Rescinded Osho Trademarks Listed

US OSHO TRADEMARKS UNDONE

Following the order by the United States Court of Appeals of the Federal Circuit, Washington, the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) canceled the trademarks of Osho on July 31, 2009.

The USPTO website http://www.ttabvue.uspto.gov is now showing the cancellation.

Osho Friends opposed various applications for registration of US trademarks related to Osho and also filed for cancellation of trademarks already registered. The list of above mentioned trademarks are as follows:

US Trademarks Registered – Now Canceled

1. Osho

Application for registering as Trademark was first filed on January 07, 1992 and registered on January 11, 1994 under the category of Books and printed materials for education purpose in the field of religion and philosophy in International Class 16

Applied for registration on March 17, 1997 and registered on August 11, 1998 under the category of Pre-recorded audio and video tapes in the field of education, religion, philosophy and science in International Class 9

Applied for registration on March 17, 1997, and Registered on July 21, 1998, under the category of Providing religion, philosophy and science information via a global computer network in International Class 42

2. Osho Rebalancing

Application for registering as Trademark was filed on December 29, 1997 and registered on February 29, 2000 under the category of Books and printed materials for education purpose in the field of religion and philosophy in International Class 16

All the above registered Trademarks were cancelled on Jul 7, 2009 as a result of Trademark Trial and Appeal Board proceedings.

Applications made for Registrations – Now Refused

1. Osho Active Meditations

Applied for registration On October 29, 1999, under the category of Educational services, namely, conducting individual sessions, workshops, retreats, seminars, groups, courses and training in the field of the teachings of the Mystic Osho in International Class 41

Also applied for registration under the category of Spiritual counseling and meditations, in International Class 42

2. Osho Kundalini Meditation

Applied for registration on November 03, 2000 under the category of Educational services, namely, conducting individual sessions, workshops, retreats, seminars, groups, courses and training in the field of the teachings of the Mystic Osho in International Class 41

Also applied for registration under the category of Spiritual counseling and meditations, in International Class 42

3. Osho Nadabrahma Meditation

Applied for registration on April 15, 1999 under the category of Educational services, namely, conducting individual sessions, workshops, retreats, seminars, groups, courses and training in the field of the teachings of the Mystic Osho in International Class 41

4. Osho Zen Tarot

Applied for registration on November 03, 2000 under the category of Instructional books and playing cards for the game of Tarot in International Class 16

Also applied for registration under the category of Entertainment services, namely, providing an on-line computer game under International Class 41

5. Osho Transformation Tarot

Applied for registration on November 03, 2000 under the category of Instructional books and playing cards for the game of Tarot in International Class 16

Also applied for registration under the category of Entertainment services, namely, providing an on-line computer game under International Class 41

6. Osho Meditation Resort

Applied for registration on February 14, 2001, under the category of Educational services, namely, conducting individual sessions, workshops, retreats, seminars, groups, courses and training in the field of the teachings of the Mystic Osho in International Class 41

Also applied for registration under the category of Spiritual counseling and meditations, and providing meditation information via a global computer information network in International Class 42

7. Osho Multiversity

Applied for registration on November 03, 2000, under the category of Educational services, namely, conducting individual sessions, workshops, retreats, seminars, groups, courses and training in the field of the teachings of the Mystic Osho in International Class 41

Also applied for registration under the category of Spiritual counseling and meditations, and providing meditation information via a global computer information network in International Class 42

8. Osho Times

Applied for registration on November 02, 2000, under the category of On-line periodical relating to the spiritual and mystical teachings of the Mystic Osho in International Class 42

All the above Trademark applications were abandoned on Jul 7, 2009 as a result of Trademark Trial and Appeal Board proceedings.

COMMENT from Osho Friends:
Soon after Osho, left His body in 1990, Osho International Foundation (OIF) Zurich, started to register the name Osho and His Meditations as trade marks in the USA.

In March 2000, a web site www.oshoworld.com dedicated to making the huge volume of Osho discourses freely available on the internet, was served with a notice and pulled down from the net. Relying upon their registrations of trademarks, the Zurich entity tried to force Osho Dhyan Mandir to abandon the domain name www.oshoworld.com and transfer its ownership to them. In its verdict on July 28, 2000 the National Arbitration Forum of USA decided in favor of Osho Dhyan Mandir.

It was during that time the trademarks of Osho registered in the US came to the notice of Osho Friends.

When it became clear that the Zurich entity was working towards legal ownership and control of the Osho movement and centers around the world, Osho Friends decided in 2000 to file for cancellation of the said trademarks. Osho Friends is an association of sannyasins, friends and lovers of Osho from around the world.

The trademarks of Osho in the US now finally stands as canceled.

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128 Responses to Rescinded Osho Trademarks Listed

  1. Kranti says:

    ” It was during that time the trademarks of Osho registered in the US came to the notice of Osho Friends’

    Before that they never knew….So they very innocently tried to register a website using Osho name..OIF didnt like the innocence of OFI & took them to court…… OK We believe it…..What else we can do now..

  2. Anthony Thompson says:

    I am looking at a catalog from the courses and meditations in the ranch. the catalog is from 1984. All the meditations have TM sigh after them and at the bottom it is printed that Rajneesh is a trademark of the Rajneesh International foundation. all this was done when Osho was alive and kicking.

    All the time everybody needed a permission to open an osho meditation center from the central headquarters, were they in pune or at the ranch.

    The foundation around Osho has always have the control over meditation centers. They decided to whom they gave authorization and to whom they did not.

    To say that this started in the year 2000 is a a plain lie.
    To say that osho did not want his name trade marked is also a lie: as we can see that from the time he was in the US, the trade mark was being enforced.

    I said before that I know the case of a tantra groups is Brazil using the name Rajneesh that were stopped under Osho´s guide lines because they were just an excuse to have sex. the way it was stopped then was by enforcing the Rajneesh trademark.

    I understand that “osho world” wanted a piece of the cake. but to say that all this started after osho´s death is a lie.

  3. Kranti says:

    You hit the nail on the head Anthony..

  4. Anthony Thompson says:

    All this has nothing to do with the ” real wish of the master”. It is just a power struggle.
    I saw a book compilation called “Einstein, the Buddha” published by the people from osho world.
    Osho would have never come out with such name, Einstein was brilliant scientist but not a buddha.
    We could get soon “Freud, the awaken one”, “Heidegger, the seeker of truth”.
    If you want to make a compilation from osho ´s discourses you can get him to say anything you want. probably you could even publish a book on interior Design.

    One thing is to say ” hey guys we also want to do compilations and a piece of the cake..,come on share it with us”. and another thing is to say Osho never wanted copyright… just freedom.

    So you are trying to say He did want Rajneesh copyrighted and enforced, but not Osho?
    come on! we are not that dumb!

  5. shantam prem says:

    Anthony,
    it is after a long time i get the opportunity to appreciate your logic.

    come on! we are not that dumb!
    This should be hammered in the ears of people who are in the authority, specially the organisations where emotions play a fueling role.

    But on the other side, one must appreciate the legal fight between David and Goliath. The OIF has money and brilliancy in the head, therefore arrogance and en capsuled attitude alienated them from the other millions of people connected with Osho.They forgot that people are not dumb.

    In their own turf, they have got a crushing defeat..
    I am not a person who celebrate at the defeat of any body. Win win is the flavour of our time.
    But keeping in mind the overall picture, it is a very good sign for Osho’s work.
    I am sure, Osho world will again bring all the Osho talks on internet.
    What i don’t get till now is whether they will also have the right to sell MP3 series of Osho Talks.
    I know millions of people would like to have His MP3′s to enjoy the outer journey in their cars.
    My hypothesis is that the Awakened one does not need any outer control, everybody else must follow the system of check and balance, that is the only way to avoid the power ulcer!

  6. shantam prem says:

    PS-who so ever firm broadcasts His discourses, my only suggestion is to change the introductory sentence.
    During the Doctroing phase, It is Devendra’s voice in all most all the Hindi discourses,( about English i am not sure), as he was the one man team of audio video.
    In hundreds of discourses, one man’s voice and that too so artificial as if he is mourning somone.

  7. Dilruba says:

    Yes l agree with you Anthony this has nothing to do with ” the real wish of the Master ”

    in 1999 .. Kirti compiled a book ” lndia my Love ” l felt exactly what you are feeling today .. lam really amazed at how these guys can thrust their narrow vision and call it ” Osho’s Vision ”

    maybe all these authoritative guys can come together for once and work together on how to set this issue of copyrights & trademarks straight … instead gropping in the dark … waiting for the next court case …

  8. Anthony Thompson says:

    One of the things that i have always hated about the powered ones in Pune and Osho world are the euphemistic ways of expressing. never telling their real intentions and always hiding behind what osho said.

    Why not Osho world, neelam and the rest say: we want part of the scene. we also want power. we want to initiate sannyasins, we want to publish books and get money for it. we want to be also able to represent osho.

    Nop they say, Osho was for trademark freedom. Then they bring the famous discourse about that. discourse that he never meant for his own copyright, but for buddha´s, but they do not say that…of course not.
    Osho was the person most interested in the world to be photographed, to be recorded AND to be trademarked. To present him like someone who did not care about that is a disgrace.
    HE WANTED HIS NAME TRADEMARKED.
    Of course he did not know that the people from his inner circle will start fighting among each other and consider themselves the real heirs… that is another matter.

  9. Anthony Thompson says:

    Regarding ” India my Love”. It is a joke.
    Osho hated the indian culture. he thought them ineficient, dirty, cheaters, sexually repressed, full of belief systems. he just said some nice things to butter their backs , so that they could hear them. In the same way that he said nice things about jesus so that westeners would hear him.

    Afterward, in the ranch he came clean and explained how it was all a strategy to get audiences to listen to Him. He was very didactic to explain what he ” really” thought about all those ” great”people.

    The book you mention was an advertising policy from the ashram. Garimo herself said. If we were still in America we would publish America my love, compiling all the nice things he ever said about the US. … and leaving out the thousands of things he said against that country.
    actually… I am sick of all this manipulation.

  10. shantam prem says:

    Of course He(Osho) did not know that the people from His inner circle will start fighting among each other and consider themselves the real heirs…

    This is the question worth medical examination.

  11. shantam prem says:

    actually… I am sick of all this manipulation..

    Anthony, show the courage and accept that MANIPULATION is being done from everyside.

    Do you have the fear that if you use the same surgical knife for the ruling party, they will not allow your entry in the club med.?

  12. Dilruba says:

    Yes Anthony … now these guys need to go beyond these Marketing strategies … as you said ”’come on , we are not that dumb ” here we means not only sanyassins … but also the rest of whole world …

  13. Dilruba says:

    Anthony … l differ that ” he didnt know that the people from his inner circle will start fighting among each other and consider themselves the real heirs .. ” Osho definitely knew this … thats the reason he didnt declare an heir … your right that ” this is
    another matter ”

  14. groucho marx says:

    Anthony is right,
    All these Self-appointed representatives of `Seekers of Truth`,are a bunch of Lying Politicos.
    If you want to swim in a Cess Pool of Lies,get in with them and join their bogus struggles,just dont expect to come out smelling of roses!

  15. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam I said:
    “One of the things that i have always hated about the powered ones in Pune and Osho world are the euphemistic ways of expressing. never telling their real intentions and always hiding behind what osho said.”

    That includes both parties

  16. Dilruba says:

    G Marx .. l feel we are all responsible for whats happening … and so cannot escape … by making a statement like you did …
    These guys can go forward not by jus watching but coming together to discuss what can be the best way to resolve this current crisis of trademarks & copyrights … if it is an issue … which is affecting their Work … and we should let them know we are all with them … even though we have not participated actively in the Work they are doing … how that can be done ?
    is the question ..

  17. Dilruba says:

    l personally donot have any intension to work actively … but would like support them anyway ….

  18. shantam prem says:

    “One of the things that i have always hated about the powered ones in Pune and Osho world are the euphemistic ways of expressing. never telling their real intentions and always hiding behind what osho said.”…

    Anthony today your words are in flow..

    We are coming closer to our purpose of meeting here, to remind the chosen few to be honest, caring loving and truthful, the very qualities make the difference between the disciple and the priests.

    I twas during 1988-89, when Amrito read the message from Osho before the evening meeting, reminding the seekers in us the difference between the need and the greed and that, we can never reach the right end through the false means..
    NOW is the right time to follow rather than preaching.
    It is never too late. To err is human, to forgive is divine and to learn with humility is joyous.
    THE DIALOGUE, the middle way can solve the purpose otherwise the legal fight will start at another front, the very structure of 17, Koregaon Park, Pune.

  19. Kartar says:

    Good to step back and look at this whole fiasco as a whole, and wonder if we’re not all idiots, cluching to the vain hope that our criticisms, explanations, or persuasions will somehow change someone’s mind for what is to be more balanced or better.

    The battle has always been and will always be for those in the middle. I’d like to think I’m in the middle but unlike those on the ends, I think that’s exactly where I and the majority of people remain. Yes, straddling the fence involves the fence being uncomfortably entrenched up my nether regions but I’ll deal with it.

  20. Dilruba says:

    Kartar .. Probably everyone feels they are in the middle … and the middle is so conjested that the centre is lost ……

  21. shantam prem says:

    and wonder if we’re not all idiots, cluching to the vain hope that our criticisms, explanations, or persuasions will somehow change someone’s mind for what is to be more balanced or better. …

    Kartar Swami,
    Look at the history of human evolution and system development, the voice of honest criticism, the logical voice expressing the pain and anguish of human heart has done the miracles, somehow there is a certain kind of mystery surrounding the earth and an intrinsic longing to grow and modify. Custom sensitive companies recall their product back if just few pieces in the market are found defected, religious arrogance take may be hundred times more time, but in the end even Church will allow the same sex marriages!

    And this friction is utterly beautiful, may be because of this a system around Osho will take place, more efficient yet heart oriented for the generations to come, many of His first generation sannyasins, first row or the back, are already on the way towards the Q for the next life.

  22. Kranti says:

    Kartar…Somone has to speak up sometime.. any change starts that way..

  23. Kranti says:

    ” Why not Osho world, neelam and the rest say: we want part of the scene. we also want power. we want to initiate sannyasins, we want to publish books and get money for it. we want to be also able to represent osho.”

    Yes Anthony.. I wanted to say the samething yesterday.. But i felt a sense of tiredness and didnt post more

    Shantam:

    Pune mgt may not be perfect in their interpretations of Osho Vision.. It happens when you see the way Osho has contradicted himself..although He had His reasons about the context in which He spoke..But at least i see a Honesty in their adamancy

    But i dont see that in others…. at least looking from outside it always looks like ‘ i want my share of cake..i will do anything for that ..like twisting what Osho wanted …saying He never wanted copyrights etc..’

  24. Kranti says:

    Ask Sw Atul to say something on the issue of Osho wanting one world headquarters responsible for publishing…

    It is in the OFI website ” The world headquarters will be publishing my books, will be releasing my tapes, videotapes, will be doing every kind of work. But it has no domination over anybody. All communes of the world are independent….. ”

    Going by what Osho said they should have fought for better operational freedom to run meditation centers through communication..That should have been a genuine effort…..

    To achieve their aim they took the battle in wrong direction..by asking for free trademarks which is wrong from word go as you can see from Anthony’s posts about trademark being available when Osho was in the body…I dont see honesty & authenticity in Sw Atul’s intentions..

  25. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,

    There is a clear honest and fair attitude in the dealing of Pune management. It is being run by the western way of management.
    You as a management guy working in an Multi national must be aware about the way international business organisations are run and the way our own Indian SATYAM(Truth) was run.

    Osho is the master of our time who has pointed the half beauty of east and west and also their limitations.
    His new man, the complete man is the combination of east and west both.
    In this process of far reaching importance, He has consumed His energy extensively. Just as an Indian Guru, he was already speaking with the gatherings of 50-80 thousands people back in 1960′s, and being the guest of the rich industrial giants of his time.

    Osho’s contribution is immense in provoking the merger of two distinctive hemispheres of mother earth or our brain.

    Again shit happens when out of over confidence, instead of the rotten part we throw the healthy part away.
    use the heart of the cold west and mind of Hot India; and you have the best recipe of a worst kind.
    One can try to drink a coffee with Salt and having a Sambhar with sugar!

    Just remembered a heart touching story story written by a famous Indian poet Gulzar, it is about the partition time in 1947.
    A couple is sitting with other thousands on the roof of the train on the way towards the new Indian boarder.
    People are worried that train reached safely and is not burnt by the mob mentality of anther religion.
    The wife is oblivious to this all, she is sobbing as one of her twin child has died in this stressful journey.
    This is nerving the other co passengers.
    When train was over the river’s bridge,Husband out of stress snatches the child from her arms, throws the body in the river and shouts,” In this time of crisis how long you will go on mourning the dead child.”
    But ….. in this hurry, he has thrown in the river, sleepy healthy child!

  26. Kranti says:

    Shantam.. I understand.. Thats why i said ‘ Pune mgt may not be perfect in their interpretations of Osho Vision.. It happens when you see the way Osho has contradicted himself …”

    My point is differences of opinons on Heart Vs Head and resolving them through communication is not related to Free Trademarks..

    I am also not saying OFI started wrongly when claiming freedom to run centers or fighting against HEAD only approach.. But when they couldnt achieve the same they opted to fight for Free Trademark…Which is actually like what you said in that story..’ in this hurry, he has thrown in the river, sleepy healthy child!”

    OFI in their intentions to get operational freedom to run centers has opened the door for Free Osho which is equivelnt to throwing the healthy baby also.. Because by doing that they have thrown open all possibilities for people corrupting Osho name..

    They keep saying wherever they see Osho name being used wrongly they will fight by gathering sannyasins energy.. I want to know whether they have done something about Ohodhara or any other center which misuses Osho name? If i see them doing that parellelly then at least to some extent we can accept the honesty of their intentios although the methods adopted to free osho will still be inaccurate from a larger perspective

  27. Alok john says:

    I agree with Anthony and Kranti

  28. Dilruba says:

    OlF / Anando / Shunyo / Manisha / Devageet / Osho Dhara / Osho World / Osho Nisarga / Sw Chaitanya Bharti / Sw Yoga Chinmay / Sw Narendra Bodhisatva /Sw Anand Vijay /Sw Swabhav / Sw Anand Arun …
    Can you All meet First … and surely you are All capable of sorting out all difference of opinions on this trademark & copyright issue … but for that you need to meet .. together and Decide … maybe its time to treat this as a Priority ..
    This is my Humble Request to All of You -
    Dilruba

  29. shantam Prem says:

    The issue which was needed to resolve amicably finally has been resolved in the US courts.
    The difference in the abbreviations of OFI and OIF, i cannot get. It is easier to deal with humans than with legal entities, so i use Jayesh’s team and Atuls’s team.
    I don’ know much about Atul, never seen even his photo. As i have heard that he is a son of late Swami Om Parkash Saraswati, a well loved father figure in Delhi sannyas scene. It is being said that Atul got an extra ordinary lucrative, cotton products export contract and wished to share this money for His master’s work.
    His wife was once a top notch Lieutenant of Oshodhara but later on felt disillusioned from the three snake charmers and has disintegrated herself from Osho LTTE.

    Now the Genesis of this expansive legal fight. First of all we should drop the myth that groups and seminars have more value than Placebos. They work quite well when there is no real need. For real conflicts there are courts and lawyers and their bills, even when a lawyer of civil suit goes for toilet he can add those minutes in the bill, if he is thinking about the case while shitting. What to do?’
    For imaginary fights, one can use the heavy breathing and visualise the golden aura surrounding us and frozen issues melting like candle in the wind!!

    Captain Jayesh expells his co players from the main stream and than hinders them to start their own abode, their own working model as a homage to the common Master. I think it was a first time in the history of Osho that a full page advertisement was given in the national dailies to discard a single person called Neelam and to give the reasons for her expulsion.My God…this is a Sunny Shia fight of 21st century.( I have not seen the papers of this ad. as their was no Internet edition available, if the ad was just a rumour, i apologise).

    During the early issues of Osho World, they used to run the advertisement of Oshodhara too. In this context i have written an open letter in sannasworld.com in the following link-

    http://www.sannyasworld.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=343

    No need to say, sometime a writing of one person gives the voice to many and result happens, as i have heard Osho saying even a small grass blade has the worth not less than a far away star.

    Now back to future-
    it is also a myth or a fear that their are forces out there to destroy His legacy by contaminating His vision. Many times houses get burnt down not because of terrorist bombs but because of leakage in internal wiring’s or leakage in cooking gas or simply the cigarettes burning the bed and than the house.
    I am sure no entrepreneur will invest millions to start producing Osho condoms( it can be a fitting homage to the sex guru with 93 Rolls Royce’s). Americans will love such libido enhancing accessories!¨

    Yes..on some level a low cost damage is done, specially when someone sells Osho’s complete Hindi/English discourses in a bargain price of 750 Rupees only.
    The technology has made this possible and we can only hope that both these groups will provide cost effective yet aesthetically produced voice recordings of His discourses. Let they create a target of selling 20 million MP3′s of His discourses in the year 2010.
    More and more people get enchanted with His alluring voice, less is the chance of any contamination or dilution.

  30. Dilruba says:

    Sanyasnews … Can my previous thread be treated as a new thread .. Dilruba

  31. Dhyan Gregory says:

    “The issue which was needed to resolve amicably finally has been resolved in the US courts.”

    Had it been possible to resolve it amicably, the Inner Circle of 21 would not have split in the first place. The 21 members didn’t have enough spirit to counterbalance the inevitable centrifugal forces. The first calamity and the last.

    “Captain Jayesh expells his co players from the main stream and than hinders them to start their own abode, their own working model as a homage to the common Master.”

    It’s natural. Osho whispered in Jayesh’s ear, “I leave you my dream”. I trust he filled in this blank cheque to the best of his ability. It’s equally natural that Keerti, Neelam and Arun feel they would’ve done a better job.

    Perhaps a good time to start reading Wilhelm Reich’s “Listen, Little Man!”
    Writes Osho in his “Books I have Loved”: “This book should be meditated upon by all my sannyasins. I recommend it without any conditions at all.”
    In “Sermons in Stones”, Osho adds, “He [Reich] belongs to us. I give him posthumous sannyas.”

    One will never know, but It seems reasonable to surmise that Osho would have preferred whispering in Reich’s ear, instead of that of Jayesh, had the former still be alive.

    Alas! Things being what they are. It’s no use crying over spilt milk. Suchness, Aes dhammo sanantano – in this very moment, every moment the eternal, inexhaustible law… ;-)

  32. Dilruba says:

    l mean my previous comment

  33. Anthony Thompson says:

    Personally i do not care much where the copyrights are, who publishes the books, and so on.

    What makes me sick is the lying. In the very same way that made me sick Christopher Calder article the first time i read it.
    I know my subject. As I have said before I have study osho and his movement thoroughly, and I know when facts are being twisted to accommodate personal or collective maneuvers.

    This are the facts:
    Osho was not against Copyright or trademark. Both were developed under his guidance. Osho meditation centers were never free: You needed to follow very specific guidance to be allowed to be called that, and that was the prerogative of the Global connection office in pune since the seventies.
    Meditation have always been free use for anyone who bought the cd or cassette.
    It is absolutely impossible that the people from Osho world discovered the trademark in 2000, because it has been continuously operation since the early eighties. And all those guys were around before then.

    On the other side, the people in pune say osho was against devotion or veneration towards him because they to go to what is recorded as being said by him. But everybody know that one thing is what he said and quite another what he did or allowed to happen around him.

    This is what I am sick about…

  34. shantam Prem says:

    So Anthony, do you believe that the court decision is not fair and just.
    The legal team based in New york has not done their home work properly, they must have given all the points and precedents to the court.
    During the ten years of trial, thousands of documents must have been written, don’t you think it is a right time to send these guys back to school who were thinking to be expert in international laws, banking laws and also in the matters of running a master’s shop.

    On the other side, the people in pune say osho was against devotion or veneration towards him..

    I have not seen a single time, Osho comes for public gathering and people are not bowing their head…Whether He was Bhagwan or Osho; it was always so and seemed very natural.
    As a matter of fact he was observing people and few times he has pointed when some intelligent guy used to feel uncomfortable with all this devotion towards a man who was not even 6 feet tall!
    And i wonder why He did not say a single time, Listen guys, your popo must be getting hurt while sitting on the floor. I have my chair, please install the chairs in Buddha Hall for you too.

    First of all, the people who run Poona must think where they want to fix “Their Osho”.
    Is Osho like Jesus or Buddha, Is Osho like Pope or Shankra charya or he is like Deepak Chopra or Andrew Cohan!
    This is a very fundamental question. They have gone trapped in the chess of their mind. Consumers are feeling uneasy, cook has forgotten whether to put salt or sugar in the Omelette, and also whether Omelette is made with eggs or with the chicken!

  35. Kranti says:

    Yes Anthony…while Pune wanted to have their own ideas about how Osho vision needs to unfold , OFI team simply took that conflict too far ..

    Personally Pune approach suits me by and large as i am not a devotional type.. But i need to respect everyone as different people have different ways of relaing with the master .. But the Head Vs Heart approach is an issue which can be sorted out using meditative communications.. If thats is not possible OFI & Team should have accepted that as current condition until time becomes ripe for things to change

    It is disgusting to spend 30 years with Osho and taking His issues to public so badly.. They let down Osho with that approach..

    Osho and His name suffered enough in the hands of Media and Court when He was in Body and they should have prevented these court battles at any cost as these battles have shown Osho in poor light infront of the world..again for no fault of Osho

    They can argue Pune took things to court..But that is for preventing people from misusing Osho name..the same way they did from 1980s as Anthony pointed out, not for ‘ My Piece of Cake ‘ reasons.

    As Shantam pointed out if Oshoworld associated themselves with Oshodhara by advertising them in Oshoworld megazine , i am not sure what their intentions are and why they were not able to see what Oshodhara was doing..

    If Oshoworld agree with Oshodhara kind things then their intentions to Free Osho itself is not right..If they dont agree with Oshodhara kind of things then they are contradictory in their efforts to Free Osho..Not sure whether there is something in the middle..kind of PO.

    I still shake when i am forced to talk against one side as i will never know where i am exceeding limits ..i a certain on onething…Taking Osho , our beloved Master to court is not Love for Master.. Whatever the reasons / excuses are..

  36. Kranti says:

    ” And i wonder why He did not say a single time, Listen guys, your popo must be getting hurt while sitting on the floor. I have my chair, please install the chairs in Buddha Hall for you too. ”

    I used to think about it.. Then realized there is nothing in it..It is just a matter of convenience so that all , whether prevlaged front row or not so previlaged back row can see HIm..

  37. Kranti says:

    Dilruba..You can write to editors if you are alright with that..

  38. Dilruba says:

    Okay Kranti .. lam a little .. new to this system om Sannyas news … l try to send it to the editor .. thanx Dear

  39. groucho marx says:

    The time for Authoritarian Religion is simply over,for Many.
    Those bearded fools in robes arguing about power and ownership and pretending it is about “God,”or in this case now,”Consciousness” are poviding an excellent demonstration or “Teaching” even,about the Psycho-sociial basis of Religious war,Crusades,Jihad etc.
    Thankyou,Jayesh,Amrito,Kirti and all,and of course Osho.
    You are opening the eyes of many Intelligent People,who were,till now,slumbering in a Left-over Dream.

    Gratitude.

  40. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam. You are right… while people were bowing down, osho was speaking against surrender( late eighties), that doubt was the greatest spiritual quality and that he did not want to be worshiped.

    The split is that Pune took the words, and osho world took the actual happenings… now how to decide who is right?

    Everyone decides according to what is right for himself. that is the truth and then hides behind Osho.

    Personally i like much more what happens in pune, but i m also disgusted by the lack of honesty. why not to say: we want things this way because WE think is the right way.

    The same with keerti´s gang. why not to say: we also want power. whay bring this stupid tale that Osho was all for freedom, when everybody knows that that did not included the practical side of the work and the people around him. It was always his way or the highway.

    It is childish to hide behind a dead guy who can not come and say his wish.
    Just put on the pans and take your own desitions! Osho´s dead he can not guide anyone anymore, beyond the individual personal fantasies.

  41. Kranti says:

    ” this stupid tale that Osho was all for freedom, when everybody knows that that did not included the practical side of the work ”

    Ofcourse that is right..I dont think Osho had any delusions about that.. The freedom is always inner..Outside He always insisted us to act out..

  42. Kranti says:

    groucho marx … Gratitude to whom?

  43. shantam Prem says:

    It is childish to hide behind a dead guy who can not come and say his wish.
    Just put on the pans and take your own desitions!

    Yes, it is childish to hide behind a dead guy.. Yes, for more than 5000 years in India and 2000 years in the west, our ancestors were living like childish…fighting the sickness and rough whether and deveoping the technology and bowing down before the dead guys..
    And in the end they left behind disillusioned generation who went to Pune to bow down before a bearded Indian and now after His death they want to play big…
    Courage is to walk without any sticks, why even to go to Pune… for what.. for swimming pool? A tiny village in Europe has better swimming pool, for coffee shop? For Pyramid..?
    A church just 200 meters away from my flat in one of the cities in Europe has much better aesthetic in their pyramid than the Pune One and such buildings are in very city. .one goes to Pune to see a video of a dead man.. ..does the aids test pays a handsome amount of money to get humiliated by the staff…

    wow ….what a courageous way…
    The drunckard man Kranti once mentioned and who has a big mouth , as per the hear say was rolling on the streets of London or New york and before police could find him and reveal his identity, he was whisked away to Pune. This gentleman when came to Pune after few months of exile in real world, was looking like a plant without water, i cannot forget his face…

    “The split is that Pune took the words, and osho world took the actual happenings… now how to decide who is right..”

    As a professor please read the above statement. Acts always speak better than the words..The weight of acutal happenings is uncomparable to the words. All the jurispodance is based on the real happenings.
    For sure, words will be powerful than the actions when all the people are blind.

    osho was speaking against surrender( late eighties), that doubt was the greatest spiritual quality and that he did not want to be worshiped.

    Yes, from the very beginning Osho was speaking against the worshiping. Who the bastard has ever worshiped Osho?

    To bow down as a sense of gratitude is million times far away from the worshiping aspect. I think people emposing their dictate does not know the difference between a call girl and a girl friend, wife or a mother.

    Osho is great in the sense by giving due respect to DOUBT, one of the most condemned word in the spiritual history finally got its due under Osho’s umbrella.
    And DOUBT he was underlining all the time specially when one deals with the priests born after master’s death.
    This is also one of the reason, people are looking at all the parties with a grain of skepticism.
    The seekers coming on Osho’s path must read, listen and see themselves rather than believing the versions of Amrito or jayesh, Neeam or Arun, Shantam Or Anthony..

  44. shantam Prem says:

    Keerti, in connection with Osho world’s approach towards Oshodhara, once this was pointed in 2003, i have not seen their ad anymore in that magazine. Once in a while at railway or corner bookstalls in India, i turn the pages of all the available Osho magazines.
    Still Keerti can explain better, specially in the context of Delhi scene, where one memebr of the family is going to Osho dhara, another is sponsering the pages of Osho world and the third member is on the way to Chaitanya Bharti(Gurudev to his people).

  45. shantam Prem says:

    Keerti and Kranti…spelling mistakes are normal..

  46. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam. i will answer your question in a personal way.
    I go to pune to meditate, with hundreds of other meditators, where a special milieu is created… and afterward i share with tons of beautiful friends who mostly behave in an honest non socialized way.
    A place where I meet hundreds of people from all over the world…and get to listen to osho in a meditative space every night.
    A place where i get to eat the best haaka noodles, with rice biriani, cashmiri pulao and the best garlic nans.
    A place like no other where I get to rest from being myself.

    I have been to many other places, and institutes… in pune something beautiful happens to me.

  47. Dilruba says:

    ‘ Who the bastard has worshipped Osho ? ‘ Beautiful … !!!!!!

  48. shantam Prem says:

    Anthony…you have described Poona in a beautiful way, if i have to tell someone why i adore Pune for the last 22 years, i can copy your words….many of the Poona regulars can endorse this,

    “I go to pune to meditate, with hundreds of other meditators, where a special milieu is created…”

    please, tell me is this milieu created by Jayesh, his team and His money…..
    This milieu is because of those thousands of known and unknown people who have put their heart soul and savings in this process, this milieu is there because Osho was there, His unique style of working was there.

    If people are still going because the name is still “The Rose Garden”, though in many parts of roses, they are trying to grow potatoes.

    It is my clear view that this unique atmosphere, this unique milieu should not have been interfered.
    Anthony think about those thousands too who used to come for years and for months at a stretch, now these people stay in Pune for a week and than two weeks in Goa…and many of them simply don’t come to Pune anymore.,,
    There not coming reduces the fragrance…

    At a certain time, there were around five six people in Koregaon Park doing storage business as many of the regulars were depositing their trunks for six to eight months period.

    And now not a single one is doing this business. Care taker of my flat is still using the bed sheets stored in these trunks, purchased at the throw away prices..Till 2000, 95% of the occupants in my flat were ashram visiters, now the revenue generated fron them is hardly 15%. Same one can say about Prems Restaurant. I am sure hundred thousands of sannyasins have taken their meals and beer there. How many gossips between the sannyasins, how many dates….
    Prems is still doing the brisk business but the new occupants are not sannyasins but young Indian IT people. many of the small town Indian girls have tasted their first Marlboro and first beer in an open enviornment.

    I have been to many other places, and institutes… in pune something beautiful happens to me.

    In other places, people are doing worship,,in Pune the people were bowing out of gratitude for the man who dared to create a magnificant oasis…
    People who want to enjoy this wonderful, one of its kind milieu of an enlightened one, yet are feeling ashamed to bow down a bit..what to say….
    and all this is happening when the guy has already died!!

  49. shantam Prem says:

    And Anthony the fact is that take the iron fist away in North Korea for a day, and people will turn this experience into South Korea. Constitutional or unconstitutional; who cares!

    Same way take the iron fist away for a day in Pune and you will see Buddha Hall is enacted again in is old glory, legal or illegal…who cares!
    It has nothing to do with my personal wishful thinking….it is because of the collective sannyas mind and heart…few people,who cannot live without their whiskey and smoke, think majority of these are living in retro!

    These majority of people are the bricks and cement in the foundation of Poona experience…..Where ever these people are living…i touch their feet.. these are the people, who made Osho proud on His people….

  50. Alok john says:

    Shantam prem wrote : “Anthony think about those thousands too who used to come for years and for months at a stretch, now these people stay in Pune for a week and than two weeks in Goa…”

    Who knows? Things change, people get old, different people come with different needs, who knows?

  51. Anthony Thompson says:

    Shantam. people started to come for less time, way before the changes even begun to happen.
    1995 full time workers took turns to do the dish washing…1996 people refused to do it so often because there were less full timer workers. so they had to hire” indian workers” to do i. we are talking 95-96.
    so it has nothing to do with changes. it has to do with the people. When osho was alive people stayed as much as they could. actually they would go to europe to work and come back. Now that is simply absurd…specially if you love your lungs. To stay in pune more than two months in a row is a crime to your health. specially after they re-did north main road into a high way.
    Of I go there i have to go to goa every so often… my health will not take more…

  52. shantam Prem says:

    I think if we can diagnose a situation with clinical precision, without bringing personal likes and dislikes than we are able to find more than one reason for the deteriorating situation.
    Those who think everything is going tip top in the world of Osho, for sure they can enjoy their experience; i feel arteries leading to the heart are shrinking and can be a cause of massive future heart attack, i am clear about my diagnose.

    This also i understand that in the longer run life is just a joke, a leela of existence, every death leads to a new opening…when so many opposing forces come together, the vibrations created out of this are also beautiful, as great stars are born out of chaos!

    Shantam. people started to come for less time, way before the changes even begun to happen.

    “Who knows? Things change, people get old, different people come with different needs, who knows?..”

    from 1987 till 2002, i have spend in average around 6 months per year in Pune. And the excuse i gave to my parents, relatives, friends, my small children and their mothers was, people also go for paid or charitable work in different places, My work is in Pune. Few people exhaust their energy to develop new models for cars or new medicines, with Osho we are busy to work on the concept of a new man, a better man.
    I can see the disbelief written on their faces. Most of them were of the opinion ashram will not survive once the Charismatic Guru is dead. Somehow Osho was provoking so much the stability of our belief system that many many people were thinking, how long more..sooner or later this man will die and nuisance will stop.
    Few were even mentioning with good intentions ,” your Osho must choose a successor. Without the head figure, disciples will kill each other.”
    WhO says, people who are not sannyasins are blind or under developed.
    World is full with amazing beings.
    For sure i was quoting Osho and trusting our intelligence, ” don’t worry, Osho is preparing all of us to be His successor. If Buddha’s, Jesus’s work can go for centuries ,it can be for Osho too.”
    While taking tours in the ashram and sometime the social dignitaries, i appreciated when the people were smiling with the PR lines,” No Sir, we don’t have any head. We are not a organisation but an organism. Yes..most of us are professionals but come here for few months for our meditation and work experience, kind of stuff.”

    We don’t have any head, we are all equal and share rotating work, was the PR at the best but as a man commited to the search of truth, you see head is everywhere. even when head is not living in Pune, his hairs are spread all over the place.
    During 2003, i have wrttien two pieces in sannyasworld.com about Oshodhara and Neelam/Keerti. I was asking me,” Shantam, Do you have the guts to write with same vigour and sarcaism your observations about the ashram people or are you afraid from getting banned. Just be honest with yourself.” Off the record i have mentioned to many of my friends that i wait for the day when i come out of the roof just under the open sky, scary it may feel but one sees the stars.

    Ex. inner circle member Satya Vedant, one of the most articulate sannyasins, a professor in American universities, who showed the red slip to Neelam and later was kicked out, for no excuse; but a highly objectionable excuse as at some point he tried to suggest something to the HEAD. He may feel pissed but i quote Him,” Swami ji, not even a chair is allowed to move from here to there without the prior permission of ——-, as one says, there is a darkness under the lamp. something like this is happening here”
    During my hooked period with ashram, i have followed every single rule not to annoy the bosses on the hot seat for example as an astrologer i could have given the ads. in the newspapers and establish my practice, but as astrology is not renting the flats, i was afraid that this work can collide with ashram’s business interest and my entry will be banned under the excuse, ” I come to ashram to allure people for private sessions.”

    So when i am writting here, it is not just a sannyasin, a disciple( Arabic word for this is Taliban), but a lawyer and investigative journalist rolled in One.
    The way Anthony has mentioned about DOUBT, i have read these discourses given in late sixties and early seventies. I was bombed in my brain and religiously believe, if a socio-spiritual organisation wants to survive, it should check the garbage inside first before sending the press releases to presidents and prime Ministers and UNO and NATO, about doing this and that for the betterment of the world.
    Thanks God, neither the resort nor Osho world is sending such press releases any more. Life has shown them their heights, the people who were selling the torches are finding their path through the fire from their Cigarettes.

    DISILLUSIONMENT with the working model is one of the biggest cause of shrinking visitors at Pune, congested traffic and pollution plays a secondary role.
    Once the head realises that with the age he is getting bald and does not try to hide this with Michal Jackson kind of wigs, Poona can again get the new spring, ” Millions of people are on the way. Aalways go on making space for my new people.” Was it not Osho, who i have heard saying something like this! ( for sure people will stay for shorter period but they will be the ones, who have heard the calling, come come yet come again) ¨

    Love you Osho and your people

    Shantam

    tears..while writing…..

  53. Dilruba says:

    Somehow to imagine that the good old days to have come back is absurd … whether it is for health factors or any other factor .. and even if by chance there will again be more sanyassins / seekers in the ashram .. all the factors regarding health or any other will dissappear …. not because the air would be less polluted but because there will be more Welcome energy in the air ..

    l am 42years old and feel …Earlier l would also like sanyassins / friends .. sharing my residence but now l feel more to be with myself than share my physical space with anybody .. but when l open myself to anybody lam aware not exceed my limits to avoid any disturbance in my aloneness …
    and l know if l become open / more accomadating then l will again invite my friends / fellow travellers .. but now lam clear thats not what l want .. every moment is so precious
    that one cannot afford to loose ..
    l feel most of the fellow travellers l know are in this space .. now … And our fellow travellers in the management / sanyassins having their own centres are also part of this … but lam sure they too feel the same .. because they too came to ‘ Him’ for the same reason l did ..
    Now coming back to the Trademark & Copyright issue … l feel all the persons concerned with the legalities of the matter must meet through any posssible medium to resolve this atleast among ourselves
    As individuals on the path we stay away from all legal hassles .. so atleast lets resolve this among ourselves
    and have more time to be with ourselves rather than in the courts
    this is a sincere appeal to All Fellow travellers ..

  54. kranti says:

    Its pouring posts…Its pouring requests after requests…Thread after threads…

    Not sure who is listening..

    I have worked in big corporates for 15 years now and if i can describe one core quality of that system it will be ‘ INSENSITIVITY towards the Individial Voice ‘…Short Sighted Goals , Next Bonus & Survival at any cost makes people absolutely Insensitive…

    That one aspect INSENSITIVITY should not be there in a Buddhafield.. People should listen to this heartbeats of Sannyasins.. this may be handful of people and may not be the right respresentaion of sannyas community..But..

    Dilruba called me at 1.30am when i was about to drift into sleep.. It was such a plesant surprise to hear a fellow sannyasin’s voice over phone in the middle of the night..that too first time.. Out of nowhere i heard the voice of Osho heartbeat … I could feel her heartbeat and anxiouness in wanting to communicate something to everyone through a new thread…

    This small voice should be enought to stir something in the hearts of People concerned.. If they all read this and keep ignoring then …It is just NOT right & It is just not Osho way..

  55. shantam Prem says:

    People at resort are connected non stop with the internet. 900 to 1300 and 14.00 till 1600 hours are the working time. Writing mails, chating with friends is a part of everyday working shedule.

    People concerned don’t click on the most happening sannyas site, i cannot imagine. I have not heard that they have imposed the blanket ban on sannyasnews.com the way Indian govt. has done with our dear, http://www.savitabhabi.com

    so let us see, hammers break or the rocks!

  56. shantam Prem says:

    PS- one can judge the moods of a fellow sannyasin from the following paragraph of Garimo’s post.. It is human, it is natural, it happens-
    Shantam Premlove,
    Although it scares me a bit to expose the personal things about myself and my activities in public online forums, I’ll think about how I can carefully answer your questions and preserve my need to protect myself and feel safe at the the same time….

    Such thoughts were passing my brain too. When you address a cause on a public platform, that too not as a beggar but with stronger moral strength, you push the buttons of many.

    I hope, my fellow travelers on the higher position will not create a torture mechanism to silence the voices, as human life is very precious, yet many times its worth is not more than few thousand dollars any where in the world.

    Not a single shot has been fired in the whole Osho movement and i hope it remains so for eternity. Dialogue, communication, diplomacy should be on the table not the guns, law suits, bribery etc.
    But unfortunately some one goes to the lowest level, it is not enough just to open a facebook group, proprietors of such acts need to be punished as per the laws of the land and universe, who knows that brings us closer to a new era of eyes opening!

  57. Anthony Thompson says:

    Shantam. the biggest reason why people started to come for less time is that osho is not there. simple. If you add traffic, pollution and high( for indian standards) entry price, they will come mostly for the cool season.

    they could endure the monsoon and the hot season because the the big shot was there… now there is no reason.
    Most people have no idea, and do not care about the management. they come for s service.. that is the truth.

    You advocate to keep things as Osho left them. that is absurd. Osho is dead. that is a BIG chance in the scene. you can´t keep things as they were in 95, they look and feel absurd. the chair every night, metal detector and sniffing at the entrance. the fence around lao tzu house… even the Buddha hall… a meditation hall where no loud music or loud cathartic meditations can be made because of the neighbors. that place was doomed unless they built a solid structure around , sound proof… and they did not get permission, even through bribing, to do that. they had to build another place somewhere else.
    so you see new people will make new decisions… is inevitable.

  58. kranti says:

    ” so you see new people will make new decisions… is inevitable.”

    I agree with Anthony.. Changes were inevitable..

    But i would like to know what exactly Shantam wants to be put back again..What specific changes he wants

  59. Dilruba says:

    l was resisting going to the new meditation hall … for nearly 5 years .. last year when l went l dropped all my inhibitions and went for Dynamic , Kundalini , White robe … did enjoy … but sorry this place is not sound proof … as l was sitting behind close to the entrance / exit … l have heard the kitchen staff chatting in the stairway down … also sounds of pots & pans .. l feel the sound proof effect is for the people outside the hall more than for inside the hall … now to tell you the truth l jus enjoy my meditation with all the disturbances … the truth is anyplace with / without an ambiance / service will survive if there are serious / playful meditators who are participating in it .. and l would like to believe that this place is still there only because of these
    serious / playful meditators …

  60. Anthony Thompson says:

    you can go tell the neighbors in their mansions of koregaon park.
    they were the ones who opposed and filed civil cases against the ashram.
    do you remember silent dynamic?

  61. kranti says:

    I dont think the trouble is worth inviting by having Dynamic meditation in open Buddha Grove.. When Osho was there things were different.. the strength flowing from Osho could have moved mountains..not now..

  62. Dilruba says:

    Yes l do remember … all have advantages / disadvantages …
    there was a freshness in the Buddha hall inspite of silent
    dynamic and now one is in a closed room breathing each ones carbon dioxide … but the neighbours are living in silence … yes now l do understand the neighbours plight & everyones … including mine … Truth is ..
    Change is the only Consant
    So Chareveti … Chareveti ….

  63. shantam Prem says:

    Thanks Kranti for reminding, What kind of changes, Shantam wants to have.
    This was cooking in my brain for long time, may be with this little push words can take the shape.
    When you diagnose, you must have the remedy too and that remedy which is easily available.
    On the other side, i can say, As a sannyasin. on a spiritual level i can be bisexual, can swing in both ways…so it also won’t difficult to play the mediator for both sides…
    So let me see, whether today or inthe coming days, life brings out the applicable solutions…

  64. shantam Prem says:

    Anthony, i am utterly thankful to you. Without you, there won’t be counter logic. Here we all are playing the psycho theater on behalf of the real players.
    If on the drawing board one can create the architectural plan, it is not difficult than to create a real masterpiece.

    It is a misconception that i want everything as it was during Osho’s life time. I am not that psycho, who wants to keep the dead body of a beloved for ever or like the woman who goes SATI with her husband. Neither i am representing that school of thoughts, who want to impose Sharia laws in England.
    Ordinary sannaysins like me are flowing with life’s unknown flow more than those, who are shooting their dictate, hiding themselves behind Osho’s selective quotations. My first suggestion will be that these people come on the level of humility, humbleness and a open smile. They must accpet that when master(king) is not their, they cannot take his place and therefore oppostion to their ideas is a natural consequences. Opponents are needed to make the arch complete…You just cannot turn the rainbow into black and white.
    It is like this poem in Urdu– Neither you are an angle, nor i am one, so let us talk, the way humans do!

  65. shantam Prem says:

    What a compassion for neighbours, poor neighbours were bearing the Dynamic assault for years….So it is a natural development that people do the dynamic in Osho auditorium.. Perfect!
    What was the need to take the roof away….?

    OH yes…it was illgeal and we the law abiding people from around the world must respect the laws of the land……
    When i tell this logic in German bakery, 9 out of 10 will say, ” My Foot”

    Ok. We take the roof also away, illegal activities are obstacle onthe journey to truth.
    But the Pandora and the Porch arch over Osho’s podium was not illegal; who were the drunkard Talibans to destroy that historical Podium.. From where these people got that authority…was it sanctioned and approved in the white robe gathering.

    Yes..these people had a good intention. “They” don’t want “us” to get attached with the dead things….

    That father Fritz in Austria has also good intention to enslave his daughter for 24 years, because he was afraid, his sweet girl of 15 will get hooked with drugs in the real bad world….

  66. Anthony Thompson says:

    Honestly… from the outside. I can´t understand what is the big deal about the podium. because osho sat on it? is that It?
    As an outsider it sounds absurd. This is not a statue of thousands of years and part of heritage of a a culture. it was made in 87-88. The wooden gate is older. Comes from the seventies.
    Why not the fountain that was in front of the welcome center?… it was there even before the people got there.
    Why not the old building that was where now is the gust house. that was a historic monument… but I have never heard anyone complaining.

    So it must be because osho spoke from it.. aha! Got you… it is object idolatry. It is holly, because the master sat on it.
    A souvenire for religious feeling.
    Now, honestly is that osho´s message? MmH?

  67. Dilruba says:

    When the tent of Buddha hall was removed … and everyone was walking with their shoes in Buddha Hall .. l cried .. l could not bear to see this … but slowly l got over it … and danced with my shoes .. without having any memory of the past … there are many sanyassins who went through this pain .. and l know many who still dont wear shoes inside it .. and l respect them for what they feel … l know of a Poona 1 sanyassin who walked bare foot to the Ashram … l respect their sentiment .. and feel every single person is free / unique .. to express what he / she feels ..

  68. Dhanyam says:

    Due to the wide variety of views, insights, and intelligence in this forum, I am becoming addicted to reading the posts.

    So I am wondering if any of you know the strategy of where the Resort is going. All I see are increasing sales and leasing the Resort. Is that all there is?

    In regards to reconciliation, how about the Inner Circle un-banning the Delhi people and inviting them to arrange a peace deal so we can all make Osho available through our combined energies.

    As to copyrights and keeping Osho pure, aren’t many people and websites putting out original Osho discourses, books, and videos on the Internet? So if people can see, hear, and read original Osho on the Internet, then it seems that copyrights are not such a big deal.

  69. Anthony Thompson says:

    shamtam… come on. answer my question!

  70. shantam Prem says:

    The other day i have seen the photos of a Buddhist temple in Sri Lanka, where one tooth of Buddha is preserved.
    War or peace, this little tooth, who even cares whether it matches wih the DNA of Gautam Buddha…has INSPIRED people for centuries.

    During His last visit to Egypt, Pope Benedict visited a spot, where Jesus was suppose to be Initiated.

    Buddha Hall podium has got more significance than all of this. If it is just like any other structure, If Osho is just like anybody, a name in the voter list..GREAT..enjoy your senses.
    It is said, when Rom was burning, Nero was playing flute.. The fact is there were some audience too.
    Most of the sannyasins have swallowed with pain the arbitrary changes made by few people. These people have the right to do this after all the world knows, Master’s vulnerability towards this team of two or three.
    If these people think that they can impose their decisions and everybody will clap. Bravo Bravo…. they are living in fool’s paradise.
    These few people have simply disrespected the common sense and intelligence and self respect of their fellow travelers. Now there are no fellow travelers, only the consumers, customers, who pay the girl hundred dollars, have half an hour of fun and they go home to boast, “yes.. We have experienced LOVE”

    Yes people can still get truth, get wisdom even if 17, Koregaon Park disappears into Vaswani Hospital.
    If All of Osho books are taken away from the book shelves, do you think shops will get closed, delete all the Osho videos from the world and you think it will effect the traffic at You tube..Life always moves. People can still laugh and get married even when half the village has gone dead in genocide!
    And again i say it Anthony, You know the psychology…take just single hand full people away from the scene, and you will see, the remaining insiders will call the carpenters and Buddha Hall podium will have the Pandora, it will be a symbolic gesture of a long term value. And you will see, how people are coming to His Garden, new and seasoned, rich and poor in spite of pollution and Swine Flu!

  71. shantam Prem says:

    Dhanyam,
    When the whole world, even small children know how to down load material on Internet and they are enjoying the new era, few managers in the recording companies are feeling pissed…

    The points which you have raised are in the mind and heart of many…
    As we all know, a country prospers and lives in a peaceful period when the people in authority understand the hopes. expectations and inspirations of fellow citizens…..
    Between Bush and Obama is just a difference of skin color??

    Look at Iran, the govt. of a fanatic is installed. People will still go for their work, they will watch television, will visit friends and relatives and the Spoons (CHAMCHAS in Hindi) of the president will think,” Look how happy and contented our country is.!”

  72. shantam Prem says:

    Now, honestly is that osho´s message? MmH?

    Who will decide, what is Osho’s message….

    Are people living in the nursing homes, where the staff will decide what kind of Osho’s message should be fed in their pipes.

    Anthony, can you answer a single queston honestly, How many cents worth of emotions you have invested around Osho and 17, Koregaon Park.?

  73. shantam Prem says:

    Simple question will be asked again and again to the personaliltes running the Osho show.,,,
    Osho is a Master of our time or he is a motivational speaker?

    What is a Master?

    A Master is a rare kind of MANGO grown in the wineyards of North America!

  74. Dilruba says:

    Anthony .. during the silent dynamic days … during the monthly camp there was no restrictions … wanted to share

    Again l remind myself Chareveti .. Chareveti …

  75. kranti says:

    Dhanyam You say..

    ” As to copyrights and keeping Osho pure, aren’t many people and websites putting out original Osho discourses, books, and videos on the Internet? So if people can see, hear, and read original Osho on the Internet, then it seems that copyrights are not such a big deal ”

    Sure Dhanyam.. It is not a big deal.. Life will take us where it wants to.. But i also want to know from you t if the trademarks / copyrights to keep Osho pure is in place IS IT A BIG DEAL?

    I have posed this question so many times and no one is replying ….what harm is done if we keep the trademarks / copyrights .. Who and What benefit we intend to derive by freeing trademarks / copyrights ?

    Please let me know.. I am asking this question with genuine interest to understand..

  76. shantam Prem says:

    Kranti,
    The way i understand, issues are sometime emotional rather legal.

    Once the trust in the family gets broken after the father’s death, everybody wants to protect their interests. Brothers become enemies , they listen more to their wives and children than to the mother..
    Once Osho Foundation Zürich entered from nowhere in the picture, it was clear that people will see some foul play. Four five people closed to Jayesh, when they want everythign under their control without keeping in mind that other players are also there, conflict and court cases were bound to happen. The crushing defeat of an undemocratic and un cooperative attitude again makes it clear that how so ever strong and mighty you may be, if you have no wide human base around you, you are bound to fall.

    The way was very simple. circumtances or the divine will has choosen Poona as a Osho head quarters. These copy rights etc. were supposed to preserve here and in a way that people may come and go, institution continues. Human beings are than only the custodians of an idea.
    People can blame USA for its world power, people can joke about Cristianity about its one man one book product, but the way they are managing their institutions is a remarkable learning experience.

    In the present age of cutting edge communication technology, best way is to flood the market with His discourses, it is not going to be a lucrative business, but the impact on us as a collective being will be immense.
    Sorry, dear high profile legal giants and experts in International banking and publishing rights..fairness of the laws and technology has changed the game. May be why not you all come to Pune and do a good Mystic Rose as a bonus of your work.

  77. Dilruba says:

    Kranti … what l understand life is not about benefits / losses … it is going beyond … this l have unlearnt / learnt through Osho … l feel through this trademark & copyright episode … it is a step towards the beyond … in the sense … all the effort taken to Preserve / Free Osho is an indication …

  78. kranti says:

    Dilruba / Shantam

    I understand & respect your view points. I have thought on similar lines .

    When Osho had such horrible time He was forced to take legal help..It is good to discuss IDEAL scenarios..But the world where we are operating is different..

    To me having trademarks / copyrights for keeping Osho pure is just a TECHNICAL TOOL and not a emotional aspect. osho had number of rules in the Ashram knwoing well those are required to keep people in check..

    To me it is going beyond individual preferences and what we think is Ideal and taking legal help to keep the works of Osho pure..

    Sometime back i posted a related quote of J Krishnamoorthy from his website. For someone who was dead againt organizations he clearly laid out rules for running the JK foundation to protect the integrity of his teachings..

    I dont have any knolwedge of disiples of any other modern day master fighting to free the teachings from Trademark / copyrights..

  79. Dilruba says:

    We cannot compare anyone to anyone … and Osho is a Master … who is always encouraging to live / experiance everything possible … we all know that … that is why we all have been able to know … more through living / experiancing and not only by jus listening to his words / silence …

    comparing will lead one towards confusion …

  80. Neo Vivek says:

    My way- The way of the white clouds – Osho
    … let things flow.. flow is life
    highhandedness is death

  81. Alok john says:

    Kranti wrote :
    Dhanyam You say..

    ” As to copyrights and keeping Osho pure, aren’t many people and websites putting out original Osho discourses, books, and videos on the Internet? So if people can see, hear, and read original Osho on the Internet, then it seems that copyrights are not such a big deal ”

    Alok says …. As far as I know there is little video on the web, not much audio either apart from that at oshoworld. There are lots of books on the web. But is getting stuff off the web the best way to attract newcomers to Osho?

    Sure Dhanyam.. It is not a big deal.. Life will take us where it wants to.. But i also want to know from you t if the trademarks / copyrights to keep Osho pure is in place IS IT A BIG DEAL?

    I have posed this question so many times and no one is replying ….what harm is done if we keep the trademarks / copyrights .. Who and What benefit we intend to derive by freeing trademarks / copyrights ?

    Please let me know.. I am asking this question with genuine interest to understand..

    Alok says …. it is just silly people whose brains stop working at the sound of the word “freedom.”

  82. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam. how much emotion i have invested? a lot… 23 years to be exact.
    But My understanding… or what i learned from osho has to do with consciousness…not with object idolatry.

    One of the things that i had more problems with was trying to convince my fellow colleagues was that osho was not trying to create a bunch of cultist fanatics. But the behaviors of many sannyasins contradicted my claims over and over.
    Now the story with the podium proves them right. consciousness is second, adoration of the figure comes first.
    This in my understanding was not what osho wanted for us who sat and listen to him.

    20 years after his death mourning over a stone and plaster Pagoda ( not pandora dear).
    keepeing the” temple” mentality, creating objects of emotional adoration around the dead master. the same shit everybody did around the other ones.

    yes, I think Osho tried his best to free us from that garbage…but who is listening ah?

    People prefer the rabbit foot… than the courage to let go and face life without outer symbols… just consciousness.

    With emotion and sadness I see that the people who loved Osho the most…destroy his legacy… and I am not talking about the pagoda… i am talking about your attitude shantam that propagates idolatry and emotional veneration of objects, instead of what I understood was osho´s wish for us; free individuals… not cultists.

  83. Neo Vivek says:

    Anthony
    Free individuals are also free to express and share their love with the marble from where their master created his vision and buddha field!

    By condemning, you are falling into the same trap as the worshipers fell into..

  84. shantam Prem says:

    Without doubt, Anthony, You have replied beautifully….
    As nicely as you can express, it is still the one side of the coin….
    We must take into consideration many facts, many actions, spoken and circumstantial proofs to validate our convictions…
    How so ever far sighted, intelligent and far out may seems the decisions of Jayesh and co., how many percent of sannyasin will appreciate them, the sannyasins who were the backbone of this milieu, you expressed in your last mail….
    when i say it that this stone and plaster Pagoda, will be constructed again, i am saying it, the way human emotions work…
    and i am accepting this without any condemnation, If i condemn their action it is because it was beyond their mandate, they have crossed their limits…there was no public approval behind, it was like an Iraq war imposed upon our chest.
    You think when i was making my usual walks around roofless, pagoda less, Buddha Hall, i was crying tears of bitterness, not at all.

    Now tell me how many varieties of apples and mangos are there, how many types of dogs and cats are there and how many kind of human beings exist?
    Won’t you appreciate the fact that Osho tried to accommodate as many arche types as possible, not just theoretically but actions wise too, His teachings are much more broader than any of the people we know till now..

    Secondly, You can go to ANY OSHO CENTRE any where in the WORLD, whether there are 10 people in the evening meeting or hundred, Most of the people do Namaste and bow down like the way it was in His life time…And most of the time the images are not on the big screen but just a Television…

    I think your favourite management team will fry these low intelligent people in the hell and then they will munch them with their Whiskey!!

    As far as i know, Osho Uta in Cologne, Germany has Once in a month Kirtan in their calander… I have not seen a single Sikh dancing their like opium addict but nice, smart and sexy German Sannyasins.

    Milarepa’s concerts, Deva Primal and Miten, and other mantra singers are warm heartily supported by the western sannyas scene. If they have gne popular in the main stream new age scene, it is because of their connection with Osho.

    The main clientele of Osho are ex. Christians,,if they can show the middle finger to their tradition when it is not moving as per the time, same people are showing the same finger to the management team…Most of the people don’t come to Pune out of defiance…out of their self respect, and they have seen the infringement of basic human rights of those sannyasins, who dared to oppose the boss.
    Such people are the salt of Osho movement. because they don’t like to be fed by the priests, the sure shot way to Truth.

    And as a teacher of Psychology, you must be aware also about EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE. Next time when you are in Pune just ask any new person, who does not know the history of people there. In which “Chakra; sex, heart, crown etc” this new person sees, all the present top guns…note down the impression…it will be an interesting study.
    Still i will say, these people and their contribution is needed…same way others are also needed..Different spices make life Scharf. different colors make life rainbow. Don’t allow Osho’s vision to be tunred into dark, dry and clean as a hospital in zürich!
    Osho is not a farmer who sells only the milk and the meat.. In spiritual world, Osho is Wall MART!!

  85. shantam Prem says:

    Anthony….
    “A place where i get to eat the best haaka noodles, with rice biriani, cashmiri pulao and the best garlic nans.”

    Where you eat such delicious food, in Meera Kitchen or Pool side Zorba!

  86. kranti says:

    Dilruba ..I am not comparing masters here. But Trademark is Trademark.. there is no Osho Trademark or JK Trademark… the use of the tool is the same .. We can make use of that when it is available..

    Alok says …. ” it is just silly people whose brains stop working at the sound of the word “freedom.”

    When you use words like ‘ Free Osho ‘ , ‘ A master can not be trademarked ‘ etc., lot of people seems to get excited and join in for support.. But we need to make use of the technology available.. If we can use internet why not Trademark.. Sometime back i posted messages on how Osho tapoban used legal help for getting back URLs..

    I agree with Anthony..

    Although it is painful for people to see a physical structure which has been so much associated with the master getting demolished or removed.

    I had not been with Osho.. But i can fully understand the pain of Dilruba & Shantam . even i feel a pain when i see the green marble and think that it was a place where once a Buddha stood and spoke…not too long ago.. It is all good..but physical structures are meant to change..with passage of time..

    On the other hand they could have left key parts of the structure just to enable older genqartion people to relate to the Master.. But i can not say the same for any other structure except Buddha Hall..

    May be the new generation of Osho lovers will not feel any such pain..as they have not projected their love for master in such ways..

  87. Dilruba says:

    Kranti … thats exactly what lam pointing at that this { trademark & copyright episode } was a Live Experiment to go beyond …

  88. kranti says:

    ” In spiritual world, Osho is Wall MART!! ‘

    It was an awesome post Shantam..

  89. kranti says:

    Dilruba.. Today my intelligence is not in working condition.. got stabbed at the back too much in office..

    Can you tell me what you mean?

  90. kranti says:

    I love the way Shantam pours himself into the posts.. He doesnt hold back anything…

  91. Dilruba says:

    OK Kranti doing some spoon feeding for you … Jayesh & his team / Atul & his team are not Super humans … they did this with the Best of interests in mind for Osho’s Work to spread … but what we see is Utter Chaos … the only solution is both /all the teams who are doing Osho’s Work of sharing his Wisdom … through his books ,cassettes etc can come meet & try n come out with a way out … there is no harm in trying this as an experiment … at the most they will disagree .. but there is a possibility of a break through …
    and take Shantam’s suggestion to do Mystic Rose .. seriously / playfully !

  92. Kranti says:

    “at the most they will disagree .. but there is a possibility of a break through ”

    Thats what we would like to see..Sure

    I do need a meditation which is a combination of all the meditations as last few days have been very very bad in office..At the receiving end of exteremly unconcious behaviour of people around me at all levels….Bloody mess..

  93. Anthony Thompson says:

    My dear shantam. the food i described I get in India. anywhere… that is the beauty. any restaurant has that incredible mixture of scezuan Chinese and Indian food.
    they do not have this in the resort.

  94. shantam Prem says:

    Anthony, i Was teasing about the food.

    I know the stale taste and arrogant price of the resort food…
    Next time fetch few Chapattis from Meera, go the German bakery road and give them to the beggers, and see their reaction! ( i am not joking, it is not sarcastic. just a study of human psychology)

  95. Anthony Thompson says:

    well, I usually bring candy for the beggar´s kids… or buy them some oranges… I never give them money.
    The food in the resort is not that bad … if you are in a diet.
    I do not like zorba …too chic for me.
    i am not the resort type…

  96. shantam Prem says:

    Do someone knows, where is Thiruvananthapuram?
    It is a capital of Kerala, once this city was easy to pronounce, Trivandrum.
    Madras was easier than Chennai, same way Bombay is much more edgy than Mumbai. still Mumbai is the present and the future.
    Same way, Saint Petersburg in Russia was known as Petrograd from 1914 to 1924, and then as Leningrad during most of the Communist period from 1924 to 1991. Once the communist era came to end, people went back to the old name. It does not mean they restored also the old means of transportation, horse carts etc.
    Why these names got changed to their original yet primitive forms?
    Human beings don’t like that someone interferes in their heritage. Whenever something like this happens, it brews resentment and than one day when the time changes…people go back to original.
    Present is beautiful when the roots in the past and vision of future embraces in harmony.

    Osho Resort International is one such name of our time. Intentions of the people is not wrong but it does not ring bells on the emotional level. This name has no mention in Osho’s literature, the source of reference for the new people on the path.

    same way-
    “They could could have left key parts of the structure just to enable older and another generation of people to relate to the Master.. But i can not say the same for any other structure except Buddha Hall..”

    It is just Buddha hall. Blind devotion will say let us buy those rooms in universities and rented accommodations in Jabalpur and Sagar, where Osho was studying or teaching etc.

    Buddha Hall is symbolic, where Master danced with His people, where thousands of people listened to the call, wake up…you are lion not the sheep!

  97. Anthony Thompson says:

    well… we can only hope that the disciples of a master who taught us TO DIE TO THE PAST EVERY MOMENT and to be here-now will behave differently, even emotionally than the people of the cities you mention.

    we can only hope that some day it is understood that what osho was doing was going against any tradition even his own.

    We can only hope that it is understood that the way is in….

    If not we will have an osho church, creed or religious tradition that will join the rank with all the other people who think that spirituality has to do with “feeling” emotionally attached to symbols.

  98. Dhanyam says:

    Dear Kranti and Alok,

    In reply to your question, I am not a lawyer, but I understand that the word “Osho” was in common use before 1989 when Osho changed his name, especially in Japan and Nigeria. Recently a Google search came up with Lucky Osho, who is a lawyer in North Carolina.

    Many people feel that the purity of Osho would be protected of OIF owned the copyrights, but the books that are now being published by OIF and their publishers are edited books. Will OIF allow original, unedited Osho to be available on the Internet for all to read or will they only allow their edited version of Osho to be available?

  99. shantam Prem says:

    Basically Anthony, you are happy the way things are moving….
    May be those who want to protect the old Osho from cultist feeling, they can bring one more change, which is very vital, will give better customer response in North America.
    I think it is a right time in 21 century, to shave Osho’s beard. Man still looks like dead Rajneesh and alive Shailandra..

    With a little bit of photo shop editing, beard can be taken away…He will look like one of their own, Business executives than can be easily allured into the groups and seminars, because now the man looks like them, chic and clean. Beard is always cultist…

    PS- Please Pass this to Sadhna and Zareen in the ashram sorry resort, they can tell Jayesh and Amrito, as it is their own idea. Prince Philip and Prince Charles will be very happy.

  100. Kranti says:

    Shantam.. I felt relived when you said all you want to see is Buddha hall..Nothing else..

    As far as these name changes for Madras , Bombay is concerned it is purely political.. The mass never wanted such things..

    One politician started it and other followed just to show to people they give importance to Heritage.. The Govt which chnaged the name of Madras also damaged the place Swami Vivekananda meditated ..they erected a huge statute of one poet to undermine the significance of that historical place.. So let us get deceived that ll these names changes are done by and for the masses with good intentions..

    Ultimately people want good living safety and security..thats it..

  101. Kranti says:

    Correction ” So let us NOT get deceived that ll these names changes are done by and for the masses with good intentions..”

  102. Kranti says:

    ” Buddha Hall is symbolic, where Master danced with His people, where thousands of people listened to the call, wake up ”

    I agree with you on this.. as it will continue to act as a Reminder to wake up and dance..

  103. Kranti says:

    Dhanyam

    You say ” but the books that are now being published by OIF and their publishers are edited books. Will OIF allow original, unedited Osho to be available on the Internet ”

    Thats exactly we have been discussing.. If OIF edits books then sannyasins can take up that issue and resolve .. But freeing trademark is not the solution to it..earlier only OIF was editing ..But now everyone can edit… atleast when OIF edited the intentions were not wrong..it is something to do with the way they wanted to project Osho.. But when others start editing it will be a different ball game altogether..

    Soon we will have Neo-Osho movement..

  104. shantam Prem says:

    Kranti dear,
    In the buildings and space, Just Buddha Hall is the issue and that too because of the high headiness of the mighty ones. They have created a wrong precedent, it means any one who becomes the chief of the staff can turn the troops according to his will.

    Enough masters of the past have become the puppets of their high priests. Just two words Jihad and Fatwa have taken many forms in 15 centuries,,,every ambitious preacher has given their version for their kind of massacre. Unfortunately during the Prophet’s time there were no photo cameras, voice recorders and videos.
    Osho has got all these advantages and still just 10 years after his death, people are imposing their Oxford version.
    Five celebrations started by Osho are deleted, because in their version of Osho, every fucking day of the year is a celebration. Than why new year is celebrated with disco and Champagne where 60 plus teenagers can celebrate their remaining years in search of their barbies!

    Lick mich!

  105. shantam Prem says:

    Anthony and non Hindi speaking seekers,
    Below is the translation of around 75 seconds of Osho in Mahageeta discourse 39.
    These are not just the words, He has lived, spoken, initiated people exactly like this. The whole spectrum of human beings; emotional types & intellectual ones, university educated or high school drop outs, romantic ones and playboys, girls who shave armpits and women who keep natural, all are accepted in Sannyas with open arms.
    from New York, London to small villages in Brazil and India…all these people are the share holders of Osho vision, His ashram and they are provided all the tools for their personal journey with their speed.
    why some good intented idiots want to regulate all this and that too without any mandate or authority

    “It is being said that a good teacher is one who speaks keeping in mind the last student in his class. In the class are all kind of students, fist class, second class, third class. there are students with high IQ and also students who are week in their intellect.
    So the good teacher is one, who addresses the last student in the class. If he speaks keeping in mind the first, only one will understand remaining 29 will miss the points. If his focus is the last one, all the thirties in the class can understand.
    The seers of the east, when they speak about the ultimate truth, the last is also in their focus.They speak accordingly.”

  106. Dilruba says:

    Shantam …” The seers of the east ,when they speak about the ultimate Truth ,the last is also in their focus . They speak accordingly .” .. first and last of all A Seer cannot be confined to East / West … how can anyone keep them {Seers} bound in any category … !

  107. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam. you do not discuss my points. you just put me in a box and from there relate to me and what i say.

    I have the feeling i have raised very valid questions in my last post. and you just say: that ia am just happy with the way things hare , lets photoshop osho´s beard now….
    come one! I am trying to have an intelligent discussion with you and you bring such comments…
    answer my points fellow, do not ridicule me.

  108. shantam Prem says:

    Sorry Anthony, this satirical things about beard, i should not have addressed to you.
    It should be taken as a sincere satire on the things happening in general but not for any body in particular.

    Again i say, sorry, this was a punch below the level.
    I hope you accept this with playfulness and for this i wish to buy you the carrot juice in German Bakery!

    Dilruba, I have tried my best to translate the required lines without any edition, and therefore they are given in inverted comas.
    When you listen this discourse you will get the feeling. It also shows that, use osho’s words in fragmentation and we can miss the point. So complete discourses need to be published or broad casted.
    Link of the discurse is given below

    http://www.esnips.com/doc/40c12b9a-88f4-4231-a142-ab0d5ccdbbb9/Free-download-osho-Ashtavakra-mp3–Mahageeta-39/nsnext

  109. shantam Prem says:

    Just got the mail with a message-
    ” When you argue do not let your hearts get distant, do not say words that distance each other more, else there will come a day when the distance is so great that you will not find the path to return.”

    is the distance between different factions have gone so much that even OSHO cannot be bridge anymore.

    I think many of us are waiting for a small note from the authorities at 17, Koregaon park, Pune. This kind of small note can be a turning point, a game changer.

    Beloved Friends,
    Soon we will have the 20th anniversary of Osho leaving the body. To celebrate this event, let us dance and sing and meditate together. This is an open invitation to ALL of His people, young and old, Fresh and the ancient!

    Love

    Management Committee

  110. shantam Prem says:

    This one is for Him. His people can enjoy too.

    Four Catholic men and a Catholic woman were having coffee.

    The first Catholic man tells his friends,

    ‘My son is a priest.

    When he walks into a room, everyone calls him

    ‘Father’ ‘.

    The second Catholic man chirps,

    ‘My son is a bishop. When he walks into a room people call him

    ‘Your Grace”.

    The third Catholic gent says, ‘My son is a cardinal. When he enters a room everyone says

    ‘Your Eminence”.

    The fourth Catholic man chirps,’My son is the Pope. When he walks into a room people call him

    ‘Your Holiness”.

    Since the lone Catholic woman was sipping her coffee in silence, the four men give her a subtle,

    ‘Well…?’

    She replies, ‘I have a daughter.

    She is slim, tall and 36-24-36.

    When she walks into a room, people say,

    ………”OH MY GOD !!!”

  111. Dilruba says:

    Shantam … Gratitude for taking the trouble …. and sharing this discourse .. l listened to it … your translation is accurate … and l apologise that this was for Anthony & non -hindi speaking seekers …
    And this is exactly what is happening when we use his discourses in fragments .. when we compile his discourses … instead of seeing the Truth .. which is the Whole .. l am sorry ‘ if ‘ lam sounding arrogant … that is not what l intend to convey … none of us taking part here intend that … l very well understand this .. Dilruba

  112. Dilruba says:

    Yes ! INFINITE times Yes to this message … ! Shantam which we all Anticipate !

  113. Alok john says:

    Shantam Prem, the function of the Pune “resort” is to provide a place where people can grow in awareness and consciousness, that is all. And the “management committee” have ensured that Pune remains one of the best places on earth, if not the best place, to do this. Even the banned people could probably enter if their purpose alone was to grow in consciousness as an individual rather than playing politics or some other agenda. Problems usually occur because people have some other motives for being there.

  114. Kranti says:

    Hi The link gives me some mantra chanting..Is there a discourse ?

    I dont understand Hindi much..But i really enjoy listening to Osho discourses in Hindi as i love the flow of his speech..and the intensity.

    In one of the books written by a close Osho disciple ..a westerner…she describes how listening to Osho in 70s used to sound like the best music she ever heard..

  115. Kranti says:

    ” Problems usually occur because people have some other motives for being there.’

    While i respect Shanam’s & Dilruba’s views on Heart oriented approach i also feel the same way Alok feels except for some fine tuning required to balance the approach..and may be… just may be …restoring that Buddha hall heritage Shantam talks about to respect the feelings of earlier generation sannyasins..

  116. shantam Prem says:

    Alok John, i was checking at facebook to find you. Seven Alok John are there. Three kids from India and four are faceless Alok John’s.
    I am sure many of us have seen each other in a global village spread in 24 acres of prime Land in Pune. so it will be a joy to know you also, by sharing our Osho thoughts here, a certain kind of bonding takes place as it happens in the group rooms.

    And what you think, when the next members of “management committee”, decide to rename the ashram as “Osho Global Village”. I just thought this name gives more dimensions than the Resort.

    And also as the tradition has been established, maroon and white will remain the main colors of the school dress. I don’t think someone will dare to change the colors, many of us will freak out…Same is about the meditation techniques.
    Only with the NAME, the title shield, we have the possibility to play with and yes, the menu at Zorba also can get a bit of face lift, say once in a week, Butter chicken and Garlic Nan,,Read wine is anyway there.
    Vegetarian lobby will make a bit of noise. But i think i have heard sometime, When Osho was provoked, He mentioned something like,” If it is good for my people, soon i can tell them to have meat based food.”

  117. Kartar says:

    Hey Alok…the function of Pune Resort, OIF and their legal representatives have created a legal organization that attempts to control sannyasins for their own purposes. They are bullying centers and online Osho lovers into signing documents, and are controlling Osho like a mafia religion. They are obviously wanting to control all sannyas activity which has to be approved by the OIF Vatican. This is what they are doing right now. According to Pramod the choice is choicless. OIF do not know any other language. The more independant Osho centers the better IMV. I am starting one soon and everybody,s invited.

    Peace

  118. shantam Prem says:

    According to Pramod the choice is choicless….

    I think after the great legal fiasco, OIF should Launch “Sri Sri Parmod” in the Indian market to counter balance the influence of “Bhagwan Shailandra Jain”.
    Both these souls have the best knowledge about Osho. When all of us were dozing in the dreams and thoughts and were listening only His words, these two were grasping the very essence, the nectar.

    About the size and style of beard of Sri Sri Parmod, they can ask Osho’s medium or can meditate together to get the answer.
    Oh my God….The answer lies again in meditation.. .

  119. Dhanyam says:

    Dear Kranti,

    For this forum I am trying to share my observations.

    I am not saying to free the copyrights.

    It is my understanding that after Osho died, the Inner Circle became responsible for the day-to-day practical administration of the ashram/commune/resort. I never heard that anyone had the authority to alter, edit, delete, project what Osho said, in any shape or form.

    You write, “Thats exactly we have been discussing.. If OIF edits books then sannyasins can take up that issue and resolve .. ” How do you suggest sannyasins can tape up the issue and resolve it?

    You say “with good intention” and “to protect Osho.” Behind the black curtain of secrecy around the Inner Circle, do you know who is there, who makes decisions, how decisions are made, what the background, experience, and intelligence of these people is? How long are they in power, how is power transferred, etc? Is this how we want things to happen?

    The person or persons in charge do everything in secret, and no one has any ability to do anything, except go to court if you have sufficient time, energy, and money.

    What I suggested is that if OIF doesn’t want to put original, unedited books or discourse on the Net, then they should allow someone else to do it, even under their supervision.

    Love, Dhanyam

  120. Kranti says:

    Dhanyam

    I am greatful for your post. Now i understand you viewpoints..

    With due respect to you what i have been trying address in this forum is we need to differentiate the issue of Editing & Freeing Osho…

    And also resolve issues on Head Vs Heart approach..

    But i fully agree with you on that secrecy of the functioning of Inner Circle.. I made it very explicit in the beginning that i express my view purely as an outside and as someone who loves Osho.. I do have serious limitations in knowing what is happening behind the curtains..

  121. Kranti says:

    Dhanyam , Just to add when i said OIF editing books with right intentions i was NOT trying to justify what they were doing..I just said they edit because that is how they want to see Osho Vision unfolding..Whereas once you free Osho so much of editing will take place outside which are not with good intentions or with an understanding of Osho..Thats is even major harm to His discourses..

    So what i said is ‘ Relative ‘ effects of editing.. But i dont agree with editing Osho books whatever the reasons are… Thanks for sharing these with me..

    With Love
    Kranti

  122. shantam Prem says:

    Dhyan Gregory,
    i have just read your post of 9th August..
    Please share more..
    i will try to find the ebook of Wilhelm Reich..”Listen Little man.

    Dhyan Gregory // Aug 9, 2009 at 2:05 pm
    “The issue which was needed to resolve amicably finally has been resolved in the US courts.”

    Had it been possible to resolve it amicably, the Inner Circle of 21 would not have split in the first place. The 21 members didn’t have enough spirit to counterbalance the inevitable centrifugal forces. The first calamity and the last.

    “Captain Jayesh expells his co players from the main stream and than hinders them to start their own abode, their own working model as a homage to the common Master.”

    It’s natural. Osho whispered in Jayesh’s ear, “I leave you my dream”. I trust he filled in this blank cheque to the best of his ability. It’s equally natural that Keerti, Neelam and Arun feel they would’ve done a better job.

    Perhaps a good time to start reading Wilhelm Reich’s “Listen, Little Man!”
    Writes Osho in his “Books I have Loved”: “This book should be meditated upon by all my sannyasins. I recommend it without any conditions at all.”
    In “Sermons in Stones”, Osho adds, “He [Reich] belongs to us. I give him posthumous sannyas.”

    One will never know, but It seems reasonable to surmise that Osho would have preferred whispering in Reich’s ear, instead of that of Jayesh, had the former still be alive.

    Alas! Things being what they are. It’s no use crying over spilt milk. Suchness, Aes dhammo sanantano – in this very moment, every moment the eternal, inexhaustible law…

  123. shantam prem says:

    Thanks Swami for sharing the ebook reference of Wilhelm Reich,
    Before i write another comment, i will read this book first.

  124. shantam Prem says:

    One will never know, but It seems reasonable to surmise that Osho would have preferred whispering in Reich’s ear, instead of that of Jayesh, had the former still be alive….

    Dhyan Gregory,

    It is very much possible to have the last Whisper in Reich’s ear, but as the circumstance of that time were, Wilhelam Reich must have the same sharpness and loads of money too.
    May be Richness as first quality, Reichness as second.

  125. Chinmaya says:

    OSHO and his writings is the property of all sanyasins, this is not fair on the part of a particular group to take it over and become the owner and discard all others. It seems, this group has not learnt and listened Osho with full awareness and could not get the chance to be in the class of the awakened-ones. We all are living with bonus years of life in the last phase of life, let us give chance to all sanyasins throughout the Globe. Contemporaries must be reading this total mail and must be happy, because their shops are running nicely, by listening Osho and vomiting on the public by charging high rates……Before it is too late, let us sit togather and spread the messate of our Master of Millaneium. Love all……….OSHO……..OSHO……….OSHO

  126. I feel that arguing about what is right and what is wrong and discussing about the being of Osho is waste of time…..

    Clock is ticking…. what are we going to do….. just forget about the people who commercialize spirituality which is the essence of humane being….

    I know there were 5000 people who lived with Osho in Oregon, USA…. My question is why even 1 of them were not able to continue the work of Osho which is nothing but pouring ice cold water on a person who is deep asleep…. He obviously didn’t do it to change the entire world. But it is useful for the 1% of the human race who are awakened and are tortured by the majority and the other 1% who were in the middle of the 98% asleep and 1% awake…. The 1%, we could say that they are half asleep and any moment they will be absolutely awake if we join together and do something sensible… I am ready to take on this endeavor and I don’t care about the consequences….. I have found out that this is my life’s purpose….

    Check out my channel on YouTube and contact me and lets get into action my fellow humane beings….

    Thanks for your time….

    Love Happiness Peace is always with U….

    Cheers ~arun