When I first turned up in Poona in late 1974 there were no psychotherapy groups. But there were meditation programmes featuring all of Osho’s active meditations. As far as we knew then these meditations had been devised originally by Osho, and not just for westerners, but for all meditators. However there seemed to be a general consciousness that they were “preparations” for meditation proper or merging with the whole, not ends in themselves.
I must admit that when groups came along later, basically I saw them as an Esalen sort of import, but nonetheless different because they were occurring within the energy of Osho’s Buddhafield, and somehow more rich. They were of great value, but also of great financial value to the Ashram, and the latter should not be missed.
I see and include Arpana’s post below because I myself never saw these “precursors” to the final equanimity as so different. In fact when I began working in the Ashram, the work one was given etc, was often referred to also as the “final” group. And I think I myself experienced it in this way. I am interested in how people see this debate now. Are for example “groups” solely suited to the western consciousness. I remember Indian friends of mine feeling really quite hurt in the seventies by Laxmi’s insistence they did not do groups. (Parmartha)
From Arpana:
Given that Western meditators are faced with culturally unique forms of suffering, it follows that these particular types of suffering are best dealt with by the techniques of Western psychotherapy which have been developed within this culture to deal with the problems specific to this culture. Kornfield says:
Psychotherapy addresses in directed and powerful ways the need for healing, the reclamation and creation of a healthy sense of self, the dissolution of fears and compartments, and the search for a creative, loving, and full way to live in the world. (245)
Having established that Westerners undergo unique forms of suffering that psychotherapy has developed techniques to handle, Kornfield goes on to argue that meditation alone is not enough to heal many of the deep issues we uncover in the course of our meditation. Meditation alone is not enough. He makes the extraordinary claim that at least half the students at the annual three month retreat at the Insight Meditation Society cannot do traditional Insight Meditation, “because they encounter so much unresolved grief, fear, and wounding and unfinished developmental business from the past”. He follows up this revelation with a number of stories relating how specific students were blocked in their meditation but successfully resolved these blockages once they were able to identify traumatic events or unsatisfactory or even abusive relationships in their past. He also narrates stories of spectacular failure in spiritual practice when these issues were neglected. Indeed, much of Kornfield’s argument is based on case histories of meditational success and failure that all go to support his view of the limitations of traditional meditation without psychotherapy. While these stories are interesting and sometimes even instructional, the implications behind this view need to be teased out.
Here is a precursor video…
complete with a before and after of the effects of deep transformation … notice the spiritual smile and knowingness , with the Ahhaha of a Mr Lover Lover
http://www.download-facebook-video.com/ahhaha-mr-lover-lover/
kornfield seems childish…immature in the inner world…korny !!!
in the east we never deal with the mind emotions and its issues…
we simply jump out of the mind !!!
therapies deal with mind emotion issues…
and the more you enter and analyze…
the deeper it drags you into a infinite hall of mirrors…like quicksand…
the difference is vast and profound…
diametrically opposite in dimensions…
vertical versus horizontal…
therapies offer you understanding…
of the body mind emotion “ mechanism “
meditation is a quantam leap… into the “ state of no mind “
a vertical energetic transcendence…into the “ state of no mind “
all forms of groups and therapies effect only the body mind emotion
you are not the body…not the mind…not the emotions…
but a “ transcendental state “
a “ state of awareness “ a “ pure witness “ a “ presence “
when the body mind emotion fall…what will remain ???
your inner being…pure awareness…the witness…presence…
here lies the profound difference between the east and the west…
horizontal material…vertical spiritual…
OSHO tried to bring a synthesis between the scientist and the mystic
the material and the spiritual…but remember…
the material cannot understand the spiritual…
the spiritual can understand the material easily…
Swami Rajneesh, if someone needs to read about such matters they can simply read an Osho book. Much of what you say could have been copy and pasted from Osho quotes.
You declare, ‘in the east we never deal with the mind emotions and its issues…we simply jump out of the mind !!!’
That is a sweeping and superficial statement that does not address the serious social issues that are a direct manifestation of the repressed Indian psyche. It is inaccurate and misleading to declare such things as an absolute truth. It also ties in with the romantic image of India being some kind of super-spiritual place, which it is not. If you ask me the whole country needs a catharsis and could do with a megadose of therapy mainlined into its emaciated arm.
swami rajneesh says:
therapies deal with mind emotion issues…
and the more you enter and analyze…
the deeper it drags you into a infinite hall of mirrors…like quicksand…
I don’t think you understand the process swami. Group therapy is meant to strip you from the false realities you have constructed over your true self in order to hide your insecurities and your vulnerable centre.
As can never see ourselves but we are familiar with seeing others and judging them accordingly … in group work you can see ‘the other’ and their game/games, plus it allows you to also see yourself as ‘the other’ in order to make a valued judgment.
It is interesting where Mr P says that there were no psychotherapy groups in ’74 … what was still happening that at the point was that, you guys were still getting lots of ‘”attention”‘ from the old man and his penetrating gaze, riping right through your games. When he could no longer attend to each individually, he brought in the therapriests to replace the ‘exposure’ part of his work.
BV, that sounds pretty much like how it was.
Here everyone is claiming to help each other but nobody is giving atleast somewhat straight answer and clarity. No one is saying anything about their own progress , what situation they encountered in social life and inward life and thoughts during meditation. Nothingness or Enlightenment is far away thing but atleast who has stopped unnecessary chattering of MIND …. Anybody???? Nobody is answering simple Question. I am 21 year old …. doing my own business successfully. I am married with beautiful girl. And as i am totally comitted …. i dont have any thought about multiple or sex or this n that in my MIND. Even after marriage … i see beautiful girls in gym and many such places and appreciate their beauty. But i dont have a single repressed or dirty thinking in my MIND. I also say to my wife that today i have seen one beautiful girl and we enjoy beauty of life. I have read thousands of book , seen hundreds of movies , music , active in sports , travelling. Just 5 months ago i have started doing zen meditation and 90% unnecessary thoughts are stopped. remaining 10% thoughts are like …. if i say to my MIND dont think about MONKEY than Monkey will start jumping around. Sometimes just some song cont. to play inside mind. still there are some thoughts which remain in deepest of unconscious mind. When i started meditation ….at first extreme bad thoughts started to disturb mind ( bad thoughts that even i have not imagined about ) but slowly and slowly that thoughts lost power. From last one month i am not meditating as sudden fear has totally gripped me. I was utterly alone, isolated, terrified. It took enormous energy to get through each moment, I was only watching. I wasn’t part of the life going on around me. I was instead held hostage inside my own head. the world is closing in around me, I can’t breathe or scream for help and no one seems to be noticing kind of fear.
‘ I am 21 year old’ That’s a surprise. I thought you were much younger. You sound confused. Perhaps you should seek profesional help. (no joke)
at least he is very open about himself Lokesh instead of constantly commenting about others.and only 21 and already starting with meditation thats a wow!And confusing at that age is very normal..even at your age(85??)its normal chap keep it up:-)
And what recalls in you to say that he needs profesional help?Ow yess SCIFI get help from this all knowing man/women Lokesh haha (yes joke)
Atikarmo, could you please contact Dhyanraj. He needs to lose his virginity urgently and being such a sympathetic and understanding person I’m sure you could help him out. You guys will get along like a house on fire…you know, putting out the fire with gasoline and all that.
well Lokeshi old chap if you saw that picture from DR with the 2 beautifull girls..know that he is very fine and doesnt need my help:-)
Yes welcome to the house of fun!Wildfire indeed..dont worry we still on our own when we write:-)
And lokesh..maybe its good to tickle your loving wife at the right spot..you might be lucky for your sake:-)
many are saying that ZEN is best meditation. if u do any other meditation , vipassana etc. for long than u will become cucKoo. what is this becoming cuckoo ??? When OSHO sannyasins goes to goenka for vipassana…. OSHO has many times said that now we have to again work on this cuckoo s. What is cuckoo ??? anything birdie thing…. like unsteady mind …. cuckoo never belongs to crow thing.
I have many friends who have been practicing vipassana for years. Not one of them I could label as being cuckoo. A little serious and that is about it.
SCIFI,
You are so wise..and yet no one knows who you are?
Should i prescribe you a group to come clean and accept your identity and present yourself before the world!
Rajneesh speaks like Osho..
To mature ears, it sounds quite childish yet to the new born babies, he can be the successor of Dalai Lama from Jabalpur!
The way Shantam writes, he will be read but not taken seriously. He lacks the marketing skills of Halfway to love kind of group therapists and has no long beard required to be part of Indian guru gang started with Samdarshi!
My prognoses, he will die unemployed!
I once heard Osho say in a darshan that if you are attracted to encounter groups you should do vipassana/zazen, and those attracted to vipassana/zazen should do encounter groups. Something in that I feel.
Many Indians I knew in “Poona one” did not share Swami Rajneesh’s view above, they really wanted to engage in the group psychotherapy programme but were excluded by Laxmi without what they felt was good cause.
By the way are the Indians allowed in present time to do the full range of psychotheray groups offered by the Resort?
My feeling is that the distinctions between Osho meditations/therapy and work are not as distinct as commentators here seem to assume.
Running a marathon, doing a great day’s work in the agricultural field, going into a Veeresh “no sleep” group – all can have a sacred moment at the end of engagement, just before the “big sleep” – which is a total but conscious relaxation.
That’s saying introverts should explore extroversion, and extroverts introversion.
Been drawn back and forward between the two m’self.
I’m sure John Lennon would have agreed with that. He once described himself as an introverted extrovert. It sounded very deep at the time. John was into therapy way ahead of most people, participating in primal therapy long before anyone had heard of it.
osho never did any therapies himself – neither has rajneesh – and i dont think gautam or the other old buddhas of the past did either – and yet they became buddhas
therapy, playing with the mind/body/emotion is not a way to truth – moving into no mind is the way – osho’s active meditations like dynamic and kundalini can help clear the ground
the difficulty today with the sannyas movement is that therapy is promoted as a way to truth a way of sannyas – it is not and the idea that it is is like the false coin being taken for the real gold – the danger is that the real gold will be lost under the pile of false coin – and lost
Dhyan Raj, Osho’s active meditations are mainly therapeutic, just giving a taste of meditation, usually little more than that. That’s not to downgrade them at all, as they’re wonderful, but one usually has to find other methods as one goes on, appropriate to one’s individual needs.
Also, ultimately meditation is far more than a mere technique, it encompasses one’s whole life and is a way of being, not restricted to a few minutes here and there.
If Osho, Rajneesh and anyone else, east or west, has had no need of therapy, then good luck to them. But that in itself means little, possibly even that exceptions prove the rule.
Vast numbers have needed it, and still do, due to all sorts of negative conditioning. However, Rajneesh is absolutely right to emphasise that it’s only a sort of ‘cleansing’, to prepare the system for deeper inner exploration. And, as Osho and others have said, not something to become attached to, but something to give up as soon as realistically possible. So yes, your final paragraph above is spot on.
Dhyanraj, back in the day you would have been a prime candidate for Teertha’s encounter group. No doubt about it.
here is oshos own view of therapy and its place:
“Your priests, your politicians, your psychoanalysts, your professors…. live on your misery. They live on your being somewhere wrong. If you are perfectly right, they are useless.
Just the other night, one of my topmost therapists, Veeresh from Holland, asked me, “WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF OUR THERAPEUTIC EFFORTS?”
I said to him that, “OUR THERAPY IS JUST TO DESTROY all that has made man miserable, split, schizophrenic, insane, sick. But once our therapy has destroyed all this poison in the world, then THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR OUR THERAPY. It has done its work and there is no need for it to exist anymore.
“That has to be understood very clearly, because once you start doing something, IT BECOMES YOUR VESTED INTEREST. Then on the one hand, you go on doing what you are supposed to do, destroying sickness — and on the other hand you go on creating it, because without it you will be nobody.”
So my therapists have to understand from the very beginning that WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS TO BE PERMANENTLY THERE. It is only in the transitory period of humanity that therapy is needed. Therapy is needed because people have been made sick. Their sickness is not real, that’s why it can be cured very easily, very simply.
But remember always that YOU ARE NOT TO BECOME A PERMANENT PHENOMENON, because that means you will have to create sickness. You will have to create the same old game — perhaps under a new name. You have to be courageous enough, when the work is done, to retire from the work.
Become a gardener, become a farmer, a plumber or anything you can manage to do. But therapy should not be your profession. THESE ARE UGLY PROFESSIONS. We have to have them because in the past man has suffered so many wounds, they have to be healed. But just heal them, and once they are healed you move to some creative work.
It was compassionate of you to help human beings to be psychologically healthy. And this will be even more compassionate, NOT TO BECOME A PERMANENT SOURCE OF DEPENDENCE for all those people you have helped to be healthy. You have to know when the time is ripe for you to become farmers, gardeners — anything that you love, but be creative.
THERAPY IS NOT CREATIVE, THERAPY IS DESTRUCTIVE. It is destroying sickness which has been imposed on humanity. A better human world will simply accept realities and will not ask for fictions.”
OSHO
From Death to Deathlessness
Ch #32: Silence is the highest music
am in Rajneeshmandir
(capital letters from swami amrit subhuti who shares quotes from osho)
do you think Veeresh understand and put into practice this important teaching? Doesn’t look like…
Well, Sam got feedback; no mercy if there is not respect for woman – regardless of age and position in the resort. So, just take it in.
Rajneesh. It’s really boring to listen that fanatic stuff. Also, giving Osho meditations for free and then asking for charity (or what ever you call it when you ask money) is so cheap trick.
For the subject. Mediations AND therapy take you towards the creativity…then meditation (silence, more your self etc), paradox, but go together. No dance on roses, but impossible to return from the journey. Run if you still can:)
for the past 7 years…
i offer all OSHO meditations camps and events free…
and soon all OSHO groups / therapies / trainings for free…
based on donations as contributions of the heart !!!
some give nothing all but their tears and joy of participation…
some 5 dollars…some 1000 dollars…
each is valued for their participation…
a few wish to donate out of their love and financial ability…
we never see the donation basket…who gave what…
and are always surprised and grateful if we receive anything !!!
many have joined me for their entire life…
and that is the ultimate…
why ask for mere money…when you can take the whole !!!
is that a cheap trick ??
or am i wise !!!
no they dont fresch – naturally we are creativity itself already and no need for therapy or meditation techniques to take us to creativity
in the old days they said you need the priest to guide you toward god
nowadays the new business is therapriests who con people into believing they are needed on the way of sannyas – many young innocent seekers have been fooled as anand was telling us the other day
“Naturally, we are creativity itself already” – yes, DR, but how many are in touch with that source of creativity?
That’s why the cleansing of therapeutic methods is useful, often vital, for very many people.
Yes, therapists can get ‘above themselves’, they can see themselves (and be seen) as ‘priests’, but to say their ‘preparatory’ work is not needed at all is just irresponsible nonsense.
DR states, ‘many young innocent seekers have been fooled’. Yes that is true. All part of losing that innocence. Phoney spiritual teachers also fool the innocent. Ultimately it’s all for the good because, if made of the right stuff, you won’t be fooled so easily as you continue along life’s path. One could say it is all part of growing up and then once again regaining innocence, the differance being that the innocence will have become a conscious quality rather than simply something that is, to a lesser or greater degree, a byproduct of inexperience.
Fresch says, ‘It’s really boring to listen that fanatic stuff. ‘ I have to agree with that. On the other hand there is a certain fascination in watching the garbage these idiots spout, while talking about no-mind they come across as people trapped in a mind-set better suited to the Middle Ages or a Talban get-together, or maybe a George W Bush reunion…’ifyou are not with us you are against us.’
Thanks the point Dhyan Raj about Osho (and Rajneesh) never engaging in what we would normally call “therapy”.
In Osho’s case though, as self described he did go through a dark night of the soul, and his father took him thither and hither for a whole year seeking out medical help for his son’s, as Paritosh once described, “his hugh mental breakdown”.
Okay Osho got through it over a year or two on his own. But he had a lot of family support and was very lucky to have met one Doctor who told his father for him NOT to take psychiatric medication. During this time Osho found he had to run eight miles both morning and evening just to stay part way sane, so perhaps not such a distance between us and him. A good therapy can also help as a great support during such stages of “growth”, cos it usually insists on working with people who are not medicated, or certainly not on anti psychotic medication.
I dont know your own teacher’s background, but one imagines he also went through some period of serious disquiet and distraction, and maybe was supported by friends and family.
Such ‘dark night’ periods are usually or often caused by a profound process of psychological and/or emotional ‘death’, preparing the individual for the dissolution of his/her sense of ‘self’ (ok, ‘ego’, if you insist!). A sort of ‘death-in-life’ – terrifying, apparently.
(Not my experience or idea, but what I’ve understood from another source).
beloved parmartha
my death experience and passing through the black hole…
the dark night of the soul…was earth shattering…hair raising…
every fiber of my body and cell…was in shock…
was shaken into the initial fear of physical death…
i certainly went through great troubles…
and my explosion took many years to settle and stabilize…
spending over 14 years in silence in manali himalayas…
fortunately i was living in the silent state of vipassana…
and as i have publicly mentioned many many times
my beloved master OSHO saved my life and protected me…
yes i agree with dhyanraj pointing out that
OSHO himself never did any therapy…
neither did ramana…shirdibaba…krishnamurti…buddha…nanak…
lao tzu…rinzai…nor any enlightened master in the entire history !!!
those who move towards groups and therapies
also precondition themselves and create a new false conditioning…
especially after they paid huge sums to renowned learned therapists…
this becomes the new barrier to the search…
that they need to learn…learn more…
when they actually need…is to unlearn…
trust yourself…love yourself…accept yourself…
learn to listen to your silent inner voice
the search…
is for innocence…
Swami Rajneesh:
yes i agree with dhyanraj pointing out that
OSHO himself never did any therapy…
neither did ramana…shirdibaba…krishnamurti…buddha…nanak…
lao tzu…rinzai…nor any enlightened master in the entire history !!!
SD:
How strangely inappropriate that you should quote these great Masters. OF COURSE they didn’t have any therapy, there wasn’t anything remotely like what we have had in the last few decades in the West!
And they were EASTERN Masters, for God’s sake! Born into a comparatively non-materialist culture that basically tended to support spiritual searching. They wouldn’t have needed ‘therapy’ at all! A complete contrast to the sort of heavily intellectual materialist backgrounds where westerners have grown up and been conditioned.
If you don’t understand this basic point, then you’ll never properly understand westerners – and you’ll be likely, therefore, to lead them astray, as it seems you have Dhyan Raj in this respect.
And what about you, Satyadeva? Do you feel you yourself need therapy?
Bhakta, I started to meditate (ok, it was only TM, inspired by George Harrison and the Beatles) and became interested in yoga when I was 20 years old. Over a year and a half later I started 3-plus years of talking psychotherapy, before finding the ‘growth’ therapy movement in London, then, at 25-plus, dynamic meditation and Osho.
There followed many years of meditation, plus individual and group therapy, and many other things, including something approximating a ‘normal’ existence…In a way (at the risk of sounding utterly pretentious) I see my whole life as one long psycho-spiritual ‘therapeutic process’, a recovery from a difficult first two decades.
Now, after over 45 years of a multi-faceted life, I feel fortunate to have ‘survived’ – so far – relatively intact, and significant credit goes to help I’ve received from therapeutic resources. I trust you understand that if you are bent on belittling such resources then you won’t find an ally in me. As I’ve said here before, they’re not the ‘be all and end all’, but as well as providing ‘opening-up’ experience, they can be life-changers and for some, even life-savers.
As such, they have a place in ‘spiritual growth’ efforts, especially for new people. Maybe not for everyone, maybe not for you, but nevertheless a place.
SR says, ‘when they actually need…is to unlearn…
trust yourself…love yourself…accept yourself…
learn to listen to your silent inner voice’
Trusting oneself, loving oneself. accepting oneself and learning to listen to one’s silent inner voice are amongst the many benefits accredited to therapy. One can only conclude that you have no existential experience in regards participating in a therapy process and therefore you actually don’t understand very much about something you have chosen to cast a negative image of.
I suspect that for one reason or another you have chosen to do this because it simply does not fit into your current programme. Please don’t declare that you are not running on a programme, because even a blind man could see that you are. You obviously believe yourself to be some sort of authority on the matter. To me you are just another fish in the tank. An authoratarian fish…how exotic you are.
well lokesh its very fishy what you are saying isnt it ? i dont see why therapy is needed “to unlearn…
trust yourself…love yourself…accept yourself…
learn to listen to your silent inner voice”
an intelligent individual hearing this will simply look at himself and see if he is trusting, loving, accepting himself or not eh – if not a simple awareness is enough for him or her to change his attitude isnt it ?
i did an encounter group once in the days of first contacting bhagwan – a good way to meet new friends perhaps – and a break from usual daily life – after two or three days the high from this new experience was gone and i was back where i was before –
this is why it becomes a drug for some people – this therapy, that therapy, on and on – in the end all people get from it is they learn how to be therapists and also start exploiting others –
after all they have put so much money into paying these therapists they want to recover their investment –
meanwhile all meaningful search is completely lost
Dhyan Raj:
i dont see why therapy is needed “to unlearn…
trust yourself…love yourself…accept yourself…
learn to listen to your silent inner voice”
an intelligent individual hearing this will simply look at himself and see if he is trusting, loving, accepting himself or not eh – if not a simple awareness is enough for him or her to change his attitude isnt it?
SD:
If only it were so easy, Dhyan Raj…If you really believe it’s all down to changing one’s “attitude” then you really are ‘wading in the shallows’, with minimal understanding. Shockingly so, in fact, frankly.
Dhyan Raj:
i did an encounter group once in the days of first contacting bhagwan – a good way to meet new friends perhaps – and a break from usual daily life….
SD:
If that was the extent of your motivation, DR, then you were probably wasting your time anyway.
You know, as I’ve said on here, I’m well aware of the limitations of therapy, and you’re right, it can and has become a sort of ‘addiction’ for some, maybe many, its significance should be kept in balance.
But if that one group is the extent of your experience in the field then I suggest you clearly lack authority to make any sort of valid judgment about its potential value.
that was not my motivation in going into the group satyadeva – it was what i gained from the group -
i dont see why i would need to waste my life going from one group to another to examine their validity any more than i should waste my life becoming a politician to see if power and money would actually help me transform myself into a conscious human being
life is simple satyadeva – why allow the mind to make it so complicated with all these imaginations?
psychotherapy invents all kinds of problems for people to solve – its endless as fresch knows who has been sharing her experience of “doing all possible groups” in the post below
Dhyan Raj:
that was not my motivation in going into the group satyadeva – it was what i gained from the group -
SD:
Then, asI suggested before, you should make sure you communicate here clearly, as what you wrote indicates otherwise, or is at best ambiguous.
Dhyan Raj:
i dont see why i would need to waste my life going from one group to another to examine their validity any more than i should waste my life becoming a politician
SD:
Are you completely obtuse, or what, DR? Who’s saying that’s what you need to do? Not me! What’s ideally required from you is to actually listen and take note of others’ experience, if your own is so limited. As it is, you think you know something on which to base an ‘opinion’, whereas you self-evidently don’t. It’s called being “ignorant”, by the way.
As for “becoming a politician”, by the looks of things lately, you’re well on the way – in the little world’ of sannyas, that is.
Dhyan Raj:
life is simple satyadeva – why allow the mind to make it so complicated with all these imaginations?
psychotherapy invents all kinds of problems for people to solve –
SD:
What you (and Swami R) seem to wilfully overlook is the extent to which people attracted to ‘spiritual growth’ very often tend to come with a higher-than-normal amount of dysfunctional emotional baggage, which is the very first impediment to their ‘progress’.
In some cases, sure, just meditation, especially those of Osho, might help, but my experience (ie of myself and many others) tells me that most need to work on their body/mind, especially their emotional patterns first, or at least in tandem with meditation, to attain an acceptable degree of what might be termed ‘healthy functionality’.
Another highly relevant point is that Osho meditations – not to mention proximity to a spiritual teacher – can tend to bring hitherto repressed or ‘managed’ neuroses to the surface, which can often need further therapeutic attention, either in a group setting or via one-to-one therapy.
I trust you and Swami R take this on board, however much it might somehow ‘disturb’ you, as it would seem to be pretty essential information for the sort of work you are up to. As I said, I’m surprised, to put it mildly, that you are both apparently unaware of such factors, or choose to simply relegate them to ‘unimportant’
satyadeva
i simply cannot understand your clubbing swami rajneesh with satyam dhyanraj in each of your comments…
rajneesh is rajneesh…
dhyanraj is dhyanraj…
i place my messages myself directly…
and dhyanraj places his views directly…
so please we are not one and the same person…
Perhaps you should emphasise this to Dhjyan Raj as well, Swami Rajneesh.
“As the commune goes deeper and deeper into inner realizations, therapies can be dropped. When the commune has really bloomed, there will be no need of any therapy. Then love is therapy, intelligence is therapy. Then living day to day, moment to moment, aware and alert, is therapy.
Then all kinds of things that you do during the day, cleaning and cooking and washing, they are all therapy.
Therapies are here only for the time being. The day I become convinced that now the major part of you has gone beyond therapies, therapies will disappear, because then the major part will be able to pull the minor part into intelligence also.”
Osho
so apparently we are not mature enough yet… still playing with kids toys… mind games… please read my long post satyadeva, as a person with lots of experience in groups… i have something to share… : )
Aha, SD synchronicity is at play.
Certainly is, Lokesh.
DR, let’s take this following statement of yours, ‘an intelligent individual hearing this will simply look at himself and see if he is trusting, loving, accepting himself or not eh – if not a simple awareness is enough for him or her to change his attitude isnt it ?’
No it is not. An intelligent individual will realize and admit that he is not aware about everything going on in his/her personal world. We all inhabit an inner world and, just like the outer world, we occassionally enter areas that are unhealthy and not good for us. If we continually return to such areas therapy can help. Simple awareness is too simplistic an approach to deal with an attitude that has been in place possibly for decades, or who knows even lifetimes, because an attitude is something that dwells in the unconscious and being unconscious this means that there is no real awareness that an attitude exists. Therapy can awaken one to the fact that you have an attitude problem, make you aware of an attitude. Remember, in this life an attitude is brought in to being by having a fixed idea about the way something or other is. Over time this way of seeing things becomes automatic and slips into the realm of the unconscious. It is foolish to believe that you can simply be aware of the minds mulifarious activities, for in our daily life only 10% of your psychic activity is noted by personal awareness. I believe, especially in the complicated times we live in with so much happening on a sensory level, nature in her wisdom created us to live and survive like that. I know from my own experience in tapping into the unconscious and group unconscious that it can be overwhelming. Terrifying even. During the early evolution of our species it is highly possible that a more rapidly evolving group lived in a psychic dimension where they were tuned into the realms of both the conscious and unconscious worlds simulataneously. Lesser evolved groups were thus easily to manipulate due to their living entirely in the unconscious. The smart ones could project all manner of things into these peoples minds…where do you think the spinx and elephant.headed dieties came from? I suspect these chimera were created by the ubermensch in order to get the monkey gang to build palaces and temples for them. The monkeys, of couse being a higly superstitious troop, thought it was god talking to them.(that particular tradition is apparently flourishing on SN9
You go to sleep each night and probably recall parts of dreams that you had. That in itself is strong evidence for the power of the unconsciousness. You probably dream that you are a simple man, but you are not. Like all human beings you are complicated
Meanwhile the eternal self sits behind it all, watching, watching as it has always done long before the countless disolution of universes past present and future.
yes lokesh – and your eternal watcher is enough –
no need to wallow around the unconscious mind attempting to figure out this or that experience or emotion from the past – the past is endless and you can waste your whole life trying to deal with this – and meanwhile every day more stuff is accumulating in the unconscious to look at – a never ending task to deal with it all
the easy way is to simply find a way to jump out of all this mind into no mind – and all of these so called problems of the mind simply disappear without any effort
rather than stirring the pot of mind simply ignore it – leave the stew as it is – be the watcher – the consciousness – the witness –
and it doesnt cost anything !! – perfect for a scotchman eh ha ha ha ha
Once again, Dhyan Raj, you over-simplify things for many people who are just beginning – who appear to constitute most of your potential, er, ‘market’ (or, shall we say, ‘target group’?!).
And also for many others.
Neglect their needs at your peril – or rather, at theirs.
well satyadeva – i dont see any need to overcomplicate things – life is simple –
anyway dont be worried – we will be offering all therapies groups free or at minimal charge in our new commune for those who wish to enjoy
And have you considered who will be the therapists? And whether they’ll be paid? If not, how will you attract top practitioners?
Or is this so low on your list of priorities that you don’t give it much attention?
DR declares, ‘the easy way is to simply find a way to jump out of all this mind into no mind’-
If it’s that easy why don’t you go ahead and do it.? I say that because it is obvious to me that you might be talking the talk but you are certainly not walking the walk along the pathless path.
and lo – loko lokesh the zealot standeth forth and accuseth the holy dhyanraj of falsehood and knavery
and lo – the holy dhyanraj respondeth and sayeth –
thy accusasation is baseless and thy ignorance boundless – what doth thou knowest about the holiness of another ?
- is thy brief time as mortal here on earth to be spent uselessly condemning those who hath foundeth truth ?
begone foul fiend and denigrator of osho – thy condemnations willst reboundeth on thyself and thou willst be doomed to liveth a long and benighted life wallowing in the pits of the mind, and holiness will be lost to thee -
and when the time cometh for thou to leaveth this life thou wilt repent with wailing and gnashing of teeth – what haveth i done with my life? – it hath been a wastage and useless casting down of those who kneweth and hath foundeth truth and loveth me -
forgiveth me and helpe me osho !
and it willst be too late !!!
Dhyan Raj:
and lo – loko lokesh the zealot standeth forth and accuseth the holy dhyanraj of falsehood and knavery
and lo – the holy dhyanraj respondeth and sayeth –
thy accusasation is baseless and thy ignorance boundless – what doth thou knowest about the holiness of another ?
- is thy brief time as mortal here on earth to be spent uselessly condemning those who hath foundeth truth ?
SD:
Ah, so now we have it: Dhyan Raj has ‘found truth’.
And what might that mean – in his case – one wonders…?
As there’s no supporting evidence so far, none whatsoever.
Parmartha says:
>> A good therapy can also help as a great support during such stages of “growth”, cos it usually insists on working with people who are not medicated, or certainly not on anti psychotic medication.
I wonder how Anti-Depressants fit into all this? Since I’ve been away from the sannyas scene the use of ADs has increased a lot. At my place of work I’d say 15%-20% (both men and women) are on the stuff. Some of them for over 5 years. Having studied them, I find them ‘flat’ (and a bit cruel), although you couldn’t tell they are on the stuff if they didn’t disclose. Is there any point in them meditating at all? If anyone can supply any info I would be grateful.
vartan,
I assume you`re meaning Prozac etc?
anyone who has been on that stuff for 5 years straight needs to do something about it.
this is the official opinion of the medical profession,,although they do very little to actually implement it,prefering to just hand out the sweeties(nothing new there)
the official line is that it is not addictive.
well,people don’t like stopping it,thats for sure!
can anyone with a serious addiction/dependence on any substance meditate?
I don’t know.
personally,my experience is that people who are addicted to substances and also claim to be spiritual have usually got a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock.
as I`ve said before,the line that “I am remaining “conscious” of my smoke/drink/dope habit” is the most sophisticated form of denial yet invented by substance abusers.
More or less it is becoming clear, master surgeon is dead and his tools are in the hands of janitors!
Insurrance is not going to pay for such adevnture!
Out of rationalism, we can downplay Rajneesh, but his people love him, i think this is the reward in itself…
Dear Rajneesh, since I was born my family was left wing, I was in Steiner school and above all I have a child (who has hobbies etc) so I have been all my life involved with “communal work” or voluntary work and organized osho meditations for many years etc. so I know (!) you do NOT get money just asking people to give any. They do NOT. I am actually not interested in your explanations.. I am interested how are you? How is your love life? How is it with your friends? What is wonderful in your life, what is painful (not OIF, something personal on the path…)so pls be not osho-taleban, but someone to talk with..
For my self I can share that I have done all possible groups.. And suffering is vey intensively still there. So it is for my close friends. Sometimes we are laughing about it when new people come and are so romantic how beautiful all the people are and how much their life is going to change for the better…well, of course silence and depth is different too. However, it was fanny when a (non sanyasin) friend told she got pills and therapy from the state to recover from feeling everything too intensively…arghhh that’s what meditation has been taking me…. feeling too much (and unfortunately perhaps not being at my center enough at the same time). Life is not fair.
Great post Fresch.
Experience behind those words.
But no more being stuck in the same muddy pond.
The river flows now. Crazy, then gently and back again and so on.
\(^o\) (/o^)/
Yes arpana,Mud is mud, river is flowing..sharing, that is it..
As i know little bit about Fresch, there is an intensity and freshness in her words,It can be due to meditations, or groups or given by nature and still the cherry on the cake is that she has spend considerable time at Pune, when it was still an Oshofield!
It is like people can develop businesses and earn money any where if they have business traits but having an MBA from Harward or Satnford has its own charm!
Dear Shantam, as they say in Glasgow, ‘if patter wiz watter you’d droon’
Roughly translated this means that if the manner of your speech were water you would drown in it.
fair enough
Yes shantam, shut up! Get out from your imagination.
How about Sanyas News trip to Ibiza in the summer? Do you have festivals? I might not stand only you, but in the bigger crowd it could be fun to sit down for a while….hahhaaa sweeties
so many hugs
During the summer season on Ibiza every day is a festival of celebration in one form or another. Many residents do not enjoy the summer. I love it. August can be very intense. There is a tangible vibe of excitement in the air. Hardly surprising when you have a million people on a small island looking to party hearty. If you enjoy to dance you can so so 24/7. Ibiza does not have the reputation of being the dance capital of the world for nothing.
“and as i have publicly mentioned many many times
my beloved master OSHO saved my life and protected me…”
How come Osho protected Rajneesh life but not of Vivek?
Seems very unjust..
May be there is some esoteric wisdom?
Or may be it is an human tradition to Say Inshah Allah( With the grace of God), when some good happens!
Shantam, baba, don’t you get it?. Swami Rajneesh is really special.
Fresch is asking about sannyasnews trip to Ibiza!
For editors of sannyasnews, it can be a sound business idea, in the line of targeted group tourism!
I would like to create Sannyas singles journeys..but problem is even sannyasin singles are of many kinds. Path of love singles, humanversity singles, risk singles, Single group leaders with sub catagories-Cranisacral singles, rebalancing singles etc…
and add them with Indian singles!
We go every where, choiceless going from Swedan to Switzeralnd, Neuzealand to North pole!
My memory is saying, i have never heard some Indian swami going to Scotland because of residence permit dowry from a Scottish woman.
it gives an hypothesis, Scotland has not that bubbling economy.
People from third world have very good nose for this…
Have someone ever heard, Arunji going to Edinburgh for meditation camp?
It means there are no Nepalis there!
Some of my friends dream of opening a meditation centre in Scotland, an extremely beautiful country with very little in the way of meditation possibilities. Unfortunately my homeland’s climate is something I cannot stand. Eight months of winter-like conditiond and the rain blows in sideways.
अब तुम कह रहे हो कि ‘आपकी कृपा से मेरा तमस शांत हो गया है।’ मेरी कृपा से अगर लोगों का तमस शांत होने लगे तो मैं सारी दुनिया का तमस शांत कर दूं। मेरी कृपा से कुछ भी नहीं होता।
तुम मेरी प्रंशसा मत करो। तुम मेरी प्रशंसा से कुछ भी नहीं पा सकते हो। मुझे धोखा देना असंभव है। मैं किसी तरह की स्तुति में भरोसा नहीं करता। तुम जो यह कह रहे हो-’आपकी कृपा से मेरा तमस शांत हो गया है’-इस कहने में ही तमस मौजूद है, अंधेरा मौजूद है।
Now you are saying, “With your blessings my dark primitive mind has become peaceful”
If because of my blessings, people get free from their darkness(Tamas; primitive mind), i would be glad to do it for the whole world. Nothing happens due to my blessings.
Don’t try to praise me. By prasing me, you won’t get anything. it is impossible to deceive me. I don’t believe in any kind of SATUTI(Praise, glory, invocation, worship).
What you are saying that because of my grace darkness has disappeared, shows the presence of TAMAS, presence of darkness.
Rough translation of an Osho excerpt.
‘it is impossible to deceive me’ That is not what he said when the shit hit the fan in Oregon.
correct.
it’s never clear if people speak out of experience or out of their knowledge…
i want to share something about western therapy… and eastern expansion methods… and i say share because is something that grew inside, an understanding from being a “long” time sannyasin, and having being also a client, a therapist and a groupie…
therapy has something nasty from the very beggining, but it’s barely noticeable when you are hearing how good you will feel afterwards… this promess to make you free… free of your conditioning… free of the repressed emotions… by going through your darkness and getting confronted with your defense mechanisms, issues, traumas and desires… it’s a just wonderful play… many things start changing… you begin feeling lighter… but again you feel those “repressed” emotions coming back… and then you do another group, not knowing where to go next…
some sannyasins would only meditate… i would laugh at them and think, oh silly, they should be doing therapy… and i’ve seen this attitude in a few people who are doing groups… feeling holier than thou oh regular sannyasin… and let me just say, just because you spend more money it doesn’t mean you are sanner or closer to heaven…
many of the close disciples of osho i met were usually “high ranked” therapists… most of them were nice, loving people… but not one of them claimed to be enlightened…
and so… i had a career to make in osho therapy and went to every group possible… translating, helping, or attending… i was there, watching, learning, feeling, catharting, working on myself… haha… it never ended…
many years afterwards, i was feeling so lost, haha, after going through everything imaginable… life was a sad thing for me… full of knowledge, an expert in solving issues, but full of issues… suffering…
and one day life put a beloved living master on my path…
and my life started changing, amazingly, deeply, lovingly…
his method was… just love…
i remember osho saying that love is the real therapy, or something sweet like that…. i know now the truth of those words… the pure truth in those words…
love, the energetic field of love, happiness, bliss, enjoying, celebrating, being open, remaining exposed, vulnerable… breaking apart, laughing… crying… out of love and gratitude…
that transforms you…
you wouldn’t believe how much i changed… and the changes keep growing like wild roses in my inner garden… haha…
i have loved sannyasins… both therapists and non-therapists are beautiful… so the real issue it’s beyond people… it’s the concept of therapy itself what’s wrong… therapy is fake… is the phony sister of meditation… hahaha… sadly…
therapy couldn’t make me independent of therapy itself… only love made me find my own source of love… effortlessly, deeply…
i think sannyasins believe therapy can cause some real change or truthful insights… but, aren’t insights just of the mind? isn’t consciousness an experience with no content? or is the mirror just reflecting? and do we have to get involved with what is reflected?
love is far beyond therapy… actually therapy cannot be called therapy… is something so shallow in value that it is given just out of compassion when the mind of the other is too closed to love or celebrate…
active meditations are too, beyond therapy… and i’m grateful that every group had mandatory dynamic and kundalini… my sweet lord… those were important moments of the day… the depth… the sweetness… the opening… the silence… the communion… haha… active meditations… that’s true therapy…
as shantam says: “More or less it is becoming clear, master surgeon is dead and his tools are in the hands of janitors!
Insurrance is not going to pay for such adevnture!”
and love knows what it knows… you’d know that gentleman… it knows simplicity is far deeper a transformative tool than complexity… love knows… that dancing is love, and celebrating is love, and prayer is love…
going through your issues is running away from all love and getting involved with the shadows of the mind…
i have a little quote by the beloved master…
“This happens here to many people every day. So many people come to me.
They say, “We want to become therapists, we want to become healers, we want to become this and that…” Seeing that the therapists are important people, healers are important people, they are doing something extraordinary, everybody that comes here sooner or later starts thinking that he has to become a therapist or a healer.
This is not creativity. This is just finding a way, a means, for the fulfillment of the ego.
And if the ego is there, you cannot be a real therapist. Real therapists are rare.
A real therapist is one who is ready to let God work through him — and that is the definition of a real healer. Therapy means healing. A healer is not a healer; a healer is just a passage for God’s healing forces to flow through.
So if you move towards healing with the idea that “I have to become a healer, then I will be somebody important, doing great miracles around,” you will never be a healer. How can you be a healer? Because the very condition of being a healer is dropping the ego.
It is very rare to find a healer, very rare to find a therapist. I am training my therapists, my healers, here. The whole training is that they should disappear. They should not be there, they should become absent. And through the absence of the ego, some presence, some unknown presence, starts working through you. That brings miracles to life. That is a real phenomenon, not a created, believed-in thing.”
therapists believe methods can change people, but it’s never the method… is the energy of a buddha, call it silence, presence, love, buddhafield… that’s the magic and the real therapy osho speaks about…
and it works… it stays with you… like a silent blessing flying around you… that love stays around and grows… and you stop caring about your issues… and you become childlike, and starting enjoying, having fun, celebrating, and yes, thankfully, you stop suffering with the mind’s tricks…
is not an understanding, it’s an unlearning, it is, i swear… you just need to forget what you think you know and feel… you don’t need to know anything… your heart, your silence knows… it has nothing to do with therapy and getting to know any conditioning… or anything that moves in front of the mirror of consciousness…
but again, it’s just my experience, and under the premise of comparing therapy with the inner workings of a master…
i think therapriests need to find god first… then they’ll know how to share his grace beyond all methods… beyond knowing and beyond ego… and if they have found god, let them say it… they SHOULD declare it… nobody declares their enlightenment… and the ones that do are tested against the prejudice of the sannyasin community…
this is a funny sangha… but it has a possible happy ending… as the gate to a new humanity… yes osho , yes!
Lovely post, Anand, good to read of such a transformation.
I have no real argument with you here, the problem is not that all therapies are a useless waste of time and energy, it’s that people tend to get ‘hooked’ on therapy and go on way past the point that it’s of any real value. It seems no one has stressed the importance of knowing when to stop.
That, plus, as you say, the inflated status of therapy and its practitioners.
You say, “i think therapriests need to find god first… then they’ll know how to share his grace beyond all methods… beyond knowing and beyond ego…” – yes, well, wouldn’t that be nice, the stuff of a romantically ideal world…but meanwhile, who’d do their work?!!
Still, it remains true that some therapeutic work is, in the first instance, highly desirable for many – and an absolute ‘must’ for some – so let’s keep a balanced view, without either inflating or degrading its importance.
Going into the details of your experience, Anand, is such a refreshing contrast to Dhyan Raj’s refusal to reveal anything other than a most general outline of his own. And he’s supposed to be (or at least is taking on the role, it would seem) Swami R’s main pr man’!
DR, you’d advance your cause a whole lot more by similar self-revelation. (But you won’t, will you, especially as I’ve just suggested it to you? If so, how childish…What are you afraid of?).
I ask you again:
What have you “found”?
ive found a couple of ITs posting in sannyas news – one an ex sannyasin lokesh who despises osho and his people and the other – well – what can i say about you satyadeva – i love you really – especially since i discovered you duckness
That’s right, DR, avoid tricky issues by silly attempts at abuse.
Now, please tell everyone:
What exactly have you “found” (apart from ‘hope’), eh?
ITs?
I think it must mean ‘Interesting Teachers’, Lokesh.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha – thats right satyadeva – interesting teachers in the art of ignorant tossing
Such a touchy old tart, aren’t you, eh, Rajee?!
satyadeva says:
I think it must mean ‘Interesting Teachers’, Lokesh.
Interesting is an interesting word. Interesting how?
When somebody says something is interesting I take it that they are not totally engaged with whatever or whoever it is.
yes, nobody stresses the importance of stopping… or going further with a master… this i find to be the most interesting point ’till now… why wouldn’t therapists invite people to go with an enlightened master after some time of therapy? why they don’t emphasize meditation over therapy?
haha, yes, sounds like a romantic ideal to have them realize god before working because that’s asking therapists to be enlightened first… but i’m thinking only then they would be really therapists, healers…
also, therapeutic work was very useful when i began doing it, i was up to my head in emotions and couldn’t manage being something else than a tedious paranoid victim of life… therapy (emotional release) unburden me a lot… but again, dynamic also does that trick (active meditations for the hectic western mind)…
i’m with you satyadeva, a balanced view on therapy is a must… so after so many years of therapists and sannyasins inflating it… we should degrade it a bit to its proper place, take it off the list of “spiritual practices”… and realize that “sannyasin therapist” is an oxymoron…
anand says:
>> so after so many years of therapists and sannyasins inflating it… we should degrade it a bit to its proper place, take it off the list of “spiritual practices”… and realize that “sannyasin therapist” is an oxymoron…
I disagree. Just because ‘some’ sannyasin therapists got on their high horses we don’t have to throw out the baby with the water. I met some some incredible people in the sannyas therapy community, people who went on to work in the industry under excruciating conditions. Only in sannyas can the therapist be your friend, or a lover even.
Anand, in another post you mention the possibility that all the therapies and meditations might have been just games … Osho often called it a spiritual circus. What it wasn’t … it wasn’t boring. And that is the real therapy.
People find it difficult to be happy for long periods of time without self-sabotaging their own happiness. Therapy will show the meditator what areas to contemplate upon but on the final rung the meditative attitude will have to taken out of the meditation room and into the street.
Nice post, Anand. Reminded me of when I used to work as an individual therapist in Poona One (I just had to find out what it was like and I did) Some days I had people coming to me for therapy sessions and they just blew me away with how beautiful they were and I thought to myself, I’m supposed to help this person, man, its the other way round. I was tagged as a natural healer and believed for some time that I’d found my vocation in life. Life had other plans. The winds of change blasted me at hurricane force and that wonderful time in my life drew to a close. Such is life. No regrets.
No regrets means u have wasted yr whole life in illusion. OMG …. people like u r therapist in pune ….. hahahaha … thank god , i known reality of dumbo therapists here.
Ho…hum.
Wonder if groups weren’t like games. Just a way, primarily, or in part, to keep all those people busy, all of us busy, if we weren’t working for the ashram, break the ice for all us up tight Britishers etc.
Sannyas, Osho, meditation in various ways, journal keeping has reduced my expectations of myself and others by about 90% and rising; or my idea of perfection has expanded so enormously I don’t break my balls in the way I did.
Great post.
Thanks.
Thank you Anand. Interesting post.
Not all therapy is negative.
Even if I were to pull two basic subjects from the basket of therapy … one, ‘disclosure’ (the old confession) and two, just giving somebody’s issues ‘full attention’ (damn, they are paying for it) … these two alone can have huge therapeutic influence, in the early stages of the path. Not all therapy is wrong. But its aim has to be to point towards meditation and not be and end in itself. And the aim of meditation should be to channel towards a spiritual attitude (or the bar, whichever is closer) otherwise it is all a waste of time.
yes vartan, i agree completely…
what stayed after the groups was a certain quality of having been able to show myself openly… it would usually close quickly and last only for some days… i can say that’s therapeutic and deep… the exposure of your vulnerability… that being there showing “my self” to everyone and viceversa was only important in terms of opening the defenses and letting the other see me as “i was”… the content is not really important… though they never emphasize this… therapists are cheeky, they are happy when you come back, instead of hitting you in the head for not growing up in your meditation… but that’s ok, because they’re actually not teaching you about meditation… they are showing you “this is how you meditate, first, you buy the dynamic cd”… and they hope you’ll figure it out on your own, haha…
it’s amazing how things appear in such a variety of perspectives… yes, vartan, not all therapy is wrong… or no therapy is wrong… as is not wrong to play with legos… just don’t try to make a building with them…
“But its aim has to be to point towards meditation and not be and end in itself. And the aim of meditation should be to channel towards a spiritual attitude (or the bar, whichever is closer) otherwise it is all a waste of time.”
exactly… the bar is also good, haha… it has to change your life deeply to become a part of it, to develop an attitude of meditation… and one group, or training, some sessions, cannot change your life deeply… they change it, sure, but not deeply… how can i assure that the change is superficial?… well… people keep on going and going to groups… and sessions…
that’s why i go back to emphasize love, or silence, or freedom… the learning of those qualities is more similar to a transfer of energy than following a set of rules, guidelines and how-to’s… you “learn” them by feeling them, by being in contact with sources of energy that vibrate in that frequency… haha… what i mean is, therapists are usually not that loving, or silent, or content… and there we could start talking about the pricing of therapy, but… i should finish this subject of the usefulness of therapy…
exposing is good, and giving full attention (love) to that vulnerability… yes, it’s a good kickstart… then they should send their clients to a guru to continue on their paths… but again… they don’t, they want to keep them near and dear… and expect them to believe they need to keep doing therapy for years… they are cheeky i tell you…
osho says -
“These idiots have been creating new fashions in psychology, in psychoanalysis, therapies — and earning millions of dollars, and cheating people. It is not enlightenment. And if this is enlightenment then there is no need to be enlightened. It is perfectly good to go to the toilet… forget all about enlightenment.
The East has never bothered about the mind, has not even taken any note of it, has ignored it.
From Patanjali to Gautam Buddha, to Shankara, to Ramakrishna, to J. Krishnamurti —
the whole tradition does not bother about the mind.
The mind is mentioned only for one purpose: how to transcend it.
Hundreds of methods have been found which can help you to transcend the mind, and once you are beyond the mind all its problems look as if they are somebody else’s problems. You attain to a state of a watcher on the hills, and all the problems are in the valleys.
And they don’t have any impact on you; you have gone beyond them.
The West has remained utterly mind centered. In the West the only thing they have thought about is matter and mind. And matter is the reality and mind is only a by-product; beyond mind there is nothing.
In the East matter is illusory, mind is a by-product of all your illusions, projections, dreams. Your reality is beyond matter and mind, both.
………..these therapists do not believe that there is anything beyond mind, that there is anything more than the body. You are confined in a prison of physiology, chemistry, biology and you cannot be free from them just by meditating.
……….Meditation simply ignores mind. It bypasses mind; it reaches beyond mind, and once it is beyond mind it has a far superior power
……… If you really want to change, it (therapy) is of no use. If you only want to pretend that you are changing, then it is of much use. If you only want to play around with the game of change, then it is of much use. Then you can go on unearthing your dreams, desires, associations, and you can go into many many kinds of therapies — and now there are many available in the world. In fact life is too short to finish all the therapies…
……….If you become tired of individual therapies then you can go to group therapies. But this is just playing the game of transformation. You are not really into it, it is a facade.
Osho,
From Death to Deathlessness
Chapter #32
Chapter title: Silence is the highest music
6 September 1985 am in Rajneeshmandir
Text from Swami Rajneesh book : Yo Gotta’ Groove In !
beware of these people !
beware of people who tell you what is wrong with you
beware of people who tell you that you need to change
that you need to learn something
that you need to work hard to improve yourself
that you need to add and learn something
to become an enlightened being
somebody has some secret knowledge to give to you…
charging you three thousand to five thousand dollars for therapies and groups
be careful of such people…they are your enemies !
they are putting you down …
they are telling you that you are not enough unto yourself
you understand the meaning of therapy ?
they say…you need therapy
you need improvement
you are not good enough unto yourself
learn this…learn that…
this is the way to truth
i have no message to sell but this silent inner understanding…
and it does not need a group
it does not need any deconditioning work
it does not need any family constellation work
it does not need any this…or any that…
therapists are showing you what is missing in you
i am here to show you what you have
and nothing is missing in you… that is the difference
they will continuously show you this chakra is blocked…
you are blocked here …you are blocked there…
because it is their business to show you your blocks…
these are your problems…
these are your constellations
these are your family issues
these are your rebirthing issues
these are your chakras that are blocked
they do not even know their own chakras
and they can see all your blocked chakras ? great people !
they are always showing you your miseries…
and not showing you that you are enough unto yourself
and the moment you are enough unto yourself
which i state you are… you do not need these therapies
and you are free from these therapists
therapists and teachers are always there to point out your mistakes
their job is to find all the mistakes in you
these are teachers and dictators who are trying to put you down
they say…these are your mistakes…become better
these are your negative points…find a way out of it
i tell you…not a single person has any mistake
these are your ideas given to you by others who do not like you…
they have an interest in showing you your mistakes
they have an interest in showing you what is wrong in you
the mystic has no interest
t his only interest is to make you fly and be free
you can ask the light where is the darkness ?
wherever the light will go there is simply light…
find the light within you !
few dark corners are fun
because what you will do the whole day ? too much light !
you will have to look for some dark corners
do not label yourself
do not judge yourself
do not be your own enemy
this is why buddhas say accept yourself totally
understand your inner being with a deep inner trust
see the beauty in you…
there is nothing else !
i am saying this because i have not found anything negative
neither in myself neither in anybody
they have not learned the knack
how to transform energies that are sleeping
and how to awaken your whole potential
that is the art of transformation…
not labelling and trying to change it
there is a vast difference and a great implication
that is why i am against the therapists and group leaders and psychoanalysts
their whole business is invested in finding your faults…
poor little person !
life is so short !
you have no time to live and breathe
and look at these people who are finding your faults…
they are more miserable than you are !
never allow anybody to dictate anything to you
do not allow anybody to pull you down
find people who lift you higher and higher and higher
do not accept judgments from anybody
they do not know themselves…how they can know you ?
and those who have known themselves
have only seen the beauty…
utter beauty in human beings
See my reply to Anand, above.
Swami Rajneesh, what this approach seems to wilfully overlook is the extent to which people attracted to ‘spiritual growth’ very often tend to come with a higher-than-normal amount of dysfunctional emotional baggage, which is the very first impediment to their ‘progress’.
In some cases, sure, just meditation, especially those of Osho, might help, but my experience (ie of myself and many others) tells me that most need to work on their body/mind, especially their emotional patterns first, or at least in tandem with meditation, to attain an acceptable degree of what might be termed ‘healthy functionality’. As long as they know when to stop, rather than becoming ‘addicted’ to such ‘treatment’.
Another highly relevant point is that Osho meditations – not to mention proximity to a spiritual teacher – can tend to bring hitherto repressed or ‘managed’ neuroses to the surface, which can often need further therapeutic attention, either in a group setting or via one-to-one therapy.
I trust you, Swami Rajneesh, take this on board, as it would seem to be pretty essential information for the sort of work you are up to. As I said, I’m surprised, to put it mildly, that you are apparently unaware of such factors, or choose to relegate them to ‘unimportant’.
If just being around Osho wasn’t enough for many people, why do you imagine just being around you would be any different?
didnt you read what osho had to say about therapy satyadeva – the quotes i posted from him are very clear – and yet you try to say that therapy is essential in contradiction to osho – if you know better what is right than osho – how is he your master ? – for you he is ignorant and you are the wise one isnt it?
- just like a therapist !
I strongly suggest you re-read what I wrote, Dhyan Raj, as you’re clearly misinterpreting it in order to suit yourself, ie your convenient concept of me as some “ignorant tosser”.
That’s the result of being too emotionally biased, it undermines one’s intelligence, as it’s clearly doing to yours, going by such evidence.
So calm down, have a proper look and see exactly what I’m saying, ok?
okay satyadeva – sorry sir
Yes, fine, thanks, DR.
(Remember your punctuation though, there’s a good boy! Can’t be having a School Captain who misses out his question marks, can we, eh?!).
please sir satyadeva sir – i did my homework again – here it is sir -
osho says -
“If you really want to change, it (therapy) is of no use. If you only want to pretend that you are changing, then it is of much use. If you only want to play around with the game of change, then it is of much use. Then you can go on unearthing your dreams, desires, associations, and you can go into many many kinds of therapies ”
satyadeva says –
“most need to work on their body/mind, especially their emotional patterns first, or at least in tandem with meditation, to attain an acceptable degree of what might be termed ‘healthy functionality’”
osho says -
“Hundreds of methods have been found which can help you to transcend the mind, and once you are beyond the mind all its problems look as if they are somebody else’s problems. You attain to a state of a watcher on the hills, and all the problems are in the valleys.
And they don’t have any impact on you; you have gone beyond them.
………”Meditation simply ignores mind. It bypasses mind; it reaches beyond mind, and once it is beyond mind it has a far superior power”
satyadeva says -
“Osho meditations – not to mention proximity to a spiritual teacher – can tend to bring hitherto repressed or ‘managed’ neuroses to the surface, which can often need further therapeutic attention, either in a group setting or via one-to-one therapy.”
sir sir satyadeva sir! – arent you contradicting your master osho sir ?
Certainly not, boy!
In the first paragraph you quote above, Osho is warning against ‘addiction’ to therapy and indicating its limitations. Where have I indicated any differently?
Furthermore, despite what might be ‘ideally’ desirable, many people, especially newcomers, simply lack the capacity to ‘jump straight into ‘no-mind’ – and stay there – which is the whole idea, isn’t it?
This didn’t happen on a mass scale, even for sannyasin ‘veterans’ of many years, when Osho was alive, so why should it happen now that he’s gone?
And, as I say in the last paragraph you quote above, meditation and being around a spiritual teacher is not by any means necessarily all ‘hunky dory’, it’s not guaranteed to be ‘a smooth ride’, not at all – especially for the more ‘damaged’ ‘seekers’ (of whom there are usually significant numbers). They and others might well need further help to integrate whatever arises.
You appear to ignore such realities, preferring to find refuge in some ‘ideal’, some approach that fits with how you like to see things, something you’ve learned, it would appear, from Swami Rajneesh.
Finally, of course, one has to ask if these therapies were so utterly misplaced, so fundamentally useless, how come Osho made a major effort to make them available in his ashram? And never put an end to them?
Plenty to get on with there, lad…Now, off you go and do some homework!
And take those bloody pseudo-spiritual blinkers off!
satyadeva says :
// And have you considered who will be the therapists? And whether they’ll be paid? If not, how will you attract top practitioners?
Or is this so low on your list of priorities that you don’t give it much attention? //
seems it is important that these top therapists get paid ?? that seems to be a crucial equation here !!!
well i have received over 20 – 25 offers of leading and well known top OSHO therapists who are willing to come to our commune and offer their experience and therapies for free already !!!
they are also fed up of the resort management…and many are now moving towards my way of offering free…
remember OSHO therapists in the resort have to work for free !!! the resort gets the money…not the therapist !!!
i have always maintained…
that therapies have some value for the beginner students
as a basic initial introduction…
but they are serving more as informative entertainment…
the real path is actually in experimenting deeply
with an energetic method…
core meditations like dynamic or kundalini…
and then living these silent states
in a meditative way…
living each gesture each movement each act meditatively
ofcourse i will be offering all OSHO groups and therapies
in the new commune..as i have been always…
i see it as an informative toy to entertain and engage those who cannot move directly into the unfamiliar territory of meditation…towards the states of no mind…
i will be offering these therapies for free…
as i do not see any real ” monetary ” value in them…
just playful fun and games…
i do not understand why people are so offended
that i am offering all groups and therapies for free ??!!!
does it hurt those who are making a business out of therapies ??
is money the real reason ??
do the elite therapists feel their status is lowered ??
well…well…time for them to look into their own issues…
Swami Rajneesh:
ofcourse i will be offering all OSHO groups and therapies
in the new commune..as i have been always…
i see it as an informative toy to entertain and engage those who cannot move directly into the unfamiliar territory of meditation…towards the states of no mind…
SD:
By using a rather pejorative description: “an informative toy to entertain and engage…”, you reveal a certain ignorance, unfortunately, about how life-changing and even life-saving good, appropriate therapy at the right time can be. You see, I know this to be the case, from my own experience, whereas you do not.
But this is perhaps only to be expected. After all, let’s face it, you’re an Indian, who is pretty well culturally predisposed not to value it or know much about it at all.
And, as I’ve clearly stated here, several times, I’m not a ‘therapy freak’, it should be kept in perspective, in its place. But I strongly suspect you’re not really that interested, it’s something of a ‘necessary evil’ for you, not really your concern – the nursery, definitely not the school, and most certainly not the university…
But I think you tend to downgrade its role and if that’s the case you are likely not to serve the best interests of a significant number of people who come to you.
GandhooLokka is most frustrated egoistic cuckoo ….. wasted precious years of life and now singing anti OSHO songs…. get well soon … ALL THE BEST.
if you read and analyse some messages of GandhooLokka …its clear that he has totally missed life and fun is , he is trying to justify his life here. Totally egoistic and perverted person …. in the sannyas temple ..LOL!!! always gives … compulsive obsessive reactions.
Oh it is that shining light of consciousness, SCIFI. 21 and he has it all figured out. Ah, to be young and floating in bliss far above the churning sea of compulsive obsessive reactions. (whatever that is) But hold on…let’s take a few notes here…an ancient echo comes to my ear…by Jove I hear cousin Bobby’s voice…what’s that he sang…the words come clearer….
‘Once upon a time you dressed so fine
You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn’t you?
People’d call, say, “Beware doll, you’re bound to fall”
You thought they were all kiddin’ you.’
Aye, lad, it’s a long way to the top if you wanna rock n roll and you are still lost in the foothills.
we must ignore frustrted gandooLokka. heyyy Lokkka why r u wasting yr time ??? and energy…. Lokka himself is totally changed and deformed while trying to give obsessive compulsive reactions to everyone. Lokka has wasted whole life cleaning toilets and now trying to justify by promoting Ibiza Travel Ltd. u r looking total stupid n poor joker… ALL THE BEST. It seems like first u have wasted life in INDIA and now u will waste here by giving reactions to everyone….hahahahaha …NJOyyyy … fun fun fun
SCIFI, surely you have misinformed SN readers by accidently writing your age as 21 instead of 12. Does mummy know about you writing on SN, or is she too busy preparing your coco-pops? Run along now, it’s time to change your nappies, although I must say that you are a big boy now and should have grown out of them years ago.
we are all wondering why an ex sannyasin who left osho 32 years ago is commentng here in sannyas news today – when all he talks is shit on osho and his sannyasins
just now we found out lokesh spent his time around osho therapising others – and has spent the rest of his life therapising osho from a safe distance – a continuous fault finder and denigrator of our master and his people lokesh finds his kicks in putting others down
Dhyan Raj:
we are all wondering…
SD:
Speak for yourself, DR.
‘WE are ALL wondering?
DR, that is a highly unlikely scenario you are trying to create, simply because most of the commenters here on SN have far better things to wonder about.
‘finds his kicks in putting others down’
That sounds like a good description of yourself. Just read your comment again, DR. Come on now, admit it, doesn’t exactly make you appear too bright now does it? Here’s you talking about love and acceptance and doing Osho’s work and what you are coming up with is something an angry street hooker might have said after being ripped off by a customer who’d just sodomized her with a dead cat.
ha ha ha ha ha ha does the truth irritate you lokesh ?
Silly little monk- there’s one ‘ha’ missing! How many times must I tell you, there are SEVEN bloody chakras, no more, no less!
I’ve a good mind to report you to the Abbot….
Dhyanraj, have you ever enjoyed wild sex? I kind of doubt it. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if your sexual experiences were limited to a furry glove. Which means…well I’m sure you get what I’m driving at, because it’s pretty simple.
swami satyam dhyanraj says:
>> we are all wondering why an ex sannyasin who left osho 32 years ago is commentng here in sannyas news today – when all he talks is shit on osho and his sannyasins
I wouldn’t worry about it. In my recent wonderings I’ve come across a few of these 9th bull old souls and they are all the same. Peas of a pod. Mind you, a couple of years back I was the same. I thought that Osho chap was old hut … maybe he is … ask me again in a few months.
Marxists revolutionize access to spiritual power, understanding and psychology.
All temporal authority now freely available and devolved to the masses.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Brilliant, Martyn, never seen that before!
(Btw, which one are you?!)
the one in the white robe…
Thought so somehow…
If you can’t beat them .. join them….
https://www.google.ch/search?q=vissarion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls
FOR :
Vegan , Happy Clappy Community in ruritania.
AGAINST :
Replicant Jesus, Happy Clappy Community in ruritania. Belief in Alien spaceships ,divine authority complete with mimicky white robe,
female subserviance to male roles. Family life and rules.High malarial zone and infection rates. No local services.
……
Visitor Points out of 10 …… MINUS 10 squillion billion million.
Next week . Can a holiday in Los Locos, Mexicoco be value for no money…our SN travel correspondent freely gives free opinion from a well known almost built megamillion dream democratic, pluralist, spiritual centre guided by a single guru who contrastingly speaks for and against himself from revolving ,swivel, and recliner/decliner chair.
and free giveaway CD….
Music from the world of El Loco including ….the 007 remix.. The Spies who love Me, sung by Lordy GaGa
and our latest Sannyas News readers sacred dancing video….
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where did you dig up this old video of me and roxana martyn ?- i hadnt known is was made public ! how embarrassing !
ive still got the hat
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150540162199614&set=a.474739459613.260216.770044613&type=3&theater
That’s a great idea… working for the Mexico Tourist Industry….I can see it now….
‘Hi my name’s SDR and I’m your tour guide and host for your two week vaca….
hey wait, no come back… we have a special Addams Family weekend where I act out all the parts…
… come back….. ayy mi vida..
Losers….. Tosseristas !
go on then martyn – share one photo of you – show us the winner in the game of life – you must be looking good – why hide it ?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/6440_1198304634716_2109725_n.jpg
my answer to you is on my website of oshopirates.wordpress.com
… as SN doesn’t do full frontals …(yet)….
so that photo of a sign on a door is you? – thats not much of an answer is it – i was hoping for your winning face so i could look into your eyes
er , no the photo of me is now above here, and the verbal reply, for what it’s worth is in my new posts section on OP..with same pikkky of me..
…
(that hanging door sign is copyable …should you ever need it…)
oivei, enough already…
Yes, sounds very beautiful Anand. However, all osho therapists and training have similar stories. And they are always “the only ones to do it that way”… when in love there is always just this one way, isn’t it?Love working through, not ego etc. or osho’s energy. You must be in the honeymoon with your current master and training.. ooh, it*s a niece feeling. It get’s better if you fall in love with somebody who is also involved in it. Sharing the same path. What I have noticed the very good guidance is that you actually fall in love with some person and can share that, was it meditation, therapy or some creative jobs. It just seems to increase everything around it. I remember lokesh saying about all emotional love going to the guru if people are mediating or being celibate. I could actually agree with it. Or I still need to let it sink, but it’s interesting, very interesting. So, if any of us would like to benefit the most, going towards love (not marriage)– in real life – is the path. Lovely to hear new posts.
Being born in the family where my parent though Soviet Union was the paradise land I definitely have continued that tradition; looking for a better world (or illusion). I just read 2 books, one about Russian woman first living in the Soviet Union and then coming out from the dream. The other one was about North Korean woman escaping… so, I am a bit tired being osho-taleban my self. I really love meditation, self-enquiry, osho and sanyas..but easy is good. Love is good, especially if it’s grounded; loving my child, friends, dog or a lover. Then maybe more.
You never get what exactly u expect united only get what u check
I went off to Direct-Osho-line Insurance today, you know the ones with that iconic beep beep red rolls royce car in the ads.
Anyway they gave me a free lifetime quote for my house, bicycle, investments, lost keys, lost opportunities, lost growth, damage to my ego, damage due to passionate spiritual fire or flood of emotions, replacing all my old lost insights with completely new ones …..spoke to a very helpful client manager named Roxpana: He gave me a quote,.. well lots of them really and asked if I wanted to receive any hunky junky mails in or up my letterbox.
I said its only a small one and I didn’t think so, but the quote was really good….from someone I admire and love listening to…
I’m not homosexual, I’m not hetrosexual, I’m just sexual.
Michael Stipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w9Oz8DssIE
pm, you forgot to get a quote for lost mind … go back and
pm, you forgot to get a quote for lost mind … go back and
pm, you forgot to get a quote for lost mind … go back and
Is it possible to reach happiness by quoting it..?
Our top SN cultural scientist investigates …
Here’s a simple test…see if it works for you
Love me , love my guru. …( Anon, Annals of Tinnitus, Greece 8th century BC )
Wow, you say it martyn.. Or is i love my guru, love me.. Or is it love me?
.Fresch….
. Wot ? You want 3 joken fur die preizen of einen… yu zink I’m giving zem avayy fur free ? Yu vont extra yolk , yu put zer coinen in der laffundgigglesprachen-mach-frei machinen von PMW…. Parmartheren Machinen Waffelgesprachmeistermaker…
or deese jokes vill be schtaying put right here vhere yu are leeving zem …..to be laughed at …by ze passing bloggers via my links…
linx…
linx… rechts…. linx…
one of the things i don’t like about therapists, priests , psychologists is that they will always tell you you have something missing or something that needs fixing, as if we are robots that need to be fixed and we are not complete when the truth is exactly the opposite. we are complete with bad with good that does not matter the light is stronger than a lil shadow … that is why a master will always tell you you are complete, accept yourself exactly the way you are and all struggle will dissapear..why look for the bad and start fighting with it… bring in the light …
~~
question – what to do with bad things in me…with my bad characteristics… to fight with them or what ?
you have some bad characteristics ?
you want to fight against them ?
who told you to do such a strange thing ?
first you look for the bad…
and then you start fighting with it…
you are giving it so much recognition !
you are saying…
these are my bad characteristics
i must fight them
but they are not even bothered with you
unnecessarily you are paying attention to them
this is not about good and bad
this is not about accumulating the good and fighting the bad
there is no good…there is no bad…
we are discussing vertical awareness
we are transforming energies that you think are bad
you are labeling them bad…they are not bad
transform these uncomforting energies
and take them higher and higher and higher
vertically transform them…energetically
and the mud will become the lotus
it is a vertical transformation of the energetic states
it is not trying to change something that you think is bad in you………..
…….all that you think is bad in you
are your thoughts…your judgments…
that this is bad in me…how to get rid of it…
these are your energies !
the moment you learn to move them upwards
they becomes your friends
just move energy vertically upwards
from the lower to the highest
this is called vertical energetic transformation
mind wants to change things
and say…this is not good…i must fight it
you are fighting a shadow of unawareness !
transform that same state…
energetically vertically upwards…
and it will become part of your flowing energy
whatever you think is bad you give me the names
and i will tell you how to transform it energetically upwards
from the sex center to samadhi
the mud becomes the lotus
but without the mud there is no lotus
all these so called negative energies in you…
are creating a pulsation…a wave for the positive
it is creating friction…it creates fire
you have to learn to use both sides of you
negative and positive
and there is no such thing as fighting your energies
understand them…
be grateful for them to be present in you
and you can learn how to transform them…
to be your friends…
everything within you can be transformed
every part of you can be transformed
what you think is negative today
is your friend hiding
the moment you learn the art of meditativeness
all you think is negative becomes positive
everything comes to your support
you will just have to learn a simple knack
vertical transformation
energetically
you have no enemies within you
existence has given you only friends and support structures
whatsoever is in you
try to understand it and accept it as it is
do not reject any part of you
do not try to cut it…to fight it or throw it out…
are you beginning to understand what i am saying ?
change is horizontal
energetic vertical transformation…
is simply raising the frequency of energy upwards
anything you watch…will become fire…will disappear…
anything !
you put anything onto the watchfullness of meditation…
it will disappear into light…
swami rajneesh – zero
and again for satyadeva…
i was asked by one participant for our free OSHO mystic rose group…
who will be the leading therapist offering this free group ??
i laughed…and said…mystic rose is innocence…
laughter for 7 days…
tears for 7 days…
silence for 7 days…
first 7 days a child will lead the group…to create laughter in you…
second 7 days…your mother will lead the group…to create tears in you…
last 7 days…i will lead the group…to toture you into silence !!
ridiculous that one needs an ” experienced leading therapist ” for mystic rose…
they will destroy the very beauty of the process…they know too much…
just any playful fresh open hearted being…is perfect !!!
mystic rose is a deep mystical process…a shower in innocence…
become a child again…and regain innocence…the mystic rose !!!
You may well be right here, although if you mention this to help build a case demonstrating the relative unimportance of qualified, experienced practitioners then you’re being more than a little disingenuous.
And the second stage should obviously be led by appropriately qualified people (and I don’t just mean paper qualifications), considering the likely profound vulnerability of many participants. This process wouldn’t be appropriate for all, I trust you’d agree?
By the way, it’s largely a therapeutic process, preparing the space for meditation, like all worthwhile therapies. Osho’s formal meditations fulfil a similar ‘therapeutic’ role, do they not?
In other words, properly managed, there’s little absolute distinction between such therapies and meditation, they complement each other perfectly.
It’s all a matter of balance, but I feel there’s a danger that in your general, rather ‘trivialising’ attitude towards therapy – which is, after all, another word for self-inquiry – you might be expecting far more people to be able to run before they can walk properly.
Dear Swami Rajneesh, please don’t forget to invite your PR man, Dhyanraj. I guess mystic roses need plenty of compost to grow in just like evreyday garden variety roses and seeing as how DR is full of it he’ll be doing something useful for a change. PR work is something he is definitely not cut out for. While you’re at it please try and find a girlfriend for him, or failing that a boyfriend. Perhaps you could invite Sheela along…the perfect match. They could talk about no-mind and that there is no need for therapy in their lives and pretty soon they would realise that they share a lot in common and then…well you can guess the rest, candles, incense, moonlight, salmonella in the wine. What I’m trying to say is that the poor guy needs some TLC urgently, not to mention the matter of losing his virginity before he pops his sandals. Just trying to help. Lets hope he doesn’t catch a mystic dose in the process.
just for you lokesh !! ha ha ha haha ha ha
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200588489330764&set=t.770044613&type=1&theater
Remember to separate the ‘ha’s, lad, the chakras don’t like being squeezed together, you should know that by now. You know, all that whatever-it’s-called you’ve “found” and all that…
Credit for getting all seven this time though.
(Nice link, btw).
I suspect it is not laughter DR is trying to convey but rather a stutter. Speach impediments are no laughing matter.
DR, the link says….The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
Anyway, I am not into porn unless I am participating.
Best part of being guru is that one has disciples..
The more guru says, i am not a guru but your friend, more it will create glue in disciple’s heart..no no no you are the real one..
Disciples have all the right to search for the new master, in case old master pops up. Show must go on..
No need for the disciple to live like old days widow. Widow marriage is accepted even in India..
I really feel envious with people, who are not in this guru-disciple games. May be this is the reason, i love to live in the west. Here, i can hide my fetish of being spiritual among the normal people..
Normal people! I’ve been searching for them on SN and the only ones I can find are SCIFI, Atikarmo, Swami Rajneesh and of course Dhyanraj….everyone else is totally weird.
are you trying to be nice again Lokesh?
shantam prem says:
>> Here, i can hide my fetish of being spiritual among the normal people..
How does one go about being spiritual? And you’ve got it wrong anyway, you are meant to be a spiritual terrorist. You forgot the terrorist part. You are supposed to be blowing away their prejudices with your lingam and not lighting candles or however you are currently expressing your spirituality.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22551125
bloody hell.. he’s nicking his ideas now… they’re all at it…
Pope Francis has called on world leaders to end the “cult of money” and to do more for the poor, in his first major speech on the financial crisis. Yet the Vatican’s own wealth reveals estimates of $10 to $15 billions. Yes, Martyn.it would seem that the Pope is tuned into Osho’s perspective that life is fundamentally paradoxical.
Nice photos Dhyanraj.
You are getting the reward of being Sardar Gurudyal Singh of Swami Rajneesh!
when intelligent spiritual seekers are living in their smugness, Church leaders with their limited knowledge and bleeding heart try to stand for the collective humanity..
If i have a choice to chose between a sannyasin/Advaitist or a Christian for any responsible position for any institution of the world, my vote will be for the later.
shantam prem says:
>> If i have a choice to chose between a sannyasin/Advaitist or a Christian for any responsible position for any institution of the world, my vote will be for the later.
I want to argue with you but I can’t. (sad face)
It there anybody here, who can state:
“I don’t need any fucking therapy, I stand alone and I will walk on my own without any crutches, and my Master only will guide me.”
I am the one. Who else?
So what are you trying to prove, Bhakta? See my post below.
Bhakta, I’ve looked into it and have come to the shocking conclussion that there is, in fact, nobody here.
It is better this site remains open and NOT closed through legal action.
Those who have made posts about what should and should not be published here need to know that.
They always have the option of posting anything they want on their own sites, and thereby taking responsibility for themselves.