God is not Great: Previous Letter to Author

In 2007 Christopher Hitchins wrote a book called “God is not Great”. Sadly it is still widely read and quoted. In that book was a Chapter on Osho indicating a number of falsehoods. Krishnaprem who was the Press Officer in Pune one at the time of Hitchin’s visit, and met him a number of times in that visit replied to his Chapter on Osho in the telling letter below. Hitchins never replied. Sadly since that time Krishnaprem has died, but his words have even more resonance. One wonders if Hitchins was so far away from the truth where Osho is concerned, how far he may be away from the truth in the rest of his lazy book. (Parmartha: Editor Sannyasnews ).

Christopher Hitchens
I am writing in relation to a particular chapter in your book God is not Great – the chapter entitled There Is No “Eastern” Solution. I wish to point out, more to your publisher than to you – who should be aware of the fabrications and fallacies it contains – of how dishonest this chapter truly is.

Let’s get right down to it.

You say you donned “orange garb” to attend the ashram of a “celebrated guru”, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh “in order to help make a documentary film for the BBC” which, you also say, “did have a standard of fairness and my mandate was to absorb as much as I could.”

I remember your visit well. At that time I was ashram Press Officer. I am also blessed with near-photographic memory recall, and here is what I remember about your visit “to absorb as much as I could”:

I was in the press office with my colleague Vadan when one of the receptionists ushered you in. You informed us the BBC’s Tony Isaacs, whom I had met, had asked you to script a show on us for The World About Us. You certainly weren’t wearing orange.

For the next hour or so, Vadan and I filled you in on ashram activities. By morning tea time, I noticed one of your hands was shaking. I asked if there was something I could get for you.

“I have a little confession to make,” you said. “This is the first time in ten years I haven’t downed a fifth of scotch by this time. What I really need is a drink.”

“Apart from the bar at the Blue Diamond Hotel,” I said, “I doubt if you’ll find a bottle of scotch for miles.”

“Some in my room,” you muttered. “So if you chaps don’t mind, I’ll toddle off now and come back tomorrow.” You held up the literature we’d given you.”Enough homework to keep me busy until then.”

The next day we waited for you, but you didn’t show. The following day either. By the third afternoon it was apparent you weren’t coming back at all. So much for absorbing as much as you could.

Secondly, you say we were urged “to part with all material possessions,” and that this money went to purchasing a “fleet of Rolls-Royce motorcars.” Absolute fabrication. How deeply you delved into the Pune commune is clear from this single statement. Where was the fleet housed on that overcrowded six acres? The only time there was a Rolls-Royce on that property was at the very end of our first stay in Pune when, following an assassination attempt on Osho by a Hindu fundamentalist, we imported a metal detector and an ancient bullet-proof Rolls. The fleet came a lot later, in America.

Next, you talk about the film by Wolfgang Dobrowolny – or Veet Artho as we knew him – that was shot in “secret.” More invention on your part. Laxmi, Osho’s secretary and the Foundation’s managing trustee, fell for Veet Artho’s sweet talk and, despite repeated and vociferous warnings from me and others that it would come back to haunt us, gave him permission to shoot footage of an encounter group in which physical expression was allowed – an initiative of encounter group leader Teertha which Osho immediately instructed be dropped as soon as someone got hurt.

Laxmi’s mandate was, as she put it, that “word (of Osho’s availability in Pune) must reach all the corners of the world” and in her naivety (she’d never been outside India) she thought people would see how liberating it was to free themselves from repressed emotions and traumas and flock to Pune. It came as a shock to her to learn that the majority of people back in the 1970s, when faced with a reflux of suppressed emotion or childhood pain chose, rather than dealing with it, to have another fag and pour another couple of stiff drinks.

By the way, Dobrowolny never owned the rights to the film. They were retained by the Foundation, and the BBC’s use of the footage was illegal.

I also found your insinuation extremely offensive that a “German princeling of the House of Windsor” met a shady end as a result of participating in a therapy group. Vimalkirti, as we knew him, collapsed suddenly one morning, doing his daily martial arts exercise routine on his own, from an aneurysm in the brain – hereditary I gather. He was taken immediately to an intensive care facility at Jehangir Nursing Home in Pune where he died, without recovering consciousness, a few days later. There was nothing suspicious, as you imply. Imagine how his wife, who is still involved with our worldwide community, and his daughter will feel when/if they read what you’ve written. Shame on you.

Finally, I find it odd that of all the supporters of organized religions on the vast Indian spiritual scene, you pick the one man who consistently criticized the religions for the damage they have done – through promoting blind belief, blind faith and generating blind fear – down the ages. Osho’s attacks on Mother Teresa of Calcutta (is that where you got the idea for your book?) and her boss, whom he called “The Polack Pope” are well documented. His series of talks in America so often focused on the dangers of Christian fundamentalism that today they seem prophetic. Among the last series of talks he gave in public, two titles come to mind — Christianity, the Greatest Poison and Zen, the Antidote to All Poisons – as well as a series illustrating where Nietzsche and other atheists missed the boat, God is Dead: Now Zen is the Only Living Truth.

To illustrate your premise that “there is no Eastern solution,” why pick a mystic who, his entire life, through discourses and books, tried to alert mankind to the fact, as you say, that “religion poisons everything.” And why pick one who left his body in 1990? Did he have that big an impact on you, or was it because you couldn’t be bothered updating the “research” – and I use the term facetiously – you pretend to have conducted 30 years ago?

In closing, permit me a footnote. After your completely unprofessional behaviour and lack of integrity in Pune all those years ago I often wondered whether I would have a chance one day to tell the truth about your visit and to expose the shallowness of the effort you put into the documentary for the BBC.

Whether anyone else but you and your publisher read this letter, I am pleased that, at long last, I’ve had an opportunity to say what really happened. It’s comforting to know that even after 30 years, chickens still come home to roost.

Jack Allanach/Krishna Prem
cc: Jonathan Karp, Publisher and Editor-in Chief, TWELVE
cc: Osho International Foundation, Bahnhofstr. 52, 8001 Zürich, Switzerland
cc: Osho International, 80 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10011

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90 Responses to God is not Great: Previous Letter to Author

  1. Swami Detective says:

    Totally original and much needed defence of Osho. Three cheers, and so as not to get entirely stuck in the past, why not mention how the current Blessed Pope has been covering up sexual perversion in the priesthood for decades.

  2. amano says:

    Swami Detective, each and every time i read your posting , i feel sorry for you ….i see inside you so much poisen and garbage………can you please go somewhere to throw it instead of making this website dirty with dirty postings.

    i was not feeling too good, but i took break from writing and was just enjoying and reading other postings which makes lots of sence….but when i read yours , it reflects you……..my dear friend, take a little rest and break and stop calling yourself swami detective…….give your self a good name atleat…….osho never liked in his life police, detectives and other kind of law charcters………i can recomend you better names my friend….well i hope you get my point and take a break for a while……..and come back with little better ideas and little creative writtenings…………

  3. Swami Detective says:

    Amano, you are not my dear friend.

  4. Swami Detective says:

    Amano, I have heeded your fascist rant, and have purged my soul of such ghastly poisons. Your really did see all that darkness in my soul. You are a seer no less than Osho himself. Now I have only sacred flowers in my heart, and I wish to offer this creation as a hopeful and tentative apology.

    I would like to know the cost of a rarely used 5-star ‘sweet’ near the Mumbai international airport. I would also like to know how often it is used, by whom, and for what purpose.

    In the attempt by Yogendra and Pramod (and friends) to trademark everything “Osho”, they omitted the fact that Osho was a famous historic figure. To an outside observer who is aware of trademark laws, it is obvious that you cannot trademark “Osho” because he is a famous historic figure. The attainment of trademarks came about entirely because of this glaring omission. I assume that Pramod and Yogendra (and friends) are intelligent enough to know that Osho is a famous historic figure, and therefore cannot be trademarked. I therefore assume that this was an intentional omission, and therefore a legal transgression under US law.

    I would like to know the total cost of the US trademark lawyers used by OIF, both in forming the trademarks under clear legal transgression, and in fighting a legal battle to retain these falsely attained trademarks.

    Regarding the Bakery Blast, it is a troubling tale of twists and turns. The protection of the resort in case of further terrorist threats immediately after the blast was indeed well taken care of under the resorts newly devised security Master plan, as tirelessly repeated by Sadhana. Here it is in short.

    Dhyanesh, the head of security, meditates for an hour or so. I can only suppose that he saw everything happening through his minds eye, and was meditating to gain deeper insight into a profoundly wise response.

    Amrito, vice-chair of the Inner-Circle, gets drunk at the resort disco, and is still showing the side-effects at 11 the next morning.

    Jayesh, chair of the Inner-Circle jumps on the first plane out of the country.

    Inner-Circle Sudheer bans for a year the person who tries to inform the disco goers about the Bakery Blast – I suppose that includes the Doc.

    Inner-Circle Garimo applies the multiversities psychotherapeutic astuteness in denouncing all constructive action as being either due to shock or (Dutch) national conditioning.

    The rest of the multiversity sub-gurus (and potential Inner-Circle adherents) threw their ample egos behind the masterfully crafted and lightning sharp quick response team’s quick and honourable response.

    I have yet to here a reply that makes clear that the above scenario is not how it was. This being the case, I can only assume that the Inner-Circle and Resort management have demonstrated gross incompetence in the most serious of circumstances.

    Amano, please put your ignorant and fascist mind aside, and provide a loving and intelligent response to my above creative and compassionate offering.

    Krishna Prem, since you have such a great memory and have the dubious honour of writing the above post, please apply your talents to issues that are relevant and pertinent. If you protect Osho from slander with your wisdom than Osho becomes wiser, and so do you. You are on a trip, and Parmartha the Chief is on the same one. Also, why did it take you all these years to come out and tell such an important truth? Is Hutcho the only drunkard that has passed through the holy gates?

    LOL (Love of Law)
    Swami Detective.

  5. Anand says:

    Krishna Prem, the former press officer in Pune 1 died a few years back in Australia in a very moving departure.

  6. amano says:

    Detective,,,,,,i see so much love and turth in your last posting…….it changed my mind about you …….i am sorry for my reaction earlier….you have much more in your plate than i thought……….i am shocked about guy who was banned by sudheer over german backery……..my heart goes out for that guy first…….other stories you wrote are very intresting as well , but i know most of stuff and i was failed to change those osho enemies during my time in pune………perheps i did not try enough………i am upset sometimes about myself and people like you who are posting on websites against inner circle and no body is able to see that these posting are not much of help to sannyas world…….you tell me please , has our effort helped anyway , has anyone start to work diffrently in inner circle after reading our posting……
    has anyone ever come forward and said sorry to osho lovers who are hurt each and every moment by politics in 17 koregaon park……so much has been said and heard about inner circle all over globe on so many website, .
    my point here is detective , after all our efforts , suitation has not changed inside commune………every day , someone gets banned, every day someone gets hurt badly……just answer me one honest inquery i have ……..do you see any day that everything is going to be normal in resort for osho sannyasins.? do you see any day that polits will stop and real osho energy will return to that place…..?

  7. amano says:

    detective, feel free to crtisize me and give opinion about my posting…..i will not take it personally……….nothing personal here………..every thing belong to everybody…….why to be poor , when we all can rich at the same time

  8. Heraclitus says:

    Alive or dead, Anand, Krishnaprem’s letter from I guess 2007 certainly has resonance and is a brilliant refuting of this drunkard Hutchins.
    I was also in Pune one for the short time he stayed, and we could not believe the crap that he generated at that time also.
    Of course Osho did largely adopt the old eastern tradition of the Master/disciple paradigm. This has many flaws, and I myself would never subject myself to it again, though arguably just to have experienced it as a commune member was no such bad thing in one’s growth, but it is certainly something to grow beyond.

  9. Alok john says:

    It’s “Hitchens”

  10. Swami Detective says:

    Amano, the investigation is ongoing.

    When I read back through the posts it seems that there have been repeated warnings for Resort management and the Inner-Circle to get their act together. Their conduct in regard to the Bakery Blast appears wanting to say the least. How fortunate it is that there was no serious terrorist attempt on the resort that night.

    It cannot be said that it was because the resort is a fortress. It also cannot be said that it was because of a swift response from management. With such strong warnings over the preceding weeks and months of the possibility of an imminent terrorist attack, their conduct appears to be such a serious warning, yet it almost goes unflagged. It is testimony to how entrenched the situation is.

    As mentioned before, the Bakery management could be charged under the Indian Penal Code. From what I have gathered, if there was an attack at the resort, resort management would also find themselves in a similar situation. Yet despite this, there is no response from the Inner-Circle, the resort management, or from the general sannyass community.

    Yes the few that were caught up in the Bakery incident and tried to coordinate with the resort have fortunately not remained silent. It is out of their intelligence to act and their courage to speak up that the truth of managements conduct comes to light. Still, the previous post dries up, and Parmartha posts an old defence of Osho.

    Cannot Osho sannyassins see the scary predicament that is the present, and the ramifications for the future. Is the ongoing harm to sannyasins and visitors alike (that is being documented on SannyasNews) of any importance? The night of the Bakery Blast visitors to the resort were left dangerously exposed to a distinctly possible threat.

    Yes it is great to be an icon of truth blazing through a culture of lies and hypocrisy. This is what many see and are drawn to in Osho. The swimming pool standing as a metaphoric pillar, erect and proud in a sea of sexual repression. The obvious opulence standing in the face of those who adore poverty. The utter individualism that battles against the religion of sentiment. A bastion of truth in a world of ignorance. This is a concept of Osho that is the making of extremist religious ideology. In practical terms it is riddled with lies, and is but a fragment of Osho.

    One also has also to be a little practical. If Osho started his teachings today rather than decades ago, and if he did not take a more stringent approach to security than he did in his early days, he (and his flock) would be pulverised into oblivion in no time at all. Today extremists have more than knives to throw with. Osho sannyassins are living in a dream of what was. Everything you classify Osho as being (whether that be rebellious or contra-legal) is your delusion, unless you classify Osho as only what is. You take my observation as an attack, yet it is a critique of your delusion. The important issues arise here now, and almost all miss the point.

    I question the sincerity of much in defence of Osho. It is typically repetitive and predictable, and therefore has no effect.

    SannyasNews copies the words of a person who has moved on to another body. Osho sannyasins copy the words of a Master that has moved on for eternity. All this to protect the image of Osho that you hold in your dreaming mind.

    Intelligent and insightful defence of Osho is a worthy task. If you feel you do not have the capacity to do so, my suggestion is either to look at what is happening within the Osho sannyassin movement that is destroying his credibility, or alternatively and preferably have a look in yourself.

    I am presenting positions here and inviting intelligent responses. I admit I did not read the introduction to the post and so assumed that it was timely, and written by a living being. I received a response that clarified my mistake, and hence I can move forward in my understanding. This is what I am asking of other people.

    What is the response to the internal issues raised? What is your knowledge, your understanding, and your responsibility in this regard?

  11. amano says:

    swami detective,
    as far as i know indian police and indian law, they are always soft on resort management , No matter how big crimes jayesh and his friends do , they get away with that. This time again they will get away
    it seems indian police is not intrested in stoping crime…….all they care for is little of rupeees.

  12. vigyano says:

    I quite like the approach of Swami Detective. If you want to be in touch about something, including spirituality, it can be a great start to question positions and interests. At the same time Amano puts a nice question: What is changed since, at IC-level?

    To my perception the answer is ugly: “less or nothing!” The case of the trade mark is won, but not because of external comments on the behaviour of the IC and OIF members.

    Meanwhile the OIF seem to run its foundation very well. Successfully exploiting Osho’s words as business property. Smartly avoiding taxes, copyright-debates and sannyasins. Meanwhile focussing on the emerging billion dollar markets of Russia and China.

    Of cause there is the question who owns the words of Osho. But is our discussion really about that? Suppose the OIF was the cosy home to all of us and not exclusively to Jayesh, Amrito, Yogendra, Mukesh and Klaus Steeg? What would be our ideal management concept?

    I can be wrong, but would there be much difference? I think the only absent aspect is somethink like democracy. That could explain why many are missing the feeling of being a part of what is happening now. There is no annual speech and no annual report to read it over. There is no openness about future plans etc..

    But are there Sannyasins who are capable and willing to run this company in an aditional and possible better way?
    I think that the present board is very capable to run the current commercial show. The problem seems that at least a part of them and also a part of the IC seems short in democracy, spirituality and not ot forget security. In some way the current concept needs something like an additional structure, to assist the board and IC in these aspects.

    However the core question seems: Will the OIF-board share their position and status? I think they will. Not because they believe in democracy, but because, after more then 20 years, all sannyasins together know far more bout them than they have to share in democracy.

    As a former strategist, I had to learn that the world isn’t about power, money and all those things that seem so obvious in this. It is about what is said at birthday parties and at the bedside. There the real interest are share ànd (potentially) spread!

    As individual sannyasins we only know a small part of that picture, but together all sannyasins know even more than everything.

    To make things clear, I’m not suggesting to register and share this information on an internet site or something like that. What I say is that the sannyasins together have enough power to enthuse the OIF to introduce and share democracy in the current concept of Osho’s world (i.e. to start from 1 Jan 2011).

    I.e. Friends of Osho but also facilities as Sannyas News could be a partners in such a change. A number of us will perceive it as unethical to forward this aspect in the discussion. I can understand this, but then the question is what is the essential difference with creating power by behaving behind screens? In some way it is about the saying: you need a thief to catch a thief.

    I’m convinced it won’t derail so fast. In some way it rather will bring mutual understanding and by that, improvement to all of us, structurally but also spiritually, a new start and a challenge to live and learn again as one community as a whole.

  13. shantam prem says:

    a new start and a challenge to live and learn again as one community as a whole…..

    This is urgently required..this is the remedy.

    Sometime a simple Asprin brought over the counter do more wonders than all the prescriptions of a London qualified doctor.

    Will the aspirations of the sannyasins will be able to bring the change, will the management will be able to drop the “Pampers” of “Osho´s guidelines” and see the people around them with open eyes is a matter of time.

    Once Osho foundation International rented the property at Zürich, Switzerland. From lower mind prospective it was to use the secrecy of their Banking Laws and with higher mind, one can learn from the most wonderful development of Open democracy in that small, prosper and proud nation.

    And i hope future sannyas leadership who will not have this glorious aura of being in presence of Osho, on His deathbed.

  14. shantam prem says:

    Interesting article in Times of India…

    Sex and the Swami: Has saffron been irredeemably stained?
    Gautam Siddharth, TOI Crest, Mar 13, 2010, 12.51pm IST

    Swami Nityananda’s romp with Tamil actress Ranjitha was caught on tape.

    The priest as transgressive protagonist has been the subject of many books in fiction. But suddenly they seem to have jumped right out of the pages and into real life, blurring boundaries between the profound and the profane. Has saffron been irredeemably stained?

    Sex,” said Henry Miller, “is one of the nine reasons of reincarnation; the other eight are unimportant.” He was paraphrasing an unnamed source from Buddhism, a religion which, not incorrectly, is seen as an offshoot of Hinduism. And it is the Hindu ‘godmen’ – read, fakes or fraudsters – who have for the past week been swathed in infamy for sex and sleaze.

    While one of them, Swami Nityananda of Chennai, was caught having sex with a Tamil actress, the other, going by the laughable moniker of Ichadhari Sant Bhimanand (ichhadhari, literally, means one who merely has to wish for things to happen) was arrested and charged under the Maharashtra Control of Organised Crime Act (MCOCA) for running a prostitution racket. Interestingly, the ‘saint’ has been to jail five times.

    Bhimanand, whose actual name is Shiv Murat Dwivedi, has been filmed doing the ‘naagin (snake-woman ) dance’, seemingly drunk, to the tune of the famous snake song Man doley, mera tan doley. His cronies, writhing in front of a large picture of Shirdi Sai Baba, match him step for step. Check it out on YouTube; a more grotesque and hilarious sight will rarely be seen. And Nityananda’s “disciple”, the actress Ranjitha, has said that her videographed romp with the so-called swami was her “service and offering to him”. She said she offered it like she offered other services: bringing Nityananda food and giving him a massage. She seemed to see nothing wrong in what she was doing.

    What’s not okay is this: the two outlaws – one an obnoxious fraud and the other a spiritual swami with a more than apparent empty core – are not alone; there have been a number of deviants calling themselves sadhus and sanyasis, all fighting dark allegations in various courts of law across the country for crimes like rape and murder. So how does one square up spirituality and sex, or, for that matter, spirituality and crime?

    Whatever the connection between spirituality and sex, there’s of course no link between spirituality and crime – notwithstanding the number of supposedly significant Hindu religious leaders fighting legal battles. Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham’s Swami Jayendra Saraswati, Dera Sacha Sauda’s Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh, and Asaram Bapu in Gujarat being the most glaring examples. Has their karma caught up with them? Or have they been framed? The jury is still out.

    But, to focus on sex and spirituality, ever since Osho Rajneesh’s extraordinary success in teaching that sex could be transcended only through experience and not through its renunciation, many “swamis” appear to have rampantly and readily misunderstood what he said. Rajneesh’s take on sex – he wrote the controversial book Sambhog se Samadhi (From Sex to Superconsciousness) – was backed by a cogently argued philosophy.

    According to him, forced celibacy was not just wrong, it was damaging to the soul of man. It was against man’s natural instincts and his essential nature. Celibacy as a vow had to be voluntary, and under the guidance of a capable preceptor. Otherwise there was every possibility of the act of self-mortification destroying the initiate. Going by Rajneesh’s dictum, someone like Nityanand was ill-prepared for a life of complete detachment.

    But there is a need to first understand the monastic order in Hinduism and its provenance. Hinduism borrowed the concept of monasteries – and its peculiar kind of celibacy – from Buddhism. This was because Buddhism had grown to become one massive umbrella that held vast swathes of the Indian subcontinent in near-total control by the 8th century. When Adi Shankaracharya arrived on the scene to take Sanatan Dharma out of the morass, he selected some of the attributes of Buddhism to reinvent Hinduism. It was also his own tribute to the success of Buddhism.

    In other words, there was no concept of renunciation in Hinduism until Shankara arrived, at least not in any organised sort of way. The best that exists in Sanatani philosophy on the subject is Patanjali’s statement, ‘Swa-ang jugupsa, parai asansargah’. It means that with increasing spiritual insights, with greater realisation, with the mind’s constant attachment with truth, there develops apathy for the physical body, and it loses its physical affiliation with others. This is considered a high state of spiritual being, and that is what has made celibacy the plinth of sanyas. Before Shankara, Indian rishis were known to have families and children. Shankara was merely following the “market leader” of the time, Buddhism, and in the process institutionalised renunciation to help Hinduism survive the crisis it was in because of Buddhism.

    What’s truly lamentable about those donning saffron but flouting the principles they erroneously pledged to uphold – including celibacy – is that they have forgotten the deep Sanatani value that their raiment represents.

    Interestingly, in this as well, in the idea of a single-colour garment to represent a monastic order, the competitive interplay between Buddhism and Hinduism is evident. The Buddha had selected yellow as the colour of renunciation; yellow being the shade of falling leaves at the end of the Indian winter. Yellow signified a bhikshu’s final departure from the world of desires.

    Shankara, too, wanted to give the Sanatani monastic order he had created a mark of distinction out of the cultural necessity to successfully compete with Buddhism. He found the colour saffron – a bright orange – from the sacrificial fire. He said anyone who wears this robe must imagine himself sitting on ‘chitaa’ or the funerary pyre, burning all his past samskaras and making sure that no new ones are added. For it was only after all the samskaras were burnt that vairagya or dispassion could develop, and with it the spiritual insights for which one had made the conscious decision to become a sadhu or a sanyasi.

    It is obvious that none of this terribly excites the likes of the Ichadharis and Nityanandas. But it would only be fair to pose that, in the process, our true saints must not invite derision or ridicule. It would be folly to tar all the saffron-robed monks with the same brush. Instead, what is needed is more discernment among people in choosing their preceptor – that is, if they think they need one in the first place.

    Indeed, charlatans like Ichadhari would not become an embarrassment in the name of religion without the help of blindly-worshipful people. The success – howsoever temporary – of these fake swamis also exposes the alarming levels of ignorance in society. Tantriks, exploiting the superstitions among people, are routinely in the news for rape and murder for money, making them no different from thugs and mercenaries. In March 2009, the Mumbai police arrested a tantrik, Hansmukh Rathod, and the parents of a girl who was sexually violated by her father, to improve his business.

    There is no reason to believe such things will come to an end, especially when there has been a spate of scandals involving the hollow ‘holy’ men. As Swami Dharmendra said on a TV talk show this week, “If adulterating medicines is a crime, then adulterating faith, too, should be a crime. Bhakti must remain pure in the heart of the bhakta.”

  15. Fresch says:

    So where are everybody from here?

    Where to the thousands of people disappear?

    Is sanyas only a period of time to fix our lives with some therapy or some kind of lapse before we go back to our normal lives (with some more fulfilment)?

  16. Fresch says:

    Who would stay active and why?

  17. Fresch says:

    I loved your writing vigyano, even I do remember Osho saying he is not in favour democracy. They/OFI probably will quote you that if they ever give any reaction/response/answer. I read garimo saying you are coming from Dutch conditioning. So, actually I think she and the rest of them would like to keep the connections with you.

    For many of us it’s the rebellious spirit or misfit spirit that brought us to Osho in the first place –why did it turn into “old conditioning” – a problem – a antiauthority etc. trip – personal issue to be solved when we challenge our own sanyas circles? Even I do understand that we (me too) do – including OFI’s people – always come also from our personal background. Why not make interaction to a resource instead of staying stuck in dead cult?

    Discussion is needed. Is that too much?

  18. Fresch says:

    I am getting reactive and pissed off when I think about this…

  19. Fresch says:

    Where are the suitable osho quotes, zen stories form 1000 years back, your own personal experiences and insights, attacks from the garage etc. when we are really talking about us? Who we are.

  20. Fresch says:

    And I mean you too Krishna prem, instead of that boring old story…

  21. shantam prem says:

    Fresch, 6 comments in 45 minutes-out of which 3 oneliners, must be in agitating state to see a rivering of sannyas movement getting disappering into a desert, just like ancient and mythological river”Sarasvati”, the godess of wisdom, because of some unknown reasons or may be a curse, lost its course and therefore instead of going towards an ocean, got lost in desert.

    (The Sarasvati is praised lavishly in the Rgveda as the best of all the rivers: e.g. in RV 2.41.16 she is called ámbitame nádītame dévitame sárasvati, “best mother, best river, best goddess”) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  22. shantam prem says:

    Parmartha, The editor of sannyasnews
    Few thoughts for your consideration…
    One can see from the response to this thread, people seem to be not interested in the old stories of Laxmi or Sheela´s time, and also no one will give a clap how we were responding to the prejudice of the media parents or friends.

    All most all of us have taken the stand for Osho since the arrival of osho in our heart, there will not be a single sannysin who has not discussed in hundreds of hours about Osho against the collective doubts and close hearted opinion about Him.
    So it does not ring the bells in the present time, how someone did something in the past.
    Nobody gives the reward to those forfathers, whose construtction work is crumbling today, though for sure we need that kind of motivating energy today.

    LIFE´s INTEREST IS FOR HERE, NOW

    What is happening today is a question of concern. My simple request to all His people is; it is not for or against the Media, parents, society, and organised religions; IF In your heart you, His people, feel that PMT at Pune( present management team) is doing a fine job for Him and for His people, Please, please fill the place again with your laughter, hugs, and energy. It is the calling of the love, that after Master´s departure we make it even better, profound and meaningful.
    PLEASE VISIT PUNE AS YOU HAVE DONE BEFORE

    ANd on the other side, if you all feel, as i feel that the PMT has taken the magic away from the show, they have taken the music away from the sounds in the name of Osho guidelines, than please, STAND AGAINST THEM AS YOU DID BEFORE WITH PARENTS; TEACHERS; MEDIA.

    It is not taking the stand against authority, it is not the protest for the sake of protest. IT IS THE STAND FOR OSHO. OSho without contamination, Osho without adulteration.

  23. Fresch says:

    Shantam, you do write so beautifully, but of course we all come from different standpoint.

    I have been trying to see my self form many angles here. I have said before I am not against OFI per see, at all. It also might be that they are doing just the right thing. I do not know. I do not see only answer being everybody going to Mecca Pune.

    I would just like to discus what would bring energy up. It’s clearly not media or any outside stuff, but us. So, can we pls talk about us, not media. Not interesting. Krishna prem your opinion of NOW would be very interesting for many. Vigyano put him self really on the spot…so, where are you? There was a reason you wrote this article, so come and talk with us….:D

    One close friend just said to me that that is how it’s going to be; most of the people do some other stuff and leave, and only few remain. She is perfectly happy about that. So, I need to look at my self here. Also, really to make things happen that make me and people around me happy.

    People who stay are on constant journey to look at them selves (hopefully….), so of course it would be a NEW thing to look at our selves who we are, something more than just individuals….and vision of where we are going to…what ever happens, I love to have shared the journey with you here too.

    *Being irritated sometimes, but loving you all.*

  24. Fresch says:

    Also, Kirsha prem, there was a reason this guy came to osho; he was looking something. Pls do not act as a cult member toward him, but as a friend who is looking for answers clearly. Hello! Somebody is writing an article etc. is doing HIS OWN interpretation on a subject. Most of the people know this these times. It’s not them, let’s take a mirror! Good for us.

  25. shantam prem says:

    Since that time Krishnaprem has died, but his words have even more resonance. One wonders if Hitchins was so far away from the truth where Osho is concerned, how far he may be away from the truth in the rest of his lazy book. (Parmartha: Editor Sannyasnews ).

    Fresch, please read the preface of this article. Krishnaprem is no more here to answer your question. May be Parmartha on his behalf can do this favour.
    Parmartha, Hitchins may be light year far from the truth where Osho is concerned. Why he should not be. Osho was not his choice.
    The relevant question is about us, we should not be far away from Truth as far as Osho is concerned, at least we can try to be fully attentive and still humble enough to say, The way i have heard Osho saying.
    It will be a great day in the life of Osho when head of the PMT will say, ” The way i have understood Osho saying rather than, These are the Osho guidelines.” Punkt.

  26. shantam prem says:

    I would just like to discus what would bring energy up.

    Fresch, in the process of discussing what would bring energy up, we must become clear about few facts, who in the first place brought the energy down.

    I don´t think, Osho is the name of the festival balloons. At the day of birthday, they are full with air and pointed upwords and night after, shrinked and three days later so much deflated, one can clear them with the broom and so stubborn that a child can kick them from here and there, even crush them under the feet, still they survive, these low energy balloons.

  27. shantam prem says:

    and they (PMT) must be doing the right thing. Agreed.
    Can some one shed the light with three points,about their right thing doing.

    TEACHER: PMT, how do you spell ‘crocodile?’
    PMT: K-R-O-K-O-D-I-A-L’
    TEACHER: No, that’s wrong
    PMT: Maybe it is wrong, but you asked me how I spell it

    PMT is a shortning of Present Management Team.
    As nothing last far ever, PMt can remain relevant all the time. People will change and without any “Maroon Book of Osho Guidelines”, every relevant PMT will have the liberty to chew Osho like a gum.

  28. shantam prem says:

    To bring the energy up…
    may be we can start laughing about ourselves rather than on Pollacks, jews and Christians etc.

    For example
    PMT has a lifesaving tool in their offical car
    which is designed to cut through a seat belt
    if they get trapped. They have instructed the driver to keep it in the trunk.

    They Walk Among Us!
    ———————————————————————————-
    I was hanging out with my British management team friend when we saw a Tribal Indian woman
    with a nose ring attached to an earring by a chain.
    My friend said, ‘Ouch! The chain must rip
    out every time she turns her head!”
    I had to explain that a person’s nose and ear
    remain the same distance apart no
    matter which way the head is turned…

    They Walk Among Us !

    ———————————————————————————
    and one on oneself..

    Girl friend, ” Shantam you will not believe, how much my mother loves you.”
    Shantam replied sincerely after a deep pause, ” beleive me, still i will marry you and not your mother.”

    He walks among us!

  29. Swami Detective says:

    La Russie, cible lundi d’un double attentat suicide dans le métro de Moscou, a subi mercredi une nouvelle attaque meurtrière.

  30. Swami Detective says:

    DevaKrishna, in a cartoon on your Otoons site you seem to indicate that the resort provides CLEAN drinking water for its guests, especially in the new Auditorium facility. However we have it from an Australian engineer called Abhay that this has not been the case, and may still not be the case today. Abhay seems to go so far as to say the drinking water facilities at the resort are a complete joke in themselves, with no need for artistic enhancement. Could you please help me to understand this discrepancy.

  31. Fresch says:

    Oh, no, I thought it was an other prem Krishna…How stupid of me. Sorry.

  32. Swami Detective says:

    Fresch, I made the same mistake and also felt bad about it. Obviously you did not read of my mistake. Why do you not read what I write?

  33. Swami Detective says:

    And Abhay, how about you also explain the water discrepancy for us here and now.

  34. Fresch says:

    I do read everybody’s posts, but I forget most of it, I also forget what I have written myself:) I am trying to work at the same time, so…I almost forget that too:DDD too much of dynamic meditation, I seem to be in a constant chaos.

  35. Swami Detective says:

    You forget everything and live in constant chaos. This leads me to consider that you have attained to Enlightenment.

  36. Swami Detective says:

    I think my last post just went into the void.

    Sounds to me like you have attained the ultimate.

  37. amano says:

    fresch, wrote,

    I have been trying to see my self form many angles here. I have said before I am not against OFI per see, at all. It also might be that they are doing just the right thing. I do not know. I do not see only answer being everybody going to Mecca Pune.
    i have my standpoint on youre comment…….you said you are not against OFI , and you said they might be doing just the right thing…i think you know and thousands of others know as well that thinghs are not good , but you aaffrcauaid to stand up against OFI……..because of sannyasins like you rajneesh puram was shut down …………once in pune 2 osho mention in discourse to stand up and speak if you see something terrible going on around you ……if you keep quit and do not express your views, you will be more and more exploited…….anyway wake up my friend and see how OFI brought us to this mess and try to speak up . i am very against what OFI has done to sannyasins . let me tell you some facts……….there are thousands of sannyasins, all over world, are hurt by OFI . very nice sannyasins who does not deserve this kind of behaviour from OFI . IF you can not see it , then i would say you are either coward who knows everything and do not want to do anything or you do not care a bit what is going on around world with osho world……..it would be nice if YOU would have said that i know WHAT OFI IS DOING AND I AM COWARD AND CAN NOT HELP
    LET ME TELL U SOMETHINGH HOW WE SANNYSINS REACHED TO THIS POINT WHERE WE ARE NOW……..OFI KEPT DOING THINGHS WHICH MAKES NO SENCE AND EVEN A CHILD CAN SEE THEIR CUNNINGNESS. BUT OUR COWARD FRIENDS OF MOST BRAVE MASTER KEPT SUPPORTING THOSE WHO SHOULD BE QUESTIONED ON MANY TOPIC LIKE MONEY, EDITING BOOKS OF BUDHA WITH THEIR OWN IDEAS AND MOST OF ALL CONTROLLING THE LIFE OF THOUSANDS WHO TRAVELL ALL THE WAY TO PUNE TO TASTE FREEDOM

  38. amano says:

    EVERYBODY ON THIS SITE.
    MARK MY WORDS ,SOON SOME BIG CHANGES ARE COMING TO 17 KOREGAON PUNE . AS FAR MANAGEMENT IS CONCERNED……….WHAT THEY DID TO OSHO AND HIS COMMUNE CAN NOT CONTINUE……NOW IT IS OUR TIME TO GO AND ENJOY THE FREEDOM THERE SOON…WATCH SOON YOU WILL HEAR ANNOUCEMENT FROM PUNE. THAT JAYESH AND AMRITO ARE LEAVING. THOSE WHO WANT TO SEE JAYESH, AMRITO LEAVING , PLEASE DO NOT LOOSE HOPE …..TIME HAS COME SOON……SHAME ON AMRITO AND JAYESH , LONG LIVE OSHO AND HIS CHILDREN (SANYASINS)

  39. Fresch says:

    Amano, yes you are hurting…. what happened?

    I do not understand why anybody would edit osho’s words…compilations attract some new people, but I would not be worried about them.

    I do not understand this banning of people either. But if some people are involved in illegal activities like smoking dope in India, I do understand the resort does not want these people to come in. You know a lot of people start acting different when in India than what they do in their home countries. Also, often sanyasin think that society’s rules do not bide them. For my self i do not support that attitude. On the contrary we should be more creative with outside world.

    However, when i went back to the resort after 10 years or so, I had to do this stupid half a day tour…I did give face-to-face feedback about it at the welcome center and also at the plaza again, I was really pissed about it. I do not think it went anywhere. Even that simple thing.

    I remember reading osho that everybody was responsible for Ranch and that people should speak up. Also, I remember reading osho that he did not want negative stuff printed on his magazines, but only stuff that supports his vision.

    A master is a mirror… I do not see my self at the moment.

    So, what to do? I would really like it, if OFI would start being more transparent with their actions and really do some co-operation with sanyasins, be more inviting, less teacher attitude, they could organize an open seminar or you know, what ever…to be more open. If they fuck it up, it’s not very good for any of us.

  40. shantam prem says:

    If they fuck it up, it´s not very good for any of us….

    The people at the decision making body have already fucked it up in such a way that to make love in a proper way seems to be a distinct possibility.
    I have not a zero percent personal grudge against any of the PMT members, but a sense of bewilderment that how few people could dare to perform plastic surgery at the face of Master´s work.
    One is not suppose to do such transgressions even on the painting or on the music, and here the doctor and the financier change the very face of Osho´s work, the face what He himself created after many trials and errors and modifications of 35 years of continuous presence among us.
    Have they made it more beautiful.
    If this would have been so; if the world at large have appreciated this plastic face , the roots and the branches could have touched millions of other people.
    Don´t believe what i write. Just look around in your own city, and find how many people are around Osho, how many new friends and lovers and fellow travelors( not virtual as on face book, the real sweety and sweaty ones) you have met during the last 10 years, who have the common base called Osho.

  41. Swami Detective says:

    Hey how’s the Frank & Bob Road oShoW going?

    Is it possible to burn bad karma by telling the truth on SannyasNews? I have told an ugly lie and it is eating away my soul. I have been manipulative, deceptive, and dishonest to say the least.

    The truth is…..

    The truth is……….

    The truth is…………..

    Aaaarrggghhhhh!!!!!

    oh Show me the Show Osho
    ohSho the only O in the sHow

    My name is Dectective Swami and not Swami Detective.

    That’s right folks. I ain’t even a real Swami.

    You know I am wondering about your O so Osho groups.

    Why are the borders not made clear for already wacked out seekers.

    Are the GroupO Leadership too shy to make it clear that the scope is ill-defined so they can break up relationships and create deep seated guilt?

    Great that all this is done with much heartache by the wacked out seeker, with more to come afterwards.

    I just read about the School of Awakening by Sarita the Tanterlising Tantress.

    Why does she make clear the scope and the bounderies in her work.
    She is not a true Osho sannyassin group guru leader.
    I demand the she be banned for 3 life times!!!

    Beware of people like Sarita.
    If you bring your girlfriend or boyfriend to one of her shows you know already at the outset that she is not trying to destroy your relationship out of masked jealousy.

    If I am in need of a group then it is because I am in need of clarity. I need to understand more clearly MY path with heart.

    Yet in Osho groups it is not clear.

    If I want the group leader and the groups participants to entertain my girlfriend, then that is great. Just tell me what the go is. I have no problem with group structure like this. Just till me at the outset. If my girlfriend and I do not like the scene we can go and do another group that does not push us outside our boundaries. These boundaries are part of the nature of who I am. These boundaries I discover as I go deeper into my true nature. So I do not need a group leader that says its cool for him to fuck my girlfriend. If that is made clear, and my girlfriend thinks that’s real cool too, then she can enjoy her new boyfriend(s) and I can go find another one. This is where so many people get screwed up. The Ogroup guru’s argue that they are all for border expansion. I say they are stepping on borders. Yes afterwards you feel free for a few days, then by and by if you try and sit silently something starts knawing at your heart.

    If a path is the Path of Meditation that is great.
    If a path is the Path of Love that is great.
    If a path is the Path of Lust that is great.
    If a path is the Path of Sex that is great.
    Just say so.
    What is the reason for shyness from Osho group gurus?
    Have you something to hide?

  42. Swami Detective says:

    Some swans mate for life. I think all such despicable swans should be rounded up and sent to compulsory re-education camp at the Osho m-ulterior-varsity. Stamp out nature. Stamp on nature. Ruin peoples lives in the name of your screwed up idea of Osho.

    Indeed why stop there. There is money to be made. Let’s herd up all species of animals other than rabbits and rodents, and free them by hypnotise them into thinking they are rabbits or rodents.

    Indeed why stop there. There is money to be made. Let’s build a mighty floating pyramid called Osho kNoahers Everything Ark, and send it down the flooding river of cyber-space repression.

    May all beings be free of their nature.
    May all beings hit my paypal button.

  43. Fresch says:

    Because therapists are the same people as everybody else; where else could they pick up dates so easily? One guy said he went for the black robe for one day to arrange his dates:DDD

    I picked up one real Christian priest to get the authentic feeling of it.

  44. Fresch says:

    Doctors get the nurses, bosses get secretaries…more powerful position you have, more dates available…regardless of gender…and the looks; better looking person, more opportunities…sanyasins are no different from normal people there. It’s a market. If in relationship, better make a contract before group. Of course new people do not know it and things can happen before you learn a lesson in a heard way…

  45. Swami Detective says:

    Whad da ya say ta dat n Tony?

    I reckons u and Freschee should hook up!

  46. Swami Detective says:

    Freschee why da ya reckons that i will pay for me girlfriend to get screwed and for me to get screwed up?

  47. Swami Detective says:

    So Freschee the group space is there to reflect society. I thought that i am already part of a fucked up society, and i came to the group to reflect me?

  48. Fresch says:

    Don’t do it, make a contract with the girlfriend before you go to any groups: no fucking around!

    hhaahhaaa….

    you can pay for me for that advice.

  49. Swami Detective says:

    i think you meant learn the HARD way rather then the heard way

  50. Fresch says:

    we are the same as “the world”, and nothing will ever change…

  51. Fresch says:

    minor detail, but HARD way, yes

  52. Swami Detective says:

    Freschee i don’t think heavy weight Tony would consider his trade tools Minor detail.

  53. Fresch says:

    …heavy weight Tony?

    I am too dump with your secretive hints…no experience with detective work..

  54. Fresch says:

    If you are referring my friend’s stories..she dropped down from the hill:D

  55. Fresch says:

    My recommendation for all sanyas women is as before, to go for the Christian priests; they make devotional lovers….etc.

  56. Anand says:

    Is the ‘Path of Love’ the new cult within a cult?
    Watch out sannyasi sheeps for the wolves!

  57. Dhanyam says:

    The Vigyano thread seems to be exhausted, so I wanted to let you know here that his letter has been published on April 2 on page 3 of Intelligent Pune. You can find it at
    http://www.epapergallery.com/IntelligentPune/2Apr2010/Enlarge/page3.htm

  58. swami prem martyn says:

    i was never going to post again, but swami detective’s excellent post on transparency made me want to say a long …THANk YOUuuuuuuuu

    # The group leader shit and lack of transparency is engineered to make you look for the collusional snakey part of yourself that will double deal, betray etc all in the name of religion… straight out of type casting for a Cecil B de Mille movie of white robe loonies….and no i’m not going to explain that at length.

    Whatever part of this that Moses (alias Osho ) had in this… in using Authoritarian techniques to instrumentalise us into our respective Pay as You Go soul searching …..I have no doubt that he was a prick or a cunt depending on your use of language. So don’t stop at the therapists manipulation, because they are only doing what Moses told them and allowed them and orchestrated them and supplied them with acres of evidence to so do. They sell the groups for money with that formula.And we buy them.

    If you think he didn’t , then how come all the shits constantly got into ‘power’….. and all of us transparent ones who could handle whatever was happening ……. by laying the truth on the line. before during and after the fucky fucky games …the consequences and choices…never got that much air time??

    When you have even your own preferences stripped from you especially in your youth, because of accusations of ‘conditioning’ by the cultural revolutionary red guards…. what hope is there that you will ever find your own intimacy and fraternity with those whom you have deeply loved , openly and freely as the years go by?

    Insidious paid for group Ideological Humiliation and Betrayal are far bigger poisons than the cheer leading-drum banging snakey accusations of ‘jealousy’, especially when sold as they are in groups as ‘freedom’ and ‘awareness’.

    I never read a poem that started .’.I’m so glad you had that big cock inside you last night the one that wasnt mine’. :-) .
    (girls please rephrase accordingly)

    In fact in my experience of countless relationship experiments of my friends and I ,which destroyed any semblance of group intimacy between men and men and men and women and women and women. It was a therapists pointless energy wasting nightmare of ego battles.Path of Love /Humaniversity etc etc all a bunch of Shit Eaters. Because the aspiration is if you want to get more love and never be bothered about how, then look for the magical chair to sit with your eyes closed..a la moses and forget your straightforward humaneness towards others.

    Alleelujah, praise the robes , black robes white robes red robes the slushy music the kleenex..the hushed tones..the use of language….
    ‘I belong at last I belong’

    Osho is still my master ..its just that now i know he was a cunt too and that other more insidious cunts use him for their own benefits.

    Such is life when you remove the gobbledegook of searching for yourself while abusing another. Big deal Whats new?

    so my recommendation :-…..

    There’s nothing like revenge to sort out where someone else screwed with your head and heart. even if you were an idiot to let them do that to you.
    Then everyone will know theres a price…. and will not have to pay a penny for any group of self discovery…..you can just pay later….:)

    And If I’m hurting well …its pay back time…. and I’m not aboout to use a meditational suppository to make things easier for those who disagree with me.

    From now on its a straight fight.
    My sannyas is now defined by me and that feels great.
    Cheers.

    tralalalala tralala

    Rafia and Turiya and Veeresh et al stick it up your arses

    Next week:

    Osho energy darshan and transmission of shaktipat…Now that was farrrr fucking out and didnt involve anyone but me and him……
    Thanks for the good bits Osh
    love….always love ,cheers.. thats it !

  59. swami prem martyn says:

    ps is it worse to call a dead Osho a fucking cunt or my master…which has more love in it ?…Maybe I should ask a therapist….:)

  60. sw prem martyn says:

    pps chris hitchens the journalist is a supporter of the iraq war and is a useless piece of oxbridge shit . But Poona always licked arse when it came to building the new man through the media therefore the new man will always need a big arse wiped by fresh newspaper.Try old copies of the Osho times they are wonderful for a glossy finish.

  61. shantam prem says:

    #
    Fresch // Apr 2, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    My recommendation for all sanyas women is as before, to go for the Christian priests; they make devotional lovers….etc.

    Are you dating some Christian priest? And if he is a devotional lover, can he hold your hands in the church and let the congregation know.

    In my eyes, devotional lover is one who can face God and the world, because he has loved someone, for a day or a life; time is not the essence.

  62. vigyano says:

    Dhanyam, thanks (Apr 2, 3:47), God is Great, I suppose! .Besides a daring article of Mrs Vinita Deshmukh in Intelligent Pune on pag 14…!

    By the way, is there some-one who has a recent picture of Jayesh?

  63. Swami Detective says:

    Yes Mr Love Smartyn you are on the money as usual with the collusional/betrayal theory. This does not mean that there should be not offered a way out, preferably before you go In (if you now what I mean). And even if you step over the mark, still it is good to know that there is also the temptation of doing the right thing on offer. Only offering the road to hell without saying you can purchase a ticket to come back anytime you like is a little tough wouldn’t you say.

    It is along the same lines Mr Smartyn that we have both wayward Osho sub-Guru’s and whole-hearted Osho sub-Guru’s. In this way, even if your second argument stacks up about Osho tempting therapists to lead groups into temptation, then it gets balanced out by the offering of positive and nurturing Osho therapists. That is why I gave the positive example of Sarita.

    Thirdly Mr Smartyn, you have a little soul searching yet for yourself. Your entire approach is to attack those in authority. Whether or not you have a point is beside the point. The main point Mr Smartyn is that you were a Ko Hsuan teacher in your past life, if my memory serves correct. Do you not see the sweet irony Mr Smartyn? Do you not have aspirations to one day be a great Guru yourself, and tempt innocent seekers down the road into fire and darkness? You desire power and when you do not have it, out of jealousy you condemn. This is why your condemnation sometimes misses the point. Though I must admit sometimes you nail it.

    Your anti-Americanism is similarly biased. You present facts yet there are facts on the other side of the equation that change the conclusion considerably. It is like your friend oSwama BeenLaiden. In his ideological tyrade he outlines all the massacres of Muslims. He forgets to mention little facts like the genocide against the Armenian Christians by the muslim Turks in World War I. Just a little innocent omission wouldn’t you say Mr Smartyn?

    With respect to Iraq for example, you forgot to mention that the vast majority of Iraqi deaths were from them killing each other in a civil war. You might also like to include the number of Iraqis slaughtered by SWAddaMI hueInseini.

  64. Swami Detective says:

    Freschee would you trust you Priest boyfriend to look after your son, and maybe make him into a choir boy?

    Nevertheless perhaps I will take up your advice and date a Christian priest.

    If that doesn’t work out I will fall in love with an Osho ma. After I save up heaps of money I will send her to the Humaniversity and the Path of Love. Afterwards I will dress up in a black robe and wait in hope for her return.

  65. Fresch says:

    This trip with groups is a Pandora box; I have hurt and been hurt endlessly with my own unconscious behaviour…also the same in life. Of course you can live more on the surface, things happen less. Also, I have to be in authority position in my work and some people hate me for that for different reasons. People start putting all kinds of interpretations and expectations on you regardless what you do. What independent therapists or Osho centres around the world do is their thing more or less; you do not have to participate in anything you do not want.

    Pune is different, because it holds the heritage of Osho. It’s not really these’s people personal trip only. I would not want to be in their position, it’s awfully difficult. However, if you are in the head of the religious movement, transparency is required; I never heard it would be a good policy to have only a few people in such power, never that all decisions are made behind the screens, never that finances are not open, not good policy for any organization not to communicate almost at all and when they do it, they do it with arrogance…

    vigyano poured his heart out…it’s on the press. They should have a crisis pr-plan at least like organizations do have for situations. Perhaps they could consult the companies in NY they are working with how to deal with the situations like this.

    For my self, it does not seem to be Pune any more.

  66. Fresch says:

    I still think (!) they, OFI, have the best intension and that these people are trying to do their best. However, perhaps it’s time to to run that organization in a more modern way.

  67. Fresch says:

    Vigyano, Jeyesh was also in the Mumbai attack, I read an article about it in some Canadian local news paper, but there was no picture, I can not find it any more. I hope he finds some peace somewhere.

  68. Swami Prem Martyn says:

    Mr Detective:

    Libertarian education is anti authoritarian in praxis and has anarchist roots like my views on christopher hitchens. The rest is conjecture.

    cheers
    m

  69. Anand says:

    Fresch: Jayesh was in NY during 9/11. He was also in the Oberoi Hotel 6th floor
    during the Mumbai terrorist attacks (with Mukesh) and in Pune during the German Bakery attack in February. Quite an achievement, always at the right place when things are happening.

  70. Fresch says:

    and he was with Vivek when she went down…her lover I remember…

  71. Anand says:

    he absolutely brings bad luck….

  72. vigyano says:

    The article about Jayesh and Mukesh in the Mumbai Attack was in the Edmonton Sun see: http://www.otoons.com/gossips/jayesh_mukesh_mumbay-massacre.html. On the picture is Mukesh. During de Pune Attack Jayesh was talking with Dhyanesh. I have heard that Dhyanesh ran to the blast site alone.

    By the way, did some-one ever see something like an Annual (Financial) Report of the OIF in Zurich? Or of any other part of the Foundation network. i.e. Osho International in NY (David Alexander) I don’t know the Swiss legislation about this yet, but in the Netherlands many Foundations (have to) present a annual financial report.

  73. Swami Detective says:

    Mr Smartyn, your above statement along with the rest of your scramble is conjecture. The rest is truth.

    Your libertarianism is rooted in anarchism is rooted in the Marxist maxim each according to ones ability and each according to ones needs. It is the true path of love, or the path with heart. Each individual’s unique talent is offered as a creative gift to the whole, and each individual’s needs are met with sensitivity and benevolence. You want to break down the hierarchical power structures in society because you see them as being rigid, oppressive, and dictatorial. All great efforts like this in the past have broken down the existing structures and then created the likes of Stalin and Mao and Chavez and Master Kim and Jayesh. Yes if all beings stopped interfering in the lives of others your theory would work. Yet as Nietzsche knows so well, the will to power of man is a force to be reckoned with. There is a second problem with your theory. May all beings have equal opportunity, but not all beings are equal. Some have more intellectual capacity than others (you for example), some are more loving, and some are more powerful. This power can be used to create vast good in this world. You are of the misguided view that this power can only create vast evil, hence it is your ambition to destroy power. In trying to destroy power you are trying to destroy an essential quality of man. You are not different than the celibate religious zealots whose aim is to destroy sexuality. Sexuality, as with power, is to be understood and transcended. Sexual repression creates perversion. Repression of power creates violence. This will always be the end result of efforts like yours. People like you will destroy civil society and create civil war rather than your aspired lofty goal of civilised society.

    I like your line of inquiry Vigyano.

    If Dhyanesh did run to the blast-site, was it after White-Robe?

    The second blast in the recent Moscow bombings was around 40 minutes after the first.

  74. Anand says:

    Yes Dhyanesh went to the bombing site of the German Bakery after the White Robe Meditation.

  75. vigyano says:

    Happy eastern to all those who love to celebrate it…

    Dear Swami Detective: It is told that Dhyanesh and Jayesh had a bilateral meeting somewhere in the Resort when the bomb went of, so both we not attending the white robe celebration.

    It also is told that Dhyanesh was called by the guard of Sanai because of the blast and headed to that direction. I don’t know if he actually went tot the blast site, but from my impressions next day when we spoke to him, I don’t think so. I didn’t hear any stories about what Jayesh did do that evening, but I can imagine that the blast was rather traumatic for him after what he (and his friend Mukesh?) had to pass through during the Mubai Attack. (The next morning he is seen at the Resort Gate and also on Mumbai Airport heading for London, because of what in london??).

    The evening of the blast, we ourselves where near the blast site and ran to it after we heard that dry sharp bang and the screaming. Between the mutilated bodies there was Jack Huang laying on his back on the street wounded but not mutilated and fully conscious. We knew him from the salsa class I gave the day before and he was very, very relieved to see us as people he knew between all those unknown. He directly asked us to call his wife, at home in Taiwan, to hear her voice! However our prepaids didn’t work out well. So my partner went to the resort to use the system there, while I tried to find a car, willing to take Jack to the hospital.

    After this succeeded – it is somewhere between 8.00 and 9.00 hours then – I went to the Resort and I was astonished to find my partner there still outside a closed gate while the sannyasins there weren’t able (lacking instruction) to act. “We cant reach Dhyanesh and we won’t disturb the Video of Osho for this” etc etc. At this moment Amrito is coming from the white robe as one of the first. On our request to support us in opening the system to help the victims, his comment was that we should wait for Dhyanesh and he simply walked off, seemingly bathing in self protecting arrogance and probably violating his Hippocratic-Oath he had to make as a physician (if John Andrews really is one?),”. Later the disco began and everybody inside was in this sinister celebrating…etc. .

  76. Swami Prem Martyn says:

    Mr Detective

    You offer a powerfully violent tirade of conjecture :)

    Your original posting remains transparently noteworthy which I welcomed.

    From there on in , we go our separate ways.

    Cheers.
    m

  77. Fresch says:

    You are so fanny guys…so what is you personal investment with all the graph people have to read here? What’s the fucking point complaining what some people you don’t even know, do in India, in some resort they run? Amrito and Jayesh are not your friends, even virtually, so if you go there for a week once in 5 years to their place, can you at least behave as guests? Or ordinary customers.

    Would you be writing here after some hotel visit in Goa how their management was dealing with terrorists? No. Sanyasnins are NOT WE. You all have some other jobs to do, they are doing their jobs –not very modern way – but it’s their job. For my self I need to start to understand this.

    Martyn, so you came back because mr. detective is writing so beautifully….hhaaahhhaaaaahhaaaaa you just cannot live without us sweetie.

    Detective, you have some good hilarious points, but “In trying to destroy power you are trying to destroy an essential quality of man.” Now, how can you draw that simple conclusion, I did not expect from you. Never heard it would create better world to give more power to already powerful person. ..hello, want to give some more power to Bill gates?

    Capitalism does not really work either; it was seen with the bank crisis and Enron etc., that ALL people in power need mentors or counterforce. I hope OFI understands to get that support for them selves. So Swami, nothing prevents you to get that black robe for you girlfriend already tonight.

    Anand, you are clearly the best source for information here. I love all the gossiping here. Can I get banned for this writing to the resort? is this being negative? are you vigyano now banned? or not welcome etc?

  78. Fresch says:

    I can recomendent the Church again here; they have the concept of Mercy – for all people. And freedom to speak up, you do not banned from the Church for being critical….

  79. Fresch says:

    It’s actually interesting. I one company I worked for we could say anything that was bothering us in our meetings – and we did. Of course, my boss would not have liked it if I had done it publically. If I study in University, I can write what ever I want about them, and not get fired. If I belong to the Church, I can say anything anywhere. So, I wonder…am I obligated to represent sanyas in some way. Are OFI at all obligated for me in that case? Is it one way?

  80. Swami Prem Martyn says:

    Hello Fresch

    Yes its intensely gratifying here.

    A real pleasure.

    I must invite my friends……..

    Thanks for the tease.

    All de best
    m

  81. Swami Detective says:

    Thanks Vigyano and Anand. It seems the conjecture that the head of security was in White-Robe for its duration is probably incorrect, though the general criticism of the response still remains outstanding.

    Fresch I would like to inform you that you are getting a little annoying for the resort management. I am off to buy some black wool, and will commence with knitting my black-robe.

    Yes Mr Smartyn you can hide behind your ideologies, you can quote snippets without sufficient documentation for anyone to understand your viewpoint let alone reply, and you can agree to run away, but you as yet have not made a single response to any issue I have raised. Ream after ream of tirade against the establishment, yet when you are questioned you shrink into your shell.

  82. Anand says:

    Vigyana, I do not understand. Why was your friend not brought to the hospital just 30 yards away from the front gate of the resort? This story makes no sense.

    Amrito just coming out of the Evening Meditation probably just wanted to cross the road through the main gate back to his room in Lao Tzu. At this point he was probably not informed about the bombing (?).

    Dhyanesh went later that evening to the bombing site with Anando. i saw them there.

  83. Swami Detective says:

    Anand there are other issues of confusion. My line of supposition was that Dhyanesh was in White-Robe for its duration. Assuming this, it is (was) therefore possible to partly negate his role in the situation based on the inaction of security at the main gate. However Dhyanesh, being head of security, is responsible for making action plans and ensuring they are enacted upon when needed. Hence in any event there would have been a considerable level of irresponsibility on his part.

    I am assuming now that Jayesh and Dhyanesh were involved in a meeting at the time of White-Robe (and the explosion). I am assuming Anand that you are clear on the time of seeing Anando and Dhyanesh at the blast site, and that it was after White-Robe (presumably you know that White-Robe had finished). It is also possible that Dhyanesh was at the site previously, or had been to the site for some time before you saw him, and hence your account would then be consistent with Vigyano’s.

    Amrito’s comment about waiting for Dhyanesh means that he was of the view that Dhyanesh was in attendance at White-Robe. This is another area of contention. Did he have reason to think that Dhyanesh was in White-Robe, or did he think so out of habit, or did he know that Dhyanesh was in White-Robe?

    I would also like to acknowledge Vigyano that you and your partner would have experienced the most unimaginably appalling scenes, and acted in a most selfless and courageous manner in the face of the possibility of further incidents.

    The guards at the main gate have raised two issues. The first issue is that they could not reach Dhyanesh. The second issue is that they would not disturb White-Robe. Now from this I made the assumption that Dhyanesh was therefore in White-Robe. It is a reasonable assumption to make. (Of course I here are linking the two issues, and it is possible that security at main gate was aware that Dhyanesh was not in White-Robe, could not contact him, and did not want to entertain the possibility of contacting another senior management figure who was in attendance in White-Robe).

    Vigyano, you say you arrived at main gate to see your partner still waiting for help from the resort at just the time that White-Robe finished. So up until the end of White-Robe, security at the main gate was unable to contact Dhyanesh and unwilling to disturb White-Robe. I assume firstly that in being unwilling to disturb White-Robe this also means that they did not enact any additional measures to ensure the safety of the people participating in White-Robe.

    How is it that for the entire duration of White-Robe the security at the main gate was not in any contact with Dhyanesh (the head of security)? It is possible that main gate security was not truthful in this regard, however this makes little sense. What reason would main gate have to lie to Vigyano’s partner about this? It makes more sense that Dhyanesh made no contact with main gate security for the duration of White-Robe. Now if Dhyanesh was meeting Jayesh somewhere in the resort, then it seems implausible that he ran to the blast site soon after the blast (with this being prior to the end of White-Robe). Perhaps he was meeting Jayesh in an outside location (maybe the O-Hotel)?

    From the above analysis I find it difficult to accept Vigyano’s account of Dhyanesh running to the blast site soon after the blasts occurrence.

    This raises important questions about Dhyanesh’s whereabouts. When was Dhyanesh informed of the blast and by whom? It seems that is was not the main gate security as they apparently had no idea where he was or how to contact him. I recall reading previously that the Sannai guard contacted him, and that he subsequently ran to the blast site. Yet this makes no sense. If the Sannai guard did call Dhyanesh when did he do so. Surely this would have taken place just after the blast occurred. Why would the Sannai guard wait till some time later (possibly after White-Robe) to call Dhyanesh and alert him to this most serious situation? So if the Sannai guard called Dhyanesh soon after the blast, and Dhyanesh then ran to the blast site, why did not main gate security know anything about this?

    Perhaps the most important area of concern is what Dhyanesh did not with respect to the personal viewing of the Bakery blast, but with respect to ensuring the safety of the resort. As stated previously there was no stated liaising between Dhyanesh and main gate security for the duration of White-Robe. When was Dhyanesh notified of the Bakery incident, by whom, and what actions did he subsequently take?

    Now if Dhyanesh was aware of the Bakery blast just after its occurrence, what did he do from then until the end of White-Robe? I find it simply puzzling to say the least that he would have had no contact with main gate security. I again reiterate the point that the resort was known in the preceding months and weeks to be on terrorists radars. As soon as the blast happened at the bakery the possibility of further attacks (whether from blasts or otherwise), was a very real concern. (There is no defence here that the Bakery blast may have been a gas explosion accident. The reason is that given the terrorist threat and the scale of the Bakery disaster, one should surely err on the side of caution). Vigyano and his partner left themselves open to this possibility in their actions, as did many other courageous individuals. So what did Dhyanesh do in response to this obvious possibility?

    If Dhyanesh was not notified in a timely manner of the Bakery blast this would explain some discrepancies. It would help explain for example main gate security’s remarkable inaction. It however would not explain why main gate did not go to extraordinary length to contact Dhyanesh in this extra-ordinary situation. (Perhaps they did but from the personal accounts it appears not). More importantly though, it would not explain why Dhyanesh was not contacted until long after the Bakery blast occurred.

    Why would Dhyanesh not have been notified immediately after the blast, at least by someone? Perhaps he was in a closed door meeting with Jayesh (at the resort), and either main gate was unaware of this meeting and its location, or main gate was unwilling for some reason to contact them. This latter account may be explained on the basis the Jayesh is the chairmen of the Inner-Circle, and so if he is having a meeting with the head of security then it may have been deemed too important to interrupt. I do not consider such reasoning acceptable, and if this was the reasoning, by whom was it made. Did Dhyanesh instruct main gate security that he was not to be disturbed under any circumstances?

    This of course leads to Jayesh. Essentially the approach is to ask the same questions of Jayesh as of Dhyanesh. When was he notified of the Bakery blast, by whom, and what actions did he subsequently take. The main line of questioning is that Jayesh was apparently having a meeting with Dhyanesh (the head of security). It is therefore pertinent to query the correspondence between these to people in relation to the happenings (or lack of them) that evening.

    At a personal level we have it that Jayesh may have some circumstances of his own to merit his conduct. I have also read somewhere that Sudheer enforced a banning on the sannyassin that tried to inform the party goers that night of the Bakery blast, and that this was done so at the behest of Jayesh. I have previously stated that the conducting of a disco that evening was not just ‘sinister’, but deeply flawed from a security perspective (as with not taking additional measures relating to White-Robe). I am interested in who allowed the party to take place. If it was Jayesh that requested the sannyassin be banned, I assume that he was supportive of the party taking place, even if not actively so.

    Now I come to the question of why Jayesh left the resort (and the country) the next morning.

    If he was running away out of fear (perhaps something came up because of being previously involved with the Mumbai bombings) then he is acknowledging that he believes there is a serious threat to the resort. If this is assumed, it does not therefore make any sense that he was either actively or passively unsupportive of additional measures for White-Robe or actively or passively supportive of the evening disco taking place. I also make the point here that if this line of reasoning has any validity, then the resort management has some serious internal problems to come to terms with. If Jayesh went into shock and acted in an irrational manner, then he is in no way fit to manage the resort (let alone the responsibilities of Inner-Circle chairperson).

    If Jayesh, like Dhyanesh, was party to inaction with respect to the protection of White-Robe participants, or was a party to enacting the evening disco, then he is culpable of negligent conduct. If Jayesh, like Dhyanesh, was not aware of the Blast incident for ‘some’ time, then the question remains why not. The question also remains what procedures were put in place to ensure that they were informed in the event of a serious incident. Here I also add not just Dhyanesh and Jayesh, but also other members of resort management. How can the resort be said to be well protected when in the event of a serious potential threat, no one of any seniority (not just in management but also in security), can be located or ‘disturbed’? If they were located, when, by whom, and what did they then do (or not do as the case may be)?

    It appears that little if nothing was done at least till the end of White-Robe (let’s say that is at least an hour after the blast), and for an as yet unknown time after that. The question remains why not?

    If Dhyanesh was personally inspecting the Bakery blast site during White-Robe, then the question remains who was taking care of security responsibilities for the resort? Had he already disseminated his duties to trustworthy subordinates. Surely this cannot be the case because main gate security apparently never even new where he was, let alone how to reach him. Still, surely Dhyanesh should still have been present at the resort and immediately contactable by all relevant people.

    If Dhyanesh was at the Bakery blast site some time after White-Robe, the same question remains. Who was taking care of security for the resort? What was being done to ensure the safety of the resorts guests? It seems to me that nothing was being done to ensure the safety of the resort guests, and everything was being done to expose them to harm. If this is the case I really would like to know why. I would also really like to know what will be done to ensure this never ever happens again and that the relevant people are held accountable.

    LoL (Love of Law)
    Detective Swami

  84. Anand says:

    Swami Detective or shall I say Sherlock Holmes, you are missing one point in this. For quite some time after the bombing, it was not clear that this was a terrorist bombing at all. For some time it was considered that this was a gas cylinder blowing up. This happens quite often in india and in Pune. Check the news report from that evening. It took hours for the Indian police to come to the conclusion that this was indeed a terrorist attack.
    That would put everybody’s actions in a different light, wouldn’t it?

    And the saturday night party at the Multiversity Plaza was attended by very few people. After all the roads were closed etc.

    About 200 people also attended the concert with Chinmaya and Karunesh at Lane 7.

  85. vigyano says:

    Anant: You are right about the cilincer interpretation but safety guards have to realize the other options, however our comments are about compasion! (However on the site people were right away convinced it was a bombblast).

    Futhermore, It really was a mess on the blast site that evening. Our Taiwanese friend was laying on the far end of the site. All ambulances and rickshaws were already gone. The only car left was a police car in which (as far as I could see in the dark) people were loading mutilated dead bodies and body parts. So I asked them to concentrate on the two victims who were still alive. Our friend and someone who lost both legs but still seemed living. Furthermore I assume there was some central coordination between the hospitals, which directed the police car to the Sassoon hospital.

    About Amrito: I think you are right that he wasn’t informed! However, that wasn’t the problem to us. The problem was showing incapable to listen, communicate and to act conform. I deemed to see a man who seemed very afraid to take real responsibilities.

    Our question was; why does the resort collect, our names, addresses en telephone numbers otherwise . Suppose the blast had been in the white robe Auditorium and also nobody knowing what to do?

    What showed up is, that there was nothing that looked like a emergency of safety plan. No instructions to the gate workers, no backing up of Dhyanisch , no mandated access to the system etc etc.. All okay for me if it had been policy, but it remains very strange because it was known for month that the resort and the Chabad house were hard targets on the terrorists list..

    Personally I struggled with the question: what are the real priorities in the heads of our OIF board-members, those who have the end responsibility for safety of the Resort guest? Is it money, the stock market, a personal safe old age, or simply rage against a non understanding and inferior outside world? So what is going on there???

    Anand what is your story of that evening? Were you in the White Robe? What did you see en hear afterwards? You also went to the blast site I understand.

    Sw Detective: maybe we have to communicate the smaller details directly via the mail (dorenbosch@xs4all.nl). I like to support you main conclusion about the safety of the Resort. The management really have to learn from it and in my eyes they have to communicate future strategies, not loosing the credibility to future visitors. I wonder if they have the ability to do so, To me it seems that their vision of the world is heavily mutilated during the 20 years of disconnection to what people feel outside.their world.

    About Dhyanesh. As we know he isn’t part of the Inner circle but nevertheless is the only real connection to the outer world. He was the only one who directly expressed heart, manners and compassion. Nevertheless I think that in safety terms, thing went really really wrong that evening.

    I also think Dhyanesh and Jayesh were in a meeting and not in the white robe that evening. At the time we arrived at the gate (ca. 20.15 hours) Dhyanesh wasn’t there anymore. There had been a call from Sannai they said). He wasn’t to be reached by phone, and seeing the conduct of Amrito, he neither Jayes (!) were informing the White robe. Actually the Resort was a sitting duck to potential terrorism that evening. And we all have to be very happy that it wasn’t part of their program that evening.

  86. vigyano says:

    Anant: You are right about the cilincer interpretation but safety guards have to realize the other options, however our comments are about compasion! (However on the site people were right away convinced it was a bombblast).

    Futhermore, It really was a mess on the blast site that evening. Our Taiwanese friend was laying on the far end of the site. All ambulances and rickshaws were already gone. The only car left was a police car in which (as far as I could see in the dark) people were loading mutilated dead bodies and body parts. So I asked them to concentrate on the two victims who were still alive. Our friend and someone who lost both legs but still seemed living. Furthermore I assume there was some central coordination between the hospitals, which directed the police car to the Sassoon hospital.

    About Amrito: I think you are right that he wasn’t informed! However, that wasn’t the problem to us. The problem was showing incapable to listen, communicate and to act conform. I deemed to see a man who seemed very afraid to take real responsibilities.

    Our question was; why does the resort collect, our names, addresses en telephone numbers otherwise . Suppose the blast had been in the white robe Auditorium and also nobody knowing what to do?

    What showed up is, that there was nothing that looked like a emergency of safety plan. No instructions to the gate workers, no backing up of Dhyanisch , no mandated access to the system etc etc.. All okay for me if it had been policy, but it remains very strange because it was known for month that the resort and the Chabad house were hard targets on the terrorists list..

    Personally I struggled with the question: what are the real priorities in the heads of our OIF board-members, those who have the end responsibility for safety of the Resort guest? Is it money, the stock market, a personal safe old age, or simply rage against a non understanding and inferior outside world? So what is going on there???

    Anand what is your story of that evening? Were you in the White Robe? What did you see en hear afterwards? You also went to the blast site I understand.

    Sw Detective: maybe we have to communicate the smaller details directly via the mail (dorenbosch@xs4all.nl). I like to support you main conclusion about the safety of the Resort. The management really have to learn from it and in my eyes they have to communicate future strategies, not loosing the credibility to future visitors. I wonder if they have the ability to do so, To me it seems that their vision of the world is heavily mutilated during the 20 years of disconnection to what people feel outside.their world.

    About Dhyanesh. As we know he isn’t part of the Inner circle but nevertheless is the only real connection to the outer world. He was the only one who directly expressed heart, manners and compassion. Nevertheless I think that in safety terms, thing went really really wrong that evening.

    I also think Dhyanesh and Jayesh were in a meeting and not in the white robe that evening. At the time we arrived at the gate (ca. 20.15 hours) Dhyanesh wasn’t there anymore. There had been a call from Sannai they said). He wasn’t to be reached by phone, and seeing the conduct of Amrito, he neither Jayes (!) were informing the White robe. Actually the Resort was a sitting duck to potential terrorism that evening. And we all have to be very happy that it wasn’t part of their program that evening.

  87. vigyano says:

    Anant: It really was a mess on the blast site that evening. Our Taiwanese friend was laying on the far end of the site. All ambulances and rickshaws were already gone. There only car left was a police car in which (as far as I could see in the dark) people were loading mutilated dead bodies and body parts. So I asked them to concentrate on the two victims who were still alive, our friend and someone who lost both legs but still seemed living. Furthermore I assume there was some central coordination between the hospitals, which directed the police car to the Sassoon hospital.
    About Amrito: I think you are right that he wasn’t informed! However, that wasn’t the problem to us. The problem was that he probably was doing what he thought was best. Actually showing incapable to listen, communicate and to act conform. I deemed to see a man who seemed very afraid to take real responsibilities.
    Our question was; why does the resort collect, our names, addresses en telephone numbers otherwise . Suppose the blast had been in the white robe Auditorium and alos nobody knowing what to do? . What showed up is, that he didn’t know what to do and that there was nothing that looked like a emergency of safety plan. No instructions to the gate workers, no backing up of Dhyanisch , no mandated access to the system etc etc.. All okay for me if it had been policy, but it remains very strange because it was known for month that the resort and the Chabad house were hard targets on the terrorists list..
    Personally I struggled with the question: what are the real priorities in the heads of our OIF board-members, those who have the end responsibility for safety of the Resort guest? Is it money, the stock market, a personal safe old age, or simply rage against a non understanding and inferior outside world? So what is going on there???
    Anand what is your story of that evening? Were you in the White Robe? What did you see en hear afterwards? You also went to the blast site I understand.
    Sw Detective: maybe we have to communicate the smaller details directly via the mail (dorenbosch@xs4all.nl). I like to support you main conclusion about the safety of the Resort. The management really have to learn from it and in my eyes they have to communicate future strategies, not loosing the credibility to future visitors. I wonder if the have the ability to do so, To me it seem that their vision of the world is heavily mutilated during the 20 years of disconnection to what people feel outside.their world.
    About Dhyanesh. As we know he isn’t part of the Inner circle but nevertheless is the only real connection to the outer world. He was the only one who directly expressed heart, manners and compassion. . Nevertheless I think that in safety terms, thing went really really wrong that evening. I also think Dhyanesh and Jayesh were in a meeting and not in the white robe that evening. At the time we arrived at the gate (ca. 20.15 hours) Dhyanesh wasn’t there anymore. There had been a call from Sannai they said). He wasn’t to be reached by phone, and seeing the conduct of Amrito, he neither Jayes (!) were informing the White robe. Actually the Resort was a sitting duck to potential terrorism that evening. And we all have to be very happy that it wasn’t part of the program that evening.

  88. Swami Detective says:

    Anand in my article I said the following. There is no defence here that the Bakery blast may have been a gas explosion accident. The reason is that given the terrorist threat and the scale of the Bakery disaster, one should surely err on the side of caution.

    I understand that it was considered a possibility by some people that it may have been a gas cylinder blowing up. I think it highly unlikely that the police never also immediately entertained the possibility of it being a terrorist incident, especially considering the recent information about Pune (and the Osho Resort) being a terrorist target.

    You mention a concert in Lane 7. I would be surprised, no I would be amazed, if the people who attended or played at the concert knew of the utter devastation that happened just down the road.

    You also mention that the party wasn’t really a hit. You are being stupid here. If someone did sneak over any of the vast perimeter of fencing and dropped a little bag beside the DJ that night, then Anand determines that that would be cool. Of course what if at 7pm a team of highly trained terrorists walked down the road to the resort with grenades and machine guns, and wiped out everything in their path. What if they then walked into White-Robe? Do you think the guards little bamboo stick would have done much to avert disaster? Get real you idiot!

    Vigyano I am not really into email or Fakebook, but perhaps I should try to get an account. Anyhow this little chat is at the bottom of a 3 articles old little website, so it is probably just you, me, and of course Anand.

    When you arrived around 8.15pm (around the time of White-Robe finishing), Dhyanesh was not there anymore. I assume this means that he passed by the main gate in responding to a call from a Sannai guard. I can understand the motivation to go to Sannai and perhaps even to the Bakery (just a few metres round the corner). The thing is that the end of White-Robe was some 80 minutes after the blast. During this time, everyone in White-Robe were ‘sitting ducks’. It would take not more than a minute to reach the Bakery on foot (running on adrenalin) from main gate.

    For the uninformed the gas cylinders are locked up in a small room round the side of the Bakery (with doors made of sheet metal). I think it would be quite obvious almost straight away (to anyone that knows the Bakery) whether or not any of the cylinders blew up. Presumably the doors would have been damaged, and in an outward direction. The devastation being what it was, with the outer retaining wall being partly wiped out, then of course there would not be any doors to speak of.

  89. Swami Detective says:

    The Sannai guard presumably tried to contact someone higher up as soon as the blast took place. If I was the Sannai guard I would try to either contact main-gate security, or Dhyanesh directly. From what I here of main-gate security, it would seem that Sannai guard contacted Dhyanesh directly. You see if the Sannai guard tried to get into contact with Dhyanesh but could not do so, the presumably the Sannai guard would have contacted main-gate security, and it would have been them who made efforts to contact Dhyanesh. From this I draw the conclusion that Dhyanesh would have been informed of a major situation at the German Bakery just after the blast took place. Dhyanesh then presumably immediately left whatever he was doing, and went to Sannai, passing main-gate security on the way. If this was the way things went, I would be interested in knowing what Dhyanesh said to main-gate security. I also find it strange the main-gate security could not contact Dhyanesh, not even a beeper (ever heard of mobile phones)? Was the phone at Sannai out of order, though working just shortly beforehand?

    If Dhyanesh did receive a phone call from Sannai guard just after the blast, and if he did not immediately respond then I would like to no why. Perhaps he was in a meeting at the time with Jayesh. The Sannai guard is say as the crow flies around 80 metres from the blast. I assume the explosion would have been quite loud from that distance. I also assume that the mayhem (the screams etc) would have also been particularly troubling at that distance. I am a betting man. I bet that the Sannai guard ran the 20 yards or so to the corner of North Main Road and had a little peak at what happened. Wouldn’t you? What do you think he would have seen? I heard one body was blown across North Main Road and into a neighbouring residential society. The carnage, the smell, the smoke, the fire, the screaming, would all have been unimaginable. From the corner of North Main Road, at a distance of lets say 70 metres, I can bet the imagery would have been very clear. I assume from this that the Sannai guard would have made some basic facts very clear to Dhyanesh, that would have left little doubt in his mind about the serious nature of the incident. Really, given the recent and repeated information passed to the resort from the police about the possibility of a terrorist attack, and assuming the Sannai guard said there was a loud explosion and agonizing screams and utter mayhem etc., then surely it should have immediately been flagged as a possible bombing. Surely it should also have been immediately flagged that it may not be an isolated incident. I accept it may also be considered a gas cylinder blast, but under the circumstances surely the priority should have been given to treating it as a possible bombing. In this event one thing I certainly would not have done is ran to the blast site without first discussing the situation with main-gate security. I would also certainly have not run to the site without enacting the emergency security plan (that was widely touted in the media as being invincible).

    Again I repeat, if Dhyanesh did receive a phone call from the Sannai guard just after the blast, and if he did not immediately respond, then I would like to no why. If he was in a meeting with Jayesh when he took the call from the Sannai guard, then presumably he passed on this information to Jayesh. Again I repeat, surely the information from the Sannai guard would have been of a most troubling nature. Given the preceding threats of terrorism, if someone was just 100 yards from the Bakery blast, I am sure that if they immediately phoned me, they would have convinced me that it was in all likelihood a major terrorist bombing. In the back of my mind I would also have considered the pitiful state of gas cylinders in India. But then again, the German Bakery’s cylinders are locked up in a small compartment with metal framed and metal sheeted doors for protection.

    If Dhyanesh passed the information he received from Sannai guard immediately onto Jayesh, then what did Jayesh then do? One active thing that I have heard he did was get Sudheer to ban the sannyasin who tried to get the DJ to lower the music so he could inform the party goers of what just happened at the German Bakery. The only other active thing I have heard he did was get out of the country.

    From what I can glean, Jayesh (or perhaps better to say the management in general) tried to pretend that nothing happened, and hope that it would all blow away. It has nothing to do with them. Just make it business as usual and ignore the bad stuff (even if it has direct implications for the resort). Sweep it under the bed mentality.

    Nadia was an Osho sannyassin but not a real one. She was with that nutty swan Zen Dolano women down the road anyhow. (Of course Nadia no doubt was first drawn to Koregaon Park because of the Osho resort). Who cares about that Thai guy, oops that Taiwanese guy. The Bakery, well it was just a dingy little place anyhow. It was full of prostitutes, drug addicts, and banned Osho sannyassins.

    I get all this, but what I do not get is why management appears to have done nothing to protect its very own clientele. Actually it appears they did everything possible to put them at risk of serious harm. What about your brand image?

    I read about this guy Abhay who got banned and threatened and assaulted for complaining about the state of the water. Last time he was in town he lived under a bench at the German Bakery. He fits the description of a German Bakery loser. He’s a drug addict, a banned Osho sannyasin, and I suppose he must also visit prostitutes. Oh yeah, and he is also a dangerous and violent criminal. It just can’t be true all those terrible things Abhay has been saying. As if the resort would let its visitors drink contaminated drinking water (and in India mind you). As if the resort would have Abhay banned because he wanted to fix the water. Utterly absurd!!!

    You know what, I bet it’s just like the water! Shantam saw the connection straight away.

    LoL

  90. vigyano says:

    Sorry about posting the same story three times in a row. Like me, my computer sometimes has that specific bad day.

    Swami D: I think you’re right by emphasising that the resort management did less or nothing that protected its guests and that, by doing so, they put all at risk of serious harm that night.

    What we saw that evening was personal intuitive behaviour and panic out of fear for panic. There were no traces of an emergency plan and if there was one (on paper), it wasn’t communicated well and certainly not rehearsed in reality on some regular scale.

    This raises a question about the future? The perpetrators of the German Bakery Blast aren’t captured yet. So, are they still around? Did they delete the Resort as a target on their list or are they just waiting for the next season? And if so, how to protect a place like the Osho Resort, still accessible from all sides if you really want to. What about a detail as the maroon robes, ideal to smuggle anything inside? And less a detail, what about this management, seemingly locked up in personal interests and (rupee-?) networks? Seemingly loosing contact with the real world outside, alienated, some drinking and some possibly mentally traumatised as i.e. Jayesh by what he went through in the Mumbai attack?

    How does this future look like? To me its a dangerous picture,not very suited to sweep under any carpet or what so ever. So, what to do being in charge here? Not an easy question to me, also realizing the way the Indian police functioned till now. (see i.e.: http://www.epapergallery.com/IntelligentPune/2Apr2010/Enlarge/page8.htm and also page 9 and 10)).