When the “Good” man fights, it then becomes a holy war. : Alok John takes a View
Most sannyasins and most Osho discourses veer towards pacifism rather than militarism. However in this striking (edited) extract from chapter 1 of “Krishna : The Man and his Philosophy” Osho appears to say that a major war will need to be fought against the forces of materialism. The discourse was given in 1970. Note the twenty year gap given in the discourse which takes us to 1990, the year, it could be argued, when the US defeated communism and became the sole superpower. You could argue that the US represents the forces of materialism. As for “out-and-out materialism” I would have thought popular writers like Hitchens and Dawkins endorse this view.
Anyway here it is…make of it what you will…
“In a way, the world is facing nearly the same situation India faced during the Mahabharat war. There were two camps, or two classes, at the time of the Mahabharat. One of them was out-and-out materialist; they did not accept anything beyond the body or matter. They did not know anything except the indulgence of their senses; they did not have any idea of yoga or of spiritual discipline. For them the existence of the soul did not matter in the least; for them life was just a playground of stark indulgence, of exploitation and predatory wars (the West?, Alok John’s interpretation). Life beyond the senses and their indulgence held no importance for them.
This was the class against which the war of Mahabharat was waged. And Krishna had to opt for this war and lead it, because it had become imperative. It had become imperative so that the forces of good and virtue could stand squarely against the forces of materialism and evil, so that they were not rendered weak and impotent.
Approximately the same situation has arisen on a worldwide scale, and in twenty years’ time a full replica, a scenario of the Mahabharat will be upon us. On one side will be all the forces of materialism and on the other will be the weaker forces of good and righteousness.
Goodness suffers from a basic weakness: it wants to keep away from conflicts and wars. Arjuna of the Mahabharat is a good man. The word ”arjuna” in Sanskrit means the simple, the straightforward, clean. Arjuna means that which is not crooked. Arjuna is a simple and good man, a man with a clean mind and a kind heart. He does not want to get involved in any conflict and strife; he wants to withdraw. Krishna is still more simple and good; his simplicity, his goodness knows no limits. But his simplicity, his goodness does not admit to any weakness and escape from reality. His feet are set firmly on the ground; he is a realist, and he is not going to allow Arjuna to run away from the battlefield.
Perhaps the world is once again being divided into two classes, into two camps. It happens often enough when a decisive moment comes and war becomes inevitable. Men like Gandhi and Russell will be of no use in this eventuality. In a sense they are all Arjunas. They will again say that war should be shunned at all costs, that it is better to be killed than to kill others. A Krishna will again be needed, one who can clearly say that the forces of good must fight, that they must have the courage to handle a gun and fight a war. And when goodness fights only goodness flows from it. It is incapable of harming anyone. Even when it fights a war it becomes, in its hands, a holy war. Goodness does not fight for the sake of fighting, it fights simply to prevent evil from winning.
By and by the world will soon be divided into two camps. One camp will stand for materialism and all that it means, and the other camp will stand for freedom and democracy, for the sovereignty of the individual and other higher values of life. But is it possible that this camp representing good will find a Krishna to again lead it?
It is quite possible. When man’s state of affairs, when his destiny comes to a point where a decisive event becomes imminent, the same destiny summons and sends forth the intelligence, the genius that is supremely needed to lead the event. And a right person, a Krishna appears on the scene. The decisive event brings with it the decisive man too.
It is for this also that I say Krishna has great significance for the future.
There are times when the voices of those who are good, simple and gentle cease to be effective, because people inclined to evil don’t hear them, don’t fear them, blindly go their own way. In fact, as good people shrink back just out of goodness, in the same measure the mischief makers become bold, feel like having a field day….”
(Osho, Krishna, The Man and his Philosophy, chapter 1)
Well obviously its a great idea..just a little fault though in the practicalities….it needs devoted self righteous adherents to make it come about……if it means replicating a mahabharata..which is not necessarily that clear in the semantic conclusion….lingusitically there is no specific enjoinder for a ‘punch up’..
.but if that is a conclusion to be discussed…..remember ‘the peoples front of judaea’.and the ‘judean peoples front’ (splitters)…and every man’s theoretical right to be a woman ….when was the last womans war ?maybe a knitting competition instead?
Here’s a tip for anyone wanting to be forcefully right according to a selective piece from Osh…
You dont need a Guru…just a short sabbatical say in the pentagon or the kremlin…
Alok what do you dream of at night? Ejecting missiles?
here’s a snippet i found scrawled on the back of a napkin in Lao Tsu once in 1988…
‘I’m having a laugh….signed.the five day buddha’
…(remember that one?)
Okay, okay, it is not me, it is Osho. And as you know it is unusual for Osho to talk like this. And I think materialism has gained ground in the West in our lifetime.
Martyn wrote : “You dont need a Guru…just a short sabbatical say in the pentagon or the kremlin…”
As you know you do not always get what you expect with Osho. According to Osho, Krishna was an enlightened master who supported a major war.
‘Its not me its Osho’….alok …you need a solictor its not a particularly potent defence…… especially in time of war….
I met this bloke right…Krish something..well not exactly met ..uhm i heard about it from a near mythical time in the er pre-history
Yes , go on…
From my Guru…
Yes , and precisely what would the defendant like to add in his defence…..
That im a decent bloke normally m’lud…. but i just got carried away with all the descriptions of heroism and stuff….
.’.and you say you are a vegetarian..and so is your guru
‘Yes m’lud’
and you were found driving a tank down Putney High Street after closing time…
Yes m’lud , but I stopped at the Traffic lights and thats when i realised I was in the wrong mythical dream….
and i had no road tax either which is not much of an excuse but would you take my previous good behaviour into account…. as a meditator
‘Looking for inner peace i presume?
Yes m’lud, whilst driving…..
… a Tank for Krishna.?
ok ….being as i’m posting to myself i’d like to clarify my vision
…..what the meaning is… is bloody obvious….dont let the f*kers walk all over you , stand up and be counted and dont be a wingeing Gandhian…( passive aggressive.)…use your passion to live the truth……and spread it fearlessly…..
and he was using the rajas guna element (by his own definition of this period of his enlightenment )…. of fire when he spoke….
and he never hurt a fly….
any interpretations that are degeneratively absurd ..AVOID !
(shame we don’t have a bohemian french cafe to chat for hours in..instead)
Osho:
And when goodness fights only goodness flows from it. It is incapable of harming anyone. Even when it fights a war it becomes, in its hands, a holy war. Goodness does not fight for the sake of fighting, it fights simply to prevent evil from winning.
SD:
Well, such sentiments have been used by many a tyrant and by many a terrorist, haven’t they?!
My God, not another version of a “holy war”…Wonder if Tony Blair ever read this quote? Or, Osama bin Laden?
Second World War – fine, it had to be fought against rampant evil.
But, as Prem Martyn says, it’s kinda hard to envisage just how such a contemporary war might be fought. After all, they’re ALL at it, every nation, they all want what the West’s got.
And I haven’t noticed any stockpiles of weapons around psycho-spiritual circles over the last 40 years…
Maybe enthusiasts for this approach should begin raising funds…How about a few pence in a jar each time we buy our groceries at the local wholefood shop? Well, it’d be a start….
(But, what on earth was Osho thinking about, saying that rubbish?!).
Ok, Prem Martyn, I think you nailed it just then. Good thinking!
SD wrote “Second World War – fine, it had to be fought against rampant evil.”
I think the Germans and Japanese who fought the war did not perceive themselves as evil. If they had thought themselves evil, they would not have done what they did.
ah yes..the 2nd world war….
oh dear its that moral what would you do….?
history lesson….
well…. 1st world war allied pay back reparations collapsed germany’s fledgling republic….against best advice not to impose crippling debts…. they couldnt borrow enough from New York stock market to pay interest rates….and look at the names of the major financiers then… so after wheelbarrows of cash .. hey presto the new york exchange faced the 1928/9 collapse too….then
so as to stop the soviet commies turning Germany commie, western industrialists clubbed together to sponsor the nazi party…Henry ford was a fan …Unilever built Adolf his first NitroGlycerine gelignite factories..Two on the Baltic ports , breaking interwar embargoes…Unilever the soap people.. why them? because they ran the whaling fleets which also supplied the jelly for the gelignite and then….IBM supplied the early computers for ethnically profiling the whole german population…parts were supplied up until 1942….then ITT KB the US telcommunications giant supplied the phone network… adolf also expressly avoided bombing their factories in france on invasion.there…..
standard oil of the US signed contracts for Italian libyan suppllies…mussolini had a socialist MP killed the day he was due to blow the whistle in italian Parliament…
the british fleet blockaded republican Valencia during the Spanish civil war to prevent diesel reaching anarcho syndicalist communist republicans for eighteen months..until the francoist victory.. despite declaring neutrality to the league of nations…
because adolf and musso were the western capitalists darlings against uncle Joe Stalin.. (co-georgian classmate of Georgi Gurdjieff.)
any parallels with pre war support of saddams Iraq, support of theanti soviet taleban in the eighties and the overthrow of the anti british petroleum mossadeq democracy are purely coincidental…
Britain attempted to keep newly soviet russia in the 1st world war by granting Jews a right of governing abode in Palestine…and UK prime minister Lloyd george did this the evening before the soviet presidium met … because 11 of the 19 soviet presidium members were yes you guessed it Jewish communists……..they ignored him….
evil doesnt really cut the mustard when discussing cause and effect does it?
and think of that as a long winded osho-type detour bit of history meditation
All very true, Martyn.
But Hitler’s Germany was ‘evil’ and had to be opposed, at all costs.
A conventionally ‘boring’ view perhaps, but I don’t see any other sensible alternative, do you?
Alok john:
SD wrote “Second World War – fine, it had to be fought against rampant evil.”
I think the Germans and Japanese who fought the war did not perceive themselves as evil. If they had thought themselves evil, they would not have done what they did.
SD:
Which is precisely why both these countries represented ‘evil’ at that time!
Where ordinary people were caught up in something appaling they had no control over.
Btw, another possible interpretation of Osho’s 1970 talk (above) is the inner war, of course, the one inside us….
(the West?, Alok John’s interpretation)
It is time to see that the east/west divide no longer exists. So many times I’ve see ‘the west’ written on these threads, symbolizing that place over there where consumerism is rampant. For the first time in history we have a global civilization, united under the twin banners of materialism and a viewpoint that says that anything that exists beyond the world of the senses is worthless. People seek money in Delhi and Bangkok even more desperately than those crowding the streets of New York.
Satya Deva, I don’t think Osho was talking about an inner conflict and that his words can be taken, in this particular instance, at face value. During the late seventies Osho began to come away with ‘prophet of doom’ type scenarios. Aids epidemic etc. End of the world is always good for guru business, but it also shows a lack of imagination when it comes to visualizing a better future.
As for the goodies fighting the baddies…well, I don’t see it as being quite as simple and clearly defined as that. Right now if such a confrontation were to come about the baddies would win the fight almost immediately, simply because the odds are stacked on their side.
Take the Dalai Lama’s standpoint with the Chinese invasion of Tibet. He refuses to take up an armed struggle. I think he has adopted this standpoint because he knows that extreme violence does not do anyone any good….in the long run. Perhaps also, some part of him realizes that the fedalistic society that the Tibetan monks ran was not all it is now being cracked up to be. Yes, Britain and her allies defeated the nazis but the Brittish also did a lot of nasty stuff themselves. Addicted China to Opium, enslaved half the planet’s population, and right now they are fighting a phoney war against terrorism that is among other things a way of bringing stricter social controls upon her own population.
In this particular quote can we not read between the lines and see Osho’s ideas about the conflict between good and evil projected into the future and manifesting in Rajneeshpuram, where the sannyasin police force was getting tooled up with uzi sub.machine guns and Sheila was talking about taking ten of them for every one of us.
satya deva….
you can’t justify wars in retrospect…. or you can but then strategically that conversation will not empower your here and now ….because retrospective bellicose strategy is based on de-facto real-politik results… not liberating intent…. though the victors re-write history in their own service…..it takes two to fight….and both to lie…
btw ….complicity…..
Adolf ‘offered’ Britain and US to take all Jews before the final solution.. the Jewish American foreign secretary in Rooseveldts government was willing and leant on Churchill to accept….so the UK took the children in and refused their parents…..and the consequences…continue not for six years but for six generations….
…if a good person tells you we fight for the good to prevail, then what you do satya deva is…..punch em in the face ! (it usually shuts em up) and the good prevails !! thus avoiding large maps of the world and tall buildings in the conversation….
that way only you account for yourself… and link up with the same integrity in everyone else which affects all your power relationships, your emotive freedom, your integrity avoiding collusional identities …..and thereby using the legacy of all the millions who have suffered…… to thus enrich our expression with a belly of fire.. to counter militarist control freakery external fire….
thats rebellious spirit
thats Osho….
thats amore…..
cheers
m
Lokesh wrote “right now they (Brits) are fighting a phoney war against terrorism that is among other things a way of bringing stricter social controls upon her own population.”
I do not think there is a phoney war. Go to Press TV (Iran), or Shia TV, on the web, look at the comments, and you will see there are Muslim boys all over the world who hate the Brits and the Americans. Or you will see such attitudes on other Muslim sites. As you say the Brits enslaved half the world. I am inclined to think there is such a thing as “national karma.”
I take your point about “the West” and there being a global materialist civilisation now. But surely there remains a difference between the United States and India or Thailand.
Yes, I’m aware that there are Muslim boys who hate the Brits and the American’s, and so would you if your innocent family were killed by a bomb dropped from one of their war planes. The war in Iraq began because of Saddam Husseins weapons of mass destruction. It has now been swept under the political carpet that those weapons never existed. Yet US and UK troops still occupy Iraq. That is a phoney war. The allies will never win a war in Afghanistan so why don’t they simply get out. They promote the rise of terrorism by being there.
Of course there is national karma, why do you think so many Americans are dying of obeseity? Hamburger karma, of course.
“Don’t shoot” the bearded man said to the soldiers as he emerged from a hole in the ground. It was Saddam Hussein giving himself up without a shot being fired even though he was armed with a pistol. In contrast his 2 sons perished in a hail of bullets a few months earlier. Their father had chosen to survive even at the price of humiliation at the hands of his American captors.
The first images of the captured tyrant was that of a shaggy, haggard derelict undergoing a health check. An army doctor wearing rubber gloves was seen searching the hair for lice whilst prodding his mouth open with a tongue depressor for DNA identification.
In a world of Islam where pride and dignity were all important, shame was the outcome. The man who called himself the “Glorious Leader” and the “Direct Descendant of the Prophet” had become a prisoner. Preferring a life of shame to the death of martydom. His very essence: SURVIVAL.
All in all it reminds me of the saying, “If you look too deeply into the abyss,” { Nietzsche}, “the abyss will look into you.”
Probably withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan would not end the war. The war is about US access to cheap oil and long term support for Israel.
it is politically impossible for a US president to abandon these objectives.
Alok John, you are proably right.
and consciousness does not seek or abjure results…
thus .leaving you the whole planet to play in , whilst counting your lucky stars that you were born white and middle class…
if you cant choose the beginning…ie incarnation…. then you’ll just have to pretend to be in control of your own destiny….personally i blame the dinosaurs and the large amphibious fish that became bears and then humans (?)…. i mean really in terms of a grand plan its a bit of a dodgy planet …..
would anyone like to answer the above through the medium of … dance and free self expression ???
I have translated a couple of volumes of Geeta Darshan from Hindi to English as a personal interest. Well, if anyone is interested.
Two volumes are completed and I am working on another two volumes.
Osho’s hindi discourses are amazing. English ones are not even close
Do leave your note here and may be Sannyasnews.com team can forward those interests to me.
Prem Martyn:
…if a good person tells you we fight for the good to prevail, then what you do satya deva is…..punch em in the face ! (it usually shuts em up) and the good prevails !! thus avoiding large maps of the world and tall buildings in the conversation….
SD:
Assuming you yourself are “good” of course…
But anyway, just a bit impractical though, isn’t it? Suppose the “good person” is obviously bigger and stronger than you (even though you might have done a bit of ‘self-defence’ training!) – what would you suggest then? A glorious, self-sacrificing ‘martyrdom’ perhaps?!
Let’s bring it down to actual, believable circumstances:
What situation(s) are you referring to (ie forgetting neat little metaphors)?
Alok John:
Probably withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan would not end the war. The war is about US access to cheap oil and long term support for Israel.
it is politically impossible for a US president to abandon these objectives.
SD:
Spot on, Alok.
Which is why, in the ‘immortal’ (!) words of that bloke from ‘Dad’s Army’: “We’re doomed, I tell you, doomed!”
Prem Martyn’s “History lesson” well demonstrates that this man-made world is essentially both a madhouse and a shithouse.
Well worth remembering if/when we ever find ourselves being taken in by the latest thing we’re being sold by the powers-that-be.
Still, occasionally there are times when one really has very little choice, one of them being the last world war. Choosing the ‘lesser of two evils’, if you like.
In contrast to Vietnam, for example, which wasn’t worth a single drop of anyone’s blood.
I’m referring to ‘conscipt’ wars of course. When the ordinary citizen isn’t a soldier, like now, we treally have very little influence. Look at the impotence of the Iraq anti-war campaign, for example.
Yes, Krishnananda, I’d like to read your translated Hindi discourse. Thanks.
Re whether or not there’s a war going on now, my experience of young Bengali/English Muslims – ‘otherwise ‘moderate’, intelligent people with a sense of humour (shock/horror!) – is that they most definitely feel hatred towards Israel, ie towards Jews in general.
I’ve noticed this growing over the last year, with their casual, throwaway remarks about wishing all Jews dead etc.
These being what we’d call ‘good’ people, God only knows what the other end of the Muslim spectrum is up to….
satya deva…
i am of course referring to building a maginot line in my back garden complete with turrets and photos of osho….waiting for the inevitable attack….and if they are bigger than you get a step ladder…..then hit them…..and of course run…..
if you think i’m going to get any dafter with this conversationthen in utter daftness i shall refer you to watching that classic marx brothers anti war anarchist film.. Duck Soup…
i gotta go….. there’s a war on you know……
Krishnananda. Thanks for that. I attended hudreds of Hindi discourses and the only word I could understand was nirvana. I knew that somehow going to those discourses was worthwhile. Thanks to your post I now know my woman’s intuition served me well.
Prob not doomed, SD, but the whole Muslim world, about a quarter of the world’s population, thinks a major injustice has been done to the Palestinians.
And the USA/EU feels it must support Israel partially out of guilt for the Holocaust.
And several of these Muslim countries are coming up economically.
And there is a major major culture gap between USA/EU/Israel and the Muslim countries. Both sides think their way of life is the way life should be lived. Both sides consider the other primitive.
So who knows how this will pan out?
which makes one consider what possible redemption is there in life for when it all goes arse-shaped….
its not that you might start looking inwards upwards and backwards by any chance?
ps lokesh
i remember the hindi lectures as an all male curry armpits affair… mmmm nice…….
What, is this site being run by a bunch of fanatical christians or muslims? Holy wars, crusades, righteous killing, what the fuck? Talking about people at the ashram being stuck!!! I f you so called “sannyasins” were smart, you’d close this and other worthless web sites, and tear down or burn all ashrams, resorts, communes, centers, and whatever else has the prefix “Osho” in it’s name. Time to move on, get a life, unglue yourselves from Osho or rather what you “think” he’s about and discover the great mystery on your own. Too scared? Need a hand to hold? That’s just too fucking bad…. Who Loves You Baby!!!!
Brush up your malacious mind. Live and let others live, the way they want to live.
That’s a bit hypocritical of you, Chinmaya, you should read what you’ve posted and read it before you post…. A lot of hypocrisy on this site, writing about how fucked up others are, the ashram, the centers, other nonsannyasin people and institutions that don’t conform to Osho’s way or vision… Criticizing Osho’s past actions and motives, blah, blah, blah…. You people keep on posting your criticisms and when someone points that out to you, you slam that person for showing you the mirror!!! Tell you what, stop your so-called meditating and group therapies and communal living, it’s all a joke, all just some insane, tail chasing game you’re playing…. Almost as pathetic as a fanatical suicide bomber!!! Oh Yeah, BTW, India just convicted-after 25 years those, psycho Union Carbide execs, for the Bhopal, massacre, After 25 years,..I’m moving to India!!! You can get away with anything for the right price!!! Only 2 years those bastards got and they’re still out on bail pending appeal, that’ll take another 20 years, they’re all in their ’70′s and will probably die before they see jail!!! Some spiritual place that India, and I thought the Western countries were fucked up!!! Namaste ya all!!!
Good ol’ Bubbie, always good for a larf that boy!
i’d like to start some new socio-spiritual threads
‘ The day i had a satori buying baked beans’ ……
‘ Osho and me : Osho’s unpublished diary about his search for my vision.
The Alpha and the OmyGod….Why reluctant meditators are all Zenophobic…
The Joy of Nothing (Unpublished)
‘How do you feel.?…. usually with my hands’ ….Memoirs of an Asram bodyworker.
Transforming Jealousy through er uhmm er….through er nasal Yoga…Volumes 1-17
Ok, fine, dear Bubbie, if I become your disciple, what are your Ten Commandments, on the path of Meditation.
I am really enjoying these fascinating and varied viewpoints about the Mahabharat war.
By the way. who won in the end, or is it still going on?
I’ve put £ 5O on Arjuna not making it to the semi-finals through injury, though I reckon Spain have got a good chance with Krishna using the tried and tested ‘chariot 4 3 4 ‘ defence….(the goalie’s rubbish though, bloody passive meditator )
Kauravs and Pandavas; the cousins are everywhere, difficult is to find Krishna, within or without.
Without Krishna, These cousins are like Santa And Banta.
Santa And Banta decided to rob the new bank in the town because they realised security in this new bank is not very tight.
They break the lock in the middle of the night and enter the safe room of the bank.
They were taken by surprise as there was no cash but the little glasses of white colored drink in the cool room.
SO they thought, ” Fuck, atleast we can drink this cold Lassi with our heart^s content.
Next day they got shock of their life when they read in the newspaper, ” Thieves drink many test tubes of sperms in the newly opend Sperm Bank!
I heard Krishna has the blues.
Good very good Shantam…Yes we need Krishna…without Krishna…every body drinking sperm…even Amrito…ha,ha,ha…
Could anyone actually reading any of this in an Osho centre please write in, as I have lost my way and am in need of a confraternity of seekers who can uplift my soul.
But I’ll make do with some casual dating if the above is not available………
And you know.. if thats not available then I shall have to consider going to war owing to my repressed libido….
Mahabharata trucking company….’ Pillage from Village to Village’ Horn Please….
I still remember Osho’s “they should be punished”, discourse regarding Bhopal. I thought back then, “What happened to live and let live”? What gives Master? Why the sudden change in attitude? “Come ye, Yet come again”, from the Osho Neo-Sannyas Tarot card-1st edition 1983…. now
I think the same with Chinmaya’s statement above: “Live and let others live…” Care to comment Chinmaya? You people need to make up your minds which way to fly, oh i forgot you all are still chasing your tail!!!!
Dear Bubbie,
You are very popular in this thread.
If you need your first disciple, flash your Ten Commandments.
Love
When Krishna is not there, people create their own Krishnas.
i have heard, Jayesh(Krishna) instructed few memebers of His management team to go and see a Hindi movie. In this way they can understand the mind and heart of Indian people better.
So Dr. Amrito, Devendra and his latest catch from Ex. Soviet Block go to a multiplex for the night screening.
In the middle of the movie, the girl whisper to Devendra, ” I am feeling disturbed. The guy next to me is masturbating.”
Devendra nudges to Amrito(Krishna) for the advise.Amrito suggests,” it is very simple. She should focus on the picture with here and now watchfulness. Don’t bother about the activities of the others”
Devendra whispers the suggestion further.
But girl is not satisfied, ” even if i focus on the movie. i feel disturbed. The bastard is using my hand.”
When the “Good” man fights, it then becomes a holy war”.
Sometime the holy war can be avoided with the spirit of Sharing. The way five Pandvas shared the sensuous and sizzling Daropdi, the common wife.
In my opinion that action should be treated as a first experiment in Coalition Governance.
World is learning the art of it. But what to do when few in the ashram does not want to learn this, it seems they have joined the school of Hugo Chavez, the man who knows all about every thing.
Prem bubbie,
Why don’t you write an article with your thoughts, feelings and views. Let we see, how one of us is not chasing His tail.
I’m currently in the er..ping..zing… alllahakbar…ping takatakataka…zing…peace loving nation of Talebestan….and i’m ..ping zing vroommm….wondering about the good and that bad war stuff someone ….ping pingggg ..deth to al american pigs’ zinnnng ….sorry about that just some local uh ethnic uh disturbance…
… anyways ,uh, i took sannyas online via the pinggggg vraooooomm aaiieieieieieie……osho sannyas mala disciple store…..and i’m not sure if you can donate your vision to someone after you’ve kinda ..ziinnngggg….. gone..! …..I’d like to leave mine to corporal swami Mahabharata and thank him for …incoming incominggggggggg get down…opening me up to this good and bad fighting stuff……..
thanks
‘tenshun
yehaaaaaaaaaaaa
Sergeant Swami Doo-lally…
Front line
Nato-istan….
actually… i did some few years ago happen across a blogsite of some guy describing himself as having worked in the Asram gardens back in the eighties, and he was then blogging from a US military compound in Iraq…and i really cant remember his name….it was too brief a shock to comprehend !..
We have an old Saxon-Viking saying in the UK for people like this….May a bronze edged heavy bookset of the Mahabharata and The Complete Encyclopedia Brittanica fall from an aeroplane in a heavy wooden box onto your head ‘
: )
Mahabharat= distopian end to god dominated culture
You can start again any time you like, for this thing we call failure is not the falling down but the staying down.
here we go again
The ultmate encounter group
The late Baha Musa being “interrogated ” by the British Army.
If it is true we are still trying to rise out of the dung heap.
Sw Prem Martyn…. Funny enough I also know of an ex Ashram gardener who works in Iraq. He’s only there for the money and drives a truck for Haliburton. Incoming!
lokesh…
He obviously has a deep case of cultural (X)Zenophobia…
in a war and only in it for the money…..war and money…..mmmm thats such a surprising combination…..
well i suppose it goes with that great wise British military epithet.uttered regularly on telly.’ We ‘ve got a job to do at the end of the day ‘…
(i’m not sure if that’s a quote from ‘The soldiers guide to Hegelian semantics’ which they pack in with the field dressings).
Though in terms of jobs….the vast number of around 80 % of soldiers in the US and UK armies come from the lowest socio-economic classes ( see Noam Chomsky writings for more)… so i suppose everyone’s in it for the money .. blood money….
Recently I knew of a an ex marine in this greek commune giving therapy groups….I wont talk to such people (and I didn’t ) until and unless they give a full rendition/repentance of their idiotic/corrupt heart- mind to my satisfaction…not as effective as an IED but hey I’m a sannyassin cos i’m only in it for the
silence…..
: )
Once there was a wave of OSHO, people were leaving their jobs, carriers, ambitions to listen His calling to their inner voice,
In the world of spirituality it was a first of its kind world wide web.
His ashes were not even collected, that power struggle for domination started. People who were laughing and crying at His gestures started packing their baggages to go back to the same old rotten civilisation they left, naturally with a new “awareness”.
So what does it matter if some sannyasins join the military for money. People work in the insurrance industry or oil industry also for money.
Whether we like it or not, Miliatry is a reality of our time.
Those in the west cry against their military power, must imagine that for a week, there countreis have no military power left.
What will happen?
These white chickens will be eaten by Halal forces.
shantam…..u r an an agent provacateur……..
compromise is not part of passion…..
or love
…..next please
without a pure anarchist insight all sannyass behaviour is likely to become sexually psychologically degenerate.. power sex and violence being the festering ground of all your statist wars…etc
i really do recommend experiencing continuous free love before you seek to protect it with a gun…
yours in the spirit of sperm in the service of orgasms…and orgasms in the service of disappearance.. not assertion…..
see those calling themselves sannyassins really dont often have much in common….
so why bother…we’re all gonna die anyway eh shantam?
This is a golden sentence from you Martyn,
Compromise is not part of passion…
or love.
Whenever i listen Osho, this is almost everyday, the essence seems to be pointing towards this passion.
Add intelligence, awareness and compassion to make a distance between a Seeker and a Taliban.
Just the other day, in the early discourses, Osho was mentioning how the increase in Intelligence is directly proportion to the decrease in Violence and War.
Example sake, He was mentioning How Buddha And Mahavira´s presence released so much intelligence in the air that the country like India suddenly turned into Non violence and the negative consequence was that many Barbarian races with a small military conquered and enslaved the vast country, as in the conflict between lower and the higher, lower has more chance to win because of its aggressive nature.
Therefore Power is very important. Intelligent race must have it for its defence.
My soul is not at home in the west but i really appreciate its military power and the power of its women.
I have heard few insurance companies are offering Penis Insurance.
One sannyasin enquire the agent, ” Does it mean, you will offer the treatment and surgery cost of this thing.”?
“No Sir, once yours does not work. Insurance company will ensure free service to your wife.”
shantam your conclusion gives me the perfect reason to employ my bullshit detector…. and why collusional thinking is no replacement for a loud and clear….
Fuck You….
With Fuck you…
you are accepting one goal for
the agent provacateur.
And please elobrate further what do you mean by ,”why collusional thinking is no replacement for a loud and clear….”
i have searched the meaning of Collusional thinking, but does not bring in me the essence of this pharase.
So a little bit of English lesson..with examples from real life.
And i do love your life style based on vegan food and thinking. I have no porvocation for that. When someone in the west lives like a Brahmin, it deserves all the applause.
And yes…in the paragraph above, i have touched a politically incorrect nerve by showing my appreciation for the military power of the west. It does not mean the appreciaation for the commander in chiefs like of the catagory Blair and Bush and their wives and dogs.
fuck you is not a de facto sign of raw nerve…..
its a sign of whatever you want
to me its a sign of you’re a lazy twat
and i’m bored …
so i’m not going to even bother , when there’s no point.. i’ve posted enough to educate and sensitize you and others with….
but you dont want…
so thanks
neither do i….
so i wont be adding anymore to this thread now ,
cheers and i’m sure on a human level you dont mean what you say …. but you dont know that yet by your declarations….
and if you do then i withdraw from interacting.
cheers
m
“I’ve posted enough to educate and sensitize you and others with….
but you dont want…
so thanks
neither do i….
so i wont be adding anymore to this thread now.”
This i was afraid but not surprise.
The Good man´s pride, it is like the inbuilt in the DNA of the Indian Brahmin. These people don´t communicate, they simply teach, they are born with the right to EDucate others.
And if you offend them a little more, the curses, embargos, boycotts are the weapons.
That is why many times it is said, buchers radiate more humility than these Brahmins, the educators.
What so ever.. Martyn, you may not post on this thread. I hope soon another thread will be loaded and your punch, humour and wisdom will be here.
waiting
IN THE NAME OF CHANGE , SO MANY THINGS WENT WRONG IN LAST TEN YEARS IN 17 KOREGAON PARK……. CHANGE CAME , BUT LOTS OF OSHO LOVERS PAID VERY HEAVY PRICE FOR THAT.
MANAGEMENT IS SO BLIND AND HAVE TURN BACK TOWARDS OSHO SANNYASINS WHO ACTUALLY WORKED AND CREATED THE BUDHAFIELD.
ALL THAT HAPPENED IN THE NAME OF CHANGE. I HAVE QUESTION WHY SOME OF MANAGEMENT PEOPLE LIKE AMRITO , SADHANA AND DEVENDRA ARE NOT DOING FAVOR TO WHOLE HUMANITY BY CHANGING THEIR JOBS AND BY LEAVING 17 KOREGAON PARK . WHY THEY STICK TO SAME OLD JOB AND OLD PLACE AND TELLING OTHER AND GIVING LECTURES ABOUT CHANGE. I AM SICK OF THOSE BASTARDS IN MANAGEMENT . ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
Amano, i have paused the discourse at enips.com to share the roughly trasnlated meaning of His words spoken in 1977, seems so relevant.
This century has become the century of “TAMASHBEENS”(Spectators, viewers, onlookers, patrons, punters), May be somethig like grinning and watching but not getting involved.
Osho goes on explaining in the discourse further, how people in this century don´t play, they watch Professionals to play. You don´t love, you see actors pretending to love in the movie.”
“But in relation to PARMATMA, you cann´t remain spectator, you have to get involved. You have to search to be connected etc.”
In the context of the Ashram, manageers have a field day because the fellow travelers have allowed themselves to become only the patrons, the visiters; the way you visit Fitness centre, the way you go to Gym Or Sauna or to Resort.
I feel Watchers on the hills need to get involved. This involvement can be a next step in our own inner sharpening.
Just by doing meditations, Satsangs and listening Deva Primal kind of music, Sannyasins will also become like the vast majority of Indian housewives; The Graceful women!
May be KrishnaNanda, who has translated many of the Geeta Darshan discourses from Hindi to English can modify my feelings.
Osho´s 10-12 Bulky volumes on Krishna´s Geeta with around 200 discourses are incomparable to any thing in the Hindi spiritual literature. I don´t think there is a single Indian guru in the market, who has not read them again and again like a text book.
If i try to summarise these golden words of Osho in a sentence or two, it will be like-
MahaBharta is not just an epic, it is the LIFE itself. Every Generation, every being has to fight this war within and outside.
By going intensely into it, one comes across a Krishna, in the form of the Master or one´s own inner self. Escape is not the route, getting involved is the way.
In other words, if you wanna get out of it, you have to get into
IT.
This is a Nice Sutra from Ibiza,” If you wanna get out of it, you have to get into IT.”
shantam prem:
MahaBharta is not just an epic, it is the LIFE itself. Every Generation, every being has to fight this war within and outside.
By going intensely into it, one comes across a Krishna, in the form of the Master or one´s own inner self.
SD:
So, I was right about this, after all…(Oh, the unmatchable glory of being “right”!!)….
prem martyn:
well i suppose it goes with that great wise British military epithet.uttered regularly on telly.’ We ‘ve got a job to do at the end of the day ‘…
Though in terms of jobs….the vast number of around 80 % of soldiers in the US and UK armies come from the lowest socio-economic classes ( see Noam Chomsky writings for more)… so i suppose everyone’s in it for the money .. blood money….
Recently I knew of a an ex marine in this greek commune giving therapy groups….I wont talk to such people (and I didn’t ) until and unless they give a full rendition/repentance of their idiotic/corrupt heart- mind to my satisfaction…not as effective as an IED but hey I’m a sannyassin cos i’m only in it for the
silence…..
SD:
And have any “such people” ever ‘repented’ in order to have a conversation with you, Prem Martyn?!!
To earn such a privilege I’d imagine whole battalions might be queuing at your very door….
SD its my world…i avoid carnivores and militarists and enjoy the lack of hypocrisy whilst suntanning my arse in the company of anarchist vegan pussy
mmmmmm nice
Good Lord!
You’re not one of them, er, ‘rebels’, are you?
try you tube
‘break your heart ‘ : natalie merchant
thank you natalie !
Martyn, you are a lucky guy. Suntanning in the company of anarchist vegan Pussy.
Is she into one to one commitment or there is some scope for a party?
In that case, i wish to be invited.
SP
first repent..
then sing natalie merchant song
then like any party
bring something to share…..!!
but in this case its on a strictly first come basis…..
see i told you love is the answer….
its closer to sex than anything else i can think of….
Shantam Prem,
After having watched Maha Bharta by TV Channels, people have become more cunning and fighter with relations, neighbours, friends and public at outer level. Inside fight for their illicit and to search for Krishana in them is lost.
After watching TV with Maha Bharta people are more corrupt, mean and want to elope with more and more girls and wives of others and ladies too have changed their lifestyle to Daropadi style to have more men, than to continue enjoy intercourse from one.
One Night at Call Centre presents the true picture of Boys and Girls. Much is happening after Maha Bharta on negative strong footings than positive search for Krishna.
Okay, okay. but who won the holy war?
lokesh..
the women of Troy did….
who went on sex strike to stop the men warring
What is your take Lokesh, Who won the holy war than and who is winning the holy war now?
Islam is rising and the Christians are mobilizing, but ultimately the Hindus will win because Hinduism is far better at absorbing and integrationg other religions’ ideas into its own. Boom Shanker!
The burning question for me right now is will Scotland win the world cup football championship in South Africa?
Is Scotland a sovereign country to be able to part of the FIFA world cup?
Question of winning can arise in 2030; if after the queen the glue united the Kingdom melts away.
As far as first observation is concerned, i will differ a little. Hindus as a religion have learnt the art of survival in difficult circumstances and change the coat according to the times, but does not have even half the necessary qualites to be a winner.
On the other side, i have always the feeling that many of the sannyasins, they may be from any part of the west, have a strong past life connections with India and therefore many are born again Hindus, thinking grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
They may even feel enchanted by listening Mantras, and sitting at the feet of this or that Holy Indian but when they fall sick, it is the service of the Nunns in the Christian hospitals which increase their life span.
Western running the ashram are the examples of living Hinduism, Self contented frogs in an air conditioned well, thinking this is the Ocean.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/son-god-10894617
lokesh
yee’ll be burning a wee while…..
they’re not in it this time….
och the saints prese’ve ess…. have ye no go’ a telly tae keep yerseel up tae scratch?
Lokesh dear,
War is never a holy. Osho has made it very clear in his sermons. Maha Bharta is the most ugly war, not less than the devastation of 2nd World War with the ugly scenes of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, whose effects are still noticed through the genes of the generations.
In Maha Bharta, millions of people were killed, Millions became widows and millions became Orphans, Osho says, nobody takes the responsibility of the killing of such people with deep woes and the soil of battlefield is still red with blood oozed out of the millions of people, but for the sake of ego fulfilment of only a few – Pandavs Five plus Karun, Daryodhan, Dhritrashtra, Bheesham, and Shakuni and a few more. At the end, nobody ruled over the land, because population was least after killing. Then, where is the question of Who won the war. Yes, the stupid minds of idiots won the war, who come under Cr P.C Clause of 302, 307, 120, 420, 407 of IPC and many more, of Murder, Institigation by….., Determination to kill, Treacery, Cheating, Ill behavior to Ladies, like to see naked to Daropadi amongst public forcefully, creating Hoax, eliminating the originality of cities. Even Enlightened Master could not change the mind of Duryodhana to desist from fighting war. It seems, Duryodhan was equally enlightened, being devotee of Lord Shiva, he too worship Shiva under sea water.Now, pretext is quoted that, it was required to happen being the need of the ultimate. Hell with the need of Ultimate.
Only wearer knows, where the shoe pinches, All other can enjoy talking, whereas It was felt and known to the Orphans and widows, all others simply quote in congregations, for the sake of spread of some ego of the dead, and for making money, being the cost of throwing garbage with stories to others. They make patting but not take responsibility.
You say, who won the Holy War. In fact, this was a great defeat of both the parties, because of whom, the development of the Nation could not happen. Where was the throne, where was the populationh, what is left for daily routine and eatables. And do you think, they could live peacefully, they would have got a good sleep, for the left-over years of the life who were not killed, after killing and seeing the dead scenes of many people.
Thanks Chinmaya for your cheery Mahabaratic synopsis.
Scotland had a 7-0 victory over Rubovia last night in Jo’burg, therefore it is almost certain that they will go on to the next round.
I am so excited about this latest development I’ve completely given up the search for enlightenment. What a relief!
Those who missed the Live coverage of Mahabharta or two world wars on their satelite television, here is a news-
From The Times June 12, 2010
Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7148555.ece
If there is a Mouth somewhere, somewhere down the south, there will be Asshole too.
It is true for CReatures, REligions, ORganisations and for NAtions.
”’ …..a BBC correspondent in the city of Osh has heard heavy gunfire.
On Saturday the interim government gave security forces shoot-to-kill powers.
Kyrgyzstan’s interim government extended a state of emergency to cover the entire southern Jalalabad region, as ethnic clashes spread there from neighbouring Osh. ”…..
from bbc news kyrgistan16:36 GMT, Sunday, 13 June 2010 17:36 UK
This is really so strange, people who are in asharam long time (Some in management) are so insensitive, what has happent to thesae people, they are listening Osho, once in a while they go for meditaion…still…WHY…why they are so cruel…??? WHY??? this is so strange…few peole are in asharam sicne 1975 but still they can not leave asharm, but yes thye try there best to kicked out others…WHY?????
It seems to be their Love or attachment of Osho and Ashram. They want to get back, perhaps, to what they had done, by spending their youth. Others are not making appropriate efforts to take over, simply crying sitting outside.
It is their insecurity in old age of the body, may be from inside, they know Osho faaaar above others. They are not insenstive but senstive but this senstive-ness is to their ailing body.
Old age mind is very clever. They do not kick others to get out, but they create such a situation, by virtue of high entry fee, high cost of food/kitchen, which makes others to be off, from the scene themselves.
Oh God, please take care of them too.
There is a great need of hearing Osho, instead litening, there is a great difference between listening and hearing.
Large US/Israel fleet approaches Iran…
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=131181§ionid=351020205
Just nuke Iran’s mullahs when they meet in parliament , it will save millions of lives, especially israeli….. everyone’s nuts anyway!!!
I
Nice photos daily life in Iran…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fabdany/sets/72157603732604231/