Amrito replies to Critics

In the tradition now of over 20 years of being even handed in all the various disputes in that time between sannyasins, Sannyasnews is very happy to publish this exchange of points between Shantam Prem and Amrito. Amrito’s points certainly need to be carefully considered by those who quickly condemn the Resort Authorities.

Shantam Prem:
Jayesh and Amrito you both can have the alibi of being Osho’s closet disciples, so how it is granted to dismantle the Buddha Hall, the only place on this earth where on every square metre maximum number of seekers saw their inner journey taking wings.


Amrito’s reply:
I think the key to all these misunderstandings is one question I never hear asked: What was Osho’s wishes in this regard? As it happens the new auditorium was Osho’s request, first mooted by him in the 1960’s by the way, because the old one was illegal and unsafe and would need to be taken down. His decision. Not ours. And for your information, the place where he spoke the most, where he gave sannyas to thousands of seekers was Chuang Tzu which he himself redesigned, and the spot where he sat, one that most people would want to preserve, in the same way people want to preserve Buddha Hall, Osho had turned into a cleaning cupboard. Similarly when asked by Laxmi whether to preserve his Woodlands flat as some kind of dedicated space, he said no. And when asked if the sannyasins could turn his birthplace into some kind of dedicated space, he also said no. So please try and understand that the job we were given was to implement his wishes, not the wishes of others.

Shantam Prem:
When we look back, you both (Amrito and Jayesh) have changed the very DNA of His work. Photos, books, music, hugs, names, what not.


Amrito’s reply:
This is just not the case. We went to extensive lengths for example to find out if our habit of putting photos of Osho on every wall in the Meditation Resort was a request from him. It turns out that this was not the case. This was our doing, not his. And most often we had turned his photo in a kind of wall paper, not an opportunity for awareness. In fact such was the unawareness about this, one huge photo that was placed at the gate for six hours in 1990, was still there by default 10 years later and no one knew why. And when it was removed it took about six weeks before anybody even noticed. And every single night, as he specifically requested, we have the Osho videos playing, so anyone who wants to imbibe his spirit can, just as he has asked.
His books are more available and read around the world by a factor of about 100 plus since the time when Osho was in the body. Music? We have exactly the music Osho has asked for. Hugs? Who has ever said anything about hugging? Names, you keep the name you wish to keep, we keep the names we wish to keep. What is the issue here?

Shantam Prem:. Are you really sure about the concept of a Meditation Resort without any devotion to His energy.


Amrito’s reply: Firstly the concept of the Meditation Resort is from Osho. His choice which he articulated in public and which we have implemented. And devotion? Our only interest is to make sure that when new people come they understood Osho’s basic message that everyone has to walk the walk themselves and Osho wasn’t going to do it for them.
You are saying we have changed the very DNA of his work. Now how would you understand his statement about the evening meeting, when he very specifically told the old timers who said that they assumed he didn’t mean that they needed to go every night because they had read all his books and listened to all his talks? He answer was that these were not detective novels that you pick up read and throw away, but that “every time you go, your understanding will go deeper and deeper. So, now, after 20 years of doing exactly that, either we were asleep or our understanding has gone deeper and deeper just as he says. In which case, everything is going to change of course, with that deeper understanding.
Do you think we understood the following when we first heard it? No way:
“I want you to drop all games – worldly games, spiritual games, games that the whole of humanity has played up to now. These games keep you retarded. These games hinder you from growing into consciousness, into your own ultimate flowering. I want to cut away all this rubbish that prevents you.
 I want to leave you alone, absolutely alone, so that you cannot take anybody’s help, so you cannot cling to any prophet, so that you cannot think that Gautam Buddha is going to save you. Left alone – utterly alone – you are bound to find your innermost center.
 There is no way, nowhere to go, no advisor, no teacher, no master. It seems hard, it seems harsh, but I am doing it because I love you, and the people who have not done it have not loved you at all. They loved themselves and they loved to have a big crowd around themselves – the bigger the crowd, the more they feel nourished in their egos.
That’s why I called even enlightenment the last game. The sooner you drop it, the better. Why not just simply be? Why unnecessarily hurry here and there? You are what existence wants you to be. Just relax.”
And when this video was shown in the Osho Auditorium last week, it was received by people who really understand this. Not by the shocked audience when it was first spoken. What to do? Osho is an alive current, still moving as that understanding goes deeper. It is not some fixed thing stuck in the past. Osho? The past?

Shantam Prem:
I request you to restore the original version of His work, if not not before His 20th anniversary of leaving the body , than at least in your life time.


Amrito’s reply: Yes, the past is very attractive, but not Osho’s proposal.

Shantam Prem:
Please let the place be run by His 20 people in a transparent way.

Amrito’s reply: Again, it is your mind which mentions transparency. It was Osho’s request that this be done in secret.

Shantam Prem:
I hope once His “workshop of creating Buddhas” is run as it is mentioned in the documentary,” I leave you my dream”, it will be a spring of global spirituality in the age of ipods and face books.

Amrito’s reply
Of course it will. And that dream that Osho is leaving is only just at beginning. You will see.

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464 Responses to Amrito replies to Critics

  1. this is certainly a clever deception and avoidance
    of real questions that amrito could never stand up
    and answer if challenged directly

    this so called article letting amrito of the hook
    as a reply to critics is a farce and a timid deflection
    of real isssues that i have raised in my challenge
    to the inner circle questioning their borrowed authority

    if amrito or the collective 21 inner circle
    have any guts
    or any real intelligence
    or the abliity to respond
    or any authenticity
    or any real authority
    then here stands my open challenge to them all
    to respond to my questions
    for all the sannyas world to read openly…

    if they cannot then they have admited that they are retarded and have no real inner authority
    and are afraid of swami rajneesh and his fire

    osho always maintained that
    borrowed outer authority was impotent

    my challenge is to determine if they are impotent puppets or are capable and authentic individuals
    and have the right to decide on the vision of our beloved master osho

    his vision is not the personal fiefdom
    or property of these retards
    but a priceless gift of compassion
    and an eternal treasure for millions of seekers
    a treasure he has bestowed for the entire humanity and for the survival of this planet and the human race

    and i demand and challenge their authority openly
    come on come on come on
    i am waiting…rajneesh

  2. shantam prem says:

    Because of its discussion area, Sannyasnews has become the most happening portal of Osho’s people.
    Because of sannyasnews, the future of Osho’s movement is shifting from the elites, who were Osho’s this and that to the common sannyasins, His rebels, His passionate people.

    This thread is an opportunity for those colleagues of Jayesh and Amrito, who have the life long association with Osho say from late sixties, early seventies.

    Let these people come forward in response to the points Amrito has raised.

    These are the moments to bring history on the right track. Let His wishes, His vision His insights, His fingers pointing towrads moon guide us.

    I hope Neelam, Satya Vedant, Narendra Bodhisatva, Keerti and many other from the western countries too
    will share their insights.

    Please. please, open your hearts, use the key boards for the sake of His work, the purity of His work. Let the truth prevail.

  3. Good work Shantam and Sannyasnews.com

    Now at least Osho International foundation has the chance to share their side of story and silence all the critics.

    Most of us all the time keep on hitting at OIF. Now is their time to share their clarity on this issue (Provided if they have any clarity or intelligence???)

    A genuine person is never afraid of anyone. Osho Sannyasin means a person who has sharpened his intelligence with awareness and is ready for any challenge.

    It will be great if Swami Keerti, Swami Arun, Ma Neelam, etc also participate and share their clarity on this issue.

    Those who are honest, sincere, intelligent and use the internet will surely join this discussion for the benefit of Osho movement.

    love
    amitabh

  4. Dear Shantam

    I think, In the 4th line of your article, it should be Amrito (OIF), Instead of Amrito (OFI)

  5. Heraclitus says:

    A lot of Amrito’s answers have sense to me and I am an old sannyasin. (1975). Frankly though I dont known why OIF dont fight their corner more, and in this fashion.
    Osho never let things stand still, and it was clear after 1985 that he was intent on making sannyasins, even Bhakti types, independent, and schooled to take total responsibility for themselves. This sort of maturity seems particularly missing in guys like Rajneesh.
    For example Tyohar and Maitreya were banned from the Resort in 2000, but neither of them go on about it. They have gone away and created very healthy communes elsewhere, where most of Osho’s meditations are available, and many say they feel Osho’s presence, or the taste of it.
    Furthermore some here do seem to be quite nationalistic about things Indian, etc. I must say I never experienced Osho that way. he often made fun of the father of the nation, Gandhi, others in authority, and India in general. One had the impression that he thought that India at that time was a backward corrupt country living in a minefield of superstitious nonsense. I would start to believe in these Indian guys a bit more if I saw any of them start attacking the perverse and totally divisive caste system that still stratifies Indian society and which throws India back to the middle ages.
    The ashram in India in the seventies was an international campus that had actually very little to do with the India outside its gates.

  6. Rob says:

    swami rajneesh, it seems that you are a very passionate and sincere person. but have you ever considered that you might be delusional?

  7. Rob says:

    i mean it is totally possible…..you should consider re-examining yourself from a detached point of veiw. this is not a hater’s comment…i am just trying to be honest and hope you honestly look at yourself.

  8. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    lam a sanyasin since 1979 , l agree with Heraclitus about Bhagwan never propagating any nationalistic views but ofcoarse he always said my sanyasins , which may appear contradictory to some , but lam sure Bhagwan wanted these seekers to grow in an open and individual way .
    Amrito does have a point that Bhagwan is alive current , there is no need to gather big crowds .
    There are lot of blossoms from his garden , who are spreading the fragrance in the world .
    Though there is no harm in allowing all his disciples to atleast his sammadi .
    lts good to see this participation .keep it going .

  9. beloved rob

    i am whatever i am…and i am free to be
    unconscious conscious or superconscious

    but i am not stepping on the freedom
    of another individual !!!

    nor am i misusing powers over others
    nor am i misinterpreting oshos vision
    nor enforcing it by threats over others
    nor am i exploiting the legacy of osho to control others

    i am against the misuse of power by the inner cirle

    if you read what i have stated
    in the previous samadhi court matter topic
    it will be abunduntly clear that i am correct
    and have narrowed it down to the core of the issue

    and it is absurd that i am being questioned
    as i have not trespassed over any individuals freedom

    if i was in authority and was dictating over others lives
    i would become answerable
    and would be happy to openly accept any challenge

    strangely always the ones in authority are protected
    and they are the ones who need to be examined
    and their actions need to be examined as they excercise power over the lives of others

    i am willing and always remain open to all questions
    but the matter here is not about me
    but about the powers of the inner circle

    always with love rajneesh

  10. Anthony thompson says:

    I do not know what to say: the chain smoker drunk of Amrito makes a lot of sense to me…

  11. Prem Abhay says:

    I have responded to the Amrito point by point towards the end of the last thread.

    Rajneesh says “strangely always the ones in authority are protected”

    Amrito and the other authorities can secretly conduct their affairs in large part because the people around them put up a wall of defence. These people do not have a clue what the Inner-Circle are doing, yet they think everything is all right. They cannot see the harmful effects on themselves and the Osho community at large, yet they blindly defend and aggressively attack. I challenge all these people to have a good look at what the Inner-Circle are doing and saying before automatically dismissing critics as fools.

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay
    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  12. Prem Abhay says:

    I know what to say to you Anthony…read the end of the last thread.

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  13. Anthony thompson says:

    I answered in the previous thred

  14. oshobob says:

    who’s to know if Doc Amrito even wrote those words in the article above.

    maybe Shantam Prem just made the email up.
    is Shantam Prem for real? anybody can make up an online identity, a facebook account, an email account, a website, post a photo, etc. The CIA people do it all the time. MI6 too. KGB, and all the rest.

    There’s a case unfolding now where the High Court of England is trying to track down a imposter “tweeter” on “Twitter”, who has stolen the identity of a British politician Blaney (who is right-wing), and tweeting left-wing posts under his name — to defame him. Or is it that the politician himself creating the false identity to get publicity for himself, to help win the election…?

    And what about the good doctor himself. How real is he? First we know him as Swami Devaraj. Then he writes an autobiography in 1986, post-ranch, under the name Dr.George Meredith. Then he gets a new sannyasin name, Sw. Amrito. Then we see him in YouTube videos 20 years later as Dr. John Andrews. What next? Will he transgender into Dr. Ma Joanie Georgiana Mercedes? Maybe he’s not even a certified doctor, but a horse vet from Wales…it wouldn’t surprise me in the least…

    Even Osho had stand-in doubles, it has been revealed, at the Ranch, driving a Rolls down those dirt streets of Rajneeshpuram…everyone thinking it’s their master — tears of joy rolling down the disciples’ faces, all for an actor…funny, isn’t it!

  15. Anthony thompson says:

    oshobob… I like you , you are like a half cooked frank

  16. oshobob says:

    hey Tony, good to see you standing up to all the flak you are taking here recently. I could see it coming from 10 miles away though, the tangle between you and the ‘doppelganger’, as frank calls him — Swami Rajneesh…(I had to look it up…so can you)…

    Anthony: non-sannyasin, and likes it that way
    Rajneesh: neo-sannyasin, and likes it that way too

    Anthony: psychotherapist, is proud of his profession
    Rajneesh: vertical energy meditation man, is proud too

    Anthony: academic, PhD in fact
    Rajneesh: slow-walks, lounges in Himalayas, doesn’t like the head stuff too much

    Anthony: scientific no-nonsense slant, would never kiss that green marble — but has a heart
    Rajneesh: devotional attitude all the way

    Anthony: goes to Pune Meditation Resort, and likes it
    Rajneesh: banned from Resort, and doesn’t like it

    Anthony: wears Harris tweed suitcoats, with turtlenecks
    Rajneesh: red-lungi, bare chest — even in Moscow Red Square winter — brrrrrr!

    Anthony: has German girlfriend, athletic yoga type
    Rajneesh: Korean girl, more the Eastern subdued vibe

    Anthony: a man who doesn’t back down
    Rajneesh: a man who doesn’t back down

    Well there ya have it in a nutshell…frank, whadya think, will it be two-ton tony or the doppelganger in the end?

    Or maybe they can be friends and hug at the Resort at the big lovefest coming up on January 19, 2010. Anything’s possible…

  17. prem bubbie says:

    Amrito , I have some pointed questions for you and if you have the courage, sincerity and just plain balls to answer them I would be grateful. First, Have you ever told anyone working at the “resort” to be be violent to either, Sw. rajneesh, Prem Abhay or any others who may have disagreed with you or any member of the inner circle? Second, Why have you banned so many sannyasins and former sannyasins from the “resort”? There are many sannyasins and former sannyasins who learned the lessons from Pune 1, The Ranch, and Pune 2, yet you have not shown any “proof” of Osho’s wishes, that you allege he wanted you and the inner circle to carry out. Why should we believe or trust you and your comrades “running”
    ” the resort”? If what you say is the truth about not holding on to the past and things change, why does that “resort” exist at all? Why not just demolish the “resort”, or burn the place to ashes and move on? Are you and the inner circle also holding on to the past, or as they say “milking the cow”, just to enrich your own pockets with money? Are the things both Prem Abhay and Sw. rajneesh say about you and the inner circle true? Thanks Who love you baby??!!!!

  18. Anthony thompson says:

    thanks oshobob. one more point for youy camparison table:
    Tony: HIMSELF
    RAJNEESH: imitates osho

  19. prem bubbie says:

    Swami rajneesh, Why have to decided to try to look like Osho? I mean it’s obvious you are posing like Osho, even wearing those sunglasses like Osho did. You web site “smells” like Osho, When did this obsession with Osho’s appearance start? Maybe you just had too many mirrors in your house and got fixated on your looks, kinda like an anorexic does when they look into the mirror and see themselves as fat all the time. You, I think kept seeing yourself as Osho!!! Will you consider psychotherapy? I think you need it. Ciao Bella

  20. Prem Abhay says:

    Shantam why don’t you ask oshobob who Harri Om is and get of my case!

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  21. prem bubbie says:

    oshobob: Where did you get the information that Osho had stand-in doubles at the ranch? Is it another farcical tale from some disgruntled, pissed off buffoon of an ex-sannysin who gave you that info? Too many rumors and not enough fact!!! If a person didn’t see it, or hear it directly, DON”T BELIEVE IT!!!!!!

  22. oshobob says:

    bubbie,

    the first tip-off (for me, anyway)on the osho ranch stand-in double story was from the master himself.

    You can view the YouTube video titled “I Wonder if This Could Be Love?” put out by OIF, in an interview at the Ranch by Mike Wolfe, an Oregonian radio personality in one of The Last Testament series with the World Press, c. 1985. It’s on my website too, http://www.livingworkshop.net, under Osho Videos.

    Anyway, Wolfe asks Osho if he was down at a Madras motel just recently, Osho says no. Wolfe says, well then, someone is doing a great impersonation of you, and Osho smiles, eyes twinkling, sannyasin audience laughing, and says, “mmmmm?”

    It was a little later, in an article somewhere on the internet (a review of Deuter I think, the sannyasin musician who did the music for Dynamic, Kundalini, Nataraj, Nadabrahma, etc), by a person who didn’t have a sannyasin name. They mentioned the stand-in story — not with any negative slant at all, by the way — and that’s where I heard it for the second time.

    Actually, it was probably a great idea, with Osho driving on public county roads all the time, an easy hit for any one that wanted to do him harm. Osho himself relates in a discourse that I heard, that there was a plan to assasinate him while he was driving in his car in the afternoon drive-by events — ambush him somewhere on the road. So, a great security strategy — maybe not so great for the stand-ins though — they had to have ice-water in their veins….

  23. Shahriar says:

    How does someone contact Amrito? Does he have email?

  24. prem bubbie says:

    Oshobob, i guess you weren’t at the ranch then. Up close and personal during the drive by’s. Being two feet from him when he would stop in from of me and then seeing him during the celebrations, the “impersonator” must have been a clone of osho. I knew a rich swami who had a personal darshan with Osho during his so-called silent period. This same swami also saw him during drive-by while he was staying at the Ranch and didn’t mention anything was out of the ordinary. Maybe Osho was pulling everyone’s leg by putting out that story. He did things like that very often. Who knows!!!

  25. prem bubbie says:

    Osho stopped going to Antelope in early 1984 because of the threats. He stayed on Ranch roads with an escort at all times. I did see him in Antelope in 1983,. None of the “hostile” townspeople were anywhere to be found.

  26. shantam prem says:

    Just read all the comments of last few hours, more or less cynical by nature.

    Shahriar,
    most of the working people in the ashram have their first name as email address at osho.net.
    So it is
    amrito@osho.net

    You can may be contact President Obama on his black berry..but Jayesh the chairman of the whole show…..person who finds his email address will be rewarded in this life and up up in the sky!

    Those newspaper readers who think, i made up the letter on behalf of Dr. Amrito, please check the date, time and name of the sender in the last thread.

    ANd this thread is not about Rajneesh..it is about the 17, Koregaon Park, Our collective heritage.

    i think every one knows two hanging balls don’t make the whole anatomy!

    I understand the level of jealousy and envy around anyone who will bring himself on the platform.
    Healthy sibling revelery is not bad..but ??
    Is it not so Prof. Thompson?

  27. Great Disciples of Osho – Can we stick to the topic????
    Or is that we all have lost focus in our inner search as well as with Osho.

    I have following questions, If someone cares to answer them.

    1) For how many years or Lives I am been banned.

    Now I am transformed. Can I get a second chance in this life or in next life???.

    2) I want to know how the money is diverted and used for spreading Osho work. Is there any transparency in the system?

    3) Can all Banned Sannyasins visit the Osho Ashram at least on Master Day celebration.

    4) Why Liquor is served in the Ashram.

    5) What is the importance of Bollywood music/dance in the Ashram.

    6) How someone has got the right to object
    a) If I wear Mala
    b) Or call resort as Osho Ashram
    c) Or Use the word Bhagwan
    d) Or sing devotional songs
    e) Or show my reverence to the Buddha Hall marble podium.

    In the end, I would like to say that Osho was never a practical person. He is Spiritual giant but in mundane practical front He is a big failure.

    I won’t mind suggesting that some of Bhagwan wishes which have become outdated now, could be ignored.

    But the problem is complex. Because who will decide which wishes to ignore or to follow. I do not see many intelligent sannyasins on the scene.

    Only 2 kind of people should be at the key positions.
    1) Devotee – Someone who trust Osho completely. That person is not going bring his mind in between and will follow Osho wishes blindly.

    2) Sharp Intelligent Aware person – Who can take the decision based upon the current situation.

    Both these situations have pro’s and con’s as always. But that is the best that can be done. At present we are doing neither of these two.

    love
    amitabh

  28. Prem Abhay says:

    Swami Amitabh says….In the end, I would like to say that Osho was never a practical person. He is Spiritual giant but in mundane practical front He is a big failure.

    I agree that this may be part of the problem with the cult followings that have developed. I say that he lets people be in charge. Maybe in part he does so because he just isn’t very good at that sought of thing.

    Swami Amitabh you will not get the answers to your questions because this secrecy is the establishment’s most potent weapon.

    A devotee is a devotee, even an enlightened one. In this way a devotee cannot be expected to pick up Osho’s vision – like a successor would. Swami Rajneesh is an example of such a person. Also, despite the criticism to the contrary, he is just doing his own thing as an enlightened devotee of Osho.

    A sharp intelligent aware person – you must be kidding!

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  29. Kranti says:

    ” He is Spiritual giant but in mundane practical front He is a big failure ”

    Amitabh..Good post

    But , What is the criteria for sucess here . Now after 20 years doing a post mortem of things and look failures may not be accurate way of judging what osho knew and what he didnt it

    Again it goes to show He is human and he can not control everything happening around him

    I really liked the way he answered that room bugging issue by saying as an awakened one he know himself not that his room is bugged.. Height of honesty.. I am in Love with Osho for this statement alone

    You say

    ” 1) Devotee – Someone who trust Osho completely. That person is not going bring his mind in between and will follow Osho wishes blindly.

    2) Sharp Intelligent Aware person – Who can take the decision based upon the current situation

    The problem is not what you say as ” At present we are doing neither of these two ”

    The problem is we are not ready to accept each other has their own roles to play.. In short we want either this or that..not both ..

    We are not ready to be a New Man ‘ who has both wings

  30. Kranti says:

    Rather than going back and replying to Abhay in previous thraed i thought i can post few points here ..

    In any meditation center / in any resort / in any school people coming and leaving is part of life. I don’t think Amrito dismissed the question. To me what Shantam asked is more about people who stopped coming because they feel the place is not heart oriented anymore..But that is nothing secret..Thats the core conflict here.

    But Pune understanding is “Osho’s basic message that everyone has to walk the walk themselves and Osho wasn’t going to do it for them.”

    I do accept that the Issue of Hear Vs Heart is bit complicated as everyone has their part of truth..

    But there also seems to be lot of exaggeration of this devotion thing. Recently I was there and I saw people namasteying the Rolls Royce and marbles..No one seems to object it. I saw people wearing mala .. No one seems to object that also.

    Apart from this what other forms of devotion one wants ? May be I can think of devotional programs / songs ? I don’t sincerely know . Can anyone explain exactly what they think devotion is and why they think devotion has no place in PUNE and also what they want to see

    Bringing back physical structures as a way of showing Devotion is different topic altogether

    The simple plain fact is Osho never hanged onto the past..atleast when it comes to physical structures.. We may need it..But Osho dint have any use for them . Once the new auditorium was ready the old was taken out.. There is no end to such things. Tomorrow in the name of relating so many things will be requested to be reinstated..somone may even ask the Mumbai Woodlands need to be brought and converted into a memorial.. what will we do then? Where do we stop?

    Please i am not arguing or leaning towards one side..I am posting my questions from how i see things

  31. Kranti says:

    Again when the resort is said to be functioning as articulated by Osho in public..what is the issue ? Why should we refute it?

    But Amitabh had a very significant point here and to me that point needs to be considered seriously by everyone

    ” I won’t mind suggesting that some of Bhagwan wishes which have become outdated now, could be ignored.
    But the problem is complex. Because who will decide which wishes to ignore or to follow…. ”

    Do we agree that Osho didnt see the need for certain things then but we need them because we have not grown to the extent Osho wanted us to be ?

    Do we still have need for symbols and physical structures etc as a way of relating with the master?

    May be the solution lies in overiding Osho’s wishes and approach..In which case devotees are not actually devotess.. A true Osho devotee has to accept the fact that Osho never wanted devotion ..

    Paradox..May be that is the challenge Osho threw..Being devited towards the master in undevotional way..

  32. Alok john says:

    I agree with Anthony and Heraclitus

  33. Shahriar says:

    “Do we agree that Osho didnt see the need for certain things then but we need them because we have not grown to the extent Osho wanted us to be ?

    Do we still have need for symbols and physical structures etc as a way of relating with the master?

    May be the solution lies in overiding Osho’s wishes and approach..In which case devotees are not actually devotess.. A true Osho devotee has to accept the fact that Osho never wanted devotion ..

    Paradox..May be that is the challenge Osho threw..Being devited towards the master in undevotional way.”

    I don’t think Osho was against devotion. I think that he was against foolishness and many devotional people can use their devotion as an excuse to be foolish, but this does not mean that he was opposed to devotion. Devotion is a perfectly acceptable way to transform yourself. Of course, if that is not your way, perhaps you are not the devotional type, that is ok, but this does not mean that others should be prevented. They may be the type. They may be a ramakrishna or a meera, so why should we limit human beings? I think that symbols and physical structures are important for those people who would not be able to relate to the master without a symbol. Similar to Buddha statues. At first people only worshipped the bodhi tree, but soon, a statue of Buddha became necessary.

  34. Kranti says:

    ” I don’t think Osho was against devotion ”

    It again depends on what we mean by devotion.. To me devotion means worshipping symbols and blind beliefs…Having Osho’s footprint made of gold and having statues etc..

    I dont see expression of gratitude as devotion.. the problem is one of definition..

    Thats why i said expression of gratitude is still available in pune..I dont see them preventing it..

    Yes I agree that it started off with Bodhi tree and Buudha statue became a need.. Thats precisely what Pune doesnt want to happen

    Here it is not a question of preventing anyone from worshipping.. It is not negative action in that sense.. It is a question of sticking to Osho taught

    Again we can ask who has the right to stop people from worshipping.. No one has ..and thats why there are so many divisions and interpreations of what Buddha taught

  35. shantam prem says:


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    It is not so old compilations of Osho^s quotations on youtube.
    Very beautifully made.

    When millions of times, He goes on saying i am not messiah, prophet etc. ; there is not need for some good minded people like Dr. Amrito to play life guard¨!

  36. Kranti says:

    It seems to be a lost cause..the very effort of trying to preserve a Masters like Osho’s work in pure form is frought with contradictions and failure is certain..

    It is not only because Osho has contradicted himself so much and also because ‘ religion’ around a master is bound to happen at some time or other no matter whether he is Buddha or Osho.

    Osho said ‘ Be a christ , Dont be a Christian ‘

    For his own work he said ‘ Zorba the Buddha ” but i am not sure whether he said anything like ‘ Be a Ramana the Chuang Tzu ‘

    Merging materialism and Spritualism seems to be Ok. But merging Bhakthi and Wisdom seems to be difficult in practical terms..

  37. Kranti says:

    One question to you guys.?

    Did Osho allow people to fall at his feet & touch ?..

    Not later days but what about early days ?

  38. Anthony thompson says:

    Amitabh you ask me to stick to the topic.. I´d rather speak against rajneesh…it is much more fun than what you sugest discussing: why they serve alcohol at the ashram and they dance bollywood.
    come on! are you Indian? you forgot to mention why people have sex if they are not married and why they do giberish in the holy place of samadhi…

    Shantam you ask me about the psychological condition of jayesh and amrito.
    Let me tell you something. they were given a power by Osho, that they could have used for their own ego-trip. they could have become the 21 holy people, like the mother in auroville or the people who take care of meher baba legacy. Instead they chose to consciously remove themselves from that position of spiritually more eveolved people ( which was the way people relñated to them when osho was alive) and decided to work for what they thought was their manstrer´s wishes. I admire that.
    I do not like the fact that they are not frontal when they implement poilicies, and I do not like banning policies, but I did not like it when osho was alive neither.

    I am, not into worshipping osho and sing songs style “oooh we miss you so much”. so the current state of affairs is what I agree with… with all my criticism you have heard me say many times shantam

  39. Alok john says:

    Kranti wrote

    “Did Osho allow people to fall at his feet & touch ?..

    Not later days but what about early days ?”

    There is a documenary called Bhagwan from ’75 which has people queuing to touch His feet on his birthday. But as Amrito says — the past is the past.

  40. Anand says:

    Say what you will…Amrito is participating in his way in the resort activities every day. Jayesh is flying on and off from UK to India every month. I heard he is overseeing the new constructions at Basho very hands on. We do not like their style, but they seem very dedicated.
    While this forum has their minds cooking by the hour…..for months!
    Osho therapists are roaming the world and sharing their message of love and meditation. Osho books and videos are being published by major publishing houses globally. Millions must been doing Osho Meditations. Seed by seed
    Osho’s dream in unfolding.
    While a small group of frustrated Osho seekers are continuously moaning and groaning on sannyas news and now have in their midth the ultimate lunatic, Swami Rajneesh himself..back from Russia.
    I prefer the likes of Jayesh getting away with religion to whatever would have happened instead like Religion a la India with devotion and kirtan and the whole tralala.

  41. Kranti says:

    Anthony & Ananad – Superb posts.. best of the posts in the last 5 months or so i had seen

    For my own enjoyment i will copy paste without trademark

    ” Let me tell you something. they were given a power by Osho, that they could have used for their own ego-trip. they could have become the 21 holy people, like the mother in auroville or the people who take care of meher baba legacy. Instead they chose to consciously remove themselves from that position of spiritually more eveolved people ( which was the way people relñated to them when osho was alive) and decided to work for what they thought was their manstrer´s wishes. I admire that. ”

    ” Say what you will…Amrito is participating in his way in the resort activities every day. Jayesh is flying on and off from UK to India every month. I heard he is overseeing the new constructions at Basho very hands on. We do not like their style, but they seem very dedicated.
    While this forum has their minds cooking by the hour…..for months!
    Osho therapists are roaming the world and sharing their message of love and meditation. Osho books and videos are being published by major publishing houses globally. Millions must been doing Osho Meditations. Seed by seed
    Osho’s dream in unfolding.”

    Wow !!!

  42. Kranti says:

    Thanks Aloke.. I was not aware of that..

    But I dont see it that way.. ‘ as past is past ‘

    I see it as a beautiful growth Osho went through from being Acharya to a graceful Zen master ..

  43. Kranti says:

    This forum looks a lot healthier with people posting from their own individuality and space and there is a sense of balance.. earlier it was always reactions , reactions to reactions and it was a bit tiring and hopeless..

  44. Kranti says:

    Like Shantam said If Neelam, Satya Vedant, Keerti share their insights in a fresh manner in this forum , it will be great.. Who knows..that January celebration may still be possible..

  45. oshobob says:

    bubbie,

    I’m sure you are right on about that being the real Osho that you saw most of the time, whether in drive-by or celebration events, or the ranch discourses, or personal darshans. Not questioning that at all.

    But on rare occasions — and it is said by numerous varied people to have happened — the double stand-in thing was used.
    Maybe when Osho wanted to have a good joke, or the security dept. got even a whiff of some danger to Osho in the wind that could be avoided.

    And, yes I was there at that time. In fact, the first person I saw on the Ranch was Osho himself, as he drove by me on the narrow dirt county road between Antelope and the sannyasin city of Rajneeshpuram in the valley in the mid-afternoon.

    One day I may even tell you about the 3 private encounters on that road I had later with the Old Boy…

    But, as you say bubbie, “Who knows?” Osho was the penultimate prankster, from his childhood on through to the later days. There is even a possibility that there are none of Osho’s ashes in that urn put under his marble bed “samadhi” at the Chuang Tzu Meditation Hall. I think Swami Rajneesh should verify that before he goes to all the legal expense of suing the Resort on this matter. Also, Swami Arun is advertising that he has an Osho samadhi at his commune in Nepal, Tabopan. Why not go there instead? You would save a lot of time, energy, and money. You could even buy a shirt or two, Rajneesh, with the freed-up cash…

  46. Kranti says:

    ” One day I may even tell you about the 3 private encounters on that road I had later with the Old Boy ”

    Include me also oshobob.. I miss Osho so much atleast i can hear those experiences..

    I like your sense of humour ..In the last post , especially the last suggestion was good one..

  47. shantam prem says:

    Anthony,

    When you create a rainbow, you involve all the colors.
    This was the beauty of Osho that His ashram contained all the colors in its different varitations. His ashram accomodated all the stages of evolution.
    It was not the class of M.A. or Ph.D , where some govt funded professor comes and delivers the lectures to people who can read, any way everything.
    Unfortuntaley, the place has lost the colors, it has some normal rituals.
    Resort what we call now is an OPD, a dispansery, Even blind can see that it is not a super speciality research institution any more.
    If few cannot see the decline, they may have the mind set of people who particiapte in the annual Military prade in North Korea.

    i

  48. Kranti says:

    Swami Rajneesh

    I was reading your reply to me in the previous thread

    There seems to be a contradiction..may be i didnt understand

    You say the following about therapies

    ” i do not endorse therapies and particularly the claims of therapists to be the elite…

    the moment you accet therapy you are clearly defining that you need to add more to yourself…that you are not enough unto yourself hence you need these therapies

    therapists insist that change is necessary
    i insist that no change is necessary just an inner dive ”

    But you finish the post by saying

    ” i am not against therapies…
    just this money exploitation and mis-information
    about the real values of these therapies…”

    Can you please tell us whether you see real value in therapies ?

  49. Kranti says:

    ” When you create a rainbow, you involve all the colors”

    Shantam .. I fully agree with you on the need for balance issue..But the problem is defining what is balance?

    I asked everyone what they want to see in Pune apart from the freedom of expression which seems to be available..No one is able to pinpoint what changes they want to see..At the most people talk about bringing back Buddha Hall

    As someone who is in the thick of things can you please make one more try.. I know you did this earlier..But in the context of this new thread can you try again? You can take time and look at what other sannaysisn want to see and post the same also..

  50. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam. you were also asking my about my psychological opinions on keerti, narendra and neelam.

    although i do not agree with their vision, they seem to me psychological healthy people… nothing to say about that.

    So far rajneesh is the only one in these threads that seems psychologically sick, specifically with megalomaniac tendencies… I mean you do not need to be an expert, just see the pictures from his webpage… the whole trip is there… or you can read the book… again, you can see it there… you know the chosen one and that kind of deficiensy trip.
    On the other side it is an understandable psychological response to all the shit he had to take from sannysins for his slaw walking trip.

    In a way it is his final revenge. He is now a master, not any master but he became his beloved Osho… moves like him, his gestures are like him… and of course, he has the money to rub it all in the faces of the people who laughed at him.
    I still do not like him and i do not try to hide it… it is my trip. I despise the lack of authenticity.

  51. shantam prem says:

    Somewhere Anthony, it is not very difficult to see the points mentioned by you in Rajneesh.

    Still…

    He has created his space in the cut throat market of inner jumbo mambo. His success is phenomenal. Many people have opened their shops after Osho’s departure, basically everybody including the ashram in Pune and Delhi, dharamshala Nepal, Italy, Denmark Sidona USA people are quite a contented lot with their KIOSKS and thankfully not so “big slogans like new man, buddhafield, Zorba the Buddha and Blah Blah”.

    Among all these, Rajneesh is touching a rare nerve in the market. A child in many seekers feel secured in his presence.

    This is my whole concern that Ahsram in Pune has lost this warmth. When father dies, brothers and sisters support each other kind of oneness.
    One can argue, this warmth has nothing to do with the search of truth.
    My God.. in that situation Osho should have chosen five six people out of millions, who are just ripe to finish the last chapter of their thesis.

    So in me, i have a soft corner for Rajneesh for the reason, that inspite of His success(Awakening is too complex a matter), He is raising his voice against
    those big and powerful who wants everybody to think in the terms,(” I am OK you are OK, Osho is OK , Don’t worry be happy )
    Humanity as it is till now, likes gurus and magicians with spacial costumes, can you for see “my Osho, our Osho” in Levis jeans and Lacoste t shirt¨!

    May be in 2110….The Osho of His time!
    (as per my highly optimistic approach)

  52. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,
    Buddha hall is just a symbolic gesture.
    i am sure, inspite of not being in the ashram for two years, atleast on this thread, may be i am one of those few who have got the grace from life to attend Osho white robe brotherhood in the Auditorium for months during many years.

    “Osho white robe brotherhood ” i am using consciously instead of saying Evening meeting.

    So.. the point one, you think the cream of the cream Osho talks about His people, will ever take the dictates from someone, who is not their master but a fellow traveler..

    When i close my eyes, i can see thousands of these people who were with Osho for years but don’t come to the ashram any more….

    The idiots think, who cares, there are more than six billion people, new customers can fill the shop…

    If you love Osho and are not senstive about the people who were part of His show, even as extra artists… I will not allow such people even to kiss my ass!

    Point two…

    Osho had all the knowledge of human psychology therefore he could create the psychology of the Buddhas,
    Was Osho so stupid that he was not aware that everyday is a celebration and still created five celebrations in different seasons… He was well aware about the warmth and festivity generated by them…

    After Him come some half baked cookies declaring everyday is a celebration so we don’t need His celebrations…..

    and irony is that all these people celebrate their birthday and any man/woman who they screw/love in the Ashram Campus.

    Want to see the photos. Please visit the profile of Bhikkhu Schober at facebook.
    He has a album of fifty photos of Dhyanesh 50th birthday celebrated in the ashram campus attended by the B team of elites.

    Basically these are everyday Photos of any birth day. But Dhyanesh is not anybody, He is the “minister of internal and external security” . A very high profile port folio for a person who is doing his job quite satisfactory with equal dose of friendliness and ruthlessness.

    I think i am not going over the board. it is a common sense that those who prescribe celibacy, at least such people should not sell condoms in their churches, temples or meditation resorts!

    So the second point… you take celebrating days away of a master of million disciples and think….everybody will say Bravo Bravo.!

    Bit by bit i will increase the counting points.
    .

  53. Alok john says:

    It would be nice if we could have a bit more from Amrito. For example his thoughts on OFI and the legal cases; also about Sw Arun of Nepal.

  54. Kranti says:

    Dhyanesh clebrating his birthday is an individual event or part of resort celebration.? But i am still surprised these guys celebrate birthdays like children..I stopped celebrating birth days from the age of 2..

  55. Heraclitus says:

    Just for the record many people were banned from the ashram when Osho was alive, and on the Ranch some sannyasins were even escorted off and told never to return. So… banning was never a question of when Osho was alive and when he was not, which many Indian sannyasins go on about.
    Being banned may be a wake up call for some, and for others an invitation to just get angry like spolit children.
    If the ashram, or any other institution, or person in relaitonship, simply says they dont want you anymore…. then move on. Lots of places to go, and lots of people in the world.
    I still think that Maitreya and Tyohar, are very good examples of this. Banned from the ashram Resort in 2000 they have gone away and created very beautiful communes which many feel have Osho at their heart.

  56. shantam prem says:

    Naturally people celebrate their birthday as an individual event with their closed friends…

    Why than they preach everyday is a celebration.

    When thousands of others want to get a kick from their master’s birthday, why to stop them.

    And you can see, in the resort they may not celebrate Osho’s celebrations. Every small or big Osho centre do celebrate, and it is all over the world.
    For the simple reason, centers cannot survive without people’s involvent. They are more or less collective efforts. People share their money for the rent etc.

    On the contray resort has become one
    man’s Taj Mahal.

    just like – ” Mel Gibson’s Church Worth $42 Million

    Mel Gibson has parked another almost $10 million in his Holy Family Catholic Church up in Malibu, California.

    According to federal tax filings just made available online at guidestar.org, Mel now has a church with tax free assets of $42 million.

    That’s a lot of worth for a congregation of less than 100 people..”

    While googling the Mil gibson^s church, i saw his photo too, the smart and radiant energy is amazing…

    And the man is not even doing Dynamic or Kundalini !

  57. beloved prem bubbie

    firstly this is not a question but your own prejudice
    with a judgment and a sarcastic remedy

    it seems you have made me your disciple
    and become my master

    self judge…self trial…self verdict…self judgment…
    and punishment declared

    sounds like you are a dictator
    or a highly opinionated egoistic therapist

    anyway i always remain open and available
    for all questions and remain grateful for this opportunity before you hang me at the gallows !!

    your question has two sides to it :
    inner immitation and outer impersonation

    regarding inner immitation :

    please read my book tears of the mystic rose
    where i have revealed a secret transmission
    received from my beloved master osho
    in a mysterious happening in the buddhahall
    infront of thousands of sannyasins
    just before osho left his body

    only a devotee can understand the mystical gifts
    of transmission of a master
    and its effects on the inner being
    and the alchemical spiritual physical transformation that takes place

    my inner being has merged and dissolved
    into the grace of my master
    and the ways of my expressions and actions
    and meditative gestures indicate
    and radiate the very truth of it
    that i carry the fragrance and love of my master

    i have been ridiculed for walking slowly like osho…
    infact that i float gracefully and glide while walking…
    for my hands being shaped like his
    and for gesturing in his manners…
    for my eyes and eyebrows
    looking looking peaked and alert like his…
    for my similar original name being rajnish…

    but inspite of hundreds of complaints
    and letters from sannyasins directly to osho
    he had it announced in the buddhall
    that i was the role model of the ashram…
    and that my name was to be changed
    from rajnish to rajneesh

    the last few sentences he announced was :
    perhaps you may come across a man like me

    so hereby i announce it for all you blind judges..
    that osho is my master and he has decided
    about my immitation or so called acting
    and has mysteriously envisioned
    my coming role perhaps as a master ??

    i have lived exactly this way for the past 28 years
    whether in the poona ashram or while travelling
    all over the world or in isolation and silence
    for 14 years in the himalayas

    i have remained the same styled persona
    in my private bedroom bathroom kitchen
    and am totally at ease with myself
    in a relaxed and settled blissful state

    i dislike using or borrowing osho’s words
    but…here goes…osho…

    Have you observed ? sometimes you come across
    a couple, a wife and husband. Who look alike.
    They talk in the same way, they walk in the same way, they smile in the same way.
    There is a deep affinity. What has happened ?
    They are not brother and sister,
    so why are they so alike ?
    they love each other and they love deepy.
    When you love someone you are vunerable.
    The other changes you, and you go on changing
    the other, by the time life comes to an end,
    if wife and husband really love each other,
    they will be almost alike.
    It has to be so. Love transforms.

    Naturally, this kind of state is infectious.
    Seeing me, being here in my presence, looking into my eyes… even watching my hands, you can feel that they are the gestures of a silent man.
    Slowly, slowly you become infected, contagious; moreover, around a silent man there is a certain energy field created….A man of silence moves with
    a certain field of energy around him, and if you are receptive, his vibe starts touching your heart.

    Have you noticed? A husband and wife, if they have really been in love, non-possessive, non-jealous –
    and if they have helped each other to remain individuals and they have deep respect for
    each other – living a long life, for fifty years together,
    you will be surprised to know…

    it is a well-known fact noticed down the ages
    that they start looking almost the same.
    Their voices, their eyes, their faces, their gestures… they become so harmonious with each other. Certainly, between a master and disciple the phenomenon is a millionfold greater…

    In this state of freedom the master and disciple can come closest, and naturally energy flows from the higher to the lower. It is just like water coming from a mountaintop towards the valley. Lao Tzu has actually called his philosophy of life “the watercourse way.” When the master and disciple are so deeply in tune, because they are not in any bondage, both are meeting out of their freedom — and an authentic master never thinks himself higher than the disciple, although the authentic disciple can conceive of the master as higher than anything — energy flows slowly to the depths of your being. Meditation becomes almost a by-product; silence happens on its own accord. Your heart itself starts dancing with the master….It is enough that you enjoy the song of the master. Your enjoyment will bring you closer. It is enough that you enjoy the dance; it will make you dance. It is enough that you love the celebration, the very idea that life is celebration.
    And then slowly, slowly there is a melting and a merging. A time comes when it is difficult to find
    who is the master and who is the disciple.

    Masters and disciples, if they have lived long enough in tune with each other, become almost alike —
    without any effort of trying to become alike, because that would be forced and that would be false and that would be hypocrisy. Just dancing together, sitting together, being silent together, a merging is bound to happen.

    regarding outer impersonation :

    if i wear a maroon lungi
    i am called an impersonater of acharya rajneesh
    if i sit on the floor and speak
    they say i immitate acharya rajneesh days
    if i sit on a chair and speak i am immitating osho days
    if i stand still and look around
    it reminds them of me immitating osho
    if i walk slowly it reminds them of osho
    if i close my eyes and move my hands
    it is immitating osho

    is the moon a safe place these days ??
    do they need a guru impersonater there ??
    is there freedom to moon walk float and glide there ??

    sorry to say…
    but i cannot help you here…on these fronts

    unfortunately for osho i have a waist length hair…
    and an acharya rajneesh impersonater
    would have to shave his head bald

    i hate dyeing beards…
    which acharya rajneesh had done black every month

    i hate hats…
    especally those stupid wollen hats which fit a queen

    i detest boxy rolls royces
    which i feel are only fit as coffins for a funeral

    i find totally ridiculous
    his obnoxious sense of gaudy flashy robes
    and would not be caught dead
    in diamond emerald and saphire rings
    nor wear flashy wrist watches if i was blind

    and thankfully
    i am not oshodhara on a drag queen parade

    you say:
    You web site “smells” like Osho,

    yes certainly my wesbite smells like osho…
    who else but obviously him !!!

    you say:
    even wearing those sunglasses like Osho did.

    sunglasses are my passion since my california convertable driving days on the beach and osho
    loves my outer relaxed zorba the buddha style

    you say:
    When did this obsession with Osho’s
    appearance start?

    my obsession with osho began
    from my previous life…and was reborn for him !!

    you say:
    Maybe you just had too many mirrors in your house and got fixated on your looks, kinda like an anorexic does when they look into the mirror and see themselves as fat all the time.

    i do not own mirrors and everyone complains
    about my unkempt dishevelled and wild look

    you say:
    You, I think kept seeing yourself as Osho!!!

    i do not see myself as osho…
    i have dissapeared and only see him

    you say:
    Will you consider psychotherapy?

    the thearpist will go completely insane like me

    you say:
    I think you need it. Ciao Bella

    I know exactly what you need my baby bella…
    get the drift ?? ciao boobie bella !!!

    now enough for today ???!!!!

  58. Anthony Thompson says:

    see… read the above thread. anyone with a bit of clarity can see what I mean by megalomaniac.
    thanks rajneesh…you prove my point…actually, you are much better than me to prove my points.
    thank you

  59. yes anthony

    even your girlfriend mentioned secretly to me…
    that perhaps i would be better than you…
    at you know what…
    and she would prove her point !!

    atleast i am glad be able to help you somewhere
    where you may appear to be lacking…

    anything for a friend or a girlfriend of a friend

  60. shantam prem says:

    please read my book tears of the mystic rose
    where i have revealed a secret transmission
    received from my beloved master osho
    in a mysterious happening in the buddhahall
    infront of thousands of sannyasins
    just before osho left his body.

    !
    !
    !
    !
    !

    only a devotee can understand the mystical gifts
    of transmission of a master
    and its effects on the inner being
    and the alchemical spiritual physical transformation that takes place
    !
    !
    !
    !
    !

    !

    so hereby i announce it for all you blind judges..
    that osho is my master and he has decided
    about my immitation or so called acting
    and has mysteriously envisioned
    my coming role perhaps as a master ??

    So hereby, Me Bhagawn Shree Shantam Prem, the better version of old Osho, declares as follows-

    ANY KIND OF POWER OF ATTORNEY ISSUED TO ANY OF MY DISCIPLE CEASE TO EXIST FROM THIS VERY MOMENT,

    IT IS A TESTING TIME FOR MY PEOPLE AS FROM NOW ONWARDS, I WILL NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF CUSTUMES.
    ONLY THE BRAVEHEARTS AMONGST MY PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO RECOGNISE ME. I WILL BE WALKING AMONG YOU AS ONE OF YOU.
    AND REMEMBER IF IN CASE I FALL SICK; JUST BRING ME TO THE HOSPITAL. FEW CASES HAVE HAPPENED INBETWEEN; I AM NOT WILLING TO HAVE PERSONAL PHYSICIAN ANY MORE.

    Disclaimer- why?
    the fact stated above is true to the best of my knowledge and wisdom!

  61. Anthony Thompson says:

    Rajneesh. am I reading what I am reading”
    you say:

    “yes anthony

    even your girlfriend mentioned secretly to me…
    that perhaps i would be better than you…
    at you know what…
    and she would prove her point !!

    atleast i am glad be able to help you somewhere
    where you may appear to be lacking…

    anything for a friend or a girlfriend of a friend”

    WHAT IS THIS? ARE WE BACK IN HIGH SCHOOL?
    its is like yea, i am fucking your girlfriend buddy, kind of sarcasm?

    Man you have brought the discussion as low as I have seen it in this forum.
    You are not megalomaniac, you are just uneducated.

  62. Anthony Thompson says:

    is this a psychotic episode?!!!

  63. shantam prem says:

    Beloved Existence,
    because of the trust in the sense of humour of my fellow human beings, i have tried to play a role.
    Otherwise i know, it is one of the ugliest business to create a network of authority over the others in thy
    name or in the name of some living guru or the dead ones.

    with love and bowing down on green marble or green grass.

    yours

    shantam

  64. Prem Abhay says:

    Yes it is easy to throw wild accusations at people. Do Rajneesh’s critics now have the courage to make an intelligent response?

    Kranti says that a battle between head and heart is “the core conflict here”. At a superificial level – one that Anthony knows well – this is the conflict. However I say that it is only apparent, and the real conflict is much different. It is not between head and heart, it is between right and wrong, truth and falsity, law and criminality. In Amrito’s important posts about Osho as an image and the issue of creation of sacred space, it appears that Amrito is lying.

    Kranti give a few examples of your idea of devotion, say they seem to be at least not objected too, and conclude What more does one want as a devotee? Kranti this seems like a shallow understanding of devotion. You acknowledge this is an area that is foreign to you. It is also not my personal path. You may not like my suggestion, but it seems to me that Swami Rajneesh might know a little about the subject.

    Kranti your next paragraph is giving your slant on what Osho wanted, and is also paraphrasing Amrito:

    The simple plain fact is Osho never hanged onto the past… Once the new auditorium was ready the old was taken out…Tomorrow…somone may even ask the Mumbai Woodlands need to be brought and converted into a memorial.. what will we do then? Where do we stop?

    Kranti it is not about resurrection of the past it is about preservation of the Osho’s legacy (his ‘ashes’). Unlike what Prem Bubbie would have liked, Osho did not order that the Samadhi or Buddha Hall be demolished after he left the body. He also did not ask that his books be compiled and edited to become popular. The same goes for his meditations.

    Noone can work out from what Osho did in the past how to do the same in the future. He created a Samadhi (call it what you like) yet he previously declined to create a sacred space at Woodlands. From this you cannot infer anything about what to do with Buddha Hall for example, yet this is what the Inner-Circle has done. The tent was worn out. In time the steel structure would have dissolved into rust. The marble however would have lasted perhaps a millennium. It is not about trying to stand on his shoulders and continue his vision. It is about protecting the vision that he created. The vision is (was) alive. It is about preserving this.

    Kranti you say…. Again when the resort is said to be functioning as articulated by Osho in public..what is the issue ? Why should we refute it?

    I am aware that the resort is not functioning as it is said to be. This is why I refute it!

    Kranti then brings in Amitabh and presents what seems to be a meaningful insight. I disagree. This is the trip Jayesh and Amrito are on: insight into Osho’s vision. Osho did not leave very much – just few buildings, few paintings, and endless words. What to do about this is not very complex. Surely there would have been devotees with enough money to preserve the Samadhi and Buddha Hall for centuries, even if noone came to visit and the place became a jungle. To me that would be most beautiful and truly a reflexion of how he will only be understand many centuries from now. Perhaps then some people will take away the overgrowth and clean of the dirt of his legacy.

    Kranti askes…. Do we still have need for symbols and physical structures etc as a way of relating with the master?

    Here Kranti you are doing a Jayesh/Amrito trip of seeing Osho’s vision better than he did. This is an ego trip and this is why all the interference is Osho’s ‘ashes’.

    Kranti says…. It seems to be a lost cause..the very effort of trying to preserve a Masters like Osho’s work in pure form is frought with contradictions and failure is certain..

    This is the joke. There is no effort required. The effort and problems and confrontation comes from trying to interpret and therefore change the purity.

    Kranti talks about great divides: between materialism and spiritualism; between bhakti and wisdom.

    Kranti no merging of ideals or religious doctrines need be done. The Samadhi for example should just be preserved and available to all. If Anthony wants to go and meditate that is perfectly good. It Rajneesh wants to go and kiss the marble that is also perfectly good. You are creating fictious problems that therefore require great insight to solve. Again, this is what the Jayesh/Amrito combo are doing. It is a façade; there is no truth behind it. It is the ego pretending to be the wise master.

    Krant asks:

    One question to you guys.?
    Did Osho allow people to fall at his feet & touch ?..
    Not later days but what about early days ?

    Mukta told me a beautiful story. In was about the old days when he used to give camps and was dressed all in white. She said that she did the meditations with such wild abandon, but at the end of each meditation she opened her eyes to always find herself at his feet.

    Perhaps Swami Rajneesh is a devotee that is becoming a Master in the lineage. To me, Mukta is the most treasured devotee of Osho.

    Kranti you are wowed by Anthony’s and Anands comments. Anthony says that the Leadership has stepped aside from the receipt of spiritual acclaim and selflessly instead carried out Osho’s wishes. They may have received attention because they were close to Osho. However if all they had to do was function as a managerial body for his affairs rather than inferring that that meant to carry out Osho’s wishes, who would they be. They would have become just ordinary. They did this so they could continue to receive the attention and continue to claim spiritual superiority. It is opposite to what our resident psycho man thinks.

    Anand sees what looks like a paradise. Here is the essence of the situation. Devotional and non-wealthy people are pissed because they have been booted out. Wealthy non-devotional people think that Jayesh and Amrito are great. The resort looks like an oasis. If it were the case at least the latter group are genuinely having their needs met. However firstly it is not true. Secondly the former group has as much right to be a part of Osho’s legacy as any other group. Anand your comment is selfish and delusional.

    Wow!!

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay
    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  65. Anand says:

    Abhay, you are obviously very angry and that all the time! Your issue about the drinking water quality looked on the surface (with the information available)
    interesting (for while). But since then you have dragged on and on with your personal vendetta against the people who banned you. And you seem to know it all.
    My suggestion as always: bring your case to legal court. All banned people unite, raise some money and go the legal way. The rest is just wasting everybody’s time. You seem also angry, that some people have a great time
    in the resort and appreciate the work being done worldwide by the powers in charge.
    I think the resort being run by Neelam, Kirti, Shantam Prem and Abhay would be creepy…..

  66. Prem Abhay says:

    Anand there have just been major floods in neighbouring states. Has it rained in Pune. Lets have the water contamination reports posted on Sannyasnews. Can you ask Amrito for me please, since you love him so much.

    Anand I have no interest whatsoever in running the resort. You have a clear misunderstanding on that one; same goes for your perception of my anger.

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  67. prem bubbie says:

    Mr. Rajneesh, Your buttons have been pushed and you were very clear with your gibberish response. I submit to all that Mr. Rajneesh is looking to dethrone the current masters of the “resort” and to enthrone himself. Clearly, after all his mumbo jumbo and rants, he WANTS that position. A smooth operator, smoother still than Jayesh and company. As for myself, I really couldn’t care one way or another who runs the “resort” or what happens to it. You’re all nuts!!!!!

  68. “relax and take notes, while I take totes of the marijuana smokes–gun smoke gun smoke”

    -Biggie Smalls, 1995 (famous american rapper)

    Wow its all comming together. All the players in one cage, dancing on one stage… The fireworks on one lake!

    What a show! What a show!!

    :::applause::::

    -Amrito

  69. Anand says:

    The ‘samadhi’ is for meditation and available every day. The ‘buddha hall’ is for Osho meditations and the Evening Gathering. It a beautiful air conditioned hall available and open 365 days per year since its inauguration. The former buddha hall is an open area, where all kind of activities are happening daily for everyone to enjoy and participate.
    Drop the past, be in the NOW! Tell your mind to let go of the difference between the mundane and the sacred. Osho is within us all and accessible in the silence of our daily meditations.
    Who cares about the flaws of Amrito and Jayesh. Up to now the doors to the world of Osho have been wide open for those who care.
    Funny, how people pop up now with the pre-fix of Osho in their names.
    We are all one in emptyness.
    We will all find flaws in Amrito and Jayesh and we did with Sheela and Laxmi by the way too and with wshoever is ‘in power’, if we play the political game.
    Why not just go in and drop it all and try to love Amrito. Remember he was once a very sweet man.

  70. Rob says:

    2012…. alien contact.. things will be clearer….Osho was alien!

  71. KAT says:

    The master is the last barrier on the path. The love for the master is difficult to drop. One can drop everything — one can renounce the whole world, one can renounce himself — but unless the last thing also is dropped, that small clinging with the master remains the base for your ego. (OSHO)
    thanks Amrito I get it now and all the Best for your upcoming Birthday ( still got born on the same day ) . Love Katha

  72. prem bubbie

    atleast i have the courage and guts to respond openly to anyones unconsidered judgement questions…
    have you heard from your newly declared
    masters of the resort as you say…amrito or jayesh ??

    even in my worst nightmare i would not wish to be
    part of any osho’s mundane matters managment

    now you say :
    I really couldn’t care one way or another who runs the “resort” or what happens to it. You’re all nuts!!!!!

    you sounded like a great concerned questioner
    asking others pointed questions and demading sincierity and to appear caring enough to be grateful
    for a clear honest response….

    now suddenly…you do not care what happens….
    it seems your buttons are not only pushed but you seems to be exasperated and unable to breathe
    such a petty reaction and imature response to my crystal clear reply to you…

    now wait and see if you receive any reply to your targeted questions to amirito…
    if he has any balls as you say…

    comprende…ciao booobie bella…rajneesh

  73. i have to state openly that prem abhay sounds
    and feels authentic and deeply concerned
    about matters which are aired here

    he is passionate and insightful and
    although his answers are sometimes long
    his insights are deep and meaningful
    he shares a sharp understanding and has crystalised views which come from deep contemplation

    osho always says that the moment your meditation becomes crystalised your words become razor sharp

    bravo abhay…you are a rare gem
    and a passionate debator sharpening your sword

    rajneesh

  74. Dear Abhay

    I had stated a very simple fact and I think you will understand it.

    Whosoever wants to implement the Osho wishes, should preferably be a devotee. Otherwise the person is going to bring his mind in between and spoil every thing.

    The way it happened in the case of Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda.

    When Sri Ramakrishna left the body then He used Swami Vivekananda for spreading his message, which was path of devotion. Swami Vivekananda being a meditator was not interested in path of devotion and He totally manipulated the work of Sri Ramakrishna.

    This happened despite the fact that Sri Ramakrishna was totally in touch with Swami Vivekananda even after leaving his body.

    So, what actually needed to implement Osho wishes is a devotee, heart oriented person. The current Sannyasins in Puna are more Zen type. They are not implementing Osho wishes but their own visions or unconsciousness. I would like to call their vision as action originating from wounded ego.

    Their is a second option too, that is aware intelligent Enlightened Sannyasin of Osho taking the charge. This option will take Osho work much further but his original vision might get diluted over a period of time or readjusted as per the current need.

    The key thing in 2nd option is that Osho was a spiritual giant and very few people can reach such heights and understand the deep insights and reason behind Osho approach. So it is risky in one way.

    I am not very clear after this, so I will better shut up.

    Please contemplate and I think you will also come to same conclusion that a devotee is needed to implement the Osho wishes as it is said by Osho. 2ndly, a devotee can be used easily by Osho to spread his work.

    But if someone follows the path of Zen or Meditation then it becomes very very difficult to follow someone else wishes.
    It will create more conflict in the person. Because He has to implement the wishes of Osho but his mind says something else. So a heart which is not divided but lost in Osho can only follow Osho wishes totally.

    love
    amitabh

  75. Prem Abhay says:

    Yes Swami Rajneesh it is funny that such sincerely concerned sannyasins attack with vulgarities. Though it is not worthy of response the responses come. Yet still there is no change from crudeness, and strangely a lack of concern arises. Fools are playing futile games. At least this much is now clear. Also Amrito’s response to Shantam has been comprehensively critiqued, yet no-one has provided anything other than a mediocre response. I am sure that would be different if Amrito or Jayesh would lower themselves and reply.

    Anand it is fine if Amrito and Jayesh are playing a political game. However as I am sure you are aware Sheela and her gang went far beyond that. You almost seem to say that even if you knew what Sheela and her gang were up to you would just go along with it and shower them with love. I hope that is not your logic here. The direction of my argument and inquiry has always been to do with law not politics. In the West I could have taken what I know to the relevant authorities and the place would have been shut down many years ago. This is not the West and corruption keeps the criminals in power. Amrito and Jayesh are deeply hurting so many people mentally and physically. The truth will one day rise to the surface. I have a feeling the days is coming soon.

    It was mentioned earlier how not only Amrito, Jayesh and the Gang are spreading the Osho gospel, but look at all the Osho therapists and groups. All this positive sharing of Osho and people like me rant out negativity and rage on SannyasNews comments. The therapists that are part of the establishment are likely avoiding the reality of the situation because all they are interested in is sitting in front of people and playing the guru trip. Ironically we have Anthony the psychotherapist condemning Swami Rajneesh for being a megalomaniac when the truth of the matter is there are scores of megalomaniac group leaders. A group leader with this kind of mentality cannot help people whether they are using Osho therapies or not.

    Anand, when you ask for the water contamination reports from Amrito there is something important to know. It takes around half a day or so for the surface water to seep into the wells and stir everything up into a nasty soup of microbes. Hence the water tests need to be from approximately 24 hours after the first downpour, and continue for at least a week. Cheers and thanks heaps.

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  76. Prem Abhay says:

    Swami Amitabh now at least I get what you are on about. It seems to me that there is such a mix of different issues in what you are saying. One issue is the difference between someone being enlightened and not so. Another issue about being a particular type of person: zen or devotional or whatever. A third issue I see is to do with how a Master may have his wishes carried out. The final issue is how succession can take place. Something you also allude to is how big a buddha is – kind of like the clash of the titans.

    So strange it is that Sri Ramakrishna the giant devotee hands over too Swami Vivikenanda the giant intellect. My view is that each Master needs to work with what is around them. I am sure that if Ramakrishna had a giant enlightened devotee than this devotee would have succeeded him and not Vivikenanda. It seems to me likely that Ramakrishna had enlightened devotees that just did not have something that Vivikenanda possessed. The metaphor may simply be that it is not the type of torch that shines, but rather how bright it be. After all an enlightened devotee knows that the path of devotion arrives to truth, yet knows also that there are other ways.

    Coming back to Osho, the way I see it it is not for you or I to question what a Master has done in relation to this but rather to be clear about what it is the Master has done. Osho did not leave anyone to succeed him. If someone like Swami Rajneesh becomes a great Master in the line of Osho than Swami Rajneesh has done this out of his own greatness.

    It is stark the contrast between throngs of people coming and touching Osho’s feet on his birthday in 1975 and throngs of intellectual meditators visiting the current resort. In my opinion the answer to this contradiction is certainly not that he was learning along the way. The answer is that he was adapting with the people that were attracted to him.

    With Osho not leaving any successor he was making a fundamental statement. He was saying that the current Zen style is no better nor worse than the old devotional style. Also it is not the the Inner-Circle was full of Zen meditators and devoid of devotees – just look at Neelam and Keerti.

    I think there is a misunderstanding between carrying out Osho’s wishes and carrying out Osho’s vision. To carry out a Master’s wishes is a simple affair of practical arrangements and is what the Inner-Circle was mandated to do. To carry out his vision is something that only a person nominated by Osho or a person who has grown out of their own inner explosion can do. Osho left noone to carry out his vision. Swami Rajneesh and others are carrying the torch so to speak, but only out of their own fire and light. Amrito and Jayesh are carrying the torch so to speak, but Osho never gave the torch to them. I am sure they started out sincere, but one cannot run ahead into the unknown if the light be dim. Hence they have run into darkness and stumbled and brought the whole Osho movement with them.

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  77. Kranti says:

    I was about to say that this below point of Sw Rajnessh ‘ s is beautiful

    ” i find totally ridiculous..his obnoxious sense of gaudy flashy robes.. and would not be caught dead
    in diamond emerald and saphire rings”

    Then to my horror i came across that Anthony girlfriend comments..

    How on earth is that possible for an awakened human being?

    And to see that Abhay adding ” Yes Swami Rajneesh it is funny that such sincerely concerned sannyasins attack with vulgarities. Though it is not worthy of response the responses come ”

    Dear O Dear.. the forum has come its lowest point possible.. All these months we debated , argued and pulled each others leg..But nothing like this..

  78. Kranti says:

    ” is this a psychotic episode?!!!

    Seems so.. Anthony ..You managed to bring out the dark side of Sw Rajneesh just by posting messages

    I am really sorry Sw Rajneesh..I was slowly recognising and accepting few of the points you mention..I even asked you how do you see the value of therapies.. A detailed answer to that would have helped us to see the view of an awakened one..

    But what we saw was different..I still hope that post was sent by someone else ..not you..

  79. Kranti says:

    ” Also Amrito’s response to Shantam has been comprehensively critiqued, yet no-one has provided anything other than a mediocre response ”

    Abhay..wait…dont pat yourself and start celebrating

    Meanigful responses came and they will keep coming.

  80. Kranti says:

    ” osho always says that the moment your meditation becomes crystalised your words become razor sharp”

    Totally agree.. We got the taste of that razor sharpness in this forum itself.

  81. Kranti says:

    ” Mukta is the most treasured devotee of Osho ”

    This is the problem with so called devotess… the fight is always about who is the most treasured devotee.. and everything goes downhill from there onwards..

    Infact major part of the reactions against PUNE is because of this inferiority complex.. ( Except ofcourse few genuine request for more heart oriented approach..)

  82. shantam prem says:

    thanks Amrito I get it now and all the Best for your upcoming Birthday ( still got born on the same day ) . Love Katha..

    Katha
    it means you both have Libra sun sign. May i ask what is the date.
    In the west, it is very common to create the horoscope of public figures. Just give the reference of any celebrity, and Google search can find astro bio data. and it is not thought to be the infringement of personal freedom.
    One day i wish to write an article about the domination of air sign people in the ashram, and one can see how nicely they fit together.

    Air is needed to spread the fire(vision) Osho’s Sagittarius sun.
    but too much air(intellect) can blow the fire off!

    so seems to be the case.

  83. shantam prem says:

    ” Mukta is the most treasured devotee of Osho ”

    As far as my observation is also concerned….
    Mukta will deserve the titel of most treasured devotee of Osho..

    It is her humilty and merger with Osho and His work, that most of the people are not even aware who this old Greek lady is.
    she is the longest living western disciple of Osho.
    It was with her money, Lao Tzu house was purchased back in early seventies.

    She is one of those 20 inner circle people, who could not be booted out. Not because she can play better politics but few other reasons.

    May life give us the dust of such people’s shoes.

  84. shantam prem says:

    Now when we look objectively, there are two main kind of parasites eating the rose garden of Osho.

    One attacks from the nicely developed intellectual faculty but lower Emotional Intelligence.
    Their intention is pure yet dry. Under their leadership, osho’s vision will grow like a Bonsai…nice little plant in a beautiful pot.
    Jayesh/Amrtio/Anando are the arche type of such people.

    Second parasites are quite deadly too. They attack the emotional aspect. They built the stories of myth and energy transmission.
    They create cozy atmosphere to plant their own tree and create dependency on the way.
    Samdarshi/ Toyhar/ Dolano/Rajneesh(Sorry Bro) are the arche type of such people.

    Solution—-

    Make the institution of Ashram strong as it was during His life time. Don’t interfere into His work. Fly the Air bus like a pilot but don’t try to inter fer in the wiring…

    and in the process don’t forget, pilots are pilots. the airline belongs to “Osho sannyas international.”

  85. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti says…Meanigful responses came and they will keep coming.

    Kranti about the girlfriend comment, from my take Anthony would not get out of the gutter so Rajneesh simply responded in kind. Kranti this is how bias comes into it. You have been biased through the last two posts yet deny it. Again you take Rajneesh’s comment out of the context that it was a response to a repetitive, arrogant, and filthy attack.

    I accused you of bias and you say you merely were requesting that we the opposing faction respond to Amrito. You forgot to add that you also said that Amrito’s response was from the heart and really what respond could be made to such a caring mind. This is your trick Kranti. In simple terms it is called lying by omission.

    Anyhow you seem to be of the view that you have made an intelligent response to my critique of Amrito with more to come. This is my critique of your view.

    Kranti, on the first point you argue that Amrito did not dismiss the question. You then go on to say that your view of Shantams real question is the core conflict between head and heart. However if this was the core question then why did not Amrito answer it? As you say yourself Amrito says coming and going is part of life. You repeat this obvious fact yet you nor Amrito have addressed what you yourself considered to be the essential question. You say Amrito is not dismissing the question yet he certainly did not answer it. Tell me how that is not mediocre on your part (and Amrito’s)?

    Your next sentence is a quote of one of Amrito’s responses. You then go into your own rhetoric about devotion. Explaining your view of devotion – which you yourself then admit is limited – is not relevant.

    The next thing you do is use Osho as a back up and paraphrase Amrito. I have already pointed this out previously. You say….”The simple plain fact is Osho never hanged onto the past”. Do you not see what you are doing here. This is one of my essential criticisms of Amrito: that he is giving his personal take on Osho. You are doing it here as well, and then even worse you paraphrase Amrito.

    In your next post you say…Again when the resort is said to be functioning as articulated by Osho in public..what is the issue ? Why should we refute it?

    My response to this was…I am aware that the resort is not functioning as it is said to be. This is why I refute it!

    Kranti to you see the absurdity of what you are saying? If we follow your logic as long as someone says something is the case “why should we refute it?”. This is also why we are here engaged in dialogue: because people say things and they are queried because a lot of the time people speak crap (Amrito included).

    You then introduce Amitabh and discuss his issues. That is perfectly fine and I have also responded to this. However it is not a response to my critique of Amrito.

    How I am supposed to consider that to be a thorough and intelligent response to my critique. I know you have said that more is coming. I can’t wait!

    OK Kranti I want you to get this one very clearly. It is really, really simple and demonstrates a pattern of you twisting the truth (LYING) by omission.

    You said that someone said….Mukta is the most treasured devotee of Osho.

    What I actually said was said….To me, Mukta is the most treasured devotee of Osho.

    You critique the view of devotion, and you also in doing so criticise me, but you cut out the part where I said “To me”. It was my personal view about Mukta because I love her dearly. You cut out “To me” so you can try and make a point about the problems with devotion. This is called lying by omission and you are here being deceptive and manipulative – or at least trying to be.

    Again, I can’t wait!

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  86. Dear Osho Abhay

    You are too good
    and u think really deep.
    keep going
    love
    amitabh

  87. I would like to share Osho words which seems to be relevant in this conversation.

    Devotion has its own strange ways. It is not something rational, logical, something that can be explained to you. But it is something, if you go on growing from a student into a disciple, from a disciple into a devotee, and you come so close to the master that there is no distinction at all…

    A third story which will help you: Mahakashyap, one of Buddha’s great devotees, had come to such a point that if Buddha had a headache Mahakashyap would have a headache. And before Buddha had said anything
    about his headache, Mahakashyap would call the physician: “Buddha must have a headache, because I have a headache.”

    And the physician said, “But if you have a headache that does not mean that Buddha should have a headache.”

    He said, “It does mean… “and he was always found to be right.

    Just one day before the day he died, Buddha was saying to somebody, “Soon I will be coming to your city, Vaishali” — one of the greatest cities of those days, and one of the cities where most of Buddha’s lovers lived. In forty years’ time Buddha passed almost twenty times through Vaishali.

    To Varanasi he went only once. Asked why, he said, “Varanasi is so full of knowledge — nobody is interested in being. It is a city of scholars and pundits; it is a sheer wastage of time.”
    He never went back there again.

    And to this man he was saying, “In a few days’ time I will be coming to Vaishali.”

    Mahakashyap was sitting there. He said, “Don’t believe him. He is not going to live long. As far as I am concerned, he is going to die within two days.”

    Such empathy… it is not sympathy. In empathy you
    start feeling the same, exactly the same — as if one soul in two bodies.

    Buddha looked at Mahakashyap and said, “This is not right. You should not say such things.”

    Mahakashyap said, “But why unnecessarily give a promise that you are not going to fulfill?”

    The man from Vaishali said, “Strange… Buddha is saying, `I am coming’ and you are saying that he will not come. And you start arguing with each other!”

    Mahakashyap said, “He is going to die the day after tomorrow, and if you don’t believe me, remain here. It is just a question of a few hours.” And Buddha died at exactly the time Mahakashyap had said.

    The man from Vaishali had asked Buddha, “Why were you telling Mahakashyap not to say it?”

    Buddha said, “I know I am going to die, he also knows — but he is so one with me, it makes no difference to him whether I am alive or dead. But to you, my death will make your journey home unnecessarily miserable. Just out of compassion I was preventing him, but he won’t listen to anybody. And because he is right, I cannot insist too much.”

    Buddha died in the morning — and within just fifteen minutes, Mahakashyap died. That is devotion. Those hearts were beating together so much that it was impossible to carry on with only one heart; and the soul was gone, only the body had remained.

    There were great disciples of Buddha, but nobody has the distinction of being a devotee except Mahakashyap. His death proved it — while everybody was just preparing the funeral pyre, people were weeping and crying, Mahakashyap closed his eyes and was gone.

    Devotion is the ultimate state of disciplehood — when you become one with the master, when the dewdrop slips into the ocean and becomes one with it.

    Source – Osho Upanishad

  88. I am sorry
    I forgot to put quotations marks in the above comment.
    Osho words start with this line

    Osho – “”Devotion has its own strange ways.

  89. Prem Abhay says:

    Shantam this is also where I arrived. The Osho jumbo jet (one heart engine, the other head engine) was made all by Osho. He gave 21 seats in cock-pit. If someone wants to takeover all controls and kick out other pilots, then they should be told to go and fly their own Cessna. Of course there is nothing wrong with a pilot having two jobs – after all we live in a busy world. What really happened however was a couple of pilots kicked all others out. Few had rough landing and few had parachutes. Most out of work pilots found new job by hiring or building another plane. Trouble is they can’t get back in Osho jumbo, and anyhow who would want to when it is about to crash.

    Yahoo
    Osho Abhay

  90. Kranti says:

    Abhay ..You are just playing with words.. You got diverted a long way from a simple guy who honestly raised the issue of water contamination to someone who is desparate to make use of these emotional outburts here..unfortunately your friend Swami Rajneesh let you down..

    ( Abhay ) ” Kranti says…Meanigful responses came and they will keep coming…
    Kranti about the girlfriend comment, from my take Anthony would not get out of the gutter so Rajneesh simply responded in kind. Kranti this is how bias comes into it. You have been biased through the last two posts yet deny it. Again you take Rajneesh’s comment out of the context that it was a response to a repetitive, arrogant, and filthy attack. ”

    ( Kranti ) Simple.. Anthony does not go out and preach what is life and compassion to others.. He is a honest guy and he sticks to basic facts . He also admits he is not even a sannaysin.. Although i do feel he could have avoided calling rajneesh few things ..But unfortunately he was proven right by Sw Rajnessh losing control.

    Please dont say it is a ‘ Reponse ‘ … Osho has taught us the difference between ‘ Reponse and Reaction ‘ We all can understand the difference between the two

    On any case i dont expect someone calling himself as a successor to Osho to be that weak and saying he will screw someone else’s girlfriend …Too weak.

    ( Abhay ) ” I accused you of bias and you say you merely were requesting that we the opposing faction respond to Amrito. You forgot to add that you also said that Amrito’s response was from the heart and really what respond could be made to such a caring mind. This is your trick Kranti. In simple terms it is called lying by omission.

    ( Kranti ) I have always accepted I have some bias towards Pune management and unless i see facts i dont accept complaints. That has got nothing to do with me requesting people to be receptive to Amrito..

    We all have our biases.. So i did not omit anything intentionally.. I also specifically told you so many posts had been posted overnight and it will be difficult to respond to all points in the same flow..

    ( Abhay ) Kranti, on the first point you argue that Amrito did not dismiss the question. You then go on to say that your view of Shantams real question is the core conflict between head and heart. However if this was the core question then why did not Amrito answer it?

    ( Kranti ) Yes..I still say Amrito did not dismiss the question. Look at the entire response.. he has clearly indicated although in his own words the issue is head Vs Heart.. he said sanyasins have to walk their walk and it is not Osho’s way to hang on to the past etc..

    The problem is you look for your kind of words and at places where you expect ..Read the entire responce from Amrito… The core of that response is clear

    ( Abhay ) ” Your next sentence is a quote of one of Amrito’s responses. You then go into your own rhetoric about devotion. Explaining your view of devotion – which you yourself then admit is limited – is not relevant.

    ( Kranti ) I didnt quote Amrito.. Amrito said something as Osho’s way.. he also gave a big Osho quote which said the same thing .. ( Walk the Walk.) .Although he would not have reproduced in the exact Osho words..

    Yes… Wherever i felt the need to go into more details i did.. I also described what i saw in PUNE
    and honestly asked everyone what else they want to see.. Is that wrong ?

    ( Abhay ) The next thing you do is use Osho as a back up and paraphrase Amrito. I have already pointed this out previously. You say….”The simple plain fact is Osho never hanged onto the past”. Do you not see what you are doing here. This is one of my essential criticisms of Amrito: that he is giving his personal take on Osho. You are doing it here as well, and then even worse you paraphrase Amrito.

    ( Kranti ) Do you mean to say Osho hanged onto the past .. Is it not a plain fact that Osho never hanged on to past ..Thats is what Osho is

    ( Abhay ) In your next post you say…Again when the resort is said to be functioning as articulated by Osho in public..what is the issue ? Why should we refute it?

    My response to this was…I am aware that the resort is not functioning as it is said to be. This is why I refute it!

    Kranti to you see the absurdity of what you are saying? If we follow your logic as long as someone says something is the case “why should we refute it?”. This is also why we are here engaged in dialogue: because people say things and they are queried because a lot of the time people speak crap (Amrito included).

    ( Kranti ) When Amrito says things are done exactly as per what Osho said publishly I trusted him .. My understanding is everyone knows about what osho said in public and Amrito can not say things which are not true .. although interpretation issues can come up.. and thats why we are here. I never said anyone is lying here.. I either express my general view or wherever required ask for facts.. I never tell anyone that they are lying

    ( Abhay ) You then introduce Amitabh and discuss his issues. That is perfectly fine and I have also responded to this. However it is not a response to my critique of Amrito.

    ( Kranti ) I did not mean that as response to you.. Did I ?

    ( Abhay ) How I am supposed to consider that to be a thorough and intelligent response to my critique. I know you have said that more is coming. I can’t wait!

    ( Kranti ) It is up to you.. I can not force you to wait.. the reason i said wait is because you were making quick judgenments that no one is reponding to you

    ( Abhay ) OK Kranti I want you to get this one very clearly. It is really, really simple and demonstrates a pattern of you twisting the truth (LYING) by omission.

    ( Kranti ) Again i didnt omit anything intentionally.. We post so much..It is not possible to keep covering all the points we say.. just look at the lenghth of this post alone.. i also have my way of posting short messages ..not very lengthy ones like you do.. So i have to crunch certain things… thats doesnt mean i am not saying truth

    ( Abhay ) You said that someone said….Mukta is the most treasured devotee of Osho.

    ( Kranti ) Did I say ‘ someone said ‘ ..Please read again

    ( Abhay ) What I actually said was said….To me, Mukta is the most treasured devotee of Osho.

    ( Kranti ) It is alright.. did I say Mukta should not be your treasured devotee..

    I have general view about this treasured devotees concept.. This is the foundation for all arguements about who was the most treasured and who was not.. Infact this is one of the core issues we have ..

    Shantam always talks about the importance people attach to the roles played by diciples to Osho .. On an individual preference basis it is not an issue..when that is highlighted by people to show how important they were then it becomes an issue..I didnt have anything personal about you here..Please read again.. may be i should have said that without refering to you..

    ( Abhay ) Again, I can’t wait!

    ( Kranti ) what is the need of telling ‘ again you cant wait ‘.. If you cant wait then you cant wait..where is the question of again ?

  91. Anthony Thompson says:

    you know what guys. I feel hurt.

    In over the year we have been discussing arguing, pulling each other legs in this forum, even with ex- sannyasins who dislike Osho like Andreas Roth, cinics like frank and many other beautiful people in their own way who have passed and discussed in this place, there has been a constant: respect.

    No matter how angry we have got and no matter what we have called each other ( psychotic, stuck in the past, lack of courage, gullible, hindi bindi, western obsessed, etc), we have always remained somehow respectful of each other… even in our total disagreement. there has been a sense of community and love pervading all our fights.

    This has been broken by the rude and totally out of place comment from Sw. rajneesh about my girlfriend.(And he has he guts to call himself awake.)

    Even when we got really angry we never went that low as insulting someone in that way.
    There was a guy who insulted chetna also in a rude and obscene way, making sexual references to her, and we all reacted to that.

    I am hurt, and disappointed.
    anthony

  92. KAT says:

    ops …you see LIBRA !!! Always the Beloved first . Well, just google me best at http;//facebook.com /Katha

  93. Kranti says:

    Anthony… I am with you.. I understand how you feel

    I communicated this in number of posts above..

    Think of Osho and take it in your stride for him ..

    Relax ..

  94. frank says:

    whoah!
    there goes brian rajneesh,the deluded doppelganger,sinking his teeth deep into psycho tony`s gonads!
    these guys are going to fight till the ego-death…..

  95. frank says:

    its good,tho`
    i`m learning a lot about enlightenment.

  96. Anthony Thompson says:

    Frak, why were you so long away from this forum?
    it is not the same without you..
    I love your humor. ” brian rajneesh” from Monty python`s “life of brian” superb… I just like British humor.

  97. some more juice just for anthony

    the prudish indian mythological researcher
    with no with or sense of humour

    who is feeling hurt and dissapointed
    and wants respect from me

    so here is my due respect…respectfully sir….

    Little Ernie is sitting at the back of the class,
    a can of beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other when Miss Goodbody says “ okay children, today we are going to play something, and you try to tell me what i am thinking about.

    Okay here we go !
    The first thing is a fruit. It is round and red “
    Little billy raises his hand and says “ an apple “
    Miss Goodbody says “ no, it is a tomato,
    but i’m glad to see you’re thinking.

    The next one is round and it’s a green vegetable”,
    Little Mary says “ its’s a lettuce “
    No says Miss Goodbody, it’s a pea,
    but i’m glad to see you’re thinking

    Just then Ernie raises his hand
    and says “ hey teach ! mind if i ask you one ?
    Go right ahead says Miss Goodbody
    Okay says Ernie, I’ve got something in my pocket
    and it’s long and hard and it’s got a pink tip

    Ernie! Shouts Miss Goodbody, that’s disgusting

    It’s a pencil says, Ernie,
    but i’m glad to see you’re thinking !!

    the rude rebellious rajneesh

  98. satya says:

    that is a wonderfully funny joke,rajneesh.
    original,too.it is absurd that they say you are an impersonator
    everyday you are amazing us with your lightness.
    you are enlightened,rude and funny also.
    i am immensely happy that you are sharing yourself so freely with us,swami.
    it is an honour to be on the same planet as you.
    please go on hammering those who are just stuck in their head like this foolish and now,since you hammered him with your zen stick almost unconscious therapist thompson.
    and your `tears of the mystic rose` is simply the best book i have ever read.so sincere,like a sharp arrow hitting straight to the point.an outpouring of original vision.

    jai rajneesh swami

  99. Kranti says:

    Disclaimer : The following joke is not connected to anyone or anything we discussed here whatsover..Any such idea is entirely imagination….

    ” The Polack patient lying on the operating table whispers to the surgical-masked doctor, “You can take your mask off now, doctor, I have recognized you! “

  100. prem bubbie says:

    Halloween is coming soon, so if anyone is going to a costume party get dressed as Osho(Mr. Rajneesh can help there). Imagine hundreds of Osho look-a-likes, I bet even Mr. Rajneesh couldn’t be distinguished from the rest. That will get him pretty pissed-off I bet. What a big Ego!!!! You’re small potatoes pal!!! Satya: What drugs have you been taking?

  101. Kranti says:

    Devotiono acid diethylamide?

  102. now one special halloween joke
    just for prem bubbie

    she goes undressed
    hidden under two huge orange pumkins
    and everyone knows it prem boobies

    imagine hundreds of pumpkin boobies look-a-likes
    a real scary halloween !!

    trick or treat anyone ??

  103. Shahriar says:

    “a joke is a joke shariar. shared with funny friends here.”

    I do not understand what you mean by this Anthony.

    I also detect a tone of disrespect from your posts, as if you look down on me. If you could clarify this I would appreciate it, perhaps it is just a misunderstanding.

  104. Chinmaya says:

    You all seem to be actors of a drama, playing to the role of their characters, and ultimately, the disciplie of the One invisible Director and that is our Master – Osho……..and you all shall meet each other with love and hug during January 2010 with full zeal and zenith with enthusiasm……..Yahooooooo…..OSHO…..OSHO…

  105. A joke which hurts another person is not good humor.

  106. oshobob says:

    Chinmaya, that’s right. I think you hit the nail on the head there with the perception of the Invisible Master Osho producing and directing this great drama.

    And another person who should not be forgotten in this online menagerie of impersonators, doppelgangers, double and triple identities, and Halloween masquerades is none other than…

    Swami Paritosh, the creator of Sannyasnews.

  107. satya says:

    what drug am i on? asks bubbie.
    i am not on anything but love and consciousness.
    everyday i gaze at a picture of rajneesh in his lunghi,with his glistening bare chest.
    i strip to the waist,put on my lunghi.
    i feel a longing in several chakras,including one or two rude ones,then i meditate vigourously.
    ahh,the bliss.
    you in your low state of consciousness could hardly be expected to understand and people like thompson,in his unconsciousness will laugh,and call me irrational or insane,but i care not at all as i merge totally with rajneesh and the cosmos on the deepest level possible
    thankyou swami

    jai jai

  108. beloved amitabh

    a joke can never hurt a person

    whereas egoistic judgement
    and continious public attacks
    on a persons sincierity and integrity and dignity
    perhaps could be damaging

    to judge and attack an individual in this manner
    is not a way of a seeker on the path
    and their heads needs to be sharply cut off

  109. satya says:

    you are right swami.
    your joke about thompson`s girlfriend telling you that she prefered to f”"k you rather than him was,due to your high level of consciousness not an attack at all,but an instance of compassion.
    tchh. the fools will never learn

    jai jai.

  110. frank says:

    this so-called universe
    is a juggling picture show
    to be happy
    look upon it so.

    –shiva. meditation 58

  111. Kranti says:

    Swami Rajnessh wants to be like Osho

    Satya wants to be like Swami Rajneesh in lungi

    And he calls others as ..

    ” you in your low state of consciousness could hardly be expected to understand… ”

    What a show of ego in the last two days..

  112. Anthony Thompson says:

    Rajneesh. All my judgments about the state of affairs related to you psyche are related to your role. they are not a a personal offense intended to replace an argument.
    Your insulting remark was a gratuitous offense due to lack of argument.
    It is like saying ” I am fucking your girlfriend UUUhhuuu”.
    If I say you are psychotic I say it as a psychological judgment, not as a gratuitous insult.

    I am not against any kind of judgment. I think they represent our opinions and view of the world. But what you say was not a judgment on my persona, but an intended aggressive
    insult.

    then you say it is a joke… should we all laugh?

    Satya says:
    “your joke about thompson`s girlfriend telling you that she prefered to f””k you rather than him was,due to your high level of consciousness not an attack at all,but an instance of compassion.”

    this is the worst rationalization I have heard here so far.

    I am sorry but this forum as never been about that.
    It has been about sharing, arguing and constructing criteria, opinions and judgments… not about insulting people.

  113. Anthony Thompson says:

    Finally rajneesh you suggest that people like me should have …” their heads needs to be sharply cut off”

    Now, you see my point. this is an awakened person or Atila the hunt?

  114. first remember
    that you are not my judge nor my master

    and your judgments are that of a mentally retarded
    and you can go back and read all your outbursts and childish retorts and see what was coming to you…

    and so far you have not placed one single clear argument and only vomitted out your judgements

    so i cut your head…or your your d++k off

    and you are suddenly defensive and all sweaty
    acting innocent and hurt and insulted

    attack me and i use my sword
    and cut whatever or wherever i choose
    so now face the music and dance

    and i am not satya…satya says what satya says

  115. anthony

    as far as responding to you is concerned
    i would rather choose the role of atila the hun
    chop chop chop…chop chop chop…..

    and who says that chopping
    is not for an awakened one ??
    they have the sharpest swords
    and chop chop chop…choop chop chop…

    the sword or the lotus ??

  116. Dhanyam says:

    Dar Amrito,

    I was happily surprised to see your posting.

    I find it very helpful to see your reply and point of view.

    You write so eloquently about what Osho wanted. As we approach the 20th anniversary of Osho’s departure, I am sure Osho didn’t want His community to be split apart, the many lawsuits, and the animosity that I see and read.

    One some previous posting, there was an intelligent message about reconciliation. Instead of quoting Osho to divide us, it would be great to use Osho’s words to unite us once again.

    Is it possible for you, the Inner Circle, the Resort to take the first steps to reconciliation?

    I look forward to your encouraging, positive reply.

    Love,

    Dhanyam

  117. Prem Abhay says:

    Dhanyam I am also all for reconciliation. However in order to do so just few people need to get booted out first: the leadership of the Inner-Circle; the directors of OIF; and Management Team India. Funny thing is I am not joking. There are differences between people like Anando and Shunyo, and Keerti and Arun. However these are in my opinion not divisions. The dividing is happening because of the establishment. They have sent people both ways – and all over the place. It then looks like the core issue is division – between Head and Heart; Bhakti and Meditation; or whatever.

    If the establishment gets booted out you will see that the differences are essential too Osho’s vision. It is not easy to find a Master with genius mind. It is not easy to find a Master with seemingly infinite love and compassion. Osho was a rare jewel that had both. Hence he left the full spectrum of types of people – enlightened or otherwise.

    Trouble is a few people have taken over the show and they need to be kicked out for their stupidity, ruthlessness, criminality and unconsciousness. They are not Head orientated people for there intellect is dull and deceptive – just contemplate Amrito’s response to Shantam, and read the posts. They are also not meditators because out of awareness one becomes sensitive. They are highly driven and intellectual, insensitive and insane and criminal. It is like asking for reconciliation with Sheela and the gang before (and instead of) their time in incarceration. Justice needs to be served. Of course meeting again of old friends that have been discarded by Jayesh, Amrito, and the gang can begin as soon as the Gang is kicked out – and hopefully sent to jail. It could also begin before hand, however for this one needs a little courage – not to much of that around I’m afraid.

    Kranti you asked for more responses to Amrito’s reply to Shantam’s email. I had already replied and since you asked I went through point by point – 16 points in all. You said you would respond point by point. I asked twice and you responded to 2 of the 16 points I made.

    You say “Osho has taught us the difference between ‘ Reponse and Reaction”. I see no evidence of that from you or Anthony so I do not believe you. Anyhow Osho did not teach anything for he was not a teacher but a Master. He explained the difference between response and reaction, and no doubt tried to show people the difference. In the end it is up to us to understand the difference.

    On the first issue in the Amrito/Shantam dialogue I will take it from you that you know the core of Amrito’s response. You say that he essentially said….sanyasins have to walk their walk and it is not Osho’s way to hang on to the past etc..

    You say the core issue is the difference between Head and Heart. It is likely that you will also say that the difference is between meditation and devotion. Meditation does not equate to Head. Head refers to the mind – including normal everyday intellectual processing like is taking place here. This has nothing to do with meditation. Meditation is about being aware. If I am aware of typing these words it is meditation relating to the head. If I am aware of deep love for my Master this is also meditation. Meditation comes first and love follows. With devotion on the other hand the path is the dissolution of our ego-self into the devotional object – a Master or a Goddess or whatever. However this devotion will only grow if it takes on the quality of awareness. Ultimately dissolution of the devotee can only take wings as it becomes more and more a meditative act.

    Shantam’s issue is why do sannyasins come and go? What is the real reason for some sannyasins leaving and others coming? He wants to no what Amrito thinks. Amrito says “sannyasins have to walk their walk”. You may say that this is Head orientated, or meditation orientated, or individual orientated. Amrito also says “it is not Osho’s way to hang on the past”. You may say that hanging on to the past is Heart orientated, devotional orientated, and hanging on the old attachment to the Master. This is not the case. Sannyasins have to walk their walk but the important word is “their”. It is “their” path and not anyone else’s. “Their” path may also include the possibility of deep affinity to a Master – in the body or not.

    Amrito also says that “it is not Osho’s way to hang on to the past etc..”. If devotion is of the nature that it is hanging on to the past then it is not authentic devotion. It is as fake as a meditator who merely thinks he or she is meditating – just ask Yogendra about that one. To a devotee even a Master that has left the body is a living presence. If the devotion does not become more and more in the present then it will be false. Devotion that becomes more and more in the present also becomes more and more of the quality of awareness. Obviously hanging on to the past was not Osho’s way. However that certainly does not exclude devotion towards him – including after he left the body. After all, why did he request his ashes be put under his bed? In doing so do you think he was trying to kick out all the devotees that were going to hang on to the past?

    Again, Amrito dismisses Shantam without addressing the question. The question is what is the real reason for some sannyasins coming and others going? Obviously sannyasins have to walk their walk. Obviously it was not Osho’s way to hang on to the past. I do not see how stating the obvious and then trying to construe that into a core issue of Head versus Heart or Meditation versus Devotion makes any sense.

    So we have 15 points to go.

    Kranti you say that when Amrito says that things are being done exactly according to Osho that you trusted him. You also say “Amrito can not say things which are not true ..”.

    KRANTI THIS IS THE BLIND (HEART) DEVOTION THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSEDLY CRITICISING…SUCH HYPOCRISY!!!

    Please do not discuss issues relating to Amrito for you a wasting everyones time here. Now at least I know why I have been trying to point out the bias in the last two threads. I could not work out why you wrote previously from your own understanding, and recently started a manipulative bias. Now I understand.

    On what basis do you trust Amrito? When did the trust happen? Did it grow or was it like an instant Yes?

    You say “I either express my general view or wherever required ask for facts”. Do you see the contradiction between this and what you have just said about Amrito? It is called heart orientated blind devotion. It is masked by a mind that believes it is thinking for itself. It is what cults are made of and is how people can commit grave crimes in the name of religion or some crazy guru.

    Kranti I know you did not mean that your discussion of Amitabh’s issues was a response to me, but you had only discussed the first of 16 points. Hence I was surprised. Perhaps you were trying to avoid discussing my critique of Amrito?

    On the issue of Mukta the devotee Kranti writes…. ( Kranti ) Did I say ‘ someone said ‘ ..Please read again.

    The ‘someone said’ was not in italics. I was pointing out that you did not refer to the particular person who made the statement you quoted, but that it did come from a particular person: me. The reason I did this is because I object to you using what I said to make a general point. It is quoting out of context, and in doing so if people re-read what I have written they may be confused by your doing so. Please read what I wrote again.

    I accept that ‘who is the greatest devotee’ is an important issue. I disagree that it is one of the core issues. In the Inner-Circle there were devotional type people. They are no longer there because of conflict with people like Jayesh and Amrito – who have no interest in Osho’s ‘image’. A core problem was not a battle between devotees; it was a battle between devotional and non-devotional people. Also in practice these divisions are part of a continuum – few people are entirely devotional or otherwise.

    The core issue is Why were all the devotees kicked out? This is what Shantam asked. Amrito says walk the walk and no hanging on to the past. This is dismissive and superficial. When you delve deeper – as I have done at the beginning of this post – you see that Amrito’s reply is superficial. What does walk the walk mean? What does hanging on to the past mean? Amrito does not answer this and nor do you. I have and it does not justifying kicking out all the devotees. It clearly was not Osho’s wish else why the Samadhi; why he left all the pictures hanging around as ‘wallpaper’; why he did not get Buddha Hall bulldozed himself? Amrito and Jayesh have pretty much managed to demolish everything that Osho left behind. The only trouble is the damned Samadhi. I know how much they would like to destroy that too. Of course the area around Lao Tzu is littered with damned Samadhis too – including Osho’s parents.

    Kranti I say ‘again I can’t wait’ to point something out: you wanted people to respond to Amrito. I did at the outset and then after your request I went through the dialogue point by point – 16 points in total. I asked twice for your response – after you said you would go threw my critique point by point. You responded to the first point, and later on I think you responded to a second point. The point is you are not being very pointed.

    Again, I can’t wait!

    Anthony you go on about respect and you cannot see how disrespectful you have been to Swami Rajneesh. All you want to do is talk down to him from your psychotherapy viewpoint – and in a malicious way – yet you have not heard his case.

    Anthony you say “If I say you are psychotic I say it as a psychological judgment, not as a gratuitous insult.” Anthony when I read your posts to Swami Rajneesh I do not see a professional detached psychologist. You have a personal dislike towards Rajneesh. It is your freedom to have views, however keep it to yourself unless it has some objectivity. At least be honest about your personal grudge. Also, all these people are hurt by jokes, what about verbal and physical threats and assaults on people like Rajneesh and myself. You are so much like a little child.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  118. Anthony Thompson says:

    Rajneesh. you are just another guy getting hooked here, feeling offended, or hurt, as much as i am. I do not need to be anything to judge you… that is my prerogative and birthright. as it is yours to judge me… and I do not demand you to be my master do so.
    BUt the point is gratuitous insult. that is all. You can call me mentally retarded, that is ok, it is your right to judge me… but no need to insult… just argue, ok?

  119. prem bubbie says:

    Dhanyam, I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as a sannyas community. Even back when Osho was around the “community” was actually a loosely based one, more of an organization of individuals on their own personal trips, whether to be close to Osho, money, power or simply, to fuck a lot!! That’s why it fell apart so fast after he left his body. There wouldn’t be any reconciliation and maybe never will, as i see it. I even hope it never happens. “KAT” seems to understand and as I mentioned in older posts: let go , let go , let go, Osho is your last barrier to samadhi, to bliss. You’re like adults who can’t seem to move out of your parents’ house. Osho is the catapult for us to fly to the stars, as long as you hold on to the catapult you ain’t going anywhere. I again call for the razing of the resort. Burn it, or even still nuke it so no one can even walk on that ground forever. On a windy day take Osho’s ashes and throw it to the wind–Fuck, they’re only ashes. You people are hung up on his ashes!!! Get a grip!!! Osho showed us we have wings– don’t be afraid– use them!!! Regarding Mr. Rajneesh– what can one do- the only way to treat organic illnesses is through therapy or medication or both. Good luck to you Mr. Raj.

  120. Prem Abhay says:

    Anthony could you just say that all along you have yourself not insulted Swami Rajneesh…just for the record.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  121. Anthony Thompson says:

    If swami rajneesh calls me mentally retarded as a judgment of what he thinks are my mental capacities it is his birthright and i do not object.
    It is part of his understanding of who I am. The same if i say he is a megalomaniac… also my birthright.

    But to say ” I fucked your girlfriend and she thinks I am better in bed than you” is just a gratuitous insult, with the purpose of insulting… not an opinion of anything or a judgment of myself.
    It is a high school male chauvinist insult, that is all.

    See the difference?

  122. Prem Abhay says:

    Anthony these are from you:

    [Anthony] well, we have the big baboon speaking, the impersonator, the one who profits from his master´s image, the one who considers himself the chosen one… the slow walking noone, showing off his meditativeness… HE, the swamiji… writing here.

    [Anthony] Swamiji rahneeshi would have been banned in a split of a second. the only reason he was accepted was because he was a harmless nut, crazy, as many you could see around.

    [Abhay] You call yourself a researcher so you are obviously well informed of the physical violence done to Swami Rajneesh. Therefore to say he was accepted because he was harmless is an insult and a lie. Swami Rajneesh was not accepted and he was harmfully assaulted.

    [Anthony] Do you think that was Osho´s vision… people kissing marble floors….That is simply attachment to form. Do you want to feel connected to your dead master. well, feel this moment and there you are… thou art that.

    Still you did not answer if kissing marble floors and looking for a place to pay respect to a dead master is what you understand for Osho´s way.

    [Abhay] Even I would take this as an utter insult and I am not the devotional type. You know Swami Rajneesh is, and this makes your insult all the worse.

    [Anthony] I think you are just angry becase from the time you were the slow walking harmless cookoo people were suggesting you to get treated.

    [Abhay] Again Swami Rajneesh did not get treated he got bashed up. To know this and say what you have is insulting.

    Amitabh you ask me to stick to the topic.. I´d rather speak against rajneesh…it is much more fun than what you sugest discussing

    [Abhay] This is patronizing.

    [Anthony] But to say ” I fucked your girlfriend…

    [Abhay] Swami Rajneesh did not say that. You heard that because what he said hit home. Your objectivity was swayed. He actually said…

    even your girlfriend mentioned secretly to me…
    that perhaps i would be better than you…

    [Abhay] There is a big difference between what you quote Rajneesh as saying and what he actually said.

    So we have it that you are being a detached psychotherapist/psychologist. I repeat again my question: do you think you have insulted Swami Rajneesh?

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  123. now now anthony do not get so excited..
    that you begin feeling that i am getting hurt !!!

    there is no way you can hurt me…

    i am pushing those pressure points…
    lazer surgery….with words…

    you can clearly see my obvious provocation
    i provoke and challenge….
    so come again if you dare…

    and….

    so far i have cut of your head
    and next it will be your d++k

    waiting…

  124. shantam prem says:

    Dhanyam // Oct 6, 2009 at 10:17 pm
    Dar Amrito,

    I was happily surprised to see your posting.

    I find it very helpful to see your reply and point of view.

    Dhanyam,
    dr. Amrito would not have dreamt that his personal response to me will become the thread of this discussion.
    As a code of conduct, it is not appropriate to bring personal letters for public consumption. but as it is said in legal maxim,” exceptions also exist.”

    In the present case scenerio of the ashram, they don’t communicate any more. They take the decisions and beleive if people need us, they will come otherwise who cares.
    The little team is not answerable to anybody.
    It is just like North Korea, there is no proper way of governing so the world has to rely on every small hint from the beloved leader, who is the Doctor, sorry son of a great leader.

    PS-The complete letter i have submitted in the previous post.

  125. shantam prem says:

    Anthony,
    i may not have the degree in Psychology like many of us, but all the attributes you used for Rajneesh in your psycho language, i can bet will fit quite well to Amrito/jayesh, the patriarchs of Osho movement.

    It is their narrow, freaky and out of time interpretation of Osho that Ashram is not like a jungle any more but a garden of some cigarettes selling corporate.
    Just realised, in the present ashram, one can feel more cigarette smoke per square meter than any fashion street in any western city.

    People have their fundamental right to become awake or to dream that they are awake. Even to become a prostitution is regarded as a leagl work in many nations.

    But the way, Amrito/Jayesh team has taken over the whole experiment, i will appreciate the courage of someone, who dares to open a ashram in Koregaon Park itself.
    It will be a nice joke and hilarious protest.

  126. Dear Swami Rajneesh

    What you are saying is right.

    Few people in this discussion are just judging and unnecessary making wrong statements about another person.

    As if the other person is a punching bag and they are throwing their anger/frustration/jealousy through their words.

    No one mind his own business. I better start looking at myself, So I am going off record with this comment.

    All the best to Osho Sangha – If something like this(Sangha) exist.

    but before leaving I would like to share one article on “Meditative Solution to Osho Copyrights Case”

    http://oshoteachings.blogspot.com/2009/07/meditative-solution-to-osho-copyright.html

    love
    Amitabh

  127. Kranti says:

    Swami Rajneesh & Abhay

    This is my request to you.

    What you posted is not appropriate and again later justifying that i did this as a surgery , i will cut this and cut that etc are just justifications.

    Yes , Anthony could have avoided few words. But as He said he only talked about you…. You can take it as an outburst and dealt with him in a manner of an awakened man ..

    You could have talked about him..anything beyond that is not justfiable

    And to see that few guys supporting that by saying it is the height of conciousness and It is good response and all is disgusting to the core

    Let us put a full stop here to this ugly justifications..

    Osho sannyasins have enough mud on the face and we are throwing more mud in ..

    Please i again request ..Dont justify again saying throwing mud is part of the spiritual awakening we are doing here ..

    I am posting this nervously and wait which part of my anatomy will be analysed for cutting..

    I am dropping out of this thread…

  128. Kranti says:

    One last post to Anthony..

    We discussed , debated so much in the last few months.. But i never saw the buttons of an awakened being pushed so much ..

    It was SUPERB FUN how the buttons of an awakened man can get pushed like this ..

    Osho always talks about the story of a person who lived in Himalays for 15 years and when he came down how someone stepped on his foot and how went wild..

    Now i have seen a real life example..

    If you go back to the first response to this thread from Swami Rajneesh you can see the anger started there when he said

    ” this so called article letting amrito of the hook ”

    You just poured little oil and enable the fire to come out..

    Infact as i see it.. It is not that Sw Rajnessh did surgery to you.. the joke is the surgery was done to Sw Rajnessh.. he is the one who got buttons pushed.. Abhay got the patient wrong

    There are no such things as awakened human beings and all. Thats is sheer bullshit

    There are only ordinary and beautiful human beings like Osho.. Thats why I love Osho

    Thanks to everyone

    I am winding up with this joke again..

    ” The Polack patient lying on the operating table whispers to the surgical-masked doctor, “You can take your mask off now, doctor, I have recognized you!

  129. Kranti says:

    Ah! You guys got reply from Osho..

    “This place here has gone far beyond being a commune. The commune was an alternative society I have dropped the idea of a commune too.

    “Now I want this place just to be a paradise — a holiday resort where you can relax, have a massage…soon there will be swimming pools, larger gardens and lawns. You can play on your instruments whenever you want, at whatever time you want. You can do your own thing.

    “This is not a commune, this is simply a gathering of all kinds of misfit people who cannot fit anywhere else. Here they can celebrate their misfitness without losing respect and honor and dignity.

    “This place has to leave in you a memory of sheer enjoyment, of silence and beauty. And people who are non-interfering with you, are happy in your happiness. Nobody is jealous, nobody is competitive. Nobody is even comparing.

    “But it all depends on you. I have created the space here. Now how you use it, is up to you.”

    Osho, The Hidden Splendor, #21

  130. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,
    Thanks for finding this wonderful quotation form Osho, the originator of a whole new concept of spirituality.

    Till 1999 collective management of that time has run the place exactly like this.
    Everybody who was connected with Osho liked this.

    When i give the example of storage facility business growing around ashram it was during 1993-2001. People were coming for months therefore thousands of trunks were stored at the rate of 50-75 rupees per month during this time period which went till 100-125 in the later years.
    After that it was an everymonth event to see the locks cut and the contents being sold at bottom prices.

    I believe after that period the top guys got their menopause or started taking Hashish kind of stuff.

    This period from 2000 onwards is nightmarish chapter in the history of Osho’s work.
    When the world is going by the 4th gear, resort is running on reverse.

  131. frank says:

    “i leave you my dream of chopping people`s dicks off”

    by:

    brian rajneesh
    deluded doppelganger
    fabled baboon hunter of india
    dick chopping fantasist
    author of `tears of anger from a misfit bozo`

    never born
    never grew up

    only visited this website
    2009-?

  132. Kranti says:

    Frank you are very frank

  133. Kranti says:

    I just cant stop laughing Frank

  134. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    Kranti , dont know if you are Swami or Ma,you seem to really be confused, though confusion is that which leads to seeking, you and Antony seem to be out of place here, maybe you two are a perfect couple,why dont you both go on a honeymoon
    or maybe a holiday , whatever suites you both.

  135. Kranti says:

    Thanks Swami Pavitro..

    I do accept that i am confused and still seeking

    Seeing by the quality of the enlightened beings and their blind devotees i prefer to be a seeker rather than a guy who has found awakening..

    I am a male and unfortunately not interested in dating another guy leave alone going for honeymoon

  136. Kranti says:

    ” ……confusion is a great opportunity. The problem with people who are not confused is great — they think they know, and they know not. The people who believe that they have clarity are really in great trouble; their clarity is very superficial. In fact they know nothing of clarity; what they call clarity is just stupidity.

    Idiots are very very clear — clear in the sense that they do not have the intelligence to feel confusion. To feel confusion needs great intelligence. Only the intelligent ones feel confusion; otherwise the mediocres go on moving in life, smiling, laughing, accumulating money, struggling for more power and fame. If you see them you will feel a little jealous; they look so confident, they even look happy… ”

    Osho

  137. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    Ok Swami Kranti , thank you for the information.

    There is a lot of sense in what Swami Rajneesh is saying , he is one the rare devotees who has the guts to stand up for what he feels.Most of the sanyasins who get their truth,go into silence or create their own ashram or space,maybe he needs to do what he is doing here , my wishes are with him .

  138. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    Hey Kranti you seem to be a parrot , hope you find the truth and stop being in this illussion that confussion is all that is!Love

  139. Kranti says:

    Ah! How come?

    If a so called Devotee quotes Osho then he is heart oriented and he loves Osho

    If other people who are not considered devotees quote Osho they become ‘ Parrots ‘

  140. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    l have not seen him quote here , and it is not about comparing at all .

    lam wondering lf you were gone , who is coming back , is this the same Kranti ?

  141. Kranti says:

    Same Kranti.. I have this habit you know..

    I say I am quitting.. but i keep coming..

    Are you living in Hawai ?

  142. Anthony Thompson says:

    Rajneesh you are just delusional. In your delirious state you see yourself as a master “chopping heads and dicks” for people´s own good, my own good and awakening.

    But the truth is you are pissed off, That is all. understandable, human, but pissed off. all you say it is simply a rationalization of your rude defensive outburst about my girlfriend.
    Why do you need to put yourself in a higher pedestal? and rationalize your own aggression as a device.

    I have been open and frontal, I do not like you and think you are psychologically disturbed. But I have not insulted you gratuitously.
    I do not need to hide my feelings and call them “i provoke and challenge….
    so come again if you dare…”

    when I say you are delusional, I mean you just do not see the obvious about yourself. you do not need to be a professor of psychology to see that your reaction speaks about yourself and your being hurt.

  143. oshobob says:

    just a practical reminder to all you battling warriors…

    the 20th anniversery of Osho “leaving the body” is only a little over 3 months away. The days slip by quickly, and if you are planning a global love-in at the Pune Resort, or a confrontation event of some kind, you had better start getting it together now…

  144. Atmo says:

    Anthony Thompson

    No need to repeat “I don’t like you” to Rajneesh, you don’t like him but he loves you anyhow, just feel it.

  145. Kranti says:

    With the way things are turning out it will not be a love-in.. It will be a global chop-off..Lot of guys will come back with incomplete anatomy

  146. oshobob says:

    Kranti, that reminds me of the renowned Russian surgeon, Dr. Vladimir Sergeivich Chopoff — after his operations, the patients didn’t feel any better from their diseases, but they did have a small consolation from losing a little weight in the process…

  147. opps opps beg your pardon mr goodbody anthony

    Little Ernie is sitting at the back of the class,
    a can of beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other when Miss Goodbody says “ okay children, today we are going to play something, and you try to tell me what i am thinking about.

    Okay here we go !
    The first thing is a fruit. It is round and red “
    Little billy raises his hand and says “ an apple “
    Miss Goodbody says “ no, it is a tomato,
    but i’m glad to see you’re thinking.

    The next one is round and it’s a green vegetable”,
    Little Mary says “ its’s a lettuce “
    No says Miss Goodbody, it’s a pea,
    but i’m glad to see you’re thinking

    Just then Ernie raises his hand
    and says “ hey teach ! mind if i ask you one ?
    Go right ahead says Miss Goodbody
    Okay says Ernie, I’ve got something in my pocket
    and it’s long and hard and it’s got a pink tip

    Ernie! Shouts Miss Goodbody, that’s disgusting

    It’s a pencil says, Ernie,
    but i’m glad to see you’re thinking !!
    ____________________________________

    now just purely for psychological researchers
    ____________________________________

    rajneesh says…

    even your girlfriend mentioned secretly to me…
    that perhaps i would be better than you…
    at you know what…
    and she would prove her point !!

    atleast i am glad be able to help you somewhere
    where you may appear to be lacking…

    anything for a friend or a girlfriend of a friend”

    no points for anyone guessing
    what anthony was thinking…
    obviouly fucking !!!

    any guess perhaps
    what rajneesh was thinking…
    intelligent arguing !!!

    it seems it hit some real raw nerve that anthony
    has a problem with getting it up and on with it

    sharpen you wit and sense of humor…dude…

    and the awards for utterly mr boring goes to kranti

    i really dig…kool frank…hey frankie let’s jive…

  148. Anthony Thompson says:

    yes Rajneesh we are all stupid. it was always clear that you meant “intelligent arguing” with my girlfriend.

    come on!

    at least have the courage to be honest…pretty lame for an enlightened one.

    But you know what…. the more you speak and try to justify yourself, the more you shoot yourself in the legs…
    so keep it coming… soon I will not need to reply to you… you´ll do it all yourself.

  149. now that’s what i call a dry witless boring mr box researcher

    oh what a boring drag…

    i agree with pavitro…perfect…
    anthony and kranti on a honeymooon together…
    atleast they can be ” gay together “

  150. Anthony Thompson says:

    see what i mean…just keep talking and your enlightenment is more and more obvious.

  151. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    Yes Kranti, in Molokai Islands , Hawai . are you two planning a holiday by chance , its a beautiful island , lam living here since 12years or so . love

  152. Kranti says:

    Swami Pavitro.. Thanks for the post.. I wsih i can come . I dont have the financial stregnth.. Anyway after posting the message i was looking at wikipedia photos of Hawai.. You are in paradise .

    Do you visit Pune regularly?

  153. Kranti says:

    ” atleast they can be ” gay together ”

    Sorry Rajnessh. I am not interested.. Osho has taught me enough to be natural human being

    Thanks for the suggestion though

  154. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    No not been there since ‘ 89 l took second time sanyas and came back to the west after Bhagwan left his body .

  155. Heraclitus says:

    OshoBob mentions Swami Prem Paritosh (sadly now deceased) as a sort of doppleganger/double agent and as a mover of some of these forces unleashed between various factions!
    Actually Paritosh was the main founder of sannyasnews.com which was this internet version of an ongoing engagement of this sort by a small number of motivated sannyasins in London since 1985. This started with a small newssheet called Sannyas News, and followed by a magazine called Here and Now for much of the late eighties.
    The initial mover of these earlier movements was a chap called Swami Anand Parmartha who continues to edit the present sannyasnews. com, and knowing him a little I would say he is your main doppleganger/double agent here!

  156. now i begin roasting amrito
    step by step…in parts…chop chop chop…
    so that they are defined targeted questions

    to begin with…first question…

    OSHO GUIDELINES
    the tommorow that never came !!!

    amrito announcement in the buddhahall
    19 january 1990
    “ anando is preparing a full account
    of osho’s guidlines
    on the workings of this group and who is in it…
    it will be available for all to read tommorow “

    now read carefully ….ma prem sangeet

    one of people who has demonstrated a willingness
    to change Osho’s words is Amrito.
    shortly after Osho left His body,
    and after He had said that Anando
    would be His medium,
    Amrito suggested to Anando ( in front of me )
    that she give some messages
    that Amrito had prepared and say
    they were channeled from Osho.
    Anando refused to do it,
    but Amrito remained insistent
    that it was a good thing to do.

    now we really know why
    those osho guidlines never came

    dr john andrews or whatever amrito…
    can you cook up a defence and reply the critics ??

    and since you announced this in the buddhahall
    and that too while delivering
    ” the last message of osho ”
    to the sannyasins and the world at large
    you are now accountable
    and answerable to all

    and i demand those guidlines…
    or pack up and leave the ” resort ” immediately

    lying
    and that too
    in the buddhahall
    and that too
    on his last death announcement

    now face the fire test
    and walk your talk…

    we are all waiting for this coward to respond

    rajneesh the rebel
    and on his own authority

  157. oshobob says:

    Thanks Heraclitus for that Brief History of the Known Sannyasnews…

    And yes, I would agree that our behind-the-scenes friend Parmartha is one of the main movers and shakers here. For sure! But all these sannyasins supposedly dying — I’m skeptical. Someone ought to look into that…

    One day we may all lay down our masks — the doctor doing the surgery on the Polack, Doc Amrito, Doctor Bob, Doctor Feelgood, Dr. Chopoff and all the rest…

    And speaking of doctors, Rajneesh — that speech that Doc Amrito/Meredith/Andrews gave on January 19, 1990, recorded in the video “I Leave You My Dream”, was just a crock-of-shit. The whole text from beginning to end was bogus. Our Doctor Zhivago thinks he’s a poet? A screenwriter? An actor? Come on, gimme a break…! Well, he may fit in with Julie Christie in the David Lean movie, but it’s looks to me to be more like the great Mad Magazine parody I read when I was a kid — “Doctor Chicago!” A classic. An absolute classic.

  158. Anthony Thompson says:

    now we go to the world of fantasy:

    “Amrito suggested to Anando ( in front of me )
    that she give some messages
    that Amrito had prepared and say
    they were channeled from Osho.
    Anando refused to do it,
    but Amrito remained insistent
    that it was a good thing to do.”

    I am pretty sure amrito did this in public ( in front of rajneesh)… just in case anyone felt like reporting this at some point.

    I have talked to anando a number of times and if you know her you would think to be stupid to ask anything like that AND in front of some one else.

    This is just disneyland.

  159. deep silence prevails

    now…the second question

    OSHO ON SECRECY
    the secret of secrets !!

    He stressed that the inner workings
    of the committee were to remain a secret

    what are the great hidden secrets
    of a working committe that is only
    looking after mundane work
    and practical day to day matters
    with pragmatic practical ways to decide things

    the open secret is…
    that it is a common fact that osho was always hounded by tax authorities especially in india where tax laws are avoided and donation and properties
    and income is hidden from tax authorities …

    hence osho said
    that the inner workings of the committee
    are to be kept a secret

    he made it abundantly clear
    that they were not his spiritual successors
    and neither capable to be
    as he states that they are
    not to even a club to discuss philosophy !!

    “The Inner Circle” is not a club to discuss philosophy.

    so doctor ( dropped swami title ) amrito
    john andrews, dr george meredith,
    swami devraj of the past living in the present

    wants osho according to the vision of
    his dr jeckel & hyde multiple personality disorder

    always stating or asking
    “ what would have osho wanted “

    just who are you to ask
    or propose to know
    or create osho proposals
    as to what are osho’s wishes in any regard ??
    or interpret so called oshos wishes
    of what osho “ would have” wanted
    based on your own unconcious philosophy

    please kindly present your proposals
    to your own de-hypnotheraphy for self treatment

    ywe demand that you leave the resort
    chanting your prescribed mantra yourself

    ” forgive and forget osho….forgive and forget osho ”
    when you return back to england

    so three hail mary’s
    and long live amrito
    and god save the queen…

  160. Anthony Thompson says:

    rajneesh. You are right about amrito saying he would have the information about the working of the inner circle next day and…still waiting.

    But the story of anando and amrito is just sheer invention on your part.
    so, we have to add patholocally lying to your profile?

    Lay people my not know what is true. But people like me are well informed and done extensive research and what you say it is not true. . and you know that. You just add that up to support your arguments. But there is no need. It is true that ” the next day information” never appeared.

  161. Kranti says:

    ” and the awards for utterly mr boring goes to kranti”

    What to do Rajnessh .. I am a natural man ..neither an awakened human being nor a gay.. nothing exciting

    Also afraid of loosing a body part everytime i post a message ..That fear prevents me from being creative like you..

  162. oshobob says:

    Anthony, though it wasn’t very clear from Rajneesh’s post, I think he meant to be quoting Ma Sangeet on her being the witness to that exchange between Amrito and Anando — not Rajneesh himself.

    I think I remember reading that text from Ma Sangeet somewhere on the web too recently — either on this forum where she was talking about the trademark case that she was involved in, or on the Osho Friends International website, under one of its explanatory pages of the trademark/copyright issue.

    Anyone else remember this…?

  163. Anthony Thompson says:

    don´t be afraid kranti… a watch designer ( former profession of rajneesh) works with very small tools, at the most he could cut your fingernails.

  164. Anthony Thompson says:

    Oshobob. find me the quote and I will do some research about that, icluding double checking with Anando. You know i am good at it. I got you Jayesh profile and the location of prem Isabel. so get the info and I´ll do the research.

  165. blindly anthony says:

    now we go to the world of fantasy… blah blah blah
    this is just disneyland…blah blah blah

    and blah blah blah…
    but the story of anando and amrito
    is just sheer invention on your part.
    so, we have to add patholocally lying to your profile?

    i have decided not to hit you anymore
    i only hit someone who is sharp and strong
    so they grow sharper…

    read what is clearly written…and strangely it said…

    now read carefully ….ma prem sangeet

    and i don’t do fingerails…only body parts…

    but i will spare you and kranti now onwards
    as long as you wag your judgmental tails
    between your own legs
    and keep it away from my sword

  166. shantam prem says:

    Pyare Rajneesh Bhai,

    It is your fundamental right to create your space in the spiritual market. and i am happy that you have done it in a shorter period of time. This one can see when your unappointed followers/sympathisers
    bark back.
    And i am sure, being an intelligent person, you don’t need little puppies around you, who bark on the people to see you in danger!

    What i appreciate is that you feel the pain, the way doctor and company are destroying the world’s most advanced inner research facility, developed by our beloved Osho.
    It seems other than few of Amrito’s people we are all step disciples…

    SO my point is instead of psycho analysing Rajneesh, My researcher friend should point out, How the resort people can win people’s heart.
    I think Anthony is honest enough to see that majority of His people are not happy.To brand all these people as retro will be just foolish..
    I have read many times from Anthony, the way system is operating is quite fine for him.

    I want to know from him, do majority of His people feel like this.

    and i believe, nobody will bullshit the parrot words,” Majority is always blind. osho himself never cared about public opinion and so forth.”

  167. Anthony Thompson says:

    Again, please anyone with the slightest psychological education can see this a megalomaniac trip:

    “but i will spare you and kranti now onwards
    as long as you wag your judgmental tails
    between your own legs
    and keep it away from my sword”

    I am the master of the universe… I am teaching everyone with my sword… I am great… you are low…ha, ha

    Man, you are worse than I thought!!!

  168. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam. You ask me a question I can not answer… simply because I do not have the measurements to answer your question. I could take the people I see in pune every year, but that would be biased, because they are there, or I could take the people in the forum, but that would be biased because they are not there. honestly I do not know.
    I am more concerned about the psyothic magalomaniac guy confusing sannyasins into declaring himself Osho successor… to tell you the truth.

  169. my love for you to save your research time
    fro inner research…

    the letter of Ma Pem Sangeet
    (Sangeet was City lawyer of Rajneeshpuram)

    The claim made by OIF and by the
    Management Team is, again, that the purpose of copyrights is to protect Osho’s work.
    However, the greatest threat to the integrity of Osho’s work is not from some amorphous “them” outside.
    The greatest threat comes from, perhaps
    well-meaning, sannyasins
    who believe they know what Osho’s teaching
    is and will edit and interpret it for others.
    This can be done by limiting access to some of the work, changing Osho’s words, and creating an official “Vision.”
    It is because of this threat that a broad-based control of Osho’s copyright is so important.

    One of people who has demonstrated a willingness to change Osho’s words is Amrito.
    Shortly after Osho left His body, and after He had said that Anando would be His medium,
    Amrito suggested to Anando (in front of me) that she give some messages that Amrito had prepared and say they were channeled from Osho.
    Anando refused to do it, but Amrito remained insistent that it was a good thing to do.

    Since then, others have reported to me instances where Amrito has changed Osho’s words.
    I have one example of a “Zen Stick” which appeared on Osho.org that takes several paragraphs
    of From Death to Deathlessness, Chapter 26, completely out of context and does not indicate deletions.
    This pseudo quote was used to criticize the press for attacking Bill Clinton’s sexual activity in the Oval office.

    One example may not be too important, but the willingness to change and use Osho for one’s own purposes and to support one’s own views is important.
    I suggest that we review videos, audios, recently published books, and past issues of magazines to look for further deletions, additions, and changes in Osho’s work.
    Several people have reported various deletions from The Book of Wisdom recently published by Element, but I have not yet seen it myself.

    (…)
    We need to protect Osho’s work by providing a broad-based group to caretake, not control, it.
    Osho created a model group process for taking care of His work in which every participant would be respected and decisions would be made by consensus.
    He placed a wide variety of people in the original group; people with various points of view and perspectives.
    In contrast, the current Inner Circle seems to have been selected on the basis of loyalty
    to a small faction of the original group,
    and the Inner Circle has allowed a small group of men to claim full control of all aspect of Osho’s work.
    This, I believe, constitutes the greatest danger to Osho’s work.

    Ma Prem Sangeet

  170. shantam prem says:

    i think most of us have noticed-

    Shantam Prem:
    Please let the place be run by His 20 people in a transparent way.

    Amrito’s reply: Again, it is your mind which mentions transparency. It was Osho’s request that this be done in secret.

    Doctor speaks about transparancy and secracy, but simply swallowed His 20 people….

    If just 20 of His disciples cannot find an reasonalby acceptable solution for a 24 acres resort and not more than one million concerned people, than my request is to burn down all those books where He spits on priests and politicians, and the institutions on the earth
    which are dealing with around 7 billion people and trillions of dollers worth of exchange happening everyday.

  171. prem bubbie says:

    MY , my, my…. Mr Rajneesh and Mr. Pavitro(Hawaii), So your ugliness comes out again. For most of Osho’s time homosexuality was not a problem, catholicism was and is, but when he changed his mind in the late ’80′s suddenly it was alright to bash gays and bisexuals. Talking about sannyasin parrots!!! Again Osho contradicted himself, yet most sannyasins latched on to the negative message(cause it was easier to hate than to love) and began another Inquisition. Mr Rajneesh, and Mr. Pavitro are the real parrots here. Suddenly Rajneesh’s “enlightenment” disappears and hypocrisy and ugliness are revealed. So what if anyone gay or bi , what happened to your wisdom Mr. Rajneesh? Where is your love Mr. Pavitro? Like a fart in the wind it disappeared. Satya, here’s your revered wise and enlightened man Rajneesh, his true colors showing, the more he speaks the more insane he shows himself to be. Sw. Amitabh, here’s your infantile guru with his sophomoric humor. Prem Abhay, I will defend anyone who has been physically attacked and threatened, but verbal criticisms are just fine. If someone can’t take the heat then get out of the kitchen. I think you’ll be whining and complaining about the inner circle into your next life, you are so obsessed, it’s hilarious!!! Mr. Rajneesh, I think you are revolting, a creep, and a loser. You take your time walking so you can think of different ways to manipulate people, and to think of different ways to gain control of the “resort”. May Osho bring you back gently to reality.

  172. shantam prem says:

    Prem Bubbie,
    The above was the real outburst post from you.
    was it so personally touching?

  173. shantam prem says:

    Beloved friends,
    Those who look for living light, why to go for satsang givers, In Syberia lives a 21st century Christ, well documanted by CNN, ABC NEWS etc.
    for reading pleasure, below is the link-

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209858/Jesus-Siberia-Ex-traffic-policeman-says-son-God-leads-thousands-followers-Russia.html

    Please, forward this link to Amrito also. May be one can create colobration between these two people.

  174. Prem Abhay says:

    Wow Ma Prem Sangeet absolutely nails it….spot on!!!

    Anthony and Swami Rajneesh raised an immensely important point. The question asked of why Amrito did not inform the next day about the people and workings of the regime should have been asked every day until now. It is very revealing that the question is only being asked now. Sheep gather in a flock to follow Dr Shepherd. The others are too polite to do anything other than leave. You see by leaving quietly they actually have been de-hypnotised by Dr Shepherd into believing they are leaving silently and meditatively.

    OshoBob so you want a party in Pune do you? I remember last party I had I asked a sannyasin sitting at the German Bakery showing off his video camera whether he would like to accompany me down to the front gate for a little afternoon entertainment with the Gang. My generous offer for a short close-up action reality show was unfortunately turned down. You see people are just too polite.

    What I was thinking OshoBob is that we get the juicy stuff from SannyasNews and other sources, make it into a book, and I will go and sell it outside the front gate of the resort. If Swami Rajneesh would not mind I would also like to sell his book too. From past experience it should take less than a minute for the doctor (oops I meant to say director) to call ‘action’. I think there should be seated viewing and several video cameras to catch all of Dhyanesh’s slow motion mass.

    If you don’t think I would do such a thing then you have not read my blog. If you don’t think that I will get assaulted then read my blog. Also I am not a devotee of Jesus, hence if I get one cheek slapped I do not offer the other one for more slapping.

    Many people probably do not understand the link between peaceful protest and democracy. Democracy is ‘rule by the people’. The emphasis is on people not tyrants, so the right for people to voice their opinion peacefully is upheld in democracies.

    I have been criticised in this thread for being totally obsessed with water. I have also been criticised in this thread for being totally obsessed with the Inner-Circle. Anthony I was wondering if I can be totally obsessed with two things at once? Is that the fire test that either brings enlightenment or insanity?

    In the last thread I presented what Anthony considered a conspiracy theory about Anando: in my deluded opinion she actually moved away – including leaving the Inner-Circle – because she was being polite. Anthony I was just wondering whether research has confirmed through private interview that I am cuckoo?

    Also I asked Anthony the following:

    Anthony, the big boys got left Osho’s dream, what is left for Anando the medium?

    Anthony, have you read Shunyo’s book. I seem to recall (don’t have the book with me) that there was an Inner-Circle for managerial stuff, and another Circle of close disciples. Shunyo was not in the original Inner-Circle. Maneesha was not in the Inner-Circle. I seem to recall both these close disciples were in the second circle (of around 12 or so people I think). Was this Osho’s spiritual Inner-Circle and the other one was Osho’s managerial Inner-Circle? If so, why do not the spiritual Inner-Circle bring a stop to the antics, or at least bring transparency to the secretive regime?

    Any news???

    The issue of Anando being the medium is especially more interesting having heard about Ma Prem Sangeet’s overhearing.

    Of course I am not returning to the Pune resort front gate because there is no food or water that I could possibly drink without seriously infringing on my bodies right for a long and healthy life – not to mention that I would be putting my life at risk. Before you criticise me on that one read my blog.

    Kranti you seem to have taken a liking to the quote about a swank new resort transforming humanity. Where are the misfits? Where are the instruments? Have you tried doing your own thing? What about this idea of people non-interfering? ‘Soon there will be larger gardens and lawns’….Have you been down to the local sewer lately – Osho Teerth I think they call it these days? And as far as the swimming pool, an engineer called Mahasukh said to me that one monsoon it would have been like swimming in shit – from the contamination report. He said he would have closed it down. Of course the microbiologist said that the contamination (in general) was much worse the following year. So yes Kranti swimming pool is there, but so is the shit!!! Ah yes “but it all depends on you”. That is the problem Kranti. The space was created. The Ranch also had so much potential but alas it all depended on tyranny. The resort had so much potential and from what I heard got off to a good start. Perhaps too good a start: the greedy tyrants took over and played with the wiring of the Osho jumbo jet. Kranti, nice quote…keep quoting it!!!

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  175. Kranti says:

    Abhay.. Wherever you come up with facts i am all ears..
    Thats why I agreed you started of so well with water contamination issues but got diverted compeletely

    Osho said Choose your enemy carefully because in fighting him you will become like him.. But you chose your friend wrongly…

    The Sword troating and ‘ body parts’ cutting zen master . Instead of water contamination reports you are carrying blood contamination reports..

    I see Harri Om missing and you are active..

  176. Kranti says:

    Read ‘ The Sword trotting … “

  177. shantam prem says:

    Day in, day out i go on feeling about the cosmic tragedy imposed upon us by the rotten management team.
    The resort had so much potential and from what I heard got off to a good start. Perhaps too good a start: the greedy tyrants took over and played with the wiring of the Osho jumbo jet…

    First wiring defect created by human mind was to Rechristian the name of 17, Koregaon Park.

    Resort….. sounds like escort girl.
    Escort girl can give much better head…but she will not be the Ma…

    To run the Ashram as per His vision, the way it was, Let Milarepa and Miten and Premal play their music.
    Those who feel allergic to such music can sit in their rooms…

    Osho has done enough.. now it is upto us.
    i hope the silent majority of the people will open their vocal chords…time to kick the secret agents out…

    Man who spoke continuously for 35 years over the most occult themes of life, gave the instuctions to His doctor to work secretely…. Fuck the liar!

  178. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti you say that I am “carrying blood contamination reports..”. Do you not realise that in doing so you prove my point? If you go to my blog, you can click on a link that takes you to a summary of articles. Actually here is the link:

    http://alivezenoshogossip.blogspot.com/

    Look at the following two reports:

    Report to Police: Assault 1
    Report to Police: Assault 2

    What you will find Kranti is that I exercised my right to peaceful protest and Assault 1 happened. Assault 2 however was nastier: if you read the report carefully you will see that it was likely that I was set-up to be assaulted.

    Now in exercising my right to peaceful protest if someone is going to try and beat me to a pulp with bars and sticks (or a knife) then I consider it wrong to lie down and accept the beating – hoping that at the end of it I am not dead. I assume that in India there is the legal right to self-defence.

    The point is Kranti that I was engaged in a peaceful protest – handing out a piece of paper: Water Contamination Report. This report is also listed in the above link if you want to read its contents. If I was allowed to go about my business I would have handed out the reports and then walked backed to the German Bakery and had a chai. However have a read of what actually happened (Assault 1).

    I am assertive to a point, but I have only ever set out to exercise peaceful protest. I wanted people to know the truth of the Water Contamination (and many other issues) – note here that Amrito warned me not to come to Pune. The key is that the violence comes from the resort – and it comes fast. This is why if your reference to ‘blood’ has any truth to it, it is proof of how far the resort will go. Of course I already have the proof – read the reports. If I was left alone when I was handing out the reports the most I would have done is hand you a paper – if you wanted one. That is my side and I did not move from that position. Read the reports.

    Of course as Swami Rajneesh points out, this creates fear in both the outsiders and the insiders. It seeks to keep away the opposition and shut-down dissent that may come from within. I am sure it has worked very well. The only problem is that it has proven that the resort will resort to physical violence – also if you read the second report you will see just how calculating they can be.

    Kranti you are lucky that Harri Om was sick of trying to wake up ignorant fools. You have had enough cold water from Rajneesh – same goes for Anthony.

    Yahoo
    Abhay
    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  179. now…question three…

    DANCING TO AMRITOs TUNES
    in the enforcment resort !!

    when Amrito asked … Music ?
    no factual answer is given
    just parrot like repeating his deluded mantra…
    ” we have exactly the music osho has asked for ”

    now let’s examine the facts
    for all osho music lovers

    atleast music is freedom
    and musicians are not political
    and these are few of our most loved
    and treasured sannyasins who create osho’s fire

    why is our most beloved and loved fellow traveller milarepa banned ?
    why is our totally faarout and chilled
    prem joshua banned ?
    why are our sensitive juicy and uplifting osho songs
    miten & premal banned ?

    no osho ( unedited ) songs are allowed in the resort…

    all the word and lyrics of each and every osho song
    have to be sent to amrito first
    who decides which words of the song are allowed
    and which words have to be changed
    the song lyrics and rules on osho songs are so strict
    that amrito previously known as “ the hawk “
    is now termed “ the enforcer “

    hence the famous term in poona
    “ the enforcement resort “

    i have seen with my own eyes…
    an old sannyain was strumming his guitar
    just humming and singing old songs to himself…
    near buddhagroove was removed from the resort

    i know personally…
    without naming the well known singer…
    she was warned
    not to ever sing old songs again anywhere…
    in the resort or outside the resort !!

    so let all the meek and obedient sheep
    dance to amritos tune…

    and once again…long live amrito…
    and three hail mary’s
    for is keeping osho’s message virgin
    just for amrito to f++k

    and again i demand amrito leave the resort

    ———————————————————–

    ” amrito replies his critics ”
    utter bullshit as he has no guts to even reply…
    so where is he hiding…afraid of me ??

    rajneesh the rebel who dares

  180. Anthony Thompson says:

    Ok. I got the reply from Anando not knowing what Is Sangeeta talking about. She was asking m,e when this was supposed to have happened?
    End of story…

    regarding rajneesh liking of old songs.
    As far as know nowadays no songs worshiping Osho are officially sun either in heart dance of sannyas celebrations. But no one is interfered with if they feel like singing them. In fact, last winter in a variety show Old Osho songs were sung by a singing couple.
    it is no secret that officially the resort is not encouraging Adoration for Osho.
    Bhakti path has been used for centuries in India. The idea is to rise the heart- love vibration using the master as an object, so that the master can reflect back to you that vibration. It is a method, a path.

    But a dangerous one when the master is not there, because the only thing you are devoted to is your own fantasy and mind projections… there is no master to kick your ass back or to set you free at due time. You are hooked in your own devotional trip and the enjoyment of your own endorphins. But you will not become more aware.

    bhakti does not produce awareness. It is used as an opening of unconscious defenses mecanisms of the ego.
    Of you get stuck in the adoration you will never become aware. serotonine and endorphin are realse during these emotional states, and they are awareness reducers, They lower critical thinking and the ability to percieve.

    The master is no more here. therefore such method is useless and dangerous… more over the new people feel no appeal with such way of relating to personal search.

    bahkti path and the phenomenological search for truth, called meditation should be used in stages. But bhakti ( devotion) should be thrown away if you want to know the truth of phenomena. That is why Osho left surrender behind at the end of his work.
    From 1984 until the day of his death he insisted on the value of doubt and inquire instead of trust and surrender , which was stressed in the `70.
    At the end of his life his whole emphasis was in awareness and meditation. Not on devotion ( that work was done) but on doubt and presence.

    My understanding is that the resort is following that last line.
    And also it was osho the one who said that he wanted a club med. as in meditation and wanted his place to be the greatest health club in the world. This was said on may 19 1989.

  181. prem bubbie says:

    shantam prem, I am personally touched because I saw how overnight devoted, yet gay sannyasins, including several friends from the ranch, were suddenly ridiculed, harassed and even threatened if they did not drop sannyas. Wonderfully devoted to Osho, with their hearts radiating love, they overnight became pariahs, outcasts. How the ugliness and stupidity came to the surface so quickly, just because Osho decided to contradict himself, AGAIN!!! No intelligence, no love, just vicious gossiping, bubble-brains pretending to be seekers. Mr. rajneesh and Pavitro are continuing that tradition very well. Unfortunately you Shantam are too shallow to see that, all hung up about trivial bullshit, with your fake love, and bogus seeking; you must be German!!!!! So many basket cases on this thread, mumbling like good parrots, and robots that need lubricating. I think Sannyas News should change it’s name to Moron News, a more fitting and empty title. “More Shit That’s Fit To Print”!!!!!!

  182. so now suddenly anthony the researcher
    becomes the expert on bhakti path
    with no experience himself
    and claims not to be a sannyasin

    the ego
    of being enough unto himself
    he was not stupid to have taken sannyas
    because he is beyond the way of the heart
    and lives and understands the state of awareness…

    and has become the new OFI offical parrot
    and kiss ass of amrito…

    welcome to the osho resort all researchers
    you are welcome to be introduced
    to amritos freedom
    and osho’s way of zen…
    therapy…

    first lets chain smoke so we get rid of those
    serotonine and endorphin
    that are realse during these emotional states,
    and they are awareness reducers,( opps enhancers )
    They lower critical thinking and the ability to percieve.
    ( opps heighten the state of awareness )

    then lets get drunk so we get rid of those
    serotonine and endorphin
    that are release during these emotional states,
    and they are awareness reducers,( opps enhancers )
    They lower critical thinking and the ability to percieve.
    ( opps heighten the state of awareness )

    then join amritos de-hypnotherapy
    to hypnotise you…
    forget and forgive osho forgive and forget osho…

    and emphasise our official press reports dictumn
    we are here to erase osho from your mind memory !!

    then let soms sell some
    therapies to create awareness
    so that we can milk these innocent cow
    and pay for our cigerettes and alchol parties…
    yippie yippie osho zen is the way…

    and we have a profound intellectual researcher
    to state the facts after years of research in india
    with a phd
    ( in stupidity of…research…opps ego )

    ego ego ego…blind ego….

  183. Anthony Thompson says:

    Rajneeshi… do not mock me, contradict me, refute my points. do not ridicule me: If you think I am wrong… proove me wrong!

    I stated my opinion. the resort way agrees with me. I have criticized the resort management in all the points I do not agree. I do not represent amrito. I am no one representative.

    So, I am waiting for your own understating of the need of a devotional attitude towards a dead master.
    I argued why i think it is dangerous, let us hear your point.

    By the way when you use the word ego do you refer to the existential sense of separation or pride and vanity?

  184. Anthony Thompson says:

    In case you huys care about the quote used by rajneesh from Ma Sangeet. this is Anando`s response

    hello anthony

    well, you certainly gave me a good laugh!
    i cannot imagine why sangeet would say such a thing. it is certainly not true.
    in fact it is so preposterous that i cant really think of anything else to say!

    but thank you for checking it out.

    regards to you,”

    end of story as i said.

  185. Kranti says:

    Anthony ..Thanks for nice post

    I was thinking whether people need the approach of devotion and whether PUNE need to take into account people at various stages of their spiritual growth. Not everyone will be wisdom oriented.But the issue of master not in the body increases the risk of people getting attached to symbols is there..

    Devotion seems to be basically outward looking whereas wisdom path seems to be inward looking from the word go..

    Infact i recall Osho saying somewhere that the master leaving the body should be the final liberation for the seeker..Now he should not be attached anything ..

    By that understanding Sw Rajneesh should have gone beyond Osho.. But he may say whether master lives in the body or not is an issue.. Love is the key..something like that..

    But surely cutting body parts does not seem to be Bhakti / Devotion approach..It seems to be ZEN(?) approach.. May be Rajneesh is mixture of alll these

    Let us wait for him to enlighten us about Devotion..It will be good learning..

  186. In this discussion thread and other threads, i have often seen the devotion being associated to Indians only and it gets ridiculed by some “intelligent” people. But personally I have met so many Western sannyasins who appreciate devotion.

    I was surprised to observe, very suddenly–in year 2000–millennium time, devotion was declared to be a dirty word by Amrito and OIF–no heart, no bhakti, no sufi, only Zen. Taking only one dimension out of the multi-dimensional vision of a multi-dimensional master, to make Osho look as dry as J. Krishnamurti. This is what the minds of Amrito and his group have done. This did not start until 2000, this started suddenly during the millennium celebration to depict Osho as only one dimensional person–A Zen Master only. And this Zen is also not so broad, it is very narrow–in the words of the doctor: You don’t need to do anything else, except a walkman or ipod, and listen to Osho discourses and nothing else is needed.
    And this is our multi-dimensional celebration as declared by officials!

    I see lots of sense in Osho’s vision right from the very begining of his work. He was never in favour of giving the decision making power in the hands of handful of people like it is today. Every center and sannyasin was free to duplicate and distribute Osho discourses and circulate anywhere in the world–with the master’s blessings–without any restrictions. Nobody got any threatening letters, rather everybody was encouraged to contribute to Osho’s work in any way he or she could. Today 2-3 people want to decide how other thousands of people should do. How could the thousands of Osho lovers trust the wisdom of 2-3 people sitting somewhere and deciding the course of Osho’s work and vision for all. It is disrespectful to other thousands of Osho lovers who would contribute to Osho’s work in their own way. Amrito, Mukesh, Jayesh these two three people seem to have a very narrow vision, that’s why the number of people coming to commune has been shrinking so fast. Who can be happy just behaving according to the dictates of 2-3 male minds, with no heart? Clerverly they have removed all the women sannyasins from any decision making in the resort. Jayesh, Amrito, Pramod, Mukesh–are all men! Together they make a very boring group. All minds only. And minds of monopolisers.

    Now some quotes from the master, to add a few more dimensions to the discussion:

    “Those who love me, those who know me, know perfectly well that I am their master, and they have traveled a long way with me, in devotion and love. And of course, it is impossible for them at any moment — even if they become enlightened — to call me a friend. That will be simply ungratefulness.” (Read the whole discourse Beyond Psychology, Chapter #24)

    Now this quote about devotion you can read even a Zen discourse:

    Sariputta, one of Buddha’s chief disciples, became enlightened. With tears in his eyes he came to Buddha and he said, “I was avoiding enlightenment, but you went on insisting. Now I am enlightened and my eyes are full of tears because I know you will send me away from you, just to spread the fire. And I understand your compassion, that you are continuously aware of the many who can become buddhas; just a little support is needed. Those who have not gone very far away from themselves can be called back very easily.”
    Buddha said, “Then why are you crying?”
    He said, “I am crying because I will not be able to touch your feet every day as I have been doing for these twenty years.”
    Buddha said, “Do one thing. Keep a map with you, and remember in what direction I am dwelling. Just bow down in that direction. Touch the feet symbolically, touch the earth — because after all this body is made of earth, and one day it will go back to the earth. So touching the earth is not only touching my feet, but touching the feet of all the buddhas who have ever happened. They have all dissolved their bodies in the earth. So there is no need, and it does not look right, that an enlightened person should weep and cry.”
    Sariputta said, “I don’t care what people think, but the reality is that tears are coming. And according to your teachings, I should be spontaneous and authentic. Even if you say, `Don’t weep,’ I am not going to listen. Tears are coming, what can I do? I cannot be a hypocrite, smiling though the eyes are full of tears.”
    It is said that Sariputta, wherever he was, in the morning would look at the map, to find exactly where Buddha was, and in that direction he would bow down and touch the feet of Buddha. He came to have thousands of disciples of his own and they said, “It does not look right. You need not do such a gesture. You are a buddha yourself.”
    He said, “It is true, I am a buddha myself, but I would not have been a buddha if I had not met Gautam the Buddha. It is the meeting with this man that triggered something in me, burned all that was false and brought all that was true in its pristine purity and clarity. I owe so much to this man that there is no way to pay him. All that I can do is touch his feet from miles away.”
    He continued to his very last breath. Before he died — he died before Gautam Buddha — the last thing he said to his disciples was, “Forgive me because you cannot see those invisible feet. Let me touch the feet of my master for the last time.” And he bowed down, tears flowing from his eyes, and he died in that posture. He did not get up again. This is true humanity — humbleness, devotion, love, trust.
    Ma Tzu, visiting his old master, burned incense in front of him as you burn incense before a buddha statue and made bows to Nangaku. Nangaku gave him this gatha, this verse: (Ma Tzu: The Empty Mirror Chapter #3, Date; 18 September 1988 pm in Gautam the Buddha Auditorium)

    “In the West it is very much misunderstood: that people touch the feet of their elders, of their mothers, of their fathers, of their masters. They think it seems to be a little humiliating. It is not.
    If you have loved and if touching the feet of your master is nothing but an expression of your devotion, you will not be humiliated. On the contrary, you will be raised to the highest consciousness you are capable of.
    Anand Masta, you are fortunate, you are blessed. Let this longing grow into a sweet pain. Let it deepen. Don’t be afraid. And you will find that which you have come here to find. In this humbleness, in this loving devotion, you are coming closer to the divine.
    And there is an old, very old saying which seems to be very significant, that if you move one step towards God, he moves one thousand steps towards you.”
    Osho: The Rebellious Spirit, Chapter #26, 23 February 1987

    To conclude I would like to say, that I don’t want to keep harping on devotion, what I want to say is that Osho is not one dimensional vision. so let his multi-dimensional vision unfold in its full glory. Let all types of people be welcome to celebrate. Let there be songs of devotion also with instrumental music.

    “So after my breakfast, for two or three hours I listen to my chosen songs. I know them perhaps more than the people who wrote them and the people who sang them. I am far more acquainted with them because I have heard them thousands of times. Every day I enter a new depth. It is almost a state of deep silence; and because of the silence, my body relaxes and goes to sleep — I am awake. With the body, the words are connected; with me, the meaning. But this too is another experience of juice.

    “Sometimes, very rarely, I listen to instrumental music. Many people have asked me, “If you are not interested in the words, then instrumental music should be more to your liking.” But it is not the case. Instrumental music is beautiful, but because it has no words it has no dimensionality. The words give the song a horizontal dimension which makes it possible to dive vertically. The instrumental music is simple. It is horizontal, but because there are no words, the moment you drop the horizontal dimension you are in a desert without any oasis. It is beautiful, horizontally.
    The songs are beautiful only when you enter the vertical dimension, but that is possible only by creating the polar opposite. The word is the polar opposite of silence. If words are not there, you cannot create silence. The instrumental music is sound, there is no silence. It is sound arranged in a harmonious way but it cannot have that polarity of word and wordlessness.
    Osho: From Personality to Individuality
    Chapter #25

  187. Kranti says:

    It is great to see you back in the forum Swami keerthi.

    The last quote about Music was amazing..I never looked at it from this angle..At some point in time ,,may be when I crossed 30 plus i started listening to only instrumental.. Think i also had become one dimensional..

    Thanks for a beautiful post Swami Keerthi

    Ofcourse whenever Osho says something it always sounds different and deeper..he had his way of communicating surely..Amazing

  188. shantam prem says:

    Every time Swami Keerti enters the discussion area, it brings some solid maturity into it. He is one of those who have seen and lived new moon, full moon and no moon of Osho movement.
    He is the only one from the sannyasins school of elites, who still mingles with the ordinary folks, rest have proven simply “bourgeoisie”: middle class they open their mouth a little bit that too only in paid meditation camps or when one attends their “Mama was beating daddy in my childhood” kind of groups.

    May i request him on behalf of this forum to shed some psychological and political light on the disappearance/demise of the 21 member inner circle.

    Once Anthony was writ ting as if all the other members simply left for their honeymoon, therefore no other way was left for doctor and financier, but to carry the whole work on their shoulders.

  189. keerti has answered perfectly here

    the inner circle is afraid of him
    and have a restraining court order
    not to come within 300 meters of the resort

    this is totally disgusting shameful
    and i object strongly
    against these 21 baboons
    who misuse the courts
    against an innocent lover of osho

    is keerti a terroist ??

    beloved keerti
    firstly i warmly welcome your love and devotion
    as a deeply loved living devotee
    of our beloved master osho

    our love for our master bridges us
    as one in his buddhafield
    and you remain in my heart

    always rajneesh

  190. now….the fourth question

    DEVOTION THE NEW TABOO
    hypnotised amrito’s non-zen ce !!

    amrito is asked…and devotion ?

    he totally skirts the issue of devotion
    with his cryptic curt reply…

    our only interest is to make sure
    that when new people come
    they understood osho’s basic message
    that everyone has to walk themselves
    and osho wasn’t going to do it for them…

    great revelation…and a deeply profound message…

    of course only for the innocent newcomers huh ??!!

    and you are the oldtimer here huh ??!!

    making sure that these newcomers
    understood the basic osho message

    a great self appointed job…
    keep it up oldtimer amrito…

    as if these newcomers could not grasp
    this simple message for themselves
    but required your help
    and expertise of your oldtimer wisdom !!

    and again i ask clearly…
    who gave you this enforcement job
    of making sure
    that newcomers
    understood osho’s basic message ??

    are all newcomers retarded like you ??

    now walk your walk
    and reply to any of my direct simple questions

    as i am an oldtimer devotee…living in the past…
    blissfully and gratefully devoted
    to our beloved master osho

    being a devotee is the most beautiful
    divine and rare experience
    a blessing from the deepest core
    of the masters being

    the ultimate is to be a devotee of a master…
    this declaration dissolves the devotee
    into the feet of the master…
    simply dissolved and dissapeared…pure zen…
    showering the blessings
    of the thousand petaled lotus !!

    osho states three stages of growth

    from the head to the heart to the being
    from a student to a disciple to a devotee

    want to refute this path…this simple truth ??

    so amrito better re-write all of oshos discourses
    and declare himself to be the awakened one

    at the present moment
    he is just a mundane clerk or officer

    and if he would help
    keep the toilets clean in the resort
    the would be the “ greatest blessing “ for him…
    and all around him…
    as an act of true zen proportion

    now amrito…walk you walk…
    out of the gate of our beloved masters
    “ living temple of love “
    this sacred space is for freedom to be oneself
    and for his lovers and devotees
    to celebrate and dance
    and live his dream…live their dream…

    i dare you to enter this lion’s den..rajneesh

  191. beloved dhanyum

    a heart of gold…
    still reaching out to dictators…

    power has gone to their heads….
    divide and rule…is their plot…

    remember my dear friend dhanyum
    in the first place
    they are no one
    to take any steps to reconciliation
    as they have no real authority

    to have banned you
    or directly harmed thousands of lovers

    to even make any reconcilliatary gestures
    they need a clear authority…where is it ??

    question…what is their given mandate…

    they should withdraw retire or walk out
    with an open apology to all sannyasins worldwide
    for their misbehaviour

    a rebel is a rebel is a rebel…rajneesh

  192. MahaDeva says:

    where is this batard now sw amrito …?!

    not showing his f*cking face anywhere,,

    but wanting to have the say over others
    and being in charge of something
    he cannot handle…

    this resort -gang
    is sucking the money out of innocent people
    and stuffing it in their own pockets ..

    thy are not rebelious spirits
    but mundane criminals
    they should be exposed to the media
    and finally being judged by the court of India…

    India and indian sannyasins should wake up from their slumber
    and see what these british colones are doing

    they should remember
    who their Master Osho is.

    . …THE WORLD TEACHER OF THE NEW MILLENIUM..

    and not an puppet being perserved in a samadhi..

    get rid of this cruel western gang
    and their con-men..
    and send them back to hell

    and welcome enlightend alive new masters inside
    to create a paradies on earth
    so more people can come
    and drink from the divine
    and spread all over the world
    like a wildfire…

  193. Krishnananda says:

    Why did OIF “Obey” Osho in parts, slowly, bit-by-bit. First take his mala out, his picture, his name and so on.

    If it was Osho’s wish from the beginning and they were so INTENSLY willing to implement HIS wish, but do it in parts. This clearly indicates some fishiness…

    And why all the offices in Zurich?
    what are your thoughts…?

  194. shantam prem says:

    Rajneesh you mention many times, “these 21 baboons”

    They are not 21 anymore since the beginning of Kalyuga(The dark age).
    How these 21 inner circle members break away from each other, can be a very interesting story, from the research point of view.

    We all know, who took the Sari of Darupadi 5000 years ago, but with the skirt of Ms. Inner Circle….??
    at least what color it was!

  195. Anthony Thompson says:

    Rajneesh You have not answered my question related to the need of using a devotional method with a dead master.

    Osho´s approach was always concerned with his being alive… therefore there was no consistent approach for his not being there
    neither have you or abhay answered in relation to Anando´s answer.

  196. ow…fifth question

    AMRITO WISHES are OSHO WISHES
    amrito i leave you my dream

    on issues of amritos guidlines

    states that we have no master
    what are osho’s wishes in this regard
    we are enough unto ourselves
    we should forget and forgive osho
    and we should not live in the past…

    AMRITO ( as to what are osho’s wishes in this regard )
    so who is living in the past here ??

    AMRITO ( as he has no need of a master )
    so why unnecessarily follow his wishes
    that are past and 20 years old ??
    or perhaps they are present
    as amrito knows his wishes

    AMRITO ( then says osho is alive current )
    so we do not need amrito t
    o keep osho message alive current

    AMRITO ( and we are enough unto ourselves )
    so why do we need the “ help” of amrito
    to understand osho or osho wishes
    are you an inbetween messenger…
    or a pimp amrito ??

    AMRITO ( we should forget and forgive osho )
    so why keep him present and alive…
    and why follow what are his wishes in any regard…

    AMRITO ( but not osho’s proposal )
    and what does he propose today about swine flue ??
    and where are all those proposals
    for the future hidden ??
    and how many centuries have
    these proposals been made for ??
    what will happen to these hidden proposals
    when you die ??
    who will be your successor
    to pass on furthur proposals ??

    AMRITO ( exactly the music osho has asked for )
    really what a good and obedient sannyasin
    always making available the music osho asked for
    and why are you so obedient
    and giving us “ exactly “ what osho asked for ??
    by the way did he mention
    milerapa or prem joshua to you ??

    AMRITO ( not some fixed thing …
    stuck in the past…osho ? the past ? )
    as the current enforcement rules are fixed…
    are they for some fixed time periods ??
    if they are fixed…are they stuck in the past ??
    when are “ past “ and unfixing matters decided ??
    are your rules to be considered
    as stuck in the past
    or current and alive ??
    when will these rules be deemed past ??
    when will amrito be deemed past
    or will you always remain alive
    to lovingly keep things present for us siblings…
    and bestow upon us
    these secret osho proposals ??

    SECRETS OF the SECRET CHAMBERS
    do you have a secretary
    who looks up these past proposals filed
    to keep them as present and current proposals…
    or are you the only one with access
    to this secret propoal chamber ??
    can you manage such vast volumes of proposals
    or are they in a secret red diary ??
    and any copies of them ??
    what would happen if this little red dairy was lost ??
    or on some computer data ??
    and if there is any backup
    incase of a computer crash ??

    have you bequeath and left your last and final will
    incase you pop out suddenly
    and these red diaries are to be found
    in case of sudden emergency ??

    lastly follow your own mantra
    walk your walk
    to forget him and and forgive him…

    amrito yes…you forget him…
    and we will forgive you !!

    and drop the past..become present…
    now you know where the gateless gate is…
    out you go…

    rajneesh

  197. oh oh..sorry keerti
    i missed your point !!!

    cleverly they have removed all the women
    sannyasins from any decision making in the resort.

    Jayesh, Amrito, Pramod, Mukesh – are all men !

    oh oh now here we go again…
    proving truly…history repeats itself….

    the father the son and the holy ghost
    remember…osho’s trinity
    of the three gay guys ??

    ofcourse it had to be so…see ??

    the father the son and the holy ghost
    and the bastard…is finally born !!

    amen

  198. Prem Abhay says:

    and hallelujah.

    Anthony lets have a little perspective. Bhakti like Meditation, is a path that has been around forever. Now you say that Osho encouraged following that path of Bhakti for ten years or so. Then for lets say the next ten years he encouraged following the path of meditation. Based on this I simply do not accept your argument.

    Mukta told me that Osho told her that the place would only last for twenty years. The place, Anthony, is what you are arguing is the dawn of a new humanity: out with bhakti and in with what you call Osho zen. Perhaps Mukta did not here Osho correctly.

    Jayesh and Amrito may well have tried to follow Osho’s secret instructions. I have pointed out that they have failed miserably to make a quality club med(itation). Perhaps Osho new this would happen. Perhaps he set them up to fail because they were anyhow going to ignore all common sense and go down their destructive path.

    By your argument this new ‘club med’ vision should hold sway for at least a few thousand years. I put my money on Jayesh and Amrito’s attempt at being closer to twenty. What you like at the resort is in thousands of places throughout the world. I agree that this has appeal and much benefit for many people, but that is not what is really going on at the Pune resort.

    Anthony your argument about the later years of Osho has one significant problem. If Osho moved away from Bhakti and towards pure meditation (whatever that is), why did he not just stay in isolation and silence like at The Ranch?

    Anthony I hope you read what Keerti wrote about Osho talking about devotion much more recently than you have made out – and in Zen (whatever that is).

    Anthony I suppose my conspiracy theory was too far-out to bother with asking Anando? Of course if she were to agree with me she would be stepping into the fire.

    You want me to respond to Anando’s humouring of Sangeet. Anthony surely you do not expect me to give you an answer. I have stated my position clearly. I already said that Anando countered Neelam’s arguments not because she disagreed with Neelam but because she was either being polite or scared. Of course a third possibility is that she has less involvement with the resort (and is no longer in the Inner-Circle) because she is busy sharing her being with the world. However from my position – that she knows that about the destructive path the resort has taken – this does not make sense because she links “Osho.com” with her website and she also visits the resort. Of course it would make sense if she was a hypocrite. However if she was such a hypocrite than I would not want to attend any of her famous global groups. Her response about Prem Sangeet does not necessarily make Anando a liar, but it does not convince me that she is being entirely truthful.

    Anthony you ask Rajneesh about devotion and dead buddhas. Did you read Keerti’s quote:

    Ma Tzu, visiting his old master, burned incense in front of him as you burn incense before a buddha statue and made bows to Nangaku. Nangaku gave him this gatha, this verse: (Ma Tzu: The Empty Mirror Chapter #3, Date; 18 September 1988 pm in Gautam the Buddha Auditorium).

    It is not explanatory in itself, but it demonstrates Osho acknowledging devotion to dead statues. Why did he not condemn the idea of burning incense before a buddha statue?

    Your argument requires a living Master to feed you energy. It ignores what is already happening in the devotee. You assume that the devotee is indulging in unconscious negative patterns, and that the Master is doing all the work. This seems to me to be a very limited view of a Master – and a devotee. I do not think a Master would reward negative mental patterns. Along the same lines, though the Master is helpful, ultimately what the devotee is doing that brings transformation. Your argument would have it that we could do all sorts of disgusting things yet be transformed – all we need to do is perform them in front of a Master. You do not make much sense to me. It is nice though that you have changed your tune and are now showing some intelligence.

    I have a practical solution to your problem – and funny enough it includes Swami Rajneesh. You argue that Rajneesh has unconscious imitation problems. He argues that his very consciousness is producing an outer effect that appears to be similar to his Master Osho – he of course also says that it is also out of his love for Osho. If you were to meditate beside Swami Rajneesh you would have your answer. Be very in tune to your level of awareness prior to sitting beside him. Sit beside him silently for a time, then leave. Of course I have not asked Swami Rajneesh’s permission for such a meeting. You would have to do that using your own courage.

    Yahoo
    Abhay
    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  199. Anthony asks: “Rajneesh You have not answered my question related to the need of using a devotional method with a dead master.

    Osho´s approach was always concerned with his being alive… therefore there was no consistent approach for his not being there”.

    Osho tells us:
    As far as I am concerned, I am simply making every effort to make you free from everybody — including me — and to just be alone on the path of searching.
    This existence respects a person who dares to be alone in the seeking of truth. Slaves are not respected by existence at all. They do not deserve any respect; they don’t respect themselves, how can they expect existence to be respectful towards them?

    So remember, when I am gone, you are not going to lose anything. Perhaps you may gain something of which you are absolutely unaware.

    Right now I am available to you only embodied, imprisoned in a certain shape and form. When I am gone, where can I go? I will be here in the winds, in the ocean; and if you have loved me, if you have trusted me, you will feel me in a thousand and one ways. In your silent moments you will suddenly feel my presence.

    Once I am unembodied, my consciousness is universal. Right now you have to come to me.
    Then, you will not need to seek and search for me. Wherever you are… your thirst, your love… and you will find me in your very heart, in your very heartbeat.
    Beyond Psychology # Beyond Enlightenment
    Chapter #11, 13 October 1986 pm

  200. Here’s something more for those who wish to see Osho as only one dimensinal master. Osho says:

    This is for the first time that anybody is making one hundred and twelve methods available to his disciples. Buddha had one method, Mahavira had one method, Lao Tzu had one method, Patanjali had one method.

    I am not a man who is linear; I am multi-dimensional.
    Those single methods were enough for self-realization, but if you move through different methods, you will come across different spaces, different wonders, different experiences, different flavors, fragrances.

    But perhaps you may not be able to do all the methods. Then look into the methods and choose ones that you feel have a certain attraction for you. Even if you can manage ten methods, you will be ten times richer than Gautam Buddha!

    I have tried all one hundred and twelve methods. Hence I can say I am both the poorest man on the earth, with not a single cent, and the richest man who has ever existed — because I have seen myself from every possible path. And each path had its own richness, its own music, its own poetry, its own colors.
    I would like you to try as many methods as possible. But whenever you do a method, go to the very end. Don’t start changing from one method to another unless you have reached to the very end.
    From Death to Deathlessness
    Chapter #21

  201. Shantam asks: May i request him on behalf of this forum to shed some psychological and political light on the disappearance/demise of the 21 member inner circle.
    The reply to this could be many pages. What I know about this is that in certain meetings of presidium which I attended in 1990…after Osho left his body…Jayesh and Amrito sideliing Hasya, Kavisha, Yogi..ridiculing Kavisha…Yogi protesting…and finally they all got fed up and they left.
    The strategy of divide and rule. After 5-6 very important people leavve, then some other tactics of getting rid of Tathagat and Neelam, Then some members seeing all this happening, they themselves started leaving, after the millennium celebration, it became only Amrito, Jayesh, Yogendra, Mukesh and 2-3 more hand-picked people who never had own say, were inducted.
    The clerver devise of divide rule did its work. situations were created in such way one by one every person that mattered left. These people who left were in no mood to fight back or waste their energy quareling and do something significant in their own way. Finally there was no Jayantibhai, Satya Vedant, Anando, Devageet and some others. They do come for a few weeks and formally attend some get togethers, parties in months of Dec-Jan. They appreciate what Jayesh Amrito are doing, as they don’t want to be banned, like me. It is convenient for them this way. But publically they don’t criticise, but I am sure they do criticise privately. Public criticism may appear to be harmful, but it is healthy to make the monopolisers a bit aware, but private criticism may not be harmful but it is equally dangerous as it is misguiding. 4 people OIF wish to have only those who would flatter them and not criiticise them. I did raise some of these issues when I was there. But Amrito and Garimo were given the job to change me and not listen to me.

  202. shantam prem says:

    Thanks Swami Keerti,
    By saying in short you have said all. I hope one day you will write in detail in many pages, a complete medical report of systematic slaughter of His inner circle, the body which was suppose to take care the continuity of the work.
    These few people with their rigid good intentions have done immense harm to a new kind of flowering. a complete man in us.

    It is still not to late. I wish to request those seekers who remained silent out of convinience, to do something, if not for Him than for one’s own inner voice.

  203. shantam prem says:

    Systematic destruction of Osho rainbow is, one of the worst white caller crime of our time.

    On one side it is a blessing in disguise. hundred thousand eye witnesses are still alive. Just few testimonies are enough to nail the vested interests.
    Phoenix can rise again from the ashes of the past.

  204. friend says:

    Beloved Amrito, you are best……love and warm hugs

  205. Prem Abhay says:

    Anthony did you notice how Keerti has a similar viewpoint to me about Anando (and others) – of course he is a little more polite than me.

    Swami Rajneesh said something that makes a strong impression on me. Jayesh and Amrito rely on their secret wish-list to maintain there hold on power – after forcing everyone else out. Yet as Anthony has been so nice to point out, the vision is essentially the practice of awareness with limited and specific supports. Amrito refers to this as people walking their own walk, without clinging on to the past.

    Jayesh and Amrito and the current Inner-Circle have fooled the Osho sannyas community for too long. They are (apparently) referring to a secret wish list that obviously cannot evolve with the changing world. The Osho movement is at the mercy of some unknown static wish-list.

    What the Inner-Circle should be doing is to keep Osho’s ‘ashes’ static, and adapt how they are presented to a changing world. For example how can his words best be presented to the diverse and changing interest groups; rather than how can we change his words to achieve ‘success’ apparently in accordance to a static and secret wish-list.

    What about if the limited ground water around the resort means that the many swimming pools and gardens and lawns that are coming cannot draw water? What do we do then? I know that swimming pools will be there in the new vision. But how will that work if there is no water to put in them? Perhaps we can just pretend that water is there.

    Jayesh and Amrito have in mind a wish-list that contains static practical amenities and a narrow slice of Osho’s spiritualism. I am surprised it has taken this long for the place to implode.

    In enforcing the secret vision Amrito and Jayesh are themselves breaking its fundamental principal: they are not ‘walking their own walk’, and are clinging on to the past. Everyone else is reminded at the entrance to be aware and if you are into Osho just go to the discourse. Presumably the idea is to listen to the discourse with awareness and then apply your new understanding to your life.

    What are Jayesh and Amrito listening to? They have a wish-list that can theoretically be one of two types: either it is a wish for practical things like an enclosed auditorium with water around it; or it can be a wish relating to a subtlety of Osho’s spiritualism.

    There is an attempt by Jayesh and Amrito to carry out the first wish literally and to the letter. The problem with this is that it will just be up to chance whether or not the practical requests fit this rapidly changing world. To really carry out a collection of practical wishes is to be in tune with the subtle dynamics of the changing world we live in, and adapt accordingly. What this means is that the practical wishes cannot by definition be anything other than general indications or pointers. So we have it that broad practical wishes are actually not particularly important. What is really important is how to pragmatically apply intelligence to the world we now live in and will inhabit into the future. What this means is that a practical wish list actually has no significant meaning. Of course it may have been appropriate for perhaps a year or two, but after that it makes no sense to try and apply static and specific wishes. So Jayesh and Amrito’s practical wish list is by now devoid of any meaning. Who cares if it is secret if what is written on it is out of date.

    Of course Jayesh and Amrito have what I have identified as the second category of wishes: to do with gaining insight into Osho’s spiritualism; applying his vision; the big picture guru type stuff. No they do not!!! Unfortunately there is no traction here. Osho clearly stated that the Inner-Circle was to have no spiritual guidance role. The Inner-Circle was to only operate as a practical managerial body. Part of Osho’s final message was that Anando was his medium. If there is any spiritual role as prescribed by Osho I would assume that it would have something to do with Anando. He also created a second circle of close disciples. What role does this collective play? Are they secretly carrying out Osho’s spiritual wish list?

    From the above analysis we have it that Jayesh and Amrito’s secret and practical wish list – that cannot contain a spiritual interpretation role – is by now well and truly obsolete. This contributes to the statement that they have lost their authority to hold onto the power of the Inner-Circle. A further contributing factor is as follows. Osho gave 21 people a role in the original Inner-Circle. It matters not if most of them have not gone along with Jayesh and Amrito’s plan and are now scattered throughout the world. There plan (Jayesh and Amrito’s) was only applicable for a few years anyhow. Jayesh can no longer say that Osho said to build this or that, and then use this as an excuse to hold onto power. Practical wishes are out of date. Spiritual wishes are made up by Jayesh and Amrito to further their case for Inner-Circle take-over.

    What we have is that the other original members of the Inner-Circle have as much right to engage in their mandated practical function. There are no longer any practical wishes to strictly apply. Osho did not enshrine a method of renewal of people in the Inner-Circle. It was left to consensus. Jayesh and Amrito, in removing more and more original members and installing people supportive of there stance, meant that the consensus model shifted to directive style. This means that the replacement of Inner-Circle members became a methodology not in accordance with Osho’s instruction for consensus style decision making. The Inner-Circle can therefore no longer be said to be an authentic and credible Osho Inner-Circle.

    With the wish-list now devoid of any meaning or practical relevance, and with the supposed Inner-Circle no longer authentic, the only option remaining is to turn to the original Inner-Circle members for guidance. Though I would like to suggest that Jayesh and Amrito and any other current members that were part of the original Inner-Circle have been discredited and should be impeached, others may disagree. In any case the other original members should be asked to again take responsibility for their mandate of care-taking Osho’s practical affairs. Remember that there can no longer be any relevant wishes – secret or not. The Osho movement in terms of the mundane is up to these people. They should resume their responsibility. One suggestion I would like to make is to create a clear and transparent framework for the functioning of the Inner-Circle within guidelines that protect and preserve Osho’s legacy, and to also clearly prescribe the process of selection of new members to it.

    Yahoo
    Abhay
    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  206. Alok john says:

    Dhanyam wrote to Amrito:

    “I was happily surprised to see your posting.

    I find it very helpful to see your reply and point of view….

    …I look forward to your encouraging, positive reply.”

    Businesslike, demanding, manipulative, power-hungry?

  207. Alok john says:

    Keerti,
    Thanks for the great improvement downloading discourses at oshoworld.

    Devotion….I love it, but it may feel very odd to a newcomer of 24 years of age, to sing devotional songs about a master who is not in the body. Pune probably responds to demand, and found that a zen emphasis appeals more to newcomers.

    It is not true that people are only encouraged to listen to discourses at pune. They are also encouraged to do the standard active meditations and do groups. Surely the program for newcomers is still good. And us old-timers can find our own way.

  208. Hi Alok
    To a 24 year old person, everything may look odd–the maroon robes, white robes in the evening, shouting three times Osho in WRB. Those 24 year old ones were coming before 2000 also–in larger number than today. When we become too unsure and shaken within ourselves, we give the same vibe to the others. We start becoming too concerned about what others might think about us.

    In 1983, I was in UK–Medina commune for a year. Medina had a Body Shop selling sports wear, sports shoes etc, and keeping Osho books videos, television etc in the cellar–just not to be direct about who we were and what was the purpose of the shop. Some kind of inner trembling what people rationalise as safety…etc

    One day I was sent to London to man this shop as the person who was working there daily was sick. For 2-3 days the shop was under my supervision. You know what I did? I brought Osho stuff out of the hiding, and displayed it in the front window. I started showing Osho books to anybody walking in the shop and when somebody showed interest in the books, I would explain what was in those books. That day the sale of books and tapes was 90 percent and ten percent of clothes. I informed Poonam with joy. She said: But Sweetheart, we make money on clothes and other stuff.

    I told her: the whole of London is selling this stuff, and people can buy in anywhere, but we are not here only for that. We wear our orange clothes and Mala ( as all sannyasins were doing it that time) and are afraid to sell Osho books. We seem to lack confidence or we are too worried what others would think about us. We are the disciples of the most rebellious master and we are afraid to express our love for him. We are conveyimg this way that either there’s something wrong with our master or with us.

    So we want to look very modern, regular guys etc–we are simply hiding our new identity of being Osho disciples with this fear what would others say about us.

    Just imagine, Buddha happened and if his disciples would have been as afraid as we have become, the message of Buddha would not have reached all over east, far east. And the message of Buddha is still throbbing today in Zen and in other forms, the current is still alive, because Mahakashyap, Sariputta, Bodhidharma, and others were fearless. And you know that even in that time Brahmins were against Buddha, some buddhists were being burnt alive. But again these people were real disciples, not the spinesless people who want to rationalise everything to hide behind there fear–how they will be judged by the young generation. They also start behaving like juveniles just to show to the younger generation that they are in harmony with it. They grow in age but never grow up. So one Indian woman nearing 70 years of age who conducts camps in India was wearing jeans and not robes in the camps, just to please the so-called modern Western bosses in Pune. It was really ridiculous. A meditator would have some grace in his behaviour and outfit also–imitating 24 years girl would be ridiculous.

  209. Anthony Thompson says:

    well. lets see. To assume that anando is lying because she is scared is or polite is simply confusing facts with imagination. That is your imagination abhay. why don´t you ask Anando directly as i did?

    BESIDES i THINK IT IS OFFENSIVE TOWARDS HER.

    Regardinmg osho quotes., if we get evangelical, I can get you hundreds of quotes from osho telling his sannyasins to disperse after his death, to move to other masters to forget all about sannyas and also quotes about how he is against people worshiping him and against surrender.

    So how do you choose? which osho is right, abhay?

    This is a core issue, because we have quotes for everything.

    On may 19 1989 the message came he wanted a health club instead of ashram. he wanted a club med, a joke between meditation and meditarrane.

    HE WANTED THAT. IT IS RECORDED AND i CAN GET YOU THE FULL ARCHIVE..

    Now, these are facts…yours is just imagination.

    I personally stated my opinion on devotion to a dead master.

  210. I do admire what and how Amrito articulates, but in his one-dimensional articulation he becomes another fanatic, giving not a space of an inch to accomodate the other’s viewpoint.

    You ask him something and his answer will take not less than 90 minutes. I still enjoyed hearing him, like I enjoyed hearing Swami Yoga Chinmaya.

    And both are very serious people in their own way. You would not be able to argue with them.
    There are others also who are so forceful and articulate, but too fixed. I enjoy listening to them, but later I have a good laugh.
    Here’s what Amrito concluded in one of his articles available on net:

    What Is an Osho?
    By: Prem Amrito MD

    “Leaving everything we need to become self-sufficient meditators, including that “healing sound.” We only have to arrange the Sony Walkman. But of course, if anyone fancies a spell at primary school, there are plenty to choose from.”

    Enjoy the whole piece on the following URL
    http://www.tabaan.de/oshowhat.htm

  211. Anthony Thompson says:

    I want to tell you a couple of personal experiences with the changes in pune.

    Before 2000 I worked several times in the welcome center. due to this job i got to meet everybody who came to the place and saw them afterward in the campus.

    Many of these people left freaked out with the adoration and fanaticism they saw towards Osho ( pictures, songs etc.).

    I remember one of these people explaining why she was leaving she said that she was attracted to osho because through his books she saw that he was an “iconoclast and was against all the religious bullshit and his work was for freedom of the individual”.
    But now she had the impression that was true concerning other traditions or gurus but he did not apply that about himself. So she left disappointed.

    In 2001 i went to pune with a colleague who was a professor of linguistics. an intellectual who had no experience with meditation or anything like that. he had a beautiful experience, did some groups and meditations. He told me that the reason he opened up and enjoyed the place was because no one was trying to shovel osho down his throat. But the focus was the personal process. he read osho wand was fascinated. If pictures would have been all around, and all the atmosphere of devotional stuff he would have left for sure. But instead he was able to see himself., to learn meditation and to start a growth process, precisely because he saw no sign of fanaticism.

  212. Kranti says:

    Tottaly agree Alok..this is eactly wha I feel

    ” Devotion….I love it, but it may feel very odd to a newcomer of 24 years of age, to sing devotional songs about a master who is not in the body. Pune probably responds to demand, and found that a zen emphasis appeals more to newcomers.

    It is not true that people are only encouraged to listen to discourses at pune. They are also encouraged to do the standard active meditations and do groups. Surely the program for newcomers is still good. And us old-timers can find our own way”

    Infact if you really look closer Swami Keerthi’s quote of Osho.. My understanding is thats what Osho wanted to have

    ” Osho tells us:
    As far as I am concerned, I am simply making every effort to make you free from everybody — including me — and to just be alone on the path of searching.”

    Thats why i seems He told about the kind of place He wanted .. A RESORT..It was very clear in His message

    Ofcourse He also talked about people having a FREEDOM there..

    May be instead of accepting the place as a RESORT as exactly as Osho wanted but asking for more freedom and less controls is the WAY OUT instead of asking we need to go back to the past

  213. Kranti says:

    Swami Keerthi..

    Please let us know your thoughts on Osho vision of having a resort type of place only

    If Osho wanted a Resort type of place where individuals will have total freedom to neditate and dance and sing Is that not what we should be demanding?

  214. Kranti says:

    I have one request to everyone here

    LET US STOP calling Jayesh & Amrito using all kinds of abusive language ..It is not going to take us anywhere..

    If there are idealogical differences that can be sorted out.

    But we are dividing enlarging the gap more by calling everyone as criminals , muderers and thugs

    Whe He left Osho left a dream for highly concious sannyasins who can LIVE life fully & beautifully ..not people who keep vomitting on others..

    I share similar view as Anthony.. If the place is changed more a guru worshipping style no one will come .. In due course we will have one more religious place..

  215. Kranti says:

    Correction

    ” May be accepting the place as a RESORT as exactly as Osho wanted but asking for more freedom and less controls is the WAY OUT instead of asking we need to go back to the past… “

  216. Kranti says:

    From the link Keerthi posted

    i loved this part

    ” And finally he announced he was dropping all his names, he would be nameless. The publications department responsible for publishing Osho’s books, already close to apoplexy trying to redesign the book covers with every name change, finally gave up.

    After lots of complaints from people who desperately wanted him to have at least some name, he agreed to Osho, from a word created by William James, “oceanic.” But only if we all agreed. Now what was going on? Was he pulling our legs again? Was he just helping us see the minds endless need for labels? Who could tell?

    Osho is Osho..We just can not understand him by just Quoting what He said in certain context.. He simple went along with us giving an impression that He is agreeing on something and later to put us in deeper trouble..

    What a MASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  217. Anthony Thompson says:

    Kranti, for your information .
    On may 19 1989 Amrito, Anando and NEELAM conveyed the message from osho.
    The exact quote is as it follows:
    “ And also he has been talking alot lately about his vision for what he calls expansion of the ashram. What he sees is that we create here the biggest health club in the world. A kind of club med., spiritual Club Med, as in meditation.”

    (…) ! There is going to be a heath club, beauty club, a spa, gymnasium, medical center, discos and restaurants.”

    all this was published in the Osho times Volume II number 11, june 16, 1989

  218. Kranti says:

    Amazing!

    ” … And much later, Osho returns to this same theme, with another fascinating talk where he clearly states that 2,500 years after Buddha, the master disciple relationship will be “irrelevant.” He then goes on to say, “It is exactly twenty-five centuries after Buddha’s death…. Don’t let me down….”

    We are letting us down everytime we insist on going back to the past

  219. Kranti says:

    Correction again

    ” We are letting Osho down everytime we insist on going back to the past “

  220. Kranti says:

    Thanks Anthony

    Infact there is similar Quote in recent Oshotimes..

    I posted the same earlier.. I really would like Swami Keerthi to respond to this particular quote of Osho..

    ” “This place here has gone far beyond being a commune. The commune was an alternative society I have dropped the idea of a commune too.

    “Now I want this place just to be a paradise — a holiday resort where you can relax, have a massage…soon there will be swimming pools, larger gardens and lawns. You can play on your instruments whenever you want, at whatever time you want. You can do your own thing.

    “This is not a commune, this is simply a gathering of all kinds of misfit people who cannot fit anywhere else. Here they can celebrate their misfitness without losing respect and honor and dignity.

    “This place has to leave in you a memory of sheer enjoyment, of silence and beauty. And people who are non-interfering with you, are happy in your happiness. Nobody is jealous, nobody is competitive. Nobody is even comparing.

    “But it all depends on you. I have created the space here. Now how you use it, is up to you.”

    Osho, The Hidden Splendor, #21 “

  221. Hi Kranthi
    You have a very good enquiry.
    Before leaving the body, Osho had given the name for the new guest house that was to be built. The name was displayed at the welcome center in his own writing. You know what it was called? DHARAMSHALA–A Resting Place for the Seeker on path!
    This was the meaning given by Osho himself. Osho lovers donated money for this new guest house as they were encouraged, to fulfil the wish of the Master. Dharamshala is a very traditional name–Hindus, Buddhists, Jainas have all used it. OIF used it collect donations and contributions. Now do you see this spiritual name anywhere. We saw it in Osho’s own writing.
    Now I show you the quote in its context, with the question:

    BELOVED OSHO,
    AS ANOTHER OF YOUR COMMUNES TAKES OFF THE GROUND, I STRONGLY DEVELOP SYMPTOMS OF A MISFIT. INDIA, AND EVEN A COMMUNE, JUST DOES NOT SEEM TO BE THE PLACE WHERE I FEEL COMFORTABLE. IS THERE SUCH A STATE AS “DOING YOUR OWN THING, CONTENT AND FULL OF GRATITUDE” THAT IS NOT JUST AN EGO TRIP?

    Prem Leeladhar, I myself am an unfit. And this place here has gone far beyond being a commune. The commune was an alternative society. But it has its own organization, its own rules, regulations. Seeing that for misfits it will be difficult to be part of even a commune, I have dropped the idea of a commune too.
    Here, now only individuals are living together. Nobody here is expected to be a permanent resident; whenever he feels, he can be here and whenever he feels, he can move. We are trying to give every misfit all the space that is possible. One of my sannyasins — Veeresh, in Europe — is creating “Rajneesh Misfit Cities.”

    I think you have carried the idea from the American commune. It must have been difficult for you there, because whenever thousands of people live together, they have to follow certain rules. Otherwise it will become impossible to live.

    Here there is no permanent residentship. As long as you feel good, you can be here. The moment you feel uncomfortable, the whole world is available to you; wherever you want, you can go and be comfortable. But I want to remind you: if you cannot feel comfortable here, you cannot feel comfortable anywhere else either.

    I will read your question. “As another of your communes takes off the ground…” That is not right. No commune is taking off the ground. I have tried hard and found it impossible… if the commune has to exist, the individual has to compromise. That’s absolutely natural and necessary. And I am so much in favor of the misfit people, that rather than dropping the misfits, I have dropped the idea of the commune itself. Now there are only misfit people here.

    The misfit people obviously understand each other’s needs. The need is just to be yourself, and doing your own thing. That’s why we are not developing any kind of productive activity here. Neither roads have to be made, nor houses have to be made. Because if you have to make roads and you have to make houses and you have to do farming, and you have to have milk products of your own, then naturally a certain organization becomes necessary.

    Leeladhar is a plastic surgeon. Here we are not going to have even a medical center. There was in the old days before the American commune happened, a medical center, but that needs organization.
    Now I want this place just to be a paradise — a holiday resort where you can relax, have a massage… soon there will be swimming pools, larger gardens and lawns. You can play on your instruments whenever you want, at whatever time you want. You can do your own thing.

    Just remember that your thing should not be an interference in somebody else’s life structure, because he also wants to be independent, just as you do. That is the only agreement: that everybody is free to the limit that he does not interfere with anybody else. This much of a limit is absolutely necessary.

    ( Please read the whole discourse given on 23 March 1987 am in Chuang Tzu Auditorium)

    There’s a beautiful story of Ramakrishna worshipping Kali…and many more things. The debate between Keshav Chandra (Mind approach )and Ramakrishna, a devotee. I wud like Thompsons and others to read the following also, as it is the same dicourse. I wud alos like that some 24 year old person also reads it.

    All the followers of Ramakrishna were very much afraid, afraid because they knew that Ramakrishna knows nothing, no scripture; he makes his own songs that he sings in the temple. He is uneducated, he has never heard anything about logic, philosophy. It is not a question of mind to him.

    They were afraid: “It will be very embarrassing to us all, because Keshav Chandra can defeat Ramakrishna within seconds.”

    And Keshav Chandra came with his own disciples. He had his own society, and he was a very egoistic man. Ramakrishna jumped up from where he was sitting under a tree, hugged Keshav Chandra, and said, “I am feeling so happy that you also have come to me.”
    Keshav Chandra said, “I have come here to defeat you.”

    Ramakrishna said, “It does not matter whether you defeat me or I defeat you. From this moment our love will remain. You start defeating — I am ready.”
    Keshav Chandra said, “Start defeating? First you have to propose your philosophy.”

    Ramakrishna said, “I don’t know anything about philosophy. You will have to do both things yourself — propose my philosophy and defeat it.”

    Instead of Ramakrishna looking embarrassed, Keshav Chandra started looking embarrassed — where have I come? But something had to be done, so he said, “Okay, do you believe in God?”

    So Ramakrishna said, “Believe? I know him. Why should I believe? Only ignorant people believe.” Now what to do with this man? A belief can be criticized, but the man says he knows!

    Still, Keshav Chandra made great arguments against God; he said “It is all hallucination, illusion, imagination, that you think you know God.” And each time he would make a good argument Ramakrishna would stand up and hug him again and say, “You are so beautiful, Keshav Chandra; I love the way you talk, although it does not change anything. In fact, your intelligence is a proof to me that God exists, because your intelligence is derived from existence. It cannot come from nowhere, and all that we mean by God is that the universe is intelligent. I am a poor fellow, uneducated. I am not a proof for God, but you are.”

    The authority and the authenticity and the sincerity… for the first time in his life, Keshav Chandra felt defeated, although the man has not argued. He touched the feet of Ramakrishna and said, “Accept me also as your disciple. Seeing you, seeing your behavior, seeing your joy, is enough to prove that dry arguments are not going to transform me. But you are a transformed man. Most probably you are right and I am wrong. I can prove myself right — but to prove oneself right is one thing, and to be right is another thing. Your presence is the argument.”

    This country has accepted and loved all kinds of unfit people, and if you feel that India is making you uncomfortable, you have to be here a little longer to feel the atmosphere.

    I have been around the world. No country has such a groovy atmosphere. They are scientifically developed, technologically very progressive. They are rich, they are educated. This country is poor, hungry, with no science, no technology. But this country has a certain vibe which has been created by thousands of mystics.
    You need to be here, Leeladhar, for a little longer, so that you can start feeling the subtle vibe.

    My experience is… in America we created the commune, but in the American atmosphere the commune was, as a whole, out of place. There was no supporting nourishment as far as atmosphere is concerned. And then I moved around the world. I have been talking in every country, and the strangest fact is that I was talking with my own sannyasins, with whom I talk here, but something was missing. I was there, my people were there, but in the air, something was missing.

    Back to India, the same people… but nothing is missing. A subtle juice surrounds, a certain noosphere, a very deep and ancient flavor of mysticism, an inner richness. Communication is easier.

    To adapt to the Indian atmosphere it takes a little time, and perhaps that also is making you uncomfortable. It is just as if you are coming from a desert into a garden. It will take a little time to feel the greenness, to feel the fragrance of the flowers. The contrast is so big.
    And you have been brought up in the West. Your whole make-up is that of a scientist, and this country knows nothing of science. This is the most unscientific country in the world. But it is the most religious, mystic, heartful land. It has its own juice. Give it a chance.
    Certainly you are not a bigger misfit than I am.
    In India I feel at ease. The Western tension is not there; neither is the Western speed.

  222. Alok john says:

    Keerti, I agree Amrito’s article from ’98 is not a great piece of writing. Maybe Amrito has evolved a bit.

    But I mean even the master/disciple relationship was a bit of a misnomer. I mean he was only a master to people who actually spoke to him, Amrito, Anando, some others, people who asked him for advice in Pune 1 darshans.

    I never spoke to him in person. So I had to decide about which meditation to do, if any, which parts of his discourses applied to me, which therapists to listen to and which to ignore etc etc. Same applied to most people.

    And if one person says the disembodied master is available now, and another person says it is only his energy that is available now, is this not just words?

  223. Kranti says:

    Swami Keerthi

    Thanks for giving the context..But yo have just mentioned the difference in name althiugh it has significance ” DHARAMSHALA–A Resting Place for the Seeker on path! ”

    Instead of calling it ‘ DHARAMSHALA ‘ Pune calls it a ‘ RESORT ‘ Even that word is used by Osho only

    I hope you are not ony reffering to the name but the way Osho wanted the place to be a DHARAMSHALA or a RESORt whatever it may be

    In Osho words this place is meant for all misfit people ..But there will not be common idealogy or path like devotion or Zen whatever it is..there will not be a collective following

    Now if this not what is happening in PUNE except for may be missing of little bit balance ..may PUNe tilted towards being Zennish but certainly they have created a system / place for individuals.. When I go there i see a freedom to do what I want.. I can meditate or dance in Bhuddha Grove or simpley sit doing nothing.. I am not forced by anyone to do anything specifically Is it not in accordance with what Osho wanted

    Now you may say people dont have freedom to sing or play an instrument or there are some form of restrictions. But Osho clearly says whatever the individual says can not be something which disturbs others..

    So the space is there..By and large Freedom is there..Misfit people can go there and be what they are

    BUT.. if we want the place to be something like what it used to be PUNE 1 then it seems to be not according to what Osho wanted..

    Please let us know what you think is missing in PUNE not idealogical things but things needed for an individual ?

  224. Kranti says:

    Alok john

    just to ad..Osho even said the master-disciple relationship seems to exist only from the view of disciple..because on other side there s no one to be a master..Only absense is theer ..You can not have a relationship with an absense…

    So even someone was closer to Osho and thought they are His disciples and Osho is their master it is not fully true..It is a kind self created misconception by the disciples..

    So this whole talk of My Master , My Master is just a concept inside disciples and it has no real existence outside disciple’s mind

  225. My Beloved Alok
    Everything is just words–we give meanings to them.
    Meditation is a word. Devotion is a word. Today Zen is popular, and Sufi, which is quite opposite to Zen, is also very popular. Some will keep arguing while some others–though very few–will do their journey–with meditation or devotion, intellect or intuition, mind or heart. Every thing is relevant and at the same irrelavant. It all depends on us.

  226. Kranti says:

    Even it seems cancellation of all the festivals is in accordance with this Osho concept of Dharamashala – A Resting place for misfit individuals.. Because festivals create idealogy again..

  227. Alok john says:

    I also remember an article of Amrito’s from about ’91 when India embraced markets and dropped socialism. Amrito said it would be a disaster. He was wrong wasn’t he? I mean India has had massive economic success since then–at least that is what I read in the papers.

  228. Anthony Thompson says:

    Keerti. You have not answered kranti´s question regarding if osho did not want a resort kind of place instead of a temple.ashram. i supplied a the quote.
    2nd. My understanding is that osho said that he wanted a dharamsala, a resting place for seekers, not that the name of the hotel should be dharamsala.

  229. Kranti says:

    Amrito was not an economist Aloke..

    I will tell you one more interesting thing

    As we embrace markets and west’s ay of living people started celebrating Valentine day..But all the fundamentalist group took offence and they srated beating up men and women sitting in beaches and parks.. So mcuh for Individual respect and dignity..

    Major part of India still resising develpments.. Ofcourse developments and globalization comes with other cultural changes..Now girls hand out in bars and drink beer..Number of women colegues in my company go out and smoke

    The govertment does not do anything to prevent it..They have even political parties with single idealogy of destroying these new developments

    When someone drops nationalistic ideas and embrace global outlook then will drop celebrating a local festival and start celebrating a new year which is refelction of global outlook I dont see anything wrong

    Osho never had nationalistic approaches irrespective what he says in certain contexts.. He was truly Global oR shall we say truly Cosmic?

    So trying to adopt a specific approach because India had been following it for ages is not a great idea..it is a refelction of conflict inside and our refusal to go forward..

    India also had been following Pathi Bhakti..Devotion for husband.. You must be aware how a women is burnt forcefullywhen husband dies.. can we call that as devotion path and start following?

    90% of Indian concepts are cuel and complex and criminal

  230. Beloved Kranthi
    I don’t know what is mising in Resort in Pune. I have not gone there for last nine years, as I am not allowed.
    what I hear from people who go there, they say these days only 150 to 250 people are there, and in the season time, Dec to Feb, 500 people. Earlier any given time there were 2-3 thousands. Celebrating Dancing Singing Rejoicing together. It was not disturbing anyone except some neighbours some time. Sometimes Dhyanesh and I wud go together to pacify disturbed neighbours.
    In Poona 2 also when Osho was in the body, there was every day singing happening until the last day and for 10 years afterwards–and it was all devotional.
    I don’t say that this should be happening today. I am not lamenting about it. What I wish to convey is don’t make the place one dimensional–have all the colours of rainbow. Otherwise it becomes very serious. What Amrito and Co. are doing is Krishnmurtifying Osho. Osho is not J. Krishnamurti–one track. Osho is vast and multi-dimensional, fully at ease with all the contradictions.
    He loves to tell the a story in the life of Buddha, when at 3 times in one day , people ask Buddha: Does God exist? And Buddha says to one -No. To another he says: Yes. And to the 3rd he says nothing, just closes his eyes and remains silent.
    Osho has said so may opposite things in different contexts, and he did not choose or support any one path only. That’s the whole picture, wider picture.

  231. Kranti says:

    Yes Swami Keerthi.. I see what you are saying

    When i said Pune must have lost a bit of balance i meant that only..so i really see a need for balance ..to make the place more juicy now it may look a bit dry..

    But reduction in number of people coming there can not be the result of change in Idealogy or because the place is no longer like PUNE1

    Infact all the old timers getting really old and fresh round of Osho lovers are on the rise.. But these people have not come to the stage where they will take pain to come to PUNE and start dancing.. Most of the people live in internet age.. they listen to Osho through internet and may be go to a nearby Mediattion center..

    Do we say it is because PUNE has changed..I am not sure.. It seems to be because of change of tme..

    And it increasingly seems difficult to conceive of a place like PUNE1 and even more difficult to see a Osho coming along.. Every where i see Neo-Advaita

    I fully understand your pain and how the place need to be massive energy field with all kinds of people dancing and celebrating

    So what you propse if you feel there is a possibility of creating the place like that again.. What changes that can be brougt also keeping in mind how Osho wanted the place to be

    One thing i feel is we can drop Osho;s idea altogether and what He said.. We can recreate a sort of commune where there will always be a collective energy

    To me it looks like Osho kept His people in mind and the growth phase they were in..not exactly new cpmers who may need more collective energy

    I am perfectly alright with contradicting Osho and recreating a commune

    Please let us know what you think about it..

  232. Kranti says:

    When i said ‘ The govertment does not do anything to prevent it ” i meant govertment do nothing to stop the violence

  233. Kranti says:

    One thing i totally agree with Swami Keerthi is banning.. The moment you ban you trying to stop misfit people..people who misfit with your rules..So banning is certainly against this Osho idea of resort for misfit people..

  234. Anthony Thompson says:

    A correction to you Keerthi. I was last year and the previous one at the resort and the numbers i estimate should be around 2500.
    The exact count down it is not known , but I can tell you, because a friend was in charge of counting shoes at the auditorium. Kundalini was between 300 and 450. white robe was between 1200 to 2080.

  235. Hi Thompson
    Osho did want Resort and this is clear in his discourse in 1987. And 2 years later, Osho did wish the new Guest House to be called Dharmshala. I know some Indian friends who donated big amount of money for that in nineties. And the name of the new guest house was displayed in Osho’s writing at the welcome centre, so that Osho lovers contribute for this project. And when the project was ready after some part of the property sold to Godrej industrialists, the “Dharamshala” was dropped, and it was simply called The Guest House. Osho did not talk about any hotel, he simply said Dharamshala–A Resting Place for the Seekers on Path.
    Osho gave a beautiful fresh meaning to the word Dharamshala. This word had been used by all Indian religions for ten thousand years.
    “Dharam” more or less means “Religious” or “holy,” and the “shala” part indicates place. Sufis call such places Sarai. But Dharamshala is more meaningful–Osho made it even more meaningful. Amrito might not remeber this Osho wish.

  236. Anthony Thompson says:

    Sw. keerti. Ido not mean to contradict you. But my research shows that osho spoke of a dharmsala, certainly, but as a generic term. Not as a name. In the same way that the word ashram is used. i do not remember him saying that the name of the guest house will be dharmsala. actually he did not give a name. He usually gave names related to other masters to the buildings in the ashram. even the late ones as the pyramids. It would be strange a building not named after a master and using a generic name.

  237. shantam prem says:

    Anthony, i must appreciate your presence in this forum as without you nobody will put forward the views of the other side with such articulacy.

    Other side, any way don’t need to communicate directly. they are not answerable to anybody, just like the feudal Lords, “when i have the tractor, land belongs to me. Never forget you are only growing crops on the land, but land belongs to me”

    Just remembered the face of those few long term residents of the ashram. Most of them have purchased rooms, now in their mid sixties, boasting about their long term connection with Osho before few new comers,
    and one can see the aura of lecherousness in their being as if Osho, the middle class Indian created the harem for them
    Osho must have borrowed few rupees from them in one of His life.

  238. Thompson
    This shows you have not done your research deeply. I don’t need to do this research as I was there as part of it–one of trustees of OIF. I don’t remeber to have seen you.
    It was meant to be Dharmshala–A resting place for the seekers on path. In words and spirit both. Same as Osho himself gave the words for Samadhi:
    Never Born Never Died……
    You seem to have done a very immature or superfluous research or only just one dimensional, as is Amrito’s approach.

  239. Kranti says:

    Sorry to intrude in Keerthi – Anthony sharing

    You know about me.. I am bit repeatative like parrot..

    But Swami Keerthi

    What is Dharamshala in spirit? Apart from name what should be there?

    When you say Osho should not be made Jk like and he should be Rainbow like what do we mean?

    1) no banning and chossing one type people.. I totally agree
    2)
    3)
    4)

    Shantam / Anthony Can you also fill up

    may be this can become a agenda for the metting that is going to ake place before January celebration..Who knows?

  240. Anthony Thompson says:

    Keerti. certainly i was not there. I am a researcher, that is all.
    What i have as an information is what i said to you. Therefore i raise my doubts on your statements. can you tell me through whom was this message delivered. because that will make my findings easier to corroborate or deny. So, from whom did you hear that the name of the guest house will be dharmsala?

    and by the way. I do not get information from amrito…

  241. shantam prem says:

    Keerti Swami,

    Discussion can go on for ever about the democracy in North Korea. Other than the great leader himself and his cronies, whole world becomes curious when the leader coughs, because sometime only the hands of time can change the situation though we know, great leader has already choosen his kid as a succesor. Still, this kid may not be able to stand like a cemented wall..

    For me this resort at 17, Koregaon Park is an extension of the system which runs North Korea..

    Now the question is how long it will run like this. Generation after genaration.??’

    and secondly, the people who want to dethrow the regime for a better and more humane system and with broader interptation of His vision, what options they have got?

    Let us go the solutions now. ….

    Those who want to support the present day status have their right to defend too.

    May be something like this is written in Upnishids,” Let my opponents be strong and live long. But victory in the end will go only to the TRUTH.”

  242. Alok john says:

    I agree with Kranti that the times have changed and this is at least one reason why Pune has changed.

    In my opinion western young people are just not in the desperate state as so many western baby boomers were, so there is less need for a bhakti approach.

  243. Kranti says:

    Yes Aloke.. And the massive inflow of sannyasins we saw was a direct result of discontent and rebellion of 1960s & 70s

    If Osho had started the work later may be now I am not sure whether the same infow of peopel would have been there.. Ofcourse as Osho says existence decides the timing

  244. Dear Swami Keerti

    Wonderful to see your views here. You need to be actively participating in this important debate. As you are a senior and mature Sannyasin.

    What is your opinion on Rajneesh and his devotion to our Master Osho and his sincerity on the answers he has given?

    What do you feel about his action to make the Samadhi open to all Banned Sannyasins. I feel, It is the right of every devotee and lover to express their gratitude in this Sacred Samadhi?

    It seems that Rajneesh has raised many relevant questions to Dr Amrito who is not able to face his bold questions and is afraid to come on this forum.

    At least you have the decency to come openly on this forum and I thank you for that.

    Waiting your intelligent reply.

    love
    amitabh

  245. shantam prem says:

    Kranti
    Everybody who has read or listen Osho carefully, will realise that once seekers from west started coming, He was sharing the spiritual heritage of His land with compassion and abundance.
    Being a man with vision, an awakened one, He spoke with same carefree attitude about the dark, lazy, sleepy and corrupt India the way He spoke about the spiritual dryness in the west.

    Osho was sharing poetry with those who came from the background of prose.
    Many of His people from the west got the points and feel gratitude..Music of Milarepa, and Deva premal Mitan, represent that west.
    Interestingly enough these musicians play all around the globe in Osho centres too.(Few still exist). otherwise in any public performance, sannyasins share their presence.
    It is only in Pune, we see the draught situation.

    in my understanding, Osho used the word “Dharamshala”, the way it is suppose to be. Resting place for seekers of truth.
    Dharamshala is neither a back packer hostel nor it is a guest house.
    Practically all the facilities look the same, but than husband wife/ lover and beloved, call girl and callboy also look the same.

    difference is in the intention.

    Those who think business tour and pilgrimage is the same thing are also free to have their opinion.
    the way few say active meditation are the same as gymnastic in the health club.

    Gays and straight are also the same. Both can have their immense fun, but as per my understanding, Gays are unable to allow nature to produce babies( Sorry, Bubbie, if i hurt your feelings).

    In simple terms, resort and ashram both have front gate and back gate. These two gates are the same in both the systems, part of everyday vocabulary.

    But the resort is an institution where only back door is prefer ed. ( Swami Amitabh, please feel free to see sex in my brain).

    People like me are saying, Why not both!

    This is what Osho is. motivating us to have the cake and eat it too. Why to be miser!

  246. shantam prem says:

    so there is less need for a bhakti approach.

    I wonder when Bhaki was the main theme around Osho.

    Why people cannot see that being the creator of One and only Wall Mart of spiritual products, Osho accomodated every approach on the shelves.

    It is a people’s freedom to choose what they want..
    It is so simple….
    If Kirtan Music gives you head ache, go drink a coffee, smoke a cigratte, take a rickshaw with your or someone else girl friend for MG Road and come back for Kundalini!

  247. shantam prem says:

    At least you have the decency to come openly on this forum and I thank you for that.

    Waiting your intelligent reply.

    love
    amitabh

    Amitabh dear, come down on the ground.. You are getting too high because of Rajneesh. A borrowed kick stays not to long…

    You have written to Keerti,Waiting your intelligent reply.

    can you tell, which of his reply was not an intelligent reply!¨

  248. Kranti says:

    Shantam..Good post

    Swami Keerthi agreed He has not visited PUNE for 9 years and not aware what is missing.. I am awaiting his reply to my question on what he wants to see in a Dharamshala ‘ in spirit ‘ and as well as his reply to Amitabh

  249. Kranti says:

    Shantam One thing we need to understand though is it is not possible to recreate a PUNE 1 or PUNE 2 for two reasons

    1. Master is not there
    2. Times have changed

    So we can only talk about what chnages we want to see for the existing sannyas community?

  250. meera says:

    my observation is
    that RAJNEESH
    hat the same charisma as OSHO::
    transferring the light to people
    so they become truly
    ecstatic
    blissfull
    and silent
    and that is all
    what is needed to make a quantum leap in consciousness..

    Rajneesh should lead the white robe at the resort
    and get permanent residency
    beause of him
    many good people will gather
    and create a network for communities
    all over the world
    who support each other..
    a great foundation
    where everyone joins ONE pool of energy…

    right now
    sannyasins are divided and struggeling alone..
    ::then there will be an overwhelming togetherness
    as we already experineced it with Osho …..

    we are here to transform ourselfs
    and help others
    to make the quantumleap in consciousness
    so that this world
    can become a paradies..

    we need RAJNEESH
    who resembles our master
    to be a catalysator for worldwide seekers …

    let him fight the courtcase against AMRITO
    and get his right to enter SAMMADHI:::
    if he was not a true rebel
    he would refrain
    like all the otheres who got banned
    and keep quiet
    inspite of the cruel acts
    of those people
    who behave like the former british colonels in India

  251. Anthony Thompson says:

    Yea right. rajneesh did you write the last post under the name meera? remember we can check the IP numbers.
    Let me have a good laugh:
    “Rajneesh should lead the white robe at the resort
    and get permanent residency
    beause of him
    many good people will gather”

    ha, ha. Rajneeshi… this is yourself!!

  252. OSHO GUIDELINES
    the tommorow that never came !!!

    amrito announcement in the buddhahall
    19 january 1990
    “ anando is preparing a full account
    of osho’s guidlines
    on the workings of this group and who is in it…
    it will be available for all to read tommorow “

    I FEEL THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE IS WHERE ARE THE OSHO GUIDELINES PROMISED BY AMRITO???

    AS AMRITO DECLARED ON OSHO DEATH ANNOUNCEMENT IT IS HORRIBLE AND SHOCKING THAT THE WHOLE WORLD OF SANNYASINS ARE NOT DEMANDING THESE OSHO GUIDELINES

    TIME HAS COME TO OPEN THIS AS NEW TOPIC FOR DEBATE

    love
    amitabh

  253. meera says:

    hahahaa mr simphson

    rajneesh
    is not the only person in the world
    who is with OSHO:::

    and who are you?????

    some unknown freak who has no idea who OSHO is…..!

    we need more GOOD people
    who are with OSHO

    otherwise we are heading for
    a GLOBAL SUICIDE
    instead of
    a GOLDEN FUTURE

    already enough IDIOTS everywhere

  254. meera says:

    ONCE YOU HAVE BECOME ENLIGHTENED, it is not that every day you have to remember that you are enlightened; that every morning, shaving before the mirror, you have to remember that you are enlightened; or going to the market, you have to remember not to behave against enlightenment.

    Once you have become enlightened YOUR EVERY ACT IS AUTOMATICALLY OF AWARENESS, OF CONSCIOUSNESS. Soon you forget all about enlightenment because it has become your very body, your very bones, your very blood, your marrow — it has become your very being. Now there is no need to remember it.

    THERE HAVE BEEN MASTERS WHO HAVE FORGOTTEN COMPLETELY THAT THEY ARE ENLIGHTENED — because there is no need to remember it. Their masters have hit them on their heads. The Zen stick came into existence for very certain purposes. One of the purposes was that somebody who has become enlightened and is still sitting silently has to be hit to be made aware, “Now go away! Get on! Pick up your rented bicycle! What are you doing here?”

    Enlightenment does not happen twice — once is enough. THE MASTER HITS AS A REWARD, to remind you that, “Now there is no need to be near me.”

    There are beautiful stories…
    MAHAKASHYAPA BECAME ENLIGHTENED, and he would not even come near Buddha. He used to sit far away under a tree. For years he had been meditating there. He became enlightened … now he was afraid to come close to Buddha because he would recognize.

    Buddha himself had to walk towards Mahakashyapa and say, “Mahakashyapa, don’t try to deceive me. Now there is no need to sit under this tree. Get on and move! There are millions of people who are still groping in darkness, and you are sitting here enlightened. TAKE THIS FIRE OF YOUR ENLIGHTENMENT AND MAKE AS MANY PEOPLE AFLAME AS POSSIBLE!”

    MAHAKASHYAPA HAD TEARS IN HIS EYES. He said, “I have been hiding. Who told you? I knew that now this difficulty has happened… I am enlightened, and I cannot go near to you. I want to touch your feet, but I touch your feet just from far away under the tree — I make the gesture of touching your feet. Because I know, once you are enlightened you will be sent away.”

    ANOTHER DISCIPLE OF GAUTAM BUDDHA, SARIPUTTA, made it a condition. When he took initiation, he was already a well-known, very famous scholar of his times. He made it a condition that, “If by chance I become enlightened, please don’t send me away. I WANT TO REMAIN ALWAYS BY YOUR SIDE. If enlightenment means that I will have to go away, I will not become enlightened. So it is up to you.”

    Buddha said, “Don’t be worried. First become enlightened, then we will see.”
    He said, “No, I want it as a promise. ENLIGHTENMENT IS CERTAIN BY YOUR SIDE. And if you don’t give me a promise, you will be the barrier to my enlightenment.”
    Buddha said, “You are putting me into difficulty. If everybody starts saying that, ‘Don’t send us away,’ how I am going to manage?” — already ten thousand sannyasins were moving with him from one village to another village.
    He said, “Sariputta, you are such a great scholar, you should understand the responsibility. BECAUSE ENLIGHTENMENT IS NOT ONLY ENLIGHTENMENT, it is also a great responsibility. You have come to realize the ultimate peace, the joy, the blissfulness.” NOW IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SHARE IT, go as far away as possible. Now there is no point in sitting by the side of the Master….

    I HAVE EXPLAINED TO YOU WHAT TRANSMISSION IS: it is not through words, it is through the presence. It is being close — in trust, in love — that something jumps from the Master’s inner being and makes you aflame. It is a quantum leap of consciousness.

    IT IS ALMOST LIKE TWO CANDLES: ONE IS LIT, ANOTHER IS UNLIT. If you bring both the candles closer, there will come a moment when the flame of the lit candle will take a jump — you can see the jump — and the unlit candle also becomes lit. And the lit candle does not lose anything. The unlit candle was carrying the possibility, the potentiality; just it needed an opportunity. The Master is the opportunity.

    OSHO
    Dogen, the Zen Master: A Search and a Fulfillment
    Ch #1: To study the way… to forget the self…

  255. beloved friends on sannyasnews
    and all sannyasins worldwide

    during the past 11 months
    i have travelled to over 42 cities worldwide
    where i have been warmly welcomed by osho lovers

    i remain deeply grateful to all
    who arranged and invited me and have met me
    during these osho meditation camps and events

    i do not deserve so much love
    and have received so much more in return…
    as i am only sharing
    what my beloved master osho
    has compassionately poured into me

    i am simply expressing my deep gratitude
    towards my master osho
    in these ecstatic events that are happening

    after extensive travel the past 11 months to 42 cities
    which is an exhausting one city per week…
    this is the first month i have some time for myself…
    just resting in a forest by a river in the himalayas

    strangely i was gifted a new laptop
    by my dutch friends as mine crashed in russia
    i discover sannyasnews had placed
    the samadhi court issue on this forum…
    and here i am caught posting views for the first time

    i wish to thank all of you who have
    loved criticised hated ridiculed or judged me
    as freedom of expression comes first

    i want to thank sannyasnews
    for offering this open forum with diverse views
    and for keeping it free
    and allowing freedom of expression for all

    sannyasnews is exhibiting more maturity
    acceptance and freedom to express openly
    than unfortunalely those who carry the greatest treasure and message for our humanity of freedom
    and of osho’s enlightened vision…

    thank you all…
    anthony bubbie oshobob heraclitus shantamprem premabhay amitabh kranti alokjohn frank anuragh satya dhyanum meera keerti pavitro krishnananda
    amrito and the inner circle and all silent readers
    for participating in these vital discussions

    it has been a great learning curve for me
    as the real world and living situations are my teachers
    and keep me alert to generate more awareness
    and enhance my ablity to respond moment to moment

    hence you are all instrumental for my growth

    i am preparing for coming
    meditation camps and events…
    which will take all attention for the next 3 months…
    hence adios my friends…

    with gratitude and thanks
    i leave your sannyasnews forum

    but i’ll be back !!! ….rajneesh

  256. Kranti says:

    Meera

    ” beause of him
    many good people will gather”

    They will need lot of courage because Rajneesh seems to be a cutting edge Zen master.. he has very sharp sword

  257. shantam prem says:

    We can look in this way too. What Bush could not get in 8 years, Obama has got in 9 months-

    “Obama accepts Nobel Peace Prize, feels ‘humbled’ by the honour”.

    Both Bush and Obama share one common thing. Theie belief in Christianty. But one can see, how two people used their presidency in such a contrastful way.
    One was imposing his power over the world, another has a finger in people’s pulse.

    Unfortunately, resort presidency is very close to Bush era.
    Weapons of mass destruction and Osho’s secret guidelines…

    American are still lucky. Their Bush can stay maximum 4 plus 4 years.
    Bush of Osho’s world are like royal people. Once for ever.
    It is time for change for us too.

  258. Anthony Thompson says:

    oh. dear… how i miss Frank., This place has become a gathering of fanatics.

    I am out of here…

  259. Shanti says:

    I am sad that Anthony Thompson is leaving this forum.
    He may not have a devotional attitude. But he has been an Osho devotee (even if he denies it) defending and fighting for OUR master is numerous forums. He is the only one who has had the courage to face and refute Christopher Calder´s vicious lies about our beloved Osho.
    Quite unlike Swami Rajneesh who has used Osho for his own self aggrandizement. Saying he is a devotee but in reality profiting from osho´s name and legacy.Disgusting
    Mr. Rajneesh you are an embarrassment to the whole sannyas community. I do not feel represented by the way you live your sannyas. Not having the courage to be your very self. And instead becoming a third rate version of MY master.
    Those of us who had the luck to seat at his feet and be blessed by his presence will never pay attention to you. You can only fool people who never sat at Osho´s feet and feel attracted to the coincidence of names.

    My pledge is for freedom, as sannyasins, to be what we are and accept ourselves as our master did, no matter what we felt of believed. Sannyas has always been a loose gathering of rebellious individuals. It is not about the Resort, or the Samadhi, Or the podium. It is about our growth, development, meditation and love.
    Yes, it is about our awareness too. The world is big enough to contain all the small versions created by this gathering of individuals.
    Let us all gather with what we feel more in tune, weather it is the resort or Sedona, or The Humaniversity, or anywhere else.
    Let us remove the middle men. The new priests who want to suck from our sannyas blood, like Sw. Rajneesh. Let us stand alone in the crowd… as Osho always asked us to stand.
    Blessings
    Shanti

  260. frank says:

    me too,tony.
    i had no idea how many religious nutters osho had attracted.
    just leave them to live out their jerusalem,ayodhya,pune style fantasies.
    arguing and fighting about who are the righteous….what the prophet really said….and where the holy temple should be.

    eedyats…

    “life`s a laugh and death`s a joke its true
    you`ll see its all a show
    keep `em laughing as you go
    just remember thats the last laugh`s on you.”

    — thus spake frankythustra

  261. Beloved Friends
    I am too busy now to continue on this forum and discussion, as I am travelling today to Malaysia for camps for 2 weeks. I may join in after 2-3 weeks.
    Love to you

  262. shantam prem says:

    No Anthony, you must stay here my brother.

    This place is a virtual but more or less real ashram.

    In spite of differences of opinion and paths, we are part of a wild forest.

    This is what i feel, Osho always visualised. A complete human encyclopedia, a chemist shop with all the medicines, cosmetics and Condoms!

    It will take still few hundred years for competitors to add the last item mentioned above…

  263. shantam prem says:

    Anthony, If you don’t change your opinion and you leave this forum, i wish to express my heartily and tearful sorry for that highly stupid and ugly remark of Rajneesh dragging your girl friend in, which by chance i have read it too, and now i think why it took few days to feel the pinch.

    It seems to learn to rationalise one’s own childish acts, we have also learn quite thou roughly from Osho.

    I hope before going for his camp, Rajneesh realises his mistake in that comment and convey sorry.

    Because His people can sure sell condoms in their ashram kiosks but a product called SORRY does not exist… Rajneesh bring it IN.

  264. shantam prem says:

    Let us remove the middle men. The new priests who want to suck from our sannyas blood, like Sw. Rajneesh. Let us stand alone in the crowd… as Osho always asked us to stand.

    Beloved Shanti,

    This can be a once in a life time crusade to remove the neo priests from the just few decades ago started work of Osho.

    In this process the people who top the list and embodies and codifies the spirit of neo priesthood and poltical and financial clout are-
    Amrito
    Jayesh

    These repectful brothers of us have a complete 100% right to live their version, as you say-
    The world is big enough to contain all the small versions created by this gathering of individuals.

    BUT POONA should remain open for all the versions.
    Sannyas has always been a loose gathering of rebellious individuals…and they were meeting merging, loving, and seprating quite nicely with each other in and around 17, Koregaon Park, Poona.

    Who will ever forget this sentence and the laughter from us, when He mentioned something like,” MY PEOPLE ARE THE MOST MISFIT PEOPLE IN THE WORLD; BUT THEY FIT WIHT EACH OTHER QUITE WELL”

  265. Kranti says:

    Good post Shanti

    I also expressed similar view

    If we all have to be greatful for one guy.. It is Anthony

    He had the guts and facts to refute Calder and restore Osho’s image..

    I still remember reading Calders article and feeling disturbed for long time..

    After reading Anthonys reply my heart relaxed

    All these Rajneeshes did not have the guts to speak against calder like people and write a book against him..they speak asthough they know all the facts

    Like the way he wrote a book on what he went thru he should have used his sharpness and sword to stand up againt calder

    Instead he was speaking so much against a innocent Osho lover like Anthony

    I have not seen someone who is as honest as Anthony

    Anthony..I request you and apologize on behalf of others..Please stay back.. Frank you too please stay..You guys have made the forum a balanced one..

  266. meera says:

    shantam prem and co.

    you fit so much…. so
    that you are all against one person.: Rajneesh

    your hate shows how much fit you are…

    you are like the common disgusting followers of Jesus who wanted Jesus to be hanged
    instead of the criminal

    you consciousness shows
    that you are involved with outward matters ..
    as you resort leaders are

    you are still puffed up Ego-maniacs
    with no possibilities to undergo a
    transformational process..
    since there is no more
    ´mystery shool´
    just a barren disco-place wit all kinds of
    idiotic psychotheraphie

    most of you have no clue about osho and his vision..

    so what is the point discussing here…?!

    hardly anyone is here
    from this million of sannyasins

    none is interested….

    rajneesh was able to have a vital discussion here

    so you can imagine how many peole he can attract live…

    and we need these people who are young and open..

    to change this world

    which is on the verge
    of becoming destroyed by idiots

    we all can make the vertical uplift
    and become
    enlightenend fulfilled human beings

    instead of dragging ourselfes
    from the cradle to the grave

  267. Kranti says:

    Meera

    We are not against anyone.. Infact we are not against Rajneesh as a person . We only spoke against what he said ..few things which we didnt expect from someone like Rajnessh who is suppoed to be a awakened man.. We couldnt digest what he said and the manner in which he went on the rampage and later on all the justifications

    Just blindly speaking against Pune and keep saying we love Osho do not make one a sannyasin.. Osho asked us to be rebels..not reactionaries..What everyone is doing is reaction against pune..not responding to the situation

    What is the point of keep calling people in pune by all the bad language like criminals , frauds and thugs etc just because they have different interpretaion of Osho vision. Why all the people who call themselves are not able to see it as just difference of approach..

    When Osho spoke so harshly against all established traditions how did we accept? Now why we are not able to see pune as people who are in tremondous love with Osho but having a different approach ? why we keep spitting on them

    Blind devotion to Osho will not help..That blind devotion is resulting in blind hatred..

    Accept or not.. Osho was a rebel to the core and he never would have allowed his sannyasins to hang on to past and physical structures.. People who ask for such things dont understand Osho ..

  268. Kranti says:

    Like what Amrito Osho was alive current.. a wild river flowing .. He is not in anyway concerned with physical structures and dead concepts..He is not even concerned with his samadhi… If He can comunicate to us now , He will ask us to take His ashes and threw it in the air and forget all about it…. He will be the last on earth to allow his sannyasins to hang on to things like that…

  269. Kranti says:

    “…….. The whole past of humanity is full of stupid ideologies for which people have been crusading, killing, murdering, burning living people. In the last three thousand years we have fought five thousand wars, as if life is all about fighting and not at all about being creative, not at all about enjoying the gifts of nature.

    We have to drop all this insanity.

    We cannot change anything in this world unless we cut these roots completely.

    The most important need of humanity today is to be made aware that its past has betrayed it; that there is no point in continuing the past — it will be suicidal — and that a new humanity is absolutely and urgently needed…..”

    Osho

  270. meera says:

    dearest kranti

    first of all you should never have expectations
    of how a Master SHOULD BE..
    he is not here to fullfill your expectaitons
    he is here to hammer your stonedhead…
    only cunning priests and politicians
    want to fulfill your expectations..
    at least they claim to work for your expectations
    so they get your vote
    and money to sack into their own pockets
    and destroy the world
    because of more greed

    same thing is happening in Poona..
    these crooks are sacking the money
    and with this money enjoying trips to
    5 star resorts all over the world..
    keeping 5 star suitlodges permanently rented in Dheli and Mumbay
    whenever they wanna take of to the airport..

    same as priests bishops kardinals popes and politicians
    these are the CRIMINALS on this PLANET

    You are not a rebel ..
    but a white sheep
    who is trained to believe in authorities..

    Osho´s whole work was to hammer on these structures.

    people in charge in Poona have no love
    only LUST
    and WILL TO POWER

    they are all conditioned by the past..
    none of them has gone
    through a transformational process..
    they are blinded by money and power,,,
    like all mundane greedy politicians..

  271. meera says:

    Osho designed his Samadhi
    very carfully
    not for himself
    but for US .
    . to get a glimpse of the supernatural

    this Samadhi
    is an extraordinary place
    which you cannot find anywhere in the world..

    it is a POWERPOINT
    where you can collect all your scattered energies
    and feel
    in a mysterious way
    as an integrated whole BEING

    OSHO is a Mystic ..

    not a mundane Bishop
    who wants people to worship at his grave

    THE SAMADHI IS MADE
    FOR US
    AND NOBODY ELSE

    crooks like Amrito
    should not have the power over it…

    he should be sent out from India
    and not allowed ever to come back..
    enough of british commonwealth
    greedy killers..

  272. Kranti says:

    ” they are all conditioned by the past..
    none of them has gone
    through a transformational process..”

    On what basis you are saying this.. is this not a big judgemnent ? Jsut because they have different interpretation? Why should you call them cooks and all..

    And infact those are the guys who spent all theri personal money for Osho and left everthing including their country to be with Osho..How many Indians have done that? Let us not be so blind Meera

    you say ” first of all you should never have expectations
    of how a Master SHOULD BE..
    he is not here to fullfill your expectaitons
    he is here to hammer your stonedhead… ”

    Funnily people in Pune also say the same thing..

    And if you really look deep who/which side has expectations it will be easier to understand ..

    Have we not seen what happened to even Buddha..see how people are worshipping buddha statues.. How many people who worship Buddha have become awakened? Do we want similar thing happen to Osho also.. he did so much to deconstruct his own image to avoid people creating a religion and samadhi based devotion..

  273. Kranti says:

    ” You are not a rebel ..
    but a white sheep
    who is trained to believe in authorities..”

    No thats where you are wrongly interpreting..We dont have any concerns with authorities. We are interested in Osho vision.. A vision which is not realted to hanglng on to the past.. Poeple who support a Osho vision which is discontinous with the past seem to be following authorities.. But it is just a misconception.. Infact Oune is the only place where they dont project themselves

    Show me a single group which has put Osho and Hios vision infront and where no one is aware who is the running the place .. Every other group is interested in projecting themselves be it Osho dhara or Rajnessh

    I am not including Swami Keerthi and Swami Arun here..they are true Osho lovers..Like Pune they have their interpretaion of Osho.. If Pune is wrong in having their interpretaion then they are also wrong ..

  274. Anthony Thompson says:

    On a final note…
    There was a time when we were the seven samurais.
    Seven people from different parts of the world, with different visions who dicussed, argued and responded to each other´s ideas.

    Frank was there, with his delightful humor; Andreas Roth, the best enemy I have had;Kranti whom at first we thought was a girl; Santam prem, from his two euro-per hour, pouring great arguments, Oshobob, an Americanized version of frank; Canadian Amrito, and his witty full raps; Alok John, and his sober post Oxford arguments… and Heraclitus, former Pune one guard.

    All through that time, no matter what we called ourselves, we argued, we never dismissed anyone as infidel, or not having seen the light and, certainly we never dragged any sexual remarks about anyone´ s girlfriends.

    Neither Andreas or me was never dismissed for not being a sannyasin. We never asked any requirements, except good arguments, for expressing our views.

    We argued… that was the beauty. We did not call each other names.

    Now only kranti and Shantam are left of that group.

    Trying to talk to rajneesh and his followers is like talking to pentecostal evangelicals… There is simply no base for discussion.

    I think Osho is one of the most beautiful and intelligent human beings I ever met. I think those of us who were touched by him will never forget what we learned from Him.

    But with sadness I see how what he wanted most to destroy:… a religious, symbol oriented spirituality is being settled, but now in his name.

    Thank you guys for it all… it has been a beautiful ride… But I simply do not feel like discussing with people who say:
    “his Samadhi
    is an extraordinary place
    which you cannot find anywhere in the world..

    it is a POWERPOINT
    where you can collect all your scattered energies
    and feel
    in a mysterious way
    as an integrated whole BEING ”

    This my friends is “Star wars”, the movie, not Osho.
    enough for me.

  275. Atmo says:

    So peaceful Anthony

    “There is simply no base for discussion.”

    Its so sad, because his thirst to discuss was so great that he has three times repeated

    “we have the big baboon speaking, the impersonator, the one who profits from his master´s image, the one who considers himself the chosen one…”

    in a previous thread

    Such reasonable and strong arguments, it is very a pity to me Фтерщтн has not found the worthy opponent with whom could discuss them

  276. Kranti says:

    Enough for me also .. I am tired ( But I do have this habit of not resisting the temptation to jump in when a new thread comes..But without these seven ( nine ) samurais the forum will never be the same..

  277. Kranti says:

    Yes Atmo!

    Think chopping off body parts is more healthier form of discussion..

    Calling everyone criminals , thugs , crooks and frauds and f…s is more healtheir form of discussion

    Asking for throwing people out as a poltical attempt is more healthier form of discussion

    Asking a stupid goverment and prime minister to help a Osho cause is highly concious form of discussion

    Obiviously when such healty discussions take place it is difficult to find worthier opponent to discuss

    Thanks guys..

  278. Shanti says:

    Good by Anthony, Good by Frank, Good by Kranti.
    Yes, it was a beautiful ride to read you all.
    Atmo, now we will have the stream of Russian sannyasins who never saw osho in person to come and defend Rajneesh…”the big baboon , the impersonator”.
    It makes me wanna go back to my legal name if i am going to be associated with this kind of cultist behavior.
    Rajneesh is a disgrace to us all. and only a new sannyasin can buy is imitation strategy.
    I think it is time for me to go too.
    See you all…
    Shanti

  279. Atmo says:

    No Kranti!
    I dont compare, Rajneesh said what he said but he has thanked to all, leaving a branch, and did not complain that here is nobody to discuss, he’s happy and im happy for him, but Anthony looking so sad and I just wanted to support him

  280. Kranti says:

    I am really Sorry Atmo.. I didnt understand rightly

    Anyway this is my sharing for you and everyone

    Just a Fresh breeze


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  281. Atmo says:

    Shanti
    You are right, but dont stop
    we had the stream of sannyasins who never saw Buddah in person to come and defend Osho. This is problems for all the times.

    But I dont defend rajneesh, sorry, i see no danger for him from you, in opposite i defend you. You must to find your own disgrace, dont use him for it

    and stop to be serious you all, who for or against rajneesh

  282. oshobob says:

    Jeezus, looks like everyone’s packin’ up, throwing in the towel, goin’ home. Get the tissue boxes out, folks, it’s a sad scene for sure. A real tearjerker. My, my, my….

    Rajneesh is going to do some vertical energy stuff with some groups of out-of-work Ruskies (whom he pays off with enough rubles for their vodka money), Anthony seems weary of the battle (this has happened before, if I remember rightly), Keerti is off to Malaysia for a working holiday (don’t forget the Osho CD Rom for when you need the appropriate Osho quote), frank says I’m outa here — “me too” but of course bows out with a witty limerick (that’s his style), Kranti threatens to stop writing (though every time he’s done this before, he comes back the next day with 10-11 posts), even Shanti the newcomer who lays down one post says enough of this….my, my, my…what next? Will the two ‘Par’s’ — Parmartha and Paritosh (sadly deceased, i read it in the papers) board up the house and move to Byron Bay with the other sannyasin expats…will Shantam get a job on Comedy Central doing skits packed with his sexual innuendos…will Amrito come out of the closet and admit that he’s really not a certified doctor after all, simply a horse vet from Wales…?

    Stay tuned folks — “the plays the thing” — we may have to call in Willie Shakepeare for a proper denouement to wrap this all up….or maybe even Osho himself…yeah right, that’s the ticket, bring back Big Daddy to restore order in the house for all the quarelling children who have nowhere to go….

    Or everyone could just go to Pune for the January 19 20th anniversery at the Samadhi — the “Big Bash with the Ash! — 2010″ That would be really something to “witness”…

    let’s see, frank, uh…we could rent some cages, and….

  283. We have forgotten the main central question that Rajneesh has raised

    We have have entered into a debate of the right or wrong approach of the inner circle

    Rajneesh is asking and saying clearly that the Mandate given by Osho is not to interfere into any spiritual matters and that the inner circle is not a club to discuss philosophy or decide the direction of Osho vision.

    Please see the Mandate of Osho and know that they are overstepping their real authority and it is therefore very clear that the inner circle is wrong. Even a child can understand this and needs to debate about this simple and obvious matter.

    Inner circlce do not have the right to give a zen or bhakti or sufi or tao or tantra approach and all should be left as it is for the sannyasins to be free to experiment and deceide the path suiting then individually and out of their own choice and freedom.

    Am I clear – first come the clarity on the given mandate which is tthe main issue Rajneesh has clearly raised.

    love
    amitabh

  284. shantam prem says:

    Beloved ones
    please go through the below mail again for fun sake

    meera // Oct 10, 2009 at 10:08 am

    Look at the writing style, choice of words and paragraphing.
    I am curious to know who this Meera is.
    Is she the sister/mother/ girl friend of Harri Om.
    Is she the alter ego of rajneesh ?

    Can we see your photo, sweety?

  285. shantam prem says:

    I have expressed in one of the previous mail that Rajneesh may have become a star attraction of Osho’s world, for sure, he is one of Osho’s rebel.

    but when he communicate with His class mates, can his puppies/disciples/ friends/followers/Russians remain silent.

    It is a mtter of protocol.

  286. shantam prem says:

    And the way, i see the public mood from the posts of last few hours, i think someone from Rajneesh school must create
    http://www.rajneeshnews.com/org/in/ru

  287. shantam prem says:

    Anthony, few hours before, you have remembered the nostalgic past months, can you put some light, why Andreas is not writting any more in this forum.
    Andreas, if you read this, you can let us know also about your absence. See, the evoltuion of last 40 years from Acharya Rajneesh to Swami Rajneesh!

    I have even forgotten our common master was with double “ee” or just “i”

  288. Masala Dosha says:

    A Secret OSHO gave me in his lifetime…
    Loud People aew working loudly…
    Silent People are working silently….
    Compassion………..
    Masala..

  289. Prem Abhay says:

    Swami Rajneesh and Keerti may have gone, but I am here to at least point out that the samurais just got shredded. Of course after the battle was had the victors went home and then the samurais picked themselves up and claimed victory. At least they sooked a little and admitted they have been touched up. Just look at the psychologist Anthony crying for attention: I’m going, I’m hurt, I’m leaving…please give me the attention I crave. This is all pitiful. Even Shantam has yet to work out the Rajneesh joke that brought in Anthony’s girl-friend was about intelligent debate not sex. The proof of the battle cannot be hidden.

    Thanks Swami Amitabh for bringing a little perspective. You should however give the so-called samurais a little time to rebuild their battered egos.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  290. shantam prem says:

    Abhay, may be we are all on different stages of evolution.
    For example, while turning the pages of Times of India at inernet shop at the ashram, i read a quotation 2 years ago and it was hammer,” Trust those who are searching. Doubt, who have found it.”

    On the other side there are millions in the world, who are looking for someone who has found “it”, and may be they have the capacity to pass it further like cough bacteria or Aids virus or swine flu or Enlightenment syndrom.

    Thnaks to Osho, millions also have come to the point, where they feel, nobody can give it further. Spiritual business is just a peep show!

    Yet the issues people are discussing so openly about the 17, koregaon PArk are and will remain valid as long as basic honesty and ethical rule is not restored.

  291. Prem Abhay says:

    Shantam you say trust those who are searching and doubt those who have found it.

    What you trust in those that are searching is not what they say for they cannot share what they have not found. They can share their experience and have the authenticity of knowing where they are on the path. More than this you cannot trust in them.

    You say doubt those who have found. If you did not doubt those who found you will not walk the path you are on. Your doubting brings you to your own knowing and then you will be able to say whether or not your doubt was the truth or not.

    People like Anthony and Kranti trust Amrito and others, yet what is the basis for their trust? People like Andreas doubt Osho yet was is the basis for their doubt?

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  292. shantam prem says:

    ANthony and Kranti,
    what you say about the summarisation in last post of Amitabh?
    It is not about this person and that.
    It is a very basic question of human values of trust, honetsy, mandate.
    When we are going to implement the teachings in our day to day life of running an organisation in His name?

    Are we still in that time, when it was, ” Who has the stick, will have the cow.”

    And also the very important post from Keerti-
    Swami Chaitanya Keerti // Oct 9, 2009 at 2:38 am
    did not get enough attention.
    It is a nice document from someone, who has seen, lived and was part of the insider group.

    The demise of inner cricle, the 20 long term meditatotrs, group leaders, well educated, and finacially sound bunch of people hand picked by Osho that too , when he was in His last days; end up not in the speaking terms- This is a matter of research.

  293. Kranti says:

    Shantam

    Oshobob was expecting me to come back next day woth 10 posts.. Since you addressed me the question I wanted to post this about Amitabh post

    Amitabh said

    ” Inner circlce do not have the right to give a zen or bhakti or sufi or tao or tantra approach and all should be left as it is for the sannyasins to be free to experiment and deceide the path suiting then individually and out of their own choice and freedom. ”

    When you read this first up it seems very meaningfull..

    But it is actually fishing on the surface

    I am not saying it has no truth. It does have to the extent we want to see a certain balance

    But If you really look deeper Osho talked about all these approaches only to make us understand the essence of all teachings.. Osho himself did not have any such path

    We Love Osho for What he is ..Not because he talked about Zen or Devotion or Tantra.. If someone likes Tantra and he likes Osho because Osho talked about it then it is not true love for Osho.. He has to step out of liking / disliking one approach and take only the essence which is always always awareness..

    Let us ask ourselves what Osho wanted from a sannyasin

    Awareness
    Meditativeness
    Celebrating life

    Thats it..

    Do we have space for this in PUNE?.. seems to be YES

    While our actual living is not inside PUNE it is outside where we are.. As far as PUNE is concerned as long as it is providing space for awareness , meditation and dancing they are not doing anything against Osho

    But at the same time i aslo understand what you mean in spirit ..You want to see a more balanced space interms of few things allowed / not allowed and more freedom for all kinds of people. For example if someone wants to have Osho bhajan he should have it inside PUNE..

    Thats why i always asking people what they want to see aprt from briging back buddha hall

    It will help us all understand what we want rather than fighting for different approches

    Keerthi also said Pune should be multidimensional and Osho can not be Krishnamoorthified.. I respect his views but is that really true..? Dowe see krishnamoorthification in Pune.. I dont think so.. Jk did not alllow one method leave alone all the things that ar avilable in pune

    What we have in pune be it Dynamic meditation , vipassna , dancing , tai chi , therapies , death celebrations , sannyas celebrations and zennis , achery etc etc.. you name it we have it.. Is that what Krishnamoorthy wanted .. Is that what we have in a Krishnamoorthy kind of place?

    The problem is not that Pune does not have..It is one of people not seeing what they have and only focusing on few things they dont have from the eyes of the past …

    I still accept things like banning shold not happen..everyone should be allowed even if they are enlightened as long as they come there as a sannysin not as master with their own set of disciples.. It creates utter confusion..

    Shantam.. The problem had never been one of allowing diffirent approaches. It is just two or three things like banning , Osho bhajans etc.

    Ofcourse i wish to add this is from my understading.. If someone can list out what is missing ( aprt from physical structures ) they we wil understand better

    Thanks.. May be Shantam you can list out these in a new thread.. But it needs to be really Oshotic not from our mind..

  294. shantam prem says:

    Thanks Kranti,

    On the surface everything looks fine, as every lie hides behind the masks of truth.

    The people like me who are complaining and writing critically about the managers, have no vested interests in that place or any other place or some other person.

    For example, i will meet in the coming days a sannyas couple( Swiss-indian). They were coming to Pune since 1992-2002 regularly. Working hard, saving money for Pune. Years flew by like months. Soul has the motivation to go somewhere for some higher purpose.

    They don’t come to the ashram any more, nor they feel attracted to some other place or guru in the market.

    They have the money, they have the time, they have the willingness, they have the fire and thirst. They listen Osho regularly and meditate and it is a joy for the soul to gossip with them and share a bread.

    There are more than few hundred thousand people like this all over the earth. They are contented, they have the graitude in their heart and a longing to share with the people on the same wave length.
    These hundereds thousand people were called lovingly by Osho,” My people, the very salt of the earth.”
    These people are treated as step siblings in the storybooks style.
    This swiss_indian sannyas couple has told me that my words are not my words, they are the cry of many. Somehow i have become the vehicle to bring up the collective rage.
    Speak with few of the old timers personally. You will know what is missing, some very vital ingredients have gone missing. There is no poetry any more.

    In a layman’s term, Semen is there but sperms are missing.

    The operating system, the milieu, the environment of 1987-1999 is very much needed. That was a success formula devloped by Him after many trials and errors.

    But this can happen only if two men’s politburo let go a bit of their grip.

    I know it is not going to happen in their life time, though miracles can happen and biggest miracle in hte sannyas world is not enlightenment but humilty and feeling Sorry.

  295. Anand says:

    Shantam Prem, maybe their time in Pune is just over. Life is full of mysteries.
    Osho was never there to fulfill our expectations. You go to school and then after school you move on with life…. Who says that you have to go Pune year after year. If the place does not fit anymore with their momentary situation, be happy and move on.

  296. meera says:

    POONA resort is
    NOT
    A MYSTERY SCHOOL ANYMORE
    it is not
    a commune..

    it is a 3 star hotelresort with
    HOTELmanagers like Amrito

    nobody knows Amrito ..
    he is nobody
    just a businessman
    not even a meditator..
    you cannot compare him
    to people like Arun
    who created his own place..

    Amrito never created anything
    he is capitalizing on other people´s energies…

    he is not only a crook..
    BUT A BLOODSUCKER TOO

    banning people means
    he is playing a
    POWERGAME
    which is ugly
    and full
    of SELFIMPORTANCE = EGO
    and greed…….
    he dosen´t want anybody
    comes to know
    what he and his gang is doing

    he has a western calculating mind…

    he is not fit to stay in India anymore

    he should be banned ..from India
    as I said before
    and do his own thing somewhere else

    just hope that indian courts will get the point
    and drag him infront of the judge…

    he should answer where these 30million dollars dissappeard in 1997
    when they lost it in the stockmarket in USA
    and what right they have to play with our money…

    Osho invested each singel rupee in creating the commune

    these bastards are just playing around
    with OUR money

    and having good times
    in 5 star resorts
    at palmbeaches
    in third world countries
    and all over the world…

    THIS IS NOT OSHO´S WORK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    its selfish and ignorant…………….

    damn them……….

    enough is enough!

  297. Kranti says:

    We all understand you Shantam.. not for a moment anyone doubrs your inner longing and passion..Infact i do share similar views with you in few things.. I also want to see few things changing in pune..

    But those things can come if Keerthis , Neelams and Amritos just have few discusions.. Where i differ is there is no need for great political attempt like what Harri Om talks or overthrowing management kind of stuff.. I dont see any need for such drastic things.. What we want interms of balance can be brought about if people can get together..Things which genuine sannyasins want to see as a way to relate with Osho..Those are simple things..not very complicated at all..

  298. meera says:

    and by the way ……..
    Amrito is not even managing the place
    the resort is run by Thata MANAGEMENT
    one of Indias Multies

    Amrito an co. ..
    serve only as puppeters .
    .for the ignorant customers…

    long ago the socalled inner circle
    sold everything and left
    from ´horrible Poona`

    Poona is there
    for the ´white sheep ´
    who work whole year
    to have some fun in the boozeria..
    at least here you can meet some old friends

    and get a taste of meditation..in buddhahall

    OSHO IS NOT DEAD

    SAMADHI
    IS A PLACE FULL OF COOL ALIVE ENERGY

    enough to get your fill
    before one has to go back
    and work hard for the rest of the year…

    if we had enlightend beings at the resort…
    and our
    ´meera-creative- arts- department´
    supporting artists

    then ……the place would just become
    an unimaginable
    DREAM..

    spreading out
    all over the world
    like a
    WILDFIRE

  299. Dhanyam says:

    As we all know, the management has been leasing many parts to Sodexho, an French conglomerate. And the management’s policy is to drop the past. I wonder when they will decide that Pune is the past, Osho is everywhere, and lease everything they haven’t already leased. Then Sodexho can change the property in any way that helps them make a profit. OIF has a strong setup in London.

  300. Kranti says:

    Dhanyam

    Leasing to sodexsho is effective for maintenance..as I understand.. I come from outsourcing Industry and thats is the way things are run everywhere..It is something to do with efficient management which allows management to focus on core areas..There is nothing negative about it..

    Please let me know what you think is negative in that as you may be aware of something

  301. meera says:

    the resort is

    OSHO´S DREAM

    AND YOU WANT TO SELL IT!!!!!!!!!

    there is a
    NEW GENERATION IN THIS WORLD
    who has all the rights to get a taste
    of the enlightened being

    THEY ARE O U R FUTURE

    YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD

    ENGland is an island
    which will be soon covered by water

    and

    UNLESS
    YOU GIVE
    INDIA
    ITS DIGNITY BACK
    THE WHOLE WORLD
    CANNOT RECOVER ´

    OSHO

  302. Kranti

    Are you paid by the resort or are they giving you free gate pass or free tantra lessons ??

    You are clever to answer half of my question but no guts tro answer THE MAIN QUESTION

    PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION: KRANTI
    AND THAT APPLIES TO KRANTI AND ANTHONY
    We have forgotten the main central question that Rajneesh has raised
    Rajneesh is asking and saying clearly that the Mandate given by Osho is not to interfere into any spiritual matters and that the inner circle is not a club to discuss philosophy or decide the direction of Osho vision.

    Please see the Mandate of Osho and know that they are overstepping their real authority and it is therefore very clear that the inner circle is wrong. Even a child can understand this and needs to debate about this simple and obvious matter.

    Am I clear – first come the clarity on the given mandate which is tthe main issue Rajneesh has clearly raised.

    amitabh

  303. Kranti says:

    Amitabh..thought I did answer that question although in my own way

    What is Osho vision? Please let me know so i can understand you more clearly..

    Think we all are confusing between Osho vision and methods available / not available

  304. garimo says:

    Kranti,

    >>>>What is Osho vision? Please let me know so i can understand you more clearly..

    Seems you still seek to avoid. I see no where that Amitabh has raised any questions on esoteric interpretations of what Osho’s vision is. His subject was much more of substance. The “vision” thing is your thing, and you on many occasions have given your interpretations of what that is…
    It looks like you have a game in play.

    -garimo
    Yikes!
    I’ve posted again…

  305. Kranti

    either you are confused or afraid to realize that Osho gave a clear mandate with clear instructions – What the Inner circle can do and What they can not do.

    In fact they are not even allowed to discuss philosophy. Which clearly means non interference into spiritual matters.

    Unless you reply this simple point as Garimo says you are avoiding the real main question.

    If Rajneesh is right then this debate ends here with clear understanding that the inner circle is overstepping their mandate.

    Osho is our Master and not the inner circle.

  306. meera says:

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  307. oshobob says:

    I don’t know what all this commotion is about against the OIF group that everyone wants to upend and banish.

    Look …

    Dhanyam says that OIF has a strong setup in London.

    And Meera says that England is an island that will soon be covered by water.

    So, if you just let nature takes its course, it looks like the Gang of Two/Three will sell the Resort, relocate to London, and then be covered with water.

    Kind of a Laotzuian form of peotic justice with an eccentric British twist to it.

  308. oshobob says:

    That should be spelled “poetic justice” — if anything like that still has the capacity to exist in our decidedly non-poetic 21st century world.

  309. garimo says:

    really?

    this is who manages the resort?
    http://www.sodexousa.com/

    Sounds kind’a like the resort is a concession stand at the Osho movie house with over priced popcorn?

  310. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti you think that you answered Amitabh’s question by disputing his argument that all types of spiritual domains – tantra, sufi, zen etc – are part of Osho’s vision. You say that he is much vaster than all these and his essence is awareness, meditation, and celebration. Whether Osho is all traditions combined or all traditions separated is a moot point. As Keerti says Osho is multi-dimensional not one dimensional. You list all that is available at the resort and request seemingly innocently what else could there be – as if you want a few practical requests and that will shed light on the issue.

    The simple truth is the place is not as it seems. In all the areas of discussion on the surface it seems to make sense, but delving a little deeper the truth always comes out otherwise. This is why Shantam speaks of all the disaffected sannyasins. You say that Keerti just needs to discuss a few things with Amrito and all will be well. They will come to a compromise and a few things will be added and a few things deleted. Then all the hundreds of thousands of old sannyasins will come flooding back. You have no sense of the depth of what is happening. People repeatedly tell you issue after issue yet you do not listen. You return to superficial arguments and then ask for superficial responses. This kind of dialogue can go on endlessly and will not change the situation because the establishment is firmly entrenched in their power.

    Some important issues have come to light, yet they remain unanswered. The dialogue returns to the superficial and those who point out the truth at depth grow weary and leave. This is how it has been for the last twenty years. You are propagating the myth – with seeming intelligent argument that I consider simply clever and ignorant. Fortunately you are not the only judge in this dialogue.

    Garimo also points out your pattern. You even ask Amitabh about Osho’s vision. This is directing the dialogue away from the superficial and revealing into the philosophical. Again this is an avoidance of the key issues that have transpired. That Amitabh and others are coming back to the key issues points to the fact that some people have picked up on them. Thanks Garimo for posting again!

    Sodexo…that’s right I mentioned once about the swimming pool being microbiologically speaking full of shit, and a sannyasin engineer said the pool should have been closed. Sodexo was in charge of that one…well done again and again and again – utter incompetence and heavily implicated in ongoing serious criminal negligence.

    Last thing…I just wrote an article on my blog with title “Is Osho Auditorium the Next Bhopal?” Evidence of poor construction and the effects of synchronised active meditations may combine to collapse the brand new pyramid. That should at least make the back pages of the local rag if it happens. Worst case scenario is a few thousand people squashed. I suppose if you can’t make them sick with water you can catch them another way.

    Sorry for changing the subject Amitabh.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  311. Prem Abhay says:

    Can we please continue this discussion on the latest news article, as all these issues are interrelated.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  312. meera says:

    yes ..

    this is a DYNAMITE MEDITATION

    and soon the ATOMBOMB

    is going to EX-plode

    in BUDDHA -AUDITORIUM

  313. Kranti says:

    Amitabh / Garimo / Abhay

    First of all understand i am not defending anyone here..I never even met Amrito or Jayesh . I declared it upfront the i am an outsider and i express what i feel purely as someone who loves Osho and one who has not seen anything against Osho wjat wanted in PUNE. I dont have self interest either in the form of tickets to tantra groups or anything else .. this is the problem which i see with all people who overreact

    I will reply you on what i posted shortly..

  314. Kranti says:

    Garimo

    If people talk about vision and i say something then they switch to things with ‘ substance ‘. If we talk about things with substance then I am told I am talking about practical issues and I dont understand the depth of what is happening.. And you think i am avoiding?

  315. meera says:

    the

    VISION

    is

    the

    MYSTERY SCHOOL

    only a MYSTIC

    can run a MYSTERY SCHOOL

    without a MYSTIC
    there won´t be a

    MYSTERY SCHOOL

    so when the MASTER leaves his body

    the MYSTERY SCHOOL is finished

    or else he leaves a successor

    who can continue to keep the

    MYSTERY up

  316. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti you are of the opinion that people are overreacting. You have intellectually comprehended to some extent the arguments that people have made against the establishment. You consider them an overreaction in part because you have not had any direct experience of what they (we) are talking about. Still this is not sufficient reason for your tendency to manipulate, avoid, trivialise and obfuscate the end of this thread. I think the answer is quite simple. Amrito has hypnotised you.

    You stated that what is needed is nothing dramatic and that some healthy dialogue and a few changes may be what is needed. When Amitabh complains that you are avoiding and trivialising, you say…I perhaps do not understand sufficiently Osho’s vision, and asked Amitabh what his thoughts are. The thing is we have been discussing the issue of Osho’s vision at length (and depth).

    The Inner-Circle has the role of taking care of Osho’s practical affairs. It was not given the authority to interpret Osho’s vision, or to only make available part of Osho’s legacy. Its task was to make practical decisions that protect and make available the whole of Osho’s legacy: not just a part of it, and not just a part of it that a few people in the Inner-Circle like.

    Though to this day Amrito has not explained his view of the role of the Inner-Circle it is generally accepted that the above is the case. Amrito’s response to Shantam appears to provide some background of what Amrito’s position is. Anthony takes the view that Amrito is presenting the Zen style version of Osho to the world – none of the flowery staff like kissing marble and gazing at pictures on wallpaper; just the real essence of Osho without the religious addiction…pure Osho.

    Arguments and evidence have been provided that dispute the approach that Amrito appears to be laying out. I went through Amrito’s response point by point. Swami Rajneesh went through the issues in detail. Keerti and others also provided information that highlighted that whatever Osho’s vision is, it is much more than the limited version that Amrito is offering. There were no refutations to this.

    We arrived to the point where it was considered that Osho’s vision is vast – multidimensional, devotional, sufi, zen, tantric, celebratory, and whatever – and that Amrito and Jayesh were offering only a limited version of this: based on their interpretation. At this point it becomes clear why so many people have left, and it is not for trivial reasons as you make out. They have left because what was fundamental to them being with Osho had been taken away. The reasons for leaving are therefore not trivial nor an overreaction. Amrito and Jayesh have taken away so much of what Osho has offered. Also it has been shown that Osho did not himself reject his ‘old’ approaches: it is not the case that he became wise and threw out a lot of his old teachings and practices. Osho did not for example throw out devotion and focus only on individualistic Zen.

    It is at this point in the thread that Amitabh wants to here from Anthony and Kranti. The Inner-Circle has a practical role. It seems however that they have been trying to take off where Osho left, and further his vision. This is NOT their function. If this is accepted then they are acting outside their mandate and have lost their legitimacy. This is why Amitabh wants to here from you!!! He wants to here why it is that Amrito and Jayesh are making available all of Osho’s aspects to the world. He wants to here why it is not the case that they have narrowly interpreted Osho’s vision. He wants to here why they are actually only involved in managing the practical affairs to ensure Osho’s legacy is offered to the world pure and whole. You however simply respond by saying it is all an overreaction and anyhow what does Osho’s vision mean? No wonder he was frustrated with you.

    If you do not reply the conclusion remains as stands: Amrito and Jayesh are operating outside their function, are offering only a limited slice of Osho, and are illegitimate. I would add that they are also trying to shut down any attempt to offer the other aspects of Osho to the world. Not only do they kick out all the people that don’t fit with their narrow view, they seek to stop the propagation of other aspects of Osho.

    What people find within Osho’s vast approach is up to them to discover. The argument is that Amrito and Jayesh have themselves cut a narrow piece of that vision and are imposing this on everyone, and that they have no authority to do this.

    I wait for a response that details how it is not the case that Amrito and Jayesh are interpreting Osho’s vision and only offering a narrow (abridged or compiled) version to the world. You do have one other option. You may like to argue that the Inner-Circle does actually have the authority to make spiritual decisions – in the same way that a successor would.

    It appears to me to be a parallel with what they are offering of Osho’s words to the world through OIF publishing. Osho’s words are not offered whole, but in an abridged version edited in a certain way. This is also outside there mandate because any abridgement or compilation would need be have spiritual authority to have legitimacy. Managing Osho’s practical affairs does not include how to interpret what Osho has said. They are here committing the same error as they have done in running of the Pune resort. This is why they have no legitimacy to the copyrights of Osho’s works – because they are offering a narrow interpretation of the vastness of Osho’s words that is outside their practical mandate.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  317. Kranti says:

    Abhay

    The last post of yours is the first time i really felt you are presenting a case.. I really appreciated the way you explained things in this post. But as of now i dont see the way you see things..to me what is happening in PUNe is almost complete interms of a Osho vision although i do would like few things to chamge..since i am not on the same page as everyone i take leave from these type threads.. Thanks for sharing so much

  318. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    Swami Rajneesh sends a message:

    EACH SANNYASIN IS PRICELESS
    AND NOT MERELY LABOURERS
    _______________________________________

    MY WAKEUP CALL
    on the OSHO ROLLS ROYCE STUPIDITY

    i always had a clear rebellious message of
    TRANSPARENCY & ACCOUNTABILITY
    ( which includes MY OWN MASTER also )
    and FREEDOM for ALL

    and the priceless value
    of each sannyasins contribution

    for those who say
    that Rajneesh is a blind devotee kissing marble
    that Rajneesh is a stupid indian devotional type
    that he wants to be a carbon copy of Osho

    then read my 29 feburary 2008
    blog message in livingosho@yahoogroups.com
    ______________________________________

    QUESTION TO RAJNEESH:
    why do you want to be a carbon copy of Osho ?

    RAJNEESH ANSWERS:
    who wants to be a carbon copy of Osho…
    i would never want to be the Bhagwan…
    a Rolls Royce Guru…
    a Rolls Royce to me is a coffin carriage…
    for the dead…in a funeral…

    the greatest Master of Masters Bhagwan…
    thought this was his greatest zen stick joke…

    then get this joke….please…
    who paid for this zen stick joke huh ??

    the sweat tears and blood of sannyasins
    from all over the world
    who gave up their lives and sold their homes
    and everything they had
    to create oregon the great dream…

    when this dream was smashed
    by the American government…

    who paid the price ?? for this zen stick joke ??

    these 2000 sannyasins who paid with their blood…
    were homeless penniless and on the road…

    the joke was on them…

    if he was truly their beloved Master…
    Buddha of Buddhas…
    he should have first taken care of these beautiful sannyasins…and donated all the oregon and stupid joke rolls royces to those who gave it all up for him

    after all if it was only a joke…
    then why not share “ the joke “
    for the well being
    of his beloved homeless disciples ??

    i distance myself from such Gurus…
    and question everything…
    and all the material trappings of such Gurus…

    the old world of Gurus and Gurudom is dead…

    the new man is a friend and fellow traveler…accountable to all…
    humble and sharing his vision of love

    there has never been a sangham around bhagwan

    just bhagwan and money trips
    and bhagwan and money trips…
    millions in donations, rolls royce, lear jets,
    diamonds, shiny robes…
    glittering like a clown in a circus…

    sangham sharanam gachhachami…
    sangham sharanam gachhachami…
    sangham sharanam gachhachami…

    bye bye buddham sharanam gachhachami !!!

    I am only interested in the well being
    of all seekers of truth…
    no more exploitation by any Guru or Master…whosoever it may be !!!

    please stick to your Rolls Royce Guru Bhagwan…

    I am simply rajneesh the friend

  319. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    swami rajneesh message continued:

    QUESTION ASKED:
    why are you only devotional in your book ?

    RAJNEESH ANSWERS:
    my beloved friend…
    personally I feel that Bhagwan deserved
    one Rolls Royce for each day he was alive…
    each day he was breathing…
    each day one Rolls Royce
    is what he deserved and more…
    but it is the thought that counts…
    not the actual purchase or “ donations if you please “

    if the greatest Master of Masters…sharp as a sword could only use this as his zen stick
    did he run out of ideas of other zen sticks ….

    If only Rolls Royce worked
    as a shake up to the world…

    then Bill Gates could have out Mastered Bhagwan
    with 2000 Rolls Royces if you please…
    then the American President
    could out Master Bhagwan with his US Armed force with his billion dollar Stealth Bombers…
    and his trillion dollar and nuclear missiles
    if you wish…

    the same logic…the same stupidity…

    line up 93 Rolls Royces for the world to see…
    line up 23 stealth bombers for the world to see…
    line up nuclear missiles for the world to see…

    absurd logic !!!

    love rajneesh
    _________________________________________

    QUESTION ASKED you like to shake up things ?

    RAJNEESH ANSWERS:
    Yes, wow…lots of spice !!! …shaken and stirred…

    I am a devotee and totally surrendered to Osho…
    He is simply the greatest master that lived…

    But I am not a blind puppet on a string !!!

    Bhagwan declared himself Bhagwan…himself !!!
    the first enlightened man to title himself Bhagwan
    and you all say that he was not a Guru ???

    Pure Guru…not a Master nor a Friend…
    simply accept he was a 1970’s Indian Guru…

    Osho exposed Buddha, Mahavir, Krishna, Jesus, Krishnamurti…all their so called conditionings…
    their mistakes in creating their religions…
    or no religions for that matter of Krishnamurti…

    all the shortcomings…of hundred of Masters
    of all ages…down the centuries….

    he seems to be the only infallible Master
    in 2500 years….

    i see today the seeds he has sown
    to represent the inner circle…

    greedy for power, greedy for money…
    all for oneself…ban the outspoken…
    destroy fire that threatens position…
    create sheep and a docile stupid following…
    by the ones in authority…

    Osho only kept the rich in power…
    front rows for the rich disciples…
    yes, enlightment certificates
    for those “ donating “ his 93 rolls royces
    donating what was told of them to donate…
    rolls royces to come close to him !!!

    anything for the rich man guru game….

    realize…poor Bhagwan..
    struggled for 15 years after his enlightment…
    from a small village jabalpur…
    teaching to students to earn his daily bread…
    moving in trains in india from town to town
    to become accepted as a Guru…
    extremely hard life to spread the message…
    finally when he was recognised…
    after 15 years of deep struggle…

    then came the American Guru dream…
    the rolls royces…diamonds…glittering gowns…
    his show was on…

    can you see “ the poor mans “ conditioning…anyone ???

    this has created the greed
    and the flowers we have today…
    our poona resort reflect these very seeds
    that were nourished by Bhagwan himself…
    protect and encourage the rich and powerful
    amongst his own disciples…

    no compassion to those
    who are in need of anything…just pure business…
    pay and join a therapy…pay and enter the resort…
    pay for your meditation…
    pay…pay…pay…pay…all in terms of hard cash !!!

    so…beloved disciples…
    pay the price for his rolls royce culture…
    the money game…

    and those loving disciples who worked
    for those 5 years in Oregon…walk back home…
    just get the simple point I am making !!!
    the inner circle is simply following
    what their Bhagwan sowed…
    the way to the rich mans guru !!!
    ____________________________________

    QUESTION : Osho had his own zen logic

    RAJNEESH ANSWERS :
    a zen master is absurd
    and his absurdity has an inner logic
    and compassion is that inner logic

    and compassion to wakeup the disciple
    and compassion to transform the disciple

    and where is the logic and compassion
    in 93 rolls royces ??

    this is not zen absurdity and just plain stupidity !!!

  320. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    continued….

    QUESTION quoting osho to defend his rolls royces :
    Just the other day Anando was showing me one book published against me in Australia
    by a couple who have been sannyasins for three years and have been in the commune.
    But just looking at their ideas, it seems they have never seen me.
    They are saying that they were working, working hard, and with their work I was purchasing Rolls Royces.
    You can see the absurdity: their work was not bringing any money. Their work was making their own houses to live in, the roads – which were needing money, not producing money. But in their mind –and for all those three years also — they must have been resentful.
    Those Rolls Royces were not produced by the commune. They were presents from outside, from all over the world. And I was not their owner – I had given them to the commune. They were commune property,
    and I have not brought any of them with me; I have left them with the commune. Everything that I had has been left with the commune. I never owned anything.
    But there must have been the idea that they are earning money, and I am wasting money. That is their resentment.
    What money were you earning? In fact you needed money to make houses, to make roads, to make a dam – a dam needed two and a half million dollars to make.
    YOU WERE CONTRIBUTING YOUR LABOUR,
    but we were not creating money out of it

    so that I could purchase Rolls Royces, so that I could purchase anything. I have not purchased anything from the money produced by the commune because the commune never produced any money.
    The commune was absorbing money.
    In fact all my royalties, all my books, all their profits were going to the commune.
    The situation is just the opposite — that I had given everything to the commune.
    Now, four hundred books in different languages were bringing millions of dollars in royalties, and those royalties were going to the commune.
    If I had wanted to purchase Roll Royces, I could have purchased my own Rolls Royces, as many as I wanted, just out of my royalties.
    But the resentment, the anger, is blind. In the commune we invested two hundred million dollars.
    Those sannyasins perhaps think they had brought two hundred million dollars there!
    Without me and the people who love me around the world, those two hundred million dollars would not have been possible.

    RAJNEESH ANSWERS:
    ok…I will be absolutely clear with bhagwan quote :

    first, It is not a question of weather bhagwan
    could or could not use his own money
    to buy 93 rolls royces…

    I am looking at the absurdity
    so called zen stick of his 93 rolls royces…
    and seeing his compassion
    towards 3000 sannyasins
    when Oregon was destroyed
    where 3000 sannyasins were homeless a
    nd on the street…if this was a zen joke…
    it should have been used
    to support these beautiful homeless sannyasins

    second, bhagwan says that these sannyasins were here to build their own homes ect..
    and they were not bringing in money…
    utterly stupid statement…
    and totally heartless I would say…

    they were dedicating their very lives in Oregon…
    which is worth more than all the money bhagwan
    could have earned from all his book ever….
    the 3000 sannysins sincerity
    and dedication was priceless…
    and bhagwan is bullshitting
    when he states such crap…

    the commune never needed 93 rolls royces…
    plans were to buy 365 rolls royces…
    it was bhagwan who asked for them…
    and directly asked for donations of rolls royces…
    through collection of donations
    from the rich or poor sannyasins
    or whatever he may say to justify…

    that sannyasins
    were simply contributing their labour ??

    this is a slanderous statement…
    and I object strongly against him
    or any Buddha for that matter…

    this is compassion ??
    bullshit once and I say bullshit twice !! and thrice

    had they hired labour in America…
    they would have to sell their pants !!!

    the dam required 2.5 million dollars to build…
    the 93 rolls royces cost 15 million dollars
    absurd again…
    just for a so called zen stick…
    the greatest zen master
    had only one ace up his sleeve…rolls royces…

    that all the royalties of bhagwan
    was offered to the commune…great sacrifice huh ??
    then why is he a master of so called compassion mentioning his earnings and royalties ??

    this is simply matter of buddhahood…his work…
    his joy as he always says…

    I can cut the entire letter to shreds if I wish…
    but will spare poor bhagwan…

    my main point and intention was to show
    why we have this money and power games today
    by the inner circle…
    why money and power is encouraged and….

    who fed this dragon which has become a terror and destructive of hundreds of sannyasins lives today

    my main object is to ridicule the zen master theory
    and seek where his compassion lay ???

    this was simply bhagwan
    gone into his 1970’ s indian guru trip balloon

    remember all of you…
    and I wish to remind bhagwan shree rajneesh

    without your sannyasins
    you would have been nowhere…
    mr buddha bhagwan
    just chewing grass in jabalpur…

    these 3000 sannyasins
    donated their precious lives to bhagwan…
    more than the entire worth of 200 million dollars
    mr buddha bhagwan…

    the disciple is always greater than a master…
    their trust and surrender
    have to be regarded and treasured…
    priceless…

    I rest my case…you all decide…what is what now…
    I am willing to totally butcher any letter in this matter
    anyday…anywhere…anytime…

    bring it on !!!

    love rajneesh

  321. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    and finally…

    QUESTION : thank you for your clarity
    but you seem very angry to me!

    RAJNEESH ANSWERS
    hilarious..
    I am laughing loudly
    and totally non serious…just sincere…and total…
    I am like this…total
    when I commit myself to any deep issue…

    I have no real issues with oregon matters…
    I am just looking at where we are today…

    today we are reaping
    what has been sown by bhagwan…
    you can clearly see the implications
    of today issues…
    linked to such past matters…

    where sannyasins have no value
    in the commune processes and its creation…

    sannyasins should be treated
    with gratitude and regard…
    these are the sangham…
    where is sangham sharanam gacchahami ???

    I point to this issue mainly…today is my focus…

    where we are headed
    as a sannyasin community is my focus…

    this is my question…my debate…
    my passion and love towards all sannyasins…

    yes please…great title…” the guru butcher rajneesh “

    love laughingly your friend rajneesh

    _________________________________

    QUESTION : osho never owned anything

    RAJNEESH ANSWERS:
    In our masters own words….!!!
    I go on receiving all kinds of things, and I will go on distributing them to others. What will I do with them?
    I have come naked and I will go naked from the world. And I am still naked under my clothes, I know it!

    exactly my point…
    the 93 rolls royces were his zen joke…
    he should have distributed them
    to his 2000 sannysains
    who were homeless and on the street of oregon…

    instead these 2000 sannyasins went home naked
    and bhagwan went in his rolls royce !!
    got the joke now ??

    rajneesh

    _________________________________

    RAJNEESH HAMMERS OSHO STATEMENT
    You were contributing your labor,
    but we were not creating money out of it,
    their work was not bringing any money.

    please kindly also estimate
    the price of simple labour in America
    for 3000 labourers ( sannyasins )
    for 5 years in a row…working 16 – 18 hours daily

    this will tell you the real money story…
    and the bullshit rolls royces realities…
    this so called myth is broken…
    shattered by me here…

    now one can see
    the way inner circle target sannyasins…
    fodder for their swiss account cash…
    mere labourers working to serve their masters !!!
    rajneesh

    “ You were contributing your labor,
    but we were not creating money out of it
    their work was not bringing any money.
    Their work was making their own houses to live in,
    the roads -which were needing money,
    not producing money. “

    Bhagwan is living
    in the Indian 1970’s Guru Dreamland

    WAKEUP BHAGWAN SHREE RAJNEESH !!!

    1982 the “ minimum wage “ wage act in America
    remember “ minimum wage act “
    for labourers and unqualified labour…
    was 6 US$ per hour

    ( with conditions of only 40 hours weekly
    and overtime pay for over 40 hours weekly )

    “ sannyasins were not producing money “
    how ridiculous !!!

    labour is simply labour in the eyes of a Buddha !!!

    sannyasins were working 14 – 16 hours daily !!!
    just for simple maths…
    we keep it just 12 hours …ok ??

    6 US$ per hour x 12 hours = 72 US$ daily
    72 US$ daily x 365 days = 26,280 US$ yearly
    26280 US$ per year x 4 years = 105120 US$

    for 4 years each sannyasin contributed
    105,120 ( one sannyasin ) x 4000 sannyasins = 420,480,000

    420 MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF LABOUR…
    JUST LABOUR ??

    AND BHAGWAN SAYS “ THEY ARE ONLY CONTRIBUTING THEIR LABOUR “

    NOW GUESS WHO OWES WHO…
    IN JUST PURE MONEY TERMS !!!

    SIMPLY RAJNEESH

  322. garimo says:

    Kranitlove,

    you write:
    >>>If people talk about vision and i say something then they switch to things with ‘ substance ‘.
    >>>If we talk about things with substance then I am told I am talking about practical issues and I dont understand the depth of what is happening..
    >>>And you think i am avoiding?
    Yes, it looks to me you keep throwing unrelated things at the clear and direct question that was asked in hopes that something will stick and change the direction of the questioning. The only reason I can think of why this would happen is that you know the answer and don’t want to accept the reality of it and choose to avoid the question and dance around it.

    from Amitabh:

    >>>PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION: KRANTI
    >>>AND THAT APPLIES TO KRANTI AND ANTHONY
    >>>We have forgotten the main central question that Rajneesh has raised
    Rajneesh is asking and saying clearly that the Mandate given by Osho is not to interfere into any spiritual matters and that the inner circle is not a club to discuss philosophy or decide the direction of Osho vision.

    >>>Please see the Mandate of Osho and know that they are overstepping their real authority and it is therefore very clear that the inner circle is wrong. Even a child can understand this and needs to debate about this simple and obvious matter.

    The subject of the question seems to me the original intended role of the inner circle and not so much about the interpretations of Osho’s vision. Should you answer or not answer, or how you answer isn’t of much importance for me. It hasn’t much to do with me, and really I understand the irrelevance if I were to agree or disagree. But what was relevant for me was the flow of the conversation. What seemed like a clear question was presented to you, and the dilemma it presents seem to be one you wished to avoid. That’s what I wished to point out , what I was observing.

    I guess for me, if you were to want more clarity from Amitabh about his question, I’d want to be shown the “Mandate of Osho”. What is this mandate?

    hugs to you,
    -garimo

    and for Meera, my impression is you present some sort of delusion from the past.

    “A mystery school comes into existence with a master,
    and disappears.

    And that’s how it should be.
    In nature, in existence,

    everything that is real . . .

    A roseflower opens itself in the morning and
    by the evening it is gone. ”

    – The Osho Upanishad

    It’s over.

  323. meera says:

    Garimo I live in the past or you live in the past..?!

    its..over — ?!

    or maybe new a new beginning.. !

    life is everlasting…everything changes ..
    forms are changing

    Osho´s whole work was to create Masters

    instead of one Master
    now we have many masters…
    and we should have many mysteryschools
    all over the world

    so many souls on earth are desperate ..

    concerning the rollsroyces..

    Osho is not that old fool you might believe

    he as well could think as a business man…

    the rollsroyces were an investment…

    they serverd as capital…rather then money…
    money was continuosly robbed by his disciples..
    it was impossible to rob a rollsroyce
    without everybody noticing

    rollsroyces increase in value over the years..
    so they are a very good investment
    incase money was needed
    or..
    in case ..as it happend ..he had to run away from America because of these violent barbarious clu-clux-clan.criminals

    then Poona 2 was build up in no time

    all this investment had gone to Poona…

    Poona was a mystery school
    and should be
    a mystery school for future generations..
    .otherwise we are heading for a global suicide…

  324. oshobob says:

    Good point on the Rolls Royces Meera. Your slant could very well be the truth or at least partially the truth.
    No one really knows the whole truth about anything unless you are on the inside of the design and creation of the story.

    Usually the two points of view on the RR’s are:
    One, that Osho was a materialist fake guru,
    and Two, that it was a “Zen stick” to mock American materialism and consumerism, or to test his disciples.

    But there are many other possibilities — including the “capital investment” one you just mentioned. Although I doubt if a Rolls Royce increases in value automatically and continuously. Like any other car, a used RR probably decreases in value, and then at some point way down the line increases again if it is excellent condition and becomes rare. So the Foundation probably lost some money if they sold them as used cars. But at least they were locked in the garage and couldn’t be stolen like money in the bank can be.

    Another very possible scenario is that the Osho Foundation never owned most of those RR’s in the first place. They could very well have been leased on a monthly or yearly basis, as a PR stunt, both for Osho (extending his “rich man’s guru” marketing ploy), and even for the Rolls Royce company itself — what a great idea for global free adverstising! It’s still being talked about 25 years later.

    It’s almost like Osho had a RR dealership showroom in the mountains of Oregon. Just as a VW, Toyota, or Ford dealership has a lot full of 1,000 new vehicles every year, the dealer or his company doesn’t “own” a single one. If they sell one, then the car manufacturer gets their money for it. If they don’t, the manufacturer gets the car back.

    Or maybe it’s a combination of all of the above, in some wild and crazy mixture that seems very Oshoesque– only the people who created the drama know the story for sure.

    Also, Meera, I would agree with you that Osho wanted to create many enlightened beings, many masters, many mystery schools spread over the world like scattered seeds. No doubt about that. But keeping in mind his place as the source — one seed can make the whole earth green.

    Cheers.

  325. Anand says:

    Whoever has met Swami Rajneesh in person knows, that he is no devotee of Osho, no disciple or lover of Osho..he is pure trash and lowlife!

  326. meera says:

    hahaha who Anand.. you are the
    true trash and lowclass indian…

    oshobob… <`one seed can make the whole earth green`

    what about you? any sprouting from your side?!

  327. KAT says:

    Ikkyu

    I Hate Incense
    A master’s handiwork cannot be measured
    But still priests wag their tongues explaining the “Way” and babbling about “Zen.”
    This old monk has never cared for false piety
    And my nose wrinkles at the dark smell of incense before the Buddha.

    yes and ,still priests wag their tongues explaining the “Way” and babbling about “Zen.”

  328. KAT says:

    Osho : This is one of the reasons why women are not yet liberated, because they cannot become a force together. They sympathize with the man; their sympathy is not for other women. With other women they have a relationship only of jealousy — if she has better clothes, if she has better ornaments, if she has a good car, if she has a better house. Their only relationship with other women is of jealousy. But if every woman is jealous of every other woman, then naturally this is one of the fundamental causes of their slavery.

    They cannot become a force; otherwise they are half the number of people — they could have managed to become liberated long ago. Any time they wanted to be liberated there was nothing to prevent them. They are their own enemies. One thing every woman has to remember is that man has divided you in such a cunning way that you can never become a force. You are jealous of each other; you don’t have any sympathy for each other. You would rather sympathize with men — not your man of course! It has to be somebody else’s man.

    According to me Amrito is innocent . Osho mentioned that 2 of his communes were detroit because of jealousy , think about it ….

  329. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti thankyou for not overreacting to what I had to say.

    The story I heard about the Rolls-Royces was that they were a donation from a single wealthy individual, and that he actually retained ownership of the cars. The cars or the money for them was returned to him after the explosion of The Ranch.

    Swami Rajneesh I sense is trying to bring out an important pattern. The community model of The Ranch was a disaster that carried with it immense injustice. I also say that Pune 2 Ashram (1990’s) was the same. So all these people started out again from scratch as untrusting individuals in the world. Perhaps he is trying to point out that somewhere in the middle of this is the possibility of individuals creating for themselves and the community rather than exploitation of individuals by power and money hungry criminals.

    At least with Pune 2 Resort model it is difficult to exploit people in the same way. If one has an abundance of money and likes the slice of the pie that is on offer there that is good for them – is that you Anthony? The others can simply go elsewhere. They do not have to live alone as recluses for the world is vast and individual seekers can meet up elsewhere – perhaps with a different Master or friend.

    Just to put my issues in the picture….even the practical affairs of the Inner-Circle are done to a deplorable level of quality and insensitivity. They are – it is argued – operating outside their mandate. At the level of their mandate their conduct is anyhow utterly filthy and disgusting.

    If Jayesh is now busy building a new health club at Basho and still he has not addressed the issue of clean water this is totally outrageous. He will send people to the health spa, knows that the water they drink is not clean, and does not care. This has happened for years. Who knows if it is still happening. I do not see how this is any different to poisoning if the pattern is repeated so brazenly. Anyhow for sure he would not hesitate to mass poison – the psychology and the willingness has already been proven. If Jayesh and Amrito create a new world religion then this may create carnage on a mass scale.

    I call on all sannyasins to protest until the truth be known about the state of health and safety at the resort. Also, the water is just the tip of the thawing iceberg of negligence and criminality.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  330. Anand says:

    I apologize for ‘lowlife’..we are all buddhas in essence. “Utterly FAKE’ would be more right.

  331. meera says:

    ok LOL
    we´ll call you now Anand -Fake

    KAT :: are you female.?
    . and IF
    then you belong to those women
    who are against other women
    and rather symphatize with those men
    who are the exploiters of others…

    Amrito and innocent …….pffffffffff
    women in mens-politic

    Abay.. what makes you think that Jayesh and Amrito
    are creating a new worldreligion?

    I never heard about
    HOTEL MANAGERS
    creating new worldreligions LOL

  332. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    Hi Anand(such a beautiful word!!),
    Have you ever sat with Swami Rajneesh? If not, give it a try :)
    Simply close your eyes with him and get lost. I am sure you won’t loose anything and get enough that i am afraid that you may not be able to come back same.

    Lots of Love and Peace
    Anurag

  333. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    Ma Meera , good to have a Ma here but you seem to be too loud .

  334. meera says:

    hi pavitro.. thanks..

    BUT WHO ARE YOU

    TO DECIDE ABOUT OTHERS?

  335. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    you are not other sweetie

  336. Chinmaya says:

    Hey SHANTAM PREM, where you are, your expertise comments not seen for many days to the above said questions and answers of many enlightened sanyasins. Come on and jump in the hot discussion of Rolls Royce etc.etc. You are close to Truth.

  337. oshobob says:

    Meera, here’s my third try today to answer your question — my posts keep getting lost in the vast blackness of cyberspace — maybe because i am downloading some Osho mp3 audios from oshoworld.com at the same time i’m trying to upload the posts to sannyasnews.org.

    well, here’s my website, 3,000 pages of Osho related stuff…

    New Osho mp3 audios from Osho Discourse books:
    Bodhidharma: The Greatest Zen Master
    Nansen: The Point of Departure
    The Last Testament, Vol. 1 (Rajneeshpuram interviews)
    and more….

    http://www.livingworkshop.net

  338. amrito says:

    rajneesh is a baffoon. Ban yourself.

  339. oshobob says:

    testing–amrito replies to critics

  340. amrito says:

    haha *from canada.

    and yes Rajneesh, you are a baffoon. Maybe Amrito’s have a thing in common: they dont like Rajnish, and Rajnish dont like them.

    and Meera, you’re a baffoon as well. Baffoons like baffoons.

    And you too Anurag.

    Oshobob, you’re not a baffoon don’t worry.

    -Amrito

  341. Prem Abhay says:

    Meera, in Shantam and Amrito’s exchange – full exchange towards end of previous thread – Shantam suggests why not build your spiritual casino empire in other major cities and leave Pune as Osho heart land. Amrito says….just wait. There ambition is to create a global spiritual empire, with the basic Pune resort model replicated in innumerable major cities throughout the world. Amrito and Jayesh are nothing more than bad hotel managers, but they believe otherwise and have the capacity to get others to believe this too. Is not the pope just a good empire manager….nothing spiritual in it.

    As for Meera being loud….if people do not speak loudly the deaf shall not here the truth.

    Amrito your comments show about as much intelligence as our blessed deluded guru Amrito. Perhaps it is not a coincidence you have the same name. Keep the scathing criticism coming.

    You have not commented on me and I am desperately wondering if I get in the good books like OshoBob.

    That’s another thing….Swami Rajneesh only uses Osho Rajneesh for his website name. As soon as he posted on this site he was assailed with criticism for taking over Osho’s name. I assume that OshoBob had the same attacks. I can only suppose he fended them off and has attained the right to call himself OshoBob. Do you see the hypocrisy? Do you know why?

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  342. amrito says:

    abhay,

    you’re a baffoon too.

  343. amrito says:

    btw, I did have a bit of respect for Rajneesh before he came on this forum. And he and his followers *came* on this forum.

    His take on Osho and Rolls Royces are pretty lame, and his attempt to differentiate himself from imitation by criticizing Osho’s ward-drobe is un-appealing.

    If him and his bandwagon of morons ever do take over the resort, it’ll be a mental asylum.

    His book is horribly written, idiotically designed and he has hurt the word “mystic rose” quite a bit.

    His mala’s are wayyy too long that someone could hang themselves on it—and someone very well may!

    He’s a baffoon.

    -Amrito

  344. prem bubbie says:

    This hang up on the rolls royces is so much a waste of time-petty bullshit, an ant hill made into a mountain, all by some pissed off-”a guru is not supposed to be like that” people. People continue to have misplaced ideas on how a guru or mystic should or should not act like. These “perfect” ways of being. What trash. What rubbish!!!! You miss the scent of the flower. The beauty of the sunrise. All because of some preconceived notion one had regarding a mystic. I see the rolls royce nonsense as Osho tweaking everyone’s nose. If he’s worth 93 rolls royces, isn’t every human being worth them too? Since we all are from the Source, we are all one Consciousness, we are all unique, just a different part of the great puzzle, if even one is missing it is incomplete. Most still can’t figure that out!!! What stupid sannyasins!!!! So chill out with the stupid shit about wasted labor at the ranch and other petty cry baby shit. Get a fucking life and move on!!!!!! P.S. Meera IS Sw. Rajneesh!!! can’t you tell??//

  345. meera says:

    no bubbie you are wrong…

    I AM MYSELF

    I am in a female body
    far away
    in another part of the world…

    your IDIOT AMRITO
    is just a studip greedy worldy outwardly unspiritual HOTELMANAGER:::

    already afraid
    that someone else
    may take over the place
    on which he is capitalising on…
    paying for his jet-set
    and 5 starhotels
    and private properties

    he dosen´t understand
    that a PLACE dosen´t make a
    MYSTERY SCHOOL
    and he has no glimpse
    of what a MYSTERY SCHOOL is

    it needs a MYSTIC to regognize another MYSTIC

    suggesting others to build up a POONA somewhere else
    shows that he tries to imitate OSHO lika parrot ..
    telling others what OSHO had said…

    he himself is not able
    to create a place in Canada where he is at present .. enjoying skiing and mountains

    from there he is calling people names..
    that is about everything he is capable of..
    and sitting there shivering with fear
    that he might loose his empire
    which he thinks OSHO gave him HAHAHAHAHAHA

    this guy should be admitted into the mentalasylum

    Poona is driving him mad..
    thats why he ran anway…

    soon when he comes back .
    . he better should hide inside the resort in one room…
    because there will be thousands of people
    who understood his violent hurtful unjust inhuman game and will push im out…

    still he didn´t understand
    that he is a mortal being..
    and that death is waiting at his doorstep…

    and unless you are conscious of your death
    you have not lived at all..
    you will never become an enlightened immortal being

    unless you BECOME

    THE NEW MAN

    you will just keep on
    dragging yourself
    from the cradle to the grave..

    and your death
    wil not be a celebration
    but the sum
    of all your greedy selfish hateful insane limitations

    meera

  346. meera says:

    THE GOOSE IS O U T

    The official Riko once ask Nansen to explain to him the old problem of the goose in the bottle.

    “If a man puts a gosling in a bottle and feeds him until he is full grown” said Riko, “how can the man get the goose out without killing it or breaking the bottle.”

    Nansen gave a great clap with his hands and shouted “RIKO!!!”

    “Yes Master” said the official with a start.

    “See?” said Nansen

    “The goose is out!”

    Osho

  347. meera says:

    AMRITO

    WHY DID YOU BAN RAJNEESH?

    do you think you are great … banning people?

    PLS GIVE A DETAILED EXPLANATION:::::::::::

    and an apology…

    and a warm welcome for Rajneesh
    to come back to the resort….

    OTHERWISE YOU ARE A BASTARD:::

    and you
    should

    GO TO HELL

  348. meera says:

    OSHOBOB ::

    I GOT IT!!!!!!!

    GREAT

    THANKS:::::::

  349. shantam prem says:

    Abhay, you are hitting the nails with right logic. And i am sure, you are doing it out of your personal experience and not under the influence of rajneesh, though he has also the right points and i love his sincerety to keep Osho’s place at 17, Koregaon Park pure and uncorrupted for the generations to come.
    As you wrote in one of the post-
    Shantam suggests why not build your spiritual casino empire in other major cities and leave Pune as Osho heart land.

    I stay with this.
    Amrito and jayesh should use their experience to spread Osho in North America, they are free to use all the possible interptations of Osho.
    They should be smart enough to allure even Donald Trump for a new concept of casino with spa and meditation and YES younger girls….. For tantric Zen!

    Poona Should remain Poona As Osho left with all the products he developed and approved…

    For sure, management of now and future should take care that toilets are clean and toilet papers are of good qualtiy and WATER, it should be as good as any bottled water.
    other than this few simple rules and regulations for the daily routine.
    Amrito and Jyaesh team has gone to far away from their mandate.
    If they would have been Gynacologists, i am sure there medical license would have gone CANCELLED long ago!

  350. shantam prem says:

    Meera,
    Can we see your photo say at facebook….

  351. meera says:

    shantam prem..why do you want to see my face ?

    I´m not going to expose myself
    to the murderous mafia…

    here A MESSAGE

    from Osho for

    AMRITO AND JAYESH :

    They all belong to the same category:
    they are too
    calculative, extremist; they miss the opposite extreme.
    They
    are single notes, not harmonies, not symphonies.
    A single
    note has its beauty — an austere beauty — but it is
    monotonous.
    Once in a while it is okay,
    but if it continues you
    feel bored; you would like to stop it.

    OSHO

  352. Shanti says:

    meera. the Amrito who is writing here is a guy from Canada. Not THE Amrito from Pune… ha, ha.
    I agree completely with him…
    You are all bafoons

  353. meera says:

    sorry my mistake..

    the message

    is ABOUT
    Amrito and Jayesh

    not for them…

    its for those who are with OSHO

    and are not against him..
    and using him
    for their own EGO fullfillment
    like the SHEELA GANG

    Lust and greed
    for money and power

    this is the way of the thirdrate politician
    and
    cunning priesthood…

    if these people don´t apologize in public ……………

    to all the banned people

    and give them a hearty welcome- back…

    I´m not talking about criminals
    who might have got banned too, if there are any…

    I´m talking about those people who we all know..

    and give them free accomodation in your hotel
    and free food
    for say at least 3 month
    during high season..
    as a sign of you feeling sorry
    for your inhuman acts…
    which are inappropriate as a sannyasin of OSHO

    OTHERWISE
    soon all YOUR acting
    AS priests and politicians of the resort
    will be exposed to the WORLDWIDE MEDIA

    all the major big magazines
    all over the world….
    will have photos of Jayesh and Amrito

    and the story about their
    MAFIA GANG
    ala SHEELA

  354. Shanti says:

    Friend Meera. why are you so angry?
    When was the last time you were at the resort. did you see Osho alive?
    Because you speak as someone who has been fed all this info to you.
    Were you there when osho was there,? so that you can say there is a difference… or you are just mad because your guru Rajneesh is being trashed?

  355. meera says:

    shanti..

    WHO ARE YOU
    PROJECTING ALL THIS CRAP ON ME?

    I have been for years with Osho
    when he was still in his body..

    I was there
    when he returned from America ..
    taking for hours and
    very angry
    about the
    criminal
    SHEELA GANG

    I AM SPEAKING On MY OWN AUTHORITY:::
    and on behalve of all these
    banned people…

    I lived many years in the commune
    and I know all these
    POWERGAMES:::

    WHERE WERE YOU?

    OF COURSE
    THERE was A DIFFERENCE::::::::

    when HE was there….

    everything was in full swing

    compared to nowadays ..

    the place is dull and dead..
    because
    of
    IDIOTS in charge

  356. Shanti says:

    Beloved. i do not believe shit of what you say. So you were in pune when osho came back from america. just tell me the name of the place you stayed… and the name of the head guard of the ashram at that time. Everybody knew that.
    I do not believe that someone who was with Osho can be impressed by the copycat Rajneesh.
    so just send me that info and I will believe you

  357. shantam prem says:

    First it was Harri Om, now we have faceless Meera, writing as if, it is a fight between Isarel and Hamas!

  358. shantam prem says:

    Still it will be of immense importance if banned or sannyasins living in self imposed exile from ashram, show their displesure with managers not just through words but through faces also.
    In this sense, Meera as a real name or fictitous name dares to bare her mask.
    Nothing can happen to the brave hearts, after all, by the grace of God, ashram authorities don’t yield this much power to hurt someone physically. They are bound by the laws of the civil society.
    And than we claim to tbe the seekers of truth and proclaim our trust in existance, so my request is that people should stand behind their words and actions.

    When rajneesh has a face, banned Amitabh is on the facebook, so dear Meera, please let the sannyas world know who this Ma is.

  359. Shanti says:

    beloved… you are taking too long to answer… my feeling is you are asking someone else about what I asked you

  360. Shanti says:

    ok. meera disappeared after very simple question to test her truth…
    well next…

  361. shantam prem says:

    Same rules of the game for everyone?
    are you on the facebook Shanti or any where else, where His people can know about you and see your face!

  362. meera says:

    don´t you know that the resort has a ´blacklist´
    of banned people and
    would be banned?!

    I don´t like any socalled authorities
    to blacklist me..

    just because I dare to tell the truth…

    Its my HUMAN RIGHT TO BE WHATEVER
    I WANNA BE
    as long as I´m not harming anyone

    AND THESE PEOPLE WHO BAN OTHERS
    ARE HARMFULL!!!!!!!

    THEY HURT THE LEGAL CONSTITUTION
    AND SHOULD BE SCENTENCED IN COURT

    Rajneesh is a sweet person…
    why you people hate him

    is because he hurts your EGO

    because of him you can see what an
    Idiot YOU ARE

    instead of looking inside you look outside

    banning people because your EGO is hurt..
    because you are puffed up with pride and arrogance

    is INHUMAN

    and should be exposed to an indian court

  363. garimo says:

    >>>>SCENTENCED IN COURT

    I like it!
    perhaps Patchouli or Lavender.
    Mandatory aromatherapy could be the solution.

  364. meera says:

    what is your opinion GARIMO

    do you THINK this is just???

    banning people?????

  365. Shanti says:

    SO… My dear Meera. Answer the questions I asked you.
    The reason is simple. You do not seem to have experience with what you are talking about. So answer the questions and we can continue the chat. Otherwise… you are just another… what did Shantam called you? Rajneesh puppies…

    Shantam. My full name is Ma Prem Shanti. I am a designer from Spain. I took sannyas at the ranch in 1984 with Teertha and Amitabh. I currently live and work In Barcelona.
    I went to Poona several times when My Master was back there.
    And I have been a number of other times since he left his body.
    what else… i like intelligent men.

  366. garimo says:

    >>>what is your opinion GARIMO

    >>>do you THINK this is just???

    >>>banning people?????

    I don’t see banning as the source of the problem. It’s a symptom.
    But I’m not close enough to think I have anything other than gossip.
    So I can’t see much value in getting to worked up about it.
    Clearly how we experience our attachments is different.

    My new favorite scent is May Change. It’s from a asian flower/fruit.
    I think it’s indian name is Litsea Cubeba.

  367. Shanti says:

    Meera, darling? did you chicken out?
    I have my serious doubts that you are whom you say you are.
    To start with you do not write like a female, but rather like a truck driver… or an even angrier version of Sw. rajneesh in methamphetamine.
    Therefore…
    Who was the name of the head guard at the ashram?
    where did you stay in poona?

  368. meera says:

    listen Shanti.. why do you freak out?

    why should I be concerned
    about names of guards?
    as a meera
    everyday I floted through the ´gateless gate´
    leaving the guards there
    with open mouth enchanted…
    going for my dance in buddhahall—

    I´m not concerned with politics
    officials
    security or the like..
    I was never concerned to remember any of their names
    I´m just a sannyasin a MEERA
    who dances for the people in the road..
    singing songs for my audience
    playing music for the folks
    the ordinary people…
    who is main guards
    is not of my concern..
    its all an EGOGAME
    I look at the people
    not their position..
    my concern is about the mystics ..
    the real sannyasin
    who has become a master
    and not a security guard…

    I went to Poona first time in 81 and didn´t take sannyas because I couldn´t stand all these idiots at the ashram

    I fell in love with India and had no intention to go to America with a SHEELA as a boss…

    I remained in India and took sannyas in 85 among
    only Indian sannyasins
    with sw Maitreya at the ashram

    when Osho came back I became a MEERA
    and soon after he opened ´meera-arts-department`

    where I stayed in Poona is none of your business

    GARIMO

    YOU seem to have no conscience nor consciousness..

    harrasing people is not a gossip but a CRIME

    you talk non-sense.. you are not in your proper senses

    just THINKING

    you don´t live in REALITY
    just in your own made-up illusions…

    AND HALLUZINATIONS

    you are in a deep sleep

    WAKE UP !!!!!!!!

    MORNING HAS COME

  369. shantam prem says:

    Meera or harri om, may be the same person with two names…

    The points you are raising are perfect in nature. Most of us can feel that something fundamentally has gone wrong with the implimantation of His vision. Priesthood and corruption has taken over the teachings and work.

    But without showing the face, we make the shadows big. Few of us must take the stand and bear the consequences too. Will Osho kind of energy will be happy with our cowardliness?

    So my request is take the responsibility of what you see, specially, when you say, wake up morning has come!

    and Shanti for you-my facebook profile-

    http://www.facebook.com/shantam.astro

  370. meera says:

    ok shanti ..

    saw you
    you look sympathetic I have added you…

    welcome

  371. meera says:

    äh shantam…

    get totally mixed up here .. with all of you
    mixing me up with all kinds of strangers
    i never heard of

    Harrri omm.. never heard about…

  372. meera says:

    what shanti? she is your girlfreind or what.. ???!!
    shantam

    she hates RAJNEESH
    whom I adore

    he is an old friend of mine.. not my guru..
    but a beloved old friend
    whom I admire from my heart…
    have you ever met rajneesh..??!!
    . he is a toally innocent being

    believe it or not…

  373. Shanti says:

    Meera. The effects of the methamphetamine seem to be coming down… You have softened a bit… good for you.

    You say, I quote you: “I went to Poona first time in 81 and didn´t take sannyas because I couldn´t stand all these idiots at the ashram”
    Ahhh. So it is an old habit not liking people who do not seem quite so “spiritual”… The hippies bothered you dear? or was it the sexy atmosphere? Perhaps the lack of renunciation… chashram, they used to call it.

    So with Maytreyaji was better, More indian, yea, more spiritual?
    You do not remember people´s names? really? how convenient.

    So what is it that you do not like to day? what do you miss? darling.

  374. meera says:

    you are such a ´crack-pot´shanti
    projecting all your shit on others..

    your conclusions tell about yourself…
    a sex-suppressed hateful revengeful being´
    jealous..
    and you believe you belong to the white race which is superior…

    all the signs of a NAZI

    I was a hippie and a freak
    when I arrived in Poona
    and was shocked to meet so many
    stupid straights like you are….
    with all their pretense of being loving..
    deep down they were full of SHIT…

    with my 22 years I had a lot of sex
    and got a tripper very soon– quite painful

  375. Shanti says:

    so, dear it was very painful to have a lot of sex?… and tripping?
    So, how do you cope with the sexy, fully drugged atmosphere around rajneesh?
    I am not a guy… neither s straight, square person.. just myself.
    So, what is you do not like now?

  376. meera says:

    you must be an alcoholic ..
    because your mind is clouded with nonsense
    did you ever have a tripper..GONORREHA :? ?!!

    NO..?!its a disease,,, and diseases are painful .

    .not sex

    because you are SEX SUPPRESSED you
    THINK that
    SEX IS PAINFUL

    I know that you are not a guy..

    you are bitching like women who is not satisfied .

    so get your little ars up from your sofa and do some

    DYNAMIC MEDITATION

  377. Shanti says:

    This is getting Interesting. So, lets recapitulate. You got gonorrea in pune one because you had too much sex… unprotected, i assume. And then left the place because …too many rules, i assume.
    You were a free spirited soul who loved India because it was very “spiritual”… you know, Puja, bhajans and all those spiritual things.
    stayed with Maitreya at the ashram… because, now there were not too many rules. It was managed by Indians… even they did not followed their own rules, so groovy place to be.

    This I have got so far.

    So, what is it you do not like about the present day… miss the bhajans?

  378. meera says:

    yes :::India drove you mad… !!!

    protected sex was not a topic at that times…
    also not TOO MUCH SEX::
    JUST SEX ..
    YOU KNOW?!

    and I had no idea about bhajans…

    the hindusociety must have driven you insane..

    I pefered indian company
    because westerners are to childish
    not childlike
    but full of accumulated BULLSHIT

    so what are you doing NOW?

    admitting yourself to a mentalasylum
    because you became a follower of an indian SECT??!!!!

  379. Shanti says:

    ah, ah. I must admit your rhetoric abilities are not that polished.
    So, your innocent friend Rajneesh asked you to come and defend him a little, while he was away?
    You still do not answer my question about what is it you do not like today in pune.

  380. meera says:

    you are not answering MY QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!

    but tell me
    what is it that you like about Pune?

    boozing?
    party?
    finding boyfriends..SEX?????
    in other words ..fucking around..?! LOL

    or holy shanting in sufidance?

    you hate indians
    thats clear so far………..

  381. Shanti says:

    I do not hate Indians. In the same way that i do not hate Germans or British. I do not hate nationalities. I hate individuals.
    what do I like? I like meditating with hundreds of other seekers, i like the energy of the place, i like dancing. I like meeting with friends. I like relating in an honest, open way, I like doing groups, taking morning classes. But over all I like the energy of being with thousands of seekers, meditating and enjoying life… and all that under the inspiration of my beloved master Osho.
    what you do not like?

  382. garimo says:

    >>>GARIMO

    Are you screaming as you type Meera?
    I sorry, I can’t find the energy or much desire to exchange writings with you.
    In my mind, I have all ready dismissed what you have to say as hysterical
    and misinformed.

    Yet I’ll share that I do understand why some people get banned. Others not so much.
    I also understand that Osho Communes and now the resort have never been governed by people with their motives based in empathy and compassion. Among the subjects taught in the mystery school has always been authority and surrender. How to get and use it, and how to survive when you are without it. With that comes the banning tool.
    I understand there has never been drama free time in the commune/resort.

    Maybe the lessons taught & learned during the resort faze will become empathy and negotiation: connection rather than control?

    “When the love of power is overcome by the power of love, the world will know peace” – Jimi Hendrix

    -g

  383. meera says:

    I don´t like the masses
    the white sheep –
    they are against the individual
    and all for the mediocre crowd..

    they all depend in authorities

    they have no life of their own

    they are full of hate
    if anyone comes along who is not part
    of the massconsciousness
    because that shows them their own
    ignorance.

    they are not able to invent anything by themselfes
    they support the politician and priest
    to govern their lifes
    and to give them bread and games

    of course you are a racist shanti
    your post have proven it

    deep down you are conditioned
    to believe
    white people are better
    then black people

    you haven´t seen Indias beauty…

    you are one of the tourists
    blinded by selfimportance

    the resort is full of such westerners like you…

  384. meera says:

    yes garimo

    no need to defend the IDIOTS

    there is no exchange between you and me…

    you don´t get the point
    you keep on rationalising from your mind…

    banning people dosen´t show emphaty and compassion

    ITS IS A POWERGAME

    mercyless and cruel..

    done by EGOMANIACS

    you have not the slightest idea
    what a Mysteryschool is
    and mix it up with a
    CONCENTRATIONCAMP

    ´I have to shout.. because i know you are deaf…´OSHO

    as far as I´m concerned
    you can stick up your banning business
    wherever you want…

    take your drama
    and your AMRITO
    and go to HELL

  385. garimo says:

    I have a picture in my head of Meera pacing in her room flailing her arms around repeating he same thoughts over and over to people who aren’t there, and then shouting at me through her computer.

  386. meera says:

    see garimo
    how much you are projecting…

    and you are right..you are not there….

    you have no center

    did you ever hear about the ZENmaster
    throwing disciples out of the window
    3rd floor
    because he is making stupid remarks?!
    and jumping on him.. breaking his bones
    and shouting at him

    GOT IT?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    just imagine me as the
    ZENmaster MA TA SU

  387. Shanti says:

    Girls, girls…,let is not turn this Forum into a cat fight.
    Meera you make no sense the way your write. What is your mother tongue? where are you from?
    Perhaps we could talk in your own language.

  388. Shanti says:

    Seriously, Meera. what are you so angry about?!!!

  389. garimo says:

    Meera says:
    “GOT IT?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    I understand that you think I am projecting.
    I understand you say you think I am right and that I am not there.
    I understand you say I have no center.

    I understand you want me to imagine you a Zen Master Ma Ta Su, and you think of yourself
    as shouting, jumping and breaking bones.

    Have I missed anything? was there something more you wanted me to understand?

  390. meera says:

    garimo

    have you ever heard the sound of one hand clapping?

    if not… you missed….

  391. meera says:

    honest to god shanti..

    its all your projection…
    I´m NOT ANGRY

    if it dosen´t make sense to you is because
    you live in the mind
    and I live in

    no-mind

    only no-mind can ´understand´what

    NO-MIND IS

  392. Shanti says:

    ha, ha. It seems we will have to call back Anthony to get you off your megalomaniac trip. That is the problem with people who hang out with Ranjeesh: THEY ALSO START TO THINK THEY ARE GREAT… NO ANGER, NO MIND Just pure helping others.
    yea, you make me laugh my guts out…

  393. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    Meere no-mind brings silence but you seem to be mind-f * * king , please do come to no mind , for your own sake !

  394. meera says:

    no-mind means for you to SHUT -DOWN people

    you are mistaken…

    go and meditate more…pavitro..

    SHanti you are totally gone berserk..

    you have not the slightest glimpse of what meditation IS

    your life is full of noise.. bozzing.. hate.. jealousy…fight

    in short…

    YOU ARE THE MANIAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  395. shantam prem says:

    Meera, i have just heard a rumour, you are going with Rajneesh for silence retreat.
    A woman who roars like a lion, hate sheep is not willing to reveal her identity.
    Just pick up some pin up girl from millions of photos on net and simply say, Yes, here is Meera.

  396. meera says:

    just get lost
    shantam

    with your pin-up-girls

    and keep on ranting…..

    I´m not interested in you or your company

    your are NOT WITH OSHO!!!!!!!!

    you are conditioned by the christian curch

    a believer in all kind of lies…

    you are one of the white sheep
    paying politicians for ATOMBOMBS

    whate the HELL am I
    going to do with stupid people like you?

    there are very very few people who made the

    QUANTUM LEAP IN CONSCIOUSNESS

    the rest is just MEDIOCRE stupid MASSES

    as far as I´m concerned

    I have enough of you …..

    no more commentaries …from my side

    keep on bullshiting yourself….

  397. Shanti says:

    …and you are not ANGRY?!!
    My God I do not want to see you upset then… You will burn sannyas news.

    And you say you are with Osho… babe, you are so screwed up!
    You are so fucked up that you say Shantam has christian conditionings.. and the poor guy is Indian.
    So screwed up that you think THE Amrito is answering you here and start ranting against a poor Canadian guy.
    Darling, finally , you think Rajneesh is sweet and innocent. .. just read the posts he wrote before in this forum.
    My god… you make me smile…

  398. meera says:

    indians are mostly male chauvinistic…
    and it dosen´t matter if they are hindus or christians…

    CHAUVINIST IS CHAUVINIST
    and these people expect a certain behavior from women…

    damn them…

    and you shanti are jealous as hell..
    you keep on ranting with your ´fucking thing´…

    you keep on fucking about…. this and that…

    you have a ´fucking´-problem !

    you are NOT smiling at all…
    you are bitching……

    ITS YOU
    WHO IS SCREWING IN HERE

  399. Shanti says:

    beloved.. get yourself a psychiatrist.
    again. why are you so angry?!
    Because of the gonorrhea thing?

  400. amrito says:

    hahaha!!

    what a show! what a show!!

    Meera if the quality of Rajneesh’s fellow travellers are like u than….damnn!!!

    Actually he was pretty similar to u in his retarted responses on this forum, it showed very little intelligence indeed. He seems to love bragging about his years and years of silence in the himalayas.

    Its now very clear that they were years and years of a ticking time bomb nut-cracker which exploded into a horrible book full of childish wining!

    Meera, do a few groups (and I dont mean that you should lead those groups).

    Your keyboard’s lifespan must be taking a huge beating with all your CAPITAL letters!

    -Amrito

    (AND YES I’M THE CANADIAN AMRITO—not the other guy)

  401. Shanti says:

    yea, sweet and innocent this girl Meera, like her master Rajneesh… for their disciples you will know them…

  402. meera says:

    WOMEN ARE RIGHT-BRAIN HEMISPHERE PEOPLE, MEN ARE LEFT-BRAIN HEMISPHERED. Men have ruled women for centuries.

    FEW WOMEN ARE REVOLTING. But the amazing thing is that these are the same type of women. In fact, they are just like the men — rational, argumentative, Aristotelian.

    It is possible one day — just as communist revolution has succeeded in Russia and China — one day somewhere, maybe in America, THE WOMEN CAN SUCCEED AND OVERTHROW MEN. But by the time the woman will succeed, the woman will no more be a woman — she will have become left-hemisphered by that time.

    BECAUSE TO FIGHT, ONE HAS TO BE CALCULATIVE — and to fight with men you have to be like men: aggressive. That very aggressiveness is shown all over the world in women’s liberation. Women who have become part of that liberation movement are very aggressive. THEY ARE LOSING ALL FEMININENESS, ALL GRACE, all that comes out of intuition. Because if you have to fight with men, you have to learn the same trick; if you have to fight with men, you have to fight with the same techniques.

    FIGHTING WITH ANYBODY IS VERY DANGEROUS — because you become like your enemy. That is one of the greatest problems of human history. Once you fight with somebody, by and by, you have to use the same technique and the same way. Then the enemy may be defeated, but by the time he is defeated you have become your own enemy.

    STALIN IS MORE CZAR-LIKE THAN ANY CZAR, more violent than any Czar. Of course, it has to be so: to overthrow Czars, very violent people are needed, more violent than the Czar himself. Only they will become the revolutionaries, they will come out on top. By the time they reach, there they have become Czars themselves. And the society continues on the same way. Just superficial things change, deep down the same conflict remains.

    THE CONFLICT IS IN MAN. Unless it is resolved there, it cannot be resolved anywhere else. The politics is within you, it is between your two parts of the mind.

    OSHO
    Ancient Music in the Pines
    Ch #1: A Zen Story
    am in Buddha Hall

  403. Shanti says:

    Darling. Your case does not apply to this quote. You are more like an angry guy. Your lack of expertise arguing is not because you are a woman. it is because you are uneducated.
    I am a woman myself… and no problem.

  404. shantam prem says:

    Meera,
    Please, ask Rajneesh when it will be appropriate for you to reveal your identity?
    Normally it does not matter, people are free to express themselves, but someone like you with as big a mouth as lion’s roar, hits hard with the words like,Talibans hiding behind the caves and the veils!

    it is more civilised and proper that people who take a stand in open, must have the courage to dare to bare their face.

    You have mentioned that you don’t know Harri OM. Last few threads are full with his posts. Intelligent thoughts but pisses in the robe when it comes to revealing his identity.

  405. shantam prem says:

    PS- and don’t think that everybody is jealous of Rajneesh or people don’t like him.

    What so ever he is saying or doing, he is standing behind that.This act is worth all the appreciation.

    But people like you simply stink. You even write in his style, paraphasing the sentences are so similar that one of my friend has mentioned that may be rajneesh himself is writing under the name Meera.

    If it is not so… than let we all know who is this rebellious Ma.

  406. prem bubbie says:

    Meera Meera, on the wall, by what name do you want to be called? Rajnish? Sheela? Nazi? Someone please, give this “lady” her lithium !!!!! She stopped taking it for a while, look at the result !!!! I still think you’re Rajnish. Just when Rajnish bids farewell, this brain-tumoured person steps in. Coincidence?

  407. amrito says:

    the quote meera put up by Osho has been completely trashed by the capital letters!!

    this is exactly what religious idiots do, put capital letters in the words of enlightened beings! its not like Osho was yelling when he said “BECAUSE TO FIGHT, ONE HAS TO BE CALCULATIVE “…

    i criticized OIF for removing chapters and paragraphs from the Book of Wisdom, but atleast what they left was damaging towards individuals. But when I read these exact quotes of Osho’s by people like Meera whom decide to add their own italics to certain phrases—they completely damage everything!!

    i guess there always come a day when some follower vows to spread the “true” message of an enlightened being and completely ends up un-doing all the work the master ever did..

  408. amrito says:

    ***but atleast what they left was not* damaging towards individuals***

  409. meera says:

    shantam prem

    your BIG EGO is HURT

    I added you in facebook ..what more identiy do you want?

    and why do you want ?

    ..if you hate me..

    then what is the reason to ask for my identiy?

    I have stated very clearly
    that I don´t like the behavior of
    the ´resort people´banning my friend Rajneesh…

    and I was hammering on these POLITICIANS
    whom you are defending…

    in my eyes you are NOT a Sannyasins nor a friend or fellowtraveller
    banning other sannyasins is DISGUSTING
    these are the ways of the world..
    greedy politicians ..
    cunning jealous priesthood….

    you want to shut me down ..
    dominating and monopising me
    by telling me what I have to THINK
    and HOW I am supposed to TALK

    you never talked about
    what these ´officials ´have done….

    you have no feeling for your ´fellowtravellers´

    just defending the ´mangagement´
    to prove what a good old boy you are

    you are full of hate and rage…
    because of an inferioritycomplex

    I´m just a mirror
    of you ALL

    cheers

    meera

  410. meera says:

    Shanti

    these words of OSHO

    are FOR YOU

    YOU ARE THE WOMAN

    IN MENS POLITIC

  411. meera says:

    IN THE WORLD, THERE ARE AS MANY WORLDS AS THERE ARE PERSONS. Everybody is closed, into himself, and goes on projecting things out of these noises, goes on hearing things which have not been uttered, goes on seeing things which are not there, and goes on believing that whatsoever he is seeing is true.

    WHATSOEVER YOU HAVE SEEN UP TO NOW IS NOT TRUE, IT CANNOT BE — because your eyes are not functioning as pure receptivities, they are functioning more as protectors. You go on seeing things that you want to see, you go on believing in things that you want to believe. HUMANITY LIVES IN A SORT OF NEUROSIS.

    I have heard:
    Once a man asked a psychiatrist, ‘In simple, everyday terms, without any of that scientific jargon, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PSYCHOTIC AND A NEUROTIC?’
    ‘Well,’ said the psychiatrist, after thinking a moment, ‘You could put it this way. A psychotic thinks two plus two equals five. The neurotic knows perfectly well that two plus two equals four — but it worries the hell out of him.’

    There are TWO TYPES OF PEOPLE in the world: the PSYCHOTIC and the NEUROTIC.

    THE PSYCHOTIC HAS ARRIVED, he has got the conclusions. HE IS THE DOGMATIC PERSON. He says, “Only my religion is the true religion.” He says, “Only my God is the true God.” He is absolutely certain.

    He is very dangerous. HIS CERTAINTY IS NOT BECAUSE OF HIS EXPERIENCE; his certainty is because deep down he is very much uncertain, in deep conflict, turmoil. How to avoid it? He clings to a conclusion. HE WILL NOT LISTEN TO ANYTHING GOING AGAINST HIS IDEOLOGY. He may be a communist, or a Catholic, or a Hindu, or a Jaina — it makes no difference. But the psychotic person has already arrived, HE HAS CONCLUSIONS.

    HE IS NO MORE GROWING, he is no more learning, he is no more listening — HE LIVES OUT OF HIS CONCLUSIONS. He of course misses the life, because life is a process, there is no conclusion to it. Life is always in the middle, there is no beginning and no end to it. And life is tremendously vast.

    ALL DOGMAS CAN HAVE A CERTAIN TRUTH ABOUT THEM, BUT NO DOGMA IS THE TRUTH — cannot be. Life is so big that no dogma can comprehend it in its totality.

    SO A REALLY INTELLIGENT PERSON IS HESITANT. He is never dogmatic. He is ready to learn, ready to listen.

    So many people come here. Whenever I see somebody who while listening to me is trying to compare notes with his conclusions, I know he’s in deep trouble. AND I CAN SEE FROM YOUR FACES whether you are comparing notes or listening to me. Sometimes you nod your head; you say, “Right, you are perfectly right, this is also my principle.” You agree with me, not because you are listening to me. In fact, you are happy because you feel I am agreeing with you.

    Sometimes your head says, “No.” You may not be even aware that what you are doing. It may be just unconscious. But the gesture is bringing something from your unconscious. You say, “NO, I CANNOT AGREE TO THIS. THIS IS AGAINST MY CONCLUSION. THIS DOESN’T FIT WITH ME.” Then you are not listening, YOU ARE PSYCHOTIC. You may not be in much trouble and you may not need a psychiatrist yet, but that doesn’t matter much. It is only a question of degrees. Any day you can be in a psychiatric hospital. You are getting ready for it — preparing.

    And then there is THE NEUROTIC PERSON. HE’S CONTINUOUSLY IN CONFLICT — EVEN SMALL THINGS HE CANNOT DECIDE. The psychotic who has decided even ultimate things, and the neurotic who cannot decide even small things. What dress to wear today? Have you watched women standing there before their cupboards, so much puzzled? They bring one saree and put it back — and they bring another and put back… What dress to wear today?….

    BOTH ARE IN TROUBLE: one who has decided for ultimate things — he has stopped learning; and one who cannot decide for trivia — cannot learn, because he is in such a hell, in such a confusion.

    IN MY VILLAGE, just in front of my house, LIVES A GOLDSMITH. He is the sort of person you will call NEUROTIC. He will lock his door, few steps he will go, and will come again and shake the lock — just to see whether he has locked it or not.
    It has become a joke in the whole town. He may be in the market and somebody will say, “Have you locked your door or not?”
    And now it is impossible. He will stop the thing. Whatsoever he is doing, he will say, “Wait, I will be coming,” and he will run back.
    One day he was taking his bath in the river and somebody said something about the door. He jumped out. Naked he was running towards his home.
    I have watched him. He will come back again and again and again. It has become almost impossible for him to do anything else. The lock…
    Just think about his misery.

    Ordinarily, you are both. These are extreme cases. Ordinarily you are both. IN CERTAIN WAYS YOU ARE PSYCHOTIC: YOU HAVE DECIDED THE ULTIMATE, that Jesus is the only son of God, the only begotten son — THIS IS PSYCHOSIS! Then what about Buddha and what about Lao Tzu and what about Zarathustra? In certain matters you have decided, and in certain matters you are completely in confusion. A PART OF YOUR BEING IS NEUROTIC AND A PART OF YOUR BEING IS PSYCHOTIC. And because of this madness you cannot hear the ancient music which is always there.

    MEDITATION IS TO GET OUT OF YOUR PSYCHOSIS AND TO GET OUT OF YOUR NEUROSIS. It is simply to slip out of them, so you don’t have any ultimate conclusion with you on one hand; and on the other hand you are not worried about trivia — you are simply silent. You are simply being yourself — with no decision, with no conclusion, with no center, and not worried about small things.

    If you can be in a state where no thought interferes with your being, no thought passes by — suddenly you are overwhelmed!

    OSHO
    Ancient Music in the Pines
    Ch #9: You have my marrow

  412. meera says:

    YES, YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO BE A LITTLE MORE DIPLOMATIC — that will save a lot of trouble. But that will save you also from truth, remember.

    TRUTH BRINGS MANY TROUBLES. It is bound to be so, because people live in lies. And when you bring truth into the world, their lies, their lives rooted in lies, react. A great antagonism is bound to happen. And people as they are, in their unconsciousness, cannot live without lies.

    Friedrich Nietzsche is right. He says, “Please, don’t destroy people’s lies, their illusions, because IF YOU DESTROY THEIR ILLUSIONS THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO LIVE AT ALL, they will collapse.” They will not find anything worth living for. They live because of the illusions, the illusions keep on giving them hope. THEY LIVE IN THE TOMORROW WHICH NEVER COMES. They live in their ambitions which are never fulfilled. But whether fulfilled or not, through those ambitions and desires and illusions and expectations and hopes, they can drag their lives up to their graves. If you destroy their illusions, they may simply drop dead here and now, because then there is no point in living.

    And whenever you think of suicide, remember, WHY YOU ARE THINKING OF SUICIDE. Some hope has turned sour, some expectation has turned into a frustration, some desire has proved futile. You have become aware — even in your unawareness, a little ray of awareness has penetrated you. You have seen, maybe only for a moment, a glimpse, just like lightning in the dark night. For a moment all was light, and YOU HAVE SEEN THAT THE WAY YOU ARE LIVING IS FALSE. And there is no fulfillment if you live in a false way. Immediately the idea of suicide arises in you.

    MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE COMMITTING SUICIDE TODAY, more than ever. More people commit suicide in the West than in the East. It looks very strange, very illogical — it should not be so. Because in the East, people are starving but they don’t commit suicide. In the West, they have all that man has always desired. People have two houses — one in the city, one in the mountains or on the sea-beach, in the country. They have two-car garages… and all kinds of gadgets that technology has made available.

    For the first time, West has succeeded in being affluent — but more people are committing suicide there than in the East. Why? — for the simple reason that EAST CAN STILL HOPE, AND WEST IS BECOMING AWARE THAT THERE IS NO HOPE. When you don’t have something, you can hope for it; when you have it, how can you hope any more? The thing is there, and nothing has happened through it. You have the money, you have a good wife, children, husband, prestige, respectability — all. And suddenly you become aware in this affluence, that deep down you are hollow, poor, a beggar — and nothing else. THE WHOLE EFFORT OF ACHIEVING ALL THESE THINGS HAS FAILED: things are there, but no fulfillment has happened through them. This is the cause of more suicide in the West.

    In the West, too, MORE AMERICANS COMMIT SUICIDE THAN ANYBODY ELSE — because they are the most affluent, they are the most in a state of shock: “All the hopes for which we have lived for centuries are fulfilled, and yet nothing is fulfilled.” And this is going to be more and more: MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WILL COMMIT SUICIDE.

    Friedrich Nietzsche is true: “THE ORDINARY MAN CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT ILLUSIONS. Don’t take his illusions away from him!”

    AND THE MASTER EXACTLY DOES THAT: HE TRIES TO TAKE YOUR ILLUSIONS AWAY. He creates a situation in which, ordinarily, you would commit suicide. But if you are fortunate enough to have a communion with a Master, the same situation creates sannyas. It is the same situation, the SAME crisis!

    This is my observation: that TRUE SANNYAS HAPPENS ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE COME TO THE VERGE OF SUICIDE.

    WHEN YOU SEE THAT THE OUTSIDE WORLD IS FINISHED, then there are only two alternatives left: either commit suicide and be finished, because there is nothing anymore to live for — or turn in. ‘The outer world has failed, now let us try the inner’: that is sannyas. SANNYAS AND SUICIDE ARE TWO ASPECTS OF THE SAME COIN. If you are focused and obsessed with the outside, then suicide; if you are a little loose, flexible, then sannyas.

    BUT A MASTER CANNOT BE DIPLOMATIC. He has to create this crisis in which suicide is possible — and also sannyas, also transformation, also a new birth. But new birth is possible only when you die to the old, when you die to the past….

    BUT MASTERS SIMPLY CALL A SPADE A SPADE. Their truth is utterly nude — whether you like it or not is not the point. They cannot compromise with your likings. IF THEY START COMPROMISING WITH YOUR LIKINGS, THEY CAN’T BE OF ANY HELP TO YOU. To compromise with you means to compromise with your sleep, your unconsciousness, your mechanicalness. To compromise with you, means to stop waking you up. That is not possible. Hence, I cannot be diplomatic….

    PEOPLE LISTEN TO ONLY THAT WHICH THEY WANT TO LISTEN — otherwise they fall asleep. At least they can think of thousand other things. And that too is a kind of sleep, because you are no more listening.

    I HAVE TO BE HARD! I have to be as hard as possible — because your sleep is deep and it has to be shattered. I have to hit on your head with a hammer. Otherwise you are not going to wake up. For centuries you have been asleep, sleep has become your nature. You have forgotten what awareness is, what to be awake means.

    OSHO
    Ah, This!
    Ch #3: I am higher

  413. shantam prem says:

    I added you in facebook ..what more identiy do you want?
    and why do you want ?
    Sorry, Meera, i have not open facebook for a week. When i see this issue is resolved.

    It is not about your identity, may be i am fixed with this belief that when people come forward, they come with all their integrity. Showing the face is this crystalised identity.

    When we raise the issue connected with our master Osho and His vision, we are not commiting any crime, on the contrary i feel it is a meditation, it is a prayer to take the dead leaves away.
    For this my insistance is on the identity. Real tigers not just paper tigers!

    ..if you hate me..
    then what is the reason to ask for my identiy?

    Sorry, Meera….why i should hate you. For what.?

    I don’t even hate Amrito/Jayesh, whose leadership i wish to see vanish one day. The people who turned resort out of ashram, for me and for many it is like creating a prostitute out of a senstive girl!

    Hate ?
    Truthfully, i feel hate only in the normal man-woman love hate connections and i am thankful to feel hate too.
    Hate without destuction is like a river on the stones, rain with thunder storm.
    Rest is all a warrior’s path on the foot hills of mysticism.

  414. meera says:

    ok shantam..read this one…

    LOVE IS ONE OF THE GREATEST EXPERIENCES IN LIFE — and many miss it. They may reproduce children, they may have married many times — but love is a totally different phenomenon. IT NEEDS A GREAT SENSITIVITY, IT NEEDS A SOUL. And when time passes, and energies starts waning, and death comes closer, you are in a panic.

    THAT IS EXACTLY MY FEELING reading your question, Sudhiro — that you are in a panic.

    Two little old ladies were chatting over the backyard fence. The first one boasted, “I went out with old man Cain last night, and I had to slap him twice.”
    “To stop him?” asked her friend.
    “No,” she giggled, “to start him!”

    But it is good that you have come here. If you cannot start, we can slap you! Something is always possible. The one thing that you need is: RATHER THAN SEARCHING FOR A SOUL MATE, BECOME A SOUL — become more conscious.

    WHEN LOVE IS UNCONSCIOUS IT IS ONLY LUST AND NOTHING ELSE — a beautiful name for an ugly thing. When love is conscious, only then it is love. But how many people are conscious? WHEN LOVE IS MEDITATIVE, ONLY THEN IT IS LOVE.

    AND A MEDITATIVE LOVE WILL ATTRACT A MEDITATIVE LOVE ENERGY. You get only that which you deserve, remember it! — neither less nor more. YOU ALWAYS GET EXACTLY THAT WHICH YOU DESERVE. Existence is very just and very fair. So if you are not getting a soul mate, just by searching frantically for a soul mate is not going to help you. Rather look in.

    You are missing something in you — YOU ARE MISSING LOVE QUALITIES. You are not tender, you are not sensitive, you are not conscious. And you don’t know how to give without asking anything in return. YOUR LOVE IS A DEMAND, THERE IS A CONDITION TO IT. It is a kind of exploitation. You want to use the other’s body. And no woman is ever happy if she is used — she hates it.

    MILLIONS OF WOMEN HATE THEIR HUSBANDS for the simple reason that they feel used — as if they are just machines for your sexual lust to be relieved so that you can have a good sleep in the night. NO WOMAN CAN EVER RESPECT YOU IF SHE FEELS SHE IS BEING USED. Each being is an end unto himself.

    NEVER USE A WOMAN, NEVER USE A MAN, NEVER USE ANYBODY. Nobody is a means for your purposes. Respect! Love is a sharing. It is not using the other, it is not trying to snatch something from the other. On the contrary, it is giving wholeheartedly for no reason at all, just for the sheer joy of giving.

    AND THEN SUDDENLY YOU WILL FIND ONE DAY you have found someone with whom your energies are in harmony, in accord. And it is a beautiful experience even to find a single person with whom you are in accord. And here you can find many persons with whom you are in accord.

    YOU CAN’T IMAGINE MY ECSTASY — because I am in accord with all of my sannyasins, in deep accord, a tremendous harmony. Then love reaches its highest peak. It is no more sexual, it is pure prayer. AND WHEN LOVE IS PRAYER, YOU HAVE FOUND THE SOUL MATE.

    BUT IF YOUR LOVE IS LUST, YOU CAN’T FIND A SOUL MATE, you can only find some woman’s body. And the body is not going to help fulfill your longing. YOU NEED ATTUNEMENT WITH THE SOUL, with the inner being, with the interiority of the woman or of the man. At least with one person if it happens, great joy arises. And then when you know the art, it can happen with many more people. And that’s what friendship is.

    AND MY EFFORT HERE IS TO CREATE A COMMUNE where thousands of souls are in such deep friendship, in such love — as if they are all soul mates. We can release such great light into the world through that energy field! We can start such a revolution in the world, WE CAN IGNITE SUCH FIRE, THAT IT WILL GO ON BURNING IN THE FUTURE, down the centuries, helping people to be transformed, to be reborn.

    OSHO
    The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha
    Vol 7, Ch #4: A real man is unpredictable
    am in Buddha Hall

  415. Atmo says:

    Somebody remembers himself in this branch? Or at least what this topic about? Rajneesh told you goodbye many days ago. What’s the meaning to talk about him? Rajneesh stoped to write in this topic, topic is not about Rajneesh. If you don’t remember yourself, how can you criticize someone else?

  416. meera says:

    TOPIC IS RAJNEESH

    and the banning business

    done by those ´officials´
    at the resort in POONA
    whom you adore so much
    for sucking your money
    and your energy…

  417. Atmo says:

    meera // Oct 17, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    You & Rajneesh you both are heroes of Servantes’s novel. But who of you is Don Quixote and who is Sancho Panza? Tilting at windmills dont forget Servantes inside.

    Topic is questions to Amrito. Do you have some more questions or may be you can answer some questions? No, you fight for your Don Quixote.

  418. Shanti says:

    ahhhh. baby… Meera, darling. If you are my mirror then I must be the monster from the black lagoon, doped with methamphetamine, and with delusions of grandeur.

  419. meera says:

    aaaaahhhhhhh….finally you got it ..shantiBABY.. congratiolations

    and you are the windmills Atmo…HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA

  420. Shanti says:

    you know what darling… you are a pain in the ass.
    So you are pissed because your friend Rajnish can not slaw walk in the ashram?
    great, keep being upset. He will see his dear samadhi the day of the doom. because he will never be allowed back. and it is great. the less fucked up people around the better.

  421. meera says:

    `ahhhh. baby… Meera, darling. If you are my mirror then I must be the monster from the black lagoon, doped with methamphetamine, and with delusions of grandeur.

    CERTAINLY YOU ARE I T ´SHANTI´ HAHAHAHAAA

  422. meera says:

    keep in f*cking around

    at the resort…

    with your gang people

    lets see …………

    where you finally
    gonna end up

    ha ha haaaaaaa

  423. meera says:

    is this your intro at facebook?Shanti

    “To relate is one of the greatest things of life: to relate means to love, to relate means to share. But before you can share, you must have. And before you can love you must be full of love, overflowing with love…” Osho

  424. Shanti says:

    no babe… you are confusing me with yourself. you are the loving creature.

  425. meera says:

    now you got it shanti BABY

  426. Shanti says:

    still the slow- walking bozzo will not make it into the ashram…
    you can keep wining and crying…

  427. shantam prem says:

    Meera and Shanti….
    cannot we read this beautiful quotation from the discourse shared by Meera in one of the above posts.

    “AND MY EFFORT HERE IS TO CREATE A COMMUNE where thousands of souls are in such deep friendship, in such love — as if they are all soul mates. We can release such great light into the world through that energy field! We can start such a revolution in the world, WE CAN IGNITE SUCH FIRE, THAT IT WILL GO ON BURNING IN THE FUTURE, down the centuries, helping people to be transformed, to be reborn.”

  428. meera says:

    shantam

    Shanti is NOT MY SOULMATE

    dosen´t look like shanti has any soul

    she is one of the soulless ZOMBIES in this world

    spreading hatered an violence….
    whereever they go…

    there is no need for me
    TO COMPROMISE
    with such people

    as a matter of fact
    I never compromise with anybody

    there are many beautiful souls in the world

    no need to waste time
    with
    INHUMAN
    stupid CREATURES

    meera

  429. meera says:

    let the idiots at the resort
    suck the money from other idiots

    and let them fuck around in your India country…

    after all they have a better money currency

    and forget about OSHO

  430. Shanti says:

    no need to waste time
    with
    INHUMAN
    stupid CREATURES

    this is just pure love.
    You are more screwed up than you think. Just read what you write.

  431. meera says:

    Osho
    dosen´t love cunning priests
    and third rate inhuman politicians

  432. Shanti says:

    babe. the only reason why i keep answering to you here is so that you do not jump to the other thread where we are having intelligent conversations.

  433. Atmo says:

    Shanti
    The only reason you keep answering – you can not stop your mind moving, you need someone to fight. I dont know how long ypu’ve been siiting at osho’s feet but you still is not standing on your own.

  434. meera says:

    HAHAHAAA Atmo

    good someone is telling that idiot….

  435. meera says:

    ok..Shanti…

    you are so eager to have a conversation with me…
    I´m going to open a new thread soon..

    its all about
    WOMEN
    and
    HOW WE
    are going to save the world

    its a literary labyrinth….

    only for EXbs .. extra-bright—–

    THE INTELLIGENZIA

    who is gonna rule this world

    instead of third rate politicians

    then you can have an intelligent conversation…

    but pls keep out with your inhuman sarcastic cynical remarks

    don´t need more stupid people
    to f*ck around in my life
    there are already enough idiots
    destroying the world

    ok BABE?!

    thanks

    cheers

    love

    meera

  436. garimo (it's swami) says:

    Ah Meera, Sorry to delay examining your question. I was on the road for the past 4 days and am now home again.
    But you have asked:

    >garimo

    >have you ever heard the sound of one hand clapping?

    >if not… you missed….

    As I consider your comment it feels for me like a cunning entrapment, and I think we all know No-mind is not where such a violent strategy comes from, so I am unable/unwilling to be open and trusting with/of you.

    It makes me wonder; Do you really think you are in a position to validate if anyone’s hand has ever clapped or not? Are you just throwing out no-sense stuff you’ve heard so you can appear knowing while swirling in confusion.

    ‘Cuz if you think tossing out some zen koan that Osho has elaborated on is going to be some mind stopping event. You’ve missed. Without trust there’s no connection.

    -garimo
    ——————————————————
    This email came today from “mySamasati”

    “When awareness joins with your ears
    then listening happens
    when awareness joins with your eyes
    then seeing happens
    when awareness joins with your hands
    then touching happens …”
    Osho

  437. garimo says:

    {This post may show up a coupl times, I tried hanging my name to add Sw. and it didn’t post}

    Ah Meera, Sorry to delay examining your question. I was on the road for the past 4 days and am now home again.
    But you have asked:

    >garimo

    >have you ever heard the sound of one hand clapping?

    >if not… you missed….

    As I consider your comment it feels for me like a cunning entrapment, and I think we all know No-mind is not where such a violent strategy comes from, so I am unable/unwilling to be open and trusting with/of you.

    It makes me wonder; Do you really think you are in a position to validate if anyone’s hand has ever clapped or not? Are you just throwing out no-sense stuff you’ve heard so you can appear knowing while swirling in confusion.

    ‘Cuz if you think tossing out some zen koan that Osho has elaborated on is going to be some mind stopping event. You’ve missed. Without trust there’s no connection.

    -garimo
    ——————————————————
    This email came today from “mySamasati”

    “When awareness joins with your ears
    then listening happens
    when awareness joins with your eyes
    then seeing happens
    when awareness joins with your hands
    then touching happens …”
    Osho

  438. garimo says:

    couple times
    changeing name…

  439. meera says:

    garimo

    if you consider ZENmasters as violent..

    then you are in the wrong show…

    a Zenmaster hits hard
    out of compassion…

  440. meera says:

    WHO IS OSHO?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Osho has disappeared

    into

    HIS

    people

    not in any cunning therapist-priesthood
    or greedy worldly politicians

  441. garimo says:

    >>if you consider ZENmasters as violent..
    >>then you are in the wrong show…

    Meera,
    Again I understand that you are telling me I am wrong.

    I also understand ideas of wrong and right that you wish to control with are not strategies that come from a No-Mind space, that it is our mind that makes such judgments. Our minds usefulness is for such things.

    If you are considering Zen Masters, You’d notice they have developed some relationship of trust with their students. Master and student have understood and agreed to their relationship. Without the agreement no such relationship exists.
    So yes, I experience you as verbally violent, cunning but not clever and mostly phony. I do not experience you as a Zen Master, mostly because I have the impression there is more to a zen master than hitting.
    But that’s just observation on my part. Acts of compassion look and feel much different to me than what you’ve offered here..
    But you’re free to think and do whatever works for you. Freedom is all there is.

    It may not be important to you but I do wonder if how you present yourself is working for you?

    Do you feel heard? Are you connecting with what is alive in you, or reacting to rejection?

    - sw. garimo

    again:

    “When awareness joins with your ears
    then listening happens
    when awareness joins with your eyes
    then seeing happens
    when awareness joins with your hands
    then touching happens …”
    Osho

  442. meera says:

    dearest garimo

    Zenmasters where always visited by strangers
    and many people left
    because they expected something else
    from a ZENmaster..
    not such an ordinary person….

    and of course for the outsider
    it looks very violent..
    the poor fellow had come to ask a question
    and was thrown out of the window..

    if you think <i´m too hard
    its because yourself is hard and merciless..

    yes wrong because
    you come here with certain expectations
    as a matter of fact
    its you
    who wants to be in controll of others

    judging them..

    exactly like your friends
    these idiots at the resort

    I´m just mirroring you

    thats totally different

    a hollow bamboo

  443. garimo says:

    “when awareness joins with your eyes
    then seeing happens”

    Meera,
    If you were to see and be aware of what I have written.

    You would have noticed, I have only been speaking of me. I have stated nothing of you.

    I have spoken of what I understand, my impressions, my observations, how things look and feel to me.
    I have not said YOU are this or YOU are that… Everything has been about me, and you can believe me when I say it’s much easier to just call people dismissive names that describe what one’s inner vision/process is.

    Can you say the same? Is your awareness directed inward or scattered outward?

    It appears to me you go on and on telling me I’m wrong. When I know you are not with me inside of me and can not possibly know anything about me.

    I see you say ” you come here with certain expectations”
    I think “This is bullshit. What is in me can not be known by you.”

    It’s possible you might or might not be able to make intelligent guesses about me. But I have not noticed you checking to see if any of your assumtions are correct or not.

    It seems to me you’re being unable to accept my thoughts and how I experience things… So I only feel them being rejected and not considered, which doesn’t make for much of a meaningful connection with me. Why should I care if you think I am right or wrong? Do you somehow get that I do or should care?

    >>if you think i´m too hard
    its because yourself is hard and merciless..

    I did not think you were hard.
    I said ” I was experiencing you as verbally violent, cunning but not clever and mostly phony.”

    Again stating my minds experience… that which is alive in me at the moment. (I don’t mind having a mind)

    It’s my internal process. I did not project it onto you and say you are stupid or anything like that. I stated how I was experiencing what was presented to me.

    I see nothing familiar in the mirror.
    I do not see a person able to connect and hear what is being said to them.

    Where you see a hollow bamboo flowing with energy, I see rocks being thrown.

    -sw. garimo

    “Buddhas don’t save Buddhas. If you use your mind to look for a Buddha, you won’t see the Buddha. As long as you look for a Buddha somewhere else, you’ll never see that your own mind is the Buddha. Don’t use a Buddha to worship a Buddha. And don’t use the mind to invoke a Buddha.” Buddhas don’t recite sutras.” Buddhas don’t keep precepts.” And Buddhas don’t break precepts. Buddhas don’t keep or break anything. Buddhas don’t do good or evil.”

    By Bodhi-dharma
    Translated into English by Red Pine, 1987
    http://www.e-sangha.com/alphone/dmhml-e.html

  444. Shanti says:

    garimo… thank you for keeping this meera rajneesh accomplice here engaged with you. otherwise she would have been bothering us over there.
    my greatfulness

  445. garimo says:

    …”just callpeople dismissive names that describe what”…

    “that” should be “than” = big difference in meaning I think.

  446. meera says:

    SHANTI
    is trying to impress men at the other thread
    she is constantly advertising
    how much educated she is

    HAHAHAHAHAHAA

    garimo…

    did people tell you
    you were wrong when you were a child?!
    and did you hate people for that
    and trying to find wrongs
    with them
    calling them bad etc?..

    if you are a ´real´sannyasin of osho .
    .not just a devotee of the management…

    I suggest you do 21 days
    dynamic meditation
    to get rid of all this SHIT accumulated

    quit your job and your security
    and walk out into the world..
    you have nothing to lose
    except you chains

    don´t hide behind mummys apron…

    with love
    meera

  447. garimo says:

    Meera,
    Just to remind you of what I said:

    “I do not see a person able to connect and hear what is being said to them.”

    I’m not interested in your notions of how you think I should be different.

    When you are able to discuss how YOU relate to things, how YOU are effected by the actions of others… why YOU would like things differently, how YOUR life would be enhansed if you got what you wanted.

    I will have energy for you again. When your story is about YOU and not about what is outside of YOU, then I’ll feel like It’s not just wasted energy.
    …………………
    Sorry Shanti, I’ve no energy for the meera thing today. It’s all yours. This morning I’m feeling like I’d be easier to hang with a box of rocks.

    g

    -g

  448. Shanti says:

    I understand babe… tanks anyway

  449. sam.ba. says:

    OIF = NWO

    Black Pyramids

    AMRITO = the real KILLER of OSHO

  450. meera says:

    NOW garimo

    what is it
    what you believe
    I want?

    how do you conclude
    I want something?…………………………….

    again ::::it is ALL your projection..

    because YOU want something…!

    so start with yourself..::::::::::::::::::

    WHAT IS IT
    THAT YOU WANT
    FROM EXISTENCE????

  451. Chetna says:

    OMG-who has brained washed Meera so much??

    Not getting involved…..this place is loosing its plot

  452. Kranti says:

    Who else Chetna.. So called Osho’s Successor.. You are yet to see even bigger stuff in other threads.. Osho himself is being dragged down to a level you wouldnt have conceived of..

  453. meera says:

    HAHAHAAA

    IF YOU MEET BUDDHA IN THE WAY

    KILL HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  454. Shanti says:

    I like the idea meera.. why don´t you do it with rajneesh

  455. shantam prem says:

    Shanti, inform me please, when Meera will create Breaking news.

  456. Deep says:

    rajneesh says…

    even your girlfriend mentioned secretly to me…
    that perhaps i would be better than you…
    at you know what…
    and she would prove her point !!

    atleast i am glad be able to help you somewhere
    where you may appear to be lacking…

    anything for a friend or a girlfriend of a friend”

    no points for anyone guessing
    what anthony was thinking…
    obviouly fucking !!!

    any guess perhaps
    what rajneesh was thinking…
    intelligent arguing !!!
    @ Swami Rajneesh
    HaHa Ha Ha….
    Hilarious….

    Marvellous Awesome..
    Superbly Intelligent…

    @ Anthony…
    Have you ever heard of a thing like Paradigm Shift…Specially Psychological Paradigm Shiftings..
    Mr. Psychoanalyst..; Mr. Psychologist or So….who ever you are dear..

    It’s one of the finest example that I recently encountered ..regarding Psychological Contrast..

    And Thanks to All of you..such a great entertainment..
    Now My Paradigm of OSHO Commune and Resort culture is changed..

    Even There are the same people…who lives outside the commune..
    And The same politics..

    Thanks Sannyasnews..
    I would love to celebrate If tehre is so called Lovefest happens whether at Commune or outside and you all come there..

  457. saho says:

    I read no mention in amrito’s response re the work that was done to edit and change his original audio recordings

  458. Deep says:

    Kranti // Oct 7, 2009 at 9:42 am
    One last post to Anthony..

    We discussed , debated so much in the last few months.. But i never saw the buttons of an awakened being pushed so much ..

    It was SUPERB FUN how the buttons of an awakened man can get pushed like this ..

    Osho always talks about the story of a person who lived in Himalays for 15 years and when he came down how someone stepped on his foot and how went wild..

    Now i have seen a real life example..

    Nice Elaboration and findings By Kranti…
    Humbly Pointed Out…..
    In Graceful manner..An Eye-opener to some unettiqueted & rude people..

  459. Deep says:

    Anthony Thompson // Oct 7, 2009 at 5:27 pm
    [To Rajnish) see what i mean…just keep talking and your enlightenment is more and more obvious.

    Very well said Anthony