“The Joy Of Shedding Their Chains” – The Heyday Of Pune One

The media has often painted a luridly sensationalist, negative picture of ‘the world of Osho’, terming Sannyas “a cult”, the master “the sex guru”, and highlighting the psychotic excesses of Sheela & co. during the Ranch period. But here’s an instance where an eminent journalist, Bernard Levin, repors from an entirely different,  overwhelmingly positive perspective, having taken the trouble to spend time at the Pune ashram, interact with Osho’s people and join in some of the activities there.

That was nearly 40 years ago, halfway through Pune One….

By Bernard Levin, ‘The Times’ 10 April 1980

If it is true, and I cannot see how it could not be, that a tree must be known by its fruit, the followers — he calls them neo-sannyasin — of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh are in general an exceptionally fine crop, bearing witness to a tree of a choice, rare nature. The first quality a visitor to Rajneesh’s ashram notices — and he never ceases to notice it — is the ease and comfort with which they wear their faith. Though they are unshakably convinced (I met only one with any residual doubts) that Rajneesh has enabled them to find a meaning for their lives and for their place in the universe, there was no trace of fanaticism in them, and in most not even fervour.

A prominent British journalist would have been a considerable catch for them, and they were plainly aware of it, for the efficiency and thoroughness with which they met all my requests, answered all my questions and showed me all I wanted to see, made it quite clear that the administrative side of the enterprise is fully aware of the world outside and of the way it runs; whatever else these people are, they are not spiritual troglodytes. But if they would have been pleased to land me, there was never a glimpse of a net; the hours of talk were absolutely free of any proselytising. They have truly understood what Rajneesh meant by the words I quoted yesterday. ”If you go to Hell willingly, you will be happy there; if you are forced into Paradise you will hate it.”

The joy with which they are clearly filled is, as anyone who listens to Rajneesh must deduce it would be, directed outwards as well as in; I cannot put it better than in saying that they constantly extend, to each other and to strangers, the hands of love, though without the ego-filled demands of love as most of the world knows it. They have shed their chains, and they demonstrated their freedom easily and unobtrusively, though the results at first can be startling ; a young married couple I met spoke within ten minutes of a marital problem not usually discussed before strangers (or indeed at all), yet there was no exhibitionism or inverted vanity involved, only the innocent naturalness of the nakedness in Eden before the Fall.

They come not only from haunts of coot and hern, but from all over. I met an accountant, a journalist, a psychotherapist, a housewife, a farmer, a lecturer in Business Studies, among others. Few of them are pursuing their own professions in the ashram (the lecturer in Business Studies agreed cheerfully that there was not much call for such things chez Rajneesh) and those who live full-time on the premises or — for the place is very over-crowded — in Poona itself, are commonly assigned tasks which are themselves designed as part of the learning process, the point being that when an individual finds himself doing the floor- scrubbing with real joy, he is already a long way towards the goal.

Of course, everything that happens on the ashram is designed for the same purpose. The workshops are extensive and impressive; these are no fumbling amateurs messing about with batik and linocuts, but serious craftsmen turning out furniture, metalware, silver inlaying, screen-printing and the like, of high quality. But the point is that almost all of them started without any skill at these trades. The further point is that they are all obviously happy in their work, and the point beyond that is that they would obviously still be happy if they were there doing something else entirely; this is not a story of people who discover an unsuspected talent in themselves, but one of the searchers who find in themselves something of which all talents, indeed all activities whatsoever, are gleaming reflections.

The encouragement of this discovery is also the purpose of the therapy-groups and the various forms of ”dynamic meditation”. Liberation from the ego must start with liberation from the layers of self-consciousness in which we are wrapped, as in the ”Sufi- Dancing” (I don’t think Omar Khayyam would have noticed much of the Sufis’ teaching in it, mind you). This consisted of some simple (though not simply spontaneous) steps and movements, with constant change of partners and such exercises as pausing to look into the eyes of neighbours. I was dragged onto the floor by one of my new-found friends (”You don’t have to do anything!”) and even this limited experience of the disembarrassing process made me see its necessity and efficacy.

There is jargon, of course. An experience is ”heavy”; someone is ”into” this or that technique; asked what he had been before coming to the ashram, one young man replied, not ”a musician”, but ”I moved in music energy”. Clearly it had never occurred to any of the full-bearded, long-haired men that they were unconsciously trying to resemble Rajneesh, instead, there was much easy talk of the difficulty of shaving in cold water and the poor quality of Indian razor blades. (For that matter, it did not require psychic gifts to see that many of the women are plainly in love with Rajneesh.)

They are, as I say, free of doubt; but they wear their certainty like a nimbus, not a sword. A Canadian girl I met had an ease and naturalness that were like magic; she made me want to hug her, though I hardly need say I didn’t. (Only afterwards did I realize that if I had done so she would have taken the gesture for no more than it was: an innocent salute to her almost incredible vitality).

Even more relaxed was the formidable Laxmi, one of the only two people who ever see Rajneesh alone; she is the administrative head of the enterprise, and she glows with a force that nearly knocked me down. And she was the first to say, in answer to my question as to what Rajneesh was to them, that they regarded him as God. I invited her to elaborate, and she willingly did; but if he is God, he is a very undeified one, and certainly in his discourses there is no hint even of ”Who say ye that I am?”, only a powerful sense that he is a conduit along which the vital force of the universe flows. (One of the ashram-dwellers, when I asked the same question — what do you regard Rajneesh as? — put it impressively in two words: ”A reminder”).

But there is no doubt that Rajneesh is regarded, at the very least, of being possessed of psychic powers. He never now leaves his quarters, except for the morning discourses (the evening gatherings are held on a terrace abutting on to his rooms, and he has even given up his former practice of walking in his private garden) ; when I asked why he never looked in on the various groups to see how the work was going, the reply, immediate and without affectation, was, ”But he does – only not in the body”. He speaks for himself at the daily discourses, of course, and for the rest of the time Laxmi speaks for him.

On my second visit, however, last week, I could almost have wished she had not, for she told me of his view that Mahatma Gandhi was wrong, in his attempt to break the hideous grip of the caste system, to call the ”Untouchables” Haridjans, meaning ”Children of God”, for this had had the effect of boosting their ego — a remark which must rank high on anybody’s list of the dozen most ridiculous things ever said.

There is constant talk of a move to the new ashram, for which planning permission is still being laboriously negotiated. This is to be so large that all the sannyasin who want to live on it will be able to do so, and it will be entirely self-supporting; I was even shown detailed coloured drawings of the projected layout and buildings. On my first visit I sensed, or thought I did, that the whole project was chimerical, that the new ashram was to remain a dream, and that the dreaming was itself part of the technique, but on my second they insisted that the project was realistic and their intentions definite. I have heard the sannyasins’ temporary sojourn at the ashram (many come for a month or so at a time, often using their annual leave for the purpose) described as a holiday; if so, it is a holiday with remarkably therapeutic qualities, for I met no one who did not testify to the gains the experience had brought, and none who lacked the visible sign of such gains.

Is anything lost? I think not, but I am not quite certain. For some, perhaps, there is a softening of the wrong kind, a loss of definition, of individuality in the better sense. I found myself wondering how they would get on in extreme situations, of privation or persecution, or even flung back into the pressures of the life the rest of us lead. Perhaps some would be unable to cope (but then, look at the numbers who are unable to cope right now, without having had any transformative experience). Certainly they all feel secure — not in Rajneesh’s protection, but in their own new found wholeness.

Outside, too, there were reminders of a world elsewhere. In Poona I saw the reception after a Parsee wedding, opulent beyond imagining, set in a fairy-lit garden with Strauss waltzes amplified into the night, and a present-laden receiving line that stretched on for ever. I also saw the old man with a legless child, begging by the roadside, and the tents of sacking beneath the bridge near by. Inside the tents could be glimpsed neatness and order among the pitiful possessions, a people still unbroken by poverty. To Rajneesh’s followers, the wedding-guests and the tent-dwellers are suffering from the same spiritual wan, and so no doubt they are; but I think it will be some time before either group recognizes the fact.

At the evening darshan, Rajneesh initiated new sannyasin, discoursing beautifully and poetically to each on the theme of the new name he or she had acquired; he welcomed back, with a huge and radiant smile and apt words of greetings, those who had been away; he gave a third group an extraordinary ”energy-transfer”, pressing with his middle finger (like a violinist stopping a string) on the centre of their foreheads, over the ”third eye” to which experience reactions clearly varied from nothing at all to something close to convulsions; and he said an equally individual farewell to those who were leaving, ending in each case with the same formula, an inquiry as to their destination followed by the words ”Help my people there”.

Some would say they would do better to stay in Poona and help the tent-dwellers; some, more subtly, would argue that they should help the wedding-guests. Some, and on the whole I rather think I am one of them, would say that both arguments have missed the point of Rajneesh’s teaching, which is concerned to enable the individual to put himself right, since until that is done he can hardly hope to put others right.

I came away, impressed, moved, fascinated, by my experience of this man (or God, or conduit, or reminder) and the people (”be ordinary and you will become extraordinary”) around him. I came away, also, to a haunting fragment of time; beside the road leading to the ashram there was, in addition to the beggars, a pedlar selling simple wooden flutes. As I passed him for the last time he was playing a familiar tune: how he had learnt it, and what he believed it to be, I could not even begin to imagine. It was ”Polly Put The Kettle On”.

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182 Responses to “The Joy Of Shedding Their Chains” – The Heyday Of Pune One

  1. shantam prem says:

    What a golden past with a lukewarm present & without any future.

    • satyadeva says:

      Your comment somehow reminds me of the plight of someone, Shantam. Now who on earth can that poor chap be…?

      • shantam prem says:

        That poor chap who invested heavily on the biggest spiritual snowball of our times!

        • satyadeva says:

          And still, apparently, hasn’t learned the key lesson from his very own experience that ‘investing’ in, counting on anything outside ourselves to create ‘ideal circumstances’, some longed-for ‘permanent good’ – an organisation, an institution, a job, a political party, a football team, a partner, a friend etc. etc. – is, sooner or later, bound to cause disappointment, disillusionment, if only because it’ll eventually change beyond recognition, taking us out of our ‘comfort zone’, wither away or die.

          The huge irony in this is that what this particular person ‘invested in’ was a movement , or rather, even more riskily, a single place, whose overriding purpose was/is to help the individual to be free of all such misguided attachments!

          Unfortunately, some misunderstanding seems to have taken place. Quite possibly due to the highly seductive nature of that specific environment for certain people, and also easily missed by our propensity to lay blame on others for our own blunders.

          • satyadeva says:

            Another thing worth bearing in mind is that resisting reality, ie what’s happening that can’t realistically be changed or, in the case of the ashram, overthrown, fosters the very sense of ‘egoic self’ that enjoys conflict, resisting, blaming, judging, fighting what is, however hopeless the situation, which is the antithesis of ‘giving up’ that self-righteous ‘self’, the ultimate purpose of an institution like the Pune ashram and of the Sannyas movement itself.

            Difficult to swallow, especially when faced with an unpalatable (to the mind-that-must-always-be-right) alternative that suggests that in the end we are the authors of our own suffering. But still worth considering.

  2. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    You ´made´ it, Satyadeva; atousing my Joy, I mean, seeing you have offered the quote from Bernard Levin today, which I remembered having read with joy quite some time ago in Oshonews.

    He was – is – I guess, also today one of the good guys, reminding me of some of the rather rare contributors here (like Bob, for example), people, I mean, who have their heart in telephone connection with their ´head´.

    Thank you very much, Satyadeva – and I´ve been eager to post that, before other ‘waves are coming in’.

    With Love,


  3. frank says:

    It is very old news of course, so I would like to throw in some less well known background on this story:

    At the time Bernard Levin went to Poona, he was already involved with ‘Insight’, a Californian seminar training thing (transcending limits, opening heart etc., a bit like EST). He had been introduced to this by Arianna (later) Huffington of Huffington Post fame whom he was lovers with (and wanted to marry) at the time.

    Thus, he was already ‘softened up’ and had already begun to be considered a little flakey by his more hard-nosed journo friends.The vist to Poona was the last nail in an already under-construction coffin as far as his reputation was concerned.

    Will the ‘inner journey’ ever be a respectable one?
    I doubt it.
    Most likely, in reality, it`s always going to be messy:
    More ‘hippy-trail’ than ‘ski-ing in Davos’, no matter how glossy the brochures become!

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Well, yes, Frank,
      Tell us about the latest ‘breaking news’ of the Yellow Press or similiar, if glossy brochures or the ‘Ski-ing in Davos’ go ahead, what else you have up your sleeve; as what you shared as a ‘background’ of Bernard Levin, I already knew…

      However – how he (Mr Levin) is doing now, I don´t know, but know that he gave a realistic picture re the heart of Sannyas and a very friendly report, a long time ago, touching also points which do NOT disappear in time but transform, as time goes by.

      Sincerely ‘yours’ (just now-here) – is me (even if you are in danger to ‘freak’ about that).


      • frank says:

        To find out what Levin is up to, you would have to check the Akashik records.

        He also supported the Vietnam war and was a `fervent admirer` of Margaret Thatcher.

        But yes, I guess he was a `useful idiot` for the movement at that time.

      • Klaus says:


        Possibly he is “whirling around” a little bit.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Thanks for the wiki input, Klaus,

          I hadn’t read that before.

          Yes, “possibly he is “whirling around” a little bit”.
          Same, I´d presume, we´re possibly whirling around too?
          A little while longer? Or not?


          I´d simply love some fairness to deal with facts re circumstances in a ´history channel´ and if the voices of deconstruction become too noisy such has a repelling flavour (for me).

          • Klaus says:

            There is a more personal account of Bernard Levin’s life in this obituary in ‘The Guardian’:


            It even mentions his series of articles in praise of Bhagwan.

            • satyadeva says:

              I see this obituary writer Quentin Crewe, upper-class, Eton-educated intellectual, adventurer and restaurateur (and wheelchair-bound from age 29) gives short shrift to “Bagwan Rajneesh”, calling him a “spurious guru” and bracketing him with Nixon and Agnew as people whom Levin “should have detested”!

              Dear oh dear!

              • frank says:

                Yes, it doesn`t bode well for the cred of an Eton and Cambridge educated journalist who slags off someone whose name he can`t even spell.

                These are the sort of guys that make you realise that Monty Python was more of a documentary than anything else:
                “When Quentin went to the village on his bicycle, his father would be waiting for his return. “Well, did you notice?” he would ask, having taken impala and gazelle heads down from the wall and balanced them in the bushes which lined the drive. On being told that Quentin had not noticed anything in particular his father would be disappointed once more: “Well, you wouldn’t last long in the bush, would you?”

                • satyadeva says:

                  Talking about misperceptions of Bhagwan/Osho, it appears to continue among the younger generation of would-be business ‘hot-shots’. Someone sent me this garbage the other day, part of a promo re how to seduce women, allegedly quoting a ‘university research study’:

                  “The Professor became interested in discovering how cult leaders effortlessly brainwashed their followers…
                  Specifically their female followers…into a compulsive need for their validation. How they could so quickly get them to do things that seemed to defy logic…

                  For instance…

                  Branch Davidian leader David Koresh was a dorky looking guy with no money who presided over a small harem of devotees who serviced his sexual needs on a daily basis…Sometimes up to a dozen at a time… 2 or 3 times per day!

                  An Indian mystic known as Osho conducted public orgies where he would have sex with dozens of women at the same time…

                  …many of these young, hot women eagerly waited for weeks for their turn to please the guru who was then well into his mid 50s.

                  The Professor suspected that these cult leaders were leveraging simple, social commitments…

                  …things that our human brains are literally hardwired to respond to…

                  To Make Completely Normal, Sane Women SEXUALLY OBSESSED.”

                  I emailed them, pouring scorn on their Osho anecdote, asking them whether they’d heard it second, third or fiftieth-hand, advising them to look into the matter and eventually to publish a correction and apologise to their readers. After an exchange of several emails they agreed, and I pressed them to let me know the results of their enquiries. We’ll see what they come up with….

                  What’s the odds on Shantam begging me for a link to their site?!

                • frank says:

                  Don`t worry, they will probably correct it.
                  To “the Indian mystic known as Rajneesh was known to conduct public orgies….”!

              • Klaus says:

                Bernard Levin had the courage to go against such kind of intellectual – and ignorant – establishment by praising Bhagwan.

                He had a direct personal experience which he appreciated.
                That was special at the time.
                But then again “Nixon”…puuh.

                • frank says:

                  Why do all these `spiritually inclined` characters go right-wing eventually? Arianna Huffington went the same way.

                  It`s not an entirely original idea to say that people are looking for something to offset the anxiety, ambivalence, uncertainty of existence.

                  Ultimately they will fall for a person, scheme, religion, ideology that seems to give that certainty. Look at the recent rise of right-wing ideology. It`s quasi-religious in that it eliminates ambivalence, contradiction, uncertainty and anxiety by clearly outlining the truth and what is against the truth. That might be Immigrants, foreigners, Muslims, Satan, Jews, lefties etc.

                  We had it back in the red days too:
                  The unconscious masses, ex-sannyasins, negativity, Oregonians, the mind even….
                  That was the “taste of fascism”, the seeds of which were already in place before the Ranch.

                  It`s nice to side with the right by knowing what the wrong is. (How else to do it?).
                  (Funny how the double-meaning of the word ‘right’ itself in so many languages plays into this).

                  The alternative to this is to just stick with the whole ambiguous or multi-biguous shebang of contradictions that never actually resolve in the world and oneself.

                  Who wants that?
                  Not many.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Good one, Frank.

                  Especially: “We had it back in the red days too:
                  The unconscious masses, ex-sannyasins, negativity, Oregonians, the mind even….
                  That was the “taste of fascism”, the seeds of which were already in place before the Ranch.”

                  Well perceived, sir!

          • Klaus says:

            For Madhu (10 February, 2020 at 10:26 pm)

            After reflecting some on this I understand that you are clearly getting something off from the past.

            I can, of course, only express my present level of ignorance.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              Yes, Klaus, true: We – both of us – can only express our (unique I´d say) present level of ignorance; especially on a Chat-website.

              And sometimes, more rare than often, but in the last days or so a little bit, I feel, there’s more lightness in it than other times….

              For instance, I also appreciated (like Bob did) Shantam´s verses the other day, which seemed to be more sane and inspiring than all these years gone by.

              I would also say, we owe Frank some inspiring thread ‘ping-pong’. And that´s nice and good for the heart.

              A little bit of ´whirling´, isn´t it?


              • Klaus says:

                Yes, I feel the same – it is going more lightly. Good signs altogether.

                This morning I was sitting outside – two big (well…) birds (buzzards) slowly cruising in big circles in the blue sky with brushed white clouds strewn in….

                • Klaus says:

                  We could make it into a ‘Comedia dell’Arte’: My illusions speaking to your delusions – and vice versa.

                  That is exactly why Bhagwan was saying that “there is no relationship between disciples. The only relationship is between the master and the individual disciple.”

                  So, best thing we can do, imo, is not to feel hurt by the views and statements of others, but to understand something of it.

              • Lokesh says:

                So, Osho says, “There is no relationship between disciples. The only relationship is between the master and the individual disciple.”

                Tim Leary said, “Think for yourself and question all authorities.”
                In this case, Leary was correct, because if you believe Osho’s statement you will believe anything, because it is untrue. Osho’s communes were always full of relationships between his disciples. Lifelong friendships were formed. Yet we are supposed to believe that the only relationship is between the master and the individual disciple.

                Simply does not make any sense, no matter how deep you want to take the question, as in there can be no relationships because ego is false etc. It might sound good to the mysterions, but to us plain old simple humanoids I think our human relationships are what makes us…ehm…human.

                Why would anyone ditch something of so much value, mystery and joy? To move beyond the ego? Okay then, who is it doing the moving?

                Better heed Osho’s more wise and human sayings like, “Friendship is the purest love. It is the highest form of Love where nothing is asked for, no condition, where one simply enjoys giving.”

                How will one experience such a wonderful thing without relating to people?

                • Klaus says:

                  Lokesh is back. Good.

                  Quote is quote.

                  What I believe in?
                  Inspiration. By whoever.

                • Kavita says:

                  Come on, Lokie, Osho’s two quotes are probably true in their respective contexts.

                  Guess Leary’s “Think for yourself and question all authorities” is true for most of us who came to Osho/Bhagwan.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Yes, of course, Kavita. Context in relation to what Osho said is very important, because he said so much. It is also true that he was an authoritarian figure. I am not so sure how many sannyasins realize that.

                  Personally, I enjoyed a lot of what he said and was much more interested in his amazing vibes.

                • frank says:

                  Lokesh, you say, “It is also true that he was an authoritarian figure. I am not so sure how many sannyasins realize that.”

                  I think that`s a significant point.
                  The thing is that us humans like an authoritarian figure in their lives because it authorises and gives us authorisation
                  to do stuff we couldn`t do otherwise.
                  That`s the blessing and the curse.

                  We talked about astrology and divination a while back and maybe we missed out the most important factor in how it `works`: The (perceived) authority of the reader.
                  That`s the major point of the satsang gurus, too. They are in the chair, they are holding the microphone.
                  The body-language probably brings up millions of years of ape hardwiring which includes having to bow down to the boss ape and getting your ass banged about a bit when you get too uppity (devices).
                  We shouldn`t feel so bad about it, after all,we all need some bananas!

                  The most important thing that needs to be done is for the chief baboon to keep proving that he`s the main man and he`s nailed it.

                  Sadly, observation shows that people will value the bollocks talked by an established main man over the sense talked by a regular guy.

                • Kavita says:

                  ”It is also true that he was an authoritarian figure. I am not so sure how many sannyasins realize that.”

                  Yes, this is true. For that reason, I do wonder about this and so don’t regret not meeting him!

                • satyadeva says:

                  I find this a very strange comment, Kavita. What ‘unpalatable’ things do you imagine he might have said to you then?

                • Lokesh says:

                  Frank, kow-towing to authoritarian figures is our lot from the get-go. An ancient programme.

                • Kavita says:

                  SD, not imagining anything. Of course I am inspired by him, I have had the full liberty to think for myself, with no direct physical/verbal guidance, if I may say so.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Yet you say you’re glad you never met him. Which suggests a certain fear. To which the obvious question is, how was your relationship with your father?!

                • Kavita says:

                  SD, a very friendly relation, he gave me real attention, he always asked me minute details about everything I perceived, also about all that I felt, did and observed, but never told what to do but did teach me to be clean & tidy in all my dealings.

                  He always prompted me to be fearless and do my own thing. I am grateful to Existence for this.

                  In fact, when he died I lost my best-ever friend.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Thanks, Kavita. Sounds as if you were ‘karmically blessed’ there, yes.

                • Kavita says:

                  Yes, SD, for sure & thank you, too.

  4. Lokesh says:

    When I first saw what the article was based on my first thought was, “Oh no, can SN not do anything better that dredge up that old shite?”

    I can recall reading the article when it was first published. Like everyone else in Poona One at the time I felt chuffed that we were finally getting the recognition that we so rightfully deserved, instead of all the crap that was being directed our way at the time.

    We were the cutting edge, part of the spiritual revolution, having the greatest of adventures and lots of fun to boot. These orange boots are made for dancing. We were going to change the world by hugging and going hoo-hoo-hoo on the kundalini express, thundering down the tracks, headed directly for Nirvana Central. The flame of enlightenment was burning bright. No one can say that enthusiasm was not rampant during those halcyon times.

    As history shows, the flame of enlightenment did not take the movement to the global heights many of us would have liked to imagine…kind of sputtered out if you ask me, but it sure was groovy when it was burning.

    Osho has been dead for decades now and it has not been the same since the king left the building. Minus its front man the whole Sannyas movement today is a bit like the Rolling Stones minus Mick and Keef. The band can play on, but it just does not feel or sound right. The music does not move you like it used to. At least not as far as I am concerned anyway. I don’t even listen to it. Waves are coming in… Really. Polly put the kettle on. Gimme a break!

    Living on Ibiza I often hear the oldies going on about how it was during the good old days, and you know what? It sounds very old. Same goes for the good old days of Sannyas, when Osho was alive and kicking. It is all Ganges water under the bridge at the end of Bund Garden Road. Life is happening now and although it was great fun while it lasted, all the subject matter in this article is history and bears no relevance to my life today, other than to say had it not been for those times I would not be where I am now.

    Neither a blessing or a curse. It simply is. Let the past go. I often think that life’s biggest lesson is about learning how to let go of everything, especially the past.

  5. anand yogi says:

    Perfectly correct, SN!

    Certainly, Bernard Levin was sent to Pune by the Nine Unknown Men of Mighty Bhorat in a cunning plan to subvert the yellow press and bring enlightenment to long-faced Englishmen!

    The scheme was that all the British reading their freshly-ironed copies of ‘The Times’in their gentlemen`s clubs would have immediately been overcome by the enlightened energy and proclaimed: “Good Lord, Bertie, get my manservant to book me a ticket to Poona, I need to get “into” some “heavy” jargon! I`m going to jolly well turn on, tune in and drop my plus fours and my mind and hug some of those vivacious, juicy hippie chicks, just as soon as I`ve had another cup of tea! Polly! Put the kettle on!”

    Unfortunately, as has so often been the case, eg with Hitler, Krishnamurti and Shantam, the Nine Men were disappointed, only later finding out that ‘Times’ readers are not really interested in losing their minds as they need them to do the crossword!

    However, Swami Bhorat advises that experiencing nostalgia in the here and now whilst whiling away the hours in the Orange Sunshine Retirement Home for the Spiritually Challenged can be efficacious and even suggests to follow Shantam`s example of having “A golden past with a lukewarm present without any future” tattooed on their backsides as a reminder!

    Hari Om!

  6. satchit says:

    The author describes the time of the youth of Sannyas.
    The Ranch was the grown-up phase and now we have old age.

    The contemporary witnesses of that time will disappear soon like the contemporary witnesses of Auschwitz disappear slowly.
    But still articles, vids, books will remain.

    Maybe I should read again: Satyananda: ‘Totally Relaxed In The Here And Now”? No, sorry I am busy with other things.

    The kids are not interested in the Guru-game. There is no app available.
    It’s old generation stuff.
    They are interested in saving the planet.

    I wish them good luck!

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Hi Satchit,
      Your kind of generalisations about generations being involved in meditation and also of the Osho Sangha therein is in my eyes a very roughly done falsification.

      Totally off the wall is the comparison of the Sangha with the Ausschwitz calamity!

      But as you are a German (a Bavarian guy too?) I´d like to remind you that the German political party of the FDP had to appear in Court because they used a ´Plakat Aktion´, where Osho was called “Hitler” and sannyasins his followers…

      By decision of the Court they had to remove their ´Plakats´ – it´s all some time ago. It was Ramateertha (Uta, Köln) who took care of that stuff – long time ago.

      The man (FDP Münster) who had started the whole shite (as Lokesh likes to put it) is dead meanwhile (his name was Müntefering).

      I really don´t like your roundabout few-liners sometimes in that virtual SN/UK chat, Satchit!


      I know – other than you – many elders (and I´m one of them) – being involved in the climate change movement and similar.
      What about you?

    • shantam prem says:

      If kids are not interested in guru game they are also not interested in the books and videos of someone who is no more.

      Other than certain section of Indian society, most of the developed world knows, dead men don´t walk….

  7. shantam prem says:

    Madhu writes too much about Sangha.
    It is not grass which grows by itself
    Sitting Silently, Doing Nothing
    Parasites grow from within
    Sangha becomes a Resort
    When master who talked too much
    Did not talk about His last will.

    • satchit says:

      Shantam, you are being stupid.

      His last will is “Be free!”

      Whatever happens, let it happen.
      If the whole Sannyas-stuff disappears like a balloon into the sky, perfectly good!

      • shantam prem says:

        You are an expert in misquoting with your bookish knowledge.

        People who cannot shed the cultist names talk about being Free!

        It will be a great day when whole Sannyas stuff balloons into the sky.
        I prefer to kill snake rather than make him the pet after removing poison gland.

        • satchit says:

          Who says this is my cultish name, Swami Shantam?

          Time to improve your intelligence!

          • frank says:

            Maybe, after all these years of people booting Shantam up the backside, we should give the man a chance to shine at what he`s good at?

            Here`s a game:
            As an astrologer who has been interacting with the people on SN so long, it should not be too difficult to guess their star signs with better-than-chance outcomes.
            Shantam, choose your discipline, Indian or Western, and put up your psychically-inspired guesses. Fancy a go?

            To make it interesting, as an amateur turned sceptic, I will guess too. See if you can beat me, ok?

            Unfortunately, some on here have given their sun-sign. We know SD is a Scorpio, Lokesh is a Saggitarius, Shantam is a Pisces (is that Eastern or Western? I would say Western).

            Here goes. I go Western, in no particular order. (Don`t write the correct answers till Shantam has had a go):

            Madhu Cancer
            Klaus Libra
            Shanti Aquarius
            Kavita Gemini
            Bob Gemini
            Levina Aries
            Satchit Taurus
            Anubodh Aquarius
            Veet Francesco Sagittarius
            Arpana Scorpio
            Prem Ritvik Virgo
            Anand Yogi Pisces

              • Klaus says:

                Shantam: Pisces.

              • bob says:

                I know almost zilch about astrology, western, eastern, northern or southern…no real interest in it other than it’s part of my environment, as some people take it seriously in this day and age…I just observe it as a phenomenon, a manifestation of people trying to understand their universe and personal lives by some methodology–very similar to what religions do. Anyway, with that disclaimer inputted…

                The reason I think Frank is a Pisces is born out of deductive mathematical logic, not astrological logic.

                As I learned in junior high algebra class….
                if A=B, and B=C, then A=
                So, since I know (99% positive) that Frank writes the copy for Anand Yogi, and it is Frank that states here that Yogi is a Pisces (above post), then Frank is a Pisces(A=C).

                Why do I think Frank concocts AY’s posts? Well, who else could write these hilarious pieces, chock full of satire, parody, cultural allusions, off-the-wall and out-of-the-box images, with his sharply barbed zen arrows aimed at the pompously inflated belief ideas of our psycho-spiritual subculture? Pure Frankian script, similar in a way to his Rap posts under his own name.

                But having said that, since Anand Yogi is simply a glove puppet, a created character on SN, Frank could give him any sun sign under the sun–Gemini, Aquarius, or even make one up–like, the esoteric 13th secret sun sign of the mighty Bhorat!

                So, Frank is only a Pisces if the sun sign he attributes to Yogi is really his own. You would have to believe Frank on this.

                But the real reason I am so sure that Frank posts as Anand Yogi is not so much the humor…. it’s the apostrophe! Understand? Go check it out for yourselves.

                Sure as shootin’ Sherlock!

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  You made it, Sherlock, guess you have some or/and another/other Avatar too up your sleeve, don´t you, Bob?
                  Well acquainted to keep it a secret….


                • anand yogi says:

                  Certainly, it is a tragedy of Mahabharatic proportions when Swami Anand Yogi, the glorious purveyor of true sattvic wisdom and chief disciple to Swami Bhorat himself, is even mentioned in the same breath as the vile, cynical dog Frank! It is like comparing Lord Krishna himself with a debased low-caste coprolalic alcoholic baboon with Tourettes who is running amok, defecating and urinating on all the holy shrines of sacred Bhorat!

                  There can be little doubt that this is the darkest moment of Kali Yuga and the worst day in the history of consciousness since Avatar Adolf slammed the phone down on the Nine Men, and his chip pan caught fire in his bunker!

                  Certainly, this revolting baboon has abused the freedom that Osho gave him! Instead of attempting to follow master`s guidelines, he has wasted his life titillating his sense organs, cracking disgusting “jokes”, insulting the glory of our browned and hallowed turf, abusing ancient Vedic science of starsigns, and you, Shantambhai, know very well, no subject matter is too shameful for his “humorous” barbs, not even Uranus!

                  Instead of meditating he has simply sat around doing nothing! And now, his disgusting doggerel and dirty ditties are being praised by ignorant baboons the world over, and the very real danger arises that people will believe that it is all the handiwork of Beloved Yogi!

                  Swami Bhorat is so outraged that he has declared that he will leave his body on Friday 13th unless this unconscious American hillbilly Bob comes to Bungabunga Ashram, throws himself in deep repentance at His feet, bangs his head on the marble and unconditionally retracts these vile accusations!

                  Hari Om!

            • Kavita says:

              Shantam – Pisces!

              ”Maybe, after all these years of people booting Shantam up the backside, we should give the man a chance to shine at what he`s good at?”
              Thumbs up to that, even though I am not a fan of astrology.

              Was off internet for few days, good to jump onto the wagon now!

    • Klaus says:

      A quite personal article about a visit to the Resort, about the sense of self, about deconditioning and effort – including Osho’s final words:

      “I leave you my dream.”


      But, in my memory, there was something more said:

      “Now, wake up!”

      • bob says:

        This article reads like it came straight from the marketing department of the Osho Resort. Young, new-age, somewhat skeptical visitors who end up giving the ‘thumbs up, Like click’ to the Osho Experience, focusing on the sex theme available there.

        Too clever, too slick.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          The author of the article is dead now for quite some time.
          The quoted article itself came from 1980 – and re the life story of this author quite enough surveillance has been coming up here in UK/SN. Also from your side.

          As far as I´m concerned, I do not know if anybody from the Resort or others do make use of Bernard Levin´s personal experience, obviously quite good personal experience of that time and I would still say: it’s a friendly article about some time/phase of the Sannyas Sangha in Pune, long, long ago. And I could second much of it.

          And such was rare publicity at that time up to nowadays, btw, where most of the innocence of most of the people formally taking off to India and Pune and to that Master has simply been defamed, one way or another.

          Seeing ongoing transformations decades later without demolishing the roots where such is coming from is not a bad thing in this case, I´d say.


          Personally, I´m glad that most of the lectures and talks (Q&As) Osho shared are available to this very day and are still available in their original version.

          Most of the people bragging now to ‘know it all’, who defame it as rubbish, have never read or listened to them.

          I don´t know about you, Bob (your personal experience, I mean).

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Another P.S. to Bob:

            And when it is said (by another author) that one only has a good Seeing if the heart is involved in processing the seeing (you know whom I mean..), there´s valuable truth in that, whatever relative´aspects – but nonetheless valuable!

          • bob says:

            Madhu, the article that I’m referring to is the one that Klaus linked to above here, titled ‘I Charged My Sexual Energies at the Osho Resort’ by someone named Noa Jones, posted in 2015 on the Net – not the Bernard Levin one that started this thread.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              Thanks, Bob,
              I didn´t follow that link you referred to and got that wrong. Sorry.
              I´m quite choosy to follow added links meanwhile.

              You´ve been right yesterday, stating:
              ” what a world, we live in…a little weird, isn´t it?”
              Some friendly understatement about our still often missing creativity to make that fabulous place given ´a better place´, I guess.


  8. shantam prem says:

    If Bernard Levin was this much impressed by Bhagwan, why he did not write another article, why he did not visit Pune again or Rajneeshpuram?

    • frank says:

      Probably because by then he had no chance of getting Arianna Huffington, and it was her that he was trying to impress all along by appearing to be “into” even groovier, “heavier” and more edgy spiritual stuff than she was.

      He was 20 years older than her, so he was trying to sound hip to the cutting edge of consciousness. But when she finally legged it, he thought:”Fuck it! Maggie Thatch is my guru now.”

      • bob says:

        I dunno, Frank, seems like you’re stringing together a lot of fairly unsubstantiated assumptions there. From her own quoted perspective, she wanted to get married and have kids, and Bernie didn’t…eventually she did get married and had a couple of kids, with a right-wing Republican congressman named Huffington. She kept his surname instead of her Greek maiden one…eventually divorcing him, with him coming out later as a bisexual (whatever the f. that means).

        Recently, she cut from the Huffington Post thing, and started a health/wellness/mindfulness type career business venture…leaning more towards the liberal persona that comes with that image – who knows? I don’t know her personally, just reading the Wikipedia stuff.

        Who can follow all this shite without laughing a bit? What a world we live in…a little weird, isn’t it?

  9. Kavita says:

    Here goes. I go Western, in no particular order.

    (Don`t write the correct answers till Shantam has had a go). Frankie, Shantam is going to ignore this, he is too proud to answer to you, that’s my prediction!

    • shantam prem says:

      It is not true, Kavita. I answer everyone who I know a bit. If frank tells a bit about himself, surely I will entertain his idea of ‘Astrology of Seekers, shadow side of seers’.

      • swamishanti says:

        How about we give our elements and Shantam or anyone else has to guess the combination of signs.

        I am fire sun + fire ascendant + earth moon.

        • shantam prem says:

          If one has worked with astrology, it is 50-50 game to guess even sun sign.

          If editor gives me the assurance to publish an article on ‘Astrology of Seekers, Shadow Side of Seers’, I can create one for discussion.

          Last month I was reading shadow side of Sagittarius, no need to mention whose facial sketch was passing through my mind.

          Sure, go ahead, Shantam.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Here we go, to make chuckling easy:
          Fire sun, fire moon, ascendant in air, Chiron , Lilith in fiery water…
          Aaah. you know, just yesterday, when I was out with somebody unknowable to have a chat and by sychronicity I saw coming home later what Frank had been inspired to; I talked to that Lady in a Bistro about Prasad and his lovely Mandala-Astro Meditation, he taught us (a little weekly group) 1986. And how we did enjoy that.

          Few years later, in the 90s, I dropped reading so much astrology stuff being occupied with Liz Greenr (and others) whose works I owe much gratefulness in times of (big) crises.

          One can better say, Astrology dropped me more than other way round…

          For the little chat-chat trigger, getting in the here-now od SN/UK however, I ´m grateful.
          Reminded me also of Kabir in Pune I, and his reading of both my charts, the Sannyas (kind of second birth-chart), as well as my native birth chart.

          Will never forget that he said to me (as my native birth chart and my sannyas are pretty much congruent (sun and ascendant in the same (fire-air) signs…etc.). Remember him saying: ´How fortunate you are to get that kind of support (Sannyas) ….otherwise you could (would) have been dead by now.´

          Later, on the Ranch, I saw him (Kabir) and booked a session. And nowadays – knowing him having been made up his own little ´School´of Essence Training I´m simply in awe how some valuable Seeds obviously found a good Earth to flower.

          And a special note re Frank:
          You inspired me in particular to get a special Darshan Diary (1977) out of the closet here, and thank you for that. Its title is: ‘ONLY LOSERS CAN WIN IN THIS GAME’.

          As the weather today here invites especially for an in-room session, I´ve been reading in that Diary of Darshans and – like ever again – I am in awe about the very contemporariness of the Master, talking to His diciples. (It’s a recommended read…( also for Lokesh, I´d say – him, – who gives a “shite” about this-and-that).

          Grateful for the possibility of reading and writing – and this time for the virtual contact on SN/UK!


          • Klaus says:

            Madhu, you got me into the idea of the sannyas birth-chart…

            Sannyaswisem I am Scorpio – ascendant Capricorn…which is totally different from my native birth-chart.


          • swamishanti says:

            Shall we compare our elements to see if our signs are in the same position, Madhu?

            My sun is Sagittarius, can you tell me your fire sun please? Also, my ascendant is fire, Leo. Please do share your air ascendant.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              All of us, Swamishanti, are truly incomparable; as I said: Astrology dropped me – not vice versa.

              Getting our possible ´adversities´ or seemingly opposites like joy and some ‘recognition(s)’ in a peace-line of dissolving, we have (that’s my experience over time) to use – especially in virtual chat surroundings – other ways to go.

              And above that, I´d prefer to wait in patience for Shantam´s contributions. That´s at least my here-now actual response to you, Swamishanti.

              (Even about the next moment though, I don´t really know…).


              • swamishanti says:

                I have had a real compatibility chart with a girlfriend drawn out and analysed with a sophisticated horoscope computer programme, which have readings of all the different combinations and aspects, planets, houses, attributes etc.

                It was actually pretty accurate, and in our individual charts that were produced by this programme, also with explanations, all of the complexities were actually eerily accurate. Better than any reading that has ever been given by any human astrologer.

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  You used the past sense re your girlfriend, Swamishanti (at 1:04 pm).

                  Is it allowed to ask about your everyday human togetherness in the past besides the ´working´ of an algorhithm?

                  (Do you remember this beating the poor ´human participant’ in the famous game ´GO´?)

                  Just curious….


                  Today´s Valentine´s Day brought the Political Parties on the streets (somewhere here) with lots of roses… and a second flash a little bit later with plastic hearts to give-away which should remove as plastic tamagochis…stress…
                  Didn´t take any of these offers…was looked upon as a very ungrateful woman….

  10. Kavita says:

    Waiting to read Shantam’s ‘Prima Scriptura’ on Astrology, maybe his most passionate subject only after Love & Politics!

    • shantam prem says:

      To write spontaneously, on the fit of the moment, is very easy but to concentrate energy for an article is too much for my Piscean rolling stone mind.

      I am trying to outline the structure, because article must be interactive to leave enough space for comments and discussion. I will submit 12 random paragraphs and a few examples from my life, our common interest Osho and people around him.

      Nowadays, it does not feel like using capital for Osho. More and more it feels like spiritual masters are also humans the way tech geniuses are.

      We can use words of reverence for monarchs and masters; yet fact remains, in the end cards are reshuffled, death creates compost for new lives.

      • Kavita says:

        Well, frankly, I don’t feel like using capital for anyone these days! For me, easy is the only way!

        Anyway, Shantam, right now, I wish you all the luck & energy for this article.

  11. samarpan says:

    Thanks for sharing this of Pune One. My experience of Pune Two was equally chainless. 38 years of neo-Sannyas…shedding chains with each breath. Ahhh, This!

    • swamishanti says:

      No doubt Poona One and Two communes were a great magnet to young seekers, and a place for shedding chains, getting it all out, and finding love, silence, songs and celebration.

      Poona Three was still buzzing in the 90s – I do expect that the current Resort, although still visited by many old-timers in the winter season, is no longer a magnet for younger, new age types as it once was. Just because the current management there have hiked the prices up to ridiculous levels which just look silly to regular western travellers.

      They seem to be targeting the wealthiest stratum of society and tmany ern he place has become a paradise meditation club for yuppies. That will be a turn-off for many young western backpackers and young budget and even mid-range travellers.

      These young people, if interested in Osho, will most likely travel on to other Osho communes and centres such as Osho Nisarga, Oshodham or the communes in Nepal, or the smaller Osho communes and ashrams that have grown up around some of the gurus in the Osho lineages.

      • shantam prem says:

        When was the last time you have visited India and visited some place dedicated to Osho? Be truthful in telling the year.

        Your above post shows you create impressions through websites, facebook and youtube.

        • swamishanti says:

          I have been visiting India for many years, on and off.
          I have not had any interest in visiting Poona Resort since Osho left the body.

          Not for any political reason – I know many people who have been regularly visiting Poona – just because I have more interest in visiting other places and exploring new terrains.

          Last trip was in 2015.

          • swamishanti says:

            Last time I visited Poona it was 1989. It was called ‘ashram’ then, or Osho Commune International.

            One thing I have learnt, though, is there is no need to visit any place of pilgrimage to find Osho. His presence is available wherever one happens to be.

    • frank says:

      Apologies, Sam. I forgot to include your name in the astrology experiment list.

      Now, let me just set up the psychic connection with the Nine Men…ah, yes…let`s see…
      Carrying enough chains around in order to still be shedding them 38 years later?
      Must be a Capricorn!

      • swami anand anubodh says:


        How do you feel your experiment is progressing?
        Are you pleased with the results so far?

        To me, following its progress feels a bit like following the progress of this coronavirus.

        You were wrong about me, so that’s another piece fitted to the puzzle. You also forgot Bong, although he may have been born ‘elsewhere’ and not have an earth star-sign.

        Anyway, I am sure the stragglers on your list will be along soon.

        So, Chin up!

      • bob says:

        Spoiler alert: I am not a Gemini, as Frank has pegged me.

        If there are 12 possibilities, then even a chimpanzee or a child would have a 1 in 12 chance of being correct. 50-50, or 1 in 2 is a big jump up in odds, so if Shantam can match that, he’s on to something big. Even the “house” in Vegas only relies on a 1-5% edge in the gambling business, and they rake in the moolah–every day. At the end of the day, the house always wins. Always.

        But, our cosmos is not a gambling casino, a game, or even a business. When you understand that you are essentially the house that you live in, you own your universe, then there is no winning or losing, no odds at all.

        • frank says:

          Thanks for the feedback.
          Well, I`m running at a score of zero out of 5 so far. I only need 1 out of the next 7 to “break even” probability-wise.

          I`m beginning to have doubts about being the next Nostradamus, now.

  12. shantam prem says:

    Someone has to start where Osho left, naturally such won´t be copycat.
    In my observation, such work will be true homage to Osho.

    Shedding the chains is a continuous process, freedom is not a static state. Mystery of life is such even free get caught in the web of new chains.

    • bob says:

      Well said, Shantam.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Very well said, Shantam (and even if it didn´t/doesn´t come from you own personal keyboard…14 February 2020 at 12:57 pm).

        And my today´s evenning response to that comes from out of the stomachs of a cow, who – as we all know – has several ones to digest the natural food.
        What an immense practical inbuilt miracle of creation!

        We all can learn from that, can´t we?


        I do owe some inspiration here to Frank, who has shared:
        Mentioning his fabulous (little) book he read of an Italian biologist…
        Nice read of the summary, Frank…thanks to you too….

  13. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    @ Swamishanti ( at 4:09 pm)

    Aaah, what a warm-at-heart life story of yours you shared, Swamishanti, a beautiful read.
    And thank you for responding. (Didn´t expect that – and what a surprise…).


  14. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    @ Klaus – 15 February 2020 at 9:02 pm

    Would you please come down a bit, Klaus? From an imanginary view of a ´Comedia del´Arte´ interpreting our chat-case here…

    I´d like to share with you that I live next to a woman here, who lives out in missionary action, one can say, her ´very Personal Jesus´ together with her Evangelical Group, calling itself “Vineyard ” e.V. (very British name they chose).

    This woman had been a teacher in her professional life and now – after retirement from that – feels legitimised as a fundamentalist fanatic on mission to intrude in other people´s life (like mine) in a way not unlike, unfortunately, many East German citizens did with the life of their fellow-travellers (neighbours) before (and even after!) what was called the Turning (´die Wende´).

    Will take a few generations more to get free of such manners and organized means, I guess, and is probably only possible if we are so fortunate not to have another war…

    No ‘commedia’ is in it, you bet!

    The Master you´re talking of, inspired to relate, I´d say, and relate the most honest way possible, and now in so-called Digital Age, relating seems to go down the drain, it seems.
    To see a ´Commedia´ in it might be the fun of some spy mongers’ workshop for psychopaths?

    You see, Klaus, I don´t share your understanding of the Master´s invitation(s) here.

    Yesterday evening I saw again the piece (story-telling) of a very beautiful British film-maker-human, Ken Loach. The piece on stage is called ‘I, Daniel Blake’ (you can google the content, but it´s a very recommendable view!).


  15. Prem Ritvik says:

    It’s a good article.
    We need this media coverage to know what was going on.

  16. Klaus says:

    @Madhu 16 February, 2020 at 5:53 am

    Fair sharing. Thanks!

    I certainly do not want to intrude in your personal life. Sorry, if you felt like that.

    Mostly I had the impression that my comments were not directed at any one particular person.

  17. shantam prem says:

    I was not aware about someone called Caroline Flack. It is only her suicide news as the main news that I realised she must be a celebrity in UK.

    Every time I read such news where young and bubbly people take their life at small excuses, I miss the contribution of Osho, his commune.

    Is it not a wonder, most of sannyasins may be failures in social terms but have lived quite fine in all the trial and tribulations? “Sannyas or Suicide” has surely worked, if not all the time but most of the time.

    Post edited. Shantam, this isn’t the place to restate your anti-regime agenda.

  18. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, I have a few sannyasin friends who committed suicide. You go on to say the following: “Is it not a wonder, most of sannyasins may be failures in social terms etc.”
    You are either hanging out with the wrong crowd or projecting your own sense of social failure.

    I know many sannyasins from different walks of life. Some are perhaps social failures and comfort themselves by saying nothing fails like success, and others are tremendously successful people on the material plane. Having considered this point I come to the conclusion that sannyasins are not any different from other people on this level.

    “Sannyas or Suicide” was probably one of the worst slogans Osho produced. It certainly is not true. Of course the idiots who need an authoritarian figure to tell them what to bleat will continue to go for such MINDLESS utterly negative crap. That is the problem with cult mentality, thinking the cult’s way is the only way, instead of seeing the ways are numerous and suited to a diverse number of individuals.

    Shantam, perhaps it is time to stop for a minute and consider what you are saying, instead of blurting out any old bit of bullshit that is passing through your mind. “Sannyas or Suicide” – do you honestly believe that?

    • shantam prem says:

      When I wrote the post last evening, my impression was Lokesh will surely take this. Today, when I have opened this site, my wise friend has written solidily.

      Anyway, edited part of my post has similar sentiments.

      The underlying point is Osho had given a good alternative to the western people to release their pent-up frustrations by sitting in the soothing atmosphere of India. One can ask, those thousands of people who got benefited have given something back? The thankless creatures have not even remorse how that rare opportunity got corrupted.

      “edited part of my post has similar sentiments” – This is not true, Shantam.

      • shantam prem says:

        Yes, you are right, Mr. Editor. Somehow similar sentiments.

        Sociologically speaking, sannyasins from Osho´s lifetime in general are living quite a pathetic life comparing with other groups and cults created by other gurus. Only very few could create successful careers or a family life.

        “Yes, you are right, Mr. Editor. Somehow similar sentiments.”
        Shantam, I see no connection between your edited-out comments and Lokesh’s recent post.

      • frank says:

        On the subject of suicide, Osho`s religion of birth, Jaina, if I am not mistaken, is the only established religion to have a sanctified mode of suicide: `Sallekhana` which is fasting to the death. (Hindus might quote `Sati` but if you look at the set-up closely it`s actually murder).

        Didn`t Osho once claim that this was something like what he was doing in his last life (altho` in a Tibetan context) when a disciple stabbed him to death?

        Satya Bharti wrote in her book that she had a past-life flash of being the one who did the deed in her past life.

        That fits into my theory that past-life flashes are really visions about the future. She envisaged herself stabbing Osho, which is how her self at that time would have seen writing a `negative` book about him, which is what she eventually did.

        If you have had a past-life experience yourself, you might be interested to apply this approach.
        Interpretation is endless, of course. In the past-life murder story that Osho told, he put the murder down to the disciple trying to `steal his power`. He could have been telling this to his disciples because he was aware of this kind of possibility in the group at that time and the story was a way of bringing out and maybe warding off.

        Which comes back to the authority thing: the head monkey is always under threat from subordinates trying to steal his power. In humans, of course, this becomes complex and psychologised, spiritualised and `psychic`.
        How many of those monkeys at that moment were sitting there waiting for their chance to be the top monkey in the seat and have the other monkeys doing their bidding and the female monkeys fauning over them, giving them food, sratching their itches and grooming them? History shows a fair few.

        • shantam prem says:

          Frank, this monkey game reminds me of our favourite cult; the head monkey is always under threat from subordinates trying to steal his power.

          In humans it is surely complex. The monkey mind who supplies intoxication will win the trust of the zoo boss.

          I don´t think Osho in the previous lives had learned to protect himself from the viruses of flattery. Master from small town India got honey-trapped from the people of the country who once enslaved his motherland.

          Resort in Pune is a monumental repetition of East India Company!

          • frank says:

            Shantam, you say, “The monkey mind who supplies intoxication will win the trust of the zoo boss.”

            Slightly at a tangent, this reminds me of one of the most mind-blowing books that I have read in quite a while which I picked up a few weeks ago. It`s called ‘Animals and Psychedelics. The Natural World and the Instinct to Alter Consciousness’, by an Italian biologist, Georgio Samorini.

            It`s a short book and a brief summary of present scientific enquiry into the subject of animals drugging themselves. It has completely changed how I see animals, as well as being laugh-out-loud funny in places. At times, it seems like the animal world is a kind of cross between `Jungle Book` and ‘The Furry Freak Brothers’.
            This ranges from baboons (of course) and elephants, who are infamous hard-drinkers who famously turn into hooligans as a result, through goats who are mad for magic mushrooms, right down to ants who get so stoned from imbibing the secretions of certain beetles that they end up not being able to get it together to construct their nests properly.

            After reading the book, I suddenly realised that the pigeon who has been munching away on the over-ripe crab apple berries in my back garden and then shaking his head around wildly and tottering on the branches is actually pissed out of his head!

            And it turns out the cats who are chewing my catnip and digging into certain roots in the garden are also getting seriously stoned. (The most obvious symptom to look out for, generally speaking, is wild shaking of the head that seems to serve no other purpose).

            Goats come out as serial offenders, into all sorts (which may be why they have a bit of a `satanic` rep). Of course, as is well known, these are the guys who discovered coffee in Yemen when the goatherds realised how frisky they were getting after munching the plants.

            The point of the book is that these are not accidental occurrences as has been assumed by biologists in the past, but that it can be clearly and scientifically proved by observation that animals are seeking out these plants, berries, etc. repeatedly and deliberately.

            All this goes perfectly with the generally held idea now that human hunter-gatherers settled down as farmers, largely swayed by the prospect of having a better supply of booze. (Brewing as opposed to waiting for fruits or honey to ferment, like apes and, of course, bears).

            So the idea is that we, like all animals, are hard-wired to get high.
            In this biological context, religious, yogic, ascetic, fasting, sexual, meditative practices could be specifically human ways of moving forward with the urge.

            A refinement hopefully, although in the case of a lot of what comes under asceticism, I think I`d rather be hanging with the baboons and quaffing some fermented berries, or chewing psilocybin with a few goats on a mountainside, tbh.

      • Klaus says:

        17 February, 2020 at 8:51 am

        On ‘remorse about that rare opportunity….’

        I have now experienced the demise of four of my most preferred teachers:
        U Pandita Sayadaw (died 16 April 2016)
        Bhagwan – Osho (19 January 1990)
        Motihur Rahman (died in Bangladesh 2018)
        Hyder Shah (died in Bangladesh 2018)

        Most tears have been flowing for Bhagwan, as I felt love from him most freely flowing…
        And also due to the most dubious circumstances under which ‘it all happened’.

  19. satchit says:

    Lokesh says:
    “I have a few sannyasin friends who committed suicide.”

    Sannyas means you are detached from life.
    If you are too much attached to life, suicide may follow.
    This is not a slogan but an energetic reality.

    Seems your friends have already dropped Sannyas before committing suicide.

    As far as I remember, Osho allowed suicide only in a blissful state – the authoritarian figure.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      You say, Satchit: “If you are too much attached to life, suicide may follow.”

      My take on this is quite the very opposite (!): If one is very – too much afraid of life, suicide could be following. (Very much unfortunately..).

      (And won´t respond to the last sentence of your contribution as it is (in my view) sooo much ´off the wall’).


      • satchit says:

        @ Madhu

        I think you are wrong with this idea that someone who has fear of life will commit suicide.

        If someone has fear of life then he has fear of death too. So committing suicide is not an option.

  20. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    As some reply buttons are missing (at least on my apple notebook re the caravanserai), yours, Saryadeva (this morning at 9:02am, as others from Lokesh´s anf Frank´s contributions), I´d like to second your question to Kavita, even though I´ve not been so surprised, I might say, but felt that something there and then came out – on the tip of a tongue, that was tangible before for quite some time.

    However, the whole just very recently ongoing here, reminded me of an Issue I call ´Shadow Boxing´ – and that I see a great difference re ´Boxing´ a Shadow, and the very ‘Shadow Boxing’ (see the Aikido wiki) as a spiritual and Martial Arts discipline.

    The Art of Meditation, in my view ,belongs to the latter discipine.

    And it’s quite understandably very rare in a virtual chat up to now, but may unfold later after closing the computer to let sink in what may have been triggered…

    Those, I guess, who have not ending lifelong ‘boxing’ versus people they did count or count to be authorities without looking at their own Shadow (ie their own very greed to be on top!) do have quite a hard life, as for themselves as for others.

    Sannyas – for me – was indeed an initial point for finding a home re a ´shadow boxing´ in terms of Meditation, and I will be ever grateful for that.


    • frank says:

      Btw, Madhu,
      Reply buttons seem to stop showing after each post when an individual thread goes on for some time. To keep joining that thread, scroll back up to the last reply button in the thread and click on it.That will post your post at the end of that thread.

      Cheers, Frank, no one at ‘the office’ knew about that!

  21. Lokesh says:

    Past lives? Could someone please tell me the answer to this? If one has a past life flash, how do you know it was your past life and not the life of someone else?

    • Shantam prem says:

      This was the question you should have asked Bhagwan during your one-to-one gossips or as a question for the discourse.

    • satyadeva says:

      Great question, Lokesh. I’m sure this whole area is filled with confusion, simplistic ideas and theories that are inadequate to explain the realities of the mysterious processes of death and so-called rebirth.

      For instance, besides describing a truly extraordinary process in which each of the newly dead participates (stripped down to their ‘essentials’) whereby they assiduously create the foundations and more of their next life, one master has stated that part of the process involves every newborn human being having taken on, to a greater or lesser degree, what another, previous person or persons have failed to deal with adequately in their now ended life/lives. And that something impersonal is very much involved therein.

      Thus, in the light of this, on a most profound level, ‘working on oneself’ may also be viewed as ‘working for the rest of the human race’, not, as sceptics have tended to judge, a merely selfish, even self-indulgent practice.

      • frank says:

        “If one has a past life flash, how do you know it was your past life and not the life of someone else?”
        Who can answer that, indeed?

        Also,how do you know that it’s a “past life flash” of anyone`s “past life” at all?

        It could be that trying to come up with a theory about how transmigration works as opposed to being moved by an experience that may present itself as a “past-life flash” is reminiscent of that Osho story where a philosopher and a streetwise guy are lost in a forest at night. Suddenly there`s a flash of lightning. The philosopher looks at it and starts philosophising on the nature of light and the sky. The streetwise guy looks at the ground and makes out a path on the ground which helps him get out of the forest and on the way home.

        • Lokesh says:

          Thanks to SD and Frank for sharing interesting perspectives. Good to be reminded of the flash story…a wee cracker.

          Shantam comes up with a cheap shot. For a start, any one-to-one meetings I had with Osho did not contain any elements of gossip. It was all about being open and receptive. Of course, having never met Osho, Shantam might find this difficult to grasp. A bit sad in a way, but that is the way the chappati crumbles.

          Makes me think of past lives. Perhaps our past lives are not revealed to us for a good reason. Past lives was certainly not a topic that Osho was very fond of. Once again, probably for a good reason.

          Certain perspectives have made me see reincarnation is what is happening on this planet. Then again, I question the reality of that which sees itself as that which is reincarnated. Thank fuck, life is not a problem to be solved because it is so difficult to figure out and better when simply lived.

          • satyadeva says:

            “Then again, I question the reality of that which sees itself as that which is reincarnated.”

            So do I, if, as we’re informed, the ‘person’ (with all its thoughts, preferences, opinions etc. etc.) is obliterated at death.

            “Thank fuck, life is not a problem to be solved because it is so difficult to figure out and better when simply lived.”

            I can only agree, and Frank made a similar point yesterday.

          • shantam prem says:

            Thanks Lokesh, for calling cheap shot the cheap shot. It was a cheap shot.

            Anyway, meetings with Osho are too much over-hyped. In Hindi we have a saying, dog’s tail can remain in a straight pipe for 12 years, still it remain crooked.
            There is no evidence at all that people hanging around Osho became better, reliable, integrated beings more than the others.

        • Klaus says:

          Those last few comments on “authority” etc. have sent me down the timeline, checking…

          In my understanding, the ‘sannyas process’ has (at least) two wings:
          1. Therapy – using all the different available humanistic methods.
          2. Meditation – from new sorts like dynamic, kundalini etc. to the very old sorts like mantra, breathing, vipassana etc.

          Clearly, sannyas is best of breed in the confrontational therapies section.

          About the meditations section I am not so sure; interest is turning towards past lives etc…

          Quite some time ago (2016) I saved a link to the archive regarding witnessing meditation etc.

          My favourite meditations are vipassana, Tibetan creation and dissolution style, Sufi zikhr (to answer Shantam’s last query).

          I remember the time of my first comment here on SN: I could not take the fire…and requested of Parmartha to delete my registration!

          But hey: Haven’t we come a long way?

    • Kavita says:

      Frankly, Lokesh, I did have past life flashes in my initial sannyas years but I only knew maybe our genders & my relation to them in that life, but don’t know who I was (as in chronology etc.). I did develop friendship with them.

      Some of them are still in occasional contact but there is no residue of that life anymore. In fact now I wonder if all those flashes could have just been more of my survival tactics then!

      • Lokesh says:

        Yes, Kavita. I think many of us have had past-life flashes. I recently had an intense sit-down with close friends where I spoke about my experiences during the Second World War. I became quite emotional about it at one point. I honestly felt that what I described had happened.

        In retrospect I cannot really say how such powerful impressions come about. Something else to be watched, I suppose.

        • Kavita says:

          Lokesh, I think like some Indians who experienced the 1947 calamity through their personal experience or listening to their family/dear ones, perhaps the WW calamity is for the affected area for persons/people.

          Somehow when I hear/read about such, I can not relate to it as I have not had such an experience of my own. So really cannot say much .

          ”Something else to be watched, I suppose.” This I can relate to, the only way maybe is to work on oneself, like SD said very recently here on SN.

          • frank says:

            Past-life experiences as recurring cultural PTSD nightmares?
            It`s another possibility.

            I remember from my contact with the channelling world that Air Force stories used to come up with some frequency, maybe because there was such an awful death toll in WW2 flying, not to mention the speed psychosis thrown in that the survivors probably suffered.

            • Kavita says:

              Frank, are you saying that the other possibility is that it could be true that the one could be seeing one’s past life for real? if so, if it brings powerful impressions then how can one deal with it? Then I would maybe research (if it’s possible) whether this could be true.

              Somehow, I think and feel it’s best to deal with the current life/situation.

              Lokesh is probably just sharing his experience because it’s therapuetic for him.

              • Lokesh says:

                Kavita, there is not therapuetic reason for me to mention such things on a public website. If such a need arose I have friends for that. I mentioned it in relation to the thread.

                I do not mind sharing the experience:

                My father was a professional soldier. His dream was for me to follow in his footsteps and rise further in the ranks than he did. I became a hippy instead.

                Nonetheless, I have always had a slightly military bearing. I love war films like 1917. As a child I was obsessed with war comics etc. For a time some of my associates called me ‘Commander’, which is not something I am particularly proud about. During the psychedelic times I took 500mikes of pure acid and had a vision of being in a trench that took a direct hit from a shell. I married a German woman and I like Germany and have driven German manufactured cars for my entire adult life.

                During an intense meeting with friends I confessesd that I believed that I had been a German tank commander during World War Two in Europe. I was not a Nazi but rather a dedicated member of the Wehrmacht. I have had visions of being in a tank turret, surveying my surroundings with high powered binoculars and was responsible for the death of numerous people, including non-combatants.

                I did not feel bad about it as I was grounded in the firm belief that I was doing my duty for the Fatherland. I remember giving the order to fire when a target was lined up and feeling satisfied that I was doing a professional job of destroying enemy positions etc.

                In writing this I have no feelings other than that of sharing. As I said earlier, I have no idea where these impressions came from and whether or not they belong to me as an individual entity who travels from body to body. I also have a recollection of being a female pioneer in America, a minor male official in the shogunate of Japan etc.

                In my late teens I belonged to a small group of friends and it felt like we had unfinished karmic business to work out from another time. I have remained friends with those people for most of my life, although as we aged we all moved in very different directions. All of those people became sannyasins. There you go. Food for thought.

                • Kavita says:

                  Me too thought that was ”karmic business” when I had those flashes. I didn’t share that with those persons whom I thought/were from my past life but only with few close mutual friends.

                  Food for thought for me for sure is that these are all sannyasins in my case too!

                  So then what Osho said, “There is no relationship between disciples. The only relationship is between the master and the individual disciple”, could be true in this context!

                • frank says:

                  Kavita, you wrote:
                  “Are you saying that the other possibility is that it could be true that the one could be seeing one’s past life for real?”

                  I think there are many possible interpretations about what is happening, from taking it as literal thing that happened in a past-life to any amount of other symbolic interpretations. For example, off the top of my head, Lokesh`s experience of being “blasted” in a trench could have been the unconscious mind coming up with a metaphor for his state at that moment!

                  The tank commander thing could be a part of himself, a ‘sub-personality’ if you like, that his friends also noticed with their nickname. Or it could have been an actual tank commander whom he met in some kind of parallel universe. Parallel universe ideas are popular these days for stuff that used to be ‘astral’ etc.

                  I did a past-life workshop on the Ranch and also tried some other hypnotic regressions and had some strange experiences. At the time, I believed that they were past lives pure and simple. As time has gone by I have reconsidered them in the light of `further developments`. I notice they kind of work as dreams, that is inner dramas about recognisable parts of myself. Again,this is only one of many options.

                  Someone recently was telling me about Charles Dickens and how, staggeringly, he created nearly a thousand different and detailed characters in his literary works. These characters and the plots apparently appeared to the man and unfolded before his eyes. These characters are still remembered much better than people who actually lived, even for those who have only seen the movies, like me. Who were these people and where did they come from?

                  If he had not had a gift for writing or was born in the East, maybe he might have thought they were characters from his past lives.

                  I wonder how much we can know. I suspect it’s something like swimming a few hundred yards out to sea compared to the expanse and depth of the ocean.

                  Also,like the universe, the more scientists find out about it, the bigger it seems to become!
                  Phew! I think I`m going to have a little lie-down!

                • Lokesh says:

                  “I rode a tank, held a general’s rank
                  When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank…”

                  Could this have something to do with a past life? Hoo hoo!

                • frank says:

                  Apparently there was a character in one of Dickens` novels, Mr Dick, (who they think may have been based on the author himself), who was an obsessive who was convinced that he was the involuntary receiver of the torrent of thoughts that emanated out of Charles 1st`s decapitated head.
                  Sounds a bit pastlifey.

                  One afternoon, about 30 years ago, she tells me, my partner started to feel her vibrations vibrating at a ridiculously high level. Then she was taken up into some kind of place, possibly a spaceship high above the earth and as she looked down on the planet out of a huge window from this immense height, she was showered with unconditional love by invisble angels or aliens for an unspecified length of time. She returned unharmed and very blissed out.

                  She still has no idea what it was all about. She`s not into sci-fi or angels and has never shown any serious mental disturbance (other than living with me).

                • satchit says:

                  Being married with a German woman, dreaming of being a German tank commander, Mr. Freud would say: this is suppressed libido!

                • Levina says:

                  I find that Voice Dialogue is an excellent way to have a dialogue/talk with my sub-personalities. Instead of talking about the different personalities which are in us/me (which is usually done by the explainer/narrator).

                  I speak directly to the part itself, and let it talk to me. I find it very revealing and also easy to go to the core. In dreams, when I think, “what was that all about?” Weird characters or landscapes are part of me, and have a story to tell, The same for people I might not like. Anyhow, I find it highly recommendable. (Btw, this is your therapeutic counsellor speaking…).

                • swamishanti says:

                  Perhaps you should have been part of the ‘Peace Force’ at the Ranch, Lokesh, or even better, been part of that protection unit who received weapons training as part of their ‘worship’. Bowing down and chanting the gachamis before target practice and all. I rather enjoyed watching that footage in the Netflix film.

                  I do believe that the commune had rather a large cache of weapons, including some heavy artillery, rocket- propelled grenades? That you could have enjoyed.

                  After all, it may have been necessary to kill people to stay in Oregon, there were a lot of death threats and xenophobia from angry locals and some Christians, anti-cult groups were stirring up the pot and other hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan had sent threatening letters that they wanted to invade and kill Bhagwan and all the animals on the Ranch.

                  Sannyasins had to show that they were capable of retaliating, otherwise there could have easily been a rather nasty scene, with lots of bloodshed.

                • frank says:

                  You`re right.
                  Talking to yourself is the first sign of sanity!

              • Lokesh says:

                “In the depths of my heart I can’t help being convinced that my dear fellow-men, with a few exceptions, are worthless.” (Freud).

                Reading your projection, Satchit, I tend to agree with Siggy.

        • shantam prem says:

          Lokesh, you have participated in world war two, can’t say from which side, when we think something like this exists. Apple does not fall far away from tree.

          In my case, I can relate well with Christian priests and monasteries, when I enter churches, they feel like part of my DNA.

          Osho also became milestone because of His vision of commune. Commune was an evolution of monastery, monastery where monks and nuns don´t live segregated but in harmony of love.

          Was a good idea though to fuck love is the easiest possible contamination. Followers did it brutally by honey-trapping the founder.

  22. Shantam prem says:

    In new age tabloid called Oshonews, mostly I read headlines, but there is an article about Osho’s past life mother.

    It was soothing to read, master too was student in previous lives, so there is no scope of this tag line, “visited this planet earth”, God knows from which planet.

    In my understanding, future won’t avoid human side of spiritual masters and masters will be careful not to leave behind myth and fantasies.

    • frank says:

      Shantam, you say, in response to reading a story about `Osho`s past-life mother`:
      “It was soothing to read, master too was student in previous lives.”
      Whatever theory of transmigration you may accept or not, you have reacted to this story in the way that we all react to stories, fables, dreams: you have interpreted it according to your need.

      I think that is the key to “past-life flashes”.

      The objective reality of the nuts and bolts of reincarnation itself, other than the basic mono-plot that we are all taking on stuff from the past, sifting it, making it better or worse and passing the same to the future, is the realm of occult sci-fi. Fun, but probably irrelevant to the task in hand.

    • Kavita says:

      Thanks, Shantam, for mentioning the article in Osho News.

  23. shantam prem says:

    Do guru people ever tell which meditation made them:The Master!

  24. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    Perhaps someone remembers that story, I read it in some deck of Osho cards, where a Master gives a small object to a disciple, who begins to harmonise the other objects around it in a concentric and progressive way with respect to the distance from it, ending up with the change of the structure of the house itself.

    I don’t know the impact that Osho could have had in the life of a Thatcherist and warmongering journalist like B.Levin, if that meeting was the beginning of something or an isolated episode, like a nice trip.
    I don’t know if the intellectual honesty that seems to me to transpire in his chronicle of a journey at the feet of the Master was only the first step for a deeper transformation, or if an intellectual man manages to keep very different mental objects close together without ever having to choose their harmonisation (coherence) and take charge of the consequences.

    It happened to me, as soon as I read about Osho’s death, and that therefore I could no longer meet him physically, to look for him with a new urgency in his books. I chose ‘Dynamic Meditation, the First and Last Freedom’ – the title says a lot, about my fear, of how ripe the fruit was…

    Yet, in the time of maturation, fear had not stopped me, having attempted spiritual, social, chemical, relational options, etc. that avoided that one of becoming an adept, in order to experience again that ecstasy lived and then lost in adolescence, the same perceived in those images on TV of the guru in RR of about 7 years before.

    Speaking of suicide, I think that the frustration of not being able to reconnect to one’s own glory (“how beautiful a man can be”) could be heavy in moments of misery, together with the weight of the consequences of those moments of misery on people who we love, or potential loved ones.

    However, I leave the freedom and wisdom of everyone to decide on their own end of life; to me the idea of ​​being limited in the freedom to express joy because sick, tired but satisfied by life, would make the last great orgasmic emotion palatable, the return to Before/After/Always/Everything/Nothing.

  25. shantam prem says:

    To hear or think the word “master” makes me feel giddy. What an unfitting narcissistic expression for religious teachers.

    I don´t think future of spirituality will allow anyone to use sentimental jargon to catch people in the name of love, meditation, prayers etc.

    In a way, Osho was the last Indian guru to spread this master disciple emotional net around the globe, his catches were of different time and age. Somehow humanity has become mature to see the Saga of Bhagwan and his people.

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

      The age of masters is certainly over!
      21st century is age of master-debaters!
      And single-handedly, you have earned place amongst the greats!

      By simply sitting in front of computer, switching off mind and spontaneously leaving dextrous thumb and forefinger do the work, over the years, your persistent ejaculations have made quite a splash on your Facebook wall!

      Your invisible readers are positively drenched in the wisdom that has burst forth as if from the gonads of yogis and sages of mighty Bhorat themselves!

      In midst of global crises, AIDS epidemic and population explosion, the twilight of the idols is upon us and, now the message is clearer than ever: master-debating is the only hope for humanity!

      Hari Om!

      • shantam prem says:

        Shelf life of messiahs and masters is over.
        New arrival is Seekers and Seers: seers who don´t have opinion about everything on this earth, and the seekers who avoid such bluffery, God* is dead, Osho* is never born, never died.

        God and Osho are generic terms.

        • satyadeva says:

          I think you might misunderstand these terms, Shantam.

          ‘God id dead’ refers to the concept of ‘God’, the traditional view perpetuated by ‘official’ religions, which has been severely undermined by science and intellectual materialism, the dominant philosophy of the age.

          ‘Never born, never died’ surely refers to the innermost, deepest spiritual essence (for want of a better description) of Osho or of anyone who reaches the ‘highest Truth’.

          • shantam prem says:

            Fact is, Osho has left behind series of concepts, half-cooked theories; cult in his name waters those concepts and deletes those theories to create a phantom figure like previous religious heads.

            • satyadeva says:

              Perhaps you’d like to give examples of these “concepts, half-cooked theories” of Osho, and how they’ve been manipulated in the way you claim, Shantam.

              • Shantam prem says:

                SD, if it was not true, there was no need for you to go to all kind of gurus.

                Try to imagine same yardstick for Osho, the one he used for the others.

                • sw. veet (francesco) says:

                  “SD, if it was not true, there was no need for you to go to all kind of gurus.” (Shantam)

                  Are you saying, Shantam, that people like you who don’t go to all kind of gurus are proof that it’s not true that “Osho has left behind series of concepts, half-cooked theories”?

                  If so, I agree with you, and not with some idiot who is worried that cult in his name might “waters those concepts and deletes those theories to create a phantom figure like previous religious heads”.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Shantam, this is another spurious notion of yours. No spiritual movement, even one as eclectic as Sannyas, can be expected to totally satisfy everyone at all times. That’s why many teachers and teachings exist.

                  Your comments reveal that you see things from the perspective of a ‘cultist’, notwithstanding your critical remarks about Osho’s “half-cooked theories” and the “followers” who, you say, wrecked everything.

                  You conveniently forget that one primary thing Osho stood for was the integrity, the psycho-spritual growth of the individual; all else that he set up was ultimately to serve that. He totally respected our freedom to choose, to go our own way if moved to, declaring “I bless all methods, all genuine seeking, all paths.*

                  *(Quoted from memory, so not necessarily his exact words).

          • shantam prem says:

            Deeper spiritual essence used on a tombstone – My God!

        • Klaus says:

          I feel this is interesting regarding “the roles being played” in the spiritual sections.

          Vipassana – Insight Meditation – Mindfulness came to the West starting with Western students studying in the East, mainly in
          Myanmar (Burma, Mahasi Sayadaw: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasi_Sayadaw) and
          Thailand (Ajahn Cha: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajahn_Chah Ajahn Buddadasa: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhadasa).

          Some of these students returned to the West and – for instance – founded the “Insight Meditation Society, Barre, Massachussettes” (https://www.dharma.org/) or – for another instance – “Gaia House, England” (https://gaiahouse.co.uk/).

          There is a story about a co-worker at the “Insight Meditation Society – (IMS)” who was also a dedicated meditator, his name being Jeffrey S. Brooks (Arahatta Jhanananda). He took part in the retreats at “IMS” and also did many self retreats in the mountains in Arizona.
          Story here:

          Crux in short:
          Quote not literal
          “He considered himself an accomplished meditator and asked at the “IMS” whether he could also be a teacher there; however, he has been requested to give evidence of “authorisation by a teacher or lineage”. He did not have such credentials.
          Lateron, he left on his own and proclaimed to have attained to the stage of “Sotapanna” (Buddhist term) on the internet. This caused complaints by traditional Buddhist, as this meant breaking a taboo (not bragging or even talking about states of realisation…).
          Next, he proclaimed to have attained to “full arahatship”.
          He also stated, that “there is no realisation at the IMS…”.
          As a consequence, he lives and practices without the background of an organisation or lineage or authorising teacher.

          He is a specialist in describing the various “jhanas” that happen in meditation.
          There are some – controversial – videos by him on the U-tube, for instance:

          Other meditation retreat programms today are bent on teaching “secular style” meditation, i.e. not using any of the traditional names concepts wordings etc.

          This is not an ad for something, rather showing some of the developments which Shantam hints at in his comment.

          • sw. veet (francesco) says:

            Thanks for the information, Klaus, your dedication to corroborating your Aryan brother Shantam’s uncontroversial theses would be moving, if the tears weren’t due to yawning.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      “Spirituality”, Shantam, is a reification, it cannot allow a worthy piece of penis, nor can it decide who “his people” were/are.

      Your point of view is as controversial as that of Klaus or anyone else, your appeal to future generations to look objectively/non-controversially at the Bhagwan saga is pathetic, especially in the eyes of those who will read the presumptuous things you write here.

      Let me understand, those of the Resort are on your ass (Italian expression for ‘annoying weight’, assuming that the expression, with annoyance, also applies to you) because they are too cynical in fulfilling the cynical task of freeing the disciples from devotion for Osho, but, at the same time, also those who cultivate a feeling of gratitude for Osho bother you?

      Those same people, that is, who would be your natural allies to realise your anti-cynicism agenda (if money and power are antithetical to gratitude)?

      Everything is questionable and controversial, and everything can be useful to shake the castle of beliefs founded on the words that try to describe reality. Then there are the things said/written without a minimum of formal rigour and intellectual honesty, which when taken in consideration leave the feeling of having wasted time, leaving each other’s castles intact.

      Now that I focus more on the matter, and if it is true that in Pune the people in charge are interested only in their own asshole (pussies, power, money, champagne), I am no longer sure that I would better see a hieratic ayatollah like you in their place, at least a glass of wine occasionally lets some truth come out.

      If I hurt you I’m sorry, drink a beer over it, drink it with Klaus while exchanging objective information.

  26. Klaus says:

    “controversial” being a generalisation. I take his statements as information.

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