The interviewer says: “She is an intriguing personality, a very unusual life – a life that may seem like a bundle of contradictions, so it was a privilege to interact with her and find her more real than her life sounds. Hear her answer my doubts and my curiosities:”
1.Tell us something about your upbringing before you met Bhagwan, what did you study, where did you grow up.
I had a wonderful family life. I was loved by everyone in the family as I was the last born. My parents spoiled me with their love but also my brothers and sisters did the same. This bond of love that our parents gave us as an inheritance we enjoy it still today.
My father was an ideologue. My mother was forgiving and loving beautiful woman. She was the sunflowerof our family. Father wanted us to learn. Learn new things in life. From our young age he took interest in reading with us different authors. I remember at the age of five-six sitting on my father’s lap with my other brothers and sisters around listening to my father reading us Khalil Gibran. I did not understand anything at the time but the feeling I remember today too how beautiful it was to be together with the family.
At an early age our father sent us abroad for education one by one. He was often criticized by relatives that he was not interested in getting us married in tradition and that he had given us much freedom. All my basic values come from my mother and father. He never missed an opportunity to introduce us to great minds of India in person and through literature. My father personally took me to Bhagwan.
I was a student in M S University in Baroda majoring linguistic. From there I went to studied Fine Arts in Montclair State in New Jersey. My major was ceramics. After that I was with Bhagwan. Bhagwan is where my true education began.
2.Why did you choose to write the book now and not 10-20 years back. Did you need that time distance to be more objective about the whole situation?
The original book was written in 1996 in German. The translation in English took time. I had started a new life after my time in prison. New existence had required much time, energy and hard work. The priorities of life had not allowed the attention on the translation. It happened that in 2010 one sannyasin came to me and said she would like to translate the book in English. I allowed her to do it and till we found Prakash Books and the production time took another two years.
Yes, you are right one requires time to digest such profound experience of life with a man like Bhagwan. I had that time in prison.
3.Given the maligning campaigns about you by the commune, do you think readers are going to believe your story? How has the response been to this memoir so far?
Very good question. An important one. I wrote this book not to persuade any one to see from my point of view or believe my story. I just wrote what was my experience. I wrote this book for my father. It was his wish that I express myself with this valuable experience with Bhagwan. He felt my life can guide many people in their conflicts of life.
So far response from intellectual readers is very positive and appreciative. From Bhagwan’s sannyasins the response is angry and ugly may be it does not agree with their maligning campaigns. It exposes them.
4.You portray the commune or the Ashram being run as any other business venture? What did you think about it then and what do you think about it now?
The commune was an effective, well run business. It was successful. It is a good form of social and economical way to live life. Today to I live and work in a communal setting. My communal homes are doing very well and are also successful.
5.To me your story re-iterates that a woman in love can go to any extent for the man she loves, irrespective of the fact if the man deserves that kind of reverence or not. Looking back do you think whatever you did – all rights and wrongs, were out of your sheer love for Bhagwan.
I used to feel and also verbalize often that as long as Bhagwan is behind me I can move mountains. The love and trust I felt gave different kind of energy and sense in me that there were no limits to achievemnts. Weather the one you love deserves or not was not the issue. The love one feels was that mattered. Yes, what I felt was absolute love. Even today I feel the same quality of love. That love made the difference in life. It is that love motivates and inspires. It is that love which gives meaning to life. It is that same love gave the strength to walk away at the right time too.
6.Do you think it is justified for some people to live on the charity of others and that too a charity that has been extracted in the name of providing spirituality.
No one has right to exploit others. When gifts and presents become demand and burden then it is a point when one has to look deep inside. The desire for spirituality and becoming the number one spiritual then one is ready to offer the charity. This is an age old problem. The churches had sold heavenly accommodations for the greedy of good life after death. Spirituality runs in the same road. Before we blame others I think we need to look at our own greed.
7.His last identity was Osho, but you seem to not like that name, or may be not associate that name with him. Your comments.
I knew Bhagwan. Bhagwan I can relate to. I did not know Osho. Osho is a stranger for me.
8.I found the end of the book a bit abrupt, you suddenly say Do Not Kill him without really saying Why? Would you like to elaborate that?
You may be right. When I wrote this book, during the day I did my nursing and household work for my nursing home. I took care of my parents and animals and at late night I wrote the book. I guess at the end I was simply tired. During this time I had heard many annoying stories about Poona Ashram and how the publicity material they offered from the ashram did not include Bhagwan’s time in Oregon. It felt as if they were amputating Bhagwan by not including His full story in their representation. Of course what I had heard from the doctor who had written the death certificate of Bhagwan’s death without seeing Bhagwan’s dead body etc. made me sad.
9.Given a choice would you lead your life the same way, if not what would you like to change?
Yes, without a doubt. It has been an adventure. If I would change anything then it would be I would not take so long to decide to leave the commune as I did.
10.If there is one learning that Bhagwan left this world with – what would that be according to you?
Love, Laughter, Life and Acceptance. LLLA. I live my life accordingly even today.
11.Looking back, what is your biggest learning in life, specially in the context of relationship between a Guru and the devotee?
Keep your focus on learning and not on your greed to be a spiritual. Do not give up your own integrity. Love and respect fully but also remember your own values.
>> I wrote this book for my father.
Still looking for acceptance?
>> It is that same love gave the strength to walk away at the right time too.
No dear. The right time would have been when you looked down and found yourself holding poisons. Or shall we say, a week before.
>> If I would change anything then it would be I would not take so long to decide to leave the commune as I did.
There we go.
I forgave Sheela a long time ago because I don’t think I could have done better or worse, in the circumstances.
don’t kill him, just maim!
-Bestwisher
I`m going to mix up ideas from this thread with the last one.
reading through the first part of this interview,where sheela describes her early life,one has the impression that this kind of account : “all brothers and sisters loved me,father was good,mother was loving” is typical of anyone not exposed to what maybe some would call “therapy” thinking.
to put it another way.if you have an idea of your upbringing as being a story containing any more nuanced subtleties of feeling and plot than “I had a wonderful family life..”(I wont bring in osho`s claim that she was raped by a family friend at 15),then you may well have been exposed to what you might see as therapy-type thinking.
this mysterious word “therapy” represents a variety of practices that many here seem to vehemently believe is useful to or harmful to “enlightenment”.
well,my idea is this.
shouting “fuck you, you stiff upper lip English bastard” or
“you put them yids in the ovens didn’t you you f…ing squarehead kraut”etc etc
to try to unburden ourselves in preparation for the real task of meditation,
may be some of our fond memories of “therapy”.
however, there might be more to it than that.
freud and jung and the rest onwards borrowed heavily and were inspired by,and contributed to what was basically a canon that consisted of
what I might call “the exposition of wisdom of a human rather than religious or superstitious nature”.
which pretty much starts with the renaissance and lives through the works of authors,philosophers,poets and badass boys and girls who,as I say,started to call on a wisdom that was “human” rather than having to grovel to the old white beard in the sky.
they ditched his aggressively marketed superstitious mumbo-jumbo,and they embarked on what became formalised as “doing your own thing”
sheelas thinking seems quaint and old-fashioned,like the thinking of other religious types who dismiss “therapy” out of hand.
is sheela one of the “easterners who knows that therapy is not necessary for enlightenment” as some self-styled gurus here say?
and how easy is it for a 21st century person to believe that a serial poisoner and convicted attempted murderess had an ideal family life,with nothing but love showed her?
to live without wisdom about the/my/your human condition and its motivations?
I would call that ignore-ance.
Good post, Frank,
i suppose sheela’s book will be of interest to some historians –
“Keep your focus on learning and not on your greed to be a spiritual. Do not give up your own integrity. Love and respect fully but also remember your own values.”
she doesnt seem to have understood osho though saying this is what she learned from him but what else to expect – osho said she didnt have a meditative bone in her body
i saw a video of her current “commune homes” business – care homes for mentally handicapped people – she’s the boss there and i suppose they are lucky to have someone like sheela look after them and make sure they have a bed and food in a communal house
Even from a distance I knew that Sheela had lost the plot. I’ve watched the movie, Bhagwan, His Secratary and His Bodyguard, three times and that confirmed to me that she is seriously damaged goods. Delusional and living in denial doesn’t quite cover it. Her illusions run deep, best summed-up from the following quote from above: ‘He felt my life can guide many people in their conflicts of life.’ Unbelievable, yet there is no doubt that her business acumen is well honed.
Sheela’s story has been dissected and examined by the sannyas community for thity years now and at this juncture, taking into consideration some of the recent posts on SN, there is something I’d like to say that I deem relevant.
Whatever way you look at it Sheela seems genuine in her belief that she was doing Osho’s work. When people complained about what Sheela was doing Osho replied in front of media cameras that she was not doing enough. (remember he claimed to be someone you could not decieve, although he pled ignorant of what was going on behind the scenes when the shit hit the fan…one could conclude that he was very human when it came to survival) Sheela sat to his left blushing like the proverbial bride as he spoke. The tradition of misguided people, who believe themselves to be doing Osho’s work, continues.
Today we have third-rate imposters claiming to be doing Osho’s work. Fanatics jumping on the bandwagon of preserving Osho’s legacy.
Zealots fighting a crusade to overthrow the people running the resort because it is a business, something which it has been since I first arrived there in 1974, although I never experienced the need to change it in any way.
So where do we go from here? I looked for an appropriate Osho quote. It might not be the direction for you but it certainly is for me. I’ll maybe run into you on the road less travelled and share a good joke about it all. Insha’allah.
‘It is not decided by votes what is true; otherwise we could never come to any truth, ever. People will vote for what is comfortable — and lies are very comfortable because you don’t have to do anything about them, you just have to believe. Truth needs great effort, discovery, risk, and it needs you to walk alone on a path that nobody has traveled before.’ Osho Amen
sheela was doing osho’s work – its not something she “believed” – osho put her in her position – a tough job to create a commune in a desert for thousands of sannyasins to visit and commune with their master – she wasnt a meditator or a spiritual person – osho knew that – she was an organiser which he needed at that time – she may have made mistakes – but osho told us as i remember that 90% of what she did was for the good
rajneesh who you again condemn here does not need your vote on truth does he, Lokesh?
there is no problem – you can go your way in peace – no one is interfering in your freedom – but continually running down osho and his disciples as you do seems to be unecessary for you to discover your own way of truth – what is the point in it ?
‘she may have made mistakes’ That’s got to be the cup winner in SN’s understatement of the year competition.
Amongst other things, Sheela ordered some brainwashed idiots to go out and poison over 200 innocent men women and children in order to win a local election. Children! Dhyanraj, try and imagine how you would feel if someone belonging to a religious cult arrived in your neighbourhood and poisoned your family, friends and children. I know it is difficult for you but just think about it. Once you have, if you have even a little common sense, which I sometimes doubt, you would not just sit there and say, ‘oh, she may have made a mistake’. And if you did I’d place you in the same pigeonhole as the supporters of those Nazi monsters who gassed millions of people to death, but somehow thought it was okay because they were just following orders.
the nazis killed millions – sheela is reputed to have given 200 people bellyache with salmonella – and killed no one –
it suits the american government agencies to hype this up as a bioterrorist attack on america -all part of the campaign to justify the bogus “war on terrorism” which has been the excuse for real invasion of other countries and mass murder, and for the removal of all civil liberty and to control ordinary people worldwide
your comparison lokesh to nazis is a support to the nazis operating today to enslave humanity, and another nail that you hammer into osho’s coffin – that please god don’t let osho get out of the coffin and walk amongst us yet again !!!
I find it hard to swallow, Dhyan Raj, that you’re some sort of apologist for Sheela. Have you not understood that she and her ‘gang’ also plotted murder, eg the attempted murder of Amrito?
By so radically downplaying her nefarious activities it’s pretty clear that you’re simply trying to ensure that Osho himself escapes censure for having selected her in the first place. In other words, to keep up your precious belief that a ‘buddha’ can do no wrong, can never make a mistake, is ‘infallible’.
I’d be amazed if you don’t hold a similar belief about Swami Rajneesh.
In both cases, you’d be a damn fool.
oh – making up my views for me again arent you sataydeva – ha ha ha ha – you are very good at that
“your precious belief that a ‘buddha’ can do no wrong, can never make a mistake, is ‘infallible’.”
well well well !- so thats what i believe is it ? – ha ha ha ha ha ha – thats great satyadeva – make up my “belief” then call me a fool for it – ha ha haha ha
and you say – “radically down playing sheelas actions ” – no satyadeva –
simply stating that giving 200 people bellyache is not of the same order as killing millions of people in gas chambers as loko lokesh said
Fair enough, I see your point there, DR – although I’d like you to clarify, please, whether in fact you believe a ‘buddha’ is ‘infallible’ ie can never, almost by definition, make a mistake.
Also, I suggest you attend to how you write as often you’ve tended to invite what you term ‘wilful misinterpretation’ of your views.
More importantly, of course, you’re lapsing back into failing to complete the required number of ‘ha’s per sequence. It’s SEVEN, no more, no less. Get it right next time, ok?
And I’m not too sure your last paragraph holds up that well, especially as you have avoided responding to my point about Sheela conspiring to murder at the Ranch (not to mention running off with a vast amount of other people’s money, of course).
The truth is that Sheela became a fascistic tyrant in her own, admittedly small world (certainly compared to the Nazi empire), exhibiting psychotic symptoms similar to those of any power-mad dictator:
Authoritarian, undemocratic rule, local community election-rigging, total belief in the ‘rightness’ of her cause, poisoning, murder plots, secret surveillance, paranoia, large-scale theft from ‘her people’ (not to mention considerable self-medication).
And she was the one chosen to ‘do Osho’s work’? He got that appointment wrong, did he not?
The fourth question:
BELOVED MASTER,
ARE YOU FALLIBLE?
Nityam, I am not the pope of the Vatican — I am not infallible. I enjoy fallibility. And Buddha was not infallible and Jesus was not infallible. Only these stupid popes, they started claiming to be infallible, because they wanted to dominate, they wanted to exploit people. I have no desire to dominate anybody, I have no desire to exploit anybody. I have no desire at all.
Fallibility is natural; infallibility is unnatural. Even God has committed so many errors! The first error he committed was to create the universe; that was the beginning of the whole mess. But he did it and he continues to do it; he has not stopped. He created the Devil; if anybody is responsible for the Devil’s existence, then God is responsible — he created him. He created all kinds of sins in you, all kinds of instincts in you. If anybody is responsible, if anybody is punishable, then God is.
Whenever you meet God you can simply throw the whole load on him. You can simply say, “Why did
you create me in this way? You should have created me a saint and you created me a sinner. It is up to you. If you are the creator, then it is your responsibility.” If something is wrong in the painting, the painter is responsible not the painting. If something is wrong in the music, then the musician is responsible, not the musical instruments. If something goes wrong in the poetry, the poet is responsible.
God is very fallible, that’s the beauty; otherwise, God would be too inhuman a concept. It is very human, and in the East we even have ideas of God which are far more human — far more human than the Christian God. The Jewish God is far more human than the Christian God — the Jewish God becomes angry. The Christian God is always love, always sweet, very saccharin. The Jewish God can be very bitter. The Old Testament says that God is very jealous and very angry. Be watchful. A very human God. And if you come to the East you will be surprised. We have a beautiful story: God created the world because he was feeling lonely. Such a beautiful idea, God feeling lonely! So you need not feel too worried sometimes if you feel lonely — it is divine. God was feeling very lonely, hence he created the world — just to fill his loneliness. And when he created the first woman he fell in love with her. That is really going too far!
The people who wrote this story must have been really courageous people. That is falling in love with your own daughter. And of course, as women are supposed to do, the woman started the game of hide-and-seek. They love that game very much. They still love it, and they will always love it; that is part of feminine psychology. The man takes the initiative and the woman starts hiding; and the more she hides, the more the man becomes enchanted.
That’s why Eastern women look more beautiful than Western women: for the simple reason that the Western woman has forgotten how to hide; she has become available. She is trying to be just like the man. The Eastern woman is not trying to be like the man; she tries to be absolutely feminine — very shy, never takes any initiative. No Eastern woman ever will say to somebody, “I love you.” She simply waits for you to say it to her.
So the woman started hiding. She became a cow just to hide from God. But how can you hide from
God? He is omniscient. He looked around and he saw that the woman had become a cow, so he became the bull! Now that is going too far! And that’s how the whole of creation happened: she became the mare and he became the horse, and so on, so forth. She went on hiding in new forms, and he went on finding her again and again. This seems to be something very close to the truth.
Even God is fallible. There is no need to be perfect.
These two words have to be understood as deeply as possible: one is perfection, the other is totality. My emphasis is never on perfection but on totality. The old religions have been teaching you for centuries to be perfect. You cannot be perfect; nobody can be perfect. Even God is not perfect — because to be perfect means to be dead. If something is perfect then there is no evolution possible anymore. Perfection means the full point has come, the cul-de-sac; the road ends. Now you are stuck, nowhere to go. You cannot come back — because how can a perfect person come back? That will be becoming imperfect again. You cannot go ahead because you have become perfect; there is nothing ahead. Existence is imperfect and will remain so.
I don’t teach perfection. Perfection simply creates neurosis in people. Perfectionists are neurotics; they drive themselves crazy in trying to be perfect, because they are trying to do the impossible. I teach totality; I teach wholeness, not perfection. Be total in whatsoever you are doing. Be total. If you are angry, then be totally angry. If you are in love, then be totally in love. If you are sad, then be totally sad. Don’t be half hearted in anything. That is a totally different approach towards life. The perfectionist will say, “Never be angry, never be sad.” The person who believes in totality will say, “Whatsoever is the case, just be total in it. Don’t be half hearted, don’t hold yourself back. Go into it totally.”
Then life becomes really a tremendous adventure. Then even sadness is beautiful when it is total. If you can cry and weep totally, then even crying and weeping has a beauty of its own. It will refresh you, it will rejuvenate you, it will unburden you. If you can be totally sad you will come to know something immensely beautiful in sadness which no joy can ever give to you, because sadness has depth; joy is shallow. A person who has not known total sadness has missed a great experience of life. And total anger also has its own beauty. It will give you the experience of boiling at one hundred degrees, of intensity, of passion, of fire, of becoming aflame. And the miracle is: the person who can be totally angry can be totally compassionate too, because anger will teach him compassion. And sadness will teach him ways of being blissful.
My approach is not that of a perfectionist; I am utterly against it. It has destroyed humanity. It has driven the whole of humanity into a kind of madness. The whole idea has to be dropped. We have to learn a new language — the language of wholeness. And I call a person holy when he is whole in whatsoever he does.
If you are doing cleaning, then do it totally. Then be utterly lost in it, and it will give you as much as a musician gets when he gets lost totally in his music or a dancer gets when he is utterly lost into his dance. Even cleaning the floor or cooking the food or taking the bath or going for a morning walk — anything. Let this be your foundation of life: that whatsoever you are doing at the moment, be utterly lost into it.
Nothing of you should be left behind. Don’t keep any reservations. And you will come out of it immensel ybenefited, enriched.
I am as fallible as anybody with only one difference: I am totally fallible!
Moses and Jesus were sitting together in a boat reminiscing.
“I really liked the one where you parted the water of the Red Sea, Moses,” said Jesus.
“Ah, yes,” said Moses, “but that was nothing compared to your walking on the water — that beats all. Say, do you think you could do it again?”
“Sure,” said Jesus, “but it has been a long time.”
He stepped out of the boat. Everything was fine, so he started walking slowly. Soon he noticed the water was coming up over the top of his feet. He was a little concerned, but kept walking. Soon the water was up to his ankles. He turned back towards the boat, worried. By the time he reached the boat again the water was up to his knees. He scrambled back in, relieved but puzzled.
“I don’t understand,” Jesus said, “I know it has been a long time, but I really thought I had it down. I wonder what went wrong.”
Moses was thoughtful too. Finally he said, “I bet I know what it is! The first time you did it you did not have holes in your feet!”
Osho
The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol. 8
Chapter #11
Chapter title: The psychology of egolessness
31 December 1979 am in Buddha Hall
well satyadeva – to make it clear to you as you have asked – no – i dont believe osho was infallible or unable to make mistakes
as for sheela – i was not intimately involved with her – i worked on the ranch for some months and was at the yearly festivals in those days – there were a lot of ins and outs involved with osho’s experiment to create a buddhafield of energy – i dont really feel qualified to pass judgement about this or that action taken by sheela or osho on the way – or to know when sheela was against osho or simply acting as his agent
looking from 30 years later it seems osho made many mistakes doesnt it ? after all he was an ordinary man – buddhas are ordinary men not gods as some (usually their enemies) proclaim them to be
and its easy to make mistakes – acting in the moment its impossible to know all the consequences that will arise out of your actions in future – but that is no reason not to act – and i’m happy that osho did act and try his best to help us move into the vertical dimension with his play in life
Ok, DR, that’s fair enough, on the whole.
Except I fail to understand how you can ignore the mountain of incriminating evidence against Sheela. Or why you so choose.
well satyadeva – i am not sitting in a court of judgement or having a duty to investigate and weigh evidence for or against sheela – and i only like to say about what i know myself
Are you sure that the real reason for this stance isn’t an unwillingness to fully confront the hideous nature of Sheela’s crimes, which might then possibly reflect badly upon Osho’s judgment – thus tending to make you feel rather ‘uncomfortable’?
In other words, is it just more convenient for you to not enquire too deeply, to let it remain a sort of ‘blind spot’, as it were?
Especially bearing in mind that she too was a ‘devotee’ of some kind (certainly not a ‘meditator’, as you have said)?
DR declares, ‘i only like to say about what i know myself’.
Very little it would appear.
the inner experience
and the outer material world
are two different matters…
all enlightened people are blind and gullible…
their trust and total acceptance of each person creates blindness…
their blindness is an act of innocence and compassion…
enlightened people are the worst judges of people…they judge everyone as a potential buddha…and trust that the buddha within them will finally be awakened…
This image of the totally open, innocent, trusting, all-loving, all-compassionate heart of the enlightened is beautiful and no doubt true, but I’m not at all sure it’s the case that “all enlightened people are blind and gullible”. That seems untrue, a rather ‘romanticised’ statement which, among other things, can sort of ‘let them off the hook’, as it were, providing an excuse for poor judgment based on lack of psychological insight.
Despite practical mistakes he made, eg in appointing Sheela, in my experience I don’t think Osho was “blind” to people’s inner mentality when meeting them in darshan, for example, and neither was another enlightened man I spent a lot of time with. Very far from it, in fact, one of the reasons he was so impressive. Then how about Gurdjieff? Was he as naive as you suggest? Of course he wasn’t.
I’m sure there must be plenty of other examples. And thank God there are, as do we really want our spiritually evolved teachers to be psychologically inept?
I think you must be referring to other eastern Masters, Swami Rajneesh, who might tend to be rather naive in a way, especially regarding westerners.
That’s why solid life experience out in the ‘cut and thrust’ everyday world is of great value to any future spiritual teacher, who as a result will not be nearly so “blind and gullible” as one who has spent most of his adult life in more sheltered circumstances, eg in ashrams or the Himalayas.
Master, ” What is the greatest Courage?”
Disciple, ” The courage to walk alone.”
Master, ” Great. Now go for it”
Disciple bowed down and told to the master, ” I will sms my wife immediately. We are leaving the ashram and going our way.”
There are people all around, who think they have the right number for the unseen and unheard esoteric lock and others are just gropping in darkness.
It seems in the end, we just want to prove our self right.
Not bad..not illegal!
shantam prem says:
>> ” The courage to walk alone.”
Said the man who was never alone but always surrounded by … us. He went out of his way to look for us and then wore us like a blanket. Alone my a … sssssssssss
first you put words into osho’s mouth and then condemn him for them as a hypocrite vartan –
i for one am very happy that osho went out of his way to look for me – and that i had the blessing to hang around in his buddhafield all those years – soaking up and riding on that huge wave of energy –
the lack of gratitude from some sannyasins and continual blaming of osho for the fact that they could not understand him and could not lose themselves into the vibration of the buddha – well – i often wonder why buddhas bother to try and help us out of our misery when people behave like this.
perhaps this is a contributing reason to why osho died so young at the age of only 59, when really he could have lived till now
sheela says “what I had heard from the doctor who had written the death certificate of Bhagwan’s death without seeing Bhagwan’s dead body etc. made me sad”
i wonder what she heard – does anyone know ?
‘Ere, Lokesh, are you calling me Swami R’s “disasterous (sic) PR man”?
Maybe you’re right…!
SD, you aren’t that hard up for a job, are you?
bodhi vartan says:
17 May, 2013 at 7:14 am
shantam prem says:
>> ” The courage to walk alone.”
Where i have said this stupid thing?
Vartan, if in the clinic, cleaner touches the left over skin and flesh of Anglina Jolie’s breasts, can he still boast of making love with her..
For God sake, when you cut some words from a complete story, do it in a way that the act does not kill the essence!
shantam prem says:
>> For God sake, when you cut some words from a complete story, do it in a way that the act does not kill the essence!
Yeah I know. I am sorry, but there is too much talk about the walking alone lark and we all know where they got it from … I just wanted to make the point of not always listening to what he said but also seeing what he did.
Sheela is my masteress , how dare you insult all that she did for Osho ,us, herself ..etc etc etc…
she poured her love , and brought understanding etc etc etc etc
anything else in the news today… oh yeah war pestilence famine grief…nothing we can make sense of there either….
lokesh is an ex sannyasin who left osho 32 years ago – since then he has wasted his life condemning osho at every opportunity and running down any who still love osho and support his work –
this is again demonstrated in his long post near the beginning of this thread where he implies that osho was a only a liar and states that those who continue his work today are third rate imposters, fanatics and zealots
that lokesh claims to be unconscious of what he is doing says a lot about him doesnt it?
and saying i am a nazi is the cheap strategy isnt it ? ha ha ha haha haha hahaahhhhh – ha ha ha haha ah
swami satyam dhyanraj says:
>> lokesh is an ex sannyasin who left osho 32 years ago – since then he has wasted his life condemning osho at every opportunity and running down any who still love osho and support his work –
He is doing Osho’s work in a splendid manner. If you don’t have enemies nobody knows you these days. Basically, he cannot be indifferent to Osho. (Watch him wiggle out of that one.)
BV, cousin Bobby wrote this one for you.
Wiggle till you’re high wiggle till you’re higher
Wiggle till you vomit fire
Wiggle till it whispers wiggle till it hums
Wiggle till it answers wiggle till it comes.
for what i see and learn with Vartan better run and bow down to Lokesh, people.. but if you read lokesh´s comments i guess you´ll change your mind, so rotten, i think they don´t belong to SN… doesn´t he have something more interesting to do in life instead of being participating in something that he left 32 years ago?
Chinmayo, have you ever heard the expression, ‘lighten up’?
No? I thought not.
The final question of a much better interview would be:
Sheela, the FBI found that Osho’s room was bugged after you left the Ranch, and also some of Osho’s household. (In common with many places on the Ranch, including some public telephone boxes!).
Why would you do that? You can hedge your bets with other things that happened (though no-one including yourself) has produced any meaningful evidence – about other crimes you committed as being what you felt Osho had or would have approved…. but how is this consistent about a crime against your Master?
parmartha – the title of your article is “dont kill him” – and almost all comments relating to this topic have been deleted – point the finger at sheela and divert attention eh – sheela didnt kill osho i think you will agree on that
The words “Dont Kill him” are Sheela’s title of her book. odd title as she did her best to undermine her master and when thwarted made specific attacks on his household, including bugging Osho’s own room.
This string was supposed to be a discussion about the Sheela period, and possible explanations of it. Also the clear proven crimes of Sheela and her gang that happened in “our name”, and how they arose.
The Editors here (which are three – not just Parmartha), have always had a policy of trying to get contributors to stick to the topic.
If contributors have other topics they are always welcome to put them to the editorial board. If there are topics that are close to the hearts of contributors, then clearly they are best putting them on their own websites, where they can risk the sort of things that have happened to Sannyasnews in the past when litigious posts were accepted. Including the site being taken down, etc, which is a gross inconvenience, and often needs weeks getting the site back up in some form or other.
Vartan says about lokesh – “He is doing Osho’s work in a splendid manner. If you don’t have enemies nobody knows you these days.” It´s important to be known if you have an intelligent message to give to the world, it needs to be spread.. it´s not of any advantage to the people to hear what an old frustrated man that has nothing to do has to say.
Dhyanraj, your stutter is getting worse by the day.
Please forgive me Dhyanraj, I respect your point of view & your deep love & devotion for Osho. But I just don’t see Lokesh “condemning osho at every opportunity and running down any who still love osho and support his work –”
As a matter of fact, my opinion is that Lokesh loves & admires Osho with all his being. He just chooses to express, rather than internalize what he sees as negative aspects of the world of Osho. That is my interpretation of his comments here on sannyasnews.
My feeling is that Dhyanraj & Lokesh have points of views that are completely opposite but nevertheless complementary. Neither are right or wrong, but essential pieces of the Osho vision/dream!
I would like to thank all the commenters on sannyasnews for sharing their points of views & stories of the Osho experiences. I am more rich & my point of view is more broad because of your words!
Namaste
Frank,
My own take on psychology and its pre-eminence is that it occurred as a necessity for managing mechanisms of industrialization’s effects.
Just as Marx was needed to theoretically systematize the external modus operandi of labour and capital, an analysis which spawned the rise of the organized political managing of large systems , via national socialism, social democracy, communism and in turn helped capital to become tolerable by way of platitudes to the mass. So then, psychology was the internal mirror of that social mass theory that was needed to provide a virtual emotive theoretical framework for an individual to make sense of their role under the formally organised and disorganised units of self in the modern world.
Like the attempts of architecture to inform our taste of who we are, and the protagonists of the Ubermensch new man via buildings all around the world since the 1930’s. The Empire buildings of New Delhi, The Amazonian city state of Brasilia,The French Parisian area of La Defense….
People also need a version of self that although may not be accurate, can be used as a map ,conversely of the soul, in daily life, as a construct.
Culturally speaking we all have our gods, which is why teasing them apart intellectually makes sense. Shamans in Borneo have different maps of the soul ,and so, Freud or Osho only makes sense through relevance and appropriacy of that constructed cultural territory. Moreover psychology is generally used as adaptive, and the myriad of self help is only there because we need compasses for this new world.
I was just watching bits of the 70’s French cult film Themroc(outdated and boring) the other night , which is in gibberish, and is about a man who can’t take anymore of his stupefying daily life, so he proceeds to take his life and house apart in the face of disapproving and menacing social authority.
Osho, by taking things apart had to make sure the construction part was also credible, and so used all forms of contemporary mood swinging gyroscopes to re-invent the wheel.
In being the survivor himself of a type of nervous breakdown, something which hardly gets a mention in the way to bliss, let alone embraced as welcome, Osho had to piece himself together again for functioning. Ethics has a role in this, however our love and love of an ethical life may well be skewed out of what is both useful and personally achievable or possible for lesser mortals.
Humanist ethics were classically born out of economic and class demands as much as out of pure enquiry. The old world was falling apart and Voltaire, Diderot and Rousseau were championing thought itself as representatives of that new class.Not consciousness as a pure observable function but as a product to use, the ability to think , narrate, inform.
I recently lived in Voltaire’s town just outside Geneva,last year, designed by him where he was forced to live in exile. My girlfriend’s home is a stone’s throw from Rousseau’s home in Geneva. In this part of the world revolutions were born and made and we socially live in our forefather’s shadow sincluding any recent wars, and so why shouldn’t we apply ourselves to evolutionary if not revolutionary approaches as they did in our own ways.
But humanism itself was no guarantee of the brave new world.
Words cannot be , however well intentioned.
The French revolution’s hero Robespierre carried Rousseau’s the Social Contract in his coat pocket, and yet the Jacobins became tyrannically fanatical, albeit given the demands of the time.
What Sheela was, was no different from the zealot constructs of even humanism’s greatest propagandists. Individuals, usually from the aspirant petty bourgeoisie with personal baggage, who had got hold of ideas which could give vent to their unborn, fettered selves. Despite Osho’s insistence on consciousness as the trusting mechanism , either he himself didn’t believe it , (note :it’s a thought and it is allowed) or he tried to shortcut things by constantly employing or attracting morons to do his bidding. Teertha, hugh milne, sheela,were patently contemptible supercilious twats, who got to where they got because of more than a nudge and a wink from Osho himself.
We in our naivete, allowed the suspension of systematic checks and balances to promote our wish for trust to save the day, organisationally speaking.After all you cannot run around suspecting everybody all day long, and still have time to enter your own unblemished self.
So with that, this model for evolutionary jumping,instead on its demise or narrowing took a broad left hand turn to instead enjoy the view, without so much of the hell for leather championing of newmen.
And is so much the better for it, after all unless you truthfully advertise mental breakdowns for sale, then we’re probably the wiser for having done all that without having had one… and be free to choose our very own forms of humanity.
The poor and disposessed get social psychology case workers and endless soaps like East Enders to make sense of their packaged hand me down lives. The aspiring bourgeoisie get internal psychology therapy, self help, a new lexicon of conversational presumptions of meaning, which are then used to make daily social conversations more comprehensible and substantial… added value.
All of it is so we don’t take our houses apart brick by brick and refuse to participate in what is undernourishing troglodytism or cave dwelling anti social limitations of self.
Freud’s nephew Edward Bernays, understood how social psychology would form the modern world through advertising, and he became the US administrations foremost wunderkid in directing policy units and cynical advertising. Freud’s daughter(who never fucked another man and went to dad for pschological help) was herself responsible for drawing up social chemical medicating policy for the war boom independent women , returning to become housebound neurotic housewives in 1950’s america.
Osho was unlikely to have been at the forefront of social analysis,although tightly binding us to already known critiques of daily norms ….but he would have had as much interest in its communal smooth workings as he did in making trouble for the outside world. Our problem lies in using what’s useful without a salvationist subtext grabbing hold of our nuts and rendering the whole plot messianic , and yet being fully emboldened to take on collective mutual projects, beyond the hobby mentality of western religious legacies or the lack of embrace in uniform social policies, via education etc etc.
The social effect of sannyas was just as crucial as its internal biosphere, and the two radically were and are pointers to perhaps our striving for forms beyond the inherited so that we ourselves may leave a kinder more accessible version of self to our own selves, our friends, our offspring. For that reason nothing is wasted and it all goes into the pot. Though it doesn’t mean giving anyone ever again a carte blanche to try to save us from ourselves, although they are welcome to try.
Amen.
well martyn – so many words to say – i dont have a clue who osho was or is – must have been someone like freud or edward bernays – and he was trying to save us from ourselves – ha ha hahahhh aha haa hahah ah
martyn.
therapy as an updated religion
and pacifier of the people?
for sure.
indeed marx(was that groucho or harpo?)
if he was here now, might have said
“therapy is the Prozac of the people”
and so it is.
still,if you dig about,there might be the odd nugget of wisdom in there,
even if its despite rather than because of.
Martyn, fascinating take on things, yet I must admit that in places it was for me a bit of a job to see the forest for the trees.There is no doubt that you have a broad vison, which comes across as a breath of fresh air in the musty fog that has arisen due the overabundance of straiht-jacketed views being expressed here on SN currently. Most inspirational.
So many articles about Sheela at sannyasnews shows one thing, how much Parmartha, the editor in chief of sannyasnews must have invested during those, “This very earth, the lotus Paradise” phase.
Many small investors feel cheated, betrayed and put down, whenever a ponzi scheme fails.
What the leadership do in such situations, turn the blame on the other executives!
Parmartha left the door open and now the jehovah’s wittossers are having a cup of tea and a biscuit in the living room….
I don’t wanna talk to them , Lokesh has asked them if they want a beer, and Frank has declared he’s actually a full time sannyarsesinner..
someone needs to tell them we are religious fanatics of our own and have our own in house , cloth-eared, self assumed manics…. now who could tell them that I wonder….
Parmartha… do you know the latin term
vos captus urina
I offered them a chillum and they didn’t know what it was, so I told them it was ‘holy smoke’.
Actually Osho said and I quote him verbatim here…
” If anyone quotes me , then they are against me and if anyone says they are for me they are actually against me and if anyone is against me then could they give Sheela a call as she thinks she is for me though actually if I was her I’d be against me too , but don’t quote me on that. ooops as I was saying Hello Sheela , love, nice day today, seen any microphones lately , that Pope what a tosser. Okay everyone go in….and stay there until I whistle the all clear.”
Osho as reported by Marmy Swam Pramtum
Thank heavens that Martyn has come up with this famous Osho quote. OIF, OTT and DMT have all tried to make it disappear from the akasick records. At least one noble soul on SN is preserving Osho’s legacy and helping create a long overdue shit in global consciousness.
I won’t blame lokesh or others at all, whether they left Osho 32 years ago or 3 months ago or did not leave at all; why one should judge, as long as one has not stolen something, broken something, destroyed something.
In the preamble of Sannyas, When Osho was young and idealist and living the existantial fire, and also was unknown, as i think, He made it quite clear, sannyas is not like other religions, where there is no exit door. In his sannyas, exit door is there..
It is almost like usual business confidence in the west, Firms have so much trust in their service and products, customers can return any product without any question asked.
An exit door! I knew there had to be one. I’ve been looking for it for over 30 years. Dear Shantam please send directions. Urgent. Over.
According to dhyanraj VERTICAL is In so to get OUT you have to go HORIZONTAL.
What, you mean you have to get into it if you want to get out of it and then are transported by a stretcher? It’s dark in here but I think I see a glimmer of light at the end of a tunnel. More specific directions please.
Ask Swami R. He can channel dead people.
Yes, I heard that. He is definitely channeling a lot of Osho’s words. Does he hiss?
Does he tell jokes?
If yes, can we have some of the good ones?
If no, boo…
The title, “Don’t Kill Him” says something. Who was she talking to? And how many times did she say it?
You know what Sheela? It never crossed my mind.
I don’t know about anyone else but after Vartan’s advice I’ve been trying to connect with that furniture re-arranging and lifestyle channel on my not so smartphone….Though I keep losing the connection and just keep getting a ‘deadbeat ringer’ tone instead.
Ps After I spoke to that nice man from the Jehovah’s Wittosers Times I have to say that I have reviewed my suggestions and any ‘ vos captus urina’ should not be applied even if you wish to save in an emergency anyone else’s legacy , by transfusing identities , urina or especially any insertions of homoehaha-globin as this is against the last minute medical advice of the Lord ,and his messenger Master Batsman Jesus, and its all in the Acts of The Episstles.
( I do find the Sannyas Bugle such a wealth of useful polemic and barely classified information , that I’ve renewed my subscription for another year. Beats looking out of the staring window here at the retirement home at Mrs Sheelas Eagle’s Nest Reich’ s Palace Home for the newly Confused.
P.s Haven’t I seen you somewhere before .Where are my slippers. I never forget a face. …Who ?
Ps I’m thinking of launching my own combined religious magazine.. The WatchMakersTower..(.only being as its Switzerland , famous for cuckoos, clock designers, and Jehovah’s witness fanatics a la Calvin., not for any other spurious reason at all.)
prem martyn says:
>> Beats looking out of the staring window here at the retirement home at Mrs Sheelas Eagle’s Nest Reich’ s Palace Home for the newly Confused.
Your are in Switzerland, Ma Sheela is in Switzerland … are you sure you are not an inpatient of hers? Hmm… it might explain a lot.
>> P.s Haven’t I seen you somewhere before .Where are my slippers. I never forget a face. …Who ?
Hey that’s me, Vartan, from across the hall.
As readers know SN did put some questions to Sheela which she never answered some years ago.
They included whether she or her close associates owned certain actions, like the poisoning of the Dalles, the poisoning of the then Devaraj, the attempt to corruptly get Rajneeshees elected to office by importing homeless people on to the Ranch, and then getting rid of them in mid winter to the streets of American cities, and many others. She has as far as we know never answered those questions.
Perhaps this post from Sannyas News should be put here (as well as at the Meditation and/or Therapy thread)…
“It is better this site remains open and NOT closed through legal action.
Those who have made posts about what should and should not be published here need to know that.
They always have the option of posting anything they want on their own sites, and thereby taking responsibility for themselves.”
here is a link to some important information:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151594861929614&set=o.2212393025&type=1&theater
The final question of a much better interview would be:
Sheela, the FBI found that Osho’s room was bugged after you left the Ranch, and also some of Osho’s household. (In common with many places on the Ranch, including some public telephone boxes!).
Why would you do that? You can hedge your bets with other things that happened (though no-one including yourself) has produced any meaningful evidence – about other crimes you committed as being what you felt Osho had or would have approved…. but how is this consistent about a crime against your Master?
This screengrab of Avalos’ statement says everything I need to know …
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/abraxas/no%209/Avalospage26-_zps64f92623.jpg
Thanks Vartan for that. As you say, just those few words from Avalos are enough.
Isaiah: XLV, 6, 7
“I am the Lord, and there is no one else. I form the light AND create darkness: I make peace, AND create evil, I the Lord do all these things”
Surprised that no one has not interpreted Rajneeshpuram in the context of such mysticism.