In that movie called. …“I”…

A Living Master ?

I read on “Sannyas” news this funny comment: “I need deconditioning from sannyas conditionings, perhaps I should try ‘family constellation therapy’ to see why I belong to this dysfunctional crazy crowd of individual freaks. It must be my grandfather’s fault.”

Of course our grandfathers were at fault and we have to love and hate them for that. Because it happened; That’s all, and there is no more than that….. We don’t own life.

If we look around, not any living creature on this planet owns life. Life owns us, all of us and every cell and thought of us. So let’s behave in accordance with that. Don’t deny what love is, but neither don’t deny what suffering is. Both colours make the painting. Only one colour makes life ugly and really boring. The depths of love you learn in the struggle, rarely in the hug. Accept life, and enjoy being part of it by living who you are, and just learn from that.

That’s also why cults don’t work. They think they can control life by suppressing parts of it. There is no cult on this planet that accepts life as it is. Oshoites, Christians, Muslims, Buddhist, they all try to make that new perfect being or whatever. Just by mutilating life..

I suspect that life plays a trick on us. We have to think that life is about us and that we are the only star in that movie called. …“I”…

When we go inside, what do we find: Normal-“I’s”, Spiritual-“I-s”, I don have a Ego-“I’s”, Criminal “I’s”, I’m de master-“I’s”, I’m not an I-“I’s”, Enlightened-“I’s”, Beyond enlightenment –“I’s”, Suffering-“I‘s. I help you “I’s”, I feel lonely-“I’s I don believe you-“I’s”. All these I’s have one simple thing in common: me me me.

It is probably a trick of life that animals like us have to think this way, and I must say it has some logic. Awaking in the morning we all have to solve that one and only problem: Where do …“I”… get my first coffee today? And nobody can suppress the split second aversion when this coffee is not there. We need all kind of tricks to avoid, that we beat someone up for that. Kids normally say: “You have to die”. That’s honest. We just think it… or even worse, we become Oshoites, Christians or what so ever to repress or to fly from it…

Love and hate is just the way life is. We are part of that. So feel: feel stupid, proud, be sad, love, hate and be relaxed about it. Show hate in love and love in hate. Accept that we are involuntary programmable robots on this 3.5 billion year old merry go round.

Our granddads did what ever they had to do and that’s okay by me. They also had no choice and that programmed us. This is it. There is no other story.

This is it. . There is no delete switch in the brain, which accepts or suppresses the story. And remember nobody will love “you”, because you simply aren’t there. So breathe slowly… relax and love – and show your feelings of reprisal. We need contact to be alive and learn.

We have to love and hate granddad and if not, we end up as that lonely empty cockroach in the woods, happily eaten by the ants. Ants are always happy. Being social they surely are part of some cult, you know. But … when there is a living master… ….. …..

Vigyano (Michiel) Dorenbosch, Netherlands.

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131 Responses to In that movie called. …“I”…

  1. Punam says:

    I’ve always enjoyed being an involuntary programmable robot. In fact i am more involuntary and programmable than most other programmable involuntary robots i meet. I am quite special and unique that way don’t you know?
    I am involuntarily making these comments, I just can’t stop myself. I would blow a fuse if I tried. I am programmed in such a way that ‘smart ass’ button is jammed in the on position!
    One big freak solar pulse should be enough to melt the circuits and create the New Robot. The Dawn of the New Robot is upon us………………see i can start aother new religion!
    The White Robot Brotherhood ……..?

  2. shantam prem says:

    That was the assurance from the great Master that involuntarily programming can be changed. His talks, groups, meditation techniques for contemporary humanity, hundred thousands of people who followed most of the suggestions, and at the end of the day,i don´t know how much plaster has helped to reduce the size of the tumor.

  3. Punam says:

    Vigyano the quote which you read on ‘Sannyas’ news ,as you put it, was in my view just a little bit of humour. The author sees the futility of swapping one conditioning for another, mocks the therapy, embraces his nutty new family and throws in his grandad for effect and to show the lightheartedness of his comment.

    Still a good excuse to preach a little eh? ‘ I Am That Twat’ too!

    I do not like the term Oshoite that Vigyano used. It shows disrespect to Osho. I do not like the term ‘great’ Master that Shantam used, also disrespectful. Whats the matter with you guys!? Bow to your Master ! Come on give me a hundred prostrations for showing disrespect. Up one two three……….!

  4. amano says:

    punam you are very egoist…….it hurts you that someone is in love with osho and called him a great master and if vigyano use term oshoties , you need to take it easy because sometimes we needs to use those words to explain something and share feelings …………..what would you use if not oshoties……….stop looking at small thinghs and do not get caught into words, try to look in person from where the words are coming from ………….As osho always said look at moon , do not start to bite finger which is pointing to moon.
    if you knew vigyano and shantam or me , you will never say that we disrespect osho
    i have met lots and lots sannyasins like you in my pune time , who get caught into mind trips and into words…….for exmple lots of westerners would not bow down to osho because it huts them to accept osho and his greatness.
    at the same time indian would bow down, without understanding of qualities of osho . those both missed the point………..anyway i am getting caught myself now into worlds , so i shut up …………love to you

  5. Punam says:

    You’re telling me not to look at small things!? What about Vigyano, tell him, he’s observing lonely cockroaches in forests being eaten by ants…..getting smaller and smaller.

    Amano are you looking at the person from which my words come? yes I am just an ordinary everyday common egoist,so how can i take that as a reprimand from you? Its as they say in German ‘Selbsverstandlich’. Am I in ego or not? So I must be egoist.
    Even perhaps an Egoite!
    There should be no such word as Oshoite by the way. Who made this rediculous word up. Outsiders, thats who! Shall we resurrect ‘Rajneeshism’ while we are at it!
    Shantam, now i see perhaps you really did mean great Master. I thought you were being sarcastic…..hey I don’t usually jump to the defence of Osho any more, i had enough of that over the years, just about every Indian i meet in London has an ill informed view of Osho and his Sanyassins. Perhaps its a full moon tonight or something!

    love to you too amano

  6. amano says:

    punam, i like word egoite and sarcastie and puneties, thanks for reply. I wish you all the best . i make my message short , otherwise some reader is going to find some mistake and hit me with words

  7. shantam prem says:

    In India it is already 21st March, Osho´s enlightenment day, Punam let me tell truthfully, all my satires are reserved only for the people, who have shrinked the expansion of His work and who are imposing their dogma over their fellow travelers.
    Rest of the world, the way it is, i accept with respect.

  8. Punam says:

    I AM………….

    an Uptight
    Outta sight
    Far from Right
    In spite
    l love Marmite
    life in Black and white
    long to see the light
    and leave the night
    with second sight
    Heavenly height
    spiritual might
    Give up the fight
    just Fly a Kite
    and feel the sleight
    to Take the bite
    All is trite…………………………..THAT

    so Goodnight XXXX :) )

  9. amano says:

    open letter to osho management
    I like management team should issue apology to millions of sannyasins who are hurt by their actions… is never too late to change the corse again …….it will be nice if management start again celebration happenings like osho,s enlightement day or full moon in july and birthday of osho and the day osho left body………i am sure sannyasins will forgive them and will not look forward if celebtraions comes back to where they belong……..what you think guys …….is it possible that jayesh and amrito come forward and start listening to voices of sannyasins , and responding in human way …….this can not carry on and on,. it is time that management look deep into we sannyasins are …………….why capture osho and his beautiful gathering ……… i a day dreamer of is it please ………pleaes enlightened me on this . thanks and love to you all

  10. Prem Jashan says:

    Thanks for reminding about the Osho’s enlightenment day. Just today I was listening to Osho’s talks on Zen. He explained how trust and gratitude are different from the words belief and faith. Those who have experienced the higher and higher awareness because of a Master like Osho will surely have gratitude towards him. Unfortunately some people misunderstand it . They need to know that gratitude is not blind belief or faith. Just a thankfulness and love for what he has done.

    Its sheer stupidity that Pune Popes don’t understand such a simple thing. Why drop the celebrations/pictures, instead you can simply post a disclaimer ” This is for the people who wants to pay their gratitude to their master. If you do not feel so, then its not for you. But if it is for some people why not you, may be you are missing the track or you need to work thru it further. We can only recommend it but not enforce ” or some thing like that.

  11. Prem Jashan says:

    You are absolutely right Amano. Everyone who drank the divine wine from Osho’s words and experienced the flowering in his garden would feel the same way. Only people who missed him or who are on power trip can only drop the celebrations. Who are they to impose all this. As a responsible and care taking leader of the Osho’s work, they should try to present his work in all possible ways to the individuals in the world. And let the individual decide what they need to do. Its between him and is master Osho. All you need to do is to put people in-front of Osho’s video or audio or book. Let Osho take care of the rest, let him do the work. Who are you to mess it up, with what authority.

    Yes, they cannot take things granted..We are not going to keep quite., if this continues..

  12. amano says:

    prem jashan, i wish pune popes one day learn to recommend and not enforce.
    lots and lots new rules and guidlines have been imposed on sannyasins not only who visit , but who run centers around the world.
    there are always email going from osho global center to all the osho centers . those emails i was reading and they were full of non sence ………….osho global decide so many thinghs about how osho center should be run……… is bottom line for them stop imposing and en forcing to sannyasins

  13. Chinmaya says:

    Oh God,

    Kindly bless Jayesh and Amrito wisdom enough to accept the requests/opinions of millions of Sanyasins, scattered to come togather at one place, viz. OSHO ASHRAM, PUNE………..


  14. Swami Detective says:

    The Pune terrorist incident: an adequate response from Osho resort?

    As soon as the German Bakery was blown up, surely the Osho Resort should have gone into total lock down. After all, it became increasingly evident over the preceding weeks and months that the resort was also a major target. Unless the management somehow intuitively knew that there would be only one terrorist incident that night, their conduct is decidedly questionable.

    The management claimed to have taken all necessary measures to ensure the safety of visitors. The management also repeatedly claims that it was not targeted as, unlike the German Bakery, it is not a soft target. I beg to differ. Swami Headley, a new Osho disciple, has pleaded guilty to the planning phase of the Mumbai siege. (He did this for two reasons. Firstly to avoid the death penalty, and secondly to avoid being extradited to India). The Mumbai siege was carried out by a team of highly trained militants. Do you really think that the Osho Resort is a hard target?

    The safety of all in White-Robe should have been a top priority. Yet I hear that the guard at main-gate did not want to interrupt White-Robe. Was at least some pre-planned measures swiftly enacted – perhaps armed guards at the entrances of the Auditorium? Dhyanesh is the security manager. Was he too busy in the Auditorium trying to kick out a person that might have secretly let out a little sneeze? Surely he should have been immediately pulled out of White-Robe to co-ordinate the response.

    People who ferried the dead and injured to hospital were clearly also doing so under great duress and courage. Obviously there was a potential for further attack. Pakistan militants have a liking to also kill more targets as the injured and their carers and relatives reach the hospital.

    The absurdity is further deepened by visitors to the resort partying into the night blissfully unaware of the happenings down the road. Surely, with the potential for an attack, to carry on a disco is in brazen ignorance of that distinctly possible threat. To not put the place in lock-down, and on the contrary to have a disco party, is to put the lives of the people at the resort at risk. To not inform resort visitors of the German Bakery blast is to also leave people at risk when they leave the resort. For sure you can say people have the right to exercise their own level of caution outside the resort, but to not inform them takes this right away. Many resort goers wandered out of the resort that night, completely unaware of the possibly danger of further attacks. This is reprehensible.

    To make matters worse, we have an Osho sannyasin simply wanting to inform the disco goers of what has happened, yet this person was ridiculed and banned from the resort for a year. On the surface of things I almost want to believe that this just could not be. Yet the resort management has acted in such an ignorant manner that I am willing to consider the possibility of this scenario having been played out exactly as represented on Osho sannyasin websites.

    Do you trust the resort when they say that they have made adequate security preparations? Certainly I do not. Do you think the threat has now dissipated? The resort is not only at loggerheads with the majority of the Osho sannyasin movement (excluding the new recruits gathered into the fold from a slippery advertising campaign). The resort also has the long time residents of Koregaon Park growing in opposition to them. Furthermore, under the strict guidance of a few Western style power brokers (that have removed all other original Inner-Circle members that had the courage to differ), the resort has become the epitome of Western opulence; for this it not only has the Indian flavour of Osho’s spirituality to contend with, but now also Islamic extremism. The model of ‘Resort’ is acutely designed to attract terrorists. Well done I say on that count, and well done on your abysmal response to the first serious threat.

    The central argument seems to be that the resort management have lost their heart. I beg to differ. They have lost their head. Are you willing to invest your life, your friends’ lives, or fellow travellers lives, in the resort’s highly acclaimed inability to ensure the safety of its visitors?

    The threat still exists. The militants in Karachi that have viewed video footage of the resort are still roaming free. Headley has presumably carried out and disseminated the surveillance details necessary for a significant attack in Pune. Also, it makes no sense that he and his band of highly trained militants only managed to blow up a back-pack at the German Bakery. It hardly compares to the Mumbai siege.

    The resort management is continuing on its merry way of arrogant self-righteousness that they have somehow justified in their minds to be acting in strict accordance with the scriptures of Osho. Doing so, they will continue to invite confrontation. The threat has now been demonstrated to be deadly in significance. The management has demonstrated an inability to adequately respond in the face of such a serious threat.

    The primary general response from resort management was to diminish the significance of the act (and the bakery). This distancing is symptomatic of a deep denial. Ironically their main interpersonal response is to say that ‘you are in shock’. From what I have read, though many people may have been in shock (it would seem almost psychopathic or inhumane not to be, at least to some extent), they have acted in an intelligent and humane manner. Hence despite their shock they were able to respond to the situation at hand. The management at the resort was unable to respond effectively, and has grown over the years into a long-term denial of reality.

    It is persistently asked whether or not you would entrust Osho’s legacy to the current authorities. I also ask, would you entrust your life (and others lives) to these authorities?

  15. shantam prem says:

    21st March, Osho´s Enlightenment Day.

    A story from the life and times of OSHO-

    Few days before Osho left his body, He calls his 21 main disciples in the library adjoining his room.
    It is first time Osho has called these people together, so a great anticipation was in the air.
    Nobody has the idea why this meeting is called for, but most of the eyes were filled with tears of gratitude, when master enters and takes His place.
    Osho looks at each of them and assures them with positivity with His alluring smile.
    on the side table, some one from his care taking team, puts surprisingly not the mick to address but a box of tooth picks.
    Osho opens the box and nodes them to call closer and gives 2 tooth picks to each of them.
    Disciples were curious as no one has the idea what Master wants to convey but every one was sure that they will obey master´s instructions even at the cost of their life.

    Osho tells them to take one tooth pick and feel how much energy it takes to break this.Every one in the room felt it as a child´s play to break this thin and fine wooden stick. After this experiment, which was finished hardly in a minute, Osho asks some of them to collect remaining one tooth pick from every one and this time to break them together.

    Every one gives the try but together these delicate and fine wooden sticks have gathered the strength.One could bend them a little but to break them was impossible.

    Master looks at them with wisdom and naughtiness in the eyes and says, when His time comes to leave this shore, you people will have the responsibility to carry forward the expansion of the work. If your hearts stay together in spite of individual ego, work will remain solid and outer forces will not have the chance to destroy this unique experiment of human consciousness and if you get scattered by the ego, it will break like these broken tooth pricks.

    I wanted to show both the possibilities. Choice is yours.

  16. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem, I’d never heard the toothpick story before, so thanks for that.
    Question is. did the hearts stay together or did the ego win. From my limited perspective I’d say a bit of both.
    I’m off to the kitchen to check out the toothpicks.

  17. Punam says:

    …………someone is taking the mick here!………..

  18. Snehil says:

    As I understand, Dhynesh is not right persone for security, He is not intelligent enough to secure this palce. for sure must be big team can manage. over all Dhyanesh is enjoying his ego trip and power politics even in such dangerous time. My God…when Jayesh will open his eyes ….yes, situation is risky….what to do!!! I think now every body can see how 21 peopls inner cirlcel is importent…in such situation we need our own people not out side gaurd…they can not protect…sorry frineds our master’s place is in danger…in real time to wak up….just writing in sannyasnews will not work…hay can you hear me….to who, Osho used to say…MY PEOPLE…”….

  19. Lokesh says:

    Well…I just checked the toothpicks out and a baby could have snapped them. Of course, being Osho, his toothpicks were probably pure platinum.

  20. Punam says:

    Shantam your story reminds me of one I heard from the Gnostic Gospels about a broadly similar trick performed by Jesus to his disciples at the Last Supper. Apparently it involved a length of string and a mango, I cannot go into details on this thread as apart from being clouded in history and mystery is also a bit on the rude side. Needless to say by virtue of her outstanding performance that night Mary Magdelane came out on top as the single unchallengeable successor to expand Jesus’ work after he left this shore. Unfortunately, and in ways similar to lessons learned from the toothpick parable, things didn’t work out as planned or a Jesus inteneded. Perhaps this is the real message of the Masters ‘If there’s anything needs to be screwed up when i’m gone i know I can trust you lot not to disappoint me!” Amen

  21. vigyano says:

    Punam .. the devil is in the details you know. But you are right, also to me it feels nice, just flying away as kite…

    Swami Detective… Long story, good reading, nice and sharp me…

  22. Punam says:

    ……………..pure delight……

  23. Heraclitus says:

    Most human beings have to go through the experience of being the victim of charisma, in both love and the pursuit of truth.
    A few seemed to have passed through that in some previous life, but for most of us… …
    For me several unanswered questions arise: the mind set of having a Master… being a disciple… no doubt something to pass through and get to the other side of?
    How do those who present as Masters view themselves? They are certainly not error free, but it does seem to be part of the presenting mask they employ.
    I have always felt that for most of us it is important to go through the experience of having a Master, but also finally to emerge as Master of oneself. This in any case fits with the paradigm of most Master’s “work”.
    This guy Viragho seems to be flagging up some kind of advaita emergence from the captivities of discipleship, or certainly the captivities of being with a dead Master. But he does not say it very clearly.

  24. shantam prem says:

    it seems Abhay has emerge in the new Avtara as Swami Detective.
    Names may get change and faces can have masks but writing style like thumb impressions and genes remain almost the same.

  25. Swami Detective says:

    Amrito, the most senior figure residing at the Osho resort (vice-chair of the Inner-Circle) was reported to have a strong smell of alcohol on his breath at 11am the following morning. Presumably he was more interested in having a good time at the disco than making some commonsense decisions to ensure the safety of visitors to the resort. We also have a reported sighting of Jayesh at Mumbai airport soon after the incident. Could he not have cancelled the flight in order to offer his direct physical involvement in making an effective response to such a serious incident? Did Dhyanesh, the head of security, spend the first critical hour after the explosion watching his navel in White-Robe? How credible is the official media release that the resort has taken all necessary security measures to ensure the safety of visitors?

  26. vigyano says:

    Heraclitus, nice words and I agree, charisma and inspiration colour the path trough the questions of life, whatever the mask may be. It are the shoulders of giants we are standing on and Osho surely is one of them. I often wondered; who is more happy the master or the pupil? To me it’s mainly the road itself which creates the fun. So it could be the pupil in my case.

    My referring to master ship however is about the underlying question. Is it really possible to keep the times of Osho alive for ever? I could be mistaken, but what I deem to see is that we Osho-lovers, move more and more in the direction of something like a cult. Quarrelling about what Osho said or mend or not. Using sacred texts to “proof” how right we individually are. Splitting up in different groups or schools. It seems as if most independ thinking ceased to exist, at the very moment he left his body.

    Osho’s messages and books are a big inspiration to find our ways through life and they will be for many generations to come. My frustration is that notwithstanding al the superb backing we as sannyasins have (except the trademark case), we behave like paralyzed in the communication with the management of the Resort in Pune.

    I think that this resort could be one of the great central places, and I was happy to see more and more young people coming there, really enjoying the Osho (?) Multiversity. So I hope that Pune will survive the impact of the German Bakery blast.

    But aware as we seem on the individual level, asleep we seem on the public level. Do we really want to change what is happening there backstage, and if so, what keeps us from taking a joint position and make the inner circle to show responsibility and accountability to the rest of the sannyasin world. It may sound as politics and business talk, but who has seen an annual report for the last 20 years? Or who is formal the owner of the place anyway? Please put it on this site… It could be a start to open up to a new communications and new growth.

    I would regret it if we just let it all happen without a try.. To me that’s all. I’m still ashamed the way they handled the blast and that will never change I think, but ultimately they themselves have to deal with that…also Swami Detective made this very clear I think…Just lets make a try…

  27. Alok john says:

    Re : Resort Security.

    You forget Osho teaches trust and let-go. Always.

  28. amano says:

    tooth pick story by shantam is beautiful and meaningful.
    osho left great responsibility for 21 , . in the begining it works, their hearts were together , but later after some years ego took over heart. orginal 21 started to leave and new members were replaced and selection was done on the basis of money, celever and worldly qualifililaction and heart was ignore. Heart was ignored because man or women with big heart, will not be able to make big money for greedy chairman and co.chiarman……….we pramod, sahajand ,bodhi taru ,sadhana ,devender, zareen are new faces which were replaced by nice sannyasins like yogi, abhirbava, wadud, hasya . it is sad that 21 member who were orginallly selected from osho could not remmber tooth pick story for long time. it they remmber that story , today i would be sleeping and not writting this message on this website , love to you all the readers

  29. garimo says:

    Shantam prem love,
    It’s looking like times are ripe for the re-telling of new old stories.
    21 toothpicks indeed.
    Tell us gullible more unheard of Osho stories.
    We thirst for more things to believe.

  30. shantam prem says:

    Alok john // Mar 22, 2010 at 4:27 am
    Re : Resort Security.
    You forget Osho teaches trust and let-go. Always.

    I hope Alok John, you don´t have any lock at the main door of your house.
    And i am sure, your partner must be the happiest person to have some like you, who is not using any kind of control mechanism, following the teachings of trust and let-go always.

    Sometime we forget that Tampons are for some special purpose, one cannot put them anywhere and they are not for everybody.

  31. Fresch says:

    Hi friek friends,

    It’s new decade. Hello! “From this moment the next moment is born. “ Everything will change for better than we ever expected. You will see! Decade of ants is behind, butterflies are soaring…

  32. Fresch says:

    we have a living master in our friends..*bowing down to you*

  33. Alok john says:

    shantam prem….

    Yes I have a lock on my door. But my home is not the ashram of a great master who teaches trust and let-go. If I visit the ashram, I expect to have to learn the lessons of insecurity. Osho spoke many times about the value of insecurity. If I visit the ashram I expect to have my conditioning challenged

    Do you know the story of Saraha and the arrowsmith woman who celebrated in the cremation grounds…

    “THE LEGEND HAS IT that the woman was nobody but a hidden Buddha. The name of the Buddha
    given in the scriptures is Sukhnatha – the Buddha who had come to help the great potential man,
    Saraha. Buddha, a certain Buddha of the name Sukhnatha, took the form of a woman. But why?
    why the form of a woman? Because Tantra believes that just as a man has to be born out of a
    woman, so the new birth of a disciple is also going to be out of a woman. In fact, all the Masters
    are more mothers than fathers. They have the quality of the feminine. Buddha is feminine, so is
    Mahavir, so is Krishna. You can see the feminine grace, the feminine roundness; you can see the
    feminine beauty; you can look into their eyes and you will not find the male aggressiveness.

    So it is very symbolic that a Buddha took the form of a woman. Buddhas always take the form of a
    woman. They may be living in a male body, but they are feminine – because ALL that is born is born
    out of the feminine energy. Male energy can trigger it but cannot give birth.

    A Master has to keep you in his womb for months, for years, sometimes for lives. One never knows
    when you will be ready to be born. A Master has to be a mother. A Master has to be tremendously
    capable of feminine energy, so that he can shower love on you – only then can he destroy. Unless
    you are certain about his love, you will not allow him to destroy you. How will you trust? Only his
    love will make you able to trust. And through trust, by and by, he will cut limb by limb. And one day
    suddenly you will disappear. Slowly, slowly, slowly..and you are gone. GATE, GATE, PARA GATE –
    going, going, going, gone. Then the new is born.

    The arrowsmith woman accepted him. In fact, she was waiting. A Master waits for the disciple. Old
    traditions say: Before a disciple chooses the Master, the Master has chosen the disciple. Exactly
    that’s what happened in this story. Sukhnatha was hiding in the form of a woman waiting for Saraha
    to come and be transformed through him.

    And it seems more logical too, that a Master should choose first – because he is more aware, he
    knows. He can penetrate to the very possibility of your being, the very potentiality. He can see your
    future. He can see that which can happen. When you choose a Master, you think you have chosen –
    you are wrong. How can you choose a Master? You are so blind, how can you recognize a Master?
    You are so unaware, how can you feel a Master? If you start feeling him, that means he has already
    entered in your heart and has started playing with your energies – that’s why you start feeling him.

    Before a disciple ever chooses a Master, the Master has chosen him already.

    She accepted. She was waiting for Saraha to come. They moved to a cremation ground and started
    living together. Why to a cremation ground? Because Buddha says: Unless you understand death
    you will not be able to understand life. Unless you DIE, you will not be reborn.

    Many Tantra disciples have lived in the cremation ground since Saraha. He was the founder; he
    lived in a cremation ground. People would be brought, dead bodies would be brought and burnt,
    and he lived there – that was his home. And he lived with this arrowsmith woman; they lived together.
    There was great love between them – not the love of a woman and a man, but the love of a Master
    and a disciple, which is certainly higher than any man-woman love can ever reach, which is more
    intimate, certainly more intimate… because a man-woman love affair is just of the bodies. At the
    most, sometimes it reaches to the mind; otherwise it remains in the body.

    A disciple and a Master – it is a soul love affair. Saraha had found his soulmate. They were in
    tremendous love, great love, which rarely happens on the earth.

    She taught him Tantra. Only a woman can teach Tantra. Somebody asked me why I have chosen
    Kaveesha to be the group leader for Tantra – only a woman can be a Tantra group leader. It will be
    difficult for a man. Yes, sometimes a man can also be, but then he will have to become very very
    feminine. A woman is already; she has already those qualities, those loving, affectionate qualities;
    she naturally has that care, that love, that feeling for the soft.

    Saraha became a tantrika under the guidance of this arrowsmith woman. Now he was no longer
    meditating. One day he had left all the Vedas, scriptures, knowledge; now he left even meditation.
    Now rumors started spreading all over the country: He no longer meditates. He sings, of course,
    and dances too, but no meditation any more. Now singing was his meditation. Now dancing was his
    meditation. Now celebration was his whole lifestyle.

    Living in a cremation ground and celebrating! Living where only death happens and living joyously!
    This is the beauty of Tantra – it joins together the opposites, the contraries, the contradictories. If
    you go to the cremation ground you will feel sad; it will be difficult for you to be joyous; it will be very
    difficult for you to sing and dance where people are being burnt, and where people are crying and
    weeping. And every day death and death… day and night death. How will you rejoice?

    But if you cannot rejoice there, then all that you think is your joy is just a make-believe. If you can
    rejoice there, then joy has really happened to you. Now it is unconditional. Now it doesn’t make any
    difference whether death happens or life, whether somebody is born or somebody is dying.

    Saraha started singing and dancing. He was no longer serious – Tantra is not. Tantra is a
    playfulness. Yes, it is sincere, but not serious. It is very joyous. Play entered his being – Tantra
    is play, because Tantra is a highly evolved form of love: Love is play.

    There are people who would not like even love to be a play. Mahatma Gandhi says: Make love only
    when you want to reproduce. Even love they change into work – reproduction. This is just ugly!
    Make love to your woman only when you want to reproduce – is she a factory!?’Reproduction’? –
    the very word is ugly. Love is fun! Make love to your woman when you are feeling happy, joyous,
    when you are at the top of the world. Share that energy. Love your man when you have that quality
    of dance and song and joy – not for reproduction! The word’reproduction’ is obscene! Make love out
    of joy, out of abundant joy. Give when you have it!

    Play entered into his being. A lover has always the spirit of play. The moment the spirit of play
    dies, you become a husband or a wife, then you are no longer lovers; then you reproduce. And the
    moment you become a husband or a wife, something beautiful has gone dead. It is no more alive,
    the juice flows no more. Now it is just pretension, hypocrisy.

    Play entered his being, and through play true religion was born. His ecstasy was so infectious that
    people started coming to watch him dancing and singing. And when people would come and watch,
    they would start dancing, they would start singing with him. The cremation ground became a great
    celebration. Yes, bodies were being burnt still, but more and more crowds started gathering around
    Saraha and the arrowsmith woman, and great joy was created on that cremation ground.

    And it became so infectious that people who had never heard anything about ecstasy would come,
    dance and sing, and fall into ecstasy, go into Samadhi. His very vibration, his very presence, became
    so potent that just if you were ready to participate with him, it would happen… contact high. Those
    who came around him he was so drunk that his inner drunkenness started overflowing to other
    people. He was so stoned that others started becoming stoned and more stoned.

    But then the inevitable: the Brahmins and the priests and the scholars and the so-called righteous
    people started vilifying and slandering him – that I call the inevitable. Whenever there is a man like
    Saraha, the scholars are going to be against him, the priests are going to be against him, and the
    so-called moral people, puritans, self-righteous people. They started spreading absolutely unbiased
    rumors about him.

    They started saying to people: ”He has fallen from grace. He is a pervert. He is no more a Brahmin.
    He has given up celibacy. He is no more even a Buddhist monk. He indulges in shameful practices
    with a low-caste woman and runs around like a mad dog in all directions.” His ecstasy was just like
    a mad dog to them – it depends how you interpret. He was dancing all over the cremation ground.
    He WAS mad, but he was not a mad dog – he was a mad god!

    It depends on how you look.”

    Osho, The Tantra Vision, Vol 1.

  34. Lokesh says:

    Vigyano says, ‘But what I deem to see is that we Osho-lovers, move more and more in the direction of something like a cult.’
    Sannyas was always a cult, right from the start.
    If you look the word ‘cult’ up in a good dictionary you will find that the sannyas movement created by Osho fits the word ‘cult’ perfectly.
    In the early days of the movement most of us were in denial about the fact. The word has gained notority due to various connotations. Jim Jones about sums it up. The thing is that unless people are being harmed in some way I personally don’t see anything wrong with being part of a cult, especially if it makes you feel good and promotes human potential..
    Over the years I’ve adopted a ‘wart’s an’ all’ vision in relation to Osho and his work. Osho was. among many things, a great experimentar and it is in the very nature of experimentation that things often go wrong. And so it has been with the sannyas movement.

    When Osho left us his dream he said that shortly before leaving the body. Whatever one thinks about Osho it cannot be denied that he died in a very dignified manner. Typical, in a way, of how an enlightened person goes about it. Matter of fact, one might say. Taking this into account, could it not be that the master’s dream had more to do with dying consciously than the goings on of the community he founded.
    People continue to rattle on about what Osho said in his discourses, but little pay attention to the fact that he said again and again that what he was about had nothing to do with words but rather silence. This is because it is only in silence that the truth can be understood.
    Some say he was never born and that he never died. Well and good. As I live in this body I begin to understand what that means. I also see that a lot of what goes on in the world in Osho’s name has much to do with the banal and superficial, when I believe he was a representive of that which is all encompassing, oceanic and eternal.
    Isn’t it about time that we stood up and threw away the crutch that all external manifestations of the devine represent? Why not be the gods and godesses that that beautiful man always said we were. All that is required is a little courage. The soil has been tilled, the seeds planted, now it is time to flower, for the great gardener has done his work and now we nust become that which is our destiny.
    By the way, for the dissenters who are regulars on this blog, you will find it much more rewarding to inspire rather than dissent. Why not give it a try?

  35. Alok john says:

    Lokesh, I agree that silence is really the thing. But people were complaining that the resort management were not reacting conventionally to the bombing. So I think the story of the female buddha and her disciple dancing and singing in the cremation grounds is helpful. Surely his words are not nothing?

  36. Lokesh says:

    Seeing as how it was reading Way of the White Cloud that helped bring me to the old man’s feet back in ’75, I have to be honest and say of course his words are not nothing, they are something. Not all mind you. Unlike some masters, Osho at times talked a lot of bullshit. That is cool with me. But it was more a case of the daily diatribe as opposed to God speaks.
    It is all good. Well—definately not bombs in bakeries, but I’m sure you catch my transcendental drift.

  37. vigyano says:


    It seems our common interest,
    that there is no good or bad..
    It feels at ease and peacefully,
    to be no part of that.

    I saw an early butterfly,
    It look at me and said.
    “I crossing whole the chilly sky
    and in rain, I use my hat”.

  38. vigyano says:

    There really was this butterfly to day.
    Very beautiful and really lively!
    But… I have to admit….no hat.
    I m sorry.. he forgot, I think..

  39. Fresch says:

    I have followed up some friends in face book. And I must say, something new is happening, of course I do not know what it is yet, but I can see a lot of new movement within sanyas. I think we had a resort era to get grounded in the world and also to make our money some where else but not only on sanyas and space out in pune. For me it looks like people want to spend more time together without therapy, but more meditation and fun or just chilling out relaxing.

    My intuition is that this will be the era of community; festivals at cost prize, all ages included, devotion of our master in a grounded way, people start living more together, loose, but willing to do things together without a boss organizing it…there will be enormous busts of heart and creativity happening everywhere, also in pune,. Are you going to keep complaining or fly in the sky? Hat is ok. but I want to feel also the refhreshing rain.

  40. Lokesh says:

    Anything you say, Fresch. Sounds good.

  41. vigyano says:

    agree! sounds really good and fresch

  42. Fresch says:

    It’s good that resort is the way it is physically because it helps us to connect with the outside world. (Also, it’s good to make the money on the outside, give something what we have on any work what so ever.)

    Sanyasin are really the cream of the cream of any yoga or other meditation stuff. We do not need to be a wired cult, but we can find a way to express the heart with the Master – not in emotional pls papa save me way – but staying in the true feeling. It’s coming from the very core of our being. People fee it right away.

    I still want to visit the resort for a short time, but put my real focus else where, and contribute to make it happen. How about you?

  43. Fresch says:

    I have a friend who did not want to work for a long time, but wanted to spend some time abroad. Guess what, she ended up watching a cat in a friend’s house in the countryside of Italy. And even the 20 years old cat dyed after some weeks (…:DDD, that was too much), but she stayed in the house for free… So, what are our dreams?

  44. Lokesh says:

    I still want to visit the resort for a short time, but put my real focus else where, and contribute to make it happen. How about you?
    I am not at all interested in the resort. I suppose because it is India, which in relation to my home base is a filthy country. The old man used to say that wherever three of his sannyasins get togeteher he is there. Plenty of sannyasins where I live so that is cool with me. For me the commune was an incubator, in the sense that once those little chicks hatched it was time to head off into the world at large. Cluck! Cluck!

  45. shantam prem says:

    Lokash where you are based and what nationality you have from birth?

  46. shantam prem says:

    The Osho discourse quoted above by Alok John or for this matter any discourse and the present reality around Him; are these two aspects meeting somehwere, is there a synergy between the two or they are as compatible, as Camel with a Buffallo?

  47. Swami Detective says:

    Alok John’s proposed response to the assessment that the resort management acted improperly is that with Osho life is about living in insecurity. It is my personal viewpoint that this aspect of Osho’s vision concerns the removal of our fixed beliefs about ourselves and the world around us – in other words, to live more and more in a state of not-knowing rather than in a state of falsely believing. If it is that to live in a state of physical insecurity is an integral part of Osho’s vision, and the resort is acting in accordance with that, then I think that it would be nice to know. The official line is that the resort has the utmost regard for the physical well-being of visitors. If they do not because they hold onto a disturbing and false interpretation of Osho, then please inform the sannyas community, and the world at large. To put out an official line and to secretly and knowingly act otherwise is both hyprocritical and unethical. Of course if the conduct which it is argued was not in the best interest of resort visitors was inadvertent rather than intentional, then what is required is an honest self-appraisal. What we have instead is blind reaction to anything that appears to be criticising the resort authorities. Are the resort authorities beyond reproach on all managerial matters, not to mention matters of spirit (of which they have absolutely no authority over)? Alok John, unless you are a hypocrite, you would not lock your door during your stay in Pune.

  48. Fresch says:

    Swami Detective’s dream is to be Amrito. Just see you are not creating bad karma, and end up as his dog next life.

  49. Swami Detective says:

    Fresch you have made a worthy insight. Though we here are engaged in intellectual dialogue, the implication of the veracity of certain positions is not an idle matter. If I am indeed acting out of maliciousness and unconsciousness, then I agree with you entirely. Woof Woof Woof!!! Oops I just peed on Amrito’s leg!!! If however the resort management are acting in ways that show a reckless (or wilful) disregard to visitors of the resort, then the karmic burden shall be worn by those in power. The truth is not both ways, and I am a betting swami. If you are sincere in your attack on me, then you are a betting ma. You will be travelling with Amrito into your next life.

    There is a section in the Indian Penal Code that the police could have charged the management of the German Bakery with. They were repeatedly warned about the possibility of an imminent attack, and of the appropriate measures to be taken to reduce the risk. Presumably one of those measures is to do with sensible practical steps to be taken when an unclaimed bag is identified. The haphazard approach actually taken clearly demonstrated a lacking in this regard. The Pune police have to date decided not to pursue charges for this negligence. Though the Osho resort was spared from an attack, the contact of management at the resort in this regard is in my opinion also similarly negligent.

    Fresch, if you did indeed see Swami Headley at the German Bakery, then the women that you noticed was with him would be of interest to any credible investigator.

  50. shantam prem says:

    ABhay /Swami Detective,
    May be we are looking at different sides. You are concerned about the physical aspect, before it was some water contamination and now it is the security.
    And about both these points, i have no doubt about the professional and pragmatic approach of the big boss and “his” team.

    in my opinion, As far as matter of heart, emotions and the world of mysticism is concerned, they have the lowest score.
    Orthopedic surgeon wants to stitch the feelings too.
    The result is Osho´s poetic side of the work has taken a shape of genitally mutilated female.

  51. Swami Detective says:

    And if an Islamic extremist blew up your beloved Masters samadhi, or perhaps just your latest Western girlfriend?

  52. Fresch says:

    If you are acting out from a compassionate heart, you will have nothing to fear about your next life:) and maybe end up dancing salsa with Amrito already in this life.

    I am not sure if the guy I was talking with was really Headley, of course I might have dreamed it. But he surely acted in odd way, so I got interested if someone else happened to have any longer talk with him. There is nothing more to my story, so I do not think any police would be interested in it.

    “intellectual dialogue”…hahhaaa….you are being cute detective.I would not mind travelling with Amrito in this life. Perhaps I ask him when is he coming out from pune next time.

    Why are you planning this take over of the resort so passionately? You have plenty of all kind of sanyas places in India to get involved with. And what would happen if you were on charge of the resort? What is your master plan?

  53. Swami Detective says:

    Fresch, my name is Swami Detective not Swami PowerTripper, and I am a professional, hence flirting will not get you anywhere.

    For some reason the following disappeared into the void earlier today.

    Yes it is beautiful to say sweet things and grow flowers, and I hope Fresch’s intuition for the future is right. However to offer an honest appraisal of the happenings at the resort should not be automatically condemned to the realm of negativity and criticism. If you wish to build a garden like in Fresch’s vision, you cannot do so without the clarity that is courageous enough to challenge the status quo that may be both powerful and wrong. In general the resort authorities also believe they are doing grand actions, and views in a negative light any viewpoint that is either different or seeks to apparently criticise them. An honest self-appraisal that includes understanding the consequences of your actions (or inaction as the case may be), and taking responsibility for that, is missing. If you for example disagree that to not bring to the attention of resort visitors the bakery bombing was a deeply flawed decision, then why not entertain your thoughts here. Instead we have that assessment condemned outright as being in the realm of the negative. It is in the realm of the search for the truth in this mundane world. The flowers Fresch speaks of are also in the mundane world. It is ironic that in this regard Osho fits into the realm of ruthless honesty at all cost more than any other Master that has past. Why did you not walk away from him when he condemned so many aspects of society? Was his persistent appraisal of paedophilia in the priest-hood not spot on? Is the pattern of criticising the honest search for truth in part an unwillingness to acknowledge an understanding your own dark secrets?

  54. shantam prem says:

    And if an Islamic extremist blew up your beloved Masters samadhi, or perhaps just your latest Western girlfriend?

    I can bet Abhay, Islamic terrorist will never choose Koregaon Park again. It is no more a soft target, whereas hundred thousands of nooks and corners in India are totally unprotected for these Devils to leave some bag with explosives.
    So if some western people are afraid to go to Pune for this reason, they can drop the fear, whereas they should take extra care on those places which are not hit yet.

    I can bet Abhay, Islamic terrorist will never choose Koregaon Park again. It is no more a soft target, whereas hundred thousands of nooks and corners in India are totally unprotected for these devils to leave some bag with explosives.
    So if some western people are afraid to go to Pune for this reason, they can drop the fear, whereas they should take extra care on those places which are not hit yet.

    Just got a nice quotation


  55. Fresch says:

    Shantam, your quotation is great, thank you. Beatyful.

  56. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem: Lokash where you are based and what nationality you have from birth?
    That is LokEsh not kAsh, although I could do with some at the moment.
    I live on the Spanish Island of Ibiza in the western Mediterranean. I was born in 1951 in the north of Scotland.
    I am among other things a novelist. My Facebook name and working name is Luke Mitchell.
    I’d be interested to hear a little about yourself if you care to offer it.
    Here is a link to an Amazon page that reviews one of my books. Just in case you are interested.

  57. Swami Detective says:

    Shantam, repeating errors does not make them true. Unfortunately it may on the other hand make them more erroneous.

    Swami Detective

  58. Swami Detective says:

    Fresch, my name is Swami Detective not Swami PowerTripper, and I hope your flirtatious nature has better luck with Swami Amrito or Swami Headley than it does on me.

  59. Swami Detective says:

    Lokesh, if I see someone doing what I consider to be a bad thing….let’s say they are raping or murdering or torturing someone….I am interested in knowing how to reply in an inspiring rather than dissenting way. Of course I have never heard Osho ‘dissent’ about anything or anyone.

  60. Fresch says:

    You can interpret my writing with whatever projection you happen to have in your “intelligent” mind at any giving moment. It is you saying “flirtatious” and you saying “PowerTripper”, so are you on a power trip trying to flirt with me?


  61. Swami Detective says:

    Fresch, repeating errors does not make them true. Unfortunately it may on the other hand make them more erroneous.

  62. Fresch says:

    Lokesh, aren’t you afraid that some of these CIA agents or other fanatics here will not bomb your face book account in the air? Ask Detective Cute to protect you at least. he does it with full ha…I mean heart.

  63. Fresch says:

    I thank my secratary for corrections. You can borrow her any time.

  64. shantam prem says:

    Thanks for sharing your interesting Bio.
    At Amazon, people have given nice reviews about your novel, “Mind Bomb”, i will try to get one.
    in case, you are willing to share a signatured copy for this sannyasnews group, i think Mr.Detective should read this first.

    May be now i can explain my aversion towards the management people at 17, Koregaon Park with another example.
    They have turned “Ibiza” into “Kerala.”

    Ok, Keeping in mind Indian sensibilities, some correction was needed. His people cannot operate on that high pitch of Osho´s provocativeness.
    If Ibiza was bit too far away than it should have some flavour of Goa, but to turn into some private Auervedic resort property owned and operated by some individuals has proved counter productive and has derailed Osho´s reputation too.

  65. Fresch says:

    And Shantam, can you let go of your hurt with me and be my friend again? Or are you still sulking?

  66. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem: you say….and has derailed Osho´s reputation too.
    Osho’s reputation….you must be joking. I think it is safe to say that it was Osho himself who did the most proficient job of derailing his reputation. It was he himself who said that he would endeavour to destroy everyone’s preconceived notions of how an enlightened man might behave. For once he was not joking and he succeeded spectacularly in his endeavour.
    Unlike, say for example, Ramana Maharshi, whose life was impeccable, Osho’s circus was a shambles to the extent that it brought in to question wether it was possible for an enlightened man to become unenlightened. In my opinion this was absolutely brilliant.
    In the early days, sannyas was in essence a movement of rebellion. Hence people like myself were attracted to Osho. He himself has said that when he left the body the priests and those who were too afraid to come close to him while alive would move in. He certainly had the sagitarian talent of seeing what was to come, because that is exactly what has happened.
    It is always good in life to try and maintain an expansive world view. That way one does not get hung up with the small potatoes. All this bickering about this and that is child’s play. Osho taught those close to him the dangers of becoming serious. Why? Because seriousness is the shadow of the ego. Only a fool could take what is going on in the Osho resort seriously.

  67. Lokesh says:

    Swami Detective, you say,, if I see someone doing what I consider to be a bad thing….let’s say they are raping or murdering or torturing someone….I am interested in knowing how to reply in an inspiring rather than dissenting way

    SD Quite obviously you have never been present when a human being was raped, tortured or murdered, or else your question would not arise.
    I can assure you that if it happens that you one day find yourself in such a situation you will know exactly what it is that most be done. There is absolutely no reason to be concerned about such things. Let your mind rest in regards to such matters.

  68. shantam prem says:

    Oh Dear fresch…how come you think i am still sulking about the hurt in one of the previous posts. May be i forgot to give any acknowledgement sign to your reconciliatory post.

    Friend is a state of being, As Maitarya is to Buddhahood. Friend is a friend always a friend even when sauces of hate, misunderstanding and enviousness make the whiteness of white robes, a bit gloomy, but than, for what we have Osho, the manufacturer of “Ariel Dynamic.”

    And friendship between Man and woman without the possibility of dating is as dry as the evening meeting without heart warming Osho songs. Is this not so my friend!

  69. shantam prem says:

    He himself has said that when he left the body the priests and those who were too afraid to come close to him while alive would move in.He certainly had the sagitarian talent of seeing what was to come, because that is exactly what has happened.

    The priests will be born out of the first generation devotees is inconceivable and that too the people who were giving all the vibes of coming closer and closer and closer.

    People who were accepting Him as He was, must show the inner conviction to project Him and His work after His death as It was, rather turning him into J. Krishnamurti.

    I can give you an example. There are thousands of beaches (sects, cults) all over the world and many spectacular beaches(ashrams, mystical traditions) in India.

    Osho took the wrath of the whole country and the world by introducing beach and Bikini culture into this rigid environment.
    Our work is to protect the uniqueness of His work and also to take notice that neither we change our line of action because of outer social pressure and also to protect its sanctity by checking the weeds out, because with beach and Bikini comes drug and flesh trade too.
    People who have inherited His work must have the conviction to continue in the same line of cutting edge social engineering.
    If they cannot stand with Osho in His totality in my opinion they are derailing the reputation of Osho. When Mafia boss son becomes a police constable, that is a shame. rest can do what so ever.

  70. shantam prem says:

    “Friendship isn’t a big thing – its a million little things.”

    It is true lokesh, Only a fool could take what is going on in the Osho resort seriously.

    But why an OSho Ashram took the shape of Osho Resort, how and for what reasons this change was done is a matter of serious study.

    i understand nothing lasts forever. From menstruation to menopause, from spring to autumn is a natural process.
    But when a healthy women in mid thirties goes to doctor and tells, ” i was not with man for months and i am not getting period too, will it not be a serious medical issue?”
    Yet..”in jokes Doctor can reply…what a blessing Ms.
    Now you don´t need to worry about contraceptives. Laugh your way to the mingeling sites.”

  71. Anand says:

    Yes I remember a Scottish Swami Lokesh from Pune 1. He got into some serious trouble with the law. Welcome back!

  72. Prem Jashan says:

    Amano, Thank you for telling pramod, sahajand ,bodhi taru ,sadhana ,devender, zareen WHO THEY ARE. I have come across some people who thinks their way is the only way.. They would even start teaching Osho on enlightenment , if he happens to come infront of them. But when I tell them WHO THEY ARE looking eye to eye, they started to realise the reality. It did not happen first time, but it worked over the time as I reminded them WHo THEY ARE on every occassion they crossed their limits.

  73. Anand says:

    Prem Jashan, not sure what you say is true. Some facts: Sahajanand left many years ago from Pune, maybe ten? Bodhi Taru same thing. Devender is Devendra.So you must talk about a situation before 2000. Pramod does not live in the resort, always has been outside in NY or London.

  74. Anand says:

    Prem Jashan, not sure what you say is true. Some facts: Sahajanand left many years ago from Pune, maybe ten? Bodhi Taru same thing. Devender is Devendra.So you must talk about a situation before 2000. Pramod does not live in the resort, always has been outside in NY or London.

  75. Lokesh says:

    Just like Osho it would appear that some will remember me for my notority. Sad but true, Boo hoo hoo hoo.

  76. Fresch says:

    Anand and prem jashan, you are just saying names, but this is not yet first class gossiping…what about them?

  77. Fresch says:

    Information of Lokesh was interesting, altough…

  78. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem. Our work is to protect the uniqueness of His work.
    Well you certainly have your work cut out for you. Work was a bit of a dirty word when the old man was alive. Work was once worship, I recall.
    Perhaps you could enlighten me by describing what it is you suppose Osho’s work to be.

  79. Fresch says:

    What century you are on Lokesh? Did you get lost? Or self indulged, self-centred. Your friends did your book reviews, didn’t they?

    What is it that you want from Shantam?

  80. Fresch says:

    where is oshobob, so that we can get some clarity to this?

  81. Lokesh says:

    Clarity is definitely something that there is a short supply of on this blog.
    Fresch you ask….What is it that you want from Shantam?

    I asked…Perhaps you could enlighten me by describing what it is you suppose Osho’s work to be.

    What is so difficult to understand about that? And what is it that provokes such an unintelligent response on your part?
    Personally I’m not interested in the answer to the second question, but you might want to answer it for yourself.

    It would seem SP is not too clear about the nature of Osho’s work. Lots of rhetoric with very little in the way of definition.
    Earlier SP was going on about people derailing Osho’s reputation. This is absurd. Osho was not in the least bit concerned about his reputation while in the body, yet now his so-called followers believe it is their duty to safeguard it.

    Listen to what you have to sat for yourself, Fresch…..What century you are on Lokesh? Did you get lost? Or self indulged, self-centred. Your friends did your book reviews, didn’t they?
    This is kid’s stuff.

  82. Fresch says:

    Lokesh, it might be kid stuff, but I am concerned with my friends, because I care for them, and I happen to care for SP (even not available for a date how ever charming he is:)…) SP has a very big heart, but sometimes he is kind of romantic…

    for you, where is your heart, or at least innocence? Did you loose it, got cynical? I do not find SP rhetoric, but sometimes nostalgic or romantic about sanyas. However, SP is missing heart with the resort stuff, which is very well justified longing for many of us. So, what is it that you want from him? What do you want from sanyas? I do not know if I can really feel you. I think you like him, but there is something unclear about this…

  83. Lokesh says:

    I don’t want anything from SP, other than what I asked for. Really, no big deal.
    I could write a book based on your questions. Rather than do that I will study your response and see if I can come up with something a little more condensed.

    I have led an extremely intense life at times. I believe my innocence was lost in the abrasive effects produced by some of those intense experiences. Yet, after all is said and done, there remains something innocent about me, something childlike as opposed to childish. We all lose our innocence in life, or at least it seems that way to me, and I see it that is part of our process to regain that lost innocence as we age. That is why little children and elderly people share something in common that is fundamental to there being.

    I am a Scotsman. Scots are by nature cynical and sceptical. That is part and parcel of being Scottish and it also happens to be fun. That is why those most Scottish of characteristics are often tempered by a healthy sense of humour. Something the Scots are famous for.

    After spending six years in Poona one, I went through a process of disillusionment with the movement. It was in !982 that the realization of what my contact with Osho had done for me as an individual came to me. This happened through my contact with another master. Osho once told me that if he didn’t finish the job he would send me to someone else who would. Tears come to my eyes as I recall this….it seems too that I am. like SP, a wee bit nostalgic and romantic when it comes to such matters. So, to bring this to a conclussion, I don’t wish anything from sannyas other than perhaps a little company from like-minded souls. it really is as simple as that.

  84. Lokesh says:

    Change 1982….to 1992….how time zooms.

  85. shantam prem says:

    fresch, thanks for shortening my name, Schatz!!
    and defending me in my absence, for this one needs like minded and like hearted people.
    What Lokesh calls, company of like minded souls.

    And it was a destiny or the vibes of Pune(Pune means blessed, holy, sacred, divine gift etc.) that through Osho´s loving presence, it became a Magnetic source for such like minded souls, who were educated and disillusioned from the established religious brands and the conservative ways of love, sex and marriage.
    Is the world gone barren from such souls or existence is providing I Pod, I pad and I Tampons to quench the thirst of such souls.
    And Beautiful Jayesh has even added air conditioned pyramid, swimming pool and other gizmo’s…..but seems like Magnetic source has got rust…

    I am not attached with the past and amazingly this past is not even 25 years, what to say about 2000 or 2500 years old,
    Let 17, Koregaon Park attracts again such souls who share their heart through their sweat in Dynamic or in the bed, To be attractive to such souls, i care a shit whether it is called Ashram or resort or brothel.

    Even today, i have not put my feet at Osho´s podium, what to say about walking with shoes on that place.
    Am i fanatic, am i nostalgic, am i in love with green marble…No my friends.. i am willing to pee on that place if someone tells me it will bring the spring of energy back at the garden of Osho´s place.
    Millions of souls can get enriched in their journey of the heart and the beyond, just one needs to take the wraps away, the wraps created by the arche type British Irish mind.

  86. prem bubbie says:

    If an asteroid were to hit earth, as they have done so in the past and wipe out most living things, including us, or a super volcano were to erupt as it has in the past and will in the future, and does the same– who are you people going to blame? Just live life and stop the blame game/head trip!! Most of you here can’t do even that- to busy trying to prove your worth to others– what a sad lot of impostors. As for Karma– a bunch of bullshit!!! What supreme being is there judging others and turning someone into a dog or whatever in their next life? Fresch– stop being a christian with your “god” notion, or maybe is it hindu/ tibetan buddhist with your relic reincarnation ideas!!!

  87. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, you have mentioned that you are a novelist.
    I am sure you know that to create certain vibes through words, one needs to understand the context and the feelings surrounding the subject.
    When i used the phrase, something like reputation of Osho, cann´t you see that i am using the word reputation not in the usual sense, may be it is better for you, if i write they have even degraded the notoriety of Osho by creating such middle class daily routine around him.
    And i again repeat the example that if a son of a Mafia boss becomes a police soldier, it is a black spot on the reputation of the boss, the way son of the Hamas founder changed the pants, first he became Christian and than the double crossed detective of Israel.

    In life, there is nothing good or bad, main thing is to play one´s role with dignity, convictions and self esteem. When half cooked chickens want to be boiled like potatoes, neither they are sold as meat nor veggies.
    In such situations, result is that beggars sit before the restaurant to get the fresh left over, and with a Little make over sell this stugh again on the road side stalls.
    May be this does not happen in Scotland, but every day scene in India.
    One can see all the gentleman and ladies gathering material during their three months stay and selling it from Ibiza to Hawaii, all the stop overs in between from Russia to Ukraine.

  88. shantam prem says:

    Just minutes ago, i have read the news and it shows how India, the land of Osho is marching forward where as the bosses of the resort still instruct the visiting participants to dress “properly” to respect the culture of the host country.

    PTI, Mar 23, 2010, 08.21pm IST


    Tags:Supreme Court|
    NEW DELHI: In an observation that will cheer votaries of pre-marital sex and live-in-partners, the Supreme Court on Tuesday opined that a man and woman living together without marriage cannot be construed as an offence.

    “When two adult people want to live together what is the offence. Does it amount to an offence? Living together is not an offence. It cannot be an offence,” a three judge bench of Chief Justice K G Balakrishnan, Deepak Verma and B S Chauhan observed.

    The court said even Lord Krishna and Radha lived together according to mythology.

    The apex court said there was no law which prohibits live-in relationship or pre-marital sex.

    The apex court made the observation while reserving its judgement on a special leave petiton filed by noted south Indian actress Khusboo seeking to quash 22 criminal cases filed against her after she allegedly endorsed pre-maritial sex in interviews to various magazines in 2005.

    The judges grilled the counsel for some of the complainants in the case and repeatedly stressed that the perceived immoral activities cannot be branded as offence.

    The argument of the counsel was that her comments allegedly endorsing pre-marital sex would adversely affect the minds of young people leading to decay in moral values and country’s ethos.

    “Please tell us what is the offence and under which section. Living together is a right to life,” the apex court said apparently referring to Article 21 which granted right to life and liberty as a Fundamental Right.

    The apex court further said the views expressed by Khusboo were personal.

    “How does it concern you? We are not bothered. At the most it is a personal view. How is it an offence? Under which provision of the law?” the bench asked the counsel.

    The apex court further asked the complainants to produce evidence to show if any girls eloped from their homes after the said interview.

    “How many homes have been affected can you tell us,” the bench asked while enquiring whether the complainants had daughters. When the response was in the negative, they shot back, “Then, how are you adversely affected?”

    Khusboo had approached the apex court after the Madrash High Court in 2008 dismissed her plea for quashing the criminal cases filed against her throughout Tamil Nadu.

  89. Anand says:

    No Lokesh I also remember you had a nice (I think German girlfriend) at that time and you were a very pleasant easy going fellow with a moustache…..

  90. Lokesh says:

    Anand, you have a good memory. I no longer have a moustache, or hair for that matter, but I am still with the same girlfriend. Just about to take her to the airport so must go.
    I wonder which Anand you are.

  91. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem: I am sure you know that to create certain vibes through words, one needs to understand the context and the feelings surrounding the subject.
    Yes, well I like to believe that I know how to do that. I also see how manipulative words can be. How attached to name and form the mind is. A few words can make someone feel happy or angry.
    What I observe about your writing is that you have not learnt that less is more. You often have a good point to make but it gets lost in your somewhat excitable and flowery language and metaphors.
    As a writer one has also to learn how to integrate objective criticism. A thick skin can come in handy during this particular process.

  92. Fresch says:

    You are getting boring…would have been more exciting with enemies, Christians, Hindu fanatics, criminals, CIA-agents…what to discuss with friends, who all agree.? Loveosholoveosho…oshosaioshosaid….I change the forum soon.
    well, you Lokesh have some potential with that teacher attitude

  93. Are wah Beta says:

    Hallo , shantam prem
    Your story with tooth pricks on Mar 21, 2010 at 11:11 I dont know if it is True But I like it and is very Beautiful

  94. Fresch says:

    Also, Abhay the Cute hopefully does not disappear. You still haven’t given any master plan, only complaints ???

  95. Lokesh says:

    Prem Bubbie, you say: As for Karma– a bunch of bullshit!!! What supreme being is there judging others and turning someone into a dog or whatever in their next life?
    Your statement betrays your superficial take on the nature of the karmic process. There is no supreme being involved in the workings of karma. It is a purely mechanical process. You throw a pebble in a pond and the ripples will eventually return to the spot where the pebble entered the water. That is a simplified version and when discussing karma it is best to keep it simple. Lord Buddha is reported to have said that karma is one of the four imponderables. Please don’t ask what the other three are because I don’t know.
    Ultimately, if viewed from the perspective of advaita vedanta, karma does not exist but, going by your provacative languge it is obvious that you do not really understand that.
    How could I make such a judgement? You are justified in asking and therefore I will explain. Your words illustrate that you are in need of an emotional reaction. You desire this because there is something inside of you that feeds on the energy produced by creating an emotional reaction. If you had reached a point in your inner development where you really did understand that karma does not exist you would also have come to understand the nature of what you are doing and stop constantly trying to provoke others. Such is the nature of karma and right now this is your karma and you will not be able to escape from it by denying its existance.

  96. shantam prem says:

    There is nothing to discuss but the longing to express the wish,” Change of politics and policies if not the people at OSHO´S Black House in Krishna House-17, Koregaon Park, Pune” point

  97. Lokesh says:

    Fresch, you say, you Lokesh have some potential with that teacher attitude.
    Do you really think so? Or is it a case of sarcasm being the lowest form of wit? I don’t know you and it is therefore hard to guage the meaning carried in your words.
    Teacher attitude. An attitude is something that develops from a habitual way of doing something. Attitude implies that there is something unconscious at play. I am aware that I have certain understandings to share and hopefully help those I meet along the way. I am also open to learning from others knowing that I am a long way from knowing it all….even though it might appear to you that I have an answer for everything. Let me assure you, I don’t.

  98. shantam prem says:

    Dear Editor,
    Because of spam protection in your computer, mails from my IP address are not delivered.
    Send me a mail and i reply in return with the Master plan-2015, the purpose of which is to create the environment for ” 10 times more people participating at Pune. 10, 000 people doing Mystic Rose@ half the price of today´s rates.”

    People want to listen the solutions not the diagnostic blah blah, therefore the remedial article needs to have a new thread.

    PS- To chalk such a simple plan, one does not need the health care reform team of President Obama.
    Though to implement my Master´s plan is much more arduous. There is no democracy, no people´s movement. Only four hands, two invisible hands of existance and two hands of…….

  99. Swami Detective says:

    Lokesh is a self-declared rebel, yet objects to writing constructive criticism on SannyasNews. When I pointed out that criticism can indeed be constructive and not only destructive, Lokesh replied with a little sermon. The preacher misses the question, what to say of the answer to it.

  100. Fresch says:

    You are helpping others, Lokesh…..hahhhhaaaahhaaaa
    help your self, please

  101. Fresch says:

    SP; The best vision until now, I do support and will participate in mystic rose for 10 000 people. yes. Any time, any place.

  102. Swami Detective says:

    Shantam, you are sweet and insightful, yet for the most part harmless. This is why you are welcome at the resort any time you like.

  103. Swami Detective says:

    Fresch, as my professional name should hint to you, it is my job to lock up the criminals. You are then free to create whatever master plan you like for your own life. Who am I to interfere in your freedom.

  104. Swami Detective says:

    Anand lives parallel lives in parallel universes.

  105. Lokesh says:

    Fresch; You are helpping others, Lokesh…..hahhhhaaaahhaaaa
    help your self, please.

    What…you think that people don’t need help in the world? Open your eyes.
    Yes, I will help myself and one of the best ways I know of doing that is to help others,
    Most of the enlightened people that I have been fortunate enough to meet in my life were, in one form or another, involved in helping their fellow man.
    Take Osho as an example. He sat patiently listening to countless thousands of people’s problems for years because it helped them rise above those problems simply by him lending some moments of his time. From my perspective it sometimes looked like very demanding work .

  106. Lokesh says:

    Swami Detective, you have a sharp mind.

  107. Lokesh says:

    I’d like to thank all of you who participate in this blog for providing me with some great entertainment. The shoulder injury that has been keeping me housebound and spending much more time than usual on the internet is fast healing and duty calls me back to the fun that I call work.
    Maybe catch up with some of you guys further up this long and winding road that we know collectivly as life. Until then I wish you all the best, including you, Swami Detective, careful with that mind of yours and don’t cut yourself with it.
    Vaya con Dios as they say in my neck of the woods.
    Over and out.

  108. shantam prem says:

    Can you tell the story of your disillusionment with Osho movement in 1982, no 1992 and your subsequent visit to some another Master and life afterwards.
    and i was checking at facebook, there are more than 500 people with the same name. Easier is that you check my page.

  109. Fresch says:

    Lokesh, do you want us to be your customers?

    “disillusionment “ I wish you can let go of carrying that cynical shadow, totally useless.
    “Tears come to my eyes as I recall this….” Are you sure, perhaps you are just playing with kiddies here?
    “company from like-minded souls…” Coming here to give some speech, then go to your “work”…..? Why should I give a shit about your writing and selling your book here?
    “Osho’s circus…” aren’t you knowing better than osho what he did with media here? If so, maybe you can tell us your opinion and pr-plan he should have had.
    “brilliant.” In the early days, sannyas was in essence a movement of rebellion. Hence people like myself were attracted to Osho.”
    I can see you’re anti authorothy trip there, by becoming a teacher getting KIND OF more ok with it. However, sound a bit odd here.
    “All this bickering about this and that is child’s play.” I can really see you have lost YOUR child. Where is your fucking play, teacher? Are you not taking your self a bit seriously?
    “Your words illustrate that you are in need of an emotional reaction.” Hahhhhaaaaaa, just write your stories with your computer, do not bother about asking your friends responses/actions/opinions, not to talk about sanyas news….just keep the speeches in your word-perfect! And sit in the cave.
    “Most of the enlightened people that I have been fortunate enough to meet in my life were, in one form or another, involved in helping their fellow man.
” You did not get my point, are you enlightened? It is a very demanding job indeed, so is my secrtary’s work. What to do?

    “it might appear to you that I have an answer for everything. Let me assure you, I don’t.” Really, the last lye.So you did not get it with Osho, even you were there in person…well, I would be cynical too….with my self!

    Swami Supreme Cute, I am interested in YOUR masterplan. Just complaining until now.

    Bobbie; “just live life” yeah, like you in the bush, what a waste. Take some more medicine and do not slap the dog.

    And bobbie, “your relic reincarnation ideas” I happen to know that I have been with Osho before. I knew it the same day I read the book “The God that failed”. I know it now; I came to osho just before he left his body, but it was always about his people for me, from the first second.

  110. Lokesh says:

    Fresch: Have you tried sex or dynamic meditation? Either of those might help your condition. Get well soon. XXX

  111. Fresch says:

    Ok., there you go Lokesh, now you are coming from your heart with a helpful hint for me to try. Thank you for sweetie.

  112. shantam prem says:

    Swami Supreme Cute, I am interested in YOUR masterplan. Just complaining until now…
    I think the above comment is for SP.
    Though At the age of 47 and living hand to mouth in cold Germany and eating all kinds of meat, he is not that “cute” any more, still i am sure you won´t be disappointed.
    and as a matter of disclaimer don´t think i am chasing you…it is like in the long Indian train journeys, man and woman sharing adjacent seats for 36 + hours and so… ignition of some fire, some familiarity makes the journey bit less tiresome.
    As many of us try to walk on the pathless path shown by Osho, it is a natural growth to be able to raise the finger of disobedience, if some rotten and dry stugh is being served in the name of Parsad, the divine sharing.

    Around 12-15 years i have spend at the very basic jobs in the ashram, thinking that people hand picked by Osho..may be mediocre like most of us, but the grace of Master has sprinkled some extra chili in their brains and heart, therefore, they will understand the gravity of the Work assigned by Osho.
    And as it happens in many stories, the assholes, the useless ones prove more credible than the prodigal sons. This is the way, many times mystery works.

    To speak about the Nakedness of the king yet showing the dignity towards him by not reducing it to nudity is not is the way one looks at the leaking roof during rainy seasons.

    And i hope i will be able to do justice, even it is on a theoretical level to initiate the rough draft for the New constitution, one can call for simplicity sake, Master Plan or Osho Agenda 2015, which gives representation to each and every inspiration of His people´s heart.
    If many of us participate in this joint effort, it may become a very creative and joyful adventure, common sannyasins offerings at Osho´s feet.

    PS-some pragmatic idiot can think, where are Osho´s feet?
    they were turn into ashes within one hour of the fire at Burning ghat.
    I think many many times symbolic gestures and symbols are more closer to the truth than just the facts. That is the reason Jesus or Buddha are more alive after thousands of years than in their life time.
    And Our Osho…the man who introduced the concept of Master Disciple to the west, has become the discussion matter of Alive Master, dead Master.

  113. Swami Detective says:

    Fresch, I am considering offering you my services in writing a constitution for the Osho movement. Of course it is a little like the Charter08 that outlines the hope of freedom for the people of China. If you wrote or support Charter08, you could well end up in the least spending the rest of your life in jail (unless of course you are already there). Of course my current employer is only interested in putting religious criminals in jail, and hence I will need some financial sustenance for my basic needs. The other condition is that I require the services of some other people with suitable skill and inclination. Of course the process would require transparency, diverse input from the Osho sannyas community, and submission to this community.

    Of course a constitution sounds like a big thing but is not. It simply makes clear the power dynamics for any collective of people. The power struggles within the Inner-Circle and at the Resort, and elsewhere, come about because the power structure was informal and ill-defined. Even if Osho made it clear to the Inner-Circle how it was to operate, it is also clear that this was not followed. People who are obsessed with power are not interested in a constitution because it defines and therefore limits their endless lust.

  114. shantam prem says:

    This is the core issue, Abhay, the detective.
    People who are obsessed with power and control are not interested in a constitution because it defines and therefore limits their endless lust.

    Even politicians all around the world have learnt or are learning that only with people´s participation, their emotional involvement, things can take a creative shape.

    And here we are dealing with the people, who swear by the meditation and its effect. If these people behave blind in the sense that they think other than them, nobody else has got the vision, it is a sure sign that touch of the living master and his meditation was not more effective than chewngum.

    It is a system failure.

    (One more complaint )

  115. shantam prem says:

    Fresch, this is for your consideration.
    How so ever i try, some flowery language, some metaphor will be there. Law is always very precise but its interpretation; you can see the library of any lawyer.

    Before, one goes into new working Master´s plan.
    Let office bearer of His work take one small step to break the ice.(If the editor thinks so, material below can be a new thread)


    I am not purposing the summit meeting between Chinese Premier and Dalai Lama. These two people are as apart as the Himalayan peaks and the depths of the Pacific Ocean.
    After listening Osho´s flowering talks, i am not asking either for the nations to disappear, boundaries to disappear.
    Jayesh and Neelam, two figure heads of a fractured dream, man and woman, intelligence and intuition, pragmatism and sentiments; both swear by Osho, both follow the same meditation techniques, both sit at seven in the evening in white robe, listening same talks, same jokes and doing Gibberish in the end…
    It is more than ten years, they were sitting side by side in Buddha Hall, can they sit again for a dinner and discuss the life at their respective resorts and the trivia connected with Sannyasins.

    PS- Not to burden the resources of their resorts, Shantam is willing to pay for this dinner at Hotel O, Koregaon Park Pune.
    I have not forgotten, before Inner circle could take the issue of my support as essential worker in 1991, At Neelam´s request Jayesh has given me three food passes of five hundred rupees for two months.
    This example is a case of collective responsibility and resources and individual generosity.

  116. Fresch says:

    I am not into politics in the world or in the world of sanyas, even I have written some stuff here, it does not really interest me.

    Why would I be interested if some totally foreign people are fighting or being friends? it’s their personal problem. Also, even if the resort collapses, sad, but so what.

    Now I can see it even more clearly, just making my own life the way I want and sharing from there will contribute to anything positive in sanyas family ….mystic rose for 10000 sanyasins and osho lovers would be great. even on line

  117. shantam prem says:

    People are interested in their jobs, in their unemployment claims, in their health coverage, in the idea of ten thousand people doing mystic Rose and so on, do all these things grow on the trees.
    Some strangers have to discuss for months and chalk out the plans. When it is done with farsightedness, one can bring the changes like Obama or Manmohan SIngh or Warren Buffets and many others who are using common sense and farsightedness in their sphere of action.
    may be Politics and Policies are the things which separate Human world from Animal kingdom.
    And Osho, the single man wanted to inject the qualities of meditation and compassion into the policy matters, because he felt it will mellow the power hungry mind and usher the humanity into a NEW DAWN.

    Just months before His death, Osho introduced 21 days Mystic Rose meditation dubbed as biggest break through after Gautam Buddha´s Vipassana. If we have the policy makers who think farsightedly and have compassion in their heart, at least every sannyasin of Osho would have tried this gift. But how can, when these marketing executives want to sell it at the highly exuberant price.
    Because it costed them more than 11 billion US Dollers to develop this product after 25 centuries of pain taking research!
    One can just laugh.

  118. Swami Detective says:

    Shantam, I am not the one who is under investigation.

    Swami Detective.

  119. vigyano says:

    A cosy party of Neelam and Jayesh (or v.v.) seems a great idea to me.

    But the starting point is whether you want to worry about the Resort in Pune or not.
    If you want to be happy, better leave it, I think. The second starting point is whether you want to worry about the sannyas world as a whole. I think the answer won’t be very different . It’s not an easy business.

    Both issues don’t play on the personal level of meditation but on the social level of communication, sharing responsibility, hierarchy and conflict solving. In a Master Plan much has to be about that, I think.

    But what is the core of our sorrow? It can’t be, the fact that the “21 handpicked” are running the resort and making money out of Osho’s heritage. In some way they doing a great job.

    If we forget some old wounds or some envy for a while, the repressive style of this crew could be a point of sorrow, but above all, I think, it is the fact that they don’t pay responsibilities neither organize the feedback from those they are working for.

    In such cases people start to talk and to wonder, like we do now. They start to fill in what could be happening behind the screens. This automatically ends up in feelings of hostility or disinterest. Probably a normal bio-social aspect of group forming.

    And there is too much unclear. I.e. Is OIF established in Zurich because of the Swiss bank secrecy? What are the assets of the foundation and who has access to that information? The board members are Michael O’Byrne, D’Arcy O’Byrne, John Andrews, Mukesh Sarda, Klaus Steeg, but what’s going on that they don’t share their info? The same is about John Andrew , Elisabeth Berthoud , Vasant Joshi , Wendy Kress board members of the Osho Spiritual Health Organization also settled in Zurich. And also recently to give an example: What was so important that Jayesh had to leave its crew in a hurry for London, the next morning after the blast, in stead of showing a face at on behaf of the resort?

    In the world of sannyasins the personal happiness of the heart is a central Issue. On the social level the central issue is sharing the advantages and costs. The way the IC behaves, creates inevitably and maybe fully unintentionally the suggestion that only costs are chaired and that some are filling their pockets.

    A diner of Neelam and Jayesh could be a start to break things open.

    Suggestion… Jayesh pays first?

  120. Fresch says:

    Vigyano, you make it sound as if 40 years of meditation and being personally in close contact with osho does not do anything for you. If that is the case again, why bother? One more reason to focus on one self; trusting that meditations works (=these people are sincere) or anyway living the life the way you want (doing everything you can for your self and your friends).

  121. Fresch says:

    I do not want hear about, (except for first class gossiping, which I do love) following matters:

    Follow their every move with paranoia
    all practical and personal fights they have
    why this and this group or group leader is off/on
    were and why they travel as private people
    what building is on/off
    why and which lectures they show…try to see paranoia there
    Foundation in Switzerland sounds like a neutral place and good for taxation.
    I think it’s stupid to have such high rates just because people go somewhere else
    It’s stupid not to take care of your ”old” customers because new ones cost you always more
    It’s stupid not to make a ”market reseach” what people want
    It’s stupid overall not to be customer (=sanyas) orientated

    (They need us all)

    So, shall we continue first class gossipping

  122. vigyano says:

    Fresch: I think I wasn’t clear about this. I don’t’ want to criticise meditation. Meditation never lost it’s strength to free the warm, beauty and love in us. It’s strength is as young and fresh as ever.

    Nevertheless, more seems needed (if you want) to improve the health of the current organisation. Many sannyasins are unhappy or frustrated about it and do we seen any improvement the last decennia? I can be wrong, but sannyasins seem extreme powerless in this.

    Indirectly I tried to put the question: What could be the cause of that? Suggesting that things could be related to each other. Or in other words. As good as we are in meditation on individual level, as bad we seem in this on the social level. (After all groups behave like organisms, so why shouldn’t they “meditate”).

    I guess, that the way out of this 20 year constipation, doesn’t start with all kind of thoughts about who did what wrong or right, about new initiatives, or new schools and sub-schools. I think it starts by taking ourselves serious a group. My thesis is that we don’t. To put it on sharp, we seem addicted to the individual level, our personal awareness etc…

    If we really want a way out of this continuing story, if we really want to stop the rotting from inside out, I think, we have to focus on where we got stuck in this as a group, and to focus at our role in that as such..

    I think that on social level there is “no meditation like communication”. The communication between individual sannyasins is far above average, but for some reason, as a group as a whole we seem asymptotic to the stone age….

    I know, many will say. Don’t bother, just let go, it is your personal issue. Meditate on it, and you will be free. …and they are right, I know they are right.

    My problem is that I experience love as social. It is about communication to me. Communication of warmthe, compassion and vulnerability, but also about the sharing frustration in a serious constructive way. We need both collours make the painting.

    It may feel inconvient but it is happening now…

  123. Fresch says:

    I understand what you mean. Also, many people feel the same.

    However, people freak out not wanting to be part of a cult any more. I know it so incredible well, only organizing anything is really a drag because everybody wants to decide last moment and not be responsible for any minor detail, not even for 30 sec or for 10 euros. Or put any extra effort without any reward. The fanny part of it is that they act differently with other groups; pay more money, pay more attention…and actually get less.. If there are 5 sanyasins in some area they all want to have their own centres, offer groups for other 5 people or sell their books for other 5 people= do THEIR thing and maybe explode some few new people.

    What we do NOT do, is meditate together or organize things together., or even hang out together. I have my friends, you have your friends…it’s endless. It’s not about the resort, it’s about us. Perhaps resort people got fed up with that attitude and just act what we deserve.

  124. Fresch says:

    However, that is past. era of the companies and subcults is over. New things are happening, there is clearly new kind of energy in the air. I am excited to be part of it…

  125. vigyano says:

    Bright and shining…

  126. Fresch says:

    Point is, there are perhaps 50 people in the whole world really making their living running groups. They are 95% from Pune1. So what happens to the thousands (if not tens of thousands) of people doing these fake trainings? Why are they called trainings, if nobody works in that profession afterwards?

    Where and why all these people dissappear?

    Right now only way to participate or meet more (other than your personal friends) other sanyasins is pay for the resort (and you can not be there very long if not in the group) or for a therapy group any other place. And be a customer. Why would anybody do that year after year? You can do it sometimes. So, I am really looking forward to any new ways to meditate and hang out with my fellow travellers. Live life.

  127. shantam prem says:

    Few of the above posts are touching my heart.
    I believe and firmly believe as i have tried to digest Osho, to raise critical questions about doubtful and dubious activities in one´s own church and belief is one of the purest way of further evolution.
    From the very beginning He was teaching doubt instead of belief, and when more and more people will come forward to raise questions about Osho´s legacy, i am sure, this will add more pixels in our hearts and beings, it will surely add more oxygen into the new kind of energy, what Fresch and vigayano are feeling in the air, Bright and shining…
    Future is bright, future is Orange and this time it may be the reality and not just the slogan of a telecom company.

  128. Fresch says:

    Cheer up, i hope you understand I am not criticising people or therapists to do their thing (with centres or trainings pune or elsewhere), even I do not think 2-week massage-training qualifies you to change your secretary work….:)))

    Also, it should be easier for new people to step in. Easier to be connected with other than sanyas people. Easier to be connected with the world. Easier for everybody to do their thing . Easier to stay connected even not being involved in the groups. Easier to feel OFI’s heart:)

    So I strongly think we need to be more creative (including me), to find many ways stay connected, live sanyas life, share experiences with other sanyasins and also outside people. What I am doing is fully supporting my life, but of course more is more. And this i see happening now.

    Shantam prem, Mystic Rose for 100000 buddhas is a brilliant idea! Let’s say for 200,- they would get at least 5000 participants, rest online. That is just wonderful insight. Thank you i need to take a break from here to focus more to do My thing:DDD
    Hugs and Love!

  129. shantam prem says:

    Mystic Rose for 100000 buddhas is a brilliant idea!

    May be every Brilliant idea waits in the womb of time so that the right midwife at the right time comes to bring it out.
    Arrival of open boarderd Europe and Euro, recently Universal health Plan in US; farsighted leaders who have the fingers on the pulse of their people and Brilliant ideas get LIFE for the betterment of all.
    if there are elections in the world of Osho for the organisational chairmanship, i am sure to get more votes than any of the present bosses and also to offer the same Job to more meritorious person even if that person has not contested.

    And one of the main point will be to find the creative, inviting and inspiring ways so that every sannyasin gets the opportunity to do 21 days Mystic Rose at Pune.

    Why it has not happened till now, not even the idea was brought forward, is a matter of contemplation and discussion.

  130. Thank U,for this opportunity that *Osho have provided!
    The *midwife has arrived at least to some of Us and our lives have been entrusted to Her!
    She the *devine devinity is no other then the *Fairysaint,Soror T.the french mystic woaman!
    Please as we put her photos all over the place just as *Osho,the consciousness brought Her to Us,when we found ourselves looking for the mind that were giving Us the slip….sliping into the forest mind,like table phantasya and bathroom dance…!
    *Where From ?
    *Who is Inn?
    *Who are we?
    *Soror Terezinha du Petit Yashu(Jésus!)has come to show Us the way out of this forest floor to a *super–nature before we arrive at the land of “*no-tots” thougth-less-ness!!!
    Thank you Ma amano for such insights!
    Love you all!
    PS_Please conect whenever Osho´s will Us to,with *blog of fairytale:-””look it up in the!

  131. Please when we have finished with each other Try the *fairysaint!
    She´s the *Devine devinity that was sent to help Us out of this “*jungle”that Osho have allowed to grow at this height”with all including the cancelling out the experience of Osho´s pictorial memory of the hightest state of consciousness,or the *samun bonum of all earthlings and perhaps in the sky above!
    So,please lets not allow ourselves do degenerate into unconscious morons,but use this experiences to meditate that maybe all this is Osho´s and
    have been for our benefit and for the benefit of times to come!*Who knows!*Who is In(n?)*Who are we?
    Please in case one needs some laughter and some of Us do,please check the blog and contribute when you´ve been contacted by the *fairysaint.OK?!
    “”by,amritlind and crew!Please look it up in the!
    Osho is our love!
    Make everything to be happy!
    Untill than,