What is ‘Osho’s Legacy’?
This question has surfaced at Sannyas News a number of times over the years, evoking conflicting viewpoints:
Is it what he consciously and carefully left behind, eg a specific structure, including places, (communes, ashrams), practices, guidelines for sannyasins to live by?
Or did he simply do his utmost to help and simply departed, trusting in Life to take care and for the fruits of his work to unfold how, when and where they would?
But did he actually care what the future would look like for sannyasins? Does it make sense to even imagine any “legacy” exists or has ever existed?
Nearly 6 years ago, Lokesh wrote on this topic at Sannyas News: http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/3278
And last Saturday, ‘Quora Digest’ published the following short article by Anand Sharma, highly relevant to considering ”what Osho left behind’, particularly in the light of what some (or many?) regard as his “downfall”, ie his failure.
What Led to the Downfall of Osho? (by Anand Sharma)
Nothing led to the ‘downfall of Osho’. In my opinion many of his talks given from after he began speaking again after three years of public silence in Oct 1984 until 1990 are amongst some of the best that he ever gave. His books on Zen compiled from talks given during the last few years of his life were being introduced by some Zen masters and studied in tZen monasteries in Japan.
The energy that came through him was consistently transformative and powerfull throughout his lifetime, and it is still available to help people. But I would always recommend a living master. Unless you have a connection to Osho that works for you.
There is an old Sufi saying: ‘Many are called, few are chosen’.
By the end of the seventies Osho had attracted hundreds of thousands of people – the figure of a quarter of a million was bandied around a lot- and he wanted to clear away some of the blind followers and believers who were following him intellectually but were not tuned in closely with him with a spiritual connection.
So some people never made the transition during his period in Rajneeshpuram and some of the outrageous devices he used were effective at clearing away those were not intimately spiritually connected to him.
Osho didn’t want to be respectable and amassing a huge collection of Rolls Royce’s was enough to put off many who cared about respectability. .He had been greatly inspired by the mystic George Gurdgieff who had spent time with the Naqshbandi Sufis. The Naqshbandi Sufis would deliberately destroy their reputation to avoid amassing too many followers . George Gurdjieff | 20th Century Mystic & Philosophe|B Community
There was also the commune management led by Sheela which put many poeple off too. But Osho was able to help any sannyasin who was connected to Osho spiritually from a distance , there was no need to be in his physical presence, and some sannyasins who left Rajneeshpuram after falling out with Sheela or other members of her harsh regime(or sometimes ordered to leave) , still maintained the inner connection with Osho’s presence.
Then there were the crimes of Sheela’s management which Osho exposed in September 1985, after she had left. These crimes have stained his reputation a little , much more than he had intended but not damaged his legacy too badly, his books and meditations are still very popular, and there are enlightened sannyasins who are sharing with seekers around the world , and their will also be enlightened lineages which are the real legacy of Osho’ work . Osho spent years trying to spread consciousness and meditation around the earth and he didn’t do a bad job.
From Quora Digest, August 24, 2019
Being a writer by trade I am aware of how it feels to read something I wrote years ago and say to myself, “Man, did I write that?”
I followed the link to the article I wrote six years ago and read the whole thing. I would change a couple of things here or there but it really is not a bad article and more or less my views on Osho’s legacy have not changed much.
Synchronicity is at play. Earlier today I wrote an email to someone who was asking me what I thought Osho’s main message was. I think the old man transmitted many messages, some inspiring, others just plain nuts. More importantly, I think he shared many great insights. What you do with those insights is up to you. That is what it boils down to…it’s up to you.
If Osho had such a thing as a legacy I would say it was to do with how he touched and affected people by being in that remarkable presence of his. People new to Osho no doubt are touched by him in some way or another, but I suspect that must be a very watered down energy compared with how it was to actually sit with him while alive. Whatever floats your boat.
Ultimately, spiritual masters and teachers are like milestones on the path of life…a path that you must walk alone. Nobody else can do that for you.
I like a couple of points that Sharma has made. Osho knew that his presence would still be available after he left his body and he was well aware that people would try to form some type of religion.
The first talks he gave when after he came out of three years of silence in Oct 1984, were dubbed ‘The Rajneesh Bible – talks for the chosen few, who would be the messengers of Rajneeshism for the world at large’.
In those talks, which make up the three volumes of the Rajneesh Bible, Osho tore into organised religion, making it clear that he was destroying any possibility for any dogma or orthodox belief system to be left behind for people to blindly follow after he had led his body. He made it clear that he was deliberately contradicting himself to allow people to find their own truths.
“I don’t want you to believe in my statements, because my statements go on changing every day. If you believe in my statements you are going to be crazy. They are so contradictory, you will not be able to figure out what I actually want to say to you.
But trust remains the same — the same flavor, the same grace, the same beauty, because it is not a statement of the mind. It is not a statement at all. It is a silent communion between two hearts, a silent communion in which two hearts synchronize; their beats become a rhythm, their vibe takes the same color and aroma.
What the hell am I doing here?
Persuading you every day that you should not agree with anyone! You should be yourself. You were agreeing with Jesus, you were agreeing with Moses, and now you have started agreeing with me.
But you remain the same – the agreeing fool. Your subjects change, but you don’t change!
I am talking to you in such a way that if you have a little intelligence you cannot agree with me. Every day I go on contradicting myself. How long are you going to put up with me? Sooner or later you will say, ”I cannot agree with all these contradictions.” And that’s exactly what I want.
I want you to agree with yourself – a great agreement with whatever you are.”
(Osho: From Death to Deathlessness)
I read some of one of those volumes a few years back and there were some great pieces that I loved from Osho in the talks. There were also some outrageous and quite disgusting passages that I thought were rubbish. In the end, when I moved home I was clearing my space and decided to just throw the book into the trash, I didn’t bother giving it to a charity shop either.
But isn’t that beautiful, then, if Osho’s ‘new man’ – whoever they may be – can throw his books into the rubbish if he doesn’t need them, yet still feel Osho’s presence in his heart?
How different to the other religious types and who cling to their scriptures and are afraid to argue with any passage from their holy books.
When asked, “What is your legacy?”, didn`t Osho say something like, “My sannyasins are my legacy”? Maybe someone has a link to the exact quote.
So I guess that means that for everyone who ever wandered in off the streetless street through the gateless gate onto a pathless path, or tried to lose their mindless mind by joining a religionless religion, or even got their ego, wallet or ass burned by a cultless cult and ended up trying to walk the walk with a legless legacy it’s a case of, for better or worse, you`re doing it already…
May the road rise up to meet you.
You said, Frank (30 August at 10.37 am):
“When asked, “What is your legacy?”, didn`t Osho say something like, “My sannyasins are my legacy”? Maybe someone has a link to the exact quote.”
The ´link´, I remember, that I heard Him say: “You are my biography…” (instead of ´legacy´) and that makes quite a difference as it points to the past and past lives and having met the Master in other times, other circumstances and that we were bound to meet again, to complete a circle.
The most prominent example of such has been with Vivek, later Nirvano, as we all know, because He spoke about it in particular.
There was a time, many had dreams and some even had hallucinations about ´past life connections to the Master and the same was going on and sometimes was communicated (mostly in Pune I) amongst fellow-travellers: a heart-core feeling of a deep familiarity, of meeting again, completing a circle, some strange and strong urge to bring stuff into peace and dissolve it this way.
He didn´t speak much about it, but sometimes.
As your second chapter about the ´streetless streets´, the ´gateless gate´, joining a ´cultless cult´, ´walking the walk´, you´re describing the inummerable traps our ´mindless minds´ are encountering, while trying our very best to catch the abundance of the present moment to the fullest.
You did end up in your response with good wishes, Frank, and I join you there.
And I guess, no ´road´ has to ´rise up´ for this matter…
Sunday dawn now here
The clouds have an apricot coulour for a little while while the sun is rising
And how beautiful is that
Last days of this summertime….
Madhu
A quote from the article:
“So some people never made the transition during his period in Rajneeshpuram and some of the outrageous devices he used were effective at clearing away those were not intimately spiritually connected to him.”
This quote can be interpreted in many different ways. I think some of those “outrageous devices” may well have been outrageous fuck-ups. Many good people were put off by the mess in Rajneeshpuram. It had nothing to do with being unable to go through some kind of transition and everything to do with seeing that the dream was over and some very nasty shit had hit the fan.
I think these matters have been discussed more than enough. To keep returning to it is like old troopers going on about their adventures in the trenches of front line warfare. It’s history. What is happening today…here and now is where the real action is.
Old chap, yes indeed there were a whole series of fuck-ups – trying to build a large-scale commune city state in Reagan’s USA was a big mistake in the first place.
The scale of the fuck-ups: wire-tapping operations, taping, psychopathic madwomen running the place – that is absurd enough to create a laugh. Who could have written such a story? But is also tragic.
But personally I can see the signs that Osho appears to have been clearing the space the work more intensively with those who were ready, and using devices to weed out some of the crowds. Paritosh, aka Sam, also had a similar conclusion in his book, ‘Life of Osho’.
There are certain things. For example, the rumour that Osho was demanding a million dollar watch from Sheela one day (I don’t know if that one is an accurate story) and was demanding that Sheela buy him yet another Rolls Royce, exactly the same model again (he loved winding her up with that one).
These things mirror exactly some of the activities of Gurdjieff, who has been reported to have demanded large sums of money from some of his disciples who left him. This has been said by Gurdjieffians to be his device to get rid of those people he felt he could no longer work with, and is believed to be inspired by things he had learnt with Sufis that he had studied with.
Osho said that when he changed his name from Acharya Rajneesh to ‘Bhagwan’, this helped to clear away lots of Indians who were following him but not tuned into him spiritually. ‘Bhagwan‘ was no big deal for westerners but for Indians it was provocative.
I recently read a piece from Oshonews on Osho talking about the name change in Pune One:
“I am here to impart being. I am here to make you awake. I am not going to give you knowledge, I am going to give you knowing – and that is a totally different dimension.
Calling myself Bhagwan was simply symbolic – that now I have taken a different dimension to work. And it has been tremendously useful. All wrong people automatically disappeared and a totally different quality of people started arriving.
It worked well. Chinmaya’s choice was good. It sorted out well. Only those who are ready to dissolve with me remained, all others escaped. They created space around me. Otherwise they were crowding too much, and it was very difficult for the real seekers to come closer to me. The crowds disappeared. The word ‘Bhagwan’ functioned like an atomic explosion. It did well. I am happy that I chose it.”
(Osho, The Discipline of Transcendence, Vol 2, Ch 4, Q 1 (excerpt))
https://www.oshonews.com/2019/08/18/bhagwan-you-all-are/
Then, in April 1981 in Pune, Osho goes into public silence and states that he is entering the ultimate stage of his work.
When he began speaking again:
“There were many people who were just hanging around me because of their intellects were convinced. My arguments were important to them although I was insisting that truth cannot be found by arguments. But they became addicted with my words, with my explanations. These three and half years, by and by they left, seeing that now I am not going to speak and silence they could not understand.
Only those remained for whom it did not matter at all whether I speak or I am silent. Just my presence, and something transpires between my being and their being. It is a wordless communion.”
(Osho: The Last Testament)
“I have found my people and I have to arrange a silent communion, which will help in two ways: those who cannot understand silence will drop out. That will be good. That will be a good weeding; otherwise they will go on clinging around me because of the words, because their intellect feels satisfied. And I am not here to satisfy their intellect. My purpose is far, far deeper, of a different dimension.
So these days of silence have helped those who were just intellectually curious, rationally interested in me, to turn their back. And secondly, it has helped me to find my real, authentic people who are not in need of words to be with me. They can be with me without words. That’s the difference between communication and communion.”
(Osho, The Rajneesh Bible, 1984)
And there were hints back in Pune One that he was already conniving with devices to clear the space:
“There are people who want everything clean, clear-cut,a logical, so that their mind can figure out what it is. This is an illogical place, irrational, absurd. You come with your certain ideas and when those ideas are not fulfilled, you feel baffled, you feel angry, offended. This whole place is being created in such a way that it offends many people, because that is my way to screen those people out. Somebody comes in the gate and, seeing a marble gate, he escapes. So good, so kind of him”.
Because he had come to see an Indian kind of ashram, not a marble gate, his ideas are shattered. He wanted to see people living in poverty, in a kind of spiritual dirtiness. He wanted to see people almost starved, fasting. The marble gate is put there to put these people off. I don’t want them inside.
Small things offend people and they don’t see how small things become barriers. Arup’s mother, Gita, has written a question that she wants her family to become more interested in me, but the only thing that seems to create trouble is my pictures with fantastic hats! That is creating the trouble – so good! Now bring more hats for me, because these are the people I would not like them to be here. I would not like for them to be here because such stupid minds have to be kept out. These minds cannot grow.
In the new commune I am going to make it such that only those who are really daredevils will be able to enter into it. A thousand and one things will prevent them, because those are the people who, even if they come in, they will go out. So why waste time on them? It is better to keep them out, bracket them out.”
(Osho, The Wisdom of the Sands, Vol 2, 1978)
I`m very dubious about this guy Anand Sharma`s take on “Gurdjieff” and the Sufi “timeless wisdom” spiel.
Naqshabandi Sufis?
A men-only club whose identifying feature was/is that they chop the end of their dicks off because they read in a book that a big man in the sky told their great-great-great- great-great-great-grandad to do it.
Sounds like timeless stupidity to me.
When Osho did start speaking on the Ranch, I remember watching the discourses on video as they came out. He was having a go at all the religions, it`s true, but more shocking, in a way, was that he was saying that all those guys he had eulogised in Pune 1 – the Jesuses, the Krishnas and whatnot – weren`t people he agreed with at all and that he had just used them, kind of like glove puppets to say what he wanted to say.
This was a bit radical as up to that point it was all “Bhagawn is on the same level as a Christ, Budddha, Krishna and all the rest.” In fact herein was invested his authority. Now he was saying, “Those guys were rubbish, I am the man, don`t need those losers to back me up. Their stuff is in the dustbin of history.” He wasn`t a company man any more, he was a sole trader. He`d left the band and gone solo.
The last stages of megalomania kicking in and the self-destruct button of the Ranch pressed…or the final device to put religious idiocy to bed for good?
Probably a bit of both.
You’ve got to admit, Frank, he certainly provided an infinity of topics for discussion; even if you’re only endlessly reiterating a complete lack of interest in joining the discussion. Yawn!!!!
Very impressed with the way you manage to combine taking the piss with thoughtful comment.
Excellent post.
Thank you for your response ´take´ on the topic (29 August, 2019 at 10.53 pm), Swamishanti. It´s working in a silent way since I´ve been reading it.
Just wanted to mention that.
Grateful,
Madhu
Glad you enjoyed it.
I recently read a piece on Oshonews from one of the disciples of Swami Yog Chinmaya’s , said to be an enlightened Osho sannyasin who had had his Ashram in Bagheshwar close to Nepal for many years, then later in Goa, where he recently left his body.
“In about 2002, on a rooftop in Munsyari (about 100 km northeast of Bageshwar), he said to Carolyn and me, “Osho is as available today as both a continuous energy and a moment-to-moment guiding intelligence, as he was when he was in the body. It is our receptivity that determines how much we receive.”
(Bodhicitta) .
Well and good, Shanti.
You say, “Yoga Chinmaya, said to be an enlightened Osho sannyasin.” Said by whom, and who said they had the authority to make such a claim?
I have met a handful of Osho sannyasins who were said to be enlightened. I suspect none of them were, except Maitreya, who impressed me with his here and now meditative vibe. Then again, much in his behaviour hinted that his ego was still the driving force behind his actions.
It makes no difference to me. I do not even know if Osho was enlightened, or HWL Poonja. All I know is that both of those remarkable men taught and helped me a lot and that is more than enough for me.
Chinmaya said, “Osho is as available today as both a continuous energy and a moment-to-moment guiding intelligence, as he was when he was in the body. It is our receptivity that determines how much we receive.”
Such statements are open to interpretation on many levels. On a metaphysical level it all comes down to what you believe Osho was. I do not believe for a second that a personality called Osho is operating from some mysterious higher dimension in a way that can affect our lives. I also do not believe for a moment that he would have honestly supported such an idea while alive.
How I see it is that people like Osho are representatives of a benign force, energy, consciousness, love, that works consciously for the betterment of people and mankind in general. Osho was just a name, and God, the whole, cosmic consciousness etc. is way beyond name and form, pulsating, emanating, vibrating, moment to moment. As Chinmaya correctly states, it comes down to our receptivity that determines how much we receive.
The very first time I entered the Poona ashram, on a very hot day in July when few people were around, the first person I met was this Swami Yoga Chinmaya whose gentle meditative vibe impressed me greatly.
He was already familiar to me from photos and comments he’d written for one of Osho’s first books and I recall how he quietly emanated profound love for him when advising me about darshan arrangements, communicating a tangible sense of wonder, mystery and joy when ending by saying “…and then you will meet Bhagwan….”
Quite a start that was…And I’m not too surprised to hear he’s ‘come a long way’ (as it were).
I never knew Chinmaya well, I recognised him from a distance.
Apparently, he was a very esoteric fellow. Reading the different stories from his obituaries I get the impression that he was considered already awakened by several sannyasins when Osho left for the states, and before Osho had left the ashram Chinmaya asked him what should he do now? Osho told him to ‘go home’.
Chinmaya then gathered a few disciples and they lived in an ashram in Pokhara, whilst Osho was in the U.S.
When Osho finally returned to Pune in 1987 he had sent a message to Chinmaya that he did not have much time left in the body and that he should come back to the ashram with his disciples , as they would all benefit from being in his presence.
Some of the accounts from Chinmayas friends and disciples suggest that when they met him later, after Osho had left his body, in his ashram in Bhageshwar, Chinmaya appeared even more luminous than he had been prior.
This could suggest that he had reached a deeper realisation , than whatever plane of consciousness he had realised before his return to Pune.
And Chinmaya was the man who loved asking Osho about the different planes of consciousness and talking about the different types of samadhi and all that stuff. I gather he was very much into kundalini yoga.
When he said that “Osho is as available today as both a continuous energy and a moment-to-moment guiding intelligence, as he was when he was in the body. It is our receptivity that determines how much we receive.”
Actually, I have experienced that to be the case myself, so I know from my own experience.
Actually, that is why I noticed that particular comment, because I have also been experiencing Osho’s presence much more recently and more intensely, and had reached a similar conclusion that it is intelligent, works powerfully, but like you point out, this energy and presence is nothing to do with Osho’s personality or mind.
Rather, his energy is just being ‘used’ as it where by the Whole, Existence, God, whatever you want to call it . The same way it always was.
Although it is the same distinctive fragrance that could be palpable in his physical presence, it is absolutely nothing to do with the man Osho who has dissolved, or the rebellious mind that he carried.
But, ‘it is exactly as he said it would be’ as he said many times in Pune One, USA and in Pune Two. He was well aware that he would still be around to help people once he had dropped the last limitation of the body.
He always said that true enlightenment is a total death and that his Presence was just a vehicle for the Whole, for Consciousness to work through.
Perfectly correct, Shanti!
Clearly, the Nine Unknown Men of Mighty Bhorat are already working their magic through you!
Must be the mushroom season already!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
“I also do not believe for a moment that he would have honestly supported such an idea while alive.”
That’s wrong, Lokesh.
He spoke about that he will be available after his death.
Many people did and do still fall in love with him about his books.
You are not a devotee.
Still working on the koan?
Don’t be lazy!
Osho says…Osho said…
Osho said so much you can always find a relevant quote if you feel you need a bit of back-up for what you are trying to get across. It just means you do not have enough faith in your own words.
Osho’s words are just that: words! Osho also told whoppers. You have to be stupid to believe everything he said.
Even more stupid to believe, or treat as valid everything you say, Lokesh,
Lokesh, maybe some people, even if they have realised who they are, out of immense gratitude still use the name of their guru/teacher. And it is easier to surrender to a guru, in this case Osho, than to this vast unknown force.
Yes, Levina, maybe they do. It all sounds a bit Hindu to me.
To be honest, when push comes to shove I will respect an intelligent person’s viewpoint. As long as nobody is hurting anyone else with their beliefs it is fine by me.
I have watched this ‘surrender your ego at the guru’s feet’ trip for a long time. I bowed down at Osho’s feet many times and was completely sincere in my intentions.
Thing is, of all the yogas, Bhakti is the most suspect. I never saw myself as a devotee, more student or disciple. I always enjoyed to see the Hare Krishnas in Picadily Circus. They were just so total.
The other day a Krishna devotee tried to give me some pamphlets outside the local supermercado. I liked her, she was very sweet. On the other hand, she looked completely undernourished and completely lost.
Whatever gets you through the night, I suppose.
Dear Levina,
(Re 4 September, 2019 at 7:47 am)
Yes.
Without Gratitude (as an ingredient of remembering of ´who we ALL are´, being invited to what you call a “vast unknown force” as our ´home´), remembrance might go into wrong (egotistical) directions: Claiming then this and that, before it´s matured (and manifested)…
Loved it, that you brought Gratitude in, Levina.
Madhu
“Osho is as available today as both a continuous energy and a moment-to-moment guiding intelligence, as he was when he was in the body. It is our receptivity that determines how much we receive.”
I agree with that staement, Shanti, and no amount of head banging and egocentric analysing stops that being so.
Yes indeed. To quote a Miten song,
“That’s the way he said it would be.”
Yes, I agree.
I find that by listening to a few mantras, doing a bit of heavy breathing and lighting some incense, I can easily access the Akashik grid of non-local quantum space and feel Osho`s energy and also Koot Hoomi, Madame Blavatsky, C. W. Meatbeater, Melcheezidick and the spirit of Gurdjieff`s empty Armagnac bottle to help me feel better, like.
These cynics, headbangers and egoists who have still got an ego should shut up because I am really spiritual.
Frank said, “I am really spiritual.”
ROTFLMAO
Frank, quite a very few days ago (30 August, 2019 at 12:14 pm) Arpana addressed you with: “Very impressed with the way, you manage to combine taking the piss with thoughtful comment(s).”
That again impressed me…
We all here, I feel, are much more than less parroting our way in (virtual and mostly quite anonymous!) sharing bits and pieces from our pilgrimage from Here-to-Here, aren’t we?
You are, Frank, not an exception and me neither…
Some of us may have embodied the wisdom of the DAO (the DAO, what cannot be spoken) more – and some less – but we ALL obviously love to meet in the ´caravanserai´, don´t we?
A Pilgrimage for which the Mystic we are in Love with left us (also) innumerable jokes. One I love to pass over to you, Frank, and all today:
“I don´t want your son, Ernie, swimming in our pool anymore”, says Mrs Meyer to her neighbour Mrs Jones.
“But what has my poor little Ernie done”, asks Mrs Jones.
“He´s constantly peeing in the pool”, says Mrs Meyer angrily.
“Don´t be so hard on him”, says Mrs Jones, ” =all children of his age do that.”
“Maybe they do”, says Mrs Meyer, “but not from the diving board.”
I love to parrot this joke as it truly uplifted my smile for the day this sunny morning (as long as it´s lasting…by grace..).
(And will spare you all the cockcroach’s other joke-versions, I found).
Have a beautiful day, all of you contributors and you too, Frank.
Madhu
MOD:
Who’s the “cockroach” (near the end), Madhu?!
Thanks for the joke, Madhu,
My view of jokes is something like that jokes are to humour what the missionary position is to sex.
Have a nice day.
“Osho is as available today as both a continuous energy and a moment-to-moment guiding intelligence, as he was when he was in the body. It is our receptivity that determines how much we receive.”
I think & feel this was said regarding a seeker/sannyasin who is in their initial struggling days!
Speaking personally, the early days were easy, and just got harder and harder, then took a few years to settle after that, and the sense of connection to Osho during difficult times continues to be helpful.
Somehow, for me, the initial sannyas days missed the real physical presence, perhaps due to not being in Osho’s physical presence.
Later [about eleven years ago] I realized and remembered [a dear friend Hansa Ma had told me during those early days] that he is not the body.
Now the subtlest dependency perhaps is sharing here on SN, which of course is conscious & choiceless, if i may say so.
No, I don’t think it was said in that sense, Kavita, I think that Chinmaya is like several other sannyasin who have claimed enlightenment, who still are sensed by some of those around them to have an inner connection to Osho.
If you read some of the other tributes left by some of the people who spent time with Chinmaya, one of them remembers an occasion when he had asked Chinmaya something like “how close are you to Osho?” and the reply from Chinmaya was that “there is no distance at all”, or something along those lines.
I met a guy once who said that he had met a guy who said that someone he knew was very connected to Osho.
If there was no distance, then he was also Bhagwan, the blessed one.
“No, I don’t think it was said in that sense, Kavita, I think that Chinmaya is like several other sannyasins who have claimed enlightenment, who still are sensed by some of those around them to have an inner connection to Osho.”
SS, exactly it was said for some of those!
Twenty-one years back, during our travel, my mother & I with a sannyasin family were with him in his Bageshwar commune & by chance it happened to be Guru Pornima day; he seemed quite normal/human to me.
He asked about my sannyas journey then we all had lunch with him. Later,as we all sat in the open space surrounded by trees, he shared chikoos with all of us from one those trees.
Sorry, Kavita, I don’t understand if you mean it was exactly like you meant it or how I meant it.
Or perhaps both?
SS, both.
Yes, Mr G did ask for large sums of money from his pupils. The difference between Mr G and Osho on that level is that on some occasions he gave the money back to his student. Osho never did that.
Yes, that is a good point. I don’t know if he did give all the money back to all of them though. However, G was working on a very small scale in comparison with Osho who, as this Sharma guy points out, had accumulated a huge amount of people…quarter of a million by that stage.
He did give his expensive watches away to his commune when he was deported from the U.S., put them on a podium in the Rajneesh mandir and sent a message that “this is your airfares to India.”
He could have given the cars away. This would have been the ethical thing to do. But then if you think about it, if he had just given those cars away to charity, all the people that would have been put off by the cars would have just returned to him again. A device has to work for it to be effective.
This remark is actually about your own neurotic attitude to money, possessions and being right, Lokesh.
“Beloved Osho,
There have been several questions concerning what you were saying about warriors and businessmen. Since most of us were businessman and professionals, and not warriors, are we going to miss enlightenment?
”To be a warrior doesn’t mean to be a soldier, it is a quality of the mind. You can be a businessman and be a warrior; you can be a warrior and be a businessman.
“Businessman” means a quality of the mind which is always bargaining, trying to give less and get more. That’s what I mean when I say businessman: trying to give less and get more, always bargaining, always thinking about profit. A warrior is again a quality of the mind, the quality of the gambler, not of the bargainer, the quality which can stake everything this way or that — a non-compromising mind.
If a businessman thinks of enlightenment, he thinks of it as a commodity like many other commodities. He has a list: he has to make a big palace, he has to purchase this and that, and in the end he has to purchase enlightenment also; but enlightenment is always the last — when everything is done, then; when nothing remains to be done, then. And that enlightenment is also to be purchased because he understands only money.
It happened that a great and rich man came to Mahavira. He was really very rich; he could purchase anything, even kingdoms. Even kings borrowed money from him.
He came to Mahavira and he said, “I have been hearing so much about meditation, dhyan, and during the time you have been here you have created a craze in people; everybody is talking about dhyan. What is dhyan? How much does it cost and can I purchase it?”
Mahavira hesitated, so the man said, “Don’t you think about the cost at all. You simply say and I will pay; there is no problem about it.”
How to talk to this man? — Mahavira was at a loss as to what to say to him. Finally Mahavira said, “You go. In your town there is a man, a very poor man; he may be willing to sell his dhyan. He has achieved, and he is so poor that he may be ready to sell it.”
The man thanked Mahavira, rushed to the poor man, knocked on his door and said, “How much do you want for your dhyan? I want to purchase your meditation.”
The man started laughing. He said, “You can purchase me, that’s okay. But how can I give you my dhyan? It is a quality of my being, it is not a commodity.”
But businessmen have always been thinking in this way. They donate to purchase, they create temples to purchase. They give but their giving is never a giving; it is always to get something, it is an investment.
When I say to you to be a warrior, I mean to be a gambler, to put everything at stake. Then enlightenment becomes a question of life and death, not a commodity, and you are ready to throw away everything for it. And you are not thinking about the profit.
People come to me and they ask, “What will we gain out of meditation? What is the purpose of it? What will be the profit out of it? If one hour is devoted to meditation what will be the gain?” Their whole life is economy.”
Osho
A Bird on the Wing
Chapter 7: The Severe Teacher
There you go again, Arpana. Right off the mark you want to get on my case instead of actually responding to the thread.
‘STUCK.’
Thanks for noticing, Lokesh. Your indifference is so uplifting.
Dear Arpana,
Would you be so kind to give specific examples of Lokesh’s neurotic attitude to money, posessions and being right?
Levina,
I’m exploring an aspect of myself. If old Lokesh is what he thinks he is, this won’t bother him, but as he isn’t, it does.
You haven’t really answered my question, Arpana.
Spiritualist Materialist is his legacy, the first person to lead this vision with action on a global scale. Rest is all but periphery.
The article by Anand Sharma does not come up very openly with the topic of legacy as it shyly defends an action on periphery.
Ritvik, you do have a point and I think there are several aspects to the Rolls Royce collection, which Sharma misses in his post. I agree with him that it was one of his devices to help clear away certain people who were just following him, and there were many who had put him on a pedestal but had no real spiritual connection to him.
I mean they may have felt it if he touched their third eye in darshan but when he went in silence and stopped doing this, plus other crazy behaviour such as the huge collection of the same expensive car over and over, or his decision to publish a book of himself under the influence of huge quantities of nitrous oxide, which he had originally intended to be published complete with photos of himself in the dental chair with the tubes up his nose (the book was eventually published but without those photos). That book would have shocked a lot of sannyasins and would have prompted some to leave. Which is exactly what he intended.
But the device was multi-dimensional. Yes, as you mention, he was just making it plain and clear that you can get enlightened and you don’t have to be very poor or a beggar and walk around naked wearing one of those silly nappies like Ramana Maharishi did, unless you want to.
You can have your cake and eat it. He wanted to smash people’s expectations of how an enlightened man should behave. Many people can’t handle that one. If Osho had given all the Rollers away to charity and gone back to his simple white robe, you would find today that he was highly respectable to many of those who despise him and prefer the aethertic ideal of the enlightened man living in poverty. But those are usually people with simple types of minds.
The other major aspect here: humour. Osho couldn’t resist doing this thing with the cars and for many it is a brilliant touch of humour.
Especially when so many people today cannot see past the cars and think that Osho was just interested in accumulating wealth.
America has a pandemic of obesity, you will see a vast amount of Americans who are overweight, they are eating too much, they have too many cars. Osho created a spoof of this capitalist consumerism, and even today many Americans can not see the reflection of themselves in Osho. What they see in Osho is a greedy man, accumulating too much wealth. A con. Was he hypnotising his followers so he could get all of that wealth?
And is it amusing to see just how bad Osho and Rajneeshpuram looks to many simple Americans. Of course, if he had just kept the white robe and the bald head, and given beautiful talks on Christ and Buddhism, they would have thought he was great. But this shows that they cannot understand the transmission that was going on underground.
I need to correct myself here.
Anand Sharma has nothing to do with the answer, while his part is taken as response to thr question “What legacy did Osho leave behind?” while he answers for “What led to downfall of Osho?”
The person who starts the discussion is first requested to clear the doubt, by thinking about it, if there was indeed any legacy left behind or not.
If yes, then there was no downfall, why look for an answer over there?
And then we may look into what the legacy is.
If no, then there was downfall. Then no question of legacy.
Either accept downfall or accept legacy. I ask you to pick one, and then one can have a look.
Ritvik, it’s not too complicated, is it? Anand Sharma argues strongly that there was no “downfall”, that Osho, far from ‘failing’, did great work and remains an inspiration for whoever comes to him. The point of the topic is to discern exactly what he’s left behind for us – or even to disagree that any such legacy exists.
I experience Osho much as I always have, but I have changed; and arguably, at the beginning was something of a ‘child/parent’ relationship, but now ‘adult/adult’.
And he still makes remarks that trigger insights, which happened this morning when he said something that made me aware of how I put people on a pedestal when younger, and the impact that had on my life, which I stopped doing years ago, and without realising I had. (Well, maybe Bill Masterson who wrote ‘Calvin and Hobbes’).
Had so many hang-ups when I came to Sannyas, along with a huge social circle (had nearly 200 people at my 30th birthday party, all of whom I invited personally).
Over the years, as the hang-ups have evaporated, so too the connections to that huge social circle have melted away; and I am sobered, at this moment, to think that my connections to so many of those people before Sannyas was so much to do with my hang-ups; and that without the hang-ups I wouldn’t have had many of the connections.
Osho’s legacy and the pooled collective experience of having met him and been involved with him is vast, but obviously not seen, obviously invisible; because success as a sannyasin is about what is not, mostly, rather than what is.
Osho’s legacy is as much to do with what we don’t individually and collectively do anymore, and mostly what we do is ordinary, a whisper rather than a roar, but enacted consciously and privately and invisibly, individually.
Great post, Arps, to my mind possibly the best one you’ve ever done.
Thanks, SD.
This article by Anand Sharma, to me, does show that there are individuals who do exist probably without any experince of a living master or His physical commune.
While going through the Quora post I saw that this was one of the intresting replies to a question. If any of you who didn’t come across this, it’s here:
https://www.quora.com/What-led-to-the-downfall-of-Osho
Lokesh, what a prolific writer you are. If I were your teacher I would recommend you for a lifelong free scholarship!
Hi Kavita. Sweet.
I share Anand Sharma’s answer to the question, “What Led to the Downfall of Osho?”.
After he spoke about material aspects, such as RRs, with the right perspective, placing them on the periphery, he also speaks of spiritual legacy, as Osho’s “trying to spread consciousness and meditation around the earth”.
In communion with the master all the talk about his legacy is implicit in the words “consciousness” and “meditation”, but if you want to be redundant and superfluous you can write for years, a sound of minds at work very far from the core of His witnessing.
Satyadeva, I don’t understand,and I’m a bit disappointed that you’ve come again with the topic that has been so much regurgitated by the mind that it has become a regurgitation about a regurgitation!
Osho was my first (most important) teacher, the legacy he had for me is that he touched me to the core and guided me in my first baby steps into the unknown, and I’m forever grateful for that! All the rest is mindfuck!
Levina, if you don’t like Satyadeva’s reframing you could comment on what Anand Sharma says.
However, thanks to this trick he has succeeded in making you contribute to the great mind-fuck game in which you love to wallow.
Ok, Levina, although there’s been some interesting responses so far, I think.
But SN is always in need of suggestions for new topics so please feel free to send in any that occur to you, or even contribute one or two yourself if you wish. (Same goes for anyone else of course).
People still discuss the Battle of Hastings. Discuss the Beatles songs. Sometimes appears it’s ok to discuss anything here, but not what Osho said or did, or what happened around him.
Just working on an article based on the question, ‘Why is witnessing an incomplete teaching?’ It’s a subject that I find interesting and relevant, seeing as how witnessing was central to Osho’s teaching. Trying to get it into coherent and communicable language is the challenge. Will send it to you in the coming days once it runs smoothly.
I find the current topic very worn out subject matter, especially on SN. But I do understand, SD, you are doing your best and thanks for that.
Lokesh,
Don’t you think you ought to get in a bit of practice of witnessing on yourself, before you start preaching about the method?
Looking forward to reading your insights into witnessing, Lokesh. It would be awesome to know your practical experience and you surely have had a lot to share.
Osho was asked several times about ten commandments he would give to humanity. He laughed and said that it would be non-commandments or a few requests for sannyasins to follow, because commandments sound humiliating to free people. I have found three different versions of those ten rules and one version consisting of just one single rule. It’s not his legacy, just the message he was conveying to us, seekers.
Version 1
“The first: freedom.
The second: uniqueness of individuality.
The third: love.
The fourth: meditation.
The fifth: non-seriousness.
The sixth: playfulness.
The seventh: creativity.
The eighth: sensitivity.
The ninth: gratefulness.
Tenth: a feeling of the mysterious.
These ten non-commandments constitute my basic attitude towards reality, towards man’s freedom from all kinds of spiritual slavery.”
Version 2
“You ask for my ten commandments. This is very difficult because I am against any sort of commandment. Yet just for the fun of it I set down what follows:
1. Obey no orders except those from within.
2. The only God is life itself.
3. Truth is within, do not look for it elsewhere.
4. Love is prayer.
5. Emptiness is the door to truth, it is the means, the end and the achievement.
6. Life is here and now.
7. Live fully awake.
8. Do not swim, float.
9. Die each moment so that you are renewed each moment.
10.Stop seeking. That which is, is: STOP AND SEE.”
Version 3
“You ask me, have I any commandments for you?
First: The very word commandment, to me, is ugly.
I can say to you authoritatively what my experience is, but I cannot be authoritative with you… I can request you, I can invite you, to share with me my experience. I can become the host for you and you can be the guest. It is an invitation, a welcome — but it is not a commandment.
My first request or invitation is: Don’t let your doubt die.
That is the most precious thing you have got, because it is doubt that one day is going to help you discover the truth.
My second request: Never imitate.
So the third thing is to beware of knowledge, to be so alert that whenever you want, you can put your knowledge aside and it will not block your vision…
The fourth thing…I will not say “pray” because there is no God to pray to… My word for prayer is love. Forget the word prayer, replace it with love.
The fifth thing I would like to say to you: Live moment to moment. Go on dying every moment to the past.
The sixth request: All the religions of the world, without exception, have given man ideals which are superhuman. They satisfy the ego. You would like to be a superhuman being, but you are meant only to be a human being.
So my seventh request is: Be just an authentic human being.
So the seventh request, remember: Accept your humanity with joy, as a gift of existence — not that you are expelled from the Garden of Eden, not that it is a punishment, not that you have to repent…
My eighth request to you is: Do not fight with your body.
It is not your foe, it is your friend. It is a gift of nature to you. It is part of nature…
My ninth request…
I would like you to remember: Live, and try to know what life is.
Don’t be bothered about death, heaven and hell, and this goddammed God.
I think I made a mistake yesterday. I counted it wrong.
Okay, that’s great, so let us go on.
Ninth: Be creative…
And the last, whatsoever the number because now I cannot bother about the numbers. I myself have forgotten, but I have to say the last, so it is complete. Numbers, you can figure out.
The last is my most precious request to you, and that is: In existence the most extraordinary thing is to be ordinary….
To me, the ordinary is the most extraordinary phenomenon in existence.”
Then Version 4, which to me, encompasses and surpasses all the above.
“I don’t give you ten commandments, I give you only one commandment: Be aware — and all else follows of its own accord.
When morality comes following you like a shadow, it has a beauty, tremendous beauty of its own.
So no need for thirty-three thousand rules, only two rules, only two commandments, not even ten commandments; and in fact not two, it is really one commandment. The other is just its negative part. Act in awareness, that’s all, and whatsoever you do is good because out of awareness nothing wrong can ever happen. And it’s other side is: out of unconsciousness nothing right can ever happen.”
Thank you, Jivan Alok!
Yes, thank you, Jivan Alok, for taking the effort to share with us some of the manifold aspects of rememberance in gerneral and re the topic given.
The word ‘legacy´, like the word ´heritage´, is kind of difficult for me to use. As consciousness itself is LIVING stuff, changing moment to moment.
Best I could relate to the topic and Sharma´s expression with:
“The energy that came through him was consistently transformative and powerful throughout his lifetime, and it is still available to help people.”
Knowing though that I´m sometimes available re ´remembrance´ of the present moment, sometimes not. Often getting lost indulging then in pain-body issues as well as in (only) seemingly opposite fantasies of having reached ´somewhere. Then help to sort out and dissolve (especially in a viral Chat) comes from my own remembrance or that of somebody else who took the effort to share his own.
Such is for me a ‘Sangha’ feeling.
And I sense Satyadeva (was) is right when stating that quite some valuable responses have been, caravanserai-like, coming on the screen.
And thank you all also for THIS.
Madhu
Dear MODs, thank you for your moderation..it was needed.
Just one request: It should read “Often getting lost indulging then in pain-body issues as well as in (only) seemingly opposite fantasies of having reached ´somewhere…`”
You know, why I insist? Because quite often I remember Yoga Sudha (from the therapists’ lounge) smiling at me saying, “Aaah, a ‘bliss-attack’ (again), Madhu?”
She was a very loving companion, never cynical.
Sometimes, you know, it’s difficult, not to write in my mother-tongue.
Thanks.
For me, and I know for many, or perhaps all fellow-travellers, one of the ‘legacies’ (or at least ‘by-products’) of Osho has been coming across and getting to know, on varying levels, some amazing people, Ma Yoga Sudha certainly being one.
I can well picture her from your anecdote, Madhu, she was quite something, wasn’t she? A huge influence in my early days of Sannyas and before, in one-to-one and group therapy in London, introducing me to dynamic meditation to “get through your blocks”.
By chance I met her at Cairo airport en route to Poona for the first time, she on her way home with a friend. She asked me, “Why are you going to Poona?” Surprised, I fumbled for an answer and replied, “To see Bhagwan.” (True enough, although my main motivation was to ‘get high’ on freaking out and dancing etc.).
Then she asked if I wanted to do dynamic meditation with her and her friend in the airport hotel room where they were due to stay! I couldn’t imagine we could get away with that and pictured a claustrophobic situation with ‘noise problems’ so I declined.
Next time I saw her was at the Ranch when, among thousands at the end of a gathering in front of Osho I found her sitting right behind me as I got up to hurry to the road to see him drive past. Strange synchronicity! But I was too intent on seeing Osho at close quarters to stop and although I tried to find her later she seemed elusive and it didn’t happen.
Madhu,
Yes, Namaste!
After 48 hours, my internet connection has returned.
This post is really invigorating, thank you _/\_ Jivan Alok. Such a reminder is always illuminating to even the blind!
“‘Why is witnessing an incomplete teaching?’” (Lokesh)
Yes, Osho spoke much on the witness and also on going beyond the witness. Osho did this through commentary in discourses, through guiding us in meditation, and through parables. Witnessing was central to Osho’s teachings, but so was dropping the witness. I hope you give Osho credit where credit is due, Lokesh, when it comes to the dissolution of the witness. That was also central to Osho’s teaching.
“You can just be empty and that is the discourse. BEING is the discourse. Emptiness can never become an object of thought, thoughtlessness is its nature. So the gods said, “You have not said anything and we have not heard. That is the beauty of it! That’s why we are praising you. Rarely does it happen that somebody is simply empty. This is true emptiness” – and he was not even aware that it was emptiness, because if you are aware, something foreign has entered into it: you are divided, you are split.
When one is really empty, there is nothing other than emptiness, not even the awareness of emptiness. Not even the witness is there. One is perfectly alert, one is not asleep – but the witness is not there. It goes beyond witnessing, because whenever you witness something there is a slight tension inside, a subtle effort, and then emptiness is something else and you are something else. You witness it, you are not empty; then emptiness is again just a thought in the mind.”
Osho, ‘And The Flowers Showered’ (Chapter 1)
What, a borrowed material to discuss Osho´s legacy? Article itself shows how deeply Neo-Sannyas has gone into oblivion when at Quora some Anand Sharma discusses the issue and sannyasnews reposts it.
Let me give some information about the surname Sharma. They are the brahmins, the pundits who have lived for centuries on the interpretation of religious texts.
In India, where Osho movement is flourishing in the crowded market, Sharma kind of people have got complete foothold in sannyas matters.
Thanks to Osho texts, people who were priests have adopted a new title, master, sadguru, Acharya. Surely escorts are not prostitutes!
Surely the legacy of inspirational author and orator late Shri Osho Jain will remain alive as long as youtube exists.
I wonder why people have forgotten Master. Why the disciples have no sense of remorse when they are reduced into patrons and customers.
Shantam, Anand Sharma was responding to an earlier claim about “Osho’s downfall” so I don’t see how that or reposting his response indicates “how deeply Neo-Sannyas has gone into oblivion”.
Neither do I see how bleating about the proliferation of new Indian pundits and gurus ‘riding on Oaho’s back’, as it were, supports such a claim. That was always going to happen and besides, there’s plenty of genuine Osho stuff alive in India (and elsewhere), isn’t there?
I also fail to see that “people have forgotten Master”, as you put it (last parag.). Perhaps your personal version of Sannyas, seemingly largely confined to what went on at Koregaon Park three-plus decades ago, is no more. But you’re stuck in seemingly endless, resentful mourning, feeling yourself “reduced”, as if “gone into oblivion”, due to the personal circumstances you yourself have created.
Why can’t you see that?
Shantam, if Sharma is a virtual brahmin, you are a verbal-kshatriya!
Follower of Zorba The Buddha project is going for daily wage work at Entertainment Park.
God Bless Indian Spiritual Industry and its flagship firm!
Let legacy of great words continue and flourish.
And God Bless You, sir, may your own unique Legacy of Great Words flourish for All Time and even Beyond Time!
And God Bless Coca Cola, Burgers and Chips and all who serve Them!
Perfectly correct!
It is certainly a great device by Master from beyond the grave that he has placed advanced disciple Shantambhai in position to fulfil legacy by working in world-famous resort frequented by Germans!
Existence is showing acute sense of karmic timing!
More seriously, in the rarefied occult circles that Swami Bhorat and myself frequent, rumour has it that the Nine Unknown Men of Mighty Bhorat are behind this and have been pulling strings behind the scenes including in German dole-office!
The Nine Men are desperate to make amends for the last time that they tried to promote a nonsense-spouting idiot by using state-of-the-art tech, lightshows and mass entertainment for huge crowds in Germany in order to create world peace – it all went horribly wrong!
They are expecting in this project that serving chips and beer to the masses all day in Europa Park and eating burgers and drinking soft-drinks all day will eventually erode few remaining vestiges of functionality in Shantam`s brain and induce state of total no-mind thereby facilitating yawning space into which Osho Maitreya the Buddha can descend!
Let us pray for success!
Osho`s legacy is dependent on it!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Couldn´t have been ´specified´ as a conclusion more accurately, Anand Yogi, at least on this level, you are so inclined to use for communication (here)!
The end of a day, which started beautiful:
You posted your insights of this and that, when I left the house for a long walk with Andrea, a former sannyasin, being harrassed at the end of the walk by a pervert and sadist stalking psychopath. Yesterday he stalked with a big fat cigar in his mouth.
Today – late afternoon, he prefered to come out of the bushes with an indeed accurate timing and thourougly enjoyed my freak out about this and organized testimonials to the latter (the freak-out).
So – this is prose, Anand Yogi!
Guess you enjoy that too?
Amends?
Not for a woman if it is mafia and fascist structure happening!
I´m personally sorry (the least to say) that you may enjoy that (report of mine) too, as the realms you are inhabiting in this Chat are so beyond everyday-like atrocities, aren´t they?
Today is a memorial day dealing with the German fascism going into WWII (the Poland Attack).
And it´s a memorial day too for the fact that there have been also Germans who were deported as well as Jews into concentration camps, to be annihilated (killed via medicine etc. and other ´experiments´).
Interested to get that info into your brain?
Most obnoxiously amazing (and horrifying) is – that – and how young generations in Europe and elsewhere (the British included, btw, and equipped in Digital Age with the new technical means to find ways to re-live the past like cannibals of the new century…looking for scapegoats as entertainment.
Business is business, Anand Yogi, isn´t it?.
And your way of talking under this name is business too!
That´s not funny! To stir up a pot here THIS way!
Madhu
P.S:
Stupidity HURTS and scrupulousness combined with stupidity HURTS even more!
Wonder if you care about such……………?
As a Human Being?
And – Anand Yogi, spare me any further cynical comment! Camouflaged with obnoxious ´occultism’!
Enough is enough!
It is long overdue, I wish to type my version, ‘What I mean by Osho´s legacy and how it has been squandered by His close followers.’
Before I start this, maybe some fellow-bloggers can shed the light on ‘What is the legacy of Michael Jackson, Lady Diana or Steve Jobs?’
It will help me to understand vernacular meaning of ‘Legacy’.
Shantam,
If you don`t even know what the word means, how can you know that it has been squandered?
“Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent.” (Wittgenstein)
Osho’s Legacy (I was reading this very small anecdote a moment ago, and I love it):
“Just the other day I was reading a very small anecdote, and I love it.
A father is sitting in his garden and his small child is playing — trying to pull up a rock which is too big for him. It is almost impossible. He is trying hard, and in every way possible from this side and that. He is puffing and breathing hard but he is still trying and perspiring.
The child feels frustrated and tired and sits on the rock. The father says, “Have you tried all your strength?” And the child says, “Yes, certainly I have tried all my strength.’ The father says, “No, because you have not asked me.”
I loved it…because that is also part of the child’s strength.
So start asking me when you feel sad. Just don’t go on pulling on the rock. Sometimes it will be too heavy and you may not be able to pull it up.
It is part of your strength to ask me. That is my whole function in being here.”
Osho
The Cypress in the Courtyard
Chapter 7
What shall be Osho’s legacy?
It’s the same legacy that happened to Masters before Osho and will happen to Masters coming in the future:
The transmission of the Light.
Osho has no legacy of his own. How can he have?
He disappeared long into Existence.
It’s the legacy of Existence.
The transmission of the light will not happen if someone has a broken element in their light bulb.
Is it so, bro?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSIVgEPdR44
I think so, Satchit.
The author of the following article suffered terribly from “light bulb” problems but as we know, part of Osho’s genius (and legacy) was to devise active meditation methods which can have profound therapeutic benefits and which might well have enabled this man to have effected an even more thorough self-transformation, probably in a considerably shorter time:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/sep/02/meditation-helped-me-drag-myself-out-of-self-loathing-and-failure
Yes, I have heard that meditation helps against depression.
But to be honest, I am not a friend of positive thinking. A broken light bulb can be more alive than a perfect one.
I’m not advocating positive thinking, Satchit (although that surely produces better resu;lts than dwelling on the negative).
But your response suggests you have no personal experience of depression or any other mental/emotional disorder, and if so then you’re hardly qualified to judge.
In the article he says:
“Staying positive is like going to the gym” whatever that means.
I did not see where I did judge. Or is it already judging for you when I say I am not not a friend of positive thinking?
Seems you have a strong experience of depression?
No, I have not.
But qualified, I am.
Depends what you mean by “broken light bulb’ I suppose. Perhaps we mean different things.
But if it’s so good, so “alive”, then why bother struggling to be ‘repaired’, to be a fully functioning one? (If you see what I mean!).
Yes, SD, we mean different things. Can easily happen in this word-jungle.
You mean it therapeutically, I mean it more poetically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fhhOZNYCY
….
Guru Satchit says, “A broken light bulb can be more alive than a perfect one.’
Only one who has attained the ultimate truth could understand this.
Me? I have not a clue what Satchit is talking about. Satchit, can you please explain to the unenlightened how on earth can a broken light bulb be more alive than one that is working perfectly? I ask because in the 3D world if a light bulb is broken it is sometimes referred to as ‘dead’.
Don`t forget this excellent resource for this kind of thing:
https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
Poe’s Law states:[1]
“”Without a clear indication of the author’s intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism.
It is an observation that it’s difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between parodies of fundamentalism or other absurd beliefs and their genuine proponents, since they both seem equally insane. For example, some conservatives consider noted homophobe Fred Phelps to have been so over-the-top that they argue he was a “deep cover liberal” trying to discredit more mainstream homophobes. This conspiracy theory of sorts is either supported or refuted, depending on your point of view, by the fact that he ran for office in five Kansas Democratic primary elections. He never won.[2]
Poe’s law applies not only to the absurdity of beliefs, but also to the absurdity of the arguments that are used on behalf of those beliefs. Arguments on behalf of young-Earth creationism and theodicy are especially known for their absurdity. The quintessential Poe’s law argument is an argument on behalf of theodicy, which goes: “Who are we/you [mere humans] to question the motives of the almighty?”. The absurd simple and obvious non-sequitur and circular logic therein (that God is good because he is the god) gives one the impression that that argument is intended as a humorous parody of Christians, but in fact that argument was made by a few actual insane Christians.
It is important to note that: linking a claim to Poe’s Law is not the same as suggesting that said claim is in fact any type of parody at all. On the contrary, linking to Poe’s Law just means that you could not tell if said claim was parody, or indeed sincerely held crankiness — assuming the original claimant didn’t decide to also supply a clear indication of intent. When one is presented with a claim that is so over-the-top as to either be a brilliant parody or reflect a genuinely outrageous extremist belief, Poe’s Law has been invoked.
If Deepak Chopra is in it I am definitely investing in broken light bulbs. A bright idea. All part of the neo sannyas element.
How long does it take Shantam to screw in a light bulb?
I don’t know, I left after the first hour and a half.
How many Catholic sannyasins does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, they just let it burn out and exchange Osho quotes for a few decades.
Loco, this sentence is a koan especially for you.
So meditate strongly over it and soon your inner light bulb will start burning!
Transmission of light from Guru Satchit.
This is…
Erm…
Then again, it could be that an answer to what is Michael Jackson`s legacy could be helpful here.
After all, MJ had his own ranch, his own doctors supplying him gear, career peaked in the 80s, wore 80s style shoulder pads and had a load of brothers who looked like him.
On a more serious note, the “legacy” would be something like that people listen and watch MJ`s music on vids, dig some of the riffs and dance moves, maybe incorporate some of it if they are musicians or dancers themselves.
These types of people probably won`t be interested in the legal legacy or the scandals, they are more relating to the parts of him that are inspiring or interesting.
They will hold the “legacy” in the sense that their music will carry some of the soul and flavour of the original artist with them in their endeavours, whatever they may be.
I guess in this scheme, if MJ was Osho then James Brown would be Gurdjieff.
Hit it Beelzebub…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCq_juFqcyY
…..I feel good!
Jamie Oliver
40 million books sold worldwide.
Jamie is Bhagwan Osho of cooking world.
or O is Jamie of pop spirituality?
Are books the legacy?
Yes, if you are an author.
MOD, I was getting this message, “Error in establishing a database” since yesterday morning until few hours ago. Any idea about this?
MOD:
Yes, Kavita, a web-host upgrade took place yesterday (and, it seems, through the night until this morning, UK time) which closed down its clients. Although this was a surprise to us as they’d informed us that it would happen today and tomorrow until 8am.