Yuletide, New Year, Easter, Diwali, Yom Kippur, Eid and so on…

Why does man use excuses for Celebration, when homo sapiens should be celebrating every day that the sun rises ?

Osho comments:   Celebration Cannot Be According to the Calendar

 
“Have you ever thought about why, all over the world, in every culture, in every society, there are a few days in the year for celebration?  These few days for celebration are just a compensation – because these societies have taken away all celebration in your life, and if nothing is given to you in compensation, your life can become a danger to the culture. Every culture has to give some compensation to you so that you don’t feel completely lost in misery, in sadness. But these compensations are false.
“These firecrackers outside and these lights outside cannot make you rejoice. They are only for children; for you, they are just a nuisance. But in your inner world there can be a continuity of lights, songs, joys. Always remember that society compensates you when it feels that the repressed may explode into a dangerous situation if it is not compensated. Society finds some way of allowing you to let out the repressed. But this is not true celebration, and it cannot be true.
“True celebration should come from your life, in your life. And true celebration cannot be according to the calendar, that on the first of November you will celebrate. Strange, the whole year you are miserable and on the first of November suddenly you come out of misery, dancing. Either, the misery is false, or the first of November is false; both cannot be true. And once the first of November has gone, you are back in your dark hole, everybody in his misery, everybody in his anxiety.
“Life should be a continual celebration, a festival of lights the whole year round. Only then can you grow up, can you blossom.”

 

 

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63 Responses to Yuletide, New Year, Easter, Diwali, Yom Kippur, Eid and so on…

  1. Arpana says:

    Hard for me to conceive of a life without highs and lows, across a spectrum; and I say this as someone who no longer makes such an issue about wanting highs all the time, or is scared of, avoids lows. (I can still get high, but don’t get corresponding lows in the same way, and I’m not talking substance abuse).

  2. Lokesh says:

    Not the most inspirational of Osho quotes by a long shot. Osho liked to rail up against something to get the word motor running, but here he is stretching it with some real warped logic.

    If he really believed this nonsense then why bother to hold celebration days in his ashram? Perhaps because they were entirely to do with him.

    In Spain there is a fiesta almost every week, if not national then a celebration for some local patron saint. At times it is a nuisance. You need something from a shop and everything is closed. The rest of the time it is business as usual. I must say that the local populace are generally pretty happy and it does not fit with Osho’s negative take, running so: “You are back in your dark hole, everybody in his misery, everybody in his anxiety.”

    As far as Spain goes, that is absolute bullshit. Perhaps that is why I live in Spain, because everyone wants to make the best of today. This can also be a pest if you have a plumbing problem. The friendly Spanish plumber will tell you he will be round to fix it manana. Manana sometimes turns out to be a month later.

    I do not think that Osho was very much in touch with working-class realities. Working people love their holidays and need something to look forward to, because manual labour can be mundane, routine and boring, but I sure am glad there is a helpful mechanic up the road to fix my car when I need it. He is a very positive guy and really enjoys his work…oh yeah, he also makes good money. Everyone enjoys making money.

    Osho continues, “Strange, the whole year you are miserable and on the first of November suddenly you come out of misery, dancing.” That is a very negative viewpoint. I really do not know anyone who actually lives like that. Do you?

    This sounds to me like playing the tune to suit the caller and just wanting to put it all in a convenient framework in order to promote the ‘Life is a celebration’ number, which was all the rage at the time these words were said. If you found your head nodding in agreement to Osho’s above words then perhaps it might be time to admit to yourself that in all probability you are really stupid.

  3. Arpana says:

    Good old Lokesh. Can always be relied upon to say something ‘nego’ about Osho, and big himself up in the process.
    What a champ, or do I mean chump?!

  4. anand yogi says:

    Perfectly correct, Osho!
    Fucking aboot is for life,
    not just for Xmas!

    Yahoo!

  5. shantam prem says:

    Bookworm disciples, most of them westerns, are hell-bent to prove Osho was a master of words, a philosopher who never walked His Talk.

    An intelligent person will look more at the actions of the master than the oratorical answers giving in certain context to certain kind of people.

    ]Was it Holy Ghost who pushed Bhagwan Shree to start His own birthday festival, His own Enlightenment Day festival and to dedicate 8th September to the memory of His father as Great Liberation Day?

    I know someone will say, it was Laxmi´s Idea, it was Sheela’s, Meena’s, Teena’s, Bina´s idea? Such person should think was there Osho a toddler, a little prince who became the king, therefore has to sign only the ideas of his ministers?

    • satyadeva says:

      Since you’re apparently so obsessed with formal celebration days, Shantam, perhaps the following might be worth reflecting upon and seeing whether anything might apply to you…

      “Have you ever thought about why, all over the world, in every culture, in every society, there are a few days in the year for celebration? These few days for celebration are just a compensation…

      Every culture has to give some compensation to you so that you don’t feel completely lost in misery, in sadness. But these compensations are false.

      Life should be a continual celebration, a festival of lights the whole year round. Only then can you grow up, can you blossom.”

      • shantam prem says:

        I care shit about wise-sounding words. They are porn of different kind. I care about the walks of the masters, the walks of even those masters who were not good wordsmiths.

        Osho created festivals. Point. If someone don’t like can choose another type or become his own master.

        • satyadeva says:

          Shantam, it seems you’re more interested in the icing on the cake than the cake itself. In fact, you seem to want the icing before your personal cake’s even been made.

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam says, “An intelligent person will look more at the actions of the master than the oratorical answers giving in certain context to certain kind of people.”

      Of course they will. Osho talked a great deal and some of it, like the above quote, really was/is not worth repeating. He said a lot of great things also. Osho’s words were, once upon a time, important to me, but not nearly as important as being in his energy field. End of story. You either understand it or you do not.

    • Ashok says:

      “An intelligent person will look more at the actions of the master than the oratorical answers giving in certain context to certain people.”

      Spot on, Shanty, me lad! Glad to see you’re not takin’ any nonsense from that ‘Osho Salvation Army’ crew! Recitin’ long windy
      passages from their version of the ‘Word of the Lord’ to you – who do they think they are? ‘Bout time they learnt how think for themselves!

      For good measure if they come callin’ again, lead ‘em straight to the
      nearest bog and flush ‘em down the toilet pan with any other light-weight turd floatin’ around! Whoooooooosshh!

      • satyadeva says:

        That’s pretty rich coming from the one who suggests Osho might have lacked self-esteem and was primarily concerned with building a business empire (MOD: SEE Osho & Baba Hari Giri TOPIC).

        You, Ashok, appear to be so worried about being naive, conned, taken for a simple-minded, gullible mug, that you choose to believe utter nonsense – and thus are dangerously close to becoming exactly what you so desperately want to avoid being!

        You like to refer to others as ‘bags of wind’ but so many of your outpourings here are merely “full of sound and fury”, essentially “signifying nothing” except an astounding degree of ignorance about the man whom you supposedly take as your spiritual master. Are you really that deaf, that blind?

        Given the above, if you are a man who truly values your integrity, then surely it would be impossible for you to wholeheartedly call yourself a sannyasin? So why don’t you be true and abandon that, it would seem, false identity, ditch the Indian name and thus become significantly more real?

        Or is it the truth that you kind of like the ‘image’, finding it a convenient means to ease your access into a rather large, hedonistic ‘club’, just the job for a would-be ‘playboy’ like yourself??

        • Parmartha says:

          I can’t find where Ashok makes this claim about Osho (lack of self-esteem and financial empire). Seems strange for someone who still uses a sannyas name, which I assume Ashok is.

          I share SD’s scepticism.

          Ashok seems unaware that if you and Existence itself are in union that miracles do happen. When the money is needed it arises. Considerations around self-esteem seem totally inappropriate to someone who has stopped being a person in the ordinary sense.

          MOD:
          THE POST YOU ASK ABOUT, Parmartha, IS AT THE Osho and Baba Hari Giri TOPIC: December 25, 11.15am.

          • Tan says:

            “…if you and Existence itself are in union miracles do happen. When the money is needed it arises.”

            What a beautiful observation, big P! One has always to be reminded….

            Cheers!

          • Ashok says:

            “Ashok seems unaware that if you and Existence itself are in union miracles do happen.”

            Yes, very interesting, Parmartha, perhaps you would care to elaborate further. Furthermore, given what I perceive as a very self-assured tone on your part, you will be able to furnish some example/s from your own life and experience.

            What you have written could be seen by some as ‘magical thinking’, could it not?

            • Parmartha says:

              Perhaps, Ashok, you should answer whether you still consider yourself a sannyasin, which to me continues to be unclear.

              • Ashok says:

                Dear Parmartha!

                Many thanks for your reply and for staying engaged – I had anticipated not receiving any further communication, at all!

                To answer your question as to whether I am still a sannyasin or not, let me just say that as far as I am concerned the answer is YES – even though to some it might appear otherwise.

                It has become very clear to me recently, however, that Sannyas News, and many of its contributors, are in general, on a path different to the one I have chosen for myself. In the final analysis who can say which is better? They are just different paths going in the same direction, perhaps?

                However, please be aware that both the respect and gratitude towards Osho, and some elements of his work which I have expressed at various times, have been genuine and continue to be so.

                To be involved here, Parmartha, has been a fruitful experience for me personally, and therefore I would like to thank you directly for having allowed me to be part of it. I would also like to thank all posters for having served as my mirrors. It has certainly been a very bumpy road at times with sharp disagreement, crankiness, and much misunderstanding, I feel. But of course, there have also been many moments of imagination, fun and laughter shared too. I have welcomed them all and intend to take the lessons learnt with me on my journey ahead.

                On a final note, my friends, please note that I take full responsibility to having acted sporadically with an excess of zeal in an effort to explore myself. If I have offended you in any way, please accept my apologies and be aware that no real harm was intended. I have often treated this forum as a kind of therapy group process, and have now decided it is neither right nor appropriate for me to do so any longer, given that you are all real people at the other end of the line – something I will confess to having lost sight of at times. This latter consideration
                has also figured large in my decision to move on.

                I wish you all well, and of course,

                ‘A HAPPY NEW YEAR!’

                Ashok

                • Parmartha says:

                  No need to say goodbye.

                • Parmartha says:

                  My wider answer to you, Ashok, is to consider Osho’s own early ministry carefully, and that is why I asked whether you were still a sannyasin.

                  Osho, like many of us, could have had an ‘easy’ and more or less anonymous life, he had an academic post, and could have continued on a career path there. He just resigned, not when he knew that anyone in particular would support him, but within a few months some Jains began supporting him because they thought that what he was saying was more than riveting, and was plainly not phoney.

                  Osho is not alone in attracting such financial support coming to those who are somehow doing God’s work. Even amongst Osho’s disciples! Like him, we gave up professional life as we sought what he seemed to have and to live within that shakti.

                  And yet in my own case, even when I had not a drop of savings left, somehow support came to me. Someone, without even asking me if I needed money or to be in Pune, simply bought me a ticket from London to Poona, and the bread to be there for a while.

                  That’s why I speak on this in the way that I do.

  6. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    Imho, in Osho’s discourses there is at least one recurring rhetorical scheme, this:

    1) From the moral tension, the neurotic core, from which comes the question, “Dramatize” that tension (if the person who is asking is a normal one, I mean normally neurotic): in this case, perhaps, maybe who makes the question does it for a very familiar issue, having to castrate the desire to celebrate (as it was for me to return from Pune in the early 90′s or after a good group like Mystic Rose, Primal or Codipendency), for not to look ridiculous, out of context and disrespectful with the majority all around, so identified with their “pain-body”, except in the holidays;

    2a) After showing the opposing arguments (polarity) Implicit in the question, and in consideration of the questionar, invites toward the choice of an affirmative and vital behavior, eventually challenging the collective conditioning (Rebellion / Emancipation vs. Approval), in this case he said that’s ok celebrating on working days too;

    2b) After showing the opposing arguments Implicit in the question he “Advaitecly” utters the “neti neti”, to open to a higher level of moral/meaning that question does not exhibit, removing its dual perspective (contained between the two polarities) ; this is not the case … if the Osho discourse ended here;

    3) After having supported a thesis or the other come the jokes, to instill an atmosphere of playfulness on the whole affair, even “against” the thesis that he suggested it as correct (paradox).

    But the most important things, for not misunderstand Osho, for me are:

    1) Remember how many times he has said to be not a philosopher, and so that he do not care at all to contradict himself, he is only one who knows himself, and as a human being he knows his “contradictory condition “(the part of the whole, etc.);

    2) As a student / teacher of philosophy knows the logical limits of self-referential sentences, and when it was shown to him Osho has always managed elegantly and effortlessly integrate them “in line” with what he would say next;

    3) Listening to him you never get the feeling of “having to stick” with a thesis rather than another, no pressure to approval;

    4) When you read Osho is useful and important to imagine how he would communicate the things that we read, the tone of voice, facial expression, gestures, laughter or silence of the lovers around him etc.

    If all that I have written has a basis the success of Osho as a speaker may not be in his words but in their effect: a head (material) lighter, drained by the many concepts and words that have crossed it, and a heart (spiritual ) full of joy, a general sense of trust, rose fragrance, a laugh or many tears ….

    … If I had I asked the same question, having always had problems with the holidays ordered by the church, perhaps Osho would have invited me to do somthing else during the holidays….than write bullshit.

    Hug,

    VF

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=080yUm5Kmz4

  7. Lokesh says:

    In Veet’s litany of I am not sure what, comes the following question: “Remember how many times Osho has said to be not a philosopher, and so that he do not care at all to contradict himself?”

    Yes, I do, but so what? Osho was a philosopher on many levels, replete with all his contradictions. Osho sat for years delivering discourses that were philosophical in content. To say he was not a philosopher belongs to the same mindset that says Osho had flash cars to stop the wrong kind of people being attracted to him. If you believe that nonsense you will believe anything.

    • shantam prem says:

      There is an old saying: An intelligent enemy is better than an idiot friend. Readers can use their discretion to see who is an intelligent enemy and who is an idiot friend expressing their perceptions about big O.

      Lokesh deserves applause!

  8. Arpana says:

    Lokesh opines:

    “To say he was not a philosopher belongs to the same mindset that says Osho had flash cars to stop the wrong kind of people being attracted to him. If you believe that nonsense you will believe anything.”

    To be so dogmatic that it isn’t is just as much of an opinion as to insist it is. Just seems so babyish that you believe your opinions are hard fact, and the opinions of others are not. None of us knows for sure. Grow up.

    • satyadeva says:

      The roots of the term ‘philosopher’ are, according to the dictionary:
      “Middle English: from a variant of Old French philosophe, via Latin from Greek philosophos ‘lover of wisdom’, from philein ‘to love’ + sophos ‘wise’.”

      Thus, Osho and all other finders and seekers of Truth, may be termed ‘philosophers’, without necessarily having formally studied the academic discipline of Philosophy.

      • shantam prem says:

        In Osho´s case, it was M.A degree in Philosophy. One can ask, why not in Physics or Mathematics?

      • Lokesh says:

        Absolutely correct, SD.

      • Parmartha says:

        A good point, SD.

        I always felt the term ‘philosopher’ much better applied simply to a lover of wisdom.

        I myself did a degree in philosophy under Sir Karl Popper, but actually one did often wonder whether much “love” of wisdom was being exhibited, though it was not altogether excluded!

        • sannyasnews says:

          From Prem Martyn

          Just published:
          ‘Karl Popper’s Personal Perceptions and Important Portents for Perplexed People: A Memoir 1947-1973.

          An extract…

          It was the New Year of 1932, or was it perhaps the winter of ’67, one can not be entirely sure about these things, can one? Anyvay, it was definitely in the past at some point, which is very reassuring as one can not think in the future as this would be pure speculation and impossible to justify. Although this is a belief until repudiated through thoroughness and what I tell my students ‘Ansbleringniffundpergeshreidenfahrenheitundvunsugarbitte’, or simple ‘Pfiffle’.

          Achtung – vher vas I ?

          Ah, sorry, yes…when I become passionate I return to my loose, Austrian-inflected English, which has the southern Tyrolean lilt of my antecedents. Those lush verdant pastures, the cow bells…the sound of empires collapsing and the consequent restoring of human dignity by waltzing thoroughly and merrily and the taste of chocolate Sachertorte oozing in every child’s lunch sandwich.

          Ah, yes, speculation, Austria and philosophy, these facts (for that is what we are dealing with here) must be dealt with if we are to understand the human condition fully. Mmmm, are you with me? Good, yes, then let us begin…to question.

          It was at this point that I, Professor KP (Professor Nuts to my friends) became flustered. It was on that Tuesday (or was it the Thursday?) that I realised that I had challenged my students to enquire on a very important question. The only difficulty being that I couldn’t actually remember any decent ones myself.
          .
          Not a single question popped into my head and I was fast entering a state of ‘dumbfoundedness’ or ‘BehreifsHuldangeboerinGkitschspielplatzbenzundDaimlerdieselclasse’ in front of all my 130 seated students in Oxford University’s very own debating chamber, the very resplendent common room of Brasenose College. I clearly remember staring at the aluminium tea-urn which seemed to be steaming more earnestly than I had ever recalled, surrounded by my erstwhile alumni.

          Moments were plunging past like lead on a plumbline…there was the occasional ruffling of papers from the audience, a cough, a Brase-nose-blowing. Still, nothing. I noticed that my left ankle had begun to shake a little and was affecting my balance. It was then that.I attempted to clear my throat so as to remember what my dear Uncle Vanya had taught me all those years ago in times of adversity:

          “Ludwig”, he would say to me, “Ludwig”.
          “Ahh, uncle”, I would sheepishly reply, “you cannot call me Ludwig as you know very well my mother has named me Karl.”
          “Tosh and nonsense”, Uncle Vanya replied, admonishing me, which was his then predictable response. “Go ask your mother if your father was Ludwig or Kaaaarl” which he followed with a rather puzzling and increasing, “Ha, und ha und HA-HA!”

          Yes, those years had caused me to doubt everything, especially why it was that my mother would often have to spend the whole night away, feeding the polar bears at the Vienna Zoo on night shift. And which required no proof or justification to me, her only unquestioning son Karl (or was it Ludwig?). It was then that I started to think. A lot. About things, I may have been 13…or was it 33?

          The door to the common room burst open.
          “Nuts!”, the voice declaimed.
          “Yes, over here,” I replied, “that’s me!”
          The voice, coming from somewhere near-about that altitude which was required to land a wickerwork hot-air balloon-cradle in safety (or, nearabouts the 7ft high, panelled, wooden ceiling) continued,
          “Nuts, whole hazel-nuts, ugh, Cadbury’s take them and they cover them in chocolate. Hi there, Prof.”
          I breathed an internal sigh of relief as my remaining thoughts fell and my spirit rose.

          The bursting door had brought with it none other than one of Oxford’s greatest minds, also bursting upon the assembled scene. It was none other than my most prized Doctoral student, the eponymous (and taller than average) soon-to-be Doctor-of-Philosophy, the great-great grandson of that famous Victorian detective who had famously arrested the infamously evil and foul-smelling, famous fishmonger’s-assassin, ‘Jack The Kipper’, the great-great grandson of, yes, the very famous DC Superintendent, detective to the Queen whose name I could never remember fully.

          Yes, it was he, the student whom everyone knew by his eponymous nickname, ‘Big P’, and surely, certainly, without doubt or question, was I heaving a sigh of relief, as I, Karl Popper was once again unable to put even two words together in support of any question, or better, any answer.

          “Hi, Pop. How’s the groove? Still doing that ‘thinking’, mann?! Hey, you oughttta cut that jazz outtt!!! Like the answer, lovvvve the question! Checkk it out, bro, like gimme a hugg, man.”

          Although I was quietly, diligently attentive, in my familiar and rational Austrian coherence, these words, when spoken by this particular man, dressed as he was in some sort of sun-faded, dawn-red, flared, cheesy cloth trousers, tied in a ribbon at the waist, these words then simply landed between my ears as a sign of the divine. Which was strange as I have been a professed Professor of Atheism all my natural life – but no matter.

          I began to stutter, with relief, as words began to form on my tongue and I started to introduce my fabled favourite student to the assembled throng:
          “Ah, yes, Ladies and Gentlepeople and distinguished guests, I would like to begin tonight’s lecture on Dialectical Post-Empiricism and er the ermm, Indian…”

          “Curry? Here, let me help you out, Prof.”

          My red-robed friend just then swung-in from the doorway from where he had just appeared and swung around with arms wide open, barely missing my own spectacles perched on the end of my nose, with what seemed like a long line of wooden beads complete with a cream-coloured pearl-shaped opaline of an image of Karl Marx or someone similarly ancient who appeared to be staring into a vast undefined distance.

          “You missed, Prof – you know, like the beads man.”

          Indeed I had.

          Big P continued, “Never pretend to a love which you do not actually feel, for love is not ours to command. You dig that, Prof? Like, man, you’re either on the bus or off the bus. Digg it man and stay cooll, and hassle-free.”

          Big P continued to wax lyrically, as the atmosphere became less Brasenosey and more – how can one put it? – -‘Shaudenfreudenspielzondergretzen’. Yes, more, uhm, playful.

          “You know, Prof, the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow Roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centrelight pop and everybody goes “Awww!” ”

          A round of applause followed as fellow students began to hug each other merrily.

          “Hey and you know, one more thing, to all you groovers out there, let’s just all remember that, “When you’ve seen beyond yourself, then you may find peace of mind is waiting there.” ”

          It was then that I had the enormous pleasure to ask Big P one of my own less formulated questions: “What should we actually do?”

          Big P closed his eyes for one brief moment, swung his arms as if he were aiming an invisible cricket bat at an invisible ball way, way, way into the distances and replied with all the dignity of an invisible umpire, ”All I’m gonna do is just go on and do what I feel.”

          Upon saying which, he glanced over his shoulder, winked an eye at two very attractive long-haired young ladies, one brunette and one blonde, who had followed him into the room by now and were standing just behind in their big chrome-buckled, flared and flower-printed white jeans.

          “Gotta go now, Prof, have a great life… Bhagwan Shree is You and Me”. And with that, Big P disappeared as suddenly as he had arrived .

          A ray of sunlight just at that moment bedazzled us by shining through the high, lead-beaded window above and reflecting on one of the diamante opalines of the crystal chandelier at the edge of the room. I knew then that it was going to be a very happy 1963 (or was it 1974? One can never be too sure about these things, if one thinks about it, really).

          Anyway, a very Happy New Year…

          Karl (‘KP Nutsen’)

        • swamishanti says:

          Check out this one.
          The bells at the beginning. Ting Ting!

          https://youtu.be/kK4aVB1uPOg

    • Lokesh says:

      What, grow up and be like you, sucking on your Osho dummy tit, Arpana? No thanks, I would rather hang out with Peter Pan and Tinkerbell, any day of the week. I will leave growing up to the grown ups like you. Keith Richards was heard to say that you do not grow up until you die. I do not know if that is true, but I like the sound of it, and it also means he does not see himself as being grown-up and that is cool with me. Child of the universe and all that. Grow up! Sounds like the sort of shite post-war parents said to their kids.

      • Arpana says:

        You sound really cross. How can someone as evolved as you feel cross at a nobody like me? Oh dear.

        • Arpana says:

          Poor old thing, Lokesh. You really are on the defensive.

        • shantam prem says:

          Arpana is right. Above post of Lokesh is cross.

          If devotees like Arpana and Madhu confront the priestly elements who have hijacked Osho´s work, one can still hope for the New Man.

          • Arpana says:

            Shantam, you have no reason to believe this is not an attack from me, but in this instance this is not my intention.

            Consider the possibility that you/we won’t recognise the new man/woman. The new man/woman will not be like those people who have been involved in religion, spiritual practice up until now.

            What frame of reference do we have to tell us this is a new man/woman? The old man/woman usually wants attention, varying degrees of attention. We would not notice someone who didn’t seek attention.

            I put to you the new man/woman will be much more self-sufficient. How will we notice those who have no interest in being noticed?

            • satyadeva says:

              Isn’t that another way of saying that this (to use the, to me, rather odd-sounding term) ‘new man’ (and woman) won’t be unhappy, ie beset by inner conflicts, moods, ups and downs, possessed by destructive emotions etc, etc?

              But why should such a state necessarily imply that all concerned remain or choose to remain ‘invisible’, as it were?

              Life being of infinite variety, surely that Life within, once real-ised, ie as an ongoing reality of being, is free to take any shape it wishes or is moved to be, whether active, extrovert, passive, creatively artistic, craftsmanlike, physical, mental, singing, dancing, standing still, laying down – in any conceivable situation of work or play, or any other activity.

              • Arpana says:

                I wasn’t particularly suggesting absolute invisibility, but I am suggesting dramatically less co-dependency (my appa-logies for the psychobabble): so much less in need of attention, much more private.

                I suggest a lot of extroversion is fear of solitude, is fear of anonymity, fuelled by substance abuse, which just makes people paranoid as hell.

                P.S:
                I posted that as much as anything else just to start a discussion and attempt to engage Shantam in a dialogue rather than the usual.

                PPS:
                Certainly not intended as the absolutely last word on the subject; and I will wreak havoc on you and all your descendants even unto the twentieth generation if you don’t agree with me, sort of thing.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        The other day, Lokesh, and quite recently, you posted a baby pic. I have been looking for it today and didn´t find it yet…

        I was in truly much in awe when seeing it, I remember. Such a mischievious, strong life energy of (yet !) a small ´big mouth-frog´, being in utter joy in playing with the power of sound and expression, I presume. Innocent. Just this.

        (Guess, when you nowadays for example successfully fuck aboot and share the sucess with Yogi, you may look pretty much the same (just older and by now bald-headed) and meta-talk-anonymous).

        I loved the pic! Makes it easier for me, not to take it too personally when you stump your way in the caravanserai.

        Not everybody is born with such ´equipment, I would say. But I see it – since looking at such – more relaxed, when you bite (not only one finger) pointing to some moon. And after all, also this quote topic was essentially all about.

        Have a nice day at your fabulous place. And if the boot mongers let my request through, would you mind to tell me the spot to look at ´your baby-pic again?

        Madhu

  9. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    “Who thinks it is necessary to philosophise must philosophise and those who think we should not philosophise must philosophise to prove that you should not philosophise; So you have to philosophise in any case or out of here, bidding farewell to life, because all the other things seem to be just talk and empty talk.” (Aristotle).

    “Philosopher is one who takes seriously the bullshit he says.” (Anonymous – with a couple of daily medals).

    A servant told his asshole that he is right to call me a believer…are you serious?

    A big hug to friends of Osho and His meta-language, of which we are a part…And a big smile for those who believe to confine Osho into a label.

    Love

    VF

  10. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    @Shantam Prem
    “An intelligent enemy is better than an idiot friend.”

    You forget the tale about the 10 monks crossing the river: what about the idiot enemy?

    Ciao,

    VF

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XyOmYVIsig

  11. Parmartha says:

    I can see that people like Shantam may be on the horns of a dilemma with this string.

    Osho rightly, and as Frank concurs, is dead right about forgetting about ‘celebration specials’, every second God gives you represents an invitation to that spirit.

    On the other hand, it might be said Osho encouraged four days of celebration within the ashram calendar!

    Knowing Laxmi a little I would say such things were her ideas, and much lucre was made that way. But it is true that Osho did not outlaw them, which he might have done.

  12. shantam prem says:

    Dear Parmartha,
    There was no Laxmi nor Sheela during Pune 2.

    Osho celebrated with His people all the celebrations with gusto. Not only that, He created Osho Academy of Creative Arts, Science and Consciousness. Dr. Amrito even wrote a book about this. One can google relevant paragraphs after paragraphs about this.

    Moreover, Osho had all the time to think about his work post-death. He has not said something like, “Hell with the festivals once I go. You guys also go back home and get any job you get.”

    Aha…Parmartha, you too were not in Pune 2 around the master, not even for a single week. Nothing bad about this. Those who were there have not got higher consciousness compared to others.

    • satyadeva says:

      “Not only that, He created Osho Academy of Creative Arts, Science and Consciousness.”

      What has that got to do with the ‘celebrations’ issue?

      • shantam prem says:

        Grand scale celebrations where best of Indian creative genius were invited was part of the scheme. It continued till 2000. Otherwise, what was the purpose of creating an institution during last months of His life?

        From the very beginning of His public life, it is obvious Osho had fiery vision to create one of the unique places which offers A-to-Z service for spiritual seekers.

        It matters not that, post-master, it lost the shine, but not to appreciate his entrepreneurship is injustice to sense of fairness.

        It also matters not that many people have not found any utility for such a place; it never was an intention either.

    • Parmartha says:

      Happy New Year, Shantam.

      I don’t see geography as important, Shantam. I have been ‘with’ Osho since 1974 – where I was and am make no physical difference.

      Osho, when alive, certainly discussed with his advisors temporal things all the time, but they were almost invariably things the advisors would bring to him, Amrito included. And I suspect he very often said yes to them, whatever!

      There was, by the way, nothing wrong with Laxmi, she did a magnificent job. There was something wrong with Sheela, and my belief, having seen her on film recently, is that she still suffers from her past.

      I am not alone in thinking that Osho often looked bored in celebrations, as well he might!

      • shantam prem says:

        Happy New Year to you also, beloved Parmartha and all the others who write and read on this unique site.

        If I get the chairmanship of Osho Foundation, one of the jobs will be to create home for senior sannyasins with all the comforts, including oxygen cylinders.

        Intention is clear, salt of Osho work get space to meet. Without misfit disciples from the West, Osho is another Indian guru with top-of-the-league oratory skills.

        I Love HIS People.

  13. vijay says:

    Today is today because it is not tomorrow.

  14. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    @Kavita,

    Thanks for going to check the date of the distant February 2015, so you were able to correct me.

    Sorry if I got the impression that you’ve supported someone in ignoring the question that I had done to him a few days before, that if you were not lazy you would have gone to check.

    http://lyricstranslate.com/it/pigro-lazy-bomb.html

    Hug,

    VF

    P.S:
    Check the Tsh, in case I could share about my personal therapy (no pills). Love.

    MOD:
    VF, Tsh MEANS?

    • Kavita says:

      Again, VF, with reference to my statement about laziness in this case, I said I am lazy to write, not to read, in case you got me wrong (well, that’s ok too).

      Anyway, wonder if anyone of us gets what exactly is being conveyed! Wonder if communication does more of mis-communication in this case! So I’ll let it be.

  15. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    @MOD
    Thyroid-stimulating hormone: 4 years ago I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s syndrome and Big Pharma would have liked that I became his client for the rest of my life.

    The syndrome makes one tired and apathetic, apparently lazy. It was enough to identify the ‘poisons’ in my diet, like soy, casein and gluten, to feel much better.

    Maybe I’ll post this comment on the next page, answering Kavita…thank YOU.

  16. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    @Kavita

    You’re right, the objective reality seems to exist only for the arrogant ones, who explain to us how much we are blind with our stupid cult rituals, like share That Love (our biggest reification).

    Is this for you a good reason not to try to communicate with them?

    Hug & Love,

    VF

    • Kavita says:

      To your question, VF, I would say not at all, in fact I think & feel that communication is a tool only if the communication can take one individually/both to a better understanding of the abstract/each other, but when I see that not happening I’d rather not waste each other’s energy, but rather go ahead & find whatever is needed on one’s own/just leave it where it is to find its own way.

      I think & feel the real understanding comes only from one’s own effortlessness/effort, whatever the case might be.

  17. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    @Kavita

    And I’m sure we’re thinking of the same lazy person able to talk, not only read, with effortlessness/effort, communicating with us despite all our human arrogance/cynicism* levels.

    Welcome, you’ve come to the right place, for that and That.

    *Canine, similar to the dog, which mimics dog.

    MOD:
    RE * (ABOVE): ?

    VF:
    I meant to distinguish the philosophical sense of the word ‘cynicism’, which also has some virtuous aspects, from the etymological sense, which imho sometimes here is very ostentatious when someone wants to puy down someone else.

  18. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    @Kavita

    Correct, nothing is more arrogant than relativists who forget that even their ontology should be based on some truth.

    We, as sannyasins (you’re still on the boat, right?), some knowledge on the subject we should have processed, at least cognitively.

    Flowers in your gun.

    VF