Remembering Past Lives

Frank reflects on this controversial topic.

There has been some talk about past lives on SN of late. I believe this was triggered by some other online stories about Osho recognising his “past-life mother” back in the day.

That particular story seemed to have quite more graspable present-life significances, as the woman in question was married to a guy who was financing Osho at the time and bought him, amongst other things, his first car.

Wasn`t the past-life story just some kind of kudos or reward for services rendered?  That would be a less esoteric explanation.
When push comes to shove, how many people really believe in past-lives in this kind of literal sense, where one has a kind of psychically traceable yet literal CV of IDs stretching back through history?
 I get the feeling these days, it being so commonplace, that publicising past-lives as a literal  reality and necessary belief/doctrine on the path has the effect of encouraging ludicrous narcissism.
Take, for example, the following conversation between a man and a woman which I recorded verbatim in my notebook shortly after overhearing it in a New-Age shop  last year:
M.  I was a Mongolian warlord in one of my last lives. I`ve been a Sikh, a Sultan in Pakistan or somewhere, a medieval archer at the battle of Agincourt and I even met Buddha once but I didn`t learn to meditate because I was a Christian at the time….
F.  Well, some of my oldest ones have been in Rome, where I had to help Cleopatra put her make-up on and I also helped build the Pyramids, but I wasn`t a slave, I was a devotee.
M. Wow. That must have been hard work.
F.  Yeah, she wore a lot of make-up.  But my soul likes a challenge. It`s a karmic thing. I was a charioteer in Arjuna`s  chariot division during the Bhagavad Gita, that was pretty wild. too.
M.  Yeah, I can tell that from your energy. I have always been able to see entities, too. You know,  the kind of entities that latch onto people and hang around in their auras.  Well, not always. It started when I was at school:There was this kid who was a right bully, one day he punched me right in the third eye – that was when I started to see entities. He had a few quite evil and nasty entites leeched onto his aura. Out of compassion I tried to rid him of the entities. I suppose that`s when I first knew I had the gift. It was an awakening to the fact that I was a healer. I managed to remove a couple of the entities from his energy -I channelled them up through a vortex and sent them out into the cosmos. There were a  few left attached to him  that I couldn`t get rid of
F.   Well, I suppose that was down to his karma, he was probably a Nazi in his last life. He would have to take responsibility for his own stuff, though, he couldn`t rely on the compassion of light-workers to bale him out for everything, he would have to face his own karma and walk on his own path
M.   Yeah, selfless compassion and unconditional love  only goes so far and I`ve got my own path to walk on and my own karma to deal with.
F. That`s so true.  It’s incredible the things we have to do on the journey – I mean that`s what it is  – a journey. I mean, I was at Baba`s talk this morning and he said: “Everything happens in the end. Which is really true if you stop and think about it, but not many do.
M.  No, they don`t.
F.   No, they`re too busy being unconscious and buying into all the bullshit that keeps the masses  stuck in the  maya which is like the Matrix isn`t it?
M.  Yeah. I`m working hard so as I don`t have to get born again. It`s just too messy dealing with people`s energies and stuff. What a mess!
F. Me too. I`ve doubled the time I spend meditating and doing asanas  lately just because of that. Sometimes I feel there`s nothing left for me on this planet except enlightenment
M. Me neither. This time, it`s gonna happen. I can just feel it in my chakras.”
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120 Responses to Remembering Past Lives

  1. shantam prem says:

    Good creative dialogues, spiritual stand-up comedy worthy to be played in Oshoji or Mooji or similar establishments.

    • bob says:

      Siggy sez…

      I covered all this stuff decades ago…jeez, it’s actually been more than a century…
      Dreams, dreams, dreams…the subconscious…remember!? Stories being played out in your mind, beyond your control….

      Man, it’s tough to get some due respect these days…Oi vey!!

      • frank says:

        He took it all too far
        But, boy, could he smoke cigars
        Jiving us we were voodoo,
        Making love with his ego,
        Siggy coked up into his mind
        Came on so loaded man
        Well hung with snow-white tan
        When the cigs killed the man
        Jung had to break up the band

        Siggy smoked cigars.

        (From ‘The Rise and Fall of Siggy Cigardust’)

  2. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    You´ll get my first Sunday-smile of this Sunday-morning, Frank, reading your notebook-notes about remembering overhearing this fabulous chat in some New Age shop (in London…but could be elsewhere too..).

    However, you have to share that smile with Satyadeva, who published it and maybe also with other smiles coming in further ahead (you won´t mind, I guess).

    Have had breakfast already, have been listening to the stormy winds outside here, will now take a shower to – (in particular) wash y hair&head, and feel that beautiful smile can´t be washed away…Coming from deep inside!

    Can you see it, Frank?

    Thanks,

    Madhu

  3. Kavita says:

    Frank, very interesing sharing, thank you.

    In Hindi there’s a saying, “Whenever one wakes up it’s morning!”

    The oldest dream that I had and that too repeadedly around eleven years of age, was of a humongous lizard running after me, I would wake up terrified. At that time I didn’t know about dinosaurs. In my Psychology class I learned that some intense dreams do have a co-relation to our real life, which I thought was my fear for lizards!

    During S.N. Goenka’s Vipassana I realszed that could be my past life revelation through a dream!

    In November of 2010 I had a revelation while writing here on SN, but frankly I do think it’s all a game for survival, even this, simply writing!

    ”I don`t have to get born again. It`s just too messy dealing with people`s energies and stuff. What a mess! This I can relate to totally & would add that those people include me too!

  4. Levina says:

    There you go, Frank, a conversation between two spiritual identities in yourself, that’s very much like Voice-Dialogue! It becomes very funny when we let them speak for themselves, doesn’t it?

    Greetings from: “teacher knows best” and a whole string of other voices
    I won’t mention yet, but if you are really interested you can suscribe for a course at:
    Bleak House,
    Department of Voices,
    c/o Miss Jean Brodiewillfixit,
    69, Wedon’tspeakaboutthesethings Avenue,
    Willesden Green

    • satyadeva says:

      “There you go, Frank, a conversation between two spiritual identities in yourself…”

      But these two characters are more or less similar, Levina, ie more like one voice than two!

      • Levina says:

        Yes, Satyadeva, true; I, the doubter, was hairsplitting about it: “Shall I use 1 or 2, 2 or 1, 1 or 2…?” It was agonising, then the decisive voice said 2, and 2 it became….

        • frank says:

          Levina and SD,
          Voice Dialogue is an interesting thing, but this conversation actually happened.
          The people were in the 50s,I would say. The woman had long straight blond hair, goddess clothes, long skirt etc. and a droney-type voice while the bloke had a beard and wore one of those thick rainbow jumpers, a Manali-hat on what I suspect was a bald head and had a faint Brummie* accent.

          I must admit that when the guy started on the story about being punched in the third eye, I almost lost it, but I just about managed to bite my lip, supress my laugh and carry on pretending to browse the nearby bookshelf.

          I don`t know who the “Baba” mentioned was, but I noticed the woman was wearing the three strand Tulsi beads around her neck that Bhakti and Krishna people have, so I guess something to do with that.

          Tbh, I suspect that to be having that kind of dialogue going on in the unconscious could well be beyond the remit of Voice Dialogue. A more suitable therapy would probably be lobotomy or trepanning, I would guess.

          *Brummie – from Birmingham

          • Shantam prem says:

            Frank, your dialogue is as true as first-timers writing erotic story in first person account.

            Creative act of fiction must not be sold as true story, otherwise it becomes Sannyas history!

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Dear Miss Jean Brodiewillfixit, Whispering from 69, Wedon´tspeakablutthesethings Avenue;
      There may be a need for you and your whole string of associated voices to change address, go for a retreat yourself and investigate (quite contemporarily) anew the Issue: “Teacher knows best” in your congregation.

      I can assure you that the creatures whose chatting in a British New Age bookstore has been overheard by Frank are happening elsewhere too (unfortunately I´d say) and are not an invention of a troubled mind of a narrator.

      And I can assure you too that such incidents are creating much harm instead of the opposite (which – the latter – they are claiming to facilitate).

      Yours sincerely,

      Madhu

      • frank says:

        Madhu,
        I`m not sure if these people are causing harm in a very great way. That kind of stuff they come away with strikes me as a confused delusory distraction, for sure, but one does not have to go very far to see worse harm being done at any given moment in this world.

        On the plus side, they caused me quite a bit of amusement. And I`ve raised a few chuckles relating the story to friends. Every cloud has a silver lining. Hi ho!

        Therapeutically speaking, they may also have helped me to ‘remember my past life’ when I may have said something similar. Although to be fair to myself I cannot remember a time when I believed that a punch in the face would be an initiation into psychic powers. In any case, I do find my younger self quite a source of giggles at times. Don`t you?

        Levina,
        What do you think Miss Jean Brodiewillfixit would have said, if she had, for some reason, encountered the two newagers in the vignette in the course of her travels?

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Well yes, Frank,
          I would have some stories to tell about encountering some of those into the channelling business; these are neither playful nor lighthearted – some quite old ones throughout the different phases in the Sannyas Sangha, some dealing with my PTSD follow-ups….

          I respond in particular about the very last lines of your contribution (at 5:31 pm) as you seemed to have caught a drift when reading me. And thank you for that.

          There is a lot – and nothing – to say:
          The topic itself is a good one and these last days it’s working in me, what I may have to say from my own life experience re the topic. Still has to wait a bit as the stormy (inner) winds have not calmed down to settle.

          So, I´m sitting in it, so to say.

          Madhu

          • frank says:

            Madhu,
            You are right that there are plenty into channelling who aren`t playful or lighthearted. They are the ones best both to avoid and/or to have a laugh about!

            All of which reminds me:
            Quite a while back, I was hanging out with a channelling scene for a while. I was a bit of an outsider, but the channel`s girlfriend took a shine to me after some channelled entity apparently proclaimed that I was a`powerful energy channel” – whatever that is. I couldn`t stand her, a real power-tripper (still at it, I hear).

            Nevertheless, she invited herself round to my place and spun me a yarn about how that morning she had had a past-life vision of how we had been in the same Native American tribe together. According to her, in this tribe it was the tradition for the braves and the squaws to have sex on the eve of battle in their tepee. Little Bighorn, I think it was. The characters in the past-life flash were, of course, earlier incarnations of her and me.

            She tried to manoeuvre me onto the bed but I found her quite repulsive. There was to be no Bighorn that day, I assured her, and luckily I was the brave rather than the squaw in this life too.

            After that incident my status as a “powerful energy channel” with the group mysteriously plummeted as people suddenly realised that I in fact had a lot of “dark energy” around me, and was “sexually repressed”, to boot.
            I left town soon after.

        • Levina says:

          Ok, Frank, let’s play…

          All these thoughts/characters You overheard in the bookshop, they are all characters in You, as You via the brain apparently latched on to them, and still after so many years made a story out of it. So these thoughts/characters apparently made a big impression on You. You are fascinated by them, as You are fascinated by Anand Yogi and Bhorat, as many other thoughts/characters that come out of Your sleeve, and You have a way of bringing these characters to live, to make us laugh, which is great.

          To read somebody else’s story, or see a good movie is a sure way to get away from our own story, which usually isn’t so great.

          So you see, dear Frank, I’m getting slowly to the point and that is: I want you to write a story of a day in your life when you weren’t so happy with yourself. With full display and description of all your I’s/voices that appear in it, as honestly as possible, and bring it to class tomorrow.

          Sincerely yours,

          Miss Jean Brodie

          • frank says:

            Miss Brodie,
            You`re right. I`m just a sad clown sitting in my wheelchair paralysed from the waist down reflecting on a life of utter failure spent mostly hanging around with mentally disturbed new-agers, babbling Indian gurus and failing to get it on with minging psychics. I can still hear my dad saying “You`re an idiot” and my mum saying ”No one could love you”. My old headmaster chimes in too: “You will never amount to anything, lad. Now bend over.”

            As I sit in my squalid bedsit watching the remains of my breakfast sliding down the walls along with the peeling wallpaper, nothing to look forward to but the next round of pills, mostly anti-depressants, my only relief is lashing out at my carers while they change my underwear and writing daft posts on Sannyasnews.

            • Levina says:

              Excellent, excellent, Frank, that’s a ten with a stick as they say here in Scotland.

              I can almost taste and see your hopelessly depressive and sad state, paralysed from the waist down, oh my, oh my…I feel utter compassion towards you, my dear. I always feel so much love for the more vulnerable inclined in this world. You see, I can only feel my own vulnerability through people like you.

              I cannot allow it in myself, oh no, God forbid I always have to be in control, it bears no thinking what would happen if I would lose it, quite scary really. I’ve always been like that, mind you, since I was a teacher, always taught my girls to be prim and proper like me; no, I would’nt allow anything incorrect or soft.

              But now I’m beginning to see that perhaps it isn’t right, that I’ve hurt people trying to mould them like me, there was even a girl who comitted suicide when I was her teacher and I now feel terribly responsible for that, she killed herself (her vulnerability) ’cause she could not live up to my expectations of perfection. So, dear Frank,I’m slowly realizing now that in me there is also a vulnerable, hurt child, it’s not easy to admit, but it is the truth, and you have helped me by sharing the atrocities of your painful, painful life. Thank you.

              P.S:
              When I read your account of your devastating, awful life I had to laugh in a very uncontrolled way. I don’t really understand it and I hope you won’t be offended, but your story was so tragic that it became comical, so maybe there is a clue in that?

              Sincerely,

              Not quite Jean Brodie any longer

  5. Levina says:

    To Madhu (with a wink)

    Dear Miss “I can assure you”, thank you very much for your response wherein you give me much assurance that all my inner voices are a lot of gobblestick. Well, I don’t agree, these voices/thoughts want to be heard and loved, not pushed away or projected unto somebody else, pretending that “the other” is a fool, stupid, arrogant, hostile, afraid, sensitive etc. Which you and me are witness to here on SN. In m.o if people would take responsibility for their “voices”, this wouldn’t happen.

    Voice Dialogue helps me a lot to accept all parts of myself, and in that way it’s much easier to see that they are just voices, and that the me I think I am is just an accumalation of voices, not to be taken seriously.

    Usually we/me only show parts of ourselves that keep us safe, the controller, critic, understander, joker at the expense of others. The vulnerable parts are hidden or projected.

    I’m saying all this, ’cause I had a wish to be more creative here on SN , speaking directly from the voice /part itself, which I had a go at, a bit over the top, but it was great fun to do. But I understand it’s not everybody’s cup of tea, as I see from your response.

    Well; that’s about it, let me see now…there’s definitely an explainer in what I’ve just written, and a wanting to get it right, and a playful child really, hoping Madhu wants to play too….

  6. Lokesh says:

    Ibiza has a lot of new agers running around. Met a guy down at the beach who had come to the island to give a quantum lecture. I think he saw himself as a light worker. Good clean vibe and he spoke very well and what he had to say was interesting enough, I suppose, energy points on the planet etc.

    Later, at home, I said to the missus, “That guy who was telling us all about the energy lines was a good talker, but I really do not think he had anything at all going that I needed.”

    When I listen to people like that young man I feel my part in it. It was people like me who helped bring all that mystical mumbo-jumbo back from India to the West in the late sixties. Aum, meditation, gurus and erm…well…great hashish.

    I really do not believe there is any real harm being done by the New Age movemwnt. Probably a lot of good will come out of it. After all, better getting into mystical concepts than being a football hooligan.

    Since Poonjaji got the Advaita ball rolling it seems that has also become very popular. The ‘Who am I?’ loop. Talked to someone who had recently returned from the Ramana ashram. He said there are tons of fake teachers running around down there but the ashram still has a beautiful vibe.

    Such is the way of the world. Is it true that we are not in the world, but rather the world is in us, and therefore it all comes down to how we see things from our own projection room?

    • frank says:

      Lokesh,
      I can certainly say that if I was asked for career advice by a young man who was trying to decide between life as a new-ager or a football hooligan, I would probably suggest the former.

      That said, I don`t think that the whole scene is without its shadow. You mention the profusion of “fake teachers” in Tiru. Where`s the dividing line between a fake teacher and a genuine con-artist, swindler, grifter or rip-off merchant? No one claims that such are harmless.

      You ask: “Is it true that we are not in the world, but rather the world is in us, and therefore it all comes down to how we see things from our own projection room?”
      It might be, but if I was a fake teacher, I would be on the look-out for people who believed that so as to take advantage of them by pointing out that any idea they might have that I am dodgy is simply something coming from their projection room, and then teaching them to think positive instead!

      • shantam prem says:

        Who is fake teacher?
        The one which is not mine and not of my beloved.
        Who is not a meditator?
        The one who I don´t agree with.
        Why India has spiritual vibes?
        It is not because of ABC but the weather.

        • Lokesh says:

          Shantam, for me a fake teacher is someone who is pretending to teach something that they do not actually know or truly understand. They can even be innocent in the sense that they believe themselves to be something other than what they actually are.

          Fortunately, it is quite simple to spot a fake teacher by applying certain rules of thumb.

          Ultimately, one can learn something even from a fake teacher, like realising how gullible one is etc.

      • Lokesh says:

        Yes, Frank, I agree.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      I don´t share some of your views, Lokesh, neither – how you put it – that we brought “all that mystical mumbo-jumbo from India to the West”, nor the effects – how you put it – that it was Punjaji who got the “Advaita ball rolling…and the “Who am I”? loop.”

      Otherwise I got to know, experientially-wise, Ibiza, The Island, your home base for a long time, so to say. It’s quite a special filter-bubble. Your view, in my eyes, is quite a narrow one sometimes – like this evening.

      Madhu

      • Lokesh says:

        Well, Madhu, if you are representative of the broader view I will stick with the narrow, thank you very much.
        After all, this is a blog where we can share our views, and rather than stating what your views are and why they do not fit with mine you conclude with the following: “Ibiza Is quite a special filter-bubble.”

        For the unenlightened among us, like myself, could you please explain what “a special filter bubble” is and how you came to this conclusion, as in what it is based upon. And, while you are at it, could you please explain what “a narrow evening” is?

        As you can no doubt imagine, due to your broad perspective, I eagerly await your response and am of course excited to be initiated into the mysteries of the “special filter bubble” dimension, which I am, according to you, under the malign influence of. Jee whizz, it all sounds a bit Stephen King.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Hi Lokesh,
          Maybe you like to reread again what I actually wrote yesterday evening?

          If not, nothing can be done about it.

          If it soothes your ruffled feeling about me mentioning Ibiza´s “special filter bubbles”, I can assure you that Bavarian Munich ones are also quite something to experience!

          As for Stephen King´s works (you finally mentioned), concerning King as an author, you won´t find any of them on my bookshelves and I don´t feel attracted to buy them, if you don´t mind.

          That´s all for the moment, Lokesh, after re-reading both of our responses – and I’d like to leave it like that.

          Madhu

          • Lokesh says:

            In other words, you do not wish to reveal what “a special filter bubble” is, Madhu. Is that because your writing is being channelled through “a special filter bubble”?

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Hi MODs,
            As I said it; I want to leave it like that – re that little exchange and that includes your question to me.

            However, if you need further refinements (algorhythm – as also otherwise) why don´t you address our Stephen King expert Lokesh directly to quench your thirst with your question?
            (Also google available or wiki – but that you know much more about than me, don´t you?).

            Madhu

            MOD:
            Madhu, it’s a simple matter, the few words in question weren’t clear, so communicated nothing. They’ve now been altered so we hope they have the meaning you intended.

            • Lokesh says:

              MOD, Madhu’s words make perfect sense, if…and this is a big IF…you are using a special bubble filter to read them.

              • Levina says:

                The google voice said that a filter bubble adapts info. for the interests of the one who wants to know, so it means you get the programme/info that suits your particular interest/wiring, and so it mimics the universe/life that mirrors exactly where we are at and gives us what we need? Maybe somebody knows? I feel a bit unsure about the whole thing.

  7. shantam prem says:

    What is self-enquiry?
    Is there some state of being where one can say, I don´t need it any more?

  8. shantam prem says:

    Back to the topic of this thread, faceless Frank has created the esoteric dialogue between man and woman in a satirical tone. Fact is, such things are needed for some people, they may be in minority nevertheless.

    Other day, i was looking at the chart of famous television anchor who committed suicide recently. I am sure, if she could have stumbled her way to esoteric book shop or met some guru, howsoever fake, her life would have got a new meaning. She could have seen light in the darkness.

    Religion may be an opium, esoteric may be make-believe world, but they are very helpful when used with medical precision.

    • satyadeva says:

      “Religion may be an opium, esoteric may be make-believe world, but they are very helpful when used with medical precision.”

      Yes, Shantam, beliefs, however misguided or plain stupid they might appear to others, are hugely powerful medicine. Take your own case, for example….

  9. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    I don’t know anything about previous lives, apart from a good experience during Primal.

    I only know that when the Master out of pure devotion to the disciples used the theme of previous lives he did it from a space of playful ecstasy, and before he started taking drugs …although that was for the same noble purpose, to communicate honestly from all corners where consciousness can wedge itself, including the darkest ones.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEBN05nQHh8

  10. Levina says:

    Beautifully put, Veet, specially the last sentence: “all inclusive”!

  11. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    @ Lokesh, in general within this special topc-thread…

    You’ve claimed – every now an then, Lokesh – to be an Anti-fascist AND you are an author yourself, bringing every now and then your own versions of understanding re the Master´s Teachings of Meditation – like that: “Being In the world, but NOT from it.”

    Later – sometimes and quite recently – I remember you saying that you copied something of Hitler´s mad and maddening outpourings (Ha ha ha, Scottish humour?).

    Anyway, you expressed often, you moved further. Sure you did, and so did we, who are NOT an idea of a mad IT-programmer.

    As you are fond of misusing me as a German female scapegoat, using digital fascism as a very digital bully in our SN/UK Caravanserai (see from your several comments of yesterday alone-with No-reply endings – of course) I´d like to post this morning quoting some lines of Oshonews, which appeared today about the Art of Meditation as an Art of Dying (to the past):

    “When people come to me and I look into them, its surprising how many forms they have moved in, how many bodies, how many shapes, they have lived in, how many names, religions, contries, and they are still not fed up. And they are repeating the old circle again and again.”
    (Osho, ‘The Art of Dying’, Ch 6. Q 2 (excerpt – and not an imagined one in terms of ´creative writing´, but a real one).

    And a quote, I´d say, perfectly fitting to the times of very challenging contemporaryglobal uproars, be it the just now ongoing media adaptations of a Pandemic coming from China (?) or re the amount of other atrocities like the ongoing wars and migration waves of refugies and whatnot).

    When I speak of Filter Bubbles, Lokesh (and Scottish (?)) Levina too, I use the word as a metaphor AND as the IT programming skills of people who like to stir the water, so to say (being not in their senses, I´d also say).

    ´Freedom of speech´, I´d say, is in a very bad condition for quite a while, dehumanising human beings to an often unbearable amount, claiming to be ´playful, creative and whatnot.

    There have been authors in the journalistic realms in Germany and surely elsewhere too, who got a lot of prizes just for the sheer inventing of ´events´, which did never happen but then made a lot of what we call here ´Politics´.

    This special one was a young celebrity (a Hamburger) before (just in this case) one found out that he was a (professional) Liar and did much harm his very way for years.

    The quote I´d like to post this morning and I address to you, Lokesh, as you don´t stop using me as a scapegoat and maybe proclaiming that that is ´humour´.

    It is not.
    Otherwise it´s also a very good quote and coming back to the topic, I feel.

    Madhu

    P.S:
    What about looking inside yourself how you live your self-proclaimed ´Antifa´, Lokesh, showing up here quite often with fascist´s approaches in my eyes – misusing scapegoats…and that yoz are a fan of the author you mentioned (Stephan King) was not a surpise for me. Unfortunately.

    • Lokesh says:

      Madhu, to be more concise, what you are saying is that you can’t take a joke.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        To be concise, Lokesh, what you are saying is showing that you still indulge in bullying instead of relating and need to have the last word. Pretty much always.

        Madhu

  12. Klaus says:

    My guess in regard to “what kind of past lives visions” may come up or can be seen depends on the state of mind of the seer:

    If one is in an upbeat, positive, can-do kind of mind state then
    “Caeser and Cleopatra” kind of powerful lives might be seen;
    identification confirming some kind of narcissism and ideas of grandeur.

    If one is in a negative, dejected, no-way-out kind of mind state
    then “dying in the Irish famine” or “very bad misuse of power” kind
    of lives might be seen; possibly confirming a state of depression and anxiety.

    Both ways could show imbalance of the mind.

    If one reacts with equanimity – or rather there is no reaction – to any of these pictures, imo that shows a greater balance of one’s understanding.

    Pheew. How many lives, how many forms? Human? Plant? Mineral? Animal? Out-of-this-planet? I have a friend who tells me that he was “the captain of a flying sourcer (UFO) during the times of Atlantis – and that he can see such Ufos everyday”. Even when we are walking outside, he catches my arm and says: “I can see 2 of them over there! Cant you see them?”

    But then again he pushes me to start a business together “channelling unicorns of the 12th dimension at a rate of EUR 600 per hour”. There, I cannot follow.

    Maybe perception knows no limits. Have a clue, anyone?

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Hi Klaus,
      Good that you brought the ´state of mind´ in re the topic thread and its ´going´. Maybe you could recommend your friend a Zen Retreat in Münsterschwarzach (?) to become more sober – as you seem to be acquainted with the Benedictine way to ´deal with the mind’s inventions?

      Another recommendation could be a Byron Katie worksheet and the company of a facilitator? As a kind of short-cut?

      You are right when you close your comments, saying: “Maybe perception knows no limits.” (Wouldn´t call it perception though…more an imagination of ´perception´).

      And true, Klaus, there seems to be no limit to make that a business!

      As we all – some more (pretty rare it seems), some less – up to some not at all – DO embody the gift of this embodied Life in the HERE-NOW…and have a lot to unlearn AND to learn doing that in an essential human way relating to each other.

      The very present shift (of perception and Imangination) being confronted on a daily – hours to hours – more globalised scale with some existential fear of annihilation by some invisible viral molecular happening takes its course just now – and shows up with its own teaching, doesn´t it?

      And brings up its own atrocities re unbalanced minds, doesn´t it?

      You´re asking for a clue, Klaus?

      I really don´t know better than to check the Here-Now as to my best capacity and to trust that Life takes me on its shoulders (as we used to sing a song about) – knowing quite well that my capacities are limited – as my body has its limits too.

      Loving that – instead of fighting it leaves a lot of space to explore the mysterious element of ´TRUST.

      Bit similiar as looking at a half full glas of water as half full instead of half emptied: Just an option…seeing some chances in a crises…

      Some wisdom whisperers, who we were glad enough to meet in this lifetime, have left us lots of (meditative) recommendations, and those, worth their salt, recommended, invitated, introduced and shared what they had come across in their Life´s journey. And what had/has been of help.

      And more they could not do. The rest- to live it – is up to us!

      Madhu

  13. Kavita says:

    Mystics – at any time more have been more loved than rated, I´d say, and I at least know no one of these rare Beings bragging about their Rebirth´s certificates.

    A close sannyasin friend, J, was visiting Poona last September, he is creating a place dedicated to Osho
    in the foothills of Himalayas, he was/is inspired by Jaggi Vasudev aka Sadhguru, he also shares the first name which is Jaggi & btw, even shares physical resemblance to him!

    You will be surprised to know Sadhguru claims he is an incarnation of Sumira & created his place on the basis of his past-life promise!

    J had shared that, so we explored this video, sharing link below:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ1xQUv79_8

    Madhu, today it’s warm here in Poona!

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Kavita!
      Swami Bhorat is also reincarnation of Sumira!
      Prophecy says that bhananyalingam will be built in green south!
      Certainly it is referring to Swami Bhorat`s Bungabungalore ashram!
      Bhorat has been working on his lingam for long time, applying oil and working hard to raise it to highest level possible for the benefit of humanity!

      All other attempts have failed: Hitler, Krishnamurti, Meatbeater, Sumira, Shantam…but this time perfect being will be created and unleashed on world along with 1000 year yuga of superconsciousness!

      Those who hear the call will hurry without further ado to Bungabungalore ashram and bang head on marble and listen to wise words of Sadguru and Bhorat!

      Jai Jai!
      Yahoo!
      Hari Om!

      • Kavita says:

        Yes, AY, can’t dissagree with ”Those who hear the call will hurry without further ado to Bungabungalore ashram and bang head on marble and listen to wise words of Sadhguru and Bhorat!”

    • Levina says:

      Thanx, Kavita, for the video, beautiful storyteller this Sadhguru, swoon, swoon…and beautiful pictures made by the film-maker.

      When he started telling about a perfect body for the Maitreya/friend I thought he would point out Osho as the vehicle, but no, it was good old J.K again, who declined.

      But maybe Osho was the world teacher, appealing to all sorts of people, talking about 1001 approaches to Truth, talking about the esoteric side of all the religions…And he is not acclaimed as such, especially not in advaitic circles, The biggies are always:Nis.,Ram. and Papa. My guess is that he was too much for many people, and the Oregon episode didn’t help, of course.

      • frank says:

        What about the mysterious death of Sadhguru`s wife?

        In perfect health at the age of 33, she dies suddenly. Body is cremated instantly, against the wishes of both father of the wife and Sadhguru`s father. The father of the wife brings legal proceedings, accusing of murder. Police `find no evidence`. Sadhguru`s defence: she entered Mahasamadhi,voluntary death, of her own accord. Case closed!

        He was already a guru who had by that stage claimed that he himself had chosen the birth for his wife (not a control freak, then).

        And now he`s re-heating the old theosophical ‘creating Matreya’ number and old sannyasins are buying into it. Wow.

        So, to recap on the spiritual possibilities in 21st century:

        If you want to be a shaman, you have to suck a toad.
        If you want to be a disciple to the new world teacher…you have to suck a toad!

        Must be Kali Yuga or something!

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          You say, Frank (not only yesterday at 10:08 am):
          “Must be Kali Yuga or something.”
          Well, yes, true: You-me-everybody here part of it – not only those you´re strongheadedly chasing, taking the role of a pertinacious investigator.

          Saw the vid you posted about this show man (and his wife had a short performance too for a minute or so); and the youtube published talk was quite off the wall in my eyes! Neither intelligently ´absurd´ this performance of a Gio Ronaldo – nor, I´d say, recommendable to confront a Sadhguru (which you did).

          I´m wondering for quite a while if you are just up to deconstruct somebody on the teaching line, dethrone and deconstruct a person who has some kind of ´following, or if you are really interested as well in those who – for whatsoever reasons – got involved in the whole happening?

          Day later (today), you talk about a ´Theatre of Absurdity´ picking up one sentence from the three months enduring magnificent lectures Osho hold in Uruguay.

          And made it an Issue (and a dictum almost some dogma) – generalizing (quite very roughly I´d say!).
          That´s repelling me, especially as I´ve been following that special phase daily at my place here (where it was daily shared by vids in the evening meditation).

          You can call me (again) ´´a catholic sannyasin´´; I don´t mind.
          As this Uruguay months have been and are for me very precious, call it teaching or whatsoever. And I know what I am talking about.

          I´ve been devastated when Osho was deported also there, I can say, and it took some time to digest the
          teaching that that had for me ( here in Munich).

          Why I´m writing this?
          Because a Theatre of Absurdity is one thing in my eyes, all in its place.
          A Sangha and a Mystery School again something else.

          And the Kali Yuga happening again something else.

          And how such is, or maybe intervowen, needs more awareness than a show business approach!

          Sorry,

          Madhu

      • Kavita says:

        Yes, Levina, JV has good marketing skills & also an efficient team for that, with have advanced technology of today.

        Anyway, my cupa tea was Osho, no more teas needed now!

        Seen the real Dhyana Lingam!

      • Kavita says:

        Levina, I would like to add that JV has created a place for meditation, but I find him too much of a nationalist & also too much of a Hinduist for my taste, so can’t really call him a ‘mystic’ and nowhere in the league of J.K. & Osho.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        But maybe, Levina (at 6:41 am),

        There may be some very fortunate secret-stuff hidden in that: ´NOT to be ´acclaimed´ in whatsoever ´circle ever as ´whatsoever´?

        Could be LOVE Surpreme as a special gift to those who came/come across such a Being?

        Your guess, that Osho was “too much” for many people (including His own lot – of sannyasins) btw, might be right, or not. My own assumption is that that which is NOT perfect (and not acclaimed) has a very good chance of a Living-Line….

        Always love to read your contributions.

        Thanks,

        Madhu

      • swamishanti says:

        I remember the chart by John Hogue, from his book ‘Millennium- Prophecies of Nostradamus’, which appeared in the foreword to Maneesha James’s, ‘Bhagwan: Buddha for the Future’ (1988).

        All the major gurus of the 20th century were compared in the chart: J.Krishnamurti, Osho, Sai Baba, Reverend Moon, Da Free John, Muktananda, Prabhupada.

        Osho was the only one who had all the signs of the World Teacher , predicted by Nostradamus:
        The two birds, the moon, the colour red, star born in the east, and the rest I don’t remember.

        • Kavita says:

          SS , I remember watching Orson Welles’s ‘The Man Who Saw Tommorow’ on a vcr during summer vacation at our family friends’ place; I was in school then. When I told my father about that, he said Bruce Lee movies are more interesting!

          • swamishanti says:

            And when the Emperor of Ethiopia, Haille Selasie, arrived for a visit to Jamaica, there were said to be several signs which fullfilled biblical prophecies.

            “Nuff a dem no see when the Emperor come
            A lightning and thunder when the man touch down
            A showers of blessing did come shower down
            And little after that a just the burning sun
            From the east a flock of white dove did come
            Man a chant nyabingi a beat bongo drum.”

            Capleton: ‘No Man Can Save No Man’

            https://youtu.be/3gXgX5pupmQ

  14. Klaus says:

    This beautiful animal comes to my mind:

    https://www.gettyimages.de/detail/foto/giraffe-sticking-his-head-out-of-clouds-lizenzfreies-bild/931446400

    Once we can stick our head out of the clouds….

  15. frank says:

    Being the possessor of various siddhis picked up over several aeons on the path, I can remember many past lives which were extraordinary adventures that have very much enlightened me on my spiritual journey, and given humanity a well-needed helping hand along the way, too.

    For example, I was a tour guide in Kashmir when Jesus came over for his gap year. He was a bit wet behind the ears in those days, but I fixed him up in a cowshed, very cheap price, and showed him the ropes. He was a great soul, we had some good times puffing away round the hubbly-bubbly. He would just look at you with that look and say: “Verily I say unto you…” and you just knew he was going to come out with another classic one-liner.

    Back in Judea, we had a kickass time, brewing our own hooch, turning water into wine, selling sandwiches at festivals, doing healing and stuff. Things got pretty hardcore: We started a riot in a temple, hung loose with hookers, got into some fishy business, but Jesus eventually got busted for blasphemy and joy-riding on a stolen donkey.

    I denied everything and managed to split before I got nailed, too. I trousered his pint pot and caught the boat to England with Joseph of Aramathea where we hung out for a while in Glastonbury, Stonehenge and West Wales where I eventually got killed in a drunken brawl with some Druids on magic mushrooms who were trying to nick the pint pot off me. I didn`t realise it at the time, but that`s how I actually started the quest for the Holy Grail!

    I was reborn in Khajuraho where I managed to get a job as an artist`s model for some stone carvers. I meditated on my lingam pretty much 24/7. Those guys worked slow so it was a job for life. In fact, I died on the job.

    Btw: Anyone else had any good past lives?

    • Klaus says:

      Woah. Nice. And no horrific violence. Besides the nailing.
      Lots of travelling, too. Interesting times. Artistic.

      Smiley.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Kudos, Your Honour! (Report by Frank yesterday at 8:03 pm).

      That´s what I call a Milleniae´s story-line. I´m utterly stunned and in awe.

      My story more that of an unripe mango, being picked up from the tree, then shipped or going by flight by food investments, to fill up the grocery stores, where at the end of this line, consumers are so often disappointed, when missing the ´taste´.

      In other words: The PL experiences all happen (or not) by a delayed ripening outside the tree.
      In other-other words: Having had in the human womb of the mother some murky glimpses of some atrocities ahead and really didn´t want to leave the womb.

      My mother couldn´t forgive me the latter all her lifetime, and quite generously left the art of forgiveness all in my hands of response-ability. So I had to travel a lot, to explore the ‘mango tree’ and its roots and what is necessary for ripening, visiting some special school-yards, and that I did.

      Mother´s very deep Lover, my father, left me an abundanct capacity of curiousity, to explore; when he found out though that I ´ve been going to apply it to myself, was not so amused, the least to say.

      Anyway, however – to tell the truth: the roots of the tree I´m coming from are good ones and not rotten (as I unfortunately sometimes had (have) the tendency (pattern) to ´think´. The journeys I undertook taught me that.

      And – inspite of my still limited awareness and perception capacities – brought me ( amongst other stuff) to the suggestion that Past-Lives are showing up in the Presence of this very life in the HERE-NOW, and that in a never ending processing.

      Now – in old age, so to say, I can report that I´m going slightly better re the forgiveness Issue – and also what Love is – or is not – has still some chapters still ahead of ´blank paper´(just as we are in a writing life-classroom here at SN/UK).

      I see the morning dawn through the shutters of my closed window.
      Didn´t hear the crows this morning, who are habitually coming for a short visit.

      Time to open the window.

      Opening the window, I see the garbage pickers; They wear bright orange and their big cars are orange too.

      I dedicate all the love I´m capable of just now to the thousends and thousends of refugees of our time, whom I know to have neither a window nor a bed – nor – as on the surviving line – the luxury to write something down.

      As an unripe ´mango´, I came to know how that feels. And didn´t forget it.

      Madhu

    • Levina says:

      Frank, how can anyone compete with a past life like that! Jesus Christ!
      Smiley for both of You!

    • satchit says:

      Good imagination, Frank.

      Why only past life on this planet?

      I had a past life on our planet Zhao
      which belongs to the Sun of Alpha Centauri.

  16. Kavita says:

    SD,
    I responded to the below, I have put them/responses in the right order! (SN replies do some vague gymnastics sometimes) I don’t see what’s wrong with such discussion.

    Disclaimer: I speak for myself, I am not promoting or undermining anyone/body, if that’s what you’re implying.

    Shantam Prem says:
    29 February, 2020 at 2:56 pm
    “Past Life!

    Is there is a single sentence where Osho mentions something like, “I was a Britisher or a German or an Italian in the past life?”

    Reply:
    Kavita says:
    29 February, 2020 at 4:07 pm
    “Asian masters have only Asian past lives!”

    Madhu Dagmar Frantzen says:
    29 February, 2020 at 8:30 pm
    “Uuups, Kavita (at 4:07 pm),

    You can´t mean that statement seriously; or can you?@

    Reply
    Kavita says:
    1 March, 2020 at 4:31 am
    “Madhu, both maybe!

    Osho has mentioned about his Tibetan Buddhist past! Probably if he had a convent education he could have said “I was a Britisher or a German or an Italian in the past life?”!

    ‘Past life’ as such is Hinduish since it involves a karmic factor & since Hinduism was/is followed mainly in Asia, seriously speaking.

    Now, probably, that ‘PL’ concept has entered all the new age searchers’ psyche, breaking all religious barriers globally who previously have had a one-life concept.”

    • satyadeva says:

      No, Kavita, I’m not claiming you’re promoting or undermining anyone, I’m just questioning some basic unexamined assumptions that invariably seem to be made during such discussions, particularly the one where people glibly talk about the matter without considering precisely who or what might (or might not?) ‘re-incarnate’. In other words, they talk a load of simplistic, shallow nonsense!

      Perhaps the truth is too complex or unpalatable for it to have ever been made public to a lot of people, I don’t know.

      Besides, what does it matter anyway? We’ll find out (or not) whenever the time’s right for us.

      • Kavita says:

        “Perhaps the truth is too complex or unpalatable for it to have ever been made public to a lot of people, I don’t know.

        Besides, what does it matter anyway? We’ll find out (or not) whenever the time’s right for us.”

        SD, this I can relate to; agree &hope to keep on finding in & out. Cheers.

      • frank says:

        The idea of transmigration had spread over the East because all the authorities, that is, the wisest people with the support of the most powerful in the land proclaimed the truth of it. In their day they were ultimate authorities. They were Popes, Shankaracharyas, scientists and the police, rolled into one!

        They ruled the roost in those days, and like today’s scientists, they tell you stuff about the universe that you can`t really know yourself, and as a layman you don`t disagree with Prof. Brian Cox (famous astrophysicist) about the ins and outs of nuclear fusion, do you?

        In short, the ancient religious authorities had total power of authorisation when it came to what people believed.

        People accepted reincarnation as true in the same way as before Galileo people `knew` that the sun circled round the earth!

        However, it is very strange to me then that these uber-wise men in their total scientific/spiritual understanding of the true nature of existence were not able to discover and present the simple truth that men and women are essentially two parts of the same animal, therefore equal in the eyes of `God` or anyone with half a brain still functioning. Instead of unswervingly supporting a system of ownership by one half over the other half and the idea that it was divinely ordained.

        How did their wisdom grasp one more difficult/unknowable fact and miss the obvious by proclaiming difference in status between the sexes as divine truth?

        I suspect the answer is something along the lines of “Because they could get away with it.”

        • Levina says:

          Because you “can get away with it”, Frank? Get away in fantasie and nonsense land. It gives us a good laugh, but luckily the stories are so absurd that we/I don’t believe them. Heck, I don’t even know whether this Frank is a real person!

          • frank says:

            Hi Levina,

            “Everything that is significant is absurd.”
            (Osho)

            • Levina says:

              Frank, is that statement really from Osho? That would have included himself!

              • frank says:

                Levina,
                Yes, on both counts.
                You can google it.
                He goes on to say:
                “I am bound to be absurd.”

                It`s from ‘Beyond Psychology.Talks in Uruguay’.

                He was a big fan of the Theatre of the Absurd, wasn`t he? `Waiting for Godot` etc

                I`m pretty sure his `circus` also qualified as Theatre of the Absurd, too. Played in real-time.

  17. satyadeva says:

    Yes, MOD – and at times there’s a fine line between wothwhile risk and sheer foolishness.

  18. anand yogi says:

    Shantambhai is certainly a whistle-blower!

    Holed up in his small room in a foreign country ,he has struck fear into the heartless hearts of corrupt western baboons, whilst blowing his whistle, fingering his flute and bashing the bishop!

    When it comes to massive leaks, not even Julian Assange can match the sheer volume coming from Shantam`s chuddies!

    Certainly, if famous blonde female television anchor with breasts like ripe mangoes had come to meet wise man from East such as Shantam, she would have been given new meaning in life!
    Make-believe world is absolutely necessary on spiritual path!

    Yahoo!
    Hari Om!

  19. Lokesh says:

    Perfectly correct, great Yogi.

    Thanks to pointless pointer from Ma Madhoo Prachet I am now proud owner of special filter hubble-bubble, which of course means I can fully understand your great teachings for mankind.

    Unfortunately, my special hubble-bubble filter is utterly useless when it comes to deciphering Madhoo Prachet’s communication, due to her using the now obsolete Mark One filter bubble, manufactured back at the end of the fall of Berlin in 1945.

    Hail Bhorat and the great emission.

  20. satchit says:

    Certainly you are a whistleblower, Shantam.

    You are the Greta Thunberg of Sannyas.

    Maybe you should make a poster with:
    “Stop destroying Osho’s work!”

  21. swamishanti says:

    Mod: try this one . This link should work.

    Here’s a poster I made some time back , around the topic of OIF planning to set up a base in London: http://sannyasnews.org/now/now/files/bpfb/2264_0-79631600-1582800675_2067a312-2d3c-4b1a-b043-9d72ec5b04d6.gif

  22. frank says:

    Would you buy a used Zen stick from any of those guys?

  23. swamishanti says:

    What, you mean would I buy anything from Dr John Andrews- er, did you mean ‘Dr George Aubrey-Wynn Meredith -er, hang on a minute, no, it’s Swami Devaraj? Ah no, wait, it should be Swami Prem Amrito? And Swami Jayesh? – aka Michael O’Byrne – ah, wait, no , it’s been changed again to Michael Byrne.

    The answer’s no, because I prefer the Osho books in the old style, when they still had his photos on the front cover. And the old Rebel publishing house books which Osho personally had a hand in designing (which also showed his artistic side) also always featured full-size photos of him on the covers and pictures inside.

  24. Lokesh says:

    “Would you buy a used Zen stick from any of those guys?”

    Only if it had one end.

  25. swamishanti says:

    That should be Dr. George Alexander Wynne-Aubrey Meredith. (Aka Dr John Andrews).

  26. shantam prem says:

    Past Life!

    Is there is a single sentence where Osho mentions something like, “I was a Britisher or a German or an Italian in the past life?”

  27. Kavita says:

    Asian masters have only Asian past lives!

  28. Klaus says:

    @Shantam

    In an interview with Dieter Kronzucker, German journalist, he said, that “Eva Renzi once was my wife. And she is still treating me like a husband….”

    But there was no indication about nationalities or localities.

    It was on the youtube, but gone…

    You could see the question + exclamation mark above Kronzucker’s head quite clearly.

  29. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Uuups, Kavita (at 4:07 pm),

    You can´t mean that statement seriously; or can you?

    Madhu

  30. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Hi Klaus,

    I need to switch in here asking you: What the f..k do you want to pass over with that remark about Kronzucker?

    You know, the very night of October 3rd, 1985, Diter Kronzucker (at prime-time German Television) prsented his version of the Ranch and Sheela´s gang then in northern Island etc., was the night my father died, after having several heart attacks.

    That was the last phone call I had with my father, when he recommended me to watch Kronzucker´s feature film (which I did). We had an appointment to talk it over then next day. That did not happen then but a few days later I went to his funeral.

    I´m writing that because it´s not at all transparent what´s your intention and what in particular you wanted to pass here over in an open public chat (addressing Shantam).

    So – what´s your own Issue? I´m asking you.
    And what do YOU want to say therewith? And re the topic?

    Madhu

  31. Kavita says:

    Madhu, both maybe!

    Osho has mentioned about his Tibetan Buddhist past! Probably if he had a convent education he could have said “I was a Britisher or a German or an Italian in the past life?”!

    ‘Past life’ as such is Hinduish since it involves a karmic factor & since Hinduism was/is followed mainly in Asia, seriously speaking.

    Now, probably, that ‘PL’ concept has entered all the new age searchers’ psyche, breaking all religious barriers globally who previously have had a one-life concept.

  32. shantam prem says:

    As I can imagine when an Indian soul of many lives gets birth in the West, there will be a natural inclination to feel enchanted by Advaita literature more than the Bible. Osho pulled such fishes from the foreign sea in his New Age net, you can indulge in decadence without guilt, just do his style of meditation and change the name…

    Things anyway look delicious when seen from the distance.

    As I see, westerners going to Tiru or Rishikesh have this lingering feeling of being here on this part of the world but I don´t think Ramana Maharishi or even Jaggi Vasudev or even Osho ever were born in the West. 100% western genius have different kind of depth and grace.

  33. Lokesh says:

    Yes,Kavita, reincarnation has its roots in the cult of Krishna. In those times it was believed that only famous people, kings, queens and heroes were the only ones who reincarnated The Bible also has references to reincarnation, although oblique as the translations over the centuries have almost completely erased the direct references to reincarnation.

    Early man must have looked around him and noticed that life moves in circles. Maybe Tig the caveman might have dreamt he would be a sabre-toothed tiger next time around, but I kind of doubt it. Probably ancestor worship would have been closer to the mark..

  34. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Kavita,
    there have been at any time rare Beings
    ( EAST & WEST & SOUTH & NORTH) – some may call them Mystics , as to give it a ´name´; Beings , who surpassed the need of concepts.
    Some survived , some were murdered as surrounding societies may have seen them as a danger, others may have left their traces in Silence.

    In the West we had a Juan de La Crux ( in Spain) – or Master Eckardt – or Hildegard from Bingen, to name just a very few and some from those who happened more than a few centuries ago ; still are honored – in WEST as EAST in these rare cases, whose left traces are still ´working one can say.
    The whole bunch of indigene wisdom ( worldwide) not to mention just now, which itself has left living energetic traces.

    The whole conceptual way of thinking and ´rating´has its ” Time Up” on a more major scale today and some of the war-like scenarios happening could well mirror that, couldn´t ´they´?

    The ´New Age´ movement as it is called ( conceptual-wise) – and unjustified contempted by so many people now , what is it more than the urge of ´chedding chains ´?
    A longing for freedom from chains and the longing to grow into a ´better world´as said in a simplifying way – is happening everywhere – be it in individuals , be it in collectives.

    And such knows no borders, you bet!

    Mystics – at any time more have been more loved than rated, I´d say, and I at least know no one of these rare Beings bragging about their Rebirth´s certificates.

    Such – under all else happening appearances of their Presence makes them so lovable, I´d presume.
    That , what is so lovable maybe nothing else then but an happening Echo then in a throbbing Heart of a receiver.

    A NOT -Knowing attitude ; we find it in the eyes of any new born child; but rarely to regain it, very rarely.

    Innocense regained. Very rarely.

    Madhu

  35. satyadeva says:

    Re: Kavita’s post, March 1, 2020, 4.31am

    Yes, but Kavita, such discussions are permeated with largely unconscious garbage as very few seem to bother to examine just ‘who’ these so-called ‘past’ and ‘future’ lives supposedly happen(ed) to.

    Most people simply appear to assume it was/will be their current personality or something approximating that. So it’s just a sort of psychic entertainment with barely any truth or reality in it.

  36. Lokesh says:

    Really, Shantam, it is about time you grew out of your East/West dictum. It is no longer relevant and therefore makes what you have to say on the matter sound like utter nonsense.

    Man’s search for truth is universal and does not recognize international borderlines.

    Ramana was no genius, even though perhaps the most enlightened man of his time. Being a genius has nothing to do with the enlightened state, because being a genius refers to a purely mental, intellectual condition that requires a good brain. A brain is part of the human form and therefore transcended by the enlightened. This is something you do not seem to grasp, Shantam.

    I honestly believe that Osho understood that and lived it, hence the reason for his epitaph, never born….etc. That is something you will never understand with the mind, because it was never intended for such a purpose.

  37. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, your above post is reactive not responsive. Reason is clear, you are not willing to go beyond your thinking pattern. If you can go little away from your comfort zone you won´t put down the provocation with analytica.

    Persons who provoke thoughts are not always right, but they are right for the reason they challenge conventional thinking.

    Out of the box thinking does not end with Mr. Jain Sir with various names and titles, though he himself became victim of his success born out of his line of thinking.

  38. Kavita says:

    The Bible also has references to reincarnation, although oblique as the translations over the centuries have almost completely erased the direct references to reincarnation – definitely nearly erased.

    Lokesh, would you be able to share, if possible, any story about ”oblique as the translations over the centuries”? Would be interesting.

    Krishna is supposed to be an eighth incarnation of Vishnu and Vishnu, btw, had ten, his last being Buddha!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashavatara

  39. Kavita says:

    P.S:
    Now there are more than ten incarnations according to wiki. Btw, they have not included J. Krishnamurti, Osho and other enlightened ones of the 20th/21st century!

  40. Lokesh says:

    Point is, Shantam, thinking is, out of the box and otherwise, in the world of meditation, strictly for the novices.

  41. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, repeat the above cliche one more time.

    World of meditation ends, moment one open the eyes. How much meditative effect remains one sees in everyday life situations.

    Swami Santa was getting reminders after reminders from the bank and due to default. Case went in the court but Santa remained peaceful and high.
    His friend Banta asked for this state of peacefulness. Santa replied, “It is all because of meditation effect. I don´t think I am a bank defaulter.”
    Does it mean Banta must feel inspired because Santa was a regular meditator?

    Quite often one can observe people who have skin-deep experience of meditation brag too much. (This is general statement not intended for anyone in particular).

  42. satyadeva says:

    “World of meditation ends, moment one open the eyes.”

    That’s a misconception, Shantam. That’s like using meditation as some sort of temporary relief from living, a sort of ‘quick fix’, like a cup of tea (or something much stronger), a pep pill or a tranquilliser. True meditation is about profound self-enquiry. Do you know what that involves yet? How many years have you been a sannyasin?

    As for saying, “Quite often one can observe people who have skin-deep experience of meditation brag too much”, well, whether or not this is true, the first question would be how do you know what others’ experience is, especially when it appears you’ve no relevant experience of your own?

    As with many of your remarks, the bottom line seems to be an underlying wish to persuade yourself you’ve missed nothing much, that you haven’t wasted your time, as others have ‘failed’ just as much as you. And I suggest that calling yourself a “whistleblower” is a grandiose way of covering up these inner motives.

  43. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, cliche or not, what I said happens to be true.

    You say, “World of meditation ends, moment one open the eyes.”
    This is a complete misconception, especially so coming from a sannyasin.

  44. shantam prem says:

    Satyadeva, can you please share some relevant meditation experiences of your own?

  45. satyadeva says:

    Shantam, you still don’t get the point. As I said earlier, you seem to conceive of meditation as some sort of drug or therapy for temporary relief.

    The well-being generated by a number of Osho meditations is helpful, of course, but if what you describe as “meditation experiences” means ‘getting high’ or into some more-than-just-ordinary ‘altered state’, they’re not what’s ultimately important – unless they serve self-enquiry, seeing onself as one is, giving up what makes us unhappy.

  46. Lokesh says:

    I suspect Shantam really does not understand much about meditation. Having met Shantam I would say he is more of a feeling man…good heart etc.

    Problems can arise when someone believes everything they feel is correct and therefore feels justified in acting on their feelings, because feelings are not always accurate.

    Osho advised people to follow their feelings, which is all very well, but say someone is feeling suicidal….

  47. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    You´ve been waiting quite some days, Satyadeva, to share your reminder, mentioning “glibly talk” today at 4:16 pm (which I had to ´google…).

    Good reminder.

    Thanks,

    Madhu

  48. satchit says:

    Osho said ‘follow your energy’, which is something different.

    Yes, Shantam is the feeling type, but he has no distance.
    So he is far away from his core which is peace.
    Shantam means peace, doesn’t it?

  49. satyadeva says:

    So was it therapists who doled out the mantra, “Follow your feelings”?

  50. satchit says:

    Yes, SD, can be the therapists.

    As far as I remember the teaching is/was:
    “Watch your thoughts, watch your feelings!”

  51. Lokesh says:

    I think it’s a matter of context. I heard Osho say to a number of people that they should follow their feelings in darshan. He had mottos relating to getting out of your head and moving into their heart.

    Women are often at an advantage over men because they can feel things instantly as opposed to men having to think things over. I know that there have been times when I followed my feelings about someone or something and been completely wrong. Can’t win ‘em all.

  52. swamishanti says:

    I think you should produce a music track called, ‘There was no better advert for enlightenment than Osho sitting on his back porch’.

  53. shantam prem says:

    “Women are often at an advantage over men because they can feel things instantly as opposed to men having to think things over.”

    Lokesh, you have written one more cliche. Modern astrology as well as psychology refutes such generalisation.

  54. Klaus says:

    Somebody has written a song with the title:
    ‘We deserve a Happy Ending!’
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7RopOgsh5c
    by: The Reverend Peyton’s Damn Big Band

    Be careful: This is addictive. To me, at least.

    Question:
    “Do we deserve a happy ending?”
    Oh yes, certainly.

  55. shantam prem says:

    Hello, Great meditators.

    As per your self-assessment, how many more lives you will be needing to sit at one place like Ramana or move around like Rajneesh (Sr./Jr.)?

    Also, are you ready to embark the journey of asexual men?!

  56. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    You donated a question yesterday evening ( at 8:39 pm) Klaus – and shared same time your answer too.
    I´m grateful that you did that – maybe not the way – you´d imagine (?).

    As it brought crystal clear a memory to my experiental history – mind.
    I´d been dancing in that huge Buddha Hall in Oregon with just a few other dancers, being ´blissed out´one can say, that my body and especially the legs ( which had been suffering after an accident) had been beautifully recovered.

    Some musicians have been there (far away practising for the next Satsang happening) and – more far away – I saw one of the RIMU Therapists* just standing in another corner – far away too.

    In the midst of it all, all of a sudden ( as the small lot had been practising with the technical musical equipments) the Master´s voice was replicated in the tuner – with:
    “Existence does not owe anything to you; it´s you who owe everything to Existence.” Then the music practitioners again.

    I know – still to that very moment now – that I ´ve had been stunned – ; that any movement stopped instantaneously and that I felt like thrown in a Void: ´Emptied – in one stroke´.

    I´m unable to find other and better words to that memory — but there are moments I came across , where eternity meets time in rare moments , and you feel some Truth in that. (If you like it – or not – Truth is an uncomfortable companion, one can say…others again speak of inconvenient truths…).

    Without your contribution I wouldn´t have remembered that, Klaus.

    Thanks very much.

    However – as far as I´m concerned, I won´t get addicted to the song or vid, yet being grateful that you posted it!

    Madhu

    *P.S:
    I loved the time in Pune One when ´Therapists´ have had been taken care of by the Master and were simply called (and treated as) Meditators (like anybody else living in the commune).
    In course of the time and all the ongoing changes then happening , such has had been changing too .

    Not easy to bow down to (inevitable (?) changes; not easy growing on the acceptance-line, as I call it.

  57. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    I really like, Madhu, the changes that are happening to your way of expressing yourself and to your feeling, which guides the choice of things to share.

  58. Klaus says:

    @ Madhu 9:29 3 March

    Congrats! Salutes! Eveything!

    P.S:
    There are a load of other R&B songs by the Reverend Peyton.

  59. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, could you please copy and paste two relevant quotes illustrating why modern astrology as well as psychology refutes such generalisation?

  60. Klaus says:

    @Shantam 9:23 3 March

    <7

    Smiley.

  61. Shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, when one has read hundreds of books of any subject, it is not easy to find quotations.

    Simple thumb of the rule, there are six Male signs, six female signs. It means women with Aries or Gemini will think about feelings more than the men who are Taurus or Cancer.

    When my piece of astrology gets published here, I will add more points. Anyway, I know Sagittarians are the ones who rarely read astrology, because it is said in Hindi, camels are afraid to go near the mountains.