Are Osho Meditation Camps still functional?

 We received this text below, which deserves discussion, even though we at SN may not agree with it!

PRESENT DAY ‘OSHO MEDITATION CAMPS’

TAKING OSHO’S VISION IN THE WRONG DIRECTION?
About thirty years back Osho’s vision had become a worldwide phenomena. During these past thirty years His message of meditation must have reached to those who have a thirst for truth and a longing to change their lives.

Osho has devised many meditation techniques which are very simple to understand and to put into practice. Special books using Osho’s own words, like  “Meditation: The first and the Last Freedom” provides complete information and guidance in this respect. Now it has become increasingly easy to understand and practice these meditation techniques oneself,  because of the development of information technology. There are many websites on the internet which provide demonstrations of various Osho’s meditations. The main website www.osho.com and its supporting websites are playing a very important role in this respect. Those who do not have access to the internet can buy CDs of Osho meditations which are cheap and provide complete guidance,  as well as visual demonstration (videos) showing how to experiment with these techniques. These CDs and DVDs are easily available worldwide from major dealers of this kind. However we will not betray our Master to advise you to purchase pirated material which is being circulated by some greedy sannyasins in India. In India  the genuine suppliers are: Osho Media International, 17-Koregaon Park, Pune 411 001(M.S.), SONY Music Entertainment (India) Pvt. Ltd. Mumbai and SHEMAROO Entertainment Pvt. Ltd. Mumbai.

In view of the above scenario, the time has come such that the role of Osho Meditation Camp conductors, facilitators and sanchalaks can be dispensed with. Moreover it is not difficult to find someone who has practiced Osho Meditations sincerely and without ego by participating in Osho International Meditation Resort in Pune.   One can also learn the techniques by participating in such meditation programs in Pune or Meditation Centres strictly functioning on the same lines.

The outside Conductors are no longer needed because they are proving harmful to the rebellious spirit of Osho’s vision. Many of these “leaders”  know little about the wishes of Osho  or how His work should be carried out. On several occasions Osho has said that most people become interested in religion out of greed and  an inferiority complex. Such sick persons with a lust for money, power and respectability when they happen to become interested in religion,  simply use religion to gain these things.

One can see this disease spreading in sannyasins who are Osho Meditation Camp conductors/facilitators/sanchalaks.  Seeing the present situation there is no hope that these greedy sannyasins will understand the right way. 

They are also creating groups of sannyasins and functioning inevitably as organizations. In this way these leaders are bringing in hierarchy and gurudom,  muddying the vision and destroying its true spirit. These peoples are exploiting the name of Osho and His wisdom just to earn respectability, money and power which nourish their egos.

The sooner they are eliminated the better,  otherwise history will repeat itself and Osho’s vision will fall in the main stream of what happened to other organized religions.

 Our perception is that only if Osho Camp Conductors or Facilitators or Sanchalaks free themselves from helping others and devote their whole time and energy for realizing their own enlightenment, Osho’s dream can be realized. That will be the greatest contribution to His work they can make to his work and immensely helpful to others. But in the present developments it appears impossible. Ego has blocked the way.

 
“A master can create a situation around you – just a situation, remember. … And only one who has got it within him, one who has passed through all the stages, one who has become a big tree, flowering – only he can create the situation around you. So a person who has not become enlightened himself cannot help you: on the contrary, he may hinder.

 (VEDANTA: Seven Steps To Samadhi # 4)

authored by “Osho Friends Trust”

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68 Responses to Are Osho Meditation Camps still functional?

  1. shantam prem says:

    “Osho Friends Trust”
    Who are the people behind this Trust?

    Seems like some kind of sannyas version of Isis!
    Faceless creatures trying to dictate toi the others.
    Axxholes!

  2. shantam prem says:

    Idiots have even quoted a very irrelevant quotation.

  3. navina says:

    Different strokes for different folks. What works for one doesn’t necessarily work for others. Lots of ‘shoulds’ and judgment in this. Notice it is always someone else who has the big ego. Shantam is right too – you can almost always find a quote to support whatever it is you think is correct.

    I remember one discourse where Osho said a rock or a dog could be one’s teacher. It depends on the teachee, not necessarily the teacher.

  4. prem martyn says:

    Yeah, cool, no probs.
    I’m not fussed really…I mean, if you wanna Camp to do that stuff it’s fine and you know, if you don’t then, well, whatever, mmmmm?
    This smoothie is really gooood, I’m just off to the beach for a bit of sunbathing and then we can meet up at the Sundown Meditators Cafe later?
    Hey, babe…aummm, mmmm, nnnnice…

    (Waves lapping sound album, and some baroque harpsichord and guitar music drifts in, over closing credits and sound of adults giggling off-camera)….

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-11309645

    Men with low levels of stress are more attractive to women, according to research at the University of Abertay.

    The team analysed hormone levels in young men and showed pictures to a group of women.

    It found a strong link between low levels of the stress hormone cortisol in men and how attractive they were to the opposite sex.

    The research also discovered no link between high levels of the sex hormone testosterone and sex appeal.

    Dr Fhionna Moore, a psychology lecturer at Abertay University who lead the research team, said that previous studies had suggested a link between high levels of testosterone and greater health benefits as it was thought that only males with a strong immune system could cope with higher levels of the sex hormone.

    She said the university’s study debunked that suggestion saying: “We analysed different levels and combinations of cortisol and testosterone and found a strong link between low cortisol levels, which is present when someone has low stress levels, and being highly attractive to women.”

    The study also showed that female attraction to men with low stress levels was at its highest during the fertile phase of their cycle.

    Hormone levels

    Dr Moore added that the findings suggested that: “An ability to handle stressful situations suggests a strong genetic make-up and the ability to pass ‘good genes’ to their children.”

  5. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Friends,

    I feel we would need the more sophisticated way of an enigma machine to really get the hardcore facts of that software mix under the heading ‘deciphered’. This compilation of string text AND picture with an additional statement from ‘Osho Friends Trust’ has a strong smell of cunning in it – for my nose at least

    For me, it is about the trademark legal issues which are going on, I guess. (And the legal fights with some people who are opening centres worldwide?). What is so sickening in all this is the mix (text-wise) with very understandable issues (looking at the embedded Osho-quotes about ´organized religions’ and the trap of losing the essential, vital or important point of egomania in leadership etc.), mixed – quite undercover – with hardcore business interests (money issues, trademark issues).

    In the pic I see a Swami in the midst of a kind of party dance event on Pune´s marble dancefloor and many joyous dancers around this man who is contributing soap bubbles to the ´event´.

    However, I would say that it is not irrelevant who is introducing Osho´s meditations to people who are new to them and want to participate.

    And I would also say, from my own experience throughout the decades, that everyone has to use his or her own instincts if he or she encounters in the meditation ‘leader’ one who is in lust for power or a good role model in terms of having worked a lot on own ego-issues.
    Both types of people you can meet everywhere (also in Pune).

    The whole legal trademark issue though as SUCH is but a symptom altogether and quite complex. And sad too. Very much so. As it shows definitely how you can lose track of the way, individually and collectively.

    Prem Martyn was posting a few days ago: “One must not be mad to post here. but it helps”…
    Lokesh responded to him in the sense that it is not quite certain how and for what it helps. I don´t know either – but wish us all here very well in this virtual caravanserai under the logo of UK.

    Madhu

  6. Parmartha says:

    Sad to say, whether inside the ashram-approved framework or outside it, ‘ego’ appears in these types of activities from so-called leaders.

    I remember back in 1974/5 doing a camp and Teertha would lead them. He had plenty of ego, including, as I remember, reading during dynamic!

    The first camps were led by Osho himself, pre 1970, and were his choosen form for introducing people to meditation, etc. It seems time-honoured. Nothing much wrong with it in my book. Isn’t it the case that Camps are still held in the Resort?

    I accept that people like Arun simulate what Osho did and therefore could be called imitative. It certainly needs to be borne in mind. To me, what both he and others do in present time does seem old-fashioned and trying to sustain some kind of ‘religious’ base.

  7. shantam prem says:

    Parmartha, do you think Jayesh is raising the egoless poultry in his Osho´s Resort?

    Maybe it is Nature´s way of giving tit for tat, Sannyas movement has been drowned under tons of ego.

    Fact is, Sannyas movement is not even a movement anymore but a loose network of healers, therapists, meditation facilitators playing their own songs, building their own platforms.

    • satyadeva says:

      Well, Shantam, as I’ve just read in his famous ‘Grist for the Mill’ book (1976), Ram Dass points out that the death of one’s guru provides a great opportunity to see where one actually is in one’s spiritual life.

      Don’t want to be rude or anything, but for years here you appear to have preferred to see where the movement’ and its ‘leaders’ are at rather than where you are, as a being.

  8. shantam prem says:

    Where I am as a being is not that bad place to be:
    A soldier is pointing where generals are hiding or playing footsie. To diagnose the disease is much more important than prescribing medicine, any medicine.

    Tell me about yourself, my friend. Have you got this much integrity to show your face and take responsibility for your words? After all, you too are on this site for years.

    • satyadeva says:

      As I thought, Shantam, you focus entirely on externals and seem to have little or no ‘inner’ – one might say ‘meditative’ – perspective. As such, you’re more ‘politician’ than sannyasin.

      Tell me/us, how would your life be without this overriding concern, this apparent obsession with the Sannyas powers-that-be, the Sannyas ‘organisation’? Can you be absolutely honest – with yourself?

      As for my appearance, well, until I have a reasonable photo (not at all guaranteed) you’ll just have to rely on the “integrity” of my words!

      • shantam prem says:

        Not always, but more often, meditation or sannyas, prayers and churches kind of things are used by world´s most sophisticated cheats.

        And more often, you, Satyadeva, give this impression as one of those old timer priests who killed people because they were not fitting their perception of religious people.

        Your stupid books and dead gurus have corrupted the innocence of the heart. You are so full with the shit, what is external, what is internal, who is meditator, who is not…

        It happens quite often to those freighted souls who take all kind of medicines at once.

        Sorry for being harsh, but sometimes it is important.

        • satyadeva says:

          “Stupid books and dead gurus”? Examples, please, Shantam – or stand accused of making up nonsense to suit your self.

          What you haven’t grasped yet is that it’s all very well proclaiming “the innocence of the heart”, which you may well be an example of, for all I know (but with little evidence of it in your recent posts) but without concomitant adult intelligence this desirable, childlike quality can easily degenerate into the sort of childish stupidity that wants and expects, as a right, the present and future to be essentially the same as the best of the past.

          You avoid the question I put to you re what your life would be like without this obsession with the powers-that-be in Pune and in the Sannyas world, because…do you know why?

          Is this overriding concern with far away externals a way to avoid facing your reality and the perhaps somewhat harsh realities for you of living in virtual ‘exile’ from your homeland?

          Are you, at least to some extent, offloading your disillusion, discontent, anger at your own life on to those ‘authorities’ you choose to regard as ‘misguided’, ‘destructive’, or even ‘criminal’?

          I may be wrong about you, but from much of what you’ve written here over these years I’m inclined to think along such lines.

  9. Anand says:

    Shantam Prem, you said “Osho Friends Trust, who are the people behind this Trust?” Via google, I found them here: http://oshozenstick.com/about_us.php.

    More on the issue of the meditation camps and its leaders I found here: http://oshozenstick.com/osho_meditation_campus.php

  10. lokesh says:

    Are Osho meditation camps a thing of the past? In my case, most definitely. Personally, I loved them and participated in dozens of them. A highpoint in life, for sure.

    As it happens, I begin running a meditation workshop next week. Quite excited about it. Will include a revamped version of Osho’s Nadabrahma. I have reworked the soundtrack to make it more current.
    Apart from anything else, I look forward to putting into practice some of these techniques for myself. Nadabrahma was always a favourite of mine, because it brings about many benefits.

    Now then, anyone have any good tips for making my group more interesting? That question should hold the potential to create a few laughs.

    • prem martyn says:

      More interesting?

      Ask them to keep a diary of their most repetitive thoughts for publication on SN.
      Titles might include:

      The Ranches of the World
      The indigenous native Indian use of gas in Dentistry
      Cakes I have loved
      Dates I wish I’d had
      Finding and sharing your Blogger’s Chakra
      Things I did thirty years ago

      Finding that someone actually is a real non-entity, after meeting for a date and asking them their secrets to success

      Dating someone who doesn’t meditate, is stunning and great fun, has loads of good-looking friends, just so that you can feel the emptiness again and luckily watch your thoughts, in the corner with a glass of shandy

      Write a short Diary of a Meditator’s Camping experience, without using the words ‘I’ or ‘amazing’

      Deliberately going out of your way to feel consciously unmeditative every few hours in the day and see how liberating that is – to Share

  11. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    That´s good news from your side, Lokesh.

    From giving and taking…and beyond it all…

    Love …to read/hear that.

    Madhu

  12. shantam prem says:

    Few people are born with Charismatic leadership qualities. Through their words and presence they attract certain kind of followers who are ready to believe in each and every word of them.

    If they say, “we are going to change the destiny of the world”, followers believe. If such people say, “by dropping or indulging in sex you will achieve godly blessings”, followers will do as per their teachings.

    More or less cult around such people grow with the feelings, “Sun rises because my master wants to wake up. When my great one wants to sleep, stars will come.”

    As the life is on the Earth, everybody dies; if not by natural reasons then through artificial means.

    Charismatic leaders die too. Soap bubble gets burst.

    P.S: People who have collected books and words of such leaders go on believing their Charismatic one has not died, only left the body or has gone up in the sky through levitation.

    • Parmartha says:

      Wars cannot be pursued without those who want to be soldiers, or are too frightened to say no.
      It’s no good talking about leaders without considering the psychology of those who are led.
      A society of free men equally interacting is enormously difficult, but it is possible, and one has to live with that inspiration.

      You seem like someone who lives without inspiration, Mr Shantam, so make a switch now.

  13. shantam prem says:

    Many times I wonder, what is this thing called Neo-Sannyas or simply Sannyas.

    This looks like a chip card of a mobile company whose business went bust few years ago.

    ‘Sannyasnews’, therefore, is a platform for those who were once part of the Titanic!

    • Parmartha says:

      You seem to be on board, Shantam, so a watery grave may await!
      But of course your analogy is totally off-beam.
      Something is happening here, as Bob Dylan used to say, but you don’t know what is it, do you, Mr Jones (Shantam)?

      • lokesh says:

        PM, I have used the Mr Jones line a couple of times on SN in relation to El Chudo…Somehow that song was written just for his unwholeyness. I suspect he will never get it.

  14. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    B e s i d e s your other very many unsympathetic traits you show up here with, Shantam Prem –
    you are a very jealous man!

    Madhu

    • Kavita says:

      If jealousy is supposedly mostly a womanly trait, Shantam is basically a very feminine man, in fact I always thought of him more as a mother – within – without…breasts!

  15. shantam prem says:

    One jealous heart among the crowd of loving souls.

    Why God is not saving the drowning Sannyas?
    But who says Sannyas is drowning? As long as books exist, Sannyas will survive.
    The books-they have really become more important than the people who invested their life in the essence of the books.

    I think in every religious fanatic there is some Taliban. They don´t see any wrong in their own priests, in their own structural limitations.

    • lokesh says:

      El Chudo declares, “I think in every religious fanatic there is some Taliban. They don´t see any wrong in their own structural limitations.”

      Golly, El C has been doing a spot of reflection. Surely this must have come about due to some unexplainable astrological phenomna. Powerful revelation, no less.

  16. shantam prem says:

    In a way, my Osho given work is not easy. It is like cleaning the unflushed toilets. Other than me, all Sannyas writers are pretending, “All is fine, all is ok. Stink comes from the followers of old religions.”

    Matter of the fact is, Osho developed his Sannyas empire by mercilessly pinpointing the drawbacks of other religions and their followers. Just in a short span of time, Nature has shown same ruthlessness and undercut competition among the disciples is in the Sannyas too. The right to run the main church is fought with the Crusade-like struggle. And still pretending better than the politicians.

    To whom we want to befool? To the God (God is dead, some idiot will repeat the book title) or to the Existence!

    • Arpana says:

      Now don’t be silly, Shantam.
      Everyone knows you’re barely potty trained.

    • anand yogi says:

      Absolutly correct, Shantambhai!
      The baboons and cynical dogs at Sannyanews cannot see the vital and heroic work of the footsoldier-cum- toilet cleaner of Sannyas who is selflessly plunging his bare hands down the filthy toilets of the gora and pulling out the oversized turds of Jayesh with crusader-like heroism.

      The smell is disgusting, but Shantam has prepared himself for the heroic and necessary task of exposing the truth for the benefit of all of those who understand how religions evolve! He has spent years stuffing himself with Lidl two-for-one meat pies and cut-price German sausages! Such a devotion to his assana shows his unswerving nature!

      He will never bee distracted from his crusade-like struggle!
      This hero of the unflushed toilets of the Osho movement will not cease from mental strife nor shall his bogbrush sleep in his hand until he has rebuilt the work of India’s greatest spiritual son in Sannyas` unclean and unpleasant toilet pan!

      Yahoo!

  17. karima says:

    I find it much more fun and easier reading if I replace all the projections in everybody’s comments here with I or mine; after all, the only thing excisting is my/your world, is’nt it, Arpana/Karima? So who is barely potty-trained?

    • Arpana says:

      You’ve taken projection to a new level.
      Congratulations.

    • satyadeva says:

      Ah, but there can still be much truth in ‘projections’, Karima…

      And who said ‘excitement’ is the key criterion anyway? End these juvenile mind games at once!

      My advice to you, madame: For at least 3 months, accept so-called ‘boredom’ and the terminally ‘dull’ until you’re virtually drowning in what your mind would call ‘utter tedium’. No escape!

      Thank me in February….

      • karima says:

        Can’t call you barely potty-trained, Satyadeva/Karima….

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Karima! These foolish baboons are utterly caught in their own projections!

          You are absolutely correct! It is impossible to say anything without speaking of what is true, in fact, for yourself! For example, these fools who have spoken against the truly-crowned yogi of mighty Bharat, Narendra Modi, and accused him of massacring innocent women and children are merely stuck in their own projections! It is they who are the criminals and their projections show it clearly!

          But these projectile baboons see nothing of these deep spiritual truths that you, Karima, have a deep understanding of!

          Karima, it is also my projection, I understand, that you are clearly a very advanced soul!
          I may even humbly venture to say that your shared wisdom shows clearly that you are progressing towards the levels that only that heroic footsoldier and Sannyas sepoy, Shantam, has achieved here on Sannyasnews!

          You and he are indeed worthy and blessed to be charged with the holy duty of rolling up your sleeves and cleaning the Sannyas toilet with vim and vigour, which as Shantam has rightly pointed out, have been drowned under a mountain of ego!

          Yahoo!
          Roll out the barrel!

  18. shantam prem says:

    I really hope, one day, westerners won´t need to go to India and change their names with some from a foreign culture or travel from here and there like an orphan searching for spiritual daddy.

    One day it is going to land, orthopaedists are not good for urological complications.

    It is not sarcasm but real good intention. It makes my heart really happy to see decline in spiritual tourism to India.

    • satyadeva says:

      “Good intention”, you claim, Shantam. With which, as the saying goes, the road to Hell is paved…

      Are you absolutely sure you’re not coming from bitterness, disillusionment, resentment, anger at those you regard as ‘enemies’, ‘criminals’, the ones you imagine have ‘robbed’ you of what you think is your spiritual ‘home’ (or however you regard your former, long gone, past ‘glory days’ in Pune)?

      Your posts sound more and more as if they’re coming from Hell…But who’s responsible for that place? What do you think the ‘spiritual life’ (if that’s what you think you’re into) is about? Nourishing hellish thoughts and dreams – or keeping them out?

      • shantam prem says:

        Indian and European have two different operating systems. Almost like android and apple. Osho is the only one who tried to create some kind of mishmash. During his lifetime, it was working quite well. A ringleader can make tiger and the sheep dance with the same sound of the hunter. So it was quite promising.

        On this portal, I am the only one who has seen the decline and cultural conflicts till its bitter end, and does not cover the dirt under the carpets, which I think is against the process of evolution. Scientific evolution requires that we discuss failure more often than the success otherwise it becomes religion, where one success story out of hundreds is circulated to attract thousands.

        Other than Osho, all Indian gurus in the market are simply Hindu missionaries…OM, Om, Om!
        They are good as bandage but have no knowledge about the European way of life or mindset.
        Can someone tell me a single holy Indian name who has gone for sunbathing in Ibiza or a lady Ma who has taken her slender brown body wrapped in white towel in unisex Sauna?

        How such people can even think to bring some kind of subtle wisdom and how low-esteemed people must be who think such people can deliver.

        So my sincere wish is that West becomes self-reliant in the Spiritual industry. Right now, West is producing only some kind of therapists who steal and polish Tantra: the art of screwing without guilt, thinking it is a way to Samadhi.

        • satyadeva says:

          “Other than Osho, all Indian gurus in the market are simply Hindu missionaries…OM, Om, Om!
          They are good as bandage but have no knowledge about the European way of life or mindset.”

          Now that’s something I’d tend to largely agree with, but not completely, re either now or the past.

          “So my sincere wish is that West becomes self-reliant in the Spiritual industry. Right now, West is producing only some kind of therapists who steal and polish Tantra: the art of screwing without guilt, thinking it is a way to Samadhi.”

          Again, there’s something in what you say here – but it’s not true there are no genuine western teachers. As for masters, well…that’s another matter…How many true masters are alive at any one time? Very, very few.

      • lokesh says:

        Actually, Shantam’s comments are coming direct from ground zero, Chudsville, the epicentre of Sewageland, on Why Planet.

  19. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    “It’s no good talking about leaders without considering the psychology of those who are led”

    SO TRUE, Parmartha, so true, and ever so often neglected, even after decades.

    And also – it may take much time if we ever should speak about that in ´time-terms´
    (which I doubt) – but which is to say that history is not as such existing but a very living thing, ever changing the views, people´s insights or the chats about it.

    However, the river of understanding is rivering, isn´t it?

    Looked at the pics you posted this morning, for example:
    Somebody ´seeing´ through the lens of a camera, very much interested to count and ´photo-shoot´ the Rolls Royces , the Ranch buildings in construction, the farm area, looking at some VIPS like Krishadeva, Sheela (playing schach) and so on.

    And so serving most of the habitual ‘autobahn´s-view’ of ´understanding history´ – ‘our´ history. If that will be inside the ´book´ you are working on, it´s gonna hopefully be just a tiny part of an ongoing ´look´ from the outside.

    I am bit serious today – this Sunday we are celebrating (the best we Germans are able to, in the Here-Now) sort of turning points in ´history´: two fascist regimes in the 20th century leaving lots of scars as deep wounds (worldwide, one can say) – not only in one generation.

    The vision gets broader though (again in terms of ´time´) as to more and more growing into understanding how we all on the planet are connected on a very deep level.

    Yes, ´history´ is a very living thing. And it´s beautiful to keep that in Heart and in mind too and maybe develop a Heart´s Intelligence altogether.

    The sun is very bright today here, where I am, and the sky is crystal clear. The last two days, concerning SN (UK), I have been beautifully ´haunted´ by a parable Osho shared with us in His lecture series ‘The Beloved’. It´s the last lecture, if I remember rightly, and the parable is about the BAUL MYSTICS.

    The credit for this, my memory ride on waves of life experiences, mostly goes to Lokesh this time.
    In this parable, ´God´ sends angels onto Earth to check out how all is going since ´creating´ man(kind).
    Well, it´s a kind of King Midas story, what happened after bringing reports to the ´Creator´…and wishfulfilling the gathered wishes of people.

    There was one exception, the Baul Mystics reporting to the ´messenger´, having no other wish of God than to dance and to sing about the Glory to be Alive on this beautiful planet and spot.
    The angel as messenger – so was wisdom whispered in the Meditation Hall – came back to ´God´ to report about these people saying he himself would wish to be that kind of ‘fourth’ man.

    On Earth.

    On the journey so far I’ve met – including myself – dreamers dreaming this kind of dream, the Dream of the Bauls. Or remembering this kind of dream. And instead of putting that down harshly or making it into a ridiculous affair – I like to honour that.

    Just NOW-HERE – and today.

    Love,

    Madhu

    P.S:
    Such stuff (the latter will never appear in history books – not only ´ours´), but is yet existing and sometimes you get a flavour of that, like a breeze.

    • lokesh says:

      Ah, The Bauls – attended all ‘The Beloved’ discourses, and for a wee while we played at being Bauls…great stuff! During those times I was running a disco in Koregaon Park with my two partners. It was called ‘Caravanserai’. A bunch of hard-core sannyasin rockers formed a band and they played our club a few times. Only thing was they could not agree on a name, until I came up with ‘Bhagwan’s Bauls’. The old man heard about it and, according to rumour, smiled. I can remember being quite chuffed upon hearing that. It all seems like a past life now.

      Thanks, Madhu, for your post. It was good to be put back in touch with the Baul vibe. Helps me keep my eye on the ball here and now, knowing I have a good chance of scoring a goal with such a fantastic foundation to shoot from. Rock n’ roll!

  20. shantam prem says:

    Let us say, in this portal, where 10, 12 people write regularly, Lokesh is the only one with a stable family life.

    It means hardly 10-15% Osho disciples have a regular wife and bench mark family life.

    And here lies Lokesh´s strength. He sounds like regular Christian, Hindu or whatsoever the shoe box, where most of the humanity lives. When I read him it reminds me of millions and millions of upper middle-class Indians with stable family around and they speak about their guru, their cult, their practice
    e in a similar fashion.

    This is another fact: sometimes blessings become hindrances, sometime blessings come in disguise.

    People who are not wounded can heal anything with their piss. Problem comes when they look with their mediocre eyes at the pharmaceutical research.

    • satyadeva says:

      “Let us say, in this portal, where 10, 12 people write regularly, Lokesh is the only one with a stable family life.

      It means hardly 10-15% Osho disciples have a regular wife and benchmark family life.”

      It means nothing of the sort, Shantam. Taking a tiny sample to reach a definitive conclusion about many hundreds of thousands? Sheer statistical sophistry, sir!

      And even if it were the case, so what? It’s impossible to understand what exactly you’re getting at, apart from you’re obviously coming from a brooding discontent at your own personal situation as a single man in an ‘alien’ culture.

      Homework:
      Rewrite the last two paragraphs, clarifying the connection with the preceding one.

  21. lokesh says:

    El Chudo declares, “When I read him it reminds me of millions and millions of upper middle-class Indians with stable family around and they speak about their guru, their cult, their practice.”

    Poor guy, I have about as much in common with “millions of upper middle-class Indians with stable family around” as say, rump steak does to a vegan. Really, chuddy-buster comment from the master of the absurd. Really outtasight, man!

    Ah well, I am off into the forest with my chainsaw to cut some firewood…Fetching water there is no need, thanks to my two horsepower submersible pump, supplying water that apparently seeps through porous limestone from the Pyrenees and takes 10,000 years to get here. Quite remarkable, if you think about it.

    • satyadeva says:

      I reckon it’s basically down to a simple matter of Shantam envying your situation, Lokesh.

      Which he attempts to modify by likening you to those “millions” of well-off Indians (whose situation he also envies, of course) whom he looks down upon as ‘spiritually complacent’ (or whatever).

      • lokesh says:

        SD, I have no idea and I don’t really spend much time looking into where Shantam is coming from. That said, I can’t help but noticing that poor Shantam is obviously dwelling in some kind of bitter space and his comments are getting more nego and warped by the day. What all that has to do with his relationship to maintaing Osho’s legacy and all that shite is anyone’s guess. It is a mystery to me how someone can be so delusional and if I look for answers it must have something to do with living an unconscious life.

        It is up to the individual. You can veg out like so many people do and let your inner state deterioate or you can say fuck this, I’m going to try and let more light into myself. It certainly isn’t always easy, at times seemingly impossible, but I think it is the way to go. Go for the light as much as you can. Really that simple. My wheelbarrow awaits….

  22. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    YES

    Thank you, Parmartha, for another ride – not only visual.

    Madhu

  23. shantam prem says:

    Nobody likes to dig into the matters of research. It will be an interesting theme how many sannyasins, in spite of their path of love, art of love, art of family healing, psychology beyond family healing kind of intense groups and seminars, have been able to create somehow a basic family structure.

    Osho was heard saying something like, “Family is dead, communes are the future.”

    Reality check is something different.

    • satyadeva says:

      How does this relate to you personally though, Shantam? Are you unhappy due to lacking a ‘normal’ family life? If so, why drag “sannyasins” or Osho into it?

      Again, it strikes me that behind all this talk and speculation about others, you’re looking for someone or something to blame for your predicament, ie anyone but your own self.

      If you really want a ‘family life’ then look and see what you can possibly do to create one. A good start would be to eliminate the sort of whining and blaming that’s becoming one of your main characteristics here, as no one would ever want to live or be around that for very long, I assure you.

      • shantam prem says:

        If we are honest with our thoughts sharing, it is true they will reflect our inner self. On the other side, it is also a statistical fact, just one of thousand domestic violence cases come on the surface. Very few people get the courage to speak against their own establishment, especially when spiritual interests get involved.

        Without the fear of Fatwa too, most of the people remain aloof and silent against the hegemony of their priestly class.

        In my personal case, I am experiencing everything which I felt is my calling. Decline of Osho´s ashram into Resort was not thought for a day. Surely it hurts to see the lifelong emotional investment of many and master´s unique effort going down the drain.

        For me, success of the master´s work means there are open doors for His people, that, instead of living in a capsule they share their life with fellow-travellers.

        Some idiots turn poetry into prose and nobody speaks. It shows a simple thing: after his demise Lion´s costume has been taken away by the circus owners.

        • satyadeva says:

          You talk as if the place had closed down, but last I heard, the ashram was open to you and all the fellow-travellers you could wish for, Shantam.

          How can it possibly be the same as it was while Osho was alive? Can’t you see that’s an impossible wish, however much one might yearn for ‘the good old days’?

          So what’s the problem – lack of photos? Lack of Celebration Days? Well, there was one not so long ago which looked alive enough to me.

          My guess is your problem is actually rooted in your unsatisfactory personal life situation: unemployed, living alone in a foreign land, outside your home continent, let alone home country, probably few (if any?) genuine friends, no sexual/marriage relationship, no family nearby, no connection with any Osho Centre, no initiative or even requisite energy to start something of the kind yourself – all that might add up to a pretty high negative score on the ‘Meaning in one’s Life’ scale, wouldn’t it – doesn’t it?

          Is it not true that fundamentally, you’re simply lonely? And “all the rest” (to borrow a famous phrase from British actor Albert Finney) is just “propaganda”?

  24. prem martyn says:

    These Bowel mistakes are the cause of much running amok here on SN. I had one in the back o’ me cab last week. I blame the family, alcohol and them blogging religionists…took a whole bottle of BauloMisticleen to get rid of the implications.
    What’s this country coming to?
    Cheers, allo darlin’, blimey…
    OI – no tip!!!?

  25. lokesh says:

    El Chudo comes away with the following, “Osho was heard saying something like, “Family is dead, communes are the future.”

    Osho also said that AIDs would kill two-thirds of the world’s population.
    I mean to say, Chudo, what do you say?

  26. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, simple thing is to encounter the whole picture. It is no harm to accept on many occasions Osho too was biting more than he could chew. Many of his words and sayings have proved bluffs and heresay.

    But why to surgically remove those parts which are healthy, which were his unique creations?
    Leadership’s cleverness shows disciples too are clever and greedy!

    I have heard from many sannyasins they can trust the whole world but not sannyasins. And I always say, “Same is about you too.”

    End shows, all was not well. In the name of meditation…somewhere, something has gone fishy.
    This is one of the reasons I play always the villain. Story has so many heroes and heroines.

    • lokesh says:

      His Holiness, El Chudo, raises the question, “But why to surgically remove those parts which are healthy?”

      Why indeed? The crux of the matter is how one views and determines what signifies ‘health’. For example, Chudmeister posts the following: “Osho was heard saying something like, ‘Family is dead, communes are the future.’” Somehow it would appear that he believes this to be a healthy stance. Yet if one examines what happened to Osho’s Rancho Rajneesh commune can he honestly say it was healthy?

      If people wish to live in a nuclear family that is their business. I am not so big on the family thing, but it does have its moments. I know some beautiful families and they don’t experience the need to poison the locals etc. Using Osho quotes to back up one’s take on life is for dummies. Osho has become a permanent crutch for such people.

      In response to an earlier question posted by Chud Meister: “Can someone tell me a single holy Indian name who has gone for sunbathing in Ibiza?” Well, I don’t know how holy he was but some folks certainly took HWL Poonja to be the real deal and he visited Ibiza.

  27. Gyanodaya sw, says:

    Although the topic is not altogether unjustified on the merits of the case, does one participate in a meditation camp, for a week, or a day, or just one hour, to transform ones self, or to transform the meditation facilitator? HELLO.

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