Osho Trademarks finally cancelled in the US: Order released by Federal Court
Message from Swami Chaitanya Keerti.
On January 13, 2009, the Trials and Appeals Board of the United States Patent and Trademark Office in a strongly worded decision said that Osho cannot be trademarked. This decision was the culmination of a legal battle started nearly 10 years ago by Osho Friends International (OFI), an association of Osho meditation centres and disciples from all over the world, against Osho International Foundation who wanted to be sole owners of the trademark.
Osho International Foundation (OIF), Zurich , filed a Notice of Appeal on March 12, 2009 with respect to the January 13, 2009 decision by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board. OIF filed their appeal in the Court of Appeals of the Federal Circuit in Washington DC . The appeal was about the correctness of the decision rendered by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board on January 13.
Later on, OIF decided to withdraw the appeal and filed for withdrawal in the Court of Appeals on June 19, 2009. Osho Friends agreed for the withdrawal. Recently the Federal Court released the order dismissing the Appeal. The trademarks of Osho in the US now finally stands as cancelled. It is expected that the cancellation may soon be reflected on the website of USPTO where the trademarks had been listed.
Free downloadable Osho audio-video discourses will soon be live again @ http://www.oshoworld.com.
Please wait. Thank you for your patience.
for further information please contact
naina@oshoworld.com
Warm Regards
Swami Chaitanya Keerti
That’s just great to hear that your Osho audio mp3′s in English and Hindi on oshoworld.com will be available to listen to and download soon. I look forward to it for sure.
Dear friends at OFI.
As one of the many friends whose work has been impacted by the New York decision, I want to thank all of you responsible for the great work you all have done- again.
It has been a long journey- ten years is a long time, but in the bigger picture of things (if I possess such a grandiose outlook) It most likely will remain and continue to be seen as a landmark case that will impact many, many seekers way beyond the realm of those who either know or love Osho. No less importantly, it may be used many individuals or like-minded groups who find themselves in similar situations of intimidation or blackmail by the powers that be.
The metaphor of the ‘Strength of the Rose’ has perhaps never been so apropos as it now seems from this recent decision. One only wonders why it took so long!
I certainly have had many bouts of wondering where my old friends spines were over these past years since being served (and honored with) my first banning over 18 years ago. I can hardly count the times that I have heard from close friends or even past collaborators of the many Osho festivals I have organized; ” Let it go Harideva” or “What is this thing with the friends at the Resort that you keep on harping about” or “Why do you need to make them the enemy, they are doing such good work…”etc. I admit that I felt very alone and sad at times but I also know that I was not unique in receiving this kind of ill informed feedback or suffering the sometimes down fe eli ngs associated with them.
While we may find ourselves basking in the d eli ght or righteousness of the American courts decision, it is not a time to stop. If we are honest, we recognize that there still remains for our friends in Europe, Russia , and beyond many of the same issues to deal with in terms of intimidation from OIF. In deed, the sly foxes in New York have not been caged and will not go quietly; there is every chance they are regrouping, with lessons learned, for an attempted ‘Tour de force’ legal comeback in Europe this summer.
It is understandable that for some of us there may be thoughts of ‘We have done more than our share, let the ‘others’ now take up the cause and do there fair share…’ Once again, this is more than understandable. Who in their right mind would, after having run an extended marathon would be willing to down a quick glass of water only to find themselves at the start of yet another 20 Kilometer run! My hope is that all of these efforts have been done in the spirit of celebration and love. In THIS kind of heart space, it is my understanding that we would rejoice at having another go of it… It is after all a good game!
Be that as it may, this in no way precludes offering our friends in Europe and beyond our help. At the same time I cannot presume that many Osho lovers would want to run the same race. I have witnessed the time and great amount of financial resources that it took to arrive at the good news from New York . I suspect that those individuals or centers who are well enough informed of the continuing implications of Jayesh and company’s crusade might not want to take on such a legal challenge.
This summer, many, if not all of the Osho center leaders will meet for their annual get together. There will be many topics discussed and many proposals tabled. I would love to be there because I expect that their will be great energy and excitement and a wonderful rush from hearing of the New York decision.
The 800 pound gorilla in the room this summer will undoubtedly be whether they, individually or as a group, can or will want to press ahead with a somewhat similar defense for their freedom to share Osho’s work. What some in Europe do not know is that the New York decision has little or no impact on the related issues that will continue to be a cause of concern for Osho lovers ’over the pond’.
I want to encourage a continued open and honest conversation with all concerned from both sides of this ongoing story.
I have said continually, and it remains my strong
belief that as different as we might all seem individually and as forcefully opposite our opinions might seem, I hold that there is one powerful aspect of our lives that will forever join us together and that is the love we feel in our hearts for this wonderfully insane/ beyond sane master and Friend Osho.
If we are honest with ourselves, we know that we are not a fixed and frozen entity- we are processes, and in being so we see the thoughts come and go. The heart opens and sometimes closes. We all suffer the identification of feeling like our own persona l winter will last forever to then finding the epiphany and delight of being thrown into yet another love affair. If we are lucky to have learned anything from this life, it is that change is inevitable and that one of the greatest
feeli ngs is that of the ‘Let Go’. Love is the answer if only through the grace of life we can finally really feel it.
A million thanks again to all of you. Spread the word and the joy. Lets keep going for it…
I.H.O., Swami Harideva
July 17th 2009, San Francisco , California , USA
This post can be shared worldwide if you like.
I am reachable at harideva osho@hotmail.com or
haridvaosho@gamail.com
On January 13, 2009, the Trials and Appeals Board of the United States Patent and Trademark Office in its strongly worded decision said that Osho cannot be trademarked. This decision was the culmination of a legal battle started nearly 10 years ago by Osho Friends International (OFI), an association of Osho meditation centers and disciples from all over the world.
Osho International Foundation (OIF), Zurich, filed a Notice of Appeal on March 12, 2009 with respect to the January 13, 2009 decision by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board. OIF filed their appeal in the Court of Appeals of the Federal Circuit in Washington DC . The appeal was about the correctness of the decision rendered by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board on January 13.
Later on, OIF decided to withdraw the appeal and filed for withdrawal in the Court of Appeals on June 19, 2009. Osho Friends agreed for the withdrawal. Recently the Federal Court released the order dismissing the Appeal. The trademarks of Osho in the US now finally stand cancelled. It is expected that the cancellation may soon be reflected on the website of USPTO where the trademarks had been listed.
Free downloadable Osho audio-video discourses will soon be live again @ http://www.oshoworld.com
As discussed in the earlier thread let us see the negative side also if any..What possible misuse can happen because of this? Especially because it is US which is known for such hardcore commercialism and converting hing everything into a business opportunity..
Does anyone want to come in on buying shares in the Mumbai based Osho Brothels Inc.?
I hear they are sky-rocketing,
Opening a world-wide chain next week.
Looks like a sound punt to me.
Keerti?
You could finance a whole lot of meditation in the world with those bonds.
What do you reckon?
I am not tryig to be biased..
But i dont want to go by majority just because they are majority..
Yes.. Osho spoke about freedom , He spoke against having an organization , spoke aginst copyrights. Lot of things he spoke from the view point of what is truth & what is ideal..
But there are things which needed to be done because the world around you is functioning within a certain framework, Osho spoke against having countries..having one world .. But he needed a passport and VISA to go to US? Didnt he?
He did abide by rules wherever there was no other practical alternative.. Ideal situation is not possible in a practical situation..But he had to talk about ideal world and truth anyway.. He had to speak about HEALTH while also agreeing to give medicine to you for the mental diseases… He did agree to create an organization after his life.. Knowing how Osho flew with change he would have simpley accepted the need for Trademark and Copyrights
May be just may be with the LEGAL WIN on trademarks we have failed..or atleast beginning ti FAIL..
As i said earlier i have lot of respect for people who filed the case and who want to free Osho from trademark and copyrights with all the good intentions..May be good intentions need not result in good results.. May be we have lt the ‘Osho’ free enough to be corrupted by dirty hands..
My apologies if i have hurt someone
Millions of dollars wasted by both sides for lawyers and expenses for what?
Who is Alpha dog 1 and who is Alpha dog 2?
Dear Friends,
It is inevitable that the US court decision, like everything else around Osho, is controversial and that there are many points of view. I am always surprised what comes up on this forum.
I follow what Osho said about the media: “If they say something positive about me, thank them. And if they say something negative, make sure they spell my name correctly.”
To me it is a matter of trust.
Love to you all,
Dhanyam
Dhanyam,
If you want `Controversy`,you can jst drop your pants in New York or Banhofferstrasse and shout `0sho`,the `Media` will come for free,just a couple of phonecalls…
No need to pay lawyers $$???,000 to make you look stupid
Who is it you trust?
Lawyers?
You know of course that in the Osho Brothel,Mumbai,the girls there,unlike lawyers, will stop screwing you when you are dead.
An honest living,and customers are satisfied,and welcomed back,not banned.
With due respect you Dhanyam,, Are you equating this forum wih media. Sorry i didnt understand your post..
I do agree with you that everything has pros & cons..All i am asking is whther the legal decision is in the larger interests of keeoing Osho’s vision pure.. May be a court decison in INdia would not have impacted anone much.. Nothing changes in acountry like INia whethr there is court decison or not.. But my feeling is US may not be like that.. It will latch on to this as a business opportunity..
We will have postive impact..Few people like you ( Very few ) will run Osho centres with good intentions & authenticity.. But larger number of people will have a free ride.. Even other religions will also jump in and have fun at the cost of Osho..
These are my worries.. I may be completely wrong and paranoid..But.. I am just looking at the issue from whether we were beter off with OIF having total control..
Yes Prem Buddha.. I dont know the kind of money spent.. Knowing what legal batteles in US costs i think it would have been enough to atleast build a new Auditorium or Major real estate investment for setting up few communes..
Thats maavalus Marx ! But Swami says its leela & both parties know that money is also leela [ as long its not theirs ]
l sing & dance to this too, what say Swami?
Groucho,
you have a strong satirical sense, is Groucho Marx your original name or the name you tell at the above mentioned Brothel?
Sometime i wonder why it took 10 years to decide such a simple case. Was it in the Indian courts or the US has gone the Indian way?
Our “Osho” may be the most famous Osho, a one man spiritual industry, as it was mentioned in the newspapers, but the world OSHO is as generic as GURU.
May be the management side should have fought for “Osho Rajneesh” as a trade mark, than it would have been like “Microsoft WIndows” or ” Apple Computers” or Osho written in a certain font or style.
“Rebel Publications” has a trade mark and trade logo, but just Rebel???
One thing is sure, the cronies at New York Headquarters are simply the Yes Man, they can never give the fair and clear advise to the President of the management commatie
And beloved Kranti, one should not worry too much about “Osho” going in the wrong hands….many hands and heads have alreads touched this name with their unwashed hearts.
(and i don’t mean the “Osho Chappels” sellers on the North Main Road.)
Dhanyam
Yes …Trust for the Master and His teachings is beautiful.. You surrenedr yourself to the master with trust..
But i dont think the issue here is a matter of trust. Then why did we take court help? We could have trusted the poeple who were controlling trademarks..
Why do we have gatepasses and AIDS tests for admitting people inside Meditation centres? Why dont we allow everyone trusting them..
And how will you TRUST American society for not hurting Osho with this freeing of trademark..?
I understand Shantam..Dirty hands hurting Osho when he was alive is a different issue.. Osho was always there to keep reviving his vison everytime there was a damage.. ..
Now All we have is His Vision given to us . A vision cannot react on its own.. To the extent the people carrying the Vision maintain purity it will be good..
“I do agree with you that everything has pros & cons..All i am asking is whther the legal decision is in the larger interests of keeoing Osho’s vision pure..”
Dear Kranti,
If you’re willin, could you remind me what Osho’s pure vision is?
It’s been so long for me since he’s “left his body” I’m forgetting.
It’s seeming I’m only having my own vision these days. Is there a pure one that is shared and not individual to each sanyassin? I’m not seeing it if there is. But at least I have my own Osho vision…
Thanks,
-garimo
Garimo , if the ashram would close the moment after Osho’s body was cremated ,that wud be Osho’s Vision.
Now whatever visions we all have is our vision , now we all are responsible equally for this day ,whether we like it
Love to All
Garimo
When i said Purity of Osho’s vision i didnt mean anything complex or esoteric.. All i meant is protecting Osho’s Speeches and Videos with enough legal protection so that all and sundry will not corrupt it..
Can we be sure about it when it comes to even Gita or Bible..How much of that stuff is original and how much was added..
Now we are lucky enough to live in an age where whatver teachings of Osho can be protected..as long as it is possible..Why dont we make use of trademarks and copyrights to protect Osho’s teachings
Why do we look at trademarks and copyrights as something bad.. Infact i am surprised that when everyone is ready to use internet and all kinds of technology for supporting Osho’s vision they are dead against trademarks & copyrights which are nothing but a form of protection abailable ..Whats so wrong about it?
Why should we let the legal protection available to slip out of hands insanely? To me by allowing dirty hands to play with Osho’s name is an injustice we are doing to Osho himself..He would have believed so quickly we will be having this situation.. He was even dreaming that 1000 years from now everyone will understand him.. if only we leave Him alone
Correction ” He would NOT have believed so quickly we will be having this situation.. He was even dreaming that 100 years from now everyone will understand him.. if only we leave Him alone “
Onething i would like to add before someone thinks i have not considred that aspect.. There are reports that even now the Teachings / Speeches / Books are edited by OIF and in that sense Osho vision is being corrupted already.. I honestly dont know about this.. I lack info on this..
If that is true then we are having a different ball game..
Even then we should be fighting against such ‘ editings’ alone not against copyrights itself..
While i posted the above message it struck me..
There was such cry over OIF editing Osho’s Books.. What are we going to do when there are no trademark & copyrights..How will we ensure no one does that..
May be the problem is about yOIF having editing rights.. Thats not good and fair.. So we think everyone should have editing rights.. In essence thats what we mean with this legal battle..
I am aware i am stretching it a bit but the effects of legal battle will not stop with trademarks alone..US alone.. In future it will lead the situation i am mentioning in this post..
Next thing we will be having is some Osho books and Videos with ‘ Made in China ‘ label..
“Why dont we make use of trademarks and copyrights to protect Osho’s teachings”
If only it were a “we” and not the “few” doing the protecting, situations might present themsleves differently.
But for now, it’s looking like the “we” is protecting Osho’s “vision” from the “few”.
Maybe someday later the “we” will find reason to seek protection from those dirty handed people you mention.
fear is a option just as trust is a option.
-g
Garimo you seem to be a torch bearer like Swami C. K ,now doesnt we mean all and few mean some? are you trying to say something ? please clarify what you saying sounds absurd.
Mm.. Those who seek free Osho now WILL have to ask for Legal protection when those diry hands dip their hands in future.. Then there will be new explanation & circumstance on why ‘ we’ need legal protection..It will look justfied also. Human memory is short..
The day you see Osho books with a ‘Made in China’ label will by a day of great rejoicing and celebration for the whole world. I hope it happens soon.
Now
We = Groups who filed the case
Vs.
Few = OIF
Future
Few = Who cant stand what is happening to Osho
Vs.
Them = Dirty Hands
Back to square 1
Only the label/ title will be Osho.. Inside it wll be some XXXXX writing in the name of Osho
Few years back i bought few Audio CDs of Lionel Richie , Kenny Rogers and John Lennon in a Singapore Mall.. After reaching home i realized that all the labels , titles , lyrics and packaging are alrigh except the singers who are different.. It will happen to Osho..
Dont worry Oshobob..Surely and quickly You will get a chance to rejoice.. Osho will make you rejoice in every possible way.. He will not disappoint you
Sguare 1 = being in the moment with what is
Thanx buddy , l find it a circle not square , anyway both
shapes / forms , maya it is , like they say ”only a person who knows baseball will play baseball ”
That was square 0 or when there was no square.
Square 1 was created when ‘ We ‘ couldnt ” be in the moment with what is”..So ‘ We ‘ file a case for a change
In square 2 Change comes and with it dirty hands also
Then ‘ few ‘ will be forced to go back to square 1 with a legal case
But then possibility of going back to square 0 would have become impossible..
Ofcourse someone is going to blast me here saying ‘ No need to back to square and all that stupidity and Change is inevitable ‘ etc etc..Let me wait for the attack..
‘don’t concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory’ bruce lee
or don’t fight a court case for 10 years over the finger
And there will not be a ‘ Return of the Dragon ‘
Unfortunately people who speak in a forum are just that.. Nothign more than that
People who can do ‘ more’ than speak in a forum will do ‘ more’ .. get into a legal battle because they can do more.. not because it is necessary..
Seems The Dragon never went in the 1st place
That was goose..not dragon
You’re lucky Kranti they changed the singers in those CD’s you bought — those original guys weren’t that good anyway….Kenny Rogers was just a chubby mamas boy who tried to image himself as a American cowboy, John Lennon was basically an English art student who was imaged after a slightly modified Peters Sellers persona from the Gong Show in Britain — not a particularly good singer, and Lionel Ritchie…well, he was probably the best singer out of the three, when he was with the Commodores I believe, he sang some pretty good tunes…
remember take it all really really seriously
osho was one for not letting go of things.
Riko: Master how to take the Dragon from ‘ Legal ‘ Bottle ( Battle ) without killing the Dragon
Nansen claps.. and shouts Riko
The Dragon never entered a ‘ leagl ‘ bottle ( battle )in the first place..
Now
No Dragon ,
No Legal bottle ,
No return og the dagon..
Go home and have a tea! and a laugh.
Kranti , probably these guys in the forums who are not power hungry and speak their mind /heart/soul should be heard by the the guys in power[not that they dont have a m/h/s] ,maybe they have become one with power ,Osho always said Dancer & dance become 1 .
Love
People who are still under alchohol impact on a saturday
Dragon = Osho’s Vision
Dancer & Dance become 1
Power and Legal Battle become 1
Atleast in the case of Dancer and Dance , Dance will remain..
In the case of Power & Legal battles what will remain is CHINA.. Dancing in joy..
Oshobob.. I dont know much about John Lennon.. But i do like KG and LR.. They did have some really good numbers during their prime..
By the way, the story of the The Goose in the Bottle, which Osho told and titled one of his books after — The Goose Is Out — is actually a Chinese Zen story. Zen master Nanquan (J., Nansen) talks to the government official Li Ao (J., Riko) about the goose….this is the same Chinese Zen master who “cut the cat in two” — one of frank’s favorite stories I believe…and speaking of frank, where is the London cynic these days, his barbed insights are missed by all, I’m sure….
Frank disappeared long ( Threads ) ago.. Must have got enlightened and may be gone beyond that also..
I doubt it. frank’s most probably eating some fish ‘n chips at some cheap London place, reading some old poetry books of Baudelaire or something like that…
Just Listening Osho in Hindi,” When there are so many opinions, so many logics, wise ones simply drop all of them.”
Shantam ..Can we become wise and drop out of this thread?
Problem is Love for Osho is bigger than ‘ Wanting to be Wise ‘..
Will be appy if someone comes forward and proves me wrong.. with honesty not for gibberish purpose.
That i am paranoid..
Free Osho will not attract dirty hands
We ‘ will not become ‘ Few ‘ and start fighting against ‘ them’.
And there is no hope for China to set up small scale industry using Osho name..
So that i can take a tea and feel relieved that Dragon never went into the legal bottle..It was always out..
Kranti, you are not really paranoid, you just worry too much, like an old woman. Always thinking of what can go wrong, not with what can be the opportunity for expansion with something new.
Remember, that almost all of the Zen stories that Osho used were taken straight from China’s heritage of literature, without any permission, or royalty payments either. And Osho changed all these stories too, to fit with his “meaning of the moment” for them. In other words, he edited all these Zen stories (and Taoist ones too), with any hesitatiion or remorse whatsover. And he took his name from the Chinese Zen literature too, without asking anyone about it.
Why is everyone so worried about keeping this guy Osho ‘pure’ — he’s actually a big thief himself when it comes to other people’s and other’s culture’s spiritual writings. And probably the greatest spontaneous “editor” in the world of these writings too.
Why is everyone so worried about keeping this guy Osho ‘pure’ — he’s actually a big thief himself when it comes to other people’s and other’s culture’s spiritual writings. And probably the greatest spontaneous “editor” in the world of these writings too.
The question is not who is sleeping with whose husband or wife, but how beautifully they are performing the acts of adultery!
For sure Osho has given a new lease of life to stories lying in the junk yard of many cultures.
Others can get the motivation too, to create a better world, better and interesting literature.
Bob, i am also looking for he day when Osho books and MP3 will have the “Made in China” Tag. May be these books will touch more people than the dead, cut and paste published by the high street publishers, the first choice of New York based gang of 5 to 7 people.
So it is life’s way of playing FAIR..giving back Osho to China..Interesting..
But i said Whether it is ZEN or TAO or Buddhism you never know what is original .. There were no trademark / copyrihts at that time otherwise Buddha would have trademarked Bodhi tree..
Now no one would be able to sit under Bodhi tree to become elightened..If no one has done it , go and sit under a Neem tree and get enlightened but not Bodhi tree
So Yes.. Osho freely used every bit of info available in other teachings.. Knowing Osho He would have done it whether there were trademarks /copyrights exists or not..He wouldnt have cared..Then that would have started the legal battles in 1971..
My point is ..Law is there to help you..Take it.. dont deny it..
Infact to me fighting aginst trademarks & coprights is the perfect way of resisting the present moment ( refusing to accept the legal protection available in the present age and saying we will folow what Buddha followed 2000 years ago..And who knows Buddha would have had His own ‘lega’ battles at the villages panchayats ( village courts )..and they were never recorded..
His people and Mahavirs People would have stabbed each other for stealing others teachings.. How do we know..
Just to share with you guys few minor things
Recently i was in Pune and saw these
People wear Mala.. Saw quite a few old sannyasins who live inside wearing mala
Saw even westners namasteying Osho green marble
Saw somone namasteying rolls
Saw people having freedom to express thier love for master in white robe
Lot of things we hear about pune seems to be negative media hype..Things seem to be alright..Atleast from what i could see.
Dear kranti as the grinch says “One man’s toxic sludge is another man’s potpourri”
what you just described about pune for me reveals that osho was right that it only takes about 10 years after a master dies and the living religion is dead.
love
Dear O’bob
kranti: “Frank disappeared long ( Threads ) ago.. Must have got enlightened and may be gone beyond that also..”
O’bob: “I doubt it. frank’s most probably eating some fish ‘n chips at some cheap London place, reading some old poetry books of Baudelaire or something like that…”
This is enlightenment!
Or is it being somebody special with beams of light firing out of their eyeballs?
For all you guys who feel osho’s omniscience beyond the grave, the guy didn’t even know his closest sannyasins were jealous of each other!
For the trademark guys, i’m sorry but you remind me of the sri lankans who got really upset with osho for stealing the name of buddha and the zorbists for stealing the name of zorba.
I’m sorry kranti but sometimes the law is wrong.
If you are a creative person you will understand how deeply wrong copyright and trademarks are, it is an expression of greed gone mad.
Personaly I’m with chuck d on free music not metallica on ownership.
James.You must be supportive of gay rights also.. Thats the trend..
People against copyrights should be against Income Tax , Govt regulations , Traffic Regulations , Police Stations , Govts, Gatepasses and whole lot of of social structures.. But you will not talk against all of these..Because no one wastes time talking against these things and it will not give you ego satisfaction.. You need to step into a Osho forum and talk against copyrights for obivious reasons..
Anyone who speaks against Copyrights just resists a simple legal tool available ..and because it is so simple it is insane to resist..And your resistance to accept only has made it such coplex thing..
I am not supporting copyrights because it is something great valu or it is divinely..NO..It is simple a tool available now..Thats it..
Osho said you should have the intelligence to take care of money which is needed for survival..and we shouldnt live on charity..and that incldes money needed for buying Osho books / Cassettes also..
If you write a book on your own you will know..whether copyrights is needed or not.. OSHO spoke for 1000s of hours and tahats a GOLDMINE.. Everyone can make use of that ..I am not saying everyone wants make use of that for money alone.. But for different reasons..Thats the reason the issue agsint copyrights..Not because copyright is bad. People dont care aboy copyrights available for so many lesser known authors..Why? Because their contribution will not give you mucg benefits.. Osho is a GOLDMINE
And James..You will never look at Osho beyond words..
The reality will bite you when you see a Osho condom in a store and people on the road walk weraing Osho chappals.. And people like you can feel proud..And there will be so many mystic roses with tears in their eyes..People will ignore & forget and get on with life..Insensitively… AND WAIT FOR ANOTHER MESSIAH TO COME AND SAVE THEM WITHOUT REALISING THEY LET ONE SLIP RIGHT OUT OF THEIR HANDS FOR SHORT TERM & INDIVIDUAL BENEFITS.
Dear Friends,
Groucho Marx is one of my favorite comedians.
I didn’t say that I want controversy. I said that it is inevitable.
I trust Osho.
I am not equating this forum with the media.
One question for Kranti: How many Osho centers do you think are checking for AIDS test certificates?
Please keep in mind that original, unedited Osho books and cassettes are available and soon – if not already – as MP3s. Osho World said they will put everything up on their website for free downloading. So Osho’s pure vision is available and not lost.
My shipment of Osho books, published in China, arrived last month. And they are edited by OIF. They have also changed the original title. So OIF, who claims to own tradmarks and copyrights, puts out edited Osho, and Osho World, without trademark or copyrights, puts out pure Osho.
Isn’t it ironical that some people want OIF to own the trademarks/copyrights although they put out edited Osho and are against Osho World who puts out pure, unedited Osho?
Love,
Dhanyam
I whole heartedly accept that Dhanyam.
I mention that in a earlier post.. If OIF is editing Osho books it is not right . But we can fight against such editing..
Again i am aware that inspite of all these trademarks & copyrights piracy , editing kind of things will happen..But doing away with copyrights itself is like throwing the baby with water.. We are playing right into the hands of people who have business & perverison in their minds.
It is inevitable.. YEs..Everthing is inevitable in life.. But that does not mean we as OSHO Sannyasins need to do this fighting ..saying it is going to happen after 50 years anyway..
It need not be OIF..Any organization will do..But one organization needs to legally control unwanted things happening . thats all. If somoen like Swami Chaitaya Keerthi can take control then it will be beautiful.. But thats is different from saying copyrights should not be there at all.
Any financial benefits that is derived out of Osho trademark & copyrights is only incidental.. It can only go towards developing meditation centres..
The real legal battle should not be against copyrights .. It shlould be for creating a strong organizational model which will allow various meditation centres to co-exist beautifully and with legal protections as just a last resort for avoiding unwanted things..
So to me all the energy and monet spent on this legal battle is NOT WELL DIRECTED.. It is like doing Dynamic Meditation and stopping the meditation at the stage of Yahoo! and not doing the silent part.. the larger goal is always OSHO Vision..That will happen by people coming togetheR and not fighting like this..It is too basic logic of life
Few week s back there was a book exhibition in my organization.. There was only one Spiritual Master’s books were selling hot.. It was OSHO.. No other masters books was available.. If you look into the reason why, it is because of the way the books & CDs and Vedios are distributed beautifull under a certain legal framework.. Without that effort i dont think Osho would have so beautifully reached so many people..
One Sw. Chaitanya Kerthi or One Dhanyam will have reach their limitations quickly.. Once these people’ physical stregnth runs out.. What will keep Osho going is that organizational model..& legal framework.. That will be inevitable..
I have expressed my viewpoints only because i thought Osho need to be there as long as possible..Not with the intention of debating.. Once again i am sorry if i have hurt someone.. Especially Swami Chaitanya Keerthi.. Infact he is the one who encouraged me to express my viewpoints without hesitation..
Thank you Swami Chaitanya Keerthi and everyone for the love and view points..
I am certainly not against Oshoworld.. I can not even visualize myself against someone like Swami Chaitanya Keerthi.. It is disgusting for me..I am not that insane..It is just that my viewpoints are directed towards different kind of set up..End of the day i am also going to flow with inevitableness of life.
Dear kranti,
I am for the rights of everyone
I am for freedom
I am for the rights of idiots who believe in a dead man because they get intellectually stimulated.
Homophobic sannyasins beautiful; because osho said so right? like the bible says animals don’t have any feelings.
THINK FOR YOURSELF
I am not saying don’t use the law. I am saying don’t do something just because the law says so.
But i know from your posts you are a blind believer…
osho must be turning in his grave
Thanks James for blindly believing that i am a blind believer.. Can you tell me what i blindly believe? If i blindly believe i would have thought Osho would take care of everything and would not have spent time in this forum
What you say about me is example of blind belief..Not what i am expressing here about copyrights
And Osho will not be turning in his grave because of what i believe or dont belive but because of people who think like ” I am for the rights of idiots who believe in a dead man because they get intellectually stimulated.”
Loss of trademark in the US means that anyone can change dynamic meditation in any way and still call what they offer ‘Osho Dynamic Meditation.’
Now in the US anyone can create any bodymind technique and call it ‘Osho Dynamic Meditation.’
Great!
After Osho’s death Vereesh created the AUM ‘social meditation.’ THis is popular in the UK. We have no way of knowing if Osho would have approved of it, though I doubt He would have recommended as a sole practice. Vereesh was smart enough not to call it Osho Aum Meditation; he wanted to avoid conflict with OIF. There is a long history of probable conmen using Osho’s name to market dubious mindbody techniques, for example the late Dheeraj who created Osho Tibetan Pulsing Healing, a dubious technique if ever there was one, though of course a brilliant name for marketing purposes!
So you see trademark law has its purposes.
Not to forget the one closer to pune… Oshodhara
dear kranti
explain to me why if i decide in the privacy of my own home to touch another man’s penis, which doesn’t harm anyone. I no longer have rights?
It is not a question what you touch in the privacy of your home.. Who cares about it ..
I just said people support popular opinions..No Trademark and Gayrights are such popular opinions which everyone wants to jump in and support..
James..Let us not divert the importance of the topic by talking about who is touching which part of the body of whom.. Please..I request you
dear kranti people support correct rights.
okay simple question: do you support gay rights?
Dhanyam, for accuracy’s sake, I would assume those OIF books that you got last month are “printed” in China, not “published” there as you state. The publisher is Osho International Foundation, which is based in Zurich/New York. I strongly doubt they have a branch in mainland China, which currently bans all of Osho’s works from being sold in their country.
Printing is another matter altogether, now being done by many international companies in China (usually Hong Kong) for production cost savings — nothing more or less. The people with the control over the content, editing, design, size, numbers, photos, and all the rest are the publisher — i.e., OIF New York.
When I say it will it a great day when Osho books are published in the PRC, I mean just that — when the Osho Chinese translations into simplified Chinese are published by Chinese companies (just as they were briefly in 1996-8, before the ban took place), and distributed and sold in mainland PRC bookstores and on Chinese websites, etc.
So, these are two different stories — the printing one being economic, and the publishing one being political. The second one is the big one, as it is linked to everything of Osho’s vision either being allowed or not on the mainland, which, being the most populous nation on this earth, is a huge factor in everything happening in the current global environment.
James..Thats a topic meant for different forum..not sannyasnews..Please..
As an Organization OIF will look at the best possible and economic ways of printing Oshobooks.. Thats the advantage of having a corporate set up where costs and energies are channelised efficiently.. And that efficiency coupled with a legal framework is the need of the hour..not multiple groups trying to prove a point..in acourt and that too a US court..
It’s my impression that trademark and copyright are perfectly useful to protect the rights of ownership. The business laws are old and established many centuries ago, long before US courts existed.
When someone wants to apply for ownership of a TM, or copyright all ya have to do is fill out the online forms and submit the request. But you have to be able to prove ownership of what you are claiming ownership of. If there is a response filed to your claim disputing the ownership claim, or if there is a existing claim… the courts apply the laws and make a determination.
Seems to me the laws worked as designed.
Ownership was not proved and legal protections do not apply.
Alok John, it might be well for you to remember, that Osho’s Dynamic Meditation was not produced by him out of thin air, or even his own experience, as many sannyasins would like to believe.
If you look at the stages of it, they were basically cobbled together from many sources, some contemporary to Osho’s creation of his meditation, and some quite ancient.
To wit:
Stage One: Deep chaotic breathing. This was being developed in the West by Bioenergetics therapists like Alexander Lowen and his group, and was an extension of neo-Reichian technique too.
Stage Two: Catharsis. Again, Western psychotherapy was utilizing this as Emotional Release work, neo-Reichian muscular armoring de-conditioning, etc. It was definitely in the air (and in the books which Osho was reading at the time). I am sure Osho had no experience in India at all of this process of going wild, and ‘letting it all hang out.”
Stage Three: Hoo, hoo, hoo…! Straight from the Sufis of centuries ago, with a bit of football stadium enthusiam of jumping up and down thrown in for good measure. And the “hammer your sex center” bit, was a great bit of marketing aimed at the young Western libertine hippies that were attracted to Osho at the time.
Stage Four: Freeze and Witness. This “stop” technique was a hallmark of Sufis, brought to the West most famously by ‘Big George’ Gurdjieff himself in the 1930′s and later. It was used publicly in his group dance performances too — e.g. the New York City events that Gurdjieff produced in the 1940′s.
Stage Five: Celebrate and dance. Well, this has been prevalent in all cultures since time immemorial. Dancing and having a good time doing it. Not particularly original as a technique.
So, if you are so concerned that someone could modify something that is basically an aggregate series of techniques created by other people — not Osho’s pure creation in the first place — then, your fears are unwarranted I would say. It’s the same situation as with his discourses, which are compilations of other stories, sutras, jokes, etc. woven together with his own personal insights and stories, and of course, his magnetic “presence.” And that last aspect counts for a lot, I would say.
thanks oshobob I had no idea about how dynamic was put together
whats neo-Reichian?
Dear kranti
just nice to know that your transcendental connection to osho’s disembodied formlessness hasn’t managed to change you from being a bigot.
Dear Osho Bob,
You are correct, I should have said “printed in China.” I apologize for my carelessness about this point.
There are people wanting to publish Chinese-language books for the chinese market, but I think presently they may need to be disguised for this to happen.
Timing is everything. Maybe it will have to happen in Hong Kong at some time. Lots of therapists are offering groups in China with good success.
Love,
Dhanyam
There’s a guy in this forum who is continuously talking about Osho brothels…I wonder why he is so obsessed with brothels.
I sat during many Darshan when people came to Osho and he pursuaded them to take sannyas and work for him in the west or east…gave them centres;s name, without bothering about their qualifications or time they spent near him meditating. I took sannyas in 1971 and I was told to travel with Kirtan group next day and teach meditation. It was such a trust from the master. People may betray the master but he trusted all and allowed every Tom Dick and Harry to do his work anywhere in the world.
There was no fear in the Master that theses people will misuse his name, and so what if 90 percent people misuse the name, they will misue it any way, like OIF itself is misusing it in a big way. People are banned on large scale in the name of the master.
Osho had a tremendous trust and gave his love unconditionally, He did not bother that Shivas( the body gaurd who wrote ( God That Failed) and Sheelas will be born. But people like Sheela or Jayesh or Amrito wish to monopolise and dominate others. It is the power hungry who has this craving to dominate others with the excuse that they will keep Osho pure, In reality the purity simply means having the same trust Osho always had towards his people.
When OIF had registered the trademarks in USA, Amrito told me that now we would be stepping on some people’s toes and we intend to do that. I told him these toes are of Osho sannysins and Lovers. This statements takes away the trust and dignity that Osho showered on his people unconditionally.
It shows Amrito’s andf OIF’s paranoia and fear that they did not trust Osho lovers and all Osho lovers had to agree to sign some stupid paper which will give absolute power to a handful of people sitting in New York threatening Osho lovers all over the world, if they publish just one statement without prior permission from this self appointed officials.
Osho lovers around the world had to resist this dominance and the paranoia of these 2-3 people who were becoming all powerful.
If there’s any purity to be maintained in Osho’s vision, first of all they have to learn to be loving and trusting.
I am sure they would not be able to show their face to Osho lovers in the Osho centres around the world, as they have been harsh, unloving to many many such friends. This is the price of power-mongering. They need to apologise to Sannyasins and join the dance with Love and dignity and grace of the master. They will be welcome everywhere. My feeling is now they would be hiding away or shying away because of their own rude violent behaviour.
I trust that moment may come againwhen we can all dance together in deep trust and Love, where nobody is the boss. Being Chairman or secretary were merely functions and not actual posts of power over others as they have been taking it.
Love to you all
I remember that in years 1997 to 2000, occasionally I would see advertisements of Osho Viagra, and I would take those adds to show to one of the OIF members and ask him to take legal action on that. No legal action was ever taken against that, but all the legal threats were being given to Osho Lovers who were publishing Osho books in Japan, France, Russia and other countries. Threats to Web sites related to Osho. Threats to SMS service providers, if send Osho quotes by sms. All the threats and legal actions only against Sannyasins, and not against those who actually misused Osho names. Some times it seems that OIF is only against sannyasins and not other real culprits.
Whenever an Osho Lover and a Sannyasin does any work of spreading mesaage of the master, it is out of his love for the Master. And each Osho sannyasin is His successor in his own right, and there’s no Vatican to command him how he should express his love towards the master. And do you think, only these 2-3 people of OIF are intellegent and all other disciple are stupid. Can there be any monopoly over intelligence?Only some begotten sons!
This attitude is very miserly and against the spirit of Love, Intelligence and Freedom
No-Thought for the Day ®Copyright © 2009 Osho International Foundation
The intelligent person hesitates, ponders, wavers.
The unintelligent never wavers, never hesitates.
Where the wise will whisper, the fool simply declares from the housetops…….
On an organisational level it is always difficult to find out the difference between wise and the fool The common presumption is that who is in the authority must be wise too….When it is like this country, society, organisation family flourishes and when the power is not based on the wisdom but on the length of the stick, than one can have all the cows but not the love and resepct from other citizens, co travelers etc.
In the world of Osho.. most of the people can see…whether the right shoe is in the right foot or somewhere else..
Swami C.K, what l see in the gaps ,is that you have not been very good at communicating with Amrito / Power at the OIF ,so do you think you will be now , or can l say that probably you are more clear now ? or the OIF will ever have a Voice ,which can be Heard like yours [Osho lovers]?
According to Shantam’s postin ,lt means the OIF wana keep waverin and Swami CK / Osho lovers are fools in this case atleast .But l guess this status can change for the better of all Mankind, whateva that means.
Swami Chaitanya Keerthi
Are we saying there is no need for trademarks / copyrights OR the trademarks /copyrights are not in the right hands at present?
Because you are saying you even requested OIF to take action against Osho Viagra kind of people.. Does it mean you accept that there is a need for legal protections but your main concern is that it is being directed towards sannyasins and not real culprits
So it is a different issue altogether .. We need trademarks / copyrights but the same need to be used in a authentic manner and directed towards real culprits.
Osho used to say if we ask a wrong question we have taken a wrong step and we will always get wrong answers..So asking the right question is very important
So are we asking ourselves wrong question?
Are we saying there is no need for trademarks / Copyrights OR the trademarks /copyrights are not in the right hands at present?
Without clarity on this we can not discuss further..Can we?
Oshobob, I take your point that dynamic was “cobbled together” so to speak.
But Osho experimented quite a lot with it, largely with Maneesha, to create an hour’s long meditation : getting the stages in the right order, stages of 10 or 15 mins, getting Deuter to create the right music for it etc.
He experimented a lot with Maneesha to get it just right.
Moreover any meditation will have some component used earlier in history by some master or religion… We can not look at components and say it is copied because meditations are developed to address a basic human dysfunction which has been common throughout history ..
And like Alok John said it is a question of how it is applied to a present scenario..It is applied science
In that sense it is difficult to trademark meditations..What you can do with Oshodhara’s Leela meditation? Legally you dont stand a chance to stop it..
But we are essentially saying is Osho’s name need not be used & linked to all the things which people develop..that can be avoided because over a period of time say 5 years from the date of freeing trademarks and copyrights there will be host of meditation using Osho’ name and it will be possible for anyone getting introduced to Osho to differntiate.. He or she will hear Osho speaking about meditation but will be directed towards something not developed by Osho ..thats makes his teachings also to get disconnected from meditations.
Like Osho Tibetan Pulsing Healing, you will have
Osho Scandinavian Shaking and Osho Timbuktu Jerking. Only in that sense the usefulness of keeping trademarks and copyrights comes into picture
We need to look at the impact more deeper than just saying ‘ Trademarks & copyrights are bad ‘ . It just comes out of our conditioning where we are not used to see trademarks & copyrights for earlier masters like Buddha.. that doesnt mean we can not make use of it now..
.
Beloved Kranti
There’s really no need of trademarks as Osho himself did not want it. Ma Neelam had asked Osho about it. And I guess that very soon her statement will come in the sannyasnews and other forums.
Without this trademarks thing in India, when a couples of years back we came to know that somebody was making toilet seats with Osho’s name, and Osho sewing machines, we got all that stopped. It required some group energy to show and we succeeded.And Osho World has been successful because of help from many sannyasins and centres to prevent OIF in monopolising Osho. As such Osho did not mind his name being used without his permission or the permission from any Organisation, read my earlier letter. Somebody started Osho ceremica in 1997, and he was not a sannyasins. Osho was happy to know it basically encouraged this.
There’s no need of unnecessary paranoia about misuse. OIF needs to mend its own ways about making Osho available 24 carat and should not waste its money taken from sannyasins and spend lacs of dollars on such things. with that ammount they can publish hundreds of books, organise hundres of meditation camps. Sannyasins have been donating large amount of money and it is right when they question how it is being wasted in legal battles, staying in five star hotels etc…then you see the management increasing the entry fees every now and then and still grumpy….
In Osho’s time ( His being in the body) 1990, the entry fees was never more than 20 rupees and you could see him in discourse, listen to him live, now it is Rs 500. Indians are being told in meetings ( even those who have been there for last 40 years) not to look at western women. At the same time Osho Times has been promoting the resort with swamming pool photos of men and women. This is the way to attract and when they get attracted then there’s paranoia that they would look at Western women. I am not saying this with any nationalist approach, but as a point that negation creates attraction even more. As once they hanged a message on the Notice board: “Do not Read Osho world magazine.” and then every Western person started enquiring in German bakery lane where to get Osho World magazine.
ONE OF YOUR SANNYASINS, ANUBUDDHA BHARTI, STAYS WITH US IN CHICAGO. HIS ENTIRE LIFE HAS BEEN TRANSFORMED BY YOU. HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT YOU LEAVING HIM SOON. WHAT CAN I TELL HIM WHEN I GO BACK?
Tell him that even if I leave the body I am not going to leave my sannyasins. I will be as much available as I am right now. But the only thing to remember is — are you available to me?
I am available to you, and I will remain as available forever. If you are available to me then there is no need to be afraid, then a link exists.
And with my sannyasins I am individually linked. It is not a question that you belong to an organization, it is not an organization at all. It is a personal relationship, it is a love affair.
If you are open to me, even if this body disappears, it is not going to make any difference. I will be available to you.
Tell him that he need not be afraid. He can remain in trust and in love.
- DIscipline of Transcendence, Vol#1 , Ch#6 , Q#5
Thank you Swami Chaitanya Keerthi.. Your confidence inspires me.. Let your words sink in me..May be I need to change my perspectives..
With Love
Kranti
Swami Chaitanya keerthi you addressed some points not related to trademarks issues also in your post..
The entry fee being raised to 200 from Rs.20 in 1990 ( 20 Years ) does not seem a big incresae considering the inflation..especially considering the facilities offered inside.. Nowdays even in a namesake resort the entry fee is atleast 250.. so a place with all kinds of meditations , Sophisticated Auditoriums , Swimming pools and Zennis type of facilities ..My feeling is Rs.200 is fair enough although you would like to think for people from different economic levels.
Secondly the fact about Indian Men being nasty is not exaggerated. It was very visible and how they approach women..Especially when the environment is International there will be obivious problems which need to be controlled .. Communicating upfront is one such way..Recently i was in pune and a group of 10 people including some 60 year olds were given advice in this regard. Personally i was not offended as i understood the rationality behind that communication.
I respect your views on Trademarks .. I will see whether i can understand them from a different perspective..although i still look at it as just tool which can be made use of..
Anthony
We miss your insights..This is the ideal thread for you.
You can really add lot of value to the discussion with your knowledge.. Please ..
I was reading some old thread in sannyasnews..quickly this one got my attention
” Relating to the suspension of Tapoban’s URLs, on 14 March 2008, Osho Tapoban sent a counter complaint to Google Legal Support to reinstate the suspension directive, and permit access to Tapoban’s URLs in its search results. The complaint was made in pursuant to the related sections of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA).”
Can we live on trust & love alone in todays world?..There is certainly place for Heart and Love when it comes to personal relationships ( relating as Osho says ) and friends but otherwise?
To add further ..
” Tapoban wish to thank their legal advisors and friends who supported them during the legal process, and helped them re-establish their URLs. They state that these are contributing much to help spread the word of and about their beloved master OSHO.”
Interesting to see .. Osho tapoban taking legal help to spread Osho’s word..At some point we will see more and more of these..
As i understand; osho has worked on His being for lives and in this life too He has given His best through His vision and mesmerising words.
People can say His words, His stories are stolen from this tradition or that, so what, is there another “master thief” like Him.
One men’s contribution is immense.
Again and again i will go on writing the same thing that the controlling brain behind the 17, Koregaon park, have detroyed much with their arrogant attitude. There is no doubt about their intentions, only one thing is there as per the sannyas terminolgy,” Head is overruling the heart in disguise of no mind.”
Why it is so and how long it will remain so, is a question of reserach.
James Morrison, to answer your question “what is neo-Reichian”, I will weave in the Osho storyline too, as that is appropos to this thread and forum.
As Keerti can well remember, back in the beginning days of Osho’s gathering of his people, he called his sannyas movement “neo-sannyas.” There was a two-pronged purpose to this — one, was to connect to the ancient Indian spiritual tradition of ‘sannyas’, and secondly to differentiate it from that same tradition, used the prefix “neo,” meaning ‘new’. A good idea, in my opinion. Actually, Osho never stopped using this technique of taking past spiritual traditions and giving his contemporary spin to them — as found in his discourses, names, malas, clothing, satsang, darshan, zen, love, meditation, etc. etc. etc…..It was basically Osho’s staple methodology — the bread and butter of his way.
As to Wilhelm Reich, who is considered the granddaddy originator of all modern psychotheraputic emotional release theory — including all that was practiced in Osho’s ashrams, multiversities, and so on — his story is important. In fact so much so, that Osho gave Reich sannyas posthumously in one of his discourses, to the applause of his sannyasin audience — most of whom knew how much they were indebted to this man Reich.
But Reich was a complex man, and prone to all the troubles that we all are. He was arrogant. He was stubborn. He was a jealous man. He was a Jew.
If you were a student under Reich, training to be a psychotherapist using his methods, one of the prerequisites was that you had to be a certified MD. Their were no exceptions. First go to medical school, get your degree, then train with him in the area of psychology if you so desired. And he was a very hard man to be around too, if you were a student of his. In fact, he didn’t have many students, he was more of a loner.
Anyway, when the theories that he gave birth to were put into practice in the 1960′s, mostly in the US, these therapists called themselves “neo-Reichians,” to connect to Reich, and at the same time to distance themselves from him. Most were not MD’s. And also, Reich’s name had a somewhat black mark to it, with the Orgone Box fiasco, which resulted in him being put in a US Federal Prison, which is where he supposedly died.
As an aside here — with all the talk on this forum of laws, and the need to use and follow them or not,– here’s the interesting Reich story that most people don’t have much knowledge of…
Contrary to most people’s conceptions, Wilhelm Reich was not arrested and imprisoned for creating his infamous Orgone Boxes, because they were a threat to the sexually repressed society that wanted to squelch his revolutionary theories. He was making and marketing these boxes, with the claim that they could cure diseases, including of course, cancer. There were no clinical trials run to back up these medical claims, as is required in the US. He was served with an injuction by the US Courts for transporting these products interstate for sale, which was illegal. Reich ignored the court injuction, and kept shipping the boxes. Again he was served notice by the courts, and he blew them off. Then they arrested him, tried, convicted, and imprisoned him. But Reich, who was an a man of not long immigration status from Austria, was just thumbing his nose at the American laws. He just didn’t care. He thought his ideas were more true and more correct than the Amercian laws. And he was willing to be imprisoned for it. He was basically a volunteer martyr for his own cause.
Now, bringing this all back again to Osho — who went through some similar travails with the US legal machinery in the 1980′s– and the subject of using names and words for your own purposes…Can we say something is ‘neo-Oshian,” or is that stepping on a trademarked toe? Can the Reich family sue psychotherapists for using the term “neo-Reichian?”
Can the Hindu’s claim that the word “neo-sannyas” tramples on their traditional spiritual heritage? And how about the Zorba family — Zorba the Greek was actually modeled after a real man that Nikos Kazantzakis knew, whose name was Georgios Zorba (‘Zormpas’ in Greek) — can they stop the Zorba the Buddha Osho discos from using the name? Where does all this end…..?
Osho viagra?
Osho condoms?
Osho toilet seats?
Osho dhara?
Osho IF?
Osho FI?
A thousand rupees to one paisa says it`s an Osho laughing meditation.
Hey,did you hear about the truckload of Osho Viagra that was hi-jacked and stolen this morning?
The Police say that they are looking for a gang of hardened criminals
I’ve recently been watching the Meher Baba videos on youtube. (born in Pune, died 1969, very interesting life story)
It seems some things Osho borrowed from Baba, or likely they both borrowed and built on is the concept/story of consciousness being the ocean and individual expression represented as drops. Drops come from and eventually return to the ocean.
Also the story of the metal filings and the magnet. Describing disciples being attracted to a master as metal filings to a magnet.
“Don’t worry, Be Happy”…
As it was the way in the ashram, most of the people were happy to have their gate passes and food passes. Other than these two essentials rest was bicycle or the scooter. More over the last luxury was, if the “beloved” is also on the scooter; the Elixir of life, love and meditation with loud sex.
Osho’s Bob, can you tell from where Osho stole this idea and is there someone else too to create such an explosive recipe, egal”, even if it stolen one!
When i had the privilege to Work with Ma Neelam( I can also write Neelam, but will use Ma as a Prefix; it is also a stupid conditioning but i will prefer to keep it rather than to have Michael Jackson kind of skin)
It was a time of July full moon celebration and she mentioned Osho saying,”you come for Guru or for Purnima(female name), but come and come again.”
So during that time, i have seen people praying(Including me), for only one thing, not enlightenment, not Nirvana but girlfriend/Boy friend.
And when electro-magnetic Fields two have clicked there were common phrase, ” Osho has given me a gift or It is His compassion or this is what mystery school is all about or Unfulfilled lovers of many lives simply come from all over the world in Buddhafield.”
One thing i realised a bit later, if you want to have a permanent relation or uninterupted success, never mention the name Osho. Thousands of time, He mentions something like,” I am not here to full fill your dreams but to wake you up.”
And it is all scientific, If it goes up, it goes down and the master like Osho’s work is to show hell and heaven both.
So in this context i Will not bother at all about the misuse of His name or books etc.
Let the business man use the word “Osho” with their products and we will see them crying in the Mystic Rose, when suddenly firm will go bankrupt!
If someone wants to live dreams and hopes, profits and motives, he should use some other name, osho has tied the landmines of awakening around him.
So tell the people to create “Osho Condom”, and you one will see the Syphlis class law suit against the manufacturer ina year or two!
Dear oshobob
thank you, I have heard of orgone accumulators, are they meant to be like chi boxes or something.
I’m going to go swimming, and then sit and call it jim meditation and anyone who claims to get good results from my methods i will sue or sarah:)
although the insanity of the mind is such that the u.s. are currently trying to ban organic farming and farmers must use corporate technology or be sued
they are trying to patent rice.
greed knows no bounds
or 5 rhythms, how can you trademark dancing??!!
It does remind me of the old tibetan master who used to hire a complete wanker to live in the commune to test the other disciples…
does this all mean buddha could trademark breathing?
The people who are connected with Osho this way or that way, will agree about the absurdity and uselessness of the whole exercise connected with tribunal courts, and how two gentlemen at the helm of the affairs are downgrading the original programme instead of improving the old features and adding the new ones, just exactly opposite what software industry or the mobile industry is doing.
I think most of us have never heard that a organisation wants to attract the customers by cutting down the product features and increasing the price.
Because these two gentlemen are the blue eyed products of the western civilisation, will it not be appropriate if some Osho lover from the west, someone like Bob, who wrote a nice piece about Reich, does their psycho analysis.
Iran’s supreme leader warned the political opposition Monday not to “direct the society toward insecurity.”
“You are being tested. And failing this test will not only mean your failure, it would also mean your fall,” Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said in his remarks to leaders…
Do the Osho Meditation resort has also some Ayatollah or someone like Dr. Rowan William r
Just read a very interesting article about the “Crocks”,very relevant about the thread we are sharing here.
I don’t know whether Crocks have arrived in India too or not. I hope Kranti will let us know…the most comfortable flip flop, very suitable for the Indan whether.
The company which produces original “Crocks”since 2002 have seen the share price jumped upto 75 dollers per share, and when everyone must have a pair of crocks, it dipped in ten moths period to 1.90 doller per share…
Why?
because every company started making the plastic shoes with the holes.
“Crocks” simply became a Generic word like Osho. One can buy these plastic shoes from the range of 5-60 Euro.
Should the “Crocks” company run behind every manufacturer, who started making the same kind of plastic as per the demands of the market.
naturally people can create a bit of alteration and noboy bothers.
Same is happening with “Levis” jeans. They have even the patent with the criss cross style of stitching over the back Pockets, the way few gentlemen want for Dynamic or No mind meditation.
People are not stupid…why they should pay for the cult jeans, 89 Euros just because it has a name. So the company which first produced the blue denim has gone red.
The people who run ” Levis” and people who run “Osho”, must change their business style and mental outlook. Both these names have their charm and style.
PS- sorry it is called Crocs” . No K before S in the spellings.
Osho always talked about how mind uses logic and goes to other extreme just to argue..how it takes a simple fact and stretches it to such extent that it loses reality..
Trademarking ‘ Osho ‘ & ‘Dynamic Meditation ‘ can be stretched by mind for the purpose of arguement to say ” Can we trademark Dancing , Breathing , Eating , Walking & Sleeping “
I saw people wearing these Crocs in the Osho Meditation Resort , Pune. I never knew its background.. thought it is just another chappal.. But i am not aure whether it is available in India
To answer your last post higher price is paid for Big Brands not because the names are big.. The name is symbolic.. The essence behind is the name ( company ) gurantees a certain quality and that quality is not built overnight.. A company would have delivred consistently quality product over a long period to build such a strong brand name..and as such commands premium price in the market..
People copy the big brands when there is no confidence in their own product quality.. or to make quick money ..
I am not including the brands built to exploit human identity crisis .. All those ‘ Limited Edition ‘ series or ‘ Premium labels ‘ out and out created for rich fools who are behind something or other to associate themselves to..
So Osho is Osho .. Oshodhara is Oshodhara..
And talking of ‘Dhara’ those guys seem to be a bit smart in using the word ‘ Dhara ‘ meaning flow of a stream in sanscrit… they are communicating that it is a stream..It will not stop with one ‘Osho’.. It is a different strategy.. extended beyond using the word ‘Osho ‘..In that sense they are also ensuring that there will be people ready to take over the organization with the same prefix without feeling any inferiority complex about whether they are thrid or 4 th or 5th.. Seems They also try to avoid the troubles we are having with pune.. sort of grooming CEO to take over companies
It is more like Sankaracharyas taking over a ‘mutt ‘ century after century without problems.. It is all in grooming people and making others accept the next guru over a period of time.. thats why i posted in their website saying they are reversing the whole understanding Osho stood for.. Osho didnt believe in hierarchy.. and He removed all such possibilities..
Infact He did it so beautifully ( among other things ) that we are finding ourselves difficult to create a stable organization and cult around him
What we are having is beautifully flowerd individuals wanting to contribute in their own way..
Keerti wrote :
Without this trademarks thing in India, when a couples of years back we came to know that somebody was making toilet seats with Osho’s name, and Osho sewing machines, we got all that stopped…. As such Osho did not mind his name being used without his permission or the permission from any Organisation, read my earlier letter. Somebody started Osho ceremica in 1997, and he was not a sannyasins. Osho was happy to know it basically encouraged this.
There’s no need of unnecessary paranoia about misuse.”
Have you lived in the West, keerti? How do you know that fears of misuse are paranoia? Just because you can stop people making Osho toliet seats in India does not mean you can do this world wide. Here in London we have a psychopathic teacher called “Oshana”. Why do you think he chose the name Oshana? Anything is possible in the West. Westerners do not have the moral constraints you have in India.
I for one am glad this foolishness is over, Alok john, Osho has enough trouble promoting himself with the out additional work of toilet seats and brothels. Osho is a fringe spiritual teacher who aslo comes with a fair bit of negative baggage. Any fear over this trademark loss are unfounded, imagine you make a metitation event and call it the oshotruemeditation..you will get hours of hard work and almost no one turn up..haha. forget about it.
It was actually nothing more than a failed attempt at total control by a few people who have got overly attached to the phyisical assets and who are actually powerless and stand staring as the grains of sand disapear between their fingers.
I feel the best thing to do for Osho, is to throw him to the free wind. Realese the copyrights to his books and videos and talks, everything. Allow anyone to copy them or distribute them without alteration. Ah this Osho.
Swami wrote “Osho is a fringe spiritual teacher who aslo comes with a fair bit of negative baggage. ”
He may be fringe now in the West (less so in the East), but his discourses and meditation techniques make every other “teacher” look like pygmies. It is just a matter of waiting for the world to catch up with him.
“You are asking if I can speak, can bring my message to the people in such a way that it becomes more
acceptable, that it becomes more usual. It cannot become—at least, as long as I am alive, it cannot
become usual. You have so many usual doctrines, usual religions, usual ideologies. My approach is
going to remain unusual, because the usual approaches have all failed. Something unusual has to be tried.
I know you love me and you want my message to reach people, but your love is blind. You don’t see the
implications of what you are saying. You are saying, “Can’t your message be more acceptable?” That
means I will have to compromise. I will have to think of the blind people all around me and adjust to
their ideas. It is betraying the truth. Every compromise is a betrayal.
My message will remain universal even if I am the only person who trusts in it, because its universality
does not mean numbers of followers. Its universality means that it is the foundational doctrine of
existence. And I cannot conceive how it can be more acceptable.
The only way is to knock on as many doors as possible, to shout from rooftops hoping that somebody
may not be deaf, somebody may not be blind. But I cannot compromise on any point, because it is not a
business.
Who am I to compromise on behalf of truth? And a truth compromised becomes untruth. A truth is
absolutely uncompromising.
But that has been always the case. All the masters in the past had to face it. They are always ahead of
their time. It seems to be something in the very nature of life, that the people who are going to be
decisive about human consciousness will always come ahead of their time—because it takes one hundred
years, two hundred years for people to understand them. If they come in their own time, then by the time
people have understood them, they will be out of date. They have to be ahead of their time so that by the
time human mind, human consciousness reaches the point where they can be understood, their message
will be available.
So the greatest work for sannyasins is to keep the message pure, unpolluted by you or by others—and
wait.
The future is bound to be more receptive, more welcoming. We may not be here but we can manage to
change the consciousness for centuries to come.
And my interest is not only in this humanity; my interest is in humanity as such.
Keep the message pure, twenty-four carat gold. And soon those people will be coming for whom you
have made a temple—although it is sad when you are making the temple; nobody comes. And when
people start coming, you will not be here. But one has to understand one thing: we are part of a flowing
river of consciousness.
You may not be here in this form, you may be here in another form, but keep it in mind never to ask such
a question that I should be more acceptable, more respectable, more in agreement with the masses. I
cannot be.
And it is not stubbornness on my part. It is just that truth cannot compromise. It has never done it; it
would be the greatest sin.” sermon in stones12
Just read some wikipedia stuff relating to Buddhism and its sects and belief systems.. seems to be sheer madness..nothing SEEMS to be related to Buddha..
The essensce of Buddhism seems to be lost because there was no way or method to keep it undiluted.. not because it was not neccessary .
So people talking in favour of Trademark and copyrights are able to quote examples of real time misuse and how we can prevent it. Everyone accepts that we have seen major misuse of Osho’s name and efforts had to be taken to stop such misuse..
But people talking against Trademarks & Copyrights keep saying it is NOT NEEDED .If we can talk about Why Trademark SHOULD NOT be used and how it will negatively impact free flow of Osho’s vision then that will certainly make sense and will help everyone to come to same understanding , rather keep saying there is No NEED, Existence will take care.
” So the greatest work for sannyasins is to keep the message pure, unpolluted by you or by others—and
wait. ”
Awesome Alok.. Never imagined Osho will join the sannyasnews forum in support of Trademarks and Copyrights ( take it easy guys ..)
So the greatest work for sannyasins is to keep the message pure, unpolluted by you or by others—and
wait.
” by others ‘ – This is where Osho is asking us to use Trademark & Copyrights.. ( take it easy again ..)
“Just read some wikipedia stuff relating to Buddhism and its sects”
Kranti,
It might ease your mind some if when at wikipedia you also check out trademarks and common law usage in commerce. There’s a great deal of information.
-g
Sure Garimo. Thanks
osho.com server is up..accessible..