What Enlightenment is NOT

There have been in the past definitional disputes about enlightenment on the SN blog.  Maybe quarreling about definitions is a mug’s game. Karl Popper used to say so, and argued that there are no essential meanings to words, they are conveniences between people, and they have simply to be agreed before, and not within any debate.

However many seekers are concerned, and even obsessed by such a definition.  We noticed that Jeddah Mali, a  modern female spiritual teacher has adopted a Popperian favourite technique by using, knowingly or not,  the via negativa.  That is by saying what enlightenment is NOT.

“Enlightenment is not about feeling happy all the time.
Enlightenment is not about solving all your problems at once.
Nor is enlightenment about living up to some spiritual ideal.
Enlightenment is simply a state of being.
It is the continuous state of knowing—beyond all niggling doubt—that you are the source energy of life itself.”

Perhaps Jeddah spoils it by finishing by saying what she does consider it to be. It might have been better to itemise an even longer list of what it is not!  Over to you, SN punters.

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159 Responses to What Enlightenment is NOT

    • prem martyn says:

      <3 <3

      every time…

      Thanks for that, Arpana.

    • satyadeva says:

      So, is Van the man anywhere closer to enlightenment than you or me? Maybe, maybe not – he often enough seems a grouchy old so’n'so, but maybe that’s just media exposure highlighting the negative…

      Great musicians, songwriters, singers, poets etc, can produce fantastic work, spellbinding, deeply moving, not just ‘entertaining’, but although we like/love to celebrate them and their art it doesn’t follow they’re any closer to ‘Reality’ in the rest of their life.

      Perhaps that’s why so many are self-saboteurs, via drugs or other excesses, as they can’t replicate the ‘high’ and/or the temporary fulfilment of performing, outside the arena of their work.

      For instance, Jack Bruce (of Cream fame), who died this week (of liver disease, thanks to many years of drugs, including heroin), said many musicians are particularly vulnerable types, totally immersed in their work – but also particularly prone to going off the rails.

      Then there was Osho’s uncompromising verdict on John Lennon after he was killed, something like, ‘A gifted artist, great imagination, a very nice guy (etc. etc.) – but that doesn’t imply anything ‘spiritual’ and he died completely unconscious.”

      And in another area, George Best (a football genius who died prematurely of alcoholism) was a truly phenomenal ‘force of Nature’ on the field, so much so that while playing he surely must have felt, if not ‘enlightened’ then supremely ‘high’ on the sublime skills he was able to command (or allow to freely flow, without inhibition) – whereas it seems he had to resort to excesses of drink and sex to maintain a level of being somehow commensurate with how he felt himself to be at ‘work’.

      (Ok, Frank, no need for that famous tale of when a room-service waiter, on bringing more champagne to George’s room and finding him in bed with Miss World, plaintively enquired: “Oh, George, where did it all go wrong?”!!).

      • Arpana says:

        I’m pretty certain Van the man has never claimed to be enlightened, or anything like that.

        Proud to be a great musician and grumpy old git though. lol.

        (✌゚∀゚)☞

        • satyadeva says:

          I’m sure he hasn’t, Arpy – and if he has then the first thing to ask would be why he insists on being so bloody miserable!

          But just look at the comments at youtube below the song you put up. Quite a few put him on a pedestal as some sort of ‘seer’, one or two even suggest he ‘certainly knows what enlightenment is’. Maybe he’s had ‘glimpses’ and is gifted enough to somehow communicate that, if only through the quality of what comes through his voice (you know, the ‘energy’, the vibe, man) – but who hasn’t had a ‘realisation’ or two, at some level or other?

          Another guy even said ‘enlightenment’s all about thinking the right thoughts’ (or something on those lines)! Oh dear, we seem to be surrounded by utter ignorance – pass the smelling salts, someone, please….

          • Arpana says:

            Moral of story:
            Don’t read Shantam’s remarks.

          • Parmartha says:

            He suffers from epilespy.
            Such an illness could make one grumpy… all those tablets – or not knowing when one might have a fit.

            Also, not tolerating fools gladly can leave one with the impression of being constantly pissed off – as there are so many fools in the world!

            • satyadeva says:

              Like many other teachers, Osho ‘demystified’ enlightenment, yes, thus making sure it was taken out of the realms of ‘pie-in-the-sky’, only attainable by a Chosen Few and ‘not for people like me and us’ and so on – although that was more than somewhat belied by how he presented himself, the ‘regal’ manner, up on a platform, surrounded by acolytes, his every whim taken care of, and especially in later years, his rather outrageous clothes (not to mention all those Rollers, of course), all of which pronounced him not just ‘special’, but ‘extra-special’ (which, of course, he was), rather like some eastern potentate! Mind you, making public the nitrous episodes to a certain extent tended to counteract all that.

              Enlightenment may be “a joke”, nevertheless it seems some pretty serious, committed work, usually over most of a lifetime, needs to be put in before one ‘gets’ it….Which, I suppose, must be why it is apparently such a hoot – to those who ‘get there’…

              Perhaps this ‘penny has already dropped’ for you and other fellow-travellers, Parmartha, but not yet for me, I read and hear such statements, but they’re very much from the ‘outside’, from a place that I’ve yet to enter, let alone own.

              Meanwhile, calling it “a joke” could well encourage downright laziness in the regiment, don’t you think, sir? Leading to LMF and its insidious offshoots…

              Still, mustn’t get too serious –

              A funny thing happened as I was coming to my computer this morning….

              • satyadeva says:

                If “enlightenment is a joke”, how come it invariably appears to, er, ‘descend’ or arise, or whatever, only after a lengthy climactic period of the most intense psychic suffering, wherein the person concerned undergoes a sort of conscious emotional and psychological death? By all accounts, this is utterly horrendous – even worse than reading Shantam’s post earlier today.

                • frank says:

                  A great Zen Master tested his disciple with the koan:
                  “If enlightenment is a joke, what is the punchline?”

                  The disciple answered
                  “You don`t get many of them for a pound!”

                  The master immediately struck the disciple with his slapstick and stuck a chip up each of his nostrils.

                  And it is said that the disciple reached mocksha at that very moment.

                • Arpana says:

                  Breathe in. Breathe out.
                  Breathe in. Breathe out.
                  Forget this and attaining Enlightenment will be the least of your problems.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Fortunately though, the trusty body takes care of it all….

                • frank says:

                  But seriously, SD,
                  Re intense psychic suffering before Enlightenment

                  I was thinking of the story of Eckhart Tolle who, by his own account, was massively and suicidally depressed for his whole life before the big E.

                  Consider this:
                  Supposing someone kicks you in the balls really hard. It’s agony, isn`t it?
                  But when it wears off you feel absolutely great altho` in fact you are just enjoying the state of `no-pain-in-the-balls`.

                  That could be what happened to Eggy. His depression wore off and just being normal-ish seemed like the ultimate high to him and the rest is history…?

                • satyadeva says:

                  There’s possibly something in that somewhat preposterous-sounding angle, Frank. Somehow, it brings to mind how the generation that experienced the ’39-45 war found the bland London suburbs a kind of heavenly haven, appreciating their little houses and gardens as if they were a gift from God. Perhaps they were…After all they’d been through, they surely deserved some peace and quiet…

                  But really, I like Eckhart Tolle, he’s genuine enough for me – except the prices he and/or his ‘promoters’ charge for public meetings are ridiculously exorbitant, eg a few years ago, around £75 for a 3 hours meeting among hundreds of others in a very large venue. Scandalous.

                • Arpana says:

                  Your nadgers have really been though the mill, ‘aven’t they, Frank?

  1. shantam prem says:

    Enlightenment…

    It is a three years diploma course with Sir Sri Sir Mind Free!

  2. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Thank you too, Arpana , for posting one of the songs I love and your compilation of pics

    Madhu

  3. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    And to start the list -

    First thing that came into my mind was (quote of Osho):

    “Enlightement does NOT mean to know that one is bugged…”

    Others may follow – the list is long.

    Madhu

    • Arpana says:

      Excellent.

      He also said he was neither omnipotent or omnipresent.

    • Arpana says:

      Osho says:

      “And I am not omnipotent. I am just sitting in my chair, that’s all. Omnipotent means I will need a chair in which the whole universe fits. And I am not omnipresent. I am not a peeping Tom to look into your bedroom. That’s what God used to do, watching you even in your bathroom through the keyhole. I am not omniscient either. I don’t know what is going to happen next moment. I am simply human, just awake, just fully alert, conscious and responding to life moment to moment according to my awareness, my consciousness; just a pure mirror reflecting whatever comes in front of me. Don’t project anything on me.”

      Osho.
      God is Dead, Now Zen is the Only Living Truth
      Chapter #4
      Chapter title: God is a Lie

  4. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    P.S:
    And does NOT mean to know by whom one is bugged, I want to add.

    Madhu

  5. Parmartha says:

    Thanks for the song, Arps. Are the pics that accompany it yours?

    Semmelweis was a 19th century Viennese doctor who saved an innumerable number of women’s lives by a simple observation for which he was, shame to say of the medical profession, victimised and hounded.
    He pointed out that Viennese women never wanted to go to the student hospital at the time, but wanted to go anywhere else but! The reason was that they were very likely to die of puerpual fever.

    He said that the medical profession, especially doctors, had to learn to wash their hands. Eventually (after his death I believe), this was adopted and cut the mortality rate for puerepual fever to 1 per cent in Vienna.

    But the poor man died in a lunatic asylum at the age of 47. He felt so beaten about by his own profession for his observation, which he valiantly stuck to, that he became overwhelmingly depressed.

    Many, many have and continue to claim enlightenment, but I figure the countless unheralded contributions of such people as Semmelweis to human welfare may be the greater achievement, and he particularly should get the thanks of posterity a thousand times.

    • Arpana says:

      Pictures not mine.
      Best quality version of the song I could find.

      P.S:
      Van did a few nice albums around then (late eighties):
      ‘No Guru. No Method. No Teacher’
      ‘Enlightenment’
      ‘Avalon.’

  6. shantam prem says:

    Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers, Industrialists, Politicians – how many parents ever think their child to be an Enlightened being?

    Yes, if it becomes clear, this enlightenment thing can be turned into a lucrative profession, few may start praying for such a child.

  7. prem martyn says:

    I just know that it makes me really angrified without any watchfulshipness.

    I’m just going to avoid what it isn’t. Even in blogs.

    Breathe…1 2 3 4…

    Brown-eyed girl…la lala…oh, bother bother bother bother. La la la….

  8. Kavita says:

    First time I heard the word ‘enlightenment’ was from Osho in his recorded discourse, it was very fascinating to hear that something like that could ever exist, even though I have met a few of these so-called ‘Enlightened Beings’, heard about it, read about it from different sources over the years.

    Maybe Osho’s word is perhaps the last on this choicelessly favourite topic of his. Just last week I was listening to Osho’s Dhammapada vol. 7, chapter # 6: http://www.oshobooks.net/dhammapada07/chapter/dont-take-enlightenment-seriously/, where towards the end he said “And in fact, this whole thing is a joke: your misery, my enlightenment.

    Enough for today.”

  9. karima says:

    Hmmm, here comes the expert on enlightenment and the answer iezzzz…………..oh dear, I don’t think I know………………………but I vant to underssstand, I vant, I vant, I vant…………… iez iet thies, or iez iet that? Iez it me or iez iet you, iez iet life or iez iet God, iez iet good or iez it bad, iez iet is or iez it piss? Iet iez sooo complicated!! Vat died you say??? Iet iez both??? No, no, no, impossieble, I vant you to keep choosing and moving, I hate being still, do you hear? I hate stillness, listen to me, to me, I am you! Ooooh dear, she’s not listening anymore, I’m losing my grip, hellup, I thienk i’m dying!!

    • prem martyn says:

      Karima,

      Not to worry, Shantam is following you, with his usual wonderful understanding…

      Oh look…erm, actually…on second thoughts….

      • satyadeva says:

        Off-topic (?) but just heard about a Radio 4 programme re link between comedy and mental illness, this Saturday, 8pm. Awkward time perhaps but it’ll be online for 30 days as well.

        • frank says:

          SD, the link between mental illness and comedy is never off-topic at SN for long!

          According to medical literature, one of the defining features of Dementia, Schizophrenia, Logorrea,
          Schizophasia, Anoxic brain injury etc. is speaking what is known as ‘word salad’, which consists of random words and phrases linked together in an often unintelligible manner but sometimes creating unintended or bizarre meanings.

          (This is of course, a stock feature in many varieties of comedy).

          Engine-room retail outlet pumping religious porn legacy underwear rings a bell?

          • Ashok says:

            “What is known as ‘word salad’, which consists of random words and phrases linked together in an often unintelligble manner but sometimes creating unintended or bizarre meanings.”

            Thank you for mentioning this, Frank, as it is a condition of which I have long been aware, but was too much of a diplomat to bring to the attention of the viewing public here. I have also been acutely aware of the close relationship of ‘word salad’ to mental disease, and have been regularly horrified to witness frequent showings of this dreaded condition right here on SN!

  10. shantam prem says:

    Enlightenment -
    For many people´s imagination, it is that Orgasm which never makes one tired, weird out.

    Therefore this much craze to find that E-Spot, which exists or not, is not sure yet.

  11. Parmartha says:

    SD:
    Charlie Chaplin, whom we all must admire, methinks, said, “In the end, everything is a gag.”

    • satyadeva says:

      Maybe…maybe not, maybe it depends on the individual…I can’t really relate to that, not yet anyway…But “the end” still seems pretty distant to me – I’ve more or less always been sort of ‘semi-consciously retarded’, I suppose…

      But the bottom line is surely, why should someone else’s relative truth, realisation or insight, be it Charlie Chaplin’s, Van Morrison’s, Nigel Farage’s, or even Barry Long’s, Osho’s, Jesus’s, or anyone else’s, be mine or anyone else’s? It might be, it might not be…

      At the end of one’s days – preferably, well before – it would be much more than ‘nice’ to genuinely ‘know’, with all one’s being, that it’s all been one big cosmic joke…But no point pretending it is when it isn’t (yet)!

      • karima says:

        At the end of one’s day(s), after a hard day’s work, one notices the work is done and one goes Home.

        • satyadeva says:

          And then is it all perceived as one huge Joke?!

          Dylan wrote:
          “There are many here among us
          Who feel that life is but a joke,
          But you and I have been through that
          And this is not our fate
          So let us not talk falsely now
          The hour is getting late….”

          I guess he means the nihilistic take on ‘life is meaningless’ rather than the positive ‘Cosmic Joke’ thing, yet the trouble with the ‘life-is-one-big-joke’ idea/insight/realisation, however authentic, is that it can be used to justify any old irresponsible rubbish by those for whom it’s not a reality, just a sort of attractive idea/concept.

          Which, I suppose, is pretty well par for the course for more or less all philosophical or spiritual ideas/concepts that are taken on board by people who have no experience of the reality behind the ideas.

          Thus something that was originally alive as the living truth of someone’s or some people’s life degenerates into mere belief, ie the realm of foolishness and fools. In a word, into ‘religion’ (Shantam, please note!).

  12. simond says:

    What is enlightenment ?

    Behind the troublesome, quarrelsome mind is a mystery. The mind is always thinking, worrying and living in the past or the future; but in this moment we are able to discover and explore the mystery.

    The mystery isn’t clever or intellectual. It is in this moment only, here, present, tingling with possibility and yet simple and real. You can sense the mystery and you can know its presence, just by recognising or being here and now.

    All our worries about life are all components of the thinking, rational mind. All fear-based and future or past-based. But inside you now, as you read this, is the very power you may have been seeking and lost. Here. Now. Where everything is ok. Just alive and present. Can you sense this as you read this? If you do, you are enlightened.

    No need for long sessions of Dynamic Meditation, no need for Kundalini. Just the simple acknowledgement of this body here and now. This is the enlightened state of mind. If we need to give it a name.

      • simond says:

        Arpana

        I know it through a process of self-discovery. I don’t know it intellectually. I have to discover it every day. Each moment is new, vibrant and alive, and I must be vigilant to the discovery every day.

        I listened and studied Osho and tried to follow his instructions and I practised what he taught me and made it my own. I learned to look within and I explored with others, with an intensity and need to solve the question of my suffering and my sense of loneliness. Many people helped me with their ignorance and their understanding.

        But as I say, it is a never ending process to remain attuned to the moment, to living in the now. It is always a process of learning and living as honestly as possible.

        • Arpana says:

          “I know it through a process of self-discovery. I don’t know it intellectually. I have to discover it every day. Each moment is new, vibrant and alive, and I must be vigilant to the discovery every day.”

          No, you don’t.
          Everything you post here screams ‘parroted’.

    • shantam prem says:

      Simond, can you tell something about you as a small biographical note. It will shed some light whether you are really wise to write something about meditation kind of things or you are like a chap who adds dry bread in the cheap beer and visualises it as Whiskey!

      • simond says:

        Shantam Prem,

        I’m not sure how any bio details will truly help you determine whether I have any “wisdom” or right to offer any understanding I may, or may not have.

        If anything makes sense to you, use that in your life; if it doesn’t, then discard it. Or I’d gladly try to explain myself further.

        In my previous posts I did mention that I was once a member of the Sannyasin flock. I loved Osho. But as he always said, don’t tie yourself to anything, follow your own path. This is what I’ve done.

  13. shantam prem says:

    Follow your own path as if 6.5 billion people are not following.

    Few follow in the cult, few in the religion, few walk alone, few walk together; and yes, world´s smartest ego bombs once came closer to Osho, simply to realise, I am ok, you are ok!

    Are you on facebook, Simond? Is there some blog where one can see your face and its wisdom lines?

    (MOD: LAST PARAGRAPH DELETED AS IRRELEVANT. SHANTAM, Simond STANDS FOR Simon D, IT’S NOT A SURNAME!)

    • simond says:

      No, Shantam Prem, there are no wisdom lines on my face and I don’t use facebook. Why the emphasis on what I look like?

      Many came to Osho to follow, some to listen and to learn, others because they wanted to join a club and to feel safe.

      To learn that that “I am ok” may seem simplistic to you. Yes, it has a ring of simplicity about it, but essentially, the message is a profound one.

      What, Shantam Prem, is enlightenment to you?. Can you offer me some assistance? Or do you prefer the debate to be about personality and looks?

    • frank says:

      More brain salad surgery from man with bottle in front of me and full frontal lobotomy!

  14. navina says:

    Is enlightenment even relevant? It seems that many people miss the joy of the present moment by continuously striving/working for some future state where they can then enjoy the present moment.

    • prem martyn says:

      That’s very true…unless you’re planning on going out tomorrow to enjoy yourself.

    • simond says:

      I agree wholeheartedly, in many ways the question is irrelevant, particularly as the emphasis should, in my opinion, be based on doing exactly as you describe, living in the moment. The enlightenment question certainly confused me for a long time, until, like you, I saw through the intellectual aspects of it. From here the only logic left was to realise the simplicity of the fact that englighenmemt is just that…Living in the moment.

      Of course, for most of us the next question is: And do we do that? How do we live in the moment, when faced with so much mind, inside and outside of us?

  15. Lokesh says:

    Enlightenment is a word that can be used in a variety of ways, with many different meanings. We might use the same words to convey something, but the meaning we wish to communicate is often quite the opposite of the other person’s. This is the essential problem with everyday language and the reason why nobody really understands what anyone else is saying.

    It is important, when it comes to the inner world, to develop a special language to dscribe the terrain. From what I see, after running through the above comments, not one of you is actually doing that. Most of the above is just a re-run of old dreams, programmes, habitual thinking, parroting etc. Therefore the simple conclusion is that nobody has a clue about what they are talking about.

    Enlightenment is something very far away for all of us, no matter that you might have heard otherwise. Nodody here is enlightened, right? It’s like thinking about the view from the top of the Empire State Building, while standing on the ground floor waitng on the elevator. In other words, the journey is just beginning and you think you know so much about the destination from having read books, or listening to descrptions from people who have been or live at the top.

    I suggest you forget about enlightenmet altogether and concentrate on the journey That way you won’t waste time and energy thinking and dreaming about soething which you have absolutely no understanding of.

    • Arpana says:

      “Enlightenent is something very far a away for all of us, no matter that you might have heard otherwise. Nodody here is enlightened, right? It’s like thinking about the view from the top of the Empire State Building, while standing on the ground floor waitng on the elevator. In other words, the journey is just beginning and you think you know so much about the destination from having read books or listening to descrptions from people who have been or live at the top.”

      That is one of your top posts since I began to join in here.
      So succinct.

      Smokin’ El Loko.

    • Kavita says:

      Lokesh, for me & maybe most of the sn’ners, seems this suggestion has been pre-received, thanks anyway, cheers!

  16. prem martyn says:

    Lokesh, I’m lost for words…
    Oh, but here’s one we all understand…

    Shantam.

    Mmm, that feels better…don’t know why, just does.

  17. shantam prem says:

    “Enlightenent is something very far away for all of us, no matter that you might have heard otherwise. Nodody here is enlightened, right?”

    Therefore the relevant question and search should be why there are so less enlightened beings in its true sense of the meaning. Why there are so less masters and why so many priests and teachers? Is it nature´s way to produce more ants and cats and less elephants and tigers?

    As I am writing this, I remember Osho’s assertion on similar lines during the beginning of his public life. His emphasis to create His kind of ashram was based on the ‘Ashram as factory’ kind.
    As the life has shown, it is easier to create yoghurt out of milk, shoes out of leather but not enlightenment out of general knowledge of the men!

    If Osho´s gravestone has some meaning, we the people on the Earth should forget about Enlightenment. We are not visitors on this planet Earth.

    Visitors from where?

    From where came the Jesus; his father´s kingdom! (MOD: IS THIS LAST SENTENCE A QUESTION, SHANTAM?)

  18. shantam prem says:

    MOD, last sentence is for irony.
    Christianity gives too much focus on Jesus being the son of God coming from his father´s kingdom.
    20 century later, when we say about someone, “Never born, never died, only visiting this planet Earth”, intention is the same – to glorify as an UFO, as messiah…

    And then close disciples from the West say, “Osho did not want to create religion.” OSHO is the founder of a religion, a new religion, a better religion. We can put this in the garbage bin but fact remains.

    Yesterday, I have seen a range of shoes called “No Brand.” Sannyasins are playing tricks with their own mind and reaching nowhere, not even here and now.

  19. prem martyn says:

    Many of us wouldn’t have and maybe don’t give two stuffs about being enlightened per se for we have lists worth of plaguing ill-at-easements, never mind any god-awful situations to face, and let alone another item that serves as a promised cure-all in the never, never.

    Osho’s unique trick, better than all the rest of the guru-guys and girls self-realised ones put together, was in creating the potential for higher quality experiencing, the yearning for love, social, personal, metaphysical, corporeal – and then giving it loads of attention.

    All culminating in large doses of collective and individual sannyasihoodnesses and goodnesss gracious me-ness. Those ensuing photos of us or him then sent out the message and still do, of that quality of beatitude, which is endemic in our make-up, even if only just slightly teensy weensy at times.

    In some it’s a suspicion, in others it’s a practice, in some it’s a disposition, in others it’s a jealousy of wellness in others that bothers. Osho’s bringing trouble to people’s lives was the table-tipping, without which we don’t even begin to feel how poor we have allowed ourselves or been conned into being.

    And without those moments of absolute grace, or whatever each spirit has known for itself of Him, then these references become subsumed and are left unattended to, not a big deal on the scale of things, but isn’t it brill to have a reference point in the flesh (ok, once in the flesh) ie Osho?

    That’s why it’s ridiculous and unhelpful to create a problem out of it or oneself at all, as Navina helpfully pointed out.

    And now for some more Van the Man…Sing it, don’t say it….

  20. prem martyn says:

    Whatever enlitenupabitment is not…then I’m sure I have achieved it.

    It’s all a question of agreeing with yourself…

    A thinking, time-wasting, cunning punter, who can’t sit still for two minutes, lacks the will to blog more than three inches of tripe and suffers from having no positive things to say about feeling negative in Dynamic.

    And happily sings along to Van Morrison instead of choosing to watch/hear/sit with Osho videos for their healing, long-lasting effect.

    What hope is there for people like this ? Please send donations….

    • Lokesh says:

      Van the Man again:
      A friend of mine drove Mr Morrison over to visit Sting one sunny aftenoon. They arrived at the gates of Sting’s massive mansion and Van requested my friend to turn the car around. “Why?”, asked my surprised friend. “Because”, replied Van, “Sting has a bigger house than me!” True story.

      • prem martyn says:

        It’s a serial case of implication through association. An ideal case for stories around the campfire.

        Tell me more about your driver friend. Is he from Stockholm? Was the Van-man in a taxi? Did/does he know that Osho connects Van, Sting and Dire Straits’ bass guitarist John Illsley via Osho, also through you, me and thus via Parmartha and millions of bloggers?

        The story so far:
        Rumour has it (re Van ) that Van had a sannyasin lady Ma-girlfriend in his orchestra back in the eighties, that Sting was hooked into Teertha via those tantric hob-knobbing sessions, some few years ago, and that John Illsley’s first wife, Pauline, was a sannyasin, whom I used to do rebirthing sessions with when I was barely 24, and she never let-on about being his wife until I went round their house in Clapham and asked, per chance, from seeing a guitar and a bio-book on Dire Straits, if her husband was a guitarist. And she said, “Er, yes, he’s the bass guitarist in the band.”

        It was then I took a deep breath.

        Pass the cider…Did I ever say about the time Sinead O’Connor crossed my path? I have the story available on a re-wind loop tape, for winter evenings.

        • satyadeva says:

          Oh, the glamour of Sannyas!

          Really, who gives a monkey’s?

          • prem martyn says:

            You stick with Ivor Cutler, SD. He’s the joker type…

            http://www.savevid.com/video/happy-monkey-dance.html

            • satyadeva says:

              Well, Martyn, clearly you give a monkey’s!

              But VERY SERIOUSLY, old chimp, er, I mean chap (of course), isn’t it about time we saw through the ‘glamour’ of wealth ‘n’ fame, however talented any individuals might be?

              I’d bet if we were to actually live with any of them we’d very soon realise we’d been fools to set them (or anyone) up as ‘special’ on some pedestal of our ego-compensation-driven imaginations. Come on, Martyn, get away from that gossip column!

              Also – oh, there goes my mobile, must be Van or Sinead, maybe Elvis, they always call me on Fridays – ‘bye!

              • prem martyn says:

                I’m a ghost writer for Halo-Sho magazine .. I do the captions for the photos..That’s my day job.

                I write here to support Parmartha’s efforts at sponsoring Camden’s multi inclusive, non-discriminatory policy on blogging as a means of spiritual inclusivity via words arranged in no particular order, for populist consumption… In short…
                I blame Parmartha….

  21. simond says:

    First of all, thanks to those who have offered a sincere and genuine response to me, a recent visitor and contributor to this site.

    I considered this site to be a forum for Sannyasins and others to discuss many of the questions that Osho spoke about for many years. As a Sannyasin myself, in London and Poona I met many sincere seekers of the truth and have friends who were involved for many more years than I was.

    How strange, therefore, to meet with such hostility and cynicism on the forum.
    How has this come about in some, but not all of the contributors?
    Why, when I offer an opinion, are there times when it is met with such hostility?

    I think it’s worth asking the question.

    I recognise that by offering an opinion as I do, I raise myself up above the parapet and suggest I “know something”. This can feel arrogant and egotistical to some. I’m aware of this in myself.

    What right I have to say anything? How have I earned the right?

    You see this fear amongst scholars and in school. If a student suggests their own opinion about a subject they are reminded they mustn’t do that. You must be an ‘expert’, with the correct qualification before you can reveal your opinion. You must always refer to some previous scholar who ‘knows’ far more than you do.

    It seems similar in the so-called spiritual world, where you must have studied under some great master before you can have an opinion. Amongst older sannyasins, unless you were with Bhagwan at the very beginning you aren’t a true Sannyasin. If you didn’t do your time on the Ranch, you are considered less.
    Am I being too simplistic?

    It seems here too, some contributors are threatened by me because I am unfamiliar to them. Who are my friends? Where did I come from? What is my bio? Where is my photo? I must reveal a Facebook page to prove my credibility.
    Others criticise me for parroting? But they don’t show how or who? Perhaps a hint or two at a Barry Long clone?

    My suggestion is that this unfamiliarity makes some contributors afraid and insecure. If they ‘knew me’ they could quickly decide…”Oh, he’s a nobody or a somebody”. If they knew and liked me they could agree with me, and if I’m a nobody with no credibility, they can easily dish me as a waste of space.

    Some of the commentators reveal how they haven’t discovered anything new for themselves and they aren’t going to let anyone else think for themselves either. Better to criticise and keep their heads down. Keep out of sight, just make personal criticisms and stay with the mob.

    Fear is a real killer of consciousness. People are so afraid to think for themselves.

    Another possibility is that some of the contributors ‘gave up’ seeking what the Master, Osho, so generously offered us. Because the journey is hard, full of setbacks and confusion, some have settled for the comfy life of cynicism and false identity.

    The false identity being “we are special because we followed the great mystic Osho”. Instead of doing the work yourselves, you slumber in the memories of Poona One and the energy darshans.

    Or you quote Osho’s words like parrots and Christians, instead of discovering for yourself what is true and what is false. Any fool can quote Osho, a parrot could be taught to speak his words – your personal ideas and contributions would be far more help to others than a mere quotation. We all know Osho contradicted himself all the time, any one quotation can be challenged by another.

    Others don’t even bother to make any suggestion, except to direct me to trite YouTube sites. Isn’t that a sad state of affairs ?

    I remember sannyasins who listened to Osho and who were transformed by his words and his teaching. I was one of them. Yes, there were many confused and doubtful after Oregon. But at least the essence of his teaching made sense to many, even if there was confusion about ‘enlightenment’ and the machinations of Sheela. Osho certainly made sense to me.

    What is remarkable and is, perhaps a longer lasting legacy is that it appears that there are still young people reading his books and travelling to India who are inspired by Osho as well as many other more modern teachers.

    I’ve been saddened by some of the comments on the site, but I will continue to add my halfpenny’s worth if you will allow me.

    • Arpana says:

      Passive-aggressive and manipulative. Interesting qualities in a character who appears to be setting himself up there with Osho.

    • Lokesh says:

      Simond enquires, “Am I being too simplistic?”
      Possibly.

      • anand yogi says:

        Perfectly correct, Simond!

        Again the cynical dogs and trite baboons of Sannyasnews fail to recognize a true seeker with genuine wisdom to impart!

        Simond, I feel your pain, I am also saddened by the reaction of these blind fools, I feel your sincere tears running down your cheek like the mighty Ganga in rainy season!
        If only these fools could understand!
        (sniff)

        Fear not, but continue to stick your head above the parapet and rise to heights unknown by fools who wallow in the delusions and slumber of the past that you have left far behind!

        Remember, Simond, to be grateful and well as compassionate to these fools who are threatened and run a mile when they get a whiff of a real teacher such as yourself turning up!

        Do not worry, continue to put your head above the parapet and continue to be inspired by the actions of that most famous Australian guru, whom you have clearly been so influenced by.

        Remember the final scene of ‘Crocodile Dundee’ when the hero runs over the heads of the foolish and cosy crowds like a sheep-farmer in order to follow woman and reach his destiny in the here and now? That is you, my friend, a hero not afraid to rise high and trample on the cosy illusions of deluded crowds of sheep-like people!

        Continue to heroically stand up for what you stand for and continue to strike fear and terror into the minds of these non-here-and-now, trite, cynical, closed baboons of SannyasNews.

        It is a vitue to be simple, Simond!

        Yahoo!

    • Ashok says:

      Dear Monsieur or is it Mademoiselle Simond?

      I feel I should at this point in time offer you a few friendly words of advice so as to alleviate what seems to be a very sad and painful experience for you.

      Firstly, remember above all, that many of the contributors on this site are males of UK birth and breeding, and are therefore accustomed from an early age to mercilessly ‘ripping the arse’ (criticising, making fun of etc.), out of their friends and loved ones. Therefore, please understand that what you think is ‘hostility’ is really a sign of love and friendship, which is geared towards helping you strip out your ego and thus enabling you ultimately, to reach ‘enlightenment’. Now nobody ever said that was going to be an easy road to take, did they, Simond?

      Secondly, be grateful for all the attention you receive. I myself have often contributed to SN various works of prose to a high degree of enlightenment and wisdom – ONLY TO BE MET WITH A DEAFENING SILENCE AND ROARING LACK OF INTEREST! Would you want to swap places with me, Simond? I doubt it somehow!

      Finally, also remind yourself of what Osho himself said about taking a ‘non-serious’, fun approach to life and you won’t, in my opinion, go far wrong. Consequently, avoid at all times going into ‘poor sad little me’ mode and if you do, remember that it is you who wants it that way! On a more practical level, try to reflect all the negative, nasty projections you have received, back the way they came and you will surely find yourself well on the way to enlightenment!

      From your very own favourite Agony Aunt, Ashoka

      • shantam prem says:

        Are not you Agony Uncle, Ashoka?
        As an Indian, I know Ashok(a) as an Indian name.

        Thanks for preparing Simond for the whips!

        • Ashok says:

          Sometimes, I get a bit confused about who and what I am, SP! Maybe I need some help?

          And about those whips you mentioned, do you mean that group of closet queens that hangs around Queen’s Wood in London, who like to jump on unwary seekers (like your good self) and dish out a spanking/whipping?

      • simond says:

        Aunt Ashoka,
        Oh, thanks so much, you made me laugh my socks off. All you say is so true and I’m far too serious. Can we get together because I need you in my life. You’re a darling.
        You’ve made my day!

        Lots of love,

        Simond

      • simond says:

        Dear Aunty Ashoka,

        You’ve made my day! You are so lovely and I love what you say. I’m far too serious and up myself. All you say about me is absolutely correct! And you have tickled me pink with your humour and insight. My girlfriend is sitting next to me and getting very jealous! Can we get together?

        You’re a darling and thanks for reminding me what an arse I am!

        Lots of love,

        Simond

        • satyadeva says:

          Oi, you bastard, Simond, you’ve just bloody ruined my effin’ anal-ysis of your effin’ posts!

          Who do you think you are, eh, eh? C…t!

          • prem martyn says:

            Sufi has certain skills, one of them is adopting writing voices, the other is writing for the satire site newsbiscuit about Oinkment and viruses.

            Sort of Frank-Yogi in reverse.

            Nice.

            • Oinkba says:

              Beloved Prem Martyn,
              I would like to recommend you this mushroom, one of Oinkba’s favourite treats.
              I can picture you jumping up from your desk and clapping with joy as you feel you have found a link between ‘Sufi’ and ‘Oinkba’.

              But although in enlightenment, we are all the same ‘PERSON’, in fact on this earth we all have different minds,different bodies.
              Thus we are One, however ‘Oinkba’ and ‘Sufi’ are in fact separate.

              I wish you a fantastic lunch.

              • prem martyn says:

                I’m phoning the Victorian Truth-Sleuthing Detective Agency immediately !

              • frank says:

                Oink,
                If you are munching those ‘shrooms you won`t know the difference between your ass and your elbow, never mind Sufi or Oinkba.

                Btw, how is the mushroom season this year?
                Warm and damp and a late frost…
                Ideal for a few psychotic episodes thru the looking glass…
                Remember what the dormouse said…
                Feed your head…
                Happy daze, man….

                • Oinkba says:

                  Frank,

                  Oinkba’s diet is rich and varied. Many delicous foodstuffs are sampled.
                  Generally, I would suggest that if you enjoy lots of running, or swimming then I would go for plenty of parsnips, turnips or some fruits.

                  If, however, you wish to obtain the ability to roll under the door, grow larger than your house, or communicate with aliens, then the mushroom is probably best for you.

        • Ashok says:

          Please don’t mention it, Simond! Here on SN, as Lokesh said, nobody is ‘enlightened’ yet, and we all seem to suffer from ‘arse’ problems from time to time. I find that the best salve to apply to this ubiquitous complaint is to take a ‘tongue-in-cheek’, non-serious approach.

  22. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Lokesh,

    I am all with you, when you state the fact, that´s its all about ´the journey´.

    However , I am wondering , where you place yourself , when you are judging merely all contributions as dreaming s in the utter dark without any understanding.
    You are too clever , to claim , you are the one, standing on top of an ´Empire State Building ´, to look down at the in darkness unconscious ´crawling masses
    (contributors) without any understanding´ , no , you wouldn´t claim that .
    But in an indirect way, you are doing just that with all the eloquence given as a talent , you have.
    I have been waiting for your ´cool ´, before responding to this, as I am asking myself , how you really feel about others here , although it is a virtual caravanserai , true , but it DOES matter as we are not yet totally in a robot setting, are we ?
    The title to the string is well responded ….this remarkable named string titled: “What Enlightenment is NOT” ! as it cannot be spoken nor written .

    But people can try their best to share about their journeys of trial and errors.

    Also song writer can … also poets can… also film makers can… and its all about the ´journey´ .

    I have heard that the ´spiritual EGO´ is the hardest one to dissolve.
    And I remember times when the laughter was not one of contempt about the errors of ´others´- remembering therewith times where I felt in heaven on earth
    and being blessed sitting with a Blessed one, in a Sangha like this.

    When you write that a new language has to be found for such kind of territory, I all agree – and why not start with erasing contempt howsoever hidden or vanity – howsoever hidden ?

    In the movie ´The Fifth´s Element´ an alien came onto this earth , being a supra elite entity , but one thing was this entity didn ´t know anything about.

    We call it Love. On Earth.

    The cartoon, Frank posted , was not that bad; not at all, I have been surprised and have been remembering much of the last two decades… painful…

    Madhu

    • Lokesh says:

      Em….er…Madhu…somehow I get it that you want some kind of response on a number of points…but even if I could be bothered trying to give a full in-depth response, I am not sure where best to begin.

      For example, you say, “But in an indirect way, you are doing just that etc.” You don’t actually know if that is true. Which leaves me feeling I simply don’t have the energy to waste explaing myself to you, because it is not important to me. It is as simple as that.

  23. Parmartha says:

    Thanks for your latest contribution, Simond.
    When you say:
    “Amongst older sannyasins, unless you were with Bhagwan at the very beginning, you aren’t a true Sannyasin. If you didn’t do your time on the ranch, you are considered less. Am I being too simplistic?”

    I am a physically old sannyasin, but don’t have this view at all. Some young people I meet today, in and out of sannyas, may well have more.

    Socrates’ crime (for which he was executed) was basically mixing with young people, the accusation being that he was corrupting the young.

    There is a flush in some human beings before being weighed down by the world, or somehow escaping the normal routes of life, when the spirit soars beyond what it might later be. One is sure it was with those Socrates spent his time, and amongst whom many were attracted to Osho both when he was alive and in current time.

    • simond says:

      Parmartha,

      You always were a genuine guy, with a good heart and a soul.

      Like you too, I notice the speed and consciousness of young people. They are faster, more direct, less afraid and in many ways ‘more’ than older people like me. As you put it, the older are often ” weighed” down by the past.

      To keep alive and to stay fresh and open takes energy and will.
      It helps to mix with the right people as well.

      Like you, I am endeavouring not to get old and stale.

      • satyadeva says:

        Simond, what was your sannyasin name?

        I’m ok with most of your points, I find you straightforward and honest, although your style tends to be a little, shall we say, ‘stilted’, perhaps even somewhat on the ‘dull’ side for a sannyasin audience that often enough (but not always) tends to go more for the ‘energy’ of humour, emotionalised expression, flights of fancy (as it were), ‘glamour’, the excitement of community/political concerns and ‘character assassination’ (aka ‘harmless banter’) – with a bit of meditative awareness thrown in now and again, of course…

        Your approach is just a bit (or a lot) ‘too near the knuckle’, too stripped of what might be termed ‘creative psychic diversions’, for the comfort of this particular clientele. As such, it’s unlikely to make you popular as it just doesn’t fit. ‘Different strokes’ and all that.

        In a way, you coming here is like two worlds meeting – and, despite good intentions and best efforts, generating misunderstanding, conflict and rejection, rather than an enhanced perspective.

        As well as finding your statement on the superior status of long-time and Ranch sannyasins to be dubious, I’d disagree with your view that educational ‘authorities’ discourage independent thought and viewpoints. That might well be true for the sciences etc. but it most definitely is not the case for the humanities, where, for example, I was urged by my English and History teachers to think for myself from the age of 15, rather than merely regurgitate others’ views.

        • prem martyn says:

          2/10 Must Try Harder.
          Report to House Prefect, St Sannyas Dorm, for Cleaning Duties.
          Copy by Evening Prayers, 500 times: I must not belittle my blogging cohorts, even if I have never nor will ever meet them or especially if I vicariously enjoy typing and listening to my own voice in the second and third person singular and plural.

          • satyadeva says:

            Yes, Martyn, that is indeed what I wrote. Now cut along, boy, and get those lines to me asap.

            • prem martyn says:

              Dear Sir,

              Our client’s joke are copyright. They may not be copied, transferred, borrowed or extended without paying a large sum to Save The London Sannyas Tree Lodge and Scout-Cabin Charity.

              We would ask you therefore to desist, write your own and delete any previous attempts by unenwritening them, asap, in accord with the title above.

              Sincerely,

              Chatt, Chitter and Android

              Online Spiritual Solicitors,
              Spittlefields.
              London

        • simond says:

          Satyadeva,

          Thanks for your kind and generous comments!
          My Sannyas name was Rakkas.
          I do understand your comment about 2 worlds meeting, having been out of Sannyas for many years. You write well about the “misunderstanding” and I enjoy reading many of your thoughtful posts.

          Thanks,
          Simon

          • satyadeva says:

            Simond (formerly Rakkas), do you have a brother, Leelanada? If so, I remember you from the 80′s, eg when you used to play cricket for the ‘Sannyasins-and-fellow-travellers’ (aka The Muswell Hillbillies) team at Parly Hill and Regent’s Park!

            • simond says:

              Yes, you are correct and I did play cricket in the 1980′s, gosh, that makes it a long time ago now!!!

              Sorry, but I don’t remember you, such is the fact of old age and memory loss.
              But I’m sure you were a great batsman/bowler/fielder!

              • satyadeva says:

                Do you recall the guy who organised the matches? That was me!

                • simond says:

                  Well Satyadeva , I have much to thank you for. I was not a bowler or a good batsman, but I enjoyed the sun and the company.

                  One day I caught a blinder of a catch, leaping with an outstretched left hand in the gully.
                  Time slowed almost to a halt as I took the catch, it was a sublime, almost spiritual experience, which I can almost relive at will.

                  Strange eh? Your organising helped create such a magical moment for me.
                  Thanks, again!

                • satyadeva says:

                  I remember that catch, it was at Parly Hill, wasn’t it? Have you worked out yet how it was done – or even who did that?! Pure, instinctive action, uncontaminated by thought or imagination – a sight to behold, but even better to experience (or should I say, ‘witness’?) – magical!

                • simond says:

                  Re the catch! My God, you remeembered it as well! That’s extraordinary after all these years. As you say, it was instinctive and with no time for my mind to fear or think.

                  What has been also fascinating is how I can remember the feeling, the timelessness of that moment, today. It imprinted something in my mind! Odd, eh?

  24. shantam prem says:

    “Amongst older sannyasins, unless you were with Bhagwan at the very beginning, you aren’t a true Sannyasin. If you didn’t do your time on the Ranch, you are considered less. Am I being too simplistic?”

    Basically, these are the people who downgraded Osho’s work from behind and front.
    The shareholders who became consumers!

  25. shantam prem says:

    “How many girlfriends you had, Swami-ji, when you were in the ashram?
    Can you tell something about this in your spiritual growth?”
    “Ma, I have heard you came to Osho with your husband. Then you dropped him and have many boyfriends. It must be a liberating experience?”

    If someone wants to check the integrity and inner journey of such old sannyasins and their golden era, above are few of the valid questions to ask.

    Very few have the guts to stand for Osho-generated lifestyle!

  26. navina says:

    Um…just what is your definition of an “Osho generated lifestyle”?

    • shantam prem says:

      Osho generated lifestyle is the life lived around Osho’s presence in his created communes, whether Pune 1, Rajneeshpuram or Pune 2.

      Osho genearted lifestyle was the throne in the eyes of all, this is what made him provocative, far out, dangerous.

      Osho genearted lifestyle is that way of life which died a slow death after the departure of the master.

      • navina says:

        Thanks for the response. I would say that without a Buddha there is no buddhafield, therefore if that is your definition of an Osho-generated lifestyle it’s pretty much impossible, by definition.

        On the other hand, I think many of us learned about living true to oneself, with awareness, with the ability to not take too much seriously – so if that were an Osho-generated lifestyle, there are many who still do that.

        I don’t understand the relevance of your questions about sexual activity to inner journey or integrity but perhaps I’m just being dense.

        • satyadeva says:

          “I don’t understand the relevance of your questions about sexual activity to inner journey or integrity but perhaps I’m just being dense.”

          It’s simple, Navina, for Shantam, the most significant feature, even the be-all and, er, ‘end’-all of an “Osho-generated lifestyle” was having access to thousands of available women – well, in his dreams anyway.

          Try re-reading almost everything he writes in the light of this sense of deprivation. That’s what he misses so much, that’s the source of his chronic discontent. The rest is more or less ‘padding’, what amounts to a ‘front’ of psycho-spiritual mumbo-jumbo with, of course, plenty of obsessive politics.

          Totally understandable, nothing necessarily ‘wrong’, I guess – after all, sex is the very root of our lives, arguably the key area to ‘get right’ – but Shantam often puts up a whole smokescreen here to try to fool himself and others that he’s more concerned about other issues, instead of realising where he’s really coming from.

          This particular post of his at least begins to spill – er, sorry, spell out his priorities.

        • shantam prem says:

          This you should have asked Osho:

          Beloved Osho,
          Can you explain something about sexual activity to inner journey or integrity? I see so many people, including the people who are living in Lao Tzu, changing their partners with meditative casualness?

          Does the sexual activity in the ashram premises make it different than the other ashrams in India?

          Please Osho, forgive me if I am too dense.

          • frank says:

            Interesting article in Daily Sannyas Male today:

            ‘Hare-brained religious fanatic defrauds German social security system to spread gospel of historic sex-sessions and mixed metaphors.’

            A court hearing in Nuremburg heard today that Shantam Singh, 52, unemployed, spent his days not looking for work, as the authorities, including his mum and his industrialist cousin-brother had instructed him, but had spent his days at the computer, stuffing himself with cheap meat and cakes from cut-price supermarkets whilst conducting a relentless online campaign of mixed metaphors, sexually-obsessive, quasi-religious allegories, racist slurs and unhygienically-prepared word-salads, whilst attempting to incite fellow bloggers into `regime-change` in an obscure ashram in India which he claimed was populated by alcoholics, baboons and aging, balding, paunched, bearded lotharios that he wished he was one of.

            Conducting his own defence, Shantam, a failed lawyer, claimed:
            “I will not move from computer until ripe mangos are again swinging and falling from trees with meditative casualness into the chuddies and bananas are becoming banana lassi again in virtual-reality-generated white-skin fantasy.”

          • navina says:

            This [or similar] question was in fact asked multiple times, usually by Indians who took great offence at the perceived ‘free’ sex. If you look through the discourses you will find his answer to it. I’m too lazy to go find them but this is the main idea I remember, correctly or not:

            Osho wanted his people to be non-repressed because he felt it was impossible to be meditative in a repressed state. So if one tries to deny basic energy then you spend all your time thinking about what you deny…kinda like when you go on a diet all you think about is food. If you try to meditate and instead of finding peace your mind is continually busy thinking about sex, then you miss.

            If all you see that was different about Osho’s teaching/buddhafield is free sex, IMO it’s kind of sad.

  27. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Thank you for your feedback, Lokesh, and have a beautiful day, wherever you are (at).

    Madhu

    • Lokesh says:

      Madhu, I am working intensively on a creative project at the moment. SN provides a small diversion to switch mindsets. If I post a comment it is purely for enlightentertainment.

      So forgive me if don’t have much to give in the way of response, I’m too preoccupied with what I am working on, which is, I must admit, a lot of fun. Hope to have a CD of music coming out before next summer – in many ways a dream come true.

  28. swami anand anubodh says:

    I consider myself to be unique amongst sannyasins in that I do not believe in any afterlife.

    Now that may sound a little nonsensical coming from somebody who has been (and to a certain extent still is) involved with (in my opinion) the greatest spiritual master who has ever existed.

    Confronting the prospect that when the physical body dies the captain goes down with the ship is counter-intuitive and can cause a very sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. Especially if you are seeking ‘Enlightenment’ and have acquired expectations of eternal bliss.

    It’s my experience that accepting this unpleasant reality is a requirement for being centred in the present.

    Unfortunately the so-called ‘enlightened ones’ never actually tell you this, they would rather fudge the issue. Either because they are not as enlightened as they think they are or fear that revealing the mortality of one’s existence would not gain them followers.

    Who is going to follow a guru who teaches “when you die you cease to exist”?

    Remember, Jesus’s big selling point was the promise of everlasting life. Sadly, there is no such thing as everlasting or eternal (except in fantasy and imagination).

    I know sannyasins persist in “Osho left his body” but the fact is Osho is dead and no longer exists as will be the same for all of us one day.

    Enlightenment is real and possible, but you are going to have to enjoy it while you can.

    It is NOT a ‘get out of jail free’ card.

  29. shantam prem says:

    Swami Anand Anubodh, the boy of 14 at the ripe age of 41 has written,
    “All sannyasins believe in an afterlife.”

    This makes me curious to know whether sannyasins belive/trust in God or God is dead?

    Most often, what is written in our holy book becomes more philosophy. Poor us, we have more than few hundred holy books!

  30. prem martyn says:

    “There is a different way of thinking in the Maidu tradition,” she explains.

    “We believe the way you reach richness in life is through knowledge. It gives you power and it is your responsibility to use that wisely. If you pass that knowledge on, you are responsible for the outcome. If someone misuses the knowledge you give them, if they use it to hurt someone, you as the person who gave it to them, are responsible for that hurt.”

    Language is a potent force – more than the words alone, it can communicate a community’s mindset, attitudes and priorities.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29804445

  31. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    There is stuff here coming up, going even deteriorating BELOW animal brain -

    There are in the big bang www. enough big bang websites serving drug and dope addicts, as porn and pops, or ballrooms for “lonely “hearts” ´for sado-maso chill ups and downs…

    WHY here at SN?

    Moderation is not just a word –

    And why do some of you just fuck up a website called Sannyas ´News´?

    Madhu

    • satyadeva says:

      Unless you cite specific instances, Madhu, no one can be sure exactly who or what you’re referring to.

      Come on, name subjects, name names!

      • Ashok says:

        Would I be rite, SD, in supposing that you would like to be ‘named’ and possibly ‘shamed’? Or is it my own personal conscious wish that I am projecting on your good self?

        Madhu, I believe, may have been doing some projecting of her own when she wrote:

        “And why do some of you just fuck up a website called Sannyas News?”

        P’haps this would explain why she is so reticent to answer the questions you put to her? She mite have to ‘name & shame’ herself! Oh how awful! Gott und Himmel! Donner und Blitzen! Tommy Schweinhund!

        • satyadeva says:

          No, Ashok, I’m not after ‘personal glory’, I genuinely don’t know what she’s complaining about.

          Otherwise, a lot of the time, Madhu, your posts are fine by me – and I realise you’re under pressure these days, so I guess that’s also a factor.

  32. shantam prem says:

    God does not exist at first place.
    Osho visited from somewhere.
    Jayesh is living among us, no one knows where.
    He is the dummy god of Osho Sannyas….

  33. shantam prem says:

    One more question which only Osho can answer, or someone who is always ready to answer:

    Beloved Osho,

    Is it posible to keep the fire alive after your departure? Can your energy field exist once you leave the body?

    If not, what is the purpose of this property expansion drive in your commune?

  34. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    “Unless you cite specific instances, Madhu, no one can be sure exactly who or what you’re referring to…”

    If you are the “no one”, who does not know what I meant, Satyadeva, I can’t help it.

    “Come on, name subjects, name names!”

    Sounds like a military agent for interrogation, Satyadeva…and is all not the least ‘inviting’ to share about a climate of interpersonal ´caravanserai affairs´.

    What I did was to share how I feel about the latter.

    Madhu

    • satyadeva says:

      You take offence too easily, Madhu, not for the first time resenting being advised what to do, this time choosing to imagine “military…interrogation”, with typical, defensive humourlessness.

      If you’re too stubborn to bother to “share” details then you’ve wasted your time putting up that post.

      • shantam prem says:

        Madhu is quite right, Satyadeva.
        Watch your attitude.

        Few examples to show what kind of mindset you are having:

        How do I know the victim of this road accident has died? I have not seen the news bulletin by the doctors.

        Just because there is a blood around the victim does not mean it is murder, it can be vomiting of the blood too.

        Who says condoms sold in the Osho Ashram are for sex? They can be used as preventive measures against unwanted pregnancy…

        If Osho is everywhere, why he does not ask for a date to Meera?

        • satyadeva says:

          Madhu is no doubt utterly delighted to count on you as a particularly sensitive supporter in this very important matter, Shantam.

          Your empathy with her shines a brilliant, yet softly penetrating light:
          Serious road accidents, murder, condoms ‘n’ sex-at-the-ashram, death, tasteless innuendo – I’m sure she just laps it all up with the utmost gratitude….

  35. swami anand anubodh says:

    Madhu,

    I totally agree with you, it is very disappointing to post ‘on topic’ and then have to endure a descent into infantile abuse, as that definitely gooseoversteps the mark.

    Why don’t you submit your own string for publication?

    Maybe it could be called: ‘My latest ‘beautiful’ morning bike ride through the Black Forest.’

    I am sure that would be welcomed by the editors.

    They may even let you act as a moderator so that you can disallow any comments that are too naughty.

  36. frank says:

    Maddy Shagmar Frantam:The ultimate word-salad?

    Attitude of Osho-generated caravanserai lifestyle of sharing has deteriorated below animal level as military interrogations on big bang.com with sado-maso ups and downs of condoms full of blood of demi-god dummy god Jayesh that does not exist on big bang http://www.websites in few hundred holy books in property drive.

    Stuff coming up in caravanserai sharing like doctor ejaculates into leaking condom in religious legacy as victim of road accident dies covered in blood due to military interrogation and asking for date with religion that does not exist?

    Makes me curious do sannyasins believe in after-life as all that I did was to share about the latter or the former.

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