Rebel Indians try fresh Legal Tactics (July, 2016)
Mumbai : Aggrieved by the so-called ‘inaction’ of Pune police re Osho’s will, Yogesh Thakkar has approached the Bombay High Court and sought for transfer of the investigations to Central Bureau of Investigations (CBI).
Yogesh Natwarlal Thakkar has filed a criminal writ petition in the HC alleging that the Pune-based Koregaon Park police have not acted yet, despite several complaints filed by him against six persons.
Thakkar had filed an application in 2012 and named six persons alleging that they created a ‘forged’ ‘Will of Osho’ by putting the guru’s forged signature on the ‘fake’ document.
The petition names – Swami Anand Jayesh, Swami Yogendra, Swami Prem Niren, Swami Amrito, Swami Mukesh Bharti and one Pramod, alleges that they have forged the signatures of Osho in the fake Will to get benefits by acquiring the rights of his Intellectual Property, which are of million dollars worth.
It may be recalled Osho had died on January 19, 1990 in his Pune-based ashram.
In his petition, Thakkar has cited the certificates of several so-called experts who have claimed that the alleged Will was forged and fake. He has annexed the copies of certificates of experts from both India as well as foreign countries.
The petition states that all the accused have allegedly siphoned the money, they received from the royalties of the Intellectual Properties Rights to the companies they have established in UK and US.
The petition states, “All the accused conspired together and dishonestly and fraudulently created false Will of Osho (dated – 15.10.1989) with intent to claim the intellectual properties of Osho as it is obvious that the accused are the beneficiaries of the gains yield from his properties.”
Terming the intellectual properties of Osho as ‘spiritual heritage of India’, the petitioner has sought the transfer of the probe to CBI.
It is difficult to fully understand the likes of Thakkar. in such minds conspiracies abound. Presumably the Pune police dept feel that no major illegalities have happened, otherwise they would have acted.
For the sake of records, here is a link to have darshans of Osho´s last will. Few may find this murky and macabre, few may appreciate the craft work behind.
http://www.osho.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/alleged-last-will-osho.pdf
I thought that I had cleared all this up a couple of years ago when I shared how I was rooting around in my garden shed when I came across one of those old 10 rupee aerogrammes. It is dated December 10th, 1989, it reads:
“I, Raja Mohan Jain Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh Zorba Maitreya the Buddha Acharya Mahakashyapasyougoalong Osho, being of sound no-mind and acting from my own free whim, bequeathe my trip to a bunch of alcoholic western baboons and a pile of neo-Hindu nutters.
Well, if you can’t have a bit of a laugh just as you`re about to merge with the Cosmos for the rest of all eternity, when can you?
Cheraiveti, cheraiveti, and cheerio.
P.S:
I never said, “I leave you my dream”, I said, “I leave you my legal team.” “
“It is difficult to fully understand the likes of Thakkar. in such minds conspiracies abound. Presumably the Pune police dept feel that no major illegalities have happened, otherwise they would have acted.” (Parmartha)
No, Parmartha, it is not so difficult to understand anger about forgery and (at least) attempts to go into legal action against forgery.
Otherwise, your presumption, that Pune police dept would have acted if they ´feel´(your word) that illegalities have happened, I would put a big question mark against..
I am speaking on my own authority, of having to deal with with the issues re quite mean aftermaths of forgeries, robbing, rapes (in a broad sense) and a thoroughly corrupt structure, supporting such calamities up to quite extended measures.
You need not be in India to experience such.
However, you, or the SN team, chose a very good title, putting out the question: “Fresh Developments?” Very easy to say that nothing is fresh in that matter. That´s what Frank reminded us in his response, in his very unique way to do it.
My stand, being confronted daily with the life-suffocating aftermaths of comparable issues, is a bit different from his, as I look for another way, beyond cynicism, to deal with my anger and sometimes deep despair and dealing with kind of hopeless case(s), to get ‘justice’, so to say.
That´s strong meditation, one can say – as this/these special issue(s) is (are) with me daily, since the late 90s and especially the last seven years here; and doing dynamic will not do in this case (even if you won´t believe it, I guess).
So I know what I am talking about.
However, and that is my point here in the thread:
What the hell is our business – if Sannyas is alive – wherever (!) we are, to cope with the ever- repetitious stuff in India?
This is a question…
And most of us (here at SN, folks and contributors) seem not to be bankers or businessmen or women, or lawyers involved in and with the Pune Ashram for quite a long while.
Most of us are not even visitors, like Shantam also, the raging Sikh here. He is living in Germany and has his very daily stuff to face. Like any one of us. Like me here in Bavaria, Germany.
I connect to the thread topic by and with my life-issues, as pretty much always; and responding to that which I know of, and that is in this case, about what happens if I am confronted with injustice, forgeries and a mafia structure which supports that kind of shit.
And any day, when my eyes are open and not ´wide shut´, I see and feel that I am not at all the only one being confronted with nasty stuff, in whatsoever role, choosing deliberately or being dragged into such matters.
There must be another way, I say to myself then, other than the ways to either join the perpetrators, or angels of vengeance, or be stuck on the victim´s side, or joining the majority in playing the part of dumb indifference.
And mostly find out – sometimes earlier, sometimes later – that, moment-to-moment, there IS another way to find the necessary GAP (of no way at all…just THIS moment).
Madhu
You don’t know everything about everyone who posts here, Madhu; and other individuals who post here face life tribulations the equal of yours in difficulty, albeit different (I am not referring to myself here).
“Osho’s will – fresh developments.”
That’s a good one.
I thought the final call was over in Dec 2015: http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/5600
I predicted, as you may remember at the time of that string, Kavita, that this would not be “the final call”!
Perfectly correct, Kavita! It is certainly a final plea for a final solution!
The whiteskin baboons who have destroyed our holy religion, drunk alcohol, eaten Osho Beef Pies (TM) in the holiest of holy shrines and urinated on the heritage of mighty India must be ethically cleansed by brownskin heroes of Bhorat who understand how religions evolve!
Osho must be immediately inducted into the Madame Tussaud’s Indian Guru Hall of Fame by Swami Sadgit where he can take his rightful place in the “spiritual heritage of India” alongside Paedo Baba, Harry Krishna, Muktananda Sewage Lagoon, Charles Sobhraj, Siraj-ud-Daulah, Amitabh Bacchan, Moraji Desai and the like, whom Osho always spoke so highly of!
And it is perfectly correct that that the police and lawyers should be involved! They are clearly the right ones to hand over key decisions about the future of Osho`s work to!
Hopefully, Zorba the Buddha Modi can be persuaded by Swami Arun to step in and place the Samadhi under the jurisdiction of the military police, thereby assuring the continuation of Osho`s vision, dream, legacy and work for future generations which is mighty Hindia`s generous gift to the world!
But the whiteskin baboons have hijacked the time-honoured traditions and customs of mighty India!
They are shamelessly and corruptly siphoning off cash into their own bank accounts in the name of enlightenment and religion!
We must reclaim this ancient wisdom of mighty Bhorat for ourselves!
I look forward with a longing more passionate than Shantambhai longs for a good shag with a gora girl, to the day when the heroic rebels of mighty Bhorat, led by balding lawyers, long-faced accountants, bank managers, policemen, delivery drivers and other fascinatingly interesting characters rise up in heroic mutiny and cast off the yoke of the consciousness-colonising Anglo-Saxon goras!
In my vision, which is Osho`s vision, I see the podium restored to its former glory with the likes of Sadgit, Arun, Modi, Shantam, Kirti and co. on it, striking yogic poses and vowing solemnly to be dispatched into their next incarnation in the manner of their forefathers and descendants wearing holey underwear and holy mala as sacred thread over one shoulder!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Jai Bhorat!
Osho Zindabad!
Yogi, you always take the cake! Yogi Zindabad!
“In my vision, which is Osho’s vision…”?
ANOTHER INDIAN BIG MOUTH! Aah a aah aah!!!!
Idli Coconut, the joke is on you.
As Buddha said, BE A JOKE UNTO YOURSELF!!! Aah aaaah aaah yeppaaaah yahoooooo!
I never heard that Buddha said that, Barfi. But it does not matter because you have succeeded.
Actually, it`s in one of the lesser known texts in the Pali canon called:
‘Barf your way to God’.
Yes, Parmartha, I do & I had affirmed even then!
Phillip Toakes (Sw. Prem Niren) was a witness to this will.
After the Ranch he practised as a lawyer in the USA. Both before and after the date of this will.
I remember him as fly.
He was not the type to risk his living by forgery, or by something he could not explain if questioned.
Parmartha, it seems, in your opinion, after Sheela everything became innocent, virgin, uncorrupted. With Sheela, Ronald Reagan and Pope the Polack, dark night of the Earth disappeared.
That is why we see in every city, sannyasins walking hand in hand and singing, “Osho, we your people have spread around the world.”
Seriously though…
I think we sannyasins should take this opportunity to really learn from past mistakes and get things clear.
A realistic appraisal is called for. What are we good at, or not?
Dancing, making music, celebration, looking after number one, distributing psycho-actives, heavy breathing, enlightentertainment…
We rate pretty highly on these.
Long-term running of a religion or cult?
From day one it`s been a litany of falling out, in-fighting, theft, fraud, legal cases, forgeries, major felonies, murder, poison, scandal, arrests etc. etc…
Absolute bag o` shite!
It`s make your mind up time.
If you`ve still got one, that is.
Here is a link to the evidence presented that the alleged last will of Osho is actually a forgery:
http://www.osho.de/alleged-last-will-osho-en/
With links to:
** Witness statement and sworn affidavit by Mr. Toelkes (OIF’s lawyer, Niren)
** Graphological Assessment from Bologna, Italy
** Graphological assessment from Aurangabad, India
** Graphological assessment from New Delhi, India
** Criminal report from the police station in Pune, India
Enjoy!
Love,
Samarpan
http://www.osho.de/alleged-last-will-osho-en/
It`s most probably a forgery.
But this is India!
Don`t forget that more than half of the Indian members of parliament have serious criminal records. (check for yourself).And the rest probably haven`t been caught yet.
Why do a forgery,then?
Because they can!
As the Indian proverb goes:”He who has the stick has the buffalo” (might is right). You see it on the roads every day. Right of way is decided by who has biggest and best vehicle. Pedestrians just have bad karma,thats all.
The news is that Amrito was in court in Mumbai this morning.
The magistrate asked him if he would like to say something.
He answered by turning his back towards the prosecution,dropping his pants to reveal a pair of shiny white buttocks and shouted:”If those marble-kissers want something to kiss,they can get their loser lips round these beauties”
He then discharged himself loudly, and went to the Oberoi for a large gin and tonic.
Dear Friends,
It might sometimes help (at least it helps me sometimes) to recapture some good ‘nuggets’, given in our own SN columns, as a kind of ‘little helper’ to go through turbulence in the cyclic-circulating small or bigger (mental or otherwise) pains.
Hope that Prem Martyn will forgive me if I quote him here-now, as I have been and still am grateful for what he was conferring in such matters, like “christmas greetings”…so long ago and yet hitting the target, isn´t it?
Prem Martyn says (22 Dezember 2015 at 9.49 pm):
“Not giving a toss is a supreme talent accessible by all. It’s also shareable and very, very real and existential
There are, of course, things to give a toss about but they are too bloody obvious and demanding.
So we take up not giving a toss by giving it a name of ‘enquiry’ and realising that even if we didn’t give a toss about it, it really wouldn’t be noticeable anyway. Unless you are a born tosser, in which case nothing can help you.”
Prem Martyn says (23 December, 2015 at 8:05 am):
“Tell me if I’ve got something wrong here…but I’m thinking that there’s one thing Gurus, their cohorts, Kings and Queens & their courtiers, Popes and their flockers, fanaticals and their fan base, politicians and their polling spin doctors all have in common (& online bloggers and bloggereers)…
They never apologise.
For anything
Ever
That they actually got or get wrong.
Ever.
A bit like a nightmare dysfunctional relationship.
But with less fucking to make up for the missing bits.
Or just being fucked, and you know you’re alone with it.
Festive tip: Avoid.”
Weren´t we in ‘ancient times’, as neo-sannyas bunch of friends, well known (and envied too) for a talent to make any time a festive time? Together!(?)!
Madhu
Madhu,
Thanks for the quote.
I’m not reading here every day. There is a limit to being on a treadmill of Pavlovian exchanges.
Love
M
“There is a limit to being on a treadmill of Pavlovian exchanges.” (Prem Martyn).
Thanks a lot, Prem Martyn, you can be called an ‘Elder’.
Hope I can take up your gentle ‘counsel’ in time…and need it.
Madhu
Be careful who you follow, Madhu. Prem Martyn is as prone to Pavlovian exchanges as anyone, anywhere.
I don´t “follow”, Arpana, you don´t read what I wrote. However, that me, I, need a counsel every now and then is beyond question.
And if somebody calls a ‘spade’ a fucking ‘spade’ there is some oxygen available, if you know what I mean.
Inter-dependent – like everybody.
Human conditioning.
Madhu
So calling a spade a spade is ok when you say it’s ok, but it’s not ok if you say it’s not ok.
Perfectly correct, Madhu!
The foul-smelling menagerie of karmically-challenged lower species that inhabit the kennel of lower consciousness that is Sannyasnews swells with swinish new obscenities every day!
Alcoholic baboons, red-bottomed baboons, ignorant buffaloes, pygmies, cynical dogs, ugly camels, barfing south Indians, Pavlovian dogs…Is there any end to the beastly depravity of these whiteskins who have, like Arun has so clearly pointed out, abused the freedom that Osho has given them?
Thanks God that there is someone of your calibre with a fucking spade to heroically clean up the mess with zen-like statements of utter clarity such as:
“And if somebody calls a ‘spade’ a fucking ‘spade’ there is some oxygen available, if you know what I mean.”
Only a Pavlovian baboon from one of Pavlov`s most ill-starred and unsuccessful experiments, such as Arpana, could fail to “know what you mean”, as your words of wisdom rain down like a torrential blitzkrieg monsoon of acid rain on a spiritual desert!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
?
@ prem martyn
7 August, 2016 at 5:03 pm
Bravo, P.M.!(•̀ᴗ•́)و ̑̑
In one of the last strings, Simond has shared a link about Osho talks in response to Arpana´s post. So i downloaded from oshoworld and listened few times.
‘The Golden Future’ series of talks given by Osho in Buddha Hall are full of base values for New Man, New Humanity and very new way of looking at life.
In the present context, when priestly mind has almost sabotaged the master´s vision and work for New Man, this discourse is worth listening.
Collectively, we have such a false idea of loyalty. Till now our religious upbringing was such that to show loyalty to the chief priests was considered as fire test for trust in the departed messiahs and masters. All kind of corruption and exploitation were ignored and are still being ignored.
Osho´s 50 minutes in 25th discourse of ‘Golden Future’ series can open a new door.
Shantam declares, ” ‘The Golden Future’ series of talks given by Osho in Buddha Hall are full of base values for New Man, New Humanity and very new way of looking at life.”
I find it impossible to take such rhetoric seriously, especially coming from Shantam, a man who is obviously stuck with a very old way of looking at life. Listening to Osho discourses is all very well, but unless one practises or takes on board a teaching, meditation or techniques in order to change the way one views life a real change will never come about.
Osho may or may not have been host to a new perception of life but that will not make any difference in how you view the world.
Perhaps this a pitfall around a guru who talks the talk. One can fool oneself into believing that someone else’s experience is yours, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Whose rhetoric you will take seriously, Lokesh? I would happily donate 5 euros to sponsor your visit to someone whose words you take seriously.
On my side, I don´t think I have read less books than you and that too on various subjects. On academic level too, I think I have better credentials, though unused because of Project New Man under Osho´s stewardship.
So don´t you think I know the distinction between walk the talk, talk the walk and talks the talks?
Most probably it is a generation gap between us, Uncle Lokesh!
Shantam, you recently stated that you love religion. Osho abhorred religions. Yet you imagine yourself to be the disciple of such a man. Gimme a break.
My previous post had nothing to do with reading books. It had to do with finding a discipline suitable to one’s nature that works on opening the doors of perception.
You say, “On academic level too, I think I have better credentials, though unused because of Project New Man under Osho´s stewardship.”
That is a pretty lame excuse for not using one’s talents if ever I heard one. Besides, when I read your posts there is nothing much that comes across as sounding new. You are rowing the same old leaky boat as you have probably been doing for most of your life. This has nothing to do with a generation gap and everything to do with the gap between your ears that only appears to host a whacky litany of mumbo-jumbo that I doubt even you are capable of making sense of most days, let alone anyone else.
Oh yeah, just for the record, I’m not your uncle.
The people who abhorred religions don´t leave behind over-the-top wordings for their ashes. Tell me a single name in the history of religion and spirituality who has left behind such kind of tombstones, “Never Born, Never Died.”
Osho Adored Religion!
As the Swami Idli Coconut Barfi so wisely quoted, “In my vision, which is Osho’s vision….”!
(Read at least 500 times, Shantam, or more, until you get it)….
“In my vision, which is Osho’s vision….”!
Satyadeva, this can be true for you or for many others from the club of illuminati.
Anyone with little education knows not to mix maths formulas with chemistry. One needs to have some brain to be a whistle-blower, to stand against those active and inactive players who are imposing their mind on Osho´s mind.
(I don´t think everything coming from Osho´s mouth is a divine doctrine, every word and action from no-mind).
“One needs to have some brain to be a whistle-blower, to stand against those active and inactive players who are imposing their mind on Osho´s mind.”
Quite so, Shantam. Do you happen to know anyone who might fit two such stern criteria?
“(I don´t think everything coming from Osho´s mouth is a divine doctrine, every word and action from no-mind).”
Official notice:
Please be advised that any resemblance between this remark and any that might be made by “those active and inactive players who are imposing their mind on Osho’s mind” is pure coincidence and is not to be taken as the view of the writer.
All readers are, therefore, advised to use their discretion and disregard such confusingly spurious, self-serving nonsense. Thank You.
How Indian Police works, here is one example from today´s newspaper:
When a team of policemen can kill two youths by beating mercilessly for not giving bride of hundred rupees (1 euro and 20 cents exactly), think about the privilege enjoyed by Resort creators.
It is a common fact in Sannyas circles, Jayesh and team is the most generous bribery givers. Just last month I had long whatsapp telephone talk with Neelam. She mentioned how Jayesh used to boast, “India is the best place to live and work. You can buy administrative and police loyalty at damn cheap price.”
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/up-beaten-by-cops-seeking-bribe-two-labourers-jump-into-pond-drown/story-jvdYCiRcjmBLuIaADRX0zM.html
One more news about the sordid saga:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-news/doctor-claims-foul-play-in-osho-death/story-e8WJ7ytN7XtrTSmPERf9yK.html
All the wise Indians have one common speciality, to create the ideas which can save the world.
Indians with bit of inner wisdom like to play the role of world saviours.
It is another matter that their own disciples don´t take such things seriously.
P.S:
This impression is based on listening Osho and looking at the reality of forgery, bribery and revelry in the organisational structure developed around the memory of late Shree O Jain.
But Shantam, forget the world, mate – on all previous and current evidence you haven’t a clue how to ‘save’ yourself!
And isn’t it the case that your obsession with the Pune ashram derives from how totally stuck your own life is (and has been for many years)? Hence offloading your purely personal discontent onto ‘politics’ (like so many others in this benighted world).
No doubt you’re dreaming of ‘the golden past’ being restored and of you returning to what you imagine was your ‘former glory’. And/or seeing yourself as a noble defender of truth, civic law and freedom for Indian religionists.
Whereas in fact it’s nothing but a sort of self-created consolation prize.
Satyadeva, the difference between you and me is, you went to each and every Tom, Dick, Mary claiming to be enlightened or Avatara. On the other hand, I have not gone to anyone other than Osho before or after 15 October, 1983.
By explaining the psychology of it, I don´t want to humiliate you or make me higher. Every fact can be seen from many angles. But one thing is clear, if I have to be you, millions times I will prefer to be me. Though I must say, you are a nice, sensitive, trustworthy, gentleman, and a good friend.
“Every fact can be seen from many angles. But one thing is clear, if I have to be you, millions times I will prefer to be me. (Shantam Prem)
That´s very good news, Shantam Prem.
How come though, if that is so, that at least here in the UK SN chat, you are endlessly harrassing others?
Madhu
Am I harassing or you are playing Mother Superior? Ask yourself, faceless Madhu.
Most of your posts show how bitter you are from every human being around.
Far from the first time, you hide behind a load of ‘red herrings’, Shantam. Nothing at all to do with my previous post.
(Btw, perhaps you need to realise that going on about how well-read and qualified you are, how you ‘could have been a contender’, and using that to try to show how superior you are to others shows one thing: a sense of personal inferiority.
In the vast majority of cases, ‘the bigger the front, the bigger the back’, as the saying goes – Muhammad Ali being, perhaps, a notable exception. Although look what became of him…).
This string is about Osho´s so-called will and the court cases behind. The issue is not just about division of property after patriarch´s death. The issues involved are deeper and finer:
It is about betrayal of disciples’ opening of the heart.
The issue is about lack of conscience among the people who claim to be deeply meditative.
The issue is also about the silent majority of disciples who go on swearing about Osho, Osho, Osho and do nothing to take a stand.
Is the dirty work of calling spade not just a spade but fucking spade work of Osho only? I wonder also why for God’s sake he went on harassing and hammering every vested interest. It would have been easier for him to play any other Indian guru and talk only about Advaita, Nirvana, Nothingness, Atman (Anna)?
Instead of appreciating someone who is putting his neck out for the common benefit of others, he is being abused by the very same others. I wonder, is this the Spiritual Growth?
Anyway, I know how to remain in the limits. If someone writes an article about ‘Anna’, surely I will add my comment with the same spirit.
MOD:
WHO OR WHAT IS Anna, PLEASE, Shantam?
To be honest, Shantam, behind all the self-aggrandising rhetoric, the issue is about mediocrities like you, who don’t appear to have gained a great deal from their years with Osho, wanting to create another wretched, Indian-type religion to console themselves with (meanwhile, of course hoping to get plenty of sex with obliging foreign women).
Although you clearly regard yourself as some sort of heroic freedom fighter, resentment and anger are easy tricks to pull off. Until you recognise that YOU have screwed up your life, not anyone else, you’ll remain just another fool, wasting your precious time blaming others and ‘circumstances’ for your plight.
I wonder why you even bother coming on SN – you have no supporters here. Perhaps that makes you feel even more heroic? If so, it’s just another stupid ego game, to be seen through and let drop.
P.S:
Happy Groundhog Day!
https://youtu.be/J1LV6Fsd2HM
ANNA is abbreviation of Advaita Nirvana Nothingness Atman. These common words used to describe serious interest in spirituality.
Again I say, I will follow rules of the game respectfully. It means not to mix political trash into Anna´s garden.
@ Shantam…
https://youtu.be/J-pFfE4RFUU
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In my observation, I don´t see great Swamis doing Osho´s work. What they are doing is simply on the footsteps of Acharya Rajneesh, and that too without fire.
To understand Osho´s work, it is important to watch and grasp not just words but spirit and atmosphere on those videos which took birth when Bhagwan Shree ditched the filthy word ‘Bhagwan’ and embraced a new journey, he was preparing for decades.
Here at sannyasnews too, this is the main contention between me and others. How many in the group of Others Bros. were in the presence of Osho or have seen those videos?
Most of the fellow-bloggers write about their experience with Bhagwan Shree. One can try to write ‘is’ and ‘are’ for the past, ‘was’ and ‘were’ will be still there.
MOD:
SHANTAM, RE 2ND PARAG, he was preparing for decades:
DO YOU MEAN that he had been preparing for decades OR that he was preparing for future decades?
As I remember the discourses of Osho era, He was heard saying that he was waiting for years to drop the filthy title ‘Bhagwan’, that He was waiting for ‘His people’. Here it seems people were not supposed to fall from sky. He has poached from other religions and beliefs; that is why so much talks on mystics.
One can also hear him say that He was using texts of ancient mystics as hanger for his own coat.
Surely Zen mystics were the last hangers. After West, far East was the unconquered territory. When one looks and feels, there was a systematic approach to establish Sannyas as a way of life independent from the old religions, sects and cults.
Osho has worked tirelessly to establish His shop as a one brand store, just like Lacoste T shirts, Levis jeans, Starbucks coffee chain.
Brand has lost the shine because of management blunders. That is not a problem. Problem is analysing the whole thing with false tools and pseudo intellect and bracketing Osho with other Hindus! (Ramana Maharshi, Punja Ji, Ms. Meera, Jaggi Vasudev are HINDUS).
You always leave out an essential factor, that Osho is no longer physically here. So why expect Pune to still be the magnet for many thousands that it once was? It seems you refuse to accept the evidence of common sense, probably because if you did you’d have to let go of the self-importance that oozes from every post you make on the topic, face the stark reality of your situation and do something about it.
Instead of a futile attempt to do the impossible, ‘pushing the river’ and trying to resuscitate something whose time has gone (which, at best, would be only an inferior, watered-down version anyway, especially if you and others of similar mind were to have their way) it would seem about time (in fact, well overdue) that you found a genuine way to connect with whatever inspired you to come to Sannyas in the first place, other than wanting to be part of a large commune where you imagine you’d be ‘happy ever after’.
Alternatively, why not try one of the communal enterprises in India or elsewhere instead of being so foolishly fixated on Pune?
These points are very interesting, Satyadeva. I am sure many people think in these terms. If I explain the history, psychology and the reasons behind, you will say I am pretending to be over- intelligent.
Common problem among the intelligent people is their subtle ego which always puts their peers down. This trait is very much exploited by the Avatara and enlightened type. They create the atmosphere and aura where needy intelligent people have to bow down.
It is like high income earning CEOs and other professionals going to S&M hookers. Those who can hire and fire hundreds of employees feel humble and submissive when a hooker puts a dog collar around their neck and spits on them, humiliates them, drags them.
After an hour of such session, there must be a deep relaxation and satori kind of feeling to engage again with full vigour in wheeling and dealing.
Anyway, I will write point by point answer.
Maybe, Shantam Prem, you would better change the sauna you seem to prefer? It sometimes colours your writing badly.
Thanks, Madhu, I will keep in my mind for next posts to improve the quality of metaphors.
Sauna and fitness where I go have similar energy as one is used to in Pune. May I invite you to visit? You will be positively surprised how German fitness centres are becoming modern day ashrams and churches.
BREAKING NEWS:
Today at 8:00 pm, first time on established Hindi news channels there was a report on prime time Tv titled ‘Who killed Osho?’
When the report is on youtube I would like to translate the contents for the sannyasnews.
My suggestion will be that four closest disciples of that time, Amrito, Anando, Jayesh and Neelam go for forensic lie detector test.
Somewhere. something fishy is going on in the name of Osho. One cannot always have the cake and eat it too and that too without paying the bill. This much immunity no one gets.
This is the video of that “Breaking News”, which may not be breaking news to many of us. It’s amazing that now this is being exposed, were these persons giving the interview in the video sleeping for 23 years, as mentioned in the video?
Anyway, my question is, if this is true, then how come Neelam hugged & kissed Jayesh in public/ Pune Commune? This I have seen with my own eyes till mid-1994. After this period at least I didn’t see any public display of affections from these two.
Anyway, I guess it’s best for me to be an observer at any given time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VWI3DP5NHA
“In my observation, I don´t see great Swamis doing Osho´s work.” (Shantam)
Why would a swami do Osho’s work? Wouldn’t Osho’s work be Osho’s to do? Do you think the word ‘swami’ means ‘doer of my guru’s work’?
Samarpan, that is the best I have ever heard from you. Thanx for enlightening! & cheeers!!!
I should say so.
5000 discourses at least.
Read. Watch and read. Listen.
Always delivered in the present.
Osho is always giving discourse to thousands, somewhere on the planet, at any given moment.
So Osho is finally accepted as Acharya, an inspirational author and mesmerising speaker. Hundreds of millions of Indians had always this constant opinion, Rajneesh is a great speaker but Bhagwan, no way!
For few disciples, it seems a matter of great pride.
Thank you, Kavita. Cheers to you, too!
Shantam declares, “When one looks and feels, there was a systematic approach to establish Sannyas as a way of life independent from the old religions, sects and cults.”
Shantam, perhaps you would care to share how this way of life you are talking about fits into your life? What is it that you believe yourself to be doing or experiencing in relation to this way of life? Unless you actually describe this way of life nobody will know what you are talking about in purely human terms.
If Sannyas was not supposed to be a way of life then why the hell Osho wanted to create a city state and that too in a foreign country? Thousands of people, including our editor, poured their youthful years and money for this magnum though ill-conceived project, for what?
Even after the big fall, Osho did not let go of His vision to have a place where different aspects of life are experimented, including power, sex, money, sharing under the single umbrella called Meditation.
If Sannyas was not a way of life and commune His dream project there was no need for some ‘gullible’ young person like me to be in Pune for 15 years or so. Not for a single day I felt I was not in a sacred place. This conviction in a very sarcastic and proud person is quite something.
If commune was dissolved as per instructions of the founder, who I was to say, please, don´t do? At the age of 27, I would have gone home and got married in a usual way like an obedient son and taken care of my people in their old age.
Osho has mentioned many times, His commune is for intelligent people who are also misfits. I am sure there must be many such people in the world who will benefit from revived Osho Commune in its original glory.
Because it is downgraded into resort by selfish and criminal-minded people, I feel a kind of sacred duty to expose them. Few people are doing this on many levels and it seems within next 24 months, decisive shift will take place. Noose of justice and public opinion is getting tightened.
If many of you at sannyasnews feel no significance of Osho´s commune, that is also well and good. We all have our inner needs, longings, fights and purposes.
It is not that I am sitting in Germany feeling helpless prisoner. I am living another purpose of my life here. Pune is purely a social calling, a job, one of its kind.
MOD: THIS POST HAS BEEN CONSIDERABLY EDITED.
SN IS CONSIDERING WHETHER TO USE THE WHOLE POST AS ANOTHER TOPIC.
Shantam, I asked you the following question:
“Shantam, perhaps you would care to share how this way of life you are talking about fits into your life?”
It is specific. Your response is full of generalisms. The closest you come to providing a coherent answer is in the following, “It is not that I am sitting in Germany feeling helpless prisoner. I am living another purpose of my life here.”
You begin in negation and your second sentence provides not even a hint at what that purpose you mention actually is.
When reading your posts I find that you are full of contradictions. One day you say something, the next something else. A few weeks back you declared you would cut back your Resort rants by 90%. You managed that for a little while and now here you are back at it again.
You provide the perfect example of where most people are coming from. You believe yourself to be one unified being, person, when in fact you are a multiplicity, a crowd, inside.
For all your Osho this and Osho that, I see little in your writing that suggests anything even remotely resembling any kind of inner evolution. You are stuck, and rather than admitting it to yourself, the place one can start to bring about change in one’s inner world, you are actually self-righteous about your stuckness.
This means to me that your association with Osho is not actually doing you any good. It may well be doing you harm, by solidifying your stance, believing your stuckness is the goal, when it is actually a merry-go-round in perpetual motion with you at its fulcrum.
You are not fooling me, but you are certainly fooling yourself. Why do you think it is that masters say that your reality is a state similar to sleepwalking your way through life? They say that because you are asleep to the potential to recognise who you really are. You are not who you think you are and you appear to be thinking far too much, about things that are all to do with the world and nothing to do with that which hosts all those stupid thoughts.
Such is your plight, making you a very normal person, in the sense that you are completely lost in relation to having anything remotely resembling an inner identity. Instead, you take identifying with all and everything as who you are.
No intelligent person will answer to that chap who already knows the answer.
It is like, anyone with eyes can see person who is wearing black goggles is really blind or pretending to be.
I mean it is a common sense that life has many aspects, a rainbow with millions of colours. If people have not this much inner wisdom, it is no good to talk about chemistry with a physician.
Short Story: Master/Disciple Bonding in 21st Century
One young person from faraway West went to India after seeing a inspirational youtube video. He has seen hundreds of youtube clips of various masters, this new one really got his heart. He felt finally he has found that person who is wise as well as honest.
Young western told to the Indian seer, “Sir, it will be my great privilege if you be my master. I am ready to be your disciple.”
Seer said, “I am humbled by your respect. It is call of my duty to suggest you to become my disciple after my death.”
Young western was puzzled, bewildered. In an emotional voice he asked, “But why, Sir?”
Seer answered with smiling face, “Most probably like me, you too have heard about the well-established opinion, Masters are more available when dead.”
“A few weeks back you declared you would cut back your Resort rants by 90%. You managed that for a little while and now here you are back at it again.”
Lokesh, your other points I wish to ignore as they are part of your limited perception. About this point, I wish to clarify, whose posts are fitting with the topic in the string?
Osho´s will on some fithy paper, prima facie forged signature, court cases against the people and by the people who are very meditative and evolved, who have spent many years in great master´s energy and talked with Him one to one; I mean when the topic is political and psychology of crime, how come you expect someone to write something different?
I stay with common sense resolution: if discussion is about Ramana Maharshi´s influence on Osho and his disciples I won´t write anything about Christianity, Islam and Jainism!
Shantam says, “Lokesh, your other points I wish to ignore as they are part of your limited perception.”
How convenient for Shantam. For were he not to ignore what I said to him it would involve having to rewrite the script on the C movie he takes to be his life, a process that would mean having to abandon the muck he is mired in. No surprises there and it makes me question why I bother to try and point out where he is at. A lost cause, just like his one man crusade to bring his personal vision to The Resort, which appears to be running quite well without his presence.
As for the rest, well, who in their right mind could take any of it seriously? Shantam enquires, “how come you expect someone to write something different?” I don’t, especially when it comes to Shantam, a man running like a mouse on a treadmill, in a cage he constructed all by himself.
The way we people built their personalities, it needs equally stubborn friends to say, “You have limited perception and very shoe box kind of inner development.”
A man who has seen only the resorts in Ibiza talks about Pune, where he has not visited for last three decades and more, shows how screwed and ugly mind becomes when provoked.
What a highly stupid Nonsense to say I am trying to bring my personal vision to some place. That is why Lokesh, your chapter ended with Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh of Pune, Osho is just a copy/paste word over the deleted name.
Though it does not mean you have no wisdom or inner depth. Most of the people on any spiritual path get some kind of more than average depth. But it is not run-of-the-mill, factory made. If two leaves are not the same, shallowness and depth too cannot be the same.
So in my eyes, it is highly arrogant to judge others in their subjectivity.
“…shows how screwed and ugly mind becomes when provoked.
What a highly stupid Nonsense to say I am trying to bring my personal vision to some place.”
As usual, Shantam’s critical remarks apply to himself – and as usual, it’s hopeless to expect him to he see this, as he simply can’t (or won’t). I had a good laugh at his “highly stupid Nonsense” remark, a classic of its kind!
Arguing with him is akin to arguing with anyone with a religious or political axe to grind, anyone whose beliefs and values are set in stone, as it were, eg a dyed-in-the-wool Marxist or a born-again Christian or a Jehovah’s Witness (or Donald Trump). Futile, as they already think they know the answers according to whatever authority they think they’re following.
The only possible mitigating factor in Shantam’s case is that for him, the Sannyas scene he took part in was rather like the 60s and 70s etc. for westerners, a total cultural turnaround of conditioning, standards, expectations etc., extreme enough for Europeans and Americans, but far more so for one from his exceptionally conservative, traditional-minded Sikh background – a kind of ‘born again’ situation indeed.
Given this level of personal upheaval, which I wouldn’t underestimate, although he’s had a long time for it to settle, it seems he still needs (or thinks he needs and/or thinks sannyasins and potential sannyasins need) a large community to outwardly reflect something of what he himself thinks he’s aspiring to (which, of course, he identifies – and clings to – as “Osho’s Vision for the New Humanity”).
As we’ve seen for a long time, however, Shantam’s capacity for self-perception often appears lacking, or rather primitive, or even non-existent, hence more like self-deception, dominated as he invariably appears to be, by an emotionalism that consumes much of his intelligence.
So, on all current and previous evidence, what he and those like him would actually ‘achieve’ in such a community – especially in one where the master has long since departed – would seem to be very much open to question.
I was in the sun thinking about my last post, so came home to apologise for the phrase, “What a highly stupid Nonsense to say…”
It is Lokesh´s style to demoralise people who don´t fit into his frame, not mine. He is Sagittarius, I am Pisces; astrologically speaking, if one looks east, another looks north.
Most of the human conflicts can be resolved if we know the operative software inside of us and others. Modern astrology in the hands of British and American astrologers is becoming more and more sharp to understand our individual psychology. Once we know this, there is no question of judging others but appreciating.
Surely I judge the judges. As India is, nuclear weapons are only for defence purposes. Without strong defence, India became the victim of brutal forces of foreign origin.
Although I do not doubt different planets’ influence upon human life, I often view astro buff prattle as a convenient form of pigeonholing.
I’m quite sure that Osho contradicted it, but I once heard him say that astrology and tarot are for people who lack significance in their lives. Certainly might apply to Shantam.
Lokesh, I have forgotten the writer but it was a British author who wrote, “In astrology practice, one sees minimum clients from the sign Sagittarius.”
I can say for sure. Jupiter is the most beneficial planet who bestows wisdom and easy chances to ride up in the ladder. When wind blows in your favour, one feels like philosopher, teacher, judge of the world.
Shadow side of Sagittarius is too many promises, too little delivery but without any malefic intention.
I have not much interest in predictive astrology, but to understand human psychology it is wonderful subject. I will be glad to discuss any bloggers’ astro-psychology on one-to-one basis on Skype, without any fees.
Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
Again, your knowledge of the wisdom of the ancient indian science of starsigns emanates from a pair of afflicted asteroids that are circling in the vicinity of Uranus!
Yahoo!
One contemporary teacher once said there are four types of people on a spectrum of ‘knowledge’. I’m not sure if he meant ‘ordinary’ knowledge or self-knowledge, or even both, but let’s apply the following to the latter:
Those that know a lot and want a lot
Those that know a lot and want little
Those that know little and want little
Those that know little and want a lot.
Shantam fits into the last category – the most potentially dangerous of all, either to others or to themselves (or both).
These are the types, the possibly (but not necessarily) well-meaning mediocre, that want to create religions, because they confuse simply being among large numbers with being ‘spiritual’.
SD,
Typo error on the word ‘want’, surely?
Ah yes, that k comes in mighty handy as far as Shantam goes…er…I’m lost…er…for words.
Thank you, Frank. Having spent many hours researching and meditating on this matter, I have reached the conclusion that you are…
Perfectly correct!
”because they confuse simply being among large numbers with being ‘spiritual’.”
You’ve articulated something I’ve been trying to articulate for God knows how long. That awareness had been firkling around the back of my brain for ever, but you said it perfectly; but also from a different angle to my own. (Someone young would probably say this was awesome).