In 1971, Osho (as Acharya Rajneesh) got Laxmi to publish a short pamphlet called “LSD: A short-cut to false Samadhi”. It was edited by the woman with a felicitous name: Dolly Diddee. Anyone know who she was? Maybe Kavita?
The price was two rupees.
Here are a few extracts, but the whole pamphlet is worth reading if you can get it. SN staff have been unable to find the text in digital form but maybe someone has it. (Parmartha)
Acharya Rajneesh (Osho) says:
You can project with LSD. You can project in meditation also, because the unconscious is the projector. So all the knowledge about Kundalini, all the knowledge of Chakras, all the knowledge that you have of knowing must be thrown out; because your ordinary mind can also project it. When you are meditating, you can project the same thing. The process will be slow because there is no chemical help. It will take a longer time but the phenomena is the same.
There is a great possibility of self-delusion, for the mind is deceptive. And the unconscious goes on playing tricks! It is not only in LSD that the deception is possible, even in ordinary meditation, the deception is possible. The unconscious is the same. You must change it. You must make it vacant. It must not be a knowing unconscious. It must be openly vulnerable, ready to face the unknown. Meditation is going into the unknown. So you need a purge, you need a cleansing, you need a complete overhaul.
The unconscious must be cleaned. It must not be pre-burdened – it must not have seeds. Sabeej Samadhi is a Samadhi with seeds. A Samadhi with seeds means a Samadhi with your projections. It is not a Samadhi at all. It is just a name-sake. There is another term – Nirbeej Samadhi, a Samadhi which is seedless. Only a seedless Samadhi is Samadhi, which is authentic because there is nothing to be projected. It is not that you are projecting – something has come to you. You have encountered something. You have known something new, completely fresh, absolutely unknown before, not even imagined; because whatsoever you can imagine you can project. So knowledge is a hindrance in Samadhi and a person who is a ‘knowing-person’, can never reach Samadhi. You must not go burdened with knowledge. You must reach the door of Samadhi completely empty handed, naked, vacant, only then the authentic thing happens. Otherwise, you are meditating with the projections. You have been projecting in meditation, and you have been projecting in your LSD experiences. Both are projections.
Forget your LSD experiences as dreams, otherwise they will be coming between you and your meditation and comparison will go on. That comparison will be suicidal. It must not be compared, otherwise meditation will cease; and you will lean towards LSD.
Any chemical help can only create psychic phenomena. It can never be an authentic realization. Realisation is something to which you have happened. Realisation is not something which has happened to you. Realisation is something in which you have jumped. It is not that something has penetrated into you.
In LSD you go nowhere; you are just where you were. Something happens to you because of chemical changes; because your ordinary mind is not functioning. It has been de-functioned. The ordinary reasoning, the ordinary checks are numbed. They are put off and the unconscious is put on. This has been done through a chemical agent. You are not the controller but the chemical agent is the controller. You are under its influence. You are not a free agent – now LSD is free in you and LSD will work something in you. It is not that you are working, but you are being worked upon and something will happen to you – not that you have happened to something.
LSD – A Short-cut to False Samadhi (Osho):
http://www.wikifortio.com/889372/Osho, LSD Shortcut To False Samadhi.pdf
Thank you, Arpana, for this link.
Thanks, Arpana, for the link.
Samadhi with seeds, samadhi without seeds…
When are they going to bring out the multigrain one with toasted sesame seeds and pumpkin seeds?
SS, seems these guys who came up with such seeded unseediness had nothing better to do, maybe just like us!
Relevance of such articles will get creative dimension if Parmartha and friends start distributing 1971 fliers and booklets to the joint smokers in Amesterdam.
One always needs Jehovvah the Witness kind of brothers and sisters to spread the forgotten booklets styled for present-day people.
Shantam, sometimes I wish such books could reach the present-day religious- minded, for example ISIS, then I wonder if they would have the time & energy to read such stuff.
Parmartha, I think this name Dolly Diddee is more fictitious than felicitous!
Yes it (the name) more than probably is fictitious, Kavita, and yet may be a good ironical flavour, speaking of “felicitous”.
In the text I could download I found an ´Ananda Prem´ (a New York psychoanalyst at that time) and her question to the former Archarya 1971 in Bombay about the US government-sponsored experiments with the controlled use of LSD.
She also had been a Yoga practioner for quite a while by then. Seemed to be kind of very intimate group around the Master then at that time (twenty persons were present, I read).
I loved his response to her question and felt quite familiar with it, although I came to see him much later, and also without having had (ever) experience with such strong chemical stuff.
Some more than forty years later AND aware that we are living under quite strongly ´dope-oriented´ societies in the West (as East, I guess), the necessity to differ the false (not only the ´Samadhi´) from the true is nonetheless very significant, isn´t it?
And no Master worth his salt will stop pointing at it.
However, nowadays we also know much more about the built-in body doping and inner bio-chemical reactions, as happens unfortunately in the post-traumatic stress disorders, just to mention one topic and an unhappy one, and there are so-called ´happy´ ones too, where we lose consciousness and awareness-capacity to stay grounded in the moment.
In some nooks and corners, voices come up, shedding some awareness about the topic of ´d i s i n t e g r a t e d´ spiritual powers and its consequences even on the global collective psychic situations.
Yes, I loved the response Osho gave to Ananda Prem in those former days, and would even say it didn´t lose importance contemporary-wise.
Even when words would now may be different but not the Essence of it.
Madhu
P.S:
And thank you for mentioning in a such relaxed way the “toasted sesame seeds”, Swamishanti….
“Some more than forty years later AND aware that we are living under quite strongly ´dope-oriented´ societies in the West (as East, I guess), the necessity to differ the false (not only the ´Samadhi´) from the true is nonetheless very significant, isn´t it?”
Yes, Madhu.
I reckon having at least one powerful LSD experience in one’s life is a must. If you have not had one you will not understand why I am saying that.
Osho had one LSD experience. Therefore he can hardly be viewed as someone who really knows his subject matter in this particular instance. Osho asked me personally about my LSD experiences. He summed up what I told him by chuckling and saying, “Very good.” He then gave me some advice and I later followed it and daresay benefited greatly from it and still do.
I reckon Neem Karoli Baba did a better job of influencing the global spiritual community’s attitude towards LSD. Not so much with words but with action. Baba Ram Dass’s account captures it perfectly. It is a truly remarkable story:
“In 1967, when I first came to India, I brought with me a supply of LSD, hoping to find someone who might understand more about these substances than we did in the West. When I had met Maharaj-ji (Neem Karoli Baba), after some days the thought had crossed my mind that he would be a perfect person to ask.
The next day after having that thought, I was called to him and he asked me immediately, “Do you have a question?”
Of course, being before him was such a powerful experience that I had completely forgotten the question I had had in my mind the night before. So I looked stupid and said, “No, Maharajji, I have no question.”
He appeared irritated and said, “Where is the medicine?”
I was confused but Bhagavan Dass suggested, “Maybe he means the LSD.”
I asked and Maharajji nodded. The bottle of LSD was in the car and I was sent to fetch it.
When I returned I emptied the vial of pills into my hand. In addition to the LSD there were a number of other pills for this and that – diarrhea, fever, a sleeping pill, and so forth. He asked about each of these. He asked if they gave powers. I didn’t understand at the time and thought that by “powers” perhaps he meant physical strength. I said, “No.” Later, of course, I came to understand that the word he had used, “siddhis,” means psychic powers.
Then he held out his hand for the LSD. I put one pill on his palm. Each of these pills was about three hundred micrograms of very pure LSD – a solid dose for an adult. He beckoned for more, so I put a second pill in his hand – six hundred micrograms. Again he beckoned and I added yet another, making the total dosage 900 micrograms – certainly not a dose for beginners. Then he threw all the pills into his mouth. My reaction was one of shock mixed with fascination of a social scientist eager to see what would happen. He allowed me to stay for an hour…
and nothing happened.
Nothing whatsover.
He just laughed at me.
The whole thing had happened very fast and unexpectedly. When I returned to the United States in 1968 I told many people about this acid feat. But there had remained in me a gnawing doubt that perhaps he had been putting me on and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn’t actually seen them go into his mouth.
Three years later, when I was back in India, he asked me one day, “Did you give me medicine when you were in India last time?”
“Yes.”
“Did I take it?” he asked. (Ah, there was my doubt made manifest!).
“I think you did.”
“What happened?”
“Nothing.”
“Oh! Jao!” and he sent me off for the evening.
The next morning I was called over to the porch in front of his room, where he sat in the mornings on a tucket. He asked, “Have you got any more of that medicine?”
It just so happened that I was carrying a small supply of LSD for ‘just in case’, and this was obviously it. “Yes.”
“Get it,” he said. So I did.
In the bottle were five pills of three hundred micrograms each. One of the pills was broken. I placed them on my palm and held them out to him. He took the four unbroken pills. Then, one by one, very obviously and very deliberately, he placed each one in his mouth and swallowed it – another unspoken thought of mine now answered.
As soon as he had swallowed the last one, he asked, “Can I take water?”
“Yes.”
“Hot or cold?”
“It doesn’t matter.”
He started yelling for water and drank a cup when it was brought.
The he asked,” How long will it take to act?”
“Anywhere from twenty minutes to an hour.”
He called for an older man, a long-time devotee who had a watch, and Maharaji held the man’s wrist, often pulling it up to him to peer at the watch. Then he asked, “Will it make me crazy?”
That seemed so bizzare to me that I could only go along with what seemed to be a gag. So I said, “Probably.” And then we waited.
After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening?
Had I misjudged his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it, not realizing how strong the “medicine” really was.
Guilt and anxiety poured through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking at the watch. At the end of an hour it was obvious nothing had happened. His reactions had been a total put-on. And then he asked, “Have you got anything stronger?” I didn’t.
Then he said, “These medicines were used in Kulu Valley long ago. But yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows now. To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God. Others would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this.” And he left it at that.
When I asked him if I should take LSD again, he said, “It should not be taken in a hot climate. If you are in a place that is cool and peaceful, and you are alone and your mind is turned toward God, then you may take the yogi medicine.”
Lokesh, where did you hear that Osho had tried LSD, and do you know if he ever tried any of these?
(They were quite popular with the Druids and the Mayans, so I hear).
SS, in the early days of Poona 1 it was quite common knowledge that Osho dropped an acid trip at some point in his life. I doubt he tried shrooms. Osho was never very interested in psychoactive substances. Well, at least as far as using them went.
I suspect many sannyasins have no experience of samadhi, false or otherwise. Maybe having a false samadhi would not be such a bad thing. It might create a taste for the real thing. I could certainly vouch for that.
Personally, I do not bother trying to label any space I find myself in and hence have little need of the word ‘samadhi’ in my vocabulary. Some gurus describe samadhi as a state of dreamless sleep. Therefore I have plenty of samadhis to be going on with. It could be seen as yet another golden carrot word like ‘enlightenment’.
Yes, but was Osho a ‘fun-guy’?
Did he have ‘much room’ in his life for psychedelics, or is that all hyperbole?
“Yes, but was Osho a ‘fun-guy’?”
No, Swamishanti, none of that, although He loved to make us laugh with sometimes hilarious, sometimes outrageous jokes.
“Did he have ‘much room’ in his life for psychedelics, or is that all hyperbole?”
We have to let it BE, I guess.
And anyway – any storytelling nowadays reveals more about the storyteller than anything else, doesn´t it?
Madhu
I haven’t taken any magic mushrooms for a long time, preferring a natural consciousness and meditation these days. I still see them growing around, occasionally.
The last time I partook of mushrooms, years and years ago, I had had a couple of beers and was in a merry mood, and decided to eat some that evening that I had found and picked a few days earlier.
I ended up laughing a lot, laughing the whole night in fact. I remember multi-coloured patterns in the sky and everywhere.
The next day, the small writing on my tube of toothpaste, stood out to me, and I was looking at it in a way in depth that I had never noticed before. It was really quite a joy to look at it.
I guess that in a case of enlightenment (both the seeded and the seedless kind) the nervous system is going to have expanded a lot and become very sensitive, so that any narcotics or psychoactive substances (including nitrous oxide) would become much more enjoyable, and potentially addictive too.
However, Osho’s dentist said that Osho found that it helped to relax his chest and relieve his asthma.
You know what, Swamishanti? You are also not a ´fun guy’ either.
How I come to say this? Just reread your latest essay.
Maybe – or sure enough – also this will pass, some competition amongst the guys here bragging about their expertise with psychoactive substances in a way that does not really surpass Shantam Prem’s stupid trixter madness to misuse the internet chat as such.
But sure enough, you also know to quote and to data-phish. Just like Arpana. (Do you change roles in the GAME here, by the way?)
If you have something to say besides having had beer and mushrooms and seeing colours in your toothpaste, then please go ahead.
You´re using an ´apple´for communication issues, are you? Me too; mine is pretty poisoned, so to say. But I am sober enough to say that some of you guys lose your sense and sensibility as their intelligence on a quite regular basis.
Madhu
Madhu,
Is there someone on this fertile Earth you find intelligent, funny, loving, caring? You complain about the men and women on the street, you complain about your neighbors, you complain about the low emotional intelligence of bloggers here,; is there some semi-cooked Mr. Perfect somewhere?
Madhu,
I wrote that post about magic mushrooms because I thought it was relevant to the theme of the current topic, connected to LSD.
If you want to talk about a different subject, then perhaps you could start a new topic on the chat forums, or post a new thread perhaps.
By the way, when I was talking about my toothpaste I did not mean that I could see colours on it. What I meant was that the small writing on the tube of toothpaste stood out to me in a way that it never had before.
I also run a quarterly magazine in a ‘tabloid’ format: ‘Wot the Bhagwan done’, or the German version, ‘Bhagwan: Was Macht Er?’
“When I asked him if I should take LSD again, he said, “It should not be taken in a hot climate. If you are in a place that is cool and peaceful, and you are alone and your mind is turned toward God, then you may take the yogi medicine
Isn’t Osho’s advice essentially the same though?
SD, I would say not. I only once heard Osho say directly to someone that it is fine to continue with psychoactives. Osho wanted people to meditate, viewing the psychedelic experience as a transient one and meditation creating something a little more permanent.
That is why it is a bit puzzling that Osho got so hooked on nitrous oxide, an old favorite of The Grateful Dead, which only left me with a sore head.
The man himself.
Here`s a picture of Neem Karoli Baba when he took the acid:
Sometimes I’m so surprised and enthralled by reading Osho. What he says and how he expresses his truth, on this and on other subjects, is so startling in its simplicity and power it transcends time by so often being right up-to-date and relevant, at least to me.
Prior to reading this piece of writing, I’d had a powerful, rather ‘cosmic’ dream last night. As I tried to recall it and describe it to my partner this morning, I stumbled at how the words failed me and at how both difficult and indescribable the details were. It was portentous and subjective and very real, as I dreamed it; but once awake it was so difficult as to make little sense to me at all…How fast the mind wanted to hold it and understand it, yet I was unable to do so.
As Osho described: Many of us have had powerful and cosmic dreams, sublime experiences through drugs or profound interactions/feelings with others, and they are all become part of the information with which we promote a self- identity, ‘knowledge’ or source of ‘information’ about who we are and what we know.
His reminder was that to ‘fix’ or know myself through any experience, dream or feeling is always redundant and doomed to failure. And that it’s only through staying in the moment, in the immediacy of discovering that any true knowledge is found. It cannot be retained or captured or remembered, because these are all tools of the memory/mind.
Once again Sannyas News, thanks for publishing this piece into the world at exactly the right time!
Just 10, 12 days ago, two British dailies have articles about use of recreational drugs by terrorists. It seems on one level, mind of religious fanatics and spiritual seeker is searching for something bigger than the boring, stale daily life.
Beautiful “Hoors” (Angelic girls) waiting to welcome Martyrs in Heaven, or state of enlightenment, seem to be different allurements for different kinds of people with similar goals.
“Isis fighters use Captagon amphetamine pills to stay awake, Turkey just seized 11 million of them. Almost two tonnes of Captagon pills were seized by Turkish anti-narcotic police near the border with Syria.”
(Independent.co.uk)
Revealed: The cheap, easy-to-make amphetamine pill that is fuelling Syria civil war by keeping ISIS fighters on their feet for days at a time.
(Dailymail.co.uk)
More lazy thinking here, Shantam. Can’t you see the difference between using amphetamines to keep awake for war and ‘recreational drugs’? (Unless fighting and killing is ‘recreation’, of course , which I suppose it might well be for a lot of those ‘ISOL chaps’ out there!).
As for equating the lure of a ‘Martyrs’ Heaven’ with the ‘search for enlightenment’, boredom being the common factor, well, I suggest that a whole lot more than that is involved. For a start, in the former case, sincerity implies extreme, robotic stupidity (not to mention gullibility), a veritable carnival of unconsciousness (mmm, I do like how that phrase rolls off the tongue!) and in the latter, it would tend (hopefully, anyway) to indicate the opposite.
On the one hand, stand some of the most perniciously misguided perversions of spiritual teachings that have ever existed, while on the other, at least there are a few genuine teachers and possibly one or two ‘traditions’ that are still worthwhile.
P.S:
I suspect you’re also pretty bored yourself, aren’t you, Shantam?
It is a joy to tease spiritual seekers.
Satyadeva, I always get the feeling you were a Brahmin in South India in many of your previous lives. Osho was as good for you as a urologist for broken bones!
Thus speaks the great Osho disciple who, after years of earnest ‘sikhing’ (primarily for any sex he could, against all the odds, somehow manage to find) has ended up spending his days unemployed, overweight, stuffing himself with newsprint and takeaways to the point of ‘sikhness’, regurgitating trivia he mistakes for something ‘sikhnificant’ and tapping out that and other half-baked bollocks on his computer.
What a star! Enough to make any sensible person utterly sikh!
He’s right about one thing though: it’s certainly “a joy to tease” such a silly old ‘sikher’!
Shantam,
YOU were a Brahmin in South India in many of your previous lives. Osho was as good for you as a urologist for broken bones!
In Indian schools teachers always say, “If you want to cheat in the exams, for that too you need to study, otherwise you will copy the wrong answers.”
Arpana, please take notice.
Shantam,
Nobody has anything to learn from you.
It is true.
Nobody has something to learn from me.
It does not exclude Somebody.
It was late Osho Baba who has enough to teach to Everybody!
P.S:
It always brings confusion. Is it appropriate to write ‘was’ for Osho or it is always ‘is’?
In the Resort, they address Osho in present tense, but are sure 100%, man is no more anywhere.
Shantam, a strong dose of LSD will deliver you somewhere that could hardly be described as recreational.
Using amphetamines to keep the troops flying is not a new development. Ask any Second World War pilot you run into up in the Fatherland down at the local pub. That is, if they let you in.
The catchy and crunchy headlines like ‘LSD – A shortcut to false Samadhi’ and
‘Sex to Super-Consciousness’ played a big role to bring imported disciples to Indian soil, specially during the time India has only two products worth of export: Religious Gurus with long beard and ‘Manali Trance’ stuff.
I have heard from many people that during Pune 1 many sannyasins have chosen the dangerous way to earn easy money by working as amateur courier to bring Manali stuff into the West.
When in few hours of flight some product becomes 20, 30 more precious than the original price, temptation becomes alluring when the cause too is noble. Lokesh being the outspoken one can shed some light over this trade of mixing narcotics with sex, spirituality and finance.
I can only tell from the time of Pune 2.
It’s happenin’, man, jeez…like .. can you see it too?..Like owww wow…
“Dreams and jet streams of sunlight made of sweet flavoured wishes…’scuse me while I kiss the…”
Like there’s people actually reading other people’s thoughts in this place and wow it’s all lit up…and amaaaazing… like as if they’re in a room but not in a room and together but separate…and then they can actually like read and see thoughts…like see inside someone else’s head… even though they’re not there…
Oh, aaaaaaahh heeeeeee heeeeee hoh haaaaaaaaaa hahahahaha spin the spoon maaaannnnn!
Then there’s a bunch of other people seeing those thoughts first…before the other people do…like. oh my God I’m having a weird trip now…like they are responsible for a large cricket-pitch filled with wheelbarrows and marrows and stuff like just growing everywhere…freely for the taking and pleasure of giving…mmmmm. nice…
Big thoughts come hurtling at you…then it’s a flower then…wait, oh sheeeettt…like it’s got a picture of a man with a beard spinning around and around on the ball…smiling…and just saying “very good”…
And he has a Sherlock Holmes hat on…
Amazing, feels great…
Wait, stop…
There’s this idiot who keeps complaining about Buddhists…and o my God… all the Buddha statues in this room in a weird therapy centre are one by one turning…instead…into tantric porn figures…the figures are coming alive…like in those early ‘Sinbad the Sailor’ animation films – but wait…with a voice-over by a male Indian voice…who sounds like he’s masticating all the way through the scene…
Whaaat a trip…it’s so weird, almost as if it’s totally real….
Yeah, man, and like those skeletons, man, they are like immortal and like really groovy.
So, the “seedless” ones, the fully enlightened ones, have to encourage the “seeded” ones, who are enlightened, but still have some seeds left, to “keep going”, to “keep pushing”: “Go on! You can do it!” –
“Push the remaining seeds out, so that you don`t have to be reborn.”
Shantam Prem,
I herewith like to remind you to take to heart yourself just only one of your recent ‘responses’:
“In Indian schools teachers always say, “If you want to cheat in the exams, for that too you need to study, otherwise you will copy the wrong answers.” ”
(Just in case that you have written your lines addressed to me (at 10.26 am) yourself, or have asked ´Big Brother´…).
Madhu
A P.S. for you, Shantam Prem:
As you also mentioned the “fertile earth and its fertile siblings” I become more and more aware of the successful fertilization of cruelty, obnoxious stupidedness in action and war in action on all planes and an unbearable increasing number of males and females too to just grow in numbers but not on a human scale.
I won´t repeat here that I am – and how I am – confronted with quite unbearable stuff on a daily basis.
If some male contributor here like Prem Martyn can take with his recent satirical approach some steam out of something, that is good.
And my response is not of his kind, I know, and I appreciate it. As I said it before, he does walk in his moccasins and I have to walk in mine.
Madhu
World of human race is more beautiful, more prosperous, more healthy than ever before. Without this continuous celebration of life, we would not have been eight billion human beings.
Look at the bigger picture and the history of human race and you may feel a sense of wonder.
I know it is difficult for Osho freaks to feel sense of wonder. Osho’s premature departure has left a big vacuum in lifelong disciples’ hearts. Out of this emptiness they look at the world.
Madhu, it is out of my warm heart that I curse Resort managers. They have occupied a cushy home where young Russians entertain them in meditative way and women like you are pushed to spend lonely life in all the big western cities.
The commune should have been the shelter for such people who created a global master out of an obscure Indian guru from a small town in India.
Yes, Shantam, and do not forget the shagadelic.
Shantam, you’re wrong about the main causes of the world ‘population explosion’. Improved health care plays its part, yes, but look at India, for instance, or any other ‘third world’ country. Economic imperatives, not to mention ignorance of birth control methods (thanks, Popes), are still the prime driving forces behind this.
And when you claim “Osho’s premature departure has left a big vacuum in lifelong disciples’ hearts. Out of this emptiness they look at the world”, as so often, you project your own internal condition upon others, and as usual, you are, I strongly suspect, well wide of the mark.
Also, if the legacy of all those years at the ashram is merely such inner “emptiness” then the question arises, what good did it actually do you? Look where you’ve ended up, like “the women” you mention (another projection, of course) who “are pushed to spend a lonely life in all the big western cities.”
What do you think Osho was about – creating a holiday camp-cum-retirement home ‘with benefits’, to suit the likes of you and your particular personal ‘requirements’? ‘Fraid you’ve misunderstood, old boy!
All in all – and far from the first time – you’ve written complete and utter rubbish!
How I can ever discuss with a man who is coward enough not to reveal any fact of his life, who writes as a psycho software installed in a human brain.
Satyadeva, let me know a bit of you for proper communication, otherwise I presume you have no thoughts and insights of your own but reacting and responding to the material of others.
What you have written is nothing original but a collective crap. I have heard and read this thing thousand times before.
Nice one, Satyadeva! Just let me add the prejudice against western women! He talks about us in a contemptuous way that beggars belief! Mr Shantam, we are all women, the difference of background doesn’t mean much nowadays. So, stop slandering us, please! If you didn’t learn much with the Master, your loss! Sod off, Shantam!
Ma Tan!
Can I know the person who is addressing me?
Thanks,
Shantam
World is full with Satyadeva type. Their idea about India or Osho is based on a decades old visit on tourist visa and bookish knowledge mixed with heresay, gossips and yellow journalism.
Add all this stuff in the brain, churn it with personal conditioning from Mama’s kitchen and serve it to others on English china!
Yet again, Shantam, you fail to make any sort of genuine counter-arguments, instead hiding behind a blustering, abusive façade, which, in its high degree of irrelevance (not to mention sheer stupidity) rather strongly suggests that you simply can not cope with the truth.
Truth is not like that Islam which Isis jihadis use by hiding their faces. Truth is also not that anti-war rhetoric which Jermey Corbyn kind of far leftists think.
Satyadeva, I don’t see any sign that you have earned the right to use the word Truth. Let me give you some exercise steps towards truth. Tell your fellow bloggers:
How old are you?
How you look?
What is your academic education?
What profession you pursued in life?
From my side, I can say, my response will be different if direct volley of Truth is from Lokesh, Parmartha, Kavita, Chetna; four writers on sannyasnews who have real faces, authentic writing.
“First learn to stand with your own words by giving them face and personality” is my simple suggestion to somebody, because anybody cannot learn from me and to teach everybody I am not qualified enough.
Shantam, this is about truth, not “Truth”! Spiritual Truth (or whether or not you imagine you ‘know’ me through my photo or any other external details) is simply irrelevant to the more simple points under discussion here.
Attempting to make such details an ‘issue’ is merely further evidence that you’ve been well and truly rattled by what I wrote last night – although, as usual, you won’t admit it to yourself, let alone anyone else, the ‘denial reflex’ being one of your main internal characteristics (and one of the main reasons for your lack of intelligence).
It’s the same old same old with you: the more you bluster and try to diverge from the point, the more one knows you’ve been ‘hit’.
I am morally and ethically obliged to answer and be part of discussion If I know these four things:
How old are you?
How you look?
What is your academic education?
What profession you pursued in life?
If not, it is my free will to ignore or answer and that too depends upon my whims and mood.
What a load of self-important, crypto-lawyer-speak bollox!
The joke being that it’s all in order to mask the simple fact that you are unable to make any sort of adequate response to the issue(s) in question (ie your post of 2.44pm, Dec 2, and my reply, 12.32am today, Wed. Dec 3).
You’re like the emperor in the famous story: you try to kid yourself and everyone else you’re all dressed up in finery, trying to plant yourself on the ‘moral high ground’ – when the truth is as clear as daylight: it’s all a façade, you’re naked, Shantam, transparently foolish, laughable!
MOD: REMINDER THAT ONLY POSTS DIRECTLY RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION WILL BE PUBLISHED.
Shantam, just to let you know, I have not seen Chetna’s photo or other credentials you mention.
Martyn, Arpana, Dharmen, Vartan & Tan – I have seen their photographs. But so what? I guess it’s anyway relative what one may need to think of the other writers here.
I would like to share that it is not necessary for me to know about each and everyone’s back ground who writes here;if they don’t need to let anyone know, fine, it’s their decision.
I would have preferred not to reveal so much about myself here, but I also don’t regret that, as that for me is more of a happening than my conscious decision to do so.
Kavita, Chetna has a website about Osho centre in London. I think I have seen her photo there and also on facebook.
I forgot to mention our famous Yogi is also on facebook, as well as Alok John.
It is an established social convention all around the world that dialogue is possible between two people and not two masks.
If someone asks me directly, it is my simple right to know the person first. I have not asked male brahmins of Sannyasnews, “You have to tell me the size of your wife’s Bra.”
My point is very simple: discussion among disciples and ex-disciples is no way criminal, illegal and immoral. If one still is careful not to leave the footprints behind, it means there is a little thief or a shrewd person behind. It does not fit with Osho energy.
Shantam, you tend to adopt this righteously moralistic posture when you are cornered, unable to adequately respond, hence clearly defeated in ‘debate’, as has happened just recently.
Thus, your argument is severely undermined as it’s self-evidently a ploy to divert attention (including yours) from that (perhaps perceived by you as rather humiliating) situation.
P.S:
As for ‘not fitting with Osho’s energy’, well, you’d know quite a lot about that, on a rather intimate level, I suggest, going by your recent revelations….
I will really feel humiliated if I win the debate over the people who are not real. So you and Madhu can enjoy the winning trophy together. You both have much in common, also a common fear, photo features can reveal some of the psychosomatic symptoms.
Maybe Osho has not foreseen the world in future that His words will be used as refined opium, not for the masses but elites among the masses.
“I will really feel humiliated if I win the debate over the people who are not real.”
Pull the other one, Shantam. You wrote flawed nonsense, it was exposed – and you couldn’t cope. Simple.
“Maybe Osho has not foreseen the world in future that His words will be used as refined opium, not for the masses but elites among the masses.”
You think Osho was primarily interested in teaching “the masses”? Are you totally off your rocker?!
“If someone asks me directly, it is my simple right to know the person first. I have not asked male brahmins of Sannyasnews, “You have to tell me the size of your wife’s Bra.”
My point is very simple: discussion among disciples and ex-disciples is no way criminal, illegal and immoral. If one still is careful not to leave the footprints behind, it means there is a little thief or a shrewd person behind. It does not fit with Osho energy.”
Shantam, of course it would be ideal to have everyone’s real photo & basic details on SN, but I quite enjoy the mysterious aspect too, which to me is also Osho energy.
A little story about my experience with joints:
It was 22nd March 1989. After discourse and evening meal i was standing near the fountain in Krishnamurti Garden. At some distance away one Ma was sitting with the plate. Through our eyes connection we were aware about each other’s presence, so in this pleasant evening we looked at each other, smiled and I went to her for some small talk.
As in such moments in ashram, small talks led to, ” Would you like to come with me?”; one hour later I was in her room. There, first time I have seen how someone takes the tobacco out of a cigarette, mixes it with some green grass on the palm, puts the mix back in the cigarette and smokes.
Before getting hooked with Osho, I was a baptized Sikh. Use of tobacco products is religious taboo. While in Pune, my friends persuaded me to drop the conditioning, so I have the experience of taking few puffs of beeri and cigarette with friends.
With this date too, I took one or two small puffs. She was inhaling as experienced person and talking esoteric after some time and I was fully engrossed to feel her touch and silk-like skin.
Her joints, cheese toasts and romance, for 9 days and nights – I have no idea when we slept. Then she took her flight back to Germany and began a long-distance relation which went through all the usual steps of an unusual love story. It seems like most of the relations developed in the commune has some element of fate but no common future.
During her return to Pune after few months, I came to know the Indian group she was very much part of. These three, four Indians had got the maximum number of women in their kitty. Supply of hashish joints seems to be the reason for networking of sex, tantra, friendship.
A parallel world of real life with all its vices and virtue was running inside and outside of commune. This is one of the reasons for commune’s failure. Rats were eating the bottom of the ship.
“Supply of hashish joints seems to be the reason for networking of sex, tantra, friendship.”
What has “tantra” got to do with it? (Do you even know what tantra is?). Why not just say certain sex and friendship network(s) seemed to depend on a supply of hash?
I note that despite your condemnatory remarks, you seem to have been and to remain pretty pleased with how the original hash-based episode worked out, ie pleased enough to boast about it here!
And I bet you’d give almost anything for that scene to be reborn, with you in the middle of it all…In fact, why not admit, Shantam, that such situations are what you most miss about the ‘good old days’ in Pune?
The rest of it – occasional bits and pieces of meditation, discourses, even Osho’s physical presence itself – well, that was ok, but getting off with any spare western women, however drugged-up and air-headed, well, that was what it was all about, wasn’t it, eh?!
I am glad somehow, Satyadeva, that you are/have been able to ´hold the line´ here, yesterday late night, as I was left feeling awkward and speechless.
Just imagining that Shantam Prem has been working in the Editing department in former days…and is here often somehow ‘pampered’ by Kavita, who does not seem to be irritated as a woman, which does shock me too over the time.
However, developing a dissolution in between a “sod off” (Tan) and a ‘pampering’ (Kavita) and a quite correct ‘viewing mental psycho-emotional abysses’ from your and other sides did and does not bring good results in internet-times, does it?
Winter-Friday-Morning Blues –
before dawn, clear sky, full of stars
Full moon over…
Have been listening to musicians on the radio pretty all night long – just now beautifully inviting to dance into the dawn….
Madhu
I presume Satyadeva knows everything better. Surely he knows too the essence meaning of Tantra and the Tantra that is a package product and also its street use. Tantra is, after all, a word from Irish dialect.
His sense of humour and penetration into collective mind is legendary. SD reminds me of one of my friends, who was invited in Germany three, four times by his German friends on tourist visa; now my friend has the expertise to teach Germans about almost everything…This friend is a Brahmin, just like Satyadeva.
Maybe Satyadeva has the family name Chaturvedi (those who know four Vedas).
Mmmm, signs of ‘progress’ in your first paragraph. The rest is mere lower-caste baloney (but what else to expect?!).
“Just imagining that Shantam Prem has been working in the Editing department in former days…and is here often somehow ‘pampered’ by Kavita, who does not seem to be irritated as a woman, which does shock me too over the time.
However, developing a dissolution in between a “sod off” (Tan) and a ‘pampering’ (Kavita) and a quite correct ‘viewing mental psycho-emotional abysses’ from your and other sides did and does not bring good results in internet-times, does it?”
Madhu, to me it’s not pampering Shantam or any other person, it’s more of dealing (can’t find a better word) with my own psyche/human psyche.
There are many times when I want to disown any association with Shantam totally, like when he writes in that tone which he more than often does here on SN, his latest post the epitome of that personal disgust he has probably for his own life and the lack of love in his life. I consciously decided not to have any correspondence with him, except for SN, which is in a way my lifeline for the moment.
Which latest post of mine full of personal disgust you are talking about, Kavita?
If SN is your lifeline for the moment, does it not mean lack of love in your personal life and no other prospective? (MOD: perspective OR prospects?)
Swami Shantam Prem, this whatever you keep continuously writing about Swami Anand Jayesh. It’s becoming unbearable for me and I am quite sure anyone in their senses would think & feel the same.
My love life is still alive in my heart, probably you won’t know that. I have no complaint about my situation in life as there is no place for any complaint whatsoever. And if any complaint in my practical life does arise, these days I deal with it without getting any third person involved.
One more thing I didn’t come to Poona for Jayesh & his deputies, nor am I interested in their activities as I am not a physical part of what goes on in 17, Koregaon Park. Yes, I agree the life for all sannyasins has changed, but how can only the administrative head be responsible for it?
Why don’t you talk directly to the persons concerned about your complaints?
Anyway, wish you the Best always.
“Why don’t you talk directly to the persons concerned about your complaints?”
Very good point, Kavita. But as we well know, Shantam has an anti-regime agenda so he wouldn’t want to miss any chance of spreading innuendo about any its members.
After all, he blames them for the state of his own life, and consequently almost certainly dwells in bitter resentment of them every single day. What a state to be in, eh?!
SD, most probably any state is mostly self-inflicted.
Was the cause of her death a heroin overdose?
I remember reading this somewhere.
I don’t know & somehow have no curiosity to know this .
Swami Shanti, Are you talking about Peaches Geldof or Amy Winehouse?
Who knows, could have been more of a Brian Jones.
Sometimes accidents happen with these things.
By the way, are we on the right thread?
Thank you for your response, Kavita, was good to hear from your side.
You know, when I started to join the chat and pretty right from the beginning, I went into ‘history’
(re-reading repeating topics and issues, individually as collectively here) in the chat moves, especially whenever I felt I’d kind of desperately ended up in a ‘wrong movie’ sometimes.
And up to now, over again I’ve found some spot of awe and fresh beginning from my side. And I am grateful for that possibility. As I am living quite a hermit´s life; it happened to be like this.
You also need to know (more so Shantam Prem!) that I don´t fool or fake around here. Took this caravanserai chat as a virtual meeting place in this strange kind of ´pilgrimage from here to here´ we did – or do call – ´Sannyas’.
With love,
Madhu