Subjective Experiences are as unique and Private as Individual DNA
Shantam Prem Opines
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In India, which is sometimes seen as a spiritual capital of the world, it is a common theme among meditators and devotees from different schools to go around asking others,
“What kind of achievement (Uplabdhi) do you get from your Master and his path?”
Shantam
Invariably, people who ask this on a regular basis are Jehovah the Witness type puritans who have already a high self-opinion about their true path.
Answers too have a set pattern. Much variation on a theme of: “I feel joy, I feel peace. I feel energy rising on the backbone, I feel hot ball energy on my forehead, it is not head ache, you have to have it to feel it, it cannot be explained.”
I am a Sikh who became a disciple of a not so respected Osho. As a result I was often asked about Inner ‘Uplabdhi’ with their intended follow up question, such that they can show me a better path (Theirs!).
Whosoever the person, my answer had and has always the same intonation, “I have no interest about inner achievement. I am not one of those to check my bank passbook, enquiring endlessly as to how much interest has come in the investment. For me it is enough of an achievement that I care not how many masters exist, and neither do I care whether Osho is a true master or a false one.
Up until today, Osho is not a saviour kind for me, but an architect type, who has a new plan to reconstruct man’s inner software such that it produces a more loving, intelligent and rebellious humanity.
As I remember, during my Osho ashram years in the nineties, fellow disciples never bothered others to enquire about inner achievement, nobody even asked others, “Are you meditating or only hanging around?” Hanging around too was a kind of meditation!
However at sannyasnews, I am often being bombarded by enquirers about my meditative state. I remember it parallels my then ‘back home’ days from the ashram.
It is surely not a sannyasin’s way to judge the subjectivity of others. I don´t think Meditation is that kind of wonder drug which can heal cough and constipation and create people who think in a similar way. In fact the opposite. Thankfully, subjective life is not mathematics where every learned person must answer the same for any puzzle of addition, subtraction, multiplication or division.
With this background, I request readers of this piece to write about their own inner depth and spiritual experiences. I am curious how they write. I will learn too!
Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
The absurdity of these western baboons who question the subjective state of one such as you!What uplabdhi cheek they are having!
It is quite clear to ones like ourselves, who know, that you are what is known, in the parlance of mighty India, the spiritual capital of the world, as a “Wahan Kaur”! Indeed, I will even go so far as to say that you are an absolute and complete wahan kaur!
And you are right, through association with Osho you have changed inner software! From holy chuddy to Y fronts, which has been a major force in acceptance of the philosophy of the holy lingam of mighty Bhorat for white-skinned gora girl aspirants to mindlessness from spiritual wasteland!
Certainly you are showing the deep insight that one has come to expect from such an exponent of the wisdom of mighty Bhorat that “meditation is not a wonder drug”!
Perfectly correct! For that is necessary, like you, to take the Prozac or other SSRIs, then you will not care about anything, whether meditating, hanging around or ejaculating mindlessly and incessantly at keyboard!
All is one!
Subjective life is not like arithmetic or maths, as you have wisely said, so it is absolutely clear that if, in your subjective world, 2+2=5, then which self-righteous Jehovahs the Witness baboon on Sannyasnews can dare contradict you?!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Upbladi `ell!
Yeeeeeeeeeeeessssss!!!!!!! Anand yogi is back, as nasty as you never knew him before.
Thanks, Parmartha, for polishing the piece so finely that I feel like a lady coming out from the spa.
Thanks also for respecting my request to create a string out of this piece. It is written spontaneously in one go of 10, 15 minutes with the idea behind: “I don´t want to be blamed for writing always about filthy politics and conflict of interests in the name of Osho.”
I hope friends will share their thoughts generously about life around meditation and search for spiritual solace.
Dear Shantam Prem,
I went a little bit in research (in Osho News, 4th June, 2016); it’s one of the chapters in ‘Books I Have Loved’, chapter ten, donated to all of us Madmen, who are at times so much into talking it through…
Found THIS:
“Ludwig Wittgenstein was really a lovable man. I don’t hate him, but I don’t dislike him. I like him and I love him, but not his book. His book is only gymnastics. Only once in a while, after pages and pages, you may come across a sentence which is luminous. For example: “That which cannot be spoken should not be spoken; one should be silent about it. Now this is a beautiful statement. Even saints, mystics, poets, can learn much from this sentence. That which cannot be spoken must not be spoken of.” (Osho)
Re-reading this simply blew my mind for a considerable moment.
Maybe you like that (quote) too?
Madhu
Interesting, Shantam – but not at all surprising – that you describe Sannyas (etc.) as a “search for spiritual solace”.
According to the dictionary, ‘solace’ is:
“comfort or consolation in a time of great distress or sadness, eg: She sought solace in her religion.
Synonyms: comfort, consolation, cheer, support, relief: They tried to find solace in pictures of their little girl as they wanted to remember her.”
That’s exactly what religion is for the vast majority of people, nothing whatsoever to do with truth and reality-seeking. My guess is that this invitation of yours to describe so-called ‘spiritual experiences’ is on a similar level, just another entertainment for you, just another diversion, something unusual to think about, to pass the time – a sort of “consolation”.
But so what, if one has had an ‘experience’? Surely, if it has any validity, it becomes part of you and there’s no need to either repeat it or think about it or discuss it. The real work is integrating it into one’s ordinary life, and that is essentially a private matter.
I suspect that for many, an obsession with others’ ‘spiritual experiences’ might well be on a par with sexual prurience, invariably arising from personal lack or competitiveness – and for Indians, including you, Shantam, almost certainly!
There is much I could comment on in Shantam’s wee essay. Basically, his writing is a declaration of where he thinks he is at. Come tomorrow, it’s anyone’s guess where he will imagine himself to be and who he thinks he is. Such is the nature of Shantam.
That said, I will respond to what Shantam says here:
“I request readers of this piece to write about their own inner depth and spiritual experiences. I am curious how they write. I will learn too.”
Spiritual experiences? I have had perhaps thousands of them. I think many of the regulars here on SN can relate to that. In regards my own spiritual experiences I reckon they had a beneficial effect, because they helped me reach where I am now.
Where I am now? For a start, I still have spiritual experiences but I no longer actively seek them. The same goes for external manifestations in the form of gurus. Looking to have spiritual experiences is primary school activity. Osho set many people in the right direction by encouraging them to be a witness. Being a witness has a purpose: to bring one on to the next level. This is because that as long as you are aware that you are witnessing, for instance, spiritual experiences, the next level, up or in, has not been attained.
That place has many names and it is not, strictly speaking, a place. Words are very limited and my understanding of Sanskrit and Tibetan is limited. Those languages have more accurate terms for inner states than, say, English. So this place, state I am talking about is when the witness merges with awareness. There then exists an impersonal witnessing consciousness that has no place for limited ego self.
It is good to have a teacher around who knows what is what when entering such a state; the path is narrow, a razor’s edge, the pitfalls many. Osho was not able to provide such guidance, generally speaking, because his role dictated that he work on a very big scale, thousands of people. That is why I believe he said, “If I do not finish the job I will guide you to another master.” I believed him. It is true. The truth always comes true.
I see it that the journey never ends, it is a process of infinite unfoldment. Spiritual experiences are fine. The real deal is diving into that which experiences. As Jimi Hendrix so poetically put it.
So-er, are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well, I have…
Ah, let me prove it to you…
Trumpets and violins, I can hear in the distance
I think they’re calling our names
Maybe now you can’t hear them, but you will
If you just take hold of my hand.
Great stuff. Gabriel, blow your horn.
Shantam Prem says Osho has “a new plan to reconstruct man’s inner software such that it produces a more loving, intelligent and rebellious humanity.”
I never saw Osho as having plans, I must say, Shantam Prem.
He may have gone on about “humanity” when it suited him, but the real silent work of a Master is invariably with the inner software of the individual sannyasin. If a few become united with God, and their personal identity erased, then the master has done his work.
If that happens, all well and good, and maybe through those individuals, humanity will be changed, though frankly, when someone points out how the real world is in Yemen or Syria at the moment, I can’t see it. You could argue on the contrary that humanity has slipped back over a millennium.
On your invitation to write about spiritual experiences I am dumb. There are no psychedelics here, just the ordinary round of washing up, visiting friends and noticing the sky.
PM says, “the ordinary round of washing up, visiting friends, and noticing the sky.”
Groovy!
“Subjective Experiences are as unique and Private as Individual DNA” (SN sub-heading).
Besides the fact, SN folks and Parmartha, that uttering subjective experiences, Privacy, and also Individual DNA, when brought into the public and/or into scientific labs to ‘play’ with and to experiment with, quite a lot, which had meaning yesterday, lost its meaning today. You are not at all dumb, Paramartha, when writing: “There are no psychedelics here, just the ordinary round of washing up, visiting friends and noticing the sky.”
I meet you there, in the ordinary round of washing up…
The sky is clear here today, Sunday sky, summer holiday time and soon, I guess, the kids, who stayed here on vacation will show up with their elders and go into play, all together with the so- called grown-ups.
As far as the, in my eyes, extended trolling and mobbing per posting pictures goes, in that special thread, I am not part of it in terms of contribution. I have my doubts that such provides a good outcome (result) of a seemingly 8 years UK SN Chat connection with Shantam Prem on an approximately daily basis.
But, who knows? I don´t.
Have a nice Sunday, everybody.
Madhu
It’s…
How come there isn’t a LIKE button on SN?
Yeah, man, I can dig it. But…but…like, who is pressing the button, man?
Despair not, all victims of injustice and oppression in K Park…
Help is at hand….
There’s something funny going on….
He`s on the case….
Be careful…
He`s a master of disguise, too….
Crivens! His sporran has turned blue with the cold.
Where the on-board entertainment is….
Sikh seeks pin-up girl.
She is great! No messing around! You are what you are!
“Subjective Experiences are as unique and Private as Individual DNA” – this first sentence of this thread. And he ends it with: “I request readers of this piece to write about their own inner depth and spiritual experiences. I am curious how they write. I will learn too.” Very confusing!
This writer’s expectations in the form of request is too high!
There was a sad guru from Pune
Who was a preposterous buffoon
He fantasised about being big in religion
A delusion that was met with derision
And ended up a laughing-stock for baboons.
This is the fucking liberty people take when they write their shit faceless. One cannot imagine this is the man who was following Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh aka Osho everywhere.
There was a man from Jullunder
Who suffered from delusions of grandeur
He thought he was religious
But really, he was litigious
And in matters of love, a one-hander.
Laugh of the Day!
(You utter bastard, Frank. Going round calling a spade a spade. ROTFLMAO).
Shantam, you should have expected all that you’ve got.
Don’t mess with the guys here…They are pitiless!
Anyway, thanks for the thread, I really had loads of fun….
XXX
There is an ancient and well-kept secret to happiness which the Great Ones have known for centuries. They rarely talk about it, but they use it all the time, and it is fundamental to good mental health. This secret is called The Fine Art of Not Being Offended.
In order to truly be a master of this art, one must be able to see that every statement, action and reaction of another human being is the sum result of their total life experience to date. In other words, the majority of people in our world say and do what they do from their own set of fears, conclusions, defences and attempts to survive.
Most of it, even when aimed directly at us, has nothing to do with us. Usually, it has more to do with all the other times, and in particular the first few times, that this person experienced a similar situation, usually when they were young.
“In other words, the majority of people in our world say and do what they do from their own set of fears, conclusions, defences and attempts to survive.”
Don’t YOU just, Lokesh?
It is good when Osho comments on Buddha. The Buddha said: “I gained nothing, I just lost what was in excess.” Buddha was really a master.
Shantam Prem says Osho has “a new plan to reconstruct man’s inner software such that it produces a more loving, intelligent and rebellious humanity.”
Consciousness, compassion and unpredictability. That promised in ‘Psychology Of The Esoteric’, indescribable.
No thanks to Osho! Never met him. You do the work your Self. You can’t carry ego with you, how can you carry a Guru? Don’t insult me, I am part of you!
Haha. Frank, U seem to be only reasonable person here. All these people who surrounded Osho are like a stone which remains in the river for years but does not absorb a single drop of water. dry inside. They are driven by ego, not by self.
Perfectly correct, Anuz!
These stone-like baboons surrounding Osho do not absorb a single drop of the holy water, whereas the reasonableness of Frank shines through like a shaft of gold in the spiritual cesspit and dark, dark night of the soul that is Sannyasnews!
His light shines through whilst all around is dark, like a veritable torrent of amber effluent falling from a Kingfisher airways night-flight from Delhi to Varanasi on which air hostesses are handing out free beer during an outbreak of incontinence!
Frank is, as you clearly point out, utterly undriven by ego and, unlike the idiotic stones of SN who sit in the river for years and are driven only by ego, Frank is quietly and devotedly utterly immersed in the self!
He is the latest superhero in the lineage of mighty Bhorat, which reaches back 5000 yugas from Adman, Hanuman through Supersikh to Atman!
His wisdom eclipses even the diurnal and nocturnal emissions that fly forth from Shantambhai’s mighty lingam (the future saviour of our mighty religion) and splatter incessantly onto his facebook wall!
Anus, you seem to be a man of great wisdom and insight!
When the disciple is ready the master appears!
Swami Bhorat has noticed your potential and needs men of your calibre for the cause of mighty Bhorat!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Shri Ram Jai Ram
Jai Jai Frank!
Thanks, Yogi, it is a special gift for this special day: a tiny bit of ‘non-mind’!
I don’t know how you manage in doing it. Maybe you are gifted! XX
Perfectly correct, Tan!
To speak from the beyond and the behind is certainly the greatest gift that the sages of mighty Bhorat have foisted on the world!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!