This week our invited guest, Swami Prem Martyn, is attempting to answer the question “can Advaiters be Carnivores?”
Hello Listeners,
Let’s cast our tear-filled eyes again on that most difficult subject…being or going VEG.
You see it strikes me, especially when on the receiving end of a carnivore’s ire, that advaeaters or advaitas to be specific have an almost unholy fear of delivering their lifestyle choices as a panacea for the world. All except one person, or spirit or fellow human being… That person being your friend and mine, Mr Osho.
Osho in contrast to many of today’s SELF seekers took the world of non-duality onto the dinner plate, as well as every where else , by insisting through awareness (of course) that veggies really had the finger of truth on the trigger of this eternal duel.
In this his message is uncompromising..you walk in the door of the resort in Pune and there it is…Veggy Knowingness..yes red robes and all, but, veggy pride it is. Now of course when attempting to describe this state of affairs to others there’s always the proviso that one ‘Should not’ proselytise or berate. Responsibility yes, blameworthiness , no. In true truth-seeking any change will come about because of a shift in consciousness.
In the urge to find solutions to ‘collective seeking’ Osho was keenly aware of the implications of going beyond the here and now and into the there and then of lifestyle choices. That was his forte and gladly so. He liked a good ruck. And in the Indian tradition of ‘Veggies against everybody else’ .
I mean for somewhere to enjoy your spiritually ethical holiday it’s great to look around India.
Well it would be if it wasn’t for the overcrowding and death orientated sexual repression in stifling heat and diesel fumes. Yes, on second thoughts it’s not a brilliant ad for vegetarians, but in my books its better than the average Eskimo diet that is plastically wrapped and shrouded from its shambolic sources in the shopping aisles of your local supermarket. If every supermarket had some sound slaughterhouse effects and videos going, (instead of those for electric bog-brushes) then ‘people’ including the odd part-time truth seeker would think twice and maybe for the first time..Or move to Alaska to be Free..
Of course the tricky bit for advaitists, or some post-Osho self-seekers is that they really don’t welcome challenging lifestyle questions, preferring the sabotage of the dysfunctional identity of the ‘questioners assumptions’ as a get-out tactic when underfire.
Not Osho.. Sure he understood the proselytising part of veggy philosophy well, casting his anti-Gandhian ego attacking wit far and wide. And I concur, that those people do the animal-perspective position little service for they are easily spotted for hiding theirambitionsbehind the doopy-dopey animal kindness personality lies of many who would otherwise be mentally sectioned..( I volunteered at PETA, and I know how insane they generally are as people). But ….that doesn’t give advantage to the hypocrisy amongst those who would argue about Osho saying this or that for their own psychic benefit whilst in the next phrase ‘be just popping out for a beef sandwich cos they’re starving’. Personally I take it to the next level.. I don’t have friends who are meat eaters and I don’t sit in the same room with them without stating the fact. This happened with those fools at ERESSOS , GREECE ,Osho centre who are regularly known to salivate and feast on slaughtered carcass, then heavily manipulate Osho togetherness and hugging so they feel good about themselves. Basically people like that are vampires and by this article deserve to be outed.
People like carnivorous Mooji should be openly mocked and barracked on their way into another hushed hall of truth seekers.I don’t want or need his version of reality, and to know that he’s doing better than me , and …anyone for a kebab ? Moreover if it’s just the universe doing its thing through him , then its my chance to tell the universe exactly what I think ..and how. I as a human being have a choice.
The main message is that if I choose to blame ‘them’,(carnivorous others) it may well be my myopic shortcoming , but if they choose to remain hypocritical idiots it’s theirs (and the universe’s). And no amount of quoteable Osho hoopla will defend the indefensible injustices of this ‘ugly world’ (J. Krishnamurti) …..whether the universe gives a toss or not.
If you are in doubt as to what consensus can do when faced with obscurantist religious zealot identity then look no further than Holland where the Party for the Animals has drawn the anger of the representatives of the 1 million Muslims and the 40 thousand Jews who oppose even stunning as a pre-murder requirement of sentient large mammals, by the Parliamentary banning of their halal and kosher barbaric killing procedures.
Hoo bloody ray !
We are the inheritors of a humanist society, and yes also there are other important ethics and actions..judge those for yourself in the light of justice and making the planet a little bit more beautiful before we go….
Thank you for listening……
and now for this weeks concert by Gustav Mahler who was Jewish and Vegetarian……
Marty.
Agree,broadly; with everything you say,
but; do have problems with the veggie fascist bit,
but that is, if I’ve read you correctly, part of the
issue you are raising here.
(I’ve come across people who are fascists against
vegetarians, when I worked in a Vegetarian
restaurant,during my art school days.
Some of the staff were meat head fascists in that place.
Never said much to them about eating meat, but I did
give them, well her, a hard time about the attitude. )
My own inclination is to leave people alone. Maybe if people werent constantly trying to deal with so many isms, rules, from so many quarters?????
Hi Arpana,
the full unedited text of my above article is to be found on the caravanserai posts by sannyasnews ; it has more puns and thoughts and only takes two hours to read.
I will be as usual replying here though to any comments, as I’m not a caravanserist member.. ta, M
Martyn Wager (alias of Pascal Wager):
Even though if you are stupid there is no point in not reading martyn post because the probabilites are that after reading it half way either you will have back your wits or you will forget about enlightenment
Win Win in both the situation
beyond
rumi – non rumi
veggie – non veggie
caravanserist – non carvanserist
there is a field I’ll meet you there
Kavita
did you just watched Rockstar or read Rumi?
no tilopa I didn’t watch rockstar & who doesn’t read rumi ? (well you dont need to answer that . . . its just an expression ) Iam . . . mostly in the (my) moment
well now there’s three of us I think a song to celebrate our collective consciousness is in order…..
the lovely lilly allen inspiringly sings against the dumbbell regressives of the world..and for the spirit of fun, provocation and change……
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
enjoy…today and always…
thanks for your posting fellow vegan M – so much to respond to – so many tricky ethical bogs to transverse – will leave that for a later post – for right now am busy cooking a sublime french lentil and sweet potato casserole with masses of garlic and herbs and (vegan) red wine. Mmmm.
ps – I’m not trying to be facetious here – just honest
nice … and i bet you didn’t have to look at anything awful or consider your role in another’s miserable last minutes…..
, between wanting to eat something and enjoying dinner and going to the toilet…unlike mooji and other spiritual carnivores who do that everytime they come out of a discourse on joy and oneness….
thanks for the compliment.. it made me want to describe the full truth in details for all Oshiters out there….sort of bottom line veggy…
some people say i’m weird.. .. wonder why…
rajni,
it must be the word ‘facetious’….it started me off with a non-sanitized version of reality…
M – When I get really pissed off I often resort to the same ‘bottom line’ tactics – ‘ So an animal is killed just so you can eat it and then shit it out the following morning’.
I’m working on keeping my mouth closed ; o
Martyn – I understand you being tempted to ‘tell the whole truth in full detail’ about the face on one’s plate – but as we all know, people, for the most part, do not wish their eyes to be forcibly opened. They do not want to make the connection. And then there are others who know the connection but deny its relevance – viz, they are ‘just’ animals; they’re food not sentient beings; we ‘need’ to eat meat; meat keeps us sexy ( don’t get me started on this one); human beings are carnivores by birth; vegos are all mad moralising fuckers and puritans (and of course, it then follows that vegos are anti sex and ‘fun’); what are animals there for unless for ‘us’ to eat and exploit in as many ways as we can; what else can we eat; what else can I wear; but it’s ‘only’ milk/cheese/butter; you vegos think animals are more important than humans – ad infinitum
I’ve been a vegan for around 10 years and prior to that a vegetarian for 30. It took me some time to open my eyes fully and see and to make a personal ethical decision. And sure, my ‘life’ has changed. It’s become quieter. And more isolated. And simpler. But that’s ok. My inbox is always full of petitions to sign: Save the tiger; Save the wolf; Save the Canadian geese; Save the dogs in Thailand; Ban the sale of dog and cat fur; Support the gorillas/bears/elephants; Stop the seal slaughter; Ban duck shooting; End vivisection now; Ban live export – I sign and sigh. I do what I can. I make ‘ethical’ decisions. I walk the line. I get angry and despondent. I have made my bed, as they say. I worry about the clearing of forests for palm oil and the killing of orangutans. I wonder where my food comes from – I read the arguments – both sides. I consider the fair trade options. The corruption. The death of small children. The refugees. The possums in my back yard. The birds and their young in my neighbourhood. The sound of chainsaws. I do not think a person can be totally defined by their eating choices any more than by their sexuality, but –
Of course people like me can be the butt of jokes – very easy to do. I could do it myself. But I have, as I said, made my bed. I understand the activists. And they have achieved much. But if people do not want to look at the graphic images …
As for Osho – he was a Jain by birth. As we probably all know the strict Jains are 120% vegan, eschewing even root vegetables so as not to cause harm to the plant by killing it – by pulling it out of the ground. And not to cause harm to all the insects and tiny beings in the dirt. No harm to any living creature. No animal sacrifice. Unlike the Kali sect – every five years the festival whereby 250,000 animals are sacrificed in one gruelling ‘event’. Book your tickets now and save!
When I ‘found’ Osho, or he ‘found’ me, the no meat dictum was not an issue. It was what I expected. How could it be any other way? In the various schools of Buddhism of course the issue of meat eating is not so simple. It’s actually very complicated. As is their attitude to non-human animals in general. In some schools it is ok to eat meat unless you actually witnessed the creature being killed. Nice avoidance policy that one. There is also a group called dharma for animals that works to try and stop the cruelty towards animals in Buddhist circles. I will leave it for those interested to investigate for themselves – there is much online.
M – So where was I? Oh yes. Osho. Oh Yes. He discoursed about the word Compassion as you no doubt know. Again, not so simple a word. Again he problematizes it. As only he can. But to respond to your post finally – I agree that running off to MG road or anywhere else, after listening to a discourse, for a feast of ‘burnt offering’, is to be in denial. All the hugs are then but empty ‘corporate’ gestures. I’m uncomfortable saying this. We each make our bed.
But then again – just because you don’t eat meat doesn’t necessarily mean that those ‘hugs’ are any more ‘real’ does it.
Rajni …real hug with seventh day adventist vegan.. or real hug with meat eating sannyasin….scruples duples eh?
…..There’s an Italian sannyasin restaurant serving deer somewhere in Italy…I couldn’t believe what version of Osho’s vision this was ….
so even in saying Osho there seems there is no guarantee of anything….and degeneratively so.
but if anyone has some really ultra cool Osho destination, do post your experience here….i’m always open to rumours of collectively run veggy fun places.. i hear the Angsbacka festival in Sweden is very cool…(no pun intended)
By the way – in my small post after my long spiel when I mentioned vego hugs not necessarily being any more ‘real’ than meat eater hugs I should have said ‘one’ not ‘you’ – wasn’t directed at ‘you’. Just in case you thought it was. Sometimes this site is like a therapy group. And what seventh day adventists have to do with it I don’t know? Aren’t you caught up in dualism again here? Enough for today… as they say. Time for a glass of cognac now … and a rollie ; 0
M – as for serving deer in a so-called Osho restaurant … what to say? Speechless … or is that Voiceless? ; (
“Osho’s message is uncompromising..you walk in the door of the resort in Pune and there it is…Veggy Knowingness.”
That’s the best line of your post, Martyn….
I never had any knowledge or experience of vegetarianism until I met Osho….
it was always amusing to me to see how fellow communards dealt with the issue of compulsory vegetarianism! In Medina, most of the hierarchy used to go for a bacon sandwich at the local cafe on Sunday mornings! In Medina’s Body Centre near England’s lane, where there was an absence of supervision!, many was the time I met communards returning from the fish and chip shop…
In Pune one, very few people were fully vegetarian. Even ashramites were regularly seen in MG road at the various meat eating joints…
How is your son by the way, he was a right old fruiterian the last time I saw him in 1988/9?
Thank for the post. Found it stimulating.
ta parmartha.. my favourite line is the closing one (over on the caravanserai version….this weeks conundrum :
”the opposite of giving a stuff is…..?’
I especially don’t espouse imposed fruitarianism for kids.. I went to court over the issue actually at the time….and my son is fine and freely veggy.. and 29 years old so i guess he’s big enough to tell his dad to get stuffed…if he wanted to…
on the same line of enquiry how many ho hsuan kids remained veggy.. .. even at the most recent reunion in 2006 i really couldnt say….i know some of ‘em haven’t .. but i have no idea of what effect the sometimes awful veg cooks at ko hsuan had on their mindset…many adults actually regularly murdered spaghetti’s cooking time , taking me way past my boiling point…
i know some of em (the ex ko-swanners) are zenophobic though.. one mention of the word ‘meditation’ and they scarper in the opposite direction….can’t blame em really if you knew their parents
Finally it is becoming clear, world is a Maya; made from the same stuff as dreams. After all we live more and more in virtual world. Due to various circumstances, Osho sannyas has become the first official religion of this virtual world.
In this illusiory world, does it matter, whether the dust unto the dust body survives wtih vegies or vegie eating non-vegies!
Any way world’s top most religions are growing and expanding whereas veggie chewing sannyasins are still occupied with the puzzle, are we the religion or the religiousity!
H. G. Wells (1866-1946)
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.
H G Wells being an ardent vegetarian……
simples !
H.G. Wells is only a Masonic prophet. Friend of Huxley and Disney, all are Freemasons. Thats what i am talking about, the up coming new world order many expect. This structure will be both socialist and fascist together, this goal is not new. That has only to do, if we like or dont like. The old masonic structure and vision of rebuilding the temple of Solomon, but before says the prophecy, the Temple must be rebuilt.
ps.: I made a mistake… first this new masonic world order because of the prophecy for rebuilding this Temple
I always feel sceptical about this ‘conspiracy of freemasons’ stuff, but even it is true does it really matter?! Isn’t it just another description of the ruling temporal authorities, the powers-that-be, the vested interests, which have pretty well always been, are and very likely ever will be, until…?
In my opinion this is a problem, they are not “ruling temporal”. To me it matters, because it is part of my understanding. It has an massive spiritual impact, even an impact on to health and individual Freedom.
Ok Preetam, they may not be the rulers, but I also mentioned powers-that-be (in a wide sense) and vested interests. Spending my life pondering and chasing up issues on that level doesn’t attract me, it would just create more tension in my mind, that I can do without. Perhaps also a danger of generating a degree or more of paranoia. But if you’re into it, who can say you shouldn’t be?!
Btw, are you influenced at all by David Icke? If not, maybe you could check him out….
No not Icke…
Through reading old writings, found many intresting accordance. The Symbols even in modern TV same as in oldest buildings and Arts. The Masonic influence we find in allmost every official and monarchic building. No way if looking for truth avoiding them. The understanding why and how this is possible, what the responsible opinion is, it is not the unwilling Human… it gives lots of Freedom and that Freedom from the outside world is needed and helps me a lot. Mostly it is seen negative, a kind of fear.
satyadeva,yes i agree,but how did we get from vegetarianism to freemasonry and the “evil” elite? Oh yes,Preetam started it….. and not to forget of course that “evil” Hitler was a vegetarian, he had stomach trouble and probably could’nt digest meat!!! I wonder how he ever digested the killing of so many jews, he’s probably still digesting.
the nazis also passed some of the most benign animal welfare reforms of their time.. see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany
they also brushed their teeth daily….
personally I blame their psychotic evil madness on toothpaste.. its obvious…if only we could have stopped them from manufacturing toothpaste between the wars….
Yes, it is known that this guy was vegie and funded by the Bankers of the Masons.
The vegetarianism in the West has been clubbable, because of Anthroposophy and Rudof Steiner, and as for my research he was a Mason too.
Gold or dust, paper or notes..in their eyes, it has not any substantial difference, ..therefore they take gold and notes from followers, sympathisers and fellow brothers…
(Unwritten code of conduct of gurudum and antigurudom)
I really don´t know which group to include where…
I myself dont think it is so important what goes into your mouth, but what comes out. And find it interesting that some mystics never spoke.
In extremis even ardent vegetarians have eaten meat to survive.
I find myself much more concerned with experimentation on animals. All of that should be stopped forthwith. Man has no special place in creation. All creatures under the sun have as much right to be here on this amazing planet as anyone else, and not enslaved and tortured because of man’s selfish agendas – which often prove worthless, and many of the absurd medicines they produce.
A friend of mine nearly had a nervous breakdown in the early days of being online.
She had been in the habit of keeping cookers clean with one of those toxic oven sprays; and she either came across, or someone sent her a picture or video of a dog, with its eyes clamped open, and the eyes being sprayed with oven cleaner, to check the toxicity levels or something like that.
My stomach churned imagining such a thing.
She stopped using those products.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
The level of wanton human cruelty exists in inverse proportion to the ability as humanity to do more to stop it.
Whereas all manner of ideologies have come and gone to empower and enable justice and compassion, the total amount of outrage and misery increases proportionate to humanity’s ability to conduct it. If it takes even 50 years for Osho’s message to turn a generation on, whilst destruction abounds all around, that is half a lifetime. No wonder many advaitists do not and cannot propose any magic wand for the worlds ills and the universe’s lack of corresponding power to prevent misery. No wonder the lack of commensurate transparent evidence of effective justice made freely available to the citizenry causes the acts of liberationist outrage by some on behalf of the few.
I don’t see the Eckart Tolle’s of this world delivering lectures from outside some institute of corporate evil blasphemy, and taking on the world like Osho did .. at face value complete with loud raspberries.
Activism and inactivism are disproportionately dispersed amongst the populace when it comes to acting on justice.
I remember Barry Long being harangued in Bristol by a woman who stood up and said she worked with African Charities where his notion of freedom from suffering was irrelevant at best. His answer was ‘where are they and are they here ? She stormed out.
Because we have no answer for and no remedy and no accountability and no mutuality and and and …in contemporary social democracy (as the best offer humanity has thus far created ,we are told) then it’s very easy to look for instant solutions to be free even of the considering of them.
Life as life is as bad as you can imagine it is, though ‘luckily it doesn’t happen that bad to me .So why keep feeling bad about things I can’t actually change?’ , is the rejoinder.
Here appears the singular force of self realization….’ if only I got it then I would see things differently….and all conflict would be resolved and absolved in me’.
It may be true, it may not…but in absolute terms its hardly any more promising than every revolution that’s ever been.
You can only act in the measure given to you and by the Havel-ian injunction to be responsible to today as if you have just been born fresh to it.
Any more is way beyond my ken of comprehension…its a shame that magic wands aren’t sold on the seekers path. Sometimes for a moment you wish, not for yourself .. but even for another.
Its the powerlessness in the face of adversity that hurts.
Osho proved that disheartenment simply does not get a look in .. for when the going gets tough… the tough keep going. And don’t avoid trouble in stillness… go look for it, in whatever measure appropriate to you/me ; it’s the vision thing…..its all we have ….in unenlightenment.
Interesting post Prem Martyn.
I agree that Osho did seem to “take on” the established order infinitely more than the advaitists. Barry Long was not an advaitist, but he too did not have the universal scope and seeming willingness to take on the enormous injustices of the human condition, and the total examination of the human psyche and how to be free of all that crap.
Echart Tolle, when does he try to get to the bottom of human cruelty, and the sheer misery of most of the human condition?
Had I found myself for example in Sarajevo or Srebenica or a Nazi extermination camp I wonder how mine, or anyone else’s spirituality would have found expression – if at all – and that is the real test.
Sorry P – But what goes in tends to come out. How can one be against animal experimentation and still enjoy one’s veal cutlet? Because the experiments are carried out on dogs and monkeys and rats in the most part – which tend not to be eaten – except of course in places like South Korea, Vietnam etc … and as for silent mystics – Meher Baba ( whom I was interested in back in the early 70s )directed people against eating animals – via his blackboard of course – but not because he was worried about the welfare of the creatures – but because he ‘said’ (silently of course)that the eating of flesh would ‘contaminate’ one … again the poor ‘beasts’ are blamed.
I am against both, and dont eat veal cutlets. However if in a survival situation I think I would eat human beings, like for example an air crash in the Andes.
The quick death of an animal in a slaughterhouse is a terrible business, but the torture of an animal very slowly for so-called medical advances is much more outrageous in my book.
P – I had no wish to suggest that you ate veal cutlets – my apologies for any confusion
http://www.irishexaminer.com/news/280000-animals-used-for-testing-in-2010-184465.html
I dont like the experimentation on animals, ether. The result of all the research often is disputable. Even if the outcome at the surface seem helpful. I myself dont like even more the experimentation on Humans. This Glutamate stuff and many other chemicals is not ok for health, spirit, it makes lots of tension within the body. This way it’s easy to interfere into others’ lives, to me it is a corrupting influence. I see again the same Handwriting, sry
Man should get this “re-spect” where his truth comes from, that moment he starts being respectful with the world.
let us imagine for a year, world has become vegetarian and vegetables are not sprayed with any kind of pesticides?
can someone see the outcome after that year?
…….more bees..
why is Shantam asking questions about the decline of fertile pollination…..?
does he mean we risk becoming extinct like neanderthals ? or is he an apiarist ?
maybe?
http://www.alternet.org/food/154039/have_bees_become_canaries_in_the_coal_mine_why_massive_bee_dieoffs_may_be_a_warning_about_our_own_health
http://www.alternet.org/food/153908/the_scary_danger_of_meat_even_for_those_who_dont_eat_it_
Earlier I thought, if the whole world has become vegetarian, the wars will vanish.
And now??
actually still… with understanding out of self-realization. Maybe it anyway goes together.
But as I see it at the moment. The dirty scheme uses all their magic for keeping humanity down. I suppose, even our commune is overtaken by this scheme, conscious or unconscious.
My statement concerning the Commune, I take back. It was inappropriate of me.
What a relief, you had me really worried for a moment there.
To whom it may concern
umudrovat se is a Czech word meaning
“to philosophize oneself into the madhouse”
Look all I said was that I was feeling a little peckish and that as we were flying over the Andes should I start taking nibbles out of my fellow passengers just in case. I remember distinctly the moment it happened as our hostess was handing out free copies of the old sannyas news from 1976 at the time, and I was just reading an article on staying spiritual and in truth if you are from an ethnic minority in a war zone.
Then someone shouted that it was just plain madness.
And then I woke up…
aaaaaaaaarghhhhhhh it’s all true ….
Preetam gets the liberty to point fingers at all those elements who keep the humanity down, but after contemplating for “15 seconds” decides it is inappropriate to put “our commune” into the list of those unconscious elements rulling the world.
Surely tigers in our commune only eat grass and drink bio milk!
Maybe a vegie paper tiger, possible… But dont want Pune in the Position of conspiracy. So wonderfull moments vegie and non vegie
Hope, Pune still is an Oasis of inspiration for people going into the Beyond and live a Life of celebration, same as it was for me.
Off topic post – I work in a public library – a cross between a supermarket and a crisis centre. Rotary leaves their collection bins at our branches for people to leave their ‘unwanted’ books. The other day the bin was overflowing and as I was collecting scattered books and putting them into boxes what did I come across? Dance Your Way to God. A 1978 Darshan Diary. Inside the front cover the previous owner had inscribed his name – Swami Jivan Prabhakar. It got me thinking. Why had the book ended up in the Rotary bin? Who was this unknown sannyasin? Had he died and someone had been going through his ‘stuff’ and tossing out? What was his story? It has happened before that Osho’s books have found their way to these bins. But never inscribed. I give them a home. I too have donated/sold many of his books over the years, for one reason or another. So many books/words, so little time? Don’t really remember. It happened. Now they seem to be coming back. I don’t take all I see. But am tempted. Any thoughts?
Dear Rajni,
In regards to your post about finding the book, we can always put a note in our Viha Connection magazine, like “Attention Swami Jivan Prabhakar: I have your copy of “Dance Your Way to God.” Where are you?”
Also, we give Osho books to prisoners and could use some Osho books for them.
Love,
Dhanyam
Thanks for the response Dhanyam. Rotary here in Australia actually does send books to prisons – they sell others to raise money for their work in places like East Timor etc. If I stumble across any more Osho ‘donations’ I will pack them up and post them to Viha. As for Swami Prabhakar who knows where he is. By the way I think I met you in Pune in 89. Are you ‘into’ assorted hats?
Dear Rajni,
In 87, 88, 89, and 90 I sent three months yearly in Pune, so we may have met. My “assorted-hat” phase is over, and now I am just into assorted Osho. Check out our Viha Connection magazine at
http://www.oshohereandnow.com/connection/VC_Nov-Dec_2011web.pdf
Love, Dhanyam
During my student days, when i was reading more Osho then law books, almost all the books were from second hand footpath shops. I was treasuring them like love letters from beloved, for many they were just books, purchased out of curiosity and discarded after the use…
The fact remains still..if you ask 10 rendomly chosen people about Osho´s books, 8 or 9 are going to answer, ” Yes..they are Ok. but i could not see something new in them, that which is not said before.”
“The fact remains still..if you ask 10 rendomly chosen people about Osho´s books, 8 or 9 are going to answer, ” Yes..they are Ok. but i could not see something new in them, that which is not said before.”
You went to University????
You studied Law.????
And you still drop these assumptions around as if they were proven fact.
Shantam – I presume you are being ironic here. I am sure those ‘randomly chosen’ people who think that Osho’s books are ‘ok’ but ‘nothing new’ have not really read any – and if they have, they have merely glossed over the words. How many of these ‘random’ people have read his discourses on Hasidism, Kabir, Zen, The Diamond Sutra, Heraclitus, Hakim Sanai, Vedanta, Patanjali’s yoga sutras, Taoism etc? These require work. Some people want a ‘quick fix’. They don’t want to do the work. So they dismiss as ‘nothing new’ – as if they are the ‘great experts’ on everything.
” Our secret filming inside British abattoirs has revealed terrible suffering and many potential breaches of animal welfare laws. Our investigations show that ‘humane slaughter’ is a myth.
And it’s not just ‘mainstream’ slaughterhouses where serious animal welfare failings were documented. One Soil Association abattoir was so bad that the Meat Hygiene Service immediately suspended three workers and began building a case for a prosecution. Our investigations show once again that the only cruelty-free diet is a meat-free one.”
from : http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/vegetarianism//2257//
who are actually a very nice bunch of people judging by the organisers I met in the Exeter animal welfare festival and in London….
We have to stop these experiments on animals. I sympathise with the direct action people, but think they are unimaginative, and a bit vengeful. What are the options Martyn?
If we start with the premise that the results of agitpropism are in inverse proportion to the problem or dilemma faced , then we succeed in proving that no-one owes anybody or anybeing anything….and the world continues
… in fact many animal experiment companies are moving to china where this philosophy is in force .. their (the chinese) humanism has barely touched their survivalism and there is no commensurate face-saving gestures needed by their industries unlike in the west…where unwanted mediatic attention may predispose the issue in favour of legitimate cruelty free concerns.
mostly any form of brutality doesn’t stop there.. but continues with the theme and ‘ i’m just going to help myself until something stops me…..’
either greater external forces are brought to bear preemptively, or the internal contradictions will over time change the dynamic….
hence historically campaigning is a form of moral sabotage as an applied external force or …for example global warming occurs when planetary consensus is impossible ….
if one seeks an effect from one’s actions immediately this may be possible, and by chance may or may not work…. cause and effect are not implicit in human dynamics and don’t respond to scientific scaling….
hence debacles like rajneeshpuram risk ‘failure ‘ , like jumping off 100 foot bridges….
but the joy is in the equanimity when faced with unpredictability and the chance to engage life on your terms…
to answer your question.. these are ethical issues where no seventh cavalry exists..however Vegetarianism has blossomed in my lifetime and great successes have been achieved….i even got a family to tear up their circus tickets in Norfolk Virginia when they watched the elephant beating cruelty video strapped to my chest outside the Ringling brothers circus..
The solution dear All is simple….
Do the right thing….and be that which you seek….
Act Now .No need to watch the video for evidence ….its worse than sad
just act…and write to all the Indonesian embassy emails…particularly the Australian ones
here :
http://embassy.goabroad.com/embassies-of/indonesia#8031
take action with your Australian MP’s here:
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/indonesia-new-evidence-2012/?y
keep the pressure up.. make this action count .. lets go viral around the world..
actions work, campaigns do have effect…
thank you for contributing your time.
and with a ready made, non australian resident , email to the ozzy PM here :
http://banliveexport.com/1/#takeAction