WITH DUE RESPECT
to everyone concerned, After seeing years of legal battles and conflicting opinions on Osho’s vision & also the inability / reluctance of concerned people to come together for a larger cause … I feel the core of the issue is the absence of a successful organizational model… which will give space for people managing the (temporal) affairs around Osho’s work to resolve issues by communication, rather than by legal battles.
Currently Intelligence , Meditative energy , Love , and Passion all are getting wasted due to this lack of direction…
Whether we like it or not it is 21 century… We need a very highly efficient Organisational model to run any place… even if it is an Osho meditation centre.
Osho himself accepted forming an ‘entity’ for managing the (temporal) affairs of His work, even though He never wanted one until His later years.
What we are seeing is the result of everyone trying to control what Osho gave – The Vision & The Tools. He gave these so they could support His work.
Yes.. We have to accept the inevitabilities.. But we don’t have to accept them as destiny… the ongoing conflicts are dragging Osho’s vision in that direction… instead of allowing things to drift and result in diverse and ineffective systems corrupting Osho’s vision.
We can call for the creation of a new organisation ..‘ “Osho Unlimited ” with globally run Meditation centres under a licensing system , having control over worldwide publishing, and with affiliations to other organisations running therapies ( Kind of outsourcing therapies )… Only difference needs to be that the organisation should be supervised by 21 Board of Directors ( Neo-Inner Circle ) who have Meditation as the ‘core aspect’ of their life .
Kranti.
What is, Kranti, is, what is.
What you call the temporal wing of sannyas will basically attract politicians, not meditators.
If you ask a meditator to “administer” he runs a mile!! If you ask a politician to meditate…. look what happened to Sheela, snoring in the front row.
Totally wrong choice some people would say, but Osho choose her! Okay maybe he didn’t. I have seen that argued. That he just “allowed” things to happen around him. Doubt it myself, but suppose it is just about a possibility. Certainly would explain a lot.
People who are into meditation, just are not interested in organising, etc. They left that behind, they say, in a previous life, now they go for the bigger stakes, freedom from the ego itself…. …
” People who are into meditation, just are not interested in organising, etc ”
Thats precisely the reason there has to be combination of Meditators to advice and Administrators to run the day to day affairs.. Before something is implemented and given to he administrators for excecution it needs be discussed by a Neo-Inner Circle.. But that team will not get involved in administering things..
This is just one part.. There are other aspects related to run global centres which i brifed above.
Multiversity will be taken up to a TOP NOTCH CENTER OF EXCELLENCE which will attract worldwide Experts In Psychology and Therapies..Once again..the way people came for Osho ….But they will not come if there are too many scattered small centers running everything in theri own way with no sense of direction & scale
The most important thing is FINANCE… Unless there is very efficient organization running the affairs finance will be wasted and there will not be any transparency
All the orginal inner cirle members should be called again to be part of the advisory board
The heart of operations will always be according to Osho’s Vision..
OSHO WILL BE TRULY GLOBAL
Just to add
All the Osho lovers who want to run meditation centers need to think about the larger cause instead of resisting everything..and wanting freedom at the cost of Osho being a global force..
Any agreement which needs to be exceuted can be desinged by the Inner Circle by taking inputs and suggestions from everyone.. same way an organization takes inputs through discussions / surveys before taking major decisons which will impact all …
Heraclitus,
I think most of us will be curious to listen your prospective.
Since months this forum is heating up for the socio religious aspects of Osho work, adminstration and toilet cleaning included.
There are more than dozen groups on facebook with thousands of members, one can share the photos, paragraphs from discourses etc.
When you are participating here, there must be some where an interest about the power behind the bulbs.
Please, let us know, what you feel for the organisation structure around Osho.
If you feel all is tip top, please tell people like me, the frustarted ones, who are speaking bullshit, because they could not taste the grapes and if out of your meditation and Osho listening, you feel some improvement is required, that will also be fine.
Osho hesitated 3 days in 1970 before giving Laxmi the go ahead to organise neo- sannyas – which was Laxmi’s idea actually.
Dont suppose most of us would have heard of Osho had he said no.
BUT he did hesitate!! And I see why! Who the hell wants a Church around them, whether it’s right or left!
Teachers like Krishnamurti to Barry Long seem to have got by with very little formal “organisation”. I think that sannyas should now simulate that, which in a way is happening.
hey Heraclitus, whats going on..? I am in cahoots with you!
What you remember is, that it is all good. I have come to the point were all of the Osho factions are good, actually fantastic. A myriad of celebrations. Actually I just had the thought to go on a tour from the himalayas with Arun and then Neelam at Nisarga to the plains of Delhi and Osho world and Keerti and to the cool resort hill station of the delights of the Resort. and then ride the night.to the Goa beach Osho place. It is all good. Great!
Swamiji, Yours will be a thrilling journey, please add Jabalpur (Swami Anand Vijay) also in this.
And don’t forget to share your travelogue with us.
This http://www.oshoamritdham.com/about%20us.htm is new to me, if I am passing I will calll in.. the varranasi express goes through Jabalpur. The issue is how to get from Nisarga to tapoban or the other way around?
I agree to a certain point with Heraclitus.
I would like to ask you however, what your opinion is on this “cleek” mind mentalility between factions.
Like, Pune don;t like no one outside Pune. Osho World don;t like Pune and Tapoban.
Tapoban don;t like Pune , disagrees with Osho World/Neelam but don’t ban them outright.
Neelam don’t like Pune.
But…I like the Idea of not being penalized by any faction for like all the factions of Osho today. And I know Tapoban, Osho World and Osho Nisarga don;t really have issue’s with people who like the different sides.
But Pune will ban you if you are involved with any side of it other than itself!
So what is your opinion on this?
-Amrito
**But…I like the Idea of not being penalized by any faction for *Liking a particular faction of Osho today
yes me too, there should be no penalization. Perhaps there isn’t already. I f you are ok, all is ok.
So Kranti, who stayed 3 days in Pune wants a new organization….are we all crazy? Here on the sannyas news forum a group of about 10 people having nothing else to do then think about, how the resort and Osho International should be re-structured. What qualification Kranti brings to the table or Shantam Prem? Jayesh, Neelam, Anando, Shunyo etc. – these are people alive, who have spent years with Osho in the body, did their dues in the ashram, travelled with Osho, got jailed with Osho and are part of the original Inner Circle assigned by Osho. They also spent hours meditating with Osho.
This forum becomes Absurdistan and needs a reality check urgently.
“Jayesh, Neelam, Anando, Shunyo etc. – these are people alive, who have spent years with Osho in the body, did their dues in the ashram, travelled with Osho, got jailed with Osho and are part of the original Inner Circle assigned by Osho. They also spent hours meditating with Osho…..”
Therefore these people should meet in the name of Osho, in the name of their common journey to give a new coat of cement and paint to the crumblng walls of the central point.
We are ten people who have nothing else to do…but their are other million and so..who have spend years and years around Osho..is not their silence deafning.
Was central point Osho was just a General practitionar, treating our cough and cold..we were paying cash for the services rendered, where the fuck comes emotional involvment,,,
Are we just the passangers of a particular airlines, therefore what is the need to care, who is the CEO or who is the pilot as long as we reach our destination safely, and destination is that point where i have a reasonable good job, and a life partner, and a therapist who will tell me to breath deeply when the gentleman can not stand to see the lady entering!
You are one of the ten people here, Buddha and can feel happy, because small pressure groups have always created the environment for a bigger change all the time in every society.
Somehow it is not what Kranti who spend three days in Pune is writing but his intention and his willingness to go beyond the facades is important.
So Buddha, please don’t undermine the value of ten, may be they are giving the voice to the silent majority.
What are your qualifications Shantam, what are Kranti’s? Did you run a company over many years…did you run an Osho Meditation place for many years…are you trained in meditation and therapies for many years? Can you deal with Indian politicians…can you deal with international banking…do you have experience in international publishing and licensing…do you have a strong legal background like Yogendra…can you deal with the Osho lunatics?
At the end we are here on this planet for our own awakening and let’s take this forum for what it is, a lighthearted exchange of our gossipy mind. If you want revolution, take 50 friends and take over the resort, but then what?
“Jayesh, Neelam, Anando, Shunyo etc. – these are people alive, who have spent years with Osho in the body, did their dues in the ashram, travelled with Osho, got jailed with Osho and are part of the original Inner Circle assigned by Osho. They also spent hours meditating with Osho…..”
When it rains, it rains on everyone…!!!!!
So Prem Buddha, this is your conclusion that the above people has got the immense advantage over the others because of the things you have mentioned above..
It means generation of people who come afterwards can never surpass these people in their spiritual growth, in their intellectual development, in their vision of life… Do you really believe so.. that the names given by you and few others functionaries are the St. Mathias, St. Paul, St. Lukas of our time…
And i am sure being a wealthy man you know also the difference between the consumer and the share holder of a company.
The simple fact is that the moment you take Sannyas, you become the share holder of a vision…
My God.. New York Times editorials and columnists like Thomas Friedman; world is flat, don’t have the experience of being in white house administration, it means nobody should ever write all over the world over the state of affairs.
The shit happens when people write something and when they come at the helm of power behave in the same old way.
I can assure you, in case life brings me to Inner circle, Circle will be big enough for an hug with everybody.
let’s take this forum for what it is, a lighthearted exchange of our gossipy mind… for that can’t you find friends in your local Pub or you feel superior to relate with the normal folks their being a Pune visiter for 30 years and having such a exotic name…
A bit Indian cultist kind of feeling comes when an western uses some names from a language he knows nothing about… But all thi in the name of the Master.. Master will give the candies..and lolly pop!!
let’s take this forum for what it is, a lighthearted exchange of our gossipy mind…You think the editors of this site are drunkards who are allowing their website to be hijacked by the Comrades…
Did you run a company over many years…did you run an Osho Meditation place for many years…are you trained in meditation and therapies for many years? Can you deal with Indian politicians…can you deal with international banking…do you have experience in international publishing and licensing…do you have a strong legal background like Yogendra…can you deal with the Osho lunatics?
I have many qualifications mentiond above, but will not mention because you have written the above paragrph because of your buttons are pushed…
And when an American’s buttons are pushed and that too an wealthy one…and most probably the white one, he sees weapons of mass destruction everywhere…
So sorry… Prem Buddha… i am just one of the 1.25 bllion Indians and we have never taken part in any revolution. Never invaded any country and never changed the names of cities, countries and the visionaries.
If you want revolution, take 50 friends and take over the resort, but then what?
From where you conceived this idea?
Listen Bro,,If people are happy with the product delevery, they can sure enjoy.
if people want an improvement in the customer service.. is it not a democratic right to express the dissatsifaction.
If people feel happy to see their king an exprt in international banking and legal jargon and three piece suit it is fine..may be few see that king is naked.
Who is right, wo is right…
I think peaceful majority opinion is needed….Just get .000001 percent more votes, and John Karry can say,” President Bush is my commander in Chief”!
When the Americans or British feels disturbed by the peaceful voice of criticism in any human set up . I wonder are they really the salt of their land or the cross migratory birds from China or North Korea.
What you mean by qualifications Prem? This is a forum respresenting sannyasins and anyone ca express their opinion..and we express our thoughts based on what we see.. I have enough management expertise to run places..But thats is a different issue altogether..
What you talk about is just four or five people.. What we talk abot is Osho Vision.. I am not saying i am the saviour for Osho Vision but we need to look beyond the four or five people. What happens to Osho once these people are gone..gone forever..Do you think these people also have a secret to live for another 500 years..
And i have lot of respect for the people whom you mention and they have done their job..And they were fortunate to be Osho..that DOES NOT mean THEY OWN OSHO..OSHO WAS NOT A PRODUCT OWNED BY 5 PEOPLE WHO LIVED CLOSE TO THEM. And you seems to suggest they have special rights to do what they want… Osho and His Vision needs to be Delinked from Individuals.. No matter who is their in adsministration the VISION has to carry on..
All the people we talk about including JK had clearly laid rules for running organization and Trademarks, Copyrights..No other group fights internally and madly like the way Osho group fight..
If things drift what we will have is some 100 plus small meditation centers which get 40 people every month..and those centers also will disappear after some time ..
Where you will you for Money..Prem.. It is 21st centuary you need SCALE & Money to run anything.. If we want to see Osho Globally then something needs to be done…
We can not be SELFISH enough to say LET USE THIS FORUM FOR OUR AWARENESS AND FORGET ALL ABOUT IT.. And do you think you are going to awakened by sharing Gossips in a forum..
you asy ” let’s take this forum for what it is, a lighthearted exchange of our gossipy mind.’
Thats exactly the problem.. Using Osho for timepass..
You are a wealthy American Prem.. If you want you can create a ZEN garden and Private Meditation Center in your own Land..
Million of sannyasins need Osho and His Vision to carry on irespective of who is there in administration..People in power need to think beyond themselves..
If you want to see SELF SUFFICIENT MEDITATOR then you need A SELF SUFFICIENT ORGANIZATION in place to continue providing Osho Meditations and Therapies to those potential Self Sufficient Meditators.. not few individuals groups fighting legal battles..
All the people whom we talk about losing credibility quickly in the eyes of the world.. The more they drag the issue the more it is going to move people away … And there any number of Neo advaitha teachers on the Horizon to take over.. Dont think Osho Vision will walk on its own legs and spread itself..without a organization to back it up..
To answer your question that i was in Pune for 3 days.. Yes.. I love Pune.. I also love the way it is currently run.. I dont have any problems.. As long as i am allowed i will keep going to Pune.. because thats where my HEART is..
IThe whole issue was triggered because of the legal battle.. Pune has lost the legal battle and it is not in the good interest of Osho Vision..
What i suggest is a new version of Osho International.. Thats it.. but it should be a by product of bring everyone together after taking into account larger cause of Osho Vision and how people can contribute from wherever they are..
To me the Swami Atul or whoseover it is has caused a serious damage to Osho Vision by fighting things in the court and trying to free Osho…Someone can Free Osho only if they know how to ensure ‘a free Osho’ is nor corrupted.. Swami Atul has a moral responsibility to tell how that is going to hapen..We have discussed that enough and i dont want to get into that arguement anymore..
“Did you run a company over many years…did you run an Osho Meditation place for many years…are you trained in meditation and therapies for many years? Can you deal with Indian politicians…can you deal with international banking…do you have experience in international publishing and licensing…do you have a strong legal background like Yogendra…can you deal with the Osho lunatics? ”
Thats precisely what we are also saying… We need people with that calibre to run the place ..after these people are gone who will be there? Thats why we need an organizational structure..
Lastly when a Citizen condemns the government you dont ask him
Have you run a governement before ?,
Do you have expeience of working as a President?
Do you know how to develop cross border secuity ?
Do you know how to run the paliament?
The question was as foolish as the above one..
Prem Buddha,
I stay behind the contents of my words, but wish to say sorry also with a hug if the intensity of my words have hurted you…Discussions are to made each other rich, happy,and more evolved not just individually but collectively; but not to knock out the other.
With love and a cup of chai from the summit point!!!
shantam
There can not could not ever have been a tradmark of the things that they wanted to trademark, it was a wrong idea. It was illegal to trademark osho and the other stuff. It was a wrong idea. Osho can not ever be a trademark. Also the copyright is worthless, it will expire soon.
Try to see that everything is fine the way it is. Forget about your foolish ideas. empty your mind of all this rubbish. Enjoy the breeze.
Stop seeing them and us.. rich and poor.. black and white….
Thankyou Swami Bhai for Reminding…
And it reminds me the purpose of the Sangha, The commune.
Master cannot be in body for ever but His people can go on doing the same thing, making each other laugh and also to help to come out from the stiff patterns.
A chain of seekers pouring the colorful water on each other for the Awakening…. …
Just opened the windows for cool breeze as you suggested…
Show me one more major contemporary master whose name and works is not trademarked / copyrigted?
they even trademark the icons / buttons used in the website..
You are not trademarking Osho as a person… You are trademarking his name meditations after His death.. there is a huge difference
It is all same stupid resistance people came up with when Osho talked about past conditionings…
Let us live in the past and keep saying teachers who lived 3000 years ago didnt trademark…
Common give a break
Just for the sake of and enjoyment of resisting let us not resist.. your own OFI fought aginst trademark not because they dont belive in trademark.. i understand they also tried trademarking and it didnt work out.. So they changed strategy.. Reason is disgusting.. they coldnt see trademarks resting wih one group. Everyone want to have fun at the cost of Osho.. No one cares about Osho.. Everyone is worried about how snatch their part of the cake..and in that process killing Osho vision but showing to world that the they are doing a great service to humanity..
It has been months and i have asked one question repeatedly and no one is able to answer
Give me reasons why Osho trademark / copyright is bad..What negative impact it will have?
Let us not have the same old answer stating Osho cannot be copyrighted , meditation cannot be copyrighted like parrots..
Let us go beyond comfort zones and discuss what is the negative / positive impact of having trademark / copyrights for Osho?
May be if there is a separate thread the focus will stay in that area..
If someone can prove that trademark / copyright has no benefits and it is detrimental to spread Osho vision then i will change my stance and drop out of this forum..you will never hear me again..
My answer is for Amrito, the one who writes here, not the Resort one!
It is a little difficult, I can see your problem. I think you serve Osho in Canada, and got turned onto Osho through Arun?
Just do what Osho told us to do in 1985, go underground,and make your way in the world like a double agent!
It’s okay. if you love the energy at the Resort, and at Tapoban, and at Nisraga and wherever, just go like a complete unknown, someone without any particular view, and enjoy the energy there, and allow Osho’s energy there to prod you into whatever.
Osho himself is not interested in all this organiastional stuff, he only has one end, to get you beyond the ego. And even then, just to hold your hand along the way… that is as much as can be done.
The various “factions” are just like leaves in the wind and will disappear within a hundred years.
Love.
Hi Heraclitus, thanks for your response
.
Actually both of my parents are Sannyasins and have met Osho. My dad used to stay in the commune at Kathmandu with Sw. Arun during 80s.
So I’ve always had a bit of Osho in me since early childhood and had a strong desire to be in a commune before meeting Sw. Arun. He has certainly inspired me to expand Osho though in Canada.
Keerti,
Your question is very valid.. i would like to think and research about this.
it will be utterly stupid to paint Jayesh/Amrito team as villains, and other as heroes.
At least from my side this was never an approach.
We have a inner obligation to stay with fairness and always be open for the best solution even it comes from the enemy.
Somewhere, wr are encountering wiring defect. The merger of cultures which was looking quite an easy task during His life time, has shown its clashing side. Diagnostically it looks simple, one powerful group could not win the trust and confidence of other players.
A country will also disintegrate, if the equal proportion is not given to all the states, linguistic minorities etc. With force and brutality though for a while you can keep things under control but this is also not the case with our people
As far as i can see, it has less to do with the legal aspects and more with the emotional dis-bonding.People confronting EGO has gone into the monster’s grip.
It is more like the Ambani brothers case,Richest industrialists of India. Both the brothers speak through their lawyers and lobbyist but in spite of that their respective companies outshine the others. unfortunately this is not the case with our factions.
On a personal level, brothers follow the traditional Indian values. They will go to temples, worship lord Shiva and Krishna to help them at the time of crisis.They wish to be first class business people and that they are.
in Sannyasins case, it is even more important that they encounter the EGO problems straight on being thinking themselves as spiritual scientists. To use the word MYSTIC is for the low graders, it gives a feeling of devotion and hocks-pocks. We have forgotten the art of synastery, our master was preparing us for life. We have learnt quite well that 2+2=4, but in the same sense their is a misplace confidence that 22+22=8
People well versed in International banking and wheeling dealing always make small mistakes with big consequences!
I just want to summarise few points and take a break from this forum for all practical purposes unless something surprising comes up & forces me to post..as i feel i have outlived my purposes which i took out of love for Osho
1.The reason i asked for new organizational structure is because there is no ‘ Meeting Point ‘ for all the factions ..There is no common interest which will bring people together unless some new set up with everyone’s participation is created.. With the present scenario there is no meeting possible..
If people are adamant to ensure the meeting between factions should not take place then they will not accept it. If people want the meeting to take place but they dont want OFI and teams to give up anything which was won in legal battle then we are not being reasonable..then Pune does not have reason to discuss..
In the whole history of human beings no discussions have taken place like that …where one side wants to retain everything they won from the legal battle and just have celebration for namesake..OFI and Teams have MORAL responsibility to initiate things and ready for few compromises.
2. People say ‘ there is no need for this meeting to take place and everything is fine as it is.. This is like an ‘ Ostrich burrying its head in sand and behaving everything is alright ‘
Why everything was not alright in year 2000. If everything is alright then why the OFI and Teams didnt accept everything as it is at that time before going to legal battle.. What is the need for legal battle of everything IS ( WAS ) alright ..
They took aggressive steps to snatch what they wanted.. And after winning the legal battle peopel are saying now we should leave things as it is ..How ridiculous and selfish.. Everyone who says we should leave things as it is has only self interest to see things should continue from where they are now..
I also dont accept that Pune started all legal issues.. No ….If everyone has co-operated for running things smoothly and had not tried to use Osho’s name then legal battles would not have come up..
Yes ..there were opinions on unreasonable agreements to be signed off etc..which could have been sorted out through collective discussion..
3.There is no point in quoting Osho for everything..
Someone says Osho didnt want any organizational set up.. Yes.. He said that.. He even wanted to dissolve everything and leave .. But are we doing that now?
It seems to be a situation of pick and choose what we want..
But if Osho says he wanted a world headquarters which take care of all publishing work , then we conveniently ignore that.. because that interpretation does not suit us..
4. If there are issues with pune or if the balanace is missing, that need to be addressed rather than acting like ‘ Throwing babay with bathtub ‘
Basically number of people have picked up some bitterness or other against pune and all the actions seem to flow out of it.. It is not response..just reactions out of bitterness..
This is the age old story of people rbelling against establishments.. We have proved Osho disciples are NOT different..Shameful
5. Whether we like or not .. Like Anthony says .. Osho is gone.. We have only His teachings & Meditations..Those teachings & Meditations need some amount of legal protection and organizational set up to continue surviving for as long as possible..
Again we can argue Osho Vision does not need any such support etc.. But i dont want to comment about the rationality of such arguements..
To me
This forum is NOT for Time Pass or Gossiping..
Bitter reactions cannot be solutions to conflicts
Blind arguements like ” let us trust life , energy , vision.. everything will automatically taken care etc” will not take us anywhere
We have to look at self interest when people resist everything .. One needs to be true to Osho..not to their self interests
Any new organizational set up doesnt mean we have to go back by 15 years.. It can be totally new with whole hearted participation from every side
And if a new organizational set up has the potential to bring people together why we should resist..I do have answers on who will not allow anything positive to happen..I leave it to the forum to understand..
Lastly to be fair to the other side.. if Pune was not / is not ready have any kind of dialogues then nothing can be done..But the onus of initiaing discussions is on the people who won the legal battle..
Thanks everyone for allowing me to share so much..
With Love
Kranti
Beloved Kranti
You write
(To me the Swami Atul or whoseover it is has caused a serious damage to Osho Vision by fighting things in the court and trying to free Osho…Someone can Free Osho only if they know how to ensure ‘a free Osho’ is nor corrupted.. Swami Atul has a moral responsibility to tell how that is going to hapen..We have discussed that enough and i dont want to get into that arguement anymore..)
your info is wrong.. the Court cases were started by OIF originally, first with http://www.oshoworld.com
and several sannyasins and centres were sent legal threats by OIF. While the court case in USa was going on, threats were being sent to several Osho lovers around the world on the same issue. that’s wy I oftwen say that with same amount of money, time and energy, resourses, OIF could have done something positive in the world–organising meditation camps..like Swami Arun does, Ma Dharm Jyoti ( with support from Swami Atul) does. I have conducted about 25 camps in Malaysia, Singapore, Iran, Kuwait, Dubai and hundreds of camps in several parts of India.
OIF remained busy fighting with sannyasins and trying to crush them whoever did anything without prior permission from 2-3 people operating from new york and registered in Zurich.
Lastly to be fair to the other side.. if Pune was not / is not ready have any kind of dialogues then nothing can be done..But the onus of initiaing discussions is on the people who won the legal battle..
Exactly…this is the solution..
Winning side must come up with humilty and loser side also with retrospective behaviour…
If the roots of the tree i.e. Pune central is not saved, branches will die their natural death. in that case it is better sooner than later.
All these mediation camps, all around the world have total turn over of people not more than a newspaper cigarette selling Kiosks. Small people feel happy with small turnovers…The purpose is not to protect His Ashes but HIS VISION.
Atul, keerti etc. must pursue the path of dialogue vigorously.Path of solutions is stony but possible. , and if they are impossible to achieve in spite of Osho and His thousands of discourses….history will wonder over Osho.
And that is also OK. Whole life Osho was shouting on the disciples, worshipers, believers of all the combined religions, the doggy fights between Shiyas and Sunnies. Catholics and Protestants, Digambaras and Shwetambras Jains, and now…
OFI and OIF are welcomed in the group of war widows and orphans!
Sw Keerthi.
I fully understand .. What i meant is the circumstances which made OFI opt for legal options.. Obiviously they felt people were using Osho’s name or running centers in a manner which is not within the Trademark / Copyrights… Exactly that is the point where communications failed..
OFI should have been made aware of what is acceptable / not acceptable to sannyas community.. But i am not sure whether the legal battle was the corrcet appraoch against Pune..
Now , There is No point in talking about it ..It is 10 years down the line.. What is the point of analysing whether the legal battle is right or wrong as you rightly & beautifully did mention in your posts earlie
” We fought a case of trademarks…Some people were supposed to lose it, and some were supposed to win it. There must have been some purpose in registering them, and some purpose in getting them cancelled ”
As discussed there are whole lot of other aspects related to how these all meditation centers will run , how the global publication work will be taken care etc needs to be sorted out.. that cannot happen unless everyone is brought together
Who will initiate discussions.. Obiviously it is not me and Shantam who are just two of the 1000s of ordinary sannyasins.. It has to be you , Neelam & Atul. because they have the lost the laegal battle Pune will not be in a position to initiate talks..
Then the second question is if and when talks take place what kind of options are there infront of both teams.. If OFI & teams go for discussions as ‘ People who won the legal battle ‘ & ‘ without any willingness to forgo some advantages gained thru the legal win ‘ then there is no meeting ground..
As i said earlier i am a Nobody.. I dont have any personal interests whatsoever except love for Osho..
I am even greatful that you reply to posts here.. Like others you could have easily ignored us..But your love for Osho is making you reply to posts here.. Thats why when you said ” Neelam is not a ‘internet’ kind of person and she has communicated whatever she wants and thats all ” I felt hurt.. If she can use sannyasnews for posting a thread inviting people to celebrate court case win why not participate further..
We can have 1000 centers throughout the world…
But Pune is Osho , Osho is Pune.. Osho wanted a Buddhafield there and now that is on the verge of becoming just another center with the conflicts..Thats enough reason why people need to talk. and ensure Osho’s heart is intact for as many years to come as possible..
Thanks again
With Love
Kranti
Please read corrrected one.. I used the word OFI Instead of OIF
fully understand .. What i meant is the circumstances which made OIF opt for legal options.. Obiviously they felt people were using Osho’s name or running centers in a manner which is not within the Trademark / Copyrights… Exactly that is the point where communications failed..
OIF should have been made aware of what is acceptable / not acceptable to sannyas community.. But i am not sure whether the legal battle was the corrcet appraoch against Pune..”
Keerti wrote : “OIF remained busy fighting with sannyasins and trying to crush them whoever did anything without prior permission from 2-3 people operating from new york and registered in Zurich.”
I do not know all the details of the legal threats and cases started by OIF. However as far as I know many people have run Osho Meditations in the UK without prior permission from OIF. So Keerti exaggerates.
From about 1987 to 1991 I worked at Osho Purnima Meditation Centre in London. There was a big file about the rules you had to follow if you wanted to run something called an “Osho Meditation Centre.” As far as I recall you had to offer dynamic, kundalini, and evening discourse every day. Participants had to show HIV-negative certificates. And, as far as I recall, you were only allowed to offer Osho meditations and discourses, not much else apart from maybe a musical performance. Remember this is 1987 to 1991 so I presume these demanding rules were endorsed by Osho.
If you called yourself an “Osho Centre” there were few restrictions. For example Osho Leela only offers occasional Osho meditations.
I guess some of the legal threats of OIF was because people wanted to call themselves an “Osho Meditation Centre” while straying a long way from these guidelines.
The rules may have been for running a “Rajneesh Meditation Centre” because “Osho” was adopted as a name in 1989.
And this is what it says on the Osho.com site (OIF)
“All trade names, trademarks, service marks, logos and trade styles on this site are owned by Osho International Foundation. Proper use is limited to use in connection with the products and services of the mark owner and no other use is permitted without the owner’s prior written permission. The following marks are owned by OIF: OSHO and the OSHO SIGNATURE DESIGN, OSHO ACTIVE MEDITATIONS, OSHO KUNDALINI MEDITATION, OSHO GOURISHANKAR MEDITATION, OSHO NADABRAHMA MEDITATION,OSHO NATARAJ MEDITATION, OSHO DYNAMIC MEDITATION, SPIRITUALLY INCORRECT, OSHO REBALANCING, OSHO DIVINE HEALING, OSHO CRANIO-SACRAL BALANCING, OSHO TIBETAN PULSING, OSHO MYSTIC ROSE, OSHO TIMES, OSHO ZEN TAROT, OSHO TRANSFORMATION TAROT, OSHO MEDITATION RESORT, OSHO MULTIVERSITY, NO-THOUGHT FOR THE DAY AND THE SWAN LOGO.
Please Note:
No permission is required to use any of the marks as an accurate factual reference to the practice or teaching of Osho Meditation techniques, provided you as user accurately identify yourself by your own name (not including Osho as part of the name unless you are our licensee).
The only restriction is that if you are teaching or presenting Osho Meditations publicly, you need to ensure that what you are offering is as described and presented in detail on the meditation area of osho.com, with its correct title, for example, Osho Dynamic Meditation, and is accompanied by the music specifically created for that meditation.”
Thanks alok.. I posted the same info from osho.com website few posts earlier in the other thread..
” I guess some of the legal threats of OIF was because people wanted to call themselves an “Osho Meditation Centre” while straying a long way from these guidelines ”
This is my opinion also .. If because people started straying away and OIF had to use legal help we can not say OIF started all legal issues. Thst is reversing logic..
But i do respect Swami keerthis opinions as he has some facts which i am not aware..But like you said things unfolded a bit unfairly for Pune..
Especially considering the track record od Pune in using the Publishing / Trademark rights to massively spread Osho’s work i think by virtue of what they have accomplished the rights should stay with them..or at least we can not take it was aggressively from them..
Think law will take that direction in other contries..US is different..
I mean ” or at least we can not take it away aggressively from them..”
” If you called yourself an “Osho Centre” there were few restrictions. For example Osho Leela only offers occasional Osho meditations. :
What you will do with Oshodhara.. I dont see any connection to what they teach with Osho except for the Osho quotes displayed in the website & few Osho meditations conducted just to ensure some link to heritage.. Their core aspects seems to have nothing to do with Osho , His thoughts , His approach or His meditations..
This was the situation even before ..Now we have freed Osho ………………..
Just sharing some light on Osho dhara. I asked yogendra why no cases have been brought against them.+ he answer3ed to me that in India it is impossible to enforce trademarks and the only option was a civil case which take for ever and cost lots of money. He sais it was impossible to fight legally in India.
Kranti wrote : “What you will do with Oshodhara.. I dont see any connection to what they teach with Osho except for the Osho quotes displayed in the website & few Osho meditations conducted just to ensure some link to heritage.. Their core aspects seems to have nothing to do with Osho , His thoughts , His approach or His meditations..”
Same with Osho Leela. The core of the place is behaviourist psychotherapy invented by Veeresh, who is always (politically?) careful to say he is a follower of Osho. But many sannyasins like to go there. I guess OIF thinks it would not be worth the heartache and anger to start legal proceedings against them.
If this can happen even with the availability of copyrights / trademarks what will be the situation under ‘ Free Osho’..
We will be watching helplessly all kinds of corruptions to Osho’s name.. Few years down the line Osho will be remembered for ceramics and shoes or at the most some meaningless therapies and not for trying to lift Human Conciousness to such high level..
When you try to talk about it it is either called Paranoia or inability to live in the present moment. or Cant understand that a Buddha’s name can not be trademarked. etc etc
Well it is only “Free Osho” in the USA, and only for trademark, not copyrights. So who knows how it will all unfold?
I think there is a proverb,”Penny Wise, Pound Foolish”, somehow we as a collective mind/heart are operating on similar lines.
One of my friend who has spend much time and money at Odhara mentioned that it was an act of defiance on their founder’s part. They felt disgusted by the internal fights and control mentality of the people at Pune central.
People at Pune could only bring the Delhi group to the courts as deep down they play the same style,, their is a kind of sibling revelry.
So two big groups were fighting the court battles in one of the most expansive countries of the world and majority of the sannyasins were simply withdrawing from the street fight.
At least few people here at this forum are taking the initiative to stand for the country rather than for the Democrats or Republicans.
This kind of unbiased public opinion has shaken many kingdoms in the human history, most probably in our time too, this will happen.
So 17, koregaon Park, Pune, the spiritual capital of Osho’s work will see many worthful changes in the future too, , what we are seeing is not the last chapter of the thriller/horror/suspense.
I am sure by operating sannyasnews.com in this form, the founders of this endeavour wish to convey in their own way, how much important is the voice of a common sannyasin or a simple citizen in a country.
Trademark is refused in the USA, there is a presedent in the trademark world that this is the decision that all accept. The trademark does not have any value in the ,,,O globo.
As for copyright….go to the web and find the files.. they are all there.Darshan videos ..how can you put a value of those…xxx. What value has copyright in this age? Little or none. Look .. on the web ..now… all the files are there. Enjoy . Osho is amazing, sometimes a word..wow.. blow me away…do I look like a lawyer…no …I am a lover..
And what effect does my freedom have on Osho… he is singing a song… waves are coming in .. waves are coming in..
The Inner Circle of now is meeting in the Osho Resort Pune for their annual meeting. Why not present your task in person?
around Christmas time….
” Osho is amazing, sometimes a word..wow.. blow me away…do I look like a lawyer…no …I am a lover.. ”
Thats how Osho impacts us.. Smashing Egos.. Freeing us to taste freedom..
I am breathing easy that you are a Osho lover..Thanks for finally telling us…..
Any Osho lover will have his anxious moments with what is happening now.. True Osho lovers cannot be insensitive …How we express it is different..
You ask ” What value has copyright in this age? ”
You are right ..Inspite of all available trademarks / copyrights teachings can be corrupted.. But that is not an EXCUSE for not having trademarks / copyrights..
Even a OFI & Oshworld needs trademarks / copyrights for running websites.. Can you open one more site in the name of OFI or Oshoworld? Try..
Just because we are expressing our thoughts in a forum Pune is not going to welcome us and say ‘ Please participate in discussions….. ‘
Everyone has their role ..As long as we are playing that role with honesty and love for Osho, it is alright
Osho always spoke against all the stupid things and as Osho disciples the minimum we can do is speak up against what is happening to Osho centers..
Just because Osho spoke against Goverments people didnt say ” Ok Osho now you run the government ‘
Beyond a point you and me are not in control of life.. Are we not aware that we have limitations when we share thoughts in a forum.. We can keep requesting concerned people to do something about ..Thats it..
SWAMI ANAND CHINMAYA has posted beautiful thoughts in the earlier thread… ” Appeal to Neelam and Jayesh ”
What we have been trying to capture for months he has captured in one post… If concerned people read that post of SWAMI ANAND CHINMAYA they will have tears in their eyes and hearts will open for discussion..
Just to borrow from SWAMI ANAND CHINMAYA ‘s post without copyrights ..
” It is the need of the time, for the sake of humanity AND A CALL TO all Sanyasins to COME BACK HOME at Pune, where the Master is available invisiably with his vibes, of course, without body “
The Inner Circle of now is meeting in the Osho Resort Pune for their annual meeting. Why not present your task in person?
If gate less gate is open in the brain of people concerned, i will be glad to meet them personally and show the feelings of grass root sannyasins. xmas is still far away.As i wrote before, the people concerned can perfrom their job better if they read our posts with the daily newspapers. It doesnot mean we are qualified article writers from the prestigious journalism schools but there is a loving concern with Osho and his vision. Sannyasins are not consumers but participants.
Prem Buddha, i assure you there is neither a personal grudge nor any financial,sexual or power motive behind these words…but when Master has operated on our eyes and we can see also; somehow it is an awakening of a kind.
Let me share one of my favourite jokes. it is not from Osho but from a child, I “believe” i am his Papa!
A blond works as a house keeper in a Villa shared by Roger federer, footballer Hakim and a blind person
One day blond is in the shower and bell rings. She wraps the towel around. Federer is there at the door and exclaims,” I am so happy, i have won the title.” Blond congratulates him and close the door.
Few minutes later bell rings again. Again she wraps a towel and opens the door. Hakim is there and gives the news,” our club has won the trophy.” She smiles and close the door and goes again for the bath.
Few minutes later bell rings again. She thinks it must be the blind man so she just goes naked.
Blind man enters and outbursts with joy,” My surgery was successful. i can see again”!
Good One Shantam!
Maybe Neelam & Jayesh’s secretaries can make print outs of these discussions and give it to them … so they can read it whenever they find time for themselves .. since they are doing Osho’s Work { including their own work ofcoarse } and we all happen to be a part of that Work …
” since they are doing Osho’s Work { including their own work ofcoarse } and we all happen to be a part of that Work ”
It need to be that way..Isnt it? Osho , Pune , Neo-sannyas , Inner Circle , Sannyasins , meditation , celebration all are ONE.. You can not take out any part from that Whole pack..
One More reason all should come together ..Heartbeat of all sannyasins / Osho lovers expressed through the words of Chetna..
” I cannot express in words what I feel for the place where Osho has walked, has spoken, has smiled. I cry with every old video of Pune. It took me at least 40 min to walk in the first time I went there. Osho is still there! ”
What more one can say ?
OSHO: Masters are betrayed continuously by their foremost disciples:politics and the mind enters into everything. The disciple betraying the master was hoping that he will be the successor, and when he sees that there are others who are also as competent as he, it is better to betray than to be a failure. He is saving his own ego by betraying. At the moment of recognizing that there are others also, that he is not the only one, the betrayal happens. And it is not just dropping out of the master’s school, philosophy or teaching. From one extreme of trust he goes absolutely to the other extreme of criticizing, even though he knows, what he is saying is not right. He starts imaging things against the master. In this way he proves he is an independent person. But this is not independence, it is saving your ugly ego and in a very stupid
manner. Because a disciple may have lived 20 years with the master, and if the master was wrong, in his acts or words, and the disciple could not find out in twenty years, it simply proves that he is an idiot. And he has to go to the other extreme to prove he is equal to the master, since he could not be the successor.
Well one can quote the Old Boy….
‘Twenty sannyasins walk into the World Trade Center in New York singing, “Drinking from your wine, Bhagwan, drinking from your wine!”
The front desk receptionist calls for the manager to come quickly. He tells the sannyasins that they must be wearing formal dress to enter so one of the sannyasins goes over to the desk and gets the “Rules of the House.” He finds out that priests and people of religious orders do not have the same dress code. He presents this rule to the manager who is thereby forced to allow them entry.
The twenty sannyasins walk into the bar on the one hundred and thirtieth floor still singing, “Drinking from your wine, Bhagwan…” A couple of drinks later, the same sannyasin notices a fat old Texan sitting on the stool next to him. He raps him on the back and they get talking. Fatso happens to import fine scotch whisky into the States. He listens in amazement as this sannyasin tells him that he is a connoisseur and that he knows of a wine that just keeps getting you higher and higher – it is made in India and brewed by a Master called Bhagwan.
“Faarrr out!” drawls the Texan, and he calls the bartender and pays for everybody’s drinks.
A short time later, twenty sannyasins walk out of the bar, singing, “Drinking from your wine, Bhagwan, drinking from your wine…”
That is my message.
Guida Spirituale #8
Wish all of us can go to Pune singing ‘Drinking from your wine, Osho, drinking from your wine…”
only difference will be no one to pay for my entrance … unless Jayesh … says free entry for all sanyassins for 1 day
Jus Joking !
Sometimes jokes come true !
Talking of Jokes..Was just reading that Thief-Master joke in osho.com site ..enjoyed it throughly..
I prefer to sing
” Drinking from your wine, Osho, drinking from your wine…”
rather than MJ’s ‘
‘ They dont care about us ‘
So those Drunkards at the resort are living the Dream!
Posh hotels,free whisky,import/export,hanging with rednecks in plush bars.
Thats the Vision and the Message,
Read the story carefully:
The Religious garb is just a front to get into fancy bars,freeload and PARTY ON.
“Wherever there is a desire to have power over another person, it is politics.
Power is always political, even on small children. The parents think they love, but it is only in their mind; otherwise they want the children to be obedient. And what does obedience mean? It means all the power is in the hands of the parents.”
Are such words only for emotional entertainment? Have they some worth in the inner journey of humans…
Don`t we need to contemplate who are the people to create a structure of obedience around the adult seekers?
Shantam… I still feel..Things at Pune LOOK magnified because of all the conflicts.. If people didnt have to come out then things would not have looked this bad..
Unfortunately whatever Pune does is looked using a magnifying glass.. while what others do are taken as normal or granted or as sincere response and so on and so forth ..
We will never how things started to move into conflicts..and who started this game.. Classic game of whether the egg came first or the chicken…
Just to add.. Thats precisely the reason there is no point analysing the dead past ..the way Tim Guest did..
People should realize… lets celebrate at the first given opportunity ..Osho never would have approved this ‘ hanging on to the burden of past..’… We need not even talk about who is right or wrong.. But wheoever is refusing to drop the past and come for a hug is the ones to take the blame now..
Whatever Kranti and Shantam are doing is politics as well. What is the reason behind Kranti that he is engaging himself so much here? How can he say ‘Osho
would have never approved…’…. Who gives him the authority to know what Osho would have done or would have said, approved? Did he spent any close time with Osho?
Osho did leave very clear instructions about his work to continue, many of which have never become public yet. So no worry for Kranti or Shantam Prem, that things are moving rightly.
What will happen when Osho dies?
>
> Osho:
>
> Osho believes and trusts in existence. He never thinks about the next
> moment. If this moment is going good the next moment will grow out of this
> and be richer.
>
> He doesn’t want to become a prison as all other religions. He even dropped
> “Bhagwan” just because one meaning of it in many people’s minds is “god.”
> The moment somebody is god then, of course, you are a slave, a created being
> can be destroyed without asking you. Stars disappear–what is the man’s
> life?
>
> He does not want to be in any way associated with religion. His work is
> concentrated on the individual and his freedom. And ultimately an
> intelligent one world without boundaries of color, race, nationality.
>
> You are asking what will happen. He is not a god and He does not believe in
> any prophesies or prophets or messiahs. These were all egoist people. So
> whatever He can do in the moment He is doing.
>
> What will happen after He is gone He is leaving to existence. His trust in
> existence is absolute. If there is any truth in what He is saying it will
> survive. So He is not calling His sannyasins followers but fellow travelers.
>
> Given clear instructions that–don’t cling to the past. Go on searching. You
> may find the right person because you have had the taste. And the question
> is very strange. Nobody asked what will happen when Einstein dies. Existence
> is so infinite and so inexhaustible, that people grow like a tree if not
> crippled by people, if not destroyed for their own purposes. That they will
> come to a flowering of their own. He does not propose any program. On the
> contrary, He wants everyone to be deprogrammed. Christianity is a program.
> His work is to deprogram people and leave their clean mind to grow on its
> own. Support is welcome but without demands.
>
> This absurd question is always asked to people who think they are managing
> the universe. Osho says He is just a part of the universe. And that
> everything will go on beautifully without Him. No problem. And He will be
> happy that no religion, no successor proclaims himself when He is gone.
>
> These people should be avoided. They are the people who destroyed Buddha,
> Jesus, Krishna. Whatever He can do He is doing. There is no particular plan
> that has to be implanted in your mind. That creates fanatics. And each
> individual is unique. So no program can make humanity happy, because wearing
> others’ shoes, coats, which don’t fit. The whole humanity is looking
> clownish.
>
> The people who remain interested in work will be simply carrying the torch,
> but not imposing anything on anyone, either by sword or bread. A source of
> inspiration He will remain to us. And that’s what most sannyasins feel. And
> He wants us to grow on our own. Qualities like love, around which no church
> can be created, like awareness, which are nobody’s monopoly, like
> celebration, rejoicing, and maintaining a child-like fresh eyes. He is
> against knowledgeability. He wants people to know themselves, not according
> to someone else. And the way is in. There is no reason for any outer
> organization or church.
>
> Osho stands for freedom, individuality, creativity, and beautifying this
> earth. And living this moment, not waiting for paradise. No fear of hell and
> no greed for paradise. Just be here simply, silently and enjoy while you
> are.
>
> The whole philosia of Osho is that He is trying in every way to destroy all
> those things that later become slavery, authority groups and leaders, these
> are diseases which have to be abandoned completely.
>
Prem Buddha … you sound as though Osho told you all this in { exclusively } your ears .. and by the way what are you doing by conveying this ? looks like you have been in Osho’s
physical presense since the moment you were born …
love Dilruba
” Whatever Kranti and Shantam are doing is politics as well. ”
In a forum posting messages requesting people to discuss / gather for celebrations is just that.. Honestly dont know how this will become politics?
“What is the reason behind Kranti that he is engaging himself so much here? How can he say ‘Osho
would have never approved…’…. Who gives him the authority to know what Osho would have done or would have said, approved? Did he spent any close time with Osho? ”
When i say ‘ Osho would have never approved” it is just a way of saying what is happening does not seem to be according tio Osho Vision
No need that i should have spent time with Osho.. My love for Osho is enough .. Othewrise i will not even follow Osho if i cant understand Him
Do you think Osho asked these people to fight legal battles? If not then whose Authority these people are fighting legal battles? Did Osho still speak to them using Mediums? What authority you mean Prem Buddha?
Why there are so many conflicts between 4 Osho diciples who spent 20 years with Osho… Why are there so many view points if Osho had told everything in their ears..?
What you mean when you say ‘ that things are moving rightly ”
Why didnt you say this to OFI and team when they wanted to have legal battle to free Trademarks..that everything is alright..Please dont fight legal battles
Where were you at that time Prem Buddha?
Prem Buddha ..You neither seem to understand the feelings few Osho sannyasins who are sharing thoughts in a forum nor what politics is.. The basic requirement of politics is self interest..Neither Me Nor Shantam has any such thing…we are very ordinary people in love with Osho.. Out of pain we speak..If no one listens we will go on our way , meditate and take tea … It will be over..Nothing more…
Prem Buddha… You said ” Given clear instructions that–don’t cling to the past. Go on searching ”
I said ” Osho never would have approved this ‘ hanging on to the burden of past..”
In what way what i said wrong… What you said right Prem Buddha..?
As shantam ponted out …Your buttons are pushed..You need to relax…
Just read a quote of Buddha ..somone has printed out a quote from the web site ‘ the secret tv’….It was shocking..
The quote said ..” What you are is what you have thought “… with Buudha picture next to it..
Thats it.. they cut one part of Buddha said and quoted it out of context.. this quote is something equvalent to what a typical Positive thinking Guru would have said..
This is why we need Trademarks / Copyrights which poor Buddha didnt have …
To add…. The person who pasted this quote is a colleague of mine and she is using that as a re affirmation of the need to think Positively …because positive thinking shapes you..
Buddha reduced to Professor Buddha..
The actual quote goes like this
‘ All that we are is the result of what we have thought ‘
Prem Buddha wrote : “Osho did leave very clear instructions about his work to continue, many of which have never become public yet. ”
How do you know this, particularly the bit about instructions yet to become public?
ok guys. It has been fun. I love you all.
Prem Buddha is a virtual person and decided to move on with his life, which is quite busy.
Thanks for sharing.
In my opinion the universe is always perfect every moment and that
means EVERY MOMENT EVERY TIME.
And yes John there is always an exoteric movement around a master and an
esoteric group.
Your feedback has been helpful to me and: namaste!
Prem Buddha,
Thanks for sharing the words. Most probably taken from,” I leave you my dream”, and cleverness lies in the half truth. You have not posted that part where Osho mentions about the Inner circle and what they are suppose to do and what not.
Can you also tell me,” Why the official agency of His work is avoiding this video.” If someone posts this on Youtube, within a week, hunter dogs smell this and write to youtube about the copy right contents..
Those who think existence will support the work of their master, don’t lick the toes of the big publishing houses that too for an established author Like Osho.
This stupid trust in existence is more bogus than the trust shown by Americans on their currency.
the voice coming from hollow bamboo like Osho….He has always insisted to sell His books and voice recordings at cost price but with the best technology.
In the present scenario, by having the trust in Existence… inner circle should make available a complete series of His discourses in MP3 format with the best photos taken during that series @ 3 dollars. That is the cost price in the most generous way..trust in existence and fellow seekers..
Whatever Kranti and Shantam are doing is politics as well…
It can be..Dissident group politics. It can also be termed as Left wing politics…
Personally i don’t hate the word.
And with the eyes of a meditator, this subject can become the tool of sharing, when there is neither fear of hell nor the greed of heaven..
Osho did leave very clear instructions about his work to continue, many of which have never become public yet. So no worry for Kranti or Shantam Prem, that things are moving rightly.
Many of which have never become public yet….
OH MY God..soon we will have a new cassette from Bin Laden delivered at AL Jazeera!
Anthony are you in Deep meditation / wondering ?….missing your presence here … are you listening ?
Dilruba. I tend to write when I think I have a contribution to make. so far most of the ideas discussed here have been already discussed in other articles in this forum… so I do not feel so much like repeating myself endlessly.
Osho said he never cared about what happened after he was gone. If he let clear instructions to the inner circle no one knows… go ask neelam she should know.
the rest… we talked about it already.
Anthony … l get your point Dear … but l dont feel the need to ask Neelam / anybody about what Osho’s clear instructions …
as for me lam clear … for me jus listening to ‘ Him’ .. is enough … there are no agents between ‘ Him ‘ n me … this l was clear before l took an official sannyas … as Zarine said she wud not give me sannyas .. after l filled my sannyas form .. then she sent a message through Shantam for me to meet her … later she invited me to take sannyas [which was jus a formality for me ] the next week .. but sure l did like the name l got .. no regrets … jus sharing .. no arrogance meant in anyway to anybody ….
Why Zarine said she can not give you sannyas?
In my case i was just asked whether i would like to take sannyas during the visit to a Meditation Center or whether i would like to think about it..& take later… I said i dont have anything to think about and i am going to take.. I took… No regrets.. With Osho things can only become more beautiful..
This only she can answer … this is a mystery school for sure .. Kranti !
May be it is a way to test whether you are sure about your decison or you are taking it out of momentary impulse..
Osho said..If existence has chosen you who am i to refuse sannyas… Osho is Osho…
This is ‘ His ‘ mystery school .. Dear Kranti .. lam sure you do know that … Chareveti .. Chareveti …
Why Zareen said she can not give you sannyas?
I was thinking Kranti will ask this question?
Mystery school, it was sure and it will be also.
In the mystery school, one encounter the lower impulses, feel thankful that they are there and with the grace of Master, turns them into higher dimension, This is Chareveti Chareveti (move on move on).
As i was the witness of dilruba’s process, for Zareen too it was a jounrey of moving from lower to the upper levels..
What she could do in Dilruba’s case, as it was not a very big wall, it was easier to jump, unfortunately it could not happen with her colleague Neelam, because of her faminine tussle.
Human mind took even Master like Osho as granted, the way many wives of the old king did in the past used to do.
Whereas ordinary disciples were happy just to have the glimpse of the Master, many insiders were fighting who has the better room/office access to Him.
When compassion of the Master / existance becomes our right; shit happens!