A damp snow falls…
(Swami Deva Rashid worked in Poona One as Osho’s personal vegetable gardener. On the Ranch he spent a lot of time in the Pot-Washing room and the Fire Tower. In Poona Two, till the Master left the body, he was that body Guard, an Editor and all jobs in between. Now he lives in Devon, England with Nisheetha, keeps bees, designs buildings and landscapes for sacred use, has published two volumes of poetry, written a book about the pathless path we all are treading and hangs out with a tribe of grandchildren. And mostly, by choice, he does a lot of nothing.)
A damp snow falls across the English fields outside my room obliterating distinctions. Inside i stoke the cooking range and put potatoes in the oven. Who know what magic and what mysteries these years with Osho have accomplished.
Three weeks ago i was in Sydney’s baking heat, visiting my daughter and her family. My marriage to that daughter’s mother ended forty years ago. I tried another marriage after that. Since then, however, i have lived in communes and alone and with a partner. So living with my daughter for six weeks, i was visiting again the building block of our society – the family.
In this family i watched, with pain and fascination, the hang-ups, fuck-ups and dysfunctions of my parents and my grand-parents manifesting in my daughter and my grandchildren.
Like all my war-time generation, I grew up in loneliness. I always knew the aching void, the constant drag of not being whole and adequate. I married young – too young – to mitigate the pain. I got it wrong and married yet again; still the hunger, still the fear.
Thirty years or so outside the family, thirty years or so with Osho, help with inner clarity and a non-judgemental witnessing. However in the early days of the visit, i wasn’t quite so clear. I talked things over with my lady back in England. She helped me formulate a guide line for myself; ‘don’t interfere, never offer insights or advice unless invited to’.
Thus i stood outside the tensions and contentions of a couple and their daughter and five sons. Thus i stood alone. Sure i cooked and cleaned and played and read the children stories, sure i went on shopping expeditions with my daughter and bush hikes with my son-in-law. And sure i took an hour or so a day to sit, to burnish the aloneness. That way i didn’t get identified or cast into a role – despite a lapse or two.
And free of roles you don’t need others to support or vindicate you. You don’t get caught up in the daily struggles of control or freedom, what is right or wrong, inclusion and exclusion. You stay alone without being lonely.
To round off my two months Australian visit, i spent ten days near Byron Bay. Friends had lent me an isolated house beside a river in the Rainforest. It was here that i realised – again – the gift and the vision that Osho has given us. He made us do the work. Over and over again he contrived and conceived situations to confront us with our multitudinous dysfunctions, all the while commenting on how the wise ones of the past had offered solutions to such issues.
One disadvantage of my age is the need to pee three or four times in the night. It breaks the sleep patterns. At three in the morning i remembered the Jacuzzi. I slid back the lid and slipped into the amniotic waters of the tub. I lay under the great dome of the sky, of the Milky Way and the Southern Cross, the known and unknown constellations of our galaxy. I lay like a new born baby.
Consciousness whispered deep inside me. Something vague at first. It built a vision. In that majestic setting i was no longer this old body in a hot tub, but a voyager in time and space. I travelled to the timeless time when space and form were of an utter density, what physicists call a singularity.
I watched in vision as the Big Bang happened. In one colossal micro-moment singularity expanded into plurality. I watched photons, protons, neutrons and electrons streaming from the centre of the nothingness. I watched the fires and gasses grow, explode and cool and form into a thousand million galaxies and nebulae, red-dwarfs and quasars, suns and worlds and elements and chemicals – becoming rock and ocean, swamp and protozoa and amoeba, fern and flower and fish, amphibian and bird, beetle and man.
All this.
This fruit tree leaning from the house, this body in a hot-tub and the hot-tub and the water in it, the cicada buzz of the forest at night, the trees arching up to the sky, the stars bending down to the dark line of hills. All this – one stuff.
We are all one stuff.
Our loneliness is a delusion. We heard Osho say it over and over again; we are not separate from all that is – just as islands are not separate but all part of one landmass; all joined under the sea.
Sleep that night came deep and sweet. And the very next day Nature gave me a gift of confirmation;.
I hiked up through the rainforest following a small stream to its source below a cliff at the foot of a waterfall. After walking for an hour. i came to where this stream had flooded recently, become a torrent, washed out its banks and undermined a few magnificent old trees. There was an open patch, a glade, the size of two tennis courts.
I went round visiting each of the old uprooted trees and some of the remaining standing ones. There were trunks that soared up 30 metres without a bend or a branch. Some others were of the fig family, sending down a web of aerial roots that had enclosed the original trunk many times over. I had a long, long hug with a Western Red Cedar – oh my brother!
Turning to head on back up to the trail i was leaping from rock to rock when my attention was taken by something white. I stopped, balanced precariously on the rock immediately above the object.
In the cicada silence of the forest i heard myself gasp. I saw that a snake was subduing a wallaby – or, as i later found, a four foot (1.2m) Diamond Python was about to eat a 6kg Pademelon.
As i watched i thought to myself – there’s no way that snake can swallow that animal. Its body is six times the diameter of the snake’s body and twelve times the diameter of the snake’s head.
We are all one stuff, one impeccable production of 4 billion years of evolution! Of course the python knew what he or she could swallow. She knew that her skull and jaws can open up four ways and that her skin is extremely elastic.
For the next hour i watched and photographed her progress. Once, as i walked around her, she disengaged her mouth and warned me off. I got the message, said goodbye and continued up the mountain.
Lying down naked in the pool under the cliff while a rainbow cloud drifted down to me, i knew again – we are all one stuff. Python, pool, giant fallen tree, homo sapiens, galaxy. Where can loneliness come in?
Just a figment of the mind!
Even as i close this piece of writing i hear the judging voices of my childhood mutter; “who do you think you are? you’re not so great a guy! you’re not the only pebble on the beach!”
Yes yes!
I am the only and the all – and the snowdrops pushing through the virgin snow.
An issue of the mystery and the magic.
This article first appeared on Osho World.
And yet Osho supposedly used laughing gas quite regularly. Was he “lonely” too? Was he delusional? The debate continues. i think his back pain was so great and all other pain medications so dangerous, the only option that worked was nitrous… Think of it, when one goes for a tooth pull or root canal at the dentist, you get a chose of lidocaine or nitrous- the obvious chose is nitrous.. i would like to see nitrous available too all, with very few restrictions… Since all of us are delusional and in some sort of pain-why not…Gardening, is too strenuous and dangerous for the back, so is most physical labor, Nitrous it is!!!
i`m not sure what this guy rashid is trying to say…
maybe…
“loneliness is the word for the pain of being alone
solitude the word for the joy of being alone”
i would say its ok to feel both without bringing in condemnations involving “the mind”……
or,
the idea that loneliness is a “figment of the mind”
is clearly a figment of the mind….
big figments have little figments
on their backs to bite `em
and so on ad infinitum…..
Rashid, you need to check out your prostate. It is not normal what you experience….
“Thirty years or so outside the family, thirty years or so with Osho, help with inner clarity and a non-judgemental witnessing….”
The genes given by the parents we share further in the form of functional or dysfunctional family, it would have been a great contribution, when the people who loved with Osho were able to share their light and experience with the new people entering His arena.
SO their was an opportunity for people like Rashid to change their life in the presence of Osho…this transmission of light can happen beautifully if the continuity of His river still goes on rivering and His energy is being felt not just through books and clippings at youtube but through the heart to heart communication.
So anand and fresch are one in the same… I thought so… no one is who they claim to be…. full of hot air…. Yes Anand , you are a creep!! You remind me of the cop in “Les Miserables”- so obsessed… you even remind me of Officer Krumkee from “West Side Story”- a real jack ass. Ciao Fresch/anand
Editor and contributors please take notice, Articles are loosing steam at sannyasnews, though it is a fact that a high cannot be maintained for long, vallies come too in the natural process.
Problem arises when people responsible for the down trun sell their journey as a new height milestone, for example, the Prodigal and Sons ( Pvrt. Ltd) running Osho show.
poor old rashid,
i could have warned him that presenting himself on sanyass news as a distinguished old english gentleman enlightening other unfortunate victims of the family and “the mind” with his inner clarity and non-judgemental wisdom culled from a lifetime well spent in spiritual seeking
would soon be brought down to an earthier level
and be revealed to be the incomprehensible and dull ramblings of just another dysfunctional grandad and retronaut with undiagnosed prostate problems …….
viva jackassa !
Yes frank, poor Rashid, but I bet he has been on ”the hot seat”. So, trust (not in God) but on your friend Rashid.
I love it when sanyasins share their moments of bliss and wonder also, so thank you Rashid. Also, it was sweet this consulting the lady back home how to deal with an challenging situation of visiting one’s own daughter who lives totally different life, very good (self created) group process indeed.
Yesterday I was having a dinner with a religious friend with my 10-year-old child. The friend was doing a bit fanny prayer for food where after my child did the same movements and said ”acraba dabra..” i could not help but laugh (chetna, my intention was not to be arrogant, it was just hilarious innocent incident), but his “religious feelings” were hurt…
However I do know that I have already imposed so much unconscious stuff on my child which I can not help of course. But, some how Rashid I feel it is important that I at least own it as my personal work on my child, and it is not my parent’s or my grand parent’s work. And yes it is horrible to see it.
Bobbie, instead of being all over the place (even without nitrous) sell you garage and take a trip to the mountains.
abracadabra…
hahaha
kids are smarter than religious nutters.
everytime.
that reminds me,
last xmas,a friend took her kid to a santa`s grotto.
she went to sit with santa,and he asked her
,”what have you asked santa for this xmas?”
she looked at him pityingly and said loudly :
“dont be silly”
that is santa on hot seat…what would be your hot seat? frank, you should write your lifestory with sanyas news…(excluded everything else). when can we read it? i bet you have saved your posts for future generations.
pretty good article all around, with grandpa taking us from the mundane to the cosmic, but i think Rashid got a little carried away there when he expects the reader to believe he was at The Big Bang itself, the supposed creation of the universe. i mean, come on, that’s stretching credibility just a tad isn’t it, swamiji… from a backyard jacuzzi in australia at your daughter’s place to the big kabloooey of the singular particulate density moment…that’s just a little too much to swallow…i think your poetic imagination got the better of you there, but like i said, all in all, a pretty good piece of writing….i enjoyed reading it…
Abracadabra is cool. I also laugh at such incidents. (I am not religious Fresch, communism made me free from God! But I am in love with Osho which probably makes me a devotee in non-religious sense).
I also heard my friend’s story when she went to Afghanistan with her boyfriend. I could not stop laughing, but afraid will not be able to tell the story in a funny way in writing. And it was related to Allah obviously.
Hindu are also funny. Ex Hindu sannyasins put everything that happens to them on Osho. Like my brother says even when they fart they say it was Osho’s grace. For them kneeling on the floor is like swearing for Westerners. They don’t really mean it!
Poor people that publish articles here. Old school sannaysins crucify them in split seconds, no matter what they say.
Funny job title-Vegetable Gardener. I normally call dull people a vegetable.
I think it is sweet to share an insight. At least he is not claiming he is enlightened like popel normally do from some flash-light experiences
one day the Big Bang theory will be debunked and laughed at, just as we laugh 500 years later at those who thought the world was flat and the ships would fall off the edge if they went too far…
and the sun revolves around the earth…
and so on and so forth…
it seems in the 20th century the “explosion model” was the going thing to explain all and sundry, the world wars, A bombs … even the cartoon frames were filled with the exploding backdrops to text, to grab your attention…you know, BAM!, WOW!…..Holy Cow!!…..
and get this….
i just read today that the investigators at the German Bakery “explosion” have now determined that the blast was set off by a cell phone in the package, not by the Nepal waiter that opened it, as we were told a few weeks ago. Either by a clock in the phone, or someone called it and that set it off.
What stunned me, not so much that this little plastic device somehow survived a massive explosion that supposedly killed 17 people and injured many more, but that the Indian investigators have determined that the cell phone was, get this boys — “NOT made in China” !
Unbelievable, man.
Maybe we can now accept that Swami Rashid WAS at the Big Bang 20 billion years ago, witnessed it, and has survived as an English spiritual seeker who somehow made it to Osho and then to a jacuzzi in Australia.
Put some more shrimp on the barbie, mate…!
my mate dave,the quantum mechanic informs me that according to quantum theory,if the big bang happened it happened in the present,thats the only place it can happen so its happening now
has to be happening now,always.
keeps creating/re-creating.
bang
just like that.
bang.
see?
bang….
there it goes again…
“the quantum mechanic”…that is funny frank.
bang!
boom….boom!
just like a never ending Fourth of July fireworks….
reminds me of my childhood…
…it is impossible to put ‘out of the mind experiences’ back into the mind. One can actually experience quite a lot of amazing things when out there, but then here on sannyasnews or in any other written form, things look ridiculous. That is probably why even Lao Tzu tried to keep silent all of his life. Great story Rashid, hope all is well with you in UK.
the western scientific mind got enthralled with their measurement devices — the whole big bang theory was formulated out of the astro-spectograph that determined a “red-shift” of all seeable objects in space, which meant they are continually moving away from each other. Extrapolate it backwards, and you have Rashid’s dense, center mass that big-banged outwards.
Big deal.
That’s not a ‘creation of the cosmos’ theory, that’s a theory of the creation of our seeable cosmos. Obviously, all that primal matter existed BEFORE the Big Bang, and the space that the matter expanded into was there BEFORE the Big Bang. In other words, the entire cosmos was already there.
The Big Bang Theory is as much a wet paper bag as Mikey Angelo’s sistine chapel depiction of God creating Adam, with the finger-to-finger deal…
Adam, schmadam!!
Big bang…. ha, i’ll take the hot jacuzzi in Ozland anyday…
just imagine if you will….
that the entire universe that we are aware of maybe exists inside of a proton of some atom somewhere in the universe, and some “Little Ernie” takes his magnet and puts it close to his toy car that the atom and proton are in, and our entire universe gets flipped upside down, inside out, everything in our world destroyed and reformed in a microsecond….
or here in our world, I breath in, and millions of universes are turned topsy turvy inside those atomic particles because of the temperature change and movement and energy shifts…
you can go both ways, ad infinitum…
we really know so little, but claim we know so much….
talking about explosions….
have you seen the osho video on youtube:
“you have not known total chaos yet-just wait”?
check it out….
Chetna my intention is not crucify anybody, I am joking about myself at the same time, even I do not always
succeed in it. It is like tickle. And my projections are unfortunately my own. But I see that for new people (and why not any people) can get a bit strange picture here.
However, if I was controlling much, I should wait maybe one week to write anything.
But if I were to write an article here…uuuuuhhhhhh not easy. Also like Anand put it, it’s very difficult to express something that is not from the mind with words. Experience might be real, but describing it just goes wrong. How did Osho do that? We have too high standards. It should be enough if I wrote: felt peaceful, but awake today” or ”there was an explosion inside outside”…but nobody is interested reading it
I want to know more backstage stories about osho’s personal life Joyty’s way. They own it to the rest of us who were not personally with him. How about Amrito’s “Osho, power games and me disappearing” ?
Oh Fresch I so don’t mean you! I think most of the boys do the job
Oh, I hopefully do my share. It is fun too.
However you are chetna so innocent and still sharing much that I do sometimes feel like an old witch..uuhhhhhhh
This article first appeared on Osho World.
May be Rashid can tell for his choice of Osho World Medium and how he sees from his expert eyes about the two prominent groups ; labour and consevatives of Osho Kingdom, selling the similar Manifesto of Dynamic, Kundalini and white robe.
Rashid is a poet and a writer, a sensitive person and simple human being. I have met him a few times. Got his article published in the Times of India when we were in Pune. I don’t think he would get into any debates happening here on this forum. I adore him the way he is.
Daer Keerti,
I do not agree with you. I think he is happy about getting all kind of feedback. What does not hurt does not hurt, if it hurts, so?. My own work is public, so I like it whatever people comment about it. I also like to interact about it…sometimes I learn something surprisingly new about my self too, you know. No need to put one self above others.
Swami Keerti,
May be not just Rashid, but most of the percentage of people who came to Osho were poet and writers, sensitive persons and simple human beings in search of the next step in the evolutionary journey.
Osho and His concept of life encouraged these people to move out from their square holes and be round balls as they are.
Those of us who have lived ten, twenty, thirty years around Osho and His people can say without doubt that it was not just dynamic, Kundalini but the inter personal interactions
and frictions were playing a vital role in the whole development.
And i appreciate the efforts of those friends who fought collectively, time and money consuming battle to free His discourses from the closed lockers of chosen few.
And i hope these friends will not forget that one step more is needed and that is to free the spirit of 17, Koregaon Park from the clutches of the same group of people.
As i heard Osho wanted this place to go beyond the limits of commune, and not just another “Hotel O” with a CD of Dynamic and Kundalini!
Shantam: Koregaon Park 17…..put the prices down from 700 Rs to 350 Rs and off season to Rs 250. reset the computer and open the doors for all banned sannyasins. Put prices for sessions and groups down 50%. That will bring life back into the ashram. Change the name back to OSHO ASHRAM. Get the smokers out of the centre of the ashram into the periphery. Crate a festival season from December 11th to january 19th. Invite poets and musicians again.
Jayesh’s plan has failed. he has to sell ashram property (Sanai)!
LIFE, LOVE. LAUGHTER…the vision of Osho.
Anand, “Jayesh’s plan has failed. he has to sell ashram property ” is this a wish or it is happening?
What are all those rumours about the sale of the ashram?
I would love to do the mystic rose there and better 3 weeks of silence on the premises. Hmmmm…Please, guys drop the prices and let the old bearded men back in!
thye are kinda cute…
Exactly Anand exactly.
In short you have explained this all, which basically is the work of Jayesh´s consultants to suggest your kind of suggestions. But those Parmod and Devendra and Sadhna kind of Yes Man to the Yes Bank will never dare to say.
ANd also if you reflect at your post of the previous months, it is a welcome change to accept, “Jayesh’s plan has failed”.
I wish not to put Jayesh in the embrassing position, his intentions were, may be ill founded but not for any selfish motive.
I hope he sees the writing on the wall.
Few of the Contributors at sannyasnews may be a bit too much Far outs, but any one who runs the show their still should read these articles and comments for a clear and fair picture from around the globe.
Chetna has written-
thye are kinda cute…
and let the old bearded men back in!
I think just one old bearded MAN is enough to be brought back in. Rest of the pieces will fall on their places automatically.
and this Man is no other than OSHO, living an exile and virtual life on the pages of facebook.
I do appreciate your views Shantam and used to feel pain that old sannyasins are not allowed in Pune. However, now I do not think that Pune will ever be the perfect place for all. Osho was the boss, now so many boys want to be bosses.
Pune resort reminds me of the Soviet Union collapse. We had one boss-Moscow and all remaining 14 bosses were envy and wanted to get a share. Now we have 15 bosses (more I think, but cannot be precise, need to do the homework) and things are not so great still. Quite the opposite in some people’s view.
So how are you planning to put all those 15 bosses back into one place? They will not sustain. If you have visited different communes you will know that Osho places differ a lot in their views on fundamental things like meditation, not even mentioning other things.
The only BIG issue I have is this great rumour that Jayesh and Anando killed Osho. If this is so (I will never find out) then things should take a great turn! But many old sannyasins are cowards, too scared. 20 years have passed and they still manage only to whisper what they know.
And the only man that no one can do anything with is actually Osho! He is in Pune and in London, and in everyone’s heart. So I would not worry about him for sure.
cannot do, sorry
First of all Chetna, it is not true that old sannyasins are not allowed in Pune. I was not banned, being an Indian and having flat in Pune, it was not difficult to pay the ticket and enjoy the environment, but the Being was saddened to see the unwanted changes imposed.
Same way i know many people, who have no problem with money and time but they have withdrawn themselves from the scene with pain and longing in the heart.
It looks like when one person gets banned, twenty stops coming out of dizzy happenings.
Also this much mature most of us have become to find individual sources of inner fulfillment, but to share this energy with all His people and not just kids, partner, cat and dogs, is a missing factor.
I am not the teacher of my fellow sannyasins but would like to request them with folded hands to allow the inner clarity learned at His feet to take the shape of rebellious thunder.
What we whisper amongst our closed friends, let that stream out in open.
Since i am pouring my heart out in this public platform, i feel respect for myself and find me more beautiful than before, even though i have become fat without Chappatis and too much meat in chilled Europe.
As far as this, “The only BIG issue I have is this great rumour that Jayesh and Anando killed Osho” is concerned, no one can say what is truth and what is rumour; and i hope and trust none of His people have done anything to reduce His life span.
But as far as VISION is concerned, these people have to take the burden of amputation. what was possible to heal through conservative and holistic treatment methods, these people have amputated that part with coldheartedness.
A peacock without feathers, Where are the rebels of WWF
During my last stay in Pune a month ago, i was informed that average age at “Their resort” is 50.
It means it has become a old people´s home. These oldies goldies sannyasins have no gas anymore to raise a fist of protest because what they need now is a place to spend rest of thier life listening Osho and hanging around.
and for young ones,most of them children of ancient sannaysins, it is a transit camp till they get resident permit in dowry from the cuties of G 20 nations.
Still charm of Pune of His time can be restored. Dead white elephant is still worth gold compared to all the sheep and cows , who are offering Hindu cow dunk with meditation mixed in the jars of English language vocabulary.
The original rumor about this was not about Jayesh and Anando, but about Dr. Amrito.
“it is not true that old sannyasins are not allowed in ”
I meant some, and it is true they are banned. Some old sannyasins are also too old and not bothered. We can carry on….
the resort has turned into an old folks home?
the solution is obvious.
call the profeesionals,with experience.
roll the credits
its time for “sheela 2″
if anyone can knock a rag-taggle bunch of old has-been pensioners into a fighting force,its her.
she could certainly inspire the army of geriatic
sans-culottes sannyasins to storm the resort….
marching through the gateless gate as if it wasn`t there….
a brigade of spiritual terrorists…
veterans from the fields of wasco county and poona one….
armed to the teeth with crutches,zimmer-frames,a phalanx of wheelchairs to the left,a division of mobility scooters to the right….
hearing-aids synchronised and prescription drugs at the ready….
resistance would be pointless….
keerti could be there,dressed as shivaji,as he ritually disembowells the white rogue infidel leader on the newly erected podium…. to wild cheers of celebration the like of which has not been heard in the ashram since 1976……
poison darts up the bum would finish the last shreds of resistance…
all the banned would be made freemen of the peoples ashram…..
osho zindabad…. !
I am all over the place; I just post this to a wrong place. Perhaps for good reasons.
Anand, you are giving very practical and sound resolution. Yes. I wonder who would not agree with it.
I am interested in hearing martyn’s opinion on this because he has thought all about the politics. Are we planning a revolution martyn?
And Keerti, interaction would be interesting (more than a one time speech).
Do you guys think we somnambulists would have taken more responsibility then or now about the happenings in the Ranch if Osho had said that the Ranch was his device, a situation he put us into (however I came to Osho a month before he dyed, so was not there physically)? Of course not, then it had been HIS responsibility in our stupid MINDS.
Shantam it was so good that you sent this Buddha’s life story because it makes so much sense. Do you think that the Resort people and for example (you) Keerti do not know that? Why this acting and talking “split between zen and devotion”? Because, as robots we are on the next wave of a religion evolving (had the Sheela already, nothing learned from it) as a computer.
People who have been with the master osho for 40 year cannot solve personal fights. How dare you do it for the rest of us? Well, I heard osho say the responsibility of the Ranch is on all of us…so, what can we do to stop this nonsense?
frank, all kinds of people would come, young and old…we have to respect experience…and innocence…all included in Anand’s proposial.
Shantam, do you have the article what happened to Buddhism then? Some stayed in India, some went to China and Tibet. I would just like to read what will happen to us next.
Cecil B. DeFrank…
you really painted a wild scene there…!
who would play the roles if you made a movie of it…?
well, everyone could play themselves,of course…!
A Rollicking Ride! ‘ilarious! The Over-the-Hill Gang Storms the Gateless Gate! Pathos! Celebration! Here’s one for the all those who know they’ve got one last hurrah in ‘em! Five Stars, and more! Bravo! Bravo!
it`s not a problem fresch.
humans are humans
apes are apes
if they are believers in “consciousness”
“against the mind” “for oshos vison”or any other strange noises these animals make,
no matter.
just monkeys in robes and sandals fighting for territory,dominance and bananas.
spiritual bananas if you like.
but bananas anyway.
they even deny that the fight is about territory or dominance or bananas…
well,that`s just a human way of making the game and battle more interesting…
its fun.
male humanimals like to fight.
if the territory is “sacred” it just makes it more fun..
when you bring god or the divine into it ,there are higher stakes…
like “the world cup”
or
“the existence cup”
or “the universe cup”
big bang play-off….
do you have a problem with that?
Thank you oshobob, at least I get some credit. What is your solution?
Frank, yes I have a problem with that. I am not intrested in resort’s way or Indian devotional way . I want my sangha to include all and everybody, all and everything. Don’t you?
revolution?
Fresch, i was giving frank some kudos there for the his sheela-led rag-tag army of veteran geezers storming the gateless gate scene…at least it had some semblance of a real colorful event that captures the attention…
everyone else is laying these pallid “solutions” out like, “let’s lower the fees, lets be all inclusive, let’s be friends, change the name to Ashram”…nice, very nice, but just doesn’t ‘grab you’, if you can see my point here….a bit dull, a tad boring….not something that rouses the peoples’ juices, for sure…yaaaawn….
And your exciting soluton would be…?
Fresch, Chetna and the guys,
Please, watch the following video.
India is going to be the first country where 33% parliament seats will be reserved for women, thanks to the initiative of Mrs. Sonia Gandhi, An Italian married to the power house, is changing the landscapes of Indian social thinking.
Proud that Women’s Bill passed in our govt: Sonia to NDTV
http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=1207441
Somewhere this kind of gutsy and motivated energy was required from those western Ma´s who were hand picked by Osho to be in the management board of the evolutionary experiment.
I wonder how all these people can have a peaceful night when they listen Osho bombarding old religions, power structures and specially the HUMAN EGO, as i have heard Him saying it as Cancer of the soul.
I will tell you Fresch, but for a price.
One million dollars, US currency, please.
Shantam, you are so romantic…from where do you get that phonetic quality? I do not understand Indians; they can be so deep and beautiful, but suddenly kind of crazy fundamentalists or moralists…however, your dreams are my dreams. “but to share this energy with all His people and not just kids, partner, cat and dogs, is a missing factor” (=my words also).
Zen-oshobob, sharing your ideas here for free, you give your wisdom for a better world of poor us, innocent deep meditation monks.
Ps. Extended family includes all ages. If you disagree, I will ban everybody under 30 year old from our future sangha (except my child).
Shantam, I mean poetic quality..
I want to talk with people, not write!
Money talks.
One million dollars.
Cashiers check to my bank, please.
By the way, until now I always wanted to keep my self out of any of these criticizing the management (because it has been going as long as I can remember) or interfering in any politics. I do not know why the split happened. Perhaps the resort’s people are hurt not being respected for all work they did? And just paying it back?
Are you hurt oshobob?
if you are hurt, what are you going to do? leave this site? tell mamy instead.
you can drop that therapy jive fresch.
we’re all grown up now.
if you like to talk so much and be around your beloved sannyasins, then, start talking to them, and talk about money. use some muscle if you have to. be practical.
one million is the offer.
take it or leave it.
To criticize management of ashram or a factory or a country is quite an easy thing, but to offer the better solutions is a tedious task.
If you have money Fresch, buy the blue print from Bob. About the asking prise of one million, you can bargain.
Just like the man who asked some famous model named Lindsay, ” would you sleep with someone who offers you 50 thousand dollars for a night?”
Model said, ” i may take this offer.”
“Ok, but i can offer you only 50 dollers”, man enquired.
Lindsay replied angerily, ” what kind of girl you think i am.”
” what kind of girl you are has become clear in the first question. Now it is just a question of bargaining.” retorted the man.
PS- Name Lndsay i have taken from the TV ad of E-Trade. it has nothing to do with Ms. Lohan. Disclaimer is to avoid law suit.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/lindsay-lohan-sues-trade-100m-milkaholic-boyfriend-stealing/story?id=10051692
Nice thought Chetna, that the old sannyasins are cowards and are afraid to tell what hey know. a few of us conveyed similar ideas- about coming clean, like the “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” that South Africa set up after the end of apartheid. Many like Shantam Prem, Amrito, Anand and others shot that idea down, some months ago….Wouldn’t surprise me if these blokes will now agree with you.. So many posers, and chameleons posting on this site…. Not many here to respect…if you can’t be honest, even with your identity, you don’t deserve respect!!!
Frank–Anand can be Sheela 2!!! He’s fanatical, obsessed, no sense of humor, vengeful, still has goon friends who work at resort security, thinks being rich and greedy is better than love and compassion, and practices duplicity….. Perfect choice!! and Fresch as his side kick!
Now who’s clinging to the past, Fresch, Shantam, Anand, Chetna….are you all suffering from Alzheimer’s disease? Short and long term memory loss? Maybe something more insidious yet simple is theanswer— FEAR!!! Fear of letting go- of the
Resort/Ashram, of the ranch, of Pune 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6……Chetna’s desire to do the mystic rose and sit in silence, when “things”change more to his liking at the resort wannabe “Old Ashram” You jerks are pathetic bunch of losers!!! Get a life… Get a Grip… GET A MOVE ON!!!!!! Time to stand on your own two feet and stop crawling like a bunch of fucking babies!!!! I’m beginning to think that most of of you were Mormon rejects and needed to find a new home… Sorry polygamy isn’t happening at the resort…not yet anyway!!!
i agree that all old sannyasins are not banned, but at the same time turth is that they are not welcome either . last years, management has hurt so many old sannyasins by imposing rules on them and humiliate them in welcome center.
there is long list of rules now a days when you visit resort these days .
each day you will get hurt by someone from management.
this is reason that milerepa, miten, joshua , and many tibetan pulsing group leaders, they do not visit like they used to in the past because they are not welcome and you feel it once you there . these were just few names, i know many many more who does not go there. management of osho resort is bunch of idoits and business minded and cowards who can not handle wild osho lovers. i do not like indians running the place either , there has to be some balance ……..westerners have to stop imposing rules and indians has to stop stealing money and has to stop harressing other indians. then we can have reall commune of osho . and everyone has to respect the trees . in last ten years more then 100 trees has been cut and demolished un necessary to give shape to new pramids . osho was never in favor of cutting trees. no matter what .osho was never in favor of inviting outside workers to run the daily kichen activity or front end matters. osho never wanted management start looking into personal life of visitors and their spritual growth. osho never wanted dectorship ,.osho never wanted resort and stupid activities which are taking place these days. osho never wanted to edit his discourses . osho never wanted to make profit from his books . osho never wanted meat and other non. vegetrain food inside the commune. there is long list of thinghs which osho never wanted…..nobody can justify . osho always wanted us to use common sence . and that is what is missing from management…………they are so greedy for money and power that they stop using their common sence. by the way neelam and keerti are not using common sence in their place either…………so is jayesh and his team. commune has turn into one big corporation and who is responisble for this . most of us . we kept quit and we kept saying to each other it is ok . we kept sayiing it is going to be fine. we kept saying this shall too pass and here we are in big mess……….now from where to start to clean the mess. it is getting bigger and bigger . mess is big, time is short , we are very few. all i can say to my fellow travellers and osho lovers, that when ever you visit 17 koregaon . park. make some courage and talk to management and express your views , may be someday they listen to us , may be someday our voice may be heard in that noisy atmosphere
i forgot to mention about music in the whiterobe . and elsewhere inside the resort. musicians are not allowed to use word osho or commune or sannyas into the song . if you are artist and if you can not express your heart……..you would not go to resort …………this is one of the reason why large numbers are musicains are not going to resort. and remmber music has always played the most important role in the commune . when it comes to life , celebration or meditation……..
So, we all know what is wrong. It’s very sad because people really love osho, so it’s not really true Amano, that we are few. Osho books sell millions, he has millions people watching him on you tube, even on face book he has almost 65 000 fans (it just pisses me off that you have to go to Osho pages through the resort pages, these are kind of tricks that really turn people off).
So, people are interested in Osho (or love him), but not his sanyasins or their organizations because centres do not get visitors. Or people meditate with their friends. I actually gave feedback to the resort a year ago about some stuff, but I do not think it was received at all.
So, one person does not do anything. The resort has a lot of power because they can always ban you from your sangha, circle of friends (the biggest reason for people to visit the resort and other centres). Some kind of POSITIVE and constructive effort on face book would work if thousands of sanyasins would agree. Like
Do you say yes:
All sanyasins are welcome to all centres
Old sanyasins are to be treated with respect
We are allowed to express our love for our master in every individual way we want to
we are not customers, but sanyasins
we respect the work of all centres, including the resort
anand’s proposals etc. written in positive way…
….
I wonder if the resort’s people have sanyasin friends of their own age. Most of the time I saw them they were wearing suites. They looked a bit bizarre among the casual dressed sanyasins like in the wrong dress code (I use the suite with business people at work, but it would never come to my mind to dress up like that in the resort even if I go out here)…
yeah, instead of complaining we should some how help them. And are they meditating? I am a fundamentalist dynamic lover these days, and intend to do it next 20 years to get myself enlightened. So how to help sanyas organizations?
By the way, my feedback was that they are wasting my short visit time by making me to go through half a day introduction tour around the resort with videos of how to be in the meditations, how to do dynamic etc. (I had had a 10 year break from the resort, NOT from other centres, and used to be in pune2 for many years for many months).
It was not hurting, but irritating waste of my time, fanny, strange, wired…kind of stupid, amateurish, rigid…however, I felt that I try to support them by enjoying to see how they present the place to the newcomers.
So where are Neelam &co not using their common sense?
“used to be in pune2 for many years for many months”-Pune 2 didn’t include many years…:)
Sweet Prem B, you make me laugh, you are like a child…..
FYI I cannot miss Pune2 and Pune1 and the past all together because I came to Osho 15 yrs ago when he was not already in the body. And I can repeat again, I would love to do Mystic Rose in Pune or Who is in just because it is Osho’s home and the energy there is overwhelming. I am not stupid to pay the money they charge now. I meditate in my house and it goes perfectly well for free!
But, the energy in Pune is a bomb! So easy to meditate, so why not to want that?! Very simple! But I am definitely not bothered.
If they drop prices and function like a place with care and love for mediators I will come and pay a reasonable amount, otherwise I have been going to other communes in India and love them all. Cheap and cheerful!
chena, I was in pune2 for many times for many years…it must a pain to read my text, sorry
bobbie is an extreme sweetie, yes…;DDD
and chetna, your proposials are the same we all expect…
oshobob, you have to start giving me some money because i am contributing in making you famous, where is my provision?
and intend to do it next 20 years to get myself enlightened. So how to help sanyas organizations?
Fresch, I think you will effortlessly in 20 years! he he he. So we shall wait for your arrival!
I thought Puna 2 with Osho was only there for 3 years. Am I wrong? Or you went there before his return from the US?
BTW, I do not like that you are not using your real name. We are all actors anyways, and hiding the identity on top of that makes no sense to me.
Poona 2 was from beginning of 1987 to Osho’s death January 19th, 1990.
Prem Bubiie says: if you can’t be honest, even with your identity, you don’t deserve respect!!!
Hey FB Bubbie: what is your real name then: want some respect? Stuart?
well, I came to osho a month before he dyed (or left his body), until 1996 we always talked about living the era of puna2. What was that then?
I do not want to use my name, because I do not want to sensor my writing. Because we still have some of this cult stuff left like possibility to be banned if critical with any centres, so I like it this way. I could easily drop any critics about any resort people, Indian etc., but actually now that I am in the middle of it, it feels good thing to be involved in.
And my own book will be “Me and dynamic, my self in dynamic and how did I became dynamic” and I will sell millions of copies to dynamic lovers for 99 Euros per each and create my own sub cult “ bowing down to dynamic in my self” and give satsangs about all valuable insights, let’s say only for 300,-. Instead of streaming freely like I am doing now, I could start the book from here. Yeah?
in my opinion Poona 2 phase should be counted till the end of 1999. He may have left the body but His vision was taken care by the multiple hands of His people.
Taking the central point away from Buddha Hall to Osho pyramid, total control of one man and his loop sided interpretation of Osho can be termed as Poona 3 and this Poona 3 is so static, so stale like a plastic Rose that it will vanish one day and make space for New Poona depends entirely upon divine prudence.
Anand, I assume the “FB” means fuck buddy!!! Sorry, I ain’t your “FB”, but your prefix Anus is very appropriate, i hear you can ride a mean watermelon!!!! Anyway, your critiques don’t mean very much, you’re a fraud from very beginning… Start with your real name and occupation…the truth squad at the resort will be watching.
Fresch, if you’re serious with the above comments, then you’re a real wack job, worse than most posting here….by the way, you said a “religious” friend had dinner with you… what qualifications and/or intelligence do you have to judge who’s “religious” and who’s not? What you’ve posted so far has shown me that you’ve lost most of your marbles !!! Swami Rajneesh might be able to help you–become more demented!!! How about giving up your 10 year old child for adoption– it’ll help your kid in the long run–crack pots shouldn’t have kids.
Bubblie, are you a certifed nut case, Middle finger in the ass kind of stink you radiate with your fucking writing.
How dare you tell to a mother who adores her son to give the child for adoption.
i can slap such a person who writes or speaks such non sense. you have not learnt at all to respect the bounderis of other people.
As written in the end, crack pots shouldn´t have kids, i am sure you are applying your maxim to yourself.
NO Bubbie, FB stands for FartBrain. And “Crackpots should not have kids’, another one from your all compassing wisdom: tell this to your mother, it would have saved these pages a lot of stink.
one million.
$1,000,000.
too many o’s fo ya?
‘ow ’bout some garden ‘ose?
panty’ose?
OOOoooo0000
oooo ooo o oo
oOO OOoo
oOo0 00 00 o oo o
OO
o’s anyone?
Bubbie, my son agrees with you that his mother is crazy, and sometimes threatens to stay more with the father, but when asked when he is going to move out, he said perhaps when he is 30 years old…so I will have plenty of time to impose some more stuff on him. However girls love him, so I must have done something right.
My friend is fundamentalist, not ”religious”, but I am fundamentalist dynamic lover. You can still get the cd, and start breathing, even in a trash can, move your hands sitting on that wheel chair…be careful do not knock your self out. Or do just that.
Oshobob seems to need some help again…what a bunch of freaks. Lock him up or pay that million for him, so that we get his plan.
You see my point with Indians, embarrassing much love comes through this Santam fellow (a western sanyasin would never dare to be that sweet), but then what happens? What is wrong with you, why do you not get along with westerners?
Ps. The resort people are infatuated with their consulting customers (BMW managers, face book founders etc.), they do not have sanyas friends, so they identify with the world, even in Poona. How can we help them?
Also, I heard from a very rich family company owner that his father had said: “I am the Company (this and this)”…when things got bad, the father committed suicide. Is there the same identification going on like “ I am the legacy of Osho…”? It takes years to pass a company to the next generations; I just wonder what will happen to the resort.
Hey Bubbie,
You do not deserve to post your letters in this blog and need to learn some ethics. Try to learn a b c of civilization, that will be better for you. World do not require the people like you with rotten and sullen mind.
Fresch wrote
“So, people are interested in Osho (or love him), but not his sanyasins or their organizations because centres do not get visitors.”
Two reasons in my opinion.
First, the young people are not as troubled as the baby-boomers were. For many of them reading Osho is enough; they do not need to do the meditations.
Second, many old sannyasins have damaged the reputation of sannyasins by making their money from dubious mind/body techniques : I include the Humaniversity and Reiki as examples. Most people are not stupid and have the ability to see a con-trick. Also many old
sannyasins have imbibed new age ideas which makes them ruthless. The young people can see this.
I think the fundamental problem is that people do not get inspired, neither old nor new sannyasins nor those wanting to join.
Guys, when you came to Osho what made you stay? I would imagine His presence, the magic, the silence, the mystery. Without Him it would not have happened!
And what did he say?-“I will dissolve in my people” for the new comers.
Unfortunately, not many sannyasins trust this and are not connected to the Master. So when new people come, where will they get the juice from? Many people need nourishment and support, and if they do not get it they will leave.
So to me the problem is simple-meditate and connect to Osho!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So Alok, young people do not find Osho in His sannyasins. Arrogant, angry, boring old stock does not appeal.
Thanks God, there are great sannaysins-old and new! They flower and they inspire.
Books are good in the beginning, but without meditation and love not much will happen.
And those saying “I do not need meditation” are simply unconscious about it and immature.
I think everyone is on the same page re Prem Bubbie. Ignore him! he may switch off by himself later on….
bubbie is essential part of us…he is like me.
“I do not need meditation” are simply unconscious about it and immature.”
I agree with you chetna. You do not get it from the book, face book meetings or you tube, never..
But, the problem is not about attracting only new (or young) people. Also, sanyasins are not to become some entertaining parents for these new baby-generations who want everything ready for them.
However, there is a gap, that all feedback is valuable if we want to meditate with more than 3 people…Alok John, you have very good points. But what to do?
Still, bubbie needs limits that his mother was not able to give him.
Sorry guys, slightly off the topic
Do you know this guy Andrew Cohen? No time for research but seems like one of those from Osho ashram.
http://www.enlightennext.org/london/detailpage.asp?ttl=http://www.enlightennext.org/cms/index.php?/centers/entry_detail/andrew_cohen_in_london/
Finally I can respect one sannyasin for being honest, regarding their insanity.. Respect to you Fresch, you have shown great courage with your honesty, as opposed to most of the bullshitters and deniers that post here. For your son to stay around you until he’s 30, just means you managed to castrate him completely, poor kid. A guy needs “Balls” to make that leap from mom/dad, to independence. Can you please take time and re attach his balls so he can become independent and fly off sooner rather than later…. Something most women have the inability in doing, for their hatred of men gets in their way of truth and reality…..
Shantam- you’re a crack pot Indian still in the grasps of ancient Hindu superstitions.. I’d gladly slap you in the mouth for your stupidity, hypocrisy and as a sannyasin wannabe hindu…get lost you hindu creep.
anand- “Pages” don’t stink but your anus does…it’s spread to your mouth and brain–retard!!
Chinmaya– the ethics I’ve learned, i learned from Laxmi, Sheela, Vidya, Shanti B. Homa, Jayesh, Amrito…. need i add some more… You’re a fucking hypocrite Chinmaya. You guys seem to have a big problem in being exposed as such… Please censor me, I DARE YOU!! That will just prove my point further on the hypocrisy that STILL exists and has existed in the sannyas world… What I wouldn’t let this site turn into, is a “FEEL GOOD” site for pathetic losers and posers and criminals… You’re just going to have to take the bitter medicine along with your sweets….. Long live personal insults!!!
Alok john, young people now are more lazy, fat, stupid, afraid to interact face to face, obsessed with violence and gore, drugs and alcohol , and prescription drug abuse is obscenely high… The old generation is primarily responsible, for the youth look to adults for wisdom and guidance and what have they gotten from us…. is obvious…. The youth are just taking the baton from us…the scary thing is what the generation after will do with the wisdom they receive from their parents, if there is a next generation!!!
Chetna, what you can’t take an insult? So much for your meditations!!!
once again,the burning question of the day is
what to do about the desperate state of sannyas?
despite the efforts of our very own “guru gurus” here on jackass news and elsewhere,no one seems to be able to stop the rot.
a realistic appraisal is called for.
one should ask
what are sannyasins good at?
what are they not good at?
do what you`re good at,avoid what you`re bad at…
makes sense doesnt it?
this is not an exhaustive list,just an idea.
you can do it for yourself at home…
1.running a cult or religion
-absolutely rubbish.
from day one,threats falling out,in-fighting,theft,fraud,legal cases,major felonies,murder,poison,scandal,arrests etc etc…
maharishis lot have still got a massive global portfolio.
amma`s got a soup kitchen in the US.
hell,even the raelians can get into the tabloids.
thumbs down
2. irritating the hell out of the local population for appearing to run a religion or a cult.and pissing off even the people who are thinking of joining a religion or a cult. market leader.
thumbs up.
3.distributing drugs. from the false bottomed suitcases of bombay and manali to the popularisation of E from the california therapy chambers to the rave scenes of ibiza to goa and and every city in the modern world was a global achievement.
a definite thumbs up.
4. dancing. . sannyasins know how to totally freak out with their eyes closed without bumping into the next guy or girl.even hippies and ravers cant do that.
thumbs up.
5.therapy. leaping around with no clothes on shouting i love you i hate you so fuck you and your negative shit….
while the group leader hits on your semi-conscious girlfriend,and you get to explore your jealousy with an empty bank account?
no sale.
6. running a rehab.
has anyone ever met a graduate from humaniversity that wasnt doing more stuff by the time they left than when they arrived?
and the people around osho.more pill-poppers puffers and boozers than you can wave a stick at?sure.
thumbs down…
7. music. deuter,kitaro,joshua, miten and premal etc etc..
these guys have spaced out a lotta people that have still never even heard of osho.crafty.
thumbs up…
8. becoming gurus in their own right.
the have-a-go advaitists are mostly post-sannyasins,but the real big-timers,like ecky egghead arent exsannyasins
paul low did get sting to write him some doggerel
hoho.how lowe can you go?
thumbs down.
9.meditation. oh,they`re experts at that,aren`t we?
hey fartbrain Bubbie, you are the most entertaining of all. I have put your postings on my daily joke page, so whenever I need a good laughter, I read your postings. You will never manage to get rid of me, I follow you like a mosquito will follow the light….I am your nemesis…hahahahahahahaha
10.love. well just look how well we all get along here….
Great Idea, great list@frank
May be this list can be extended to 20.
11. Making Sex free from Procreation
Thumbs up
I presume in average as group, first generation sannyasins have screwed more people than average but with minimum kids. Therefore shared a reverse contribution in the already decreasing western population.
12. May women December Men
thumbs up
If you are twenty years or more as a Swami, and don´t have a girl friend half of your age, you are looser like me, and sannyasins as a group don´t like to be termed as such.
When was the last time someone has seen Osho´s book titled, ” only losers can win this game”,
13. Propagating the word Meritocracy, and implementation?
Thumbs down
14. “More awakened, realised and enlightened souls”
thumbs up
Belarus is the top contender in the the list of suicides per 100,000 people per year and China is in the top of new millionaires per 100,000 people per year, Sannyasins have the top slot in the enlightenment game.
15. Capacity of self criticism
Thumbs up
i have not seen a single group, cult or religion who has this much openness to criticism, so much so even the Master comes under the hammer. This brave heartiness is unprecedented.
Quotes from the woman , writer Anais Nin (lover of Henry Miller):
Living never wore one out so much as the effort not to live.
——–
You will make mistakes. And they are right too.
———
We do not grow absolutely, chronologically. We grow sometimes in one dimension, and not in another; unevenly. We grow partially. We are relative. We are mature in one realm, childish in another. The past, present, and future mingle and pull us backward, forward, or fix us in the present. We are made up of layers, cells, constellations.
——————
Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death.
——————-
When one is pretending, the entire body revolts.
—————-
Music melts all the separate parts of our bodies together.
—————–
I only believe in fire. Life. Fire. Being myself on fire I set others on fire. Never death. Fire and life. Les Jeux.
————–
In chaos, there is fertility.
—————-
The possession of knowledge does not kill the sense of wonder and mystery. There is always more mystery.
—————-
—————–
note on Anais Nin
She also had a consensual adult incestuous relationship with her Spanish father and wrote about it too.
” Papa,… si papa ,si mas fuerte papa..si si…me gusta mucho ….”
Viva la vida loca !
Hey Fartbrain Bubbie, you stink even digital, all the way to Florida, if the wind comes from the Northwest. Maybe take a shower once in a while or a bath in a river. The Ranch was Big Muddy Ranch and now we have Big Mouth Bubbie from Pre-school. You learned nothing from Sheela etc. but you are LOST like her in Lala land.
Hey Anus Anand, thanks for comparing me to “light”!! And you a mosquito, hey- didn’t I call you that last week on another thread? Too bad you’re not creative—-Something your 35 years of meditation has helped you in NOT becoming!!!! Your barnacle covered rock is waiting, you’ll have to share it with a crab though—perfect match- two bottom feeders!!!! hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
Wasn’t sterilization pushed upon sannyasins or the very least, the “in” thing, both at pune 1 and the ranch? Not to have kids because we are ALL basket cases? Yet, crazies still think they aren’t the ones who are crazy and go out and have kids!!!! The “real” world does seep into the sannyas world and the denial and madness continues….. take a bow all of you!!!!
“sannyasins know how to totally freak out with their eyes closed without bumping into the next guy or girl. even hippies and ravers cant do that.
thumbs up.”
This is So true! How do we manage!?
Fare point that we don’t really stick together against the world, we manage to do it between ourselves so no even need to go and preach in the world. We will claim our enlightened ones, poor sh…t over them, laugh at each other, criticise and prove constantly who understands Osho best. No unity whatsoever.
One thing I did wonder about was kinds. Many sannyasins did not have kids. Do they regret now being lonely and unenlightened? Or those who have kids regret their “mistakes” made?
I have a feeling that many didn’t have kids not because of the evolution of their consciousness and deep thinking process. Simply due to them being too high too often….
re pouring shit over enlightened ones.
chetna,
andrew cohen whom you enquired about was not a sannyasin but a papaji of lucknow self-appointed successor.
papa didn`t agree.
nor did andrew cohen`s (jewish)mother who wrote a book “mother of god”about what a power hungry fraud he is.
all credit t monty python.
true purveyors of timeless wisdom:
“he`s not the messiah,he`s a very naughty boy”
chetna,
sure some sannyasin women regretted not having kids.
and regretted being part of a movement that should have lasted for the whole life,but dropped dead even before the founder.
que sera sera….
the sangha flaked out.
so its back to individuation and
frank sinatra…
regrets,i`ve had a few
but then again,
too few to mention.
but more,much more than this
i did it my way……
Frank, you make me laugh! Thanks for the info on Cohen. He is making money on rich boys it seems who think by paying more, they will get THE best! There is a market, in fact my Colleague-banker has asked about him. Even if I try to explain to him your view, I would not be able!
That’s another Thumbs Up. Sannyasins understand sannaysins, no matter how weird their conversations are. You try these topics with my investment bankers….he he he I will be put into the hospital pretty quickly.
chetna,
dont try and influence your colleague on my behalf.
i cannot speak for a merchant banker.
he has his own karma to fulfill,which very well may include being shaken down by a dodgy jewish spiritual shoplifter……..
you know,like powerful people like to be whipped and humiliated by a dominatrix.
its a kind of rebalancing for them.
i am sure the same applies for bankers who go to cohen.
he will deliver the goods…
if he doesn`t get busted by his mum first.
As I said even if I tried-no chance.He will have to taste it himself as you said
so then…
the right merchant banker
and his puffed up new york yanker
took a holiday on a cruise liner
that turned out to be an oil tanker.
in bombay they weighed anchor
where the captain of the tanker
turned out to be
a right shiva shanker
that guy zen cohen needs a few strokes of the old shit-wiping stick…
spot on frank!
now, for the answer to last week’s saturday night quiz question, my dear friends…
What did Agatha Christie and Winston Churchill have in common, not known to most…?
Answer:
They both were half American! Rich New Yorkers at that!
A.C. on her father’s side, and Churchill on his mother’s.
You may well ask, what the hell does this have to do with Osho and sannyas…now, don’t react so quickly…
you see…
also, little known is the fact that…
Poonjaji, who is well known in the sannyas circles, and was the reputed guru of Cohen (no, not Brian — Andy, the new yorker!)…Poonjaji’s mother was the sister of a well known Indian sadhu/guru named Ramateertha, who lived a very short life of 33 years, like Jesus. I think he committed suicide. So, Ramateertha was Poonjaji’s uncle. He did not just drop off the apple tree in this great guru game. There is lineage, there are connections here…
Osho has included Ramateertha in his Books I Have Loved series, and talks about him, quite negatively as to his life as a spiritual man, but positively as to his writings, oddly enough…
now, you see, we are inching closer here to something….what it is, is a little hazy, a bit smokey…but, let’s all hang in there….keep digging deeper comrades, the drama is not over yet….
More words of wisdom from Monty Python troupe: “Sit on my face and tell me that you love me, I’ll sit on your face and tell you how I feel….”. True words of wisdom indeed!!! Something sannyasins of old know too well!!
Mass marketing and corporatism, sannyasins also are very familiar with…from all the corporate marketing and advertising executives Osho had around him from the old Bombay days to the current crew including Dhyanam and company in the Bay area, for example… looking every which way to to shovel the money from sannyasins pockets to theirs, by marketing “New Age” wonder garbage.. shit that has no benefit, placebos work just as well. From one hustle to another… tell me where does love, meditativeness and compassion jive with ripping people off just to satisfy a hungry ego? A contradiction in terms.. Love and capitalism.. are we pathetic!!!???
well,oshobob,
i thought it was that they were both dyslexic(true)
but maybe they just didnt know how to spell colour,humour and dialogue!!
well theres a lineage from punyapapaji to cohen.
its been passed from one dysfunctional family to another by the sound of it!
in the immortal words of swamiji sly stonananda:
its a family affair
and blood is thicker than mud….
Hey Fartbrain Bubbie, I bought Horseradish at Whole Foods and it had your name on it: ‘Bubbies’. So you are into a solid side business beside assaulting sannyasins and Osho lovers on these pages!
oh yes Bubbie, rumbling at capitalism again from your hut in Oregon with the leaking roof…uh uh the bad capitalists are robbing your (empty) pockets….
good thing for you: “when you have nothing you have nothing to loose”.
And poor Dhanyam selling Osho books and CDs and subsidizing the Vih Connection…bla bla bla the usual Bubbie stink….
bubbs and anand are at it again,
like cats and dogs,
like abbott and costello,
pretty soon some people might get the idea that they are one and the same person. hmmmm?
or, they could be a tag-team putting on a show for us…
could it be, is it possible…?
I was looking at that list frank, that shantam and others added to, on the thumbsups/thumbdown, yo/no areas of sannyasin areas of good at/ bad at , and it looks like what it comes down to is,
sex, drugs, music and dancing,
or as it used to be called in the old days,
sex, drugs, and rock ‘n roll.
the other stuff, like meditation, enlightened people, self-criticism, etc. are all individual perceptions — no real consensus on any of them…no two people can agree on these points.
all very old traditions actually,
sex — ancient, ancient…
drugs — same as above
dance to the music…what culture hasn’t?
from the sly stone-age man to sly and the family stone, not much has changed it seems…
Oshobob..meditation is missing and that was the only real thing Osho always
advertised to all of us.
..and yes who is the cat and who is the dog, or is it cat and mouse? and believe me Bob, there is no way that we are one and the same person. It really stretches
the Eastern wisdoms of ‘we are all buddhas, we are all one’…for me to think that me and Bubbie are the same …I feel ashamed to live in the same continent with him, although thousands of miles apart.
Even in while in your mama’s womb you were ashamed A. Anand– nothing new there!!! but you’re not ashamed of being a fraud!!! You’re a pretentious little shit, and you’re dimmed witted, an imbecile, and definitely a stooge. A stooge for the greedy business people who jumped into “Eastern Mysticism”, so they can hide behind mantras and meditations to fuck the ordinary person in the ass with their embellished egos. You’re nothing more than a lackey, a pee on, and you sure do love taking it in the ass from your capitalist boyfriends!!! By now the circumference of your anus is equal to that of the earth……. You’d make a great suppository salesman!!!
Shantam Prem, Your raging hormonal comments directed at me has at long last brought to light the repressed indian side of you out!!! Now i know the real you… All of that stupid shit you’ve been posting and those articles you’ve written have been exposed as insincere ramblings of a deeply repressed person from a deep repressed country…. nice try, it did take a while for another fraud to be exposed… What’s that now, 11 or 12 down and how many more to go? i lost count… It’s been worth while though, i hope there are others doing this kind of thing with other “spiritual” organizations and their members. So many fools, so little time.
anand, you keep trying to find where i live and my name, better hire sherlock holmes, for it seems only the dead can lead you to salvation…. bon appetite with your shit stick!!
mengamuk
Stockton CA!
So much hugging, but where is your heart?
To day, one month after the German Bakery blast, as a witness of what happened there, I’m shocked about the way the management of the Osho Resort reacted on all this. Still they haven’t shown any sign of compassion or tribute to the grieve of so many. The only public statements are about their own interests and safety. This in contrast to many sannyasins there is no warmth, no compassion, not even a minute of silence to give space to what happened “outside”.
It appears even worse. An Italian sannyasin who asked that evening to turn down the disco music to inform the crowed about the disaster that happened, became expelled from the resort by Sudhir on authority of the chairman because of violating the rules. There is so much hugging in this resort, but I wonder where is their heart when it really matters? .
A member of the board, Garimo, asked about this, she answered: “What is it about? It is a little café on the corner which was hit because it was not protected. Well, we were not hit as resort because we are good protected.” A comparable attitude came across from an other board member, Amrito, the former physician of Osho, when questioned about the administration system of the resort that wasn’t to open fast. A Taiwanese sannyasin Jack Huang badly injured in the blast explicitly asked us to call his wife at home. That night the reply at the resort-gate was: “We won’t interrupt the video of Osho or disturb the White Robe meditation for this” According to the physician, the next day, there hadn’t been any hurry to that call because at that moment it was in the middle of the night in Taiwan. “We are not going to phone Granny when a bomb explodes” he stated (reeking of alcohol at 11 hrs in the morning).
As sannyasin I am ashamed about this team (“the inner circle”). Are these the man and women, “the chosen few”, to guard Osho’s heritage? Not able to share emotions and grieve when it happens in the real world, outside their courses, trainings and meditations?
Looking back it may be less astonishing to some. I understand, their chairman, the Canadian Jayesh (Michael) O’Byrne, never appeared in public during the 20 years he is on this position to be a leader. Is he and his crew capable at all to stand for the love and all the other things that visitors, sannyasins and workers invest in this resort?
I feel ashamed to see this team, self locked and lame to show normal human emotions. An inner circle which seemingly forgets that the resort is a guest in this young and proud nation, whose people are largely hit by this terrible event.
That’s maybe why I feel the urge to apologize publically on behalf of this “Inner circle”, the caretakers of Osho’s heritage, who apparently got lost in their businesses, personal fights and interests meanwhile loosing the most precious thing they had…their heart. The only thing that really can keep this heritage alive, spiritual, humane and even economical.
I think this team has to learn again and maybe to fresh up its ranks. If not, this story will end up by itself. Probably as an empty heavily armed fortress, an unsafe place to be, physically, but above all for the soul?
VIgyano (Michiel) Dorenbosch, 13th of March 2010, Netherlands
beautiful answer from osho to someone who did not understand osho,s view on family
The fifth question from book : Come Follow to Me Vol.1 #10
,
questioner………You said that the family is the first thing to renounce. I don’t understand why we were served prasad on the day of your father’s initiation.
osho ……The family has to be renounced, that’s true. I have renounced my family, but my family is rare: they haven’t renounced me. And it is rare, I say, because it has not happened before.
Jesus’ father never came to Jesus to be initiated. John the Baptist initiated many, but his own father never came to be initiated. Krishna’s father was not a disciple to him.
My father is rare – not because he is my father: he is simply rare. There was every possibility….
As human nature goes, there is every possibility that a father cannot come and bow down to his own son. It is almost humanly impossible. He has done that. You will not find a parallel in the whole history of man. And it may not happen again.
But you are blind and you cannot see the fact, so even the prasad became a problem to you. Just think of bowing down to your own son, coming to the feet of your own son, being initiated. A tremendous humbleness, a tremendous innocence is needed.
That is one of the most difficult things in human relationships. It is not accidental that Jesus’ father never came to him. It is simple: to believe in the son to whom you have given the birth, whom you have seen from the very first day, from his first cry – how can you believe that he has become enlightened? Your own son? – impossible. Your own blood bone? – impossible. How can you think that he has become something, someone from whom you have to learn?
A son remains a son…and to a father he remains a child always, because the distance always is the same. If my father was twenty when I was born, that twenty years’ distance has remained the same; it will always remain the same. If I am forty-five, he will be sixty-five. I cannot come closer to him in age. He will be always twenty years more experienced than me.
And to come back to me and to surrender…. You cannot realize the significance of it! That is why you ask such foolish questions. It is one of the rarest moments.
And I again repeat: my father is rare – not because he is my father. He’s simply rare.
For this day´s breakfast, i am enjoying the last days´s post of Chetna, copied below.
Some spice from Boobie´s kitchen has also fallen in the cup, but this needs to be ignored.
“I think the fundamental problem is that people do not get inspired, neither old nor new sannyasins nor those wanting to join.
Guys, when you came to Osho what made you stay? I would imagine His presence, the magic, the silence, the mystery. Without Him it would not have happened!
And what did he say?-“I will dissolve in my people” for the new comers.
Unfortunately, not many sannyasins trust this and are not connected to the Master. So when new people come, where will they get the juice from? Many people need nourishment and support, and if they do not get it they will leave.
So to me the problem is simple-meditate and connect to Osho!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So Alok, young people do not find Osho in His sannyasins. Arrogant, angry, boring old stock does not appeal.
Thanks God, there are great sannaysins-old and new! They flower and they inspire.
Books are good in the beginning, but without meditation and love not much will happen.
And those saying “I do not need meditation” are simply unconscious about it and immature.”
Sometime it just astonishes me when a comparatively new person sees the symptoms and the roots of the problem in much clearer sense, than the professionals who were doing the apprenticeship at the feet of the great Master.
If Dynamic till 21 days silence brings light and empowers natural vision, we should have given to the world, a organisation which inspires the world motivates for a change accordingly.
Ours is a case study of leadership failure. Real estate developer is playing violin on people´s heart. Naturally it looks like Russia and surrounding countries, with all the natural resources controlled by Oligarchs.
it has been 20 years that osho left his body. sometimes it is hard to understand what is going on exactly with sannyas movement . lots of sannyasins lost their turst in
lifestyle which osho gave to all of us……at the same time many are still continue to live that life style .
pune commune used to be source of osho energy , i have seen many osho centers and osho meditation camps, .those places does not really deliver those feeling which commune had in the past .
is it natural what is going on ?
is there something we should do or just wait and watch untill it is all over .
remmber we are running out of time fellow sannyasins.
that is all i want to share right now….you are free to hit me and critisize me , even you can call me idoit , but do something before it is all finished. remmber person like osho comes to this planet earth only once in thousands of years and no one from us is going to live that long
if you do not know what to do? ask me i am always here to share my feeling, but at the same time you are free to ignore me and avoid me……but i will not stop loving osho and his beloved sannyasins and will try to give best to world of osho . osho deserve the best and so are his lovers
Guys, when you came to Osho what made you stay? I would imagine His presence, the magic, the silence, the mystery. Without Him it would not have happened!
Guys, when you came to Osho what made you stay? I would imagine His presence, the magic, the silence, the mystery. Without Him it would not have happened!
Chetna has a asked very reasonable question , and i think it will be a interesting story to know from different people who have spend few weeks to few years around Him and His people.
It is a true fact that without OSho and His presence, the magic, the silence, the mystery would not have happened.
And also it would not have happened without the presence of multitude of the people from around the globe.
During the last and final phase of around 38 months of His life, He has given to the development and expansion of His work at Pune. and every time He has shown confidence and trustful energy that His work will touch the sky, because what He is offering is the longing of the human heart.
And see the satisfaction on His face, when He feels happy about His people, educated and articulated one. Jesus left only few dozen people behind and work flowered, Buddha was walking in the state of Bihar among the Biharis and somehow the work went all over.
Till the end of the millennium, work was happening with the same energy and vigour as it was in His life time. Master was not missed that much as momentum was maintained, and people were coming for months.
The key was that everybody was feeling involved. Even when People were just for weeks after years of work, still they were coming HOME.
17, Koregaon Park was a petrol pump to refill the tank. It was a Sanctuary for the travelers… It was a continuation of poetical recital.
Somewhere in between the MIND, the articulate mind entered. It opened the offices in New York and Zürich and soul started dying. Hogo Chavez kind of people wanted to confine the message of love and freedom into the dark alleyes of escort agencies.
What we see today is the domination of mind over the heart. When His empty chair was presiding the gathering in Buddha Hall, it was instinctive. To take it away was the decision made by few through their calculative mind.
Without hesitation i will say that some kind of correction was also needed. few loop holes were needed to be repaired. Financial irregularities and taking freedom as a license to focus only on relating aspect.
But here again doctors went over board. In their over confidence, after discovering a little limp doctors simply cut the breast without following the established procedure, and wonder of the wonder is that prodigal sons have amputated the other breast!
Call any vegetable and the chances are good the vegetable will respond to you.
Frank Zappa
“a vegetable garden looks so promising and exciting in the beginning.
then,little by little,you realise that you get nothing but more and more vegetables.”
—gertrude stein on ashrams
yes,oshobob,its old stuff.
there are serious anthropologists and historians who reckon that the first attempts to grow stuff in prehistory by hunter gatherers involved the growing of ganga and root vegetables to make booze with…..
the kitchen garden came a few thousand years later.
when they got the munchies,i suppose….
i guess these were the same guys that osho described as being the guys who discovered meditation by accident whilst they were having sex.
probably on some killer weed,and suddenly thought,f**k me,i justwent totally out of my mind there,lets see if i can do that again …..
Osho’s vision was not for the small family, but for the commune. Even if the big commune in Rajneeshpuram did fail, small groups of sannyasins could continue to flower.
This part of his vision has fallen apart somehow. We went back into the nuclear family trip. Back to our roots, back to our old home countries. Somehow reality settled in, money, health insurance, security..and the vision faded.
In that way we as old sannysins failed our own dreams. And Koregaon Park 17
also became a institution of sorts with the politics from above shutting the door to the dream.
So about what is left of this dream
To day, one month after the German Bakery blast, as a witness of what happened there, I’m shocked about the way the management of the Osho Resort reacted on all this. They haven’t shown any sign of compassion or tribute to the grieve of so many. The only public statements are about their own interests and safety. This in contrast to many sannyasins there is no warmth, no compassion, not even a minute of silence to give space to what happened “outside”.
It appears even worse. An Italian sannyasin who asked that evening to turn down the disco music to inform the crowed about the disaster that happened, became expelled from the resort by on authority of the chairman because of violating the rules. There is so much hugging in this resort, but I wonder where is their heart when it really matters? .
A member of the board, asked about this, she answered: “What is it about? It is a little café on the corner which was hit because it was not protected. Well, we were not hit as resort because we are good protected.” A comparable attitude came across from an other board member, the former physician of Osho, when questioned about the administration system of the resort that wasn’t to open fast. A Taiwanese sannyasin badly injured in the blast explicitly asked us to call his wife at home. That night the reply at the resort-gate was: “We won’t interrupt the video of Osho or disturb the White Robe meditation for this” According to the physician, the next day, there hadn’t been any hurry to that call because at that moment it was in the middle of the night in Taiwan. “We are not going to phone Granny when a bomb explodes” he stated.
As sannyasin I am ashamed about this team (“the inner circle”). Are these the man and women, “the chosen few”, to guard Osho’s heritage? Not able to share emotions and grieve when it happens in the real world, outside their courses, trainings and meditations?
Looking back it may be less astonishing to some. I understand, their chairman, the Canadian Jayesh (Michael) O’Byrne, never appeared in public during the 20 years he is on this position to be a leader. Is he and his crew capable at all to stand for the love and all the other things that visitors, sannyasins and workers invest in this resort?
I feel ashamed to see this team, self locked and lame to show normal human emotions. An inner circle which seemingly forgets that the resort is a guest in this young and proud nation, whose people are largely hit by this terrible event.
That’s maybe why I feel the urge to apologize publically on behalf of this “Inner circle”, the caretakers of Osho’s heritage, who apparently got lost in their businesses, personal fights and interests meanwhile loosing the most precious thing they had…their heart. The only thing that really can keep this heritage alive, spiritual, humane and even economical.
I think this team has to learn again and maybe to fresh up its ranks. If not, this story will end up by itself. Probably as an empty heavily armed fortress, an unsafe place to be, physically, but above all for the soul
Drs. Michiel Dorenbosch (Vigyano), 13th of March 2010, Netherlands
hey anand no disrespect.
but what you are describing is also known as old age..
you are born,have dreams,they fade,you die.
no problem.
cheer up.
when life looks jolly rotten
there`s something you`ve forgotten
and that`s to laugh and smile and dance and sing….
you came from nothing,
you`re going back to nothing
what have you got to lose?
nothing
and nothing is better than nothing.
unless you have some new inspirations to revitalize osho’s visions, anand…
a penny for your thoughts.
(i asked for a million, got nothing, but that’s what i started with anyway, so i ended up with what i had in the beginning — nothing).
nothin aint worth nothin
but it`s free…..
me and Bubbie Ma Ghee…(groan…ok, ok, anyone for a bacon buttie then…?)
but seriously folks….
it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for a group to propagate a way of life (e.g., communal living) if that said group (e.g., Osho sannyasins) failed at that way of life on the big stage (e.g., Rajneeshpuram), and do not, nor have they for the last 20 years, lived that way of life themselves. And now they are in their 60′s. How do you expect anyone to believe in the idea? Would you?
Oshobob,
I have ideas.
I don’t think they’re communal so much as collectively independent.
but remember… I’m a californian.
-g
oh, and I don’t picture rajnesshpuram as a failure so much as practice.
Garimo I agree: practice in road building, cleaning and being subject of power trips. The real thing was always happening in 17 Koregaon Park until January 19th, 1990. Then the music died.
Thanks for the reminder Frank.
Vigyano, nice written and good observed. Unfortunately the Pune ashram has since the beginning been run by a group of sannyasins, who were power hungry, showed no heart nor compassion and ban anybody not confirming with their dictatorial style.
Just a few people (Jayesh and Amrito mainly) control all the money being made
through Osho International in London and the Pune Resort without any control from outside.
It is a mafia style operation, not a meditation resort.
In the face of terrorism at their door steps they showed no compassion of any kind, but continued ‘business as usual’.
Sannyasins all over the world have realized this and continue to live Osho’s dream outside of these few acres at Koregaon Park.
vigyano……..i am very touched by your posting. you are man with golden heart…….i wish everyone in osho management was capable to feel and see your way…………..but unfortunality that is not the case.
aftermath of german backery blast proves that management do not care a bit about osho lovers and westerners who really turst them and exect help like that taiwanis guy………..amrito is person you can imagine when it comes to help
that guy is sick and needs some treatment or some beating……..less than that he will not change and will not be able to see …….even little child can see how sannyasins are feeling all over globe , but this guy is so blind in the power trip .
well i hope his time in this earth finished soon and he might end up in inlanks hospital, perheps then he understand what injered people went throught after blast …….it is true commune management does very liitle or nothing after blast …………it is ashamed to see that most beautiful place on earth is run by bunch of crooks and greedy basterds
anand, you are so right about management ………..i like that you understand them so clear ……….you seems like men of clearity and man with vision and far vision……..i am doing the same thingh like many of you . trying to live osho vision outside of those few acers which are spoiled by dirty people like amriot and jayesh
vigyano,,,,,,,,,,,,you said in your posting perheps this team in commune might start up fresh other wise soon it will be all over……… i agree with your statement.
my experience says that management will never start over again although some wise people inside have realize their mistakes , but i doubt that they will ever apolize to sannyas world and will start again fresh…………..it needs guts to do that which they do not have
One more point…
WE in dynamic meditation, WE have
This stage called ”catharsis” where WE can let out ALL negative/positive emotions and thoughts. Also WE have meditation leaders to support our process.
In the end of the meditation there are no emotions, no words, no Internet. Just we. But that is my path; you can buy my book about it latter.
In this family i watched, with pain and fascination, the hang-ups, fuck-ups and dysfunctions of my parents and my grand-parents manifesting in my daughter and my grandchildren. So, as most sannyassin fathers are you absolving yourself of responsibility? As if it was your given right to leave the children you had helped create and leave others to raise them while you fu###d around exploring. No wonder there were some tensions when you visited your daughter! Enough bu#####t! there are so many f#####d up sannyassin kids who were left floundering while their parents “found” themselves. I include myself in this. Haridasi