SN does wonder about the relevance of such Festivals in relation to Osho. He certainly was not a conventional Indian “guru”. No doubt there will be opinions! (SN)
Prem Naina wrote in the Assam Times on July 14, 2014.
Indian culture places ‘Gurus’ who impart knowledge, on par with the Gods. Acquiring that knowledge of the ultimate truth forms the basis for the future of man. Paying gratitude to a guru is like paying gratitude to truth, knowledge and invaluable experiences.
The day of full moon, Purnima, in the month of Ashadh is traditionally celebrated as Guru Purnima. Osho beautifully brought out the essence of guru purnima celebrations of the full moon night in the month of Ashadh. Osho says that a guru is like the moon who does not have any light of its own but draws the energy and light from the supreme soul. Unlike other full moon nights the moon in the month of Ashadh is surrounded by clouds as is a guru is surrounded by His disciples.
Also known as Vyas Purnima, the day is celebrated in remembrance and veneration to sage Ved Vyas. He is the Adi (original) Guru of the Hindu Dharma, who classified the Vedas, wrote the eighteen Puranas and the Mahabharat. The celebration or the observance of Guru Purnima was first done by the disciples of Vyas. The observance expanded beyond the constraints of Vyas and became known as Guru Purnima. Guru Purnima is the day when one expresses his gratitude to his Guru.
A guru is a personified phenomenon of total bliss. He is the one who liberates us and with whom we are in deep love, faith and reverence. Osho says a guru is a presence. Through him one will have the first glimpse of divinity. A guru creates, transforms and gives a new birth to a seeker so that with complete trust one can follow his guru while traveling through many unknown paths and doors and opening many unknown locks. Speaking on the significance of a guru, Osho says that a guru’s blessings is a vital phenomenon. Through a guru one can look into his own future and can be aware of his own destiny. Through him one starts coming up like a seed trying to sprout towards the sky.
Osho says: “The word ‘guru’ is untranslatable. Neither does the word ‘teacher’ nor the word ‘Master’ have that beauty. In fact, the phenomenon of the guru is so deeply Indian that no other language of any country is capable of translating it. It is something intrinsically Eastern. The word ‘guru’ is made of two words, ‘gu’ and ‘ru’. ‘Gu’ means darkness, ‘ru’ means one who dispels it. Guru literally means ‘the light’. And you have the light within you, yes! If you come across a Buddha or a Jesus or a Krishna or a Mahavir, it will be of tremendous help to you in finding your inner guru, because seeing Buddha, suddenly a great enthusiasm and hope will arise in you: “If it can happen to Buddha”- who is just like you, the same body, the same blood, bone, marrow – “if it can happen to this man, why not to me?” The hope is the beginning. Meeting with the Master on the outside is the beginning of a great hope, a great aspiration.” [1]
The world has become richer place by the very presence of the enlightened masters of the past. A guru gives the seeker a glimpse of the real, not a teaching, but an awakening. The guru is not a teacher, the guru is an awakener. And also there is a huge difference in the pull that one experiences towards a guru and towards a charismatic leader. A Guru means one who has gravitation, he is a tremendous magnet and so does a charismatic leader has the power to pull. But there is a tremendous difference between a charismatic leader and a guru. The difference is: when one is pulled towards a guru he suddenly feels that he is being pulled inwards, not outwards.
Osho shares, “When you are pulled towards Kabir, Nanak, Buddha, you have a strange feeling. The feeling is that you are being pulled towards them and at the same time you are being pulled inwards – a very strange paradoxical phenomenon. The more you become attracted towards the guru, the more you become independent. The more you become surrendered to the guru, the more you feel that you have freedom you never had before. If you are pulled towards a man and that pull creates a slavery, that man is not the guru. That man may have charisma, may have magnetic power – maybe his great intelligence, his physical beauty, or his sheer vitality pulls you – but you will be going away from yourself. It will be an infatuation. You will be obsessed with this man, and you will be off your center.” [2]
A guru is like a wind who cannot be seen but only experienced. One can only experience him and feel his touch but one cannot bind him because from whom one seeks liberation or beatitude cannot himself be taken captive. Connection with the guru is the relationship of the soul and the greatest of all the relationships. The guru is the end of this world and the beginning of the next. He is the gate. The relationship between a guru and a disciple is one of the greatest mysteries of existence. The guru is a presence and that presence is immensely nourishing.
Osho says, “Between a master and disciple the greatest mystery is lived, the deepest is lived, the highest flows. It is a relationship between the known and the unknown, between the finite and infinite, between time and eternity, between the seed and the flower, between the actual and the potential, between past and future. A disciple is only the past; the master is only the future. And here, this moment, in their deep love and waiting, they meet. The disciple is time, the master is eternity. The disciple is mind and the master is no-mind. The disciple is all that he knows, and a master is all that cannot be known. When the bridge happens between a master and a disciple, it is a miracle. To bridge the known with the unknown, and time with eternity, is a miracle.” [3]
True disciplehood is dissolving into the love and the presence of the guru and becoming one with his heartbeats. It is the opening up to receive the grace of the master, becoming vulnerable to his presence, dropping resistance, all defense measures, all armor, trusting that even if the Master kills, one is ready. Guru Purnima has a true spiritual meaning and relevance for a disciple. It is the day of expressing one’s love and devotion for his guru.
“This Guru Purnima Day is the day of all the Buddhas, all those who have become aware. In their remembrance, become aware.”
Bowing at the lotus feet of the master Osho on Guru Purnima.
Ma Prem Naina born in Jorhat, Assam, was initiated into Sannyas in 2003 at Oshodham, New Delhi. She is an MBA and also holds a Master’s degree in Mass Communication. Deeply inspired by the love and dedication of the founder of the Osho World Foundation in Delhi, Swami Om Prakash Saraswati, she left her career as a producer/journalist to join in Osho’s caravanserai. She presently heads the publications and media relations at Osho World Foundation, New Delhi. www.oshoworld.com
Actually, this is a comment for Anand Yogi…I am an ignorant on such matters.
Did you read Anubodh’s suggestion, Anthony?
It is quite hard to keep track with the new format where people are responding to individuals… Who suggested what to me?
MOD: ANUBODH SUGGESTED YOU’D BE WRITING TO THE DAILY MAIL, ANTHONY (‘Sweet Surrender’, July 12, 12.36pm)
Anthony, this is not a Satori group. Get a handle on it and slow down with the esoteric questions….it’s doing my head in.
Actually…nice one,mmm…
“Who is suggesting What?”
(There is no fence, there is no sitter…or in Spanish/English, dos lagers y un paquete de crisps, por favor).
“SN does wonder about the relevance of such Festivals in relation to Osho. He certainly was not a conventional Indian ‘guru’. No doubt there will be opinions! (SN).”
I hope this is not merely a social club where people throw opinions on everything and anything. In one of my earlier posts, I suggested that SN should try to summarize the discussions and try to come up with some suggestions or conclusions at the end of the thread.
Here is my sincere sharing re Osho’s work. The people who are doing his work ( for example, Pune team recently announced a 21 day online free daily meditation program, Arun I believe is travelling in UK and US to conduct camps etc. ), should divide into two different groups:
One group to simply focus on promoting Osho and the other to simply help the Sangha ( helping the seekers to come together, meditate and live together ).
Then there will not be any divisions. The teams who are promoting do not have to fight each other, rather help each other. Same way the other groups work together, no need to fight.
To draw opinions on whether to celebrate Guru Purnima or not is like drawing opinions on Newton’s laws of Gravity or Einstein’s theory of Relativity. because on Guru Purnima or Shivaratri, day, the whole universe is aligned in such a way that it supports meditativeness.
Why should there be any question on whether to celebrate or not? It’s like going to science lab and questioning Newton’s laws. It’s so childish of you, SN. Please stop this opinionating and dividing nonsense for heaven’s sake.
Yes, Newman,you are right!
The fact that on Guru Purnima day the whole universe is in perfect alignment for meditation is a proven fact by the Vedic Science of Starsigns in the same way that Newton`s Law of Gravity is measurable!
Also, when devoted disciples hurl themselves at the feet of the master and his representatives on Earth and hit their heads on the marble, it is a provable hypothesis that they experience higher consciousness…
The living evidence is those who have done it –
Newman, Shantam and myself…
Are not our outpourings of deep wisdom proof enough of this phenomenon?
Shantam’s words to the uninitiated are very similar to Einstein’s Law of Relativity!
It may sound like absolute nonsense to the common man who knows null about how religions evolve, but to he who knows, really knows, they give the fragrance of the beyond and the behind!
There are things handed down by infallible tradition that cannot be questioned!
In the East, we wear white robes.
In the West, scientists wear white coats.
Everything that scientists are finding has also been found by the Vedic sages and buddhas of many centuries before!
Authority cannot be questioned otherwise the masses will think for themselves and the mind is a very dangerous, divisive thing.
Sannyasnews is part of this mind which is dividing and opinionating!
Stop now!
Or forever bear the karma of colluding with alcoholic baboons and therapists who are resposible for the world descending into spiritual darkness!
Yahoo!
E=MCsquared!
F=ma!
Isaac Newman!
Hari Om!
Anand Newman, your suggestion re having two main groups running Sannyas leaves out what seems to be a major point of contention, ie the role and the nature of the Pune ashram, including how Osho is presented (or not presented), with critical implications as to what Sannyas is or ‘should’ be after Osho’s departure.
There’s the ‘crunch’, encapsulating key elements of radical differences between factions, more or less summarised by ‘East’ v ‘West’, devotee v non-devotee, traditional Indian v so-called ‘Zen’…
As for “…on Guru Purnima or Shivaratri, day, the whole universe is aligned in such a way that it supports meditativeness. Why should there be any question on whether to celebrate or not? It’s like going to science lab and questioning Newton’s laws. It’s so childish of you, SN” –
Where’s the evidence for this? Plenty in India, perhaps, but none anywhere else! Sounds like a classic piece of “childish” self-centredness to me. Unscientific, pseudo-spiritual codswallop, in fact!
Yes, SD, the universe aligning for Guru Purnima Day is er…ehm…stretching it a bit…ouch!
SD, feel free to un-prove the concepts. It’s very easy to ask someone to prove something.
AN, on the contrary, as you have made the assertion (I presume you refer to this so-called ‘universal alignment’) the onus is squarely upon you to demonstrate its truth.
Frankly, it’s transparent nonsense, as anyone with half-a-brain can see!
(Mind you, I’ve often enough thought you might be a ‘spoof’ character ‘on the wind-up’, as we say in the UK).
Yogi, great comment, most amusing.
Newman, you are well-intentioned, but totally naive. All these ‘leaders’ are politicians. They can’t stand the thought of sharing and adopting sensible suggestions.
Jerusalem need never be a problem between the faiths that love it and feel it is the centre of their universe, save for the political people in all the faiths who simply want it for their own.
The Crusades were there 800 years ago, and it is just the same today, people endlessly killing each other so they can ‘rule’ it.
To echo young Lokesh somewhere in this string, human life is perennial, the few rays of intense light from the enlightened only affect a few rare interested individuals, they never affect the course of human history in the round, which is just versions of fundamentalist nonsense leading to wars, which are just licensed places for murderers.
Surely Osho was a drug addict narcissist who encouraged such festivity.
Though I will say, every Osho festival has lost the relevance, just like leaves and fruit don´t grow from a fallen tree.
This post I am writing from a German seaside resort. It is bursting with people, young and old, top class infrastructure, shuttle taxi to take people to the beach, swimming pool and sauna…just like Jayesh´s Osho Resort.
Come, enjoy and go…
Question is, when thousands such resorts are full with people, why Pune Resort is crying for people just like a widow´s lonely nights?
By killing the emotions, you kill the love. In such man-made relations like master-disciple, role of emotions is paramount, otherwise what is the difference between an Acharya and an Osho?
But the answer’s obvious, Shantam. Pune itself is an unattractive destination, overcrowded, heavily polluted, expensive to get to as well. And without Osho’s presence, how many would really want to make the effort?
Tough, it seems, for those like yourself who place huge importance – and undue significance – on what might be termed ‘social excitement’, but I suggest you remember and meditate on Osho’s own warning, when inviting everyone to come to him, that ‘such a door won’t be open for long’ (not an exact quote, but the gist of what he said).
And if you find yourself unhappily ‘high and dry’, as it were, with ‘nowhere to go but down’, then I suggest you look closely at what you were or are really looking for. Because if it’s only or mainly ‘social excitement’ then right now you might be getting your just desserts, ie not what you wanted, but what you need. ‘Existence taking care’ again…?
I might well be way off track here, Shantam, but it’s occurred to me that perhaps your extreme concern for returning to ‘the good old days’ at the Pune ashram could be at least partly driven by a fear of being unable to rent out your property there (to ashram visitors @ maybe top, ‘western’ prices?).
“By killing the emotions, you kill the love. In such man-made relations like master-disciple, role of emotions is paramount, otherwise what is the difference between an Acharya and an Osho?”
On the other hand, Shantam, by making such extreme emotions so ultimately important (which for you are apparently bound up with the thirst for ‘social excitement’ I mentioned earlier) you are self-evidently the author of your own suffering, the discontent and unhappiness you have made sure everyone here knows about, having informed us time and again here over many years.
Since when has ‘love’ made anyone unhappy? Perhaps what you call ‘love’ is not that at all, but just emotion, basically emotional need. Like this need to ‘merge’ in excitement with thousands of others – somewhat similar to a football fan, in fact!
Perhaps that’s another lesson for you in the situation….
We have Osho…and we have Head of Media at Oshoworld.
Are we meant to trust that the person’s autodefinition is either definitive or accountable or find out about it and then see?
Here’s a test: Osho loved showers. Showers are blessed. I was formerly Head of the Shower-Ring And Sales company, ‘What A Shower We Are Ltd.’ I now am Head of Osho Universal Plumbing Supplies, Albania.
I like your syllogisms!
“The world has become richer place by the very presence of the enlightened masters of the past.”
I know what is meant by that, yet I doubt it is entirely true. I think one of the greatest of life’s illusions is the idea that humanity as a whole is progressing in some direction or other. Yes, some of our technological developments are remarkable etc., but we need only switch on our TV to see that it is the same old, same old…senseless violence, while the strong continue to dominate the weak.
I think the enlightened ones’ greatest gift is made manifest on an individul level and not a mass one, for they inspire in the individual the desire for something higher. Humanity as a whole would not understand this or be interested, especially today when the clamour of the senses is so intense and alluring.
Yes, Anand Yogi:
“…his representatives on Earth and hit their heads on the marble, it is a provable hypothesis that they experience higher consciousness.”
You and some others must have hit their heads quite hard on the marble – now I get a clue (maybe) where most of your contributions went through.
The few quotes (out of context like always) though
are very beautiful.
And thanks to Ma Prem Naina for this.
Madhu
Posting for Osho World: !!
http://app.streamsend.com/private/oYIS/KVr/9LoInLH/browse/21744677
Video keeps stopping, so I have only watched the first few minutes, but I’m not too impressed by a couple of things: a few of the people wearing a mala and what looks like fairly half-hearted efforts in the breathing (and hence, the cathartic) stage of dynamic.
Don’t they know the mala days are long gone – and that it’s supposed to be fast, chaotic (not rhythmic) breathing? Now (in broad Yorkshire accent, a la Fred Trueman/Geoff Boycott), in my day…
Nice place though….
Half-hearted…less than total…a bit slapdash – sounds like my kind of religion…What’s their phone number…Oh, just a minute, I forgot…I can’t be bothered, maybe tomorrow…yep, that works for me..!
As they say, this meditation lark is always full of surprises…I reckon it’s the old non-doing…pukka job.
P.S: If there’s a crying stage med-vid, does someone say, “cheer up, glum chops, it could be worse”?
We could be on the brink of a newly-found inspiring inertia…it could shatter our presumptions…
The Path of Yeah, That’ll Do
Tantra – Tune in, Turn On, Nod Off
Dance your way to the Armchair
Yoga – The Alpha and the O my God, is that the time? Sorry, must dash.
Gourishankar – Wave a torch in front of your eyes and then notice the pretty colours.
Sacred Dance – Look a bit serious, copy the person in front of you, er, that’s it.
Hi, hi, hi Martyn, is that the funny walk (mind’s) version of ‘Everything happens, what is, what is?’ or ehhhh…’The grass grows by itself’, or ehhhhhh…’I'm totally exhausted of being a ‘seeker” and ehhhhh, ‘You can cut off my head, but I want to hold the sword myself, so that it will only cut the air’…?
Yes, odd isn’t it, SD? That these guys want to run the world but can’t produce videos that run smoothly, etc.
Now with OIF you would never get that!
I agree about the half-hearted energy displayed on the video.
For me, celebrating Guru Purnima is like having Swami Arun going around dressed in orange, instigating people in his meetings to sing ‘the gauchamis’ – just old-fashioned stuff…and certainly uncool.
Anthony Thompson,
“Uncool”?
Do you think that the path to enlightenment is a fashion show for homosexuals dressing up in brightly coloured clothes, becoming meditation camp followers, singing silly songs and wearing jewellery?
No!
As Swami Arun and all the enlightened sages before him have said:
“I am what I am
and what I am needs no excuses!”
The fact that Anand Newman has been to Shivaratri celebrations, enjoyed good food and singalong company is scientific proof of the alignment of the planets!
Only a divisive baboon hopelessly lost in western rationality could fail to see that!
And of course the videos produced by Arun and Oshoworld keep stopping!
It is a device to stop your crazy monkey mind that always wants to control and for the ego have things its own way!
The function of the master is to completely scramble that internal video called mind!
And they are doing the work of the master perfectly well!
And Madhu, it is good that you are beginning to understand where we are coming from. As a westerner with baboonic tendencies, it may be difficult for you to appreciate the value of kissing marble that has been imbued with the energy of enlightenment, but if you put on a white coat or a white robe you will be able to test the scientific efficacy of it for yourself and not have to rely on the absurd reasoning of those like Satyadeva who are hopelessly in the thrall of the MIND!
Remember the words of the sage:
“Mind is as stupid as the people who have them!”
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
For the last few years I have been regular in celebrating Maha Sivaratri and Guru Purnima. I understand it’s not customary in some Osho circles, but I join other spiritual groups in the town who celebrate on these occasions. Usually, it’s a whole night of music, meditation, dance, good food and good ambience.
Well, AN, to be accurate in your statement of yesterday, instead of saying “the whole universe” it seems you should have written, “my whole universe, my town”?
Dear Satyadeva (16 July, 2014 at 11:59 am),
There is this old parable coming into my mind thatHe told us with one of His mischievous smiles. It’s about a village idiot He met when travelling and about this man´s complaints that he had to endure so much contempt from the village people – so the Master recommended him to just question everything with “where is your proof, where is the evidence ?” the moment someone who was admired by the village people gave a lecture on this and that.
Sure enough, the story goes that after a little while, the former village idiot became a famous man himself, admired by majorities for his insistent effort to declassify so-called celebrities.
This village idiot I feel is happening in each of us, sometimes more, sometimes less, and sometimes in situations with heart-breaking issues and in heart-breaking circumstances, which would indeed need all efforts to find connecting forces instead of dividing and fighting ones. (The kind of stuff Parmartha is referring to in his lines, referring to the murder of brothers and sisters elsewhere, just the moment I am writing this).
We are part of it all; if we deny it or not – and the quest seems to be:
in what way we do respond?
Do we play (in seemingly very fortunate surroundings) the intellectual, ´overlooking´ it all, do we play out utter crazy stuff just to boast that nothing matters, hiding hearts been shut off out of pain, or does a decision take place making space for prayer to happen?
Who is there to decide if that prayer is valuable or not?
I would say, nobody is.
From the way most of the contributions here on Guru Purnima ‘events’ have been happening, the writers seem more intrigued by dividing than connecting friends.
Realigning to the love and the dignity of expressing gratitude for those we have been able to meet as ‘wisdom whisperers’ throughout the ages, is for me the sense of Guru Purnima as a celebration day.
Could be every day, couldn’t it ?
However, the truth is that it is always a very individual issue, there I am with you, Lokesh, and Parmartha too.
Yet it´s very beautiful to celebrate it, and it´s also beautiful to celebrate it together.
The Indian ritual, to have a day for ALL the wisdom whisperers, to dedicate gratitude for THIS is for me what a Guru Purnima is all about – and I feel that in our culture this kind of approach IS missing.
And no, Satyadeva, we, here, have all kinds of special ‘holy’ days in our culture religion programming (in Catholicism), which are dedicated on a very personal level to remarkable and as ‘holy’ declared humans.
To participate in a form of gratitude for the way the Indian culture has brought their flavours to these gifts is for me not something to neglect or speak about with contempt.
And I say that in spite of as well as because of the current worldwide war issues,
century-long war issues also of shameful ‘religious’ wars of devastating stupidity.
Madhu
Madhu, I’ve nothing against Guru Purnima Day celebrations, although it’s irrelevant, even alien, to me, coming as it does from another culture. (What’s that word already forming in all would-be ‘devotional’ western minds – ‘heresy’?!).
I was pointing out to Anand Yogi that saying, “on Guru Purnima or Shivaratri, day, the whole universe is aligned in such a way that it supports meditativeness” is a patently absurd exaggeration, that’s all.
It is not an exageration!
It is plain fact for those who have eyes to see,
ears to hear,
and a nose to smell what is beyond surface sense impressions and is coming from the behind, especially from those of us whom it blows through like a breeze or even a typhoon!.
I am not afraid to admit that along with Shantam and Newman, I am such a one!
I have banged my head against the marble that has been deeply interfused with the vibrations of the awakened ones and my chakras have been scientifically activated as validated by the holy Vedas!
Poetry, pure mystic poetry can issue forth from all the orifices.
It is indeed a blessed state we are in!
Swaha!
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
Anand Yogi, this is most interesting. Could you please tell us where and exactly how you celebrated Guru Purnima Day, 2014?
One assumes, of course, that you’re either Indian or more or less of that, er, ‘persuasion’?
Satya Deva,
I will tell you.
I remained in my room.
After all, when one has reached, where is there to go?
I donned my white robe, put on my mala, placed a latge chunk of Osho marble on my forehead and let go into the scientifically aligned Purnima vibrations of the universe!
My scientific friends surrounded my bed, dressed in white coats and held my hands as I writhed and screamed in ecstasy…
Ah this…bliss….
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
“writhed and screamed in ecstasy”
Isn’t there a danger of something really horrible happening to your chuddies when you do that?
Arpana,
The so-called English sense of humour can be very negative and destructive.
You laugh at so-called “chuddies”, but you have little knowledge of the extensive and inner-scientifically established relationship between holy underwear and enlightenment!
If you study the wisdom of the inner science of the Vedas you will realise that Existence itself came into being due to a langotri or jockstrap.
But ignorant baboons such as yourself see only the opportunity for infantile girlish giggles.
Being brought up in a world where war comics took the place of holy scriptures you probably have sung the tune, ‘Hitler Has Only Got One Ball’ and found it extremely funny.
You will not be aware that the hidden truth of the story, known to initiates of the great masters, is that Hitler did indeed have only one ball, as the other one was dematerialised in a tantric ritual involving some very high lamas, some brahmins, several cups of soma and a ritual Tibetan flaying knife in an attempt by Ashoka’s Nine Men to influence the outcome of history through occult means!
And the work continues today with Arun and Modi working 24/7 for a better world for you to live in!
And what do you do?
Deride and laugh at it!
And instead of meditating, baboons like yourself simply sit around doing nothing, telling old jokes and laughing.
It is a disgrace to the enlightened lineages and a personal affront to Shantam, Newman and myself, who have worked so hard to preserve Osho’s legacy.
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
OMG.
How did you know I used to sing, ‘Hitler Has Only Got One Ball’? That’s a bit scary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtOCgPITb4
More likely, when we support (be) meditativeness, the whole universe aligns with us, so if Shivaratri is a form of meditativness, then to that extent the universe will align with it. It’s just methametics.
I used to love Guru Purnima day when the old boy was alive and kicking. It was fun and I was enjoying very much holy prasad sweetie. Seems like another lifetime now.
Anand Newman, you wrote:
“I hope this is not merely a social club where people throw opinions on everything and anything.”
With your innovative idea to unite the world of Sannyas by dividing it.
May I ask: What was Arun’s response when you pitched the idea to him?
I imagine Arun’s response was almost certainly similar to the Daily Mail’s when they read Anthony’s articulate, academically sound, unbiased defence of Osho in his recent letter, Anubodh.
(Er, presumably Anthony has written that letter…?)
I can think of seven good reasons and one golden one that shows if the universe is aligned with anything, then it’s aligned with Deutschland.
Dear Karima,
“More likely, when we support (be) meditativeness, the whole universe aligns with us, so if Shivaratri is a form of meditativness, then to that extent the universe will align with it. It’s just methametics.”
What you wrote I came to know as one of the self-fulfilling prophecy mantras of some esoteric lounge or other. Having lots of merchandisers and attracting lots of clients, especially in times of chaos, disempowerment, helplessness and loss of security and trustworthiness in inter-human traffic so to say – on all levels.
The dream to get in ‘control’, even when it is brought up so charmingly and seductively and even scientifically camouflaged -
is a dream.
Sometimes you lose track with a ‘pink’ blindfold of this kind,
yet you may not even recognise that because this kind of ‘dope’ is so attractive.
I remember the ‘Existence takes care’ mantra in this context as also one of the jokes He told us, about a man jumping off a so-and-so storey, huge building, talking to himself when passing the windows:
“Aaahh, so far it all went good….”
Remember then, we all laughed again , sitting nice and cosy (more or less cosy) on our meditation cushions…
It is said and written too somewhere as a quote from Osho, ‘The only thing you have to take seriously are my jokes’.
And at least I don´t remember that He ever renounced this special sentence like He spread paradoxes any moment about most other issues He was talking about.
The ‘Big Joke Book’ has a prominent place on my bookshelves -
and I tell you, I am not ready for it every day because it is such strong stuff.
Madhu
Thank you, Madhu, I can see your point of vieuw, but what I wrote was not meant to see Existence through rosy coloured specs, and believing it will take care of everything.
But the paradox is, if I absolutely had no doubt that this was true, then consequently Existence taking care would automatically happen, because when doubt, ego totally let go, a vacuum gets created and Existence moves in as the rightful owner.
Existence was always the rightful owner and the pseudo owner didn’t really exist, only my belief in it. This is my intellectual understanding of this grand play called Leela.
So what, in real-life practical terms would it actually mean for “Existence to take care of everything”, Karima? How would your or my or anyone’s life, for example, change? I’m trying to get down to details we can all understand rather than swim around in a pool of ‘spiritual mumbo-jumbo’, where I might imagine I know what you mean, but in reality not have a clue.
Presumably, it means “no worries”, as the Aussies say? Does that include not having medical insurance, for example? Or a job? How about politics – current Sannyas ‘politics’, for instance? What about the inner world, the tricky stuff that people go to therapies for? What about emotional attachments? Sex? Love, even?
These are probably foolish-sounding, simple-minded questions, but can we bring it all down-to-earth, in terms we can easily relate to?
Or, is ‘Existence’ already ‘taking care of everything’ anyway, eg we’ve been born, are living, and will one day not be here any more; and the Earth continues on its inexorable way around the Sun, the seasons come and go, the universe is expanding (so we hear), and so on and on..?
Or, is it that ‘Existence takes care of everything’ when we, ie the individual, has done his/her ‘share’ of the ‘work’?
IE, ‘Existence is taking care’ of a lot of things, but by no means everything?
Who knows, perhaps ‘Existence takes care’ could not only refer to the ‘nice’ stuff, maybe it could be expanded to include the whole lot – war, premature death, disease, fatal accidents, mental and physical disability, hurricanes, shipwrecks, floods, famines etc. etc…?
Hi Satydeva, it’s a bit like a koan, is’nt it? And it’s interesting to discuss about it, Existence taking care of everything…and is this just a belief, or a mantra, or is it my Living Truth?
For me, the things I’m writing down here are like pointers, they surface again and again afterwards, and like in Enlightenment Intensive the question is: is this true, or is it just a belief? So this is the bottom line, otherwise it’s just a fighting and comparing with points of view, as if to say: the point of vieuw from where I’m seeing Truth or Existence is better then your point of vieuw from where you see Existence!
In my experience, what I wrote about Existence is not just spiritual mumbo jumbo; yes, as a concept it is, but the challenge moment-to-moment, to see what is mumbo-jumbo and not true, and then let it go, is hard work, and ultimately an act of surrender.
P.S:
As social networking and ‘GAME’ with humans declared as targets in civil surroundings (!) are capturing more and more areas in civil life ( not only in areas where war and war logistics are so prominent and tangible and seeable), we have indeed a paradigm change in human-to-human affairs. And a mass MOB flatliner which quite often is unbearable for me.
Esoteric mantras are not the way to face it, because esoteric mantras any copy/paster can download on his or her smartphone as well as go into dataphishing a suitable ‘identity’.
So many new issues have come into life to deal with and many symptoms of a humanity in a mass mob atmosphere of immaturity in progress have to be faced.
And this is sometimes so ‘beyond a joke’ that some really good jokes as jokes are also needed to be shared.
But Madhu, can we truly change the mob mentality? The most dark and sinister things are happening on this planet, we can truly see ego in its ‘finest’ hour, or in its last convulsions, perhaps. But it’s always about the belief that the ‘other’ is the enemy, and that the ‘other’ has to be controlled, conquered and preferably destroyed.
By seeing that in such a big way on the outside, I can also see this inclination of the same ego in myself, and only from myself I can start seeing this ego for what it is.
And by the way, Satyadeva, what was and is one of the hardest and most painful things to digest was and is that I also came to know people in the last two decades having utter fun in trespassing the way I have mentioned, whom I had known for a long time ‘sitting silently, doing nothing’ close to me.
And then in a new phase, riding the wave of trespassing and the social foul play open scene, the way psychopaths like to go in action (team-wise). Not in an encounter session ‘Veeresh style’ but more like the ‘city jungle’ kind of plays which sell so well in free tv stations that more and more like foul plays in the city to get it more ‘authentic’.
So, again and again, we are part of anything happening these times, also the very shady parts….
Madhu
Karima (at7.01 pm),
You misunderstood -
and I am quite sure you will find a way to eloquently respond that it´s me who does not understand.
And maybe Arpana’s new piece on ‘Hitler’ is just tiring me of either responding with esoteric eloquence or some old pattern of self-service ‘go’ on a caravanserai-autobahn…
So – just for the moment – I’d like to ask you if you could read what I answered to the questions of the moderators (at 6.00 pm) and to Satyadeva (at 6.20 pm)?
There are indeed many ways to get silenced and there are other ways to share a silence or what comes out of silence, if these are words then as a response and not out of a robot-like repetitive old mechanism.
I am tired just now, very much so,
and tomorrow, if that happens, is another day.
Madhu
Madhu.
I have never, for even a second, thought of you as someone associated with Hitler.
Dear Madhu, I hope I do understand where you are coming from. And I sense a sadness, also in myself.
From what I gather about your last post is that you mean (correct me if i’m wrong) that the personality (ego) uses Truth, insight and silence to manipulate and silence others? And the harm and hurt it can cause?