create in and around us?

  11. Chetas says:

    Hi everybody out there,

    How I ended up here at SN was perhaps because of my grandfather. I just heard the story from my mother, today.

    All summers, we used to live in my mother’s home, a farmhouse in the countryside, as a kind of commune; with my 20 cousins, perhaps 20 or more adults: my parents, my mother’s sisters and brothers, workers etc. Today, she told me when I was one year old I climbed on the table of my grandparents and I was running across the big table, people cheering at me. My mother got very afraid of me falling down and therefore very angry with me. But my grandfather was really encouraging me to really go for it.

    I could imagine Osho as my grandfather too; just encourage me to go for the run for the fun of it, some will hate it, some will love it. and you can also fall down.

    So, it might be I will be running at SN’s table right now. And the table can be slippery. Actually, even the wrong place to run. However, SN editors tend to catch the worst falls and even help with some minor slobbery. But I am having such fun with you, now the audience is also much more critical and aware. So what to do, but enjoy this.

    At the same time, I wonder what is your story ending up here?

    Martyn, I am happy to see you. But, since you like animals, I would like you to be more precise and perhaps do some bird watching, ie which ones are ravens and which ones are swans. Forget about the ravens.

    Kavita, I already know what you think of me when I have to admit I am not 100% sure which discourse. The reason is that, as I wrote before, I am doing Osho lecture marathon, listening to different discourses for many hours every evening and falling asleep and waking up (the story of my life in general). I have ended up listening to most of the discourses 4-5 times, but I forget what he said and in which one. I think this was in ‘The Grass Grows By Itself’, but at the same time I was also listening to Osho’s last discourse. I did listen to it last night again, but I heard different things and also I fell asleep in different times.

    Lokesh, I am sure I would love to participate in any of your meditations, if you can include a housewife. Your meditation party might be too cool or me not being cool enough for it. However, I can totally relate to your gardening issues with pruning the trees. The hardest thing at the moment for me is that I need to cut down the very old, huge tree that was originally the reason I bought the land.

    Madhu, you just make me smile, as if we were on the planet B612 taking care of the rose together.

    Well, well, SN has put an Osho Quote of Osho talking on Zen. That’s what I have been listening to for more than 2 months; hours of Osho talking on Zen. I would not really like to try it at all, to share about it. But that would be refusing the run. So I have been going inside for quite a while, now it’s time to go outside again. The fear is how to keep the rose fresh and alive; cultivated, but wild, on a new planet I am landing on again. Fear is there, but also excitement….

    • Kavita says:

      “Kavita, I already know what you think of me when I have to admit I am not 100% sure which discourse. The reason is that, as I wrote before, I am doing Osho lecture marathon, listening to different discourses for many hours every evening and falling asleep and waking up (the story of my life in general). I have ended up listening to most of the discourses 4-5 times, but I forget what he said and in which one. I think this was in ‘The Grass Grows By Itself’, but at the same time I was also listening to Osho’s last discourse. I did listen to it last night again, but I heard different things and also I fell asleep in different times.”

      Chetas, I really didn’t think of anything about you, but I am curious to know what you thought of what I think. Anyway, don’t bother, sometimes I hate killing the cat. After reading this post, I think you are at present a fan of hotchpotch. All The Best.

    • lokesh says:

      Chetas, you are always welcome.

  12. shantam prem says:

    I was on the bicycle on the way from wellness studio. And I felt, SannyasNews is the living testimony of “Live like a Zen Garden lives: Osho.”

    For example, in spite of obvious hostility and protecting one´s mental turf at any cost, we don´t kick each other out to the level of knockout. There is no desire to ban anyone – on the contrary, a feeling, “all sannyasins are welcome.”

    If I am the chairman of the Osho Ashram unlimited, my first and foremost work will be to acknowledge the contribution of those thousands of seekers who poured their heart and money to create a billion dollars worth of property supposed to be a Buddhafield. There will be an open call to all the disciples for “Come, come and yet come again.”

    Buddhafield chairman has the responsibility to preserve that energy which was the magnetic force to attract seekers around the globe and create environment for such people´s visit for few weeks till few months.

    Bringing monastery and market together is Osho´s Zen. In Osho´s ashram there is always enough room for mind-fuckers and sentimental fools! Lol.

    • lokesh says:

      El Chudo is a living example of how sannyas was for anyone who wanted to join the ranks…no matter how stupid you happen to be.

      The Chud Meister declares, “If I am the chairman of the Osho Ashram unlimited…etc” and then procedes to explain what a glorious vision he has. Of course, this will never happen. Osho claimed to be someone who could free one from illusion, yet here we have a sannyasin on SN openly sharing an obvious fantasy about himself, which is completely illusionary.

      That someone should waste time on such fantasies is to me remarkable. How can someone spend so much time believing in such fruitless and impossible-to-manifest dreams? Surely, like most fantasists, the problem lies in over-identification with the ego and the ridiculous projections it is capable of producing.

  13. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Hi, Chetas, IN-there,
    Came home around midnight, looking for Sannyas ´News´ – what a surprise then (again) – your contribution. Came late because I am visiting, the best I can manage, this year´s worldwide contributions of film students, a small festival.

    The thread of the evening today was around issues of ´communication´(and its thorough fall-outs!). So – how amazing and extraordinary to find kind words from your side when I came home and also the habitual cynical approach (called irony) seemed to be less harsh and more witty than usual.

    So – a good sign that you joined the ´communication tango´in the desert lounge. And – why not share the essence you get by going into the listening spaces?

    Yes, it IS difficult to find words – always – but maybe also an experience, like balancing your little dance on the slippery table, enjoying so much, when you were a little child? What a joy, wasn´t it? Isn´t it? Because there is no time, not really.

    The Rose you speak of is not on another planet. Neither are we.
    The most precious is the most close (I have heard not only Him, Osho, say). And that´s why not seen so often, neither by ourselves, nor by others.

    So part of this gardening is a learning to see. Another one to let it be, in the flux of ´hide and seek´.

    And do you remember the Zen story of a ´God Seeker´ who came to the so-called ´Pearly Gates´, being so shocked that all this searching would come now to an end? And what did he do? Took his shoes in his hands, to avoid any noise for the Gate Keeper, and ran away as fast as he could.
    That´s a story for the Clown we actually are. At least in our better moments.

    As yearly, and quite so often, I am amazed what young film-makers are bringing to our eyes, concerning also heavy issues. And ever again, I also learn again and again that there is a great difference in between seeing and SEEING. In the latter, the Being resonates, otherwise, when not this way, the communication falls flat and leaves you unsatisfied.

    Yes, it needs conscious effort and the courage to face errors and trials when looking what words are coming and if somebody resonates.
    That´s communion, He said. What a wonderful word.

    Anybody is a Rose-Master, who still practises. Some – like Osho – are unforgettable Master Musicians of communion. He shared with us that also He had had a lot of practising before.

    I loved to read, Chetas, that you are into gardening yourself. My garden looks awful at the moment and for quite a while. Could myself need good tips. And other gardeners’ experience, shared.

    Love

    Madhu

  14. Kavita says:

    Madhu & others, I don’t need to justify my being more friendly with the males in general, but can’t help myself from sharing the fact of my life: my father was the youngest sibling in his family & he married & had me when he was 39 years of age. We lived in a joint family until the first 11 years of my life, my youngest female cousin was 15 years older than me, all were married when l was growing up & on my mother’s side I was the only female child. I had only one younger brother, so in a way I always thought myself as one of the boys. Later, I had a partner who mostly respected my way of life & to add to it I was pampered by all of them, nothing to regret.

    Btw, I do have a few female friends compared to male friends, whom I cherish equally, as much as possible. I feel nurtured here on SN, I’ve enjoyed being here over the years, it has been an extension of the commune which allows me & I allow myself to be myself as much as possible.

  15. shantam prem says:

    “You all are potential buddhas. One day you all will be awakened. If not on Sunday than on Saturday.”
    To hear such a sentence, people sitting close to the master started clapping. Only El Chudo did not.

    Master´s observant eyes saw this, so he asked, “Chuddo, don´t you want to be enlightened?”

    Chudo replied, “Master, I want to be the chairman of the Inner Circle.”

    Master closed his eyes for a second and answered, “For this, I need to consult the Crown Prince.”

    Something like this is the state of work around Osho.

    People like Lokesh call it fantasy when a disciple with his concerned heart says it innocently, ” Yes, I want to be the chairman.”

    A Black can dream and become America´s President, a chai-seller can dream and become India´s Prime Minister, but a lifelong disciple cannot become chairman of an organisation which has lost its way, Shame on all the people who utter the word ‘Osho’.

    And these idiots want to have Nirvana, Moksha, Enlightenment, as it is a Pussy* of some kind!

    *Cat

    • frank says:

      If black man can become President of United States and chai-wallah can become millionaire on TV show, then why not can unemployed brown member in chuddies in front of screen become Dick Rambone?

      Runaway disciples did not stay to hear Osho’s final stage and say:”I leave you my American dream!”

      Very important lifelong concerned disciples innocently claiming, “Yes, I want power because I am powerless” are treated like Indian Guru on Viagra, breaking wind in naked mixed sauna at wellness centre!

      They bring shame on Osho who do not realise that ashram is for sentimental fools and mind-fuckers on bicycles!

  16. lokesh says:

    Chudmeister, you claim to be coming from a state of innocence, which implies, amongst other things, that you are not naive, when in fact you are.

  17. shantam prem says:

    In naivety, I have a diploma in flying colours.

  18. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Thank you, Kavita, for sharing.
    I know it might be ridiculous that I feel better and more understanding when you shared a few bits and ´bones´ about your upbringing, but I do feel better now.

    The way, being ´pampered´ as you described it, I didn´t experience so far, so you may have successfully developed another kind of strength, as I know about.

    We all are unique, aren’t we?
    Looking more balanced – forward to next of your contributions.

    Madhu

  19. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    “They bring shame on Osho who do not realise that ashram is for sentimental fools and mind-fuckers on bicycles!”

    Please elaborate, Frank, what you are up to precisely here with your judgement. Otherwise, it seems to be just hitting for hitting´s sake?

    Another way could just be to shut up and not mingle with stuff (trials and errors, imaginations, fantasies). You indirectly declare not to have ever befallen of such.

    Me, sorry, I doubt the latter.

    Madhu

    • shantam prem says:

      Madhu, were you also laughing when Osho was cracking dirty jokes? Were you laughing on your own or it was a social pressure to giggle?
      To make the question clear, found out one on the net:

      A priest with a huge prick has terrible trouble getting any woman to sleep with him. At the local whorehouse it is always the same answer, “Sorry father, I wish I could, but that monster is much too big for me.”

      In desperation, the priest thinks up a cunning scheme. He visits a whorehouse on the other side of the town where no one knows him, picks out a girl and takes her to the bedroom. Once they are inside, the priest tells the girl he is very shy and then says, “Do you mind if I undress with the lights out?”
      She agrees. Then as he climbs on top of her she says, “Do you know, father, I am really glad this is what you came here for. When you first walked through the door I was sure you were just going to talk to me about…Jesus Christ!”

      One thing is clear, sense of humour is one of the basics of Osho´s No doctrines.

      • prem martyn says:

        I reckon we’re way behind in the Zen comedy stakes…when it comes to giving yourself names and place-names, the Japs got there years ago…

        Try this lot out – notice the guy’s name and the vegan-like named temple he resides in at Kyoto, they must be pissin’ their pants every time they mention someone or something…

        “Oi, Basho-Codji, open your eyes and stop doin’ that or you’ll go blind.”
        “Oh, very funny, Fukushima-ji, but I’m not bothered. Oh, look, your joke has just landed about 150km downwind.”

        http://www.kyotojournal.org/the-journal/spirit/be-a-fool/

        As the Zen master of Tofukuji Monastery, one of Kyoto’s ‘Five Great Temples’, Keido Fukushima-roshi at 56 is one of the youngest men in Japan to fill such a position. A frequent visitor to the U.S., Fukushima-roshi expresses concern about the development of Zen in the West.

  20. Kavita says:

    Yes, Madhu, we are all unique. Thank you for triggering me to this point.

  21. shantam prem says:

    It seems other than India, Russia is the second-biggest market for cults and sects. No wonder, all the therapists and gurus have their shops, kiosks and franchisees.

    Just seen one story about a Russian cult leader. No wonder, if this jerk can earn a decent life out of “We are the one Family” business, why others should feel bad?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2841750/Fast-cars-extravagant-vacations-business-Lavish-lifestyle-cult-leader-linked-death-plunge-Russian-supermodel-New-York-revealed.html

  22. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Just for you, Shantam Prem:

    Hannibal Hayne is in Doctor Feelgood´s office for his annual check up.
    “You won´t live out the week”, says the Doctor, “if you don´t stop running around after women.”
    “But Doc, there is nothing the matter with me”, says Hannibal, pounding his chest with his fist, “I am in great physical shape.”
    “Yes, I know”, replies Doctor Feelgood, “but one of the women is my wife.”

    And another one from ‘Hannibal’, Shantam:

    Hannibal Hayne wakes up one morning and sees that his male member is covered in purple stripes. He rushes to see the Doctor, who tells him that immediate amputation is vital.

    The distressed Hannibal rushes out of the door, muttering that he wants a second opinion. The second Doctor takes one look at the candy-striped organ and tells Hannibal the same thing: “It has to be amputated.”
    Poor Hannibal, not knowing what to do, goes to seek the advice of Wu, the Chinese Master of Healing.
    The wrinkled old man says: “No need for surgery. In two weeks, the problem will be solved.”
    “Wow!” cries Hannibal, “You mean, I will be cured?”
    “No”, says Wu. “Plick will dlop off by itself.”

    Little help from a Friend, Shantam – small excerpts from ‘TAKE IT REALLY SERIOUSLY’, Osho´s big JOKE BOOK (Section: Doctor´s Good Advice).

    And — really enough for today….

    Madhu

    • frank says:

      Folks who think that structured jokes are the be-all and end-all of humour remind me of people who only ever have sex in the missionary position and strictly only for procreation purposes!

      • Kavita says:

        Thank God for Frank, now I know I am not on the wrong path!

        • anand yogi says:

          Be careful, Kavita!
          Do not follow the path laid out by Frank, the depraved baboondog, ex-sannyasin and urinator on holy shrines who has abused the freedom that Osho has given him!
          It is certainly the wrong path and all who follow it will certainly slip on a divine banana skin and fall off a cliff down into bottomless perdition!

          Laughter is perfectly permitted at the correct moment at the end of a correctly constructed joke, as overseen by an enlightened master or one of his authentic and certified successors!

          But those who mistakenly think that they can be ‘a joke unto themselves’ and ‘have a laugh’ at the expense of the wisdom of mighty Bhorat will certainly receive their karmic comeuppance!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!
          Thou art That!
          Jus` like That!

          • Kavita says:

            I am reminded of Osho talking about a piece of art which shows which Chakra of the artist it’s coming from, something on those lines. This I speak for myself regarding Frank. Anyway, we don’t have to justify our each move, it kinda removes the essence of it all.

            You know, Anand Yogi, even though I understand where you coming from, it seems our ways are not the same. I like your guts but that’s about it, for me it ends there.

            All The Best.

            • satyadeva says:

              Not sure I agree there, Kavita, when you look at them closely these two are such very different characters, very different types.

              For me, Anand Yogi is the ‘real deal’, definitely in the 4th or even 5th – in the ‘fiery revolutionary’ phase, you know – whereas Frank mainly resonates on certain lower chakras, only occasionally breaking through into the upper, more rarified realms.

              But perhaps the ‘lower’ is where you feel more ‘comfortable’? If so, then…Frank’s your man! Is not that so, Frank, eh?

              • Arpana says:

                Could you expand on that a bit, SD? Sounds really interesting. Seems so obvious when you put it that way.

                • frank says:

                  Have you ever read ‘A Horse and Two Goats’ by R.K.Narayan?
                  That’s a good one.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Might have, I ‘discovered’ him while in India and enjoyed reading his stuff over there.

                • Arpana says:

                  Frank says:
                  “Have you ever read ‘A Horse and Two Goats’ by R.K.Narayan? That`s a good one.”

                  Arpana says:
                  “Good call.”

                • satyadeva says:

                  Yes, well, Arpana, a crucial point of course is Anand Yogi’s ‘inbuilt’, profound spirituality due to his Indian conditioning, an advantage with which even Frank’s ready wit can not really adequately compete.

                  Add to that, Yogi’s meditative work with Osho in this lifetime and we find a considerable authority that’s hard, even for an articulate westerner to challenge.

                  An experienced, discerning ‘inner sense’ / innocence can readily see that he is in the sort of ‘rajasic’ phase – fiery, passionate, even argumentative – that Osho himself passed through as a young man.

                  My feeling is that Frank would do well to heed the advice of such a one, rather than continuing to attempt to cover up his relative inferiority (re consciousness, not necessarily re intellect) through humour (however superficially impressive his efforts may be).

                  And I trust Kavita reads and meditates on this, as I fear she’s a little confused here.

                • Arpana says:

                  Yes, yes, Satyadeva.
                  If only Frank could face the truth.
                  He might fly higher.

              • Kavita says:

                Anand Yogi is more on the 4th & Frank is definitely on the 5th & I am in between both, so I would rather go ahead.

                SD, you are also in the 5th & so you think that Frank is lower, just so you can go ahead.

                Anyway, only the I really knows where I am or not.

  23. navina says:

    Back to the garden which started the thread. In Poona 1 Osho told his gardeners to let the garden grow naturally. This caused consternation among them. Some tried to follow this instruction. Others went around in secret, yanking out weeds and moving plants around just as before. As usual, it was simply another device.

  24. prem martyn says:

    And news just in…

    Fed up with bath-robe sized clothes and tatami mats to sleep on? Not enough mutual appreciation from fellow self-absorbed shaved heads? Bored of one-word replies to ‘how are you?’ Fed up with nonsensical answers to the simplest questions? Tired of three hour explanations for a one-liner? Does bowing get you down? Have you never really wanted to study how to put rocks on top of each other as a job or a way of life? Can’t stand one more stone-sculpted, friggin’, bollock, bugger, statue of some glaze-eyed, beatific-looking nonce under a tree? Then -

    Perhaps what your local fun-filled, bloke-filled temple is missing is this money-making venture for tactile-y-starved Monk-ey types :

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/woman-opens-professional-cuddling-shop-gets-10000-customers-in-first-week-9870211.html

  25. shantam prem says:

    From their writings I guess Frank and Martyn must be slapping their faces before the shave, “Why the hell I went to that Indian guru at the very first place?”

    • frank says:

      You mean the guy on Viagra who was breaking wind in the mixed naked sauna at the wellness centre?
      Yes,that was pretty unpleasant.
      But, hey-ho, whoever said the path to enlightenment was easy?

  26. shantam prem says:

    Dictionary.com Word of the Day – bovarism: an exaggerated, especially glamorized, estimate of oneself.

    When our Indian spiritual master has been taken behind bars, his disciples are in the state of shock: how come this could happen to their god? He has given so much to us, he liberated our soul.

    In television report I have seen, how big and well managed his ashram was. Thousands of people can eat and sleep every day. There were always 5 to 10 thousand people. Surely these people are not as educated and glamorous and with Hollywood pump and show, but real and alive and simple human beings with a trusting heart.

    This whole drama is touching me for the reason it reminds me of Bhagwan´s Rajneeshpuram stand-off with the laws of the land. Disciples believing for such kind of divine intervention and master in trap taking all kind of ill-fitting advice from his legal team.

    This master of thousands, Rampal, has confessed: “He wanted to surrender before, but he was trapped in MayaJal (Illusion net) of the disciples.”

    When I have seen this Word of the Day – bovarism, it reminds me of something. Lovers, masters and disciples are prone to bovarism.
    Honestly speaking, I am one such.

    Why not confess one´s mistake, specially where parachutes don´t open at the time of need?

    We are all fallible, many of us overestimate our luck.

  27. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    “That Zen master is right…Being in the here and now ain’t what it used to be!” (Frank, author?)

    Friends, that is a profound statement. It is true and not true, existing and not existing, like Schrödinger´s cat (= physics).

    Due to our all ´Awareness Deficiency Syndrome´, as due to many other reasons, the small gap (long ago) in the website of SN contributors’ ponderings about questions of how to cope with the advanced technical possibilities of ´communication´ on the one hand and realty as such (inside-outside), as limited entities, on the other hand.

    As individuals – losing (often) abilities to connect, as well as to hold an awareness line to an issue, to each other – AND – the issue – long enough.

    So the chat-gap was soon closed again. But lurking vividly underneath like a current, I feel it constantly and it sometimes irritates me, sometimes not.

    Remember Arpana’s piece of ART in the earlier thread? Do You? Amongst other former efforts, being drowned (suffocated) soon by the next wave of Tsunami kind of bits and above all also ´bytes’ ( = bitings – bites).

    Pity…but that´s the way it is.

    To ponder about a GARDEN, either evergreen like plastic, either having the smell of Nature in remembrance, either cultivated or not cultivated, or checking out what human ´chakra´ is triggered by what, and when, and how, (and results of that passed to whom)…

    That all leaves what I call ´me´ at the moment with one question:
    Is the unifying strength to understand that the Ocean is salty, wherever you taste it, still a unifying Peace and Silence ´facilitator´? For humanly humans?

    And does it give space to the experience that we are the garden, the gardeners who work in the garden, those who enjoy the garden AND those who enjoy being part of a whole, in terms of understanding? (All of it).

    Or have we already mutated into particles, lost in (virtual) spaces? With this Deficiency syndrome I mentioned?

    Yes, lots of gardens there, but none of the virtual will bring real fruits? (And I don´t speak of apples or cranberries or pruning just now). Is that so?

    Needs a lot of Trust and Courage from my side to write here, this late afternoon.

    The virtual ocean neither salty nor unsalty, nor it has space or place.

    The garden inside myself is empty and yet full; but I know that I am in need of a gardener´s gentle counsel, every now and then and again.
    A gardener who does not boast about his heavy electronic machinery, if you know what I mean. A gardener who knows the art of sharing his skills.

    Met a wise woman the last decades, She reminded me this way:
    “If nobody is there to share with you what you are longing to share – there’s one left, and that is you´(to do it – or let it happen).”

    The virtual playground SEEMS to be a playground where this can be thoroughly experienced anyway.

    BUT – yes – it needs a lot of Trust to write here.
    Also because responses ARE coming in the not virtual way, as a byproduct of a total loss of control who and where and what (!) is reading.
    And these kinds of responses happen to be more like these gardeners often here to be seen as to experience ´cultivating gardens´ – military style – with a lot of really heavy electric-electronic machinery.

    And some of them don´t give any sign that they are in love of Nature.

    This evening, Friends, I feel like a dry leaf, being taken by the wind.
    The summer was full – the trees unburden themselves, taking all their strength inside to go for the ´born again´ rhythm.
    In city life, people of Lifestyle businesses quite often go for evergreens.

    Dry leaves are consciousness as well. Chatting a little while, how it was/it is going, then there are coming the winds of the tides, taking that away also (Lifestyle enterprises accelerate the latter with electronic machinery (very noisy).

    Yes, to stay connected with that, what a GARDEN IS, is not that easy today.
    At least for me.

    Dry leaves – love-chat-murmur – November´s association…

    From

    Madhu´s inner listenings.

    Tomorrow is another day, with-or-without-me – and?
    In love of the Master gardener/s is ´me´.

  28. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    P.S:
    Even more dry peace after murmurings…

    Do you remember Lady Fresch having adored ‘HER’, that piece? What kind of a garden business is that? Does anyone know? And give a hint to live, while experiencing that?

    And know what?

    The fact that that kind of procedure swallows Human Nature (garden of Hu-Man) any day more than the yesterdays concerning the gardening that I would call ´human’.

    (Please spare me your boo boos)….

  29. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    P.S:
    ZEN GARDEN?
    It’s about spaciousness – and it’s an ART – to be able to create that, even and especially then, when there seems to be no space at all.
    Night watch cloud.

    Now I can have a rest.

    Madhu

  30. Kavita says:

    Since last week, in Pune we were having humidity, now since last night it feels like winter is setting. Feels like I need to hibernate – from SN.

  31. Kavita says:

    SD, I shall meditate, not because you think I am confused but because I need to. Thank you, anyway.

    Would like to know where you are in all this, according to you.

  32. shantam prem says:

    Hibernate:
    To pass the winter in a dormant or torpid state.
    To be in an inactive or dormant state or period.
    To withdraw or be in seclusion; retire.

    Thanks, Kavita, for this new word I have learned today.

    In astrology, it is similar to period of Saturn, when green is covered in snowfall. Nothing grows, one has to rely upon the savings for the rainy seasons.

    Jupiter stands for the sprouting of the seeds, spring, and in spiritual structures, master and his presence.

    The death or the absence of the master is a stern Saturn phase. You know yourself how many of our beloved friends and including us are living in the state of Hibernation.

    I am touched by this word.

    Here is one Kindergarten song, take it with you, my sister-like Friend, Kavita…

    Immer wieder kommt ein neuer Frühling,
    (Always and again comes a new spring)
    immer wieder kommt ein neuer März.
    (Always comes a new March)
    Immer wieder bringt er neue Blumen,
    (Always and again it brings new flowers)
    immer wieder Licht in unser Herz.
    (lways and again new light in our heart).

  33. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    “…Would like to know where you are in all this, according to you….”

    Kavita, your question:

    Would like to share with you that I share this ´need´ you spoke of too.
    I have been looked at and interpreted for quite a while in the Ashram and other meeting places of THIS, as one who is in the ´crying game´. As it was evident that sometimes just tears were coming – Tears of Gratitude, misinterpreted often as tears of sadness (got my nicknames then).

    Truth is, that in going INSIDE and also sitting amongst others, letting same to BE, I felt HOME, and know ever more that this is the only HOME we might have.

    It´s very precious to get into that space, which indeed is none.

    Besides being with Osho and His caravan, I only experienced that visiting Mother Meera or also visiting the disciples’ Meetings of a Tibetan Rinpoche (in ´Rigpa´). Not to forget the incidents when I am listening to a Concert every now and then with others who know to be Silent.

    (I got a lot, still get more than a lot of quite nasty kind of interpretations).

    I know that looking for a space where to enjoy that with others, what I call a ´Buddhafield`, has been getting more and more difficult to manage for me.

    From your last lines, I interpret that you are staying in Pune just now – or maybe all the time while writing here?

    To ponder about a ´who is who´ and ´enlightenment ratings´ I have never been interested and it’s not my cup of tea. The symptom though, that this is happening so far and so often, shows for me a misunderstanding of what Osho was about as also other Masters of Meditation, who are no charlatans (up to power and religious politics etc.).

    To melt into acceptance also about a loss of joining somewhere with Friends of This is the challenge I am in, since many years. Life has to look for others ways – like the water which is simply running, and the challenge is, not to fight with obstacles (I often fail concerning that). Yet keeping the flow by Heart as to best capacity. Learning by the water. So the river in this city is such a good teacher.

    I wish you very well, wherever you are, Kavita – and the other caravanserai visitors or contributors here too,
    according to the issue, to cope with any obstacles the one or the other might have to face – like me – too.

    Love

    Madhu

  34. Kavita says:

    Madhu, I shall reply to you, just for clarity’s sake.

    This started with Anand Yogi’s comment, then my response to him & SD questioning me. Hope you have the time to re-read all that.

    (MOD: KAVITA, WE’RE NOT RE-POSTING ALL THESE EXCHANGES! MADHU CAN FIND THEM EASILY ENOUGH IF SHE WISHES).

    Now this is my comment made on 24th November, 8am, Pune, India:
    I am not a lawyer, but self-defence is a natural process. As I am not an immaculate conception, nor do I have the need to claim I am one.

    Thank you, Madhu.

  35. Kavita says:

    Thank you, Marty, I enjoyed the video, I consider myself lucky to have seen his art physically, when I was in Europe in my early twenties.

    Thank you, Shantam, my soul brother.

    Thank you, SN / Parmartha, for allowing us to pour in whatever we have to offer, as much as you can.

  36. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    “I am not a lawyer, but self-defence is a natural process. As I am not an immaculate conception, nor do I have the need to claim I am one.”

    Uuh, uuuh, Kavita.

    What for is that?
    MAMA MIA…this is shooting with strong bullets…
    As I find out the last decades, women have their ways to approach others of their same sex quite ´manly´.

    Uhhh, uuuuh.

    Madhu

  37. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    P.S:
    BUUUH exclaim! On the playing field of unfair kicking(s) – exclaim! From my side up to another ´nowhere land´, wherever that is, in Pune or elsewhere!

    Madhu

  38. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Aaah, thank you, Kavita.

    Indeed, I read all the exchanges you mentioned and even took another effort just now to show up with it, AND thank you, indeed, to borrow me for the tinge being YOUR spectacles.
    That´s fair enough – (MODS) – and Kavita, thank you too.

    NO, no other tangent, I am on as you presumed, just another exemplar of the species.
    Once again, we are unique, and we are blessed ones too. (I am stubborn, you see) and sometimes quite nice to borrow spectacals from each other, and thank you for this.

    However, there IS another way of using ´eyesight´.
    NO, I don´t want you to use the word ´love´ when you don´t feel it.
    You took it wrong, I would say, and any time you may ask me for some of my spectacles, I have in my suitcases while travelling in virtual caravanserais.

    Love

    Madhu

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