Press Release 23/07/09
We fought a case of trademarks.
Some people were supposed to lose it, and some were supposed to win it. There must have been some purpose in registering them, and some purpose in getting them cancelled.
OIF’s withdrawal of their appeal also had some purpose, may be some good sense prevailed, or a change of heart, or a coming down from head to heart.
Now let best sense prevail.
It will be 20 years after Osho left the body on 19 January 2010, let all Osho sannyasins and lovers come together in Pune to have a grand celebration, leaving the past behind, embracing each other afresh for the Eternal Now–that is Osho.
Love to you all, my friends,
Swami Chaitanya Keerti
Let us fold hands for this historical new beginning.
Beloved Life energy; lead us from darkness to light, from hate to love, from superiority complex to common sense!
Rather disingenuous Press Release!
You would need a professional UN mediator to bring these warring factions together!
It’s all about power really. And Osho wanted self-knowledge of the power drive, and the dissolution of it, in his sannyasins. Maybe this war is how that dissolution happens.
Maybe more would be achieved if there was an appeal to all these people to simply drop their power roles, on both sides, and discover the hermit’s love and powerlessness in the face of society.
No-one is indispensible,
if Keerti and Jayesh and Arun and Dhanyam all disappeared, other power hungry people would soon take their place…
Truly a comedy in the making.
The thought of our prominent sannyasins coming together to collaborate on forming a grand celebration in Pune just makes me smile.
I’m reminded of how often Osho reminded us we are alone.
Garimo …. the l is Alone … But We are Together … l guess
this Comedy should be given a Chance too ! …
Action will follow ……. Somehow ‘ Silent Era ‘ is Finished … from the looks of it ….
Dilruba,
Some time ago I subscribe to the mysamadi list, and every few days I get a emailed message from Osho, a recent one was:
—
garimo,
Awareness cannot exist with duality, and mind cannot exist without duality.
Awareness is non-dual, and mind is dual.
So just watch. I don’t teach you any solutions. I teach you the solution:
Just get back a little and watch.
Create a distance between you and your mind.
Osho
—
for me, The “I am” is pretty clear. The ” we” not so much.
It’s been my experience that it’s better for me to not place too much trust in the commune of the enlightened One… creating distance and watching seems to be good advice.
And I agree.
Let the pendulum swing from tragedy to comedy.
l feel jus Gratitude for All …. at this moment …
and clear about ” lam ” which includes the we too
the pendulum has to move from some where to somewhere
Aloneness intact …. somehow
Once osho was asked that he had spoken so much about the master-disciple relationship, what about disciple-disciple relationsip.
His answer was “there is none. disciples are not related to each other. they are related to me. This is a gathering of individuals. each sannyasin is alone. My methods are for a self-sufficient meditator.”
All this story of re-uniting groups or factions, is just useless. people tend to get together with people who think-feel like them. We obviously have a different understandings of Osho´s vision… I do not really see a real possibility of them getting together. they could get together for a hug, some dancing or a tea. But when the moment come for specific policies, such as malas, sannyas initiations, osho pictures, devotional songs… they will show the teeth to each other…
I agree with Anthony and Heraclitus. Like Osho once said, ‘the biggest shit always comes to the top’……
Anthony n Prem ……Nobody is stopping us to be Alone … and Sanyassins who want to meet will meet anyway …. even though we dont meet physically in the commune / any place … we are sharing through this / any other forum .. this is also a meeting … whether you / me like it or not ….. and the sanyassins /people who are not sharing here /any other forum do not need a Master / or his quotations anyways …..
Love anyways
It’s seems rather outrageous to me that the winner in a 10 year drawn out legal battle offers to have a celebration at the loser’s camp, without asking them at all about the party. And inviting thousands others too without asking anyone at the host site. Quite odd.
It would be like the winner in a malpractice suit against a doctor, in a case that has been pulled through the courts for a decade, to announce a celebration get together at the doctor’s house, everyone’s invited, let’s forget the past. Let’s hug, and party til the stars come down! Wild, baby, wild!
And it seems also Keerti is quite comfortable with giving the responsibility of managing the particulars of creating this wacko post court decision love-fest to our Swami Kranti, who appears to be in some kind of a swoon over just the thought of it. He is taunting him with making good on his sannyasin name (revolution?) to get the job done, it appears.
Holy cow –good luck to all of you — I think you’ll need a whole lot of it.
In my view sannyasins are big beautiful trees, and all sannyasins and Osho lovers are as friends who come to sit under each others shade.
All practising harmony and awareness. Together smiling, sitting together, drinking tea.
Emanating peace, freshness and the fruits of living in awareness.
So please do not force others to adopt your views by any means whatsoever, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education.
However, through compassionate dialogue help each other see the fanaticism and narrowness of these legal disputes.
Cheers.
Just make sure to let Dhyanesh ( hear of security at the resort) know about this party… the guy tends to be pretty rough with trouble makers and he does have good connections with the local police.
Come on!
The point is not pride or vanity, but very distinctively opposite visions of Osho´s legacy.
Keerti was very clear some years ago when he stated that the place in Pune was a “temple” and not a resort.
The people who call the place a ” meditation resort” are very clear that they want to have nothing to do with any religious cult. and that is thier understanding of osho´s vision.
Now, how on hell are you going to make those two very opposite view get together?
I think it is just naive and childish to think that there will be a meeting in that sense.
Oshobob / Anthony … this will be a test for Choiceless Awareness for all of us … somehow …
“Now, how on hell are you going to make those two very opposite view get together? I think it is just naive and childish to think that there will be a meeting in that sense.”
Anthony any child with negotiation skills knows how to resolve a dispute. Actually I know a 10 year old kid who is a master negotiator with the skills to obtain positive outcomes.
Argue with any 10 year old and see who wins and losers or who is right or wrong.
So simple get both parties to agree to have a negotiator. The one who disagrees has the most to lose.
“So simple get both parties to agree to have a negotiator.”
Isn’t that what the courts have been doing for the past ten years?
Beloveds, i would like to go through these excerpts, once again:
I have collected all the unfits, rebels, individuals who have refused to become just a cog in the wheel of the social mechanism, who have refused to believe in religious lies, in political cunningness, hypocrisy.
My people are not a society; it is a commune. And the difference between a society and a commune is tremendous. A society functions according to certain rules, regulations, morality, religion, politics. And anybody who does not fit becomes an outcast. A commune is a totally different phenomenon. It has nothing to impose upon you — no ideology, no discipline, no religion, no culture. A commune simply helps you to be yourself.
So this is a group where individuals exist. And because they have allowed everybody else to be themselves, everybody else loves them as they are. There are no demands on them. You need not fulfill any conditions to be respectable; you are born respectable. Existence has respected you enough; otherwise, you would not have been here. Existence needed you; without you something would have been missing.
So the commune is nothing but a communion, a meeting of individuals who are able to meet, to love, and yet remain individuals. There is no need, no effort to dominate, to destroy the other.
…………………………………..
In my commune there is no punishment because I accept your mistakes as human, natural. To punish you for something natural and human is to destroy you, your humanity and your natural spontaneity.
Nobody is rewarded, because punishment and reward are together. The reward says, “You have done right. Now go on doing right until you get the Nobel Prize.” It is a bribe. It is an effort to mold your life according to the vested interests. The society needs slaves, it does not need independent rebels.
And my commune consists only of independent individuals, rebels. They have gathered together — not that they believe in a certain catechism, not that they believe in a certain dogma.
I don’t give you any dogma, any doctrine. You have gathered here because you have found a certain synchronicity with other sannyasins. You are all rebels. Your rebellion joins you together. Your rebellious spirit is the only hope for the world. Spread it!
If we can make the world know the beauty of the rebellious spirit, then there can be no third world war. Then politicians have to hang themselves; nobody is going to bother about them, they are no longer needed.
…………………………………
A commune is simply supportive. I don’t give you even guidelines, because even guidelines may become dictatorial in your mind, because your mind has been made by the society. Even if I give you guidelines you may think these are commandments.
Guidelines are not commandments. You are not to follow them, just understanding them is enough. Then you follow your path. Perhaps on your path something that I had said may be of use, or perhaps nothing will be of any use. So there is no need to have faith in it.
A commune is a gathering of free individuals — undemanding, non-forcing, non-dictatorial — just supporting and helping. Because alone it will be difficult; you will find it almost impossible to be yourself in the so-called society, because that society is not supportive. Yes, if it supports, it supports conditionally; it is always a bargain, a business. The society will do this for you if you are ready to do that for the society: a simple contract.
A commune is not a business, a relationship.
There is no contract.
…………………………………………………..
Let’s see once again who is who and who was in the commune:
The first commune was destroyed because of women’s jealousies. They were fighting continuously. The second commune was destroyed because of women’s jealousies. And this is the third commune — and the last, because I am getting tired. Once in a while I think perhaps Buddha was right not to allow any women in his commune for twenty years. I am not in favor of him: I am the first who has allowed men and women the same, equal opportunity for enlightenment. But I have burnt my fingers twice, and it has always been the jealousy of the women.
Still, I am a stubborn person. After two communes, immense effort wasted, I have started a third commune, but I have not created any difference — women are still running it. I want women here in this commune not to behave like women. But small jealousies… Now, somebody has to bring my food — the whole commune cannot do that. Somebody has to make my room clean, my bathroom clean — the whole community is not needed there; otherwise the result will be the opposite!
I call Anando every morning while I am eating, every evening while I am eating, just to give her instructions so that nothing goes wrong. Things go wrong so easily… and because Anando has been in all three communes, and is a law graduate, she understands very clearly why these two communes, created with such great effort, with so much money poured into them, got destroyed. She has a very clear conception. And whatever I say, she manages to do it. I have not heard her saying a single time that, “I have forgotten.” She immediately takes notes and reports the next day what the situation is. Otherwise, very easily things can go wrong.
I had talked to Neelam — she is my secretary. I had told her that I was thinking to make Anand Swabhav an ambassador, going around the country, because I am not moving. And he has been doing very good work, conducting camps, giving talks, approaching different institutions in different places. So most of the time he is going to be out. He has been in charge of the ashram, and I had told Neelam that it would be good to talk to him and ask if he would like to be an ambassador, because now we are appointing ambassadors in every country — somebody who represents me to the news media, conducts camps, takes care of what is going on in those countries, against me or for me, and informs me.
She must have asked him, and he was happy. There was a question of putting someone else as the ashram in-charge. I had one idea in my mind and I told Neelam, “You ask a beautiful woman, perfectly capable — Zareen.” She has been doing so well with her job at the gate with the visitors, with the receptionists, taking people around the ashram. I thought perhaps she would be good as the in-charge of the ashram. Neelam talked to her, and Zareen went to Hasya, who is the international secretary. Zareen told Hasya that she is not a “puppet type.” She will do whatever she wants to do; nobody can dictate to her. It is perfectly good, but in a commune it will immediately create conflicts. I had to drop the idea.
Without Anando, I would have not known and things would have gone wrong. Anando informed me — she is my legal secretary. She informed me that Zareen is good, but she has this spoiled mind from her very childhood. Whatever she wants to do, she will do. That’s perfectly good, but not good in commune life. And she is doing so perfectly we — that work would be disturbed if she becomes ashram in-charge.
Zareen even immediately changed the word, in her unconscious. She told Hasya, “I have been asked to become the president of the ashram.” Ashram in-charge is a different thing. It is a rough job. Mainly it is concerned with the police, courts, cases. And knowing that Neelam is soft, there is going to be trouble…
Neelam is doing her work perfectly well, but if Zareen starts thinking she is the president and Neelam is only a secretary, then there is going to be trouble. So I had to change. I had to put Tathagata as ashram in-charge. And he is already doing that job without any title. He is continuously fighting in the courts, and dealing with the police and the government officers. He is taking care of that side and he has been here with Swabhav for years, in deep friendship. So I thought it would be better — he should be named as ashram in-charge.
Now I would not have known, because I don’t go anywhere. I don’t know where the office of my secretary is, where the office of my president is, where the office of the ashram in-charge is. I know only three places: my bedroom, my bathroom, and Buddha Hall. If anybody asks me any question about the ashram, I am absolutely ignorant. Somebody needs to inform me — and somebody who has a comprehensive insight. So only Anando comes, and she comes only because I ask her to come. Just while I am taking food, she gives me information about publications, the books, how many books are in publication, how many are going into publication… how we should manage exhibitions around the world, how we should find publishers. And just in five or ten minutes — she is very accurate, not a gossipy type.
Now Maneesha’s question is full of jealousy. Not only I am saying it; Nirvano brings the sutras and the questions to show me — she wanted to change it. I said, “Don’t change it, let it be as it is,” because in commune life we should expose ourselves without fear. Love knows no fear. If something is arising in your mind, you should tell it.
And remember one thing: everybody is doing his work. Nobody is to dominate anybody. Yes, everybody is allowed to suggest, to help, but to suggest and to help does not mean that you are being made a puppet. Nobody is a puppet here. It is a gathering of absolutely independent individuals.
But just because it is a gathering of independent individuals there has to be much more responsibility, much more awareness, much more remembrance. Outside in the world you have learned jealousy, you have learned domination, you have learned stubbornness. You have learned that “I will do things according to my own mind; whether it is right or wrong does not matter.” It is perfectly okay outside in the world, where there is so much mess that you cannot make it worse. But at least in this small commune don’t bring in the outside world and the outside world’s tendencies.
We are trying a great experiment, that independent individuals can live together without enslaving anyone. Here everybody is equal. It does not matter what job he is doing. He may be editing, he may be cleaning, he may be cooking, it does not matter. What matters is that you should cook with awareness, as if a buddha is cooking. And you are cooking for other buddhas; your cooking has to be done with great awareness and love. It is not a duty; it is your contribution, your share, to the commune. It is as valuable as anybody else’s work. If you are cleaning bathrooms, it is as respectable as being the president of the commune or the secretary of the commune. There is no question of jealousy at all, because nobody is superior to anybody else.
“So simple get both parties to agree to have a negotiator.”
isn’t that what the courts have been doing for the past ten years?
Garimo I see you did not get my message. Let me spell it out for you.
The innocence of a 10 year old negotiator would be better than the legal system. Duh!
Beloved Bob
You do have a point but it is equally outrageous when you write:
“the winner in a 10 year drawn out legal battle offers to have a celebration at the loser’s camp, without asking them at all about the party. And inviting thousands others too without asking anyone at the host site. Quite odd.”
The commune or the resort does not belong to the so-called losers or winners–it belongs to all Osho lovers of past present and future. The caretakers may be changing in the course of time. As the place is not just a property only–it is a trust. Yesterday I was the trustee of OIF, today some body else is the trustee, and tomorrow there would be another bunch of trustees.
There’s no ownership as such. All are caretakers, who are functioning as hosts to all Osho lovers. Millions of Osho lovers are the real commune and they can gather anywhere wherever it is convenient to them. They could also gather at Oshodham in New Delhi.
Or they can hire a place for any such event…just like some hundreds of Osho lover gather on Osho’s birthday near Burning Ghat in Koregaon park, as they are not allowed by the present managers to celebrate Osho’s birth day at 17 Koregaon Park.
Celebrations can take place anywhere.
Dear Keerti,
I’m wondering what your take is on Osho’s description of the commune, and how you thought it fit with this discussion and what you thought we might better understand by posting it.
For me the description of Osho’s ideas, and the difference between how life actually is/was explains again for me why I’ve learned it’s better to not put much of my trust in the commune. Perhaps if we had(were) done(doing) a better job living Osho’s ideals things would seem different for me.
Thank you in adance for your thoughts,
-garimo
“The innocence of a 10 year old negotiator would be better than the legal system. Duh!”
cool, do these 10 year old negotiators live somewhere other than dream worlds?
Introduce ‘em to us.
I am sure many men came to Osho to sharpen their wits and because of this sharpened intellect, if they are able to seduce women 20, 30 , 40 years younger then them, their purpose of being with Osho and as a human being is solved.
This particular group of people have got their best in the present set up of the structure at meditation resort.
” You are all rebels. Your rebellion joins you together. Your rebellious spirit is the only hope for the world. Spread it! ”
This is it for me.. I am aware My heart jumps up and down about the possibility..My head doubts..
But i am keeping aside my head as it is not meant for this occasion..It just does not have a role to play in this beautiful moment..
If Osho had thought on the same lines We would not have been here.. He knew the hurdles mind will put for everything and still took so much pain for us
Let the Celebration takes place… It will bring people to heart .. Let us celebrate for the sake of celebration ..not having another goal in mind
Let few hugging takes place.. Let us all loosen up..We had been too tight for too long..
After that what happens to ‘other’ discussions is left to life & Osho.Let us not ask for everything now itself..
In the previous thread Dilruba puts everything so beautifully
” ….… Every thing has a time … Master’s time to leave the body … Disciple’s time to Understand the Master’s True Vision …. so in that if Money / Energy / Time are used / misused and still the Main Thread is not lost … which is Love for the Master / the Truth of that moment … its worth it … we have nothing to loose …. Lets Celebrate the Now ”
” still the Main Thread is not lost …Lets Celebrate the Now ”
This is the right feeling ..
Osho says ” ” You are all rebels. Your rebellion joins you together. Your rebellious spirit is the only hope for the world. Spread it! ”
Now Swami Chaitanya Keerthi says.. ” Beloved Kranti..You should prove ttrue to your name. It is your chance to bring the revolution.”
As a Osho diciple he is challenging us.. He is actually addressing us all..It is not about one Kranti.. It is about us ” All Rebels ‘ ..let us not allow dullness of senses & self doubts to be in control of us..
Swami Chaitanya Keerthi ..What more we can do to be ‘ The Rebels ‘ which Osho wanted us to be apart from expressing ourselves in this forum..
Can we put together a Beautiful Digital Invitation with all the Love and respect for Amrito and Jayesh.. Trust they will also be loking forward to this kind celebration with Love ..
Media has been very unfair to such beautiful people..To be honest my heart goes to them..Trust it is the same for everyone..Only then we can make this Celebratuion happen , not by using language like winning & loosing
Kirti swami …. somehow in this Forum since past 2 days ….
has created a kind of euphoria of a kind of Kumbh mela / Global Festival for me and few friends in Poona with whome l shared … who are not net savvy ……. which will bring all kinds of energies together ….. and perhaps create a new energy ….
so we all bring to ourselves n others to a new begining … on all levels for our journey ahead …. and to create this we will need some Balanced energies from all which will include Oshobob’s good luck wishes minus Anthony’s fears …. some playful maturity instead of stupid childishness from Kartar also ….
love always
Garimo …. lam enjoying this … Sharing
love always
Yes …Kartar said ” In my view sannyasins are big beautiful trees, and all sannyasins and Osho lovers are as friends who come to sit under each others shade…All practising harmony and awareness. Together smiling, sitting together, drinking tea. ”
Thats all we want.. let that happen in Pune in this Celebration..No one is asking for more..
Andreas told me if this happens he will put back his Sannyasin Robe again.. I know is early days..Still a dream.. But Andreas take your robes out of the closet and give it a wash..Just in case…Who knows.. You may need it for a dance in Buddha Grove
And If this celebration happens i think so many Andreases will pull out their Robes from the closet again..And thats is the real Rebellion
Kranti a thumbs for U Dear !
Cheers!!
Garimo..You ask “cool, do these 10 year old negotiators live somewhere other than dream worlds?’
You would have heard Osho telling us about the story of a small child asking why the king is nude?
Any 10 year old will do.. No need for searching..Any 10 year will put people who are fighting to shame.. Infact a ten year old will not even ask.. He/She will simple start dancing when He/She sees the Buddha Grove and Bamboos and Peacocks..while the adults will still be fighting..
yes Kranti this in reference to him being a negotitiator … this a different context … from yours
Garimo had to barge in to answer … this
It is not that Neelam “has to make a living,” is it?
Here is the method…
You talk to innocent Indians new to Osho who do not know the history.
You use the magic words and phrases :
Materialistic westerners, holiday resort, trademarks, copyright, five-star hotels, swimming pools, abridged books, etc
You collect lots of money from these innocent Indians. Some of it you have to spend on legal battles–you have to be seen to be doing something. But some of the money you keep for yourself. So you have made your living.
You collect lots of money from these innocent Indians…
Alok John, are you Irish or Polish or simply British?
when was the last time you have visited India…..
The so called Innocent Indians don’t come to Osho, they go the places where others hundred thousand Indians sit together before another dozen or so Indian Gurus, from down south till North.
People who have come to Osho are not just Innocent, but intellectually well developed with a good doze of academic background and a comfortable financial clouts, these are the Indians who can knock out the traditional monopoly of the white toast bread!
Financial irregularities can happen around any structure, including Neelam and co.
The fact is that Osho has dreamt and visualised a human Jungle where different mind sets can grow together, a highly ambitious experiment where thousands of people pour their energies because something NEW was taking place.
Unfortunately because of some leakage in inner wiring, experiment looks up side down therefore every component is behaving berserk. Wiring diffects can happen any where including the bing bag experiment in Switzerland, dubbed as the most expansive experiment of all times.
It is like in an Orchestra where one type of instruments start bullying the other instruments or one spices of animals want to have the jungle just for them, in that case Jungle will not be a jungle but a Vila of some Brat!
Dilruba..
Just to make myself clear i meant a ten year will start dancing straightaway on seeing a place like Buddha Grove so as to say..’ Guys , there is nothing to negotiate & nothing to fight for , let us dance ”
Art of being a Negotiater without being a Negotiater
Those Innocent Indians dont spend that easily for getting ‘ Nothingness ‘..
They have scores of ‘ spritual magicians ‘ in India to give them something ‘ tangible ‘ for the money that is collected..
Adyashathi was telling in one discourse if ever there is a sales pitch for awakening , his sales pitch will be this…” that Do everything.. Make all efforts …In the end ..you get nothing ”
( Not in exact words ..Nowadays you need to be careful by giving disclaimers..You never know what will hit you )
You collect lots of money from these innocent Indians…
Alok John, are you Irish or Polish or simply British?
when was the last time you have visited India…..
I actually agree with Alok to a certain extend. There are a lot of innocent (not stupid) seekers that come to Osho without knowing anything (I was one of them). So here is the title-Osho’s secretary! Sounds cool and sounds almost like she knows some magic. Hence none of the old sannyasins have dropped their titles which seem hilarious to us, new sannyasins-cleaner, cook, door holder etc. Of course in one sence it is beautiful and intimate, bit on the other hand it is used for pride!
To me a cleaner is a cleaner, no matter where. And it is only a job, nothing more a less.
Truth is not known hence so many opportunities to use innocent seekers who do not know the mud that many sannyasins have been.
Some stories I hear are scary! If that what was happening some people should simply shut up and go underground….
I feel a lot for Russia as it seems anyone from India is an enlightened for them. Or any Puna therapist is a magician. Sad….
Seekers from any part of the world are ignorant before they meet the Master {that includes all } …. only a Master knows whether they are ignorant / innocent …. and Alok john n Chetana … Neelam is also doing Osho’s work She does claimed to be a Master … and let us for once keep these issues aside …. or start annther forum for these grievences
Love always
Chetna So you say ‘ There are innocent Russians also ‘
Alok..Think you need to take back your Innocent Indians labeling..Innocence ( wahetver it means ) is not exclusive spiritual prerogative of Indians alone.. atleast not anymore …With the world we are living in and with Inteenet reaching everywhere you can find those ‘ Innocent ‘ guys anywhere ..
Have you guys thought about what you need to look like after getting enlightened?
1. A website
2. One photo in the front page of the website where you stare asthough your eyeballs are going to pop out ( Thats how enlightened people are supposed to stare ) and few more photos where you always at distant objects.. a distant and empty look..asthough after enlightenment you can not see anything which is near you..just to attract those ‘ Innocent ‘ people
Talking about these artificial looks , people who lived closer to Osho are the one category who dont get into such pathetic efforts .. A Amrito or A Keerthi or A Neelam or A Maneesha are in that sense are so beautiful and human. I respect them a lot for that ordinariness.. And Osho didnt fail in them..
Yes Dilruba.. I also got diverted .. Let us keep aside these ‘ innocent ‘ people for another forum..We can go for a separate thread..
“innocent Indians”… I just meant Indian people who did not know much about the history of Osho’s work.
We understand Alok.. It is just that we expanded that definition a little bit..
“You collect lots of money from these innocent Indians. Some of it you have to spend on legal battles–you have to be seen to be doing something. But some of the money you keep for yourself. So you have made your living.”
This is very hilarious though the writer is totally misinformed. According to my knowledge, Neelam had no financial involvement with this ten year legal battle. She did not collect any donation for this case from innocent or smart Indians, as she did not have to spend anything on this case. And there is no question of keeping many for herself. She did not need it.
She did not need to make any living on it. Her family background is of enough richness to continue to afford a lifestyle she is living. I know this much.
But people like alok John are free to imagine whatever
they want to, they are free. We can laugh about it. Either he is innocent or ignorant, but I have yet to see
ignorant Indians donating any money for this case
or to support her making any living for herself.
Though she has that Chrisma thatif she wants to use it, she can. But she has not done that . And there are no ignorant Indians around who are so rich and yet so ignorant. So I advise such people to relax. Do not make such ignorant generalizations.
“Talking about these artificial looks , people who lived closer to Osho are the one category who dont get into such pathetic efforts ..”
Oh really Kranti? And you know who is who? What they were doing near Osho? And what they are doing now?
You are one of those innocent in my view. It is beautiful and dangerous!
And it is relevant here! That is why we ended up with divisions….blind following the blind. There is no Osho to get a zen stick!
Just because he or she was with Osho we take their authority.
I set it out as a question…
This is what I wrote… “It is not that Neelam “has to make a living,” is it?”
How did OFI finance the legal case then? It must have cosy a fortune.
Chetna..It is not that difficult and It is blind ..Simple.. I also gave names of all those people
Can you imagine A Amrito or A Keerthi or A Neelam or A Maneesha or A Sw Arun making such efforts?
Also i clearly mentioned people who were closer to Osho like the guys mentioned above… not the guys who tried but failed..
Neelam and finance…I set it out as a question…
How did OFI finance the legal case then? It must have cosy a fortune.
I meant : It is not that difficult and It is not blind ;
I meant specifically efforst to look special by staring out of websites like that ..none of the guys i mentioned do that.. Do they?
“cost a fortune.”
Yes .. Cost a Fortune = Cost of developing 10 Meditation resorts .. atleast..( Disclaimer: Just assumption )
“Can you imagine “-I can imagine many things Kranti, Unfortunately
Sw C keerti. Your invitation is a blessed one. A celebration and a merging of the energies.
I would support that wholeheartedly. This is the right time, lets make the arrangements and send an invitation to all Osho’s lovers. My vision would be a Resort supporting Osho World supporting Sw Arun and Tapoban supporting Verresh and the Humaniversity supporting Neelam and Tathagat in the Himalayas supporting Viha Connections supporting all the Centres World-wide. There will be differences of opinion, but this will be a strength not a dispute.
Can you imagine “-I can imagine many things Kranti, Unfortunately
Thats true with all of us.. Thats why we need Osho..To learn how to SEE.. Not to imagine..
It is alright.. let us not kick ourselves too much for imagining or being blind.. We will SEE more clearly oneday..
By the way Chetna..Keep your Russian Contacts ( Potential Disciples ) always ready.. Someday we need alternate career option..and we will need disciples..We can open a website and start staring our eyeballs out..
Hi Alok
OFI means Swami Atul Anand and some of his other long time friends who also happen to be Osho lovers. They are not much known, but they are not ignorant Indians. They fought the case with their personal money that they earn in their own business.
Love
Of course there are thousands of Osho lovers in OFI but they did not have any financial involvement with this trademark case. They were simply the supporters of this issue of making Osho freely available to all Osho lovers all over the world.
Keerti wrote : “Of course there are thousands of Osho lovers in OFI but they did not have any financial involvement with this trademark case. They were simply the supporters of this issue of making Osho freely available to all Osho lovers all over the world.”
I just think OFI is unwise really. It seems to me as soon as people use the word “freedom” their brains stop working.
The meditations were always almost freely available; granted you had to buy a CD or tape. Granted discourses were freely available at Osho world; but is this the best way to reach people? If you want to reach billions of people you need to use commercial distribution channels as OIF are doing.
I never used the word “ignorant.”
I insist. the problem is not pride or vanity or money… the issue is a very different epistemological point of view of Osho ´s legacy. These kind of matters are not legally resolved.
So far the people who are in charge of the resort are the poepl that osho left in charge of the place…One of them was dearly loved by him. actually was his closest: Dr. Amrito.
Of the original inner circle…
Jahesh was also one of osho´s favorites. Anando, Devageet shunyo, Maneesha, original members of the inner circle, are not part of it anymore, but totally and completely support what is happening now.
Zareen, Garimo, mukta, are still part of it and very much supporting the new wave.
Abhirbava, Yogi, hasya are long gone and doing their own thing in sedona
Prasad and kaveesha are dead.
Turiya also left because she did not want to live in India, but she is often seen in the resort.
Vedant, neelam, and tathagat… are involved OFI
amitabh, anasha, chitten, jayantibhai and plotinus I do not anything about.
again. i do not see any possibility of meeting
I am asking you guys something which is beyond the scope of this forum..But we may never have a separate forum for this..
Since we touched this topic of money.. What is the core ‘ Revenue ‘ for the meditation centres run globally.. Not sure membership fee alone will be sufficient . and that too when we try keep it as low as possible..Do donations form part the revenue in which case is that sustainable?
( I work in a corporate ..All the time we talk about running organizations efficiently ..so i was wondering about the above )
Meeting.. is the only opportunity there is.
” again. i do not see any possibility of meeting’
Anthony … it need not be a meeting of all those old sannyasins except for a handful .. But the meeting of these handful will send out very postive vibes and it will show the potential for people to come together inspite of all the differences of opinions even if they are related to very critical aspects like trademarks which can have huge financial implications..
Gobally we are seeing countries and organizations coming together for larger purposes
If these people who lived with a Buddha can not set an example for dropping ego and coming together then nothing can be done ..
We will all go home and have some popcorn and watch WWF in TV.. ( I am sorry for this post..Got worked up a bit )
Kranti do not be naive. what Keerti is proposing is this:
” ok guys we won. so why don´t we all go and celebrate to your place that fact that you lost and we forgive you for throwing us out….no hard feelings, Ok?
The people of the resort feel that they have lost a very important tool to keep and preserve the purity of osho´s work. they are not happy about it. they actually think that what happened is a calamity for the work of their master.
i do not see them in a cheerful meeting mood.
I understand that Anthony.. I am not being naive
Infact i was so noisy about the trademark issue.. I am convinced that trademark is a good tool to have and as Osho said it should be with one head quarters..controlling all the publising..To me it can not befree for all.
I also understand this whole business off winner able to invite the loser easily and it is not easy or even necessary for the Pune mgt to accept..
I was just hoping the celebration can create a possibility & Climate for some discussions as people can come out of their tightness and look at new possibilities
It need not be a case of EITHER or OR..
Osho always talked about we being EITHER or OR cases and the way we refuse to see other possibilities.. there are hundred and one ways of people working together jointly
After all we are not trying to bring Communism and Socialism together…Just two groups of Meditative people who have differences of opinion on Approaches..Thats it.
I see this as the easiest possible Groups for coming together as they worked with a Buddha to address MIND for 30 / 40 years..
Thats also the reason i diplomatically keep saying this open Invitation is NOT enough.. And we need something bigger which will address Amrito and ayesh with more Respect and Love… It can at the most be a small first step of someone opening up..
” One small step for man, one giant leap for Osho Vision.”
( Wow..How about that statement.. This should be the welcoming banner when we join for that celebration )
one Big Correction Neelam does NOT claim to be a Master ….. sometimes one misses aword and the whole meaning changes …. SORRY Friends
Swami Chaitanya Keerthi
Think the initial euphoria will be dying down now..
As Anthony says we ( people in this forum ) dont have the visibility for what can happen.. I am aware you said Pune Mgt reads this forum.. But honestly it may not be enough.. Correct me if i am wrong
If we sit back assuming things will happen as and when someone reads these pages then as Anthony said we all will be naive ..
Please guide us through this period..
But Kranti. on what ground will these people meet? good will?
seriously.
what for? brotherhood of humanity?
When osho was in the ranch he was not friendly not willing to meet with the oregonians. he clearly said there was no possibility of meeting… and they were all human beings in the same planet.
why would they meet now? because they are all sannyasins?
This is what we call naive. The guys in pune are pretty pissed off with the trademark thing. It was the only tool they had to control for what the osho name was used. now that is gone… and all thanks to keerti and his gang.
Keerti says that now the meditations are available for everybody. they were always available. even the trademark thing in india does not apply. so they could do their thing.
I honestly do not see it happening
Anthony …. you are a very intelligent man … but sometimes it can become a barrior … let the concerned party also say something …
and thanx for the historical facts … but you didnt mention Karuna … l jus happened to remember her …..
Love
karuna was not part of the original inner circle
does it matter … Anthony …. you tell me gathering all these facts … and can you get us to not love our Master if you know what it means … no arrogance meant here … jus maybe you can take a jump …..
Anthony.. I respect your views . We can go on expressing our opinions in a forum.. Nothing may happen.. I see your point practically ..
To be honest with you we have limitations on what extent we can contribute.. I totally agree with you that it is up to people like Amrito and Keerthi to discuss future..
As far as the point on what is the ground these people will meet.. It need to be ‘Osho’.. Honestly they dont need any other reason than ‘Osho’ to make this meeting happen.. They cant keep quoting Osho to suit their view points. Osho quote / sppeches can be used to support any view..It is just not right way..
If you ask further we can express our opinions as the ground on which they can meet , Surely we can come up with good points but they will be our opinions only..It will be of no use.. So it is better we dont get that deep …
Kranti. i understand and respect your wishes. Unity is a beautiful ideal. But reality sometimes does not work in that way.
I am not against it, personally. I just do not see it a real possibility. that is all.
If you say they should meet in osho. then the question comes… which version of him? which understanding, which vision?
because that is the deeper issue…understandings of his legacy… now, how do you make a meeting out of that? someone will have to compromise in his own understanding… i do not see it working.
Dilruba.. Anthony always takes unbiased view as he is emotinally attached to either side.. And his knowledge on things related to osho is also immense.. He has spent 23 years researching Osho and meeting every possible Osho sannyasin.. he is one guy who can contribute lot of FACTS to this thread..
Correction ” Anthony always takes unbiased view as he is NOT emotinally attached to either side “
Anthony.. On second thoughts i feel we should take a shot on analysing some practical points .. Is it possible for you to start.. let me also come up with something but i cant match you when it comes to facts
After all we have spent so much time discussing so many aspects.. so let us try.. In the meantime someone can contribute and this forum may find some practical ways of looking at things
Anthony , Can you come up with 5 points where both sides CAN & SHOULD meet and 5 points where they will NOT see eye to eye no matter what. ( In our opinion ofcourse )
they could meet in their love for osho.
they will not meet on what should be done about that.
Okay thats the point .. we are making too … about love for the Master … maybe that will create something new … what should be done about it … Ksera sera
It did occur to me, in my highly imaginative musings, that maybe Osho’s work is destined to die in the West. By West I mean USA and Canada, Western Europe and Australasia. The West dominates now, but I think it will be a backwater in 200 years time, or sooner. And of course the West murdered Osho. So trademark loss in the USA is part of this process. Just shows, sadly, America’s hatred for Osho ( and truth.)
Let us see..There are 2 major conflict areas as far as i know..
1. Head Vs Heart Approach
2. Trademark / Copyrights
Head Vs Heart Approach is not a big hurdle..It is one of the smaller compromises really unless someone wants to belive it is a serious problem just for the sake of having a problem..
The reason i am saying this is because things can not go too much to Head or Heart with Osho’ teachings anyway.. Osho will balance it out.. In this point i fully agree with Sw Keerthi there had never been a problem of worshipping atleast with Osho.. Sometime people who go to Osho needs larger space and freedom to express themselves and it should be respected.. To me someone Kissing the green marble or wearing a mala is not anyone’s problem.. Sw.Keerthi also said we can always fix individuals who go too far in that aspect.. In todays world who is that religious anyway..
Trademark / Copyrights is all about Money & Control .. I really dont think there is anything more to it.. Unless people have strange intentions on how they want to use Osho trademark.. As long as no one has any such intentions they can always operate within the realm of Trademark / Copyrights ..There can always be a efficient licensing system agreed by all which will give the necessary space and freedom for people to operate meditation centres and any other Osho work
This is an area where Pune is right except for some technical adjustments they have to make..something like adding / removing few clauses in that agreement which needs to be signed..( just one example )
So Money & Control should be the last on the list of things for which two Osho groups should fight for ..
So to cut it short Pune has to Dilute their Head Vs Heart arguements and OFI has to sit and finalize a efficient licensing arrangement which will give everyone space to operate without suffocation..
The reason why they should do the above ofcourse is LOVE for OSHO ( Assuming It is still the case )
Just to add ( all my opinions which may not make sense to all )
It is easier for Pune to dilute / compromise on the Head Vs Heart arguements compared to what OFI had to in the area of Trademark / Copyrights especially at a time when they have won a 10 year drawn court case.. Pune Management had also been very heart oriented during Osho’s time and it is not that they dont understand the need for a place for heart..They can pull back on that area.
To OFI & Team it will be going back on their idealogy ( Free Osho ) and also surrendering the benefits ( whatever they are ) they derived out of the win.. So i feel OFI has more to lose if there needs to be a compromise.. ..( Ofcourse i am going by my own arguements of who should compromise in what area and it can be wrong )
OFI and team have projected themselves too much to the outside world as saviours of all Osho sannyasins by freeing Osho from Trademarks and they will not do anything to reverse that image / idealogy
So Anthony! to me OFI has more to lose on the compromise ( if there is one ) than Pune..If the discussions fail you know where to blame…So techically Pune need not be pissed off.. They should get things moving if the discussions happen.. After losing the court battle they have lot to gain from discussions than to lose.. As far as the ‘ Ego hurt ‘ is concerned they can manage it with Dynamic Meditation
Prof. Anthony Thompson,
Have you ever been invited by the military Junta in Burma or the great leader in North Korea; there must be deep grass root support for them, otherwise they could not have survived for so long.
Same i can say about your beloved dictators of Latin America…There must be a series of well known artist and intellectuals to support them. Is it not like this?
People with money, muscles and some time by the raw personal power can come into the helm of affairs, the deciding factor is always, are they loved by the people, will the people keep their legacy when they will pop up?
I hope my dear Friends and fellow traveler in the main seat of the ashram live long, live healthy and die gracefully by the natural causes but i assure you, it is a clear writing on the wall, once they are gone; even the roof of the BUDDHA HALL will be enacted again, not by the innocent Indian sannyasins but those thousands of German, American, English and other sannyasins, who have spend their youth around the most misunderstood master of our times.
It is no prediction but a common collective psychology.Buddha grove will be again Buddha Hall, the way Leningrad is again St.Peterberg, the way Bombay is MUMBAI.
I sign the above statement.
Shantam Prem
None of this would ever have happened if people had listened to me.
I say it again:
Never join a club that would accept someone like you as a member!
Kranti the head versus heart idea is a very simplistic way to see a core issue: religion versus personal growth.
devotion as a psychological tool, is seen as unproductive when the master is gone due to the psychological trappings that it entails.
Kissing the podium marble or any form of object veneration is seen as a socialized, mostly eastern way of expressing love that has a strong connotation of giving up ones own power or responsibility to an object where once the admired-loved one was sitting.
What we call the heart is a portion of the frontal lobe of the brain.
So the real entagonism is between venerational-devotional, master centered approach vesus scientific person oriented approach.
The difficulty here is that both sides think and feel that they are representing the real Osho.
See why no meeting is possible?
Shantam. The buddha hall structure was illegal. the only reason why it was there for so long is because dhyanesh kept buying the police… but they knew it was just a matter of time before they had to bring it down.
Now the serious issue… It was a tent… just a tent for gods sake! are you attached to a piece of plastic with steel because your master spoke inside it?
do you envision Osho wanting that for you? attached to structures.
what on earth has that to do with waking up. Osho did what he could to free you guys from all the psychological trapings of culture, religion, countries etc… for you guys to end up attached to tents….???
If that is the case the old man failed enormously.
Anthony I might have put that Head Vs Heart in a simplistic way.. I do believe other aspects of that so called devotion are an extension this Green Marble Kissing
I saw even a westener namasteying the green marble for long time assuming Osho is standing there , just few weeks ago..It was beautifull.. I didnt see anything ugly in that expression.. It is up to that Individual..
I dont think we will arrive anywhere if we keep discussing generally… We need to go into specific issues of what Pune thinks as Devotion..
But as an outsider i dont see any major room for Devotion in Osho’s scheme of things ..Even the Master / Disciple , Surrender kind of aspects are not any more meaningful or a problem since Osho is not there.. So what exactly Pune is afraid of ? Personally i dont see much beyond the way people express themselves.. To me it seems this entire concept of ‘ Devotion ‘ is being given too much importance and it will never be a real problem..
What can become a problem with Indian disciples is a different issue which we had already discussed.. They may become very devotional to western women..not to Osho
If both sides think they are representing real Osho then they cant choose , as Osho accepted all appraoches. How can these people choose one approach and then say they are representing Osho totally..? It is a deception.. No one will buy into that arguement..
I agree with Anthony.. although keeping that podium alone will not hurt anyone.. They could have managed to retain some main parts of it.. as few people relate to Osho through that.. It is a questin of balance..We expect all these disciples of a Buddha who manage the place to have a sense of balance ..Middle way..
I also understand Osho did lot of chanes to physical strutures including his rooms to prevent people getting attached to physical stuctures.. So we cannot be too atached to everything which was there during Osho’s time..
Alok john … in that sense east n west dont exist … if one looks deeply …. one knows that the Master does not Exist only in the body … and his work can never die in that sense … even if you see in your musings …..and predict …. the truth is Osho ‘s / any other Master’s work is the Eternal Truth not bound by any time factor .
Love Always
kranti. In my understanding Osho´s way is not about OSHO, but about you, me, whoever, It is about meditation waking up, living life intelligently. It is not about rituals, pictures, podiums or whatever, as much as we might have liked them.
If we get attached to such things I think we miss the essential of the work and I think the change was geared towards that. before 2000 the ashram was full of rituals and pictures of osho as wallpapers.
To have the picture of the master was a tool, a medium for greater awareness not to be memeber of a funclub as you might have a picture of a singer on the wall… but thjt was lost. Most sannaysins looked like members of a fun-club more than seekers of truth. having all these rituals where they felt comfortable and ” spiritual”.
See shantam… he is the perfect example. he wants the tent back…
This is just idolatry of the worst kind.
If he thinks that is osho´s work… there is even less possibility of any meeting between us.
Now is when devotion becomes more dangerous than ever… the guy is not there… you are being devotional to your own fantasy
Yes Anthony ..Thats why i said few things can be left just to enable people to relate..But not all things lke photos , wallpapers etc..that will be too much..Even as an Indian i will not go to that place if that kind of worship takes place..
Kranti,
“Any 10 year old will do.. No need for searching..Any 10 year will put people who are fighting to shame.. Infact a ten year old will not even ask.. He/She will simple start dancing when He/She sees the Buddha Grove and Bamboos and Peacocks..while the adults will still be fighting..”
For me, my mind does not see this wishful thinking as anything other than escapism from accepting the reality of a difficult and complex situation. The rest of my statement was” “introduce ‘em to us”.
How does wishful thinking exist in the moment with that which is happening and alive in this moment? How can it translate to this real world situation?
I notice recently on the schedule of (is it still called the mystery school?) the group department at the resort, there is offered classes in the work created by Marshall Rosenburg. Who for the past 35 years has been a world renowned crisis and conflict negotiator. His organizations website is CNVC.org – His work (in my judgment valuable work) is taught in the resort, and yet if it’s not utilized… perhaps I’ll agree it’s time to bring on the 10 year olds. Introduce ‘em to us.
But really, I suggest Marshall’s work will offer more consideration and respect for adults experiencing adult situations, than what telling them how wrong they are, and that they *should* act like 10 year olds will do.
Shaming is a useful tool for manipulating people, but will it bring the result you’re ultimately looking for? Shaming won’t bring out the love… it will cultivate more resentments though. Some tools work better than others in navigating relationships… getting the results you want will require clarity, understanding and forethought.
For myself only, I’ll just have to claim the freedom to think that 10 year olds will not do.
-g
Garimo.. Please dont take what i said literally..The 10 year old is kind of analogy.. only to indicate the fact that sometimes as adults we tend to complicate things ..Often solution may be simple..Thats what Osho always told us ..Didnt he?
Anthony & Garimo
Does my comments on those two lengthier posts ( Kind of solutions ) make sense?.. I just wanted to know how far off the mark i am..on my judgements about who need to compromise on what
Dont you guys think OFI and Teams side has more to lose than Pune in the case of a compromise situation? Interms of their idealogy and Benefits derived out of the court case
And also if the discusions do takes place then Pune should grab it as they have everything to gain after the legal case loss.. What do you both think?
We have a friend Suparni ,who joined the ‘ Oshotimes stops publication ‘ thread.. He is from the world of publication…I forced him to express his opinions on trademark since he is from publishing world.. But this is his personal opinion and i am taking the freedom to quote him..
“I also feel that trademark (and certainly without a doubt copyright) was necessary for OIF to obtain so that publishers in the marketplace would take them seriously and print Osho’s books. I studied enough publishing to know that no publisher was going to even consider them without copyright and really they have done a tremendous job… all of the people involved.
I have plenty of friends and I have met plenty of people who have been introduced to and enjoyed Osho through those books and it is no small thing that they are even on the shelves in mainstream bookshops… in fact – its HUGE.”
“Thats what Osho always told us ..Didnt he?”
It’s not my place to know what Osho speaks to you. There is no US.
We’re individuals, separate minds, translating what we hear, learning want we learn… navigating our differences as best as we can… some times more successfully than others times.
edit
“when” was meant to be “what”
>> learning want we learn
Shantam does not want the tent back, i have made my usual walks around the podium without the tent too and for years.
But i know more than dozen sannyasins personally, from Münich and Hamburg who were coming to Pune till 2000 and after that they go to Goa or Ibiza or any where but will not come to Pune at any cost, because the decisions were imposed by the extar constitutional authority.
I know a woman from Sychials, who was reading listening and watching videos of Osho for more than 15 years. Through a common freind she books a room in my flat for three months and within a week she leaves resort,” It looks all artificial. It has no Osho energy. it seems all manipulated.” I was stunned by her observation.
There are hundreds of instances like this.
And Anthony you will not beleive that what the ashram workers tell to some onelike you or to someone like me. They have learnt the art of Soviet era communication.
And than it is a question of human psychology. The coming genration of Osho lovers will definately enact the stupid tent becuase they would like to feel the original, original what they will see in the videos.
Look at the Bob’s mind blowing website. It has not just discourses but the encyclopidia of all the names, Osho uttered from His mouth in any reference, unfortunatly Buddha grove is not there, this word is an imposition.
People will not like it, Again i say, Like Bombay and Leningrad, this world will be removed, so the human mind and emotions work…
Kranti,
>>Does my comments on those two lengthier posts ( Kind of solutions ) make sense?..
Really I haven’t seen any agreement or shared understanding as to what the problem is…
-g
Somehow when the kids(atleast animals) want to behave better than daddy, they would love to screw Mama too..
If the roof of the Buddha Hall was just a stupid illegal tent, why the two men’s authority did not dare to take the opinion of the others.
Was Osho a nut case who did not know that everyday is a celebration and still wanted five particular days to be used as celebration.
And was Osho just a dumb fool who wanted to see his face photographed, and the spiritually greedy doctor and financer could not dare to tell this old man from Middle India,” Master, there is no need of photography anymore, we have the Videos”.
And the thing called “Truth”, if people can fuck the dry pussy, they can get the truth without the devotion too…
(sorry for the vernacular language, but intelligent than others need something like this)
Anthony l share your understanding too about Osho …….. it is about meditation / waking up …and would like to add … after waking up some one is so Full / Empty that on wants to Share …. actually one has no choice but to share … and in that one feels more gratitude for the Master and his work … and feels a kind of responsibility towards it …. according to whatever level of that understanding he / she shares it
P.S : level l dont mean there is high / low … sometimes words also become a barrier ….
somehow instead of some …
The below post is with love for Andreas….
In one of the previous thread, i was nudging you to tell at least one contemporary name or school whose contribution is immense in the spiritual world.
You have mentioned some Buddhist monk who has opened more than 1200 Buddhist temples all over the world and how well educated people in Germany are fascinated by the Buddhist meditations and philosophy…
It may be just a coincidence that in the search of a new relation , i click with a woman who has followed Zen for 10 years and for the last 6 years is doing the Tibetan Buddhism.
( Prof. Anthony, This one is 10 years younger and if i could touch your age, the companion of that time will be 20 years younger. It seems, this has become the yard stick in the world of Osho.
Check in the resort cafeteria at 10.15. Sixty plus women are going for Vipasanna and the gentlemen of that age are telling to the young new arrivals, there rendezvous with Osho. Testosterone’s are in the air. Seekers of truth don’t need any Guru but a young chick for their ultra fragile ego, in this way they can show the middle finger to their priests and parents).
So it happened the other week that a renowned Buddhist Krampa was visiting our town and when my Friend mentioned this, i took the opportunity to visit the Buddhist place first time in Europe.
11.00 AM during a normal working day, and there were more than 150 people Germans with different age groups. And few women as gorgeous as in the peak days of the ashram. I appreciated their beauty and felt thankful that they are in Buddhist center and not in Pune or köln!
Astonishingly, people were not only bowing down before the 77 years old monk but many of the Buddha statues and the SATUPA.
Educated and well off looking Germens were bowing before a monk and the metal statues. My My, few Gentlemen from the world of Osho will never allow these people, the taste of truth. The Guy is dead 25 centuries before and here they are playing with their narcissistic fantasies. How these people can ever get the truth.??’
( it seems TRUTH is a stolen valet with credit card. and few people could get the pin code from the mouth of dying Osho.)
l request all Sanyassins / People to support this Celebration
and that includes Swami .Jayesh ,Garimo,Anando, Manisha,Shunyo ,Mukta ,Big Prem ,Sadhana, Amrito , Mukesh , Devendra Pramod,Dhyanesh and all the missing names … not as a only Celebrating Osho’ 20 anniversary / Universal Celebration … inspite of Knowing that We are Enjoying our Alonenesses …
Love to All
including … Oshobob and Anthony
Love
Shantam
With due respect to you …& your love for Osho
It is a switch from temporary structure with tent to a beautiful sophiticated Auditorium..And that too according to Osho’s wishes..Whats wrong with moving ahead with time..If the auditorium had come up before Osho left body everyone would have accepted it..easily..Osho would have asked us not to use the previous tent based structure.. Wouldnt he? Just because the new auditorium came later it gives an impression that it was built by current management and old Buddha hall was precious & they did it against Osho kind of illusions.
Dilruba… I too wish that this celebration should happen if not for anything else..just for the sake of celebration..
But as Antony said let us wait to see how reality unfolds…
Unfortunately what we call ‘ Reality ‘ is also by product of few minds..not Real Reality
Kranti : somehow we are here for the Truth …. which is beyond the mind … and that is what Osho … is conveying always … which by chance happens to be … through this trade mark & copyright episode / Kirti letter’s / Shantam’s point which triggereed Kirti to write this letter for Celebration on 20th 2010 Jan …. and now this is somehow making me write what lam writing … ln anyway lam not saying l know it all … and/but Somehow l deeply feel its needed … to be conveyed …..
Kirti’s letter not Kirti letter’s
Keerti,
There is nothing wrong to have the white robe in the new pyramid. It is classic.
Keerti and Neelam etc. have not been there, they were “banned” before it was complete, what flimsy ground was used is a matter of another post.
Since that time i have not met them. In Pune days too, i have not met them more than what was needed as a part of work.
So there is no tribal feeling in me for particular group of people.
But i and thousands others could see suddenly that profile of the visitors and the energy of the ashram is not the same anymore.
Even the animals can feel when heart is not there but only the head is there, (head and heart are just poetic expression, but there is a energy, when it comes in the married life, it means divorce is near by. There is some radiation, when it is there,, “lover ask to the beloved,” What is wrong. something is not the same. it seems love is not in the air”.
Technically other than the few working sannyasins, who have no other way than to there, i was one of the remaining few OLD sannyasins, who has spend the maximum hours in the Osho Pyramid.
So i am not following the here say and moreover it is my responsibility not to Osho or anybody to be utterly fair and unbiased for the sake of my own journey…..
And i have written in some where else, world loves when the new features in the product are added, the way software industry and the mobile industry is doing. Apple’s IPOd is the classic example. it motivates others too to create better and finer things.
Problem comes when someone downgrades the product..it kills creativity it takes the intelligence energy somewhere else.
Other day i have heard a new name for the resort. It comes from a western woman, CASHRAM….
Add C in the ashram and you see the sacredness turn into the market place. there is no air of the beyond……
White robe in Pyramid or tents or on the open street, i cry for that Himalayan Air, people used to feel hitting their being at the very entereance of the ashram…
Ask Dilruba, she came to Ashram, i think in 1992-93, three year after Osho leaving the body. She can tell you that concentrated energy, i have mentioned above.
She came with her German friends for 2 days visit and with in a week she leaves her job in a five star hotel in Mumbai and comes to Ashram for ever.. Soon her mother followed.
Find in Your town..the people who are witness of that phase. Please…do research, meet as many people Old/new both who were the witness of a new energy phenomenon…ask them whether the product is upgraded or downgraded.
If i am wrong, slap me to make me awake…
“l deeply feel its needed “…Dilruba…For miilions of sannyasins..the feeling will be the same..to dance in the buddha hall ..that this celebration should happen.
More than us Osho will be dancing in Joy if a celebration of this kind will happen..
Somtimes i feel all this conflicts / talks about trademarks is sheer bullshit and waste of time..What is needed is for all these people , young and old to get together & just celebrate & dance… Honestly dont why we all are doing this.
In a way it is all USING Osho for our conflicts..Disgusting.
I feel like shouting from rooftop to all these people who manage the show and get into legal battles…
Enough is enough..Lets dance for Osho’s sake..
But ….in Osho’s presence , These people have danced enough..enjoyed enough..celebrated enough.. they have gone beyond celebration also..They dont need this anymore.. they dont feel any urge to do that kind of celebration anymore on their own..
Yes my Dear Kranti !
Kranti
The above post is for you… Kranti and keerti,Spellings have their own vibes…
Celebration with meditation is the theme….
Below is a “dialogue” with Sadhna, the spoke person of the resort
Friends,,
With Osho, we have learnt everyday is a celebration. We don’t need to confine him to particular days.
So the management commattee has decided when we can celebrate every living moment , why to have any special festival days…
“But Sadhna, Not Osho’s birthday or leaving the body day, resort is stil celebrating 31st December night.”
“Is it really so.Sorry I am not aware about 31st December celebrations as i go to bed quite early.”
“Yes, it is so. i was there myself. Will 31st December will be celebrated this year too?”
” For this, i must fax Jayesh. I can let you know tomorrow.” and than she adds typical sannyas punch line,” You know, even a chair does not move in the ashram without faxing first to Jayesh. sorry, i simply spoke the word used by Richshaw people , it is Resort; R capital”
Yes Shantam … now all memories are Living memories …. but
when l enter the GATE /GATELESS it has a different Feeling altogether … and even today when l dance in Buddha hall /Grove … l njoy …. even the groups / jus being there for no reason … l respect / love / whatever word …the people living there and feel they if they can Welcome All his People … He always says ”MY PEOPLE” for this Celebration it will Release
SOME MORE Fresh / New energy …
Shantam
I like the way you interchange this Keerthi and Kranthi..It is alright
To be honest with you , Although i am not a old timer like you even i can feel the difference betwen 2003 and now..Somehow i feel everything is kind of shrinking..Even the vide outside.. No more colorfulness or excitement in the air around the commune..
But i always felt i am projecting myself and never shared this with anyone.. Now when you guys talk about it i feel how true it may be..
Shantam was that conersation with Sadhana?
Ya..It is such acontradiction to stop Osho celebrations ut celebrating new year.. I never respected or celebrtaed this new year and all..It is childish excitement.. Especially when you are with Osho and you dont belive in this waiting oe one more year to celebrate etc..
And the things not moving without Jayesh knowing is absurd..looks ridiculous control system..hope it is just an exaggeration and we not take it litreally
Last few posts are coming from certain depth..from heart..let us see…whether someone reads and take it as a representaion of what sannyasins in general feel.
from “an experiment in Conciousness with a Buddha ‘ to ‘ Just another day in Office ‘..What a change..
Listening Osho at esnips.com
All the discourses start with usual way, ” Osho ..talks given at Osho Commune International Ponna, India.”
Millions of copies of these discourses are available all aorund. you just can not chnage the introduction again,” Talks given at Osho Meditation Resort Pune.”
The momant some one gets interested in someone, there is a natural wish to know all about that person, and it is even more so, when Person is someone like Osho.
From Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh Ashram, Poona to Osho Mediatation Resort, Pune was done by Osho and before the packed Buddha Hall.
Master is a Master, he has the authority, unconditional authority.
Best would have been to leave Poona as it was and out of gratitude to Open one of its kind meditation resort say in Florida or Miami.
That would have been a journey of ATISHA, from India to China, Journey of Bodhidharma….towards other side of the Himalays, all by primal ways, without any comfort of class travel.
I hope the most loved people by Osho(though we all have heard Osho saying that He can never love someone more someone less, it all depends on our opening) will bring His meditation resort to North America. They have lived enough in the protected four walls of 17, Koregaon park, Pune. let they be torch bearer of Him in the market place…
correction-
From Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh Ashram, Poona to Osho commune international, Pune was done by Osho and before the packed Buddha Hall
I am not going back to the discussion on Authoritarian / Democaracy and all..That topic dragged too long and i was bored of such discussions..But since you said..
.”Master is a Master, he has the authority, unconditional authority”
Thats why i always say Osho had to be like that.. He was handling people’ unawareness.. he had to tell people what need to be done because they lacked awareness
Now Osho is not there..But the basic assumption is people who spent 40 years with him would have reached similar heights in awareness / conciousness and all the sannyasins have every right to think any action arises out of them will be with awarenss..So conflicts over a trademark , Head Vs Heart arguements are not digestible..and not believable..It shakes the confidence of people on the PATH..
beloveds
love.
as long as i can remember, since 1972, around Osho change is the name of the game…and for an earth sign like me, even Keerti, Satya Vedant – born in the beginning of May, we have a hard time when changes are happening. When Budhha Hall became Buddha Grove I had a difficult time letting go but then I saw the reality, that there was meditation happening from the new auditorium, to Buddha Grove to the pyramids and beyond…it meant expansion not a limitation. Even the bamboos can be felt dancing as they have been given full space to grow.
Yet I will paraphase Osho’s response to a question I asked in Pune One asking whether he had a contraption in his room which regulated the moods of all of us in the then, ashram. His reply seems especially pertinent at this moment.
i don’t remember exactly but one thing i remember Osho saying is that the commune (by whatever name) is like many rivers moving towards the ocean and many rivers moving together have more chance of reaching the ocean than a single river. He went on to add that sometimes even though one might not agree with what is happening, to put one’s ego aside and allow this momentum to take us to the ocean, to the other shore.
distractions of ego, fear of security, ambition, or whatever can make us forget why we are here together at the feet of our most beautiful Master. but that is the beauty of a sangam :to help each other to remember – sammasati – that we are a buddha…and to continue this journey with a joyous, dancing heart so that we can disappear…in trust, in love, in gratitude.
osho requests that we all sit for the meeting of the Osho White Robe Brotherhood wherever we are in the world…at 7 p.m. It occurs to me that if we do this, the entire world will be surrounded by a belt of meditation. and in these mad times it is so much needed.
he says to never speak of me in the past tense because my presence will be felt much more without the burden of my tortured body.
If all of us who feel touched by Osho come and meditate, sing, dance, laugh and share this love together there will not be time to write all these comments.,..
and the air will be pulsating with this celebration because we will have remembered and live his dream….here, NOW…
this very body the buddha.
this very place the lotus paradise,
i miss all of my fellow travellers wherever you are and hope to see you all here again soon….
much love,
big prem
Well
I loved when the copyright thing over. Cheers to people like Swami Keerti.
Osho always loved controversy, he never bothered about how people in the outside world will use his name. Infact, he used such contorversy as an opportunity to spread his word and work.
Now, i think his sannyasis, especially the people of his Inner Cricle should be good eneough to use any misuse of his name as a opportunity to spread his meditations and work.
Let them call the Master a sex guru, you use the opportunity to respond and tell the people the real thing!
Now, people will get curious and than they can watch osho videos from original source and know the truth for themselved. I wish osho would be everywhere on youtube! without worring about copyright.
Now, i think all fractions should unite and focus on bringing the new man alive!!
So true Kranti …. so maybe lets Celebrate the No Celebration !
on the Pathless Path inside the Gategateless Gate of Our Beloved Master ! which by chance happens to be 17 Koregaon Park … Pune … Maharashtra … lndia … Asia … World … Universe ………. !
It shakes the confidence of people on the PATH…..
On one side it is like this on the other side beloved Kranti, it is a blessing in disguise.
This assumption that once you are in the physical presence of the Master, transformation going to happen , new man gets easily impregnated in our being.. has proved a myth.
Second myth was that people born in the blood line of Master has also some quality of that energy. History has never supported that assumption, Osho’s siblings are clear proof.
Though we all have seen the photos of Indian Gurus where the wife sits as a GURU MA by the side of her husband and their brats are treated like Krishna..but these are the people Osho wanted to delete from our collective memory, the junk, the parasite, the fuckers of human vulnerability
So it leaves all the ground open for someone like you,
And here Osho’s contribution is unique, He wanted to leave behind A CHAIN of seekers, which helps, pulls and motivates people on different evolutionary levels..All evolutionary levels meeting at one place and creating the energy of meditation and celebration…
Here Osho is light years ahead of J Krishnamurti. K Foundation has only one work and that is to connect with publishers and bring out the books in new format.
That is pea nuts for Osho. J did not went deeper into the work with disciples because every organisation gets corrupted. Osho know this too still took the chance as a necessary evil and also with the TRUST imposed in us that we will keep the chain, in a way that it can be molded yet remains intact..
Just imagine, there is a music in Buddha Hall and i see, Amrito or Neelam coming for dance…Immediately i will get the kick too to be part of it.
similarly, you see me and get the same feeling.
We may go on old, we may die but the linage of seekers will be a continuity….
and why one should not be thankful to Osho for all the luxury, for all that guilt free life. I am sure many people know the feeling of just a small intimate touch with the beloved after the white robe..For many gurus, you have to wash the auditorium if few kisses are exchanged.
But this needs immense sensitive handling.
It is powerful yet fragile…..like a poem, add or subtract one word and you destroy the poetry.
So conflicts over a trademark , Head Vs Heart arguements are not digestible..and not believable..
See Kranti, last ten years i am busy to figure out why and where the wires have got leakage..
It bewilders me continuously.
and here i am sharing continuously my notes… one of the big fault i have found is that by living too much in India, the British has gone Patriarch!
He has forgotten that in the developed societies you are not suppose to give do’s and don’t list even too children.
The moment priest’s mind is incarnated, seekers with a brain start running.
Totally agree with you ..Its a blessing in disguise certainly…When Dilruba said lets celebrate no celebration i simpley switched on a Prem joshua music and silently enjoyed it.. No one can take away the celebration & gratitude for Osho which is happening inside all the time..
“The buddha hall structure was illegal. the only reason why it was there for so long is because dhyanesh kept buying the police… ”
People are being misled by such statements. I have worked with Dhyanesh closely and going to police with him.
The commisioner informed us the day after Buddha hall wass demolished that demolition of buddha hall was illegal. Why do they think that they are an island and they don’t need permission for building or demolition. So in a hurry by next morning..the podiium was repaired as police told they were coming to inspect…I don’t know from where Anthoiny gets all the lies..And he has posted so many lies in the discussions, as if he was in the administration or continues to be in the administration .Please dont behave like Goeblles…
Keerti, would it be an idea to write to the inner circle and discuss the possibility of some kind of amnesty of all Osho lovers in dispute with the resort for the day of Osho’s anniversary 20 years left the body, and allow a coming together of all sannyasins.. with perhaps a day ticket with dynamic. nadabrahma .samadhi ..nataraj, kundalini ..white robe brotherhood, and a dance party
a day to forgive and forget the divisions and to hug and to love each other. this is my feeling of going forward. After people may feel different.. new and fresh.
Hey Guys, I really didn’t know that I had psycic rapping powers… 3 of my predictions have come true..
1) Osho Bob really doesn’t have a job
2) Anthony cooks Jayesh’s books
So here is my previous rap post:
::Boka mystiks in the house:::
http://www.soundclick.com/bokamystiks
uh uh..what..
So I’ll let you cartoons know, I’m a fan of Arun yo,
rep my Maroon robe and fart on you old foes!
In the sannyas world, or the sannyasnews,
There’s one sannyas girl, and 100 sannyas-dudes,
It qutie the full-monty, Just Swamis, no Ma Jees,
Who would ever think “Kranti” is Swami?
Every other dude was going for that Punani,
Frankie’s got the vision, acidified religion,
drop-ur-pants-man, seems to be the mission..
Osho Bob, quite the knob,
Claims to be Zen Master,
But really deosn’t have a job !
Shantam does some Astro, hez got some crazy cash flow!
I dont want his service if I can’t get no ASS-YO!
Jayesh is the crook while Anthony cooks his books..
enough for today….
Swami.. I am touched by your post..
Swami Keerthi.. This amnesty thing for people who are currently not allowed is beautiful..Somone has to make it happen.. Except for people who are considered very harmful to the place all others shoudl be forgiven..It is disgusting to hang on to such things..
Amrito
First time i am listening to that kind of rap.. What is this? I used to hate rap. it is not that i like now..But curious as to how even rap also is getting converted into Mystic stuff.
haha!
Well Kranti, meditation is not limited to sitars/guitars, its an alchemical phenomenon that can tranform even rust into gold shavings… Its just a catalyst towards creativity and Osho’s influence has been that there is no limits on integrating meditation.
But you still dont like the rap? Perhaps if I add some sitar strings, which is the next project..
Sorry about it. Thats me.. Never liked rap..thats too fast and too loud for me..Surprised to see what you posted.. What you mean by next project? Is that something which you created? What is that music band or something?
Swami and Kranti,
First we see what kind of official response we get in the coming weeks. When there is a discontentment all around and hearts are full with longing, people in power will realise their mistake, after all to err is human,
My feeling is that soon there will be an invitation to all sannyasins for the festivity during December Janauary. The list of not allowed should be put aside unless and untill there is a criminal offence.
“Amnesty” is granted by the Royal Houses during the special occasions. WIth Osho we are not dealing with kings and the commoners.
The action has to be from heart to heart, as Osho says something like ,”My people will be my temples, my Churches, my synagogues….”
Neelam Maa …. somehow lam reminded of an of incident … which might / maybe start the process … of fulfilling this Dream of a OSHO Explosion of a Grand Celebration in 2010 Jan 19 th …. not comparing anyone to anyone but
Since l was a witnesss to it …. in 1995 / 96 and Utsav was banned in the Ashram for spreading Sw. Chaitanya Bharti ‘s pamplets in the ashram and going to the press …. Utsav sent a message thru me to you to please allow him to come to the Ashram …. as he was misssing the Ashram / Buddhahall … and your reply to me was … tell him to write an letter of apology to the Ashram ….. as this is the policy of the Ashram when Osho was in the Body …. l passed on the message …. which he did …. and was allowed to come
l know this has nothing to do with the Present situation … but … maybe … jus could not help writing / sharing here
… lam sure you get my point ….
Please let us work together to bring / make this Grand Celebration Happen … for our Love for Osho
Shantham:
“When there is a discontentment all around and hearts are full with longing, people in power will realise their mistake, after all to err is human,”
That’s naive bro! Its a corporation afterall and its booming in its numbers, so why would they care about these “petty” issues to make everyone happy.
Again, the ball goes in their court to decide and make everyone happy. If someone is making popes and priests out there, its the fellow sannyasins who have not gone beyond this Pune fetish…
-Amrito
Amrito. …. yes my Dear … somehow you are right / wrong but
l owe it him …. jus like you feel for Arun … lam not comparing in anyway …. but somehow thats the paradox … and Life is in the Paradox …. There is no Choice
haha its funny how people have completely wronn notion about Sw. Arun.
He is not my master nor a guru, but yes I do feel alot of respect and gratitude for him for doing Osho’s work fearlessly and passionately.
But jelousy has been a barrier for sannyasins a long time..
Pune as fetish…. yes, Pune is for those highly egoist and proud people who care an iota about who is taking what meditation camp and where.
There were people in Lau tzu house too, who immediately went into other’s feet but as an average once you are in Pune you go nowhere.
When you have played national level politics, you will prefer to remain retire than to go for the village elections.
Neelam ma, who has created a beautiful abode in Dharam shala or your spiritual acnhor, even they care about Pune, its charishma, its grandour to have a Master’s home and disciples initiation into a journey of self discovery.
Amrito … its about gratitude / love / passion not about you/ me / anyone not a place / person … it is somehow inexpressible …
Its a corporation afterall and its booming in its numbers, so why would they care about these “petty” issues to make everyone happy…..
Amrito Bhai,,,Fact and fiction are neighbours and they are married to twin sisters, called Truth and Lies. Because of such close relation they all are into each other’s house quite Often.
One must use “common sense” drops for eyes and ears to find out, whether everything is in order or it is a reality that Fact is sleeping with lies and Fiction with truth.
missed the ‘ to ‘ before happen
Amrito,
My feeling is that i am also doing “Osho’s work” fearlessly and passionately, can you please organise mediation camps for me in North America?…
Have to share this ….. last year in September … l did a group … ” Forgotten language – Talking to body & mind ” and during the sharing one participant said ” l met a friend in the ashram & told him l was doing this group ^ talking to Body & Mind ^ and my friend said ‘ talking to Daddy & Mummy ‘ never heard this name of a group before ‘
l somehow feel lam a child of divorced parents & ^ talking to Daddy & Mummy ^
Jus Joking
thank you friends for your comments,
so Shantam, I will glady organize a meditation camp for you, why not. I have organized it for Ma Dharm Jyoti, Sw. Anand Arun and soon Sw. Satya Vedant. You can also be on that schedule, and I’m not joking.
But how is your approach in trying to solve the Pune problem even working? You can sit and discuss and daydream about the day everyone will be hugging eachother, but until that day you aint doing much..
I also would love to sit inside Pune, and ofcourse I will too if they dont ban me. I dont intend to go their with picket signs either nor take pics of myself giving Jayesh the finger. Nope, I will go there and meditate.
But in the mean time, because my personal opinion is that Pune should not be a “mecca” and Osho should not be a centralized phenomenon.
So what strategy in my opinion will likely change Pune?
The only way to change a corporation is to introduce competitition on an otherwise monopolistic situation.
Re-introduce the Osho movement with your own understanding and love and go as far as it can take you. Sell his books, open a center, keep photos of him if you’d like, get new people involved: growwwwwww…
And that’s exactly what Osho did, he continually inspired Sannyasins to take His message to their own homes and create a meditation center. He let them know that physical closeness does not mean anything and that he is available anytime anywhere.
So I also love Pune, but if you want to “beat” them then “be” them. This quote can be taken out of context, but what I mean is: take responsibility for carrying the torch of your master instead of holding a few idiots in Pyramid accountable for all thats gone wrong with the Osho movement.
Shantam you say:
“When you have played national level politics, you will prefer to remain retire than to go for the village elections.”
Don’t mind me, but I always do feel a political mind from you. Otherwise any person so concerned with His Masters work will not just complain and complain about other managers, but will take it upon himself to make a change with or without Pune.
And there is where Sw. Arun takes heat because his approach toward the Pune situation is: 1)Spread Osho’s work 2) Open Meditation Centers 3) Revive the Osho movement amongst new-commers accross the globe.
And you can keep spreading a false truth about me being a disciple of Sw. Arun just to avoid looking into what the man is actually doing. There hasn’t been one person whom I’ve introduced Sw. Arun to that has had any negative thing to say after their initial doubts.
In fact if Sw. Arun was a guru figure like you ignorantly describe him as than he would not be the one telling me to have as many Osho Mediation events with as many diverse Osho sannyasin group leaders as possible (even those who disagree with him).
But I believe his strategy will eventually be the one that changes minds in Pune because it will be between the wild-fire of Osho and a stiff executive channel of OIF representatives.
So, if you are ready, I am ready to invite you Shantam (but come as a Osho lover, not a competetor)
Regards ,
Amrito
Amrito …. you are inteligent and l dont need to give you a certificate for that … but my dear when one looks deeply one knows that one needs to go beyond all kinds of minds whether it be political / non political … Chareveti Chareveti ….
It is ridiculous to watch what you neo-sannyasins are talking about. I am rather new body in this world and I didnt had any chance to meet him alive. You had the possibility for that and now you are just arguing about whose is the most rebellious. What is that? You could be developing in with some other teacher?
Love to you all Osho lovers
AMrito,
You have replied nicely.
Between white and black or between 1 and 2 also there are infinite numbers, and one must look into that aspect too. One can see the complexity and simplicity of the situation more clearly. For my 8 years old child 1.22 is still One hundred and twenty two.
If you see in me a political mind, i am utterly happy. Most of the politicians on the world arena are doing tremendously beautiful, look at their fights and their flexibilities.
Obama and Hilary, billions of people have watched years long bitter primaries and now they are the team.
Just recently two ripe old gentlemen in Indian politics were telling to the nation about their incompetency and once elections were Over, they move forward in the spirit of forgive and forget.
I have even respect for Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe, finally he could see the discontent of people and agreed for power sharing.
When the cause is bigger, egos automatically adjust according to their heights.
Now about the possibility of work in Poona on one side and Keerti, Arun, Viresh etc. as the Osho work doers on another side.
In spite of all the stiff executive attitude of the managers there, one must look at the profile of the people who are going there and who are willing to go there if some basic changes happen.
Than you look at the people who go into the meditation camps done by ABC.
First of all if a person has just come in contact with Osho on a bit deeper level, he will look for the next available opportunity to learn the meditation and it is a natural instinct to treat respectfully the instruction giver or the teacher or the facilitator or the disciple behaving as devotee.
But all these ABC’s are like AK 47, because of the MASTER Phenomenon, Pune has become like Missile with a much wider range. May be the only contemporary campus which has WOW appeal, where people of hundreds of countries sit, meet, meditate and share their life from the gossips, cigarettes and more.
Meditation and the possibility of a global intimacy is a mixture, nobody has ever dared to create up to now.
This is the unique USP(unique selling point) of Osho and his work shop in Pune.
Love and meditation alone as single experiences are available in every nook and corner of the earth. And than the techniques of meditation given by Osho are so simple that after a certain while you don’t need ABC to tell what are the steps. “Self Sufficient Meditator” is a logo for Osho in Pune the way “Style AND Simplicity” if for Philips.
If i am living in Europe, it is not because of EURO or some civil war in my country or some IT related work, it is all because of these exposures into the hearts and beings of an alien country.
And another fact, uncountable Pune freaks have shared their experiences with their friends, strangers and families in a non professional way. These people have played the messengers of Osho, these people have given their books to their friends as a first taste of Osho.. This personal and non formal exchange has played a vital role for Osho which the dumb-ass managers want to by by pass.
Mouth propaganda, the personal reference built the respect and trustworthiness around products and people. These “micro finance” ways of reaching is done with the NGO’s kind of activism. Arun, Keerti, Veeresh Neelam are few known names. Amrito, Jayesh, Parmod, Sadhna are the “stiff N smiling” executives of an ill conceived cooperation.
Satya Vedant i don’t mention, he wanted to be the executive of the corporation but could not fit there, his working in an NGO is circumstantial.
Dilruba, Kranti, Anthony, Shatam are the open hearted consumers, who will complain if the seller charge more and put less cheese and Mashrooms on the PIZZA. Andreas is a free lancer consultant, who can be consumer and activist both.
And Amrito… you are a nice rapper. Let me hug you. With all the love……from a spiritually unemployed brother of Arun…LOL.
Hey You guys have been posting very thoughtful stuff..Good going..
” Re-introduce the Osho movement with your own understanding and love and go as far as it can take you ”
” when one looks deeply one knows that one needs to go beyond all kinds of minds whether it be political / non political … ”
” Meditation and the possibility of a global intimacy is a mixture, nobody has ever dared to create up to now.
This is the unique USP(unique selling point) of Osho and his work shop in Pune.Love and meditation alone as single experiences are available in every nook and corner of the earth ”
Beautifull..Atleast for once let me sit back and enjoy what you guys are beautifully expressing..Thanks for opening up so beautifully
Kranti ….sent you invite on FB … when you have time please
Check FB … Love Always
Will accept it straightaway.. Time is not valuable more than accepting an invitaion for friendship..Thank you for inviting.
I accepted the Invitation Dilruba.. Thank you
” when one looks deeply one knows that one needs to go beyond all kinds of minds whether it be political / non political … ”
Dilruba.. Something related to your words above..Of late i have been listening more and more to Mooji and Adya..beautiful teachers ..The understanding that there is ‘ No personal Me’ is always deepening..Thats seems to be the only way to go beyond this ‘ all kinds of minds’..
Peaceful and loving existence through meditation, prayers, Bhakti, Sadhna, Vipassana, Kirtan, Pranayama and the Satsang at the feet of the Master, If India with a 1.2 billion people is surviving it s because of the above factors.
Pollution, corruption, police brutality, fake medicines, stinky trains, and somewhere few people with their little or big cars, shopping malls; many coutries would have gone disintegrated. India has many times more reasons for a French Revolution..and still it goes on vibrating and getting stronger, because the above mentioned psycho religious factors play a significant role to give anchors to the soul.
In this background, it is easy for the earth to get the soul like Osho.
People, specially the western people who want to be the custodians of Osho’s work, must understand the harmony amongst the disharmony, a silence among the horns of the trucks, buses, cars and scooters.
Few suited booted junkies cannot bear Kirtan music in the Ashram and Indian skies are listening the sounds of all the world religions and their sub branches.
Osho has not just spoken about Zen Masters but about heartbeatfull verses of the Indian mystics too who have brought poetry and romance of the universe in our life.
Osho’s branches may have gone all around the world but His roots are very much in the Dal, Chapati, Papad and green vegetables. Don’t fed DDT to this utterly strong yet easily perishable flower.
Compassion, rebelliousness and very alert brains vibes observing every thing in and out on global and cosmic level are the core values with Osho.
The values mentioned in the very beginning are also there but than they are served in every LANGAR( sharing the food in a religious gathering).
Shantam.. What you said here in your post is actually the introduction ( more or less ) given to Osho Meditation Resort in the DVd ‘ The Silent Explosion ‘.. Irony..
Anthony dear,
I want to know with all the humilty, share your vision why the issues between OFI and OIF ( Am i right to spell the abbrivations) cannot be resolved or under what extent they can be resolved.
Human intelligence and its diplomatic and communication skills have resolved uncountable issues in the past. On an collective level after the second wolrd war, Europe has done so wonderfully in this context. In India, every month you have to resolve this or that issue to satisfy the diversity of the races, cultures, languages.
We do all the time in our daily life specially in relationship levels. WHY WHY….the ice can not be broken, a compromise formula must be their to achieve.
Naturally, if the powerful authority says, you have to lick my ass first, we will never have any solution.
On a personal level, how so ever stupid you find the Indian thing called KIRTAN, as a manager it is your duty to allow it happn becuase it was integrated in the charter of the Osho culture. and for sure, it is also needed from the authority concerned to go on adding new fatures so that old features get worn out by themselves.
Can you imagine last time i was in Sufi Dance in the ashram in 1989. New version, called Heart Dance, i was never in. Still i will love and respect the right of those who want to join this meditation.
TRUTH is not the prick of a guy only and only his girl friend can know, how it looks like, feels like.
As a city MAYOR, you may never go to night club or sex shop but if the laws of your land allow this, Mayor has no fucking right to bring his fucking opinions, Catholics, Jehovah, Jewish, sannyas, in this regard.
Masters have the right to be dictators but the managers are bound by the opinion of the share holders and market demands.
Look, Even Obama has invited the Surgent for the Beer in White house, because he used one word too much…
Shantam
I am aware you driected this question to Anthony who has his own opinions..
But i thought of expressing few points here..It is just my understanding
All the conflicts reslutions in the outside world which we talk about look great from outside.. But these agreements / resolutions / people coming together / drinking together are , 9 out of 10 times full of business compromises.. There are always unwritten agenda where certain things are agreed & exchanged for people coming together…
By nature politicians and those kind of people can not come together for right reasons.. Sometimes even of the reasons given to outside world looks beautiful there are other factors behind the season
Thats the reason typical discussions like ‘ democratic’ way of functioning and all does not sound good to me..
But what we have here in our hand is completely different phenomenon.. It is more a difference of opinions based on Love for Master.. They have different interpretations of how things should be because all equally love Osho..
In realitty in certain things like Head & Heart together kind of issues are difficult to practice.. Unless there is another Transcendental power driving / managing them all the time.. So what is possible when Osho was present & guiding may not be possible now ..
Again all the people were close to Osho and they will not compromise on self respect which typically the outside entities like politicians will be more than willing to do..in their so called agreements
I may sound slightly contracdictory to my earlier views..But i am trying to look closely and understand how things are evolving.. I am not saying my underrstanding is correct.. But i just wanted to express what i feel.
Having said that if things can work out as some kind of join efforts / Co-existence inspite of conflicts / licensing systems it will still be beneficial to larger group of people.
Kranti…
Still my question is valid for Anthony and even for Andreas. for sure the limited nos. of people we are here, everybody is welcome to share their views, it makes bucke of flowers richer…
After reading your letter,” I remember words of UG,” It is not out of your so called love but out of fear and greed people come together.”
Sometime sarcastic touch has more truth than
“My beloved Friend, i want to fuck you and than leave you. with all my love, yours, neo sannyasin”
Sw.Jayesh /Neelam maa / Kirti Sw / Sw ,Atul / Shantam / Kranti & all … l somehow feel … All legal issues between both parties have to be dropped immediatelly .. unconditionally …. it is simple … if we want to grow .. in a Wholesome way … maybe then the True Celebration will follow … and then who cares whether there is a Celebration or no Celebration … Naturally it will happen .. when it Happens
Hi Shantam and Friends,
First of all Bodhi, this is a simple discussion forum and I love Shantam and others for their views, so don’t take the feeling that it is a battle of any sort.
I am learning lots from these types of discussions and grasping a diverse view of the sannyas world.
Now Shantam, I also feel a certain splendour when I look at the Osho Meditation Resort. I have alot of gratitude for their structure, their aesthetic sense, 5-star quality and superb marketing. Such beauty for the eyes that you literally do feel like you’re on a Heaven on Earth..
And I feel very inspired visiting such a place where Osho’s books, meditations and vibe is preserved. But where I’m reserved is the closed mentality of others forms of spiritual growth. I personally am attuned to dancing with Osho and dissolving into that presence, which in turn helps me greatly in meditation.
I bow down in gratitude not blind worship. And I can understand the Med Resort not keeping many photos of Osho around, but I can’t understand its meddling in on the rights of others who do feel a connection to such things. This is just a minor small issue but the list continues as far them making you sign a contract for doing any Osho work around the world.
Its not heart to heart, its stone to head.
But I cannot co-exist with both and accept such rules and regulations. Yet I love the beauty, aesthetics, energy and structure. So my individual passion has grown me to introduce an Osho BuddhaField where I am. Why isn;t it possible? I heard Rajneesh Madina in England also had a strong energy field even when Osho never physically visited the place.
I love Pune, but I cannot confine myself to it. That Osho energy and beauty should be available accross the world.
In the end its about expansion/sharing of Osho’s vision and dis-attachment from a centralized body that tries to control everything…
” That Osho energy and beauty should be available accross the world……In the end its about expansion/sharing of Osho’s vision and dis-attachment from a centralized body that tries to control everything…
Yes.. More or less i als feel the same..although the place where Osho lived most of the time speaking to His people will always be special in a sense.. The same way the place where Buddha awakened.. The place will make you remember the Master and inturn remind you of your potential to awaken..I think that should be the purpose behind preserving such places..not from the veiw point of converting them into a place of worship…
In that sense Pune has really done well although what they should have kept and what they should have discarded is an issue of subjective element..
For example Anthony is perfectly happy with Pune as it is..
I am 90% alright with Pune except for a little more space for individuals to express themselves.. but that too on the basis of discontenment i see from people and not on the basis of any major personal negative experience
Shantam & Dilruba feel somehow the energy is missing and certain things need to be brought back to grow energy again. they see from heart..
Andreas does not see any significance to that place and he feels it is bound to disintegrate sort of thing..although i dont agree on the reasons he puts out for the same interms of blaming Osho himself for number of things..
Bodhi
So much discussions & sharing have taken place..I didnt see any arguement as to who is most rebellious etc except for Quoting Osho in acertain context..
Yours was a very quick JUDGEMENT.. And it will be only that ‘your judgement’
Let me say what l feel …. l feel somehow that if every faction of Osho’s meet physically … freely without the legal { the current situation } aspect involved … it will release a new / fresh energy … lam not missing any energy … newness means unknown … unknown cannot be missed …. becos only the known is missed …. which will allow all of us to see / feel / go beyond even more … if this is being greedy … no problem … maybe it will lead to Abundance …… there is a natural nervousness / fearlesness
Actually we mentioned this earlier..when anthony said there is no meeting point.. If the celebration happens just for the beauty of it..It will ertainly relax everyone..Out of that a new seeing may happen..If it doesnt happen It is ok..Atleast celebration happened
Kranti … l cant help but say it in as many different ways … l can … and somehow every time l feel … its something new ….
Let me absorb this..
One of the most unclear areas have always been the finances. There are 600 Osho books translated (mostly for free) in 100 languages, there are audio rights,
video rights and the in come from the resort. All this is handled without control by one person in total secrecy. Just think of the book publishing royalties coming in.
At the same time we all noticed that investment in the resort has been declined,
the quality of the food, the rooms, matrasses etc. showed a sense of neglect.
At the same time prices were going up and session prices are higher now then in most places here in the US. It feels like the place get drained from within.
The people in charge seem to be non-meditators and smokers. And people who come often over a longer time feel this and it leaves them sad.
This reminds me of the Nalla Park too … last year l was there
l could not believe how dirty it had turned …. specially the water
was stagnated and also lot of empty plastic bottles …. l did pick few bottles to throw in the garbage …. l asked the security if they had informed about this to the management
and they said now Gatha was the co-ordinator and it is no longer looked after by the ashram but by Jagtab [local] nursery
somehow l forget this when l am in the Ashram / Resort as l get carried away by the energy …. inside … l know this is not the right place to complain but l hope Gatha reads this ….
Prem Buddha,
As you have mentioned in another post, you are a wealthy person from US and visiting the place for last 34 years.
The decline in the quality you have mentioned has an over all presence all around the Resort. When you come from an Polluted Indian city, it looks charming but otherwise system is cracking badly, when instead of a passionate lover, Gigolo makes love, it happens sooner than later.
When the price rise and decline in quality is noticed by you, imagine those 90% Osho lovers who are middle or working class. Above this, add the cost of 21 days Mystic Rose, the meditative therapy given by Osho as a departing gift to the humanity, mentioned as one of the big break through after Gautama Buddha’s Vipassana..
Soon they will teach in the business schools, ” How to destroy business successfully…increase the prices, be rude to the pet customers.”
Even given the fact that it is run more as an organization rather than as an ‘ Organism ‘ we still should be able to see lot of efficiency in the way things are run..If that is not happening then there is somethingseriously wrong.. It it is true , It simply shows the people running the show are losing interest and they are no longer meditators..
Years ago i heard a rumour that one of the disciples closes to Osho and who is still in pune is into big time drinking..Pardon me i only heard it but it hurt me a lot..But i ignored that as a rumour..
In one of the thread i posted saying the risk of trying to run the place like a resort is this downgrade.. People will use it as a resort & nothing more…
While we always talk about losing balance on the side of devotion / worship . we seem to conveniently ingore the downside of running the place like a resort..
God knows how low things can go from there on..
This is again one of the reason i said the legal battle was not well directed.. The correct legal battle is for retaining the sacredness of the place rather than focusing solely on trademarks .. It has completely diverted the core issues and given an impression to outside world that everyone is interested in money & control ..
The downgrade if it is true is the most serious thing and atleast on this point someone from Pune should come forward and prove the world wrong..they need to tell the world nothing of that sort is happening… If they dont make such efforts & continue to do what they have been doing then a fresh battle is certainly on the cards..
Amrito,
17, Koregaon Park is an Oasis because thousands of people for decades have pour their energy, love, creativity and money too, more over in a very legal way, not the way it was in Oregon.
Blind worship is a myth, a lie. Tapoban in Nepal, Osho world in Delhi, Nisagra in Dharamshala, and thousand other centres all over India and the world, an no where you will see people doing ARTI to Osho’s photos.
In many centres they go on experimenting with different music and rhythms for dancing meditation. I mean if two three chosen few, don’t trust the intelligence of Osho’s people, basically you are degrading HIM.
Pune is just a central point, a meeting and merging point of a global scale, a kind of big gas station because Osho has been in that place and thousands have got the kick start of their journey in that place, otherwise everybody concerned is creating their Buddha fields at their immediate surroundings.
If they visit Pune, it is because of gratitude and also the way Irish go to their pubs, Indian go to their Chai shop, Germans go their Lokal, though the Whiskey, Chai, Beer etc. one can consume at the privacy of the home and that too in a very economical budget.
But as the irony is, priests are the last persons, even behind the non believers to trust the power of their deity.
” When you come from an Polluted Indian city, it looks charming but otherwise system is cracking badly ‘
Very true..Compared to what we see as Outside India the place still looks like a paradise..So for someone like me unless i focus deeply on the kind of things mentioned above everything will look alright..
Dilruba is right when she says ” somehow l forget this when l am in the Ashram / Resort as l get carried away by the energy …. inside “
The last ten posts or so have elevated this forum to a higher level..Very healthy non-emotional but pragmatic discussions. If this can be seen by concerned people it will be good..
Kranti … about addiction … whether it is alcohol ,drugs , l somehow feel it doesnot matter … as we are also addicted to the computer but we are exploring … lam not in any sense trying to defend this alcohol addict resort resident but look more deeper
Actually not we but l are addicted
Even in big organizations where the competion is cut throat one thing which is valued is ‘ Transparency ‘ although how Transaparent is that ‘ Transparancy ‘ is subjective..
So a palce like ‘ Meditation center ‘ which is just a trust managing to keep alive a masters vision needs to be very transparant.. By transparanecy i dont mean they need to throw open the details on finance and day to day management .. But more transparency in terms of Idealogy and why things are not happening the way it is supposed to be etc. Ultimately the place is run FOR all the Osho sannyasins in the world and they need to be satisfied with the way things are run ,the kind of meditations / therapies available and space available for creative / meditative expression ..
It is alright Dilruba.. Me too Internet addicted.. But i am trying to move away from that habit. except for participating in this forum..
I said that point as a responce to Prem’s point that the place is being run by Non-Meditators and Smokers..Certainly it has its impact..If it is true.. Not sure how we can ignore that and get along unless we accept that the people running the show are more like Corporate Excecutives and they dont have to be meditators.. But Osho’s buddhafield is supposed to be Buddhafield and not a corporate..is it not?
If I am running that place, every morning before i read Times of India or International Herald Tribune, i will go through such kinds of posts we are writing here.
How His people are feeling, will be my biggest concern, the way Osho used to know every single detail from His secretaries; how my people are doing!
There used to be even a small box for letters for Osho, and i am sure many people who wrote the letters to Osho got the reply from His secretaries.
People were not feeling alinated, they felt cared…
It is the basic principle of the hospitalty industry.
but the problem is people are running the show without any emotional support of the patterns as it is neither a mystery school nor a spa or resort. it is like a child who has got the hands over the Indian spice box and is enjoying mixing red with yellow, white with brown, turmeric with salt, peffer with chilli…..
People who write the griviences are not the enemies, these hard hitting words are not the game spoilers, there must be a deep rooted love and caring otherwise thousands of people are passing the koregaon Park roads and 99.9% don’t even bother whether something like Osho exists. For them, if the resort close down will be as simple a matter as it is for me to see Reebok store getting closed and some cloth shop, “Opening shortly”. who cares!
Kranti … somehow l feel …. l / we have to go beyond any duality … meditators / non meditators whatsoever that maybe ….. only then we will reach / get the truth ….
Kranti /Amrito & for all seekers … reading Osho’s Books l have loved ”
wiil open something new and a movie ” Meeting with remarkable Men ” is also one such … jus sharing
” People who write the griviences are not the enemies, these hard hitting words are not the game spoilers, there must be a deep rooted love and caring otherwise thousands of people are passing the koregaon Park roads and 99.9% don’t even bother whether something like Osho exists. For them, if the resort close down will be as simple a matter as it is for me to see Reebok store getting closed and some cloth shop, “Opening shortly”. who cares! ”
Wow!
Dilruba
Shantam said ” How His people are feeling, will be my biggest concern ”
With due respect to your views if people who are running the place are Non-Meditators & Alchoholics & Smokers ( IF that is the case.. I am NOT at all saying people are like that as I dont have any direct info.) they will not have the sensitivity to & anxiety to know ” ” How His people are feeling “.. It will be another day in office for them.. for managing day to day affairs as long as it goes..
I was looking in my memory to recall few biggest lies of our time told by the “state run media” and used by many without proper verification.
it will be a mind storming, if my fellow friends enrich this list.
Few lies are quite innocent and sweet, they don’t hinder our path but make life colorful, like the joke,
Boy to Girl,” Please, take me atleast once in the mouth. i promise not to cum.”
Girl,” No i can’t. i have never done this!”
And here are the best three lies_
1. Rajneesh is a sex guru.
2. Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
3. Osho’s photos were used as wall papers!
Shantam let me add few more
1. 17, Koregaon Park is a Resort
2. That we are Countries
3. There exists no love between Sanyassins
Shantam one more lie … this is for Kranti
4. Alcohlics & Smokkers are not Sensitive
Kranti … about non – meditators … there is always a chance to be one … to go beyond … if one who am l / anyone to judge that anyway
what l mean is there is always a chance to be a meditator
Yes Dilruba.. A Non-meditator can become a meditator
What about a Meditator becoming a Non-Meditator?
I meant a meditator who had lived with a buddha for 30 years.. Not someone who has started meditating
Yes that does not matter … this my Truth …what l have experianced
well. I have been out for a workshop so now I pick up the discussion.
first. shantam, the expression Cashram was invented in the seventies when people were expecting a place like a gandhi ashram where everything is free or you just give a small donation. so they were outraged by the fact that in pune thet had to pay for everything even to see Osho.
regarding the artificial energy of the place. it was always a complain. people in the seventies complained that the place did not look like an indian ashram, but rather like Venice beach in california.
It has always been so.
Keerti, regarding you comment on my lying. come on! I was there when the bombay police came complaining that alcohol was being sold ( this was 98, 99) without a license in the ashram. when i asked dyanesh what was the problem. he told me that they had ” secured” ( euphemism for bribing) the pune police, not bombay´s.
The authorities in pune had been bribed to allow the place to be there… you know that!
The metal structure tent was illegal. I said nothing about the podium. this is not a lie. find out for yourself.
to me all Sanyassins are meditators … maybe this will be better for u to understand
When the Shah of Iran was thrown out,it was just such a moment of great celebration for all the old religious people who had been marginalised by his pro-western stance.
Then they got the Ayatollah.
Watch Out Kids!
Marx … why fear the unknown …. lets live in the Eternal now .. if you dont mind …… there is nothing to loose any which way
Anthony nice to have you back.
I am happy that out of my many long posts in your absence, you could find two points worth mentioning.
I agree that Cashram was used quite often but not so much.
I hope you have read Prem Buddha’s post, the sannyasin who is coming to Pune for 34 years. He seems to be more balanced than most of us here.
Same is true about the lack of energy.
YOu know there is a limit about everything. To empty the bowls, once or twice a day is normal, ten times a day is diarrhea and when nothing happens it is constipation.
And legal and illegality of the Buddha hall beam.
The guys were adamant to remove all the signs of podium. Unfortunately court stay came a bit late otherwise Pandora would have been saved.
Incidentally it was almost the same time when Osama and his killers have destroyed the centuries old , world heritage Buddha Statue at Hind Kusch region.
Where there is a will there is a way. When the boss decides, clerks follow…everything else is irrelevant for the big sticks and small integrity.
This human attitude is all over and i hope this myth will also get broken that being with the Master, living Master you get backbone..
After seeing so much drama, believe me Anthony, i will prefer you as a friend/enemy in spite of the differences, than many well known sannyas names.
As it is said,” intelligent enemy is better than a stupid friend.”
If you are in a speaking terms with Amrito/Jayesh, please tell them the significance of the above proverb.
Shantam. I am not in speaking terms with jahesh and amrito. they do not even know me, althou they have spoken to me many times. If I am easily identified, my work as a researcher can not be done. i just hang around, listen, see, observe, talk, etc.
They way i see this dispute is that the main reason because agreement is so difficult it is because there is not so much difference between the people of OFI and OIF… actually they were all once in the same side.
This may seem contradictory. if they are not that different why can´t they meet? exactly because of that. they work in similar ways, but have different ideas.
Neelam, tathagat, Keerti, vairagia, Vedant, etc were once doing exactly the same that the inner circle is doing to people who did not fit in with their understanding.
Now they say oh, banning is so bad , so inhuman… they were doing it all the time.
now the only difference is that it is not nice to be YOU, the one banned. that is all.
Dilruba told a clear story:
“Neelam Maa …. somehow lam reminded of an of incident … which might / maybe start the process … of fulfilling this Dream of a OSHO Explosion of a Grand Celebration in 2010 Jan 19 th …. not comparing anyone to anyone but
Since l was a witnesss to it …. in 1995 / 96 and Utsav was banned in the Ashram for spreading Sw. Chaitanya Bharti ’s pamplets in the ashram and going to the press …. Utsav sent a message thru me to you to please allow him to come to the Ashram …. as he was misssing the Ashram / Buddhahall … and your reply to me was … tell him to write an letter of apology to the Ashram ….. as this is the policy of the Ashram when Osho was in the Body …. l passed on the message …. which he did …. and was allowed to come
l know this has nothing to do with the Present situation … but … maybe … jus could not help writing / sharing here
… lam sure you get my point …. ”
Now do you see Neelam writing an apology?
She knows the way, she was part of the same gang.
They work alike
But they do not think the same…
and that can not be helped.
I will take it as a compliment on behalf of all the gangs of Osho.
I have already mentioned that both the “gangs” are left and right arms of the same master. Once the stiffness disappear, they can hug and NAMASTE again.
Once it happens, i don’t mind what the world at large thinks about Osho and His people. You can call them gangs, thugs, unaware bunch of people and more.
PS- This discussion here is not time pass. These are the strokes of Physiotherapy for the stiff limbs.
Neither we need money or the girl/boy friend for this work. I believe, massage given out of love works better……. This forum here is a “Power of Love” at work…..
They work alike
But they do not think the same…
and that can not be helped…
Here i disagree. Thinking of the people can be changed……Come on Anthony , even NUN can try the oral!
yea, even a nun could try it…
but it is unlikely that she will
Anthony …….. who cares whether she does / does not try it …
but the guy who wants a Blow job …knows how to get it …
l did hear Sheela long ago on TV [ recording ] saying Bhagwan loves a blow job !
yea, even a nun could try it…
but it is unlikely that she will…
But you know, Osho’s nuns are the real suckers (sorry for the street language, ladies. sometime Zen follows the life this way).
and His monks… I must look inside for the right words!!
it is all about hope. When was the last time, we have heard the words, “NEW DAWN”
Hurry up seekers, get the chance to capture “New Dawn”, otherwsie like ORANGE, some telecom company will catch this.
Neelam, tathagat, Keerti, vairagia, Vedant, etc were once doing exactly the same that the inner circle is doing to people who did not fit in with their understanding.
Where is the inner circle who is doing this and that. cCan you let their names out. The three names mentioned above were in the original inner circle and were kicked out, because one was thief one was arrogant one was coward. and those who remain, one was Miss Universe, one was Miss Earth one was MR..Ryan Air and Yes the best of them came a bit later, Ms. Maharashtra and Mr. Rajasthan…..
What so ever may be the names, it also shows about us. Are we good punchers, when the others are tired wounded and out or one dares to punch someone who is powerful
There are still many people who still think that the king is always the incarnation of lord Vishnu, the way Nepal used to believe for more than 250 years.
Individual names in any organisation are like chicken wings in a packet. You can fry and eat; this one is Timy, this one is Jimy this one is Tuti…
This one is shantam and that one is Anthony and so on… but the living Cock is more than all this.
what a load of crap. the level of discussion here reminds me of a childrens playground, absolute crap. twat after twat after twat.
Swami … we happen to be products of that very Absolute Crap
you might be, I am here more to point to the crap.
Is anyone here apart from me and keerti, that is actually a lover of osho?
Alok John, I can also vouch for him, he is an Osho lover.
Swami …. Truth is in the Nakedness somehow … Sorry didnt mean to hurt any body … only going where ‘ He ‘ is pointing the finger …
whatever, you didn’t say you were an osho lover. did you.
please define “Osho Lover”.
if you don’t know ……………..
it’s just two words…Osho…lover….
.easy..
I love Osho. I admire the man. I have dedicated years of research to him and his work.
Otherwise I would not be here.
But I am also critical and can voice out those criticisms. and more important I do not idealize the man. i can see his flaws, mistakes and arrogance … but it is all part of his beautiful humanness.
So yea. I consider myself an osho lover…but one who has been in a relationship long enough to see the person beyond the projections of the ” in love” period.
Actually i have been a lover for 23 years…. that´s a long time. idealizations just fall out and the beauty of reality sets with no conflict.
He is my beloved.
Thank you Anthony, I was going to add you but I stopped myself, knowing the thought around your never having actually ‘taken’ sannyas. no matter that. Your statement is bright and clear.
repeating words is not the same as a definition of the words.
Definition of definition:
“A definition may either describe the meaning that a term bears in general use, providing a descriptive definition, or that which the speaker intends to impose upon it, a stipulative definition. A definition may be used to introduce a new term, or to prescribe a new meaning to a term which is already in use.
A descriptive definition can be shown to be “right” or “wrong” by comparison to usage, but a stipulative definition cannot, although it may lead to contradictions[3].
A precising definition extends the descriptive dictionary definition (lexical definition) of a term for a specific purpose by including additional criteria that narrow down the set of things meeting the definition.”
Swami … OK … l say now …. that lam an Osho lover and to me all sanyassins are Osho lovers and they are all doing his work … in their own way .
Garimo …. Gratitude for sharing your understanding
So Swami with no name is creating the list of Osho lovers. Is it not childish like in the play ground?
who is in my side belongs to my daddy, rest are foreigners!
And dear Swami, if by chance you put Shantam Prem in “your Osho lover” list, i will stop using this name on this forum.
Selective Mentality in my feelings has nothing to do with someone like Osho. He was not a head master of an elite school.
Many times i heard someone saying, he looks s stupid how he can be a sannyasin, he is not meditating but all the time running behind the women, how he can be sannyasin, he is working in the govt. job, how he can be sannyasin, He has not done vascetomy, how he can be sannyasin…
If the forest Air makes someone dizzy, person must stay indoors with house plants.
We all are here because we love Osho ..
Swami..It is dificult to be serious and sane all the time..sometimes the posts will not be very meaningul or may turn into gibberish.. It is alright since we are doing gibberish with awareness.. Almost everyone here have been around Osho and meditation for pretty long time.. I seem to be the youngest with 17 years or so on the circuit..
Please..let us refocus and start requesting the High Priests of Osho what is possible and what is not possible?
Basically Keerti, we love those too who have nothing to do with Osho. Being in a public domain, people have all the rights to shread Osho’s threads and his people’s behaviour including mine, yours, theirs. Only they must use the right logics to convey.
Heard a story from Kavita this morning. When a Brahmin’s son went home after Osho sannyas, father replied,” If you were so eager to take sannyas, what was the need to take this from A Bania! (Generic word for the people who belong to business community)
This is also a logic, nice and hilarious.
While typing, got an sms joke, it fits with the post..
Son enters parents room and sees something unusual,” He shouts, ” Mom, this is not fair, you are taking anything in the mouth and to me you don’t allow to suck my own thumb. it is unjust.”
rubbish, why don’t you just go to some site that is for whatever it is you are into? instead of spreading your shite here.
Oh yea….
Go on swami.. bring out more… it is nice..but please write your full name.
my name could be father Xmas, it is unimportant. I am a sannyasin of Osho, you shantam prem are a shite spreader.
Just a suggestion swami/Ma
Please use spell check… i think Google has this tool
Than shite will become shit.
And specify if you can, what is your grudge. Where your religious feelings have gone hurt by me. what you expect from this site, that we share Osho discourse files.. as many are doing at facebook. Please go forward.
And the name i am asking not because i have the desire to settle scores with you. Trust me, you will not be hurt/harmed/banned. At least not from me.
But when someone writes somewhere, even it is a negative propaganda, one must show the courage to tell about oneself and stand behind the words.
If they prove wrong in the final conclusion one must be proud enough to utter an apology too.
So if i am a shite spreader, please take care not to put your feet over that, otherwise MA will be unhappy to look at the shitty feet of a grown up Swami.
Swami … there is nothing to loose ….. there are different kinds of shit …… some become holy shit …. like cowdung … and there are some places in tribal lndia …. where cowdung is spread all over the house as a disinfectant …. so a person who spreads it as a way of living cannot be condenmed …. as long as the point we all are making is somehow taking us to the Truth …. So just chareveti chareveti Dear ….
You shjould be clear that you are anti sannyas and that you are anti Osho.
Swami … with due respect you ….. you seem to be very virtuous
… but Osho & his sanyas … is going beyond virtues … thats exactly whats happening here …. so look deeper .. jus a suggestion
rubbish. shit spreading is what I see. look deeper into the shit? I am here to point at it. and please keep you virtuous crap.
Swami … Start another topic / thread … lets see what is you creativity … !
your
swami you are confused. shantam prem is a long time indian sannysin who is now living in germany to be close to his kids. so he is a bit bitter because he did not have a vasectimy, otherwise he would still be in india, perhaps going back and foth from pune to goa, having a bigger variety of western girlfriends ( In india for a western woman an indian in the ashram is ” exotic”, in europe he is just another one)
So, yes, shantam sometimes comes out a bit bitter… he also works for two euros an hour… I would be bitter for that too. but ultimately he is quite intelligent and definitely an osho lover. as far as you are concerned, I can not say the same for your intelligence, but no doubt you are an osho lover.
although, I did not know you were making a list…
yes they are bitter, I care not why. As for there love of osho ..perhaps they used to ..but those days have gone for them, only the bitterness is left. I wish they would stop being destructive to the threads.
I am not making a list, I am more exposing that there are people here who are anti sannyas and anti osho.
Swami
As i said earlier sometimes the psost become gibberish.. It happens..
But Shantam is not bitter against Osho.. he is just bitter against the way things are run at Pune..He is always in Love with Osho and thats why you see him getting tense while discussing things which are done against the vision of Osho
And also dont take pain for exposing people who are anti Osho / anti sannyas.. In that process you will become bitter..
Take it easy Swami..
Perhaps they should try starting with ….I am bitter against Osho and sannyasins because………….
Personally I still save my thoughts on all except the people I have nominated.
What about you?
What kind of a sannyasin are you?
Swami .. my Dear it is very easy to judge others …. but let me tell you Osho is a Multi – Dimentional Master .. his compassion covers every one …. if your Trust is Deep you will see it … lam not saying anything here without experiance … and lam not
different from you …
yawn yawn, multi dimentional yawn.
What kind of sannyasin and Osho lover are you then?
my Dear if you tell me your name l will tell what kind of sanyassin lam …. lam telling you my truth …. so please tell me your true name
Me? .. I risked every aspect of my life be it relationships , earlings or career to lead life the way Osho taught me..So i think I Love Osho
Swami John..antar john. So?
What diff does that make to your sannyas?
lf you dont tell your true name … that means you deep down dont trust Osho
I think I love Osho … I risked this or that rubbish.. you are lying to us and perhaps to yourself kranti….
I am enjoying this innocense in the discussions that came with this change .. It is better to talk non-seriously about who loves Osho and why and all rather than all the time talking about Big Issues assuming great things will happen..Let us take it easy ..In that sense a thanks to Swami..
” I think I love Osho ‘ was meant to be funny ..Swami..
here to help you…is the simple immediate response ….from an Osho lover….. unreserved comment from Anthony.
Actually i have been a lover for 23 years…. that´s a long time. idealizations just fall out and the beauty of reality sets with no conflict.
He is my beloved.
” you are lying to us and perhaps to yourself kranti…”
I think it is both. I will not lie after i get enlightened.. Promise.. I will SMS you after getting enlightened..
How it will help me Swami.. If it helps Anthony it is more than enough..
You dont know about Anthony.. He is a P.H.D on Osho ..Dont fall in his trap..
I have felt A’s love for Osho and sannyas.
Really Swami?.. Did you feel Anthony’s love for Sannyas?
This is why i warned you about that P.H.D guy..
Just check back with Anthony on this..
Seems like it was Anthony who fell into a trap…
He’s now the top of the list!
Our example.
Ya.. Possible.. But if Anthony Thompson .P.H.D.. Expert in Pshychology falls in to a trap then we seriously have to discuss few things here..
Kranti … new thread by Shantam !
Wow beloveds, Swami without name has a good time. I hope that he has felt the energy of His people here too.
I guess he is living in Pune most probably going every day to the ashram and he has a girl friend and girl friend has a visa card and swami thinks it is a Master’s card!
Anthony thanks for giving me the certificate of Intelligent Osho lover and also for your psycho analysis for the bitterness….
But may be you can look it as an expression of a collective sannyas bitterness.
There are always few percentage of people who feel warm under any regime. As many of us have seen the ashram world a bit closely because of HIS grace, one can feel it as a miniature laboratory of our humanness, its past and future, its meanness and compassion.
Somehow we have gone collectively in that trap where practice is for others, preaching is for us.
And as i see in the west, the age of crusade is in the forgotten past.. people simply ignore what they don’t like. Empty Church buildings are the example… on the basis of that Osho created a new version, it was destined to fill that vacuum….His people had this sacred responsibility to win the heart energy with the actions, with the presence, with the attitude…It needs work, passion and mutual respect for the other fellow travelers who are less white, less rich, less beautiful and so on.
20 years of Osho leaving the body, world has generated unprecedented money in spite of recession.
With the right attitude. there should have been all the time festival, 365 days of festivity at the ashram….. House full kind of atmosphere at multiplex and what you see, a box office clerk reading Echrat Tolle…!
Sorry, beloved Swamis and Mas… if i have hurted your sentiments.
more of your bitterness. ow the empty churchs ow the swami with a girlfriend with a mastercard…ow ow ow….
“Neelam, tathagat, Keerti, vairagia, Vedant, etc were once doing exactly the same that the inner circle is doing to people who did not fit in with their understanding”
The above paragraph of Anthony i had taken yesterday for the base of one of my post. After that Swami’s vocal coards have gone open, his fingers are creating nice one liners..OW OW .
So our little Swami. if he is not in Puna… must be in Delhi or Dharamshala. Jsut guess of an ex. investigative lawyer. OW OW
But this much sure i am willing to bet, Swami is an Indian, like me. We have the same wow wow…
Welcome Swami…. this Osho forum will be incomplete without you.. So many different kind of flowers.. Um…
“Maybe that is where Shantam’s “devotional” tilt needs to be given a shaking. He speaks as though these front guy fellows were a special breed. No mate, only the shit gets to the top of any organisation, including Osho’s.”
I agree here. I have heard the Neelam was banning people too while thinking that Jaesh was enlightened. When he banned her he quickly became unenlightened.
” Welcome Swami…. this Osho forum will be incomplete without you ‘
Yes we need jokes once in while..Otherwise topics become serious and lose balance..
” I agree here. I have heard the Neelam was banning people too while thinking that Jaesh was enlightened. When he banned her he quickly became unenlightened ”
Think what we see here is change fo approach from People after they got banned.. .It looks obivious.. But may be they were in restricted environment earlier and they were not in agreement to certain things although they had to along management decision ..Now that they have their own places to run they may not be doing..BUT if they are doing banning kind of things to protect their own centres then it is a clear proof of what you say Chetna..
Somehow Chetna i am not the paid or unpaid advocate of Neelam or Keerti, neither i have any personal enmity with Jayesh and Amrito.
If i have to choose between my left hand and right hand, being a right hand-er i will choose right hand, it means the second team.
But why for God sake, i cut the left hand, just it has some pimples..
And as so called seekers of truth, it is our utmost obligation towards oneself to be free and fair. Underdogs are not always right but to cheer for the upper dog is also not very intelligent, even though,”Winner takes it all” was true during ABBA time, and many still believe. Now in the age of Aquarius motto is Win-Win.
Secondly it is a very childish logic put forward by many people all over the world, First he slapped me than i slapped him, than his father came to beat me and to see this my father took the gun… and boom!
Therefore one requires a certain systematic approach. There are still certain belts in the world where you get shot on the streets because you have opposed the ruling authority of that Kremlin.This post is for those brave men and women who kept the integrity of their pens and now key boards in very adverse circumstances.
As Dilruba mentioned in some post something like, Osho changed the image of the Masters, we are going change the image of disciples.”
BUT if they are doing banning kind of things to protect their own centres then it is a clear proof of what you say Chetna..
As far as I know this is happening. For example, Arun is not welcome in Nisarga or Osho world.
I bet there are many others misfits.
I find it too much, and stay away from all these politics. In our centre in London all Osho lovers are welcome and group leaders. Then it is u to participants to like or dislike a particular style.
Beloved Chetna
Who told you Arun is not welcome at Nisarga.
all sannyasins are welcome. Yes, he may not have got invitation to lead a camp, but it could happen.
Here’s no rigidity here.
One doesn’t have to somewhere as a camp leader only
He is welcome.
Love to you
Swami Keerti, that’s very good to hear. I thought if he was not allowed to do camps there he is also not allowed to join in general.
The beauty of corner, Mom And dad shops is that it gives a warm feeling. People are aware from who they buy the stuff. Super malls have their own ways of working, non personal yet efficient with their global reach.
In every city the best is always to patronise the small shops, everybody knows everybody else with their first name, and How are you Swamji today?..kind of energy. yet not to hinder the winds of change coming through the big malls.
on an another example one needs doctors in private practice and also the hospitals and also hospitals with a team of research oriented doctors.
Corner shops owner are nice with their customers but have their own envy and fears like everybody, they are worried from the other racial groups in the same line of business.
In the inner dimension, Osho is still the one and the only one who created a multi product super mall. We owe to Him neither to allow inventory goes down and also the workers and consumers have a cordial relation.
As the concept is so far out that seems a bit chaotic but will be sorted out. This is the Future.
Yes.. It is nice to hear an assurance from Sw Keerthi that everyone is welcome and no one is prevented. Some positive point out of all the discussions we had..
Dear Chetna,
In regards to your remarks about Pune phoning Western centers and threatening to close them down if they let Arun in, please see the May/June issue of the Viha Connection where we printed a full-page ad of Arun’s and Jyoti’s visits to US and Canada Osho centers. I have not heard of Pune calling or closing down any of the Osho centers before or after these visits. Both Jyoti and Arun gave sannyas to many new people. You can check http://www.tapoban.com for beautiful photos from Arun’s tour. Arun has many invitations for next year, and he will be most welcome to return.
Love,
Dhanyam
‘I have not heard of Pune calling or closing down any of the Osho centers before or after these visits.’
Dhanyam, I have heard directly from Centre leaders. Last time was in Italy in April 09. Many sannyasins have been sick of Puna dictatorship and basically went ahead with Arun’s programme. They didn’t regret a minute of it.
If Puna is run by drunkards no surprise then their behaviour and understanding of meditation.