Osho Park in Pune Causing Local Unrest

Osho Teerth Polluiton Problems upset local residents
SannyasNews reporters

The Osho Teerth Park was created by the commune from a swamp back in the early nineties. It was transformed into a Japanese zen garden with stone bridges, bamboo trees, stone benches, cement busts of Boddhisatva, bird houses, etc. The polluted water flowing through the area was purified naturally using holding ponds with selected plants.

Sadly at present the water flowing through the nullah (stream) has again become polluted according to “Intelligent Pune”, the local on line newpsaper this week.

(It also needs to be said that The Osho Teerth Park has inspired the Pune Municipal Corporation to simulate such gardens through the city of Pune since it’s creation in the 1990′s).

However local people in the Sant Gadge Maharaj Bastir area are complaining that in the latest monsoon knee level water entered their houses due to blockages at the intersection with the Osho Teerth, and part of the area became a mosquito invested wasteland.

Residents in the area complain that despite protests no efforts have been made to clean up the nullah.

The Ward officer for the area, Shree Ram Salvekar, says the nullah outside the commune was cleaned by his department a month ago, Unfortunately a screen installed by the Osho people is still blocking the nullah with waste and it overflows backwards from that point.

The officer insists that the nullah inside the Osho Commune is the responsibility of commune staff but this has not been efficient of late. Attempts to reach the commune for comment have failed according to “Intelligent Pune”.

This seems to us at sannyasnews a paradox. Do the commune not have the resources to clean this matter up? Where has the tradition of genuine volunteering gone, which has been replaced by local labour? It seems it is time to restart this tradition of volunteering which was based on the love of Osho, and his commune, in which work itself was transformed into an act of love.

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103 Responses to Osho Park in Pune Causing Local Unrest

  1. shantam prem says:

    Thanks God, sannyasnews is issuing an appeal.

  2. Prem Abhay says:

    Nullah or nala essential means an open sewer. So many times I sat on a seat watching the trees and bamboos sway around Buddha Hall. Unfortunately the crackling of the bamboos did not drown out the annoying introductory video coming from the Visitors Centre. What particularly annoyed me was the reference to the pristine stream that flowed passed the resort. Of course with Osho’s guidance a series of drainage ponds provided a novel and efficient cleaning mechanism. However over the years of transformation into a supposed 5-star resort, the return of the natural flow of the sewer began to unmask the murky truth.

    No doubt a lack of care of the sewer has contributed to increased contamination of the resorts wells. This would also have contributed to the problem of excessive clogging of the filters at the wells. However it should be noted that the main reason for permanent removal of these filters was excessive build-up of calcium carbonate. (No need to take calcium supplements if you drink the resorts water!)

    Was the well filter problem intractable? Perhaps periodic cleaning would have been sufficient. Maybe the filters needed to be of a higher gauge of mesh (bigger holes to let more rubbish through). Another possibility would have been to consider a different type of filter. But no, the resort took the financially efficient option of permanent removal. Hence all the rubbish that clogged up the primary filter was free to travel on through the system. Of course as it does so, it leaves filters further on in the system to try and deal with the problem. It also means the any purification system will be less effective. For example, it is hard for UV light to kill micro-organisms as the light does not so effectively penetrate the ‘murky’ or turbid water. Also, the chlorine will breakdown as it interacts with particulates (muck), rather than attacking the intended micro-organisms. It was also unfortunate that for some reason the old (and still functioning) water treatment system had a central filtration system that was after the central purification system. Hence, water from the well had no filtration whatsoever prior to being supposedly purified.

    Of course in the new water treatment system that lies hidden in the dark unknown recesses below the grand new auditorium/hotel/kitchen complex, the charcoal based large central filter (the size of a small room) was found during the commissioning phase to take out the added chlorine. Residual chlorine is needed so that the purified water remains that way as it travels to the (end-user) drinking stations. The grand new kitchen was opened. Much fanfare surrounded the opening of the new meditation auditorium. Yet unbeknownst to all but a few was the fact that water (without pre-filtration at the wells) passed through a brand new 5-star water purification system with a brand new central filter that was never turned on.

    I do wonder about this issue of it taking out all the chlorine. Presumably this means that the central filter was positioned after the central purification system. However I am wondering why this filter was not positioned before the central purification system. This would have meant that the water was filtered prior to purification, and that the added chlorine (for purification) was not removed. Anyhow the end result is that the problem was ignored and two stages of filtration were removed. This only left the filter at the (drinking) water stations to do the entire job, which is entirely inappropriate and ineffective. Funny enough of course, the filters at the drinking water stations were expensive, high quality European types, and despite years of efforts by sannyasin engineers to get them replaced, nothing happened. So if you were to have a drink of water from the new 5-star resort, the filters at the wells are removed, the central filter is turned off, and the filters at the drinking water stations were so old that they needed to be replaced years earlier. Of course no doubt in the time that I have been banned from the resort everything has changed, and you now have at least an on par water treatment system. Sure everything has changed, except of course the visible things like the stench coming from the nala in Osho Park.

    You see for a long time only the hidden was left to degrade, and of course visitors would not suspect anything was amiss…even when they got sick from drinking the water or eating the food (Indian curries have lots of water in them!). Unfortunately business is getting a little tougher these days, and even the visible façade is starting to reveal the ugly truth.

    Concerning the pristine stream that flows through the park, if you believe the Visitors Centre video or the pictures in glossy magazines or on Osho.com, then I invite you to not only drink the water, but also go for a nice spiritual dip in the adjoining sewer.

    I have heard that in recent years the resort has solved the problem with drinking water contamination in the monsoon. With numbers down in the monsoon (and especially so in recent years) this has meant that only a few (perhaps just one) water station need be open. Of course it is reasoned that the open stations are the clean ones. However this shows a deep misunderstanding. The resort has two central filtration systems. If there is a volume of water that passes through either of these systems, and if it remains contaminated, than it is entirely random as to where this contamination may travel. The contaminated body of water does not decide to always turn left or right or whatever at different intersections of the pipe line. It might be argued that a really good filter has been installed at a particular drinking water station. However firstly I would be surprised. Secondly this is entirely ineffective by design (it is designed to be the last resort final filtration and purification mechanism). Thirdly, purification systems at the drinking water stations have historical been shown to be ineffective. Finally, the water from the wells goes to the coffee at the Cappuccino bar, to the miso soup in the fancy Zorba restaurant, to your Indian curry, to your shower, to the pool etc.

    I have seen the deliveries of (large) bottled water to Dhyanesh’s room. I have heard that Vatayana had a first-class filter installed at the drinking station in Krishna House. I know a lot of the truth that has happened. There should be an investigation of this, and the current state of play with respect to water (and everything else).

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com (click on “osho resort” tag)

  3. Kranti says:

    Problems are there everywhere ..even in 5 start hotels..

    There is no denying that there are pollution problems and that need to be taken care.. There may be financial or other reasons which are slowing down the solutions.. Let us look things from this perspective only.. Let us not convert this into one more Pune bashing..

    The locals have lot of suppressed anger and resentment which have nothing to do with Osho or meditation.. We have to take this so called ‘ local unrest ‘ kind of messages with a oinch of salt

    And i dont see sannyasnews appealing.. I only see the wndering where the ‘ volunteering gone ‘ ? Times have changed.. people look at sprituality in whole new context..

    Volunteering not coming along may be one of those things which changed with time..It has nothing specific to do with pune management.. iNfact pune management would have opted for ‘ local labour ‘ because volunteering is not effeytive these days.. It is obivious and can be seen any walk of life.. We are seeing a world increasignly relying on paid services / professionalism not on volunteering..

  4. Kranti says:

    ” The Ward officer for the area, Shree Ram Salvekar, says the nullah outside the commune was cleaned by his department a month ago..Unfortunately a screen installed by the Osho people is still blocking the nullah with waste and it overflows backwards from that point.

    It is obvious there are some technical problems than lack of effort .. Hope it will be resolved early and this so called ‘ local unrest’ will be put to rest..

  5. Kranti says:

    That made me think about volunteering… What is great about volunteering after all?

    When someone is ready to do a certain work for minimum wage because he needs to survive another person volunteering to do that work for no money / for spiritual growth seems to be a crime..

  6. shantam prem says:

    Times have changed.. people look at sprituality in whole new context..

    Volunteering not coming along may be one of those things which changed with time.. We are seeing a world increasignly relying on paid services / professionalism not on volunteering..

    Kranti you are totally right. May be soon we can have the time where professinals will be in love, make love and do meditation too. What is the problem?

    Hire hundred people in the evening, give them white robe. They can dance, watch video and do gibberish. It will be the best way to earn 50 ruppes a day.

    What i want to point out is that there are many things which can never be delegated. One is passion for Master and His vision and His people.
    These three are integrated, cut one and you bleed the other two.
    I cannot say anything about Pune 1 and ranch but in Pune 2 hundreds of outside workers were hired. They were on the monthly pay roles but to deal with them were the sannyasins..who were doing 6 hours of a day work as part of their meditation.

    Small Public unrest are very normal things. It is part of life…in the case above, soon it can be sorted out. but to sort overall decay…it needs inner mutation.

  7. Kranti says:

    ” May be soon we can have the time where professinals will be in love, make love and do meditation too. What is the problem? ‘

    Thats a logical way of explaining the fact today more and more people are using paid services rather than involving themselves in manual labour.. agreed..some amount of manual labour is required and passion for the master can make someone do work voluntarily.. i am not denying it..

    I am talking about a FACT which we see that is unfolding worldwide.. Volunteering has its place but no organization can rely on the unpredictabilities of volunteerig alone.. In pune resort scenario we ( I ) dont know the issues they faced..

    All i said is may be they couldnt get these so called volunteers anymore..Volunteers bring their own set of problems.. so they might have started relying on paid services..it gives them oppurtunity to plan things better… Whether we like it not the people pay for certain services expect value .. If the management doesnt provide that people will not come..only the management knows that..

    volunteering is volunteering..It has its limitations..

  8. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti I am amused by your comment that the problems “may” be financial. The problems to do with Osho Park, as with many other serious problems, have been unfolding for many years. During those years a hotel/kitchen/auditorium complex complete with surrounds and dishwashing etc, was constructed. A new Zorba restaurant was also built during the same period. A year or two later a brand new Cappuccino Bar sprang up.

    So you can tell me that it is reasonable that millions of dollars be spent building a 5-star facade while people can get (very) sick drinking contaminated drinking water because finance won’t by some filters? Do not tell me that the problem may be financial.

    How can massive new expenditure be justified when basic maintenance (that for example ensures people drink clean water) is ignored. The problems may now be also becoming financial, but that is not how things started out. Also it is unlikely that the root cause has been removed. Investment in a facade generates a return on investment so long as people don’t suspect that underneath is filth. This works nicely for the 3-week turnaround jet-setting business-person. Why don’t you go for a holiday? The monsoon has not finished yet so you might catch a good bout of typhoid, cholera, e-coli, amoebas, or whatever. Hence I suggest you not forget to get your injections up do date, else I might just be singing sweet songs around your funeral pyre down at the burning ghats.

    With the slowing down in visitors, for sure there is now no way there will be the financial resources to get basic infrastructure like the water system upgraded, let alone properly maintained.

    Kranti you also talk about value. When I first identified the drinking water contamination problem (some 6 years ago) and the drinking water stations were consequently shut down for a month or more, we (the sannyasin engineers) investigated the problem. We were looking into chlorine fluctuations when all of a sudden at the drinking water station for the new resort complex there was no chlorine at all. Investigations found that the Sodexo technician had turned the machine off for service, and forgot to turn it on. I wonder how often that has happened?

    When working in Hygiene I took to delivering a contamination report to the Sodexo engineer-in-charge from the consulting micro-biologist. Normally I just dropped off the report. One time, because there was a serious problem, I discussed the situation with the engineer. The report identified particular water stations that needed cleaning by the engineer. However the engineer was not familiar with the labelling system for taps, and hence did not have a clue which taps he should have been cleaning. This is an ongoing and important job that he was supposed to have been performing.

    The above two examples are not isolated incidents. Hence your argument about value is NOT FACTUAL.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  9. prem bubbie says:

    From my point of view, in a capitalistic society volunteering is just a way for the wealthy to hoard more money. Why pay someone for their time and energy when we can brainwash them into believing that they are doing a good deed, and helping “society”, or they will be rewarded by “god” and get into heaven sooner. To me, it’s all a ploy by the greedy to enrich themselves while us poor schmucks continue to slave away. Time to cough up the dough fellas!!! Did you know most of the richest people are from India!! This is the caste system at it’s best. The very few hoard the most wealth and resources, now that’s very compassionate of you!!! Pardon me, I’m just talking to a figment of my imagination. Bubbs

  10. Prem Abhay says:

    If a community is based on volunteering, than whatever value that gets generated out of the selfless service of love (the path of devotion) should be returned into the ongoing prosperity of the community (and its outpourings). From what I have heard, when Osho left the body there was a genuine outpouring of devotion, and this created many flowers and reduced the treasured ego. However if a few like Jayesh have profited from that then this is criminal not capitalist. I would like to know who has profited and by how much over the years.

    On a personal level, one instance of me being attacked by Dhyanesh and his security team was when I was handing out a water contamination report outside the front gate of the resort. I was not in any ones way, was going about the task peacefully, and was well received – including by a resort engineer. I was asked to give a copy to the front gate. I did so, and the main guard there told me to wait nearby as someone was coming to talk to me. I waited nearby for the oncoming violent attack on me. However later on I found out that the reason I was attacked was because I was blocking the entrance to the resort. Do you see how the truth gets twisted! People like Dhyanesh, and no doubt others higher up, know the truth, yet they are smart enough to twist this into a lie that others will believe. This lie gets fed on down the social channels and then people like me turn out to be the violent aggressors.

    I ask anyone this question. If I am just a fool making crazy statements, and of course have a number of mental illnesses that Osho therapists can fix, what is the harm of me standing around (out of harms way), looking like a fool. Can I not just stand around and hand out a Water Contamination Report that is full of lies? What is there to fear? Is there anything to fear in what I have to say on this site?

    The line of argument presented by people like Harri Om has as yet gone unanswered to the general sannyas community. I am sure that Harri, myself, and of course many others, are just completed mentally warped. Why not set us straight. Jayesh, let us hear from your deep insight into Osho’s work how it is that his people can for years sit in a nice air-conditioned auditorium, and then go outside, drink the water, get sick, and possibly drop dead. I eagerly await your wisdom for you I dream to touch on thy feet. Let us not hear the rebuttal of Kranti and Shantam. Let us hear words of wisdom from the Awakened One. Please grace us with your presence. Shower flowers upon my deluded sole.

    Of course I also concede that Prem Bubbie has a rather sharp tongue.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com
    (click on “osho resort”)

  11. Prem Abhay says:

    Re: Banned Buddhas

    A lot of the Osho sannyasins that are banned remain innocently unaware of the ugly lies that are made up about them. These lies are fed to the entire sannyasin community. The banned buddhas cannot respond to the lies because firstly they know not what they are, and secondly because they are crafted with such evil and cunning intent that it is difficult to anticipate.

    Re: Osho Global Connections Osho Centres

    All the global Osho centres that are listed on Osho.com and that are part of Gobal Connections are partially responsible for what is happening at the Osho resort. This is especially so if attempts have been made to make them aware of criminality and negligence, and if they have intentionally ignored this.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  12. shantam prem says:

    How can massive new expenditure be justified when basic maintenance (that for example ensures people drink clean water) is ignored.

    Tell us Abhay, why this basic maintenance is ignored. What kind of vested interests are hindering this little investment to make the water quality upto the best standrads.

    You wrote-
    The monsoon has not finished yet so you might catch a good bout of typhoid, cholera, e-coli, amoebas, or whatever. Hence I suggest you not forget to get your injections up do date, else I might just be singing sweet songs around your funeral pyre down at the burning ghats.

    Is there a single instance when someone got sick because of the ashram water.
    Can it be that you are hypercondriac?

    From what I have heard, when Osho left the body there was a genuine outpouring of devotion, and this created many flowers and reduced the treasured ego.

    Yes, it is very true. This genuine outpouring of devotion was suppose to take the quantum leap but than some holier than others took the safety pin to make holes in the gas pipe…..

    Jayesh, let us hear from your deep insight into Osho’s work…..
    May be you can listen it from Barrack or Gordon, if you ask for a statement. Even Dr. Manmohan Singh will be gracious enough to give the statement.

    Who knows to control the puppet show from behind is one of the instructions from Osho.
    Somehow one gets the feeling, His discourses are just propaganda material, the REAL TEACHINGS were given to the choosen few, whispered in the privacy of the Lau tzu hause, and that too in a way, for one group of people 2+2=4.3 for another group 2+2=3.4

  13. Kranti says:

    Prem Abhay

    I am not denying that you have few facts which i dont have.. I have respect for the investigations you have done..

    I didnt categorically state the probelms are financial.. I have heard from this forum that the possibilities of financial problems may be there.. I also heard lot of personal money is flowing from Jayesh pocket.. I just posed a statement that it may be due to that ..It was not a conclusion from my side.. This is how we explore problems.. dont we?

    Now if we say it is not financial and if it is as serious as what you suggest ( people are going to drop dead ) then what is stopping management to do what is required..

    This is supposed to be buddhafield created by Osho not Bhopal created by Enron corporation which refuses to accept contamination leading to deaths of people..

    I am also asking what Shantam asked ” ..why this basic maintenance is ignored. What kind of vested interests are hindering this little investment to make the water quality upto the best standrads ”

    I am not asking this to Abhay..as he has his limitations and he is the one to answer..

    If we assume the problems are not financial and the contamination is very serious enough to put lives in danger then it has to be something which is exteremely bad behavious from management.. But my love for Osho and a basic belief that people who lived close to a Buddha can not be that insensitive is not allowing me to think from that angle.. That is where i get struck..

    When you refer to the value for service which i spoke about i totally admit.. Pure water also is part of the value offered.. I refered to value frrom the point of relying on volunteering alone to take care of administration.. All i said is volunteering has its place..But it just will not be enough.. You need a mix of volunteering and paid services..

    I dont want to glorify volunteering also..

    you say ” On a personal level, one instance of me being attacked by Dhyanesh and his security team was when I was handing out a water contamination report outside the front gate of the resort. I was not in any ones way, was going about the task peacefully ”

    You told us you have escalated the issue to Amrito..To me the only thing you could have done is kept reminding Amrito on this … I am not sure about doing something like ‘ handing out a water contamination report outside the front gate of the resort ” It is a very democratic way of jutifying things which is not right unless you are very sure that management has refused to do anything about it and you were forced to take up the issue of creating awareness and protecting people lives .. Trust that what you did…Please share with us if you do have such info..

    From your post i understand about the water contamination issue , the escalation to Amrito.. But we dont have info on what sort of efforts were taken after that which outsiders may not be aware..Unfortunately Pune doesnt have a forum or Blog where they are transparent about these things ..Not sure what their approach and thinkig is ..

  14. Kranti says:

    ” Somehow one gets the feeling, His discourses are just propaganda material, the REAL TEACHINGS were given to the choosen few, ”

    To me , genuine sannyasins / people who love Osho saddened like this will be the real damage .. and Pune needs to speak up a little and be transaparant which will not do any harm.. even osho explained about lot of things which He did..He could have simple waved people off.. But He didnt..

  15. Harri Om says:

    Shantam you posed an interesting question about maintenance and investment. There is no sane answer to your question. You have to venture down the road of an insane and criminal mind to come up with that one. I have already pointed the way. You can venture if you a careful.

    Ah yes of course Osho left the chosen few special instructions to run the show. Hence we all must accept not only the ridiculous but even the criminal because it is as per Osho’s instructions. This sounds a lot like The Ranch. Sheela wielded her wayward wand and all shall obey the wishes of Osho. Even if it is true that Osho gave clear instructions to a chosen few, what does this actually mean? When Osho spoke in discourse he was also talking to either a chosen individual, a chosen few, or a chosen many. In all his people he left messages and instructions.

    How is it that monarchies through the ages held onto power? No doubt a brutal system of punishment was a help. However the key to stable use and abuse of power was that the ruler was in constant dialogue with God, and their word was Gods word – to be obeyed else at your peril suffer the almighty consequences.

    Obviously Osho new that Jayesh needed to travel down the road he has in order to learn and grow. Hence Osho sends him on his way. However he sends others on their way too. Many of these others he sends to mitigate the potential hazards that the corrupted Inner-Circle leadership will likely indulge in.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  16. Alok john says:

    Surely if it was common for people to catch typhoid and cholera at the Resort, you would hear about it.

  17. Harri Om says:

    What is trust?

    The trouble is that what has been happening with the Inner-Circle, with Osho International Foundation (OIF), and with the Pune resort management is so utterly outrageous that it is simply not accepted as possible. It is for example difficult to get your head around the fact that OIF would try and get a genuine group of Osho sannyasins (OshoWorld in Delhi) to have their domain name “oshoworld.com” transferred to OIF. If OIF had its way Osho World could not even be allowed to use the word Osho in its domain name. If OIF had its way Osho World would not be allowed to use the name Osho as part of its meditation centre name. It is so ridiculous that all the people that have come to know Osho through the Pune resort and “Osho.com” draw the assumption that OshoWorld in Delhi must be run by a group of very bad people with very bad motives.

    The same is with Prem Abhay’s situation. It is just so absurd to believe that millions of dollars would be spent on creating a new resort, and yet there is not enough money to buy water filters. Hence when the mind here’s about Prem Abhay getting attacked outside the front gate (and all over Koregaon Park for that matter), the automatic assumption is that he is a bad person and he is in the wrong. To consider otherwise is to consider the absurd.

    The same is with all the people that went along with Sheela and her gang at The Ranch. Everyone new what a beautiful and wise master Osho was. It was just too absurd to even consider that Sheela and her gang (among other things) poisoned and conspired to murder. Even when people heard Sheela talking about conduct that was clearly immoral and criminal, the mind just did not know how to deal with this. People walked away in a dazed state of mind. They did not go to the police. They somehow new it was wrong. They also trusted their master Osho. They were in a state of shock. Their blind trust in conformity was beginning to break.

    Most people come to know Osho through the Pune resort and “Osho.com”. They form a belief that this is the genuine and only Osho path. It is not something that one necessarily comes through by intellectual analysis. It is a developed assumption or view that settles deep in the unconscious mind. If you go to Pune resort a couple of times, and if your experience was overall positive, you will have unknowingly adopted this belief as part of your belief system.

    Since your relationship with Osho is a religious one, then it is one of immense importance, and also of immense fragility. If I tell you that Osho is a fool, or that your God is dead, then in the name of religion – and if I persist in telling you – you may end up killing me. This has happened since the dawn of religion. It is happening all over the world today. It will go on happening until we as a humanity become sufficiently conscious of both our beliefs, and the powerful emotions that we all harbor.

    The more aware you are of the beliefs you have formed about Osho, the more you can be open to different views that challenge these beliefs. You will be able to look at the situation with a more and more open mind. The more you see, the more you come to know the truth – about the outer and the inner.

    Growing in trust is the ultimate outer journey. It is also the ultimate inner journey. Osho has sent you on the journey. However it is your journey, not anyone elses. It is not Osho’s journey for he has already arrived. It is not the Pune resorts journey, nor the Inner-Circles, nor Amrito’s, nor Jayesh’s. So many people spend all their energy defending a viewpoint that they have unknowingly accepted and integrated into their being. Fools are those who blindly accept. Wise are those who question and come to their own knowing.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  18. shantam prem says:

    Harri Om,
    Still you have not answered,” who you are”?
    You are a quite an insider may be on the pay roll of resort authorities, but with an alive inner being who has created an alter ego as Harri Om.

    Abhay, i am willing to bet, no one has ever gone sick by drinking resort water even it is not to the mark.
    Atleast on this point, i have complete trust.

  19. Kranti says:

    Harri Om

    I am not able to understand your last post..the context

    ” So many people spend all their energy defending a viewpoint that they have unknowingly accepted and integrated into their being ”

    But I see you aggressively positining your viewpoints through your blog. You seems to had convinced anout the criminality of few people who run pune..I am aware you know few facts about incidences..But since we dont know who you really are it is very difficult to see things the way you do..

    You have a viewpoint that what OIF wanted to do with oshoworld is outrageous.. why is it so? It was a legal issue..thats it.. Any organization would have done that..

    You say we may kill you if you say Osho is a fool.. Whom you are addressing and What is the presumtion here about the level of conciousness of sannyasins … why would anyone that ..have not we come a long way from such things ?

    who said Prem abhay is bad.. I didnt see any post by anyone stating Prem Abhay is bad..

  20. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,
    May be one can say about Punji ji of Lucknow…that he gave personal messages and transmission of energy to few chosen one. Punji ji came on the scene in the last few years of His life.
    Osho has a continuity of 35 years of recorded history. Many times we can hear Him say that people who are needed as His care taker Has no extra ordinary relation with Him.
    For example , to His videographer Nishkriya, He has mentioned so many times as first zen master from Germany..
    I don’t think, this intelligent man will go to the Guinness book of records with His claim…
    For sure it will be interesting to know the personal anecdotes from people who interacted with Him all around His life.
    But to give some one’s personal story as a divine commandment and that too when it looks such a stupid patch work to the whole tapestry.
    In the past, blood lines of royalty and the mystics were treated with reverence…Osho took this hocus pocus believe away, otherwise He has record numbers of siblings amongst the Masters.

    Why one man with money and another with a medical degree become the sole successors of Osho and His vision….My being cannot digest this.and moreover i can not understand why the wide spread dissatisfaction is not taking the voice.

  21. Kranti says:

    Prem Abhay

    ” Let us not hear the rebuttal of Kranti and Shantam.”

    This is a forum and we discuss things as per our understanding .. We may or may not be right . I certainly have respect for your views / investigation based facts ..Shantam will also have immense respect for others views.. I dont think we react just because we can..

  22. Kranti says:

    ” Why one man with money and another with a medical degree become the sole successors of Osho and His vision….My being cannot digest this ”

    I am not able to understand that Shantam..I still have a feeling only these two have struck to what Osho asked them to while others have left to fulfill their individuality..

    Whether they are doing it according to Osho vision is something beyond my level of understanding… I can have views .. But at best they can be views.. So many threads dedicated to discuss that already anyway..

    I think issues will have clarity only when Pune clarifies few things ..for the sake of transparency.. …Coming out with clarifications have its problems..It opens up new problems and arguements..But again they may feel the sannyasins should focus only on meditations not on these things..That may be their take..

  23. Kranti says:

    Talking about viewpoints and Truth i came across a beautiful essay by Scott Kiloby on the same topic including what is ‘ reality ‘. He is one teacher i have started listening of late and have enourmous respect for the details & honesty with which he comes across.

  24. prem bubbie says:

    For all of the debate going on here regarding “the Resort” and the power hungry minds running it, one thing that I know Osho wanted was intelligent sannyasins , plain and simple. Over the course of almost 40 years those who have been “in charge” have not shown intelligence at all. Intelligence starts with using common sense, noticing the obvious and then taking action as the situation dictates. From running drugs and prostitution in Bombay and Pune 1; to trying to rig elections and committing murder at the Ranch; and these last 10 years of, who had Osho’s ear at his death bed and who’s right or wrong at the “resort”. It’s sickening. all of you “power” hungry, greedy, uncaring, supposed sannyas assholes, after all this time and spending all that time close to Osho, had nothing of love and compassion and intelligence rub of on you. Take your fucking resort and shove it up your ass!!! If you clowns can’t for the life of me, provide the basics like clean water for people and a healthy living environment and then assault some one who points that out peacefully, you are lower than low, scum of scum, nuke it as far as I’m concerned. One less disgusting place on this earth occupied by monsters is fine by me!!!! All of us who care, please let’s stop wasting our energy trying to “convert” these scumbags, and move on. I know, Osho was there in the past and it supposedly still radiates his energy. 20 years he’s gone, his energy has been replaced by dark energy. Let that Black Hole disappear. I do apologize for calling for the nuking of the”resort. I’m just fed up with their shit. Give them no energy anymore and they’ll fade away. Bubbs

  25. shantam prem says:

    I am not able to understand that Shantam..I still have a feeling only these two have struck to what Osho asked them to while others have left to fulfill their individuality..

    Keerti, a shy, hesitant and very private person like me would not have used the key boards in this way without being the eye witness of the whole process.
    For more than 15 years India for me was Poona, Poona was koregaon Park and koregaon Park was ASHRAM.

    Sometime the realites of our time are more far away than the historical stories.
    For example we all know about MahaBharta, its main characters, same is about Ramayana, Same is about Buddist stories.
    We know the complete menu of Jesus’s last supper and the sitting arrangement….but how much we know about the games people played around Osho.

    Just imagine in few hundred years again their is some Master, well read and logical in approch, Won’t it be pity that he has to use the thousand years old stories.

    Osho is without doubt in the liniage of Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Nanak, Kabir…..
    but Do His disciples stand in the same glorifying position as their disciples.
    No–We have let Him down utterly, though He will go on loving us. Like a father, we have become His weekness!
    He never gave us clear instuctions to do this or do that, because He respected us, He trusted our intigrety, he was pointing out all the historical blunders commited by others so that we learn from them.

    For example, He spoke about the priest mentality and we said, yes we hate this word an dthis profession too. We will not have priests, we will have group leaders, who have become an expert in teaching swimming in the dry pool.

    We can hire a script writer to create fictional stories of disciples devotion and their heroic acts and their defiance of the odds on the path.
    The metal of the disciples is known not during Master’s life time but afterwards. Instead of spreading the energy pyramid, we have got the cemented pyramid, and a swimming pool.

  26. Prem Abhay says:

    Has anyone every got sick from drinking the water or eating the food at the resort? I used to work assisting the consulting micro-biologist at the resort. I became aware of a clear pattern of serious contamination of food service equipment, of food, and of water. Furthermore no serious attempts were made to address the problem. Why would the resort go to the effort of finding out about contamination (unlike almost all other such places in India) yet do nothing about it? It is the same as asking why build a flash new resort and not replace the water filters.

    I used to help the nurse out in the Medical Centre. You wonder whether people actually ever got sick. People used to come in their droves to the medical centre. I am sure that not all the ailments attributed to consuming unclean food and water was from bad airline food or from eating out at the local Koregaon Park restaurant.

    There is such a thing in law as proximate cause. It is almost impossible to say that the resorts drinking water caused a person to contract a water-borne disease. However if the resorts water is sufficiently contaminated, and other possible ways of contracting the water-borne disease are shown to be not nearly so likely, then in the legal sense it can be argued that the resorts contaminated drinking water was the proximate cause of contracting the water-borne disease.

    People have been commenting about volunteering. It reminds me of the nurse I used to help out in the Medical Centre. She has basically given a life service to Osho, from Pune 1, to The Ranch, and to Pune 2 (the ashram and the resort). When she arrived at the front gate Christmas before last, she was expecting the usual scenario. She was living in Lao Tzu on a residential program and she worked in the medical centre. However she was informed that there was no room for her. She had to find a room outside the resort. Someone else was performing the medical duties. The reason for this happening was of course a mix-up: Vatayana had somehow got it wrong and had informed everyone that she was no longer coming to the resort. This is the kind of thankyou that is given to people that offer their life to voluntary service. Also, if Vatayana got it wrong, why then did not someone have the wisdom to get it right? But no, this devoted Osho sannyasin spent the rest of the season coming to the resort infrequently because she could not afford to regularly pay the entrance fee or the exorbitant food prices. All this to a person who has perhaps given more service to Osho than any other.

    I am sure that this nurse’s association with me also had nothing to do with the outrageous treatment of this devoted Osho sannyasin.

    Kranti has mentioned that the lack of continuity and commitment of the transient voluntary community has needed to be balanced by a paid workforce. However if you follow the circumstances closely you will see that the matter is not so simple. Firstly many volunteers stopped doing so because they were no longer allowed to work a couple of hours a day. A real volunteer had to work at least six hours a day. This reduced the voluntary workforce. Also, much of the sincere and committed voluntary community left in disgust at the way things were run. Of course others left because they were banned or forced out. Hence with a limited and incohesive voluntary system, this led inevitably to important work being neglected and to problems in communication. The blame for these problems then was transferred to the existing and depleted voluntary team. Of course now a hired workforce was needed, and Sodexo came to the rescue. From all accounts Sodexo has done a tremendously abysmal job. However don’t they look smart in their nice uniforms.

    Kranti you have written a sincere comment that is quite lengthy. I therefore assume you also don’t mind reading a little. All your questions are already answered in my blog.

    Shantam has been openly critical of me and has claimed to have read my blog. His uninformed criticisms show that either he is lying, he has been hypnotised, or that he is just plain stupid.

    You wonder why you have not heard replies from people like Jayesh. This is not because they are above me or a site like sannyasnews. It is because if they do reply you will see their stupidity. I for example have always taken the position that all I want to know is that the water problem is fixed. If I got even the shortest of emails saying so, this will be an acknowledgement that there was a problem in the first place. This is something they cannot do. Also, to whatever extent they respond to criticism, it is in writing and they therefore need to stand behind that. They have nothing to stand behind except lies, negligence and criminality.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  27. prem bubbie says:

    One of the first things Osho taught us was not to be attached. That this the greatest thing the mind does– attachment. Some of the greatest examples of not letting go is from the 3 so-called great religions, judaism, christianity and islam. All are still attached to the area where their gurus resided, with judaism dating back 5000 years and islam some 1300 years. Look at these pathetic religions now. Still fighting amongst themselves and within themselves too. “….15 years India for me was Poona…koregaon park was the ashram”. I can see this place in 2000 years and whoever the sannyasins maybe still fighting, still being thick-headed and not wanting to let go and move on, simply because Osho lived there. How insanely “sannyasin”!! I do remember one of Osho’s discourses saying that he’ll leave things so that after he left his body would no big organization would be left to function. 20 years later, he certainly made good on his promise. The joy of letting go…….

  28. Kranti says:

    Prem Abhay .. I thought i read fully.. I will read again and understand better..Thanks.

  29. Anand says:

    Thanks Abhay..very interesting information. Since years investments into the resort has been shortened and this has been very obvious to see for the long term (unwanted) visitors. The overall quality of the resort (sheets, food quality, etc) went lower every year, while prices went up. Somewhere the money supply has either been lower or someone took the income somewhere else for different purposes. Now this important health information will help us all to make intelligent choices about the drinking water situation.

  30. Anand says:

    Can we all in this forum help to spread this information via our facebook conta cts to sannyasins around the world? That the water situation inside the resort is not safe should be alarming news and everybody should be alarmed. Maybe spread the blog site of Abhay to all of your contacts. This way it will multiply.
    I got very sick this winter in Pune and it took months to heal. With all the information available as a visitor we can be more cautious and not trust the resort water filters anymore, use more bottled waters , avoid lukewarm tea in the cafeteria etc. Help to spread this information for the sake of keeping all sannyasins healthy!!!

  31. Alok john says:

    Abhay wrote :

    ” It reminds me of the nurse I used to help out in the Medical Centre. She has basically given a life service to Osho, from Pune 1, to The Ranch, and to Pune 2 (the ashram and the resort). When she arrived at the front gate Christmas before last, she was expecting the usual scenario. She was living in Lao Tzu on a residential program and she worked in the medical centre. However she was informed that there was no room for her. She had to find a room outside the resort. Someone else was performing the medical duties. The reason for this happening was of course a mix-up: Vatayana had somehow got it wrong and had informed everyone that she was no longer coming to the resort. This is the kind of thankyou that is given to people that offer their life to voluntary service. Also, if Vatayana got it wrong, why then did not someone have the wisdom to get it right? But no, this devoted Osho sannyasin spent the rest of the season coming to the resort infrequently because she could not afford to regularly pay the entrance fee or the exorbitant food prices. All this to a person who has perhaps given more service to Osho than any other.”

    But it is a mystery school for god’s sake, where one is meant to be learning let-go and non-attachment. Things like this were happening all the time in Pune 1. See Satya Bharti’s books. People were expected to be learning let-go. Osho was never much into “service.”

  32. shantam prem says:

    I wonder whether someone took away away girl friend/boy freind of Abhay inside the asram compound; it would have been the biggest scandle of his life.
    That is the beauty of ashram, the mystery school that things happen to shake our secured world..

    I rememer the face of the Nurse MA, and i am sure she must have take the whole thing as part of the mystery school. How so ever resort people may try to de mystify the place, if people come there, they come for the mystery school.

  33. shantam prem says:

    Can we all in this forum help to spread this information via our facebook conta cts to sannyasins around the world? That the water situation inside the resort is not safe should be alarming news and everybody should be alarmed.

    My God..this is the extreame absurdity of hypochondriac.

    If people don’t go to Pune, because of principle reasons one can understand…for WATER….
    Than such people should not go to India at all. Poona water in average is better than other Indian Metros and ashram water is not less in quality than any Hilton in India.
    I have doubts about the inner refinement of the resort management but their professional commitment is not less than some one else.

  34. Kranti says:

    ” All this to a person who has perhaps given more service to Osho than any other.”

    Perhapd this was done intentionally to unsettle her comfort levels.. although who can take such rights after Osho is somthing i am not aware.. I mean how the mystery school still operates as a mystery school after the master is gone..

  35. Kranti says:

    Anand .. Are you sure you got sick by drinking that water.?. Where do you live by the way? India ? I am just asking to know ..

    There may be issues with purity .. I am not denying it especially as Abhay has some facts.. But how serious it is open question.. Going to the extent of calling people to create awareness globally seems to be paranoid approach..There are still people who live inside continuously and do residential programs .. Atleast i have never heard of anyone running away because the water is so contaminated..

    If water contamination is what will stop people from coming no one can come to India.. pure water is rarity not contaminated water..

    Recently i had few people visiting from US .. one of them even ate all kinds of crap food at roadside shops .. Nothing happened to her ..Another one ate & lived only at a star hotel and fell sick.. It depends

    With due respect to people this water contamination , pollution aspects are aggravated by western people because they are too worried..

  36. Kranti says:

    Somone said investment inside resort is getting reduced..even recently i saw so much reconstruction , beautfying work happening.. the place is as beautiful as it had been..atleast as far as i knew.. I did feel food options interms of variety was not that big like it used to be.. But i saw it in July which is essentially a non-season and i feel it is due to that fact.. they might have conciously done that to avoid wastages..

  37. shantam prem says:

    With due respect to people this water contamination , pollution aspects are aggravated by western people because they are too worried.

    it is not about western people in general, this water thing is a one man crusade.

    Old habits die hard, so people still use mystery school for resort though the authorities don’t like such humbo jumbo of mystery school.

  38. Prem Abhay says:

    Anand…just a little health information. I had a girl-friend who had typhoid. I also had a case of diagnosed amoebic dysentery, after making the change from bottled water to resort drinking water. I had an ultra-sound at a Pune hospital that thankfully gave the all clear for anything like previous intestinal damage: cysts and the like. However, despite the benefits of modern medical treatments it is still the case that people who contract serious gastro-intestinal infections may never fully remove the microbe, or heal from the physical damage. Sometimes for example cysts may develop in the bowel, and this may create significant health problems many years from now.

    Alok John I suggest you use a little more lateral intelligence than your current narrow minded and deluded brain is currently doing. Your response to my anecdote about the Medical Centre nurse is typical of the establishment, and is typical of their ignorance: just let-go, be cool, and meditate. The example of the Medical Centre nurse, which includes me spending significant time helping her out, leads somewhere. This nurse knows all about the detailed health problems of all the people that come to the resort. She for example knows whether they just came for a week-end special at the new hotel. She also knows things like whether it is likely they contracted an illness from travelling in India.

    While I was helping her I for example spent time as a minder of a person who spent a brief few days in intensive care in a Pune hospital. The person collapsed at the local Gurdjieff Resaurant, went into a coma, and then died. His body was burnt down at the burning ghats. I know a lot about the events surrounding this person’s death. That knowledge may be inconsequential, however it may be extremely significant. The nurse new a lot about the health situation at the resort, and I, inadvertently or not, did also. So Alok John, before you reply in the ignorant and predictable manner of a resort spy, I suggest that you reflect on what is being written as it is written with more intelligence than you currently can fathom.

    With the long-stay nurse out of the way, the Medical Centre functioned only as a referral service to the local hospital. Hence there is no longer extensive information (evidence) about the illnesses that people contract.

    Shantam Prem where are you getting you facts from? You are making up a story at your own pleasure, and even if you account had an element of truth (which it does not), it misses the point. Let it be understood that the resort’s target market is not the average Western hippie. They are targeting quick turnaround wealthy professionals. Anyone in the West, or indeed in India, that gets drawn to the all inclusive short-stay Resort packages that are being widely marketed is not interested in drinking water or eating food that is not of the highest standard. This is the expectation, and the resorts marketing campaign mirrors this. If the resort does not comply than it is being deceptive. Also, if these short-stay wealthy visitors new that the quality of hygiene may systematically be not better than the worst street-stall, I think they may be a little annoyed, especially if they got (very) sick. Also, if such people got very sick, then it is likely that they got sick from the resort, as presumably a lot of these visitors do not go down to the local street vendor and buy a week old curry.

    Kranti I understand your approach with respect to water. You want to know what really has and is currently happening (and why). That is all I have asked for around six years. At first I asked nicely, I got a nice no-reply. Gradually I asked louder and louder, and the no-reply was louder and louder. In the end I asked by standing outside the resort with a piece of paper; the response was violence. However I still kept pointing out that all I wanted to know was whether the water treatment system is now at least up to minimum standard. I didn’t even place the expectation that it might even get close to being optimum. To be at a minimum standard is in my view still deplorable, but at least it is neither negligent nor criminal.

    Shantam Prem, on what grounds do you say that the water thing is a one man crusade? Just because you have not heard about it from anyone else does not mean that people who sense they have become sick from resort food and water don’t care. And even if it is a one person crusade, is there a problem with that. If one person is trying to stop thousands (perhaps historically hundreds of thousands) of people from drinking contaminated water from a water treatment system that is in a deplorable state, is there anything wrong with that? What is wrong is that someone like you writes emotive language that is personally directed at someone and something that you no absolutely nothing about. Are you also on the take?

    Again, like so many times before, I conclude with the following. All I want to know is if the water treatment system(s) at the resort is (are) at least up to minimum standard. What would also be nice, but (perhaps) not as important, is a clear response to so many other health and safety issues that I have raised. I also think that for all the people that have become sick from drinking contaminated water, they have a right to know the historical facts, and also a legal right to compensation.

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com click on “osho resort” on right side of blog

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  39. Anand says:

    I for one thank you Abhay. I got gastro problems the day after I had arrived at the resort and I never eat food outside of the resort except a pizza delivery (will stop that too now). For sure your article made me aware not to trust those cute German water filter machines, where I filled up my water bottles.
    Knowing the characters of the power play in the resort I can totally believe that they cut corners to save money…..sad but true.

  40. Anand says:

    Kranti/ Shantam Prem: of course it is not easy to p;in point where your gastric problems are coming from and where they hide right now. The story of Abhay seems outrageous now, but fits in the overall picture…..
    I was drinking beer with the homeless during the ranch time and found out later that the beer was drugged for them and that is where my gastric problems surfaced. Of course we all know that India has inferior standards, but the ashram/ resort was always very proud in being best they can in that direction. Now we all get a glimpse behind the curtain….
    No Kranti there has been no change or evolution in the food service during the last 10 years. I am bringing a suitcase full of food from Europe when I come…

  41. prem bubbie says:

    This leads to a sad conclusion: that these morons running “the resort” are worse than Sheela and her merry band of cutthroats. Correct me if I’m wrong but those goons on the security detail at the Ranch never used physical violence by assaulting people. Way to go Abhay!! if most sannyasins were to have taken a more direct approach, all the shit that has happened over the last 40 years may never have happened. Instead of having thousands of numb skulls calling themselves sannyasins there would probably be hundreds of communes flourishing today, with healthy debate and beneficial meditation. You characters just can’t seem to learn from mistakes and grow from them. Be vigilant and aware, keep on meditating too. Just because it’s the resort or the ranch or that it’s sannyasins, doesn’t mean shit!!!! Got it?????

  42. Prem Abhay says:

    I have not finished yet…

    Why go to the effort of finding out about food contamination and do nothing about it? I know that Harri Om will have an excellent metaphysical response to this one: the evil and criminal unconscious mind. However this is not sufficient explanation for a world of laws and courts.

    When I was involved with Hygiene in the Kitchen Department I found out that lettuce was contaminated regularly and for years. I went through years of old reports and put this information in graph and table form. This information went to the then Kitchen manager. The remarkable thing out of this was that the then manager said that she knew about the problem and that if she had her way lettuce, along with a number of fruits (papaya for example) would simply not be served. So if the kitchen manager could not have her way, who’s way was it?

    I was informed by a senior sanyassin engineer (who as I understand designed both water treatment facilities, and was also deeply involved in food/water purification – including the use of Hydrogen Peroxide) that McDonald’s had taken to flying in lettuce from overseas because it was impossible to grow and keep it clean in India.

    My efforts to remove lettuce (temporarily) were successful. I was also temporarily successful with the water contamination problem. I noticed and then informed (what is now called) Facility Management about the water contamination problem. Facility Management included the water division. The drinking water stations were closed for more than a month while the problem was supposedly addressed. During that same monsoon the Himalayan drinking water was found to be contaminated. I managed to get Himalayan water withdrawn from the resort, and no more orders were to be accepted until the problem was understood and rectified.

    Some weeks after the Himalayan bottled water problem was first identified, to my surprise Himalayan water was back on the shelves. I approached the micro-biologist about this. The decision was done without my knowledge and from my recollection was made by the then kitchen manager Gartha. However the issue of Himalayan water contamination was not resolved, and was subsequently found again to be contaminated. Furthermore this problem continued to occur in subsequent years.

    The water treatment system was found to be in a state of severe neglect. This was the conclusion of the person in charge of water (a sannyasin engineer) and myself (I have an honours degree in manufacturing systems engineering, and have specialised in fluid systems). We made a number of recommendations. However part of the process was to inform and discuss the issue with the historic engineering leadership. A partial dialogue with one of these senior engineers took place. Another sannyasin engineer who was previously in charge of water returned to the resort and took over the problem. He in my opinion did nothing of any significance to fix the problem, and hence (according to the microbiologist) the problem was worse the following year. I accept however that this engineer made it clear to me that his efforts to request even the simplest things like some new filters went unheeded. Hence there was little chance of the needed significant upgrade.

    Regarding re-opening of the water system, from the head of the micro-biology consulting company, it was clearly stated to me that the water pipes needed to be flushed prior to re-opening: after a serious contamination, a film of micro-organisms can build up at different places throughout the system. If they are not removed through for example injecting hot steam into the system, then they can continue to remain in the system, and periodically release toxins or microbes. He offered this service, and also stated that though this was not his field of expertise, he knew someone that was, and that this person resided in Pune.

    The year after I tried to get lettuce removed, it was back on the menu. This brings me back to the main question. Why would lettuce continue to be offered when it was for years not possible to keep it clean (from memory, some months the average pass rate from the microbiologist was around 50%). The answer is that lettuce, along with a wide variety of other raw foods and meals, is seen as the healthy Western ideal. Of course many health conscious Westerns are interested in eating such meals. Also, many Indians aspire to adopt Western eating habits, and hence this food also appeals to them. Hence, having such foods on the menu is very good for business. Of course in India such foods are regularly contaminated and hence will make people ill, but that doesn’t really matter does it? Also, I am quite sure that the microbes that the microbiologist tests for are chosen with clear scientific reason. The acceptable level of microbes is also no doubt stipulated with good reason. E-coli for example is so concerning that even a count of 1 means that the item fails the test.

    From my experience and understanding, and from the accounts of other relevant people, E-coli has historically been regularly spread throughout the resort, from the water and food, to the food containers and the pool. E-coli is a microbe that is already found in our intestines. However, it is also something that can also cause death.

    You may think that when you visit the resort you can just drink the bottled water. Perhaps the water treatment system has anyhow been ‘fixed’. Perhaps Himalayan water no longer gets contaminated. I do not know the current situation. What is strange to me is that I have the potential to hurt the image of Osho and the resort. Hence I just cannot work out why I have never been informed of where it is that I have gone wrong in my understanding, or whether the problems that I have raised are important (as Amrito agreed in a phone conversation), and have been, or are (time permitting) in the process of being, addressed. Hence I continue to inform people of the historic situation and can only assume that the trajectory has not changed.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  43. shantam prem says:

    One thing, i wish to say also that Concern of Prem Abhay are genuine too specially when he has a required qualification in his line and his willingness to share his skills with His people.
    We have heard many times, Osho saying” Make space for my people. More people are on the way.” Life was chaotic around him but was an harmony, not there is no Orchestra playing, but a single instrument is making pain in the ears.

    Water or food or prices…when not a single chair can move in the commune without the prior knowledge of the boss, talent goes to exile. People restore to their survival mechanism and if once in a while some competent person comes and takes over the work, will be push aside.
    Even the left over western people who came to India in search of truth have learnt the traditional way of Indian mentality; never annoy the king, the boss, the big fish in the Ocean.
    Simple thing is as it was in the history, a paranoid king will create an army of eunches to protect his palace of 101 women.

  44. shantam prem says:

    Kranti, just to clear the history from my prospective.
    It is not true that other members of Inner circle left for their individual goals and two sticked with the commandment.
    Few left out of silent protest, few were give red slips and few were kicked out, may be few went with their own pleasure.

    In any case, it is a first time in the history of world spiritual /religious scene, that Master’s last wish was taken so lightly.

    People may cry about the organised religions. I also do, still i wish to bow down before those innocent 10-12 people around Jesus, who believed in Him and did their best to transmit the lamp further.

    Oh Yes..we don’t need that with Osho. This work will be done by the youtube and facebook and amazon.com. It is like why to marry or have a girl friend, when you can have on the net hundred thousands babes, all free.

  45. Alok john says:

    Abhay wrote :

    “Alok John I suggest you use a little more lateral intelligence than your current narrow minded and deluded brain is currently doing. Your response to my anecdote about the Medical Centre nurse is typical of the establishment, and is typical of their ignorance: just let-go, be cool, and meditate. ….

    So Alok John, before you reply in the ignorant and predictable manner of a resort spy, I suggest that you reflect on what is being written as it is written with more intelligence than you currently can fathom.”

    I am just a London sannyasin with no connection to the resort management. I have not been to Pune since 1990. But if your desires are not met, Osho’s teaching really was meditate and let-go. Osho’s teachings can be tougher than they first appear.

  46. Anand says:

    If this discussion serves no other purpose, it might make us all at least aware again, that India is a country full of bliss, beauty and meditation, but also full of
    possible diseases. So it is good to be aware of this and take proper caution when visiting – as much as is possible. And the Osho Meditation Resort is just a tiny island surround by the poisonous fumes of modern Indian society.
    Bottled Indian water is also not safe by Western standards, so you probably should stick to cooked foods, avoid salads and fruits and extra boil even bottled water again. Thanks Abhay for the information on the salad and the papaya.
    I will bring papaya pills instead!

  47. Kranti says:

    ” Osho Meditation Resort is just a tiny island surround by the poisonous fumes of modern Indian society. ”

    Very True Anand… Pollutions , water contaminations are the norms..But the key reason is population..Iy is just not possible to educate such large scale population and also ensure standards.. And you always have something called ‘ bribe ‘ when someone goes to consumer court.. Money control legal systems

    ” Bottled Indian water is also not safe by Western standards ”

    What you call brands dont work effectively in India for two reasons

    1.Major part of the bottled water / any other branded product are actually duplicates manufuactured by local industries..

    2.Even the big brands dont follow standards when it comes to India ..they have different low standard for India

    Check out the latest protest against genetically modified products being sold in India..So many big branda are refusing to stick to standards when it comes to seeling in India..

    India is more often dumping ground for low quality products , toxic materials including ship breaking etc..

  48. Kranti says:

    Most of the Indians including myself live with gastric problems / other ailments without even realizing how we are getting it.. If the source of infections / contaminations are few you can address it..If you can get infected by everything and everywhere what will you do.. ?

  49. Anand says:

    Kranti, when you live in India for a longer period your system ‘adjusts’ to the surroundings. When you just fly into India from the West for a limited period of time, the system goes easy into shock and is more likely to react.
    I lived with gastric problems like gastritis through my first visits to India in the seventies, now that I am older the symptoms are getting stronger up to a point, that I feel, do I really want to do this again? And the body takes longer time to heal. I guess many of us paying back for the unattentiveness we gave to these health facts, when we spent years with Osho in India. And also for our own naivity to believe that the ashram provided a superior standard for water and food, then the rest of India. I wondered many times if the old story about the ‘organic food farm’ providing food to the resort is really true? It does n ot feel that way at all. Food products chosen in the resort are very commercial and industrial, far away from the consciousness of healthy and organic food available in Europe and USA.

  50. Kranti says:

    Yes Anand.. i agree..It is really difficult for a western..I did say western people are too worried.. But i understand they have their reasons..

    Also i dont think Indians get adjusted ..they live with it….they suffer ..I had gastritis for years and i was insensitive towards finding the real cause.. at the most i blamed some daily food / spicy stuff i used to take.. never really got in to details or thought about water contamination etc..

    Indians just bullshit about spritual awareness and all nonsense..they dont have awareness about their basic physical & mental health..

    I never think India of highly when it comes to sprituality ..At least not curent day India.. 90% of what they call sprituality is very complex mental games.. thats the reason i am astonished by the simplicity of all these neo-advaita teachers of the west.. I am not saying all these guys are awakened..But they sound lot more honest and harmless compared to Indian spiritual gurus..

  51. Kranti says:

    Recent news about GE food.. Most of the stuff mentioned under red list are daily products used in every Indian home..

    http://www.newkerala.com/nkfullnews-1-107959.html

  52. Kranti says:

    Just to re-state except Osho i dont give a damn to Indian sprituality.. Infact i feel the spritual scene in India is nauseating to put it mildly .. I become a nervous wreck when i come closer to Indian religious / spritual concepts… Full of mind games about things which has nothing to do with the beauty of life infront of you.. I am eternally greatful to Osho for throwing me out of that crap system..

  53. Prem Abhay says:

    Alok John, you say you have not been to Pune since 1990. Perhaps you are smarter than you have indicated. However your brief sharing of Osho’s wisdom rings hollow – and that is not the hollowness of the metaphoric bamboo. If these were Osho’s words they would be full of emptiness because they come from and are connected to the source. This is why editing Osho’s words, or indeed paraphrasing them in a tragic blasphemy, is a crime in matters of the spirit.

    Anand, I used to find it comical that the resort referred to its very own organic farm. First of all you would assume from this that the resort owned the farm, which it does not. Second of all you would assume that most of the food that was provided by the resort came from the farm, which it does not. You may ask who am I to make such comments. I have travelled to the farm with the owner of the farm in the owners own farm vehicle. When we set out for the farm I was looking forward to getting away from the craziness of Pune city. To my surprise we had yet to leave what I consider to be the suburban pollution belt when we turned of the main road at an Indian settlement.

    I think dealing with the surrounding thick Indian air pollution may have proven difficult for keeping above ground vegetables clean from pollutants. I understand that the farmer also had significant problems with run-off from the local settlement that had unexpectedly grown considerably in size. Part of the problem was this run-off (nice stuff as you may imagine) used to make it into the farms open well. However the farmer was in my opinion genuinely and enthusiastically trying to do his best to grow vegetables that were as free as was possible from chemicals.

    Yes “Osho.com” website is full of little twists and turns. It is a little like when I read that the resort tested the drinking water daily. Well in a way it is true (except of course on Sundays). Each day some water samples are taken. One day it may be samples from the wells, another day may be several drinking water stations and the pool. On another day samples may be taken from taps in various kitchens. So I suppose the statement was vaguely approximating the truth. Of course that hygiene is to the best of international standards is also just shy of the mark.

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

    click on “osho resort” link

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  54. shantam prem says:

    “This is why editing Osho’s words, or indeed paraphrasing them in a tragic blasphemy, is a crime in matters of the spirit. …”

    Not just the words but changing the very life style crafted and drafted by Him at 17, koregaon Park, is a crime against the spirit.

    Those who think, it is just an attachment with the dead guru, should stay in their immediate surroundings and find happily living guru/truth what so ever.

    There is a proverb in Hindi,” You dig the mountain and than was found, a mause”.

    35 years of non stop discourses full with intelligece, wisdom and fire of rebelliousness with the coolness of compassion…. and you turn this all in 10 years period into a ……..!

  55. Kranti says:

    Shantam you forgot to type the last word..

  56. Harri Om says:

    I think the word (phrase) Shantam was looking for was “crime against humanity”.

    From wikipedia we have:
    The definition of what is a “crime against humanity” for ICC proceedings has significantly broadened from its original legal definition or that used by the UN, and Article 7 of the treaty stated that:
    For the purpose of this Statute, “crime against humanity” means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:
    (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

    The Rome Statute Explanatory Memorandum states that crimes against humanity…
    are particularly odious offenses in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority.…On the other hand, an individual may be guilty of crimes against humanity even if he perpetrates one or two of the offences mentioned above, or engages in one such offense against only a few civilians, provided those offenses are part of a consistent pattern of misbehavior by a number of persons linked to that offender …. Consequently when one or more individuals are not accused of planning or carrying out a policy of inhumanity, but simply of perpetrating specific atrocities or vicious acts, in order to determine whether the necessary threshold is met one should use the following test: one ought to look at these atrocities or acts in their context and verify whether they may be regarded as part of an overall policy or a consistent pattern of an inhumanity, or whether they instead constitute isolated or sporadic acts of cruelty and wickedness.

    To fall under the Rome Statute, a crime against humanity which is defined in Article 7.1 must be “part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population”. Article 7.2.a states “For the purpose of paragraph 1: “Attack directed against any civilian population means a course of conduct involving the multiple commission of acts referred to in paragraph 1 against any civilian population, pursuant to or in furtherance of a State or organizational policy to commit such attack.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_against_humanity

    Based on the above information I would argue that research may indicate that (State) Indian governmental institutions are aware of, and have tolerated, the atrocious and systematic treatment of the collective of religious people that visit the Osho International Meditation Resort, Pune, INDIA. Also, the collective of Osho Inner-Circle and Pune Resort management are an organization engaged in systematic and grave infringements on human physical and mental well-being – as per Article 7, Section (k). Also, the stipulation of “knowledge of the attack” is becoming more and more a reality. It is also clearly stated that it be directed against “any” civilian population. The collective of religious people that have visited the Pune resort over the last decade or so easily constitutes being a significant civilian population (in the order of hundreds of thousands, if not more than a million, civilians).

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  57. Kranti says:

    Harri Om

    I have a humble request.. can you please just say that you are disppointed with the approach of Pune Mgt and stop at that point without allowing your imagination to run so wildly

    I just pulled Shantam leg..You found your own word and got into a legal meaning and finally pulled in even Indian govt into picture iinto an issue which is just about differnces of opinion about how a meditation center is bring run.. On any day people like Amrito and Jayesh are far better people to manage such a sensitive meditative environment than any one of us here.. It is easy to talk in a forum and that too without revealing our identity.. actually managing pune is real life challenge which requires enourmous meditativeness and other managerial skills..

    they sacrificed so much by being with osho through all the ups and downs and serious risk posed to theri lives.. I dont think it is fair to take things to the extent you are taking..Please let us not go overboard in the name of discussion..

  58. shantam prem says:

    Kranti you were pulling my leg and Harri Om, turned into crime against humanity.
    For sure i won’t go so far.
    Still…the point remains the same.
    It was not needed, what Jayesh and Amrito team did.

    They were free to create their own interptation of Osho, in their way. They coud have bought a casino in Navada and turn into a meditation resort. For sure that would have been as great as Bodhidharma’s journey into China.
    There was no need to modify or alter the prgramming created by Osho, the master with rare intelligence and vision. It is indeed a tragic blasphemy…

    it has created immense sense of sadness and resentment among His people.

    These two people have turned the vertical journey into a horizental platform. It is an immense loss to the humanity.

    and i am sure, and i say it again and agian, just take these two people away for a week, and collective will of the sannyasins will turn this into an energy paradise again.

    They sacrificed so much by being with osho….
    For me “They” include all those people who dare/d to take jump into His sannyas.

  59. Kranti says:

    Shantam..agreed. I understand what you say from the point of view of approach adopted by Pune but certainly not something like ” Indian governmental institutions are aware of, and have tolerated, the atrocious and systematic treatment of the collective of religious people that visit the Osho International Meditation Resort ‘..Thats is taking judgements too far..

    Do we ( Harri Om ) expect the prime minister to take over the commune along with his other ministries..?

    Why the India Govt ( any f… govt for that matter ) has got to do anything with this… especially Osho commune

    As Osho sannyasins do we still trust a political body to come to our rescue..Have we lost that much awareness…even to suggest something like that ? Isnt it ironical ?

    Osho will be in tears to see Indian Govt being mentioned for correcting things in his commune…This kind of reactions from Harri Om kind people take everything out of proportion and context and even the actual point that need to be seen is lost completely ..

  60. shantam prem says:

    This kind of reactions from Harri Om kind of people take everything out of proportion and context and even the actual point that need to be seen is lost completely ..

    This is the problem in our human mind or it is like a computer writing, on can make the fonts bigger and smaller.
    My humble observation is that what so ever Harri Om , says, will not be taken seriously at all, as long he is follwing the Al Queda approach, speaking big and hiding in a mause hole.
    Atleast this unseen man is not Bin Ladan, this much is clear.
    Who so ever harri Om you are, as long as you don’t have the guts to stand behind your words, please, accept the situation as it is. Don’t fight with the big fish.
    If you want to claim the moral superiority, than first develop the inner integrity to face the consequences..

    Still the fact remains that there is a wide spread dissatisfaction the way, pilots are flighing the plane. navigation system of our inner is pointing to the direction where it was not suppose to be in the first place.
    Whether is fine, machine is fine, only conclusion is that stewards are sitting on pilot and co pilot’s lap. This may be they can call, Satori!

  61. prem bubbie says:

    It’s obvious that most here have allowed their attachment(s) for the “resort” to turn into an obsession, a dangerous one at that. How many times has Osho said, let go of attachments, yet you guys continue to find ways to hang on to this one called, the resort. Prem Abhay mentioned on one of his other threads that Osho’s ashes are under his bed at the resort, I gathered that this statement and other statements of his that the “resort” has to be saved from these “criminals”. What, all other attachments are supposed to be let go, except that of Osho and everything dealing with him? If Osho were alive, as the old cliche goes, Osho’s response to Abhay and others, would be a good zen stick to the head and even a swift kick in the ass to boot!!!! You guys are repeating the gross mistakes of the past major religions and as I stated earlier, you’ll still be fighting amongst yourselves 2000 years from now obsessed on what to do with “the resort” and who’s right , who’s wrong, if you were able to live that long. If you think those fools at the resort are going to relinquish their control, you’ve got a long wait. Jayesh would have to go bankrupt or die before any power exchanged hands. If I were to get a hold of the resort and other Osho communes and ashrams, I’d burn them to the ground, I think Osho would have wanted that, to totally detach from the Ashram, commune and centers. Get a life and move on. You people are insane and getting insaner with this resort obsession. Bye and fair well. What a joke!!!!!

  62. shantam prem says:

    If I were to get a hold of the resort and other Osho communes and ashrams, I’d burn them to the ground..

    Prem bubbie…have you already done with the church you were born in?

    I don’t know how old are you but if by chance…you are 50 plus..have you made it clear that no fucking priest should pray for your soul’s redemption, when ever you pop out of the body?

    just curious as a seeker!

  63. shantam prem says:

    I was just turning the previous articles here at sannyasnews.
    One which got my attention and have not read before was this 26 page article about Osho from Andreas Roth, it is quite something. Those who have not read this, will enjoy-

    http://www.authentic-spirit.net/denial_and_corruption.pdf

  64. prem bubbie says:

    I’m a seeker too!! There are some gaps, and misrepresentations in Andreas’ article. Otherwise an okay read. No such thing as a perfect and ideal guru or mystic. A BIG problem for most. Get over it!!!!

  65. prem bubbie says:

    The Guru’s ONE AND ONLY ONE MISSION is: to help as many people as possible find their true nature!!! Whatever method it takes. That’s it. NOTHING ELSE. all other things are just sideshows. Now for my next magic trick…….

  66. shantam prem says:

    Prem Bubbie. ..there is no doubt about the seeker in you and the search.
    I remember a quotation,” Trust those who are searching, dobut those who have found it.”

  67. Harri Om says:

    Shantam, cast your doubt on the following…

    Andreas Roth has tremendous clarity and insight into the Osho movement, and people’s psychology in general (but not Osho). I am trying to make people aware that the tragic tail still continues. As I know too well (and from Andreas), the most significant problem is that Osho sannyasins live in a state of denial. Though many of those that have and continue to commit atrocities are in a state of denial of their awareness, they unfortunately are not in a state of denial about what it is that they are doing. There conduct is one of a cold and calculating criminal, not one of an unconscious and highly emotional character. However the denial of responsibility of some many others that know what is going on is the main reason why these insane criminals continue to operate – and in the name of Osho!

    Though I agree with a lot of the criticism, as is stated in the essay there is one clear point that transcends all others. It is that if you cannot be a greater Master, you will make sure that you can at least have (or perhaps make) a greater Master. There are two paths that lead to the Master, and on both these the desire is to move beyond the confines of the boundaries of our drudgery. The difference is one road transcends the healthy ego; the other road transcends everything else and expands the ego towards infinity.

    Osho never wanted to be a great Master. It was people around him that wanted him to be all the roles that he in the end took on. So hence when you try and look deeply and factually at Osho, the truth is you see only the reflection of the expansive egos, you do not see Osho. To know Osho is to simply sit in silence at his feet. To know Osho is to sit in silence and read an unedited book. To know Osho is to know yourself.

    When Andreas takes the tact of criticising Osho there is however a very deep misunderstanding. Though it is better than those who blindly accept, it is not that much better: it is simply blindly denying.

    Every single word that Osho uttered was done at a precise moment. At that moment there would have been a mix of mental and emotional stuff circulating in front of him (in discourse), and throughout this weird and wonderful planet.

    To help explain I simply propose a view of reality: reality is infinite, unmoving, and silent; it is here and now and outside the confines of what we humans know as space time reality; also, from this space, to look out at the world is simply to see a reflexion in this unmoving eternally silent mirror. A Master knows the truth of his own reality, but also sees clearly the reality of the world that we live in. From this space, Osho sat in front of his people, and spoke. However as he spoke his reality never changed. When he left his body his reality also never changed.

    People try and look back at an utterance or conduct of Osho’s, and gather meaning from this. However this looking back is from what is generally said to be the present day. You bring with you the present day, and look back as best you can at the clouded past. I am not here saying that this endeavour is wrong. Indeed I agree with Andreas that not doing so is the very unconsciousness that both has contributed to the current Osho Resort disaster, and is the antithesis of the only thing Osho tried to do: to wake people up into higher and higher consciousness.

    What I am saying is that if you want to look at anything that Osho likely said or did, first of all you need to be clear that you are not caught up in some present day drama. If you can look back into the past with a quite mind you at least have a chance. However a second requirement is that you have sufficient perspective on what you are looking at. When Osho said or did something he did so with all perspectives rolled into one. Hence you need to gather all the information that is possible to try and understand Osho. Though the exercise be fruitful, it for the most part be carried out with such a disgusting and ignorant mind that it is almost incapable of responding to. This is also where many present Osho sannyasins live. It is where many historic Osho sannyassins came from.

    In the bigger picture it is of course individuals and the collective growing out of unconscious mind into conscious understanding. However that Osho was our guiding light is a treasure that is still with everyone that has and has not met him. When Osho left his body he never left the silent presence that his being radiated to us all. He was only awareness. He still is only awareness. We as a sannyasin community are only awareness. The crimes of The Ranch and the repeat at the Pune Resort is testimony that we are far from knowing that this be so.

    Ironically it is outsider intellectuals that have the clearest understanding of the unfolding social patterns. However they lack the awareness of themselves and their minds to really start shedding light on Osho. Many sannyasins can come much closer to revealing who Osho really was, but it be said that they in general are too lost in their own trips to see beyond their dream of one day being a great Master, just like the Osho they created.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  68. shantam prem says:

    If you think those fools at the resort are going to relinquish their control, you’ve got a long wait. Jayesh would have to go bankrupt or die before any power exchanged hands….

    Where is our professor of Psychology, Anthony Thompson?
    I was wondering whether the desire to control and in the process manipulate is also an insticnt like food, basic survival and watching boobs or it is some sickness, a kind of freakiness of the ego.
    As i see, best seekers types were drawn towards Osho and few control freaks too, Colonel Gaddafi or Castro type. Who are so full with these control chemicals that even Master became their prisoner.
    I cannot forget the few hours i have spend at Sheela’s dying people’s home.
    She seems to be totally at ease among the terminally sick people. She hugs them, is very nice with them but every single string is in her hand. she has a total and complete control over these utterly helpless people.
    And i told her, ranch must be a difficult experience compared to be here, as there were many other powerful lobbies, all heathy working against you and each other.

    Same way, one can see in the present day resort. one two people have the complete control. They walk like the pea cocks in a garden full with other small creatures.

    And when some control freaks meditate; will it
    be easy for them to drop this mechanism or they will become even more efficient to carry this weightless weight.

    Anthony, it is a sincereand serious question?

  69. shantam prem says:

    harri Om,
    everytime i read your essays, the question remains and you can go on by passing this, but the question will remain and i wonder how long you will take to write an essay about your own fears of getting banned from the resort.
    as per now it looks like, You spit on these people yet you live on the mercy of them.

    Please share your insights about your own inner rebel and the mouse!
    May be in this way, you relate with other hundred thousands as than it will be our story told by someone who has good writing skills.

  70. Harri Om says:

    I congratulate you Shantam for your ignorance is unending.

    You have followed this line of argument sufficiently for me to come to the conclusion that you are incapable of correcting it without assistance. It is however an interesting example of the nature of misunderstanding.

    In a post a long way back you read the first sentence. Your response from my post shows clearly that you read not any further than that. Throughout the paragraph I followed a train of reasoning and came to a concluding statement in the last sentence. This last sentence falsified the first sentence.

    You have since then followed a line of thinking based on idea that I fear being banned. I have however since that time clearly taken the position that this statement is false.

    You have explored your delusion, and journeyed down the road of trying to tackle the roots of my psychological problems. Do you see your ignorance?

    To work out if you are ignorant or not you will have to look back through the posts. I have no intention of doing so because I know exactly what I wrote, and I saw as soon as you responded that you were utterly lost. Just the same as when you said that you had read Prem Abhay’s blog. Any fool could tell that you were lying, yet you do not yet know this, let alone admit to it.

  71. Kranti says:

    ” what is going on is the main reason why these insane criminals continue to operate – and in the name of Osho! ”

    Harri Om..first you stop writing in the name of Osho..Then talk about others.. And stop calling everyone criminals.. People dont becomne criminals becuase their approach is different.. Even you want to resolve anything you are not going to go anywhere by taking this kind of position that you are a great Osho lover and that you know better and others who lived with Osho are criminals

    Also please dont bring in preachings like what is reality and all things..We are all just seekers . Let us not get into what happned to Osho after he left the body ..Unless you are already enlightened or you are actually Osho writing in this forum using his spirit..

    When prem bubbie said he will ban all the meditation centers and get on with life he really put it nicely what Osho had always been pointing at..

  72. Alok john says:

    For Abhay from The Way of the White Clouds, chapter 1 I think

    “One who understands stops fighting. He is not even trying to swim, he simply goes with the flood.
    This very current he uses as a vehicle; he becomes one with it and moves with it. This is what I call
    surrender, and this is what the old scriptures called the attitude of the devotee. Surrendered, YOU
    are not. Then wherever the wind leads you, you will go. You don’t have any will of your own.
    This has been always so. In the past there were buddhas, floating white clouds; in the present there
    are buddhas, floating white clouds. In the past there were mad black clouds filled with will, desire,
    future. They are there today also.With will and desire you are a black cloud – heavy. With no will, no
    desire, you are a white cloud – weightless. And the possibility for both these is always open. It is up
    to you whether to allow the let-go, or not.
    Don’t think of time and age. Time and age are indifferent. They don’t force anyone to become a
    buddha; they don’t prevent anyone from becoming a buddha. Time and age are just indifferent.
    Allow yourself to be empty, and this is the golden age. Allow yourself to be too much filled with
    desire, and this is the darkest age possible, the KALI YUGA. You create your time and age around
    you. You live in your own age and time.”

  73. Kranti says:

    I read ten pages of Andreas article..while no one has any rights to deny the personal pains he had gone through it not necessary to accept his interpretations..

    As he says we can not blindly believe things ..and thats includes his article also..

    Now the blind belief is something which is restricted in life to ‘ facts ‘ as they are know to us.. Belief has nothing to do with the teachings of Osho..which are generic and which anyone can apply in their life and take it or leave it.. You dont have to belive a dynamic meditation.. either you do it or leave it..

    I will express my point of view briefly about the surrender he talks about

    My understanding is Osho talked about surrender more from doing anything ‘ totally ‘ point of view certainly not from the point of giving up control..It is an interpretaion issue.. Except the few people who lived close to him there was no way Osho can control all the sannyasins even if he wanted to.. Infact as i understand he always encouraged people to go back and lead their life .. The only thing he asked is to keep meditating and be aware..

    The very simple logical flow in these kind of arguements is no one will ask you to be aware and at the same time make you do things in a unaware manner.. No teacher can go on asking you to be aware and hope to keep you under his control also.. By nature of the teaching it is not possible.. Inspite of that if few people give up control and stick to the commune because they cant make a living outside it is not Osho’s fault

    Even now people who come to residential programs can come with an intention of living there but i sincerely belive the commune addresses the problem by not allowing such approaches.. they have also learned their lessons from past and that why they insist on some minimum financial commitment / safety for people who want to do residential programs just to make sure peiople dont come for wrong reasons.. This must have been a huge problem during osho days when osho was trying to experiment the concept of a commune.. people exploited it in every possible way and by creating every possible dependencies and giving up control to make a living inside .. It it Osho fault? Certainly not..

    He quotes JK to support his view.. Why didnt he quote whay UG spoke about JK…. Just watch UG’s last days from Youtube videos.. he was just a ngry madman who couldnt give up ego or expereince any bliss. he kept vomitting his frustration on people.. Jk himself dies complaining against his diciples that they have exploited him.. there is no end to this… If you can belive Osho then why belive JK also.. Why should we take his point to speak against Osho.. If Osho can be wrong JK can also be wrong

  74. Kranti says:

    After moving to 11th page i didnt know whether to laugh or not.. I only see a bitter mind agaisnt Osho

    Going beyond mind in spirituality is not what Osho told.. It is the basis of all spritual teachings..Osho didnt invent anything like that .. mind is just an appearnce in conciouness with serious limitations ..Mind is not needed to know the truth ..Mind is not even needed to to know you love someone.. what to say about truth?

    He says mind is needed to recognize truth..What truth .. When Osho says ‘ truth ‘ he means the truth about your awareness which is unchanging.. He is not talking about your everyday truths which we normally call facts.. There is clear difference between everyday facts which are relative and what spiritual teachers call ‘ truth ‘ … Mind is needed to organize facts not truth about your awareness because mind as well organising happend in awareness

    the definition of what he calls TRUTH continues to page 12 .. and he goes to say things against other teachings which teach witnessing .. i dont see any real teaching saying you have to witness & accept whatever the nonsense that is happening .. even Krishna asked arjuna to fight against injustice while being aware .. while teaching choiceless awareness ..No genuine teachings will ask you to take shit in the name of witnessing.. what he says interpretaions by the masses not the core teaching itself..

    Sadly he says none of this will matter if it had not caused damage… So it matters only because it caused damage.. This clearly shows everything is looked at from the angle of damage ..and that leaves us with a bitter story

    What Andreas needs is good dose of Advaita .. and that too Neo-Advaita .. simple and clear seeing of awareness..

    I suggest few techers like Adyashathi , Mooji and Scott Kiloby.. if he has not tried already..Going by what says i dont think he has tried..

  75. Kranti says:

    Andreas talks about Osho’s drung use and for that he quotes Deeksha ans Sheela.. he BELIVES them..there are lot of other things ‘ HEARD ‘ from people about which we will never know the extent of facts..

    Osho has expressed opinions about Hitler type of people freely.. Those opinions have nothing to do with his core teaching.. He expressed view and opinions with a freedom knowing well it can be wrong..and he contardicted himself wherever he had to ..

    If Osho lied on the rajneeshism book it was because lawers asked him to… Whats the big deal when law itself is a doneky which bites you whicever direction you go.. he simply said what the lawers asked to and closed to the issue without prolonging it..

    Again all these ideas about what Osho knew , did or didnt were dictated by his circumstances… He was awakened..But he was still a human being with his limitations..He cant control everything that happened around him.. He would have made judgemental errors about people and situations and later tried to use some strategy to overcome the situation or to limit the damege..

    The point is he still had to live in the world and adopt to his environment.. It is like if somone pushes Osho down he will fall.. and he had to stop that .. he lived very much under the physical laws and the limitations of the world around him.. Trying to think of him as a GOD and making him responsible for everything only goes to show how adamant we are in focusing on things which have nothing to do with what Osho pointed to.. Awareness and meditation

    Having said my oipnions i also want to say i started looking at Osho as a beautiful human being with intelligence and sense of humour.. but with his limitations … But before i used to look at him as someone special and enlightened etc etc.. It is not his fault if someone has such image in the mind.. Once you have such image you bound to link every negative thing to Him and say he should have resolved it..as though he had the capacity ..

    Andreas , take a look at all the Hindu Gods and what they did .. you will Vomit .. Even Krishna used lies to win the war of Mahabharat and justified it.. It goes to show that our ideas of all these concepts of enlightened special people is wrong..

    Infact we forced people like Osho to live a life which is abnormal due to our expectaions and not that osho forced people to live a life according to Him. What you point out mostly says about the people around him and their unconciouness and it doesnt say anything about Osho himself.. Misdirected assault

    Lastly What is happening to Osho movement is not something specific to with Osho.. It is going to be the case with any teacher..mainly because the age of mass following is gone..

    People learn more about sprituality and meditation from youtube.. there are SKYPE counselling / satsang with awakened teachers available .. Do you see great Maharishi TM movement or a great JK movement ..? There is no such things as ‘ movement ‘ in todays world.. Sprituality will be more and more individualistic .. people need teachers only to the extent they need to learn few things and then they will go ahead and apply it in their own life..

    In a way it is beautiful unfolding .. I need meditation..But i will live my life applying meditation and awareness.. I will not live in the hope that a commune will save me.. It is as bad as relying on one master to save you … or saying the people around me in normal life are bad and sick so i will surround myself with very highly concious people and live as a commune .. It is disgusting to categorize people around us as unconcious and then trying to build communes inviting concious people to live together…It is in a way escapism..

  76. Kranti says:

    When i said commune i meant any commune which is forcefully developed to facilitae concious living..especially around a master … not something which develops and grows more organically..

  77. shantam prem says:

    I congratulate you Shantam for your ignorance is unending…

    It can be harri Om. There is no problem about itand there is always enough time to turn ignorance into innocence.
    For me the person is a last scum who stabs in the back. Show your face who you are, give your writing an identity. Write with your sannyas name, as the name is quite fictitous.

    Like many i may have the principle differences with the jayesh/Amrito management team, but cannot imagine a sannyasin writing like you and not showing his face.

    It is not just an act of utter cowardliness but a shame.
    atleast i am not in that kind of behaviour where they say, enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    And may i give you one suggestion. There are 6.5 billion people, just stole someone’s face and say it is harri om!

  78. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,
    For months, i am reading your comments, your consistancy and sanity is remarkable.
    it also dispels the assumption that those who were physcially present during master’s life time, get some extra ordinary vibes, a kind of “white Swan Flow”.
    In my heart of the heart, i appreciate those seekers who have no past memory, no nostalgia to hang around with Osho…every step of these people is a well earned step.

  79. Harri Om says:

    Shantam you do not even have the courage to admit that you have been following a dead-end track. I made it clear that being banned is the least of my concerns. The shutting down of opposition to the current regime has reached the level of physical violence. Perhaps it has gone even further than that. Also, there is a vast difference between being scared and being stupid. You are trying to encourage me to be the target of much more than just verbal abuse and physical threats!!! If you cannot stand the heat than get out of the fire, but do not try and throw petrol on me!!!

    Kranti, you are saying things like “first you stop writing in the name of Osho…and stop calling everyone criminals…dont bring in preachings”. Trying to force people to do things with verbal threats is the first step down the road to tyranny. There may be a place for you at the resort. If you become more aggressive and violent you may even get admitted to the Inner-Circle. Well done and keep up the good work!!!

    Kranti you speak about surrender as if it is an external thing: surrender to Osho, and the encouragement of worldly activities as a counter to surrender. Surrender is an inner journey. It is about accepting the mystery of your own unconscious revealing itself, but it is not about accepting illegal and unethical activities in the outside world.

    You also have a view of a commune which is a serious misunderstanding. It is true that dependency can create problems, however Osho created communes so that people who were genuinely in need of spiritual support could receive it. After the explosion of The Ranch, Osho decided to address some of the problems of long-term dependency by encouraging people to spend less time in communes and more time in the world.

    George Gurdjieff was a great master. While he spent a lot of time in urban areas (New York for example), he also alternatively spent a lot of time with just few disciples engaging in the rigours of physically demanding rural life. After Osho travelled India, he spent time in Mumbai. He had spun the web that would attract those who were in serious need of his spiritual guidance.

    When the time was right he went to Pune. He did not however go to Pune the city. The ashram was down a dirt track outside a little village. It was very difficult to get to the ashram – you had to ask the bus driver to stop outside the village, and then walk to the ashram and trust. This was because his closest disciples needed his close support and guidance. After a while those that were interested in power started destroying Pune 1. Hence Osho went to The Ranch, to give some disciples the necessary space to again explore some difficult inner territory.

    His move back to Pune was basically a compromise in difficult circumstances. He was trying to balance those in genuine and urgent need, and those that were able to gather some nourishment and then head back to their relatively normal daily lives. Hence to conclude that Pune 2 was the ideal that grew out of Osho’s experimentation is a fallacy. Nowadays those in genuine and urgent need go to other places. Of course they come to Pune too, but that is about as much help as going to a mental institution (actually the Pune Resort is an inverted mental institution: attracting the sane and run by the insane).

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  80. Prem Abhay says:

    Shantam you write that Kranti’s consistency and sanity is remarkable. However I would like to point out that your inconsistency and insanity is also remarkable.

    Kranti illustrates that you do not have to have been with Osho to have a little intelligence. You further reinforce this notion as you are proof that being with Osho does not mean that you will necessarily develop any. Of course the Pune resort management and the Inner-Circle leadership do a much better job than you at illustrating the point.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  81. Harri Om says:

    Shantam perhaps you think that all this happening in these posts is just a little mind game, with no consequences. However the way Swami Rajneesh and Prem Abhay (and likely others) have been physically assaulted; the way that others have been threatened; and the harm and risk of harm that visitors to the Osho International Meditation Resort in Pune have and are being exposed to, is very very real.

    What about all the people that have contracted serious gastro-intestinal infections whilst visiting the Pune resort. It is not entertaining to have amoebic dysentery, typhoid, cholera, or any other serious and potentially life threatening infection. I am sure it is not much fun being threatened and assaulted by the resorts security guards. How would you like to go to Pune and know that it is not safe to walk around Koregaon Park? So my suggestion is that you step back and take a bit of a reality check.

    What is happening in Pune is not a game. Also, it is clear that if some of the so called dissidents go to Koregaon Park, they are putting their lives in danger. However what is not clear is how far the New Team is willing to go to enforce their control. Also, they will be now living in the fear that their grip on power may be waning. When this happens they will become increasingly fanatical and violent…as has been happening. Further, though the day to day affairs of the Pune resort are run by people who reside at the resort, the main source of power lies with the Inner-Circle, not resort management. The Inner-Circle leadership is not centred on Pune. Its scope and interest is global. Also, the reach extends to all the Global Connections Osho centres – that reside in almost all the countries throughout this world. So Shantam your ignorant comments are trying to put my life in danger, and the funny thing is maybe yours too. If you think this is little game of meaningless words on an unknown website then I hope that no harm comes to you before you get that it is not.

    I seem to recall a way back in the posts that Yogendra deleted Shantam and Kranti from his facebook page. That was while the posts were very gentle natured, did not have factual evidence of criminality (that people will stand by in the court of law), and did not contain arguments that had the potential to shut down the current collective of Osho International Foundation, the Inner-Circle, and the Pune Resort.

    My suggestion is that rather then dredging up Osho quotes or telling me or others what to do, that you rather re-read the last few sections, and see whether your views have changed in any way.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  82. Prem Abhay says:

    Alok John, thankyou for providing a clear example of the approach adopted by supposed Osho sannyasins in quoting Osho. You have a particular view point about me, and about Osho. You take an Osho quote and put it into this slanted context. You provide a quote that illustrates letting go. I could just as well respond by providing a quote that illustrates responsibility (the ability to respond). However firstly I am not that arrogant, and secondly it, like your quote, goes nowhere.

    The arrogance of quoting Osho for me! I suggest that you quote Osho only for yourself. If you want to discuss something with me, then use your own intelligence, your own language, and your own words – unless of course you were directly channelling Osho, which seems highly unlikely.

    I am not against Osho quotes. However to put them out to justify an argument is far different from putting them out to let them stand on their own. Osho books, as in shorter Osho quotes, have their own immense beauty. Do not use them for ugly and misguided purposes in trying to personally attack me, or anyone else for that matter. If you want to say something ‘for me’, I am willing to listen. However I think it reasonable to request that it first come ‘from you’.

    Of course Alok John if you would like an example of how to do Osho quotes for deceptive, personal and self-serving means, I suggest you have a read of anything written by Jayesh. Then although you may not change your manipulation of Osho’s words, at least you will get good at it.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

    For more information click on “osho resort” on right of blog.

  83. prem bubbie says:

    It’s my observation that most sannyasins don’t use common sense. Everything but!!!! How about using common sense before seeking out salvation or enlightenment? How about just calling a “spade a spade”? Too difficult aye? Focus on that first and one will be surprised at the results. Some 25 years ago I applied some of Osho’s techniques while i worked as a bicycle messenger in New York City. Anyone with BALLS can do it, if you’re over 50 years old it’s a little hard on the body. So much focus and awareness and common sense is attained!!! Otherwise you’re dead meat!!! Quite literally. Fear of death disappears too!! Cars, buses and trucks and even pedestrians don’t care about you, so focus and awareness is a must, one can even channel out negative energy doing that job. No time for “spacing out”/daydreaming and by the time you get home you KNOW what meditation really means!! At home dance and celebrate, that is, if you don’t conk out from exhaustion. I know New York well but I hear San Francisco, Washington, DC and even some European cities are good places to get a job. Don’t know about India or China though. Just a thought. Now and as always is the time for common sense.

  84. Kranti says:

    Harri Om

    You not only refuse to reveal your identity you refuse to say what violence you went thru.. even for that you quote Prem Abhays and Rajneesh experience ( which happened decades ago and that also we understand the reasons behind that )

    You even stated saying Shantam is putting your life at risk because he asks your idenity.. if this is not paranoia then what else?

    Just because i suggest you not to write in the name of Osho you out me under the category of a developing tyrant and even suggest me that if i become agressive enough i can get into inner cirle..

    What to say ? You seem to be hell bent upon proving that pune is doing crimes..While i dont defend / admit any sort of violent treatment to anyone i dont see any facts from you except some ” a few broomsticks being shown at me ‘ kind of incidences which are projected as crimes ‘ I only see a highly exagerrated reactions from you.. just for this you also want to involve Indian Govt which is one of the most unintelligent govts in the world…. If you keep doing this people will start wondering whether it is you who did some crimes and now on the hiding

  85. Alok john says:

    Abhay, you wrote

    “Your response to my anecdote about the Medical Centre nurse is typical of the establishment, and is typical of their ignorance: just let-go, be cool, and meditate. ”

    I was just pointing out that letting-go is a central part of Osho’s teachings. There is a darshan diary entitled Let Go.

    I am not trying to attack you.

  86. prem bubbie says:

    To sum things up about all this “resort” mess please check out, ” Rajneesh and His Disciples: Some Western Perceptions” edited by Harry Aveling More specifically Pages 383 and 384. Now move on people!!!

  87. Prem Abhay says:

    Alok John, from my side there is a sense that the dialogue we (and others) are having is constructive, and if the exchange is a little linguistically abrasive, then I do not sense that there is any serious offense taken. I do not feel threatened by any content on this site, and if you feel threatened by my words then you are mistaken.

    However it is unquestionable that a group of people have been threatening and (physically) attacking me.

    Doctor Amrito, the vice-president of the Inner-Circle, and long-time resident of the little room besides Osho’s bedroom, knew about the water contamination since I first identified the problem. During the time that all the drinking water stations were closed, part of my efforts was to contact various people. Amrito was one of them. I engaged in Email correspondence with Amrito about the situation. After the next monsoon, I personally approached Amrito and said that I contracted amoebic dysentery, and that I thought it was from the resort’s drinking water. I also told him that during the monsoon just passed the water contamination was worse than the previous one (as per the consulting micro-biologist) – where I managed to get all the drinking water stations closed. He said to me that it was essential that the water be absolutely clean, and that he would look into the matter.

    When I left Pune that season I left a report on his desk. I called him to make sure that he received the report. He said that it was important to have the water problem fixed prior to the coming monsoon, and that the other issues needed to be addressed also. My efforts to follow up on whether anything happened were fruitless. When I started making people aware of the historic problems at the resort, I received an email from Amrito saying that some people feel Pune is the last place I should be right now. When I came to Pune Dhyanesh became the front-line person to deal with me. However, very clearly Dhyanesh is not the central person(s) behind the attacks on me. Yogendra, brother to Jayesh the Inner-Circle president, also was aware of my approach of informing people about the historic situation. He emailed Jayesh, and copied me in on the email. This email illustrates that he, as well as Jayesh, certainly had some knowledge of what I as on about.

    It is clear to me that Amrito has some very serious questions to answer. As a long time resident of the resort and vice-president of the Inner-Circle, this person is in a position of senior responsibility. He is also very much aware of the problems that I have identified – even so much as to agree with me about them. If he was not one of the ‘some people’ that did not want me to come to Pune, then he knows who they are. Also, when I came to Pune ‘some people’ threatened and attacked me in a calculated and systematic manner. Read the police reports on my blog! Also, if you think that I was hoping Pune police might do something about it you are wrong. However at least it brings them into the picture.

    Amrito needs to explain how he is aware of the historic problems, has knowledge of the ‘some people’ who have issues with me, and has knowledge of the violent conduct towards me: I emailed Amrito whilst in Pune and requested he give me back the report. In this email I indicated that to even so much as pick up the report at the front gate could quite possibly expose me to risk of harm. Also, if he did not hear about what happened to me than he is either lying or actively avoiding the truth of it. So this person Amrito needs to clarify his role in what has been happening at the resort, and what has been happening to me.

    During that horrible season in Koregaon Park – it was a lot like Prem Bubbie’s bicycle adventures in New York city – some people who appeared genuinely interested in what I had to say told me that they will contact Amrito about it. Feedback I received was that some of these people indeed did so. One person came back to me and let me know what Amrito had to say. The impression I got from the relaying of Amrito’s discussion was entirely unconvincing. However this person who was telling me what Amrito had said seemed entirely convinced by Amrito – so much so that apart from a small objection, I did not bother to try and explain why this is questionable (which anyhow was in the Water Contamination Report that I assumed this person had already read – hence his supposedly serious interest).

    What the above indicates is crucially important. Amrito is to many people the primary authority to approach on all matters pertaining to Osho and the Osho Resort. Also, he is to many people the spiritual authority (enlightened). I myself thought that he was enlightened, and this is why I continued to approach him about the problems at the resort.

    If you have read my recent blog postings relating to Amrito, I appear to paint him in a positive light (even so much as defend him). This is not the case. By writing the way I have what it does do is bring to light how involved he is with the current situation. Also, for those people so closed to the problems, there is just a slight chance that they will read a little bit of the ugly truth while devouring the niceties that I present on Amrito’s behalf. The recent resort blog posts about Amrito are an each-way bet. Also it puts the horse out on the track for others to have a good look at.

    It is a direct parallel with the Sheela, Osho, and The Ranch scenario. People thought that Osho was enlightened and in control, and therefore they allowed horrible crimes to happen. Osho was not involved the way most of his sannyasins assumed. Hence the United States authorities did not pin him on anything other than a triviality, and that is despite how bad things may have appeared.

    For a long time Amrito had an office in Krishna House. He then moved to a nice quite location in Lao Tzu library. People think that he a central figure in team management Pune, but is he? If he has to testify in the court of law you may find his position quite the contrary: I suggest that the position he may take is that he has nothing to do with the management of the resort; also I suggest that he will acknowledge that people approach him as if he is an authority; and that in response he does take up matters with team management Pune, and accepts what they say as the gospel truth. If he follows this line he is acting in exactly the same way as Osho. However if he is neither enlightened nor a good and decent human being, than it is likely that he is heavily involved in threats, violence, negligence and criminality.

    When I came to the Pune resort I spent three years in silence. For a year I worked/meditated in Osho’s Samadhi. For another two years (with a trip to the West) I was in virtual silence working in Lao Tzu garden with Mukta (who incidentally purchased Lao Tzu for Osho, to form the original and great Pune 1 Ashram). During this time I looked at all the commotion and objections to resort management and dismissed them all. I assumed that the place was run by buddhas, and that Amrito was one of them. When I came out of silence I saw the place for what it really was, and then very quickly I got forced (violently in the end) out.

    I suggest here that Amrito is not worth a gamble, especially if you are aware of crimes – and that too even if you have hidden them away in a guilty corner of your unconscious mind. What I have written here is not an excuse, but it is in part an understanding. This may help people that have ignored unethical and criminal conduct. It may also help the legal fraternity in understanding why you did not speak up about it.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

    click on “osho resort” label

  88. Harri Om says:

    Kranti I object to Shantam and Prem Abhay’s positive appraisal of your intelligence. Obviously if I go into specifics about what has happened to me, or even detailed accounts of the general past (including more than just the occasional use of well-known sannyasins names), then the focus will be narrowed – and for you Kranti I state that that also includes telling you my name. If you do not like Harri Om (the name that is) then I propose that you (and Shantam) call me Swami Jedi Knight (that would be Knight as gender neutral).

    Kranti you talk about me being paranoid. Just give me a little more time and we shall see how you go on that one. And as far as the Indian government was concerned, my post explicitly suggested the possibility of the Indian State being involved (if only through tolerance) of crimes against humanity. That hardly seems to be voicing my support of the Indian government? Could you please help me understand why you respond to what I have written, yet you get what I write 180 degrees about face. Perhaps you can ask Shantam for some help on that one.

    Prem Bubbie, I do not intend to purchase a copy of what may be an interesting read. Could you let us know a few key lines???

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  89. Kranti says:

    ‘ Kranti I object to Shantam and Prem Abhay’s positive appraisal of your intelligence ”

    Your views are your view ..They dont have anything to do with my intelligence.. do they.. So you can go ahead and express what you want without the need to see whether i am intelligent or nor..It is irrelevant..

    Harri Om..I can only go by what you express / eveal.. In future if you come with some facts and prove me wrong that you are not paranoid i will be the first person to accept .. But as things stand now and also because you dont rveal your idenity we can not do much about what you had gone thru..

    And as far as that stuff on Indian Govt is concerned it is ridiculous to even think of involving govertments to sort out a problem ( If any ) in a meditation center and that too a place formed by none other than Osho.. Any such effort is seriously degarding Osho himself who spoke against politicians his whole life..

    As Prem Bubbie said Let Go..What he said is a highly concious & sensitive statement typical of a true Osho diciple….. If things are not acceptable in the meditation center.. then Let go Harri Om…It is a not a political body for anyone to take control an prove something to the world..

    We don’t need to do justification to the people at Pune or elsewhere ..but we need to be greatful for that beautiful human being Osho who took so much pain to make us a little more concious..to make our life a little more beautiful..

    Any political approach simply shows we hadnot become concious enough..

  90. Kranti says:

    ” Could you please help me understand why you respond to what I have written ”

    I respond because as of now i see your approach as one of political and too aggressive tone tageted agsinst few Osho sannyasins ..They are not crminals..Few security guards showing a broomstick to people doesnt mean it has anything to do with Jayesh & Amrito and few people gettin banned is not end of the road.. And inviting prime minister of India is the ultimate insult to Osho.. Thats why i respond.. Ofcourse you can prove me wrong when it comes to few facts.. I will gladly apologise and admit when it happens.

  91. prem bubbie says:

    The book is available free on line, well at least most of it is including those pages mentioned. I googled the title. If you can’t locate the free book I’ll gladly locate the url for you.

  92. prem bubbie says:

    at the “google books” web site, type in “Harry Aveling”, then click “Search Books”, that will pull up the copy of the book, scroll to the pages I mentioned. You can do this for any other title I presume.

  93. Harri Om says:

    Kranti, if my view of your intelligence is correct than the view is not irrelevant. It may of course just be a lucky guess. Even if it is, it is still right. If however my view is one based on knowing that you are lacking intelligence, then my being right is neither irrelevant nor coincidental.

    In general about sannyasin paranoia, it is historically known by hundreds of sannyasins that people have been drinking seriously contaminated drinking water for many years. So the establishment is willing to expose unsuspecting visitors to potentially life threatening infection – all for the sake of what, a few dollars? Now if there were potential threats to their grip on power (and abundance), do you think it reasonable to assume that they would also not mind exposing those people (who pose a threat) to potentially life threatening dangers? With Swami Rajneesh and Prem Abhay, they (the establishment) have already proven my argument. It matters not that Swami Rajneesh’s account is older. Actually it just shows how long management has been acting in a violent criminal manner.

    As for the Indian Government, it is true that I commenced the blog with a letter that I would like to send to the Prime Minister. I believe he is a good man, and knows much about Osho and his work – like many Indian politicians. However as is a blatant fact, the Indian political and governmental system is deeply infected with corruption and abuse of power. That the local Pune police were likely bribed by resort management to make sure that Prem Abhay’s complaints went nowhere is obvious. I remember hearing that the Pune police station has numerous complaints of a sexual nature against Dhyanesh, all lodged by women. This of course may just be a rumour. It is the same with the story doing the rounds that Yogendra was out of the country because the police were after him for having sex with a minor. Local Pune police level corruption is perhaps considered by itself negligible. However for the Pune resort to operate the way it has for so many years means that corruption likely has taken place at a very high level indeed.

    Osho spoke strongly against politicians, just as he spoke strongly against the sexual deviance of the Christian priesthood. Concerning the Christian religion, just two decades on and the world over is full of scandals, convictions, and billions of dollars in compensation. Osho saw the truth in people and called it that way. If you repeat what he has said about politicians and priests without so much as a clue as to whether the situation has changed over the last two decades, then you are committing an abhorrent act of ignorance – just the same as so many other supposed Osho sannyasins. Doing so means you have adopted a certain belief system based on Osho’s writings. You make a mockery of his essence.

    I am tempted not to comment about your ‘Let Go’ as it stands on its own for degree of stupidity. However I shall try and open one of your eyes just a slither. (Please also forgive me for endlessly repeating the same points). If there are crimes being committed at the resort, and I emphasise if, is it appropriate to just walk away? If you say yes, and there are crimes and those crimes be serious and you are well aware of them, then you are both extremely insensitive and unconscious, and a criminal. See you in jail!

    About your view of the issues being trivial, do you not get it that it is likely that people have died from drinking the seriously contaminated drinking water? You also selectively talk about broomsticks. Why have you not talked about knives? In any case a broomstick being used to sweep a road is a little less relevant than having a broomstick threateningly waved at someone’s head. In any case what were the security guards doing with broomsticks in the first place?

    From Prem Abhay’s diary of events it is clear that Dhyanesh (and his security guards) came on the scene on orders from above. People like Yogendra and Amrito were already intimately involved in the exchanges with Prem Abhay, long before Dhyanesh tried to throw is ample weight around.

    “Inviting prime minister”…are you crazy? I just made the comment that his government better pick up its act and find the corrupt officials that are in lock-step with Pune resort, else some serious legal and ethical problems may lie ahead.

    You say that perhaps I will prove you wrong? Kranti you have done an excellent job of that all by yourself…just shows that despite your ignorance, there is always hope!!! It gives me hope too. And don’t worry, I am not expecting you to get the joke and apologise (not just yet anyway).

    Prem Bubbie, cheers, and watch out for the traffic.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  94. Kranti says:

    Harri Om.. The least i can do is to wait for life to turn out with some facts..

    In a way i am tired of posting messages without coming across facts except some facts about water contamination by Prem Abhay..

    Prem Abhay felt these posts / forum has been contructive.. That how i fely when started ..But i no longer feel the same..

    I am taking break once more unless something constructive / new threads makes me participate..

  95. Harri Om says:

    This article explores possible links between Osho’s (possible) poisoning, and the violence towards Swami Rajneesh and Prem Abhay.

    Remember when I made the researched proposal about the most likely scenario of Osho’s poisoning (that eventually led to his rapid decline and death): it is most likely that Osho was poisoned during the period leading up to (or perhaps just prior to) his ear-infection at the Pune 2 commune. The reason why no-one has ever considered this, even though it is much more likely than a United States government conspiracy theory, is because it is something that no-one would ever suspect.

    If I wanted to rub someone out (so to speak), and if the finger was already pointing towards me, do you think that I would be smart to try and rub them out? No, if I was really crafty, the best time to rub someone out was either when no-one was looking, or when the finger was already pointing to someone else – that’s smart, of course if you were a calculating criminal.

    Something is striking my little mind. It is a comment in “sannyasnews” about Swami Rajneesh: and we all know why that happened to him. Of course most people think they know why – he is that slow walking nutcase who thinks he is Osho. The interesting thing is that now, years on, he has decided rather than directing is entire energy into the inner search, to engage with the world. Most importantly, the world likes him very much – so much so that Vatayana had to send a circular out to all the Osho centres to tell them that ‘just to let you know there is a little guru play here’. The trouble for Vatayana and the gang is that Swami Rajneesh aint know little guru. He is not as great a seer as Osho, although he looks a damn lot like him. However this man is a very powerful and striking being, who is drawing throngs of followers.

    Swami Rajneesh’s account of the threats and violence against him whilst at the Pune 2 commune suggests a systematic attack from the establishment. If this is the case and if it could be proven to be so, this would result in serious criminal convictions. Swami Rajneesh was threatened with a knife, he was also badly beaten: some of the injuries took many years (and intense therapy) to heal.

    Yet at the time, Swami Rajneesh was by all accounts a nut-case. The only objection to kicking him out was that he was anyhow just harmless. The onslaught on him was extremely harmful. Yet this did not raise any concerns. Just see the absurdity of this.

    Unfortunately for some, Swami Rajneesh was not some psychotic nutcase. He was also not a little buddha in the making. He was a big buddha in the making, and the establishment (probably) knew it. Of course the crowd of blind followers went along with the violent campaign that the establishment likely set into train. If you think he is still a nutcase, read his book or have the courage to sit in front of him and look him straight in the eyes.

    What about this Prem Abhay fellow that I also talk about. He is another nutcase like Swami Rajneesh isn’t he? First of all he has a string of academic qualifications so if he is indeed a nutcase, he is not a stupid one. Also, Prem Abhay spent years and years and years in silence. Three of those years were spent in Osho’s Samadhi and Osho’s Lao Tzu garden. He used to work in the garden with Mukta (the old mystic lady that owns Lao Tzu – she bought it for Osho, to form the first and greatest commune). I can only suppose that Mukta and Abhay must have communicated in silence, for the sake of the flowers.

    There were rumours that Abhay was Mukta’s latest lover. There were other rumours that Abhay was the lover of one of the other disciples that still resided in the Master’s home. Also, by some accounts Prem Abhay looked to be going through hell. By other accounts he was also a slow walking man like Rajneesh, with long hair and a beard (and in silence). I myself think Prem Abhay has walked around Buddha Hall more times than anyone else, including Mukta.

    When Prem Abhay seemed to come out of his apparently withdrawn and mentally ill state, fireworks happened. Of course there were the nice people who wanted to help this lost soul by doing therapies and the like. However (from his blog) have a read of this…

    I recall one particular incident that occurred when I was standing at the back-gate of the centre. A car roared up to the gate and stopped abruptly; music was blazing loudly; and the young man of Indian appearance gave the appearance of being drunk. The car window was down, and he made some strange obscure comments to me. Suddenly he accelerated of, only to stop approximately 100 metres down the road. The car then spun around, and came back at considerable speed. It then swerved towards me. I reacted quickly, and ended up near the wall of the centre – another person witnessed this event. Other than thinking what a ‘crazy driver’ (a euphemism), I thought nothing further of it; nothing further, that is until right now I type these words.

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com/2008/03/further-reading.html

    Now this happened before he spoke out. It happened when everyone thought he was just a victim that needed saving by therapy. Noone knows where Prem Abhay is or what he is doing. However it seems reasonable to assume that he does not have a global following like Swami Rajneesh is developing.

    His first collection of poetry is entitled “The Dark Night of the Soul: A Way Through”.

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com/2008/03/witness-doorway-to-higher-understanding.html

    Perhaps Prem Abhay is a nutcase like Swami Rajneesh is not. Perhaps Prem Abhay is a great master who wants to see out his days in his last body sitting in silent communion because the crowd is too stupid. In any case, the background fits with the possibility that Prem Abhay may one day become a great Master, even one that could stand beside Osho. (I know this will be deeply sacrilegious to a few fools…get over it). Imagine what the establishment would think of that. Their whole future is based on abuse of Osho’s words and image. Imagine if a real living buddha that spoke in ways like Osho and that had a real and powerful presence like Osho’s, was still in the body. Such a person could be very dangerous (just like Osho was). Imagine Jayesh and Amrito going around saying ‘it is in the name of Him that I do and say’, when there is an Osho II that will stand up and run over them.

    If I were an evil and calculating criminal, I would dispose of Prem Abhay at the earliest, well before anyone would think anything of it. If unfortunately that did not work, I would slander him and make him a pariah, just like Swami Rajneesh. It is unfortunate that Swami Rajneesh came back to haunt the establishment. However what about this Prem Abhay fellow? If he came back I think people might here about it. Where is he? Also, knowing what is happening with Swami Rajneesh and his world tours, I would think it may be pertinent to take a risk and find Prem Abhay, rub him out, and just weather the storm if anyone happens to here that the person that noone knows anything about (yet still writes on “sannyasnews” and oshoworld’s “sannyas world news” board) is dead.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  96. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti the facts are difficult to come by, and when they come out they are smothered, and the person revealing them is (in the least) slandered.

    Harri Om, why is it that you are so sure that Amrito is a bad guy?

    SannyasNews: A while back SannyasNews reporters had the courage to put my Notice of Eviction on their site – Resort Blues. However it was made clear that SannyasNews did not agree with many of my views. I am wondering on what of the many points SannyasNews disagrees, and why? I say this sincerely because I have as yet not heard any half sensible critique of what I have written. Also, quite obviously Inner-Circle and management team India also disagree with my position, yet they will not say where I have gone wrong. Hence if I can have some feedback from other sources as to where I am going wrong, some progress may be made in this stalled and deteriorating environment.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddism.blogspot.com

    click on “osho resort”

  97. Harri Om says:

    Prem Abhay, why is it that others are so sure that Amrito is a good guy?

  98. garimo says:

    He’d be rather inhuman if he was only one or the other.

  99. Kranti says:

    Harri Om ..Why should we be sure that you are a good guy? Or why shouldnt we be so sure that you have a political mind?

  100. shantam prem says:

    Mr. fictitous,
    it is irrelevant to discuss with you or communicate with you as long as you hide your face behind the masks.
    Is it not funny, you know everbody in the ashram, everybody here, yet no one knows about you.
    drop this childish game of hide and seek or consult some psychiatrist for your bravedo and fear of prosecution.
    My guess is that you survive on the mercy of the guys you hate. your writing is just a gas release, nothing else.
    To be true for me such attitude is the most repulsive one.

  101. Harri Om says:

    Shantam, see you for a chai at the resort…oops that’s right you will probably not be allowed in as your rebellious writings will soon have you banned (although some of your demerit points well be lifted because of your boring, repetitive, and ignorant criticism of me). All right then lets meet up at the German Bakery and have a carrot juice with low key Mr PhD (permanent head damage). Actually did you get any under the table advice from Mr PhD about this identity issue that is troubling you? I hope he can help you with your problem. The German Bakery meeting shall be highly entertaining. Of course I will know you and Mr PhD. Mr PhD will know you but not me, and you will know neither me nor Mr PhD…or perhaps you and Mr PhD will know me but not Harri Om? If you stay in this space of not-knowing, perhaps you will get somewhere.

    Kranti you have raised a very important question. You can be rest assured of one thing. If I am bad then I am very bad. I hope that although I appear to know something about the workings of an evil and criminal mind, I do not possess one myself. Also I am only half the puzzle. If you attain clarity about me, then you also attain clarity about the collective I oppose. If you attain clarity about the collective I oppose, then you also attain clarity about me. Of course there remains the possibility of an even bigger conspiracy than the one the establishment is pulling: the collective and I are hand in glove in evil intent. However, because what I am saying has the potential to bring the establishment down, I should think that theory quite unlikely. The only other possibility is that I and the collective are both good. On this point, if it is found that the collective and I both be good, then I object and shall prefer to be considered evil.

    Garimo, this is exactly what I am trying to get at. People are so quick to make judgements about people that they know not at all. Just by seeing someone at the resort everyday for months on end, slowly slowly our ideas about them grow and become set in stone. Many people may have never met a person and over the years form the held view that such a person posses super-human qualities. Another person may be considered in-human along the same lines. Say you instantly take a liking or a disliking to someone. This can grow over time, and eventually become extreme and resolute. Yet so often these beliefs about other people have not a trace of reality in them. To be human is to have good and bad, to make wrongs and to make wrongs right. Yet it would be naïve to ignore the fact the some people indulge in the dark side of their being; the same is to ignore that some people journey more and more towards the light.

    Prem Abhay is now questioning Amrito’s character, where as before he just blindly accepted his enlightenment. So many people blindly accept Amrito and Jayesh’s self-assumed spiritual status. For these people I say that Amrito has a brilliant medical mind. He is also a brilliant scholar and researcher. However he has not a head on him for finance. It perplexes me that Pune 2 was so successful, yet there appears to be underlying financial issues. The obvious question is where is all the money? Jayesh is supposedly the financial wizard that regularly rescues the resort with his own personal wealth. I wonder if he could shed any light on this very interesting issue.

    Oh and a technical correction. The President of Honduras that I was referring to for trying to extend his term in office by changing the constitutional limit was Mr Zelaya, not Mr Micheletti.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  102. Prem Abhay says:

    Harri Om, tell me a theory that I am not well and truly already acquainted with!

    Also, why are you focusing on Jayesh when you address financial issues. Mukesh and Jayesh are in my understanding intimate globe trotting buddies when it comes to such matters. Jayesh and Mukesh both survived the Mumbai terrorist attacks. Why do you separate the team this way?

    Yahoo
    Abhay