New Locks and Old Keys – Osho

Below are paragraphs extracted from Osho’s “I Am the Gate” Chapter 8 – I am the gate (14 June 1971 pm in Bombay, India). They are from one of his earliest discourses in English, the politics might be transparent but so is the acute depth of logic.

“Each age has to devise its own methods, no old method can be helpful to you. You have changed, your mind has changed. The key fits the old lock but the lock has changed.

Sometimes it happens that humanity forgets that which it had previously known. Somewhere, THE BOOK OF THE DEAD, the Egyptian book, says, “Ignorance is nothing but forgetfulness.” Something which was known has been forgotten. Nothing is new, just something has been forgotten. When you  come to know it again, it appears new. Many keys are lost, many times — sometimes because there are no esoteric groups to preserve them. Esoteric groups can only be the preservers of keys, not of locks, because locks are with you. You understand it? Locks are with you — not with Buddha, not with Jesus. They have keys. They devise keys, keys that open many locks. These keys can be preserved by esoteric groups, but in the meantime the locks are changing.

You are not the same lock which Buddha opened. The same key exactly as it is will not do. If the same key can do as it is, then any ignorant person can use it. Then no wisdom is needed, anybody can use it. I can just give you the key, and you go and open the lock; you need no wisdom. This much is enough: that this is the key and that is the lock. But as the locks are changing constantly, the keys must be given to a group who is wise — to devise new keys that are always in tune with the locks.

The locks will go on changing. They will never be the same. So not only are dead keys to be preserved, but also the science for changing these keys whenever there is any change in the lock. That is preserved in esoteric groups. You cannot preserve it in books because the locks are not known. They will change, they will go on changing. No book can write about all these possibilities of locks, about all the combinations of locks. They will go on changing. The condition changes, education changes, culture changes, everything changes, so the locks become different. Howsoever the key is preserved, it will always be faulty in a way. It will not suit the lock.

So the key must be handed over to a living group of wise ones who can always change the key also. That is the difference between esoteric knowledge and exoteric tradition.

Exoteric tradition always carried the key without any reference to the lock. It continues to talk about the old key; it never notices that no lock is being opened by it. But the exoteric tradition consists of ordinary people such as members of the Christian church. The church carries the key. They know that this is the key which opened many doors in Jesus’ time. Their knowledge is right; their information is correct; of course this key has opened many locks. They carry the key, they worship the key, but now it opens no lock. They cannot devise other keys, they have no time to devise keys; they have only one key. They go on worshiping it, and if it cannot open a lock, then the lock is responsible. Then the lock must be faulty, then something is wrong with the lock, not with the key.

The esoteric group is always interested in the lock, not obsessed with the key. The exoteric group is obsessed with the key, but not interested in the lock at all. If it opens, it is good; if it does not open, you are responsible. The key is never responsible.

The exoteric tradition is always condemning the lock and worshiping the key. The esoteric group never condemns the lock, it always changes the key.

So I am struggling and devising keys that are, in a way, universal — not for a particular localized culture, but for the human mind as such.”


My proposition is that man is evolving at a faster pace than previously anticipated even by Osho. Remember the quickening? And what is going on with electronics?  When will be the time for new keys?

Vartan

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145 Responses to New Locks and Old Keys – Osho

  1. shantam prem says:

    “So I am struggling and devising keys that are, in a way, universal — not for a particular localized culture, but for the human mind as such.”

    After reading the product booklets, people have come on the conclusion, they don’t need the keys. They have number locks!
    so the question of preserving keys or asking for duplicate keys is not in picture any more.
    Has this made the life easy for the seekers?

    No, sir; they have lost the paper where number lock digits were written.

    Ants come when sugar is there. They fill their mouth and take monthly supply in one go.

  2. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    dear bodhi vartan

    this morning a smile came by, by cloud 9 as lokesh liked to see it

    saw in the cloud many friends searching their lost keys and looking at their lockets

    both
    non-existent
    and yet

    a smile came by
    in joy of a silence so alive one can not conceive how much…

    so addressing my gratitude for that smile what’s INSIDE and let me feel well the way i knew it from HOME

    to YOU

    madhu

    ps
    looking forward to ….what
    at the most i can say more aliveness of this kind….

  3. Arpana says:

    Varti said.
    ‘My proposition is that man is evolving at a faster pace than previously anticipated even by Osho. ‘

    Some evidence, scientific back up for this dubious claim please.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      I put this article together in response to Shantam going on about this or that not working, Pune3, therapy, Arun, etc.

      So if x is presented and is not being accepted then something is askew and I am looking for the source of the problem.

      To all intents today Osho’s work is not being accepted to any recognizable level and that is my scientific evidence. It’s not a claim, it’s the reality.

      • Arpana says:

        Dhanyam at Viha.

        Can you give us some factual info
        about the thousands of copies of Osho books being sold?
        The amount of interest and hits at Viha.
        How hugely sales of anything containing an Osho discourse have risen in the last ten years.

        Varti. You’re a good guy, but that’s Shantamspeak.
        Mini kangspeak.

        It’s true because you say it is for god’s sake.

        PS.

        My impression of the ashram is that the place is as busy
        as it was in Poona one, before the huge surge of
        visitors in 1980.

        How is that a failure?

        Quality, not quantity.

  4. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    —- and you know ? arpana (russian version) and bodhi vartan too

    one of the beautiful aspects of female may be

    SHE CAN WAIT

    and addressing that also to the sister called fresch
    this morning here had a fabulous sapphire kind appearance
    prose and poetry inclusive

    and also that unspeakable

    so
    have you all

    a beautiful day
    i am off on the bike
    to go for extraordinary ordinary dates and daily issues this way

    madhu

    • bodhi vartan says:

      “one of the beautiful aspects of female may be
      SHE CAN WAIT”

      The females used to be able to wait until the advent of contraception which somehow has interfered with their ability to wait for as long as they used to. Funny that.

      Sorry Madhu, but men can wait too. What are we waiting for, anyway?

  5. Fresch says:

    Varti, true: key does not fit the lock, at all.

    I wonder why people still throw stones at Sheela. Who killed whom? Who fucked osho’s girl friend? What kind of a man would do it to his friend? Not to even talk about your master. Who fucked all grass roots connections with people interested in meditation? Who fucked the “brand” osho? Ask any branding expert; all that has been done by so called “brand holders” are major mistake after an other. I do not even bother to go to the details. The fact that osho gets over a million “likes” in facebook, is because of somehow, even in spite of their strange actions, of all attempts to destroy any interest in him, to alienate him, to neutralize him.

    Who would be interested in ‘Jayesh international meditation resort’? Hello! And even with that massive “image marketing” they do manage to get more than 20-60 (unaware people not knowing where they are involved in) – real paying customers – for their “luxury” place. Amazing result. Do you know any other such “brand”? In addition, the final touch has been to make osho a cult leader who said something in public and did something else behind the doors, like giving everything to a Canadian cult leader – in secrecy.

    So, I would say, just give the job to anybody at all, give it to the beggar with no legs on the street, he will do the job so much better. Or just let the key sink in the bottom of the Arctic sea.

    MOD: FRESCH, NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY,
    “And even with that massive “image marketing” they do manage to get more than 20-60 (unaware people not knowing where they are involved in) – real paying customers – for their “luxury” place.”

    DO YOU MEAN they do manage OR they don’t?

  6. Fresch says:

    Madhu, are you “lady in waiting”?

    I am not.

    Mod, the one and only successful thing that pune management has been (with exclusive rights), have been to get over million “likes” for osho in facebook. I wonder how many millions it would have been if everybody had been co-operating…But even more so, how many of these people would have had interest and possibility then to really meditate, have energetic phenomena of osho?

    So, they did manage over million “likes” in facebook – in spite of themselves. And with these over million “likes”, if they manage to get ONLY 20-60 people to participate in their own place in pune, it can not exactly to be seen as successful “branding”. Can it?

    • bodhi vartan says:

      I hear all sorts of conflicting reports about Pune3 attendances. Some say there is ever hardly anybody in the place, others say it is busy… and my argument is, in the UK last year I have only met a handful of “new people” coming from Pune, and only once… which means that whatever they are doing over there… we are not seeing it on the ground or online. So where is it?

      • Arpana says:

        I met a young couple last year who loved the place.

        It sounds to me, I repeat, a lot like Poona one at the end of the 70s.

        The place wasn’t always heaving.

        I reiterate a point I made earlier. Nothing moves forward in a straight line.
        Steps forward steps back.

        I have noticed over the years, that the less people who are involved with sannyas, meditate, the more ready they are to gossip, function from surmise and assumption, and thatt by and large those who have gone into meditation don’t see everything in black and white terms.

        If you meditate the reference point comes closer to where you are. If you don’t you are surrounded by a thousand distractions near and far.

      • alokjohn says:

        The newbies keep away from us? I do not blame them.

        • bodhi vartan says:

          It is said that most tend to prefer earlier versions of themselves. So these avoiding newbies are only keeping away from their future navel-gazing selves.

          I don’t think the observation is true, anyway.

  7. shantam prem says:

    Fresch is spitting the fire.
    Only question i would like to know from her, What is the reason for hesitation to come forward and say, “Yes it is me, who has invested heavily in Osho and i ask for accountablity.”

    And then one can go further: Turiya, The chief lady of Path of love Or Anando, who was a lawyer and closest to Osho during his last months, running some kind of Correspondance Course in Inner Awareness; i mean Intelligent people who have dedicated their years; even they are not able to confront.

    Fact is Keys are not lost, they were thrown consciously.
    Vartan has asked me in the last string, “What is my problem.”

    And then he creates this string based on 1971 discourse. Time has shown what was done by Osho is undone by His very own.

    I don’t blame Satya Deva or Lokesh for this decline. They were wise enough to withdraw their energy; maybe with the gut feeling, “It is going to Crash.”

    • Lokesh says:

      Shri Shantam, withdawing from Osho didn’t actually happen in my life and if it has it has been a long gradual process. I was forced into situations that woke me up to some very hard facts and slowly I moved on, in the sense that Osho is no longer a guiding influence in my life, which is thanks in part to things I learned from spending several years around Osho.

      You, Shantam, see yourself as an Osho devotee and I fail to see that it is doing you much good. Had you met Osho, when it was still possible for that to happen, and come away with the bollocks you do here you’d have been kicked out of the ashram.

  8. Fresch says:

    Well, shantam, there are very practical reasons.

    One is that I do not want to put any water on my writing, so if I write in anonymity, I do not end up self-censoring. Also, my mood is different at different times; I do not know where I end up with. So, I like to keep the right to express my self – without humiliating processes like some of my friends have gone through.

    For also,to see where this ends, I am not fixed; I need to contemplate – honestly. Be free at least here.

    Also, because I do normal jobs, have normal customers, also some (even few) as my fb friends, I do not want to shock them with this appalling cult stuff more than I am doing right now with meditations. So, I do not want any of fanatics jumping on me on my fb, for or against. So, you see that not so much for me.

    Also, I do not have an agenda with anything I write and I would like to keep it that way.

    PS:
    Colour of your wall is this Steiner stuff or Osho-Al-Qaeda. Pls get one colour and get rid of the symbols – and scarf. I mean really.

  9. Lokesh says:

    Osho is making a very important point, especially in relation to the meditation techniques he devised. Yet, I do not entirely agree with what he says.
    The article opens with the following, ‘Each age has to devise its own methods, no old method can be helpful to you.’ I’m sure practitioners of Vipassana and Zazen would disagree with that statement.

    Osho draws the following conclusion, ‘These keys can be preserved by esoteric groups, but in the meantime the locks are changing.’ I don’t see it that the lock is changing, certainly not during the past few centuries. Willy the bard was asking ‘to be or not to be’ quite some time back.

    Esoteric groups have always existed as far as history can tell, but the key and the lock remain the same. In other words man’s situation on this planet remains the same in regards the true meaning of human existence etc.

    The teaching passed down through the ages could be summed up by saying that you are neither your body, mind or personality, which will all turn to dust one day soon, yet there exists an essential part of your being that is not of this world and hence one’s salvation lies in merging with that. Do not be identified with the body, the mind or personality, because in essence they are not who you really are, they belong to this world and the seed that gave you life came from the stars. Or, to put it another, more concise, way. God is life’s breath within us.

    I believe we fool ourselves into believing that we are evolving and progressing on this planet in general. One only has to watch the international news on TV to know that is not true. Of course, great advances have been made say in the field of medicine, but as far as our inner world goes it is simply not the case. In fact, more so-called primitive people are probably closer to what is real than we are…although maybe they just don’t know it. Recent scientific research suggests that something has changed in our brains during the past 2000 years but still we face the age-old questions about sense of personal identity, purpose meaning etc.

    Taking that into account I cannot agree with Vartan when he states, ‘My proposition is that man is evolving at a faster pace than previously anticipated even by Osho.’ Besides, Osho has a bit of a mixed track record when it comes to expectations and predictions. California still hasn’t fallen into the sea.

    And what would a man of Zen say to all this? There is no lock so you can throw that key away.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Good post, Loks (snigger).

      “Recent scientific research suggests that something has changed in our brains during the past 2000 years”

      That’s just physiology though.

      For some unknown reason we have changed behaviour about 12.000 years ago when we stopped feeding from what was available and started settling. There are various arguments for this, which I am not going to go into here but chronologically, considering the millions of years that we have been around, it is a very short period.

      The kind of change I am talking about is the kind that arises out of extreme-ish social changes. Recently in London we’ve had Atheist churches popping up (weirdos or not?). I also feel that austerities are contributing to these changes.

      Sannyas was predominately a middle-class movement. Yes there were some rich up-top and some smellies down-bottom but it was a middle-class phenomenon. With the disheartening middle class not only the money is getting less but the interests are changing. The locks are different.

    • satyadeva says:

      Re “the teaching passed down through the ages…God is Life’s breath within us”…

      This appeared in my email box today:

      “Irrespective of what science discovers or knows it always has another question – the insatiable drive to know more. So it is with everybody, particularly in respect of love.

      What is this love beyond understanding, beyond the grasp of the mind?

      It is life.

      So beyond your mind you are life. And when you real-ise life you realise what you are.

      Life is immortal, not mortal like the mind. Life is in every living thing so unlike the mind it is not individual, personal or particular. Life is always here, wherever here may be; because you are always here. And life does not change, move or waver. Only life-forms change and disappear. But life which animates them goes on unaffected.

      Every human being loves life. All endeavour to survive – unless the burden of their human nature is so intolerable that they destroy their own form, their own body. Even so, the life they are is unaffected.

      Life is the mystery behind the whole of existence –
      behind living and death.

      You in your reality are that mystery.

      And like mystery, there’s just no end to Thee.”

      (Extract from an extract from the Barry Long book title: ‘A Prayer For Life’)

  10. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    aahhh, FRESCH

    no lady – no waiting

    the word came to approach a QUALITY

    i deeply enjoying your posts of the day

    by the way

    do you know ang lee’s work of (film-) art called “tiger and dragon ?

    if not i deeply recommend to experience that
    so much more than “cinema”…

    it helps to relax as well as accurately contemplate on so many issues being
    part of the thread
    i got a love letter in the letter box today in print form
    and also i need some more space-time

    BUT i wanted to respond to my joy of reading your sharing
    and getting that on the way…

    no lady-no waiting – madhu

  11. Fresch says:

    What to do madhu, you are so fucking boring, that I did not came up with anything else.

  12. Anand Newman says:

    “The lock is already open. No need of any key” – Weekend workshop conducted by long time Osho Sannyasin Swami Anand Newman. For further details visit http://www.facebook.com/blablabla-=?22244446666.

    Just kidding..

    One day I like to see a thread in sannyasnews about how Sannyasnews started, hows the journey so far. Is it still the key for the lock it intended to open ( what ever the original purpose or mission was when it started). How it transformed etc. etc. Honestly, I see same people participating in it over and over again. ..Sorry folks. Appreciate you put so much time and energy in it. Don’t get me wrong.

    • Arpana says:

      ‘Honestly, I see same people participating in it over and over again.’

      What fucking rule is it that we, the regulars don’t know about, are breaking now.

      If you dis-a-fucking-prove of us, you might at least have the fucking courtesy to let us know first how we are supposed to behave.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Before it was “sannyas news” it was called “here and now” and created to inform uk sannysins about the goings-on after the ranch collapsed.

    • Parmartha says:

      Hi Anand.
      I started Sannyasnews in 1985 after the fall of the Ranch with the help of Prem Roger, and then with the help, in 1986, of a number of others, particularly Dharmen, Sahajanand, Prakrati, Veeten and Pari.
      It was, as Vartan says, called a bit later “Here and Now incorporating Sannyasnews.”
      My motives were various. Osho was on a world tour but he was endlessly being thrown out of countries or not allowed to land. No-one seemed to know what was happening. I was running a sannyasdisco at the time on the Archway rd, so together with Prem Roger we put out a sheet trying to keep sannyasins informed, as we had more than few contacts who had their ways of keeping tabs on the whole thing.
      Also at that time the Medina Suffolk property was to be sold, and receipts given to the central organisation. At the time I opposed this and felt the money should stay in England to start a new but smaller commune.
      So there was a “campaigning” element.
      I also felt that some major mistakes had been made on the Ranch, and whilst there was a need to move on, I also felt the mistakes needed airing, and needed to be learned from in a big way. So it seemed important to create a forum (Sannyas News) which was decidedly more democratic than sannyas had been up to that point, and where such things were not pushed under the table, or simply ignored. For example we always had “Letters to the Editor” as a feature.
      In the wake of Osho leaving the Ranch there was also a feeling of collapse. People still wanted to advertise their activities, and we acted as a conduit for that when the main organisation seemed to be in shock and paralysis. And many still wanted to see Osho videos, etc, and we used to advertise where one could get them, etc.
      Answer your question, Newman?

    • Parmartha says:

      Your link appears to have been taken down, Newman.

  13. Parmartha says:

    Osho says
    “Sometimes it happens that humanity forgets that which it had previously known”.

    I don’t feel 100 % sure of this proposition, but have an open mind. Can someone or other give a convincing example? Sometimes I think of such statements as sort of “new age”.

    Bit like Rousseau believing that there was a golden age in distant history, make no mistake that primordial man suffered a hell of a lot – even from tooth decay, abscesses, etc which would have killed off 40% of the population at least by the age of 25, however golden the age.

    Thanks, Lokesh, for your recent post, some sound stuff in it.

  14. Fresch says:

    what? what have some viha book sales to do with this?

  15. Fresch says:

    Book sales are nothing

  16. Fresch says:

    Varti, there you are right, things are happening anyway

  17. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    quite a russian version of going surfing down THE DRAIN

    what a pity

    but i have been warned that’s true

    madhu

  18. shantam prem says:

    “Books sales are nothing”
    Ma Fresch

    Checking Osho’s work through books sales; As if He was a self-help guru, Dale Carnegie’s younger brother, who got married with L Ron Hubbard’s Sister!

    There are people living in gaga land, who check sannyas barometer through youtube likes!

  19. shantam prem says:

    Vartan and Arpana,
    If you pray to your God for me to win some amount in Euro Lottery, i surely will finance your trip to Pune.
    As a first timer visitor, i am sure sincere seekers like you will feel as if in Lotus Paradise.
    I have repeated quite often, two weeks there and two weeks somewhere else on same amount of budget can show the difference in quality of life and meditation.

    It is like ruins tell how strong once the fort was!

    Those who have seen the hustle and bustle of life; it can be a teary affair, otherwise Sehr Gut!

  20. shantam prem says:

    My reverence for Osho is not because i believe he is some kind of God Phantom, the messiah or prophet, but an Enlightend Master who through his words and creation gave to humanity much more than he got something in return.

    The unconditional giving and compassionate heart who did perform software surgeries in the collective human. It is really not His problem that His super speciality hospital is serving only cough, cold and head ache!

    As i understand, Master has gone and gone for ever from the pulls and pushes of this earth.
    Only through His vision we can feel him in our heart.

  21. Fresch says:

    Osho is just really messing me totally to the verge.

    Today I felt lonely, but also did not want to have company either. I wanted to get rest from thinking about meditations, this sannyas grab etc. So, I decide to go to the movies, of course. I wanted to pick up something romantic; also for encouraging myself more open to that direction instead this heavy star watching stuff. I looked for the movies and saw “Her”, a story of a man writing love letters as his work in Los Angeles in the future. Perfect, I thought.

    So, I went to sit there and there was also one man sitting as well alone next to me. Movie began.

    I could not believe it, but the movie is an osho movie, the whole thing. In the end they quote osho directly. That was when I got it for sure. I will not tell you more, because all of you should really see it. I went there to get rid of any osho/meditation etc thoughts, let go of this shit and instead find the mood to find a husband…and there he, osho, was on the fucking screen.

    The final touch was that when the movie was in the end, the man who had been sitting there stood up for leaving. And only then I recognized him being the most successful movie producer in my country.

    So, I had a movie date with him and osho.

    I went home and looked who are the director and producer.
    It’s Spike Jones (Being John Malkovich).

    So, tonight I really love you all, thanks for sharing all this.

    And osho does not seem to go anywhere at all, even if I try hard.

  22. Fresch says:

    And when I say they quote osho, it really is something nobody else had said. Not any “Buddha, dalailamaoradietc stuff”, also it’s written IN the story, the sannyas story. I could not believe it.

    Doors are open, no key is needed, Varti.

  23. shantam prem says:

    End result of last 15 years of Fading Sannyas Saga-
    New locks, old keys!
    Neighbours are happy, parents are happy, religions are happy; people who are covering villages on their bicycle for duplicate keys are also doing brisk business!

  24. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    inter-personal reality has many sides by now
    surpassing any fictions
    (the latter a heart can answer while starving
    and we don t like to LISTEN and even less like to change or maybe
    are not capable any more)

    to include
    osho
    into that is understandable

    very much so
    but brings me to that
    guys here and women also cynically

    called “the crying-game”

    i am not crying so much as it is imagined by others though

    and the character of postmodern GAMES
    that’s another story

    as well as to be challenged to ponder about
    what is LEELA

    i would like to address that to your capacity of compassion – friends
    as well, as i feel challenged my capacity for compassion for myself as for others
    same same same –
    when i am seemingly on the “reviever” side of feedback lines

    love
    unadressed-adressed

    evening prayer
    from madh

    MOD: MADHU, HALF OF THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED OUT AS IT’S FAR OFF-TOPIC.

  25. Fresch says:

    True, madhu, you are not in “Crying game”. I am in Hitchcock’s “The Birds’s”; there is a granny stalking me and I do not find the key to the door.

  26. Young sannyasin says:

    “When will be the time for new keys?”
    It’s already time for new keys,from some years already…..they are here and there,unfortunately mostly in unconscious hands….

    • satyadeva says:

      I’m not sure what “new keys” actually means. Presumably, it’s nothing to do with the old sannyasin prerequisite, ‘nookie’? Although the way Shantam’s going on about it, perhaps it does…

      Could someone explain, please? Eg, young sannyasin, could you give an example or two of such “new keys,,,in unconscious hands”? Sounds rather ‘onanistic’ – but surely not?

  27. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    sorry fresch -

    sorry
    i really know how that feels to be stalked -

    sometimes better to stay INSIDE then

    madhu

  28. Parmartha says:

    Vartan,
    thought you being Greek might have some insight in the context of lost knowledge, into the the Mysteries celebration at the Temple of Demeter at Eleusis.
    The history of the temple spanned some 2 thousand years. Greek Initiates were supposed to include Homer, Plato, Sophocles and Pindar, etc. In the Roman period it is thought that Cicero and Marcus Aurelius were initiates.
    The ceremony as you probably know climaxed with the drinking of a secret potion, the Kykeon. It created a certain transfiguration
    which some initiates claimed was the main psychic event of their lives.
    Everyone involved was sworn to secrecy so the “recipe” of this potion was not known, and did not survive the destruction of the temple by Christians in 400AD.
    I don’t think much of Wasson’s view that the ingredient of the potion was ergot. Seems unlikely at that time.
    Do you have any ideas about the “lost” knowledge that must have been known, as to what the ingredient of such a powerful potion was?

    • bodhi vartan says:

      In terms of “lost knowledge”, what has been lost (to the modern psychonauts) is that initiation which included the taking of drugs, only happened “once” in a persons life and it was part of a whole process of catharting and the undergoing of various processes finishing with the kykeon drinking. It is unlikely to have been a hallucinogen due the numbers of people involved. Can you imagine thousands of people off their heads. (Even if it was, it was more likely to have been a mushroom than ergot which would have been impossible to control dosage.) I personally think it was aconite.

      The once in a lifetime experience was supposed to be life changing whereas the repetitive and casual use of drugs diminishes the efficacy.

      Machines were also used in the temples to lower wooden statues (or a priest) from the ceiling in smoke filled underground rooms to heighten the experience.

      This of Heron in Alexandria but similar machines have been found in mainland Greece

      The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

      The Necromanteion of Ephyra
      http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/1235225

  29. Fresch says:

    So, please madhu, write your own stuff..if only once here. Anything inspirational, anything of your own entire perception, experience etc…here… it could be a key for you to get INSIDE OF YOUR SELF. And perhaps interact from there. Here at SN, directly.

  30. Fresch says:

    “Her” won the best original script in Oscars. I tell you it’s an osho movie, you are crazy if you do not go to see it.

    Perhaps Jeyesh & co wanted to raise money for Hollywood films with their private companies and were involved sponsoring already this movie. If so, I take back all my words and make an open apology for my ignorance. You cannot even imagene about it but you know it rightaway when you see the film.

    Key is what is consciousness.

    You will love it, it’s hilarious.

    • Lokesh says:

      Fresch declares, Key is what is consciousness?
      Consciousness is yet another word that has merged with mainstream parlance, like awareness and spiritual, but if one asks someone what they mean when using such words a red question mark appears in the centre of their foreheads.

      So, Fresch why is the answer to what is consciousness a key? A key to what lock exactly? And who or what is it that will turn the key in the lock? And by unlocking the lock what happens?

    • bodhi vartan says:

      I just had a quick look at “Her”. It looks like a Real Doll scenario for the 2014 lonely…
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealDoll

      I tried to watch a documentary about the real doll phenomenon once but I nearly cut my wrists from sadness. I have no idea how you can find humour in people’s loneliness. The idea might sound good in theory but it is pathetic in practice.

  31. Fresch says:

    Also, if you saw movies “Holy smoke” and “Therapies, therapies”, there were a lot of reference to osho..

    but “Her” is something else

    the key

    • Lokesh says:

      Fresch, you obviously enjoyed the movie but what is so important about the references to Osho? What differance does that make to anyone reading the comments on SN and people in general, or yourself for that matter?

      Nobody is denying that Osho had many worthwhile things to say but the fact that Hollywood produces a movie with some references to Osho will not have an effect on global consciousness. After all, actors in Hollywood movies have been making references to dope smoking and blowing joints on the big screen for decades, yet the USA has people doing 35 year jail terms for possesion of as little as one gramme of marijuana.

      Now you think its a big deal a few referances to Osho in a movie. Does this strengthen your faith in Osho because the mainstream is somehow recognizing the worth of using smething about him in a commercial endeavour? Your excitement about such developments only emphasizes that you are at best entertaining a world view thay runs about as deep as a watered down coat of orange paint.

  32. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    thank you, fresch

    has been indeed stupid approach from my side

    as an aries born i tend to run against walls sometimes
    what to do?
    as i grow older
    i see the good as the bad in that

    madhu

    • Lokesh says:

      Does this mean that over 500,000,000 people will be running up aganst walls sometimes for the rest of their lives because they are born under the sign of Aries? Madhu, could you please share what exactly the benefits of running up against walls sometimes are? A lot of people wearing head bandages are awaiting your enlightening response.

  33. Fresch says:

    You are ok, madhu.

    Lokesh, that’s the beauty, it does not have to have reference to osho at all or to any person. Because what he says (and what is said) in the end of the movie belongs to everybody, osho does not own it, even he did “own” it.

    And it is original osho stuff. he does not need to “sign” it.

    I am totally blown away by it.

    I need to set this consciousness to sink some more…for obvious reasons.

    But I will try something around it later.

  34. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    can’t post you my (response) laughter – lokesh
    and thank you for finding such brilliance in asking

    well, that last sentence of mine is not connected with masochism in either ways
    more with the pink floods version
    or the rocky HORROR picture show

    both – by the way – are in updates very well visited even by the younger generation

    madhu

  35. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh seems to be one of those uneducated ones who are very proud of that what they know and simply condemn what they can not.
    Surely, he can be good for DJ, one does not need to be studious of any kind.
    The man who must have read sometime about sun signs columns in newspapers will not hesitate even to bring Osho for his condemnation of Astrology; one of the best tools to understand human software installed by nature.

    Some villager living in city to his doctor, “I don´t believe, this little tablet will help. How it knows, where I have the problem?”

    • Lokesh says:

      The Chuddie King declares, ‘Surely, he can be good for DJ, one does not need to be studious of any kind.’

      Wrong again, oh wise one. Maybe you should get behind a pair of decks some time and find out that you have a lot to learn on that level. DJing is an art form that requires years of study, patience, knowledge and a certain flair to be able to come up with what a very spontaneous situation demands

      That is something an astrology chart will not be able to help with, along with a million other things in life. Of course the planets affect us, the moon might feed on our psychic energy but I prefer to deal with what life comes up with by employing the life skills I have under my belt. Most times I hear an astrologer’s logic, when applied to what is haappening in someone’s in life, it sounds like somethng I don’t need to listen to.

      Different strokes etc, but not mine and I do not need Osho to back up how I see things, although it is good to hear from him that I am not the only one who views astrology and various other forms of divinaion as being props for those who lack significance in their lives.

      Chuddie King goes on to conclude that astrology is, ‘one of the best tools to understand human software installed by nature’. All that says to me is that he missed a lot of other valuable tools when visiting the hardware shop.

      Besides, I find myself asking, how has this man used his ‘best tool’ to overcome anything in himself? Answer: the tool either does not work or he does not know how to use it. A voice whispers behind me, yes, well, that’s because the moon is in conjunction with Uranus.

      • satyadeva says:

        Well, I agree with Shantam re the value of astrology. I’ve found it an extremely useful tool to shed light on otherwise almost incomprehensible issues and inner conflicts. Similar holds good for others I know.

        Just one example: How could Liz Greene (one of the top astrologers) possibly provide a detailed, 100% accurate insight into my family background, including analyses of the character and nature of both my parents, their relationships with each other and myself – without any indication from me, other than the birthchart she’d already drawn up, based on the day, year, time and place of my birth? And all this within a minute or two of meeting me? It was simply mind-blowing – and not only ‘interesting’, but very useful information.

        So I disagree with both Osho and you on this one, Lokesh. MInd you, it’s got to be done by someone who knows what they’re doing and has a certain depth to them.

        • Lokesh says:

          Yes, SD, I hear you and there is no denying that astrology charts can be of use. It is just that I have never personally been attracted to it and see that people also use astrology to label and somehow apply some logic to a sometimes chaotic world.
          An old friend of mine died not lng ago. Ra Uru Hu, who was the creator of the Human Deseign System. Many people build their lives aroud Ra’s system. I have always viewed it as a brilliantly conceived scam. Many would disagree with me, but what a boring world it would be if we all agreed on everything.

          • bodhi vartan says:

            shantam prem says:
            >> Astrology; one of the best tools to understand human software installed by nature.

            Human software??? More like soft in the head. Astrology is on the same level as haruspice. And as for helping people… alcohol helps people, but you wouldn’t recommend it as medicine to your loved ones.

  36. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    send a PS in form of a Y

    you – lokesh – as a famous DJ – for sure knows how to scrabble that

    the O

    you can leave anyway…
    and when an ultra multiversity of astrology “terminals” in human form end up with bandage
    they mostly had a too much grab in the dope and drug pot
    that you know as well i presume

    maybe ONE reason of many that the messages of some of the evergreens
    so to say
    have not been replaced yet totally
    because one is not finished with it in understanding AND response

    madhu

  37. Lokesh says:

    Madhu says, when an ultra multiversity of astrology “terminals” in human form end up with bandage
    they mostly had a too much grab in the dope and drug pot
    that you know as well i presume.

    Well, you can presume what you wish, Madhu, but, not for the first time, I do not really understand what it is you wish to convey. Did you perhaps go to the same school of metaphoric language as Shi Shantam? What is it that prompts people to avoid plain language if they sincerely wish to be undestood? One can only wonder…one of those mysteries to be lived ec.

  38. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    anubodh – lokesh – and the witty granny too – posing with the enigma machine

    what to say – about the just one example of spying games of world wars like I – II and the forth-ongoings -

    amusing ? here ? really ?

    english warlords proudly presenting their spying game team for their allies as
    “geese that laid the golden eggs without cackling”
    started “gardening” as they called it by manipulating information

    and yes in that kind of war-literature there are also some hints for “key” and algorithms and krytographis

    but why the fuck is that posted here?

    please lighten me up
    if you can

    madhu

  39. Fresch says:

    Madhu, you are making yourself such a victim.

    I just saw some photos of two extremely beautiful young women, who both of them have seen me kind of “mother figure” (me being a grandmother). I am still perhaps too young for that. But honestly, I look at them and it’s only just an honour..

  40. Ashok says:

    “New Locks and Old Keys”

    Yes, indeed, Bodhi Vartan, I fully understand the meaning of your thread topic, after being sent a synchronistic sign, yesterday in NZ. This time it was not on a bus as before, but in one of the Gents’ toilets, at Auckland International Airport.

    I was caught in a queue for one of the individual cubicles. By the time I got to be first in line, the situation was starting to become a little serious and desperate. However, as before on the bus in Durban, SA, a song (an old key) came to me to relieve the tension (and open a new lock). I sang out loud, ’5-4-3-2-1, dah, dah dah, dah dah, dah dah, 5-4-3-2-1′, (I can’t remember who made it ….came out sometime late 60′s I believe). Anyway, this little ditty also involved pointing at each of the closed cubicle doors in turn with the index finger on my right hand………would you believe it?……just as I sang the final ’1′, right on cue one of the doors opened. Some of the other people in the queue laughed out aloud when they saw this, and in fact one bloke about halfway down said gleefully, “It worked…awesome!”

    Later, when I had completed my morning deep bowel meditation movement and was on my way out of the Gents, I heard somebody else singing the same song I had sung. So I looked around and saw that it was the bloke who had congratulated me on my success earlier. Unfortunately, however, it did not work for him. I therefore concluded that he could not be one of the ‘chosen’ ie an Osho Sannyarse-in-first. In a moment of compassion, I considered letting him in on the secret. However, the tight taut look he had on his face dissuaded me from approaching at that moment, as it appeared he had more pressing and urgent matters on his mind! As many Osho therapists would say “He was not ready yet for the message!”

  41. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    dear satyadeva

    the history channel was the first i connected with BEFORE posting a comment yesterday
    found then and there lots of expressions and labels of “gardening” as well as religious “speak” so to say like “the great lord’s mission”.
    my question why is still not answered
    but some light indeed already fell on it.
    if you or i wouldn’t be alive to post here-now
    we both don’t know i would say.
    what warlords, their mission-speak and methods and technologies have to do here
    i still would like to question.
    and thank you for your response

    madhu

  42. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    well, fresch

    in female-to-female “side kicking” (those are your words the other day)
    you seem to be quite expert too here. in germany we have the teens when bullying each other
    they sometimes scream
    YOU VICTIM YOU !
    then meant for the rest of the gang to declassify the so addressed -
    well
    we are in a grown-up circle here
    are we ?

    madhu

  43. Fresch says:

    Why are you so nasty here, instead of this bullshit, why you do not do dynamic every morning? It would be easier for all of you to get closer to ”get the message” like Ashok wrote. Have you not seen how popular and many ”likes” dynamic gets? One would think there would be a queue.

    • satyadeva says:

      Fresch, for me and perhaps most or even all of the middle-aged and upwards here, dynamic lost its power a long. long time ago. I did it ‘religiously’, most days of the week, with fanatical zeal for around 16 months(because I needed it badly, it was lifting me out of years of dysfunctional depression, gradually apparently relieving even lifelong burdens) before going to India, where, expecting to reach ever deeper levels of catharsis and ever-higher levels of ‘high’, I was acutely disappointed to find that only the ‘silent’ mode was allowed in the ashram, due to complaints from neighbours. And this left much to be desired, frankly. Even ‘Bhagwan’ recognised I needed “much catharsis” – but where, ffs?!!

      This lack of proper cathartic facilities was a major handicap during those 9 -plus months and, for whatever reason (perhaps including a dose of hepatitis) even after returning to London I was never to enjoy similar benefits from the dynamic process ever again, although I was by no means ‘clear’, very far from it in fact. I certainly tried, as it had always been a sort of never-failing therapeutic ‘crutch’, even a ‘magic pill’, before eventually giving up, realising I was wasting my time and energy.

      So, no, Fresch, daily dynamic (or even other cathartic modes) isn’t necessarily the ‘answer’, it’s essentially just an early stage or a – hopefully – useful tool if and when required in crisis. One has to find other means…After all, that’s what ‘the spiritual life’ is all about, innit?

      • Arpana says:

        SD.
        When I’m frazzled I find five minutes gibbberish followed by five minutes breath watching for a few days usual gets my feet back on the ground.

        I’ve done a lot of dynamic, and I wonder if that plays a part in the efficaciousness ( Is that a word?) of the gibberish and breath watching, and also remaining totally in it for a short amount of time is easier, and that I am sure helps.

        MOD: ACCORDING TO THE DICTIONARY efficaciousness IS DEFINITELY A WORD, ARPANA!

      • satyadeva says:

        PS: As I said, during that ‘dynamic’ period, I harboured dreams that this was all I’d ever need to put me on a more or less permanent ‘high’, that it was the ultimate ‘answer’, or at least the best possible key to open the ‘door of life’.

        Utter delusion of course, not least because, as we’ve all surely discovered by now, it’s just ain’t about ‘getting high’, it’s far more complex and convoluted, far more demanding than that.

        Which leads me to the theme of ‘disappointment’, that it’s clear there’s a fair number of people who thought or were somehow led to believe that sannyas was essentially about ‘getting high’, about ecstasy and so on, perhaps including living happily ever after with others of similar levels of ‘high’ attainment, of ‘peace and love’ ever after…

        As that bubble has burst, it’s left some (or many?) in disillusionment, even anger, grief – in a word, depression. Hence a reflex to hit out at something, someone, who’s led us up the garden path, only to leave us stranded in a desert, gazing at an ever-receding mirage on the psycho-spiritual horizon…

        Thus people target gurus/teachers/masters for their ‘deception’, or even those i/c of the Poona ashram for not allowing it to remain exactly as it was in ‘the good old days’.

        Does this ring true for anyone, or am I exaggerating here?

        • Arpana says:

          Yes. Very much so.

          I found this, this morning.

          Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn’t nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand.

          Aldous Huxley

        • Lokesh says:

          I reckon in my case the emphasis moved from getting high to enquiring who or what is it that wants to get high. It has taken me decades to embrace who I am just as I am. What a relief!

      • Lokesh says:

        Good post SD. I was once hooked on Dynamic. Could not face the day before a good catharsis. I did it religiously for over 4 years, sometimes twice a day. I have no need for it today. If I need to let off steam I can always nip out and chop up a few logs. I have one friend who just turned 60. I call him the Hobbit because he lives in the hills and rarely comes out. He does dynamic every morning at dawn and is a very cool guy. He’s also a bit of an extremist. He’s either enlightened or drunk and stoned. He has been clean for some time now and is positively shining.

  44. Fresch says:

    Also, where are all these loving, creative zen people, who “got the message”, spreading their fragrance? They should be able to just fill this space with such understanding and beauty. Or is it “I do not have any words”? But here is a photo of my cat, here is a photo of flower…?

    • Arpana says:

      ‘Also, where are all these loving, creative zen people, who “got the message”, spreading their fragrance? ‘

      You need to reread your zen stories.
      Zen masters are blunt and straightforward are they not?

      Sannyas isn’t about being nice all the time.
      Authenticity is the way.

      Read Notes of a Golden Childhood. He was hardly nice.
      If he was posting here and behaved as he did before he was ‘enlightened’ he would drive us all nuts.
      He was cussed. Bloody minded. Competitive.
      Always determined to have the last word.

      • Lokesh says:

        Didn’t Osho once say, ‘God is not your uncle because he isn’t nice’?

        • Arpana says:

          . And you can see it in Jewish scriptures; in the TALMUD God says, “I am a very angry God, I am a very jealous God. I am not nice. I am not even your uncle” — speaking exactly in the Jewish style: “I am not your uncle.” This God is very primitive — anger?

          Osho.
          From Darkness to Light
          Chapter #11
          Chapter title: Science and religion — two petals of the same rose
          11 March 1985 pm in Lao Tzu Grove

          • bodhi vartan says:

            The Hebrew god is based on some Sumerian angry thunder god. When they “borrowed” books on their way back from Babylonian captivity they didn’t realise that there were other chapters…

            Unlucky us.

        • satyadeva says:

          You’d have thought people might have cottoned on to something like this, given the prevalence of suffering-inducing factors inherent in being a human being on this planet…

          Sure, life itself, ie the very feeling of being alive is good, and who really wants to give up and die? If we’re in any sense ‘awake’ we can appreciate what a miracle it all is, not least our own very existence…

          But I guess that against that background of ‘good’ the adversities that everyone faces are there to remind us to look a bit/a lot deeper than surface conditions, that’s if we’re serious about the truth…Otherwise, it’s a case of ‘if only avenue’, ‘why me?’ and endless variations of such complaints….

          • bodhi vartan says:

            Much of the suffering is inflicted by others. As they say, hell is other people, and is a totally unacceptable state of affairs.

            Personally I no longer care and I leave it to the youth of today to deal with it from here on.

            • satyadeva says:

              Well, yes, but that statement begs quite a large number of questions, doesn’t it?!

              I mean, we’re talking fundamental human ignorance here, including core beliefs and values gleaned from the religions, political systems, variations on ‘the law of the jungle’ re economic set-ups and socio-economic hierarchies, status systems etc. etc etc.

              And what about sickness, old age, disease and death? No one escapes these, except, if they’re lucky, disease, or old age, if life or others contrive to kill them early.

              Then there’s all the emotional stuff – what a bloody minefield that is, eh? Wherever it comes from, we all have to face it and discover the truth about it all. Hopefully getting behind it to that apparently endless space where there’s nothing (except Life)…

              The point I’m making is that in the physical reality we inhabit and the way we’ve turned out, suffering is built into the very nature of our lives, yet despite all these negatives, we know from our daily experience that life itself is good. But that alone won’t ‘save’ us, we have to dig deeper to find the truth of it all, which surely ultimately means ‘becoming one with Life itself’, doesn’t it?

              • bodhi vartan says:

                SD, you chose to ignore the suffering inflicted by humans and went down the natural path.

                To start with, there is no natural path. We have become too-human and are currently standing at the doorway of the trans-human.

                What you call “the physical reality we inhabit and the way we’ve turned out, suffering is built into the very nature of our lives,” are just mechanisms that need to understood. When you start from the zero-point you can only go so-high… but if you start from a minus-point the climb will be longer.

                We occupy this body in order to experience it, and the world around it. The rest is just luck, though the brain is looking for, and finding, plans and patterns that simply are not there.

  45. Fresch says:

    Satyadeva, i love your Dynamic story. Thanks

  46. Fresch says:

    Arps, “efficaciousness” is so funny and gibberish is such God ankle..lovit

    MOD: God ankle? PLEASE EXPLAIN, FRESCH!

  47. Fresch says:

    It was a joke, gibberish.i was using my own mistakes, self irony

  48. Fresch says:

    I did dynamic for 5 years, 2-4 times a week…I am not sure what it did to me, last couple of years I just wanted to move my body in improvising and meditate and catharsis was more some creative moving, and not catharsis actually – one old friend came always to sing in catharsis. That was fun. Also I loved to sit or lie down in silence and just float in that feeling of between sleep and being awake.

    Now what I would most love is to do some free dancing and some meditation with good music and friends in the morning. People could cathart who feel the need, or just move the body, use any voice or anything…And then sit for few minutes in the end. I would love that.

    Thanks for the dynamic stories, arps and lokesh

  49. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    dear bodhi vartan, dear satyadeva

    your voices are needed here this morning
    so as to not leave it all to the human enhancement and human design projects going on
    the big market place of wellness products
    producing bodies as human designed strata, fake “yogis and yoginis” seemingly beautiful, but with no heart, but efficiency fitness to the max
    (including hereby children designed of the same styling who look wild but are NOT.. though cunning as cunning can be like their elders)

    somebody reminded us here about Devadasi

    i don’t remember who that was – was it you, bodhi vartan ?
    but her i remember as one (of the many) in seemingly ancient times
    to EMBODY the soul of the work – and sorry for the description, i just now have no better words -
    that kind of quality rarely to find nowadays to meet
    body, mind, soul in harmony and the giving and taking in a dance where the one is merging with the other
    some call it love then
    but in fact a word as such that does not have
    but a finger pointing to the moon, to use a metaphor

    the prerequisite needed is
    what i call honouring the other instead of combat
    otherwise that simply cannot happen

    so simple is that

    it felt good for me – bodhi vartan – that you mentioned heraclitus’s ways of seeing the rivering
    and also at that point coming to the view that the “glass is half full and not half empty”
    and thank you for that sharing

    while otherwise the look in a gents toilets as well as a toilet for ladies
    be they in new zealand or elsewhere doesn’t work for me

    i knew many here who have been busy with dynamic for years
    but that didn’t take care of their violent approach to others and life itself

    and who wonders in turbulent times (waters of rivering) these days

    yes – it’s so true we are deeply interdependent of each other
    and yes it’s true
    love
    IS
    missing

    madhu

    • bodhi vartan says:

      It wasn’t me who mentioned Devadasi, but Upnita in the other thread. And it wasn’t me who said that the glass is half full. It was me who said that if the glass looks half full, is because the glass is too big… but it’s the thought that counts. I still have no idea about the content of your posts… I still try tho.

  50. Upnita says:

    In Esoteric School of Tarot Symbology….the Tarot Cards are Archetypes and are also called Keys. For example, the Mother of Water or Queen of Cups is considered to be a the key in the keyhole.
    “The keyhole is the door to the connectedness of all things. A hole is whole. It is holy…she is a guardian of the threshold, a key to emotional understanding. The keyhole is bell-shaped because she uses the power of resonating bell-like sound to help deeper areas of consciousness…bringing out the truth..a white light floating in the abyss of cosmic sea…a brilliant light in the radiant darkness…primal force housed within the physical body…”

    The Inner World has been negleted …or seen as unreal…or being used nowadays for propaganda, advertising and greed….

    When Osho was in University (or college) he used to have bells around his ankles to remind him of being awake and not forget the Real.
    One is being conditioned to fall asleep and deny the beauty of Life. We have forgotten that we have forgotten….
    Archetypes …gods and goddesses evoke darkness and shadows if ignored…like in everyday life if we ignore the ones we love .
    Life is not being seen as sacred..the locks can only be open with the Key of Love….
    Osho was such a master at opening locks! but one moves on ..from childhood to maturity and not needing the same lesson and when we find ourselves connected to All things, what then do we do?
    We keep learning and in the heart there is that connection..
    Love you All
    Upnita

  51. Parmartha says:

    Thanks Upnita, a considered post.
    I think finding keys to unlock human beings, and I include myself in this, is really difficult. Osho and others have found a few keys, but then again they dont work for everyone and people often project that they will.
    For example dynamic is a good tool, but I have often heard those who benefited greatly from it, then project that it will be “good for anyone”. Not true in my view.
    Teachers are sadly only judged by their failures to unlock their disciple’s double binds, and other psychological stuff that they have to leap.
    Jesus failed with Judas, Rumi with a number of his leading disciples who turned to murder Shams, Osho with Shiva and Sheela, Gurdjieff with Ouspensky, and so on.
    I have sometimes thought that teachers are too “eager” to embrace those who wish to be their disciples, and the disciples are not ready. I suppose it is a moot point, when is anyone ever ready!

    • Arpana says:

      Buddha says — and you can see the sincerity of the man — that “A man who has entered the path, srotapanna, who has entered the stream that leads to the ocean, is millions of times more respectable than anybody else, just because he has entered the path in search of the truth. He has not found, but just the urge, just the effort, the first step, and he has become millions of times more honourable than all your respectable generals, kings, emperors and world conquerors.

      “The person who has reached the point from which he will not turn back, anagamin, is millions of times more honourable than the srotapanna, than the one who has entered the stream. And the man who has become enlightened, who has become a Buddha, is millions of times more honourable than the person who has reached the point of no return.”

      The point of no return is something worth understanding.
      Many people start the search and then drop out. It is arduous, it is moving into the unknown; nobody knows whether there is anything like enlightenment or just a fiction created by a few people like Gautama Buddha. Perhaps they are not lying, perhaps they themselves are deceived — who knows? There is no guarantee.

      So many start, but very few remain. Most of them return to the world. Sooner or later, finding that they are going into an unknown territory without a map, without any guide, they start feeling crazy. Because the whole world is going in a totally different direction, and they are left alone. Their whole strength was in the crowd. Alone, a thousand and one doubts arise. Alone, one starts feeling that millions of people cannot be wrong, “And I am alone, thinking that I am right — I must be getting crazy.”

      Anagamin is one who has come to a point from where he cannot return. He is not enlightened but he has seen, from far away, the possibility. He has not reached the peak; he is still in the dark valley. But he can see the sunlit peak; it is a reality, it is not a fiction. Now there is no force in the world which can make him go back.

      Buddha says, “But the one who has become enlightened is millions of times more honourable than the person who has reached the point of no return.” And here is the sincerity of the man — he says: “The man who has transcended Buddha hood, who has gone beyond enlightenment, is millions of times more honourable than anyone who is enlightened.” He is not claiming that he has gone beyond; he is simply saying “I can see from my place that faraway star.” And he was the first to see that faraway star: beyond enlightenment.

      Osho.

      Beyond Enlightenment
      Chapter #17Chapter title: The point of no return
      19 October 1986 pm in

      • Lokesh says:

        Arps, that’s a good quote, altough I am uncertain why you decided to post it at this juncture.

        • Arpana says:

          Parmartha’s remarks reminded me of the phrase, ‘So many start, but very few remain. ‘

          I’m sure I’ve read somewhere, possibly not from Osho.

          One in a million steps into the stream.
          One in a million stays in the stream.
          One in a million starts to move up the stream,
          and only one in a million reaches the source of the
          stream.

          • Parmartha says:

            Good quote Arps.
            Especially as it were it is Osho quoting Buddha. I cant believe these guys did not think about who they were attracting more than it seems. Certainly the Buddha here gives fuller public consideration to it than I have seen elsewhere.

            • Arpana says:

              I have wondered if he did not call the many to him, and continues to do so, to ensure he gets those who will work on themselves.

              If you accept the notion he is about getting us to move, maybe Sheela was a bigger, more mature individual when it was over, than she was when she started. ( Pure speculation obviously. )

              • Arpana says:

                And for those who work on themselves, dealing with people with sannyas names who don’t , is part of the journey, and maybe those who don’t work on themselves will get provoked into doing so.

    • Lokesh says:

      Jesus failed with Judas? Parmartha, that is somehow missing the point of JC’s last stand. I don’t think JC succeeded or failed with Judas. Judas played his part in that fantastic story, as JC knew he would.

      Much of the New Testament has an esoteric side and although I am familiar with some of it I am not so up on the inner story of what Judas’s role was meant to convey, but I am 100% sure it would be worth studying.

      I also don’t see that Osho failed with Shiva and Sheela. Shiva left the whole carry-on in utter disillusionment when he saw what had become of Osho -drugs, megalomania etc. – and Sheela did Osho’s bidding and some of her own, and then wanted to get out when the shit hit the fan. The woman is a survivor if nothing else. I would say it is stretching it a bit to claim that those two people failed on some kind of spiritual level in regards what Osho was trying to show them. To believe such a thing requires blind faith in order to cover up facts.

      Parmartha, you conclude with the question…when is anyone ever ready?!
      I reckon it is enough to know when you are ready and it is none of my concern when anyone else is ready. Remember Ready Steady Go? Right, now I’m ready for bed.

      • Parmartha says:

        Thanks Lokesh.
        Forgetting the more esoteric lines of argument, like Judas was part of some divine plot, etc I myself cannot see anything that would reverse my view.
        Judas hung himself from a tree within a few days of betraying Jesus, and that was a failure of all the time he must have spent with his master. Remember Jesus actually choose the twelve, out of a much greater number – those who he wanted around him for most of his ministry. His judgement of character could surely be questioned, which is the underlying point I want to get at.
        Gurdjieff was actually on record as saying he had failed with people like Ouspensky and Orage, in fact that he had overestimated them. Though I have not studied all the literature I know that Osho felt disappointed according to Shunyo when she spoke to him in Kathmandu after the denouement of the Ranch, and blamed himself for poor or hurried judgement of character.
        In Rumi’s case his leading person Shams was almost certainly murdered by Rumi’s other disciples…. out of jealousy…
        These seem plain facts which cannot be argued away…

    • Upnita says:

      Thanks for your reply Parmartha ….
      Life is dangerous and it is not that we are going to get out of It alive…

      Meanwhile 2 poems by James Kavanaugh -
      The priest who wrote an article in 1967 Saturday Evening Post, entitled, “I am a Priest, and I want to marry.” The article questioned the practice of celibacy among priests. The year was 1967, the height of the sexual revolution…..

      “I played God today
      And it was fun!
      I made animals that men had never seen
      So they would stop and scratch their heads
      Instead of scowling.
      I made words that men had never heard
      So they would stop and stare at me
      Instead of running.
      And I made love that laughed
      So men would giggle like children
      Instead of sighing.
      Tomorrow, perhaps, I won’t be God
      And you will know it
      Because you won’t see any three-headed cats
      Or bushes with bells on…
      I wish I could always play God
      So that lonely men could laugh!”
      ― James Kavanaugh, “There Are Men Too Gentle to Live Among Wolves”

      There are men too gentle to live among wolves
      Who devour them wth eager appetite and search
      for other men to prey upon and suck their childhood dry.

      There are men too gentle for an accountant’s world
      Who dream instead of Easter eggs and fragant grass
      And search for beauty in the mystery of sky.
      ― James Kavanaugh, “There Are Men Too Gentle to Live Among Wolves”

      Tarot Key – King of Cups – “The Father of Water is like the deuterium atom floating in the water molecule. Deuterium is an important fuel.One pound of deuterium can produce 40 million Kilowatt-hours of electricity, and then there is enought deuterium in the Earth’ocean to last for billions of years, but, alas, there is only one atom of deuterium for every 5,000 atoms of ordinary hydrogen in water. It is a tremendous task to separate the fuel from the medium in which floats.”
      The Fuel is there, the Spark of electric energy which holds the power of transmutation…
      In knowing and speaking the Truth, we are freed from the drowning under the weight of social structures…we must follow our own song!
      In stillness there is the spark of creativity and we discover power and energy. The Father of Water is the spirit of feeling..rides the cosmic sea which is rough and full of mystery…but when tired he lets the water carry him..

      • bodhi vartan says:

        >> “I am a Priest, and I want to marry.”

        The only people who want to get married these days are gays and priests… the world has gone topsy curvy.

        • Upnita says:

          Vartan,
          Lol…
          “Shivaic Tantrism of Kashmir is transmitted mostly by masters who are married.
          Certain lineages are transmitted only through women.
          Yoginis and yogi masters live more isolated and teach one by one.
          In Shivaic Tantrism,Shiva and Shakti are the inseparable divine couple, gods of ecstatic dance and the creators of the yoga that allows adepts to rediscover the divine at the root of their own minds by opening the heart.
          (In the West, we usually move about in a universe based on duality: In the beginning, “God separated the light from the darkness”(Genesis).)
          Tantrism is non-dualistic. It considers the mind to be fundamentally illuminated.
          The widespread image that reduces Tantrism to vague sexual techniques meant to liberate their practitioners, under the guise of spirituality, has nothing to do with Shivaism.
          Tantrism is a way of total love, which leads to the freedom to be.
          The Great Yoga – that is to drink, to eat, to touch, to see, to walk, to sleep, to urinate, to defecate, to listen, to remain silent, to speak, to dream, to love, to sit, to cross the street, to get on a bus, to travel, through town, beauty and ugliness without ever being separated from the divine, which in itself is in the self.
          No type of yoga is better than that which isnt afraid of immersion in reality. Outside that reality, there is not a single trace of the absolute.”
          Extracts from a diary of an initiation by a Yogini.
          Thank you, Vartan for challenging and inspiring me.
          Love
          Upnita
          Art: Unknown artist

  52. Lokesh says:

    Wait a minute, something’s wrong.
    The key wont unlock the door.
    Wait a minute, something’s wrong, baby.
    The key wont unlock the door.
    I got a bad, bad feeling that my baby don’t live here no more.

    Jimi Hendrix

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