Ramses Shaffy’s Humaniversity Experience

The Dutch Humaniversity from the Inside

Ramses Shaffy (1933-2009) was a well-known Dutch singer and actor. He participated in Veeresh programmes and worked with theatre and creativity at the Humaniversity in the 80′s and 90′s. Here is a letter, translated into English, that Ramses wrote about one of his Humaniversity experiences which Sannyasnews saw as revealing as well as insightful.

It’s crazy to sit here on the balcony while life thunders on in Grada with hammering hits, outbursts of crying , hurricanes of laughter, ingenious creations and attempts to run away, marathon, though the ‘official’ daily routine or the ‘normal’ way of life, is still a marathon, breathtaking, maddening, loving, collapsing, rebirthing, straining hard work with yells of “Speed it up! Speed it up!” In short, driving us crazy from six in the morning –dynamic – until three at night – disco in the Boozeria. There is little sleep, ‘do that when you’re old’. I work in the kitchen like I’m in a fast forward movie, peel potatoes hysterically, run like a possessed person from the basement to the attic. This all under the supervision of German ‘Ma’s’ who are worse than Prussian generals in the first world war. I get pull up’s every second one after the other. That means you get the full load and you can’t react, only say thank you.

The next moment I am appointed ‘head of cleaning’. Now I also have to scream “Speed it up!” to sweet, innocent people who are already doing dishes with frantic speed.

I can’t do this. I become very unhappy and exhausted. I hear a voice from another part of the kitchen calling me with a German accent, that I’m not making a sound, that she doesn’t hear anything. That day I wanted to leave. The next day I had to record a song with Liesbeth and I found it hard to go back. I was afraid.

And as things like this turn out, returning to Grada was just fantastic, with fabulous sessions with Veeresh, Fellini-like transvestite parties, dead chique staff dinners and sometimes happy nights of love. I play in every Satsang on my grand piano (there is also one here)with a magnificent flautist, Helmuth, and a very poetic guitarist, Sambodhi.

I have a new name ‘Yes, but…’, for one month, for the time of the Bodhidharma group. Having the name is very confusing, because it’s often used in normal conversation, so I jump up again as a nervous deer, as I think someone is calling me. Its one thousand volts here, meetings happen continuously, often totally crazy with strange therapeutic assignments. I walked around, for instance, for one week with a sign around my neck with the text ‘Yes, but”, and had to explain this name to whoever happened to ask me what it meant.

We had 2 marathons of 48 hours without sleep and practically without food, hard work and sessions, of which dynamic was the mildest. It is about not falling back for one moment, every now and then comes, believe it or not, a Beer Break and it is surprising to dance in the disco with a glass of white wine after these forty eight hours, having the feeling that you can continue through another night.

Samadhi is so beautiful I can’t explain. The whole staff by the way is very intelligent and centered. It’s all about love. Bhagwan is here and he loves us. Where this all leads to is a true mystery. Boy oh boy, what did I get myself into?

Yesterday I rehearsed the ‘Stad liedjes’ again. I am so grateful that I lived there.

Goodbye, see you soon, one way or another. Bye,
Ramses AKA ‘Yes but’

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85 Responses to Ramses Shaffy’s Humaniversity Experience

  1. Kartar says:

    Not surprisingly you get the full range of personality and situational factors at the Humaniversity while some participants are obvious psychological casualties. My heart goes out to all those who have been abused by “the cult of veeresh”. Pavlovian conditioning reins supreme at the Vereesh Humaniversity. Participants salivate at the sound of the bell – being conditioned, manipulated and conned. Shame on you Veeresh and the Humaniversity, your just another pseudo sannyasin operating under the umbrella of Osho, taking advantage of human suffering and filling up your bank account.

  2. Lokesh says:

    Well…Kartar does not have a very high opinion about Veeresh and his baby and it is not that difficult to understand, but I beg to disagree.

    Some years ago I ran into Meera, the Japanese painter, group leader. It was in Amsterdam on a sunny afternoon. I’d no idea that she was such a Catholic sannyasin.
    She asked after I’d introduced myself, ‘What centre do you belong to?’
    I pointed to the centre of my chest and replied, ‘This one.’
    Meera looked puzzled and went on to explain that she was running a group at the Humaniversity and seeing as how I was an artist why don’t I come and ‘jump in’.
    I smiled broadly and said that I was not interested in going to the Humaniversity.
    ‘Why?’ she asked.
    ‘Because,’ I replied, ‘that is where you go when there is nowhere else left to go.’

    I participated in one of Veeresh’s Aum Marathons in the mid-seventies. It was, as I recall, quite an intense experience and when the group was over I did something I’d never done before….I bought myself a packet of cigarettes to smoke. I’d been breathing secondary smoke all weekend in the group and developed a nicoteen craving.

    Both of these anecdotes say something aboit Veeresh and his therapy programme. Personally, I like Veeresh. He is a good man and his work, generally speaking, is of immense benefit to people who are in need of strong medicine.

    In the early days when Veeresh began to show up in Poona One, I used to wonder why Osho gave him so much attention. I’m sure he had his reasons. For instance, recognizing Veeresh’s potential as a leader. Apart from that I also concluded that Veeresh needed the old man’s attention because he’d been through a lot of tough experiences. You don’t become a hardcore heroin junkie because you are a happy player and Veeresh was once as hardcore as they come. The thing is, he got the monkey off his back and used his experience to create something of value on a social level.

    Yes, it is true that from time to time you hear of someone who has been torn up at the Humaniversity and sent back into the world in a mess. This happened to someone close to me, but they survived. On the other hand I sent someone to the Humaniversity not so long ago who was in a real mess and he came out a changed man. For the first time in his life he was able to give his friends a warm-hearted hug. Now surely that can’t be bad, can it?

  3. Kartar says:

    Thanks for disagreeing Lokesh. I can see your a smart person. Love reading about someones positive experiences at the Humaniversity. I wonder if there is anybody willing to come forward in this thread with some negative experiences. Seems someone always has a positive story and the negative ones just slide into oblivion.

    My pet peeve is that many Osho therapists are not qualified to dabble with vulnerable people’s lives without formal training or qualifications in conventional psychotherapy. Therapists all seem to promise enhanced self-awareness, improved relationships, and sexual healing; but as always – for a price. The Humaniversity IMV is just a therapy supermarket, the idea that you can purchase a “peak” here and a “high” there, a ‘hug” here and a “grope” there, and go psychotherapeutic – shopping for prepackaged experiences makes me laugh.

  4. Lokesh says:

    Yes, Kartar, I know what you mean. It is just that there are many ways to view things. I’m reminded of the story about a group of blind people who are asked to give their personal descriptions of an elephant. Each description varied greatly from everyone else’s. Such is life.

  5. shantam prem says:

    Kartar, you have written a very strong worded statement,” Shame on you Veeresh and the Humaniversity, your just another pseudo sannyasin operating under the umbrella of Osho, taking advantage of human suffering and filling up your bank account.”

    Can you tell few names in te world of Osho and also new age spiritual movement who chalked their way to the leadership position and are not blamed as Pseudo sannyasins, Pseudo gurus etc.

    People have money, they have time and somewhere the emotional wounds and few people provide them service by creating the market through glosy advertisement, rest is destiny. It is like few women become happy with their new transplantaions and few complain about the leaking silicon.

    If you are not one of the two catagories, you have no right to pass strong worded judgement.

    Yesrterday, i went for few hours to see the Rainbow spirit festival at Baden Baden, one of the biggest in Germany.
    On the way back home i remembered the sentence, ” As in Shampoos and toothpaste, hardly one percent is the substance, nine times water and the rest is advertisement.
    Will this stop me from buying shampoo or the toothpaste?

  6. Kartar says:

    Shantam Prem if you end up a slave to a money-making power-seeking organization that couldn’t care either way to the real difficulties you may experience as a result of certain practices, that is a bad use of those powerful practices.

  7. Amano says:

    Ramsay sharry, why it took long time for you understand what is going on in humanversity.. how you feeling now being away from there ……..

  8. shantam prem says:

    ” if you end up a slave to a money-making power-seeking organization that couldn’t care either way to the real difficulties you may experience as a result of certain practices, that is a bad use of those powerful practices.”
    Kartar, it is a beautiful paragraph and i am sure millions of people have quoted this in connection with the main stream sannyas and for Osho, and still can be used for the thing called Resort.

    Nobody has put the gun on our heads to be with Osho, and same is about Veeresh or others in the masrket.
    Yesterday, i have seen nice looking western women radiating a satisfying Aura while distributing the material of some new Indian guru, Sri Vats or few doing this kind of thing for Late Kalandi and her lady.
    I find this all very childish but than many of us were doing the same thing for Osho…

    My point is people choose their paths and pay for this.
    Have you not noticed, the best plastic surgeons are not more than average beautiful.
    and i am looking forward to read one day about some girl who writes about her expereince how she does not have to pay for her boobs job as the she is the daughter or wife of some plastic surgeon.

  9. Kartar says:

    I respect your honesty Shantam Prem. The words I write here on Sannyasnews are my truth, views, projections or whatever anyone wishes to call them. It is up to each individual sannyasin to see things with clarity for themselves. As Osho says we are all unique individuals – a burning light unto ourselves.

    Two words which are most important to me are honesty and respect. The opposite of words of these concepts are dishonesty and disrespect, have led to difficult times for some sannyasins. The very few numbers of sannyasins whose motivations are money aand power are a danger to themselves and to the people they come in contact with. Veeresh is fair game as far as I’m concerned.

    I’ve lived my life so that the world can be a better place. And if you are in doubt about what makes the world better, then start by doing something to reduce the vast sea of pointless pain and suffering.

  10. shantam prem says:

    Personally i have no experience with Veeresh and his humanversity, though i go through their ads. in German Osho Times and other esoteric media. At the insistance of some friend, i did once an hour of his meditation and droped the friendship afterwards, similarly in 1993, at Osho festival in Köln, i was watching from the distance how he was leading more than thousand people in social meditation before the big church.

    i don´t know how much is the truth but the way i have heard during the years is that sex being used more often as part of the campus training. This USP has attracted lots of lonely hearts.
    The way i see from the paid sex rates in Germany, it cost more than 100 euro for an hour.
    Mathematically, it is not a bad deal to have consensus sex in the name of therapy and Tantra.
    What are the consequences for this short term gains on the long term emotional health is a matter of scientific study.
    Still…it is the people´s choice and specially the women, who take part into emotionless sex.
    it looks like market of such theapies is going a steep decline and may be this is the reason, Satsang market is booming. Atleast this kind of Purified water bottled by some brand has no side effects.

  11. Satya Deva says:

    I have very little personal experience of Veeresh, in fact it’s limited to having participated in an ongoing weekly group in London, about 2 years before he took sannyas, plus directing him towards the Poona ashram after he’d arrived in Poona in ’74. “Where’s the ashram, man?” he almost growled, showing no sign of recognition.

    It wasn’t a happy experience for me in his group, as, new to that scene among a bunch of his former therapeutic community inmates who already ‘knew the ropes’ and ‘spoke the lingo’, I was very much a fish out of water, despite being ‘a suitable case for treatment’, in the 4th year of a debilitating clinical depression.

    He clearly didn’t like me, I must have represented something he felt an aversion to, describing me as “closed” (‘oh, really?’, I thought) and that I was “one of the people Wilhelm Reich wrote about”, ie chronically uptight, repressed etc. (which was why I was seeking help in his group of course!).

    I felt his antagonism as he angrily sneered those words and I did not warm to him at all, his attitude in fact only tended to increase my sense of ‘failure’ and already low self-esteem.

    Anyway, that was then and we’ve no doubt both moved on.
    I’ve no doubt he’s an extraordinary man who has helped many and after all, Osho called him “my topmost therapist”.

    Which is surely worth considering when looking at him and his work.

  12. shantam prem says:

    Satya Deva,
    As i have seen, many of us have learnt the art of looking at things, the way they are. Wihtout much judgement or personal beliefs.
    Your post above is like this.
    It defeniately shows how far you have traveled after the early seventies period of depression and low self esteem.
    Few people are born to be leaders in their specefic fields. Veeresh is one of them.
    On the other side, people who are running the main organisation have taken the leadership role because of situations and circumstances.
    and one can see very clearily, people who got the cake readymade are using the knife too with shaking hands.
    The iron strong grip shows the lacks of skills.

  13. Lokesh says:

    Amano, you enquire…..Ramsay sharry, why it took long time for you understand what is going on in humanversity.. how you feeling now being away from there ……..

    Going by this….Ramses Shaffy (1933-2009)
    I’d say disembodied.

  14. Two words about the person I met in puna as well as in berlin in the late 80´s in the *Far out cafe!
    Firstly about His integrity as a person and as an OSho Therapist:-
    He anand Veeresh is the finest therapist that Osho left Us with and that is not only about Him but many sannyassins that practice meditation and at sametime explore what Osho have taught!
    HIs meditation style is what Osho left Us with and many therapisyts around the world would serve Osho better if They(We!)payed more attention to the therapy styles that He,Veeresh enovates and teaches!
    At moment we are dealing with many in its “psycho- stages” and He Veeresh has come with technics that realy has been Osho´s blessings to humanity!
    Please dont take my word for it but rather try some of His Om meditation to take out those feelings of mistrust and resentment that are making our lives ugly!
    I´m inviting Veeresh to come and sit at the *”banion tree in our blessed”Bodhy Tree,ashram situated at arambol by the jungle side!”*Please bring moskito net as the(sisters )are a great newsence at first”!
    Once one have entered the jungle be sure that the Lord has His samuris guardians at Hand and no one leaves empty hand!
    Besides we have a”*brand new fairy(!)on the scene and She,the Devine devinity the *Fairysaint takes care of all *male-nature and the *femenyn-nature ,with all its power plants!
    Firstly we must follow our *sisters that are part of this habitat,and form a *single file for the *male-nature whilst the femenyn-nature preforms Her Tanju,table phantasya or pole dance until we´re ready for the devine´s sky Ballet!
    Please try this and see how we´re doing with “Psychosis and all the psychological nature implant!
    Please don´t forget to check out the voices that are couvering the soundless sound!
    Best wishes,
    Osho is our love,
    until than,
    amritlind and crew*

  15. Alok john says:

    I am afraid I rather agree with Kartar with respect to the Humaniversity.

    A few stories….

    1. Osho Leela is more or less the UK branch of the Humaniversity. About ten years ago they tried to make a little money by selling “share certificates.” If you bought one you would own a “share” of Leela and the implication was you would have a little control over the decision making. The certificates looked dodgy to me and a quick check at Companies House confirmed this. Unless the certificates were obviously “play certificates”, which they were not, selling them was a crime. My friend B bought one of these certificates.

    Roundabout the same time Leela had a fund raising event in London, run by Dhyano. At a disco people were encouraged to pledge donations publicly which would later be collected. People would pledge £10 or £20, say, on a podium and there would be lots of clapping. Then my friend L pledged a ridiculous amount of money, several hundred pounds or more. Now L was under the care of a psychiatrist with major depression and bipolar disorder, one symptom of which is excessive spending. My friend B told Dhyano of L’s psychiatric conditions and asked him not to collect the pledge.
    A week or two later Dhyano along with the late Pragit visited L at her little London flat and got the money off her. This is compassion??
    A few days later L’s parents travelled down to Leela and managed to retrieve the money. Just guessing now, but B was L’s friend, so maybe the parents used the certificate as leverage to retrieve the money— “If you don’t pay the money back we will take this certificate to the police.”

    2. Two Jewish boys I met in a local cafe told me of their trip to the Humaniversity, Holland. They were on some course for newcomers. Now the Humaniversity is very authoritarian and if you start asking questions they label you “Someone who has trouble with authority.” If you ask too many questions they chuck you out, no money back I am sure. These boys, actually about 30, to their credit, asked too many questions. In the early hours, 2 or 3 am, they were asked to leave. They asked if they could sit in the coffee bar until about 6am, when the buses started running. They were told, No, they must leave immediately.
    This is compassion?? Shows how scared Humaniversity is of dissenters.

    Things have mellowed a bit now and I guess the Dhyano/L incident would not happen these days. But the people who run the London side of the Humaniversity, although friendly, remain quite bossy and authoritarian, and act as if they know what is good for everyone and as if they know the meaning of life.

    Bit more speculation on my part, but I have often thought Veeresh had the capacity to be a mafiosi boss or an international drugs baron. Such an intelligent manipulative guy.
    So maybe that is why Osho poored so much bliss on to him, seeing he had capacity for great evil, and needing lots of energy to be transformed. So instead of turning to crime, Veeresh ended up selling dubious but relatively harmless “psychotherapy.”
    I guess it is significant that Veeresh created the “AUM social meditation” about a year after Osho’s death–he had to wait for the old boy to pass away before he could get into his stride.

  16. dharmen says:

    Jesus, Alok! what a one sided viewpoint!

  17. Sw prem martyn says:

    Aha.. Hello everyone….

    My opinion based on living in the eighties for a year with psycho Nirmala…. centre (ha) leader of London HQ of the Insaniversity.and the random visits of all the Dutch Kapo’s

    I blame Osho… and i’m sure he wont mind that. :)

    Its not that there’s anything wrong with screaming your tits off .In fact voluble passion is a wonderful thing but they dont do soul food at the insaniversity…its not warm or rhythmical or tender or human….its for people who never received or gave intelligent love….its a working class phenomena and comes from the ghetto…..

    take that as a judgement ….
    and….
    Its also a great antidote to the aspirational bourgeois bollox of the great numbers of identikit middle class sannyassins who found explosive interactions just so coarse and unmanipulatable….(is that a word??)

    The thing to remember here is that any pavlovian response in Egmond or Poona is just that…. an exploitation of youth , disfunctionality and a desperate need to be loved and to have as much free love/sex as possible….but that was then….the post sixties seventies free love sex stuff was how you built communes….nowadays young British kids ‘make out ‘ regularly with ease and no therapy ….and im glad we moved things on for them with sex drugs and rock and roll as a mass consumption libidinous society across the classes….

    But there is not a safety mechanism in life… once you have an experience and have given your time under whatever pretext or imagined advantage, then you have to move on…….if you dont …you risk becoming as ugly as those who would have you belong…..whether its money power sex or spirituality you crave…

    and duress and complicity was Osho’s game of hide and seek…..you wouldnt find you unless you tested it under all circumstances….

    gurdjieff drove his car into a tree in france in the 1940′s to see which level body he was in once his physical body was all smashed up….

    the least we can do then to honour our loving lunatic gurus is to experience conscious abuse in memory of our lovely nutcase guru osho….’dont be safe …just be sorry’ :)

    personally speaking ….if you dont get a good laugh out of it its not worth doing… whatever the promise offered…

    ahhh memories… distorted abused pointless time wasting memories….but hey at least we had food on the table ….really this stuff had no intrinsic renovating or strategic value..it was just a bit of nonsense and still is…but if you didnt do it then dont judge it because that also doesnt count…..thats just a pontification (thats a real word) from scaredy cats who couldnt take the pace …..and ive known a few of them too…

    Final advice: avoid the whole veereshy leela humaniversity nonsense..

    .cheers..

  18. Alok john says:

    What is your opinion of the Humaniversity, Dharmen?

  19. Alok john says:

    Isn’t the reality a lot of people are a bit scared of Veeresh and the Humaniversity, so to be on the safe side, prefer to be quiet?

  20. Satya Deva says:

    Why should they be scared though, Alok?!

    You wouldn’t be referring to any sort of, er, ‘emotional fascism’, by any chance, would you?

  21. shantam prem says:

    Call it Veeresh Or the new guy Rajneesh; Few will follow their command, many will pass the judgements.
    Whether one likes to listen or not, these people have created their own “Church”, did not got it readymade.

    Only thing i wish is that Holland, UK or Germany(India is too far awy in these matters), can adopt those laws, where participants can sue the leaders in case of some abuse.
    I was thinking the other day, that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was really a seer, that he could leave USA and shift His base to Holland, quite a liberal country, otherwise few were going to sue Him for this and that reason.

    People in the psycho spiritual branch must also subject themselves to the accounabilty. In this context, it will be interesting to see the judgement in Mohan Singh case in UK.

  22. Sw prem martyn says:

    hey shantam hi….

    i hope that michael lyons/.mohan singh character gets treatment and or a long time alone to meditate at her Majesty’s Pleasure in a nut house.He was very very very very ill man.

  23. shantam prem says:

    With all the due respect to the people who are working for the betterment of life and selling lighters”-not to lit the Camel but enhancing the inner light, the story below about Michael Lyons is an interesting one for the psyhological profile of the leaders and the people who follow them.
    I had the opportunity to know this man during his visit to Pune in 1992-1993 with his three female followers, life brought me a bit closer to one of his girls.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264731/Cult-leader-Michael-Lyons-rapist-claimed-Dalai-Lama-disciple.html

  24. dharmen says:

    Not been there Alok! Not my cup of tea, but Humaniversity has endured longer than most and it would be my guess that that’s because enough friendship and love come from its processes that more people are helped than are not.

  25. Lokesh says:

    Good point Dharmen. Alok’s stories about Humaniversity are not exactly earth-shaking and will not even put a scratch in the Humaniversity and Big Chief Veeresh’s reputatations for exactly the reasons you mention. The majority of people who go through the Humaniversity process are helped by it.

  26. Lokesh says:

    SP I checked the Michael Lyons story. It simply makes me wonder how all those women could be conned when the man himself claimed to have an organic penis. Everyone knows those things are dangerous.

  27. Sadhu says:

    in out site world how people are making money, this can be forgiven, but living in Osho Resort, Pune and using this place to make personal money…can not be forgiven and Devendra is big name who is making money…I dont think any one else is using this place as personal property than this guy…around the year…he catch people and tried to get his group..where ever is possible…

  28. Kartar says:

    Maybe my standpoint irritates some – especially self-righteous, self anointed therapy gulag masters ( and their entourage). You probably already know intimidation runs through every organization and business. Veeresh’s Humaniversity is no different.

    Also I feel for all the lovers who have had to endure the onlslaughts of distortion and truth-twisting at Humaniversity and the Pune Resort. Do they stand up for themselves no, they stick their heads in the sand like a good little Ostrich. Frightened to get into their own power. Like most people who have any problem they run away at the first sign of intimidation avoiding anything confrontational.

    It’s also so unfortunate that many tend to live in a world of make – believe, refusing to see the unforgiving realities of life – no matter how great the evidence to support such realities may be.

  29. Lokesh says:

    Kartar, you say, You probably already know intimidation runs through every organization and business.

    That is not my experience.

    Then you go on to say….It’s also so unfortunate that many tend to live in a world of make – believe

    I have to agree.

  30. Kartar says:

    Nice twist of words Lokesh – Good for you!

  31. shantam prem says:

    Has not it been mentioned in the spiritual talks, how the seeker´s journey is full of treacherous trails. Sounds quite romantic when we listen, voyage into an uncharted sea, may be it means also one has to pass through the organisational intimidation kind of things and, “self-righteous, self anointed therapy gulag masters
    ( and their entourage).”
    Still i will say it is much better a way than counting and paying for the kicks and hand bags of Beckham due and panties of some lady Gaga!

  32. Lokesh says:

    Good for you too, Kartar. Your response provoked a chuckle.

  33. Kartar says:

    Lokesh I wouldn’t try to put anything past you. How could I? You’d be on me in a second.”

  34. shantam prem says:

    i have spend much of my life at Pune Ashram, presently known as Osho Domestic Airport.
    As long as the system was run as a collective responsibility, it has much of the WOW atmoshphare and energy, so a bit of stinging nettle(Brennnesel) on the way was not bad, specially when so much liberty was possible some framework was also needed.
    Being a religious minded Indian, who was always interested in places of spiritual and carnal delights; still i will be able to put all my energy and resources for a place like Pune Ashram, as it was developed by Osho´s vision and His people´s love and involvement.

    That is the place, where one was getting the feeling of meeting people of one´s own tribe.
    The other day, i have read a poem in Germany, its English Google version i submit in the next post.
    when i read this, it was Osho and my fellow sannyasins.

  35. Alok john says:

    Lokesh said “The majority of people who go through the Humaniversity process are helped by it.” Dharmen said something similar.

    We don’t actually know this. No research has been done. As you know the Humaniversity’s advertising, sales and promotion are excellent. They have big turnovers of people, both at Leela and at Egmond. Who knows what proportion of these are “helped?” I suspect many do one or two groups and do not come back, feeling mildly exploited and not “helped.”

  36. Kartar says:

    Yeah right Shantam Prem my suggestion is to drop the idea of spiritual guidance, because that person will guide you according to their ideology. That’s what all the spiritual teachers today are doing imposing their ideas to people seeking guidance. This is one of the most dangerous games to be aware of because you will always come out second best. Your spiritual growth is yours alone. You have to live according to your light and not anybody else’s guidance.

  37. shantam prem says:

    I am looking for my tribe,
    the people of my tribe are easy to spot:
    They walk upright, have spark in the eyes
    and a smile on the lips. 
 


    They are neither holy nor enlightened.
    They have gone through their own hell
    have looked at their shadows and demons,
    adopted and disclosed. 
 


    They are no longer children,
    know very well what has been done to them,
    have their shame and rage explode
    and then passed the past,
    the umbilical cord cut off, and expressed the pardon. 
 


    Because they want to hide nothing, they are clear and open.
    Because they do not have to displace, they are full of energy,
    Curiosity and enthusiasm. 
 


    The fire is burning in thier belly! 
 


    The people of my tribe to know the wild man
    and the wild woman in you and not be afraid.
    They hold nothing for granted and, of course,
    Check to make their own experiences and
    follow their own intuition. 
 


    Men and women of my tribe meet
    at the same level, respect and appreciate their “different” being,
    confront without malice, and love without reserve. 
 


    People of my tribe often go inside to collect,
    in touch with your roots, find themselves,
    if they have lost through the noise of life. 
 


    And then they turn you back to their tribe, because they may
    communicate and share, give and take, give and be blessed. 
 

    They live warmth, security and intimacy. 
 


    Separately, they do not feel lost like little children
    and can easily handle it. 
 


    However, they suffer in isolation and longing
    sisters for their brothers and soul. 
 


    The time has come to our meeting. 
 


    I call on my master! 
 


    … 
 


    (Author Unknown)

  38. Anand says:

    It does not really matter what people think and say here about Veeresh. Veeresh did something and he is doing something, every day transforming people.
    It does not matter if we like that or we like him. He spent the last decades creating something.
    Osho always loved Veeresh and give the guy some credit. he is one of the few Osho sannyasins creating something on this planet.

    Let’s measure ourselves on this.

  39. Lokesh says:

    Oddly enough, I’ve never heard or seen any advertising for the Humaniversity. The thing is, I’ve talked to dozens of people who had something positive to say about the place and a handful that did not.

    And for Kartar a wee quote first…..Each person’s life path and journey is comprised of where they have been, what they have experienced, and what their internal belief system is. Each life experience, whether good or bad by your own definition, adds to your own spiritual growth. Each experience, even the most traumatic (and especially the most traumatic), changes who we are. When you help another person to heal, you are in essence, helping yourself to heal as well. As you teach ,you also become the student. As an individual, you will experience your own self-healing and spiritual growth patterns that will take you down life’s learning path. The end destination isn’t as important as the actual learning experience is.

    Okay, not a bad foundation. I don’t go for all this hoo haa about ‘dangerous’ spiritual games. I’ve met a few ‘false’ gurus in my time and on reflection I must admit they also taught me something, even if it was simply to confront the question….’How on earth could you allow yourself to be conned by someone like that?’
    i’d say if we need a headline for the times we live in perhaps a good one to adopt would be ‘The Age of Responsibility’. We weaken our spirit by placing responsibility on others to guide us. In my opinion the Lord Buddha left us a wonderful message before he left this world. ‘Be a light unto yourself.’

  40. Amano says:

    Anand, you are right 100 percent.
    veeresh is fair guy ,he is creative, has courage . he never pretends to be holly . he is all for love and unity and bring people closer to each other and he does not believe in east and west non sence. he got the vision from osho and he lives that vision.
    as far as humaniversity is concerned , i do not know much about place, i was there only twice for a visit . but i heard from friends of mine who worked there that it is nice place, of course not a perfect place , but much better place and much better surroundings and very playful institute which is very hard to find these days . i was visiting uta center in koln and premal center long ago , i saw so much politics between new comer and senior citizens of center .
    humanversity may have its dark side , but i would not comment on those untill i find out myself in my next visit there…..

    veeresh was in pune many times in last ten years. i would like him to speak against amirto and jayesh as he used to in early 90 . veeresh has to develop those quality of talking turth and not accepting rules given to him while he visit 17 koregaon………
    turst me he is true rebel and have done something which we should all appriciate and thank him for being part of this osho family

  41. Sw prem martyn says:

    …the Lord Buddha also said…..i’m not your lord i’m not even a buddha now feck-off and leave me alone…..something which the insaniversity does not allow…..you can scream feck-off for a long time but they never actually go away.they even bother you by saying its good for you…..not only that but you pay them… they never ever pay you… now i call that…. Business….with all the maintenance of a shrewd supply and demand…

    .oh and no i dont have to approve of him becos Osho did… i dont do deference by way of ‘my Guru likes cheese….therefore i like it…’

    veeresh makes people clear up their mess…..and then makes them make some more…Pure theatre….and in the end there is about as much sense of honest streaming sensuous trusting conviviality as in a bus queue…….less actually because i feel more trusting in a bus queue….

    i know… i’ve been there ….and prefer listening to Van Morrison if i want feel uplifted…wish i had known that then…..

    How do you define then that they are time wasting routines…wel by the simple measure of..irony …

    there is zero irony in the insaniversity… especially the self effacing type..now if you’re enlightened thats understandable because there’s no-one home… but if you have an ego and never let it off the leash but demand that others do then there is something wrong…

    zero irony makes for zero approachability and that runs right through therapy… and at the risk of repeating myself .it was oshos playful approachability that distinguished his love not his piousness….the best i got out of it all was to enjoy my ‘get stuffed’ laughter not to ‘get’ therapy

    and spirituality is a minefield which luckily veeresh never addresses head on…so thats a huge plus really .. you are unlikely to be given a hierarchy of reverential behaviour….a la poona….

    veeresh is not a nasty guy at all….dont get me wrong … but he wont sit at table with you and be anything but important and venerable….and i dont do that kind of atmosphere anymore….not even if its worthy…

    last time he was at leela they through rose petals on his car….oh please …grow up….

  42. Sw prem martyn says:

    threw

  43. Lokesh says:

    Martyn, you say: but he wont sit at table with you and be anything but important and venerable

    Last time I sat at a table with Veeresh he was one of the boys and a really cool one at that. A pleasure to be around, I’d say. Quite humble, peaceful, friendly and humourous. Maybe we are all talking about different Veereshes. Perhaps those Veeresh clone rumours are true afterall.

  44. Sw prem martyn says:

    i must be looking through rose petal coloured spectacles…

    anyway veeresh is fine, and its all memory from me… you probably met him more recently so i stand corrected…or in humaniversity speak….
    ‘ fuck the shit bollox shit bastard fuck bollox ass mother fucker baby face, sorry i fucked up.’

    :)

  45. shantam prem says:

    Good discussion about Veeresh from all the angels.
    It is a time for the members at sannyasnews to ballot their vote in favour or opposition and this will decide whether the community here finds Veeresh eligible for the first-
    Osho Sannyasnews Life Time Achievement Award!

  46. Lokesh says:

    Okay, SP, I say give the award to Veeresh, he’s getting on in years and to be given such an award will bring much prestige to his family in the Dominican Republic.

  47. Sw prem martyn says:

    maybe the statuette award can be of someone ‘ shitting or getting off the pot’ …the classic Humaniversity insult …

    Paying people to scream at you…. the guy is a business genius…..

    How about a coin operated statuette that fucks ..through the night with several partners?

  48. Lokesh says:

    Prem Martin, you say—-Paying people to scream at you…. the guy is a business genius…..

    I find that funny. More please.

  49. Sw prem martyn says:

    i’m happy to oblige lokesh ……you know that it is the spirit that talks through me..and.. i’m just allowing ….the insults…..to come through…..
    its the path of the mist’ake…..who on the bonfire of vanities ,like Guy Fawkes, is alight unto himself providing fun and joy to others whilst extinguishing himself.

    now then everyone sing that famous miten and premal hit song…
    turalularula li trali la li la lo lala om om om ..tra la la la the wheels on the bus go round and round all day long…

  50. Kartar says:

    And for Kartar a wee quote first….thanks for the quote Lokesh spot on. I think that there are very wonderful and beautiful Osho sannyasins out there – many are friends – many are very gifted people especially the one’s here on sannyasnews. I don’t think we can deny the fact that there are also many sannyasin scammers out there ( please don’t get me started ), and we can’t deny that there are people who actually care about others and want to help them. I’ve enjoyed this topic thanks everyone.

  51. Satya Deva says:

    Paying people to scream at you…

    Hold on – didn’t he lift that one from Monty Python, you know ‘Rent an Argument’?!!

    And Martyn:

    i’m happy to oblige lokesh ……you know that it is the spirit that talks through me..and.. i’m just allowing ….the insults…..to come through…..
    its the path of the mist’ake…..who on the bonfire of vanities ,like Guy Fawkes, is alight unto himself providing fun and joy to others whilst extinguishing himself.

    That’s a quality little paragraph too – congrats!!

  52. Lokesh says:

    I’m sorry Veeresh, it looks like the Osho Sannyasnews Life Time Achievement Award is going to…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….yes, you’ve guessed…………………..Sw Prem Martin…………………….a big round of applause please.

  53. shantam prem says:

    There is an element of surprise in the breaking news.
    Congratulations Prem Martyn for this highly prestigious award!

  54. Sw prem martyn says:

    Well Guys and Gals..

    Thank you so much .. for this (sniff ) award (gulp).. er it means a lot to me ….I’d like to thank first of all everyone at Sunrise News for Just Being….so (sniff) really Amazing..and to everyone who contributes here on the Interwebnetbook thing I know what a tremendous effort you all put in to reaching those mindless spaces and places .. (erm..uhh No-Mind places) that mean so much to all of us here…Amazing so really really…. just you know Amazing..even beyond amazing to the simply numbingly mundane.. the amazingly mundane ….

    . I’d particularly like to thank Shantam , Lokesh …Satya Deva and the other readers of this blog who are numberless..and just like the universe’s anti matter theory , only glimpsed , yet we know they exist…..somewhere…

    and finally i must say a big thank you to all the great production crew who make my appalling insults and general bad taste so financially unrewarding .. to them a great big thank you.

    Thank you So much ….sincerely…. there is no greater reward than this …..especially the large donation you have all made via the click and pay button to my favourite self-help charity…..the Trust for Nervous Individuals…

    …..geeeeeee yu guys.awwwww…..

  55. Lokesh says:

    I am deeply touched by dear Sw Prem Martyn’s spontaneous response upon receiving the world’s most prestigious award.
    I am so…so…happy….sniff….sniff. We are all one.

  56. Anand says:

    so now that we have analyzed Humaniversity, what about the cult settings of
    ‘The Path of Love’. Anyone?

  57. Lokesh says:

    The path of love is strewn with thorns, yet in places the views are marvellous.

  58. Yes,as for me I find that sometimes “guidance” is what “*I” need as the *fairysaint is available but unfortunatly that is not my case!Due to various commitments I find myself humanly speaking unavailable and hence my crises *Now again!*
    Fairysaint *Lead Us*!
    Take my “libido´s encarcerations” be whatever level they find themselves within Us and lead Us to that *inner river that runs within Us all, in the direction of *great mother,or to the ocean of consciousness!
    In you the *fairysaint we have a guide,or shall we call you a “*bodhichitta of compassion”that beyond the *nature-nature and its confiments,imprisonments or bondages be whatever kind!
    “Lets this be our prayers that in sending You,Devine devinity the beloved, *Our Lord in the sky´s above must have taken into care of our psychological needs and you being the *femenyn principle that Osho laid out for Us His children, and being still lost in the *fog when it arises*Jungle when we find ourselves within,with all its nervous breakdown*Forests when we are looking for new game for hunt and comeback in desapointment *With all the passions that are often times runing unchecked,that only you beloved can know!!!
    *Yes we can!
    “Walk in a single file whenever you ask Us to,which is moment to moment,and your grace will follow Us till the end of our eartly lives!
    To the *femenyn-nature,you have given them your sensitive nature to leads Us to our deeper selves,and show us with your gifts to all the *geneoces of your creative mind to a state of *No-mind!*”NoTots”

    Please don´t forget to bring *moskitos netings,as usual´until our *inner bodys* have evolved enough anti- moskito bodies!
    Osho is our love until then,
    amritlind & crew*

  59. Alok john says:

    Anand, Re : Path of love….

    You could try the anti-guru sites

    http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/

    and

    http://www.rickross.com/

    and see what they have got.

    The rickross site has an interesting discussion about someone who had a bad experience at the Humaniversity, Egmond. Of course the story might be fabricated by Rick Ross, and then again, it might not.

  60. prem amana says:

    kartar, the reason that nobody comes forth with their negative stories is that nobody wants to put Osho in disgrace because of some idiot and also nobody wants to be reminded of the traumatic experiences that can be forced upon a desperate seeker. anyway you and alok made your point.

  61. What to say, this discussion makes my heart beat faster. Again tears are coming to my eyes remembering my time in (now called Osho) Humaniversity. I am one of these people who came in the Humaniversity as a so called total-nutcase, because of intense (sex and power) abuse by parent, others and priests. This created an absolute fear for authority and after more than 3 years living in the Humaniversity in the mids-80-ties and doing all possible groups I was even more scared than ever before. The screaming just remembered me of my home-situation and I just closed off more and more. And because the therapists told me over and over again that: ‘If you don’t make it here, you will not make it anywhere else, I thought it is better to stay untill I get it.’ After more than 3 years Samadhi told me that I was not allowed anymore to do their groups because I knew them in and out and said after a while it would be better for me to leave the Humaniversity. Back in the marketplace I thought I was worth nothing and I must be the most stupid person; having done all the groups possible and still being so frightened for authority. I came to the point of, or killing myself or asking Osho for help. I went to Osho. I wrote Him a letter with my problems and asked Him to help me to fulfill my potential.
    One of his answers was to stop complaining and to take all responsibility of what happens to me, on my own shoulders. It’s something I am still ‘working on’. What I get bit by bit is: or I complain, or I take my freedom. (While I am writing this, I am laughing about myself.) I tried to talk with Veeresh about the situation, 10 years later, 20 years later, but he says; You can only complain, so he refuses with this argument an encounter. But I had a few talks with Premdip and Chandrika about the situation and that gave me more a feeling of friendliness. What I missed most in Veeresh place was Osho discourses and Osho’s meditations and the allowence to just be myself. From Veeresh I had always a kind of feeling that he is in competition with Osho. (evenso the man loves Osho very much). If you listen to Osho’s answer to Veeresh when he asked questions on therapy, drugs and the 3 fears, The Last testament vol. 2 #16, I always wonder how far Veeresh really heard Osho’s answer. To me it seems he is often doing the opposite as what Osho requested him. Now I live since 20 years in Osho Mevlana Commune Amsterdam and what I see is that most of us have to learn to stop manipulating, to stop pointing to others, to stop abuse of power, jealousy and so on. Several people in the commune have a diploma from Veeresh therapist training and I don’t see any difference that they are more clear, more silent, more clean that others. I see more that the therapists have the tendency to be more of a priest, preaching/knowing what is good and what is bad for others. But possibly the counts for therapists in genaral.

  62. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam Tarangita, in a way I can empathise with you as I too had a load of negative experiences in therapy (not at the Humaniversity).

    But I recognise that at the time I wasn’t really fit for such intense undertakings, although I’d have been disappointed if I’d been refused entry.

    I think people should be screened more carefully before they’re allowed in to these situations, but that too would be perhaps too tricky.

    However, I totally agree that therapists have become like contemporary ‘priests’, both in and out of sannyas. That might be comforting to the vulnerable who want to feel protected by outside ‘wisdom and power’, but it’s something that one simply has to grow out of, in time – asap, in fact! – if one is to face life with some maturity.

    I know this is often easier said than done, esp for those of us who have experienced a large amount of trauma and/or dysfunction. But it’s not made any easier by the pedestal upon which therapists are placed and indeed, on which they often seem to like to place themselves.

    As you say, they are just ordinary people, who can help a bit here and there…

    But they’re not necessarily founts of superior wisdom and they don’t, except in very rare cases, monopolise any ‘hotline’ to God!

    So…de-frock them all, I say!

    All the Best to you.

  63. Satya Deva says:

    And by the way, why on earth did you remain there for THREE YEARS if nothing or very little good was happening for you?!

    And how come they allowed you to stay for so long/!

  64. Alok john says:

    SD, the problem is that at the Humaniversity and elsewhere people are earning a living out of therapy. They need “bums on seats” and have to say their therapy is wonderful to get people through the door. They have no incentive to turn anyone away. Screening people to see who will benefit is a really professional business and I doubt most alternative therapists are up to this.

  65. Dearest Tarangita!
    With regards your human experiences being “flashed” back at you and not knowing what to do….!?Parents ,school, sex, one´s color…or when they found *Him” with both arms inside the elefant´s”ass”walking in the high street!
    I have had the same experiences,more or less with only remedy being the *breath awareness,that have made difference!
    Please try to grow awareness trough breath therapy!
    You could try by placing your hands firmly inside your navel as much as you can,as often as you can until breath starts coming and being felt by one self form ones tomy) even before”nervous anxiety arises”,and getting deeper with your breath as you breath in and out as the time go on!
    I also found that Osho´s cathartic meditations do help and in special Osho´s gift to Veeresh in the form of AUM meditation will certainly help!
    To create a gap between one´s self and the “movies going in the mind” breath is the first and perhaps the lasting theraputic effect that I have discovered!
    Please be open for help as I now know of a mystic *fairysaint,or shall we call Her this Devine Devinity the modern *Bodhisatva of compassion!
    She being the *femenyn principle that Osho´s left Us with, sharing sensitivity where is beyond *male-nature pale,without wanting to feel disrespectful towards existence because all is *wright all is *good we(*I)need only to discover my potential without burdning existence!O.Kay!
    “*Please always walk with ones *moskito net* until our defenses have grown!”
    PS_
    Whenever one feels desperate should always call for help!Hence the *fairysaint!
    Until then,
    amrit & Crew*

  66. PS_One needs only discover one´s potential!
    As opsed as it´s written above!

  67. Forgive editing wrights!

  68. BeLoveds,
    Since Osho’s response on my letter, around 20 years ago, me is growing and feeling GOOD in myself. I learn what is courage and how to be an individual in my own right. Yes a depression here and there,in periods like now, when this whole stuff of abuse by priests is coming up in the news… It triggers, but who cares… THIS TOO WILL PASS. I am so much wiser now. So grateful and enjoying our daily White Robe Brotherhood, so grateful, enjoying the travellers on the path in and outside the commune. No, no therapy anymore for me, no breathing, NOTHING, never again. Osho’s meditations (retreats) Yes. It’s the only thing I am still going for with full passion and trust because it works for me. Me is the living prove of it. I have done the AUM-meditation many times, but for me it is such a boring meditation. To me Osho dynamic meditation works thousands times deeper.
    Why did I stay for more than 3 years. It’s because in that time you got brainwashed: The therapists said often to us after an emotional release session: ‘If you don’t make it here, you will not make it anywhere else’. And also because the top-staff said they were enlightened, I just believed it. Never in my life before I could trust people, and I just surrenderd. I was determent to do everything and everything to make it here (in the Humaniversity) because then I would make it in the outside world too. My biggest question towards Veeresh is, ‘Why he did not send me to Osho’. Is that not what real Zen-masters do? He is the only one who can tell me his truth but it feels to me that Veersh was ashamed because I was an example of failure of his therapy and he was asked by Osho to create the best therapists in the world. And it was to much asked of his (enlightened) ego to admit this to Osho. His ego was more important than the individual-me. Anyway all the experiences made me of what I am now. Bowing down to you Osho.
    How I see it now: Everybody has to look if it is your house/your therapy yes or not. I have seen many people, included my son, doing group(s) with Veeresh (-staff), with more intelligence than I had at that time, and I can see they grow through this and are happy with the experiments.

  69. prem bubbie says:

    Back in the 80′s there were the “therapy group addicts”…. some things never change….. was it done deliberately by the therapists themselves to get the gullible ones to keep coming back? How dreadful!!

  70. shantam prem says:

    Sometime i wonder what people likeThis BHOSRI KA, Bubbie (consult some Indian in your city for the exact meaning of capital lettered words), or other spiritually evolved people expect from Sannyasins.

    Should the sannyasins stand with pro or con placards before the anti abortion clinics?
    Should we pay monthly to the Osho centers or the green peace or to work hard in IT, medicine or banking sector and share the killing with people in poor countries or simply to collect the food stamps, sit in the trailor and mastrubate thrice a day!
    After all, what is the criteria?
    There must be a yard stick in these people´s mind.

  71. Shantam Prem, the word sannyasins is already a group-name and Osho hammers us on being individuals. I don’t mind about Sw.Amrit Bhaskar. I didn’t ask for advise and I got it anyway from him. It’s a terrible habbit that most of us have in the beginning of the Search. I had this habbit too and people got sick of it. It’s an art to just listen en (maybe) respond. Mostly people just want to be heard.
    Prem Bubbie, you say: ‘was it done deliberately by the therapists themselves to get the gullible ones to keep coming back?’ I don’t think so. I am sure it all happened unconsciously. Therapists were really thinking that they were helping the ‘gullible ones’. And if the therapy didn’t work, they thought that we didn’t do the therapy good enough. We should have put more energy in it. It’s a big blind spot and Osho has talked a lot about it. There is a compilation Osho-book called: ‘Beyond the Frontiers of the Mind.’ This (little) book is all about the trap of the therapist taking the role of the priest.

  72. Alok john says:

    Shantam Tarangita wrote “Therapists were really thinking that they were helping the ‘gullible ones’. And if the therapy didn’t work, they thought that we didn’t do the therapy good enough. We should have put more energy in it.”

    I have often wondered about this myself. In the case of L above, I expect Dhyano and Pragit told her that paying the money could be the beginning of a new life for her. I find it hard to understand that they really believed this. To me it was apparent that L’s problems were far beyond the scope of “Humaniversity therapy.” After all, just because you see some people are helped, does not mean everyone can be helped; the therapy has not been properly tested with control groups and the like. I have often thought of Dhyano and Pragit as evil, merely taking L’s money. But maybe they were not evil, just stupid.

  73. Alok john says:

    Just to add a bit, I imagine that when Dhyano and Pragit visited L in London to collect the money, they did not say “We are here to collect our bill.” I think they would have told her how good Humaniversity therapy was, how it could help her, how important “keeping agreements” is, and all the rest of it.

    My question is, if they said that, were they sincere?

  74. Alok john says:

    Maybe the basic problem is Dhyano and Pragit believed in “positive thinking”; the idea that if you think positively enough anything is possible.

  75. Hallo Alok John, I don’t think these people (as Pragit and Dhyano) are evil. I think there are only a very few people really evil in the world. People are acting out of deep unconsciousness. I have done myself bad things and if I look back on it, it comes out of my own abusive upbringing, hormons and nobody around me who was really loving and mirrored me. That made me into the agressive bitch I was. And then I was also part of organising an Osho Commune. Some people must have thought I was evil, and left the commune because of it, but I just didn’t know better. That’s why I am so deeply grateful towards Osho and His meditation-techniques. He safed my (spiritual) life. I cann’t understand why Osho/Veeresh therapist are not going to White Robe. It’s a ‘slow’ proces, but it works, (not only for me). I also don’t understand why so little Osho Meditation Camps are held.
    Something else. You write that the Aum Social Meditation, came out 1 year after Osho left the body. But in my memory it got developped in 1987 orso. If my memory is good, Osho gave the AUM-meditation to Veeresh. This was 3 day positivity expression, 2 days negativity expression and than silence, but I cannot remember how long. I did this group and the group was immense strong for me. Than Veeresh created his own Aum-meditation. In my memory he went with this meditation to Osho and Osho had said to him to keep this meditation in the West. If you want to know how it exactly happened you need to ask Veeresh himself, but this is how it stayed in my memory.
    ps. I am curious for the book you wrote…

  76. Alok john says:

    Shantam Tarangita,

    I did not actually write a book but my story is told in a book about victims of child abuse by Morven Fyfe, once Ma Lola from Scotland.

    The book is here
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Survivors-Stories-Enlightening-Journey-Differing/dp/095561970X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

    and I am the person who wrote the review!

    Ps I agree with you about Osho discourses and meditations

  77. Please refer to*fairysaint if we feel desperatly in need of help!
    Do not alow (and this is to remind myself!)panic to setle down for breath to beggin to work!Please lets take this opportunity and ask the *Fairysaint for Her bodhicchitta of Compassion to start working the pistons of love for Us!
    Yes, dance for the *femenyn-priciple as you´re the catcher of Lord´s comings and plaes share to your male-nature bro to His incapacity to love as we´re!Please show Us the way!
    PS-”Please,remember that every man is henpeck*”!
    Osho is our love,until then,
    amritlind &crew
    (Moskito net is a must,until…!)

  78. Satya Deva says:

    Amrit Bhaskar, I have to tell you that I find your posts largely incomprehensible ramblings.
    Maybe you have something valuable to say? If so, please say it clearly, in ordinary, everyday language.

    Otherwise, you’ll be relegated to the ranks of ‘nutters’!!

  79. Alok john says:

    SD, I think Bhaskar is a boozer. I shared a flat with him in Pune a long time ago.

  80. Satya Deva says:

    I see!! (Cheers, Alok!)

    Re (ex-Ma Prem Lola) Morven Fyfe’s book, where Alok is a contributor, I will add my recommendation, it’s a real eye-opener on ‘growing up the wrong way’, ie as a victim of child abuse.

    Well worth checking out if that area of life interests you, to see the extent of burden some have had to take on.

  81. Alok john says:

    SD,

    Oh you read it. Thanks. I always wonder if it gets read, in the sannyas community or elsewhere.

  82. Nutty!
    If I remind you something about oneself,and if because of it you started watching the *0ld box,there will be greater satisfaction in existence,(all of Us), for a *nutty that perhaps, for His nuttiness, for being a *great teacher or *psychoanalist but another existencial nutty!Join the ranks!
    Being passed for a “nutty” is perhaps a “zen koan for my mind is opening”!
    My “clarity is as often combined with how much my *editors will want to let by, without feeling that they´ll be loosing their *unconcious as it has been made clear to me!”
    Please meanwhile join the ranks of *fairys,or the *nuttys that are being taken care by this *fairysaint that at moment is under tremendous competion from *nature-nature(human minds!),but She is not bothered by it, as She´s beyond Nature and Her *nature-nature trapings! His libido,(*Nature-nature,clear enough?)is blocking His spiral upwards(Ours!)and this Bodichitta of compassion Has been sent to help Us out of this “fog” situation and go back to *dance or *breath or whatever we are each, suited to and wheter we are catchers*as an imitations of the *fairysaint! *Male-nature in search for help,whilst He goes on with His cane and saying I Know,I know” !
    O.K-dear Alok I might be a “booser” but often time, that wine has virtues beyond some therapy rooms that charge 200Pounds sterling P/Hour!Belive me?!
    I often hear you with some coments about certain therapies but it would be wise in Us all to take back the *breath therapy(hands in the navel,and no apologies!)until we felt breath coming from that area,or dance until the dancer is left behind,remember OSHO?
    (This can be only the clarity and light that I recomend, any one from this very nutty mode,that I find myself in,
    all becuse of the *Fairysaint!)A gift from the beyond literaly!
    Join this pilgrimage if you would want clarity coming from a rather this*poor ediotic mind!
    Please dont let it get to your wealth of verbiosities,or even wisdom!
    Osho ,is our love,
    until then,
    amritlind & crew*

  83. Satya Deva says:

    Oh, I see.

  84. Kartar says:

    Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.

  85. Kartar says:

    A clinical hypnotherapist induced a trance to a large group of volunteers and ordered them to do whatever he said immediately upon command. Unfortunately, he tripped over his own couch and yelled Shit!