A Number of the interviews from Osho’s World Tour (circa 85/86) have never seen the light of day.
We are not sure where Osho was on Dec 10th, 1985 but an English Sunday Times reporter managed to interview him on that day.
One of our SN researchers managed to find this transcipt. Here is the first section of it.
Q: CAN I BEGIN BY ASKING YOU ABOUT WHAT’S HAPPENING
NOW? IS THIS THE BEGINNING OF ANOTHER COMMUNE?
A: It’s always difficult for me to say anything about the future. I
have lived my whole life moment to moment without any planning,
without ever thinking of the morrow. So something must be
beginning but I cannot say what it is.
Q: BUT I’VE READ REPORTS BHAGWAN THAT YOU’RE
LOOKING OR DISCIPLES OR YOUR FOLLOWERS ARE
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING (INAUDIBLE).
A: Yes. My friends are looking because they are not living moment
to moment. Nobody listens me.
Q: SEEMS TO ME THAT A GREAT MANY PEOPLE LISTEN TO
YOU.
A: No. They hear me but listening is very difficult.
Q: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THE DIFFERENCE IS?
A: Everybody who has normal ears can hear but listening needs
something more than ears. It needs a silent mind behind it.
Listening means you are not interfering in any way, not
interpreting, not saying yes, not saying no, neither believing it nor
disbelieving it. Simply listening the way mirror reflects. Only out of
such listening, understanding arises.
Understanding is not a belief. The person who only hears may
start believing in it but believing is not understanding. It is blind.
Q: DOESN’T UNDERSTANDING LEAD TO BELIEF(*)?
A: No. Understanding is yours. You may have listened to me, you
may have listened to the sound of the running water, you may
have listened to thousands of things, but understanding is yours,
belief you simply heard and borrowed it without bothering even to
listen what you are believing in.
The world is full of believers but the world is not full of
understanding.
Q: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS A MAN WHO HAS
BELIEFS?
A: I don’t have any belief and I am against all beliefs. Belief as
such is poison.
Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY BELIEF IN AMERICA WHEN YOU WENT
THERE?
A: No. I have never had any belief in my whole life. I have lived as
an agnostic.
Q: THEN WHAT DREW YOU TO AMERICA?
A: America is new, only three hundred years old. The whole world
is very old. A country like India is very ancient. Its conditionings
have gone very deep, they have become its blood, bones, its very
marrow.
I wanted to see how a new mind, unburdened from the past
responds to me. Unfortunately even three hundred years are old
enough.
Q: HOW DO YOU MEAN… OLD ENOUGH TO FORM THE
SOCIETY WHICH HAS ANTAGONISTIC IDEAS TO YOU?
A: Yes. It has already prejudices. And it was a great revelation that
because its beliefs are new, it is more fanatic about them.
Q: WHAT DO YOU THINK AMERICA BELIEVES IN?
A: First, it believes in a rotten Christianity. At least in the old world
there are other religions to create doubt. For example, in India
there are so many religions that nobody can safely believe. From
everywhere there is criticism.
America can believe in Christianity without any criticism and
whenever there is no criticism of your belief you started thinking as
if this is the truth.
Criticism is absolutely necessary to keep people alert, not falling
into the sleep of blindness, unconscious faith.
Even the very intelligent people in America came across and I was
surprised, I could not believe that a well educated man, a
professor in the university, tells me that Bible is the word of God. I
asked him, “Do you know that Hindus believe Vedas are the words
of God, Mohammedans believe that the Koran is the word of God,
and all the religions have their own holy book. On what criterion
you choose which one is right? Because they are all contradicting
each other. And on what grounds you can say that Bible is the
word of God?”
And his answer was so stupid. He said, “Because it is written in
the Bible. ”
I said, “It is like a man who told to his friends that my wife is the
most beautiful woman in the world.”
The friend said, “But how you came to know about it?”
He said, “My wife said it to me herself.”
Q: SUCH CERTAINTY? WAS THAT A COMMON EXPERIENCE
FOR YOU IN AMERICA?
A: Very common. I have not seen very intelligent people.
Q: DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ROTTEN
CHRISTIANITY AND LESS ROTTEN CHRISTIANITY, OR DO
YOU THINK ALL CHRISTIANITY IS ROTTEN?
A: All Christianity is rotten because it is based on very idiotic belief
systems. For example, it believes that God created the world four
hundred, four thousand four years before Jesus Christ was born.
Now that is sheer nonsense. That means the world is only six
thousand years old and we have proofs in the pyramids that they
are far older than the world of the Christians.
We have proof in the Rig Veda that it is far older than the world of
the Christians. We have proof in the cities like Harrapur and
Mohanjodro in Pakistan that they are at least seven thousand
years old. And now we know that there are skeletons found which
are thousands of year old and Christianity still goes on believing
that the world was created four hundred, four thousand four years
before Jesus Christ — they have not changed it.
Q: I THINK VERY FEW CHRISTIANS NOW HOLD THAT BELIEF.
I MEAN POSSIBLY FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS IN
OREGON DID BUT I THINK THAT CHRISTIANS (INAUDIBLE)
A: No, very few Christians know what Christianity is. That also
shows a very unintelligent state. You call yourself Christian and
you don’t know what is means.
Q: BUT IS THIS, IS THIS THE REASON THAT YOU HAD TO
LEAVE THE UNITED STATES? DO YOU BELIEVE IT WAS SOME
KIND OF CHRISTIAN PLOT TO MAKE YOU LEAVE?
A: That was one of the reasons. There was a Christian pressure
because people who were coming to me cannot remain Christians,
cannot remain Jews, cannot remain Hindus.
I am not telling them to drop anything, I am simply making them
aware that anything that you have not discovered on your own
cannot be a truth that liberates, it can only be a lie that binds you
and makes you a mental slave.
My whole approach is of deprogramming people and I don’t have
any programme of my own. So I simply deprogramme — whether
you are a Christian or a Hindu or a Mohammedan, it doesn’t
matter. You may be a communist or a fascist. I simply
deprogramme you and leave you clean and innocent as you were
born.
Osho, then known as Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, was in Kulu/Manali, India, 10 December 1985.
On 8th or 9th December, 1985, I had the opportunity to have darshan of Osho when he walked among few hundred people at a tourist resort near Manali.
On 11th December, there was a small Birthday celebration and as I remember, his brother’s wife, Priya (now one of the three main pillars in Osho dhara movement) was singing,
“Janam din aaj Bhagwan ko mubarak ho mubarak ho” (Happy Birthday version in Hindi)
After that, some sweets were distributed.
With a contented heart, I could sit in the bus and reached home, Chandigarh.
22 at that time, 51 now..
Few memories remain as a dim bulb on the tower light.
A nice memory, Shantam.
I thought, Shantam, it might be instructive to summarise how Osho arrived at Kulu Manali:
On 17 November, 1985, Osho arrived in Delhi (from America) where many Indian sannyasins greeted him. He did give a press conference in Delhi and then continued to Kulu Manali.
Osho stayed in ‘Span Resort’ there, on the condition he did not hold large meetings, so he greeted visiting sannyasins only on his daily walks.
Separately to this on 19th November, Osho began regular press interviews, but as I understand it just a few sannyasins were present to abide with the management regime of the Spa.
Here’s a question from that time:
“In Manali seventeen years ago you spoke. Was that one of your first meetings?”
Osho’s answer: “Not my first meetings but the first time I started the movement of Sannyas. And it seems we have come round the whole circle.”
Question: “Is that what drew you back to this place?”
Osho: “Yes, I love this place.”
At the instuctions of Osho, His PR sannyasins went to each and every relevant person to get some kind of permission to build a small commune in the state of Himachal Pardesh. Kulu Manali are the districts of this state.
They were willing to give undertaking that commune will abide by the social customs of the state and there will be no provocation of any kind to local values. It means tag of love guru will be removed.
Osho even suggested how beneficial it will be for the tourism purpose as his people will bring know-how and self-financed commune will generate employment for local youth.
Alas, conservative Hindu state simply rejected each and every conciliatory gesture. I think even the central government did not give any push. For India, Osho was a citizen, but of bad reputation, who tarnished India´s image abroad.
This is still the situation. Osho is almost ignored. Osho World people roll on the floor before 3rd rung of politicians with the request, please, say few good words about Osho.
Recently, Narendra Modi was in USA. All the media and business tycoons are in praise and also don´t forget to remind how Vivekananda got the similar response in 1893 during world parliament of religions. Osho is mentioned nowhere and by nobody who matters a bit in social-political circles.
Blame is not just on the Indian elites. Fight among the different factions of disicples has solidified India´s position: “Osho is Acharya Rajneesh with mesmerising oratory skills. Nothing more.”
This can be one of the reasons Indian system does not go against Jayesh regime. They agree on basic point, Project Osho as profilic book author and forget anything to project him with India´s greatest spiritual sons.
Are the words spoken by Osho the only thing worth preserving?
Was He a wordsmith?
Has Osho said something like, “My words are my legacy”?
To see that his young, vibrant and jolly son has become influenced by the book of an Acharya and is preparing to leave the country, first of all father became happy – “At least my child is not going the Isis way” – but then his wisdom took over and he said, “My child, why don’t you wait few years more for the last book of Acharya? The essence of the message will be in that one.”
“And what it can be?” the young one enquired.
With a smile on the face, father said, “99.9% He is going to say, “No need to go anywhere, to anyone. You will feel me in the pages of my books.”
Some, both sannyasins and not, who are interested in Osho, are not fully aware that Osho was talking to the Press in some of his ‘World Tour’. These Press Conferences were, as far as I know, nearly all recorded and transcribed.
To me, and this is no disrespect to our Indian friends, I feel the publication of these would be very valuable, and more valuable if given a choice, than the translations of old lectures from the very early Osho. Both are, of course, of great value.
I am not sure what is the resistence to publishing further press conferences etc.from that time.
A small number have been published called ‘The Man of Truth, A Majority of One’ (by Osho), but clearly those who hold the transcripts have some doubts about the rest of them. I cannot for the life of me understand such doubts.
Viha Connection have copies of those that have been published. The other sub-title is ‘The Last Testament : Interviews With The World’s Press’.
Reading the above interview does not leave me feeling inspired, perhaps because this is not Osho at a paricularly inspiratonal moment in his life.
I also find it hard to swallow that Osho lived his lfe without any planning. In fact, I would go so far as to say this is untrue. That is easy to say now that he is no longer around. Were he alive he would have been easily capable of producng a convincing argument that he never made any plans. And I would have found it totally acceptable. Such was his power.
He had a game plan. Yeah.
Once a game of chess has begun, the game can be completed without pre- planning though. We just bring all our skills, awareness, into any given moment of the game, play the game in the moment.
Yes, but in chess you don`t usually get taken by your own queen.
The really good games are not the ones where you play to win, but the ones where you keep on playing in order to keep on playing. They are not finite, they are horizonal…which means that no matter what point you get to, you never reach the end, you always still have the horizon in front of you….
God, but you’re deep, Frank!
Frank can be tested, he may not be the owner of these truths, he may have gone to the library and have them out on loan, with someone else’s library ticket.
Online it’s very difficult to establish not only truth, but the veracity of who is saying it. I have therefore great pleasure in providing this easy to answer lie detection home-test kit, which will help enormously in determining if you love BS or are a genuine TS, Truth Seeker.
It comes free with a Build-Yourself-A-World-Famous-News-Conference kit for re-enacting important news events, and with a free photo backdrop of Annapurna and the smell of diesel and acrid burning mixed refuse for testing associative memory and smells.
http://liespotting.com/liespotting-basics/quiz/
Marty,
I must admit that I have oftentime slipped out of a library or a bookshop with words, ideas, phrases or even whole philosophies hidden under my hat, concealed under a cloak of insouciance or even stuffed clumsily down the front of my trousers…
When I get home, I retrieve them and place them on a bookshelf in my mind under the heading ‘My Ideas’ and congratulate myself on the fruits of my own genius.
The `horizonal games` rap is one such, the real author being James Carse. Finite and Infinite Games, although of course, after being stuffed down your trousers for a while, they do become imbued with a certain personal flavour.
However, the idea of Osho being taken by his own queen in a celestial game of chess was one of mine.
Chapeau, Frank…(it could have been one of Parmartha’s, until I noticed the absence of a batting aphorism and mild clapping from the Oval end).
Re Chess and Allusion…
My own memory is triggered by something I registered but can’t remember where from, that the origin of Chess was not only, as myth would have it, a form of strategic combat, but rather has sources in this originally ancient Indian thence Afghani-metaphored game as the King in search of the mystical Beloved who is rendered immobile by her in the words ‘check mate’ and is consumed and disappears into her.
The evolution of its further Persian linguistic development is ‘Checkmate’:
“This is a term in chess. It is from the Farsi language spoken in Iran and Afghanistan. The original phrase is SHAH-K-MATE (every syllable pronounced) which means ‘The King is Dead’.
The word SHAH means a ‘king” as in the last monarch (or SHAH) of Iran. MATE has the same root as the English ‘murder’ and the Spanish ‘matador (killer).
The word came via French (where the SH became a CH) and into English where the MA-TE (two syllables) became MATE (one syllable) to give CHECKMATE.”
But note here that ‘the king is dead’ is even more precisely determined and tallies with that initial notion:
“Back in the Middle East, the Persians fell in love with Chess and began to further develop its rules. (The Persians name for chaturanga changed to shatranj). Participates began to shout out Shah! (King in Persian) and Shah Mat! (the king is helpless).”
Sources:
https://roberthorvat30.wordpress.com/2014/05/30/chess-a-brief-history-of/
And here,other relevance on the historic symbolism of the Queen:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/23/books/review/23SCHILLI.html
Don´t you think, Lokesh, that Osho´s convincing power backfired? To convince followers (sorry, no followers) is one thing, the others need more than words salad!
In hindsight and even now, few disciples give the impression it is Osho who is holding the strings of the world. All new creations are taking place because of Sannyas, all destructive things are happening because of those blind followers of Others!
Something definitely backfired although it is difficult to put one’s finger on it in so many words. As for some disembodied entity called Osho pulling invisible strings, I simply don’t go for that. If people need to put a name on God, cosmic consciousness, Existence etc., that is their business.
As for, and I quote, “All destructive things are happening because of those blind followers of Others!” I see no need to blame anyone or anything. As the popular bumper sticker reads, Shit Happens. We live in a world peopled by sleepwalkers and therefore it is hardly surprising that destruction occurs on a purely human level, not to mention environmental etc. If one were to suddenly awaken to the depth of human sleep and unconsciousness that exists on this planet the impact of such a revelation and its accompanying horror has the capacity to drive one insane.
“Yes, but in chess you don`t usually get taken by your own queen.” Maybe even Shakespeare couldn’t have come up with such a line!
Yes, that is a good one. Poignant!
Real life is more than chess. Here, one´s own queen can kick on the butt and checkmate!
If someone reads all the press interviews, all of Osho´s Hindi books and English books, will that give a degree to add some abbreviation with one´s name, for example: En. Jai Ho!? (En. means Enlightened)
Matter of the fact is Osho´s words have become the very hindrance in His own work. His disciples are in love with them. Many times it gives the impression someone married with Barbie dolls!
Friends,
The first ´Ice Bucket Challenge´ for a wake-up-get-up call is said to have happened around the fifth or sixth ´century BC when – how the story goes – Lao Tzu was refreshed by Chuang Te Tzu like this.
The Founder of Taoism (DAO or WU WEI – how the unnameable is called by now), Lao Tzu, had dreamt to be a butterfly…and his disciples had waited for the Master in vain.
To end up in an American kind of ´scripted reality´ like ´House of Cards´, imagining to ´play´ as a gamer, while other entities cast their votes, imagining they are journalists, seems to me not a good alternative at all to wake up from a dream, but just the opposite, to create a never-ending nightmare (as the 21st century Hollywood series about a ´card-house´ promises the users and interactors/dreamers).
How about an Ice Bucket Challenge honouring Lao Tzu and Chang Tzu?
Seems to be more sane – and leading to sanity.
Madhu
Lao-Tsu in an ice-bucket challenge? Maddie, at last you are starting to talk some sense.
And how about a wet t-shirt ice-bucket challenge for female mystics, too? That might boost flagging interest in Osho’s work. At the Resort with Shantam as the main judge. Enlightenment`s got talent…
And what about a no-holds barred cage-fighting competition to decide who takes control of Osho’s legacy? Pay-per-view, of course. That would get some badly-needed bums on seats for Osho TV.
Lawyers away!
Round one!
Yahoo!
Excellent ideas, Madhu and Frank! That’s what I call thinking beyond the bucket, close to the cage, outside the box…
Your decades of meditation are bearing fruit and such creative thinking should reap its just rewards. Why not ask Shantam to recommend you for ‘advisory roles’ over there in Pune? They’ll listen to him…surely?
The first part of the interview is Osho at his best. Through the the vast medium of the Press and his own people he doubts that anyone has truly heard him.
As I understand it, this doubt followed him throughout his life. Was there anyone truly getting him?
Did we hear and understand? His genius was to offer so many ways and techniques to understand him?
His contradictions were part of that teaching. I loved the way he changed his mind and showed me the folly of all my beliefs, including most importantly my belief in “him” and in myself as well.
Osho, you know exactly what I mean, thanks for the ride.
Simond declares, “I loved the way he changed his mind and showed me the folly of all my beliefs, including most importantly my belief in “him” and in myself as well.”
And thus betrays the fact that he has fallen prey to the world of contradictory doublespeak. Or else else how could he make such an absurd statement about himself? For it requires a definite belief in himself to say such a thing. I recommend a daily dose of self-enquiry. No need for extra sleep as he is obviously enjoying enough of that.
Lokesh,
As it happens for me, I can speak about the folly of my beliefs only because I have discovered the difference between believing something and knowing something. Once you know something as true it remains true, but belief is of the mind.
I trust that makes sense to you.
Regards.
Simond
Well…ehm…some folk know a lot but come up short on the being side of things and thus understand little.
Other folk don’t know much but are pretty developed when it comes to being, yet they understand little also.
Then, once in a while, there is someone who knows a lot and has also developed their being and you call that a person of understanding. These people often go unnoticed due to living quietly without the need of proclaiming what they have attained in terms of inner development.
THAT`S ME!!!!
OH NO IT ISNT!!!
This is you, Frank.
Outside the pub on a Saturday night pickin’ fights with everyone…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03hnvId5TeY
Simond.
When you say that Osho showed you the folly of ALL your beliefs, does that include the ultimate folly of a belief in consciousness after the death of the physical body?
Swami Anand Anubodh,
There are so many ways to answer your question. In the main, I don’t think about the subject. And I have no knowledge of what happens after my death. I can only know a thing if it is true in my experience, and there are so many varied beliefs about the subject to offer me little guidance.
My own experience is that life never ends. That’s true with all the mini-deaths that I have experienced in this lifetime. However deathly a feeling or experience, I have always found myself ‘alive’ afterwards. Logically then, consciousness never dies. What’s your experience?
Hello Simond,
Your mention of ‘mini-deaths’ and ‘deathly feeling’ reminded me of experiences I used to have many years ago called ‘Night Terrors’.
Suddenly waking up in the night paralysed with fear, unable to breathe because of a great weight pressing down on my chest. Feeling a very ominous presence in the darkness but unable to scream for help. Genuinely believing I was going to die.
Then suddenly, always waking up ‘alive’ again.
I used to take the consistency of NT’s as proof that there was more than just the physical body and that started me off on the path that finally led to Osho.
I later realised I had been mistaken and that NT’s are produced by the subconscious mind as a legacy of events that happened in our distant evolutionary past.
The ego desperately wants to believe in ‘eternal consciousness’ because it knows that’s a place where it will find an everlasting, unassailable sanctuary.
Hi Anand Anubodh,
Thanks for replying with such honesty.
Your night tremors sound scary and I hope they have passed. I imagine in your research to discover the cause you discussed them with others and realised your experiences were shared by others. I had similar experiences as a child. I particularly remember the feeling of pressure on my chest and also recurring nightmares.
Darkness and being alone made them worse.
The lack of conscious reflection from parents and teachers was so imbibed in me, I just knew I could never talk about the horrors of the dark. The experiences were too subjective for me, and I had no language to truly express them.
This seems to have affected many people of my generation, but you can see it all around us and the pattern is repeated in almost all cultures. There is a fear of the dark, the unknown and the mystery of innocent unconsciousness within us, and without; in every culture I have explored.
Some children, of course, are more loved than others, and some have parents with whom we could find reassurance, but like you, the need in me to find out what was at the bottom of my almost primal fear, led me to personal development, Osho and others.
As I see it, the overall question was the need to ‘solve’ the problem of isolation, loneliness and the dilemma about the ‘space’ within me.
I was interested that you “later realised I had been mistaken and that NT’s are produced by the subconscious mind as a legacy of events that happened in our distant evolutionary past.”
I’m not sure exactly what you mean? It has a ring of truth about it, in the sense that you may mean that as part of the evolutionary past we learned to fear the dark, because we associate it in some way with danger, with animals that may hunt us down, and in particular with the unknown etc. Is this what you are referring to?
If so, I’m sure you are right, but I’ve found that my fears can’t always be explained by evolutionary theory. I’m also afraid for other reasons. I sense that as a child, I’m closer to, a victim even, of the vast open space within me, and at the same time I’m deeply afraid of it. As I age and move into thinking and rationalising, so my fears appeared to disappear. I’m taught there aren’t such things as ghosts, and both the sense of mystery and the unknown are reduced as fears for me.
But, what has happened in me and in others is that we have buried our fears, repressed them and denied them. And our ultimate fear, and the fear most expressed in my nightmares and your NT’s, is death. The realisation that we are going to die.
As you yourself concluded, “The ego desperately wants to believe in ‘eternal consciousness’ because it knows that’s a place where it will find an everlasting, unassailable sanctuary.”
If I’ve understood you correctly, you now believe that there is no place after death, and in one way you are correct, once a physical body or an idea has died, it is dead. It cannot live again. As you explore one idea after another, so many ‘ideas’, feelings and the sense of ‘who I am’ also dies.
We keep being re-born, sometimes with new and even ‘cleverer’ ideas, but we are constantly refashioning or re- creating ourselves. As I understand it, this process lives on forever. Of course, after physical death I have no knowledge of where that may lead. Indeed, as you indicate, it may lead nowhere, there may be no ‘grand plan’, no purpose, all is meaningless and no “eternal consciousness”, as you put it.
However limited my earthly existence is, I do sense a greater mystery to this though. I don’t believe in any God or higher power and I’m aware of the desire of my ego to seek a place of sanctuary.
But my experience suggests that every time I have died to an idea of who and what I am, every time I have felt lost and felt the presence of death, so I have also been reborn. Every time I wake up in the morning, having been unconscious and asleep, I am awake and alive again. Whether this continues in some form after physical death, I don’t yet know. Who cares, if I have lived and loved to the best of my ability in this life?
Night terrors are when you wake up and your body is still in a state of `sleep paralysis`, that`s why you get the pressing feeling on the chest and you can`t move. It’s a kind of glitch in the system and quite common. In the Middle Ages they thought that the Devil had got them in a pin-fall.
The evolutionary explanation is that sleep paralysis developed because otherwise, when dreaming, we (and all mammals) wouldn’t just be lying in bed, we would act out our dreams, thus the night-time streets would be a riot of people running away from wild animals, jumping out of windows, fighting, attempting to fly, trying to throttle their mothers-in-law, and Shantam would be out and about in his mal-fitting chuddies, chasing through the streets of Jullundur in hot pursuit of Kate Winslet and Heidi Klum….
Which might look something like this, maybe…
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Simond.
I have taken my time to go carefully through what you have written.
I do believe that NT’s are a legacy of relentless night-time predation against countless generations of early humans. That’s why different cultures over thousands of years have reported the same experience. We all have the same ancestors.
It is well known that the body is put into a state of paralysis when we sleep to stop us acting out our dreams. I trust my own experience that the weight on the chest is the subconscious replicating what it believes to be some type of big cat just about to kill its capture. Which is why they are so frightening as there will be no mercy or escape.
Much of what you’ve said seems to relate to loneliness, darkness and fear.
We know the universe is a vast, dark, cold, mostly empty, space. So maybe the universe itself feels lonely? I just accept that loneliness may be a fundamental characteristic of existence. Or more accurately, the price you pay for consciousness.
Fear is more difficult to quantify as it is relative. (I fear QPR dropping back down to the Championship, but should that count?)
When I realised that there was no after-life many of my fears simply vanished.
Arps recently posted a link to a book, and scrolling the quotes this is the only one that stood out for me: “Enlightenment is the ego’s ultimate disappointment” -Trungpa Rimpoche.
Nothing continues after the death of the physical body. I am telling you explicitly what this guy is telling you indirectly.
Anubodh,
I see what you are driving at.
One thing I don’t get….
If the NTs are a result of historic continuous attacks from wild beasts,why would the NT be experienced in the chest area,as big cats,for example, habitually attack from the side or back?
so unless prehistoric humans always slept on their backs,i don`t see it….
Dear Anand Adubodh,
Thanks for your response and it’s been helpful for me to read what you’ve written. It’s given me more of an understanding of NT’s, an area that I haven’t really experienced.
”You don’t have to be mad to write here, but it helps”.
Yes, it probably does, Martyn. As to what it actually helps is not so clear.
You would feel at home in the neighborhood I am living here, Frankie, and one can say some of your ´creative gaming skills´ are brought on daily gaming stage here.
Your mind-set is very common – not to say average – nowadays.
Too bad for me that I can´t find even a spur of humour in this kind of mind set-up and acting according to this.
Yes, you would be very much acquainted with the neighborhood I am in – for some years now.
Some days – like today (in your posting) it is the most evident.
Too bad (for me).
Madhu
Can anyone tell me, please, what are ´NT ´s` ?
Madhu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_terror
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavor_nocturnus
Frank. (or if you prefer ‘Frankie’)
Here’s a more detailed version of my understanding of NTs.
Big cats (say lions) as you say, do habitually stalk and attack from the side or back. But that is only part of the story. Once the kill is over other lions will come to eat.
Game animals would have been the lions’ preferred target, but early humans would still be vulnerable, especially at night when the hunting takes place and the humans sleep.
The foetal is the safest sleeping position as vital areas like throat and stomach are protected. Possibly very few humans were actually killed by night-time predation, but the threat, the danger, the menace, was always lurking in the darkness. Any moment, you might be ripped to pieces by something you cannot even see. And this would have been the case for countless generations.
These days, the conscious mind has forgotten all these ancient dangers, so you may choose to sleep in a relaxing supine position. At some point in the night you wake and during the usually smooth transition from sleep to wakefulness the subconscious (acting on instinct, not logic) may remember the risks and try to move your body to the safer foetal position. Forgetting to disengage the paralysis that stops us from acting out our dreams. Safety is its priority. The conscious mind will then feel the imperative to move but cannot.
In my experience this is the trigger for Night Terrors.
Panic feeds back to the subconscious, convincing it you are on some dark savannah tens of thousands of years ago, falling prey to some kind of animal standing on your chest to stop you escaping.
A quote from the Wikipedia link Arpana posted:
“There is a sense that the individual is trying to protect himself and/or escape from a possible threat which threatens bodily injury.”
I started to do martial arts at around the same time I was experiencing NTs, and a technique we practised involved defence against someone holding you down and trying to strangle you. I just made some simple connections.
In the interview Osho speaks of the importance of understanding over belief. This understanding cured me of NTs. ‘Believers’ may say ‘No, they are the work of the supernatural (or attempted alien abductions)
I find my explanation more plausible. That’s all I claim.
Many children suffer NTs and the first point of contact for any help is a doctor. If medical science accepted my explanation then that doctor would have to explain to the parents NTs happen because their child is a product of evolution.
But what if the parents are (as many would be) religious?
Yes, it`s certainly more plausible than any `religious`/psychic attack/alien abduction explanation.
Just a thought…
If lions, tigers, leopards etc., had all been vegetarian, humans would still have evolved. But maybe into a world with no concept of evil or the devil, and therefore no religions.
(So we know who to blame).