Satsang’s Genesis and Nemesis

What India meant by satsang corrupted by the interface
with the West
: Shantam offers his view

Living in a small Indian town off the beaten track. Living modestly in a stable family, beautifully changing weather, starry nights and a cool breeze; therein comes the wow for all that it is.

In such places life is not isolated as in the big cities, people greet, meet and visit each other.
Once a week after the afternoon Siesta, by dint of ancient good habits, millions of moms and grand moms in thousands of small towns and villages gather around sensitive beings to listen to the deeper things of life, and share their daily life experience. Within a month or so, someone starts singing Bhajans to celebrate the atmosphere, and Satsang begins to happen.

These souls slowly gain recognition, they offer themselves to be present at times of grief in the neighbourhood and console people. Life feels meaningful in their presence, and such souls became known as signposts for existence itself.

For thousands of years this pattern has been going on, and preserving sanity in hard times. In psychological jargon, Satsangs were healing the wounds of collective pain, failure and depression.
No psychologists, no organised priesthood was there – and these sensitive souls served the people without hankering for any recognition.

But with the advent of traveling ease developed by the “restless west”, many western people started to find out these humble souls, and felt wonder, and also wondered about the source of their bliss.

It is like Horse goes to see Cows and feels wonder how peacefully they go on chewing grass day after day and no desire to run and jump and play Polo. Just happy to watch the shadow in the small pond and feeling like Basho. So beautiful and mesmerising! Such is the human nature, horse goes to the cow and want to learn the tricks of being here and now. And in this way, horse race shower the title of Enlightened beings to this saintly cows.

So “recognition” followed from those who came from outside India, and sadly from this flowed the first seeds of ego in these sensitive souls. They began to speak from the origins of Indian wisdom and life to people who have basically a different set of life problems, social environment and family norms, and to whom it was and is inappropriate and occasionally dangerous.

I have much admiration for those thousands and thousands of lay persons who chair small Satsang gatherings throughout India and serve their communities through their talks, gossips and simple presence.

But to see inflated Satsang givers, speaking about bloody ego and oneness and enlightenment, I have only one question, – do you know what it feels like to come from a broken family. Mom going for date with someone else other than dad. Then you have the children, and your own wife asks for divorce and the house, and than you get the news, your son is on drugs and your daughter is earning as a Page 3 girl.

That is the west, and also the India of 2030, and the modalities will have to change.

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211 Responses to Satsang’s Genesis and Nemesis

  1. Raghu says:

    Oh, yes Shantam, you are right, I am sorry to say if it hurts western people but yes, once western people start to come to Osho, He start ytalking about relationship, Mins andd all modern probelm, before that Osho usetd to talk about Meditaion, Samadhi, Bhakti, Trust and all…you can see all Osho discoureses before 1974 are very diffreent than later on….soem how I feel west is a probelm for Osho’s work….why Osho put 5 people from India???? And Why Neelma was so powerfull and all power Osho gave her…??? once Neelam left Commune….in a few years….west has taekn over and now…each and every thing from Osho is in one person hand…I heard now they have created new basho….five star standerd…BASHO….poor Indians…want there master’s place with love and Bhakati…kirtan and songs………they wants to clean that floor with there tears….No film songs, wine, smoking….no RESORT…BUT Asharam….beloved masters Asharam….TIRTH…

  2. Lokesh says:

    Shantam offers his view, which at best is a very limited one that delivers the somewhat egocentric notion that the Indian subcontinent is the original fountain from whence all things wise and wonderful sprang.
    The idea of east meets west was refreshing in the sixties but thanks to our global unification, due partly to telecommunications and our collective desire for all things material, is now completely obsolete.
    God wasn’t invented in India. People have been getting in touch with bigger things than our limited ego self for thousands of years, and many of them have never heard of the trimurti. There are many movements taking place in the world today that have absolutely nothing to do with the philosophies and theologies that originated in the east. Ever heard of ayahuasca? That is just one example of many.

    Then we have this absurd statement: But to see inflated Satsang givers, speaking about bloody ego and oneness and enlightenment. I have only one question, – do you know what it feels like to come from a broken family.
    Apart from the fact that it is difficult to find a connection between the two parts of the statement it simply leaves me wondering what is Shantam’s problem, because he is constantly reporting how Osho’s work can save the world, and yet most of Osho’s work had to do with… You guessed it: ego and oneness and enlightenment.
    Everyone has to begin somewhere and for many it is with ”Satsang givers, speaking about bloody ego and oneness and enlightenment”. Where did Shantam start? Don’t tell me….with the master of masters.
    One thing that I find in general in most of these blogs that is quite prevalent is that we all find it easy to knock things but, when it comes to delivering some kind of positive vision, many of us are not coming up with something constructive. Is this a sign of the destructive times we find ourselves living in?

  3. Chinmaya says:

    Hey Shantam,

    Very well said the truth of your heart and picturesque view of culture of India. In Metro cities in India, the modalities are changed and changing in second rate cities surrounded by Metro cities, your forecast for 2030 has already started. Live-in Relationship is often noticed. Its nomenclature is replaced from Sat-sang to some other…….sang. Paying Guest is the other name of Satsang and is happening through Mobile, in the form of some other topics. To say ‘good night’ is happening at four or five of next day morning. Time is changing at a fast speed in India.

  4. frank says:

    hey,gandhi,

    think about this one as you wax lyrical about your desi delusions….
    left to the wishes and dictates of this retro religious paradise of yours,
    without the american war of independence,the french revolution,the suffragettes,alexander fleming,albert hoffman,to name but a few,do you think you would ever had a chance to get jiggy with some western girls?
    or eastern girls,for that matter.

  5. Lokesh says:

    He has a point.

  6. frank says:

    but seriously,shantam,
    really you sound like a cross between the dad in “goodness gracious me” who insists that everything really originated in india and a classic british “daily mail” reader who is convinced that public morals have gone to the dogs since the sixties.
    and this from a shagtastic follower of neo-sannyas?
    get a grip,man!

  7. Satya Deva says:

    I like the online Shantam, but he also has this tendency to be rather sentimental….

  8. frank says:

    but i agree that these shameless satscammers with their insane declarations of their own importance and enlightenment have detracted from the main point….

    watch your body
    watch your emotions
    watch your mind
    anytime anyplace
    now.
    celebrate it and have fun.
    that`s it.

    dont be a mug and pay to watch some other guy sitting in a chair who says he`s doing it better than you and then gets your girlfriend to blow him after the gig.

    it`s not rocket surgery!

    come on!

  9. Amano says:

    osho has much to offer to east and to west and not the vic -versa.

    osho and his vision is only hope for world .

  10. Lokesh says:

    Amano you say: osho and his vision is only hope for world

    If that is true you won’t mind explaining what you mean by this statement. To the unenlightened like myself it sounds extremely vague.

  11. shantam prem says:

    ….. we all find it easy to knock things but, when it comes to delivering some kind of positive vision, many of us are not coming up with something constructive. Is this a sign of the destructive times we find ourselves living in?

    Just the other week, Rajneesh mentioned about Osho Cocom, and see how the people like wolves jumped over him. Naturally with all the Right logics, he was lynched at this site.

  12. shantam prem says:

    he is constantly reporting how Osho’s work can save the world, and yet most of Osho’s work had to do with… You guessed it: ego and oneness and enlightenment.

    I think more than 500 comments are registered by this Shantam; in not a single one i have dared to say, Osho^`s work can save the world.
    Yet for the record, i want to write it with all the adjectives that Osho is in the for front of modren spirituality.
    To save the world, Can steven jobs Apple save the world?
    No…but the same old facilites he has packed in a very chic format. His products are also Made in China, but developed with minute observation and marketing trends.

    I won^t hesitate to say that beloved Osho is not less than microsoft and apple founders. This one man is the salt of the salt of India what the other twos are for America.

    Now the question is why such a far out man could not touch the imagination of the world at large 20 years after His departure.
    Not due to the lack in His teachings, but because of the bloody ego which is as rotten as the English football….
    Here you are right Lokesh….Bloody ego and the art of transandence ffor oneness…and Enlightenment.

  13. shantam prem says:

    Frank, You can satire daily mail readers like many of English snobes, just want to tell you i am reading Time, newsweek, IHT &FT( can you guess the full name from the abbrevation of these newpapers) in paper edition for more than 2 decades.

    Try few time yourself as a meditation, 10 minutes Independent, 10 minutes Mirror, 10 minutes Guardian than 10 minutes Dailymail and silence for 20 minutes.
    once the meditation goes deeper, one can see beyond the dress of a nunn or a street girl.
    THis is oneness….

  14. shantam prem says:

    If one knows what is between the legs, between the armpits one can also find the way to allmighty or name and formlessness.
    Do any country, culture land has a monopoly over such things.

    YET…
    Why The Bangla desis and Pakis don^t open the restaurant representing their countries. Why Indian Restaurant??
    Reasons are obvious.
    Same is with Satsang..
    Let the white Satsang givers use a world from their mother tounge. Original face with Original language.

  15. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem:
    Just the other week, Rajneesh mentioned about Osho Cocom, and see how the people like wolves jumped over him. Naturally with all the Right logics, he was lynched at this site.

    SD:
    SP, you yourself have several times acknowledged this rajneesh’s (note the lower case ‘r’!) er, somewhat dubious credentials.

    I’ve gone further, convinced he’s just a bloody fraud and as such, deserves all the flak he gets , and more, on here, anywhere.

    If Osho were alive, this imp[ostor would be laughed out of sight…

    From that perspective, it’s very hard, if not impossible, to accept that anything truly good can arise from an enterprise where he is a prime mover (let alone holding the financial power).

    If you believe otherwise, I say you’re a breathtakingly gullible fool.

    But, frankly, the world of ‘spiritual seekers’ is well populated by gullible fools, so I guess it’s all just par for the course….

  16. Satya Deva says:

    Lokesh

    Amano you say: osho and his vision is only hope for world

    If that is true you won’t mind explaining what you mean by this statement. To the unenlightened like myself it sounds extremely vague.

    MN:
    I’m afraid you’ll never get an adequate response to such a question, Lokesh.

    People who parrot such cliches seem lost in a sort of idealised personal dream-world and as such, out of touch with ‘reality’.

    All this obsession with the collective, ‘the world’ – as if Osho never dealt with the far more pressing, far more practical, realistic issue:

    How can I realise in myself, Love and Truth? (Or something like that, but you surely know what I’m getting at?!).

  17. Lokesh says:

    Yes, I know what you mean. I have to add that the notion that the world needs saving is in itself a misguided notion.

  18. Satya Deva says:

    frank
    but i agree that these shameless satscammers with their insane declarations of their own importance and enlightenment have detracted from the main point….

    watch your body
    watch your emotions
    watch your mind
    anytime anyplace
    now.
    celebrate it and have fun.
    that`s it.

    SD:
    Sounds so easy, so simple…But if it’s that straightforward how come many thousands of spiritual seekers don’t appear to have ‘got it’ yet?!

    Isn’t it a bit like describing how to play football?:
    run around
    pass the ball to your side
    stop the other side getting the ball
    kick the ball into their goal
    stop the ball getting in your goal
    have fun
    celebrate!

    No need to listen to ‘coaches’ advice, they’re all egotistical fools, out to exploit you…

    All true masters of their trade – sportsmen, musicians, artists, craftsmen – make it look easy. But invariably, behind that consummate mastery lies a lifetime of dedication and hard work, as well as natural, God-given gifts.

    Why should the ‘spiritual search’ be essentially different?

  19. Alok john says:

    I am quite sympathetic to Shantam’s article.

    There are an awful lot of Westerners offering “satsang” whom I would never sit with including Dolano, Satyam Nadeem, Oshana, Byron Katie, Maitreya,
    Tyohar, John de Ruiter, Tony Parsons. Doesn’t Vereesh offer “satang” as well?

  20. Alok john says:

    Doesn’t Vereesh offer “satsang” as well?

  21. Alok john says:

    Of course there are Indian conmen as well such as Samdarshi and Rajneesh of “Tears of the Mystic Rose” fame.

  22. Lokesh says:

    Where there is muck there’s gold.
    Now then, my Scottish mind has been at work and says I should start to give satsangs. I’ll only charge a moderate fee at first until the mega babe seekers start flying in followed by hoards of horny male seekers. I’ll tell everyone to be free and get tantricked as much as possible. If anyone asks a question that I don’t have a good answer to I’ll just say, ‘Who is asking the question?’ It is so easy. Scarface had it worked out….first you get the money, then you get the power and then you get the woman. Ho ho, I can’t wait to get going. The thing is, I don’t want to make any mistakes so any information that any of you might be willing to offer to avoid the pitfalls on the spiritual path to fame and fortune will be most humbly appreciated by me, His Holiness Swami Lokesh. Come on don’t be shy, we’re all one, afterall.
    PS. Not a word of this to my wife, because if she finds out about my latest scam there will be hell to pay.

  23. frank says:

    sd,
    following the football analogy.
    the england team(disciples)would have been a lot better off if their coach(guru)hadn`t been(like all gurus) so dictatorial and authoritarian….
    the disciples could have picked their own team and would have done better(could they have done worse?)
    they might even have won the world cup(got enlightened)

    so there it is .
    rigid coaches restrict freedom of expression and (more important for me) the basic joy of the game.
    they try to impose systems that dont suit the players.
    and always try to deny that they`ve fluffed it……
    they blame the players……

    w****kers!

  24. Lokesh says:

    Ehm…well…thanks Frank…but I’m rooting for Spain. Where does that leave me? I mean like…ehm..besides being in a hot country. I just want to make a wee bit of fame and fortune giving satsangs, you know.

  25. frank says:

    lokesh,
    there`s good news and bad news…..
    the good news is,you dont have to give up any of your old habits.you can drink,smoke,pop pills whoosh the whipped cream,have sex with your disciples,male and female,watch scricket,play golf, and watch your bank account and property portfolio grow exponentially….
    all at the same time,if you want….
    just remember to remind your disciples that you are doing it out of compassion for them just so you can stay grounded on this planet just a little longer….

    the bad news is,the wife has gotta go.

    did you ever hear of a guru who had an equal relation with his female partner?
    no way.
    totally egoless guys cant do that.
    why not,you ask?
    er..(fixed,unblinking gaze) it is a paradox…remember.
    thinking cannot get you to the truth…

    also,are you shorter than average,and is your cranium slghtly too large in proportion to the rest of your body?
    yes?
    well,then,this is how it goes……

    “i am god
    you are god.
    the only difference is that i know that i am god and you dont know that you are god.
    if you accept me as god,
    then you accept the god in yourself.
    if you deny that i am god,
    then you are denying the god in yourself
    accept that i am god and you will become god…..”

    it`s never failed yet.
    all the best.

  26. Satya Deva says:

    I’d tend to agree with your take on the football, Frank.

    Not sure it’s an entirely appropriate analogy for the ‘spiritual game’ – except for the established religions of course.

  27. frank says:

    lokesh.and where does that leave you?you ask,
    as a fellow trainee sit-down artist and wannabe guru myself,you wont mind if i practice on you a bit…….
    you were a spanish conquistador in your past life,so it is natural that you support spain.and now seek the truth which is more valuable than gold in this life….
    you have chosen to incarnate again at this auspicious moment for spanish consciousness
    i have been waiting for you for many centuries…
    there is much important work to be done….
    pass the san miguel and the remote control…….

  28. Chinmaya says:

    Frank dear,

    Very true and original thoughts.
    If a Guru had good relations with his partner, he would not have become a Guru.

  29. Amano says:

    my statement that osho is only hope for world means east and west can not solve their problems unless they turn to osho . i believe deep in my heart that osho has solutations for problems world is facing now like climate change , wars, so on and on ……osho has real solutions because he is much more above than therpist and super therpist and pyschologist , he is greatly enlightlened one and world needs him more than any other time.

  30. Lokesh says:

    Frank, thanks for amusing comments and tips on how to make it as a guru. Unfortunately my wife found out about my latest scam and my career as a satsang giver and therfore my career is over before it started. She says I’m not allowed out for a week and she has locked me in a cellar where I am writing to you from now. You see how it all comes around to the here and now….another of those lines I’d planned to use in my satsangs. Now I feel depressed. No mega babes, no Swiss accounts, no fleet of flash cars. It’s so dark I can no longer see the light. A real dark night of the soul.

    Amano…you’re joking, right?

  31. joel says:

    I sat with Thyoar ,in Costa Rica , and…yes it was really
    inspiring!
    Joel

  32. shantam prem says:

    Amano, how so ever beautifully and with simplicity Osho has spoken about the world, problems and solutions, one thing is very clear; if His own people cannot find a way out from a small tunnel forget about the big contracts to make national highways.
    Simply forget!!

    It is like a honest police chief has to resign, If his children are part of drug and money trafiking.

    With all my love and gratitude for Osho; it is good to remmeber that on the earth divine meets humanity.
    We human beings has many flaws and we commit many mistakes including Rama or Krishna, Jesus and our Master from Jabalpur, Osho.
    Somehow He has left a wrong precedent that look at the black spots on other people’s jackets but about your own, simply cover it with the shawl.

    For example, so many times he has bored people with his boasting about Rajneeshpuram and never accepted the responsibilty as a Boss.
    Here he was side tracking, I was just a guest!

    So if Osho wants to be establised in the world at large, His people, the bosses need to climb down from the tent hanging on their sticks.

  33. shantam prem says:

    There are an awful lot of Westerners offering “satsang” whom I would never sit with including Dolano, Satyam Nadeem, Oshana, Byron Katie, Maitreya,
    Tyohar, John de Ruiter, Tony Parsons. Doesn’t Vereesh offer “satang” as well?
    Of course there are Indian conmen as well such as Samdarshi and Rajneesh of “Tears of the Mystic Rose” fame.

    Alok John, you have boiled them all in one pot of cannabis without even a customary summary trial, an indepth article will be appreciated about the psyhcology of these people and their modus operandi.

  34. Lokesh says:

    There are an awful lot of Westerners offering “satsang” whom I would never sit with. AJ, I understand your problem. There is no need to suffer further. The chemist sells creams, like pilogel, for that sort of physical complaint.

  35. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem:
    For example, so many times he has bored people with his boasting about Rajneeshpuram and never accepted the responsibilty as a Boss.
    Here he was side tracking, I was just a guest!

    SD:
    Have to agree there, SP. By appointing Sheela & co. he showed he wasn’t up to that particular job.

  36. shantam prem says:

    Just to find one Sheela as a whiping goat is too simplifying.
    I was not there at Puram, but the way one sees and reads history and the behaviour of the present day players, it is not difficult to presume that different groups were working against each other, to get the attention of their beloved Master.
    The inner circle around Osho was full with palace politics and may be Osho was aware about this and who knows enjoying this too, the game humans play.

    But on the whole it will not make His contribution less worthy.

  37. shantam prem says:

    And who says Osho has not learnt from the debacle of Puram phase.
    This time He did not left command in one hand but appointed many generals for different regions.
    But again strongers ones sidelined the heartfull ones.
    In this way these strong people have easy to maintain garden but fragranceless roses.

  38. Aman says:

    ‘Satsang’ means ‘to be with truth’; it has nothing to do with India or west.
    As per as Truth is concern, nobody can corrupt because Truth is everywhere under the Sun, Sky, trees or with anyone who realize the Truth.
    It is another matter if so many spiritual teacher and so called Gurus using ‘Satsang’ or ‘Gathering of seekers’ for satisfies their personal egos. To be with Truth needs a quality to be observe and to be witness, I have seen this teacher attracts only persons who are so much identify with mind and they feel at ease with these so called teacher. There are many swami rajneesh, who use Osho or any enlighten for their crack purpose, what is the point for ‘Truth’ to take any support from their beloved masters or any one…but that what majority of human wants… They have no interest in meditation but how to go against where meditation is happening regularly.
    I remember one friend who is teacher, has arrange a group for his teaching called ‘Diamond Body’, I was participate and he was talking to me that ‘at least in this life I have to be enlighten’, this man was talking about diamond body which is a body of enlighten. He had collected all the information about how this diamond body should be. People’s mind likes this kind of information so this kind of teacher are able to gather student or seeker and then they call it Satsang, Gathering or Etc…
    There are Shamans, who gathers for some rituals having some kind of hallucination stuff and call that they are seeking for truth.
    Yes, if they are concern about people’s psych, then they must call ‘therapeutic group’ there is nothing wrong for a broken family to participate such kind of group.
    I have seen this kind of Satsang and Gathering of seekers and I found almost all are suffering from some kind of psychic problem, instead of calling therapeutic group they call Satsang, that’s all…

  39. Lokesh says:

    Aman, you say. It is another matter if so many spiritual teacher and so called Gurus using ‘Satsang’ or ‘Gathering of seekers’ for satisfies their personal egos.

    I don’t believe it is that simple. Often as not so-called gurus are highly delusional and actually believe themselves to be enlightened. It is not so much an ego trip, rather a mind trip.
    Sooner or later these people will find themselves in trouble, because to act enlightened when unenlightened places great strain on the mind, eventually causing a breakdown of sorts.
    In the meantime the unenlightened satsang givers serve a purpose for all the beginners who need to live out such a relationship. I don’t think it will cause a great deal of harm. Afterall, it might be the case that all spiritual ideas have been put in place to take the edge of the facts that life may be ruled by chaos, god is a dream and we are dream creatures no more significant than a passing cloud in the sky of illusion.

  40. Amano says:

    People who gives satsang and people who goes to satsang. have one thingh in common…….. they never really understand osho and his vision and they are with osho half hearted…. i do not understand why there were not so many of them when osho was in body……..

    Dolano ,arun , others are playing games with osho,s words and use the word meditation. i am sure half of them never heard word meditation before they came to osho . their journey started with osho and then it was not enough for them just be disple. i feel sorry for both kinds of people … osho is available everywhere.
    last comment ………..i have seen those faces of satsang goer , there is some confussion and osho always offers clearity . Deep down everyone knows that monkey business of satsangs and fake gurus , but does not dare to talk about it

  41. Amano says:

    Satsang gurus have nothing new to offer …….they read osho,s books and misguide others who cames to them. it is really monkey business with full of mind games . there is no heart , no soul, but just ego………..it is like you scratch my ass and i scratch yours
    go to these satsangs and find out yourself what i just said
    it is better to watch to watch bolly

  42. Amano says:

    it is better to watch bollywood or hollywood movies than to go to satsang. atleast sometimes you have good music and meaning ful story in movies.

    those satsangs are full of sick people and sad and depress strories and above all not real………..they are trying to find a black cat in a dark room which is not even there

  43. Lokesh says:

    Amano, you say, Satsang gurus have nothing new to offer …….they read osho,s books

    It seems that it is not only Satsang who are delusional.
    What is remarkable about Osho is that he spoke books…hundreds of them. What is also remarkable is that not all of his books were packed with cosmic wisdom. Therefore you cannot say that Satsang gurus study his books in order to become gurus, unless they want to be more boring than they already are. There are spiritual books that are packed with cosmic wisdom. Don’t you think these false gurus could also study them.
    This fixation of yours on Osho is unhealthy.
    You say….i do not understand why there were not so many of them when osho was in body
    The answer to that is simple. They could not exist when he was in the body and neither could people like yourself, who come away with meaningless statements like, ‘they never really understand osho and his vision’, when it is highly likely that you yourself are unable to present a coherant explanation of what Osho’s vision was (is).
    If you think I am mistaken why don’t you explain to me and other bloggers on this page exactly what Osho’s vision encompasses and why it is that the new satsang gurus are having so much trouble understanding it.
    Thank you.

  44. Amano says:

    lokesh, if you need to know about osho and his vision, read two books , those are spoken words of osho

    Golden Future and The rebellious spirit

    In these two books osho explain a lot about him vision and future of communes

    if you like read one more book from ma prem maneesha
    Bhagwan future of budhas

  45. Chinmaya says:

    In India, There is not a single Guru, who is not borrowing and reading and copying and vomiting on public, after listening Osho in the name of Satsang. If we are very careful, we can easily find, what the percentage of mixing from their traditional stories, mixed with psychological power out of discourses of Osho. Since, they are not original, their shops run for a limited period and they are trapped with one kind of scandal or the other because they are not enloightened either. Only proxy. Whatever they speak, they will name it Satsang, and now their nomenclature is Dhyan (Meditation) because people prefer to listen this word Meditation.

  46. AShikBear says:

    Hope that you all have a nice day. Why can we not all just shine like stars and be light bearing diamonds ?

  47. Lokesh says:

    Why can we not all just shine like stars and be light bearing diamonds ?

    We are. It is just that you don’t see it.

    Have a nice day? Are you from California?

  48. Satya Deva says:

    Well then, “Shine on, you crazy Diamond!”

  49. frank says:

    the satsang explosion is not unlike the advent of punk rock.
    there was a sex pistols gig in 1976

  50. frank says:

    joy division,the smiths,the fall,the buzzcocks and others were there.
    they thought.
    “fuck me,those guys are on stage doing fuck all,they cant even play their instruments,and they`re getting paid for it,i could do that”
    and they did.

  51. frank says:

    osho let the cat out of the bag.
    after him,it`s rock `n` roll enlightentertainment,all the way….
    tribute bands an` all….

    get used to it…….

  52. frank says:

    lokesh,
    sorry to hear about your dark night of the soul…
    women eh? what do they know about enlightenment?
    i agree with shantam,lets go back to a retro religious paradise and shove `em all back in the kitchen where they belong……..

  53. Lokesh says:

    Listen. I have to sneak this message out because my wife discovered my plan to become a phony satsang giver in order to meet mega babes and steal dumb seekers money. I must confess…Oh oh. here she comes. She has a zen stick in her hands. I have to sign out quick…..

  54. frank says:

    sounds heavy,man.
    you want a bit of kylie,but you`re getting it in the neck from kali…
    you need a to use some upaya,some skillful means here……
    can`t you offer her a job as chief wife in your newly formed harem of babes?
    it might help her get over her identification with her jealousy trips…….
    freedom is the highest value,remember..
    like i said,its hopeless,women will never get the hang of this enlightenment thing.
    it`s like the offside rule…
    it just seems to elude them….

  55. shantam prem says:

    Satya deva knows quite well that there is not big money neither big boobs babes left as business perk in the business of spirituality.
    Other than Russians not many people in the industrial world buy this product as Premium, and may be in few years they will get tired too.
    Not because something is wrong with the inner search but because sellers are not that impressive as the world requires.
    If you still have to wear Magician robe or Lungi and Shwal, it simply means you are selling casette recorders. Who buys them?

    And than you add cut thorat competition for limited customer base, who are like shopolics buying same style of shoes from different style. Many EX. Sannyasins are very much having this syptom of Enlightenolics.

    Yet 3-4 Indian gurus have achieved tremendous success, as i know other than one all treat woman as Sister( Behanji), and the one in south India presides the empire with His wife; not as cute as Osho^s Vivek!

  56. shantam prem says:

    same style of shoes from different SHOPS, this is called Satsang.

  57. Anand says:

    Lokesh seems to be under the thumb of his German wife…..

  58. Lokesh says:

    It is true Anand plus Frank just reminded me that freedom is the highest value and I am in chains. Oh, how I wish Osho was here to help me, but alas he has moved beyond the beyond and I have to work this one out on my own. It hurts so bad when I think of all the mega babes who would have catered to my every fantasy…. had I made it into satsang supremacy.
    Now i have to own up to who I really am….a nobody. I’m not a hero, I am a zero. I feel so insignificant that I am merging with existance, like a drop merging with the ocean. Hey hold on a minute…

  59. Satya Deva says:

    shantam prem:

    Satya deva knows quite well that there is not big money neither big boobs babes left as business perk in the business of spirituality.

    SD:
    Do I? Never really thought about it actually, SP…

    Still, if you say so, I guess I must be aware of this crucial fact…

    So, thanks….

  60. Lokesh says:

    Satya deva knows quite well that there is not big money neither big boobs babes left as business perk in the business of spirituality.

    Why did you not inform me about this before? It would have saved me a lot of trouble. Call yourselves spiritual seekers and you can’t even help a man out when he was obviously on the point of making a big mistake, in this case setting myself up to be a satsang giver in order to get my hands on some big boobs and big cash. I feel like such a fool. Whatever happened to the spirit of the good Samaratin? Or has this happened because many of you are Indians who belive in a blue-skinned god? I am devastated!

  61. frank says:

    lokesh,
    dont be fooled by that wily old fox shantam.
    he`s just trying to put you off the scent…
    he wants those big boobed babes all for himself when he opens up shop.

    there are still plenty of 2 for the price of 1 deals to be had in lithuania,kazakhastan and taiwan,etc
    and for these places,enlightenment is not even compulsory.a black robe,a quick browse through “introducing….tantra”(£4.99) and a few tabs of viagra will get you more mahamudra than you know what to do with……….

  62. Lokesh says:

    Frank, you have come as a beam of light during my current dark night of the soul. Suddenly it has all come clear to me. Now I know why Shantam Prem uses all those flowery metaphors. It is not for us, it’s for the mega babes who visit this blog.
    Alright, now I post my first ad in new age magazine and soon the chicks will be locked in Scottish mahamudra with you know who hoo hoo. I can feel my kundalini rising just at the thought of it.
    Now early evening on sunny Ibiza and I am heading off to the local yoga centre by the beach. A great place to pick up bikinied bombshells and lure them back to my tantrick temple so that I can open their chackraz..
    This has made my day. My heart is filled with joy and boundlass gratitude. Jai bhagwan, as they used to shout in the good old days.

  63. prem bubbie says:

    So Anand, You say ” Lokesh seems to be under the thumb of his German wife…” sounds like you’re saying he’s pussy whipped!! What happened to your manners? You didn’t like me saying that, so? You’re so full of shit Anand , as your prefix states… “Anus” Anand !!!! Back to more important things… Amano says, The world needs to turn to
    Osho to be saved… Save yourself asshole!!! Another imbecile trying to save the world with his madness!!! How about, Turning inward instead… No need to attach to someone else for salvation… no such thing as salvation anyway…. Just too afraid to look inside!!! Amano and Chinmaya, are both of you rejects from Christian cults? You would fit right in, here in the States with the evangelical christians, reciting (Osho) scripture like parrot brain robots. You haven’t said anything about the end of the world. what say you?

  64. prem bubbie says:

    This guy rajneesh just uses this site to promote freely, his antics and games. Notice how he disappears for months until he’s hatched some other scheme and looks for free advertisement. What a cheap bastard!! All of that money he has and still a stingy little shit. By his actions you know he’s a fraud. What say you rajneesh dawg?

  65. Lokesh says:

    Ehm… how about…woof, woof?

  66. Anand says:

    No I remember Lokesh’s German wife from Pune 1 and she was actually quite nice and I was only kidding…
    Happy though to get Bubbies foul mouth feedback…they must have given him some days off from the Oregon lunatic asylum, where he stays since the FBI put him on hold, since he did not provide any more valuable information about sannyasins in general.
    He provides best entertainment, he is soooo shocking…..
    uh uh uh, Bubbie we are so upset about your personal shit. Did you ever try Dynamic Meditation?

  67. prem bubbie says:

    A. Anand You’re still doing it and nothing’s happening!!! You’re just another poseur, dude!!! You don’t go with the flow, you just latch on to any group, you yes everyone to death just to be accepted and might just want to smear that brown stuff on your nose all over the rest of your body and you might even pass as an Indian!! Pretty pathetic ex-sannyasin who still dreams of the good old Pune days….. next . oh yeah anand, your jokes are as dry as your balls!!!

  68. Lokesh says:

    Gosh…Love Bubble (Prem Bubbie) you are so moucho.

  69. Lokesh says:

    I mean macho. Please share some more of your vision.

  70. shantam prem says:

    Like an old lion in the unfamiliar jungle, it is not easy to hunt for the babes. Still like an Lion, how dignified it is to wait for the right moment and not to bother about frozen meat.

    So why to use the ultimate catch called Godliness or Godlessness for such skin and metal things.

  71. Anand says:

    Bubbie: miaow…..
    Lokesh: Bubbie and vision? brain farts!
    SP: ???

  72. Raghu says:

    Oh…some one talk about Dhalano…My God…how she is so big idiot…I know one person…She usted to go in her satsang…and yea later on she was in hell….she became mantlly retarted….such people are criminals…

  73. Lokesh says:

    Mantilly retarted…sounds like some kind of strawberry cake.

    Anand, leave Bubble alone…he might be going through a metamorphisis and come out at the end as a Mantilly retarted pie. it is not his fault that he has Tourette’s disease.

  74. Anand says:

    back to satsang: in my opinion satsang is for idiots. Close your eyes and you have satsang.

  75. Amano says:

    Raghu, you are right. Dolano is mentaly retarted only . not a crimanal.
    it is not yet crime to be mentaly retarted.
    Dolano used to get 100 rs voucher in early 90,s to feed the swans in lao tzu house. she used to keep more than half for her and rest spent on swan by buying them salad from mariam. sometimes keep the whole 100 rs and steal the salad and lettuce……..my heart goes out there for swans . one of them died in 2002.

  76. Oh,yes !
    We the peoples of this earth have made through His/Her grace, contact High! Now we need only to follow simple rules that is, the *male-nature forms a single file,and the *femenyn-nature dances Herself to His(Male-nature advantage’s!) enlightenment!
    This analogy that we have, as *google the “motor force engine of *in-ter-net”,or (Sw.Anand Viresh!) veering this meditation to *breath therapy, specialy for the the ones that cannot single file due to lack of breath
    is not a *phantasya dance, that our beloved Osho have created ,but an enquiry when all else have been a help to present situation ;i.e, the human mind!
    Pole ,table,bathrom pantasya only leading to the sacred dances or the sky Ballet!
    This has been our master’s dream that He left Us when ,He left the body!”*I leave you my Dream”!
    Until then Osho is our love,
    the fairysaint our guiding Star!
    Amritlind and Crew*

  77. Amano says:

    100 rs voucher for dolano was given by mukta or fanince commetti…….just to take care of swan and not her persnal lunch or dinners……….i am witness to that. i can call her crimnal for that……….swans are innocent ,

  78. shantam prem says:

    Haar Shakh Pe Ullu betha Hain, Uss Gulshan ki Halat Kaya Kahiye…

    On every branch is sitting an Owl, what one can say about that Garden.

    This poetical verse was used quite often in India to describe her political and bureaucratic leadership. Most of the time Osho has pointed towards this India, and now the Tao is turning full circle. In general, more than average Public figures in the school of Osho are showing their Oily and owlly side.
    As i have always maintained, blame goes to the top hierarchy too. Make the pond dry, people will fetch water from gutters.
    When the centre is weak and corrupt; every thug in the village becomes war lord.
    Afghanistan and my beloved 17, Koregaon Park; God will bless you, sooner or later.

    WOH SUBAH KABHI TO AAYEGI…

  79. Satya Deva says:

    Why drag Afghanistan into it, SP?!

    I’ve thought for quite a while that a major problem in sannyas is its obviously ‘communal’ aspect, with many people forgetting the point: “The Flight of the Alone to the Alone” (evocative title of an early Osho book).

    IE it’s a question of individual growth, individual awareness…

    Nothing wrong with coming together in groups, but I just feel that it’s easy to lose sight of ‘the wood for the trees’ (or is it the other way round?!), and emphasise the relative ‘cosiness’ of a large group, with its warmth and various consolations.

    Meanwhile, life, as it tends to, goes on, ‘happening’ (as John Lennon memorably put it), “while we’re making other plans”…

    Here’s a question for you, SP:
    How would your life turn out, do you think, if NOTHING changed at all at 17, Koregaon Park, ever?

  80. shantam prem says:

    How would your life turn out, do you think, if NOTHING changed at all at 17, Koregaon Park, ever?

    This is an interesting question to someone who is bashing His Alma Mater continuously. Thanks Satya Deva.
    Let me try to answer it honesty and therefore spontaneously.

    The flight of Alone towards Alone or journey into the uncharted sea..is not a poetry for me anymore since i went to Pune in 1987 after leaving in the middle of first success in the criminal bail case.
    How much i walked or back tracked only God knows, but my heart bleeds many times for my parents, who have seen their only son going on the unconventional path.

    So personally 17, Koregaon Park has not any relevance for me or any other place therefore i stand for the restoration of the lost glory of Pune because here one can experiment with life as per Osho´s teachings.

    And i believe and there must be many others too, who feel immense gratitude towards this place and its founder.

    Even as a general comparison, i don´t see any other place capable of offering so diversified programmes as Osho´s energy field.

    And i hope you understand the difference in the fight when it is for personal gains and when it is for the cause you think has the potential for higher calling.

    And if 17, Koregaon Park change, i think i will ask for a job in the new inner circle. Every one has to do some kind of job. Job with choice or job for survival.
    and i think in the spiritual organisation, kind of Osho´s it is very important that people do he work as a fun, as a sharing and not as a mean of survival.

  81. Satya Deva says:

    I get what you’re saying here, SP – but I don’t think you’ve actually answered the question (unless I’ve missed something).

  82. Satya Deva says:

    Anand:

    back to satsang: in my opinion satsang is for idiots. Close your eyes and you have satsang.

    SD:
    That depends, surely, on who is the ‘teacher’ and the quality or ‘readiness’ of the person concerned, doesn’t it?

    Your statement might apply to you, Anand (and only you know!), but to how many others – who knows?

    Maybe it only applies to you, not the rest of the human race…? Who knows…?

  83. Satya Deva says:

    A thought re the apparent division of opinion about the Poona Ashram:

    The two ‘camps’ seem to be Indians who want the ‘restoration of past glories’ and the Westerners who don’t care that much about that and/or who accept the current staus quo.

    But why should Indians feel they have some sort of ‘special claim’ on the place? OK, it’s in India and Osho was an Indian.

    But let’s face it, Indians were always in a minority in both Poonas 1 and 2, and not only there, but in the world as a whole Indian sannyasins are heavily outnumbered, of course, by those of other nations.

    So, democratically speaking (and yes, I do realise that ‘democracy’ has no claim on ‘spiritual truth’!) it might appear that things are fine as they are and should remain this way.

    After all, if Osho was a ‘world teacher’….

  84. Amano says:

    Sp. WOH SUBUH KABHI TO AAYEGI. JAB ANBAAR JOMIKE NACHEGA , JAB DHARTI NAGME GAYEGI. WOH SUBUH KABHI TO AAYEGI

    LOVE AND GRATITUDE TO BUDHAFIELD IN PUNE

  85. Chinmaya says:

    What is happening at this thread.

    Shantam started with Satsang’s genesis and namesis in the West and what enlightened folk is writing here, there seems hardly any synchronicity.

    Happy landing.

  86. Lokesh says:

    Chinmaya, you ask, What is happening at this thread?

    Nothing special I in my opinion. You have the stuck records going on about the shram, the hooligans like Love Bubble delivering their usual abuse and a few oddballs like myself, who you never quite know what they will come up with.

    Each one of us has a different reason for writing on this blog. In my own case I do a bit of blah blah before I go to work, it is in a way fun.
    Personally I think the threads could be of a more interesting nature. byt really the blog is like life in the sense it is what you make of it.
    As for synchronicity, sometimes it happens others not, I don’t find it that important. Where I live there is much social synchronicity ie you think of someone and they show up at the door five minutes later, it is so commonplace nobody mentions it, because synchronicity is nothing special on that level. If we all fell into synchronicity on the blog it would be utterly boring. It is enough that we deliver our comments, because that can be quite stimulating at times. One only has to make a little effort to get everyone else going.

  87. shantam prem says:

    Satya Deva,
    your comments are beautiful. they give fodder to the fire.
    It is a misconception that western sannyasins don´t care about the happenings in Pune, because of their collective development.
    They may not speak in an emotionally charged language, but their withdrawl from Pune is a sign of protest too and than so much connection and learning from Osho, also means one can sing like a solitary bird too. How many times He has mentioned something like, that Intelligent seeker can turn the stones on the path into the stairs.
    Still i will say it is the good yet cunning intention on the part of the western mind, the mind which produces people like Blair and Bush, the do gooders who are carrying the whitemen´s burden on their shoulders and in the process destroy the innocence of life.

    When i say, Restoration of 17, Koregaon Park in its past glory, it implies simply that the programmes chaired by Osho will not get distorted, they will remain as they were.
    For example.. celebration during July or His birthday…. let they be. Yet this much intelligence and broad mindedness must be there, not to push or encourage people to participate in them.
    If someone wants to go to movie rather than white robe, it is just fine.
    And i was asking before too..when was the last time you have visited Pune from 1975 till now. Just to see, how much upto dated you are with the changing demography of Koregaon Park.

  88. shantam prem says:

    Well said, Lokesh

  89. shantam prem says:

    Just like in the market place, many of us are used to buy the produce, the labour of others. Potatos or apples, someone else tilt the land and we pay with cash to get this nourishment products.
    Same has happened with Osho, specially those who were also in the chit chat terms with the farmer when the market was not so full.
    Than as it happens in life, after farmers death children started fighting. Land holding got divided. Few high school pass gentlemen stoped the practise of growing in the bio dynamic way like father.To get a maximum yield, they started using all kind of pesticides and also selling in the market place. They packed the crop for super markets.

    Those who need apples and potatos goes to super market,those who need chit chat also have found few other farmers.
    After all, world never stops, everything is replaceable.
    Still.. my eyes get moisture, when i think about that old farmer named Osho by his loving customers..and God willing, this daily labourer in Osho´s field will create a cooperative society to buy the land from his sons to continue the cuttivation of juicy fruits.

    After all, there are few bonds which bind by themselves.

    KUCH AAISE BANDHAN HOTE HAIN JO BIN BAANDHE BANDH JATE HAIN…

  90. Attention Please !
    Osho is alive and kicking as he has taken birth in all Humanity!
    This time He,Osho in the (*bodhy tree!) of a *femenyn child,and She lives in Australia!
    She Will be known ,(perhaps!) as the *Fairysaint that came to show Us the way out of the *jungle-mind!
    Breath re-discovery(!) will be the most important issue for the modern humanity,or the *new man/humanity,to play with!
    This will be a play just as the *fairydance or the sacred dances!Our earthly dances by no means are beneath Her dignity as they serve to point to the enquiry and its roots!
    *Where From?(Where darling do you think my mind is runing in this moment?)
    *Who is Inn?
    (Finaly!)*Who am I?
    Osho is our love,
    *Fairysaint (is our bodichitta of compassion guiding!)
    Untill then,
    amritlind and crew!

  91. Satya Deva says:

    SP, you have a vivid and unique way of writing, of painting interesting word-pictures (not always easy to understand though!). But you still haven’t answered my question (even though you said it was a good one!):

    How would your life turn out, do you think, if NOTHING changed at all at 17, Koregaon Park, ever?

  92. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem:
    Still i will say it is the good yet cunning intention on the part of the western mind, the mind which produces people like Blair and Bush, the do gooders who are carrying the whitemen´s burden on their shoulders and in the process destroy the innocence of life.

    SD:
    Whereas the minds of the politicians of the East are crystal clear, innocent and free as a 2 year-old, while their lovely voices sing alone, like a bird?

    Is that what you mean, SP?!!

    You know, shining examples of purity, like Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, those guys from Iran and North Korea…Not to mention the Taliban, Al Qaeda…Not forgetting, of course, those wonderful, utterly incorruptible Indians…

    And so our national conditionings raise their not-so-lovely heads, eh?! Let’s take a bit of distance from that garbage inside us, otherwise we’re well and truly lost.

  93. shantam prem says:

    Satya Deva, when i mention the example of Blair and Bush, it was to remember their counterparts in the realm of 17, Koregaon Park, Pune.
    The two white men, Anglo Sexon, not corrupt but so head strong to think that they know what Osho wanted because everybody else was listening with the plugs in the ear.
    And i don´t think i have ever written a sentence in praise of eastern politicians though these folks are learning to appreciate the finer values of democracy, not because they want to learn but there is a pressure from the citizens to change.
    And in the countries where citizens voice has no power, these people stay in their cozy zones.

    and as you write, “How would your life turn out, do you think, if NOTHING changed at all at 17, Koregaon Park, ever?”

    Nothing change at all, is not possible, you know it too.
    Even North Korea will change once this “son of a great leader” goes up stair by their public transport.

    But let us presume Nothing changes at all at 17, Koregaon Park.
    how my life will turn out?

    Most probably, i will be able to create something on a very small scale level, what i feel and think i have learnt at Osho´s feet.
    Few people become reluctant entrepreneurs.

  94. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem:
    Most probably, i will be able to create something on a very small scale level, what i feel and think i have learnt at Osho´s feet.
    Few people become reluctant entrepreneurs.

    SD:
    Some sort of ‘Osho Centre’?

    But why then “reluctant”?

  95. shantam prem says:

    No dear, No Osho centre.
    They have lost relevance. How the retailer can survive when their are defects in the manufacturing plant.
    Think about Toyata or BP
    ( I don´t know how to drive a car, but have interest in the psychology behind the business)
    These people in business still try to mend their mistakes, and look at the decline in the quality of spiritual service providers.
    Not a single one, accepts the limitations in their product, such is the pig headed ness in the people with egoless state.

    God willing… it should be a break through not the repetition. Otherwise why to bother. Any way, there are many brothels for higher kicks.
    And whether we accept it or not, every break through is based on some foundation created by some predecessor.

  96. shantam prem says:

    http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/06/29/reza.pakistan.rape.victim.cnn?iref=allsearch

    This is a refreshing video of raw courage from every day life. The last lines spoken by this 13 years old girl, made me salute her on the Tv screen.

    It seems flowers grow every where; may be in the gardens too.

  97. Satya Deva says:

    Some sort of business then, SP? But still, why “reluctant”?

    And what has what you’ve learned from Osho got to do with it?

    Just curious….

  98. shantam prem says:

    I think this personal discussion we can have over a cup of coffee some where in Life?
    To make the long story short, let us say, Osho is the only public figure in my favourate subject that my ego and pride simply dropped by. Not because He had beard or his eyes have hypnotic spell or had many western women as disciples but the way He spoke about the human life and the way He dared to create something totally unique in His area of action.

    Without the electrifying ashram of His, the world has lost some spark though i can hear the sounds of cars horns after the football victory of Germany. One needs to get affiliated with something. i started falling asleep while watching the match, Osho seems to be the right topic for me for more than two decades to keep the senses awake.

    It can be a question of personal liking and why not to think like many that one day this Shantam can carry forward the legacy. Thanks to my seniors who have pull down the mark index to such a low level.
    Even it is a sweet dream, feels perfectly well with my intentions. And after Obama´s presidency, it seems Nothing is impossible, just one needs Adidas shoes
    (and the stamina to walk with patience for eternity)

  99. Satya Deva says:

    ‘Classified information’ then, SP…

    Not to be revealed for 40 years, according to Law…?!

  100. shantam prem says:

    What is classified information?
    Everything is there on the Google search.

    And Satya deva, you being the expert on Indian Gurus, can you tell, why most of them did not have children?
    Is it not unnatural not to pass on such purified genes?

    I think it is not that difficult to hug thousands of people and remain centred or walk on th epodium with choclate faced smile and raise the right hand in blessing posture, but it may be a hell of a work for these gurus too, to change the pampers and when the child cries or falls sick or when the daughter gets pregnent before marriage and so on.

  101. Satya Deva says:

    Classified information is stuff a government decrees is not to be made public for a certain period of time, usually at least 40 years, I think.

    SP, I’m no more an “expert on Indian gurus” than you, or I expect, anyone else who comes here. So don’t hang that on me, please!

    (You might, though, be indulging in ‘harmless banter’, of course, in which case, “hah hah, yes, that’s me all right!”).

    As for the challenges, trials and tribulations of family life, well, I don’t know about Indian gurus, but I had more than enough while growing up (at least, it was supposed to “up”, I think) to last me a lifetime, so I’m not about to join you in any such criticism, I’m afraid.

    Although it is refreshing to come across a ‘guru’ who’s actually lived an ordinary life – and has still ‘made it’, while ‘paying the rent’ through an ordinary job. Barry Long was a great example. Can’t think of any others at present.

  102. Lokesh says:

    Guru Nanak had children and I suspect many other spiritual giants did also. I don’t believe there is any connection between a person being a parent and their state of consciousness. I’d even go so far as to say that parenting children can make it easier to help one to become aware of the process of how we enter the world innocent and become corrupted.
    My five year old grandson appears to me as an angel, something which he is at present, but like all of us he will sooner or later fall from grace and then the illusion that we call ‘I’ begins. By understanding and watching him I can see how my own personality was formed and the fragile nature of what it is formed from.
    On the other hand, having children provides a convenient answer as to why you exist in the first place. Answer: to bring up the children. If you have no children you will have to dig a little deeper. Then again, bringing up children in a loving way involves, sacrifice, patience and a less self centred attitude, all of which are not the worst of qualities that a human being can develop.
    Ultimately none of this matters because in reality nothing ever happens,
    Many enlightened people live ‘ordinary’ lives. Osho was not in the least bit ordinary, although he claimed to be, which was probably his way of making a joke. I say this because most people who are on the quest for enlightenment are utterly lost. Enlightenment is the very last thing ‘you’ want to happen because it will be the end of you. It is afterall the ultimate death that we are talking about not some exalted bliss state that a polished ego is experienceing.

  103. shantam prem says:

    Ultimate death and the bliss of the polished Ego; i think seekers journey moves towards these two distinctively opposite cliffs.
    And nobody has put the sign board over these two.
    As i can say for Osho; He was (is) the most ambitious tour operator for such journey. Thomas Cook and L´tur of His trade.
    Even when we are sitting in a train full with people still we are alone, does it mean it plays no role whether train is full or empty.
    Ultimate Death can also have another dimension when it happens for many many people. Single person has always reached; and Osho was saying, world need many many people on this point, As i understand therefore His insistence that religion is a science for inner, it is not a belief, superstition and even God is a hypothesis.

    This is one of the point my heart bows down before Osho that a man who came back after a ultimate death to teach not just one or two but many many ordinary people like many of us and as a best tour operator; He tried His best to make arduous journey bit more comfortable, joyful and celebrating.

  104. shantam prem says:

    As the world is- 24 hours market place; the tour operators after securing the diploma from “Bliss of the Polished Ego Institute” (bpei) has also the right to make their work flourish like the people who run bus kiosks near Dadar railway station in Mumbai or in any other big city.

    And like in every trade, Rip Off is always a possibility.
    For example when “bpei” diploma holders start behaving as if they are the graduates from ” Ultimate Death Academy” (UDA).

    Only this i find ugly and makes my blood boil.
    But as the world is; a 24 hours market place, it all belongs to the game.

  105. Satya Deva says:

    Great thing about a ‘guru’ (I somehow dislike this word now) who’s lived an ordinary life, outwardly much like many of his ‘disciples’, is that (hopefully) he can teach from that direct experience, in a way that’s relevant to their lives and concerns.

    That’s why it’s refreshing to come across a genuine western teacher, who has the western conditioning in his very dna! ‘Talking the same language’, as it were, and as it is…

    Osho, of course, was an exception among eastern teachers, he well understood westerners, giving us therapies (which promised much, while not necessarily always delivering – but that’s another story), as well as energy, words, meditation and work to help us out of the mire.

    Yet, he remained essentially of the east and that lack of personal experience of the western way might, arguably, have led to the downfall of his bold foray into the west, the Ranch. With all the negative fall-out that has brought his ‘movement’….

  106. Satya Deva says:

    Lokesh:
    Ultimately none of this matters because in reality nothing ever happens,

    SD:
    I have a problem with such statements, Lokesh, because they’re not demonstrated in my living experience.

    What on earth does this mean, please?!

  107. Satya Deva says:

    Lokesh:
    My five year old grandson appears to me as an angel, something which he is at present, but like all of us he will sooner or later fall from grace and then the illusion that we call ‘I’ begins. By understanding and watching him I can see how my own personality was formed and the fragile nature of what it is formed from.

    SD:
    I can well imagine, Lokesh…Reminds me of a great song by Ron Sexsmith, ‘Speaking with the Angel’ (on youtube.com, live version at Woodstock, Ontario is a good one) inspired by his experience of his very young child.

  108. Satya Deva says:

    Another good, live version of this song is from Queensland, March 2008 (youtube.com).

  109. shantam prem says:

    Yet, he remained essentially of the east and that lack of personal experience of the western way might, arguably, have led to the downfall of his bold foray into the west, the Ranch. With all the negative fall-out that has brought his ‘movement’….

    SD, Above statement is quite to the mark.
    During the Ranch phase, it was the wrong reading to undermine the structure and power of the US state and the collective support base.
    One understand that too because desperate disciples were not giving the right feed back.

    And the Master who is essentially teaching the eastern mystica according to His time, it would have been very appropriate that few Indian disciples should have remained part of the think tank for the continuity of the flow.
    But it is not the case. Again world renowned arrogance of the self righteous west has pesticided the delicacy of the eastern flower.

    Not of India but it is a lose for the west too, a motivating finger pointing towards moon has been turned into a finger in the automatic watch.

    This is called scientific mind interfering into the unknown Terran.

  110. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem:
    SD, Above statement is quite to the mark.
    During the Ranch phase, it was the wrong reading to undermine the structure and power of the US state and the collective support base.
    One understand that too because desperate disciples were not giving the right feed back.

    SD:
    Yes, the ‘pr’ (eg arrogant, superior attutude to local population) was an utter disaster, total self-sabotage. They could have got away with that in India at that time, but in the US they were doomed.

  111. Satya Deva says:

    Part of that attitude stemmed, I think, from Sheela transplanting what she could get away with in India to a totally different socio-cultural environment, the US.

    So, let’s not get too carried away with trumpeting the claims of Indians to run things…

    (Yes, I know she’s not typical…
    On the other hand, as I’ve said before, I wouldn’t trust rajneesh to the minutest degree. God help us if he were to get anywhere running things in Poona!).

    Btw, did Osho appoint any Indians as members of the ‘Inner Circle’? (And if not, why not?).

  112. Lokesh says:

    Satya Deva, although I am not in the least nostalgic for Poona One your question reminds me of a a Sufi song we used to sing back then. ‘Nothing ever happens, what is just is.’ I can remember feeling like a fool sometimes when we sang those songs, because they sounded like nursery rhymes, and how as the sessions wore on the foolish sensations would leave me and be replaced by bliss.
    The other day I watched a Gouenka video that, I believe, SP posted the link to. I really enjoyed what the man had to say about Buddha and how he was the one who said it all came down to vibration, that existence is a play of light and sound, something I first discovered for myself back in the sixties when I swallowed 1000 micrograms of LSD. The thing is that the experiencing of such realities is witnessed by something and when you get right down to it that witnessing agent is an awareness. I believe that awareness is reality. What is reality? That which is real and not transient, that which is permanent and unchanging. A state where nothing ever happens, what is just is. Without you there is no world. The world needs you to happen.

  113. Satya Deva says:

    That’s a lot clearer, thanks, Lokesh. And very well put as well!

    Although I have no real personal experience of this, I can intuitively get that the source (or should that be Source?!) has to be ‘Nothing’ and so I guess it just has to be true that NOTHING ever happens (as how can ‘nothing’ “happen”, it just is (or isn’t) (or both is and isn’t!!)?

    But without such an explanation it is merely confusing and not especially helpful.

    Btw, aren’t quantum physicists reaching a similar conclusion?

  114. Satya Deva says:

    SD (from second-last post):
    On the other hand, as I’ve said before, I wouldn’t trust rajneesh to the minutest degree. God help us if he were to get anywhere running things in Poona!).

    Should read:
    …if he were to get anywhere near running things…

  115. Yakaru says:

    Nice article, Shantam. Thanks!

  116. shantam prem says:

    Btw, did Osho appoint any Indians as members of the ‘Inner Circle’? (And if not, why not?).
    SD,
    It seems like after Poona one and Ranch, you were not following Osho to His final phase, commonly called Poona 2.

    The above question i have answered many times and it is a joy to repeat our common history again and again. Lest we forget.
    If you could find the video of His last journey, ” I leave you my Dream”, in its uncensored form, it can show much light also about the conception and working of inner circle. Also this spontaneously made video is quite a documentary of Osho´s journey to burning ghat.
    Time and again few people have posted this video on the net, but somehow after a while the video gets deleted.

    In the 20 members 5 were Indians. Three were kicked out unceremoniously and remaining two are still in Pune. They have no executive power other than showering flowers on the way of crown prince, i mean Hon´ble Chairman.

    The poster Ma of Osho´s work in India, MA Yoga Neelam has developed Osho Nisarga in Dharamshala with her partner Tathagat, who is also an ex inner circle member.
    During the good days when community feeling was still strong, this man was asked to beg for forgiveness of the gathering because he used the lost necklace of someone for his personal gratification.

    The punishment was disproportionate to the crime but nobody took much notice as the summary trial was done in a transparent way. The real reason is that in one forest, two lions cannot stay, specially when the Jockey is no more there.
    The other Indian, the only intellectual and academician, Swami Satya Vedant(Dr. Vasant Joshi) because of his mellow nature tried his best to fit with the others but he also got the red slip and now he is the regular contributor of Osho World Magazine.

    It is not just Indians who were rooted out, most of the western elites and class one therapists were also given a nod of disapproval.
    For example, Leela who developed Mystic Rose leads the groups not any more in Poona but in Dharamshala.

    To me this question surprises the most, why many of these people have gone into dignified silence of indifference.
    Are they too awe stuck with the towering personalities of Jayesh and Amrito or they are afraid from some kind of retribution.
    What so ever……
    Elephant has two set of teeth, one for showing another for chewing.
    (Hathi ke Dant Khane ke aur dikhane ke aur)

    PS- I don´t want to give this impression that the exiled members of inner circle are better or more meditative. Such kind of judgements i will not make. But yes..they would not have turned the game up side down.

  117. Satya Deva says:

    Ok, SP, thanks, I didn’t know this story.

  118. Amano says:

    Sp. Inner circus story was good, but there is much more into that.
    i will try to contribute the more of inner circus

    dheeraj, avirbhava, yogi, hasya,maneesha,karuna,kaveesha, are some more names who left pune because of Mr chairman……..jayesh.

    jayesh, harressed them so they reached point that they left.

    some of them started osho center in osho sedona in arizona,usa

    garimo story is very intersting, too………..she was known as ma arup in ranch time . i do not know the secret behind name change. I heard that she was supporter of sheela. i do not know what kind of deal jayesh had with her , so she can return………she was banned for a while in 1988

    mukesh and sadhana , devendra ,zareen are not orginally selected by osho to run to commune. they were extra players waiting for orginally players to leave the ground…….

    past is full of deceptions and cruelity from inner circle…….

    swami dheeraj died in italy i upset with jayesh. he was running tibetan pulsing in pune in 1989 to 1999 and making so much money for jayesh ………very sad what happened to him and his team . most of them now in koln…….it will nice if some people of dheeraj team come forward and tell the true version of story. it will help us understand what exactly went wrong.
    they owe to dheeraj and to osho to come up and not be scared
    there is lack of courage in many sannyasins who knows the truth , but would not speak out of fear

  119. Amano says:

    Does anyone knows about greek mukta , gardner of lao tzu house . i heard she is sick and loose memory and is has been kicked out of lao tzu and live in koregaon park north side somewhere .

  120. Amano says:

    Exiles members of inner circle are not best , but they would have run the place much more nicely , right now managment teams is running the place like some kind of hotel where everything goes . sanyasins and osho lovers has been reduce to customers and inner circle has become corporation. i
    management team in resort really stinks………
    is amrito and jayesh insane that they can not see heart and soul of so many osho lovers .

  121. shantam prem says:

    It looks like when Marx dubbed RELIGION as the OPIUM for the masses, he was not aware about MEDITATION,The new wonder drug*

    Meditation, it helps people to become silent. Does this silence improves the quality of Dialogue between different components of life or it helps people to play cunningness and deception in more artistic form.
    We all have to think about it, sannyasins definately because the words of Osho are so powerful to create incense frgarance in the inner world, add Dynamic and Kundalini and every other group or individual looks pigmy.
    But does this all have improved quality of Dialogue?
    Why someone from OSho foundation or friends international does not answer?

  122. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem, up to your usual broadcasting of uninformed information. In this case: It looks like when Marx dubbed RELIGION as the OPIUM for the masses, he was not aware about MEDITATION,The new wonder drug*

    According to Marx, religion is an expression of material realities and economic injustice. Thus, problems in religion are ultimately problems in society. Religion is not the disease, but merely a symptom. It is used by oppressors to make people feel better about the distress they experience due to being poor and exploited. On that level Marx was right on the money. One only needs to check out the masses in India to see how true this is ie, next life will be better.
    Wether or not Marx was aware of meditation is beside the point, because real meditation has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with bringing a quality of religiousness into an individual’s life, which is quite the opposite efffect of opium, it being an analgesic narcotic which lessens personal awareness as opposed to meditation increasing it.
    Certain meditation techniques are in fact a bit like drugs in that they are addictive, in the sense that if the practicioner does not practice them he or she does not feel as good as if they had. Nonetheless, this has nothing to do with real meditation, which simply means being 100% present in whatever one is doing, from driving a car to making love. Meditation is not something one does but rather a quality that enters one’s life. You do not need to belong to any religion to practice meditation. Therefore your claim that meditation is some kind of wonder drug is a superflous and sensationalist one that bears no relevance whatsoever to what Osho actually meant by meditation. Meditators might make good neighbours but it does not come as a guaranteed consequence that a meditator will do things better than a person who does not meditate.

  123. Raghu says:

    Dear Amano…I dont think Mukta is in India…so sam, she is throun out…who gifted 17 koregaonpark land to Osho..when Jayes was not born..so sammm

  124. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, what you say about meditation i am not going to contradict. The punch in my comment is still relevant as it was pointing towards a particular situation.
    and sometime it is quite a sign of intimacy when you make joke about the things you appreciate the most.
    For example, Meditation as a wonder drug. I find this phrase, top of the bracket, not aggressive yet pointing towards the fanatic dogma built around this word.

    Five time Namaz, every day in the church for prayer, Simran and Bhakti, and now Viagra of them all Meditation, If all these are unable to create an easiness in us to make the possibility of DIALOGUE, the flowering of harmony, the best wishes for the very others and the capacity to take stand when it is necessary, than all this is not more than a Drug, it is opium for the soul.
    I stay with this.

  125. shantam prem says:

    Shantam Prem, up to your usual broadcasting of uninformed information….
    Lokesh, you are 24×7 welcome to correct the uniformed information. If seekers don´t support each other than who else?
    My intention is also not to create smear campaign against any body, be it a fly or an elephant.

    As one undersigns in the legal documents-
    facts stated above are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
    shantam I singh
    05.07.2010

  126. Sadhu says:

    Now Osho is gone…no more fire…He left his dream…who will make his dream???? WHO?

  127. shantam prem says:

    Raghu, are you the same Raghu, who was making delicious Chai in Zorba Kitchen?

    The story of Mukta´s contribution and her iron soul in the fragile body….She is the jewel of a seeker and a sannyasin.
    Her´s is not the story of centruies before, it is living and breathing in this age and time.
    Please, tell more about her.

  128. Chinmaya says:

    Thanks to all Angels, for coming up with true pictures expressing woes of pilgrimage fellows in the Garden of Osho. Death is crescendo of life. Some are dead, others are on the way to cemetry.

    Hey dear Jayesh and Amrito, you also come out and enlighten us with your views. Just un-burden your heart. Catharsis gives good relief. Don’t feel shy. Be brave.

  129. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem, I suggest that it’s not easy, it’s in fact well nigh impossible to meditate when in the grip of strong emotions.

    Do you really think that any dialogue between the Resort managers and their opponents would be likely to be cordial and reasonable?

    More likely to be destroyed by emotion, especially that of the ‘opposition’.

    For a start, the two sides would have diametrically opposing beliefs:
    You people asserting your ‘democratic rights’, with the management clearly holding to the ‘spirituality is an aristocracy’ viewpoint.

    Not a hope of a solution in sight, I truly think you’d be better off conserving your precious energy for your own meditation.

  130. Satya Deva says:

    ‘Aristocracy’ or rather perhaps, ‘dictatorship’….

  131. Anand says:

    Amano: Mukta lives in Austria in Innsbruck.

  132. frank says:

    well,i`m glad that enlightenment or a good shag,or whatever it is you guys are after,doesnt depend on me spending time in a filthy poluted indian city,any more….surrounded by would-be holy men waffling their spiritual halitosis at me through their dhal-stained beards….
    now,i can get enlightened in the comfort of me own home and environs and all that money i handed out to airlines,embassies,dodgepot landlords,doctors,quacks,crooked cabbies, feckless oriental birds,black-robed mountebanks,dodgepot religionists etc etc ,
    i can now invest in the things that are actually happening here and now…..

    meanwhile for enlightentertainment,i can enjoy the spectacle of the rival purveyors of “osho`s vision” of trying to bring freedom from and transcendence of the “ego”to “the world”,using all the deception,aggression and divisiveness that is associated with the “ego” for the job……

    it`s how it should be……

    dont forget that in indian mythology the world started when two gods got into a row about who was cheating at dice……

    they never sorted it…..

    so the world`s still here….

    allelujia

  133. Amano says:

    Sp,. Mukta was taken care by Big prem last year and was living in private house in near osho teerth park
    She was often seen speaking and arraguing with sudheer and yogendra ( jayesh brother) about trees which were cut during new zorba restarant project near swimming pool………. she was very against cutting trees and bamboos, but looks like no one listened her in her last years in 17 koregaon park. so she left. just now i heard that she lives in australia, i hope mukta is doing well with her health. she is truely jewel of sanyasins and her contribution is more much anyone can imagine

  134. Satya Deva says:

    How about this for an idea:

    There will NEVER, EVER, be any ‘united movement’ of sannyasins again, as it was, or as it would be preferred to become on the part of those longing for a ‘return to past glories’.

    Too many disparate individuals, groups, sub-groups, nationalities, conditions, stages of awareness, conditionings, beliefs, values, ignorance, egos/selves (!!) etc. – a veritable powder keg of a ‘melting pot’!

    I honestly see the truth of this as undeniable and final.

    No way will it be the same, or even approaching the same.

    As Osho once admonished his recalcitrant people:
    “You’re on your own!”

  135. frank says:

    that`s right.

    and as MC Buddha famously put it:

    “get a life unto yourself”

  136. Lokesh says:

    Yes, and while you are at it no need to try and put your foot in the same part of the river twice. It simply does not work that way.

  137. frank says:

    bhagwan and sheela were right.
    if you want a coherent group,you need a coherent enemy.or preferably lots of them.

    we had `em all in the old days:

    so-called saints
    the “ugly old man”and his
    rotten religions
    cunning politicians
    third-rate pygmies
    retarded idiots
    oregonians
    piss-drinking hindus
    yellow journalists
    ronald reagan and his monkey
    the polack pope
    ayatollah khomeniac
    californiacs
    mentally ill jesus christ
    homosexual prince philip
    mucktananda sewage lagoon
    mother theresa
    global suicide
    aids victims

    ah,those were the days……….

    without proper enemies,you have to fight amongst yourselves.
    so its down to
    the de-oshofiers
    against the marble-kissers

    bit of a come-down,eh?

  138. shantam prem says:

    Frank, I am sure not just you but almost all of us must have heard from uncles and Aunts, mom and Dad that-

    YOU can get enlightened in the comfort of your own home and environs and all that money you handed out to airlines,embassies,dodgepot landlords,doctors,quacks,crooked cabbies, feckless oriental birds,black-robed mountebanks,dodgepot religionists etc etc ,
    You can invest in the things that are actually happening here and now…..

    Has anyone of us listened that time?

    and i hope this much maturtiy we all have acheived t not to tell to the new generation what we heard from our wise relatives, “Sooner of later you will know what we are saying…”

  139. frank says:

    i am not talking to the new generation.
    to them i say “do what thou wilt”
    i am talking to the old generation who sound liKe
    the record`s stuck,
    the record`s stuck,
    the record`s stuck.

  140. shantam prem says:

    There will NEVER, EVER, be any ‘united movement’ of sannyasins again..
    SD: this is a clear writing on the wall.
    But the movement will take a sharp upturn once the aged 60 plus sannyasins in the Osho think tank disappear. They are too much burdened by what they heard Him saying face to face.

    And even if the whole thing disappear from the human memory as many groups and people wish that, still we all need to look into our self for our sense of gratitude or shame.

  141. shantam prem says:

    Not a hope of a solution in sight, I truly think you’d be better off conserving your precious energy for your own meditation.

    As if this conserveation of precious energy will turn the papers into the Warren Buffet´s Berkshire Hathaways shares.

  142. shantam prem says:

    Nothing is wrong with the record or the spekers, Frank, fault lies in the broken needle which is making friction on the smooth surface of the record.
    This needle will be changed sooner or later.
    This may look far fetched to those who still have the mind set that The Sun will never set on the queen´s empire.

  143. frank says:

    god save the queen
    its a fascist regime
    made you a moron
    potential h bomb
    god save the queen
    we mean it,man
    no future no future
    no future
    for you…….

  144. shantam prem says:

    There are well over 10,000 different kinds of bees. They fall into many categories such as:

    Miners and Carpenters
    Masons and Plasterers
    Leaf-cutters
    social bees
    cuckoo bees

    They have one thing in common, they sing togehter, “god save the queen.”

  145. Satya Deva says:

    shantam prem:

    SD:Not a hope of a solution in sight, I truly think you’d be better off conserving your precious energy for your own meditation.

    SP:As if this conserveation of precious energy will turn the papers into the Warren Buffet´s Berkshire Hathaways shares.

    shantam prem:

    Nothing is wrong with the record or the spekers, Frank, fault lies in the broken needle which is making friction on the smooth surface of the record.
    This needle will be changed sooner or later.
    This may look far fetched to those who still have the mind set that The Sun will never set on the queen´s empire

    SD:
    What are you in this ‘spiritual game’ for anyway, SP?

    What’s the point of it all, all the meditation etc?

    To liberate India from the last vestiges of British rule?!!

    You often sound as if that’s the case…Still angry, after all these years…?

    And, btw, how DID you get on with your father?!!

    What I see with you is you hiding behind all this pseudo-nationalistic huffing-and-puffing, this convenient assumption of inter-generational conflict, unable to see or to face the reality, simply unwilling to let go, to accept and recognise death, when it’s staring you in the face, in the form of the very situation you’re obsessed with.

  146. Satya Deva says:

    Here’s what I recommend for you, SP:

    Tune in for 10 minutes or so to Jed McKenna: ‘Death ALWAYS Delivers’ (at youtube.com).

  147. Satya Deva says:

    Also, try being truly honest, ie take a look inside and see whether this overwhelming obsession for ‘restoring past glories’ , for ‘experimenting with life’, is really little else than an overwhelming obsession with getting as much sex, with as many different young (of course) partners, as possible?!!

    And I’d stake a hundred pounds to a penny that’s much of what motivates rajneesh, for a start….

    Please, no fancy word-play, trickily elaborate metaphors from the business world – just tell it like it is!

  148. Lokesh says:

    All we need now is for Love Bubble (Prem Bubbie) and some muslim nutter saying ‘Allah Hoo Akbar’ to show up and the twenty-first century picture of the Tower of Babel will be complete.

  149. prem bubbie says:

    You rang??? What a lovely bunch of koo-koonuts!! The next time we hear from rajneesh-baby is when he’s promoting some group or therapy session… Sadhu asks “He left his dream…who will make his(Osho’s) dream ?” Answer: we make our own dreams(live). Even osho made his dream live, some may say successfully some say otherwise. Sadhu, we don’t need another parrot…what part of that don’t you understand? Same with the rest of you (sad)clowns. 35 years some of you have been meditating… all wasted energy if all you’re going to do is recite Osho scriptures and abbreviated quotes. Shantam Prem: Do you do anything else with your time? Addicted to Sannyasnews gossip… so pathetic!! Frank: I can see you now with spiked hair, torn clothes and a chain collar around your neck— you’re such a Punk—-rocker!!! Holiday in the Sun. no, not in India!!! and yes Lokesh, I am a nut, what’s holding you back? Too afraid to tell the truth? Koo-KooNuts unite!!!

  150. Sadhu says:

    Rabia, Sardar, Mukta, Anando, Manisha, Shunyo and many who were whole there life around Osho, where they gone….my Gos is this Osho’s dream dear friends?????

  151. Chinmaya says:

    Either they are in utter silence or may be they are suffering from Alzheimers/Parkinson, which have created a vacuum in the absence of any replies from J & A. Hope, fellow sanyasins can help themto their sufferings or they shud please part with their Budhha-hood with us. Amin………

  152. Lokesh says:

    The Love Bubble has burst and showered us with, with…with love. Prem Bubbie has attained Bubblehood. This is indeed cause for celebration. Is this all part of Osho’s dream? One big explosion for Prem Bubbie and one wee pop for mankind.
    I’m lost for words.

  153. Satya Deva says:

    Sadhu Jul 6, 2010

    Rabia, Sardar, Mukta, Anando, Manisha, Shunyo and many who were whole there life around Osho, where they gone….my Gos is this Osho’s dream dear friends?????

    SD:
    Presumably, they’re simply living their lives, or they’re dead!

    Sannyas is or was a coming together of individuals, not a political movement.

    They’re ‘on their own’ – like you and me….

  154. shantam prem says:

    Also, try being truly honest, ie take a look inside and see whether this overwhelming obsession for ‘restoring past glories’ , for ‘experimenting with life’, is really little else than an overwhelming obsession with getting as much sex, with as many different young (of course) partners, as possible?!!

    And I’d stake a hundred pounds to a penny that’s much of what motivates rajneesh, for a start….

    Please, no fancy word-play, trickily elaborate metaphors from the business world – just tell it like it is!
    Satya Deva

    The question i have asked you many times, were you a single time in Puna 2 or your Odyssey with the Osho movement saturated with Poona one and ranch?
    You have not answered it. In this case, silence means No.

    Ok…. Puna 2 was much much different than the previous phases. Even animals learn from the mistakes of the past, what to say about human beings or the master like Osho…
    Osho movement related with sex is in the brains of those who went away after poona one sight seeing.

    But yes.. Osho has always maintained freedom to chose one´s partner oneself without going into the opinion of family, caste religion and financial status.
    Love for the sake of Love.
    In the context of India it is still a revolutionary thought, you can check my previous article about (Dis)honour killings in India.

    And amazing thing is not a single Indian guru man or woman has ever condemned it, even those who go to the west for some DARSHAN.
    Do you know they go to the west with the idea that people there are starving for human warmth, that their life style is hedonist and they endrose those Aryan values of cow milk, Mantra chanting.. grass chewing.. and fucking for procreation*.

    If some one likes such kind of humbo jumbo from my mother land, Osho will always look weird, therefore bury Him under the bush or cut the completion of His work in a way that it fits with these Hindu belief mongers.

    If misuse of freedom given by Osho was misused, it is because of us, sannyasins and nothing to do with His vision.
    And for this reason, the collective management after 1990 was taking enough steps to shed away the remaining burden of past.

    SO i make it very clear…when i say about the restoration of the lost glory at 17, Koregaon Park, it has nothing to do with sex chakra or the head energy, but heart and the beyond…and As Osho has no condemnation for the lower…so a complete acceptance of all that is.

  155. shantam prem says:

    If freedom given by Osho was misused….

  156. Satya Deva says:

    So, it is to do with sex then!!

  157. Satya Deva says:

    With the ‘Restoration of Past Glories’ actually meaning the restoration of a walk-in International Dating Agency and, who knows, Marriage Bureau….

  158. shantam prem says:

    Let me repeat a joke again-
    In the far away villages in Gujarat and Punjab, when it was asked to young men, ” why you go to Rajneesh Ashram in Poona.?
    Answer used to be, ” All the western embassies have shifted there.”

  159. shantam prem says:

    Were you in Poona a single time after 1985, Satya deva?

  160. Satya Deva says:

    You know, SP, where you’re coming from is perfectly understandable, but it’s refreshing to have the truth out in the open, unadorned by fancy words and metaphors.

  161. shantam prem says:

    One sincere suggestion for you Satya Deva?

    It is always said one should not mix the prescription of one doctor with the other.
    Enjoy your life with Indian motherly saints. I think activites around them suit better with your temprament, and moreover saintly people are made in the assembly lines. One can change the model, once the dust settles unto dust.

    People like me have difficulty to indulge in such luxuries, who feel-Once you are with a living Master, you are always with a living Master.

  162. Satya Deva says:

    Careful, SP, do I detect just a tiny bit of anger seeping out under that White Robe…?!

  163. shantam prem says:

    Were you in Poona a single time after 1985, Satya deva?
    Yes or no?

    Than it will be easy to discuss the truthful picture, whether restoration of the ashram as per the Charter of His vision means free sex or the international daiting agency.

    I remember Osho saying in 1988 discourse, not to fall in love with the man or woman next door. Expand your search even to the far way stars when possiblity arises

    and during the same period He is heard Saying,” Every Zen Master gives a Quan. I have also given you a Quan and than after a silence of anticipation He delivers the Googly, ” My quan for you is relationship.”

    This is OSHO… the master who spoke on Krishna, Buddha, Jesus in the most fluid language possible. This is Osho who delivered vulgar jokes with same ease.

  164. Satya Deva says:

    Ok, SP, enjoy your undoubted spiritual superiority…

    And good luck with all the young foreign ladies…

  165. Satya Deva says:

    And no, I wasn’t around after ’85.

    And yes, it’s totally refreshing to bring out into the open, so thanks for being honest.

  166. shantam prem says:

    No Satya Deva, anger is not there, a bit of irritation was.
    But this is human.

    Angry i get only when i see someone in the higher position misusing the power or authority over others.

  167. shantam prem says:

    Ok.. Satya deva…for a study tour, let us go to Poona and few other places of spiritual interest.
    in Poona, be my guest.

    It is a stand by invittaion.

  168. Satya Deva says:

    shantam prem Jul 6, 2010

    No Satya Deva, anger is not there, a bit of irritation was.
    But this is human.

    SD:
    But “a bit of irritation” is “just a tiny bit of anger” – isn’t it?!

    Come on, SP, let’s not spoil all this lovely, pristine honesty!

  169. shantam prem says:

    Ok, bro. Irritation is a bit of anger. I accept this.
    Does it mean..i or you drop the friendship, does it mean we send each other in exile and cut each other from our lives?
    No.. i don´t think so. If anger used properly can make positive emotions better and refined.

    What really really makes me angry and it will make you and others angry too.
    http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/07/05/mobasherat.stoning.cnn?hpt=C2

  170. shantam prem says:

    Khap Panchayat near Delhi ‘orders killing of eloped couple’…(ndtv.com)

    In a fast changing India, with advent of prosperity and education, more and more young people are willing to follow the path of love rather arranged marriages.
    Almost every week, some young life is getting killed by the tradition loving parents and their social net work.

    Osho would have started His discourses with this burning theme. Others will never dare to touch such topic so Osho will thunder like a Lion.
    Next day.. it will be in the press, in the television and so on.

    When i say restoration of Poona, it means taking stand as His people for the causes dearest to the Master.
    Osho´s spirituality is not just getting silent but participating in Life with intelligence and sharpness too.

    Now the latest case is in Delhi, just stone thrown away from Osho world head quarters.
    The press man Chitanya Keerti is there. But the sad reality is, he will not be able to issue press release, neither to print something in the magazine.
    Why?

    Again the blame goes to Pune.

    Osho had built the reputation of Pune in such a way that world was taking notice. But when it came to the disciples,through their open fight, the moral power inhereted got drained out.
    Now any one sannyasin who will take a public stand will be taunted, ” first bring the order in your own house.”

  171. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem:
    Osho´s spirituality is not just getting silent but participating in Life with intelligence and sharpness too.

    SD:
    Obscenities indeed, SP. And why not get involved, if you feel to?

    But where do you draw the line? If we open our eyes, this world is literally teeming with comparable injustices, horrors of man’s inhumanity to man.

    And always has been…And possibly always will…Who knows?

    And are you or I any better?

  172. Satya Deva says:

    And if you advocate the Ashram/Osho’s ‘movement’ speaking out against injustice you’ll be turning it into yet another socio-political entity…

    Along the slippery slope towards becoming…another ‘Church’, another bloody religion, another bunch of moralists….

    Can’t you grasp that yet?

  173. Anand says:

    Shantam’s Prem’s church of doing good and knowing it right.

    Not my choice either.

  174. Satya Deva says:

    But if you feel so strongly, SP, then why not go out and get involved yourself, stand up and do something, give your very life to it?

    Otherwise, it’s just a load of impotent hot air, isn’t it?

    So easy it is to just sit, wringing our hands and pontificate….

  175. shantam prem says:

    So simple is Like this, those who feel impressed by Mother Terresa will open the hospitals, orphange or will they go for Night clubs?
    This is the way legacy moves, rivers flow, different flowers blosssem.
    Similarly those who are particpating with Osho will stand for the causes dearest to Him. LOVE in all its dimension is one of the cause dearest to Osho, even the deaf will feel this, when they listen Osho, Blinds will see this, when they read Osho. Those who think it is just Meditation”, they are doing injustice to Him.

    And other fact..If it is so easy to write like an hot air; many will not write with false names. Fear of retribution makes people Fence sitter.

    And yes.. i am not writing on Punja ji or Amma ji or gagaji´s site. Sannyasnews is a site for Osho´s people and i am fueling the fire of His people.
    Those sannyasins who think they are the charming dimple on Osho´s cheeks, well and good. I know i am typesetting the words of sannyas heart beat.
    And even if it is not so, i am just the rectum, the asshole of Osho o´movement, i am happy to take that role too.

  176. shantam prem says:

    Along the slippery slope towards becoming…another ‘Church’, another bloody religion, another bunch of moralists….

    There is a famous story used again and again.Osho has narrated this too.
    When a master asks the new comer, how were the people in the previous village. The disciple answers, ” very bad, un polite, not loving at all. Master says, ” Sorry son, here also you will find the people similar.”
    and when another time, another disciple answer the same question with, ” in that village people were just marvellous, so loving and hospitable. Master answered, ” in this village also you will find them living and full of hospitality.”

    This is the stroy for broken souls from Christian backgrounds. So full of shit and rage against the religion of their parents, and so afraid that Osho should not turn into another religion.
    Such kind of people with low self esteem don´t bother to bow down before the imaginary statue of Buddha, they don´t feel low when the chant Mantras in a language they hardly know but with Osho….no no no…

    My God.. OSho himself started the CULT with its own rituals and festivals, Millions simply stoped coming to Osho because of this, those who feel offended can get out. No guilt No Stigma. Just get out and find another Rickshaw..

  177. Satya Deva says:

    Well, SP, did Osho ever actually praise any religion,or ‘religion’ per se? I think you’ll find that he had harsh words for the whole stinking lot of them.

    Why do you think that was?

    Something to do with foolish people- however well-meaning, however devoted to the original Master – following their unenlightened instincts and preferences after the Master has disappeared, and inevitably getting into problems, within themselves and with other former disciples.

    Taking what suited them and making fixed beliefs, rituals and ceremonies, rights and wrongs, and so on…

    In short, creating groups…splinter groups…sects…religions….

    Do you understand?!

  178. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Prem:
    And yes.. i am not writing on Punja ji or Amma ji or gagaji´s site. Sannyasnews is a site for Osho´s people and i am fueling the fire of His people.
    Those sannyasins who think they are the charming dimple on Osho´s cheeks, well and good. I know i am typesetting the words of sannyas heart beat.
    And even if it is not so, i am just the rectum, the asshole of Osho o´movement, i am happy to take that role too.

    SD:
    What a load of egotistical codswallop, SP!

    You come across there as just another self-righteous fanatic…

    Sincere, of course – but aren’t all fundamentalist fools?!

  179. Satya Deva says:

    Are you sure, btw, you’re not angry?!

    And if you truly imagine that Osho taught political and social action as equally important as meditation and clearing one’s inner space, then sorry, you’re sadly deluded.

    Angry now, perhaps…just a hint of a tiny bit of irritation…?!

  180. shantam prem says:

    http://www.sikhnet.com/audio/meri-khallo-mojre-gursikh-hadande

    SD, enjoy the music and song from my parental religion.
    wordings are translated in English too.

  181. Chinmaya says:

    Sata Deva,

    You are correct. Even PM of the country, Home Minister, UPA Chair Person Sonia Gandhi, Chief Minister of the State and other high ranking officials are silent spectator to the honour killing. They are reducing their own population by killing to their own children, they have no taste of teenage love and it is the sign of their being un-intelligence and stupidity.

    Yes Osho would have got a nice subject to put the fuel on fire, to the society; and media/press had got a sufficient material, but who bothers to the spread of killings and propagation on any topic in India. But we cannot predict, how He would have supported or rejected to the subject but surely, would have gone into a great length. Once He went on speaking for 3 hours 40 minutes and my testicles were in great trouble, I was full with my bladder. It took about 4 hours in all, which included the time to stand in the queue to go to Lao Tse Hall, during the initial days.

    Everybody is walkiing with his/her own speed and intoxication of ego. People have understood the reality on the truth on the background of politicians. People are busy to earn their bread and butter and to come up with their individual houses before it is too late to buy in future, with rocketing prices.

    And now a day, people simply talk on the subject Meditation, God, Budhha-hood, Satsang etc. and gather togather but for the sake of their marketing to their products. Who bothers to these Punja ji, Gagga ji, Amma ji. They are shops and selling their products to the innocent people. New bottles old wine. Nothing contains new-ness. New-ness person – Osho – has departed with his body.

    Amin……..

  182. Sadhu says:

    yes Stya Deva…you are right when you sid, “Sannyas is or was a coming together of individuals, not a political movement.” BUt drear friend…when one live with person like Osho…learnt so muach that can be ver usefull for others who are new on the path…thay can become mile stone…just imagin if all sannyasins who werw around osho, live one place like Poona…and some one totally new will enter in the gateless gate..what will happen…and without this, just go in to resort….sorry meditaion resort…and you will see…you will feel…one dead place..no more warmth, love, laughter…what to say Osho and his fragrance???

  183. Lokesh says:

    I was just running over the last twenty posts or so. I think some of you people really want to pack up and move on. All this Osho babble really is old hat. Remember, I am coming from a place where I loved the man and am grateful for all he taught me. including not becoming attached to the finger pointing at the moon.
    One thing that some of you obviously don’t realize is that what happened with teachers like Poonjaji would not have been nearly so successful and effective had it not been for Osho. He ploughed the ground, planted the seeds, trimmed the branches and watered the hollow bamboos so that teachings like advaita vedanta could one day flower in the consciousness of his sannyasins, something I sincerely believe has happened.
    To see people like yourselves wasting hours firing off some of the spiritual bullshit being bandied around on this blog has nothing to do with Osho’s dream and everything to do with basic mindfuck dressed up in a holy disguise.
    Don’t kid yourself. If Osho is who he said he was he has merged with existence. The wonderful guy with the beard and rolls royces who left you his dream was only a puppet for the divine to speak through. If you really think and feel it is necessary for you to have a spiritual master to get where you imagine you want to go on your spiritual journey, I strongly suggest you stop wasting your time talking about it and find a man or woman to bow down at their divine tootsies. I can assure you that the simple and humble act of bowing down at such a person’s feet will serve you much better than worshiping a person that many of you obviously did not know very well.
    Wise men leave behind in books what they can’t take with them when they leave this world.

  184. Chinmaya says:

    There will be no need to make any special nook and corner for me; I WILL BE DISSOLVED IN MY PEOPLE. Just as you can taste the sea from any place — and it is salty — you will taste any of my sannyasins, and you will find the same taste, the taste of Bhagwan, the taste of the Blessed One.

    I AM WAITING for the right moment. Once the new commune is established, all my sannyasins will be called Bhagwans. Then it will really be a Bhagwan movement!

    OSHO
    The Goose Is Out
    Ch #10:

  185. Chinmaya says:

    In the real journey of life, YOUR OWN INTUITION IS YOUR ONLY TEACHER. Have you looked at the word ‘intuition’? It is the same as ‘tuition’. Tuition is given by teachers, from outside; intuition is given by your own nature, from inside. You have your guide within you.

  186. prem bubbie says:

    Mr. Shantam Prem-dawg, to address a couple of points that you make. first, “If freedom given by osho was misused…”, osho can not give or take away a person’s freedom, the cosmos has given freedom to all of us, by birthright, so osho can’t give give or take what is inherent to all of us. second, you say .. not one Indian guru has condemned honor killings, there’s an old saying ,”One doesn’t bite the hand that feeds him(her). If they did, they’d be out of business, and business in being a guru is what it’s about. This goes for “enlightened” gurus. If osho condemned the violence, bribery, abuse, back stabbing, vicious gossip, drug dealing, prostitution by his so-called sannyasins, there would not have been a Pune 1, 2, 3 ashram or ranch or local branches of osho ashrams. He welcomed all regardless the baggage they carried and insanity they manifested. So the demise of the ranch and pune ashrams… All of these misfits were osho’s “bread and butter”, without whom only tiny centers may have existed and certainly no books published and grand celebrations manifested…. There are other so-called enlightened gurus who could be used as further proof to support this contention. Stop being such idealists, such purists, being so, just furthers you from the truth and from reality. I continue to contend that most sannyasins and wannabe’s are in denial and live in a delusional state. Wake up and smell the roses and puke. that’s what real life is about… get real or get institutionalized.

  187. prem bubbie says:

    SP. you say “Anger I get only when I…”. Now you being dishonest….. I can give many examples just by your responses to me… You are so full of shit… I guess you’re just trying to show your moral superiority to others by your shallow and hollow discourses regarding osho’s vision… I was going to say you could do better, but you really don’t have the intelligence for that to happen..

  188. shantam prem says:

    ” If you really think and feel it is necessary for you to have a spiritual master to get where you imagine you want to go on your spiritual journey, I strongly suggest you stop wasting your time talking about it and find a man or woman to bow down at their divine tootsies. I can assure you that the simple and humble act of bowing down at such a person’s feet will serve you much better than worshiping a person that many of you obviously did not know very well.”

    Yes, Lokesh truth of all the truths.
    Should i send you the list of these people or you want to see them at the airport departure and arrival board!

    and when someone will sit at the tootises of such people in between the crowd of few thousand, than obviously they will know him/her very well.

    I think this is also bit too far fetched. The best will be to marry a Zen Master, like Lokesh has done.

  189. shantam prem says:

    Bubbie, the ass licker…should i take notice of your comments.
    Now i have addressed you as an ass licker that too not of a female human, is this enough to prove, i am angry.
    May be this is simply Newton´s third law, action and reaction are equal and opposite.
    You like to insult.. you get back from the Superior Saint Dowg from India..

  190. prem bubbie says:

    Lokesh, Your new name is Love Bubble …. So much bliss radiating from you….

  191. prem bubbie says:

    SP: your true colors shine brightly, you can’t hide your anger with your dim witted words.. Honesty is foreign to you… You are like a human chameleon, using honesty or dishonesty as vehicles to boost your pathetic ego… BTW, “Dawg” or “dog” is a slang word used by city youth in the U.S.as an pleasant greeting towards another….. what happened to this “new world” interconnection? Sounds like a bunch of rubbish to me, same old isolationists.

  192. shantam prem says:

    If osho condemned the violence, bribery, abuse, back stabbing, vicious gossip, drug dealing, prostitution by his so-called sannyasins, there would not have been a Pune 1, 2, 3 ashram or ranch or local branches of osho ashrams.

    Bubbie, you were in the ranch, who knows you have seen this or heard about it.
    Lokesh, SD and Anand were active in Poona one days, were they witness of all this?
    Who knows.
    I am watching the game unfold from Poona 2 days, and be sure all the above accusations of yours are fictions of rumour mongers.
    Most of the money invested is seekers hard earned money or money earned by Jayesh through his business intelligence.
    Sell your collected food stamps and buy a ticket to Pune, STILL..it is the best spiritual package one can get.
    Look with your eyes and than comment.
    When i am condemning Jayesh Management it has the reasons based on the interptation of collective sannyas heritage.
    And my posts are addressed to sannyasins, who feel oneness with Osho and His work inspite of His not being in the body.
    My service is avialable for those who are on the board of Osho Innerways.
    Ryan Air passangers can check their service counter in the transit Lounge named incredible India.

  193. shantam prem says:

    So my Buddy, the dawg– you point something and i come out from isolationist island.
    You have reminded me about the first sentence of the paragraph. Give your commentry keeping in mind the context it was used.
    If freedom given by Osho was misused, it is because of us, sannyasins and nothing to do with His vision.
    And for this reason, the collective management after 1990 was taking enough steps to shed away the remaining burden of past.

    And also the point was clear when SD reminded me that little bit of irritation is also tiny anger.

    and my acceptance of it and also the statement If anger used properly can make positive emotions better and refined.

    What really really makes me angry and it will make you and others angry too.
    http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/07/05/mobasherat.stoning.cnn?hpt=C2

    I hope you have seen this video and have felt anger too.

  194. shantam prem says:

    PLEASE READ THE NEWS AT YOUR OWN RISK. NOT SUITABLE FOR CHILDREN UNDER 12 AND PEACE AND SILENCE SEEKERS SATSANG-ISTS

    Human rights activist tries to stop death by stoning for Iranian woman-

    CNN) — A veteran Iranian human rights activist has warned that Sakineh Mohammadie Ashtiani, a mother of two, could be stoned to death at any moment under the terms of a death sentence handed down by Iranian authorities.

    Only an international campaign designed to pressure the regime in Tehran can save her life, according to Mina Ahadi, head of the International Committee Against Stoning and the Death Penalty.

    “Legally it’s all over,” Ahadi said Sunday. “It’s a done deal. Sakineh can be stoned at any minute.”

    “That is why we have decided to start a very broad, international public movement. Only that can help.”
    Ashtiani, 42, will be buried up to her chest, according to an Amnesty International report citing the Iranian penal code. The stones that will be hurled at her will be large enough to cause pain but not so large as to kill her immediately.

    Ashtiani, who is from the northern city of Tabriz, was convicted of adultery in 2006

  195. Lokesh says:

    I am a love bubble. Thank you Guru Bubbleji. Glub, glub, glub….pop! The bubble burst and he merged with the divine bubbleness which is who you really are. Wow!

  196. Satya Deva says:

    Chinmaya:
    And now a day, people simply talk on the subject Meditation, God, Budhha-hood, Satsang etc. and gather togather but for the sake of their marketing to their products. Who bothers to these Punja ji, Gagga ji, Amma ji. They are shops and selling their products to the innocent people. New bottles old wine. Nothing contains new-ness. New-ness person – Osho – has departed with his body.

    SD:
    Apart from Lokesh’s excellent point about Osho having very much prepared the way for such teachings to take effect, you, Chinmaya, like many other Osho people, fail to realise that Osho didn’t attract everyone, not all spiritual seekers rated him or wished to be around his people.

    I think you’re blindingly ignorant of both the teachers you denigrate here and their non-Osho-affiliated ‘pupils’. KIndly correct me if I’m wrong, of course.

  197. shantam prem says:

    In Conversation with the Dalai Lama
    Published On: Jul 07, 2010 | Duration: 56 min 06 sec

    http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=151022

  198. shantam prem says:

    What a video.. thanks and all the love to the participants on this blog.
    May honesty and love spreads.

  199. Anand says:

    For once I agree with Bubbie: Osho was open to all people.
    And in Pune 1 in India a lot of hippies were cruising around. With them came drugs, yes…it was the seventies and Goa and Manali were not far. Lokesh will agree. Some women went to Bombay to extend their stay and so on….we were mostly misfits then.
    At a certain point maybe in 1978 the visitors changed and more sophisticated people arrived, teachers etc. from Italy and Germany. And during ranch time so much money was needed to build up the ranch.
    So what is the point? Osho accepted all, most of us who practiced Osho meditations grew up and became
    more aware and conscious people and Jayesh got the job in 1990 to keep the place and organization running
    with dwindling resources. He might be the right man for the job, not denying funds from unknown sources, a bit of a gambler….not much into religion, but probably a true disciple of Osho.
    A bit different then our Shantam Prem.

  200. Chinmaya says:

    Satya Deva

    My dear, you and some more here, are far above the enlightened master, it seems. You can offer comments to anyone on any subject and at any place. I am learner and innocent with my meak knowledge on the path of enlightenment.

    Osho spoke at His place irrespective of any caste, creed., nationality, for the people believing in different religion. He was selling his product at His place, this is we, who were participating. His product was like hot-cake and for the intellectual class. For Him, right time, right approach for certain intellectual class meant something.

    God has sent many other hawkers in different streets to sell their products to many other millions. Perhaps, the jurisdiction created by the cosmos, of the level of conscious differs on the basis of lifestyle of their areas with their holy books and teaching etc.etc.

    Yes, you are correct, that we, Oshoities are blind to His sermons. In fact, we were blind till the day we joined Him, with our previous teachings of our elders, seniors and religious advices, though, these teachings were best, but after joining Osho, we could understand clearly, the hidden meanings of the holy books imparted to us by our seniors, elders etc. in a more clear way.

    Osho has not harmed anybody, rather, people were always eager to listen, after paying daily entry fee and His discourse fee by waiting in long queue to enter in Budhha Hall and previously to Lao Tse Hall. People like Sardar Gurudayal Singh, the Rare Spicy, as Osho said him, were in the group for making the life laughing to open the suppressed veins by earlier preachers in our life.

    Participants were in thousands (creamy layer) and not in hundred thousands(mob), there was no free kitchen (Langar) and on the path of real conscience, a few are sufficient than all, as Nature wants. This is a Flight from Alone to Alone.

    So, friends I have written the above, with my little wisdom and please take it in a good spirit and I have no intention to hurt anybody’s feelings or criticize the views of any of us here. God bless.

    Ameen………

  201. Anand says:

    Well written Lokesh, good to have a writer here. My feeling is that once you spent some time at the feet of Osho the master..and we did…there is no other source, which would even come close to it.
    yes we can hug Amma, spending money on a oneness course in South India, go to Buddhist retreats, get hooked and financially drained by the path of love wolves or go to some of the many gurujis and satsang teachers, but Osho was and is the real thing. But our minds are going on…ratatata…ratatati…seeking, searching…..
    The simple truth is hard to grasp, this moment….ahh

  202. prem bubbie says:

    Praise the Lord!!! Lokesh understands!!! We are all bubbles that Consciousness constantly and eternally blows…. When the bubble(ego) pops, back to the Source we go…. and on and on…

  203. Lokesh says:

    The river thunders.
    Bubbles pop.

    Gandooji. 12th century zen master.

  204. Satya Deva says:

    Chnmaya:
    His product was like hot-cake and for the intellectual class. For Him, right time, right approach for certain intellectual class meant something.

    SD:
    I’d disagree there, Chinmaya, in my experience many were certainly not of “the intellectual class” at all. But perhaps you meant the Indians, rather than the westerners?

    And if you think that the people who go to other teachers are from very different sectors of the population then in most cases, from what I’ve seen, you are again mistaken.

    I say again, not every spiritual seeker, “intellectual” or otherwise, rated Osho, he did not have universal appeal.

    Is this too hard for you to take, or what?

  205. Satya Deva says:

    Chinmaya, you sound as if you’re mean that anyone who was/is not attracted to Osho, who didn’t/doesn’t want to be with him, was/is necessarily not of “the intellectual class” – and therefore necessarily ‘inferior’.

    But that does sound very convenient to believe for your Indian conditioning, all that caste stuff, you know what I mean!

    But not at all true, as I said, in my experience.

  206. Satya Deva says:

    Re the advaita teaching, well described by Lokesh, isn’t this just another set of beliefs, unless it’s actually within one’s personal experience?

    (I’m not saying it’s invalid of course).

  207. Satya Deva says:

    SD: 6.13am post:

    Chinmaya, you sound as if you’re mean that

    Should be:
    …you sound as if YOU MEAN that…

  208. shantam prem says:

    SD- it is very true Osho did not have universal appeal and it will not be also.
    There are many psychological reasons behind it, most of all; osho does not fit into the Arche type image of a Master, humble looking, holy dust of the carpet time, who lives rich but pretends poor, just like politicians from South east Asia.
    OSHo is Flamboyant, too assertive; even the mild copy presented by the Ashram will not sell, as it is copy shopped, similarly the image sold by the other group will also not sell much because it is also molded and folded to fit with the Old Delhi mind set.

    Even when Osho was alive, other than 150 people from a city of 3 million care about Osho, and Pune is one of the highly refined and cultural city. Its spectacular growth as an intellectual hub has increased many times since than.

    Now the situation is, even in Koregaon Park, new generation does not know in which street resort exists.

    Does it mean these people are missing something.
    In my opinion not at all.
    Does it also mean the people who stop their car before a Ganesha temple are missing something because they are not going into the Satsang/discourse of some new entrant in the religious domain. Just bowing before a statue..
    At least i don´t think so.

    On a personal level i can sit and talk and built bridges with those who does not boast about their religious beliefs. but the moment they open their mouth and praise their spiritual mentor, i feel to enter the game like the bull who sees the red scarf.
    Because,never for a single second, i have ever tried to convince my relatives, friends and neighbours about Osho.
    But as it is with Astrology, Homeopathy, Sex and Osho, every lay man thinks himself as an Authority; when it becomes too much than to pinch them is as good a work as putting the Frozen Chicken wings in the oven.

  209. shantam prem says:

    Even when Osho was alive, none other than about 150 people from a city of 3 million care about Osho…

  210. Chinmaya says:

    Inferior versus Superior and I never say inferior to the creation of the creator. Intellectual means mental power. Everybody has his own vehicle of experiences because of different chromosome of the father and egg of the mother. The assembly of Ford cars can be the same but even twin coming out of the same womb on the same day, in the same Labour Room through one doctor cannot remain and live at the same platform at physical and mental level in their lifestyle.

    The Mind-set creates a big blow in life, which Osho tried to deplete to enable God to enter in, some could, and some are on the way, who were bornt late. But He is the Master of the Millenium, sooner or later does not matter, the infinite is not in a hurry and has no calendar and time. Cosmos is free such from this conditioning of calculations. Magha Baba and Mehar Baba were always present and were on His side for his becoming enlightened and Master of the Millenium.

    Ameen………

  211. Chinmaya says:

    THAT IS THE ART I HAVE BEEN PRACTICING MY WHOLE LIFE: how to influence people and create enemies. So I have stopped influencing. I am just here, and if anybody feels thirsty the well is available. If you don’t feel thirsty, it is your business. But I’m not preventing you from drinking from my well. I’m available, but I will not even call you to come and drink from my well.

    THE WELL IS THERE, OPEN, AVAILABLE. So those who are intelligent are going to be caught in my net sooner or later. And I want only the intelligent people, because they are the people who will be able to prevent what is going to happen to humanity.

    The ordinary masses and the crowds, the cripples and the blind and the sick who go to Billy Graham for some spiritual miracle, to be healed… they are not my people. If somebody is sick, we have a hospital.

    OSHO
    The Last Testament