Anger And Aggression In The World (“Anger Is Poison” – Osho)

Lokesh reflects on his personal experience, on Osho’s teaching and on  living in a violent world on the brink of self-destruction.. 

Anger has never been a particularly big issue in my life, which does not mean I have not had to deal with it. I have. It was during the seventies group process in Poona that I was forced to look at and deal with my anger. Up until then I was running on my hippy peace and love code, which was wearing a bit thin by then.

It came to a head in Teertha’s notorious encounter group, when Poonam focused her astute attention upon me. ‘Oh dear,’ she said, somewhat sarcastically, ‘Not another one of those poor boys who grew up in Glasgow. And you were such a sensitive child.’ It was true. And Poonam nailed it for me  that afternoon in a padded room. What eventually transpired was a thick veil being lifted from my eyes, a screen that had until then made me view all males as potential threats. The reptilian brain fight or flight programme. What a relief it was to have that curtain lifted from my eyes so that I could view men not as potential threats, but as possible brothers and friends on the path of life.

Once I got into my anger I found that doing Dynamic Meditation daily for several years helped tremendously…to a point. Anger is energy and blowing it out of your system is healthy, but I do not believe hyperventilating and jumping up and down going “hoo, hoo, hoo” every morning for the rest of your life is. Dynamic faded and I moved into the ‘work is worship’ phase.

I have had a long-lasting relationship and when you let another person into your heart to a great extent anger will inevitably arise, because the other knows you and lets you know that. The mirror. Such an intimate reflection can bring up anger. I worked through those uncomfortable reflections and, for the most part, led a peaceful, adventurous and fun-filled life with a couple of trips into the abyss just to remind me life is not all fun and games.

I have reached a point in my life where I do not like to experience intense anger. I see it as a destructive force. I work on being a wholesome human being. I keep my energy positive, without denying the negative. I endeavour to be kind and loving and sensitive with as many people as I can. I adore animals. I like to keep it high and let those good vibes flow. A sudden flash of anger can ruin weeks of positive and constructive work on keeping my vibe pure. It can also take me days to process an angry outburst with the accompanying inner disturbance anger brings.  Osho is right. Anger is poison.

I only once witnessed Osho being angry, at a darshan on the back porch, when an Italian woman threw a shoe at him. The shoe missed Osho by inches and hit Laxmi on the head. Osho was, quite justifiably, pissed off. He was cool about it. Stone cold. You could see it in his eyes. The mad Italian was forcibly removed, kicking and screaming.

I have heard Osho talk about how if you become aware when angry the anger will soon diminish and transform into compassion etc.. Sounds good in a perfect world, but I do not entirely agree. I have been aware when angry with someone and all I felt was anger towards that person. Plain and simple. What to do? Feeling guilty about expressing one´s anger is no solution.  My favourite tool for working on my personal aggression is a six pound axe. Last time I had an angry episode I chopped a lot of firewood during the following days. I also moved a pile of rubble that I had been getting around to clearing for the past year.

As I see it, modern-day society is becoming more aggressive by the day. We live in a violent civilization. Yet, speaking for all of us here on SN, we are peace-loving people at heart. What to do when you run into an aggressive social situation?

When I look at the final days of Rajneeshpuram, for instance, I think a violent confrontation with the American authorities was just around the corner. Osho was not Jesus. He did not believe in turning the other cheek. Back in the Poona One days, Laxmi sent a platoon of martial arts experts round to Cafe Delight to beat the shit out of a gang of Iranian students who had raped a young sannyasin women. There are many instances where it was made very clear that sannyasins knew how to stand up for themselves. How to be in the world but not of it, when faced by an aggressor­?­­­

This very body the Buddha, this very place the Lotus Paradise. Well, yes, some days sitting in my beautiful garden on Ibiza, talking to my Siamese cats as the sun goes down, life seems perfect. Then again, I am very much aware that our species is on the brink of a global environmental catastrophe brought on by greed and selfishness. In spite of man´s remarkable breakthroughs in the field of medicine, our incredible music, works of art, dividing the atom, developing computers, landing on the moon  etc. this world still seems to me to be pretty dense, primitive. Maybe the Earth is a prison planet since we seem to be a naturally violent species and we are here until we learn to conduct ourselves in a more peaceful manner.

It is not difficult to imagine a better world. Yet, this is the only world we have right now. How to keep our spirit pure in such a sometimes violent, troubling and confusing world?


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83 Responses to Anger And Aggression In The World (“Anger Is Poison” – Osho)

  1. Prem Ritvik says:

    It is indeed true that at any time there is going to be a catastrophe.

    Isis destroyed cultural heritage, world heritage of Palmyra.

    Trump threatened to destroy 52 cultural sites of Iran. This would have cost a lot to the Sufi heritage.

    Recently I observed, when I planted a tree, how tough it is, tougher than taking a grown-up tree down. Destroying was so easy and re-growing so tough. Delhi, my city, has visible pollution, you can see it with your eyes, and recently in protest against government, everyone forgot this and burnedf public transport buses. Indians have given no innovation to the world, every technology they have imported and our students burned down what they cannot create.

    Why?

    I understood only when I participated in building. The tree will need years of care to grow large and significant with respect to problem Delhi faces.

    Creativity requires much more than destruction.

    Terrorists recruit youngsters who have had no opportunity to create but are able to destroy. For them, destroying Palmyra was the perfect thing, old and ruins after all, but I ask what is their idea of civilisation? That will need creativity, patience and care for any results to come out.

    And to what culture does Trump belong? The one which has chosen money which is basic as the highest. What does culture mean if it is not practical to your needs? If a cow does not give milk, better have it slaughtered and take the profit for hide than have it alive and occupy your space. Agreed it has some sensitivity as a living being but it is impractical for your profit, your money which runs your world.

    The problem, is, either these people who have destruction and domination alone as their wish think alone in the lines of survival of the fittest and have emblazoned their senses with insensitive expansion plans. Then these people have directed those of capacity of creativity into aims of destruction.

    How rich is a country to elect a man who promises to destroy the highest of a country much poorer?

    Problem is this arms race of insensitive monkeys. I hope soon they acquire space so earth is spared of their nonsensical wars.

    Solution is to take up maths for the love of Pythagoras and help advance technology so the wars can quickly develop in space and the Earth is spared.

  2. satchit says:

    Yes, Lokesh, human beings are aggressive.
    If they would not have been aggressive and instead ‘sat and meditated’
    during the evolution of beings, maybe now sabre-toothed tigers would rule the world, and not mankind.

    I remember in my teens I was also thinking that being peaceful is the goal. But now when I look back, I think more it was suppressed aggression.

    Did you also refuse military service?

    Certainly the situation did not become better since our teens.
    The population did grow and grow. The weapons did become more and more efficient. The abyss did come closer and closer. Maybe just a question of time, someone goes all in.

    Cheers.

  3. Lokesh says:

    Satchit, it was my father’s dream that I join the military, because he was a professional soldier training regiments in Africa. I became a professional seeker of truth because the pay is better.

  4. frank says:

    Anger is not so much the poison, it is more hate or rage, which is anger drawn out over time that is really poisonous, isn`t it?

    I think there is also a difference between anger and violence. Anger doesn`t have to lead to violence. It`s not so bad to be angry if you don`t end up whacking people, joining ISIS, becoming a serial killer or whatever.

    Anger is `hardwired`. The degree of violence that comes out of that is quite mutable. For example, it`s definitely annoying to have someone cut you up on the road, but you can either just shake your head or do a Vinnie Jones and brain the guy with a baseball bat.

    Hate is more like:
    You file it away: “BMW drivers, assholes, foreigners, poofs” etc., then one day you see one too many and you get your knife out!

    I guess, on the social/world level, what`s needed is to find the release level that`s handleable for everyone involved.

    Personally speaking, I would say the lesson from doing Dynamic and so on is that exercise with the right intent can definitely reduce or dispel the anger, although I think the kind of ‘Newtonian Physics’ approach of ‘having’ a certain ‘quantity’ of anger then catharting it bit by bit until it is gone is, in the long run, somewhat inaccurate.

    Either way, chopping wood or running up a hill and such like definitely helps. Maybe it just provokes positive endorphins etc. which make you less bothered about other people`s `wrongness`.

    Having a laugh is another one. That includes having a good physical laugh, making a joke at someone else`s expense, your own (more difficult) and/or just seeing the funny side.

    It also helps to be/act a bit more like a kid. They are likely to kick off, freak out, burst into tears and then forget about it all 5 minutes later. It`s not such a big deal. That`s what me and my partner tend to do. I guess we are a bit retarded!

    My dad passed away not long ago. He was 95. In the last years, I spent a lot of time with him. It happened that I would hear this loud cursing and swearing and torrent of bad language coming from his room. I would think: ”Shit, something disastrous has happened” and rush in there. He would be just sat there on the bed struggling to put his socks on! To his credit, he would have a chuckle about it.

    Anger is all about not getting what you want!
    If you don`t want anything in the first place, then you`ve nailed it, according to saints and wiseguys.

    I`m on the case, but my sainthood is still in the post, like most of us, I guess.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      So true, Frank; it’s NOT anger that is the poison.

      Anger itself I experience on the contrary as a quite healthy reaction (an honest physiological marker if you then take your time to FEEL before, like a robot, going into reaction whatsoever.

      It´s quite an accurate marker of response re any state of being cheated, tresspassed, even raped, taken hostage etc. (the list is much longer). It´s as well quite a marker when you face noisy stupidity in combination with a lurking violence underneath which is almost tangeile.

      The so-called spiritual scene is full of such, as the masquerades of (hardly) hidden ambition and greed are manifold.

      This way, ´anger´ holds a threshold of ´enlightening´ aspects and Issues in a unique way for any individual.

      But this threshold only gives you its gift, in the combination of neither supressing it nor reacting to it. (The small conclusion in brackets beside the topic seems to me distorting Osho´s numerous takes on the Issue (of ´anger´) btw).

      Facilitating the Dynamic Meditation, to feel, to cathart, to regain the energy released from the ‘frozen’ status (the “HOO!HOO!HOO!”…) in the Hara, the silent awareness and on top of it, the celebrational dance or whatsoever may be coming. The Catharsis is just one part of the whole stuff. But unfortuanately the one which gets the most sensational interest it seems. And this way mirrors this extreme situation most of the societies in rich industrial areas are in.

      Times ago, I met so many of those who were catharting all day long and taking their pride doing that; acting out their violence and bragging about being such ´good´ mediatators…and taking scapegoats, one can say, for refining their ´image´ as top-dogs-´Dynamics´.

      Too bad…forget it…!

      And again, you are right, Frank, when you are pointing out that anger can be responded to in a more creative way, maybe to make space for a laughter of recognizing some issue.

      You helped me out, Frank, when I´d been quite busy the other day, having found some words to write re Prem Dharma´s elaboration which indeed made me angry quite the way Prem Ritvik´s ones have the ability to make me angry about this unbearable wishy-washy, pseudo-esoteric stuff.

      And then, exactly the moment I gave it a send-off the other day, the algorithm of Word-Press systems (as Satydeva called it) sucked my mail to SN into oblivion…and I´ve been angry again, as the writing had taken a lot of effort and time…

      I went for a walk then. And – times after – when staring my notebook again, I read your update re Prem Dharma, Frank, and can assure you that I´ve had such a healthy and good laughter here at my place and – for the moment; was just finished with the crap-of-the mind!

      And thank you very much, Frank, for this.
      (I´m writing that because it´s just such a good example for naming ´crap´ crap and going towards a convenient direction re release (and dissolution).

      Our website SN/UK is full of anger I feel and sometimes some very creative bits and pieces come out of it; and I appreciate that.

      Very much so. And more so when stuff, which is really almost unbearable to read (swallow) can be dissolved.

      Madhu

      P.S:
      The virtual space is so full of anger, and may be – by chance – full of creative inspiration too.

      The problem: seems to me, the lack of response is an inability issue as the physical contact (a possible compassion-tank) is missing and quite often gives way for psychpaths to join: those who deny to FEEL and to feel a possibly other human being as a receiver on some unknowable other side of the stage…

      Re the latter: nothing much can be done about it. Just heighten up Awareness

      Maybe sometimes taking more time to respond as well as practising the awareness that no man is an island.

      These last weks again I´m into research about misuse Issues of wanne-be Teachers as well as their ´followers. And due to entering SN/UK I’m getting so much inspiration for that research

      So my end of this eve´s story – not only the PSs and PPSs, is gratefulness, gratefulness, gratefulness….

      • Prem Dharma says:

        Even though I did not attack you – you wanted to send your bile and your venom my way.

        When by some divine coincidence the comments were blocked: you had to swallow your own bile.

        This is why you had to go for a walk – you were full of your own bile and you could not send it to me.

        To everybody, if my comments were wrong, and you are so much smarter:
        Maybe write something positive, something better than I did. Maybe show me where I am wrong.

        But some of the comments were pure venom and bile, hence I did not reply and will not reply to such comments.

        MOD:
        The above comments relate to the previous article.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Dharma!

          Madhu had certainly unleashed a blitzkrieg of bile and a V1 of venom at you! You, who has done nothing wrong and are merely innocently offering up other people`s opinions as your own!

          Certainly, you are not wrong! The only mistake you have made is in expecting the baboons of SN to understand the esoteric secrets of the bottom-sniffers of ancient mighty Bhorat!

          The spiritually blind fools at Sannyas News could not smell their way out of an Indian public toilet during outbreak of dysentery, let alone get a decent whiff of an aromatic avatar!

          Take heart, Dharma, this is the way of the world! The enlightened one is always crucified by the unconscious masses! Take care to walk on by like Ganesh on the way back from his plastic surgeon and past barking dogs and laughing baboons of lower consciousness!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

          • Prem Ritvik says:

            Ahh shit, here we go again….

          • Prem Ritvik says:

            Hello Anand Yogi,
            I would like to tell you that today I went to zoo!
            It had baboons too, but they seemed to be on holiday today :(
            But I got to see a similar species! :)

            I felt also, looking at how they had a fight and how every attempt was made by zoo authorities by land and water to keep them away from humans, that if you are touched by Sannyasnews, you should be kept in a way suitable to this. Or maybe better.

            So much fun today!
            Fun fun fun fun fun!

            • anand yogi says:

              Beloved Prem Dipstik,
              Do not make the mistake of trying to be funny about matters on which the survival of the Dharma itself rests!

              Enlightenment and the people seeking it are a serious business!
              Certainly, “fun” is simply the desire of the revolting unconscious, rutting western baboon as he seeks to have his genital organs titillated, tickled and titivated in a thoroughly unsattvic way! Unless, of course, it is integrated into its proper place as part of a fundamentalist world view as laid down by the 5000 year-old diktats of the sages of mighty Bhorat!

              Swami Bhorat himself would like to remind you that ”the student who fails to take the words of the guru seriously goes to the 7th Hell, where one is thrown into fire, and again revives, and again is thrown into the fire and then roasted on a rotating trishul and this will continue for a million years in this Hell. Later he will be born into the pigs family!”

              You may have escaped from one zoo unscathed but you appear to have got stuck in the spiritual pig-sty known as Sannyasnews with little hope of wading free!

              Swami Bhorat recently had a top-level meeting with Amma and other high level dignitaries of a very spiritual nature in Tiruvannamalai where just these sorts of problems were discussed! They decided that whereas they themselves only felt unconditional love and pity for those who fail to take them seriously, their unconditional love also extends to members of RSS and Hindu white-robe KKK divisions who may instigate remedial action and karmic retribution in their name!

              Love!
              Yahoo!
              Hari Om!

        • satyadeva says:

          Prem Dharma, how do you know that Madhu’s unsent response to your post was “full of bile” and “venom”?

          She’s said she felt “angry about this unbearable wishy-washy, pseudo-esoteric stuff”. Which doesn’t necessarily imply she wanted to launch a personal attack on you.

          Personally, I found your post irritating yet also entertaining, so absurd that I wondered whether it was a hoax, the suggestion that authenticating ‘enlightenment’ by testing for the presence of ‘spiritualised perfume’ permeating the body of the ‘claimant’ one rich in comic potential.

          The whole idea is a strange mixture of what sounds suspiciously like ‘esoteric bullshit’ and the great ‘God’ of our intellectual-materialist times, science.

          Is there a scientific test for ‘esoteric bullshit’? Yes, informed common sense!

          And God help us if we think we have to rely on science to recognise what’s good for our ‘souls’ (as it were) rather than trusting our ‘inner sense’ to lead us towards what we’re informed is ‘all-knowing innocence’.

  5. frank says:

    Btw, Lokesh,
    Thanks for the reminder that “Osho was not Jesus” via your Café Delight story, which I think is a good insight into the `beyond good and evil` world of India and Sannyas both, which, looking back, no doubt fed in to the Oregon story.

    I remember in the overland days, staying on the houseboats on the ghats at Varanasi (1 rupee/night!). A local guy who was drugging some freaks and nicking their money got caught by the brahmins who ruled the roost in that part of the ghat. They set about him with big sticks and they broke his back. Next day, with another freaky girl, we remonstrated with them that it was a bit of a heavy sentence. They weren`t having it. The main guy just looked us in the eye and said, “It was his karma”.

    Under the circumstances, we decided to defer to his superior knowledge of Vedic philosophy!

    It`s a dog eat dog world out there, for sure.

    I was just reading some transcripts of conversations by Terence McKenna and Rupeet Sheldrake in the 80s. They were saying how ancient tribes all took mushrooms and other psychoactives, tripped out and as a result had no real ego to speak of. After a good day`s hunting they came back to the fire, enjoyed communal eating, had a sing-song, then group sex and then just crashed anywhere, as they didn`t have trips about `having their own place` cos they had no possessions.

    And things only went bad when the ego started appearing and uptight patriarchal control freaks banned mushrooms and set up an ego-based religion that just wasn`t cool, man!

    Sweet dreams are made of this!

    MOD:
    The “Cafe Delight” – wasn’t that spelt “Cafe Delite”? (Sorry, I’m a pedant about things like that and I had many meals there, living nearby).

  6. Lokesh says:

    Good posts, Frank. Enjoyed reading them.

    Was in Varanasi back in ’71. Tripped with some scruffy sadhus. I remember it was pretty weird and that is about it. Those were great times.

    • bob says:

      Anger, hate and rage can be diffused or catharted by all the techniques mentioned already by the above posts, but those surely aren’t final solutions, because the causes of these emotions keep on impacting you throughout your life. Just the nature of this existence.

      I think a person finally has to come to an understanding of the whole phenomenon – and not be controlled by those negative forces that continually subject the quite sensitive human organism to the things that give those emotions birth. Easier said than done, I know.

      But I think “aggression” has got a fairly undeserved bad rap lately…meaning maybe the last hundred years or so. There was European colonial aggression worldwide which took its lumps, industrial technological aggression of machine over man, the strong over the weak, the smarter over the dumber, the rich trump the poor, and so on. A shitload of collateral damage for sure, along with the enormous benefits that were sown as part of the evolutionary progress of it all.

      Nature has a long history of inbuilt very aggressive tendencies that are indispensable to the very fundamentals of life – the male sexual impetus being one essential one, for example. You wouldn’t be here reading this without it being hardwired into your paternal ancestral bloodline.

      And how about the Sun, that thermonuclear explosion that never takes a break – quite a display of overtly aggressive fusion physics – that gives us all our energy sources on this planet, from your bacon butty to the space heater from Lidl’s that warms you when your main central heating goes on the blink – hey, that too!

      I mean, look, without the Sun’s violent non-stop catharsis, you could not even ‘get’ angry, or sad, or loving for that matter – you wouldn’t have a piss-ant’s energy to search for the Truth, get enlightened, or even write a sub-par, mediocre, fairly worthless post on SN. Think about it.

      Now, just don’t get too close, Icarus, or you’ll melt those pretty wings, or too far away, you’ll freeze your fucking ass off!

      “Everything in moderation”, says the Buddha…spot on there, sir!

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Thank you (again) for raising your moderating, moderate voice here re that special thread topic and it’s taking its gears, Bob (30 January at 9:13 pm).
        I know it’s quite ´late´ to respond to that; however, I’d like to give this feedback seeing how it´s going these days – kind of getting stuck in seemingly East-West structural difficulties, I feel, and I´m sorry about it.

        Madhu

        * Whatever the Buddha was sharing some ages ago has left quite different imprints on “mind” (mindfulness) in different cultural contexts, hasn’t it?

        We´re living in precarious (confused) times, aren’t we?

  7. Levina says:

    Anger/irritation in my experience arises when I am not in agreement, not with the flow, with what happens in this moment. So in my case that’s pretty much all the time, sometimes big, sometimes small, sometimes not at all when there is total acceptance of what is, which is usually after a period of struggle-anger.

    What I also discover in the process is that it’s about totality; when I totally let rip with anger I always have to laugh as well. When there’s a judgement about it, it becomes irritating, to myself and others.

    I agree with Madhu that in the early days catharting, expressing anger became a sort of oneupmanship: “I can cathart better than you, fuck you!”

    Actually I’m talking about myself, experiences at the Humaniversity, catharting till you are blue in the face, plus a lack of sleep, just feeling exhausted, and then out of the blue the bliss…but you had to bloody well work for it!

    It’s a kind of koan, anger can give a temporary release, but the root is disatisfation with what is. And yes, of course it is healthy to get angry when somebody/circumstances invade your physical/psychological space. And maybe it’s also totally “healthy” to get totally pissed off with this whole Maya before seeing what it really is!

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Levina, I have known people who, thanks to the world of Osho, have come out of heroin addiction. The Humaniversity is not the world of Osho but of Veeresh.

      It is a therapeutic community that owes its fortune to the charisma of the founder who, thanks to his experience, knows how to deal with the anger of the bad neighborhoods, with their horizontal dimension.

      The main limit, imho, of charismatic-led therapeutic communities, apart from the risk that all that weight could collapse the boss, is that one’s clients end up fatally dependent on that father-figure and people close to him, therefore, if you don’t remain connected with the structure, the subliminal message is recidivism.

      Anger is central there because it is fuelled mostly by the prospective vice of trying to minimize the vertical dimension, confusing love with respite.
      But, underneath, the awareness, that the key to that proposed way of life will never be in your hands, remains.

      This angers those who, like me, have “only visited” that place, the feeling that the keys of those lives in the hands of the community, for a sense of gratitude/affiliation, will hardly be asked back, fearing to lose their support and fall back into the addiction, albeit, paradoxically, would mean a first step in asserting one’s independence.

      If you don’t know who you are, what difference does it make if you struggle every day, angry with your neighbours, or if you choose oblivion and collapse with heroin?

      Having placed therapy at the centre of the programme, and not meditation, means having turned upside down the original perspective from which Veeresh was inspired. This reversal was a mistake, without prejudice to Veeresh’s sincere feeling for Osho and his good therapeutic intentions.

      I hope the Dutch friends are correcting the course.

      Meditation and not therapy is the key, it is the only way to go to the root of the mind and understand that you are not the mind, and not even its product such as anger. Possibly you are the one who has to decide what to do with it.

      The community life model provided at Egmond A.Z. can not be exported out of there, unless you create a branch, and it is no longer the time of a hot anger where you can first fight and then befriend someone.
      If you have not discovered something beautiful to celebrate within you, you will not be able to connect with anyone’s heart, you can only hope for a truce.

      The core is Love, the rest is Celebration…now don’t piss me off by trying to contradict me!

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        In the animal world, Veet Francesco (4 february at 8:02 am), it may happen that there are dogs barking at the wrong tree.

        And in the human world it can happen that a man throws his shoe in the wrong direction: just like t h i s…

        Stormy weather – at least in Bavaria.
        How is it at your place?

        Madhu

        • sw. veet (francesco) says:

          Hi Madhu, now that I read you I feel even colder, I am a short-haired dog.

          Are you saying I pissed on the wrong tree?
          Are you sure Levina has already seen the ‘Messiah’ series?

          I’m sure the series will be very long and sooner or later, perhaps after a beer hangover, the writers will think of making the protagonist speak in German, revealing to the world the final solution to make the world work.

      • swamishanti says:

        Yes, Veet, Veeresh was quite a capable guy and a party animal. I have also known people whom he helped to leave their heroin habit behind.

        Fantastic musician too. It’s a shame because some of his older stuff, produced by ‘the Humaniversity Sound’, appears to be no longer commercially available. I like the ‘Time’ album but it is not available on the Humaniversity website.

        Quite a few people, including Veeresh, believed he was enlightened. But I remember now, as mentioned on Sannyasnews many years ago, that Pan (of Buddhahill and Novutopia) had some game where he attempted to meet as many of the sannyasins claiming enlightenment as he had heard of by inviting them to his commune.’ He produced paintings of all of the sannyasins invited to his commune in Germany; most of them turned down the invitation.

        Veeresh did go along. Pan said that Veeresh “had transcended the mind, but still had limitation.”

        Samarpan, another one from Papaji, was another one Pan regarded as unenlightened.

        The whole project was produced by Pan as an e-book, ‘Pan’s Enquiry, Vols. 1 & 2.’ and ‘Letters From Hell, Messages From Heaven’. Quite an interesting read.

      • frank says:

        Veet,
        You are right that community-based solutions to cure addiction problems often lead, as in the case of Humaniversity, to the ex-addicts being addicted to/dependent on the group and thus fear leaving it, as they feel they would relapse.

        Actually, AA and NA have the same problems. People go to the meetings, they get support but they spend years, decades in a situation where their whole inner lives revolve around how they constantly battle their addiction.

        In this, the unfortunate twist is that `supporting` an ex-addict also means he never gets to forget it and really move on.

        The fact is that most people who attempt to get clean cross-addict, which means that they get addicted to something else than their original drug of choice. This refers to substances but of course can mean situations too.

        In the Humaniversity case, as I remember, a few decades ago it would be smack/booze down to cigarettes/dope + lots of attention from the group. It`s an improvement but pretty limited in the long run.

        Nowadays there are so many pharmaceutical aids available that the vast majority of people who `get clean` are, in fact, simply hooked on something legal. Anti-depressants and a whole raft of other pills than can pull you through. It`s an improvement – up to a point, certainly from a social/society viewpoint – but on a subjective level you`re still an addict, being stalked by the inevitable abyss that awaits if/when you stop taking the pills.

        If you`re dependent on something, that, if it`s taken away you will be staring into the same post-addictive nightmare that you were when you started, it`s not a happy internal place to be. I do not personally believe that this kind of space could be conducive for “meditation”. Likewise if you are dependent on a certain closed community for your survival, your `inside` is pretty bordered.

        That`s not sobriety. It`s just being moved to a different prison. Maybe from Dartmoor to an open prison. It`s cushier, but you`re still not free.

          • frank says:

            Toad venom is the new snake oil!!

            • Lokesh says:

              Nobody has croaked yet. A few of my friends have tried it. Heap powerful medicine and definitely not snake oil. Not for the faint-hearted.

              • frank says:

                Using psychedelics to treat addiction has been going on for a while, and as far as I can make out, the ‘success’ rates are always, as with any intervention, hard to quantify.

                Which reminds me. I read Chris Gray`s (Sam of ‘Life of Osho’ fame) ‘The Acid Diaries’ a while back. In that he mentioned, rather interestingly, that his mum underwent LSD therapy at Guy`s Hospital in the late `50s for her alcoholism which had made her suicidal on several occasions. She did quite a number of blindfolded trips in safe environments under supervision. It ended when she tried to slash her wrists one day. In the ensuing chaos she either walked out or was thrown out from the hospital in the middle of the night which, Chris mused, might itself have been a major factor in her final ‘bottoming out’ as, after that she gave up drinking.

                I can`t remember whether he mentioned whether her cure was long-lasting or whether she went on to have more problems

                Amazingly, she apparently wrote a book about her experiences of the treatment. I tried to find it or get a copy by searching online, but to no avail.

                Although there is an obvious physical/chemical component in all this I think that this may touch on an issue in many `cures` of a largely psycho-spiritual nature. What are the actual factors that decide the outcome? Ultimately, bit is very difficult to pinpoint, it being a conglomeration of so many factors

                We can come back to the original topic of anger here. We try shouting and catharting. Sitting quietly. Having a different kind of life, channelling into sex, creativity, meditating, doing therapy, being accepting, being accepted by others etc. etc. but, and in the end, who knows for sure what parts of it `worked`?

                Maybe it was just the intent to do something that did it. Maybe we`re just dreaming it`s improved, that the cure is really aging, or maybe it`s just `divine grace`.

                • Klaus says:

                  @Frank,
                  Your last paragraph corresponds to my starting out with simple (!!) silent sitting meditation. Sitting and walking and suffering “through all the dukha left right and centre”.

                  And then continuing the approach of understanding motivation and emotion, energies, transformation.

              • Klaus says:

                Found this one homepage of a guy who is an intense meditator and also ayahuasca practitioner:

                http://www.thomasriddle.net/ayahuasca/index.html

                He describes some of his ayahausca sessions in – imo – nice and digestible language…

                Has been working with NGOs in Asia as a starter.

  8. Shantam Prem says:

    Anger, hate, rage are small parts of one big theme: will to power.
    Those who achieve state of power through hooks and crooks, through meditation and prayer, start preaching love and oneness, they look quite serene too.

    Anger, hate, rage are important in the scheme of evolution, they turn the chips of power from one hand to another.

    In the context of Sannyas, occupiers of Osho property in Pune don’t need to show anger, they have got cooked cake for them.

    I surely feel angry because I also want to run the joint property. The lukewarm Swamis want only bliss, peace and other states synonymous of cat!

    Anger is the diesel and petrol of life.

    • satyadeva says:

      “Anger is the diesel and petrol of life.”

      Very likely of much of your life, it would seem, Shantam. That’s why you’re unhappy much of the time.

      But you’ve ‘made your bed’ and now you have to lie in it, I guess.

      What have you gained from all those years of Sannyas if you’ve ended up permanently angry?

      • Shantam Prem says:

        One important lesson from Sannyas is never be part of fashionable opinions but go beyond them.

        This is in a way called ‘walk your own walk’. Sannyas crowd of Bhagwan people is too snobbish for my taste.

  9. satchit says:

    “I only once witnessed Osho being angry, at a darshan on the back porch, when an Italian woman threw a shoe at him. The shoe missed Osho by inches and hit Laxmi on the head.”

    Funny. Did not know the story. Maybe since then shoes were no more allowed at darhan?

    I think compassion is if one understands the reasons of the other.

    The poor woman had no choice, she had to throw the shoe!
    So much buddha-energy and so much energy inside her.
    It needs to be expressed, there was no other way.

    • satyadeva says:

      “The poor woman had no choice, she had to throw the shoe!
      So much buddha-energy and so much energy inside her.
      It needs to be expressed, there was no other way.”

      No need to spiritually over-dramatise this event, Satchit. She probably mistook Osho for her father. Easily done – I did that myself, unconsciously of course (left out the shoe throwing though), which he immediately picked up (my vibe, not a shoe) advising beating and biting a pillow “like a child in a tantrum” whenever I felt angry.

      And just because she threw her shoe doesn’t imply there was no choice, unless she was functioning more as an attention-seeking child than as a responsible adult. Still, I suppose we are taliking about an Italian woman…(lol).

      • satchit says:

        SD, I don’t think she was Italian.
        No Italian woman would throw one of her shoes!
        This is fake news.

        I guess she was a muslim. We all know that throwing shoes is a sign of deep condemnation in Arabian countries.

        • frank says:

          “We all know that throwing shoes is a sign of deep condemnation in Arabian countries.”

          That one always makes me chuckle. Like if you took your shoe off in Europe and lobbed it at someone`s head it wouldn`t be seen as an act of disagreement.

          In England, I am sure they will say “Sorry” and give you your shoe back.

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Aaah, Frank (at 12:58 pm),
            If I only would have known of this ´Eton-School´ way of dealing with people throwing shoes to show their contempt about eight to nine years earlier; that would have been very nice!

            Not too late, however, to absorb such a good counsel and so very British and in the best way British, I´d say.

            Being reminded by the story (told here – and maybe ´fake or not?) but was reminded of an occasion in my very surroundings, facing shoe-throwings (towards my body) when I left for shopping.

            In this case, it has been an italien-German mixed design ‘family-fun’. And sure enough, kids and growing-ups are very creative when mum and dad and uncles and aunts are having neighbourhood-kitchen table talks elsewhere.
            (Too bad – many years ago – I didn´t have British coaching towards such matters but – NOW (?!), who knows (?!)…).

            Thanks,

            Madhu

            P.S:
            Btw, the ‘shoe-thing’ is quite impressive, isn´t it?

            P.P.S:
            If people are denying exit when Brexit is called out like from a ´terminator´, it’s not all lost!

            But many good meetings and communication (as awake as possible) can be looked foreward to….

            Madhu

            MOD:
            Madhu, in the P.P.S., what exactly do you mean here, please?

            MADHU:
            The best I can say, MODs, is that there are many so-called small people in UK and everywhere elsewhere who are able to decide to keep in friendly contact and contribution re each other – even though ´Brexit´ is – as it is said,
            “d o n e”.

            Is that more clear now?

            Madhu

            MOD:
            Very goooddd, Madhu!

            Enough for this afternoon?!

  10. Kavita says:

    Just back from Bombay, my first family reunion in eleven years.

    Lokesh, refreshing to read this article, thank you.

    Speaking about anger, in my experience anger is a natural phenomenon & only intensity would differ in a situation/person to person. Maybe every person has a different level & also deals differently with different persons.

    I tend to lose my cool rarely, but when I do I prefer to confront the situation/person then & there. But then in a fit of anger, if I use abusive language I do apologise.

    Only when anger is not addressed immediately I have experienced uneasiness. So I prefer an instant release=, which now has mostly saved me the uneasiness!

    It is not difficult to imagine a better world. Yet, this is the only world we have right now. How to keep our spirit pure in such a sometimes violent, troubling and confusing world?

    If there is population control in poor countries & free food, clothing, shelter & basic education in all countries, maybe a lot of violence can be avoided. That is what I observed in the movie ‘Messiah’. Of course it’s easier to say than be done!

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Kavita, as a former Catholic, behind such a project (‘Messiah’) I find the propaganda operation, if any, and it is not accidental, disgusting.

      I am referring to the subtle work on collective consciousness in feeding the instance of a Saviour who solves the problems of the world (ok, part of it, but Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists etc. maybe are not so influential in today’s geopolitics).

      Perhaps you are the daughter of the Indian cotton bourgeoisie who worked for the English and you do not feel offended as could those who felt excluded by a universal message that from the Middle East speaks to the 3 monotheistic religions.

      No, Sweet One, there is no saviour, we must go back to meet each other and fight for our rights….

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhJ0q7X3DLM

      • Kavita says:

        VF, I am refering to the follower Jibril, who became a suicide bomber in the movie ‘ Messiah’.

        Maybe that movie is propaganda as you say but the suicide bombers in Bombay 26/11 is a true incident which I/many saw live on tv.

        Btw, my paternal side ancestors were into music and later lawyers, my grandparents were cousins and migrated from the North to Bombay, & the paternal side of my maternal side were Hindu refugees from Iran and had a medical background; maternal side of my maternal side werelandlords in South India and also migrated to Bombay. So none were ”Indian cotton bourgeoisie” if I may say so.

        I didn’t say there was a saviour, you seem to imagine a lot, or maybe in this case put words in my mouth.

        Nice song though!

  11. Kavita says:

    “How to keep our spirit pure in such a sometimes violent, troubling and confusing world?”

    After some real serious thought, I think purity in itself is fiction, in fact I’m now wondering if all words are!

  12. Shantam Prem says:

    One small cut and bulls become oxen.
    Bulls can get agitated to see the red scarf, but not the oxen.
    Few such oxen can even imagine to be enlightened!

    Anger management is a must in individuals and societies yet its creative and constructive use becomes vehicle of change.

    As I see the present Sannyas it is a shrinking group of castrated minds, surely more peaceful than ordinary folks.

    Anyway, all kinds of people become peaceful after 50-plus.

    • Kavita says:

      ”One small cut and bulls become oxen.”
      Says the oxen whose balls grew after leaving the cattle shed!

  13. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    What I have learned in about 30 years of militancy in the fantastic world of Osho is that judging is the activity of the lazy ones; it is not useful and it delays the only thing that can change the situation: taking a position with the relative responsibility.

    Once I understand what my centre is (ontological choice: who/how/why I want to be) and built around the living space in which it can express itself (social choice: with whom?), Anger, for me, like all other experiences, should be considered according to this two-dimensional existential perspective.

    For this reason, receiving a slap can make me turn the other cheek or annihilate the opponent; to each the responsibility of understanding when a battle won or lost in the social periphery can make us disconnect with the vertical dimension.

    For this reason, in a violent social horizontal periphery, the moralism of those who have known the vertical dimension is a form of laziness; much wiser would be to create a place where Sangha can gather, to offer the only alternative where you can slap the right cheeks and have fun.

  14. Bharti says:

    Sannyasins are dropping like flies, and rarely they reach past their seventies.

    Maybe, just maybe, the strict vegetarian diet is weakening your body.

    Meanwhile, Keith Richards is going strong at age 76, Willie Nelson is 86. They did more boozing and more smoking and more drugs than most people.

    Lots of non-vegetarians are living into their 80s and 90s.

    Anyway, in about 10-20 year’s time, most sannyasins who met Osho will be off this planet.

    Hopefully, Amrito and Jayesh too.

    Hopefully, a new golden age of Osho will begin, when all the people who made a career of “I was close to Osho so I need to charge you money for my wisdom” disappear.

    Maybe Osho’s message will be set free when people who had an ego-trip about meeting Osho are gone.

    We can hope.

    Enjoy:

    https://www.oshonews.com/2019/12/30/prem-tarpana/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/01/06/yoga-christopher-bowers/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/01/25/anand-tathagat/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/01/27/devageet/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/01/28/ma-pankaj/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/01/29/deva-nirvesha/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/01/29/advaita/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/01/30/ma-shashi/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/02/01/satgyano/

    https://www.oshonews.com/2020/02/04/murari/

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Bharti, lazy man!
      On the deathbed, an alternative to celebration is to start judging youthful mistakes; from there aiming for heaven with a conversion is a short step, it is a classic.

      “The seventh said, “Thou shalt not kill if you want to be worthy of heaven.”
      Look at it today, this law of God, three times nailed to the cross.
      Look at the end of that Nazarene and a thief doesn’t die any less.”

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og0xFfS3l8Y

      https://lyricstranslate.com/en/il-testamento-di-tito-titos-last-will.html

      • anand yogi says:

        Perfectly correct, Bharti!

        Certainly, we must hope that there will be a golden age with Osho`s vision safely in the hands of Arun, Brian, Modi, Swami Bhorat and their lineages when we can certainly expect a 1000-year yuga of superconsciosness!

        Like you, Bharti, I also pray vehemently and religiously for the day when these egoists, oxygen-thieves, coffin-dodgers, space-wasters, carbon-squanderers and senile-citizen baboons finally, and thanks God, end their utterly irritating, pointless and futile trip on this planet!

        It will be a cause for celebration and I am sure that one with a level of consciousness such as yours will have the happiest day of his life, following Osho`s diktat and celebrating wholeheartedly their deaths!

        It is certainly a disgrace that boozers like Willie Nelson, Keith Richards, Amrito and Jayesh are still here!

        I can utterly understand your righteous anger, dear Bharti, at the sheer effrontery of these depraved souls in having the gall to keep on getting out of bed every day! And then compounding the hurt by tucking into a full English breakfast with extra slices of bacon every morning whilst proper, real sannyasins such as yourself have no fun at all other than wanking over the obituary section of Oshonews!
        It is certainly Kali Yuga!

        Certainly, we can hope that a final solution will come when these useless flies will be swatted out of existence by the great fly-swatter of karma and us righteous ones can all breathe a sigh of relief!

        Yahoo!
        Hari Om!

    • swamishanti says:

      Bharti, it is just the time of year.

      Many people always drop off in winter. It is the season of death and death always make space for new beginnings.

    • Klaus says:

      Having read the obituary for Murari Jan Duclos, I have learned that he has a young wife and young son.

      There is a possibility to send a small support for the costs of the burial in France via:

      https://www.leetchi.com/c/pour-jan-laxmi-et-solal

      I sent my best wishes to Laxmi and Solal.
      May they have peace of mind and heart.

  15. Klaus says:

    Hi,

    This article actually got me looking back on my whole life:

    In my life, I wasn’t looking so much at the anger and aggression “in this world”.
    Rather, I feel that I had to look inside myself, i.e. the need to “clean out” in order to be able to see clearly “what is going on inside”.

    Up to the age of 18 I had been functioning according to the outer requirements: school and sports were the priorities set by my parents. My personal interests were relaxing with friends, going to the local youth centre and music.

    In the middle of January this year, 2020, my favourite aunt (my father’s sister) died at the age of 90. She was one of the persons who’d known me since childhood. I was quite close to her and we talked a lot quite freely about family, relationships, religion, freedom, expressing oneself etc.

    She once told me about my upbringing:
    “They (my parents) did not allow you anything.”
    That really sums up my life up to the age of 17/18 when, for the first time, I expressed a wish of my own towards my father, telling him that I was going to stop playing football at our club and instead I would switch to the handball team…

    Interestingly, after finishing high school they did not forbid me to go to India! So, there I went.
    It was in India that I realized for the first time that I could express anger and aversion to someone directly and in an unhindered way; when I could tell off the rickshaw wallahs like, “Chalo. I do not need a rickshaw right now. Chalo!”
    I felt my chest lifting and my spine straightening.

    After my initiation into meditation in the Kathmandu Sannyas Centre, however, I did not go to Poona for an already booked encounter group, but instead went into Buddhist meditation in the form of intensive Vipassana for almost one year with little interruption. I experienced a lot of inner conflict and pain, but with the help of the teachers I managed to pass through it.

    I can remember a lot of anger and aggression against myself for my feelings of being “incapable, deficient” in this meditation phase.

    The most helpful phrase the teachers told me was:
    “We think that you are suffering from some self-indulgence. Please try again in this or that way”.

    When I returned to the West, slowly I came back into the daily tasks again: Should I study? Should I work? What am I going to do?

    Very intense dreams of fire, bombs, shootings, war and sweating profusely during sleep accompanied me for years.

    I was in a relationship for almost 17 years with a sannyasin.
    In the end, I found that I did not express myself truly: I found myself buying apartments, houses, cars, new and antique furniture, shopping without end – and finally asked myself “What the hell am I doing here?”
    This relationship ended with “throwing pots and pans and insults” at one another.

    In the meantime, I always tried to keep up meditation and self-discovery: going on retreats, taking therapy, healing sessions, satsang etc. There were a lot of rather extreme ups and downs…

    Once, in a meeting with my new teacher, I kept on expressing my dissatisfaction with everything: I was complaining non-stop for almost one hour! He was just listening, not interrupting me once. Afterwards, I did not remember one single word I had been saying.

    Nowadays, my approach to expressing anger is similar to what Kavita has described:
    I express anger or aversion or dissatisfaction right “then and there” in the situation that is creating it in me. Not carrying it around and feeling uneasy.
    I feel lucky that with my Bangladeshi wife I can act in this way: not carrying anger in the heart, thus not making it heavy and difficult. Express it – and it is gone.

    There is no retribution, like there would have been from my parents in childhood: heavy punishment via shouting and beatings, denial of food and drink, being jailed in my room early and for the whole night.

    Today, deep in my belly I feel like an “embryo, floating in oneness”, sucking my thumbs, feeling protected, supported and at ease in the world.

    A Cat Stevens song comes to my mind:

    “I know we have come a long way,
    we’re changing day to day.
    But tell me: Where do the children play?”

    Aggression in the world saddens me quite often:
    Seeing the life of the people in Bangladesh, rickshaw wallahs being beaten by the police with a “lati” (thick wooden stick) just for not getting out of the way quickly enough; the bland corruption and stupidity of politicians (see elections for the Dhaka city councils last week) who are so much influencing people’s living conditions…Overpopulation, garbage in the rivers everywhere, filth and dirt, insensitivity….

    What can we do?

    Big ‘Thanks’ @Lokesh for the inspiration.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Thanks, Klaus.

      You are not alone, the problem is that even if many of us are worried like you, but no longer used to meeting, sharing and embracing each other, we have lost contact with the vision of the things to do, and this increases the sense of helplessness.

      Today the global economic system, apart from rare exceptions, is dominated by autopilot, I would say the faith that the private system is always more efficient and effective than the public one.

      If the role of the State in a democracy is no longer to pursue the interests of the community but of the plutocrats on duty, then it means that politics is only a theatre to hide the true (economic) power relations. Politicians are an expression of these relations of strength, and the common citizens, despite being the vast majority, are easily kept with their heads and gaze downcast, and technology doesn’t help us, or helps THEM more than US.

      In Osho’s time we could not know, perhaps more in Europe than in the USA, that social conquests, initiatives for well-being and safety were largely due to the ongoing Cold War, and that indecision on this side of the wall about the outcome of that ideological conflict produced policies in favour of the demands of the working class, but only to subtract or weaken the consensus of the intrinsically socialist left parties, moral custodians of the 1917 revolution.

      Today I believe that Osho’s analysis would take into account the changed situation, inviting rebellious individuals to structure themselves into a revolutionary subject, trusting that politics is part of the world as Rajneeshpuram was, and any Centre of Osho scattered around the world continues to be subjected to the same risks and “laws” of a widespread dystopian entity.

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        P.S:
        Is it possible that I am the only one to see the relationship between the outcome of the Cold War and the export to the world of the barbaric North American social model: “Only the strongest survive”?

        And could this violent approach, in turn, have to do with the global volume of expressed anger or with the unexpressed and poisonous one of depression?

        • Klaus says:

          Thanks, Veet Francesco, too.

          In my opinion, yours is a valid analysis of the currently prevailing organisational system:
          “The fittest will survive.”

          Generally speaking, I have the impression that a lot of people are more happy “kicking the lower person” than feeling sympathy with anyone.

          When in Bangladesh, I am clearly “not alone”.
          However, we are more than 7 billion bodies plus all the non-bodies…still counting….

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Big ´Thanks´ @ you, Klaus, for the sharing (9:17am).

      Madhu

    • Lokesh says:

      Cool, Klaus. Interesting read from you.

    • Kavita says:

      Klaus, all this while I thought you were a German. Thank you for shaing your background story, it’s always interesting to read/listen about co-writers, it kind of shows where we come from and that helps to relate/emphathise.

      Btw, how did you get this name ‘Klaus’? (If it’s ok to share).

      • Kavita says:

        Klaus, sorry, I thought you too are a Bangladeshi until I read your 5 February, 2020 at 11:59 am post!

      • Klaus says:

        I am German. Again.

        My wife is from Bangladesh….

        • Klaus says:

          I guess Shantam created ‘Swami Klaus Bangla’…

          I would have liked the name Klaus R. Khan = K R K (Khan are my Bangla relations…)…Am I joking…ha.

  16. Shantam Prem says:

    Swami Klaus Bangla,
    Thanks for the honest prose.

    I am in my last phase of India visit because of a lady friend.
    First time a woman from homeland in my life, it feels like being a man.

    Women from South-East Asia are really docile, they don’t give much chance to men to feel angry as long as ATM card operates uninterrupted!

    There is one another lady in my life, my 80 years mother, her brain power is fully updated.

    Aquarius Ma, Pisces son, there was no other way but to run away to protect my own values. Her domination is so much I can’t wash clothes in the machine, she will do, because without rubbing with hands, clothes don’t shine: how machine can find out where is more dirt?!

    Sometimes anger arises because of confrontational nature; as it is said, metal pots in the kitchen when meeting make noise.

    But this is their durability too, crockery simply breaks when elephant Sheela or Elephant Jayesh gets too much say in Bhagwan China Shop!

    If we don’t know the art of conflict management, then every meditation is self-indulgence!

    Sannyas movement was created by the people who were not happy with their parents, who were born during wartimes.

    Indian gurus gave to this generation the dream of sugar daddies and healed world. It worked like a dose of tranquilliser.

    While writing this, I am remembering a sentence, roughly it means: I was running whole life far away from my parents, in the end I realise we can’t run away from our roots.

    India is very soft, very relaxing, very easy for my pocket, yet it inspires me not, so I won’t uproot myself from the West, yet a vision is fuelling in me to create a small place in India where guests from the West feel at home.

    I think Osho people need big space to spread.

    • Klaus says:

      Heartfelt response of yours, thanks!

      I feel it is good of you that you have consideration of the differing generational backgrounds; these are a huge influence on the people, for instance like my parents born in 1935 and 1939: a childhood spent in – not only – wartime Germany.

      Life in Bangladesh is immensely hard; I can tell you that these people have got some extra resilience beyond my grasp.

      At the same time there is an exceptional sensitivity and calmness and inner strength.

      There is no cuddliness in the daily life, there: rather more ‘calls for being awake and alert’ and ‘standing your ground’.

      Same in the personal: the ‘sword of wisdom’ is not cutting softly…but ‘to the bone’.

      Gotta keep on keeping on….

  17. Lokesh says:

    Shantam says, “Indian gurus gave to this generation the dream of sugar daddies and healed world. It worked like a dose of tranquilliser.”

    Although there is an element of truth in this statement it is the product of a cynical perspective. Anyone who spent real time around Osho will tell that it was nothing at all like being tranquillized. Quite the opposite in fact.

    My conclusion is that Shantam stood hovering at the gate, sadly lacking the guts or gumption to enter it. He really has no idea what he is talking about.

    • Shantam Prem says:

      Lokesh, when a spiritual movement gets bust within a generation time, feeling cynicism is simply human.
      Ignoring the effect of blunders is not acceptance in the spiritual sense.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Seconded, Lokesh at 11:32 am – especially your last remark/sentence!

      Otherwise I´ve been following the exchanges between two quite differnt male contributors; both of them – Klaus and Shantam as well – crossing their cultural borderlines, got married, had a child, having to deal more thoroughly, as maybe others here in their life-stories, with collectice unconscious heritages.

      And saw that Shanram Prem has been misled, imagining talking to somebody likewise-´hearted´ (?), looking for some other-body (male) to join his meanwhile political agenda.

      In the very random, mentally diffused area re the actual and particular topicm, more a darkening and sad, sad story.

      Madhu

      • Klaus says:

        ”looking for some other-body (male)…political agenda….”

        I think this is over-interpreted.

        How in this long distance virtual space could we start exchanging something personal, if not by offering and sharing some detail/s of our (outer and inner) life?

        And not get into super meta-theoretical and intellectual levels?

        As Peter Tosh says, “kove, wisdom and overstanding” are great helpers in overcoming some obstacles.

        I do not claim to have all of these; I am only trying….

  18. Shantam Prem says:

    To raise fingers on neo-Sannyas leadership is not cynicism nor aggression or anger…exposing lies is a spiritual work.

    Osho built his career of masterhood by puncturing lies and deceit of others.

    Any Master and followers must not get any undeserving immunity, neither here on this Earth nor other world, if it exists.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Why not wash your (raised) fingers and put them down this way, Shantam Prem; that would be quite a spiritual work of necessity!

  19. swami anand anubodh says:

    I’ve just been reading Bharti’s thoughtful and heartfelt post dated 4th Feb @7:06am.

    Unfortunately, in his haste to reveal the depth of his bitterness and resentment of those he clearly has issues with, he has fallen victim to what is known as a ‘Bayesian fallacy’.

    Something which is an occupational hazard for the shallow-minded.

    He writes: “Sannyasins are dropping like flies, and rarely they reach past their seventies.”

    That is ‘perfectly correct’, the average age of Western sannyasins in the obituaries is about 70, when the lifespan for Westerners as a whole is close to 80. Wow! that’s spooky.

    From that observation he then make some incredibly silly comparisons, which I don’t believe he takes seriously, as nobody can be that stupid (even though reading his post he tries to convince you that he is).

    Divide sannyasins into three: A small group destined to die before their time, a larger group that will die roughly when expected (around 80), and another small group that will live longer than average.

    The deaths in the obituaries seen now are from the group ‘before their time’, the fallacy is fixating on the fact that they ‘rarely pass seventy’ as though that reflects on the whole – forgetting that as the years pass the obituaries will change and fill with older sannyasins from the other groups. Totally negating ‘rarely pass seventy’.

    He also reminds us that: “In 10-20 years’ time, most sannyasins who met Osho will be off this planet”, mentioning – Amrito and Jayesh – to flaunt his anti-Resort credentials.

    Bharti, you need to take into account the other things that will also happen in the near future, like the availability of life-extending technologies for those who have the necessary financial resources. No more cancer, no more alzheimer’s, no more organ failures, a disease-free body able to regenerate indefinitely.

    And when you do that, it may be ‘you’ who is off this planet before A &J.

    • swamishanti says:

      Both Amrito and Jayesh seem to have fate on their side in the longevity stakes.

      Whilst Amrito survived being regularly poisoned in his food over the period of a year by Sheela and her gang at the Ranch, and that too with no apparent long-term damage, he also had the good fortune to survive an injection of pure adrenaline in his buttocks, which caused him to cough up blood and almost killed him.

      He’s getting on now, but, unsually for a doctor, is also still a smoker.

      Jayesh, on the other hand, survived an armed assault from a Pakistani terrorist squad who invaded his hotel in Bombay with AK47s. Several people were shot dead there. Jayesh hid in his bathtub and survived.

      That group also shot dead several people in a popular tourist hangout in Colaba, as well shooting dead and injuring many people in Bombay’s Victorias Train Station.

      Jayesh has a lot of money. With loads of cash anything’s possible .

      Even if their bodies are ready to give up, their brain stems could still be preserved in jars in the Praesidium, ready to still give instructions to the remaining members of the IC. Who knows? This is the 21st century, man.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Hi Anand Anubodh,

      It is said – as a metapher and also otherwise – that if you want to take a poisonous thorn out of the flesh (and otherwise) you need to use another thorn to remove it.

      You did that yesterday (at 1:52 pm) re Bharti´s elaboration, using some of the insights of the Age of Enlightement in the 18th century using Baye´ theorem and the whole discussion of that time of mathematics, statistics, philosophers and whatnot.

      People – whose intellectual and philosophical insights are in need to be updated, one can say – being nowadays confronted with all the stuff of an upcoming Digital Age.

      I´ve been wondering though, if that kind of removal ´thorn´ will work, when I felt to read such an amount of clear Hate exposed coming from Barthi´s keyboard.

      Wishing that your operational input will work though – but who knows!?

      Thank you for posting, Anand Anubodh.

      Madhu

      P.S:
      You know, Facebook Founder Marc Zuckerberg gave millions of Dollars to the Bavarian Technical University (TUM) to implant an Institute of Ethics re the so-called Social-Networks-Enterprise gigantic movements.

      Me – as an elderly woman – have my doubts if IT-programmers and statistics and mathematics (being in a philosophical discussion) will manage to make ´Ethics´ again a shiny word of Essence of a Human Heart.

      But- who knows?

      Trying my best to digest all information given as a woman, experiencing at the same time that the very Female has not a “good rap” in these times as maybe Bob, one of our (unfortuanately rare) contributors would put it..?

      A renewed ´Age of Enlightement seemingly needed, I´d say. Not so rational (?) as the old one, centuries ago.