The dance remains
On the old Sannyasnews chatboard there was once a thread of mine entitled:
What happens after sannyas?
I think it could also have been called:
What happens after Pune?
I started writing it when I realised that Number 17 was no longer, as it had long seemed, my obvious home.
So what does come after?
For me, what came was… wait for it… a resort.
Now (to paraphrase J D Salinger) if you really want to know about this resort, the first thing you’ll probably want to know is where it is and how it started and what it consists of, and all that kind of crap, but I don’t feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth.
And I really don’t need to go into all that crap, because if you want to know all that crap, just look at the website: www.the-rising-phoenix.com.
However, that will not tell exactly why this resort of mine, the Magic Beach Resort, in Accra, Ghana, follows Osho Resort.
Best of all would of course be to come visit, see for yourself.
Come!
You will soon notice, at the highest point, raised above the dance floor, the words Dance… until the dancer disappears and only the dance remains. (Osho’s words; his instructions for Nataraj, unless I remember wrongly.)
Significant words. I long equated the dancer with ego, and the dance with existence.
But another way to read the words is to equate the dancer with form, and the dance with formlessness. And that long thread on the Sannyasnews chatboard was written to discard all outdated forms of sannyas, leaving only essence…
Let us move on from the dance floor. My office is in one corner. There I will explain to you how I want to develop the Rising Phoenix further into a focus for conscious discovery and evolution, operating, alongside/within the obvious beach resort, as a ‘Subtle School’ visible to those with eyes to see. I will tell you I hope to do this partly by creating parties, performances, and other events on and around the dance floor; partly by building a spa for physical well-being; and partly by attracting new collaborators to craft other offerings (for instance, such as once gave shape to daily life in Pune).
This project has already started, but the beach front premises are spacious, and there is room for much more.
Currently, our main bunch of ‘seekers’ are local Rastafarians, whose vegetarianism at least suits me. Some claim to be attuned to my work, though I am not always sure. In any case we have many other visitors from around the world, some with the eyes to see what I seek to reveal.
Now leave the office, wander outside the gate. You will soon see a large and very busy church. Christianity is overpowering in Ghana, the main fabric of spirituality, the dominant provider of social life. This is still a challenge for me after six years. Having said that, many of its practices – the gibberish (talking in tongues), the dancing, the casting out of spirits – bear an uncanny resemblance to what happened in and around Buddha Hall!
After inspecting me, my premises, and the outside world, I suspect that you, dear visitor, might, given the heat of the tropics, be in need of a drink. What better place to relax over a chilled fresh juice than our cliffside summer hut, overlooking the semi-private beach and the ancient fishing harbour?
Take the menu in your hands. There you will find the following texts. The first describes the Subtle School as it is today; the second is a mission statement.
The subtle school
The subtle school is to be found in many places, for instance: in the yoga classes and massage sessions; in the artworks all around; in the words above the dance floor; in those you encounter here, in their words, their smiles, their movements, their dance; and within yourself.
The workings of this school may be sensed rather than known. The school cannot be contained in words or in a curriculum or in a subject matter. It transcends all, transcends itself and yourself.
So look above the dance floor.
The dancer too is transcended and disappears.
Only the dance remains.
Mission statement
If you leave happier than when you came, we will be happy too.
If you open your eyes to beauty while you are here,
and if you let that beauty infuse you and inspire you,
and if in that inspiration you see deeper into the truth,
and if then a new intelligence awakens…
Then the phoenix is fulfilled.
Phoenix
myopenspace@yahoo.co.uk
www.the-rising-phoenix.com.
Are you still going to reveal intimate details of your relationship with your Ghanaian wife, without her knowing, Phoenix?
That’s what a ‘real ‘first world seeker’ does, I suppose – in the ‘third world’….
Lesson for 17, Koregaon Park, Pune
Resorts, beautiful resorts can be created with money, passion, entrepreneurship. This resort the-rising phoenix looks so soothing from its Internet site.
One does not need a unique mixture of Enlightened master and the dancing disciples for the Resorts Inc. Pvt. Ltd.
Time to take the Burqa away from the full glory of 17, Koregaon Park- the place is for meditative pilgrimage for religoon less seekers.
meditative pilgrimage for religionless seekers my also be conducted by computer while slobbering at the mouth like stephen hawkins with cheap deals on pork-pies from aldi being the modus operandi of CEO of new vision of enlightenment pvt ltd inc which may be reached by expression of excrement from both ends together–truth works-resulting in large accumulation of crap in holy underpants cum chuddies now,like mind completely full to overflowing like milk from bra of south indian saint …
then from sense of dedication and duty to the master,no 17 kp it is my self-imposed vocation,as squelching in chuddies proclaiming to the world….
“the world is a shit-house”—
Religionless agnostics have no God, no hell, no heaven.
Are they so fearless?
May be not.
Big business corporations are the new religions. The immediate boss can be an angle or the devil.
CEO like a god, gives Darshan once in a while.
and fear of losing the job, Oh… God, is this the hell?
Two buddhist monks, one old and one young, are crossing the forest. They reach a big river, see a young woman standing undecided on the bank.
The old monk hoists her onto his back, the two monks wade across the river, the young woman climbs off thankfully at the other side, and continues her journey east. The monks silently continue west.
But after an hour the young monk explodes. He shouts at the other ‘what are you doing? You know we are not supposed to touch women!’
‘Are you still carrying that young woman?’ comes the calm reply. ‘I put her down an hour ago.’
satya deva, are you still carrying my wife three years later? I am getting on with my work.
but if big business has the big boobs like ceo of multi-national religionless religion amma,papa,inc pvc ltd,how many mangos will be sucked from mangotree in 69 position by ex-christian missionaries in the koreagaon park pvc…?
And don’t forget the influence of the frozen beef pie,
Frank, Have you drowned Anand, your altered ego in the Brighton sea?
or like the Travesties of Thailand beaches ….once in a while you intend to bring your female charms out.
Since few years resort has two set of entry rates.
Western pay around 750 rupees per day.
Indians, even when they have accumulated ten times more property pay almost half of the price.
I am thinking in the new mystery school at Pune, which will rise as a Phoenix, to create one more price category.
Entry rate for hard headed western will remain the same. Soft hearted western will pay like the Indians, half the price.
How one can find out the difference between the two.
Some kind of ECG will be done or what?
No, a simple question at the end of the registration form. ” Have you come for meditative holidays to de-stress your mind
or
have you come to allow the mystery of Oshofield to touch your heart?
It is not important for everybody in the west to learn something from the east.
But those who have the inclination, why should not they get some flowers on their path!
“Discrimination, Discrimination…Lick my ass…”, screamed somebody like Frank, the Bubbie.
facts are not so important -the truth works.
if the ceo of large enterprise eats beef pie,then leaving the university,the professor will become a guru,and a man sitting at the computer in his chuddies cum holy underpants full of religious crap,out of compassion for the masses of people on spiritual path interested in enlightenment he will share the contents of his crap-filled underpants cum chuddies following commands of osho.
Wilson’s Law of Commercial Marketing Strategy – As soon as you find a product that you really like, they will stop making it.
(Osho Ashram, comes in the mind)
Doctors’ Law – If you don’t feel well, make an appointment to go to the doctor, and by the time you get there you’ll feel better. But don’t make an appointment, and you’ll stay sick.
(Disciples law)
Law of Logical Argument – Anything is possible if you don’t know what you are talking about.
(material suppliers at sannyasnews)
Brown’s Law of Physical Appearance – If the clothes fit, they’re ugly.
( People who are crazy about Advaita)
The Coffee Law – As soon as you sit down to a cup of hot coffee, your boss will ask you to do something which will last until the coffee is cold.
( This is Zen boy, day after day. Don´t freak out)
Oliver’s Law of Public Speaking – A closed mouth gathers no feet.
( But it brings enlightenment. Sannyasins have more such people than the bank accounts in Leichtenstein)
Thanks to jeevan for the circulatory mail.
Her jokes will be now available at-
http://www.oshonews.com
category of seekers coming to smell flowers but smelling large pile of shit from spirituall underwear will be entitled to 750 rupees refund from messenegers of the master undergoing ECT,and problems ensuing from split personilties namaste dankeshoen
biryani bratwust aldi kwark barfi amma kartoffel guru gobi achtung
osho`s commands must be obeyed at all times.
s.p. where’s alter ego, forest dumpster? talk about trash recycling!!!
Very Good Mr. Mr. 420 Frankanand, go on…
Bubbie is back from his daily wage work.
Or you are working for Google`?
As a creative endevaour, frank you deserve a big applause for creating two smooth indentities exactly opposite to each other.
I am sure Bubbie will miss the rotten eggs throwing game with Anand, and i will not be able to entertain him during his German visit.
If you are not willing to bring Anand back from Coma, we can create a virtual death celebration for him with famous Osho songs of 80´s and 90´s.
After that period there are only Mantra singing.. nothing like home is where the heart is.. my heart is with you.
Khush Raho… Khush Rakho
(be happy make others happy)
`tis nought good to let a sleepyng hound awayke
(let sleeping dogs lie)
Missing me Poop Bubbie,
Haven’t got your candies today…. Here it is
Bubbie the red neck asshole
Had a very swolen ass,
And if you ever smell him,
you would even say it gas,
All of the other Sannaysin
used to laugh and call him names.
They never let poor Bubbie
join in any games.
Then one foggy Christmas Eve
Santa came to say:
“Bubbie with your ass so swollen,
won’t you ride my cock tonight?”
Then some other ex sannayisns loved him
as some other continue to pee,
Bubbie the red neck asshole,
you’ll go down in history!
!!!Hallelujah!!!
Osho Quote from the inaguration issue of Oshonews.com
“Each sannyasin will be a totally unique person. I am not interested in the society. I am not interested in the collectivity. My interest is absolutely in the individual, in you!”
“Let your own awareness decide your lifestyle, life-pattern. Don’t allow anybody else to decide it. That is a sin: to allow anybody else to decide it. Why is it a sin?—because you will never be in it. It will remain superficial, it will be hypocrisy.”
what good are osho quotes when the person posting them is a sleeping fool.
what good are osho quotes when the person posting them is a sleeping fool.
If some awakened person posts these quottaions, People like Al-Bubbie still get Piles in their brain.
It is very much possible a person in coma goes on thinking. ” everybody else is sleeping.”
Some original from a sleeping fool-
Don´t complain others are sleeping. If you are awake, please, bring the garbage bags out.”
See and feel the compassion of life. If someone like You(me) could get awake, how easy it is for existance to awake others.
When i see many of the awakened ones speaking, their acts and deeds, i say to myself, stay under the blanket.
If this is the ultimate evolution of men, why not long just to be a Cow-
Eating grass drinking water, giving milk and once you die, beautiful shoes are made from you.
This is life, well lived.
This is not Osho Commune or Osho Sannyains Article
Why sannyasnews is afraid to discuss about the only one real Osho Commune that is being made now ??
This is a Revolution idea to make Osho available for Free to all Sannyasins
http://www.oshococom.com
Our sannyas world is strange and afraid of Truth and reject Truth like they reject Bhagwan in beginning.
Truth is always rejected and a Buddha will always be Misunderstood. History repeats itself just like Unconcious Sannyasins
why dont you just go and beat the doppelganger off with a hairbrush and ask him why he said he was meditating in the himalayas when he was in an irish pub in london?
Prakash, I followed the link and it all looks cool to me, but why your need to proclaim ‘the only one real Osho Commune’?
I’m not very clued up on such things because it is beyond my realm of interests but such language is off-putting, because it sounds like you are in competion and defending something. The simple fact that you feel that you need to defend something indicates that your ego is tied up with the story. No big deal. Just thought I’d mention it. Good luck with your project.
Oh yes, the hair brush incident with Shakti. Any more news from her Shantam? You know, intimate and juicy details.
warp factor nine,captain
beat me off,shakti….
I mean Real Osho Commune because it is the First to offer Osho for Free without any money exploitation like the Poona Resort which is charging even for Air.
Just in Poona Resort 10 rupees for Soya Sauce and Tabasco sauce in their resturant. Such parasites and blood suckers this Poona Resort
will hairbrushes and guiness be free?
Oh, I see, Prakash. But Number 17 has always been a source of revenue. God might not be for sale but everything else is. Why bother getting upset about it? I mean to say Osho wasted millions on his fleet of cars. Perhaps his messge was…. Well, you figure it out and let me know what you think his message was. That is if you care to.
A baby in the belly and well wishers are predicting,
New Osho Gandhi is on the way.
Such is the excitement or desperation.
Osho for free at some place, Osho at five star price at some where else, oneness of life is also somewhere in South India, purpose is the same.
beloved God.. don´t destroy the earth in 2012. We have just opened the shop; Please please please.
What these people will do in 2013?
If earth goes up like a dew drop evaporating, no body is there to read or listen the news.
If it survives, many will come forward to say.. it is because of them.
Only the awakends have the right to bribe the God*
Oh dear,
Only God is for Sale but nobody has guts to buy Him with His terms and conditions. Everything else is just for fun sake from birth till death.
Alas, the contractors (Thekedars) Male and females of all Religions should have a little sense of truthfulness. All bloody faque Guru, now a day, in the market, are reported in the media with big Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Bentley, RR, Sex scandals, Land grabbing and with illegal activities with the connivance of the politicians and high ranking officials are exploiting the public in the name of Religions and are speaking just rotten stuff of thousands of years old. Virtually, they have spoiled the society.
chinmaya
bloody gurus
in the media
having sex
driving rolls royces
going to america
getting land
telling obcene jokes
making fun of religion
having fun from birth till death
it`s a bloody disgrace.
HAHAHA … Chinmaya dear couldnt help that
Gyaan Prakash … l can suggest you chinese restaurants in Koregaon park where you can get soya sauce / tabasco for free .. let me know
also,a little of tabasco on the end of the hairbrush for added zzing…..
and dont forget tabasco in guinness,very popular recipe amongst the indian/irish community.
it`s good for you!
I tried the tabasco hairbrush recipe and now my tibura looks all red and swollen…instructions please. It is starting to burn. The engines’ill no take it.
it`s enlightenment jim
but not as we know it….
Try mango juice!
Yes Osho sepnt money as he created it himself.
I can understand this much.
But the Inner Circle Resort Managers do not own this money that they are charging and only putting in their own pockets and are against all sannyasins.
The Resort Managers should give money for all sannyas centers worldwide
Also profits from Osho books should go to sannyas movement worldwide.
Then it is fair for all as Osho is not personal property of Jayesh and Gang
And Dilruba and others only complaint of Resort charges and Gate pass cost.
They complaiin of money hungery Resort Gang
And with no solution but only Complaints.
When Osho Cocom is giving a real answer with Action that speaks louder than words to the sannyas world.
So Dilruba you go and pay 10 rupees for soya sauce and tabasco with your bosses of the Resort in their special resturant and enjoy your blood being sucked and stop complain again against Resort bloodsuckers. You all just complain and when you see someone like Rajneesh giving answer you do not even see it. Which makes you all who complain against Resort hypocrites only.
And Especially for Dilruba
Even the cheapest resturant in INdia or even the World do not charge 10 rupees for Soya Sauce or Tabasco.
The Gourmet Resturant in the Osho Resort are special bloodsuckers.
I also heard that they charge 20 rupees for empty glass if you buy Wine there. As one friend bought bottle of Wine and want to share with friends and the Osho resturant asked him to pay 20 rupees for each empty Wine glass so friends can share the Wine.
This is Osho compassion and Resort ” a place for meeting friends ” and haviing blood sucked.
You all are suckers and blood suckers like Dilruba who support the Resort charge of 10 rupees Soya Sauce and ask me to go to Poona resturant for free Soya Sauce. This is how stupid you all are here. And cannot see this bloodsucking people.
Gyaan Prakash .. if you buy me a room in Cocom .. l will pay everyday Rs 20 for your soya sauce / tabasco … whenever you come to Poona resort
Actually i heard that you are a very close friend of Swami Rajneesh and went to see him many times in his Poona house. Also your friends have already bought their cottage in Cococm
So why are you asking me for room there ??
Do you not know Swami Rajneesh personally ??
Have not your friends bought Cottage there ?
Why are you hiding this ??
And what i say is to show you how bloodsuckers work.
And it is not question of money but how they suck blood from lovers os Osho.
If you get a better deal .. from the ” other suckers ” …you can go ahead …. but if you come to Poona please call me or give a message on FB … l will keep the soya sauce / tabasco … ready for you … Gyaan Prakash are you Chinese by any chance ?
Are you not a personal friend of Swami Rajneesh ??
Are you hiding something by chance ??
Yes lam friend of his … and my friends have bought a room there … and why should l hide …
are you chinese ?Gyaan Prakash …
OK good to know you are a friend of Swami Rajneesh.
And i am just Punjabi Indian. Punjabi never eat Soya or Tabasco especially now.
OK Dear … wish you all best for your Journey
Oh dear,
Only God is for Sale but nobody has guts to buy Him with His terms and conditions. Everything else is just for fun sake from birth till death.
Alas, the contractors (Thekedars) Male and females of all Religions should have a little sense of truthfulness. All bloody faque Guru, now a day, in the market, are reported in the media with big Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Bentley, RR, Sex scandals, Land grabbing and with illegal activities with the connivance of the politicians and high ranking officials are exploiting the public in the name of Religions and are speaking just rotten stuff of thousands of years old. Virtually, they have spoiled the society.
Nobody can compete the originality and orating power of OSHO on any subject. Once He starts – What is God – it will go for three hours or more. Likewise, on all subjects. And this is not hearsey, it is my personal presence experience. Within a span of sixteen to seventeen years of his time spent for the welfare of our soul, from his body age of 42 till his body departs amidst sanyasins.
In a way, He has created a lot of employment, for the coying Preachers, Printers and Publishers for the publication of Hisbooks, clothiers, heavy rush to local Restaurants/Hotels/Trains/Planes/Rental accommodation and property business people etc..
Auto people used to say, when Osho went to USA, that now they will die with meagre earnings, in the absence of His presence and sanyasins.
Some people have the habits to go on criticizing in one way or the other. Nobody can stop them. It is good for the good of their health and helps work as gibberish. They can see a little black point in full plain white paper, which was created by contemporary Gurus/preachers in the market.
The “Inner Circle” was mandated to make Osho fully available in a non-interfering and practical way.
So what is on offer then? Osho was certainly a changing phenomenon. In some stages he was more like Amma, and at other times he was embodying the essence of Krishnamurti. Yes Osho moved across the full spectrum of spirituality in both theory and practice. It is interesting to note that when the West was indulging in the free love movement of the 70’s Krishnamurti maintained his steady dull tack, and was a spiritual outcast as a result. On the other hand Osho just so happened to develop his views and practices into a form that merged ever so neatly with the free love hippy movement. Perhaps it was just a coincidence rather than a cosmic accident or divine providence. Osho became immensely popular as a result. Of course the 70’s finished after ten years, and as the years rolled by the ever so sweet revolution of love and godliness turned sour – no doubt things like AIDS and rampant corruption made hefty contributions. In the end Osho again changed his style. Some would say that he embodied a Zen style in the last years.
Can anything be drawn from this temporal or chronological analysis? Is there any delimiting marks that define these changes in style? Or is it perhaps just our minds that like to impose an understanding on a wise being? Was there a hidden order within all the grand disorder, and is this then to be furthered or nurtured?
Is there anything in the argument that Osho was refining his vision? If yes, then even though there is a practical mandate, that mandate is surely to maintain his greatest and final masterpiece, and offer this prize to the world. Nonetheless we have that Zen embodies devotion, and that Osho, in theory and practice, still demonstrated a deeply inherent thread of devotion – even till the very end.
Anyhow, if there is a dividing line, where is it. Actually and more accurately, when was it. If there was a line that brought in the silent Zen revolution, then surely there were other lines to. Osho was at one stage a free love guru. He also at times was entirely in accordance with Krishnamurti in that any form of relationship that puts another being above you is destined for failure. Yet he was also for a time a mainstream Indian feet kissing guru.
So where are these demarcations? Also, if Zen is right, then these previous periods of evolution (prior to each revolution) must be in some way wrong. Logically, this must go in order such that his first utterances and actions after enlightenment were the most wrong. This seems a little counter intuitive. Surely, even if you support this view of refinement, he was post enlightenment always pretty much ‘right’. Surely his earlier discourses are full of wisdom as opposed to utter trash.
Yes he refined certain meditations and meditative therapies, and then offered the final version, but the same is hard to draw about other aspects of Osho, including (and especially) his discourses. What about another key issue, namely the celebrations of certain days. What about his birthday? What about Christ-mass? What about New Years eve, or even the Chinese new year?
At one stage he was a typical feet kissing guru. Yet later on he stopped or at least reduced such typically devotional physical contact from seekers. Presumably there were also gradual changes in the way certain days were celebrated. I would assume that the Indian calendar was full of special occasions for Bhagwan Rajneesh when he was a (relatively) typical Indian style guru. The free love 70’s (Western style hippie genre) I would guess saw a reduction in popularity and frequency of such occasions. Still it would have been deeply present, as though the hippies loved each other a lot, they also loved their Master a lot too.
The funny thing about The Ranch is that for the most part Osho was in isolation and seclusion. After The Ranch disaster his last years are argued to be more in Zen style. As previously stated there are nonetheless striking and regular occurrences of Osho initiated devotion, right to the very last. However I would say that a fair analysis will find that the style and timing of celebration days had changed compared with the past eras of pre-Pune and Pune I. I assume that there were no great lines of devotees waiting to kiss his feet during Pune II.
So what happens when Osho leaves the body? Obviously it should not be that the original form of dynamic be adopted by one or another faction. Osho introduced and then refined different meditations and therapies. He made this clear. The final versions of his different mediations and therapies are Osho end products. What to say then of for example celebration days, his pictures, or indeed associated devotional practices such as foot and marble kissing?
What to say also of his discourses? Osho praised Chirstianity and then he condemned it. He did this on all variety of subjects. Osho was deeply controversial and highly contradictory. One day he would say one thing, then next the opposite. One year he would praise one ideology, the next year he would condemn it. One year he was a feet kissing Indian guru, the next year he was a sex guru. Of course some years down the track he more or less tried to take away the ‘sex’ label entirely. Certainly I personally like this or that about Osho, but can anything be said to be actually this or that (or right or wrong or whatever)?
The practical mandate of the “Inner Circle” is to preserve and make available. Some people like to get together and have a party on New Years Eve. It would seem therefore a good practical management decision to have a big bash at the resort on the night. Lots of people come and get a taste of Osho. What then of the Indian Master’s day. What indeed about Osho’s other notable days? If no one wants to come then sure, no point. Yet it is very clear that this is not the case. On the surface this seems strange. Lots of people coming to the resort to get a taste of Osho, or to go deeper with Osho. What’s the problem?
The problem is that this may encourage the kind of devotion that either Osho was not really into, or that he gradually moved away from over the course of his enlightened life. Either Osho despised such practices yet accepted feet kissing losers for the sake of numbers and hope for salvation of their lost souls, or Osho gradually refined his approach and devotion was not part of the pure metal essence. Also, the “Inner Circle” has a practical mandate, and this is to offer the essential teachings and practices of Osho. Anything other then this core offering is in the realm of the subjective or superfluous. Either it is philosophical or non-essential. You see either way we have it that the marble kissing, picture gazing devotees are out of luck. This was either pre-70’s and therefore out of date, or it was clearly being gradually diminished over the few decades of his offerings. Sure there were still pictures on the walls of the ashram at the time of Osho leaving the body, but were they not there either as a legacy of a past era or as the reflection of a wayward seeker’s neediness. Is not the same for the personal celebration days of Osho’s?
Osho did not put the pictures up personally I assume, but did he explicitly or implicated support this? Was he as usual detached and uninvolved? Was it that he opposed such measures yet was at times ignored? Perhaps it was like when he requested the act of physical touching his feet to be stopped. Now obviously we do not have to worry about that issue specifically, but does it point a way forward?
If Osho had a stroke and was dumb and mute, what would happen if some old devotees wanted to touch his feet? This is an example of a devotional practice that Osho clearly allowed, and then clearly stopped. Did he do the same with other devotional practices? If feet kissing became popular in the West would Osho have again commenced the practice?
I would say that in general nothing clear will ever be ascertained with this general line of questioning. Sure there appears to be a trend if you like to plot points on a graph, but short of Osho making anything clear this is not helpful. The question of whether Osho was in a process of refinement or whether he was changing according to social and cultural trends will never be answered on his behalf.
Devotion is a faux pas in recent times, but what if it becomes popular again. What if it becomes the main-stream again? Is it that the resort should stubbornly maintain a New Years Eve bash with no takers, and have throngs of devotees outside the closed gates for Master’s day – with a pre-70’s devotional discourse burnt at the podium to mark the occasion?
Osho made it clear that he was refining his meditations. He did not make clear that the same is the case with respect to his ideological tenants. Also, the thread of devotion weaved its way through Osho from beginning to end. It was deeply present even in the so-called Zen era of Pune II- in the ashram, in Osho’s actions, in his discourses, and perhaps most importantly, in his people. To say that devotion was in general decline of the years may be an oversight. I would say that more accurately the devotional dimension became less and less obvious. To draw from this that subtle elements of devotion are less important than overt ones is a tough call.
Amma has her great devotees and Krishnamurti told them to all get lost. The same cannot be said of Osho. He moved all over the religious spectrum. I would also say that you cannot plot the graph of overt devotion to be gradually declining (with respect to time) anyhow. Requesting that his ashes be placed under his bed and for people to come and meditate there is to me his last great offering, and it is of a devotional type. So how does that work? The graph goes down gradually for a few decades and then bounces up at the last? What is the trajectory of such a path?
Westerner’s and Western leaning locals like a good New Years party. Great, so have a party. What about if a small percentage of the 1.3 billion Chinese people start taking to the crazy guy? If they become the majority visitor at the resort presumably the Chinese new year will be the biggest event on the calendar.
Why is the resort closed at night time? There are a lot of night owl insomniac Osho sannyassins I am sure. If they become sufficient in number then the gates may not close at night. The decisions made in this regard is of course a practical one. The same can only ever be with any other decision involving certain dates or timing. Some people take exception to Osho’s birthday in the same way that others take exception to Christ-mass or Easter. They are welcome to not attend church but they do not have the right to stop others attending if it is their inclination.
If Osho sannyassins would like to come to the Osho space in Koregaon Park on one of Osho’s notable days then what practical reason is there to not cater for there needs? Even up until 2000 or so, throngs of people would weave there way through Osho’s Samadhi and bedroom on auspicious days. Sure people can come and meditate at the regular times. However the facility enhancement and corresponding price hikes have meant that the space is becoming less and less accessible (including for Westerners). Also, if you were to come on a special day (that is special to you), your needs are not catered for. There is in fact a general and pervasive culture of shunning certain special interest groups.
It is true that the price of entrance and pricing in general reflect the cost structure of the current ‘business’. I also see no reason why the needs of financial well off people not be catered for. However there is no reason why this should exclude people from less fortunate financial backgrounds.
The resort is making Osho more and more unavailable to seekers with less financial resources. I see this as an infringement on the intrinsic objective of making Osho available to all seekers. If I, as a devotional type person, would like to visit Osho’s meditation bedroom, then I do not see why I should drain my limited financial resources to support an outrageously expensive pyramid or a new fitness club. It seems clear that Osho wanted an enclosed meditation auditorium, with water entirely surrounding it. Still, the enclosed meditation space could have been built for a fraction of the actual price (if differently designed). This was a practical decision that is part of a general strategy that is inevitably reflected in a general pricing that alienates people other then the financially well off.
You see here we have the same merry go round circus of arguments again. In the early days Osho was free, or after a time, at least you could visit his ashram for a nominal charge. Current management will tell you straight off that Osho was against the begging mentality of Indian spirituality and that he was a rich person’s guru. They can even give you a few quotes to back it up.
So Pune I was a bargain. Then have a look at how much it cost if you wanted to involve yourself in emotionally and financially draining Ranch. Presumably therefore the reasoning is that this is a process of refinement? The movement then shifted from a ranch that demanded outrageous financial contributions (that were sunk into criminality), to a Pune II that was pretty cheap by any standard. Actually this was the case for the entire decade of the 90’s (after Osho left the body). It was the most recent heavy financial investment in resort like facilities that triggered the price rises.
You cannot draw anything from Osho’s discourses, or from plotting a graph of price versus time, and gain anything from it. (This is the same as the previously pointed out futile exercise of trying to plot a graph of devotion versus time, or to understand the nature of Osho’s understanding and expression of devotional qualities). Osho never left any clear defining standard to follow in this regard. In other words, without any clear instructions, the management must fall back on its basic operating precept. That is, it simple needs to take steps to make the ‘resort’ as available to as many people as possible. Again I repeat that to build an enclosed sound-proof space, or to cater for the wealthy does not mean that people from other financial backgrounds need be excluded or compromised.
Perhaps all the devotional type Osho sannyassins and not actually legitimate. Who determines such immaterial matters? The central point is that all of that which comprises ‘Osho’ is to be preserved (as much as is practically possible), protected, and made available. No practical decision can be made to destroy anything of Osho’s – of course over time there will be physical decay, and this needs to be addressed. No practical reason can be given to deny some aspect of Osho that a seeker would like to imbibe.
One of the central pillars in Osho’s vast archive of treasures is that of devotion. The central position of the current “Inner Circle” is that it is offering the core of Osho, and has removed the unnecessary devotional baggage of needy seekers. Osho is simply his discourses and meditations. He is not about marble kissing and picture gazing. Essentially this logic is right if you personally want to set up your own centre accordingly. However as the “Inner Circle” there is a responsibility to offer all the dimensions of Osho, and hence the discourses that either touch on or focus on such matters (in a positive way) should be given equal preference with any other topic.
Another important point here is that the Koregaon Park ashram was where Osho was living. So in a sense he left behind more than audio recordings and meditation instructions. In some sense he left a building in Lao Tzu that contained a room with a bed containing his ashes, and a number of other structures and land. He had pictures and clothes and all sorts of other material things.
So again, uniquely in Pune, the “Inner Circle” had an additional responsibility. They had to look after some basic physical things. It is not a question of what to do with a pagoda or a Samadhi or whatever, based on your view of Osho’s tendencies with respect to devotion. This is nothing to do with the matter. The fact of the matter is that there are (were) physical things in existence.
It may be that some sannyassins a drawn to these physical things. It may be for reasons you either dislike or do not understand. That is irrelevant. There is an entrance gate and it was mandated with an open invitation to any and all seekers on the path, and there are physical things that have always been available to any interested seeker. In this way, there is no plausible grounds for changing such affairs. Of course you may let a building decay until it becomes a health and safety risk, and then get it destroyed because it is condemned. I think even this passive non-interference seeks to subjugate a clear implicit responsibility to protect and preserve.
Have a nice day!
testing 101 … recieved …
Nice to hear from Abhay. On which galaxy have you got the water purification contract?
How much is ten rupees in Euros?
Shantam, any chance of reigniting the Rajneesh hair brush story. My tibura is burning.
Shantam .. Use some chyavanprash … my friend Swati jus called from Dharamshala … she said its good everything
The friend who has bought the room in Cocom is also with her .. taking care of her .. she had a bad accident .. may she and we all get well soon
Rajneesh is in spain … just saw his page on FB
Maybe he is coming to Ibiza. He’ll go down a bomb here.
Chavanprash, the herbal sweet cream is good for something, but to say it is good for everything, is as good as Auerveda good for Aids treatment^, as the energy generated by some neo guru good for saving the drowning Ocean!
Lokesh 10 rupees in are euqal to 13-15 cents depending on curreny fluctuations.
To critiicse the five star comforts at 17, Kregaon Park on these grounds simply shows, people are tyring to learn basic Physics with their primary school teacher.
when the sannyas world has been over loaded with books audios and dance, sit and shit silently meditation techniques.
The need of some person to love or hate is quite an important human ingredient.
It is like dalai Lama getting the same footage with long dead Buddha.
Or saint like Bin laden in his photos getting more media coverage than the founder.
SO few faces are emerging at sannyas scene too, grils are deciding how they will renovate their new rooms, when Sarah Palin will built her first commune at ALASKA.
15 cents for a soya milk! And people think that is a big deal? Down here in Ibiza, people pay 12 euros for a 300ml bottle of drinking water in a nightclub they paid 50 euros to enter and guess what?….they think they are having a good time.
Shantam .. ya probably you are right … l just mentioned it .. but nothing serious … maybe you can try Acriflx burn cream
Lokesh .. you can check for youself if you need to
http://www.oshorajneesh.net/Osho_Rajneesh_Meditation_Camps_Events.htm
people worldwide can`t wait to get spiritual enlightenment from a guy who gets his kicks being beaten off with a hairbrush…
and i think to myself..
what a wonderful world….
standin on a corner
hairbrush in my hand
shakti`s in her corset,brian`s in his vest
and me, i`m a rock `n` roll godman…
(apologies to lou)
from the park of koregaon
to the woods of yucatan
from bombay to byron bay
over the hills and far away…
hit me with your rhythm stick
hit me ,hit me.
je t`adore,ich liebe dich
hit me with your rhythm stick
das ist gud,c`est fantastique..
hit me with your rhythm stick
hit me slow,hit me quick
hit me,hit me,hit ME !!!!!!!!!!…
l have recieved a message on my cell ( probably some promotional advertisement ) which says
” Arihant Superstructues ltd touched a new high .. of Rs 100 .. thank you for being a part of the journey & achieving a milestone ” …. had to shrare with you all .. bowing down in gratitude to the whole ( hole ) of existence
sounds like shantam has got a job at last,
as a phone-basher…
or maybe a tibura – basher
A Tibura – basher….where where?
It is not the price of the rice, which decides the level of prosperity of a city/ country or a family.
It is the ATTITUDE, which makes the finer distinction between rich and poor….
richness of a mystical master of inner dimension are measured with the rupees-doller fluctuancy rates of the last 20 years. I think Fedral Castro is a right person to bring Osho seekers on the line.
(not serious, jus joking)
Shoe, eggs hurled at former British PM Tony Blair in Dublin
Wish to be there in Dublin.
Read more: Shoe, eggs hurled at former British PM Tony Blair in Dublin – UK – World – The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/Shoe-eggs-hurled-at-former-British-PM-Tony-Blair-in-Dublin/articleshow/6491926.cms#ixzz0yZGTA6WJ
old brian “beat me off shakti” the doppelganger
was probably just round the corner enjoying a pint of guinness …
and then down to nighttown to get a good whacking from molly malone with her tabasco-laced rhythm stick….
ah,the luck `o the irish…
may the road (and the hairbrush) rise up to meet you,brian…
he`ll probably run into dave o`shana,another guru with irish roots down there getting his tibura tabasco-ed by some devoted disciples on their knees…
Prem abhay l can feel your pain ……… Chareveti Chareveti
i can feel brian rajneesh`s pain,too.
tthwaaackkkk….
buttocks as red as a baboon.
ouch!!
there was once a baboon ..
who never saw a mirror ..
and so didnt know ..
who he is …
so kept calling others a baboon …
and what happened then….?
then one day someone showed …
him the mirror …
so he decided …
he must have his own jungle ..
where there would be no mirrors …
and so all the baboons ..
who dont like being called a baboon …
got together and will soon ..
live happilly ever after ………
i like it.
it sounds like a cross between “animal farm” and “jungle book”
with a bit of” lord of the flies” thrown in…
is there a choice
how do you mean?
the ending?
it`s an indian story,so it probably wont have a clear ending…
like rk narayan.
Ya .. l guess
or maybe the baboon will one day stumble into a hall of mirrors,maybe a bit like osho`s dental room in samadhi and,surrounded by infinite reflections of his own red buttocks he will…… ……..
that would be interesting
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quite so.
now l know every bitch has her day too .. after seeing the day’s posts … well .. l enjoyed it
Yeah, but now Lord of the Baboons is giving satsang in Tamil Nadu.
Frank is suffering from hallucinations to his mind.
Anand is a creation of Osho, not of Frank Somebody.
Too muck English beer dear friend.
I have been out on a limb for a tour to the West Coast seeking for foot prints of Bubbie, but he left no trace.
Met a woman in Vegas, who said she knew him from a show downtown, he was trying to sell some weed and offered the services of his goat, but then disappeared.
Maybe North to the Mormon cities. Or maybe his car broke down and he took the bus to Seattle.
Anyway I got tired of looking for him and went further west to Marin and had some of the nice Napa wines there.
So Frank don’t fool yourself.
Some adherents would say Osho’s words are still contemporary, and are always timeless. Other ‘sincere’ sannyasins will disagree and say his message will not really be understood (by the masses) for centuries to come. They can even give you an Osho quote to back it up, and explain that this is why he was misunderstood in his time, and why he was a magnet for criminality unsurpassed by any modern day spiritual teacher.
What interests me is what of his post-Enlightenment discourses is this referring to? Is it that his discourses in Pune 2 (87-89) offer his finest insights, are now contemporary, and will ultimately be most relevant in a couple of hundred years or so? The current Zen-style “Inner Circle” argue from the perspective of these last years (apparently). I would say that they have a limited and deeply biased view of his last years. In any case, the argument seems to be that his earlier “Indian Guru” and “Sex Guru” eras were wrong, out-of-date, or in the least a few rough drafts.
If these earlier eras were pre-Enlightenment you might at least have the basis for a case. (Of course much more would be required). Yet Osho was by his own unchanging account enlightened in 1953 at the age of 21. I do not know when it might be said to be that Osho was a ‘typical’ Indian style guru, but it seems that he was so for some 15 and more years after his enlightenment. I should have thought this reasonable time to iron out a few crossed wires in the brain from the diamond thunderbolt! Perhaps he was appealing to the peculiarities of the Indian culture at the time, just the same as he later appealed to the peculiarities of a 1970’s sexual revolution.
It might be plausible here to argue that he refined his understanding as he came across different types of people and cultures. This makes some sense. Osho read widely throughout his life and in this way he became exposed to more and more intellectual views. He also was fond of noting that he liked to observe people, and learn from this. Presumably in observing different types of people and different cultural groups, he would learn from this. Presumably he could also share this learning and help the different groups evolve. Still, in the sense that he claims to be enlightened, I would assume that all his utterances carried the fragrance of truth, and that this was what was ultimately important.
Even if we accept the above scenario of learning, it cannot be extended to the idea that any particular group or culture is wrong or primitive. Devotion is one of the four paths of yoga – Bhakti Yoga. We have it that Osho catered for devotion in an overt way as a ‘typical’ Indian guru up to the early 70’s. So the path of devotion is as old as spirituality in man. Osho presumably had a very deep grasp of this path, and was some twenty years involved with its unique Indian qualities. All of a sudden we have a hippy revolution originating in the West, and so does Bhagwan Rajneesh’s Indian guru style, actions, and discourses suddenly become what…out of date, or perhaps transcended? Would you like here to posit that the free love hippy movement was more evolved than the Indian consciousness? If so, why did Osho not start out as a “Sex Guru” rather than a ‘typical’ Indian style guru? It is not as if the entwining web of sex and spirituality was not a regular theme throughout the history of the sub-continent.
If we follow this type of cultural analysis through Osho’s life time we can do little more then indulge in philosophical or intellectual speculation. If you would like to take certain years as ‘the golden years’ then you have enumerable problems to explain. If 1987-1990 were the golden years, then what happened from 1953-1986, some 36 years of post-Enlightened life. What is it…two decades in the ‘Stone Age’ as a ‘typical’ Indian guru, and one decade in the ‘Bronze Age’ as a sex guru? If you take this view it inherently means accepting a view of cultural superiority. Western hippies are more spiritually evolved than Indian devotees, and the Western leaning Zen-style collective is more evolved than both.
As an intellectual endeavour arguing for the refinement hypothesis it may be more fruitful, if accepting there are clearly defined different ‘eras’, that Osho refined his teachings within each ‘era’, and for each cultural or spiritual group. If you were a devotional type and were following Bhakti Yoga, presumably it would be best to listen to some discourse from some time in the early 70’s. What about the end of the sex revolution? Was that defined by the end of Pune 1, or perhaps the collapse of The Ranch? In any case, if you have a suppressed sexuality, I suppose you should listen to a few discourses from the end of that era.
I don’t subscribe to either of the two above theories. If you are a devotional type, then perhaps an earlier discourse will be more spiritually valuable. If you have a repressed sexuality then perhaps a discourse from Pune 1 would be most spiritually fruitful. If you are like to sit in the lotus position then possibly listening to some Pune 2 discourses would be most helpful. Maybe, but who is to say. Just listen to the discourses. The array of subjects is staggering, at all times. Do you think there is nothing for the Bhakti Yoga enthusiast is his supposedly Zen-style Pune 2 discourses? Do you think there is nothing for the Zen-style enthusiast in his discourses from the early days? This notion of delimiting Osho to certain fixed eras, and the notion of refinement, is on the surface laughable, and beyond that deeply hypocritical and prejudiced.
Osho has stated that the path is from student, to disciple, to devotee. The devotee is the most in-tune with the Master…has almost merged, or is almost One with the Master. Perhaps critics of devotion can come up with a different quote from Osho. Does that version go in reverse…from devotee, to disciple, to student? Of course the term ‘devotee’ will mean different things to different people, but what it is referring to remains.
What does it mean to be closest to the Master? In J Krishnamurti’s case he would say this is a misunderstanding. He would say a highly conscious seeker who becomes close to truth is actually the farthest from him, and would call this person nearly “O”. In Amma’s case she would say the person is closest to her and is nearly “1”. In Osho’s case it could be either “O” or “1”, or indeed somewhere else along the spiritual spectrum – as he was this kind of Master, and welcomed all seekers walking all paths. Of course many so-called Osho sannyasins are not seekers, and are stuck “1/2” way, ignorant of their own way, whilst imposing their misconceptions and objections on others and their natural way.
Prem Abhay, not a bad commentary there and you do raise some interesting points.
This whole story about Osho’s discourses and which series encapsulated his work most is for me redundant. Osho talking for endless hours was what he did, but sitting in his very powerful silent presence had a lot more to do with who he actually was. All of his talks were just a part of the big picture, which was to encourage people to sit silently and move within to a wordless space.
As for his discoursing on various forms of yoga I also feel this is a redundant point because all of the traditional paths had little to do with his radical approach to awakening which in my opinion has nothing to do with ‘Spiritual’ in general.
Drop the whole past,
drop the concept of God and religion
Be Here Now
I agree with Lokesh’s point. In an educational sense the words and meanings of Osho discourses might help the future world for educational purposes.
Otherwise find and enjoy the silence between the words and get awakened into no-mind.
Thumbs up to that Anand & Lokesh
Holy cow! What is going on? People actually agreeing with each other on SN. Where is Bubbie?
Bubbie only gets occasional free time from his mental asylum in Oregon. This Sunday he has to take care of the goats. One of his goats got pregnant and now the rumor goes……
Ah…I get it, now we will have goatubbies on the farm. How wonderful. I always new bubbie was going to be a loving father. Congratulations.
i must apologize to everyone for anand`s outburst.
like conan doyle,i have tried to kill off my creation which developed a life of its own.
like conan doyle,i have failed.
imagine my surprise when i got to the computer today and saw anand back here on sannyas news.
my girlfriend said i did get up in the night and go downstairs for a while.
.i dont remember a thing.
its quite disturbing.
swami frankenanand has a life of his own.
not only that but most alarming of all, he is offering sound advice (be here now) and appears to even be developing a sense of humour.
a post-modern prometheus,for sure
Frankanandstein! Aieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!
Frank, I left you some time on sn and maybe some of the others here believed your ferry tale. I specially have Shantam in mind. So I stayed silent for some days, so you could enjoy your ‘invention’.
Frankanandstein is not bad Lokesh, but I am really Wolfman from Andromeda, sent here to find the 100 last disciples of Osho and bring them to a secret place from where we will be picked up from the Mothership.
I have A. Anand to thank for guiding me through the fathering process. Thanks for bending over backwards, or rather forwards for me — you stud you!!
Wow! Prem Abhay has laid down here some ultra clear-headed perceptions from the mountaintop — gazing at the continually bubbling liquid plasma evolutionary world of Osho sannyas over the years. Very impressive indeed.
frank, you might do well to take some pointers here from your brother/sister-in-arms — (s)he can gush forth with a condensed clarity out of the mind of a self-proclaimed virtual identity that may be hard to match, even from your own fertile resevoirs of imploding imaginations and ananding anonymities.
it has been said:
‘ignorance is bliss’ (– anon.)
‘anand is bliss’ (– osho)
‘frank is anand’ (– frank)
‘anand is anand’ (– ‘anand’)
what next? Abhay takes over Inner Circle, and puts some semblance of logical rationality to all this confusion?
‘you’ve come a long way baby’ (– Benson & Hedges cig. ad) …
Mr.SW. Abhay, Which one are you- the real or the fake?
both are fake !
some fine posts, Abhay.
is that you kwai chang bob?
how`s life in townsville you old donkey dick soup guzzlin`
chinaman?
i thought you had transcended or something…..
no kidding,,,,
synchronicity…
i was just reading today about the restaurant in china where the cuisine is compprised of entirely penis-based dishes.
have you been there?
hey bootsie .
you fun king funker
now you`re talkin`
dr funkenstein from the mothership,here……
if it funks move it
if it moves funk it
let there be funk on earth…..
only disciples who know how to funk will be saved…..
yeah………
My fizzle, wizzle, dizzle….have you seen ‘District 9′?
do you recommend it?
Yeah..plot wise it knocks blue spots of avatar….I want to be reincarnated as a prawn. You have to watch ‘District 9′ to find out what a prawn is.
i didn`t realise it was a prawn movie.
frank,… ‘transcended’?
transcended SN for a while is all…phew….
at least it’s a start.
there are more restaurants in china than heinz has got pickles, and that’s an understatement, bro’…
more dimsum joints in just Guangdong probably than total restaurants in all of Britain, even if you include the Falkland Islands in the tally…
what’s with this “Anand” quagmire you’ve got yourself enmeshed in frank — i knew from the get-go Anand was bogus. But then again, who isn’t on SN? whatever happened to Prof. Thompson. Another bogus ID, it looks like…Abhay has admitted (s)he’s bogus, Anand has too about himself…but, really, who would believe anyone here at SN, the never ending Halloween Masquarade Party…the only one i’d probably think is kosher is Alok John when he tells his Berlin Bunker Stories from WW2….the Fuhrer jitterbugging and all that….
you think you are ‘real’ …’Oshobob’?
do you believe anything is real?
Do you believe you exist or is Frank maybe dreaming you?
I met Lokesh in District 9 and we have our spacecraft parked under the ocean, ready to launch.
Only Bubbie is real here.
The Dance Remains: the Accra Resort
with SUBTITLES- watch
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Guess what!!
Just spotted Bubbie…Watch
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c’mon Anand, i know i am real, for chrissakes.
man, that’s so easy to answer…so easy.
and i know that frank isn’t dreaming me, in the Chuang Tzu butterfly style, because his northern English girlfriend would never let him, first of all…you know how those northern English girls are….a bit domineering and overly practical, to say the least…
“District 9 and spaceships under the ocean”, well good luck pal in your fantasy world, may your journey be a fruitful and adventurous one…it’s somewhere to be anyway after your Sannyas Spaceship has crashed long ago in another place, another time…bon voyage, all you galactic star-walking geezers…!
and yes, I know Bubbie is real, as i am the one who has penned his posts here since the start. Toushay!
oh=ho…Oshobob aka Bubbie, very serious response.
China practical mind..keep your feet on the ground, do proper work and oh no, no fantasy please.
Finally someone who KNOWS.
amen.
Abhay,
Keep in mind, that your demarcations of the various phases of Osho’s work, i.e. the early “Indian devotional stage,” the “hippy-freelove-Western” stage, the Pune 2 “Zen” stage, etc. are all broad-brush generalizations at best — good for defining big chunks of time and color, but not comprehensively accurate really.
Osho always had deeper undercurrents of his complete picture happening at all times, although the surface appearances may have a veneer of being slanted to a certain limited parochial atmosphere.
For example, “Zen” and “Devotion” seem always to be positioned in arguments as opposite and irrevocably antagonistic paths in the spiritual world.
Not so.
Take China, where Zen was created, essentially….
The Buddhist people used to greet each other with the ‘namaste’ pressed-hand greeting, which meant “I bow down to the divine in you” — as ‘devotional’ as you can get, it seems. This was called “hezhang” in Chinese. They eventually called their Zen Masters “heshang”, with a similar meaning, but different Chinese characters.
When Zen was injected into Japan many centuries later, this word “heshang” was pronounced “osho” in the new country. So really, Zen=Devotion, at least in this historically relevant example, bridging the vast corridors of time and space, showing a deeper level of reality.
phoenix:
satya deva, are you still carrying my wife three years later? I am getting on with my work.
SD:
Predictably tricky, clever-dick response there, phoenix…
The ‘joke’ or irony of the matter in question, of course, is that you imagine yourself ‘qualified’ to make grandiose pronouncements on “the essence of sannyas”, while being blind or oblivious to how you treat your very own wife!
Third world poor Ghanaian or not, don’t you think she deserves better from you, O Great Visionary?
But then, perhaps such man/woman issues don’t figure as significant in your evidently very important work’ of distilling the ‘essentials’?
Perhaps you’re just a bit of an old, unreconstructed dinosaur, eh?
hi Satyadeva and thanks
I wrote this piece for two reasons:
1: given my epic thread on this website earlier, some follow-up made some sense.
2: getting my own words out and published is a wonderful means for me to review myself, ask myself:
(a) are these really my honest intentions?
(b) if so, how well am I doing in achieving them?
As to (a) :
Answer: yes, honest.
I wrote the piece with a particular slant, as it was written for SN. I intend my project here to be, at least for me personally, a ‘sequel’ to Pune.
Now in Pune I encountered among other things the transcendental, the sublime. Is that not something ‘grand’?
So my personal ‘sequel’ should also have something of that grandeur, so my statements about it may be/seem grand.
In other words, maybe refrain from getting het up or whatever about ‘grandiose pronouncements’? I am not claiming to know the essence of sannyas for all, just for myself.
More on point (b) in a mo.
hi again
point (b) as promised.
How well am I achieving my intentions?
Answer: some well, some not so well, some hardly at all.
Considering which, I ask myself from time to time whether I might not find partners, including people who might remember that same sublime grandeur and like the idea of living it in a new context.
Maybe you Satyadeva are one? You seem to know something about, or at least be interested in, man/woman issues. Maybe come here and add that sphere to the project? As you rightly surmise, those issues currently do not feature here at all.
P
Thanks for your reply, Phoenix.
I’m no ‘expert’ on “man/woman issues”, I was simply pointing out something which seems more like common-sense or even common decency.
So, no need to make it into anything more than that – unless you wish to sort of ‘elevate’ the matter to a realm above that rather basic level, and thus deflect attention away from what seems very much a ‘blind spot’ in your way of looking at such things.
But there again, perhaps common-sense and common decency are not so “common” after all….
hi SD
one nan’s meat is another man’s poison.
And what you conceive of as common sense may not seem so to others, so may indeed as you say not be common.
I honesty see little or no harm in what I wrote three years ago.
If I go to my workplace and look around at what has been achieved there, I do not say to myself: take no pride in this, because there is some flaw in my character which has led me (on one or two occasions) to write remarks on chatboards, which one or two people have considered offensive or something like that.
I would be glad if you would accept what I write above for its own sake without prejudice. As far as I know, you know nothing of me for the last three years. Probably I have changed. Why not look afresh?
Phoenix
No problem at all with your worldly achievements, Phoenix, it looks as if you’ve done a great job.
But you still appear to have a blind spot in what is surely a major area of concern, and which is arguably of far more importance than anything we might attach ourselves to in the outer realm.
Like most men, though, you almost certainly will disagree….
satya deva
i think the last time you ever saw me was my 42nd birthday party in Highgate. Nineteen years ago.
As far as I know, you have never been around my life here in Accra. And for the last three years you have I think known nothing of me at all, except for the article above, which is only about my work.
And yet you tease me as a ‘visionary’?
It is rather you whse vision seems remarkable, in that you are able, on so very few clues, to assess my character and my blindness.
I stick by my response. You seem prejudiced towards me… Apparently too towards many men.
You seemed male in 1992, probably still do.
So how are you better than most of us poor blokes? Or are you not?
P
No, Phoenix, I wasn’t at your birthday party, neither, of course, have I any experience of your ‘great work’ in Africa…
More than enough for me is your ultra-defensiveness regarding how you presented your Ghanaian wife to the readers of the former SN Chatboard.
Which you try to continue by rather cosily resorting to membership of the male sex, as if it were some sort of ‘club’ – and, more to the point, membership of which, you infer, kind of absolves you from being responsible for your actions.
I’m not suggesting I’m any ‘better’, certainly not that I’m somehow more ‘evolved’ than you, I wallow in ignorance every single dfay of my life! – I’m simply pointing out to you an evident ‘blind spot’ you clearly have, which you continue to cling on to, it appears…
Perhaps you have too much your own way in your life and are simply unable and/or unwilling to accept criticism?!
well , SD,
as I suggested in my firstt post, you seem very interested in this blind spot.
I am honestly not.
Maybe because I no longer have it. You surely don’t know.
In any case I feel free to write what I wrote, and ‘qualified’ to do so. (though why anyone needs to be qualified for that I do not really know.)
In any case too I cannot write about everything at once. I wrote about my african resort only.
I did not write about a male club, you misunderstood me there.
And as to inferring certain priveleges of that club, you are surely projecting on to me, when did I ever say that?
Are you a closet macho bastard, trying not to be?
P
OK, so you don’t conceive of “us poor blokes” as some sort of ‘club’, where unfortunate indiscretions of a rather (unconsciously?!) superior kind – those related to gender and wealth, for example, in your case – are to be conveniently overlooked and preferably, er, forgotten…
Or at least cloaked in airy vagueness (“Maybe because I no longer have it. You surely don’t know” is a conveniently classic example…).
No, it’s not a projection, it’s a fairly straightforward, obvious conclusion from your writing here.
Elementary, my dear Phoenix, elementary!
what does Deva Satya mean? is it sanskrit for Divine Beast of a Mean and Angry Ugly Inside and Out Ancient Rotten Old man?? Seeking to verbally degrade..cut down..and insult as many fellow sannyasins as possible?? actualy..dont answer that..i Already KNOW the Answer
i don’t consider it vagueness. I simply seek to deflect your argument where it seems irrelevant. I don’t want to engage in such banter or critique. I do not see what good will come of it.
You showed some kind of interest in what I wrote, I engaged with that, even though it seemed mixed up with prejudices.
Of course, I cannot insist you stay on the topic I initiated. But as I do not see what is constructive in your take on it, nor see this forum as appropriate for your apparent intentions, I doubt I will respond again.
i don’t consider it vagueness. I simply seek to deflect your argument where it seems irrelevant. I don’t want to engage in such banter or critique. I do not see what good will come of it.
You showed some kind of interest in what I wrote, I engaged with that, even though it seemed mixed up with prejudices.
Of course, I cannot insist you stay on the topic I initiated. But as I do not see what is constructive in your take on it, nor see this forum as appropriate for your apparent intentions, I doubt I will respond again.
P
Paramix, I wonder whether you’re actually aware of the reasons for my critical remarks directed at Mr Phoenix?
(If your previous nom-de-plume was ‘Paramiti’ then from past experience I doubt very much whether you do – or whether you care! That person was never much interested in issues, only her emotionally-charhged prejudices).
If you’re not her, then you’re quite clearly of her unfortunate ilk. So, enough said about your nonsense.
As for you, Phoenix, as you’re clearly determined to hang on to your view of yourself (as a rather ‘superior’ sort of chap – engaged in ‘very important work’, after all – unworthy of criticism, especially where it intrudes upon your sexual affairs)…
And as you’ll certainly never admit to shortcomings in that area (of that I’ve never had the slightest doubt, I know the sort of mentality I’m dealing with here, your writing simply reeks of self-importance)…
Then yes, why waste more time and energy on such a hopeless case?
I dont know about paramiti..but personally..i harbor Emotionally Charged Prejudices Against Taxi Drivers..particularly ones whose hearts as Black as Pitch
So – are you actually aware of the issues here? From current evidence, the answer’s a resounding ‘no’.
i like harmony.
So if agreement comes not waste time on matters which cannot be addressed fruitfully, good.
If hopes which seem far from, or incapable of, fulfillment are abandoned, good.
I questioned whether the recent dialogue was constructive. But no matter if it is not. It is not this dialogue that matters to me. What matters to me is whether I am constructing the life I want.
And this publication of mine and the responses I got (or did not get) have enabled me to reflect on that.
And I see I have more work to do,. Important work, unimportant work, reekingly self-important work, call it what you will, it does not matter much.
You’re dead right, sir, it doesn’t matter much at all…
However, I would say to you that how you relate to your wife is important (although you, of course, may not see it as such)…
As is how you relate to your ‘self’, esp in the light of what others might point out to you (yes, it’s those doggone ‘blind spots’, darn it!).
But we men just love to bury ourselves in our work, don’t we, it’s such a convenient ‘get-out clause’….
‘knock knock knock knock knock knock knock knock’
‘who’s there?’
‘guess!’
‘satya deva.’
‘correct. How did you know?’
‘no one else keeps knocking like you!’
Work to do.
Or: things to do.
Or: life to live.
Same thing.
Anyone who wants to carp, carp.
Anyone who wants to knock, knock.
Anyone who wants to be friendly, be friendly.
On your marks. Get set. Go.
You missed your vocation, sir – you have that distinct hallmark of a natural politician:
An ability to avoid answering – or even considering – the real question(s)!
Too clever by half you are…
You’ll get no vote out of me!
i cant wait til Chris Wrongway dies ..and is Then forced into his next life here on earth.. in which he will be at the Mercy of his new parents…and a life in which All that he put out..comes back to him..and he so tender and young and fragile….
Just so we don’t forget what this is actually about…
I’m suggesting that you might well be ‘unfit for purpose’ in attempting to extract “the essence of sannyas”, if you are unable or unwilling to see that you have characteristics of a sexist plutocrat!
Not to mention the profound irony – spiritual ignorance even? – implicit in this self-deception.
Looking forward to your response, Mr Smoothie….
Paramix:
i cant wait til Chris Wrongway dies ..and is Then forced into his next life here on earth.. in which he will be at the Mercy of his new parents…and a life in which All that he put out..comes back to him..and he so tender and young and fragile….
MN:
So, you ARE Paramiti then – liar! (Hilarious!).
I guess you’re another with ‘spiritual seeker’ pretensions, eh?!!!
Well didn’t we all get killed off on the Sannyas News Chatpage and got reincarnated here. Its the same old crew! I will of course be playing the little fool again! Is Karma you know. X X
’spiritual seeker’ pretensions you say?
well we’d better get a move on then!
The hour is getting late.
’spiritual teacher’ pretensions would be a move in the right direction at least,
but better still throw the whole thing out and follow your own inner light………. I am you and you are me and we are all together…………………tra la la tra la lee……….
hi Punam
how goes it?
You like Africa, don’t you?
Why don’t you vacation here, check me out, and report back to those whom it may concern?
Whatever other shinanigans may be going on here, or not, it is a beautiful beach resport.
Your old friend
Phoenix
(what did I say? If you want to be friendly, be friendly? And up pops Punam)
‘Ere, Punam – you never replied to my last message…
I wish to have words with you, sir….
And your phone doesn’t work (like mine)
Thanks for the invite Phoenix.
Accra is on the same longitude as London. Zero. So i could slide down and you must catch me with a butterfly net.
Could this work? If you miss with the net I will be spending my vacation in Antarctica which is the next stop. Risky! And what should I pack? Snow shoes or sandals?
Satya Deva may be coming with me but he will insist on a holiday not a vacation so we may arrive on different days. If you miss the first one with the net please let the other go by. It could be lonely in Anarctica. If you catch the first but not the second – so be it! Kismet. See you anon.
Far away places with strange sounding names ….like……………..behind Ghana Telecom and Anglican Church beside Baden Powell House, right off High Street……………..yeh man sounds like Wembley to me!
Hey man dig this……..’Personal Yoga training available at flexible hours.’ great! In other words Phoenix don’t give lessons in the morning when his old bones are creeking!
Over 60′s yoga between the hours of 1 to 1.30 pm just as the Glucosamine sulphate is kicking in. No i’m not knocking it mate we need all the help we can get us Bus Pass Holders. Could be on to something here……really.
Aint that right SD?
What’s that? Did someone speak?
Nearly an hour has passed and no more posts!
Whats up with you lot ?
Are you out enjoying yourselves or what!?
Are you dancing in a balmy African night ecstasy to the sound of hypnotic drumbeat with black skin sweat swaying sweet night jasmine scented women
or has the elecricity meter just run out and you’ve gone to bed to keep warm?
Which one which one?
Ha! one punctuation mark less and my post would have made sense……….
Which one which one?
i was swimming under the moon.
And now I am letting your romantic vision inspire me.
…..
Phoenix
btw Punam
just in case your longitudinal pole dancing doesn’t work out, there is excellent chat on facebook, come join us there, you know my email address, both PM and Itara are in the loop there.
P
I wish all my Brothers joy whether they are swimming under the moon or heating up half a tin of oxtail soup over a candle flame in a cupboard under the stairs. love P
Is mulligatawny ok, please? Also, I live in a flat…Do I qualfy for this largesse, Brother Punam?
PUNAM!!! i wuv YOU!!!
i second the motion..Come to facebook Punam XXOO