More Powerful than LSD

Meditation stronger than LSD
by Lakshen Sucameli

Lakshen Sucameli is an Italian writer, filmaker and independent producer. At the moment is working on a feature film on Osho. Details of the project can be found at : www.oshothemovie.com

I still remember my first Dynamic Meditation more than 30 years ago.

Already after the first stage of chaotic breathing, I entered in a sort of LSD experience that lasted even after the meditation ended and I say to myself : “Wow ! This is ´pure dope´ for free … and without negative side-effects. I want to know the Man who invented it !!!”

In fact at that time, as other people of the so-called hippies generation, we were experiencing several kinds of dopes not just for fun or to escape from the world … but as a way to explore deeper realms of reality.

You may remember those American scientists, psychologists and artists like Timothy Leary, Richard Alpert and Allen Ginsberg who became famous in the ´60-´70 spreading their message of ´turn on, tune in and drop out´ !

There´s a story about Richard Alpert arriving in India and offering a full box of LSD to Sri Karoli Baba who took the pills and remained totally unaffected !
Later on Mr. Alpert became his disciple and was called Ram Dass.

There are no anecdotes like that in Osho´s life, but I remember having heard Him answering to people who asked: “What do you do for those who are drug-addicts?” “I am giving them a stronger dope: it is called Meditation!”

Simply, clear and with His usual provoking and dialectic capacity, Osho transformed the contest of the question into a different approach to the problem.

In fact, the problem is no more that of the ´search´ of the hippies, or that of the artists along the ages using some kind of substances to improve their inspiration … and not even that of traditional cultures as in Central or South America using peyote and Ayuwaska in order to get a ´vision´.

The modern men and women from the West, and now also from the East, are living in a fast lane world full of tensions and often, the way to overcome the problems, is getting into drinking or drugs.

But the state of relax and let go that alcohol and drugs can offer is just momentary as an helicopter that lifts up very fast, makes possible to see the high, but is unable to land and remain on the pick!

Meditation is a longer and more arduous process but, once one starts to walk on the path, there is a chance to reach and finally sit on that pick.

Anyway, the contemporary human beings are not willing to pay attention for something that looks difficult and long. There are already too many ´difficult and long´ things to do … why to add another one to such already busy life ?!

The vitality and naturalness are consumed by being productive for the economical system and for the sake of social moral codes.

Osho was very much aware of the issue and created His Active Techniques in order to shake ´fast´ the mind and the body, make people feel natural and vital again and then … meditation can have a chance to start!

The Osho´s active meditation techniques are among the most precious pearls left by Him. I do not know anyone who, after having experienced them, is not impressed by the results!

No matter if you are a lazy employer, or an hectic businessman.

Once you have closed your eyes for an hour and followed the stages of Dynamic, Kundalini, Mandala or Nataraj … something is bound to happen. No matter if you are a spiritual seeker, or a fervent atheist.

In each case, you will experience something that can open a wider understanding of your life.

These techniques should become part of every school and university program around the world … and maybe one day they will!!!

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154 Responses to More Powerful than LSD

  1. Kranti says:

    ‘ These techniques should become part of every school and university program around the world … and maybe one day they will!!! ‘

    Lakshen Sucameli.. Thank you for briging a thred that is about positive discussion..

    I heard Osho is one of the 2 authors whose books had been displayed in Indian Parliament..Seems most of the high profile mnisters have respect for Osho.. If this can be utlized to initiate to bring Osho meditations to schools like you said..

    Vinod Khanna the actor and a former Osho disciple is very much into politics and i am not sure whether he has done anything to useful in this regard..Someone his calibre & political influence should make these kind of efforts..

  2. Kranti says:

    One most interesting thing that crosses my mind is marketing Osho to all these schools.. OIF approach of marketing only the vision but not the personality of Osho will be very much needed as most part of India is still very much under the grip of conservative religions / fundamentalism..

  3. Heraclitus says:

    I dont think the Dynamic Meditation should be taught in schools!
    But it should be more available for seekers of all persuasions. Doing the modern rounds of gurus/teachers, especially advaita, it does seem many seekers are blocked inside their heads and very few teachers suggest some physical dynamic approach to meditation.
    However as Lakshen may well remember there were many early sannyasins who did not do much dynamic meditation…. it can take one there, but of course not so many people, even disciples want to go where the mind is obliterated.

  4. Kranti says:

    Heraclitus

    I take your point .. But what i see today is that even very young people / children are highly stressed out .. It comes out in so many ways in life.. Have seen parents struggling to cope up with the tension and subtle violence in children.. If these young ones find a way to throw out junk it will be great for society…

  5. Kranti says:

    Heraclitus … Having said that do we have any track record of side effects of doing Dynamic? Is there any risk in introducing it to schools?

  6. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,
    Before you go into the missionary Zeal to introduce this and that in the schools, please keep in mind the mechanism of collective mind.
    Schools universites are far away, just for an experiment sake persude five of your family members to listen Osho for hour and half, to do His meditations are too far.
    After that note down their expressions, it will be an interesting insight.

  7. Heraclitus says:

    I think that any partaking of meditation, but especially something like dynamic should be a matter of adult choice. Having been a teacher I can say that children get release from stress in the playground, in football, in basketball, etc and all sorts of knacks they find to let off steam, much better at it than adults on the whole.
    Any intro to even meditation in the wider sense seems to me to be inappropriate in schools. These meditations are for adult seekers.
    They should never be imposed as part of some curriculum or other.

  8. shantam prem says:

    As Heraclitus mentioned-
    But it should be more available for seekers of all persuasions. Doing the modern rounds of gurus/teachers, especially advaita, it does seem many seekers are blocked inside their heads and very few teachers suggest some physical dynamic approach to meditation.

    Many neo gurus are telling their people to do Osho active meditations, for clearing of the ground, so that these neo Advaitist, in the name of Papa ji could plant divinity in the heart.
    Satsang scene became full with this attitude,What poona could not produce in 20 years Lucknow was doing it in just 2.
    Do a bit of Dynamic, some systematic family constellation and than sit for an hour, say with SHANTAM ( why to spoil other people’s name)…and highway is ready for the flight of known to unknown.
    Than their are others, a bit clever teachers, who have taken the idea from Osho to shake a bit, to scream a bit, to dance a little than OM OM OM ..Oshodhara kind of stugh making rounds all over the world.

    All the techniques…search for G or M spot is still eluding.

    My observation is that people have authentic longing, search and thirst, but the service providers have another motives, their intention is mixed with false vanity, hidden ambitions and Id (It is filled with energy reaching it from the instincts, but it has no organisation, produces no collective will, but only a striving to bring about the satisfaction of the instinctual needs subject to the observance of the pleasure principle.

  9. shantam prem says:

    These meditations are for adult seekers.
    They should never be imposed as part of some curriculum or other.

    My feeling is also the same.

    As we may have heard osho many times saying something like, we must not impose any dogma on the children, it will make their thirst grow in a natural way.

  10. garimo says:

    I was introduced to LSD while in high school… but not meditation.

  11. shantam prem says:

    MS. Garimo.

    And than how you went to the new boy friend called Meditation after dumping Mr. LSD or for a while it went parallel?

    I, may be we all, love interesting stories, from real life people, no fictions.

  12. garimo says:

    It’s swami deva garimo. Seems I mentioned that once, anyway…

    My first introduction to a “Rajneesh style” group in 1980 was Swami Neds – Stop smoking program. I was a waiter in a restaurant and read in the newspaper a small ad about a stop smoking program. I did not know Ned was a Sannyasin until later since the program was not offered as a Rajneesh group and Ned did not wear his mala during the Smoking program, but did for his meditation/encounter groups.

    During the stop smoking program every activity we did was designed to bring awareness to our smoking. Ned would say “If smokers were aware, they’d quit”. Everyday for a week we did Yoga, re-birthing, lots of pounding on pillows while screaming “I want to smoke a cigarette”… altered diet and learned about acid/alkaline balance, and did meditations… and at the end of the week stopped smoking. It was a life change. I stopped both tobacco and marijuana which had been a standard daily activity.
    Sannyas happened shortly after, Ned introduced many to Bhagwan in his day. I was 25 yrs. old. Last time for LSD was likely later the same year.

    I assisted Swami Ned with the stop smoking program for several years in both flordia and california, and helped many hundreds stop smoking. After Ned gave the program to the ranch in 1983, I got to help some with the first offering of the group at the ranch. But the group/program underwent many changes under the commune direction/control and it became no longer successful as a program and was discontinued.

  13. Chinmaya says:

    CHEERS Garimo. A person with full determination and great receiving end to the blessings of Osho, for a U turn in your life and a Lightpole for colleagues and humanity. That is our Master-Osho. Luv

  14. Neo Vivek says:

    “These techniques should become part of every school and university program around the world … and maybe one day they will!!! ”

    There is a old saying in the filed of inner metamorphosis which goes something like
    “Its not for those who need it, but for those who want it.”

    The author seems to have missed an important dimension that the sense and desire for change should come from participants. Else there always is a risk of an amazing meditation turning into an ugly joke.

  15. baawra says:

    Hi to all,

    Yes Dynamic works but most indians still believe in non-active meditations. By the way any of you have any idea of AOL’s Sudarshan Kriya ? I heard that concept of doing sudarshan is somewhat similar to Dynamic.
    Can anyone elaborate.

  16. garimo says:

    Hi Chinmaya,
    I suspect my story is not so different than many many others in those days. I was just another drop in red wave coming in…
    a wave that came in, and then it went out, gathering momentum… for the next wave.

    I’m wondering who else may have a story for us of their introduction to sannyas?

    -g

  17. Kranti says:

    When we say introduce Dynamic..it need not be dynamic..it can be natraj.. The point here is young people can be introduced to meditation early…

    Infact my understanding of what Osho said is different. He even said children are capable of meditating easily than adults..and that they should be introduced to meditations..

    And when we talk about meditation for school children we are not talking about just one or two techniques.. we are talking giving them an understanding that they are not their mind and there is a space beyond mind..

    I dont agree with the arguement that it is meant fir adults as though we need to wait for adults to fully get corrupted and supressed and then think about active meditations… why think of dynamic of as something very complicatd and suitable for adults.. If youn people practice Natraj or Kundalini meditation everyday after school it will be great for them

    Again we are not talking of forcing meditations down the throat of children.. All the author was sayin is introduce active meditations early..and not all children are going to be interested..whoever interested will take it up..

    Read page 98 of the Osho book called ‘ The New Child ‘

  18. Kranti says:

    Osho says ‘ Children are natural mystics ‘…

    Arguing children dont need meditations & football is enough is equating meditations as an adult stuff….Now the so called adults do dynamic for years..If children learn meditations early with right understanding of what is meditation they may not accumulate stress

    Do you guys think the childrenare not given any other religious bullshit early..Go to any school in India and you can see children being subjected to disgusting forms of religious beliefs and meditations techniques ( false techiques ) which are harmful..

    If scholl children do Osho active meditations like Natraj or Kundalini they will say ‘ go to hell’ to all these religious conditionings and priests

    Yesterday there was huge Lord Ganesh festivale outide my house… There was a very heavy drumming ( Indian Village style drumming which is the loudest form of drumming you can imagine ) Number of young children were dancing ( catharsis ) madly for 3 hours non-stop. I could see how they needed it..

  19. Shahriar says:

    Mediation is a scientific technique. Especially the meditations Osho has designed. If meditation was being used as a tool to feed children beliefs than it would be an abuse of meditation and it would need to be opposed. Otherwise, meditations means freedom from belief and the mind as such. It doesn’t matter whether the mind is hindu, buddhist, christian, muslim or atheist. No-mind is the purpose of meditation.

    Gibberish is one example of a scientific method. The structure of the mind, its foundations is based on language. It would be very difficult to build up concepts, thoughts and ideas without the basic structure of language. Those interested in entering no-mind, would obviously have to put the mind aside. Impling that language would also be put aside. Now what is the purpose of gibberish? Gibberish is using the mechanism of speech, to free a person from the stucture of language and mind. Mind and language develop in relationship and therefore in society. Giberish is non-sensical sounds, it is unpatterned and it is beyond the structure of mind and language. Through this process of gibberish, a person first steps out of the structure of language and simultaneously steps out of the thought-process which we call the mind. One of the requirements in gibberish being totality. This is very important because unless you are total some part of the mind will continue. Through the process of gibberish, the meditator intends to jump out of language and also his mind, but if gibberish is done without jumping out of the thought-process or mind it will not be effective. Therefore, it is essential to be total in one’s gibberish so that no energy is left to fuel the mind and the though process. You can say that it is essential to be totally absorbed in the process of gibberish. Another necessity is to put an end to the division between means and ends. This is a barrier in the process of gibberish because it does not allow you to move totally into gibberish, it does not allow you to be absorbed totally. Some part of you remains behind. The division between means and ends, or the result oriented mind, also assumes that the fruit of meditation is to be found in the future, but meditation happens now. The jump into No-mind happens now, and it is not how long you have meditated that is important, but how totally you have meditated. If you meditation is total, in this moment the transformation happens, but totality is essential. Now totality implies a few things, there is no ambition in total absorbtion because ambition is interested in the result, not in the act. Another thing which is implied is that there is no time-consciousness. Time-consciousness means that you are interested in the future and therefore you are not totally absorbed in the act of gibberish. This will not allow you to go beyond the mind and language, because as long as
    time-onsciousness exists, you cannot enter into No-mind, which can also be called the present. From what I have said, you can see the basis of the meditative process, so how can you say that meditation is not scientific, any scientist would be convinced of my explanation of meditation. Although, if people start abusing meditation and try to impose beliefs alongside meditation, I will firmly oppose them. Meditation may even be easier for children because their minds are not as developed as adults and the jump into No-mind would be simpler for them. And of course, the joy and ecstacy which comes from an absence of time-consciousness, an end to the result oriented mind and totality should be enough motivation for any person to meditate, but meditation is not a means to an end. Joy and ecstasy are consequences of meditation, not the direct result. Meditation is to be valued in itself and not because it can provide joy and ecstasy, otherwise you will never be able to enter into meditation if you remain with the result-oriented mind. Just as love is an end unto intself. Just as a woman is an end unto herself. She is not a means to an end. She is not an object that is there to provide sexual satisfaction and do your chores for you. So please understand with what attitude you are approaching meditation, because meditation is not a thing to be used. Just as a woman is not a thing to be used. And you might be able to pretend when you are with a woman that you love her, even though sex is your interest. But you cannot deceive meditation in that way.

  20. Shahriar says:

    Meditate without an eye to/for the result. Meditate for meditation itself, otherwise you will never enter into meditation. And don’t think that you can play tricks with meditation either, if you are result-oriented, if you are time-conscious, if you are not total, if you don’t value meditation for itself, it doesn’t matter who you are, meditation will not happen with that attitude.

  21. Dilruba says:

    when Osho is saying ” children are natural mystics ” he means children dont need a technique … as they dont need to practice any thing .. they are natural … only when one looses their innocence one gets frustrated ..

    Kranti … somehow l feel it implies to replace religion with meditation … it should be ones choicelessness only then will one truly enjoy it .. this way there is more beauty … the beauty is in exploring !

    l feel Herclitus & Shantam are right in that sense about meditation
    for adult seekers ..

    Baawra … lam sure most of the seekers know what Sudarhan kriya is … it is a poor copy of dynamic meditation .. and maybe you discuss it with the AOL practitioners .. this forum is Dedicated to Osho .. lam not being arrogant but stating the truth

  22. Shahriar says:

    “Kranti … somehow l feel it implies to replace religion with meditation … it should be ones choicelessness only then will one truly enjoy it .. this way there is more beauty … the beauty is in exploring !”

    Dilruba I agree that if it is not one’s choice, enjoyment will be impossible. But on the otherhand, meditation is enjoyable. So we will have to resolve this contradiction because meditation is such an important thing, but if it is imposed, it would create resentment and hate. You cannot make people meditators with a sword, the way you can make them muslims. (LOL) So I am opposed to imposing anything on people. But I think that seeing a real meditator is a great motivation because the peace, the love, the joy, the ecstasy, the freedom is missing in the rest of the people and this creates a great desire to have what these people have. Just the way seeing and being with an enlightened person awakens your thirst.

  23. Shahriar says:

    “You cannot make people meditators with a sword, the way you can make them muslims.”

    I wrote “(LOL)” but I wanted to write “(LOL, with tears, because it is funny and sad and true at the same time. Sad because unless you become religious out of love and inquiry, your religion will not be authentic, it will just be a belief.)”

  24. shantam prem says:

    So it is clear, it is Swami Garimo,
    And than after the ranch experience, Did you visit Osho in different countries or Poona when the new phase started.
    And as you said
    “But the group/program underwent many changes under the commune direction/control and it became no longer successful as a program and was discontinued.”

    Why the successful programe has to go through the changes and become useless in the process?

    I am trying to understand why the commune(resort) direction/control wants to change that which is beyond their grip, they should stay focus with changing wash basins, marbels, walls, colors etc.?

  25. garimo says:

    baawra writes:
    >>>>”Yes Dynamic works but most indians still believe in non-active meditations. By the way any of you have any idea of AOL’s Sudarshan Kriya ? I heard that concept of doing sudarshan is somewhat similar to Dynamic.
    Can anyone elaborate.”

    It seems Sudarshan Kriya is controlled breaths with sounds attached to inhale and exhale.
    While it may trigger energy movement in the body/mind I imagine the movement will not be as intense as chaotic breaths of no regular patterns, followed by catharsis, silence & celebration.

    Regardless, for someone who is emotionally shut down and shallow breathing is the norm, either method will freak out a person the first time when they see how their body reacts to a sudden increase of oxygen.

  26. shantam prem says:

    You cannot make people meditators with a sword, the way you can make them muslims.”

    I wrote “(LOL)” but I wanted to write “(LOL, with tears, because it is funny and sad and true at the same time. Sad because unless you become religious out of love and inquiry, your religion will not be authentic, it will just be a belief.)”

    Shahriar, may be you are an Old Sannyasin born again?“(LOL)

  27. garimo says:

    Shantamlove… what’s your story?

  28. Shahriar says:

    It is possible Shantam because all these Old sannyasins when they die will take birth again, but I don’t remember my past lives so I couldn’t say with certainty. Just a possibility!

    Love.

  29. Dilruba says:

    Garimo .. l felt so much feminine energy from you … probably meditation does make one more feminine … l guess …

  30. garimo says:

    Gender is a spectrum.
    both extremes and everything in between.

    Perhaps just hormones.

  31. garimo says:

    As are judgments, extremes and everything in between.

  32. Dilruba says:

    yes Dear … l agree with you garimo … it is a spectrum … but you never mentioned before this … Swami / Maa .. for that matter very few us need to mention that ….

  33. Kranti says:

    Dilruba..thats why i refered to page 98 of that Osho book….No arrogance meant .. Please read that book..it is beautiful book on Osho vision of The New Child

    somehow wekeep taking about Osho vision The New Man only

    Osho didnt mean like waht you said.. he said children will take to meditations easily than adults since they are closer to source…

    There are other discorses also where Osho has clearly said children need to be introduced to meditation easily

  34. Shahriar says:

    I am reminded of a story Osho used to tell:

    There is an enlightened man, on his way to heaven. His name, if I remember correctly, was Narada. (or Naranda) On his way he sees an ascetic repeating mantras, half-naked under a tree. The ascetic recognizes Narada and asks him “can you ask God how long it is going to take for me to realize enlightenment?” “Ok, I’ll ask him and tell you when I come back.” replies Narada and walks on, until he comes to a man singing under his tree, playing on his flute and absolutely unconcerned with God and truth and enlightenment. Jokingly Narada asks him if he would also like to know how long he it is going to take until he become enlightened. The man ignores him and continues to dance and play on his flute, forcing Narada to repeat himself. At which the young man replies “You don’t have to bother unless you want to”. So Narada walks off to see God and soon he is on his way back to the earth. He makes his way to the ascetic and tells him “God said that it will take you three more lives before you become enlightened.” “What?! Do you know how long I have been repeating mantras? Do you know how long I have been torturing myself with celibacy and fasting and eating where I shit?! And that sonofabitch dares to tell me that I have three lives left still?!?!” says the ascetic. Narada afraid the ascetic might hit him next if he doesn’t get out of there, turns and walks as fast as he can towards the flute playing youth. Seeing him enjoying his dance and song, he becomes afraid to tell him, after seeing how the ascetic reacted to his words. But he sees the young man inviting him to sing and dance with him, so reluctantly he goes towards the youth. He says to him “I asked God how many lives it would take for you to become enlightened, and he said that as many lives as there are leaves on the tree you are dancing under.” At which, the face of the young man lights up in joy “Really? Just as many as under this tree, then God is compassionate, merciful, because there are so many leaves in the whole forest that just this many is not much.” At which it is said the young man becomes enlightened. I like this story alot, it is very clear so I won’t comment on it, but it does seem to me that when you are not ambitious, when your mind is not result oriented, when time-consciousness is not there, in this moment life is a joy, a song, a dance. What jesus calls the kingdom of heaven, this moment you enter into it.

    Live. (I accidentally wrote Live instead of Love but it seemed to be fitting so I didn’t delete it.)

    P.S. I’m usually not a very good story teller when speaking to people, but it just struck me that it is because I am in so much of a hurry that I cannot take the time to weave the story and perform the “act” of storytelling.

    Love.

  35. Kranti says:

    Shantam you say ‘ just for an experiment sake persude five of your family members to listen Osho ”

    Thats exactly where the problem lies.. Do you think al adults immediately recognize and accept the need for meditations and that too active meditations? Adults have BIG ego.. Thats why Osho says children need to be introduced to meditatations early..

    Everyone on this forum.. if you have not read please read Osho book titled ‘ The New Child ‘ We will be on same page when it comes to Osho vision on meditation for children

  36. Dilruba says:

    Sorry dear no references for me … this is what happens when one reads and tries to understand … Osho is not a book Dear … one has to live him..no book references will do .. it has to be direct knowing !

  37. Dilruba says:

    the response was or you … Kranti Dear …

  38. Kranti says:

    ” this is what happens when one reads and tries to understand … Osho is not a book Dear … one has to live him..no book references will do ”

    Dilruba… You seem to get hurt every time i refer to something , a book or discourse from some other master etc..All i did was to refer to what Osho SAID not what he wrote… Osho didnt write anything.. The book i reffered is not for reading for knowledge..It was what Osho spoke…Just by reading what Osho said when he was in body will not mean we are turning bookish

    Osho is certainly not a book.. What he said about Children meditating also is not aout understanding some theory.. It is not a question of Osho ..What you say is applies to master.. ” one has to live him ‘

    My understanding of Osho is everytime i read or listen to Osho there is always something fresh and deeper understanding waiting.. I dont close myself thinking i have already understood Osho completely .. Infact i read or listen to every master available.. You never know what will it you and when..

  39. Kranti says:

    i mean ‘ What you say iapplies to any master “

  40. Dilruba says:

    yes my dear its very easy to take references from compilations / edited versions / … l know He has not written any book .. but there are several instances where you / neo Vivek lack the living experiance of being in a commune life .. and you talk of neo teachers … even Shahriar seems to have this wisdom .. you guys do need to be a exposed to commune living .. its better you live at least with one master totally instead of making a cocktail of Osho … l say this with awareness

  41. Kranti says:

    Mm.. I respect your views on what you can learn in a commune life.. I would have been happier if i had got a chance to live in the commune when Osho was in the body..

    But tell me something.. after Osho left the body where was the commune? Are you referring to the residential programs provided at Pune..is that what you refer to as ‘ commune ‘ life? Or you have lived as part of any other commune experiment..Please share your experiences ..It will help us appreciate more what you are saying..

    you also say ‘ better you live at least with one master ‘

    Are you talking about actual living when master in body or just the aspect of following one master..

    But in my view it is good to listen to few teachers atleast if you are only listening readin but not actually being with a living master.. They all have a way of expressing truth..although falling in love with a living master and being with him is very different

  42. Kranti says:

    ” instead of making a cocktail of Osho … l say this with awareness”

    I would not only make cocktail of Osho but will mix a few spices from adya and mooji..then it becomes such a punch..

    Osho has a poetic way of expressing truth.. He always leaves a gap & waits for you to make the jump…He not only points out truth but also makes the journey beautiful..

    But i also feel that at times Osho can misunderstood ..I got struck at some point and thats why i started listening to other masters to see how they point out truth from different angles..we can get caught at a point where it is just all about dancing and laughing and having relationships & nothing more.. The core aspect of awareness is becoming aware that there is no ME or person behind the body-mind mechanism..

    Somone like Adya or Mooji or Ramesh Balsekar or Ramana or Nisardatta are very direct in pointing out..that there is NO ‘ ME ‘ behind all the thoughts and emotions..straight like an arrow..

    Infact i appreciate Osho more and love him more once i undrstood what other teachers also point out.. I was awe struck by the understanding Osho had about human mind and how he delivered the message based on who is listening….He only point to truth but also help us move towards truth dancing not with a long face..

    when garimo pointed out the ‘ About Us ‘ explanaion of sannyasnews i took a look..Part of the descrption goes like this

    ” We are particularly interested in giving wider exposure to the full range of teachers who were Osho’s disciples. These include, Nadeen, Maitreya, Tyohar, Kiran, Dolano, Samdarshi, Tony Parsons, Mikaire and others. In addition we are reporting any recent developments of those advaita or other teachers at whose satsangs sannyasins figure prominently – from Almaas to ShantiMayi, from Balsekar to Eckhart Tolle.”

    It really helps to keep awareness strong when we read / listen to all these teachers although you may not feel intune with everyone of them…and thats alright..i have learned not to hold on tight to Osho only..truth is truth..I am open to drink truth from anyone..although i celebrate the journey as Osho points out..

  43. Dilruba says:

    Kranti … l came to Osho in feb 92 … Osho was not in the body … but let me tell you .. l did have a lot of pain that l could not see him … and always cried .. then l did meet a lot of fellow travellers who told me that Osho is not the body … l live with that trust … even to this moment … and l feel him … whatever that means

    l truely dont have any idea about the residential programme they offer … never found the need to .. l dropped my job & came to Poona … lived in several places in koregaon park .. like a gypsy … for few years with my boyfriend … but did worship in the ashram in many departments .. at the most l asked for worker sticker .. as at one time l couldn’t afford it ..maybe nearly 5yrs in this way … then being there part time 3hrs … with my own entrance sticker ..

    but guess every one has their way of connecting with the Master … but the feeling of Sangha is very necesary .. that is missing … with you guys .. but still l tell you … its possible .. one always finds the way if one wants to .. for that matter it is an individual journey … practicalities are part of everyones life … l dont know what else to say … at this moment !

  44. Kranti says:

    ” l did have a lot of pain that l could not see him … and always cried .”

    Yes Dilruba.. It is the same with me..I went around always asking people who lived when Osho was in body to see what i missed…

    Even today i posted a question to prem bubbie & Johny on this..

    I missed Osho terribly because when i was 16 …in 1986 someone gave me a Osho book and i read few pages and gave it bcak.. Now i feel it must have een an invitation from master but i was not receptive..

    Infact that may be the reason i am more desperate towards understanding truth..what Osho pinted out.. I love Osho to the extent that i search for awareness and truth in everything i do.. He certainly created that fire in heart

    So i understand what you are pointing at….

    But because he is not in body i dont want to equate Osho with just dancing and laughing.. i want to go deeper…to get closer to what he points out

  45. Kranti says:

    Dilruba

    You would have see this Osho video already.. But see again ..This is from me to you with Love… I loved the way Osho was laughing in this video


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  46. Kranti says:

    ” l dropped my job & came to Poona … lived in several places in koregaon park .. like a gypsy ”

    Wish i had the courage you had.. I still hold on to secured job and all..May be i would have done it if i had been with Osho when he was in body..

  47. Dilruba says:

    Kranti .. do not miss now Dear !

  48. shantam prem says:

    but the feeling of Sangha is very necessary .. that is missing … with you guys ..

    It is not fault of these guys, the sole responsibility lies with those ego junkies who killed the concept of Sangha, the commune. Instead of confronting the probelms on the way, they have choosen the easy way, where other than God, nobody can shake their base.

    For me, they are the sick souls with psycho path mentality.
    May be few of them were thinking that Osho will appoint them as successor in reward of their services, when instead of rewarding an individual Osho pumped His energy into all His sannyasins, present and future, it is a sense of revenge, these ladies and gentlemen are taking.

    It is a tragic comedy of our time.

  49. Dilruba says:

    yes Shantam … now probably only the persons who butter the power -centre get the priveledge of the Sangha / perhaps truly the ones who still have the faith in the Mystry school will taste the Sangha .. l feel …

  50. garimo says:

    SP wrote:
    >>I am trying to understand why the commune(resort) direction/control wants to change that which is beyond their grip, they should stay focus with changing wash basins, marbels, walls, colors etc.?”

    could it be because sannyasins think their way is the best way and think “this time let’s fuck it up my way”…

  51. garimo says:

    SP wrote:
    << “the sole responsibility lies with those ego junkies who killed the concept of Sangha, the commune.”

    I noticed on video link Dilruba posted the title says something like “an evening of life, love and laughter with Osho and his listeners”.

    I had the feeling Osho valued his gathering of sannyasins as more then mere “listeners”.

  52. Dilruba says:

    Garimo l have not posted any link on this forum uptil now ! Pleasre check again

  53. Dilruba says:

    that is Kranti’s link

  54. shantam prem says:

    Garimo-
    I had the feeling Osho valued his gathering of sannyasins as more then mere “listeners”.

    I think most of us have heard Him saying about curiosity mongers, students, disciples, devotees and beyond.
    His concept of commune was like a Dublin Pub where all of these can meet, merge and share the choicest of wines and whiskeys, naturally Evian and Espresso also.

    The present day Resort; it is Starbucks!
    (Sorry Starbucks)

  55. Dilruba says:

    yes Kranti when there are seekers like you … they have to come on residential programmes … no wonder the ashram has taken this step .. because now there are few authentic seekers … & they{authentic seekers} will come anyway … they dont need to ask .. about the practicalities .. you want everything on platter .. lam sorry but l had to share this !

  56. garimo says:

    I don’t really know what lable would be best to describe the gathering, but I’m thinking he called us his friends more often than he called us his listeners.
    Listeners to me just sounds like the flavor is was removed. I suspect someone has their reasons.

    Oh well, just another observation of the video that *Kranti* posted for *Dilruba*…

  57. shantam prem says:

    But I think that seeing a real meditator is a great motivation because the peace, the love, the joy, the ecstasy, the freedom is missing in the rest of the people and this creates a great desire to have what these people have. Just the way seeing and being with an enlightened person awakens your thirst.

    The above paragraph from Shahriar depicts the picture of commune. Osho was preparing us for this day, when he is no more there but thousands of people go on creating an atmosphare, an energy invitation, so that motivation jump happens.

    We all can watch all the movies on the TV and on the net but the impact of the Cinema atmosphare is different, so is the commune, it is different.
    One can read all the university books of a subject just in few months but tô be there for years is a different experience.

    Instead of reparing the leakage of the roof, smart guys simply took away the roof.

    Out of my own experience, i say this again and again, other than His discourses, His creation of commune is one of the biggest gift to the humanity.
    Discourses are theory, commune was the workshop, the Lab.
    without this too, the journey never stops. For thousands of years, people are meditating,few touch the peak too.
    With Osho this peak experience is suppose to be not for the fews but for many…

  58. Neo Vivek says:

    Dear Dilruba

    I appreciate your candor and I heard what you said. I will not post here as my lack of experience of commune/ sangh life seems to spoil the beauty of posts here. I will continue to read the amazing talks you all have on this beautiful forum.

    Love

    Neo Vivek

  59. garimo says:

    In solidarity with Neo Vivek, I also will not post.

  60. Dilruba says:

    Please there is a dissillusioned that one leaves because of any / somebody body else … it is ones own will / choicelessness … l donot take any responsibility for anybody going or coming … l was stating the truth ..

    but if Kranti /Garimo / Neo Vivek feel l have gone over board .. l apologise .. my intention is not to hurt anybody ..

  61. Kranti says:

    I dont equate some kind of commune living with authentic seeking.. Authentic seekers can simpley sit at home and get awakened..

    I do appreciate commune style living and as i said i missed the period when Osho was in body.. But after Osho left i dont think there was a commune in Oune ..There are many other places where real communes existed / exist..

    I live and breath Osho.. I try to be aware every moment..to me that is authentic seeking

    I am also deeply hurt.. I want to be honest about it..Let me take a break from posting

  62. Kranti says:

    Dilruba.. I dont have anything against you.. You have your views..I look at the way you value your experiences ..thats is good.

    But i dont want to post messages when people look at me as someone who have not gone through the commune life and thereby doesnt have the knowledge ( ? ) to discuss… Deep inside i know how much love i have for Osho and how i have devoted my last 17 years for being aware

    There seems to be a opinion also that Seekers who are not real / authentic only need residential programs and Pune is offering that because of such people.

    Let me atleast take a break from this thread and come back later

  63. shantam prem says:

    Oh My God, what is happening?
    Dilruba, you have gone a bit overboard.

    Kranti-
    “I dont equate some kind of commune living with authentic seeking.. Authentic seekers can simpley sit at home and get awakened..”

    this is so true. If commune living was able to create diamonds out of stones, we would have already thousands of awakend hearts.
    Hundred thousands have got the privelege to be in Osho’s Live presence…is the contribution of such people is more than others in the outer and inner revolution. Nobody will think so.
    Commune is a good tool like the famous AK 47.
    without this too, killings will go on happening. ( Killings i mean as inner process, nothing to do with crusade and Jihad inthe usual sense)

    I hope seekers on Osho^s path will go on sharing their notes, where ever there is a need, when ever heart says YES.
    At this moment i just remember the Poem IF by Rudyard Kipling.

  64. shantam prem says:

    Vivek-

    Dear Dilruba

    I appreciate your candor and I heard what you said. I will not post here as my lack of experience of commune/ sangh life seems to spoil the beauty of posts here. I will continue to read the amazing talks you all have on this beautiful forum.

    Love

    Neo Vivek

    Dear Vivek,
    Our energy is not to create resort or hotel, thinking if one goes another will come.
    We are the ashram, we are the commune spread all over the globe. Every departure is a painful and teary one and one must ask ” Please, go away but take the commune with you and come again and again, and never go because of some pain or anger but holidays are over”.

    atleast here we are mentioning the reasons for example
    Garimo wrote-
    “In solidarity with Neo Vivek, I also will not post.”
    Such are the human sensibilites, thousands stopped coming to Pune because of some solidarity, if one country behave stupid with one’s own citizens or others, people stop buying the products of that land.

    How it is written this famous sannyas song-we are one in the infinite sun forever and ever and ever.

    and see, here we don’t have the outer management,
    Diruba has written-
    but if Kranti /Garimo / Neo Vivek feel l have gone over board .. l apologise .. my intention is not to hurt anybody ..

    So beloved ones, i feel as a very small pilot project, we can be able to create a prototype, where hurt feelings, and different prospectives can co exist.

    My suggestion, everybody pay their own and we order some chai or coffee.
    and here is one sms joke making round in India.

    Gay rights are taking momentum in India. Courts are in favour of granting equal rights of enjoyment to them.
    so one tailor asked His customer while taking measurement,” Sir, Will you prefer Zip on the back side too!.”

  65. Dilruba says:

    this is the last joke l heard in the Osho Auditorium from OSHO .. lam not so good with references about number of the discourse :
    Ernie is playing with his electric toy train in the living room .. overlooking the kitchen where his mother is cooking … Ernie’s toy train takes one circle and stops Ernie says to his imagined passengers ” Dear passengers hope you had a good journey and if anyone has any complains please inform that F*g Station Master in his office ” .. the mother on hearing this says ” Ernie dont use such bad language ” Ernie continues playing .. then the 2nd circle takes a bit longer than the first one … when it stops he says ” Dear passengers hope you had a good journey and if anyone has any complains please inform that F*g Station Master in his office” on hearing this for the 2nd time his mother takes him by his hand and makes him stand in one corner for 1/2 an hour & then says Ernie hope you are sorry and wont use that word again to which he nods ..
    Ernie goes back to playing now the 3rd circle is complete & he says ” Dear Passengers hope you had a good journey and this time you have any complains go to that Bitch in the Kitchen ” !

  66. Shahriar says:

    For christ’s sake, will you all get over you goddamned whining! LOL.

    It’s funny how Jesus Christ has become a curse word.

  67. Kranti says:

    For christ’s sake people wil become only sad..

    Someone should take courage to paint Jesus in a happy state ..like a dancing jesus in churches..

    See Loard Ganesh of Hindus.. He is used in any manner to refelect people’s happiness…

    Think Pope will be the first one to object…Then people will know how pshychologically sick pope is..and how he has vested interest in having a sad christ

    Until then let us celebrate for Osho’s sake..

    ‘ The car hit her and a hundred yards away he stopped and looked back.

    “Watch out!” he shouted.

    The woman raised herself on her elbow and screamed, “Why — are you coming back?”

    Lets come back and post…

  68. Dilruba says:

    Yes Kranti … we all are Fellow – Travellers … at the End / Begining of it … each one has had their unique experiance of being with the Master / otherwise …

    somehow in this pain / joy of sharing .. there is nothing personal … its jus a ” True-alization ” that one is sharing is choicelessness of it all .. as long as we move ahead .. Chareveti .. Chareveti !

  69. Kranti says:

    Yes..Everyone has their own journey…..

    Few people were fortunate to be in a commune..

    Few had other environments which is condusive to spritual growth..

    I have worked in big corporates for 15 years which have fully tested my awareness.. seen how low people can fall to maintain relationships which will benefit them..in the midst such chaos & contstant back stabbing one nedded to be aware

    Have also seen people whose intelligence is not allowed to grow and nipped in the bud..who just cant dis identify little bit with mind inspite of all the suffering..still strongly believing their thoughts

    In that sense a Shariar is fortunate..Recently i was in conversation with cousin of mine who is just 20 plus and but talks about advaita / Human pshychology as well as anyone can.. I was immensely happy for her

    So it all depends ..you enever know how awareness in different individulas grow / allowed to grow..

    In a previous thread Merlina posted similar thoughts…If we are here discussing with / about awareness we are lucky.. Thanks to Osho for stregnthening the same..

  70. Dilruba says:

    Yes the the young generation in that sense has much more exposure … Due to the time / age we are living in … l guess all ages have their own advantages / disadvantages … but beauty / ugliness ..

    Gratitude for the Master for always Reminding me / us … for Choiceless Awareness

  71. Dilruba says:

    ‘ but ‘ is not needed …

  72. Kranti says:

    On the one hand we think a master comes and makes us aware..but even to recognize a master and get interested some sort of awareness / openess must be already there..So in reality life/awareness operates on its own .. there seems to be no ‘ person ‘ behind all these..

  73. Dilruba says:

    yes Kranti this is the Truth

  74. Dear readers !
    I must confess that not always I get the wright man but this time,there ´s an enquiery going in the Heart!
    I came to the world of meditation thru Osho´s grace but had played with lots of psychadelic stuff*,and at last came to pune purely by chance as I was on my way to north of India,but as the train we were travelling with,(my girl friend and her two lovely children Luke and Hana!), stoped over in Pune I decided to stay and the girl friend to go!
    Here this whole jurney begun where an enquiery about life ,living and Lsd´s were in check!
    To my surprise I found that lots of places in meditation has it´s counterpart in drug experments i had with and lots of similarities!

  75. Shahriar says:

    I sometimes ask why everyone cannot have truth and ecstacy and joy and love etc. etc. etc. and it is not that people cannot have it but that people are not open to receive it, some the responsibility (or perhaps all of the responsiblity?) is with themselves because they do not have to suffer and there is no way to blame the economic system, or the political system etc. for the world that human beings have created. They have created this world, and unconsciousness will go on creating misery and suffering and hell for you till you take the responsibility for your own awareness. It is not possible to blame others for your unconsciousness and taking responsibility for your own unconsciousness and the suffering, misery and hell that you create for yourself is the first step to awareness. So I feel compassion for human beings in so far as they are open to receive it, and in so far as they are responsible I do not feel compassion. You cannot blame anyone else for your suffering and your misery and your hell. Irresponsibility makes you a slave. Irresponsibility makes you dependant. If you want freedom than take the responsibility for your own unconsciousness and suffering and misery and hell. Otherwise you will never get out of it. No enlightened person can force you towards truth or awareness or bliss or joy or ecstacy. No one can be violent with you, so if you are irresponsible and you suffer because of your lack of awareness, you are responsible for it and no one else. I will not console you into sleepiness, I am not your enemy, otherwise I would help you rationalize your suffering and misery and throw the responsibility on someone else. You are responsible, and you suffer because of your own lack of awareness. Because of your lack of awareness you continue to create hell for yourself without recognizing how you create hell, you continue to create misery and suffering for yourself. If this hurts, good, because it is supposed to hurt. Truth is not going to cooperate with you sleepiness by helping you to dream better. Truth is going to shock, it is going to hit you hard, otherwise how will you ever wake up? Do you think that people think of truth when there is no suffering, no misery, no hell? As long as you are unconscious these things will remain so that you can be helped towards consciousness and awareness. So suffering, misery and hell are hidden friends because they motivate you to become aware and conscious, otherwise there would be no motivation and your whole life would be one long, sweet dream. And I repeat that I am not going to console you by helping you justify your misery and suffering; I am not going to help you become comfortable with your misery and hell either. The opposition towards blissful, joyous and ecstatic persons is because they do not console you. They do not allow you to remain in your misery and hell, they create a comparision and it hurts because there are only two ways. Either you destroy them and continue sleeping, thinking that everyone is in the same boat or you take the challenge and become aware. And the second option is difficult so usually people just try to destroy or justify that these people are “hypnotized” or “dreaming” or some other way of avoiding the painful truth of accepting that we are responsible for out unconsciousness, suffering, misery and hell.

  76. Shahriar says:

    You are responsible. It is because of yourself that you suffer and are miserable and in hell. Not because of someone else. The sooner you acknowledge this, the sooner you can get to work becoming aware. And there is a great motivation to become aware for those who have known misery, suffering and hell and also for those who have seen the blissful, the joyous the ecstatic. When joyous, blissful and ecstatic persons are seen, a great thirst arises to have what they have and this is a great help to those who are on the path of awareness because the proof is before them, the result of awareness is manifest before their very eyes, the joy, the bliss, the ecstacy, the silence, the peace, is so very tangible and real that you can almost touch and it is because of this that people are willing to become aware. The presence of such people is an indication and a declaration that his is their possibility also. And the sooner you acknowledge that this is your possibility also, the sooner you will start walking. Even though there is no hurry, the more you postpone, the more suffering you will undergo, procrastination is not bad but it is very expensive. So if you want to suffer, go ahead and suffer, but if you want to enjoy, than this is the way. But if you want to delight without becoming aware, than you are going wrong.

  77. Kranti says:

    ” if you are irresponsible and you suffer because of your lack of awareness, you are responsible for it and no one else.”

    Who is responsible?

    Unawareness = Suffering

    Awareness = No suffering

    they say there is no person ( sufferer ) behind suffering

  78. Shahriar says:

    There is someone behind the suffering, that someone is awareness and even the people who are suffering have a small amount of awareness. They have enough awareness to know that they are suffering, and this awareness increases when they see someone who is blissful and ecstatic and they see that yes this person is ecstatic and if they don’t rationalize and justify their misery than this become a great opportunity for them because they can start becoming aware. Humans are not insentient beings, that is why they are in so much agony and for this same reason why their ecstacy is so glorious.

  79. Kranti says:

    ” Absense of individual sense of self is no suffering”

    This is what the understanding that seems to arise..but to no one in particular..not to a person..This is what seems to be directly pointed out by all the teaching

    So you cant blame someone who is suffering and you cant appreciate someone who is aware..it is a process happening on its own..

  80. Kranti says:

    ” their ecstacy is so glorious ”

    This is what i am ( awareness in me ) trying to understand..

    Sometimes i seems enlightened master make a big hype about ‘ ecstacy ‘ that we start longing for some spectacular orgamic exeperiences.. Am honestly not sure whether anything like that exists

    Sometime bacl Andreas who used to regularly post here on this forum highlighted this aspect even with Osho.. I resisted it at that time..

    Now i am looking at it very objectively.Is there really something called ‘ ecstacy ‘ as we understand?

  81. Kranti says:

    The rason why i posted the above is i understood from listening to some new teachers that awareness is awareness.. It is living in reality whateve it is.. it should not always be equated with some glorius orgasmic exeperiences and such expectations themselves stop us from being aware..

    I dont kow.. I am just sharing what i am currently learning.. Shariar ..Please share your thoughts on this..

  82. Shahriar says:

    Awareness to me means that I can be joyous, blissful and ecstatic. Sometimes I am peaceful, sometimes relaxed, sometimes ecstatic and blissful. These things seem to me to be natural to one who is aware because an aware person does not create misery and suffering for themselves. I have also suffered in my life, I have also been miserable, but I have been responsible all along. When I knew that I was responsible, whether I acknowledged it is different. But responsible I was. Awareness doesn’t lead to ecstacy like cause and effect, or action and result, but through awareness ecstacy comes as a byproduct and there is no “desire” for ecstacy. Sometimes it is there, and then we enjoy it, and sometimes it is not there and we enjoy the absence, the silence, the peace. But suffering is not there unless you need some more maturity and the same with misery. If you fall back into your old habit of unconsciousness and unawareness then misery and suffering will come back. Why shouldn’t there be something like ecstacy and blissfulness and joy? Isn’t your misery real? Isn’t your suffering real? Isn’t your hell real? So why shouldn’t ecstacy, bliss and joy be real? The most probable reason that teachers do not talk of such things is that it might make you desirous of them and desire cannot help. But physcially, there is nothing saying that you cannot be ecstatic, blissful and joyous. There is no law enforcing misery and suffering on you.

    My understanding is that joy, ecstacy and blissfulness are the natural evolution of your sex energy. When your sex energy is unaware then it flows downwards towards sex and when it becomes aware, then it starts to flow upwards towards higher joys, ecstasies and blissfulnesses. Awareness plus sex energy equals joy, ecstacy and blissfulness. You know sex, but you don’t know anything beyong it, so awareness will awaken your sex energy and allow it to flow upwards to higher creativities and ecstasies. Awareness leads your sex energy upwards and unawareness leads it downwards. Because of this, sex is good. Sex is a seed and samadhi is the flower and awareness is the alchemy which transforms lead into gold, sex into samadhi. BUT when you do become ecstatic, joyous, blissful, rejoice in it, don’t start creating problems, don’t ask “am I imagining it? Perhaps its just a dream?”…..Because you never ask whether your suffering, your misery and your hell are real, you simply assume that they are real, but suddenly when it comes to ecstacy, you ask whether it is real or imaginary. So ecstacy is just the natural transformation that comes to your sex energy when you become aware. Awareness transforms sex energy and opens up higher pleasures, bliss, joy, ecstasy etc.

    I speak AS IF I know, but please don’t take me seriously.

    Love.

  83. Shahriar says:

    And I act as if I am aware but please do not get the wrong impression, it was not my intention to say that I am aware and you are not aware.

  84. Shahriar says:

    When I said that I was responsible all along when I was in misery and suffering I meant that whether I knew or not, whether I accepted my responsibility or not, It was I who was/is responsible for any suffering, misery and hell that I create for myself and undergo. Responsibility is a great freedom especially when human beings have so much potential for joy, for love, for ecstacy and bliss, silence, creativity, song and dance. BUT it can also become a great curse if you console yourself when you are suffering and you rationalize your misery and suffering and you justify other people’s joy, ecstacy etc. etc. Therefore please beware, because even if responsibility is avoided, you are still responsible for avoiding. No matter what happens you are responsible, otherwise you would be a slave. And would you like to be a slave? Would you like to have no choice and say as far as misery, suffering, hell, ecstacy, joy and bliss are concerned? Would you like these things to be in someone else’s hands? Wouldn’t you like to be able to have some power over your own life?

    I am not sure who I am talking to when I am writing these posts, I am not talking to anyone in particular, I guess I would like to just get these words out so that I can feel content that I have spoken them, If by chance someone hears, well and good, if no one hears, thats ok too. Sometimes when I am offline, I speak outloud to an internal audience and get the satisfaction of having gotten my/a/the message out.

  85. Dilruba says:

    Yes Shahriar … we are all Blessedly – Cursed without any exception ..lam / we are writing for ourself .. in that sense other does not exist .. lam / we are responding to what is happening in the moment !

  86. ‘ These techniques should become part of every school and university program around the world … and maybe one day they will!!! ‘

    I am a student at UC Berkeley in San Francisco — as a premier university — I can say that we turn out a good thousand nut jobs a year > both corporate oppressors/desensitized future generation holders and = sadist and masochist a like. Meditation should be a part of EVERY university.

    The level of pain inflicted on young adults through the system of the university is horrendous, extensive, and should be completely illegal. When you are this young often times your parents are not there to help you clarify intention and deceptions of faculty,staff, and curriculum. Also, you your self are so fresh – American dream + good education + some cunning predatory skills = money, love, admiration, sex – in the minds of those who have not had their first job this is DANGEROUS. The sad part is suicide is often the only option for many kids who are not able to retreat to our families (probably the case with MORE American homes) and/or cannot find the success they seek at school.

    For me upon arrival I wanted to go home – by the 2nd year I wanted to die… had a 5 year break … just came back to school 1.5 years ago and I wanted to die again. TODAY only by the grace of OSHO can I laugh through my classes and I have no plans for my future – today is enough.

    This is a very serious call for all sannyasins and their children to beware. My take is the Ko Husan School needs to be reconsidered — if it didn’t financial stand that is a much lesser problem than it not working for the kids. I am actually thinking about conceiving my first this winter and can only hope that there is a place sannyas-wise for little ones. My best chance right now is home-schooling + Tibetan Buddhism Dharma Learning center. This is good — but thinking about who they will play with and who they will date I am very concerned. I look around my classroom and think these are all the future parents and employers of my little ones I am frightened to think what the future holds for them.

    ** Please email chaitanyomahima@gmail.com if you are a student or parent with a student interested in starting a student run club at Berkeley. I am very intested and need some “signers” to be interested as well.
    OR email if you what to share ANYTHING — I love sharing EVERYTHING.

    I wish that you all may find the conditions for happiness.
    LOVE, Chaitanyo

  87. Harri Om says:

    I am sorry but did I here someone ask who really poisened Osho?

    The idea of Osho being poisoned by United States authorities makes for a good story, but as has been regularly pointed out, it does not fit with Osho’s circumstances. For the two years following The Ranch break-up Osho at least appeared to be in reasonably health. He has admittedly said that since that time he has felt some deterioration in his health. However what does not make sense is the dramatic turn of events that occurred when Osho had a minor ear infection that simply would not heal. As explained by Osho, he spent the next 7 weeks gravelly ill in a battle of life and death. It was this sudden and rapid deterioration, of which he never seemed to recover from, that struck me.

    During his returning to better health discourse he kept repeating 7 weeks, and also kept referring to it all starting with an ear infection. This discourse was given on the 6th November, 1987. Hence 7 weeks prior to this takes us to around the 19th of September, 1987. The unusual thing about the minor ear infection is that it simply would not heal.

    There have been many theories of how Osho was poisoned, with the most notable one being that of the heavy metal Thallium poisoning. Also, it has been noted that it takes around 8 weeks for the Thallium to disappear from the body. Dr Amrito, Osho’s personal physician was of the view that it could have been fluorocarbon. Osho no doubt valued Dr Amrito’s opinion – as Osho was fond of saying, Dr Amrito is a fellow of the Royal Society of Physicians in England, and the youngest member at that. There were many other professional opinions, and there was also the notion of Nitrous Oxide poisoning – excess usage in the dental chair over a long period.

    The tact taken in this report differs from all previous accounts that I am aware of. For me it was always the ear infection which stood out (apart from the 7 weeks). It was not until I discovered the brilliance of Shakespeare that I started wondering.

    In Shakespeare’s ‘Hamelet’ Claudius poisoned Hamlets father by pouring a vial of a deadly poison into his ear while he was having an afternoon nap: ”with juice of cursed hebenon in a vial, and in the porches of my ears did pur the leperous distilment…that swift as quicksilver … courses through the natural gates and alleys of the body…Thus was I, sleeping, by a brother’s hand, of life, of crown, of queen, at once dispatched.”

    It was a discovery of the time that it was possible for fluid to pass from the middle ear to the back of the nose and throat. It was thought that this was caused by an ear infection causing a membrane to perforate. Hence it was known that a poison administered through the ear can actually be ingested. With the wisdom of modern medicine, it is now known that this passage is not the result of infection, and is called the Eustachian tube.

    Ear infections were frequent at the time, and as mentioned it was thought that a perforated ear drum meant that a liquid in the ear can pass through the perforation and travel to the back of the throat. Hence at the time of Shakespeare’s writings there was an account of a French surgeon being suspected of killing the King of France by giving him an ear infection.

    Two fictional references that involve poisoning via the Eustachian tube include:

    Huizinga E: Murder through the ear. Pract Oto-rhino-laryng, 1971.
    Kan JA: Atropine poisoning in Hawthane’s The Scarlet Letter. NEJM

    In the non-fictional domain we have the following reference:
    Eclectic medical journal, Volume 22 – 1863, Ohio State Eclectic Medical Association, Worthington College (Ohio). Reformed Medical Dept
    pp43-44 On Secret Poisoning – A paper having this terrible title was read by Professor Harley, at the Meeting of the British Association, held last month at Cambridge…yet he was sorry to say he could not but repeat the statement he made last year in a paper on slow poisoning, read before the Royal Medico-Chirurgical Society of London….Nay, more, he even went a step further, and declared that he not only believed that we magnified the difficulty of perpetrating the crime, but that we were also inclined to exaggerate the facility of its detection.

    The article goes on to discuss how in small doses a slow death may result in the toxin going undetected.

    The previous 5 pages of the journal discussed medical issues pertaining to the Eustachian tube.

    The Royal Medical and Chirurgical Society of London is now the Royal Society of Medicine.

    Thanks to a google search there is the following text reference:

    Criminal Poisoning: An Investigational Guide for Law Enforcement, … – Google Books Result, by John H. Trestrail – 2000 – Medical – 184 pages
    XI: Thallium as “an untraceable poison,” Pharmacy History, … Huizinga E: Murder through the ear. Pract Oto-rhino-laryng, 1971;33:361-365. …
    books.google.com.au/books?isbn=1588291332…

    Other editions
    Edition 2 – 2007 – Limited preview
    Edition 1 – 1899 – No preview available

    Also from Google, there has been a scientific study of the effects of thallium on rats:

    Revised Final Report: Toxicity of Thallium (I)
    DW-89922097 between EPA and the U.S. Department of Energy. …. The study was conducted according to EPA TSCA GLP guidelines in place at the time. The …
    oaspub.epa.gov/eims/eimscomm.getfile?p_download_id=471675

    In the comments by a Dr. Koller we have that … extra steps were taken in an attempt to diagnose an unexpected ear lesion that occurred in all groups of rats in this study.

    What about a possible motive? A little discussed but very real personal issue for those close to him was always whether and when you would be replaced by Osho. If you are not his personal physician, dentist, secretary, or indeed financial donor, than who are you? You might say well if a personal aid killed Osho, then what is the use of being an aid to a dead person? If you were Osho’s personal aid when he left the body, then this is how it will stay. You will always be his personal ‘aid’. Also, if for example you were sitting on certain boards of certain trusts and foundations, or if you were a signatory to certain bank accounts, then having that unchanged has certain advantages.

    Let me be very clear here and state that the above proposition is a line of inquiry and is not an accusation.

    The notion of secret poisoning reminds me of all the sanyassins and visitors of the Pune resort who have over the years unknowingly consumed contaminated ‘drinking’ water.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  88. Shahriar says:

    Harri Om, I wonder whether you have ever considered that you might harm Osho’s work with your movement for democratic change. AS IF the votes of the majority offer enough justification for an action when time and time again we have seen the majority make wrong decisions. Socrates was poisoned by a democratic majority vote. And you want those unconscious people making decisions? Do you consider all your actions to be good and right, without thinking that your actions may have harmful consequences? Osho’s work is about becoming conscious not about holding elections, and Harri Om, how much meditation have you done? Any fool can wear a maroon robe and call himself a sannyasin. As if just by calling yourself a sannyasin you have the right to do whatever you want and all your actions are justified. What is your motive, I wonder? Jayesh and Amrito are doing their jobs, and here you are trying to come to power. I wonder whether you are really concerned with truth or whether your concern is purely political. Fellow sannyasins, beware, any fool can pretend to be a sannyasin, and harm Osho’s work. (While pretending that they are helping Osho’s work.) Jayesh and Amrito, however good or bad we might consider them, whatever our opinions of them, are still the managers at Pune. Democracy is opposed to management. If democracy is brought about, Osho’s work will degenerate into political campaigns to win votes and the truth will be forgotten behind the dirty politics which come with democracy and elections. BEWARE.

  89. Shahriar says:

    It seems the Beware was capitalized. If it helps the emphasis that please BEWARE, if not, then please Beware.

  90. Dilruba says:

    Harri Om .. l only read the last line of your last sharing .. really sorry ..

    About contaminated water anywhere in the world .. in that sense purity does not exist anywhere in nature … lam sure you know that by now …

  91. shantam prem says:

    Harri Om’s post and the no thought of the day.

    “Man needs exposures on every point wherever politics has entered in ?
    and it has entered everywhere, in every relationship.
    It has contaminated the whole life of man and it is contaminating continuously.”

    It is a fatc that His people are full with lust for control as any other group of people. We are all one in that sense, somewhere we are even cleverer as we use the best words from Osho to cover our wounds, our ugliness.

    Harri Om, somewhere you are going to much over the board. Osho’s movement has to grwo solutions as per His words, actions and visions.
    They should be even better than democracy. Evolution of His work is underway so many changes will happen in the coming years.
    Movement of democracy is needed in Gadafii’s Libya. 40 years and more just a Colonel is glued to the top post for life.

    Kick those who sit on humanity’s back as a burden.

  92. Shahriar says:

    Democracy is very dangerous, especially when related with Truth, because Truth cannot be decided through the democratic process, and unconscious people are going to choose unconscious leaders. Who can make a judgement about Osho’s work? Who other than an enlightened person is capable of deciding about Osho? Harri Om with his democracy is simply trying to degenerate Osho’s movement by reducing it to politics, campaigns, adds and votes. Osho is concerned with Truth, not with voting about what you “feel” to be right. Democracy is very dangerous. The danger presented by democracy is equal to the danger which a catholic church running Osho’s work would present. Osho’s concern is not politics. In Harri Om’s blong, he is not concerned with meditation or truth. Harri Om is political, and how can someone who is political be allowed to harm the Truth? Osho’s movement is a non-political movement. He is not interested in campaigns and elections and bribes. He is concerned with transforming your consciousness. The transformation of consciousness has nothing to do with Democracy and votes and elections. Democracy means allowing the majority to decide about Truth. How can the majority do that? Did the majority make the right decision when Socrates was alive? When Jesus was alive? When Mansur-al-hallaj was alive? The majority did not even make the right decision when Osho was alive, so how do expect them to make the right decisions after his death? In Osho’s very lifetime, people called him a self-appointed Bhagwan. As if a Bhagwan is decided by a vote. Truth is not decided by votes, elections and politicians running for office. And this fool Harri Om is here talking about democracy, elections and voting. About what? About Truth! Nothing goes through his head either. Harri Om’s concern is not enlightenment or meditation or awareness or consciousness. It is politics and elections. Osho’s concern was not politics and public opinion. He was concerned with Truth. Democracy and politics are concerned with public opinion. The concern of politicians is to win votes and they do not mind sacrificing Truth in the process. Truth is not concerned with public opinion and votes. Truth is a majority of one and falsehood is a majority of 6 billion. Truth cannot be decided by elections and votes. Harri Om is not even enlightened and he wants to decide in what direction Osho’s work should move. As if he is in a position to decide. He is not even willing to reveal his identity. The coward. He speaks as if he knows and as if he is enlightened. He never considers that he is still unconscious and that his work should be in becoming conscious not politics and elections and votes. But No, that is not his way, he writes on his blog instead, trying to gather votes so that he will be able to degenerate Osho’s movement into a political organization. He is trying to distort and pervert the truth so that he fulfill his own ambitions and desires. Pretending that he knows what is right and wrong, as if he is in a position to be able to pass judgement on Truth. Harri Om thinks that he can pretend to be sannyasin. Bring a sannyasin has nothing to do with wearing a maroon robe, even a fool can do that. Being a muslim has nothing to do with praying five times a day, and yet Osama prays five times a day. Terrorists fast on the month of Ramadan. Harri Om thinks that he can talk of democracy, elections and votes, as if he is a sannyasin. To be a sannyasin has nothing to do with the outside. It is something inner. And democracy, elections and vote decide about truth by words and actions. Do you know that the Jainas do not consider Krishna enlightened because of his actions? Do you know that they do not consider Buddha enlightened because he was not totally naked? Do you know that they do not consider Jesus enlightened because he still drinks alcohol? And you want to decide based on votes? Truth cannot be democratic. Time and time again we have seen the masses make the wrong decisions. They poisoned socrates, the crucified jesus, they murdered mansur-al-hallaj, and you want to let them decide about Osho’s work? Osho’s work has nothing to do with votes and elections, his concern is the evolution of consciousness. His concern is meditation and enlightenment and awareness, not voting about who you “feel” should run Pune. Pune is a buddha field, it is not a political party. And jayesh and amrito, however we may differ on our standpoints, are the managers and I support them even if they do not always do the right thing. I think that they could be a little more attentive, perhaps they could listen more, BUT I would never exchange them for some democratic political process. Democracy cannot decide Truth. Otherwise why should the wrong people be elected into public office? Why should George W. Bush be allowed to interfere in people civil liberties? Democracy and Truth have nothing to do with each other. We saw how socrates was poisoned. He was poisoned by a vote. Do you know that? But no, you do not seem to get it through your thick head that Truth and democracy have nothing in common with one another. Socrates defeated the court as far as intelligence is concerned, but still the idiots decided to hold a vote to decide about Truth. Democracy is the wrong path. Democracy is opposed to the truth. Osho’s work is concerned with Truth, and all that you are concerned about is voting and public opinion. Your foolishness even thinks that it knows what is right and wrong, what is good and bad. You consider yourself eligible to decide about Truth. Just like the judges considered themselves eligible to poison Socrates. Socrates was poisoned through a vote. The citizens of Athens held a vote to decide whether Socrates was right and wrong. And here you are talking about democracy and elections, votes and campaigns. Your interest is in degenerating Osho’s work into a political organization. You are intersted in Destroying Osho’s Truth by bringing in votes, elections and public opinion. A man of Truth has nothing to do with elections and votes. You cannot elect an enlightened person just like you cannot elect the airplane pilot or a nuclear scientist. Democracy means the lowest electing the highest. The unconscious deciding about Truth. The blind passing judgment on light. And you still continue with your talk of elecitons, democracy, voting and politicans. Politicians are elected on the basis of image. Truth cannot be elected on the basis of image. Mansur-al-hallaj was crucified because he did not fit in with the image of an enlightened person. Jesus was crucified because he did not fit in with the image of a prophet. Socrates was poisoned because the people of Athens thought that he was rebellious and that he was corrupting the youth. The most intelligent man in the history of Greece was poisoned, democratically! And this idiot is here talking about a movement for democratic change? Change towards where? Towards unconsciousness and falsehood. This idiot considers himself in a position to decide about Osho’s work. He thinks that he is eligible to decide about towards where Osho’s work should move. The fool is trying to distort Osho’s message by putting his work in the hands of politicians who are interested in power, in votes and numbers. Just like the catholic church is concerned with power, votes and numbers. He is trying to introduce the politics of numbers into Osho’s work. He is trying to degenerate Osho’s movement by making it political. He is trying to degenerate Osho’s buddha field by making it a place where people have campaigns and elections. As if he is fit to talk about truth. As if he is fit to decide about Osho and his truth. He thinks that if he can instroduce democracy, he will be able to come to power and he can enjoy gathering votes. Truth has nothing to do with votes. It has everything to do with meditation and consciousness. This fool is not even enlightened and here he is saying we should hold elections in Osho’s buddha field. We should decide about Truth through democracy and votes. Socrates was poisoned in a democracy and this idiot thinks that democracy is the way to “preserve’ Osho’s work and his words. The coward is not even honest enough to reveal his identity and on his blog he writes as if he is the representative of Osho sannyasins.

    “Yours sincerely,

    All the many Osho disciples.”

    That is what he writes. With what authority do you claim to be a disciple of Osho? Pope Benedict claims that he is the representive of Jesus Christ. Ayatollah Khamenei considers himself the caretaker of Mohammad’s work. And you consider yourself a disciple of Osho? This idiot writes that he is a disciple of Osho, if it was that easy. If becoming Osho’s disciple was just through writing or saying that you are, then I would be enlightened. But I’m not enlightened, and this fool writes “All the many Osho disciples”. He thinks that he is fit to judge and decide about Truth. As if any unconscious person can voice his opinion about Truth. This idiot doesn’t have love for Osho. Even a blind man could see that the same people who poisoned socrates, the same unconscious person, can do the same with Osho. Votes, elections, campaigns have nothing to do with Osho’s vision. Osho’s vision is a conscious vision and if there were enough enlightened people to form a majority, then there would be no need for Osho to talk about meditation and elightenment. The majority are still unconscious and asleep. And this fool wants to allow them to decide about Truth and enlightenment. It doesn’t even go through his thick head either. He has ulterior motives, he wants to degenerate Osho’s buddha field into an election ground and a campaign ground where politicians will compete to win votes and to appease the public opinion. Osho was not concerned with appeasing the masses. Osho was not concered with consoling the masses and politicians are not concerned with Truth, they are concerned with sweet, comforting lies which will allow us to sleep without the disturbance of Truth. And this idiotic, coward is not straightforward and honest. He is not even willing to admit that he is wrong. He is not concerned with doing what is right, he is concerned with doing what he “thinks” to be right. He wants to allow fools to decide about wisdom and enlightenment. The same fools who called Osho a self-appointed bhagwan. The same fools who held a vote and decided to poison Socrates. The same fools who are being deceived every day by politicians in America. He wants to allow these fools to decide about Truth. He wants Osho’s buddha field to become a campaign ground. He wants people to forget the evolution of consciousness, the transformation of consciosness and worry about who they are going to vote for. He want’s to degenerate Osho’s movement and his truth. This fool is trying to justify his unconscious actions by gathering people’s votes. He wants to destroy the truth without any qualms of conscience because “i was only doing what the people wanted me to do” “my destruction of truth is legitimate because I have people’s votes”. He want’s to distort truth. Osho’s work is a mystic school. A mystic school has nothing to do with democracy, elections, votes and politicians. It has everything to do with the evolution of consciousness, it has everything to do with meditation. But nothing to do with voting and elections. The same blind, idiotic, unconscious people who poisoned socrates, who crucifies jesus, who murdered mansur-al-hallaj. Those same fools who called Osho a “self-appointed bhagwan”. Harri Om, wants those same fools to create democratic change in Osho’s buddha field. His Buddha Field! Osho is not a politician, he is a mystic. And this fool wants to “vote”. He wants to voice his “opinion” about Truth. About Truth! Truth has nothing to do the majority. It has everything to do with the individual. This idiot wants to bring a crowd to “decide” and “vote” on Osho’s work. The idiot, the fool does not understand anything and he claims that he does understand! He trys to justify his unconsciousness and hide behind the majority because he knows that if people’s votes are not with him, his blindness, his unconsciousness will be exposed. He is trying to rationalize and justify the destruction of Osho’s buddha field. His Buddha Field! Harri Om, you are a coward, you are a fool, you are an idiot, you are blind, you are unconscious and you are deceived. You are a politician, you are not concerned with Truth. You are concerned with destoying Osho’s buddha field. You are interested in desecrating his buddha field by making it an election ground. You want to destroy his truth so that sleep will be more comfortable and nothing will disturb you any more. Coward. Blind. Unconscious. Fool. Politician. Hypocrite. You do not understand and you claim that you do understand.

  93. Shahriar says:

    “Truth is a majority of one and falsehood is a minortiy of 6 billion”

    I accidentally wrote majority when I should have wrote “minority of 6 billion.”

    “This fool is not even enlightened and here he is saying we should hold elections in Osho’s buddha field. This fool is saying that we should decide about Truth through democracy and votes. ”

    I accidentally wrote “we should decide” when I wanted to write “this fool says that we should decide”

  94. Kranti says:

    Harri Om

    As i have posted repeatedly personally i dont think of democracy highly and all.. And to me it is IRRELEVANT also in the context of Osho.. Here we are talking about awareness NOT equality ,voting kind of stuff.

    But the last point in your post disturbed me .. What is the NEED or RELEVANCY or INTENTION for mentioning something like this…

    ” The notion of secret poisoning reminds me of all the sanyassins and visitors of the Pune resort who have over the years unknowingly consumed contaminated ‘drinking’ water ”

    Pune has very good water purification system and i have always used the water provided at the resort without any problem whatsover…

    Please clarify whether such a statement is just unintentional and meaningless.

  95. Harri Om says:

    Shahriar, I appreciate your interest in the topic of democracy. However the post was not about democracy at all, it was about shedding new light on the poisoning of Osho.

    I am not stupid enough that you need to endlessly repeat the same theme until I get a headache.

    You did not accidentally write anything at all. As you were writing your mind was in a state of chaos and this expressed itself in the post.

    I am also wondering why the term ‘buddha’ field is used. Where is the buddha?

    In your post you have however made a very interesting point and hence I am here responding in kind.

    Because of Osho being the magnetic being that he was, he became the minority of one to the majority of hundreds of thousands. So many people who were indeed in varying states of unconsciousness and blindness could see at least one thing, that this man new the truth. The relationship between Osho and all his followers was not one that came to be by force. The people that accepted him as their Master did so out of choice.

    In the current situation the senior members of the Pune resort and Inner-Circle have an apparently similar relationship with Osho’s followers. However this relationship has over a few short years become problematic to say the least. This relationship is not accepted by so many of Osho’s followers (perhaps even the majority – just ask around) and exists on the basis of enforcement.

    You seem interested in truth and I assume freedom. The truth is Osho’s people have lost their freedom.

  96. Harri Om says:

    In Macau (I seem to recall – perhaps also Hong Kong?) they have a political system that includes posts for experts in particular fields. In Thailand two factions have been literally at war. The rural mass wants to leave the democratic system as is (they have the most votes) – similar to the West. However elite circles in Bangkok know that they do not have the majority to vote in who they want. Hence there is a war. The Bangkok crowd has proposed a system of partially (half I think) elected, and partially selected. In the selected field there would be positions for academics in fields like finance, law, politics etc. In Iran there is also a Counsel of Experts. Osho of course liked the idea of a certain level of expertise qualifying you for voting or being a candidate for a particular specialized post.

    To me it really does not matter what basic system is opted for. What matters is that in all basic categories the entire population has the option of voting. If you want to for example have a post for finance, and only allow appropriate degree qualified candidates, that is fine. However, if you only allow fellow academicians to vote for the post, than the endeavour of financial academic pursuit becomes political. Then people start studying finance so they can become a powerful politician. Of course in the example of finance this probably happens anyway (perhaps not the best example), but it would be to a lesser degree.

    If the ability to select a person for a post in the inner-circle is given to a group of people less then the entire Osho sannyas community, than politics will enter into this faction. Hence you will have people taking Osho sannyas only so that they can vote or run for office.

    Osho appointed an Inner-Circle that followed the idea of specialized posts for specialised capacities. Hence for example he chose someone that had a flair for looking after the sacred to take care of his place of residence. Part of the problem was that there was no system set up to choose the next person to look after a specialized area. The other part of the problem is that some specialized fields have the capacity to control other ones. Hence if you were the inner-circle music maestro, then no matter how good you were at playing music it would be not much use if finance gave no money to your cause, or if management banned all musical instruments.

    In some political systems Osho’s idea of meritocracy is in play anyhow. A minister in a government will likely be chosen based on his or her relevant skills and experience. However in some political systems there is that a bus driver can make the laws of a country, or a hippie can become the president. This may also have considerable merit in creating a diverse society.

    In some political systems considerable emphasis is placed on expert advice, and correspondence between a politician and expert is relatively transparent. Admittedly the United States recently had George W Bush to ride rough shod over expert advice. However on the other hand he did remove perhaps the world’s worst tyrant in the contemporary age – Saddam Hussein.

    As previously mentioned, within the Inner-Circle part of the problem was that some specialities had the inherent capacity to control other specialties; the other problem was that of succession within specialties. What has occurred is people like Jayesh have taken over the responsibility for succession, and dominated in a narrow minded way the specialities. Osho set something up that worked well in the beginning. So much energy was put into creating a beautiful ashram and global community. After a while, with Osho not around, the inherent weaknesses of human corruptibility inevitably came into play. It would have been fine if Osho could have chosen another person to look after his residence, or finance, or whatever, when the time was needed. It would be fine if the current occupant of a post actually new when it was time to let go and go for change. However Osho never put in place formal arrangements to allow this to happen. He again (and again and again) gave his people a chance to grow.

    For me it is not about what structure is in place at all. It is that there is a framework that all agree on that fits with the basic human decencies that we all possess. Osho gave his people a chance to follow their inner truth about how to conduct oneself in the political sphere. My suggestion is simply that people in political posts have a basic guidebook that says when to stop, when to leave, and when to go to jail. There is nothing strange about the proposal. People are openly critical of laws and consider them an infringement of their basic freedom. However laws are in theory (and practice aims towards this) come from the underlying nature from which the ethical and then legal fabric is constructed. It is the same here with the concept that the Inner-Circle have a basic charter of functioning.

  97. Kranti says:

    ” this relationship has over a few short years become problematic to say the least. This relationship is not accepted by so many of Osho’s followers (perhaps even the majority – just ask around) ”

    Harri Om… Now you are talking

    Pune has managed things beautifully albeit in their own way … let us not forget that their way of functioning was by and large accepted by everyone including what you refer to as ‘ other’ groups in your blog until 2000..

    the destruction of Buddha Hall would have started the issues..But do you believe no one was aware of the same until the moment it happened.. Do you belive it could not be prevented by people wo were inside at that time..Was that story that easy to be accepted.. ?People allowed things to happen and now are making so much noise from outside

    If all these sannyasins think that they want to see a balance between Head & Heart .. let them go to Pune and have discussions and effect few changes .Do you think all these sannyasins dont know how to present themselves in a manner which is meditative

    But going beyond this and creating a big negative hype about Pune , talking now about how Osho was poisoned , Water contaminations and painting Pune mgt as criminals and asking for them to be voted out etc etc are taking extereme postions..

    Similarly lot of noise about trademark / copyright is deliberate and made with disgusting personal interests..Very ugly intention to make money out of Osho ( Except for few genuine people who lived close to Osho and who need more space to operate )

    All these negative media publicity that is being created about Pune is highly unconcious behaviour and not in the interest Osho vision.. Let us not quote Osho saying He talked openly against everthing and thats why we talk.. Osho is Osho.. We are just sannyaisns..We should be aware of our unconciousness hurting life.. The methods adopted by all the sannyasins who are up with arms / legal solutions are NOT right choices…

    Instead of talking about demoracy if you are really interested prepare a list of changes / balance all the sannyasins want to see with their signatures and go and sit / fast infront of Pune resort … That will be human approach..

  98. Kranti says:

    Another angle about Inner Circle.. Just Tell me why things should not be looked from that angle?

    ( this is jsut an effort to be fair not that i know for sure )

    All the people who were part of the Inner Circle left because they want to have their Individuality / Fulfillment in life.. those people were never made for being part of something called Inner Circle.. It never would have given them fulfillmenet..They would have wanted to do things in their own way.. There is nothing wrong.. But with a Inner Circle reduced to 5 from 21 things will look authritarian only .. The only people who are left to decide are jayesh and amrito and they do decide something on day to day administration ( they can not sit there doing nothing because others left ) then how can we blame them for taking decisons unilaterally etc etc..

    So it just LOOKS like they are taking unilateral decisons because no one else is there to participate..

    If you want to blame.. dont blame Jayesh and Amrito alone .. Blame equally all the people who left also.. The let down Osho ..Then it gives a good starting point on what next should be done..

  99. Kranti says:

    ” go and sit / fast infront of Pune resort ”

    I am aware fasting is ugly and it is not human.. what i meant is discussions is the right choice not legal battles..

  100. shantam prem says:

    Let us say many here are more evolved, more on a higher pedestal than Harri Om( who so ever he may be), still he seems to have more first hand experience about the roads, Vallie’s and mountains and people living around Osho than many.
    So for a while put aside the bookish experience and the anecdotes about Jesus, Socrates and others aside.
    I think the time to bring these thousands years old creatures is OUT.
    People know more about Socrates death, people know more how Sita was put on exile by Rama thousands years before than for example, what was the problem with Osho’s closest companion, who has to die an untimely death, not even 20 years before.
    I think scientific discoveries has gained momentum because people know how to solve the problems on the way, while on the spiritual world, the emphasis is always to cover the dirt with the silk carpets.
    In this way one can see a kind of imposed beauty, an artificial serenity in all the organisations, people who started the shop as a service to the discovery of truth ends up again as opium shop for the masses, what does it matter instead of prayer one says it is meditation.
    There is no need to go and dig the history. Just one need to look at the spiritual names of the last 75 years. who were boasting about mass following and relevance of their teachings; once the founder was up in the sky, great satellite organisations are lying flat like leaked gas balloons.

  101. Kranti says:

    May be Shantam this is what exietence wants interms if diversity.. A Neelam creating Beautiful Nisarga in Himalayas as per what Osho dreamed , A Keerthi creating a Oshoworld at the heart of India’s capital ..

    May be Osho didnt leave one dream ..He left as many dreams as there are sannyasins…May be we were wrong in assuming tha there is only one dream and thats is secretly given to few people…The disolution of original Inner Circle may be the best thing that has happned to Osho..possible..

    Once that is accepted then we also have to accept that every center has its uniquness / approach..Pune inspite of what we call Osho’s place / Buddhafiled etc will be another center with its unique approach in running the place …

    I dont meant to hurt you.. I also love Pune to the core and at this moment cant even think of any other center equally because i see Osho in every tree leave there in Pune…

    But i honestly don know what is required .. I am uncertain.. and there seems to be a beauty in this ..

    May be we should just ask for one common identity card for all these centers..( i am non-serious ) so that we can keep tasting various appraoches and in that process enrich our Inner journey.. What do you think?

  102. Kranti says:

    ” more on a higher pedestal than Harri Om( who so ever he may be), still he seems to have more first hand experience about the roads ”

    Possible.. But still we dont know who this Harri Om is..What is the need for posting in the name of Osho

  103. shantam prem says:

    May be we should just ask for one common identity card for all these centers..( i am non-serious ) so that we can keep tasting various appraoches and in that process enrich our Inner journey.. What do you think?

    “If this happens, it will be already a big success in the evolutionary journey.”

    It is not just the religions hate each other. The sects, the branches also cannot tolerate each other.
    and they preach love, but practise…yes..only when the greed and lust is fullfilled.

  104. shantam prem says:

    In Sri Lanka, there was civil war for years. If hundred thousands got killed, another hundred thousand tamils got the new life in few of the best countries of the world.
    Same is about Afganis, Kurdish, Iranians etc. life moves on, searches new avenues.
    So one can say in the end it is all good for something. Same is the story of Fragmantaion of Osho’s work.
    In that sense, every solution is useless. Let people die when they are sick, sure they are going to get new life again, if you beleive in reincarnation other wise they will merge with the beloved God.

  105. Kranti says:

    ‘ In that sense, every solution is useless ‘

    Sometimes i feel trying hard to find solutions itself looks absurd and immature.I am not aying we should live with all the bullshit.. But in a different dimension..Life moves on..Life always has the last laugh whether you are Sivananda follower or a Osho sannyasin..

  106. Prem Abhay says:

    To Harri and Shantam and Dilruba and Kranti and Others

    Re: Contamination of Drinking Water at OIMR Pune.

    I have been following the recent posts with interest (and concern). For my efforts to have the resort laboratory proven ‘drinking’ water contamination problem resolved I was firstly removed from a Residential Program. However I was also not allowed to work at all, hence I had to pay (what I could not afford) to go to the resort. So I quickly ran out of money and left.

    I know that in Pune 1 there were difficult circumstances and there is a sense that people tried their best on the hygiene front. I am also not talking about Pune 2 the ‘Ashram’, where to my knowledge the water treatment system was probably leading the standard for India. I am here talking about the new ‘Resort’. The water infrastructure for Pune 2 ‘Ashram’ had been left to slowly decay, and the additional water infrastructure that came with the ‘Resort’ did not work properly – and no-one fixed it!!!

    I found the fact that people could simply go on drinking contaminated water year after year utterly unacceptable. I also found out about a lot of other serious problems at the resort: serious risks and negligence relating to food, trees, buildings, lighting etc.

    When I came back to Pune nearly 2 years ago I stood near the front entrance of the resort and handed out a Water Contamination Report. The following is what happened in the days and weeks afterwards. (Prior to arriving in Pune I received a threatening email warning me not to come to Pune).

    In Pune I have been verbally threatened with being beaten; I have been pushed and punched; I have been threatened with a broom stick, sticks, metal rods, and threatened with a knife in Osho park; I have been warned to leave Pune, and have been on the receiving end of a number of potentially dangerous incidents whilst walking around Koregaon Park.

    From talking to people I have a sense of the terrible things I have supposed to have done: from being uncaring and reckless, violent and dangerous, a terrorist, a racist, and a hypnotist. Like many people that come in search of a Master, I have certainly gone through a difficult inner journey during my time at the Osho ashram/resort. Thankfully Osho’s message of cathartic therapies and active meditation saved me from the torment of strict Buddhist (and yoga) practice – I am forever thankful to him for this. However whatever drama I have been involved in at the resort has been from my side innocent in nature, and I have heard how these situations have been transformed to make me the culprit. Their lies start with an element of truth. Then they twist this into an utter fabrication.

    You have not heard of the drinking water contamination problem because the person that has tried to tell you has been slandered and violently removed from the scene.

    This Harri Om person is no doubt well versed in the long tale of Osho’s movement. He (oops…or She) has most likely read my stuff, or at least read the posters/reports that were once splashed all over Koregaon Park.

    However the people who write here have not, or perhaps they may even know me as that crazy terrorist guy who had a fight with Dhyanesh at the front gate last year. Either way, you do not have a clue what is really going on there.

    I have a blog:

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

    It used to be called nomindspiration.com

    On the right side of the blog is a tag Osho Resort. If you click on it you will find the whole disgusting journey. Towards the end (scroll a long way down) is the nuts and bolts of what is trying to be covered up: “Water Contamination Report” and “Sheela and Who?: Further Reading”.

    It is with some very real concern for my well-being that I write this. I do take some comfort knowing that there are many other Osho sannyasins that have had the courage to speak out. However, what has happened to me is testimony to the extent that people will go to stop our voices being heard.

    People regularly comment in these pages (and elsewhere) on the oasis like buddha field in Pune.

    The Pune resort is run like a violent tyrannical dictatorship, ruled by fear and an iron fist; you call that a buddha field???

    Team management India and the current Inner-Circle are guilty of criminality and criminal negligence.

    I somehow don’t get Harri Om’s murder conspiracy theory, but the thing that gets me is that I know that a lot of other things he/she is saying are true.

    Good luck cause you might need it!

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  107. shantam prem says:

    Many times it happens, people invest their small savings not in the traditional banks but with some get rich scheme.
    Few get involved because of friends and relatives, few because of glossy catalogues.
    Strength of the company grows from few hundred to few thousands, initial customers are satisfied, they are getting good return, they can dream to have their own house and than one day it is a news, company has gone burst, promoters are on the run.
    Hundred thousand people sink in gloom, anger, betrayal..life goes on. Lessons and lessons.
    than we here again, someone has opened again the same business in different city.

    Is it not true about all these new age movements, wanted to create grave for the traditional “banking systems”.
    Without doubt, Osho came very close for creating a break through in the development of the new model for contemporary man. His teachings and techniques are just amazing.

    And than….

    Father dies and prodigal sons take over the business.
    father created te empire from street selling to the high streets, from a village to an international brand…and children simply turn the business into a clandestine affair.
    We all are more than average intelligent, we have done more meditations on hourly basis, we have read and listened the best talks, we criticise day in day out, all the politicians, religious leaders, family values, education system and so on..
    Where we stand as an organisation..
    Oh No…we are not organisation we are an organism…. there is a limit of self deceiving…at least in this branch of action, we are the trend setters.

  108. Dilruba says:

    Harri Om … lam sure this is out of your pain ..that you come up with such suggestions … l totally respect this … but Dear why should one want to put fellow travellers in any situation where one himself doesnot have the guts to even reveal ones own identity … !

    Kranti … we have enough cards / pass the government has made compulsory

    ” In that sense, every solution is useless” ..Yes Shantam … this is beautiful .. when l / we live our life in totality … that is the true break through … and still life goes on … living each moment ..

  109. shantam prem says:

    Just heard, few Osho sannyasins are telling that they have heard from Neelam, that once Osho told her during the stay in Kulu Manali something like, “Earth cannot bear the human shit any more. It wil die in 2010.”
    My suggestion to these people, ” Earth may die or may not die. but if you trust your master said so, atleast make his prophecy true in your own life.”

  110. shantam prem says:

    Harri Om,
    It is not a push, but please write a post about your hesitation not to reveal your identity.
    It can make many psyhcological blocks clear for other people too.
    Off the record, most of the sannyasins on daliy basis speak with their fellow friends about the issues we are doing here in writing.

  111. Shahriar says:

    Harri Om,

    I insulted you in my post and I wanted to apologize. I was mean and hurtful to you, my words were very inconsiderate. I apologize.

    ” Harri Om, you are a coward, you are a fool, you are an idiot, you are blind, you are unconscious and you are deceived. You are a politician, you are not concerned with Truth. You are concerned with destoying Osho’s buddha field. You are interested in desecrating his buddha field by making it an election ground. You want to destroy his truth so that sleep will be more comfortable and nothing will disturb you any more. Coward. Blind. Unconscious. Fool. Politician. Hypocrite. You do not understand and you claim that you do understand.”

    It is uncertain whether you are a coward or not, because you do not reveal your identity. So I dislike calling you that, because it was an insult. Your foolishness is unknown. I understand that Jayesh and Amrito have turned pune into a resort, but I dislike both political approaches. I think that they should be caretakers of Pune and they should assist in helping meditators and seekers who are interested in Osho to get a taste of him. Your being an idiot is also unknown and uncertain. You might be unconscious and deceived but I cannot assert with absolute certainty. As I understand from your words, you seem to be concerned more with democracy and political systems than with Truth. I still stand behind my words, even though I do not stand behind my insults. I feel that I was wrong to insult you.

    I take back these insults “Coward. Blind. Unconscious. Fool. Politician. Hypocrite” Unless they are true, in which case they still stand. But perhaps they are false. Nevertheless my words are still standing.

    Now if you could please reply to the accusations of cowardice, I would appreciate it. I cannot say whether you are a hyprocrite or not. Still you have not considered whether democracy might be harmful to Osho’s work, since there is no way to claim that “I” or “you” “know” what Osho wanted. My words, apart from the insults, still stand. The insults are uncertain. So perhaps you are, or not.

    With love.

  112. Shahriar says:

    With love? That is up to whoever is reading to decide whether it is with love or not.

  113. swami says:

    vomit vomit vomit

  114. shantam prem says:

    Swami,
    your itching brain always come, in the most absurd way.
    Can you also give the face to Swami?

    For weeks we read you, naturally people will be happy to see THIS Swami too, on the face book.

  115. shantam prem says:

    Shahriyar,
    If we all look at our behaviour and words in retrospective and feel sorry when we went too far, world will be a nice place to live.
    Even to kill someone is not that bad if the kiss follow.
    For example, people who run the ashram know quite well that they have molested the feelings of many, if they give the reasons behind their actions, we can have the atmosphare of reconcilation and forward looking. it is like Karmas of the past, will go on haunting us, till they have not seen the day light.

  116. Kranti says:

    Lindorfo Amado

    Good to see you on this forum.. If it is alright with you Please do share your trip with drugs and how meditation replaced it.. trust that is the case even though you saw similarities in the exeperiences given by both..

  117. Kranti says:

    Thank you Prem Abhay .. I admit which i have always done that i lack first hand info like few others who post here.. My reaction to Harri Om was on the aspects of democracy / Criminalization of few people.. But i see you had gone thru terrible expereinces in what is suppoed to be a Buddhafield or meditation center..I honestly dont know what is happening over there in Pune.. Seems people whp just go , meditate and come back have very different experiences against people who tried to be bold and point out what is going wrong..

  118. Kranti says:

    ” I have been pushed and punched; I have been threatened with a broom stick, sticks, metal rods, and threatened with a knife in Osho park ”

    My heart sinks.. I am in tears of sadness.. first time on hearing someone’s experiences in Pune..I was always looking at the beautiful side of things and now this hard for me.. I want to be honest about my feelings.

    Wish Anthony can share his thoughts / knowledge on this type of things..

  119. Shahriar says:

    “Shahriyar,
    If we all look at our behaviour and words in retrospective and feel sorry when we went too far, world will be a nice place to live.
    Even to kill someone is not that bad if the kiss follow.
    For example, people who run the ashram know quite well that they have molested the feelings of many, if they give the reasons behind their actions, we can have the atmosphare of reconcilation and forward looking. it is like Karmas of the past, will go on haunting us, till they have not seen the day light.”

    Agreed. It helps to get the load off your back. I can’t say that about killing someone, because it would be a little foolish, but the world will certainly be a better place. Although it would be nice not to kill someone in the first place.

    With love,

    Shahriar

    P.S. I am currently at the university and I observe how the vibrations of different places vary. Like a temple, a school, a home etc. etc.

  120. shantam prem says:

    Kranti after reading your comment i came to see the comment of Prem Abhay.
    I really don’t know how much is the truth and how much is the exaggeration, for ex. beating part with sticks etc. never heard before.
    For sure, Resort has a team of private security personals, who carry sticks etc. to restore law and order, Police is also on the call 24X7, but this far someone will go is never heard of.
    So one has to take this with a bit of caution.
    But as far as the quality of each and everything is concerned, there is lack of positive and motivating energy.
    People who treat it as Ashram don’t come any more and people who want to go to the Spas and resorts etc., go to the professionally managed premises, which are free from any kind of Guru stink.
    Somehow Gurus are very personal experiences, it is disgusting to see some one’s used condoms same way people react repulsively if they don’t have love affair with the guru.
    Without doubt the people who are running the show have got the hard skin, sensitivity is being lost somewhere on the way.
    Complete control of one unenlightened person creates,
    Fedral Castro’s Cuba kind of atmosphere. Beautiful nature but empty shops and people restore to all kind of tact’s and tricks for their survival.

  121. shantam prem says:

    Shahriar,
    Even to kill someone is not that bad if the kiss follow, This expression was used simply to stress the point to its last extreme.
    As a disciple of Osho i feel the futility of physical and emotional violence. These are the tools of cripling beings.
    Integrity of the soul creates a power of its own. One can make the points clear with more refined ways, when the grip of fear and greed becomes loose.

    Ref. Osho’s wonderful discourses in “The Rebel”.

  122. Dilruba says:

    Abhay … lam totally speechless about what happened to you .. anyway now l feel you have expressed it .. all l can say is some have to pay probably a little more on this journey of truth .. and lam sure the Master / Existance / otherwise .. strangely takes one towards the truth in more than one way .. so wish you good luck if you need it .. and gratitude for your wishes

  123. shantam prem says:

    Prem Abhay,
    i have gone through your blog posts.
    I am sure you would have been Banned during Osho’s life time too. Were you at Pune during that time?
    I am sure, NOT.

    There are people who look only at the flowers, few look only at the thrones and few look at the complete nature.
    Somehow, you seem to be hell bent to find the few pornographic words in the complete dictionary.

    No organsiation, no country can get 10 out of 10 in the report of transprancy international. Few stumbling blocks always remain.

    For example, so much fuss about the water contamination without bothering that overall Water quality of the ashram till today is the BEST in whole of Pune.

    The organisation needs a change. More passion, more love, more original soup of the soul cooked by Osho. But who knows you will still find some bones in Tomato soup.

    That is why i am so sure, you were not in Pune during Osho’s life time. Water situation was a bit more primitive 20 years before, still the best as per the times in Pune.

    Ps-random songs list playing, “ABBA-i have a dream” while writing this.

  124. Prem Abhay says:

    Shantam, I am sure that I would have been banned in Osho’s life time too, but not by Osho. Since you are interested in backward looking, the same situation occurred with Swami Rajneesh. He was also banned and assaulted, however Osho told management to let him in and leave him alone, and for the guards not to attack him.

    You say you have read my blog. So obviously you are aware that the filters had been removed from the wells and not replaced; that the filters at the taps were years old and finance refused to give the engineers new ones; that there is a serious design flaw in the old water treatment system; and that the central filtration system underneath the new resort complex has never ever been turned on because it does not work.

    So a lot of the water that is from the wells has no initial or central filtration system. You say this is the best in Pune. However I am absolutely sure that the PMC has a filtration system that is not only installed, but actually turned on.

    The entire water treatment system is in a deplorable state. However, even so, if it is on par or even better than the whole of Pune, is that any great achievement? If I am sitting at an internet cafe somewhere on this planet looking for a nice place to go for a holiday, and I see osho.com, do you think I might think much of the fact that there is actually not much difference between drinking the water at the resort and going down the road to the nearest slum and drinking that water?

    Not far from the resort, in a slum area near the railway, there have been reports of cholera in recent years. The so called pristine stream in Osho Park is actually the sewer being fed from these upstream areas. Hence it is for example entirely possible that cholera, let alone all the other typical viruses and bacteria found in India’s water, can make its way into the resort’s wells. Hence, with a water treatment system in a state of either decay or not working at all, it is quite possibly that people at the resort will drink cholera and other potential deadly micro-organisms.

    To be quite frank I don’t mind a few bones in my tomato soup, but if I go to the resort, am encouraged to drink the signed drinking water, and it may contain typhoid, e-coli, cholera etc, than actually I do mind quite a bit. If also this has been going on for lets say 7 years or so, and this includes hundreds of thousands of people, I would consider it more than a frivolity.

    Of course feel free to go to Pune and drink the drinking water (especially when it rains) because I don’t know what I am talking about, and even if I did, it is just a little fuss.

  125. Harri Om says:

    Shahriar, in your interesting rant you seemed to indicate that wise sannyassins are those who have worn out many robes. On and on you go about who am I ‘the fool’, and of course you are not. So how is it then that you are so wise? It seemed to me that you were linking yourself with these wise old robed Oshoites, and of course linking me with what I do not know, but certainly not with Osho apparel. Now I have worn all the colors of the rainbow for Osho, yet you have not by your own admission even stepped outside of your mothers nurture. It seems a little strange. It is of course nice to here that you are having a good time at uni.

    You enjoy playing a little logical game: you admit that you cannot assert certain negative qualities to me for sure, however if I did have such qualities, then it would be true that I did, and you would of course then be right. That is very nice. However, while some people may read your apology to me and feel a touch of sweetness in the air, I do not. I saw no problem with your personal attack on me; it was spirited and sincere. I only wished that it was a little more concise and less repetitive. So hence I am also wondering who it is you feel sorry for? Is it true that you are sorry? Is their any truth in your sorrow?

    I also acknowledge that there is a winding thread of deep understanding and brilliance in your writing.

    As a general comment – for the record I have said that I have not revealed my identify for fear of being banned. I sense that some people considered that an absurdity: as if they would ban someone for just writing their authentic thoughts. Also, it was clear that people initially assumed that I was stupid, hence the stupid replies to my posts. Wearily I replied and the dialogue improved somewhat. I suppose we are getting somewhere? As I continued explaining my point of view others may have wondered if perhaps I was right to fear being banned. It was even acknowledged that I may have more than being banned to worry about. Just to set the record straight I did not need Prem Abhay to tell me that being banned is the least of my worries.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  126. shantam prem says:

    “I have said that I have not revealed my identify for fear of being banned.”

    i know this fear quite well other than hundred other kind of fears which can be assembled by certain events of life.

    Can you please elobrate what you will loose if you are banned from the place. What are the attractions still left as a binding force.

    Also inspite of many of the unneccasry changes imposed, there must be still some hidden treasures, which you will miss if you are banned. Can you tell the seekers on the path about them.

  127. Kranti says:

    May be he is worried that he may not be able to effectively achieve what he wants to if his identity is known…

  128. shantam prem says:

    Without sarcism, it is my sincere enquiry.
    Fear of getting banned from Ashram, how many hundred thousands must be having this fear, and therefore keeping silent.

    Fear must be producing guilt and sense of worthlessness too. Can we cover this low self esteem with the mantra, ” In existance we trust.”

    Let us discuss the psychology and esoterica of this kind of fear.

  129. Shahriar says:

    “Shahriar, in your interesting rant you seemed to indicate that wise sannyassins are those who have worn out many robes. On and on you go about who am I ‘the fool’, and of course you are not. So how is it then that you are so wise? It seemed to me that you were linking yourself with these wise old robed Oshoites, and of course linking me with what I do not know, but certainly not with Osho apparel. Now I have worn all the colors of the rainbow for Osho, yet you have not by your own admission even stepped outside of your mothers nurture. It seems a little strange. It is of course nice to here that you are having a good time at uni.”

    I said that a person does not become a sannyasin by wearing a maroon robe. Just like someone does not become a christian by going to church on sunday. Otherwise the whole world would be religious. I have not stepped out of my mothers nurture, nevertheless, one does not become a sannyasin by wearing a robe, and doing other outward actions. Any idiot can voice his opinion but this does not mean that it is right. You do not seem to consider whether your actions could potentially harm Osho’s work which they could. Since Pune is not a “resort” in the sense that any hotel can become a resort, but Pune is not “just a hotel”. It is more than that, and I disagree with both Jayesh, Amrito and you. The management in pune is there to fulfill some function. Their value is only in how useful they are in fulfilling those functions. So banning is too much, because that is leaning towards dictatorship. And on the other hand, democracy will turn pune into a campaign ground, an election ground. Pune is not concerned with politics, Pune is concerned with meditation. And the managers in pune are there to provide people with what they need, not to do what they think is “right”. Jayesh and Amrito are just like dishwashers, their value is in how well they do their job. Now Pune belongs to meditators but there is no way to decide who is a meditator based on outward signs so you cannot have democracy. Democracy assumes that people are wise, and that they will make the right decisions. There is nothing saying that people are wise, or that they make the right decisions. Wrong ones have been made also, fools have cast a ballot also. Another thing is that democracy and politics will bring ambition, which is a irreligious quality. People will forget meditation, enlightenment and they will be worried about who to elect and who not to elect. On the other hand, dictatorship is also wrong, because there might be people whose way is different from theirs, and they would be forced to change themselves or hide themselves or leave, but would not be allowed their freedom and self-expression.

    “You enjoy playing a little logical game: you admit that you cannot assert certain negative qualities to me for sure, however if I did have such qualities, then it would be true that I did, and you would of course then be right. That is very nice. However, while some people may read your apology to me and feel a touch of sweetness in the air, I do not. I saw no problem with your personal attack on me; it was spirited and sincere. I only wished that it was a little more concise and less repetitive. So hence I am also wondering who it is you feel sorry for? Is it true that you are sorry? Is their any truth in your sorrow?”

    I repeated myself so that I could emphasize the point. Otherwise, people would read it like any other post. I wrote the post, and then when I was rereading it, the name calling seemed too much, it destroyed the purity of the attack and made it seem personal. Perhaps if I had used the name calling sparingly, then I would not have felt sorry, although I did think that you seemed sincere, although this doesn’t mean that you were right. I also thought that the name calling at the end was too much, extra and unnecessary.

    “I also acknowledge that there is a winding thread of deep understanding and brilliance in your writing.”

    Thanks

    “As a general comment – for the record I have said that I have not revealed my identify for fear of being banned. I sense that some people considered that an absurdity: as if they would ban someone for just writing their authentic thoughts. Also, it was clear that people initially assumed that I was stupid, hence the stupid replies to my posts. Wearily I replied and the dialogue improved somewhat. I suppose we are getting somewhere? As I continued explaining my point of view others may have wondered if perhaps I was right to fear being banned. It was even acknowledged that I may have more than being banned to worry about. Just to set the record straight I did not need Prem Abhay to tell me that being banned is the least of my worries.”

    Ok.

    Love

  130. Shahriar says:

    “Any idiot can voice his opinion but this does not mean that it is right.”

    If this is my opinion and it is right, that means that I am not an idiot, but if I am an idiot then this statement would be wrong, in which case idiots could voice their opinion and it could be right. LOL.

  131. Shahriar says:

    And this is not directed at you Harri om.

  132. Dilruba says:

    Harri om .. jus to share with you / all l donot vote in the local / any country election .. because l feel l donot want to be part of anything / body who comes / goes in this game .. and l / we have freedom to decide to vote / not to vote .. but here in your poll l did share my vote for a NO .. as l feel this is part of the truth lam involved in

    it is your freedom to reveal your identity … when somebody is not willing to do that .. but dear l / we are not in this game for banning
    .. it is simple you have an agenda .. you are free to go on n on n on .. jus like me / all

    Just a suggestion .. why dont you write in all Osho related magazines for a better response rather than from this forum .. you can keep this going too … this is meant to be Offenssive .. even if l say sorry dont pay heed … hahahaha

  133. Kranti says:

    ” jus to share with you / all l donot vote in the local / any country election ”

    Me too

  134. shantam prem says:

    Mr. harri om,

    I am sure you have read my post. Your statement about the fear to be banned still the desire to dethrone the present management, it has become an arche type mind pattern of Sannyas community.

    So much clarity on theoretical level, so much reference from the world history, so much desire for change and yet; as it is said in Hindi,” Elephant has crossed the river, only the tail has gone stuck somewhere.”

    So i am waiting for your honest assessment about this fear ; may be many others too.

    Still you are free not to share your inner mechanism, the inner lion and the goat, but than i have a request, don’t share the bloody democratic thoughts too, that will be dishonest, like stabbing from the behind.

  135. shantam prem says:

    Osho’s No thought of the day for today at osho.com-

    Whatever you do, remember one thing:
    out of fear you are not going to grow; you will only shrink and die.
    Fear is in the service of death.
    Mahavira is right. He makes fearlessness the fundamental of a religious person,
    and I can understand what he means by fearlessness – that means dropping all armor.
    A fearless person has everything that life wants to give to you as a gift.
    Now there is no barrier: you will be showered with gifts, and whatever you will be doing you will have a strength, a power, a certainty,
    a tremendous feeling of authority.

  136. Dilruba says:

    Yes Shantam … so truthfully put ! when there is truth .. then nothing else is needed .. this is the Qualityless Quality of truth !

  137. Kranti says:

    ” So much clarity on theoretical level, so much reference from the world history, so much desire for change and yet ………. ”

    Very true Shantam….

  138. shantam prem says:

    ” So much clarity on theoretical level, so much reference from the world history, so much desire for change and yet ………. ”

    So many discourses from Him. He was not with us just for three years, 35 years of continuity not just theoratical Satsang like pornos for the soul,
    real real work all recorded in audios and videos and photographed…..

    and Now….?

  139. Chinmaya says:

    Nearer the Church (Osho), farther from God (Osho). Those who were living like shadow with Osho, has changed the originality of the set up and much more. It pinches. May God (Osho) bless them too. Ameen.

  140. shantam prem says:

    A Sufi Story of our time

    Once there was a king. Like all the kings he had many sons, He loved all of them equally, but two were His favorites. Most of the children had a good education but these two became successful in their rights too. Like all the kings, this king was also a good warrior and these two children fought many battles in His name.
    As it happens, king or beggars, mystics and drunkards, all die one day. The king was so much proud on His children that instead of choosing a successor and leaving clear instructions behind, because he was so sure that the children will continue his policies of governance.

    Two elder children took control of the kingdom. They built new roads and improved the infra structure, but still people were not happy. General population was leaving the country.
    Why?
    Everybody knew the answer but nobody was telling, not even His advisers.

    Don’t ask where is the story?

    This is the story and for sure it will also have its happy end…right now story is in the development stage.

  141. Kranti says:

    Heard there is a new system in cinema theaters to choose the kind of climax majority of the peopel who are watching want by pressing few buttons in the seat.. Accordingly happy or tragic ending will be chosen.. That is needed Shantam .. But Osho sannyasins are far sharper and they always choose happy / celebrative ending ..Trust existence ..

  142. Harri Om says:

    This is a story about a great Master, his people, and the crowd.

    On planet Earth there once lived a Master called Great Ocean. He was called Great Ocean because of the long flowing waves of his beard, and for other reasons. After attaining the ultimate through a search not helped by another, the Master pondered in silence why he should help others know the truth. He knew that everyone wakes up from the dream in their own time; why throw cold water upon their smiling faces he thought. While he was pondering this he travelled all over the vast countryside. He wasn’t really interested in attracting followers, or even waking people up. He was just curious about the way the world and its inhabitants pursued their ways. However the Master’s magnetism grew many from near and far, and before long he had gathered many sincere seekers around him, and the crowd. The Master knew these people needed a home to collect their silence and cleanse their souls, so he stopped travelling and settled down.

    In a way the Master did not settle to preach to the masses, but rather to explore another stage in the mysterious journey of this life. However the masses did so come with many needs and desires. The Master in his wisdom gave great discourses that were perfectly in tune with every gathering. However to the Master’s dismay, after every discourse his inspired followers, rather than letting the words and wisdom settle into their being, trod all over his words and ignored their true meaning. Of course meanwhile many sincere seekers were making their way along the pathless path that only a Master has travelled.

    Unfortunately the crowd thought that they had grown wise and started taking over the Master’s home, and kicked out all the sincere seekers. The Master tried at every turn, but the crowd could not here and would not listen. There was only one option left…to leave. One morning the Master left for a foreign land in hope of losing the crowd. Of course the crowd new better and followed him. This new land brought promise and hope, yet in just few short years the Master was again in the same dilemma. This time the Master was getting old and weary and hence decided not to run, but rather withdraw into silence. Of course the crowd destroyed the oasis, and the Master was also kicked out and left listless and homeless.

    In a strange twist of fate, the Great Ocean flowed back down the one river and ended up in his land of birth, and in his old abode. Would things be different this time, the Master wondered. With all the dramas, the trouble was that by now the Master looked bad not just to the world, but also to many of his closest disciples. Though they had followed him back home, they had secretly lost trust in his ways. They had also thought that they themselves had grown old and wise, and knew better the Master’s message than himself. Hence out of great compassion for the world they decided to do away with the Master, and just keep his message. They were the new vehicles and after all it is the message that is important, not the messenger – so they thought.

    All seemed to work well for a time, and then strangely enough the new master plan seemed to hit a few speed bumps. Though the crowd came they also left not to return. Many of the old Master’s sincere seekers, not before troubling for the worldly games, decided to again engage with the world. This created even more trouble with the New Team. Perhaps, they thought, we are having troubles like Great Ocean had. These worldly dreamers know not the truth nor the way, and hence try and fight us. Of course there was no use in contemplation or meditation to solve this one, for the New Team had already attained all on that front – or so they thought. With their inward tools seemingly lacking, the New Team decided to fight the foolish world with freshly crafted outward weapons.

    At first their conduct was subtle and cunning, yet in time the intractable sleeping world required a gentle touch of physical violence. After all, the physical threats and violence was just a new age Zen stick. This approach was very successful because the crowd became very silent. The New Team thought that now the crowd had finally started to learn a little about meditation. However the fearful crowd was more a dam readying to burst than a silent stream. Of course the fearless ones that stood pillars against the violent aggression were also unmoved. In fact they had grown more resolutely in the power of here and now. To be continued.

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  143. Kranti says:

    Harri Om.. You have a career option in writing scripts for movies..if you have not made use of it so far..

    But i thouroughly enjoyed your last post for the creativity and presentaion.. Thanks..

  144. shantam prem says:

    “At first their conduct was subtle and cunning, yet in time the intractable sleeping world required a gentle touch of physical violence. After all, the physical threats and violence was just a new age Zen stick. This approach was very successful because the crowd became very silent. The New Team thought that now the crowd had finally started to learn a little about meditation. However the fearful crowd was more a dam readying to burst than a silent stream. Of course the fearless ones that stood pillars against the violent aggression were also unmoved. In fact they had grown more resolutely in the power of here and now. To be continued.”

    And specially the end-

    Of course the fearless ones that stood pillars against the violent aggression were also unmoved. In fact they had grown more resolutely in the power of here and now.

    SO BELOVED WRITER: SHOW YOUR METAL. JUST TELL WHO YOU ARE?

    World has seen enough paper tigers, to move people with words, just with words is pornographic, whether spirutal words or words full with social motivation…

    My God…you have no sense of shame, that just not to get banned from the resort, you are hiding yor identity.
    Are you 60+ youngman, who can get the young woman only and only in the resort because there it is easy to give reference of your golden days with Osho and win the trust of a delicate heart in a sensuous body.

  145. shantam prem says:

    PS_ But as far as your observation of the Osho movement is concerned and your expressions in the story format, it is beautiful.
    At least, most of us have leanrnt the art of being words smith by being with Osho.
    And also “the trust in existance” though deep down we also know, our existance is another name for their God or ALLAH or PARMATMA.
    If these names are dead, existance is also in the grave, so use the convininet word, Trust but protect oneself in the Darwinin jungle or the Bee’s nest, where the fitest one, rules the game.

  146. shantam prem says:

    After some gap, I have read again the expressions of Harri OM. Somehow he has crafted a very true picture of the present scenario.
    This is one of the question for my lifetime, why we have reached to this point. It is not just a academic curiosity but like many others i have tried my best to pour each cell of my being into the experiment.
    In an existential chain of events, no effort is lost, the being gets the wings to fly without any fear or support. The soul gets the power to conquer the peaks or to die an unknown death into the trenches of life.
    It is like you are carrying an inner Jack Wolfskin. Winds of fame or humiliation, pain or pleasure, just touch you but don’t hurt the very core yet you feel every small change of rhythm.

    But the question still remains, the painting we are seeing right now is not the Original. It is not even the copy, someone has given his own hands to the master’s work.
    Why it happened and how long people will be served soup of the soup of the soup.
    Naturally what Osho used to say something like, My people are the elites of the elites, the cream of the cream, the salt of the earth……
    May be we need one more round of the washing machine with higher temperature to get into that stage, He was feeling about us.
    Osho as a human being was part of an immigration fraud in one of the most developed country of our time, He was bound to pay the legal price for that, and He paid it, willingly or reluctantly….But What His people did to His legacy..turning a classic into a cheap parody,, I don’t think He deserves this, and neither seekers on the path crafted by Him.

    shantam prem
    http://www.facebook.com/astro.shantam

  147. Aman says:

    Mediation and Drug

    I simply wanted to share my experience,
    I am absolutely agree with article Meditation stronger than LSD
    by Lakshen Sucameli
    “Once you have closed your eyes for an hour and followed the stages of Dynamic, Kundalini, Mandala or Nataraj … something is bound to happen. No matter if you are a spiritual seeker, or a fervent atheist.”
    I remember when I first read Osho. The very first book created an urge to experiment his meditation techniques. From very first day, was very clear to me that Meditation was the only solution.
    I had confidence and trust in meditation, while I was for 7 years in the commune of Osho and 7 years in Europe.
    I knew from my friend who just returned from Costa Rica had accidentally participated in a Shamanic ritual with ayahuasca, he was so exited to share his experience. Except vision and all stuff, what impressed me is that he said:
    “The experience was so beautiful that even one do whole life meditation and don’t reach to present moment, while with this ritual one reach so easily at present and total”
    So I became interested, after a year, Shaman was in Europe, so I attended, there was three sessions at night, the first night I felt bad because of the fear of something new, the second night I skipped, the third night I had dynamic meditation at 6 o’clock in the morning. That third night was wonderful and I was entranced by this ritual. I had seen the first time sky so colorful with brilliant stars. Everything was so intense and music was so beautiful. I had in my mind to observe and mind was doing so.
    Throughout the year, before he arranged for the following year, I was in a state of absolute surrender just as Indian women who are conditioned by thousands of years because it believes that the husband is God. There are millions of conditions which are believed by millions of individuals by name of qualities (love, religion, truth and so on…) that becomes part of culture as realties.
    I was crying just to hear the songs of this shaman.
    However, trusting in meditation and living in Europe, personally, I decided to invite friends to my house once a week for an Osho’s meditation.
    Before this shaman visited to Europe, I decided to do dynamic meditation for 21 days.
    It was three nights sessions ritual. So First night with great trust I participated the ritual.
    The ritual is based on music and singing songs so one could ride on the waves of music to have visions and so on…
    What I experienced was incredible, because I watched my mind. Under the effect, the thought process has become faster. And so quickly that a little thought begins to move in a circle, and if one may be able to observe, it is so easy to realize that the same thought passes on the screen many times. It creates two possibilities for poor mind, one is, too difficult to handle and second is, to enter into the waves that are created by the music and ritual…Have a ‘TRIP’…..
    First time I became aware of my mind. It just like, when in normal state of mind, ‘it’s as if we are moving in the car on the road having normal vision’ and in a state of hallucination of the mind, it’s as if we are in airplane over the road having different visions. In both cases, the mind is the one who plays the role.
    In meditation the mind has no role. Besides, who’s playing the role? The observer, observation is a quality that does not belong to the mind.
    Instead of entering in the waves that were created by music, I just started to look around and it was fun, because everyone was ecstatic. The only thing that surprised me to see their eyes were moving in a circle so fast. I just laughed and thought, ‘how the drug can fool a human being.’
    If it is that much easy then there is no need to invent meditation techniques, which are devises to be free from mind. These shamans and so-called spiritual teachers are interested in mind. It is easy for them to attract minds. I feel sorry for these so-called spiritual teachers and students because they gather only mentally sick people around. None of them are interested in meditation.
    I shared with great difficulty with my friends who have participated, but they didn’t understand. They think I lost the opportunity to experience and to be guided from above. In a sense they are right. I am very happy to lose this possibility.
    For me, this is the real difference between drug and meditation!!!

  148. Kranti says:

    Aman

    Good that you share such thoughts.. I have not experimented with drugs.. I used to rely on drinks for relaxation..But after listening to Osho and learning to stay with awareness i started hating that dullness of sense created by drinks.. Now i just dont have interest in drinks..

    Recently one of my friend gave me some substance which is normally taken in India commonly during festivals.. I took a heavier dose not knowing the effects..And i lost time sense for for few hours ..only space sense remained..But my awareness was good enough and i came out of it quickly and wowed to myself not to take these stupid stuff..There is no need.. Just staying aware and focusing on the Inner silence is so beautiful..

  149. Dear friends ;
    Just a word or two first about this way that this machine makes my spelling!
    The other subject matteris that all that I have read about aNYONE SPECIALY REGARDING ONES ´S SELF,IS:
    Youare all wright about your subjective experiences and the other is that whatever methods one uses will work out if :We are in touch with soror Teresinha du petit Jésus and whatever She ever asks to the sky above where Osho is all will be given to Her as the devine of almithy and her chanel are opened for the taking only with have to adress her as the almithy´s devine daughter!
    She given to each osho´s disciple or sri Ramasna,or Christ consciousness the same opportunity even not bothering wether one is Payan daughter or not!Simply can you dance?*Where from?
    Plesae ask Her to come and help Osho´s children!
    Amen;

  150. Spelling!my only trouble!

  151. Lokesh says:

    When I first met Osho in 1974 he asked me what I had been doing with my life.

    ‘Taking LSD every week for the past six years,’ I replied almost defiantly.

    The master chuckled and said, ‘Very good.’

    I was flabbergasted.

    ‘You have seen the peak of the holy mountain,’ Osho continued, ‘but every time the LSD wears off you are back where you started, or even lower in the foothills of consciousness. It is too easy to imagine that by taking a driug you can find God. If you wish to make your home in the peaks of consciousness you must meditate.’

    I strared doing all of the meditations that the master devised on a daily basis.

    That first evening with Osho was 35 years ago and a lot of water has passed under the Bund Garden Road bridge. One thing I am sure of: It was excellent advice from a wonderful being.

  152. Its not that meditation is weaker or stronger!
    Look if you were to take the stuff meditatively and enter in that world that often is called the shamanic world,one would encounter, what often one hears as help me find my unconscious…a door step to what can not be perceived under any other means other than LSD 25!
    Its not that one should engage in grug taking but if one is making experiments of drugs and meditation it pay tono that this unconscious often cannot be entered as we do in our daily unconsciousness…may otherwise be unwelcome psychological situation!
    A bad trip or journey can lead to psycosis or schisophrenia and m,ay be the healing much more difficult ?!
    Please be careful,otherwise very aware of such experiments and please ask the guidance of masters of consciousness to guide Us …that is even better!
    Best wishes,
    Osho is our love,
    Fairysaint our guide!