ARUN IN ATLANTA
The friends of Osho in the Atlanta area recently held a three day meditation camp. It was a great privilege to have Swami Anand Arun conduct the camp for the nineteen participants. Sw Arun met Osho in 1969 and is one of Osho’s earliest sannyasins. At Osho’s instruction, Sw Arun established the first Osho meditation centre in Nepal in 1974. He is now the Coordinator of Osho Tapoban, an international commune and forest retreat center in Kathmandu, Nepal (www.tapoban.com). Sw Arun has conducted over 300 meditation camps and initiated more than twelve thousand people from 50 countries.
The Atlanta camp was an intense experience with the first meditation of the day beginning at 8:30 am and the camp day ending around 9 pm. During the camp, Sw Arun explained that Osho had experimented with a variety of meditation techniques to discover which methods are most helpful to people living the Western lifestyle. Realizing that Westerners need activity first before being able to quiet the mind, Osho designed what has become known as Osho Dynamic Meditation and Osho Kundalini Meditation. Both of these meditation techniques have several action stages followed by silence and celebration. Sw Arun led Dynamic and Kundalini several times during the camp. In addition, Sw Arun also introduced some lesser known but very powerful meditation techniques suggested by Osho. He explained that the techniques are not meditation but are tools designed to lead one to the silence that is true meditation.
Interspersed between the meditations, Sw Arun told many stories about his personal experiences with Osho – recollections about Osho that only the earliest sannyasins experienced. Hearing these stories allowed the camp participants to see the immensity of Osho’s awareness and compassion and the difficulties that he faced in order to bring more love and celebration to the world.
Sw Arun talked about the need for a disciplined life in order to support meditation saying that without discipline one cannot be truly free. Distilled from Osho’s lectures and satsangs, Sw Arun shared that proper care of the body and mind is a prerequisite for going deep into meditation. He also emphasized the importance of having a regular time to meditate and the value of friends who support a positive and meditative lifestyle.
Besides the meditations, the camp provided ample time for celebration which included dancing, talking together and eating delicious vegetarian food. A highlight of the camp was the opportunity to become an Osho sannyasin. At Osho’s direction, Sw Arun offered satsang and five people were initiated into sannyas. The Atlanta Osho community is very grateful for Sw Arun’s generous sharing with us and we are hopeful he will return to Atlanta in the future.
The friends of Osho welcome guests, usually on Sundays, for either Osho Dynamic Meditation or Osho Kundalini Meditation. The schedule and location for these and other Osho gatherings, as well as pictures taken at the camp, are available at www.oshoatlanta.com.
Yeah, from Russia to America… Swami Arun! Maybe China next!!
All this talk of the need for a disciplined life (4th para.) makes me shudder!
Is this Osho? Never heard Osho say such things.
This confirms my suspicion that what Arun now offers is a kind of yoga approach.
You can be drunk in the gutter and God can still come and visit. In fact God may prefer it there. No need for some kind of regulated life.
This is a far cry from Tantra, and Osho’s modern version of tantra was one of his main and wonderful offerings.
mann, you take things way out of context dude!! You’re just looking for something to criticize and what not! In the East, discipline can mean alot of things outside of its plain dull meaning in the west, in fact theres more than a dozen names for discipline. Obviously Sw. Anand Arun, who doesn’t claim to have Osho’s vast capture of english, has to use what words fit with him. But the explanation isn’t as small as a paragraph, it simply means, you can’t have your lazy ass sitting around, smokin a dubie, drinking some malibu and pretend that meditation is happening!!
and believe me, i’m not saying I don’t drink or haven’t smoked a dubie, or that it makes me a better sannyasin or something for not doing it. The point is: balance, and a good tool for balance is a bit of discipline. And, Osho talks about the differences between discipline and authoritarian principles. The latter comes from external forces, while the former is an internal recognition to change lifestyle for further bliss!!
Self discipline just strengthens the ego. Okay, maybe that is where some people need to go before devesting themselves of the ego. And maybe Arun attracts such people and so he needs to say it.
But nonetheless… no discipline will lead to enlightenment. It’s a different ball game.
when you were in Pune, how often did you get up for Dynamic meditation and all other meditation programs during the day? Were you in Rajneeshpuram as well? How did a city grow within a period of a few years with people working 12 hour days? I actually wasn’t born during n e of these prior times, but if discipline isn’t the right word, what is the right word: motivation: thirst: natural?
The right word is play.
Heraclitus says “Self discipline just strengthens the ego”. I think you could find Osho quotes confirming this
It is true, the whole subject of discipline is difficult in Osho’s teachings. There are an awful lot of discourses where Osho praises the virtue of let-go. In The Way of the White Clouds Osho is against the development of the “will.” In fact I think the only times we are to use the “will” are in the first and third stages of dynamic.
In practice Sw Arun’s camps are pretty playful
play is good!
play is the name of the game.
i have played
“disciplined seeker”
and i have played
“drunk in the gutter.”
drunk in the gutter
makes you doubt the reality of your ego much more,for sure
the drunk in the gutter alwayseels odd about his ego
the disciplined guy knows he`s right,
but just a little more asanas this morning…
or a little less hocolate cake last night…
then he will be there.. …
One sentance in the fourth paragraph, talk about miss the bigger picture!
And in the good ole’ days
What was the wearing of orange?
What was the wearing of a mala?
What was the prescription of an hours meditation a day?
If not discipline.
They were all given by Osho to everyone that took sannyas.
On the whole, dicipline has not served humanity and Osho knew that only too well. You can’t find Osho saying too many positive things about it, but it is there if you look, e.g.
“Discipline does not mean what you have heard that it means. The word `discipline’ comes from the same root as disciple. Its root meaning is: capacity to learn, learning — to be more sensitive, to be more aware, to be more sincere, to be more authentic, to be more creative.”
(From Beyond Enlightenment Ch. 8 Meditation – the courage to be silent and alone).
And there are others especially from the Zen talks.
But if you prefer to pontificate from behind a computer than taste an Arun gathering, you will never know what the mans about.
hey dude,
the word discipline actually comes from the same root as the word diss.
discipline is one part of yourself dissing another part.
show yourself some respect,man
“this place is a tavern not a temple”
-osho. 21 march 1981
so lets drink!
your round
My, what a spirited discussion! Please note that I put the words together for the article – so it only represents my interpretation of what Sw Arun shared during the camp. I’d suggest that meeting Sw Arun and participating in one of his camps would best reveal his meaning for this “loaded” word! From my perspective, the camp was wonderful beyond all words.
Love,
Abha
All that respect has made you psychic Frank! How to get the – movement – I -need- is – on- my – shoulder regarding having a little less chocolate cake last night?(But you saw that extra bit , it just broke off).
Latest Chai with Nirman Veeresh mentions wanting something for himself ,not what someone else wanted for him, which gives even more food for thought.
Actually if you look in The Orange Book Bhagwan has a smoking meditation…
Friends,
After reading all the responses I must say I am totally flattered by the fact that within 18 years of Master leaving the body people has forget the true message of OSHO. He always emphasised his synnasins to be meditative,pure iin body ,mind and heart.
SWAMI ARUN has put together all the things that is needed for meditative life and what OSHO himself talked from the very beginning of his quest to heal the wound of mankinds.SWAMI ARUN has described them as PANCH SHEELS aka “five desciplines”.They are not desciplines in the sense what people generally conceive them to be.To know what they actually mean you have to come and hear from SWAMI ARUN himself.They are the tools to trandform oneself from suffering to blissfullness,from worldly pains to enlightenment.
The PAANCH SHEELS are :
1.Shuddhi (Purification of Body,Mind & Feelings):OSHO has described all this in book : Dhyan Sutra
2.Sadhana ( Sannyasin has to meditate daily ): Meditate and practice OSHO meditation techniques daily .Hear or read OSHO daily so as to have constant contact with OSHO).For detail see OSHO book: Meditation ,The first and last freedom
3.Satsang(Being in the presence of the master): Wear constantly his mala,go to sharings and meditation camps regularly to be in his energy field.See OSHO book : The Path of meditation aka Sadhana Path
4.Sanskar (the right habits): Let go of every thing that happens to you and around you.Always feel that every thing wil pass be it pain,sorrow,happiness,bliss and whatever.Only be dedicated to the path and surrender on to the feet of the master.See all his books for this.
5.Samadhi(The Ultimate Enlightenment): Know that your is the path of enlightenment .May thay comes in this life or whatever life ,your the the treveller of the path of enlightenment.Don’t be tense nor get panic if this is not happening,your ultimate destiny is enlightenment.See all OSHO books for this
Now friend,just read carefully above PANCHSHEELS or FIVE DESCIPLINES for the people on the path ,that SWAMI ARUN has described and what I have understand so far .They are life transforming SUTRAS.
(Now may be the friend who said OSHO’S teaching is LET GO will also be satisfied with FIVE descipline).
hey yoganand,
take it easy.
if you are going to get enlightened in this life or whatever life,why not chill out and dont forget to have a few laughs with your mates and girlfriends along the way?
and dont worry about all us idiots who have missed the point of osho,we are just here to make you feel better about yourself.
For those who are biting(and chewing?) the finger, I think swami Arun is surely pointing towards ‘that’ and nothing else whatsoever. I don’t think the panch sheels are commandments to enforce on the masses, but rather suggestions to sincere and intelligent (not knowledgeable) seekers on the path. When all you want is Enlightenment and some nice play on the way, why not have that ‘play’ whole heartedly with purity, meditativeness, gratitude and with right habits? The play is thousand fold that way, believe me!. Now, if you start disecting my poor words then ouch…you will be biting my finger as well.
Remember Osho’s word’s “Nothing is hidden in existence, only you need the eyes to see it, awareness to read it and ABILITY TO ENJOY IT”. Having attended his meditation camp in Atlanta, I can assure you, Swami Arun’s five methods which he condensed from Osho’s teachings are nothing but the tools to make seeker’s journey most playful(in a healthy way) yet promisingly fruitful.
At the link, you can see this drunkard sleeping on a nice sunny beach and dreaming about him flirting with beautiful girls .
http://spiritoons.blogspot.com/2007/10/sudi-narayan-spiritoon-nothing-is.html
Now, if you substitute enlightenment for the girls which obviosuly ones dream days in – days out, and playfulness for his bad-drinking habits, then you will surely get what I mean.
Cheers!
-Anand Teertha (Sudi)
friends, you can check my article about Sw. Arun’s trip to Canada here:
http://www.osadhana.com/2007/05/spark-to-light-wildfire-swanand-arun.html
it seems like its high time we diversified the meaning of the word discipline, most of the 21st century – recently attracted to OSHO- offsprings seem to hate the word discipline, especially the westerners.
i have been to swami Arun’s camp and my understanding is that Swami Arun is not advocating the Hatha yoga (like smeone said above) disciplines of torturing the body, fasting, sleeping on nails etc to train oneself for spiritual attainment. all he is sharing is his experince of having witnessed Osho’s meditation movement being devastated only because of people’s misinterpretation of Osho’s “freedom” and giving a long researched solution to this problem. i would rather like to replace Swami Arun’s “discipline” with balnced – lifestyle for all those who fear this word and are making it such a big issue. I have also understood that these negative comments are upshooting because Swami Arun’s five solutions are hurting the egos of all those who label themselves as Osho lovers and are actually puking thier life out due to overdrinking, oversexing and overdrugging. And i am really sad that u r not being able to break the wall that hides and saves ur long cherished ego.
Without attending even one meditation camp its very amateurish to post these comments. Well isnt it also what Osho said, not to judge anything with ur pre concieved notion without experiencing it???
i again read some comments, its so funny some dude is actually thinking that swami arun is asking u not to drink and smoke… very unintellgent and amateur
all he is saying is that experience everything but do it with awareness, ( its like quoting Osho)
and for alok gitam
yes we very well know that Osho has suggested a smoking meditation in the orange book,
as it seems that u havent read it, the meditation is for smokers who want to quit smoking,
the meditation: if you smoke awarely u cant smoke again. u actually see how stupid it is: taking the smoke in and throwing it out. u can do the same with oxygen and its not harmful at all.
p.s. please grow up and stop embarrasing urself by expressing ur limited knowledge.
“Swami Arun’s five solutions”
Although Swamiji’s five solutions are a pretty good idea, I have never read or heard Osho say anything like this and I have spent hundreds of hours listening to His discourses. Possibly there is something like the PANCHSHEELS in books before 1970, not available in the West, though of course this could not include wearing the mala, as the mala dates from ’71 ( I think!)
This is from about 1970 though I don’t know the reference…
Osho was asked for his ten commandments. This was his response:
“You have asked for my Ten Commandments. It’s a difficult matter, because I am against any kind of commandment. Yet, just for the fun of it, I write:
1. Never obey anyone’s command unless it is coming from within you also.
2. There is no God other than life itself.
3. Truth is within you, do not search for it elsewhere.
4. Love is prayer.
5. To become a nothingness is the door to truth. Nothingness itself is the means, the goal and attainment.
6. Life is now and here.
7. Live wakefully.
8. Do not swim – float.
9. Die each moment so that you can be new each moment.
10. Do not search. That which is, is. Stop and see. ”
There are also ten non-commandments from Beyond Enlightenment, #23
The Ten non-commandments:
“The first: freedom.
The second: uniqueness of individuality.
The third: love.
The fourth: meditation.
The fifth: non-seriousness.
The sixth: playfulness.
The seventh: creativity.
The eighth: sensitivity.
The ninth: gratefulness.
Tenth: a feeling of the mysterious.
These ten non-commandments constitute my basic attitude towards reality, towards man’s freedom from all kinds of spiritual slavery.”
Possibly the early books, before 1970, are more addressed to Indians, but this is a bit speculative. Osho’s message did seem to depend on the needs of the audience He was addressing and did change a bit with the times.
surely the whole thing ithat is going on with arun and sannyas is very similar with what happened with
” star trek,the next generation.”
when it first came out,the old time trekkies did not like it at all,criticising it for being too derivative,and slating the new captain being too cerebral and diplomatic,unlke the original captain who was the ultimate explorer.
i myself have no objection to a new generation of sannyas-trekkers boldly going where others have gone before.
even though nowadays,i myself have forsworn all sadhanas and moved on to the final stage :sitting in a drug and alcohol induced stupor,having endless sex whilst watching reruns of `shameless` on the telly.
Dear Friend,
Long can go the discussions.And ARUN SWAMIJEE has said that nobody in this world is going to understand OSHO unless they meditate and walk in the path with five descipline……………….now if anybody doesn’t want to walk the way that’s their business and their freedom.If they want to take the path of PAANCH SHEELS,then come this way……………….the way of freedom which comes from disciplined lifestyle…………we respect other people’s freedom too even if they want to have drinks on the sea beach with girls or boys at thier sides.But then can they respect themself the same way for being synnasin at the one hand and leading the life of countryside drunkard????????? Is this what they have understood OSHO????????????????????????
OSHO please save and forgive them ,for they don’t what they are doing to your teachinds.
I want to correct last line of my previous comment.
OSHO PLEASE FORGIVE THEM AND SAVE THEM,FOR THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO YOUR TEACHINGS.
Swami Yoganand,
One can keep going on either extreme, and Osho has spoke about this many times: the way of indulgence and the way of repression.
They key is balance, Zorba the Buddha.
I believe there is alot of mis-interpretation going on in this discussion!!
When Sw. Arun spoke to us about these 5 things, he was talking about some of the main points of Osho’s earlier talks. These are guidelines and suggestions, not hard-on rules and regulations.
Osho helps the seeker in every discourse with everything he can use, and beyond words for the most part.
So this talk about boys and girls on the beach, who gives a shit who;se on the beach!! More of discussion on this will make the beach lose its “ea” and will be replaced by “itc”!
No one can disrupt Osho or his vision because Osho is readily available and the true Sannyasin will look to Osho himself and no one else! And I believe Sw. Arun is pushing seekers to seek and dissolve into Osho, and not himself which is the beauty of him and Osho Tapoban!
amrito mentions :
“these are guidelines and not hard-on rules and regulations”
if you are going to go from sex to superconsciousness,you dont need rules but you will need a hard-on…
come on guys,you go on blathering zorba the buddha the blablabla…..
have you read zorba the greek by nikos kazantzakis?
zorba is an alcoholic manual labourer with a history of womanising and violence,and a really cool dude.
zorba says:
“what do you mean you dont want trouble?
what is life but taking off your belt and going looking for trouble?
these are my three
guidelines:
turn on
tune in
and drop your pants
leave the `balanced life` religious crap out.
it turns you into a self-righteous religidiot.
He he Frank.
i have read the book and I think Osho took is it as a metaphor (not literally)…its available in a movie too and a good one….
Osho’s life was an example of utter discipline as a Buddha and that of a Zorba, with all the comforts that one could ever imagine of and yet completely unattached of evrything.
I have been traveling with Swami Arun in all his trips in US and Canada, and what he was tirelessly trying to do was to bring people together to meditate and ask them to be committed to meditation. I have seen people actually thanking him for boosting them up.
I could not believe that we opened up 4 centers in Toronto Area where people come together to meet every week and in some, everyday. Talking about other things in this blog, is just a Gibberish. You can see for yourself. have a look at http://www.veoh.com/channels/oshotapoban , I have tried to upload some videos of what he says and what people feel about the camps (more to come).
Compilations on the disciplines/guidelines will be soon available on http://www.oneearthonesky.com
love and hugs
Ram Krishnananda
thanks frank but I’d rather have Osho’s take on Zorba, even if Nikos invented the man! And i’m sure Osho didnt mean you have to become an alcoholic first, a labourer than a wominiser to become a buddha.
So leave that crap out.
Good guidelines, seems to be working perfect for you given the nature of them!
Haha, boy, I know Osho said religion is a four letter word, but it seems alot of people are adding another four letter word to it too–”Holy”.
Keep running from “self-ritgheousness” and I’m sure the opposite is much better!! We can all see it cleary!!
friends,(and amrito too)
This much is clear for sure,life for Osho Sannyasins will not be same after the introduction of PAANCHSHEELS by Swami Arun.
Why am I compelled to write some thing over the comments above?That’s because I have seen the recent Osho movement very very closely and its downfall from its pinnacle.After seeing the movement I was wondering what will happen to our beloved master OSHO’s teachings of meditation,love and celebration.Then here comes PAANCHSHEELS,a ray of light in the darkness.I committed myself to this cause of SWAMI ARUN i.e.of re-establishing OSHO movement again as it was when OSHO was in the body.
Coming from the school of teachings of Swami Arun and Osho tapoban, it is my duty to clearify things to the world about PAANCHSHEELS. .Nobody is saying they are hard and fast rules.They are guidelines for the right balance to the life.But one has to follow the path first, to know about it, is this clear?So what to say.Words won’t do,the practice will make difference to synnasin’s life.
If I am not being able to present things in the right prespective,please forgive me.It is due to my shotrcomings to put up words.
hey Sw. yoganand, I totally understand you! Its good you clarified because people take words tooo seriously on this discussion!
Thank you!
As I understand it there are people who have gone to Arun and dont come away starry eyed, they come away sceptical about a religion being formed. Of course they may be few, but that does not mean they may, or may not be mistaken. It sort of undermines the argument, ‘if only you would go and see him’ as there are obviously those who have and remain as unimpressed as some of the writers here seem impressed from the other side.
There were small formal disciplines in Pune one, but they came from the organisation, mainly from Arup, stuff about meditating every day, etc, but only a minority did those disciplines.
I never myself got the feeling that Osho was into discipline, and I say that as someone who was around him for some years. Of course inner discipline “arises” through awareness, but it cannot be forced.
As for the Ranch Amrito, I myself never saw the whole thing as about disciplined “work”. People were just playing most of the time. Maybe some took it seriously and got taken in by the rhetoric of “worship”. But most played around that. The city infrastructure was made in about 2 years, the rest of the time we had to stall because of the legal stuff, and a lot of what we did was ‘job creation’
hey Heractitus, thanks for sharing your experience!
I was also, not emediately, but for a short time after skeptical about a religion being formed. However, this came after the actual experience in Tapoban, which was extremely nourishing, full of dance and meditation.
I found something that is unique and beautiful that is happening in Osho Tapoban and Sw. Arun’s camp and I could never let that part go.
I’ve written an article about my experiences over the last 3 years here:
http://www.osadhana.com/2007/05/spark-to-light-wildfire-swanand-arun.html
Unfortunately it isn’t posted here on SannyasNews because I guess theres already too much about this topic. But apart from the topic of Sw. Arun, I share my experiences about other things as well.
But I believe all this confusion is based on the ignorance people have on the other dimension of Osho’s work that was happening in Nepal and India while he was in the body. Obviously a large number of people could not travel to Oregon where Osho was due to financial constraints but Osho designated communes to be built in and around India and Nepal.
In Nepal specifically, Sw. Anand Arun was the pioneer since the 1970s in coordinating large centers and eventually a very big on in Pokhara during the 80s. And typically from most people who were around Sw. Arun, he has been doing it the same way since and around this time.
When Osho came to Nepal, Sw. Anand Arun was the main cooridinator behind the visit. Osho stayed a whopping 4 weeks in country that basically survives on foreign aid. Although inspite the protest of countries against Osho who could easily influence Nepal, Sw. Arun and other sannyasins tried hard to keep him there. In these lecture series Osho would always finish off with “Okay Arun”, as well.
So, perhaps alot of Westerners are not familiar with this side of the story, that Osho is not a centralized phenomena. Just becasue some people were glued around him all the time, dont make them authorities.
However, the work in Osho Tapoban and in the rest of the world, coordinated again by Sw. Arun is not merely his own creation. It has been happening for years at end and to pass judgement without experience is not valid. Atleast raise these doubts through email to Sw. Anand Arun or Tapoban and value the response they can give. Even if you dont participate in the camps, atleast show up and ask these questions/doubts face to face instead of behind a computer.
Amrito
A religion was formed around Osho called Rajneeshism.(1980-85) Sadly a relative few people not into meditation got that religion together and were able to establish it because most of the other people (the vast majority) were just into reclaiming their second birth, becoming a child again with all the play that involves.
I certainly was not hidling behind a computer when the religion was destroyed, there were no computers then. Many “sannyasins” were “running” and hiding like scared sheep from the Ranch at the end, but that did not include me. Then we had the madness of one “religion” almost replaced by another, when the new lot publicly burned the Book of Rajneeshism and Sheela’s robes. One lot as bad as the other I thought at the time. It felt equally fascist to me.
That’s why people are sensitive about religions around Osho.
As to the man himself…. why did he sort of allow it? Well lots of views, but at least it has made people like me be very alert to the creation of new religions in his name – which may have been his intention.
I am sure Arun is “alright” and genuine in his love of Osho and trying to create a string of centres etc in his name. A close friend of mine was in Nepal whilst Osho was there, I know from her the love the Nepalese showed him, and the atmosphere at the time.
I just have a different view that Osho is dissolved in his people, and the way of it is very subtle, the work is being done but does not need some formal organisation or Hindu church.
hey Heraclitus,
That is quite something to have been through such an experience in your lifetime, the whole drama and dance around Osho.
The experiences you bring forward are extraordinary and I totally understand the cautiousness of a religious identity being formed around Osho.
I think Osho himself has accepted the fact that this will probably be an inevitable truth.
But, from my own 22 year old understanding (not 22 years of experience, haha, im 22!), is Osho himself had Rajneeshpuram go down the way it did. He himself created Rajneeshism while he was in the body.
Anyone new to Osho can simply just scratch the surface to know the dangers of any Church being formed around Osho. When I look back at it, its simply something to be remembered for generations to come!
I can’t speak for the future, but if I have got something very strongly from Osho, then that is a rebellious spirit. If people who read or feel Osho cannot be rebellious than the salt is missing somewhere.
For example, in India and Nepal, Osho Dhara is one strand that totally distorted Osho by creating a trinity of 3 priest-like figures. They talk mostly, Osho comes second. They changed the photo in the Mala, they changed Osho’s meditations and they have a completely idiotic way of declaring enlightenment through examination.
Osho Dhara started a few years back, but I always knew, if any of these people within it scratched the surface, this foundation would have to break. And already soo much bullshit has come to surface and its become a creek instead of what some were calling a rapid.
All people have to do is digest Osho to find out what bullshit or not. And, Osho himself during the Sheela ordeal told all the sannyasins that it was their responsibility to protest and stop such tyrants.
Soo, back to Sw. Arun: I know there are some people in Tapoban that are assholes, but they are a small minority. But this is the case around the world. So, what Sw. Anand Arun is doing is creating more and more spaces for Osho Meditations around the world, without inhibitions. I found, just by having a meditation center in my own home and around my area, has benefited me tremendously.
Love, Amrito
I’d just like to comment on Heraclitus’s recolection of the creation of Rajneeshism. I think most people who were around at that time would say that it was little more than an invention to bolster up Osho’s Immigration case, no one took the religion bit very seriously. I doubt, if at the time, even Heraclitus took it that seriously. The precepts were quite innocuous, a few gacharmies and the calling of work, worship. (I mean, if your going to bow down to anything, i can’t think of 3 nicer things to bow down to.)
The religion was eventually dispensed with and as H points out they did go a bit over the top with the publicity stunts.
But there was a little book. Wasn’t Sheela trying to become high priestess?
The book too was thought to have come about to give credence to the existence of Rajneeshism; a religious leader needs a religion which they must have thought needed a book of words. Not 100 per cent sure but the story goes that Sheela approached Osho about the book and he said, ‘you write it Sheela.’
Good Point Dharmen about the immigration case. However Sheela and her gang did exploit that situation. Dont forget it was Sheela who asked Osho, not the other way round, whether she could create the book of Rajneeshism.
I am not sure whether you were there as I was when the new order burned Sheela’s high priestess robes of which there were many (to support Alok’s point), and also piled on the books of Rajneeshism. Maybe they were trying to burn Sheela out of sannyas consciousness, not destroy a religion? Personally I felt it was ugly and walked away feeling i wanted no part in doing just the sort of thing that Sheela herself would have done.
Osho himself when back in India, always seemed to refer to the fact that he had allowed a religion to be created at Rajneeshpuram so that in future no religion could thenceforth be created in his name.
When i look back I can see that under Sheela there were some of the hallmarks of a religion or cult, not just outer thijngs like Gauchamis, etc, into which I and many others had been partly drawn, Yours might be a minority opinion that it was all just part of the fun.
For example severe prescriptions on the use of condoms and rubber gloves (rubber gloves for God’s sake), for all from the Spring of 1984. I remember clearly when five commune members were banished in Hamburg when one of them got pregnant, and then split on the rest!!!
Of course this only applied very largely to those who were commune members, outside of the communes many carried on in their own sweet way, and as you say simply enjoyed that.
I agree with Heraclitus
“When i look back I can see that under Sheela there were some of the hallmarks of a religion or cult, not just outer thijngs like Gauchamis, etc, into which I and many others had been partly drawn, Yours might be a minority opinion that it was all just part of the fun…”
Even from London it felt like it had generated into a cult under Sheela (and all the other big Moms)
The religion thing, I sure, was originally created to back up the claim, in the immigration case, of Osho’s status as a religious leader. After it’s creation it was misused by Sheela and others but those abuses of power would have come any way, Sheela was not the kind of person that needed a religion to do that.
As for the burning of the books, too many people were hurt by all that had gone down at the ranch for that to be part of the fun, no, that was an attempt to erase the past, yes, a bit more than a publicity stunt.
I would like to quote a saying of one of the mysterios saint of all time sivapuri baba ( for whom beloved osho said its india’s fortune that she had this sadhu) said: ”Two minds never stop arguing when they realise then they are one so no argument.”
He also said: Relatively speaking everybody is right but absolutely speaking everybody is wrong until one sees truth or god or self.
So Only meditation , meditation and meditation gives the fruit. as beloved master Osho said.
well said!~
Of course you are right, Santosh, but a bit of gossip is sometimes nice.
well said!
Dear All!
I thoroughly read the all above comments. DISCIPLINE refers to systematic instruction to be followed by disciple. The PANCHSHEEL or five disciplines what disciple should opt has the very meaning. The arguments can not experience the real meaning of PANCHSHEEL it can be only experienced by practice. I am very grateful BODHISATTVA Swami ANAND ARUN who compiled the Five Sheels and guided to practice to find the ultimate FREEDOM and spiritual essence.
Dear,
Please don’t afraid to follow the very primary things. If you may have confusion, please visit the OSHO TAPOBAN- the part of heaven where sannyasins follows the PANCHSHEEL.
With loads of love and warm hugs.
Anand Swaroop
Santosh misses the point of discussion in many ways.
Where there is no discussion, and toleration of those who dont exactly share ones’ views, then tyranny follows, whether it is in politics or religion, and it creates zombies or fanatics, as is evidenced in parts of modern day Islam.
Great advances in scientific knowledge, and in spiritual things have developed when MORE than one brain is invloved, where there are friendly exchanges of insight between people.
For example almost all of Einstein’s original ideas came as a result of mixing in his discussion group in the year before he set out his masterpiece in 1904.
Jesus’s great ministry followed from his membership of the Essene communes in the Judean desert in which discussion and experimentation of spiritual matters and with spiritual practices was encouraged by teachers such as John the Baptist.
Socrates who was the greatest teacher of ancient Greece actively encouraged discussion amongst his disciples. His opponents called this “corrupting the young” and executed him for it.
Closing oneself to discussion is returning to the tribe, and all that backwardness amongst human beings who were afraid to be alone – and meant there was no human progress to speak of for 50,000 years and maybe more, until around 3.000 years ago.
Swami Anand Swaroop – what a great name!
I am not confused!
I am very sure that you are happy with Arun and doing your disciplines/PAHCHSHEELs, I would not want to disturb your faith.
Just be a little openminded that one day you may not need these disciplines, and that others may not need them even now, and such discipline is not their path.
I am sure that Tapoban is a wonderful place, though I have heard that some people leave, as they do everywhere and have their own stories. For some it will fit, for others, and that includes some sannyasins who see tantra as their path, and not yoga, then they will move on I am sure!
Dear Heraclitus!
Firstly you comment on my name. Yes, really it is a great! as it is given by the beloved master. I am always grateful to him. You also got unique name resembles with the pre-Socratic Greek philosopher.
The PANCHSHEELS really comprises the five lines to be free and for being in yourself. ‘Be yourself’ can be experienced by these disciplines.
I agree with your opinion that the people whose consciousness level is higher than that of a disciple, they need not any SHEELS. As they are already filled with all SHEELS/ SELF DISCIPLINE.
With my love and HIS BLESSING
hi swaroop,
lke you,i am also on a very high level of cnsciousness,although of course,immensely humble and very disciplined.
i predict that soon you will transcend the lowly status of disciple and join me in nirvana…..
Dear frank,
Nice, you read me.
Your prediction never come true because I always want to remain in disciplehood. Lower and higher status is just a state of one’s mind or intelligence.
Don’t predict the happening. Just allow to happen.
You dont have right to predict and dont have capacity to visualize the future. If you had, not you were posting the comment on this floor. Remain cool with your high level of conciousness.
with love,
Swaroop
“we give away nothing so liberally as advice”
-le duc de la rochefoucauld
Dear all ,
Panchhaseels is for sleeping person like me who always forget the osho’s main message ‘live in present momement’ or ‘be awakefull’ or ………and it is not for buddhas(like Heraclitus) . It is(panchhsheel) really helping me to be more awakefull and loving.
I think, everybody of us first of ask ourself where we are before talking like buddhas or osho. Am I really being happy? peacefull? blissfull? loving?………….. If yes, then we don’t follow it because it follows us. If not then we have to correct our lifestyle(way of living and thinking). In this correction pachasheels comes automatically.
Lastly, Arun sw is advising us panchasheel based on his experienced with problem of thousands of sannyasins around the world.He is presenting it to us from osho’s book.
I expect Arun is against recreational drugs with all these yoga rules, etc. But what about his Master – he certainly enjoyed a blast of the nitrous as one can see from the three nitrous books, Arun and others seem to conveniently forget this aspect of their tantric master.
Dont think we would see Arun recommending that the only way to go beyond sex is to indulge it, which was the message of the Master.
haha, that’s hilarious.
Heractlitus, the causes behind nitrious has never been proved or established, and even according to Osho’s dentist, Devagit, it was completely medicinal.
However the bad press against Osho certainly loved to proport it to huge and extensive lengths. In fact, Osho himself denied it as being n e thing similar to a recreational drug and dissolved the issue as “absolute lies”.
Now, Osho wasn’t the type who was ever in denial and this is pretty evident during Interviews with the Press. Osho pretty much said things just to give the press more substance to talk about, for example, sex.
But, I’d rather take Osho’s take on this rather than n e one else’s. So whatever rationalizations people want to beat around the bush with, its all good, but it shows their lack of trust or understanding on the matter or the master. But mainly shows their doubt.
And about sex,
Sw. Arun actually spoke bluntly about sex and its relationship with meditation at both events in Canada: the meditation camp & the talk program at the university of guelph.
Without any hesitation infront of what people may percieve as “conservative” indians or “progressive” canadians, he resonated the message of “Sex to Superconciousness”.
In fact, one of the five things Sw. Arun recommends is having a better sex life, and enhancing the quality of sex.
See Heraclitus, it seems like you like to jump to conclusions pretty quick without getting an experience of what you are criticizing.
‘Dont think we would see Arun recommending that the only way to go beyond sex is to indulge it, which was the message of the Master.’
When did Osho ever recommend indulgence of sex?
Perhaps I have misunderstood you but Osho rarely, if at all, talks about indulgence in a positive way.
And Heraclitus, you are as bad as the yellow press associating recreational and the sessions that produced those books.
come on,dharmen.
he was definitely blasted in those sessions.
the whole style of his words in the books,not to mention overt comments,show it.
and have you not read the reports by his nurses (viha 1999,i think) they describe classic symptoms of nitrous intoxication.he hallucinates that people are there,then are not there.hears footsteps that no one elde does.standard symptom.he even bites the nurses finger,laughin, at one point.
also cryptically comments,after offering the nurse a beer from his fridge at the end of one session,`cyptically`(according to the nurse)comments,(`with a twinkle in his eye`)
`you can get drunk,i am on something else.`
this was written and published by devoted disciples.devageets account is in the same edition.doesnt look like he disagreed.
read the books and these accounts,if you are interested.
i like to use my own intelligence find out things for myself rather than rationalise about `trust` and `doubt`.
i guess thats where i differ from people like amrito.
made me laugh in pune samadhi.all those people filing past oshos psychedelic roomful of mirrors dental chamber.
in a samadhi?
they just keep walking,trying hard to get enlightened and not a flicker of wonder enters their meditative lttle minds!
nitrousoxide
lauging gas.
geddit?
Frank your right, Its just that I know Heraclitus would not himself have anything to do with recreational drugs and probably not recommend their use either.
“i like to use my own intelligence find out things for myself rather than rationalise about `trust` and `doubt`.”
Actually, to call it “intelligence” is a matter of debate, any idiot can read a magazine and conclude almost anything (and feel like they find things out for themselves).
How about taking into account the statements given by Devageet and another dental technician, Jalal? It depends whose account of the situation you’re taking because they are pretty much on opposite ends.
*Snippet From Anthony Thompon’s Article:
Devageet, Osho personal dentist from Poona one, to the end of Osho´s life stated:
“Osho never used nitrous oxide, I used it, as his dentist, during his dental treatment sessions. Osho, as other masters have demonstrated (see Baba Neem karolie taking a massive dose of LSD on his first meeting with Guru Ram Dass, and showing no effects whatsoever), showed that the effects of Nitrous Oxide during his dental treatment had no effects of diminishing his clarity and awareness. He repeatedly showed that he could easily use the physiological effects of relaxation for a creative purpose, hence the three books dictated while in the dental chair: “Notes of a Madman”, “Books I have loved”, and “Glimpses of a Golden Childhood”. Having said that I can speak about aspects which do not betray that trust. Nitrous Oxide is a valid and valued analgesic and anesthetic agent, as you know, and it still provides the basis of anesthetic techniques because of its proven track record of safety and efficacy. It is a fact too that people have used it for leisure purposes. Osho was given nitrous oxide in a purely dental context.”
Also, Sw. Jalal the dental equipment technician stated the following: “during the Ranch and in Poona 2 I was the dental room technician, responsible for looking after the equipment. Unless Osho was having surreptitious sessions without my knowledge, he wasn’t using gas on a daily, or even weekly basis.”
*end quote
Now, Frank, instead of dropping your pants everytime you read Christopher Calder’s sermons, don’t wear pants at all and be a bit more comfortable!
Anthony seemed to use his intelligence a bit more by actually interviewing the main people around Osho, and indepth, not just in a magazine.
And these 3 books, out of 500 books, seem to stand out as extraordinary and “far-out”? Are you kidding me!!
Every Osho book has an element of surprise and outrageousness where many can easily say he was “on something”. The fact is, some people want Osho to portrayed that way so they can feel a tad bit better about their own addictions.
OSHO, during his short stay in his physical bodies,has fulfilled his dream to awaken the deep sleep society through his lectures, silence, charismatic presence, controversy and contradictions. I think HE is total and nothing can be added or deducted form him or his techniques.
In this free society any one can teach, practice or propagate his own manifestation of spirituality but please leave osho alone.
We don’t want any other OSHO in whatever form, no matter they are ” doing Osho’s work ” or not, no matter if they are teaching osho teachings because osho speaks with us directly via his audio and video tapes and also with his books.
EVERYONE IS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO LISTEN TO OSHO WHEN HE COMES TO US DIRECTLY VIA HIS BOOKS TAPES AND VIDEOES. I dont think othe massiah of osho is needed for this task.
I pray history wont repeat for osho and osho sannyasin as with other religious sect.
hi,
the viha magazine interviews were conducted by sannyasins interviewing the sannyasin dental nurses and devageet in an osho sannyasin publication.
not a christopher calder invention at all!
and yes i take devageet`s statements into account:
they were in the same article.
devageets statements are good enough to laugh at wtihout gas
first hesays that the drug had `no effect whatsoever` then,in same paragraph: `he used the physiological effects creatively`
confused?
he is.
plus,you will find, if you inquire,that ram das,the author of the neem karoli acid story later admited that he fabricated it with the aim of impressing 1960s acid heads.
so that statement is just hippie nonsense.
and devageet didnt even like hippies!
and yes,these three books do stand out.
read them.
style,content.
not what he said in public.
he was clearly stoned.
i cant see the problem.
did he have to be a clean living yogi type like you?
who says?
hi dharmen,
interesting to hear that heraclitus is a clean-living sort of guy.
i had him down as a sort of cross between alan watts and frank gallagher.
although frankly,i dont think he is heracltus at all,he sounds a lt more like parminides to me!
If smone had spoken to me about these disciplines before i had attended a camp facilitated by swami Arun then ofcourse my opinion wud match with those of heraclitus and the likes. But i have attended his camps and i have seen the fire that burns in Swami Arun’s words, the zeal that sparkles in his eyes, and the youthfulness that radiates from his ancient being. im 20 n yet i feel very old infront of him, he has always been a supporter and a pioneer of everything new and revolutionary. I have known his life. when Osho sent him to Nepal, he was the only sannyasin working to spread the word in the whole country.He was arrested as a terrorist for selling Osho’s books during a strict anarchist regime. His family disowned him and threw him out for following Osho. His social circle boycotted him for being the only man who used to go to his office in mala and the orange clothes. It was made compulsary by Osho for the sannyasins of those day.
Today Swami Arun is above sixty and yet he has the courage to challenge and invite the global world on international media that he can answer all controversies, queries, questions, arguments against Osho. Today his efforts have culminated into 100′s of osho centers and communes around the world where people (majority being below 30) gather to meditate, celebrate and love. Today the number of Osho sanyassins inspired by Swami Arun around the world has reached above 50,000 and 75% of it is below 30 (confirmed through the sannyas forms recorded in Tapoban)
Amidst all these I only see a man who is only an ardent lover of Osho, i feel lucky to have witnessed such true and pure devotion and love during my lifetime. And yes! I am educated, a worshipper of freedom, a youth and also a rebel and yet i support Swami Arun for all that he says and does, because i have seen and known that Truth lives in him.
I would also like to ask all those like Heraclitus to look into themselves whether they have even a fragment of rebeliousness that is there in this old man. (and please judge through your actions and not words.)
Frankly, Frank,
these days I dont know who I am.
Like you I consider the Viha articles all authored by Osho’s dental people including Devageet definitive. Sessions went on for hours, much longer than was needed for medicinal purposes. And I dont think that Osho cared one jot whether people knew or not, he authorised the 3 nitrous books to be published against BOTH Sheela and Vivek’s wishes, so he sure meant those who have experienced these things to “know”. Any user of any hallucigenic can immediately realise this by reading the texts of those books.
My original point seems to have been missed, but not by you.
What Arun is doing is respectable in and of itself, but whether it is anything to do with “Osho’s work” seems to me to be a leading question – and one that people have a right to ask here and anywhere else.
Osho was always driving disciples, etc to the edge of the abyss, and still does. But Arun… where is the abyss?!
As for Dharmen’s comment, he may have me wrong. I am all for getting high and not just for an hour, a day or a week, but am long in the tooth! The body has already all kinds of natural resources to do this.
To me that was one of the greatest adverts for dynamic, get the knack of becoming high without any downers or side-effects, and people seemed aware of the bodymind’s capacity for this in the old days…. such a simple thing, but people’s minds need much more..
and of course we are all lazy unless the axe of death hangs above us. .
I’m pretty sure Sheela wasn’t around when those books were published!
For those interested in the dental chair stories sannyasnews carries two articles in the Back Pages: OSHO IN THE DENTAL CHAIR and Re-visiting Osho in the Dental Chair.
my bad, i aint pretty sure, looks like that was the ranch year eh..
devageet said “osho was given nitrous in a purely dental context”
a dental context where the patient called the shots,dictated the dosage,discoursed on the world being made up of nitrogen and oxygen and how the government hates freedom loving drug-users,took the mickey out of his dentist and the nurses,called sessions at 6 in the morning(jalal) and finally ordered he dentist to do an op that he refused to do,then sacked him for refusing.
yes,a purely dental context.
i see that sort of thing all the time down at my dentist.
and i am not criticising osho.
he was who he was.
a rascal saint.his own words.
what need to wash and brush up his halo?
and do such a poor job of it,as well!
“My original point seems to have been missed, but not by you.
What Arun is doing is respectable in and of itself, but whether it is anything to do with “Osho’s work” seems to me to be a leading question – and one that people have a right to ask here and anywhere else.
Osho was always driving disciples, etc to the edge of the abyss, and still does. But Arun… where is the abyss?!” – Herclitus
Dear Heraclitus
I can go on and on about my experience with Swami Arun trying to answer your questions. But seeing the frivolity involved in these arguments i would again like to bring it down to your experience itself. How do you have the authority to question whether Swami Arun is really doing ‘Osho’s work’ when you have not attended even one of his camps.
If your comments had been posted after your experience with Swami Arun, then it would have had the validity that it today lacks Since it would be a story of experience and not speculation!
haha
“and i am not criticising osho.
he was who he was”
Its nice you think you know who he “was”, however, to the contrary,
“Osho is”.
Perhaps after that statement you’ll be thinking up another witty line and label me as “confused” and too caught up with Osho. (Maybe gimme a few tips like, dropping my pants, tunin in and turning on).
Believe me, i;ve dropped my pants, tuned in and turned on, but that’s as normal as taking my morning dump. I don’t need it as advice.
Or like Heraclitus, you’ll recommend having a few beers or smoking a few dubies but been there and done that. Things like beer or dubies may very well come in and out from time to time, but they aren’t my mirrors to Osho or his vision. Yes he’s spoken about them, but Osho’s contribution will undoubtebly remain bringing meditation into all forms of modern life.
His vastness can’t be narrowed down to a few quotes or books.
Hence, when people question Sw. Arun’s life and work relating to Osho, it’s a narrow point of view. Perhaps they’ve only seen one aspect of Osho, but there are millions of colours shining out of his spectrum.
Given, there are alot of people who have nothing to do with Osho and are using him as a facade for power and money as well. They come and go.
So be it, Sw. Arun or Osho Tapoban may not be your cup of tea, but to discard the tea without tasting it is ignorance. And, truth be known, whatever work is happening has nothing less of Osho’s meditations, discourses and presence.
WELL SAID AMRITO!
This is exactly what is happening here. the tea is being discarded, condemned and damned without being tasted.
Many years have passed since Osho’s physical presence but the story of ignorance is still the same, only forms have changed.
I would say it is in some ways worse. Osho is not in the body, hence let’s attack those who carry his message.
It feels that many old sannyasins (and of course many are amazing and beautiful) are bitter and sad, angry and disappointed. They all blame Osho, or in this case let’s blame Arun, for having spent years and years around Osho and reached no peace, no love and no gratitude! So drugs are a better option AGAIN.
Maybe Arun is proposing something that others have missed! ? Maybe one should drop condemnation and use a commons sense if the heart is not working and see the point?
Having attended many camps of Arun sw I have not seen anybody having guts and question Arun sw in the same manner as he is being crucified here-maybe questions drop, or maybe too cowardly to stand up and make a point? I think the latter, hence all these shouting via Internet.
aatmo neerav,
do not waste time in the frivolity trying to argue with lost souls like heraclitus.osho`s work needs to be done,now.
heraclitus has, like so many around osho,abused his freedom irrevocably.
unlike you,who speaks his truth like a lotus in the drug infested mud of sannas news,he has no authority whatsoever.
you are right,the darkness of ignorance wil always be around the pure truth seekers like you and me and amrito
do not be disturbed by these fools.
like the popes in the resort,they just crave power and lust
that is life in the kal yuga,
blessings
swami satya
sswami satya, seems like you’ve renouced evil, isn’t it about time you renounced good, you may get stuck for life times as a saint otherwise.
Swami Satya,
Thankyou for the support.
However i would also like to say that only lost souls come to Osho… nobody comes realized in readymade. N we all fall under the same umberella until we have attained to what Osho realized. Regarding true seeking, i also dont think that only you, amrito and i am true seekers here, infact all souls in this creation are true seekers. Yes, the placing on the continnum could be different, but everything is under momentum and everything is moving towards the source.
Like you said the popes of power and lust are hoarding up like never before, but look around, Osho is also coming to life as never before. Life couldnt be more jucier than this!
Interesting discussion, this should go on. People who are meditating will surely benifit without any doubts, but who don’t just even care about meditating will not get the point at all!
Having been with him in all these trips for 6 weeks in US and Canada and listen him explain Osho tirelessly and answer people’s queries, I can only say that Swami Arun is propagating Osho’s message of meditation with out a slightest of his ego coming in.
And wherever he went he talked about discipline which is just a commonsense thing that we have lost the “senses” out. I saw people appreciate his efforts with their hearts and thanked him to have kindled the fire of some groups meditations and to get together to share Osho amongst fellow travellers.
Because without meditation there is no transformation. And everybody discussing here might very well agree with me.
you are right,ramakrishna,
those of us who meditate will understand everything,whilst the non-meditators will wallow in the excrement of their own ignorance.
are we not blessed indeed to be so bathed in spiritual light and to be so transformed as to leave the dark dark world of ignorance-intoxication far behind?
and what of the many who,as you say,`will not get the point at all`?
i feel intense compassion for these sad beings.
but what can i do?
it is clear my enlightenment is much more important.
i salute the god in you.
Strange these elitist attitudes of Satya el al. Many live in meditation without even knowing the word meditaiton. If Satya were to meet one, he certainly would not realise it. . I think this is just the Hindu mind as Osho used to say, full of superiority complexes, and unable to understand joy in it’s simple sense.
I agree with you Swami Ramkrishna. Without meditation there is no transformation. All arguing, discussing, contemplating are nothing but nourishment for the ego. They end where meditation starts.
yes aaatmo,
these fools know only how to nourish their egos.
a great soul like yourself who egolessly eschews the frivollity of pointless discussion is a rare flowering in this cesspit of unconsciousness known as sannyas news.
Satya my friend,
sannyas-news rocks man! Without discussion or debate nothing happens, and with discussion and debate, nothing happens!
I love Sw. Anand Arun and Osho Tapoban, but I won’t condemn others who have their own understanding! Meditation is meditation and I’m sure Heraclitus does meditation, same with Frank and all on this board!
This whole discussion really is just one big joke, so laugh:
hahahaha!
mirror, miror, on the wall who is the most unconscious of them all?
as you say yourself amrito,
`osho is`
heraclitus and frank are he kind of failed hippies that arun told us about-they are early oshoites who abused their freedom and subsequently missed.
they are the past.
they a still having psychedelic sex in goa in 1975 and laughing gas parties that are happening only in their perverted imaginations.
“forget the past,it is not even worth remembering”-osho.
it is time to leave these losers who have missed far behind.
with a pure movement with true meditators like aaatmo,amrito,ramkrishna, and headed by arun, we can forge ahead and build a religion of super consciousness that can last a thousand years,maybe more,if we stay conscious enough…..
hey satya,
i can assure you that i am in no way a `failed hippie`.
i was a very `successful` hippie!
i got completely blasted and tripped out on the road for years,and never even got busted.
then found the one indian guru who was preaching sex,drugs and rock`n`roll.
good karma or what?
“There is no distance between master and disciple- there are only doubts”. – How does this sound?
Hey Satya, Cool down.. Cool down
All this anger is showing your own attitude, everyone has the right to express their feelings including you.
I don’t know the definition of true meditator and I do not want to be put in any class – of true or not true whatever…Regarding building a religion, oh! its so scary to even think about that. Yes, commune is a different thing… Sw Gyan Keerti’s Medissage in South Carolina is an ongoing huge commune in South Carolina. Wow! what a vision and courage. http://www.medissage.org. They are doing something for the 11 Dec celebration…., I heard
” super religion”
HAHAHAHA!
the joke continues!
thankyou ramakrishna.
but i think it should be clear by now that i do not need therapy.meditation has brought me past your petty concerns for decorum.
cool down?you should warm up.you like to sound cool and balanced but inside you are burning with rage.
and will you just sit by,as degenerate and pathetic drug-addled and probably brain-damaged wasters like frank and heraclitus,who are mentally stuck in the seventies,project their drugged up fantasies onto oshos dental visits to make themselves feel better about their sad addictions?
i will not.
and amrito,so now you think the search for truth is some kind of joke?maybe the nitrous oxide is getting to you too?or too many `doobies`?
you are beginning to sound like frank.
he and you should replace your pot-induced and girlish giggles with some meditative laughter in mystic rose or some laughter meditation with an experienced and qualified teacher.
hahahaa…so franks got some opinions, i dont think hez a bad guy tho !! Don’t be a fanatic Satya and cool it.
“girlish giggles”, lets not be against feminitiy either!
Satya wrote “it is time to leave these losers who have missed far behind.
with a pure movement with true meditators like aaatmo,amrito,ramkrishna, and headed by arun, we can forge ahead and build a religion of super consciousness that can last a thousand years,maybe more,if we stay conscious enough…..”
Dear Satya,
That’s where you miss Osho and Swami Arun. Nobody is a loser and nobody is a winner. Osho’s ship is infinitely spacious and everybody fits in. And lets not form a community of what you call “true meditators” atleast i would like to be excluded. Sw Arun would never agree to your, “lets create a true religion of super consciousness headed by Sw Arun.” Swami Arun has always emphasized over the fact that he is not a Guru, he is only an ardent lover of Osho. Swami Arun’s five suggestions are just methods through which the journey on the ship would be easier, its not a roadmap for a super religion. And also dont forget that Osho is for religiousness and not religion.
With all due respect to your understanding of the master.
Lots of love
Sw Aatmo Neerav.
Dear friends,
I found the discussion are quite appealing.
I do really agree with Sw. Aatmo Neerav, that we should encompass all human beings creating an energy of love and compassion as much as we can.
As we all are aware that people all over the world are mesh up with different sort of feelings and emotions in different situation and surrounding, and it is what they reflect the same over the society.
It is really hard to digest some views of dear friends like heracilitus though sound like factual for the new sannyasin like me. But, may be what he is playing with all of us intentionally or unintentionally to awaken us with his kind of understanding and experience he had all over to this date.
I feel really glad to pour my warm feelings and love for all through this forum.
Please ALL, do not misunderstand me tagging with different kind of conscious man
With love,
Sw. Shree keerti
Shree Keerti,
don worry about Heraclitus, he’s a really confused dude. Its a free forum and everybody has their freedom to express, even if its thier confusion.
If you scroll through heraclitus’ comments u will see what he has come up with after so many years of experience. Sheer Bluntness and ignorance. To spend so much energy in condemning something u haven’t experienced even once in ur life, i mean how ignorant can u be. And so consistently closed even to a grain of salt. This is not sticking to wut u stand for, its actually standing for wut u are stuck with, the long cherished ego.
If you read his comments on other pages for instance, in one he says:
“I have seen Tyohar, who is obviously somewhere with his energy, criticised for imitativeness and all sorts, on the old chatboard and on the noticeboard.Give a man due. He has created a commune, ecological in nature, and has his own way of working with energy. These are achievements enough for anyone, and he fully acknowledges and respects Osho.Those who criticise sannyasnews in this regard seem totally off the block, and not in touch with grass roots sannyas at all.”
And how he condemns Swami Arun, whose efforts have culminated into hundreds of Osho communes and centers, have inspired thousands of people into sannyas and to do Osho meditations ….. only shows his double standard hypocrisy.
Anyone with a bit of commonsense will be able to see this!
…….everyday i wake up at 5 and run around five miles, just to be at a small Osho meditation centre at 6:30, and then an hour of dynamic meditation….it has been continuing for wks after wks ; and not a single day has passed, when my eyes haven’t melted with overflowing tears of gratitude for my master ,Osho, who has given me this wonderful dynamic meditation….
i haven’t read much books by Osho and really don’t know much about Poona 1 or Poona 2 or Rajneeshpuram that many of my friends here frequently talk about…but a wonderful communion with my master , I find everyday ,just going from sounds to silence, and , bathing in his energy and bliss i would say , he still is around, swaying and dancing with me .…for those who have have read Osho all their life , read about his life in India and his life in Rajneeshpuram, I am sorry you have missed him…and its not too late. you had missed him when he was around you and you are still missing him because he is still around…
.i would look foolish trying to prove you all , as you all seem very intelligent and many of you seem to have been around Osho for many years but reading the comments here I feel like none of you , today, dance and sway with him, listen to him in the winds and the trees and feel his energy throbbing inside…..
and even greater is my love for Arun swamiji who accepted me into Osho a year ago and taught me dynamic meditation, he embraced me into Osho…. but, like everybody I had doubts at first…I doubted about my entering into some kind of an organized religion, tapoban, about the mala, about robes, and coming from years and years of vipassana meditation, I doubted about the energy and the meditations too…and soon I found myself dropping everything . I stopped going to Tapoban(commune in Kathmandu, Nepal),gave away my robes, dropped my mala , stopped doing dynamics and started a ‘ let go ‘ life…. Luckily after few weeks, I realized that my let go was the biggest repression I would ever have;, self imposed let go was very easy and the most ego satisfying thing, and the most subtle too….then I said to myself, I will start just dynamic meditation, no mala, no guru-worship, no robes, no Tapoban.…every morning as I started going , my love for mala started growing, my insight for color dragged me into a maroon robe, my gratitude for my master crossed my boundries , as I felt helpless to pay him back, crying at his feet(a picture of Osho) every morning and my love for arun swamiji, his immense love for my master Osho, his playfulness, the energy and passion with which he conducts his camps, his acceptance to me and to countless thirsty seekers who come to tapoban , this all dragged me back to tapoban…soon I found myself wearing a mala, doing dynamic med. everyday, listening to Osho everyday, telling my friends about Osho and meditations and going to tapoban once in a while meeting the sannyasin friends and singing in silence , moments of ecstacy growing easily everyday pulling me away and away from myself, everyday, towards unknown…recently I have come to know I have been following pancha sheels without knowing about them and I am sure , as you meditate, all these sheels(wrongly interpreted as disciplinary acts) will come by themselves, and believe me many more things will come too, you need some trust and some openness, Osho is still waiting with his hands wide open to pour, sooner or later we all will meet him and merge….
so beautifully expressed!
its very soothing and contagious, i am sure, a story of experience.
Thanks for posting!
Very beautiful. Thanks for sharing….
Oshoooooooooooooooooooooooooo
OSHO! (drumbeat) OSHO!! (drumbeat) OSHO!!!
I wrote earlier:
‘Without discussion or debate nothing happens, and with discussion and debate, nothing happens! ‘
I was wrong.
From such mud behind the discussion sw. dhyan saurav’s experiences sprout like a lotus.
Thank you,
Like Osho says, life is full of contradictions and only an idiot is purely consistent.
Amrito
wow.. nice discussion.. well, I was surprised to see my name in the discussion above (i.e. Sw. satya) .. it made me think about when did i post a comment in this article !! anyway.. then i thought again that it’s not me alone having the name “Satya”.. there are many.. just like the Sw. satya above.. mentally fluctuating person.. too serious about himself… come on .. cheer up .. have fun..
Before, I used to think .. why Sw. Arun is doing all this? Is he spreading Osho’s work/love or trying to be popular as a Guru individually?
There are so many comments for and against him.
But going deeper into meditation, I have realized that a compassion grows in you. A love grows in you for all the other people you see. You feel the pleasure/godliness after meditating and you want to share it with all the other people. You want them to experience the bliss that you feel and experience.
I feel the bliss in the dynamic meditation session every morning and i surely want to share it with everyone so that everyone could get benefited through it. I surely want to spread the information regarding dynamic meditation to everyone.
I think it is the similar case with Sw. Arun. He had been with Osho. He had experienced Osho’s Love directly. I see only love and compassion when he speaks about Osho.
Sw. Arun – An ardent Lover of Osho
Our love is always with you Swami Ji.. and of course.. Osho is there in every step you take..
With love,
Sw. Satya Dharma
ah yes,amrito,
the output of mud from these idiots has a certain consistency.
i feel so good that these others have missed,but we are not missing.
but we must be compassionate.they are the mud upon which our lotus grows.
they have missed that we might attain.
thankyou heraclitus and frank, you are the fertiliser for my ecstacy.
but i must stop here.
it could be that i am nourishing my ego here, as all discussion,as aaatmo rightly pointed out is nourishment for the ego.
so excuse me,i must go for my daily egoless nine mile run.
namaste.
my god!! Satya
u’ll neve stop putting urself on the higher pedastal, will you?
u said “i feel so good that these others have missed,but we are not missing.
but we must be compassionate.they are the mud upon which our lotus grows.
they have missed that we might attain.”
u r the one who seems to be missing the most. u can only grow from your own mud, stop thinking that anybody else can serve as the fertilizer of your ecstacy. U r in the biggest illusion!
—They are missing that you might attain??? -reality check- YOU are missing that u might attain, else u wud have already attained.
my god!! Satya
u’ll neve stop putting urself on the higher pedastal, will you?
u said “i feel so good that these others have missed,but we are not missing.
but we must be compassionate.they are the mud upon which our lotus grows.
they have missed that we might attain.”
u r the one who seems to be missing the most. u can only grow from your own mud, stop thinking that anybody else can serve as the fertilizer of your ecstacy. U r in the biggest illusion!
—They are missing that you might attain??? -reality check- YOU are missing that u might attain, else u wud have already attained…
I don’t understand what Sw. Satya is saying… Satya.. you are speaking very Asatya.. or only you understand what you say.. and it is true that your ego has been growing as the discussion continues in this article.. all the best for you egoless nine miles run.. go on running until you destroy your futile ego completely…
aaatmo,
my pedestal is the same as yours.
you have mentioned heraclitus` “bluntness,ignorance,hypocrisy,long cherished ego”.
you are standing high over him too!
and rightly so.the ego must be smoked out of its hole and destroyed at all costs.
enlightenment depends on it.
we surely agree here?
and satya dharma,i am sorry if you cannot handle the truth and
now you are judging my ego from your pedestal too!
i suggest you cathart a little harder in dynamic.you seem to have some ego stuck in your throat.
Satya,
I have mentioned it before also that
my understanding is that we are all on a horizontal continnum and when I say something to Heraclitus, i do it standing on the same line as he does. I do not claim of a superior religion with “pure seekers”. We are all Osho pepople and we say things to each other as Osho people.
When I am talking about your pedestal, i’m only commenting on the extremist approach that you show while commenting on other sannyasins. Otherwise i absolutely respect your “understanding” like i respect that of other people here.
Here is a small segment from the editorial of this years Osho Tapoban magazine which i think says it clearly wut i’m trying to say to u,
“The word infinity comes to mind also because the Osho experience leaves us at a loss of wods. Each individual has such a unique experience with Osho, that it becomes impossible to define the master-disciple relationship. Osho’s words too are so diverse, and often contradictory, that it becomes impossible to grasp any sense of consistency, thus compelling us to penetrate deeper -into his essence, an infinite essence. The world of Osho is one where contradictions exist, but not in opposition, where everything exisits in the affirmative. Where everything is recognized, embraced, comes alive. and thrives into fruition.”
Love
Neerav
i think I am only doing Gibberish here.. I don’t know what I am speaking and why I am speaking.. Not in a mood to say anything.. see u all later..
Dhyan Saurav,
I would like to hug you…:) and merge….
Can’t even remain silent without thanking you..
I have really missed the beauty of Dynamic Meditation for long time after I had taken sannyas and allow to kill my sheer energy with my own ignorance.
Only few days back I have started again..
Dear frens, its beautifully raining here when I am writing you..
Hope everybody is enjoying your own being there with the bond of love and fun with your family and frens on the auspicious occasion of this DASHAIN FESTIVAL.
Wish YOU ALL Happy Vijaya Dashami!
With joy and love,
shree keerti
Just to add that Ma Sheela was only a device, that for me although I didn´t like her (style too much!)came to simbolise the entry of womanhood in human consciousness! Reminding Us that the female is for Osho´s consciousness a reminder of that!The femenin within*!
She arrived tumbling all over the place just as a child will do in a toy shop!We´re still seeing the efcts of it,even in our politics today….US is just going through it and where from* Lord!
When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And when the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.
And when the night is cloudy,
There is still a light that shines on me,
Shine on until tomorrow, let it be.