Sannyas News cannot but note that the tradition of celebrating the brithdays, etc of gurus in India goes back a long way. Every day should be a celebration, as the enlightened say, and to magnify just one day, or one hour, can act against continuous celebration consciousness.
However we are happy to publish here a view with a different perspective from Shantam.
Osho: Birthday Blues
Since Osho came back to India and even before in Pune one, December became the peak month for sannyasins to fill the streets of Koregaon Park, Pune.
Winter in Europe, Xmas fever and the birthday celebrations of a Sagittarius Master, it was a tailor made opportunity to be in Pune. Some kind of enigmatic energy used to fill the atmosphere.
Once the Osho birthday celebrations were taken away from the main system, Vibes in the atmosphere of Pune have become lethargic. What is the psychology of this change?
As far my understanding is, the present spiritual scene in the world is influenced by the two great, yet very different beings of our time, J Krishnamurti and Osho. The influence of these two gentlemen is like the influence of Microsoft and apple on the information technology at the present day.
JK did not create any kind of master disciple bonding, neither any solid organisation as it was clear that these two institutions breed Mosquitoes of control and power. So he was sharing his vision in a loose format. Teaching was thought to be complete, and any Foundation under his name could go on reproducing and distributing his books. Any kind of rituals were not encouraged, neither were his ashes preserved. In a lay man´s term, it is like a man who goes on making love till his last, but always with proper contraceptives.
Osho had the opportunity not only to watch other spiritual organisations But also JK´s working too.
So He created His own kind of operating software, loaded with traditional terminology and ways, yet quite fitting with the needs of modern man. His was quite a daring experiment.
What has happened after Osho´s death is quite an anti-climax, at least I feel like it is. It seems the Late J Krishnamurti has replaced the soul of Osho´s work.
As if that is not too difficult to tolerate, two gentlemen who imposed the birthday and other changes are behaving more like a Vatican, but in a non Vatican form.
It seems they are so afraid not to allow any kind of rituals and tradition to take roots because they are afraid another Christianity could take place. In their brain Xmas and the Osho birthday celebration ring the same bells; truth is left aside and dead men are revered.
But they have forgotten one fact. Xmas was created by the priests and not by Jesus Himself. Is there somewhere any reference when Jesus was celebrating his birthday with his people? Whereas a Week long festivity around His birthday was Osho’s Idea and by deleting this, the priest’s mind is entering in reverse mode.
If it becomes possible to bring forward Jesus and Buddha’s time and teachings through photos and videos, I am sure people will follow that rather than the imposed versions. In Osho’s case, all is well documented in its original form, so my idea is that once the powerful lobby leaves the stage, the scene should revert back to its original format. The future should recreate the vibes of Osho’s time, rather than the present imposed changes. Changes are good when they add more features. Cutting the wings of free birds are not natural changes, but the sheer brutality and aggression of stronger species.
Let Celebration be in the air. It is the 11th December….
I wonder, if Jayesh does not like Osho celebration days, took down the carnival,
took most of Osho pictures down, all for the reason not to create a new religion-
why do we still have maroon robes, white robe meditations (in the proper white tones!), facilitators in black robes and white belts?
Is he not creating again a religion, but a religion based on the new popes of Jayesh and Amrito?
And Shantam thank you- I celebrated Osho’s birthday silent today…..
Anand wrote : “why do we still have maroon robes, white robe meditations (in the proper white tones!), facilitators in black robes and white belts?”
Probably because Osho explicity asked for this.
I made my own birthday celebration. Watching a couple of youtube clips with Osho (something I should do more often) and dancing to one of my old Oregon muscic tapes (“Magic In The Air”). And I did that because it felt right to do so.
I can certainly see and respect Jayesh and Amrito’s point too, I feel they are being courageous in trying to avoid sentimentality and nostalgia around Osho, trying to take things forward instead of turning Poona into a mausoleum (which definitely would have been the easiest way to continue).
Biut as Osho often said: sannyas is an individual love affair. How beautiful it all could be if more sannyasins realized that and accepted that there are different views and ultimately everyone must folow his/her own way. This freedom, that there can’t be any rules on the road to the Ultimate might be one of Osho’s greatest contributions to the Spiritual life.
And by the way have Amrito and Jayesh ever said not to celebrate Osho’s birthday? Have the said more than not to celebrate it at the resort?
Celebrations, Meditations, and work.
Osho Resort is the Model for all these.
We can carry the flavor of it in our home.
But more it can spread when the people are having bread to eat, home to live.
Osho had also given in his vision about the Problems of India and World that is Poppulation explosion, Climate Change due to deforestation and nuclear radiations, and incessant errosion of natural resources..
How can Osho People be not touched by these issues. As the Nullah Park Garden is created as a mark of Osho vision why not it be spread on large scale… Technically and with other support from Osho Resort and Centers all over the world.
This will be true celebration of Osho BirthDay… In 20 Years What Do we have on our List as of Now.
If the living principles of religion had been saved so many religions would not have come into being in this world. But these cannot be saved, because all kinds of disturbances gather around and ultimately cause them to lose all their potential. Then, when the conditions on one side are broken, the promise on the other side also breaks. It is a mutual understanding arrived at by two parties. We have to keep our side of the agreement; then only does the other side respond; otherwise the promise will not be fulfilled and the matter ends there.
For instance, if while leaving my physical body I say to you, ”Remember me and I shall be there” – but if you never think of me or if you throw my picture into the dustbin and forget all about it, how long will our agreement last? And if this agreement is broken on your part there is no need for me to keep it. So such agreements are always broken. So the occult process of installation of an idol holds a meaning, but its significance is based on various tests and indications that determine whether the idol installation has been a success or not.
Osho
In Search of the Miraculous
Bodhi heeren
you have said it beautifully .
noone is preventing anyone from celebrating Osho ‘s birthday anywhere they ‘d like except inside the resort of course , but that is the resort’s business and the path they have chosen ; and I respect it .
I don’ need to put aside any special day to celebrate life in all its dimensions which is to me what Osho spent his whole life teaching us .
Bodhi heeren , I sense that you had a great time
creating your own Osho birthday celebration ; probably a very personnal thing and that makes it all the more valuable .
Very beautifully said Bodhi heeren..
” they are being courageous in trying to avoid sentimentality and nostalgia around Osho, trying to take things forward”
Like you said they didnt take the easy way out..They looked at the spirit of what Osho said not the words alone and created a environment where meditation and awareness are the core aspects.. Individually anyone is free to relate with the master and express also.. i dont see any hurdles there
“why do we still have maroon robes, white robe meditations (in the proper white tones!), facilitators in black robes and white belts?”
Osho birthday and Osho pictures represent attachment to Osho ‘s personality whereas maroon robes and white robes are meant for altogether different reason..they bring equality and energy inside the resort.. Osho has explained how one is identified with the dress we wear and how wearing a maroon robe makes one drop those identity games when entering the resort for meditation..
Anand .. Was that a Osho quote? The language looks very Osho unlike.. Seems to be very formal language..more a management language
” So the occult process of installation of an idol holds a meaning, but its significance is based on various tests and indications that determine whether the idol installation has been a success or not.”
Krish . You have got a great point there.. But Osho has also asked us to focus on Inner more than developing / taking care of social aspects..While they are certainly relevant a meditator may lose the focus and easily slip into a social service person..
That quote by Anand from Osho most likely is Osho, although the exact reference is not given to cross-check it. ‘In Search of the Miraculous ‘ were talks given in Hindi in 1970 (the ‘early days’), and was one of the first Osho books translated into English.
Anand should give the volume and chapter number, so anyone can, if interested for further contextual expansion of that excerpted passage, do so. There are two volumes of that series.
Also, Osho spoke in a different style in that era, and the English translations all have a certain un-Oshoesque flavor to them — that is, if you are used to Osho’s original English talks from later periods. I think the style of the early translations have a lot to do with that impression — a bit stiff, and not quite as natural and loose as Osho usually comes across as. You can read other translations from the 60′s and early 70′s and get the same feeling — ‘Hidden Mysteries’ is one such recent translation that comes to mind. And there will be many others too, as Osho has instructed all of his Hindi talks to eventually be translated into Engish — a project well under way at present, but will most likely take decades to complete.
Bodhi Heeren (Swami or Ma?),
I wish to answer your comment, which you have put eloquently as a counter logic to the theme of this thread,
but it will be nice to know about you a bit, specially since when you are buying the travel tickets(daily or seasonal) as a seeker on Osho Innner Roadways.
Osho´Bob, it just came in my mind to know from you why you did not visit Pune when Osho was in the body and afterwards.
As one can see from your website, you have decades long extremely profound relation with Osho and his people.
How you were dealing with the temptation, desire, longing etc. to see the whole thing face to face, and that too as an American?
In my third world mind, Americans are so affluent that if they get desire to go for toilet in Thailand, they will take the next available flight, in this urgent case, naturally direct flight.
Osho Bob, I copied the quote from a sannyasin facebook page, so i do not have the exact page nr./ date available. And that series is not in my digital archive of Osho discourses available.
Kranti: I found this quote shared by Veetkam Jasani: Wall photos on Facebook.
Looks authentic to me.
I found the quote important, since it in indicates that our continuing relationship with Osho is based on us doing our part of it. That might be why some people still keep their strong relationship with the master, not depending on him being in the body or not, while others just seem to drop this connection.
The sun always shines, but you do not see it, when hidden in a shadow.
Thanks Anand.. I do see the significance of that quote. I was only thinking about the style.. and why it sounded very different
Oshobob .. Thanks for this info. I am used to most of his later day talks in which his style is more natural and loose as you say .. I can approach lot of earlier days talks with this in mind..
Just to add Anand.. I do agree that lot of things are beyond our normal comprehension..
One example is , In that Shantam-Amrito conversation Amrito was refering to the significance of the white robe meetings and how the understanding is more deeper now 20 years down the line than when Osho talked about it..
here is a letter from subhuti
for Osho´s Birthday wish:
— In RiverIIOsho@yahoogroups.com, “Subhuti” wrote:
>
> Beloved Friends of Osho,
>
> The day has come. It’s the birthday of the man who was never born and never died, just visited this planet Earth between December 11, 1931 and January 19, 1990.
>
> As I write this, it’s just a little past high noon in Rajneesh, Oregon. One hour later, I am sending it to you. (That’s 3 minutes from now.) I’ve meditated, cleaned my keyboard, I’ve turned off the telephone, and I’m ready to deliver the message.
>
> RiverIIOsho is the vehicle that if respected for what it is will take each and every one of you to Osho, to enlightenment in this lifetime. Osho is on board. He is ready to steer this great vessel to the other shore. He just needs your support.
>
> Think for yourself! Have you been inspired this past year by RiverIIOsho? Has it improved the quality of your life? Do you look forward to getting the emails from Osho every day? Do you want more?
>
> No ship can run without fuel. No body can run without food. No voyage can take its passengers to their destination without money. Nobody rides for free. Ask Ratt!
>
> So this is our appeal to you today, on the day we celebrate the day that Osho came to Earth to help us go beyond our miserable conditions. If you appreciate what Osho has done, then this is the day to loosen your purse strings, to open your wallets and to give generously. Keep this great ship sailing. Your money is needed now!
>
> And can you think of a better investment? How much Enlightenment is worth to you? For thousands of lifetimes, you have remained in darkness with no way out. Osho has shown you the way. Here it is on a silver platter. If you appreciate it, then show your support now! Put your money where your mouth is. It takes money to keep Osho working.
>
> If you take it for granted, then you will miss. If you don’t give any exchange for it, how can you accept it? It is a gift, that is true. But in order to deliver it to you, it will take money. Do you think the Internet is free? That the electricity is free? The weather is freezing here. People are having to replace their car parts. I myself just found out the other day that there is a crack in my radiator. The dealer want $629 for a genuine Honda part. Can you imagine?
>
> And if that sounds like a lot and you want a cheaper price, that too can be arranged. You can have an aftermarket radiator put in for $399. How you like those prices?
>
> Our Chief Accountant, the Osho Controller, came back late at night after shopping at Walmart only to find his battery dead. The Triple-A came out to his Broadway Mart, which he owns now for almost one year. And they charged the poor man $117 to replace and install a new one!
>
> Is that the kind of prices you’re paying where you are?
>
> Now these are some top shelf prices…
> as far as I am concerned.
>
> I don’t mean to complain, but last month we were unable to pay our electric bill and our water bill. It was a long story. We had lost our purse while shopping at Walgreens. And the beautiful Walgreens people there on Lancaster Drive in Salem, found the purse and kept it in safe-keeping for nearabout 15 days. Even the $90 was left there inside, no one took anything out.
>
> But in order to find me, they needed to write a letter to me. And they found my address but not my telephone number. (I don’t like talking on the telephone that much. You know me.)
>
> Anyway… um…
> if you can find it in your heart to give to this cause…
> we will be eternally grateful…
> and we will make this guarantee to do our best
> to make this journey worth it to you.
>
> This is coming from a man
> who doesn’t like to give any guarantees.
> Why make promises I cannot keep?
>
> But I can guarantee that if you STAND BEHIND ME NOW
> and support me in my hour of need…
> I will do my best to keep you in touch with Bhagwan.
>
> So if you can’t find a valid reason to hold back, then reach deep in your pockets and give generously now.
>
> Our goal is $10,000 in the RiverIIOsho account by Christmas.
>
> Oh, yeah we are sincere people.
>
>
> Let me know if you have any problems.
> I can help you.
> Then if it helps you, please donate to the RiverIIOsho Cash Fund.
> Like we can operate on thin air!
> Not really.
> It takes money.
>
> So I am appealing to you.
> Call it the United Osho Appeal.
> And we have accountants on board to account for your monies.
> They will be safe with us.
> And we will use these monies to do all we can to keep this great people in tune with their Master.
>
> Everyone has to bow to someone.
> Why not make it Osho?
here my answer:
beloved Subhuti
HAPPY BIRHTDAY::
this is a GIFT from OSHO
OSHO lived in Oregon
and it turned out to be
a DREAM
which became true…
now we should make it
an everlasting dream
which will become
a reality
..A PARADIES ON EARTH
many people
practiced living there…
many people
fell in love with the place
I myself have never been there
but the experiment
inspired me the most
the same property
should be bought back
by those
who control the finances
of the resort in India
…if they have any gratefulness and respect for our master…
everyone in this River Osho
should declare
that they want to move there
and start organic farming
and communal living..
everyone should write to the resort..
more poeple should spread the message
that we claim RanchoRajneesh back
for this experiment..
and we want the resort to pay for it..
Obama should be informed
to make a dream come true.
.so that a commune
by the max size of 50000people
can be established..
so many people can learn
how to create
a paradies on earth..
all this money
which is invested
in weapons and atombombs
can be used
for a better world..
places like this
can be established in Russia
there is so much space…
all governements should give up
dominating
and instead doing
what will enrich the world
spiritually and materialwise
..and OshoRanch
is the right model
for future generations..
thanks
love and blessings
meera
Meera,
When people listen osho discourses of early seventies , it looks like the cause of human misrey is in family and the salvation lies in the commune life, living together, working together, meditating and fucking together and child conceived in this way will have many uncles and Aunts and so on, and world will be full of love….
“all governements should give up dominating and instead doingwhat will enrich the world spiritually and materialwise
and OshoRanch is the right model for future generations..”
My suggestion for you is to write a letter to Tiger Woods, right now any guru can heal his soul and fullfill the long needed deficit of cash in return.
unfortunately Osho is not int he body, otherwise Tiger is the right fish to catch, so much experience and SO MUCH MONEY and 23 million worth of Yacht in service of the Master..
who is Tiger Woods?
if you know him
why don´t you write a letter and suggest
whatever you want from him???!!!
There is no need for special days to celebrate. Sure it makes sense that everyday should be a celebration. This sounds OK on the surface however it has two problems. Firstly it denies the practical. For example in Europe and elsewhere it is freezing cold soon, hence a gathering crowd in a place with a more suitable climate makes for practical sense. It gives rise to the notion of following the rhythm of the seasons, and this includes our inner seasons. To say celebrate everyday and not this or that day is putting a constraint on the inner seasons of our beings.
The second problem is that though there is no need for special days, there is no need to stop them occurring either. This is the approach of Jayesh and Amrito and the Gang. People are not free to celebrate on certain days because of the control imposed by the Gang at the so called resort. Call it what you like – call it celebrate on everyday but no on any fixed one – but that does not change the reality. The reality is that this is an imposition, a control, forced on the freedom of sannyasins. I argue that Jayesh and Amrito and others are clearly coming from a religious perspective. However for those who disagree (and have looked into the matter), I find it hard to dispute the fact that in supposedly attempting to keep the Osho movement free from the notion of religious attachment, they are being dictatorial. The very essence of religious practice is freedom. People come to the resort in search of freedom and yet enter into a tightly constrained environment. This is a subtle reality at the resort, and even for those who simple enter the gate and do the meditations, this reality is still present. Also, these unknowning meditators actually feed the abusive power of management, and hence management has their craving for control satisified; they therefore continue to perpetuate this ugly game.
In the same way, though there is no need to have pictures of Osho, there is no need to enforce a situation where all need to be removed. The actions in this regard have clearly been dictatorial. I find it humorous that (from Anthony’s research) Vatayana had a few pictures removed at the ashram/resort. With no objections and no real reason for their presence, she undertook to remove them all. To say that there was no objection is an hilarious ignorance. Also, to impose this in full (with no compromise) shows an inflexibility typical of dictatorial or tyrannical organizations – an total unwillingness to compromise. Do you see the absurdity of it all. The management forcefully imposed a requirement to remove all pictures of Osho.
People here say that the resort has the right to pursue this approach. Changing a name does not change anything. Osho’s mandate for the Inner-Circle was a practical one. The Inner-Circle has firstly been turned into rule by the two tyrants. Secondlly, their conduct has clearly encroached on matters of the spirit. By their own admission they have done this – just read some of their opinion pieces (complete with Osho quotes/slants). They do not have the right to do this. Yet still people here have the uninformed view that they somehow have certain rights. These rights were not bestowed on them by Osho. Did Anando (Osho’s medium) give them some sort of temporary spiritual power? Did Anando give Vatayana or Sadhana the right and capacity to make decisions and comments with spiritual or religious underpinnings?
Power has been taken from the kind and well meaning, and the ignorant feed the starving and empty souls of the wicked. Fortunately the seasons change.
Yahoo
Abhay
My understanding of what what Osho meant as Celebration is not about dancing and jumping up and down always.. He uses that word more as ‘ acceptance of life every moment as it is ‘. So accepting every moment can not be done on special days . To me equating celebration to festivities / special days is deeply misunderstanding Osho himself..
Just to add further.. Osho way of celebration has nothing to do with seasons and moods.. Those are trivial pre- conditions imposed by our mind to find excuses for not accepting every moment and celebrating it rather tha waiting for special days.
Infact the moment we wait for a special day to arrive for celebrating we have already denied the prsent moment..We have said the present moment is not worth celebrating
Osho even said we need to work on all days and waiting for sunday creates a split. What to say about celebration itself…
what about celebration?
it wil
lcreate a split in your calculating mind?!
your whole life is just a drag from the craddle to the grave
constanly thinking about money..
celebration means
´CELEBRATE LIFE´
don´t waste it in futile thinking….
Osho himself told us to have big celerations worldwide..
as I told you before…
11th dec- 19 jan 40 daysof celebration..
like 40days you are going through the Bardo of death…
21. march.. osho´s enlightenmentday
Fullmoon July ..Gurupoornima
SO CELEBRATE
AND STOPPPPPPPP THINKING TOO MUCH
ABOUT FUTILITIES:::
these are the days to
GO IN
and become AWARE:::
CONSCIOUS:: NO MIND
CELEBRATION MUST CONTINUE:::
Rajneesh is the ONLY disciple who is
doing the right thing…
while you others
are all sitting around
THINKING::::
JUST DON´T SIT AROUND AND THINK
SIT AROUND
AND
DON´T THINK:::
GRANDMA MOSES
Since morning i am unable to open sannyasnews at my computer, everything else is the same, only sannyasnews disappered.
I have not blocked this site and still it is blocked. I thought may be it is a server problem and as mind can think, whether the site has sold its silence or some spy is controlling the system.
What so ever, internet has become such a revolutionary tool that every citizen can express their thoughts and feelings, and many times one can see in the newspapers, readers have better sense than the paid journalists.
In this atmosphare to dictate and control Osho movement with ironfist is really a ardous job, why they are doing it, i am really trying to understand.
(I am writing this through google pages)
Dear Meera.. The following is for you
Celebration on special days has nothing to do with what Osho meant as celebration
” True celebration should come from your life, in your life. And true celebration cannot be according to the calendar, that on the first of November you will celebrate. Strange, the whole year you are miserable and on the first of November suddenly you come out of misery, dancing. Either the misery was false or the first of November is false; both cannot be true. And once the first of November is gone, you are back in your dark hole, everybody in his misery, everybody in his anxiety.
Life should be a continuous celebration, a festival of lights the whole year round. Only then you can grow up, you can blossom. Transform small things into celebration.”
“Your life becomes a vital celebration, your relationship becomes a festive thing; whatsoever you do, every moment is a festival. You eat, and eating becomes a celebration; you take a bath, and bathing becomes a celebration; you talk, and talking becomes a celebration; relationship becomes a celebration. Your outer life becomes festive, there is no sadness in it. How can sadness exist with silence? But ordinarily you think otherwise: you think if you are silent you will be sad. Ordinarily you think how you can avoid sadness if you are silent. I tell you, the silence that exists with sadness cannot be true. Something has gone wrong. You have missed the path, you are off the track. Only celebration can give proof that the real silence has happened.”
Then quite what is going on in Copenhagen and in Bhopal is unreal. Or is it the other way around.?
The Ranch was an illusion that Rajneesh got Sheela to get built so it would fall down It did.
Pune 2 was a nice place
I suppose the resort is too.
But its is not what it was about was it
It never was
It’s not the same is it?
dear kranti
1rst of November is DEATHDAY
Osho gave us these celebrationdays
so
yes…we can
GET TOGETHER
GOT IT?
keep celebrating..
are you in Poona right now?
shantam.. this is the MYSTERY
Shantam:
are you still blocked from access to Sannyas News? We have had no other reports of this.
I am using the coached pages. i just wonder how come on Mozilla firofox, two of my main used sites get the red cross (X) sign.
SO thanks God.. it is a local problem with my computer. If someone tells this lay man how to ge the smooth access again and to turn the red cross into normal, i will be thankful.
When i could not open the sannyasnews, i realised how important this site is for day to day commentry by Osho´s people, and if organisors of sannyasnews make it silence after a purchase out, it won´t do any good.
I am sure, only Sannyasins can dare to bring hard hitting commentries about their mother organisation. The honesty and truth can only come from inside.
When the organisations running the world are becoming more and more transparent, i wonder how long our ashram will operate as if it is dealing with classified informantion regarding military secrets, and that too when Master spoke in the most simplified language about esoteric secrets and made them available for each and everybody.
No Meera. I am not in pune for another ten days . By december last week i will be in pune again
ok kranti.. all the best…
´Priests and the politicians
survive
only
on your blood,
they survive
only
on exploitation.
They are parasites:
ALL
the priests
and
ALL
the
politicians.
OSHO
Xmas is on the way. Even after two thousand years, there is a demand for Jesus´s biography and people are interested in any kind of evidence connected with his life.(Shroud from Jesus’ era found, researchers say. CNN).
influence of one man one book has architect ed the face of present day civilisation
Osho´s people may feel unconnected with this, but still they know the impact of Jesus on them, life after life.
In this context it is amazing to see, how they want to define their relation with Osho. On the one side believing and quoting continuously, Osho never born never died and yet on rational level, convinced too, dead man don´t walk!
On the one side using the present tense for Osho yet ignoring the milestone days of of His life.
YES shantam ..
there are very few
who are chosen
to be
HIS succsessors
Kranti thanks for you opinion of Osho’s view on celebration. I was not quite convinced of your stupidity until I read further and saw that you have backed up your view with a quote from Osho. Now I am convinced. Congratulations, and I might add – to help you celebrate – that this mentality fits nicely with the tyrants in power at Pune and in the Inner-Circle. I have high hopes for you, keep going.
What I suggest you do is help management enforce this notion of celebration of yours. Then what shall we find in Pune (of course this is what is happening in Pune)? It is not that people are not become silent, and in the silence is the celebration. Rather, people are becoming confined into a dull slumber. In my opinion, Osho’s path is the most dangerous of all. On one side is ecstacy, and on the other is agony and confusion. It means people can travel far, and also have nasty mistakes to learn from. The imposition of your view of celebration can lead to a lack and inability to express spontaneous positive energy. It will be suppressed because, as Osho says, every moment should be a celebration. The end result is that everyone will walk around like zombies. Sounds like ancient buddhism to me. Good luck on the path, and please to not encourage others to follow you. However if you are lonely then go back to Pune.
Did Osho allow people to celebrate in the normal sense of the word? Did Osho encourage people to celebrate in the normal sense of the word? Do you think I cannot find an Osho quote that stands in contradiction to your quote and viewpoint?
Yahoo
Abhay
“Kranti thanks for you opinion of Osho’s view on celebration. I was not quite convinced of your stupidity until I read further and saw that you have backed up your view with a quote from Osho ”
Your desperatness tio keep proving pune wrong makes even say Osho is wrong
Do onething . Post this below Osho quote and ask for a vote on whether Osho lied on what he meant as celebration..
” ” True celebration should come from your life, in your life. And true celebration cannot be according to the calendar, that on the first of November you will celebrate. Strange, the whole year you are miserable and on the first of November suddenly you come out of misery, dancing. Either the misery was false or the first of November is false; both cannot be true. And once the first of November is gone, you are back in your dark hole, everybody in his misery, everybody in his anxiety.
Life should be a continuous celebration, a festival of lights the whole year round. Only then you can grow up, you can blossom. Transform small things into celebration.”
Pointing out what is wrong / not acceptable in pune is very different from what you are doing Abhay.. You started off well with specific focus on water contamination and has mover to blaming everything irrespective what it is.. You even refute what Osho meant as celebration..You dont have to quote Osho or debate to see what Osho meant..
Just plain simple …Even if yo understand 1% of Osho and his idea of life and celebration , you would have posted the above message ..
” you would not have posted the above message ..”
Una persona murio en el Osho Center Mexico, lo encontraron en el baño en la noche. Segun me cuentan despues de hacer la meditación dinámica. ¿Como es posible que suceda esto?
¿Que no hay un control de los que dirigen un centro de meditación? ¿Como es posible que lo hayan encontrado hasta la noche?
One person died in the Osho Center Mexico, was found in the bathroom at night. They tell me after doing dynamic meditation.. How could this happen?
Are there any control of those whos running a meditation center? How is it possible that they have found him in the night?
I am really angry about this and i need to comment to you about it, i have sent this letter to Osho. com and posted in facebook.
Whats happening to this so call Osho Centers in the world, only money they want, and now they wants humans life too.
two neo-jackasses arguing about celebration?
“enforced celebration”
hahahaha
break out the hippy crack cartridges,man….
and hey,where`s ny copy of “laffing gas” by charlie chaplin(1914),with charlie as the wacky dental assistant?
om.
Kranti in the sense of celebration that I am referring to Osho is arguably the greatest supporter of it in the history of the buddhas. So what is your point?
Abhay.. I understand we are talking about two different meanings of celebration.
One is the normal use of the term celebration and other which to me is Osho specific. I dont know whether any other master has used the term celebration in such a manner.
My point is Osho had his meaning for what is celebration which is more of acceptance of every moment with gratitude. He uses the word celebration to stress the importance of not only accepting the moment but welcoming it and celebrating it because i have heard him say mere acceptance of every moment is not enough..
Even in that above quote thats what Osho seems to stress..Did not he? ..That celebration has to become a way of life..
Having said that I am aware Osho might have had reasons for allowing specific day celebrations during his time and he used every opportunity , tool to create energy.. There is movie on Osho in youtube where Osho even allowed cow worship and doing pooja to a car..He alowed people to fall at his feet ike anything
But deep down we are aware Osho is not about these things.. He used some methods based on the people he had infront of him.. the initial set of people he had was religious indians..He went along with them until a time when he could drop all that nonsense
Do we mean to say Osho encouraged such things and start celebration such aspects..
there are people who would like to celebrate by bringing cows inside the center on holy days..there are people who do pooja for cars and put malas for every photo they come across..there are people who want to worship the statue of Osho..They would like to see a big statue infront of the meditation center
Where do we draw a line.?. There has been no master like Osho who attached tremondous significance to awareness and dropping superstitions and conditionings.
This is also what Osho said…
“We should make efforts that no sect forms, because sects have done harm to religiousness more than anything else. Irreligiousness has not done harm to religiousness as much as sects have.”
But we may have again differences of opinions on whether celebrating these festivals promotes a religion…My personal opinion is YES.. celebrating Osho birthdays and Death day helps the formation of a religion..
Trust me as an Indian i have seen the negative side of these kind of celebrations.. Millions of Indians celebrate the birthdays of Krishna and Rama and they stink inside.. .. Personally i know 100s of indians who celebrate these days but who beat up their wives and even old parents.
Again Personally i am not interested on celebration on specific days because the very acceptance of such a thing creates a split. The moment you attach special significance to celebrate specific days you bring down the significance of other days.
In my own life i stopped celebrating birthdays and other days including new year 15 years back and i can see what kind of positive impact it had on my daily life..Initially it was not obivious due to conditioning.. By and by mind accepted that each day is beautiful and it stopped waiting for special occasions ..After that i started getting up every day with the same enthusiasm towards life
I dont meant to argue with you here.. To me the real significance is making the celebration which Osho talks to come alive in every one of us..one thing which needed is dropping everything which can create superstitions and religion around Osho…
But it can at the best be an effort.. What actually happens is based on numbers..Few more oshodhars can damage Osho quickly than anyting which we do or dont do..
What a bunch of dumb asses!!!! Arguing about “celebrating”. Yes, Anando, People do die while in the bathroom, taking a shit or shower!!! Another dumb ass!!! Those of you who are new readers to this site— Now you know how sannyasins can fuck up a free lunch!!!
Kranti why am I not surprised you have taken the tack of the old debate: the supposed peripheral versus the essence. Did Osho (or perhaps Anando) secretly transfer the spiritual responsibility for clarifying the essence of Osho. I find it unusual that the Master himself did not leave the matter plain and simple for all to see. Why the complications? Have you ever heard of Zorba the Buddha? Do you have any idea what the Greek Zorba was up to? Do you think he had any interest in your notion of celebration?
It is important to understand why you and I are debating here. The reason is because it explains much about the state of play in general. Kranti, you are your own unique being with your own essential as well as superficial and misguided inclinations. I at least respect that you are following your essence when you discuss the issue of celebration.
Many people have no idea of the notion of celebration in the sense of Zorba the Greek. Celebration can easily become an ugly and fake hypocrisy. I watched a funeral procession down to the burning ghats. Lots of new sannyasins were dancing around in great delight. To me however there was something deeply fake about the event. Later, an old sannyasin said to me that it never happened like that when Osho was around.
So we have it that you have a certain view of celebration that Osho has clearly articulated. Kranti you are not the type of personality profile that fits neatly into the wild debauchery of Zorba the Greek. You are of more conservative and quieter nature than this. Your experience of celebration and also of Zorba the Buddha is different to others. Osho has also articulated your understanding of this. The trouble is that you try and project your personality profile and understanding onto all other types of peoples and paths.
Frank seems to think that you and I are having a discussion/argument about different types of celebration. This is not the case. You present a certain type of understanding that fits with you and has been articulated by Osho. I simple point out that there are other types of understanding – that have also been articulated by Osho.
Jayesh, Amrtio & the Gang have a certain collective personality profile that Osho has also articulated. They feel it in their being, just as you do, that they are following Osho. In a sense it is true, but when they try and force others to follow the same way they get into trouble. When you ignore the other types of people on the path (that Osho has clearly catered for also) you get into trouble. Of course I should here mention that JA & Gang are doing much that has nothing to do with their essence and a lot to do with a mind that has strayed into darkness and ignorance. This of course creates further problems – criminality for example.
In the end your understanding of celebration is one that focuses primarily on awareness and silence. Others have an understanding of celebration that focuses primarily on totality. In the end those that pursue each way without hypocrisy shall merge. Of course there is no reason why the paths cannot be side by side, however the Gang will not allow this. The reason they will not allow this is the same reason you think you are having a discussion with me about Osho’s view of celebration.
I ask you this….why is it that you say that I am criticising Osho? In disagreeing with you and your Osho quote I am not disagreeing in the way you think. The quote you gave is beautiful. If for example I was driving along the highway and out of nowhere arises is a great big build-board sign with that same quote. I would think the quote was magnificent. However if someone is trying to argue their viewpoint to the detriment of other viewpoints I would consider the quote utterly ugly – especially when Osho himself has supported other viewpoints. This is how I have viewed your quote. If an Osho quote is offered without any hidden strings or selfish motivation then this is most beautiful. In the context of justifying your narrow (though legitimate) position at the expense of other positions, use of the Masters words is a grave disrespect to the vast understanding that Osho has shared with so many people travelling so many different paths. Of course you are not alone in straying from your path, and making the path of others thick with slime and muck.
Yahoo
Abhay
For more information about slime and muck click on “osho resort” link on my blog:
http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com
We had beautiful Osho Birthday Celebrations all over India, as reports to Osho World magazine are pouring in daily.
Now is the time to move on to another bigger celebration on 19 January.
(This is for Kranti to start a new thread for discussion)
Osho Celebration 19 January next year will have a series of events all over India. Ma Dharam Jyoti has been invited to Pune to conduct a three day meditation camp at a certain auditorium near Burning Ghat, Koregaon Park Pune on that occasion. Hundreds of Osho lovers in Pune will be participating in the celebration there.
I might go there also.
Abhay.. Thank you very much for the post. I do understand what you are trying to point out. I also agree that i have chosen particular quotes to explain what i understand. Let me allow what you say to sink deeper into me.. Thanks again..
Thanks Swami Keerthi. I am not sure about a new thread as of now..as it may still be a repeat debate / discussions regarding celebration..
What is the general state of play? Do people like Keerti have legitimacy? Kranti has explained previously the basic fear that was presented as the motivation for removing the likes of Keerti. The fear is that people will try and create a religion out of Osho. Yes Gautama the Buddha denounced making even a single statue of him, and now look at all the statues. Especially considering Osho’s stance on such matters it can not be denied that honouring Osho in this regard be of credible intent.
Devotional people it would appear are potentially vulnerable to creating a religion out of Osho. Though this may be the case, this does not mean that such people be denied a path with Osho. The reason is simply because Osho catered for these people and the path of the heart is contained within is offerings. What this means is that rather than removing and discrediting people like Keerti, this path should have been given space and tendered to with care. Of course Kranti makes perfect sense in outlining how people go astray.
Care should have been taken to nurture Osho’s path with heart. Instead what has happened is an all out attack on this path and its adherents. This serves little purpose in the main aim of preventing people from going wayward. Rather, it creates a battle-ground where the chances of everyone going wayward are much higher.
People like Jayesh and Amrito think that Keerti and others have already gone wayward. They do not realise that he is simply following his path, and it is different to theirs. The path of devotion is clearly not wayward from Osho, and I guarantee Keerti can back up his position with many wonderful Osho quotes – though I personally prefer that he does not.
What of all the celebrations of Osho’s birthday that took place under the banner of OshoWorld and Osho Lovers? Do we find here fanatical devotees losing the plot? My sense is not. Certainly the devotee can go astray. Just look at all the Islamic extremists. What of the supposedly Zen like path chartered by Pune Resort and the current Inner-Circle? Do you think there is similarly any risk of going astray? Yes they will not build great statues of Osho, but yes the path is similarly prone to being misunderstood.
The irony is that JA & Gang have actually gone deeply astray, especially in trying to battle with the legitimate orientation of Osho lovers and friends, and especially in the area of mismanagement leading to criminal negligence and further criminality. I suppose they were too busy fighting to bother looking after their own.
Of course the basic fear that the Gang is supposedly protecting Osho from is just propaganda. I do not see their fear being realized in the likes of OshoWorld. The real fear is to lose the power that has been ruthlessly attained. This is the real truth of the situation. Have a look at the position laid out in actions and words by JA & Gang. Their position moves from wonderful religious tones all the way to denouncing any kind of sense of reverence or devotion. Their position is fluid depending on the need, and the need is for power not for protection of Osho’s legacy. This shifting position is indicative that they are weaving a web of precious lies, and that they have not a clue about the truth.
Yahoo
Abhay
“The real fear is to lose the power that has been ruthlessly attained…..”
For Kranti it will not be obvious neither for the people who enter the premises at Pune as a journey to Incredible India.
But fact is few people have crippled the big tree, once ina while kind of tree called Osho; so that they can built the road for their limo.
” What this means is that rather than removing and discrediting people like Keerti, this path should have been given space and tendered to with care.”
Is this not happening albeit in different places..? But if people want to see that only in Pune then its a different issue.. I also agree that a ‘ resort ‘ has its downside in the same way devotion has.. But again going by what Osho indicated before leaving body he prefered to have a resort rather than a place where all paths are allowed as He will not be there to guide..
“going by what Osho indicated before leaving body he prefered to have a resort rather than a place where all paths are allowed as He will not be there to guide..” kranti
I wonder from where you got this information? Can you show a single sentence from His mouth, where He indicates about this resort kind of thing.
To add resort kind of facilties is one thing to turn into resort is another.
It is like someone tells his lover to do as it is done in the porno and week later he gets his wish fullfilled. His girl is really doing it in the porno.
When even the animals in the forest know, there was no weapon of mass destruction, other day Tony Blair has again said adamantly, ” Even without these, i would have send the forces to remove the dictator in Iraq.”
That is the beauty to have the power. Your opinion gets validated, what so ever you say, there are people to implement this, and those who don´t follow are termed as cynical, loser or left wingers.
I will understand perfectly well when J&A claim the responsibilty what they are doing. They can claim all the credit for the investment they have brought in, but by discrediting, what others have felt and seen from their master is putting the very master down.
Through their actions they are saying, ” you guys. You all have listened Him but only we heard Him. He performed surgeries on your eyes too, but it was successful only on our eyes.”
Yes Kranti those that have been removed by force have gone elsewhere and created other gardens. They have not created some sort of devotional extremism – of course exceptions will exist. This means that there were no legitimate grounds to remove them in the first place. It also means that these new gardens have to grow in exile. That they have done is remarkable. Still, they are considered outcast by many, including the many that first come to Osho through Osho.com and populist literature.
Kranti the idea of having resort like facilities seems to have credibility. It is a stretch from this to say anything about Osho’s wishes for streamlining or simplifying his work after he left the body. It is even more of a stretch to say that ‘resort’ and ‘devotion’ are some sort of mutually exclusive notions. There is nothing to say a great devotee will not enjoy resort like facilities. You seem here to use the term ‘resort’ to refer to a material rather than spiritual focus.
Yes Shantam I agree that Jayesh and Amrito must be assuming that only they have truly heard, else they would not have removed all those who objected to their narrow rule. From this it is that if I explain how the protesters have a legitimate position, why would they listen? They did not listen to the protesters in the first place.
Perhaps time is on the side of truth. The protesters have created flowers. Have a look at the leaving the body celebrations being advertised. To me they are almost using it as an excuse to go deep into meditation, rather than to go deep into devotional extremism. On the other hand JA & Gang denounce all such celebration and therefore have no extra impetus for gathering people into high energy meditation. This is rather ironic and totally pathetic, especially considering a meditation camp will be held down near the burning ghats rather than at Osho’s own original ashram.
It may be easy for the Gang to denounce a birthday celebration, but what of a deathday celebration. Cynics of the West can easily object to birthday celebrations. What of deathday celebrations? The concept seems strange, and they even have some weird name for it that I cannot remember. I think it means something like great leaving the body for ever day. This points to something: people in the East are interested in such things and know of things that others do not. This is why people who denounce such things as being excessively devotional need to be careful about what they are denouncing.
Can not people see the absurdity that JA & Gang have created. Osho’s deathday celebration is happening in a rented out Christian complex down near the ghats. This type of absurdity is the cold water in their faces. More cold water comes to light as people see that the resort like facilities are poor quality and degrading quickly….just look for the cracks in the façade for there are many. Yes Osho’s picture may have been just wall-paper to many. The crappy resort is going to need more than a little wall-papering soon.
Yahoo
Abhay
” I wonder from where you got this information? Can you show a single sentence from His mouth, where He indicates about this resort kind of thing. ”
Shantam.. there are beautiful and explicit Osho quotes on the fact he wanted resort kind of place..He even said he is dropping the concept of cummune altogether.. ofcourse i do agree with you and Abhay that ‘ having a resort kind of facilities ‘ is different from having a resort itself..
I also agree with abhay that quite few beautiful medtation places have come up.. Butr I dont know th specifics of whether those placesare creating devotion / religion.. I dont have any info on that .. But i can see the approach adopted by oshodhara atleast..they look like a bad example and what can go wrong
Shantam ..i am not re-visiting old arguements.. but i located this quote for you just because you asked me
” Can you show a single sentence from His mouth, where He indicates about this resort kind of thing. ”
This is what Osho said..
“This place here has gone far beyond being a commune. The commune was an alternative society I have dropped the idea of a commune too.
“Now I want this place just to be a paradise — a holiday resort where you can relax, have a massage…soon there will be swimming pools, larger gardens and lawns. You can play on your instruments whenever you want, at whatever time you want. You can do your own thing.”
From my limited exposure to the scene I agree with the general comment by Kranti about other centres, and about Osho Dhara. Osho Dhara is an example of what happens when you reject devotion and send it to the far corners of subsistence: it gets twisted into a mess, and little can be done about it.
Kranti I am yet to understand why swimming pools, a massage, and a nice garden have anything contradictory with pictures of Osho, with people joining together in deep celebratory meditation on a significant day, or with whatever that might be considered potentially devotional in nature. There is no contradiction, and it is not devotion that is the problem. Rather, it is extremism that is the problem. That is the problem at the resort.
Kranti why do we have just one swimming pool? Did Osho ask that people swim in contaminated swimming pool water? Can I play my musical instrument any time of day or night? I think not. Will I get kicked out for doing my own thing? From my personal experience the answer is clearly yes to that one. As long as your own thing conforms strictly within a narrow profile than yes you can do your own thing.
My understanding is that Osho wanted to create a space where people visited for relatively short periods, and therefore did not create any long term co-dependency problems that typically arise out of communes. As Osho also says, it creates a feeling of separateness from the rest of society. This can lead to a sense of dislocation, a feeling of not belong anywhere else, and eventually of rejection of society at large. You may look at The Ranch as a particularly good example of what can go wrong in a kind of alternative society or commune.
What went wrong with Osho’s new idea? Here you might consider it arrogant to ask, yet I object. Did anything go wrong with any of the other organisational models he implemented? Instead of long term co-dependency being fostered throughout the whole community, it became focused on management. Osho said that there would be a core of people that needed to stay longer term to look after things. Others could come, meditate, celebrate, enjoy, or whatever. The core group of people have become the new cancer. You might think of it like having cancer in the brain, rather than cancer over the whole body. Trouble is, when people come to visit the place, they get exposure to the cancer. Hence the problem is becoming a general one as before.
In my view the place would have worked a lot better if the core group of management were also encouraged or required to only stay for a few weeks. Of course this is a rough stick, the same as it is a rough stick to have sannyasins turned into quick turn around visitors. Many sannyasins who are still some how loyal to Pune will no doubt feel a lack of nourishment from this model. I suggest Kranti that you may also have felt this in your quick trip recently. On the one hand being too immersed creates a drowning effect, while on the other hand one feels starved by shallow and fleeting experience. For example it takes time to arrive in a new place. If you leave before you have even really arrived than little can be gained – other than the typical joy of running away from yourself by going on holiday.
Of course all these type of issues are beyond any naive students of Osho. This big stuff is really up to Jayesh and Amrito. They are refining Osho for us through deep understanding and insight into his work. Of course they have no legitimacy to do this, and all their insights have resulted in is a great big mess.
Yahoo
Abhay
Without doubt Kranti has good intentions, deep gratitude for the master and a very balanced view to understand the complexity of the situation from all sides.
I admire your effort Kranti, to find out the above quotaion from His vast discourses of 1987-1989. Till 1999 things were going pretty well in that direction. The complete control of two people with new set of interptation has bewildered many of us.
And Abhay, what you write many of us can relate too. I wonder why those thousands of people who got the taste of Osho, instead of protesting silently or discussing with their intimate circle of friends, take one step more and send the mails etc. to Mr. J&A.
The collective resentment when it is channalised into postive actions, i am sure the big brothers will change their position too. It just need a click.
” Kranti I am yet to understand why swimming pools, a massage, and a nice garden have anything contradictory with pictures of Osho…. ”
As i understand it is a question of whether you are focused on Osho’s personality or the meditations he gave..
Although I do understand different people have different approaches and are at different stages of growth.. directing one’s energy towards meditations and not on Osho’s personality is acceptable to me ..I am saying this from my own experience in life.. For a long time attachment to Osho’s personality was an excuse for me for not meditating and cheating myself that i have great love for Osho.. I was more interested in keepin a osho photo than meditating until my focus turned inside.. Once that happened i understand Osho better than earlier.. Often i am amazed by the ease with which understanding comes once the attention is fully turned inwards..
” Can I play my musical instrument any time of day or night? I think not.”
Not sure Abhay.. I am not talking about someone playing a musical instument and disturbing others but the general idea of freedom to do what you want .. Thats is only a thoery i think.. What even Osho suggests seems to be idealistic place .. I am not able to conceive of any place where someone has all kinds of freedom..
Sometimes i used to feel in the name of awareness we even restrict sneezing.. The free life Osho lead was a life in his own in a small village with grandparents..Now you will get beaten up if you try to do the things which Osho did.. Like someone mentioned in the next thread he himself paid dearly for being free..
” Osho Dhara is an example of what happens when you reject devotion and send it to the far corners of subsistence…
Abhay .. Do you really see Oshodhara as byproduct of restricting devotion.. The people who are running that show , would have created that place irrespective of what happens in Pune..I see it more as the worst possible thing that can happen to Osho when devotion & other reasons take control.. I never know the background to that organization as it doesnt seem to function in a normal Osho way like other Osho centers..
” They are refining Osho for us through deep understanding and insight into his work. Of course they have no legitimacy to do this, and all their insights have resulted in is a great big mess.”
Is this just a transition phase?
“They are refining Osho for us through deep understanding and insight into his work.”
What bigger tragedy than this can happen on the path of seekers. Somebody is refining the Master for them as if poor osho is a apple farmer and they are the industrialists to supply apple juice to the growing market.
it seems in their mind everybody else is some kind of handicap in need of wheel chair and smooth pathways.
refining Osho…!!!! for us!!!!
i hope Kranti you will withdraw such sentence.
In a way management of Osho dhara and Osho resorts are trying their best to redifine Osho; the way lesbians and gays try to refine the ways of procreation.
Both these institutions grew at the same time and at the great cost of the original experiment. Both have taken the ribs of Osho, as a right being connected through blood and being the choosen few disciples.
From dhara site-
“After Osho’s demise, for seven years the spiritual path illuminated by him engulfed in the dark. With Osho Shailendra’s enlightenment the illumination has returned. I had likened to compare this with the course of Nile River which originates in east Africa, traverses several kilometres and then disappears underground only to resurface again and resume its seaward journey. Oshodhara represents the resurfacing of the stream of Osho’s teachings.”
it means, those who are not joining Oshodhara are the blind people who are taking bath in a dry river abd therefore wasting their life.
and boasting goes further-
“Oshodhara is the latest mystery school where meditation is taught, practiced and researched on scientific lines. Osho Siddhartha is a trained scientist. Drawing from his scientific background, Osho’s vast reservoir of spiritual knowledge, and his own direct experience of God, Osho Siddhartha has chiseled out a technology for step by step progressing towards the ultimate spiritual experience. It could not have been simpler than that. People in large numbers are benefiting from the Dhyan Samadhi programs developed here. The number of those experiencing enlightenment after passing through these programs is growing.”
What a compassion, refining Osho through scientific distillary.
The ads on the side lines of XXX sites, where they make men genitals 4 inches longer in 4 weeks come no where closer to these people.
Resort like facilities have nothing to do with issues to do with Osho pictures or Osho meditations. Also, trying to split Osho along the lines of Osho personality versus Osho meditations (or whatever) is falsely limiting the viewpoint of those who are interesting in Osho as a person. Such people would no doubt not only have pictures of him, but also have meditations. It is not these types of Osho sannyasins that have created the false split. It is the management at the resort (and current and illegitimate Inner-Circle) that have created this division. Afterwards people looking at the situation see the division and then take sides. The division is not a practical reality. Have a look at the type of celebrations for special occasions by exiled Osho groups. There is a strong emphasis on meditation. Using the phrase “Osho’s personality” is what Pune management are doing. They condemn without understanding. Of course they do this out of the need for their understanding to be right, and all other understandings to be wrong. If it were otherwise they would not be great and holy Osho saviours.
Whether or not Osho Dhara is really created out of pushing away devotion is not of concern to me. I was trying to make the general point that this will occur. It looks to me like people at Osho Dhara would have lost the plot regardless. Funny thing is that because of the pitiful situation in Pune, places like Osho Dhara actually look half descent to many people reacting to the Pune resort.
Kranti let us have a look at the issues of what Osho has handed down as a things to do list. Your quote about Osho wanting a resort is well worn. You have quoted it, and I have responded. My response is based on the following. People (including you) have argued that they are simply following Osho’s instructions in doing this and that. In response I have said that actually you are not following Osho’s instructions to the letter. What you are doing is choosing certain aspects that you like, and implementing them.
Kranti take a look at what you have just said in response to my statement about musical instruments. In this case you simply say that it is a metaphor for freedom. Granted I agree, however I also take the statement in its literal sense too. The problem you have here is that you (and the Gang) will argue that some items on Osho’s to do with list are literal and not open to compromise or change. Other things are non-essential, and still other things are actually metaphoric rather than literal. Do you not see that this is your interpretation, and unless you are setting up your own Osho centre, you have no right to impose your interpretation on other people. Of course if other people like what you have done, they will come and enjoy your centre. The current Inner-Circle and Pune Management team did not have the right to do this.
A simple example of the way you (and others) interpret Osho, and then try and impose that interpretation on others is as follows. You have created a false category called Osho personality – as I previously described. You then place a picture of Osho into this category. You have a certain way of looking at Osho’s picture. After a while, rather than look at Osho’s picture you started looking inside. It is your current understanding that the picture of Osho was an avoidance of yourself. Meditation is the essential stuff, and after a while you dropped Osho’s picture and went into meditation.
Your anecdote is clouded in confusion. Firstly you may be of a deep misunderstanding about your own situation. It may well be that looking at the picture of a Master became the constant and subtle motivation to in time look inside yourself. I would argue that looking at a Master is not like looking at a picture of your favourite Bollywood star. Also, and here is the important misinterpretation, you consider that all other people will look at an Osho picture the way you do. However I would say that for many people, looking into the eyes of Osho is a deep meditation. There are many meditations that start off this way, whether it is staring at some object, or into the eyes of another person, or into a mirror. The outer object becomes the mirror into your self. The outer is the motivation and trigger for inner experiencing. Hence Kranti you may be wrongly misunderstanding yourself, but in the least are projecting your way of viewing things onto other people. This is arrogant.
Have a look at what you have said about the issue of musical instruments. You say “Not sure Abhay.. I am not talking about….” It becomes so clear here what your trip is. The problem is that it is not you who is doing the talking here. It is Osho that has made a statement, and you quoted it. Afterwards you tell me “I am not talking about” this or that. Kranti, with respect to Osho’s legacy or vision, I am not really interested in what you are talking about with respect to what Osho talked about. This is your interpretation or misinterpretation. Of course at least you (and I) become aware of your views of what Osho said. In this way we can move forward in exchange. Unfortunately others are not so humble and honest.
Kranti you wonder if the mess is just a transition phase. Mess is always a transition, else beauty and creative and abundance would not be.
Shantam, the Gang have created a good scam. It works well in a corrupt country like India. In this way the first reason that people have not responded is because of doubt. I mean the place still (almost) looks like an oasis. Of course the primary reason people do not respond is fear. Have a look at any dictatorial society. It is run with force and opposition is shut down by causing fear.
Amhadinejad (the president of Iran) said in a recent interview to an American station that the people of Iran are much freer than Americans. This would be laughable if it were not for the brutal crack-downs that are happening in recent times. They rule with force and a climate of fear. He also said that after recent events (opposition up-rising supposedly instigated by the West) Iran is now ten times stronger. The country is in ruins and is deeply divided at all levels, yet he still creates fictions and fear. This is the way of those obsessed by power. This is the way of the Gang.
Doubt is conquered by knowing truth.
Fear is conquered by becoming fearless.
Those that grip and wield power at any cost
are in truth deeply powerless.
Those that contract in fear
are at least not stupid.
Those that live in fear
shall in time reach their natural state
of individual self power.
It is a collective drama.
Yahoo
Abhay
Shantam, Kranti was quoting me in a certain context with respect to “refinement”. It was my joke.
Today is Christmas eve.
As most of the sannyasins come from Christian backgrounds, so i am sure half million of us will be joining their families around the palm trees.
Most probably few dozen people with smart brains will not hesitate to say, ” Why to celebrate the birthday of a man died 1976 years ago and any way every day is a celebration!”
i don´t belong to these extra smart spiritually awakened beings, just being one in the crowd of extra ordinary human beings, i wish to say, ” Marry Christmas, friends.”
Merry Christmas….. Balance is beautiful in that it nourishes and respects everyone…. the resort could have honored Osho by not stripping away all of his pictures etc. while not leaving it a “mausoleum.” Everyone is nourished differently and it was arrogant to take such a one sided approach…. to revere a sage is already an act towards negating the ego. When the ego is abated something more precious and beautiful shines in its place and life creativity and enjoyment can be even more thoroughly expressed,,,, don’t you think? Haven’t we all experienced moments of that? Beholding a sacred image can bestill the mind and open the heart…. beautiful…. there are many ways….. I love them all…….
And banning a birthday celebration… what’s up with that?
Exactly Sudarshi, What is up that?
Please go on asking these littel little questions.
Yeah and wanting to ban people who challenge from posting on this site!!! What up wit dat?
MERRY CHRISTMAS
here more about the resort politicians
http://www.dhyanleela.com/pdf/Rebel%20interview.pdf
The mud elephant leaves no tracks as it wades across the ocean. The Fugs.