Amrito Bhatteral Shares an Interesting Reminiscence
Beloved Friends,
I have been touched by the music of Michael Jackson significantly in my life. I would like to share something about the relationship between Osho and Michael Jackson.
Many of you who have looked deeply into Osho’s life will know that the world media really scrutinised him while in the body. Rumours, lies and propoganda about him were spreading like wild-fire at one point through the world press. Similarly, Michael Jackson’s life was also full of this.
But perhaps many of you may not be aware of a interesting link between Osho and Michael while Osho was in the body.
The strange/rare story goes like this (once published in the Osho Times):
During the peak of Michael Jackson’s career when he was performing to sold-out audiences across the globe, he released some statements about his strange/unique experiences. One of Michael’s experiences was that while he was ecstatically dancing on stage with complete full-energy, he would see the vision of a man dancing with him. The man was indian looking, had a long white beard and was wearing a long robe.
Hasya, Osho’s secretary at the time was the wife of the Director who produced the Godfather series. When she read the statement, she sent Osho the message right away. Osho than told Hasya to send Michael Jackson a letter (with his photo), confirming that it was him.
Osho said that he loved creative people, and Michael Jackson was one of the most creative human beings to ever walk on the Earth. He said, there has never been a person that has reached such heights of popularity and entertainment as Michael Jackson. Furthermore, the energy he created was indeed spiritual and immense, and Osho’s energy was present with Micheal during his performances.
No one knows what Michael’s reaction was, but he did admit earlier that he was very scared with the visions he saw while dancing.
Here is a quote from Michael Jackson on his dancing:
“The awareness is expressed through creation.
This world we live in is a dance of the creator.
The dancers appear and disappear
at a glance
but the dance is still living.
On many occasions when I’m dancing,
I am touched by something sacred.
In these moments I feel my spirit is raised and
become one with all there is.
I become the winner and the subjugated,
I become the master and slave,
I become the singer and song,
I become the expert and the known.
Still dancing and then this is
the eternal dance of creation.
The creator and creation merge
in one of joy.
Still dancing …and dancing …and dancing,
… until there is only the dance. ”
-Michael Jackson
A favorite song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8muMo0fw_M&feature=related
To compare osho with a well known pedophile sounds a bit tasteless to me
Technically if it was Osho, what Micahel saw as it is mentioned here, the single incident would have become a long story.
A very talented man who could touch the nerves of the collective humanity had no spiritual mentor. Just two three months before, he converetd to Islam and changed the name too, thinking it will bring peace and good luck in the life.(www.dailymail.co.uk)
Out of hundreds of comments, the comment below has caught my eyes-
Michael sure had great talent! I remember dancing/singing to his music as a child… I only hope he accepted Jesus Christ as his savour before passing on?! May the Lord be with his children.
- Ella, Nigeria, 26/6/2009 11:05
Click to rate Rating 137
The comment has been booted down. It is a sign that in Central Europe attitude is more secular but in America, Africa and India people still need some special advocate as a saviour of their soul.
I dont think that Osho slept with a single woman myself, but the press said he slept with hundreds! So Thompson is nieve in believing press stories. They killed Socrates for hanging out with young men, no doubt the bergers of Athens whispered about sexual liaisons he had had…
I dont believe anything at all I read in the press since Oregon.
Like many fucked up people Jackson was a seeker of a sort as the quote used by Amrito here shows. If he harmed small boys and it can be proved this is unforgiveable, but he was as far as I know found not guilty of such an offence. Maybe these children might now come forward and speak clearly about what is supposed to have have happened, or not happened to them in Netherland. It would certainly help to make a fair judgment on the guy. Whatever which way, he sure could dance!
I agree with Heraclitus here — skepticism of any press or media reports is the way to go — about anyone, or anything, not just Osho or Michael Jackson. After Oregon, during Oregon, before Oregon — what’s the difference — the media makes up stories day in and day out, that’s their business.
MJ had some good dancing songs — Billie Jean, and Beat It for example– I liked both those, for the driving beat at least. But the guy had some big time problems in his psyche too.
Altering his natural African features was one — lightening his skin to look more White, straightening his hair to appear more Caucasian, surgically recarving his face to look less African. Not really moves to serve as a positive role model for the naturally beautiful African-based people of the world.
Ridiculous really.
I like to see those quotes from Osho referred to in Amrito’s aritcle — most likely not in any discourses that I can remember, but looks like some paraphrasing done by Hasya from a private meeting, to get some good free advertising for Osho on the global stage.
Pop musicians will be forgotten quite quickly, but people like Osho will not be discarded so easily. That’s the difference between fashion and eternal truths.
Pop musicians will be forgotten quite quickly, but people like Osho will not be discarded so easily. That’s the difference between fashion and eternal truths.
Belovedbob, you are the right person to write for “oshoworld”
That magazine needs new energy and for sure, i will be glad to see your face as a article writer and may be in this way you travel to India too, a land where every fifth is a Advaita scholar, and if you travel to Koregaon Park Pune, you can see dozens who are gone beyond enlightenment,,,,
If There is a next life, who knows Michael Jackson also visits Poona, till than i am sure Ashram will be again full with music and dance and celebration…
“To compare osho with a well known pedophile sounds a bit tasteless to me.”
No allegations were ever proven Anthony. Both cases dismissed.
You’re lack of objectivity and abundance of prejudice leave me to doubt all your work in the first place.
Michael is/was an immensely creative individual who was different but nonetheless contributed to the world with compassionate music.
He had issues, but any intelligent person will be able to see their roots in his childhood and upbringing + overnigth fame.
The only comparison in that piece is about the harsh treatment from the world press both men faced.
Love,
Amrito
Amrito.
I was never in Michael Jackson bedroom. so i have no first hand information about is sexual dealings.
However, I heard a Chilean journalist who lived in Miami wrote a book called “Michael Jackson was my lover” based on interviews with a young man who lived with him. Afterward the young man and the family received a lot of money and the journalist was sued.
My neighbor years ago was a Policeman, civil police, who was in charged of personally protecting Michael Jackson when he traveled to Chile. He told me that he slept in the hotel bedroom in a king size bed with two minors who traveled with him around the world and played with them all day with water pistols: And in one time he locked himself out in the fire staircase and he had to arranged for him to be rescued back.
As you can understand, this is all second hand information and Just entertaining gossip for me, not a result of any thorough investigation.
So,I do not know anything about that. It is suspicious that he slept with minors, but that in itself means nothing. moreover I do not care.
And as far as I know I just know what I HAVE READ OR HEARD. For me it is like saying that”Brigit Bardot” was doing this or that, entertaining, but I do not care really
I am not so much into mass media information, don´t care about Jackson and his music. This is something for youngsters. I do not think I would recognize his songs anyway.
But you are right… I have not done any field or literature research on the subject. i just heard he liked kids.
One last point regarding what Heraclitus said.
My confirmation is that Osho did have sex with Greek Mukta´s daughter, Ma yoga Seema, I think was her name. She was his lover before vivek. who was his lover until 1977. This information I got from girlfriends of both women. I heard also prem sunshine got into the sack with the old man… but for this I do not have any confirmation.
Hey Anthony. I have a friend named Christopher Calder who has a friend who says that Osho raped some lady in Bombday.
I also know of a Doctor in Bombay that alleged Osho had aids and released the info to the world press. Later it was found that he got a large sum of money from somewhere.
I also know of people who come out when the opportunity is right to make a few bucks and make a few stories up…
So what category are you? You say:
” am not so much into mass media information, don´t care about Jackson and his music. This is something for youngsters. I do not think I would recognize his songs anyway. ”
His fans range from 10 years old to 80 years old, and his early fans are now around your age. Michael Jackson was 50, just a decade younger than u–but his original band “Mo Town” was from your generation.
You continue to say:
“He told me that he slept in the hotel bedroom in a king size bed with two minors who traveled with him around the world and played with them all day with water pistols”
Here is Deepak Chopra’s (world-wide famous author/speaker & spiritual advisor) on Michael Jackson and kids:
“My children adored him, and in return he responded in a childlike way. He declared often, as former child stars do, that he was robbed of his childhood”
and..
“My son Gotham traveled with Michael as a roadie on his “Dangerous” tour when he was seventeen. Will it matter that Michael behaved with discipline and impeccable manners around my son? (It sends a shiver to recall something he told Gotham: “I don’t want to go out like Marlon Brando. I want to go out like Elvis.”
Deepak Chopra, by the way, has a history of referring people to read Osho’s books in Hollywood. Infact the only other author(outside himself) Deepak recommends on his website is Osho.
Love,
Amrito
Shantam you write:
” very talented man who could touch the nerves of the collective humanity had no spiritual mentor. Just two three months before, he converetd to Islam and changed the name too..”
Again, you are a victim, like all of us have been, to the yellow world press.
Michael was a Sufi, and loved Rumi, Afiz, and other sufi mystics. He went to Behran to pursue this passion of his, here is what Michael’s spiritual advisor, Deepak Chopra says:
“He would be swarmed by crowds at an airport, perform an exhausting show for three hours, and then sit backstage afterward, as we did one night in Bucharest, drinking bottled water, glancing over some Sufi poetry as I walked into the room, and wanting to meditate.
That person, whom I considered (at the risk of ridicule) very pure, still survived — he was reading the poems of Rabindranath Tagore when we talked the last time, two weeks ago. Michael exemplified the paradox of many famous performers, being essentially shy, an introvert who would come to my house and spend most of the evening sitting by himself in a corner with his small children. I never saw less than a loving father when they were together (and wonder now, as anyone close to him would, what will happen to them in the aftermath”
http://blog.beliefnet.com/intentchopra/2009/06/a-tribute-to-my-friend-michael.html
Amrito.
You seem like a nice young man and I had no intentions to hurt your feelings if you like this singer.
But you cannot compare pop music with academic research, as to say that you doubt of my research skills just because I “dared” to say something negative about a pop singer.
are you serious?!
The pop music of my time, my friend, is Neil Sedaka, Paul Anka, Frank Sinatra and his rat pack… the most contemporary music I have listened to is Simon and Garfunkel and Joan baez… after that, just classic Laud, which I play.
You write to me like a fun club kid who got offended because his singer was trashed… sorry, no intentions to Hurt anyone. I did not think that i would hurt such susceptibilities.
For me he was a weird guy on a tv screen with a funny nose, who looked like a mannequin and I heard what i told you.
But again, I do not care about the guy, But when you compare a singer to the contribution of one of the most significant philosophers, social reformists, iconoclastic spiritual masters of the XX century… it looks odd tome.
But, again it is just my opinion. No need to get so angry about it.
Perhaps one day the legacy of Simone de Beauvoir and Marie Courie will be compared with the one of Britney Spears or Madona.
or perhaps Schopenhauer and Heidegger will be evaluated in the same way as Brad Pitt and Mel Gibson.
We are just on a very different wave, Amrito.
again Anthony.
There was NO comparison or INTENTION tompare in the article above.
Please let these waves of communication through that thick intillect.
It is sharing a story about Osho’s opinion on the man, and Michael’s experience of Osho.
Read it again.
Love,
Amrito
PS:
Why you are really old than buddy! Sorry, thought you had some young blood in you.
perhaps the title is the problem.. My original title for the article was;
“Osho and Michael Jackson, a strange connection..”
A 70′s Tv actress Farrah Fawcet also died yesterday. Someone told she liked Jean Paul Sartre. So I will write an article about the relationship between the two.
Right after your article, of course.
You are arrogant, Anthony.
Love,
Amrito
You feel it is ok for you to call me “really old than buddy! Sorry, thought you had some young blood in you”, and described me as having “thick intellect.”. and that is ok with you.
But if I make a satire of your approach… then I am an “arrogant”.
As i said before: I have no intentions to hurt you,you seem sincere, but we are on very different wavelengths, my friend.
okay okay…you know what, I think I must still emotionally attached to MJ’s passing.
I was a big fan and loved his music. But some people may not like it.
So, I apoligize Anthony for reacting too quick on you and calling you really old and saying you have a thick intillect. I’ll only make fun of you on a rap song, thats it–i swear.
Love,
Amrito
You can make all the fun of my rap songs… as long as you let me laugh about your relationship between Hstorical figures.
Ok?.
Friends again?-
haha…
Ofcourse, now give Michael a chance and watch these video from his songs:
Earth Song
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(Produced, directed & written by MJ)
Black and White
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Now, I will end it. But these two are my favorite songs of his. Just listen to the words, watch the video and see his dance…
All of these new starts today includin spears, justin T, black eyes peas, beyonce, kanye—are all inspired by his creativity of musical genius.
So, let me know what you “feel” about them, not “think”.
Love,
Amrito
Your comment is awaiting moderation
deal.
It is alright Amrito
Anthony is old.. So old he uses his P.H.D to attract girls.
Now Dont ask me what is his P.H.D.
I feel Amrito was touched by the moment of MJ passing and attempted to share a beautiful incident ..
It is really a co-incident that we as people connected to Osho in some way or other made an effort to compare MJ and Osho due to their Dance and Creativity
Amrito is better off
I took a photo of MJ waving his hand like goodbye and distributed to the entire office with a comment stating ‘ Life lived fully ‘
You know what.. Got whacked by the boss for distributing a mail like that using office ID..I explained my intention and it is to remeber MJ death and all.. ..But i couldnt afford to react more.. I still need this job
Anthony
MJ is far more beautiful muscian that you may think
Although he became famous with beat it or billie jean kind of songs ,we have to judge him more by his songs like..Farewell of my summer Love , Heal the world , Earth song , They dont care about us etc..
Michael Jackson had high level of sensitivity … going by his music
Now if you add to this, his decription of music
‘…….The creator and creation merge
in one of joy. Still dancing …and dancing …and dancing, … until there is only the dance. ”
He is more of a mystic than anyone else.. You cant expect everyone to sit under a bodhi tree and give poses to camera
MJ truly lived & ‘ Danced his way to God ”
On any day I will accept MJ as a mystic than the so called Oshodhara bunch..compared to Michael Jackson those guys are disgusting..
Shantam
It is good that he converted to another religion and confused all gods at the last minuts.. Otherwise all those gods would have stabed him from the back and handed over to him to Satan..
I think now he is freed of all these gods and teaching children break dance in heaven like place..let him be at peace
I am curious to see how his last rites will be performed, it is buzzed as the biggest funeral in the show business but my interest is, the priest of which religious franchise will pray to God to take care of him.
I wish to say again that if there is a next life and a evolutionary purpose, this superb artist will visit Pune and till than i am sure, Ashram or resort or may be more appropriate name will be ready again with the spring. Intelligent people with XL or XXL ego will be again booking their journey to Pune.
Right now also people go there but suddenly kindergrten type with size S or size M ego and naturally as it is a trait of this age group behaving quite smart.
Whoever the priest he will have his task cut out.. Message would be clear to him from the top.. Run the funeral and show to the world MJ belonged to this religion.. Priests of all religions are the worst kind of creatures possible on the earth
One of my favorites
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Good one Kartar..Have seen it before
Is there anything special about the way MJ said ‘Namaste’ to Britney? Did you notice?
An attempt to strighten things out regarding MJ’s face changes.. I respect the creators feelings about the injustice that happebed to MJ from Media
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All this grief over the death of someone these people didn’t know. Cry for ones friends, but do not gnash ones teeth over the death of a total stranger.
- Christine, Cannondale, Connecticut USA, 27/6/2009 11:32
Has the world gone mad? The entire media has given wall to wall coverage of this event. No wonder celebrity is regarded by far too many people as the only important thing in their lives and drives their aspirations.
- JMA, Dorset, 27/6/2009 11:35
Click to rate Rating 76Report abuse
He seemed to be a very unhappy and disturbed person surrounded by vultures who wanted him to keep making loadsa money, just liek to many other stars.
Many people in the world may be sad and my heart goes out to his children, but I am convinced that Michael Jackson himself is a lot better off where he is now and has found the happiness which eluded him in life.
- diana, Geneva, 27/6/2009 11:35
Click to rate Rating 68
Tell that idiot Christine, Cannondale, MJ is not a stranger..He touched millions of people’s lives with his music and creativity.. you can live 50 years with a neibour and still look at him like a stranger
I posted a message on that site asking them not to be insensitive idiots wit such comments
If you ask me… this is as low as the forum of sannyas news can fall: discussing the death of a pop singer.
Im signing out
The forum is about dance , celebraion and creativity also Anthony..
Anyway we will move away from the topic quickly and focus on usual stuff
Just one more message
When MJ produced the ‘we are the World ‘ album
‘ the producer quincy jones sent a demo to all the participating artists, along with a note to check their egos at the door ‘
EGOs
Anthony my friend, lighten up. Dance a little, rap a little.
Don’t turn Sannyasnews into a religious sunday school where it can fall up and down. Nothing is falling, and if something needs to fall, than its our heads!
I can accept you dont like Michael, but chill out and relax dude.
Just saw CNN news.. There is this prision in philipines where they changed people’ violence just introducing Michael Jackson dance and music..
No meditation and spirituality.. Michael Jackson to remove violence from prisoners..Hats Off
The aspects of human evolution of consciousness that Osho hammered on his whole life can be used in any situation without apologies or fear. Awareness, intelligence, transformation, sensitivity, and celebration are qualities of our lives that when applied to any story, are windows for growth.
The MJ story is no different in this regard than any other.
I would suggest, that rather than split off into pro-Michael and anti-Michael factions, the people on the forum should use this great opportunity to watch how the media uses this “event” to project their own agendas, which are quite skewed apriori to produce certain effects. The media — of which MJ himself and the entertainment industry are a part of btw — is probably the most powerful manipulative organization in existence today. It controls, to a large extent, the formation of the human psychology of the contemporary person.
Osho has always focused on ‘awareness’ as the laser that can cut through the bs of mind-control, as this MJ story is a great opportunity for all to use that tool of clarity in a real environment.
I would advise to be highly skeptical of anything you see or hear from the media regarding this unfolding story. Use the master keys that Osho pumped into your systems to view the action with a crystal-clear alertness, rather than a ‘for’ or ‘against’ standpoint.
Got it Oshobob.. Ya. It is a great opportunity for sannayasins to see the things that unfold in the media..
Already Media is licking its lips on possible outcomes of forensic reports.. Saw a comment of someone who said let us finish the celebrations now itself because after those results come out there will be full of negativity everywhere
And i feel there are few professions like Media & advertising among other things are based on the demand for negative news from people & the identity problems of people..They just supply what people want without caring about consequences ..We need to find way for a certain education of ‘ unconcious behaviours ‘ in these professions..Media should consist of people who refuse to supply unhealthy and false propaganda
I know i am dreaming..But ..
Creative tribute to MJ
http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/jun/27/slide-show-1-sand-artist-pays-tribute-to-michael-jackson.htm
QUESTION: What is happening in your brain and in your emotions if you become a fan?
The “media” is a very complex organism. It isn’t just ‘negative’ news that the aware person should be wary of….it’s also the other side. A TV report can show you a positive view of something, but if that ‘something’ is not true or natural, then you have the same problem.
For example, if a TV show projects into the minds of its viewers a rosy report of a stupid or vulgar person or act, then the 30 million people soaking that in are softened up to believe in the appropriateness of that unconsious behavior. That’s a huge problem, as much so as a show that reports negatively or falsely on an uplifting or conscious person or act. Same manipulation from the other shore.
Kranti, there ARE ‘educational’ techniques to transform unconsious people — it’s called meditation. But it always happens on an individual level, on a voluntary basis too — don’t be waiting for CNN or FOX News to hire people that supply truthful news stories. The employers and employees are all in the same game.
They are creating stories that sell to the lowest common denominator — the masses. They are not targeting your Buddha nature, that’s for damn sure.
If they just showed Osho videos, they would not be ‘popular’ — that by the way, is where the word ‘Pop’ comes from — a Pop Star. Osho could never become a Pop Star, and thank the gods for that….!
Good question, Andreas.
Insanity is happening. The word “fan” is short for “fanatic” in the English language. You are overwhelmed by the illusion of a complete experience from a small part of the world, usually something manufactured artificially by mankind.
A baseball fan. A Beatles fan. A movie fan.
A fanatic. Everything in your little world becomes your private universe, to the exclusion of the rest of the whole picture. You become emotionally and mentally limited.
Not sure in what context you are asking this question..
My understanding is limited. and too basic
If you are looking for a more complex thing i am sorry for posting this basis answer
You become a fan to someone because that person is able to do things which you want to do but not able to do..either totally or to that extent..Just fulfilling desires through someone else
So there is emotional attachement as He is part of fan..
Part of the fulfillment is in creative instincts apart from identity related fulfillment
Beyond this if you are looking at chemistry related changes in brain also i dont have any clue..I am very weak in those areas.
I always feel everything including fan-hero business is related to identity problems.. Thats why addressing it thru sprituality brings peace and acceptance
Understand oshobob
I tried to llok at it from larger picture
Say there is an education run by govt on alchoholism or there are so may educational rograms / training on womens lib
If suddenly one sane leader comes up with a idea to train people in media to keep looking at thier inner motives then there may be collective positive impact..
But i know it is complex not that simple..there is this other side of demand which is huge and uncontrollable
end of the day all wrong supply comes becaue there is demand
Oshobob
i have slightly different thinking to what you posted
you say
” You become emotionally and mentally limited.”
I think it is the opposite
Normally you are limited in your daily life.. So by becoming a fan you attach yourself to a larger image and feel expanded
Andreas has raised a nice question and Bob’s defination of fan(fanatic) hits the nail.
Can we also put the Devotee, disciple also in the same context?
A disciple of alive master or dead one, some one who died a year ago decade ago or thousands of years ago?
Shantam
Master-Disciple is also partly the same..But not exactly
In allother identity games you enhance your identity but in a healthy master-disciple gme you are constantly hit on the identity..It is not allowed to get strengthened
Note: I am saying ‘ in a healthy master – disciple ‘ issue , not a devotee.. A devotte is again a fan
But a true discple is not a fan.. he is not in search of identity but non-identity
Everything boils down to whether you are searching for an Self Enhancement or No Self
All games are one one side and there is only one game ( true master-disciple ) is on other side
Thats why there is no comparion of any other aspect of social issue with a master-disciple issue ( again true master-disciple issue ) will not work out
We can go on arguing for ages..But both will never meet because the basis of workings are diametrically opposite
Although it is a painful fact what we are doing here in this forum is also part of the Self Enhancement exercise.. thru that self enhancement arguements we can not judge a person ( essentially a body-mind organism ) who is operating as a No-Self ( assuming we accept there is something lke No-Self )
I know i have taken this arguement a bit too seriously at the risk of boring or hurting someone…( or all )
Let us, hear from Andreas, the ex. disciple and Anthony, a freelancer seeker who wish not to be disciple.
Bob and Frank…what is their sincere opinion in this regard, whether the fans of a pop star and disciple of a guru are looking the same comfort zone…?
I was never in my life a fan of any sport personality or movie actor or singer, but for sure driving inspiration for few historical figures.
How easily in a flickering of a second, my defences for this Man Rajneesh who called himself Bhagwan Shree will start falling i am amazed.
Just to say hallo, i phoned after 25 years a man in Delhi, who was the owner of the first Osho book i read incidently.
For sure, if i do my own psycho analysis, it will be shown that i was looking for a strong father figure etc.
” How easily in a flickering of a second, my defences for this Man Rajneesh who called himself Bhagwan Shree will start falling i am amazed.”
That will happen if your image is enhanced by His image..Whenevr His image is doubted part of you
shakes
If we can become a true & total disciple the disciple will disappear and become the master..he will no loger have such needs
Anthony will surely be able to help us understand the concepts behind Self enhancement / Identity etc..
But my doubt is he will stop short of touching the topic of No Self.. If he can go that far with patience we all can certainly benefit
I will go and sleep now
Shantam,
To answer your question, yes, I would say there are similarities between the disciple/master and fan/star comparison. At least on the surface.
That’s why I think many of Osho’s disciples dropped out, because they always wanted the O-show to go on, but Osho kept reflecting it all back to them. And then when he disappeared completely from the public stage, this fact really hit home. The disciples were on their own, if they wanted the celebration to go on.
In the modern fan persona, the star on stage that they attach themselves to is always there as the center of attention — he or she never mirrors the fan back to himself. It is just a show, for the ego benefit of the performer, and financial benefit of the promoter. Whether it’s a football match, art show, or TV episode, the self-generated transformation of the fan is not really a concern.
I would say that’s the difference, and the definition, of a true master — he pushes you back to yourself always, and then the man on stage can go back to his room and just relax. Job done.
The world of we human beings is so inspiring, therefore so many newspapers and magazines are, so i also konw much about Micahel Jackson or the adopted daughter of Madonna is called Merci.
But it was first time yesterday i have listened Earth song from Michael Jacson because Amrito has mentioned in his link, and also such a legand has died, i owe this much to him for creating so many news in his life time. i will try Thriller today, to feel world’s most sold album.
I have a request, i was checking my playlist in Youtube. Other than John Denver Annie’s song and a poem recitation Of Rudyard Kipling’s IF, i have nothing which touches deep like the music from my land.
When my fellow friends here can refer few more in the line of the above two, i will be greatful.
PS- Few months before while reading Germany’s most famous Trash paper “Bild”. I cam across Boris Backer’s interview where he mentioned the poem IF by Rudyard Kipling. I checked in google. It is a spell binding poem.
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The spirit of humanity….
what a tribute to MJ. This tribute is the best i have seen and shows what a global legend he was.
Kranti – no I did not notice. What I did notice was the similarities of the movements in the song and dance of the performers. The song copied a Elvis Preseley and Angie Dickinson song in the movie Viva Las Vegas.
Music, Dance, Art plays an important role in all cultures. The expressions are different but the outcome is the same.
Osho is right now in that empty chair. the empty chair that is really not empty.
So personally I dance the dance of life everyday knowing well that Osho is watching over his friends.
And we are all an inner dance – and partners in that inner dance.
Peace
Ok. I´m back. I have the flue, so not much to do… apart from talking to you guys.
A fan and a follower are psychologically on the same place. they both project their unowned power into some father figure or someone who represents their own unconscious desire for fame and recognition, success or knowledge.
I make a distinction about a ” functional” disciple. Someone who is there to learn, even to surrender if that is required, but as a means, not as an end into iteself. osho despised this kind of people, but i think they are the healthy ones.
after they learn what they felt were there to learn, they hit the road, kill the Buddha, get dressed and go on with his life or adventure.
What i found low about the discussion before was that it was fueled by a non critical, mass psychology attitude, common to unconscious and mechanic people. It is not about MJ, it is about being controlled by mass media.
Shantam
Trust you hear lot of music created by Prem Joshua and Chinmaya Dunster.. they produce amazing music..Of late i find it difficult to listen to music which is coming from a meditative bacground..There is a difference
read as ‘ Of late i find it difficult to listen to music which is NOT coming from a meditative bacground “
Shantam
The link what you sent is the one shown on CNN.. Prision inmates.. They used MJ dance & music for three years or so to remove violence from inmates
And i am very touched by the message posted above on MJ’s intesret in sufism and sprituality.. Think his self image grew too large for him to handle and ‘Help’ didnt seems to have come at the right time..Deepak Chopra should have reffered him to a ZEn Master or Osho rather than acting as a mentor on his own..A true ZEN medicine would have saved MJ
Anthony
Dont stop at that point.. Can you share your ideas about this No-Self concepts
Osho always used to say Pshychology is like collecting pebbles on the sea and Sprituality is like Sea..It is something of going beyond pshychology
Did you have to drop lot of ideas about Pshychology and related ideas to understand and accept those concepts of No-Self
Get well Anthony, you said,”I make a distinction about a ” functional” disciple. Someone who is there to learn, even to surrender if that is required, but as a means, not as an end into iteself. osho despised this kind of people, but i think they are the healthy ones.”
Was there such time in your life to be a functional disciple? just as a symbolic ritual you bow your head down, if not on green marbel just on the green grass?
Just few of us here are the minicule of the whole spectrum. Andreas was in Oregaon,i don’t know for days months or years, had his sannyas name, must be bowing down too with the tune of BUddham Sharnam Gachami…
As i have heard Osho the whole concept of sannyas is functional, a mean to an end. His famous example, you have to enter the train if you want to leave it or once you are on the roof, stairs must be discarded or Master is also a throne, which helps you to take another throwns out from the feet. after wards it must be discarded too. Rest is individual attitude, few can throw this Master throne like a used cigratte or few can put it aside with a touch of gratitude.
Though i will say in the age of 13 pairs of shoes per person in the west, hardly any throne enters in the foot.
Shantam
It can be described any kind of words. But effect is the same. We are all talking about the same..But what i said above is there is certain point in the whole Awakening game where you have drop not only the master but also the ‘ME’
Thats the point people can stay outside the door for ages or talk about droping the master this , that and all
You must have heard about that beautiful story about Rabindranath Tagore.. He searches for GOD for ages and finally finds him.. He is about to enter the door and then starts thinkg..If he opens the door and find god then the whole search will come to end..So quitely escapes.. After that also he searches ..but now he knows where is god..that diretion alone he avoids..he keeps searching everwhere else and keeps playing the ‘search’ game
thats what everyone does..How can you drop the ME which itself is playing this search game?
I find this website very beneficial abd focussed one
http://www.theendofseeking.net/
Beautiful website.. It really helped to put me back on track on the search and highlighted where my comfort zones are
Somehow Anthony passed on the flu to me.. Had horrible time with body pain whole day
At some point i started becomg aware of the body’s struggle and that created a distance between me and the body & mind.. I accepted the struggle and also saw how the mind resisted that situation and also diverted me from doing things which will cure body.It is only intesrested in keeping that noise going..it is ‘ Selfish ‘ to say..
Try to find the reality of his music in your body and your senses and in your inner joy…
In your heart…
Try to work with energy…
…Live…
Thanks for sharing that Mircea Serban..Thats exactly i am focusing now
From watching the videos of Michael Jackson and the videos of Osho, I would say between the two, Osho is the better dancer. Hands down.
Jackson is all rehearsed, choreographed, and produced as a stage performance — coming across with a highly homosexual vibe.
Osho’s dance is a direct energy transfer between him and his people, arms pumping upwards, eyes connecting with real people, smiling in ecstasy. A real man sharing a real vision.
Osho wins the contest, no doubt about it.
What a thinking.. Oshobob you are the by product of that dance & vision.. It is obivious
The difference is between a real life dancing and an image ( ego ) dancing..
Oshobobbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb..Haha
Was reading ..Theraphy : A New Vision in the october 2008 Oshotimes..
Guys .. Please read if you have not read
A friend posted this in facebook..thought everyone should see the video about MJ..tragic and how vulnerable an individual in the hands of society???
The more we see the insanity of human beings the more desparate i want Osho to reach every human
being
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That was a pretty good interview with Deepak Chopra with US TV just after MJ’s “death”, that Kranti linked to above..
Chopra talks about the MD/patient legalized drug culture in America, the lasting effects that childhood experiences have on all subsequent life events and psychology (largely negative in Jackson’s case is Chopras spin) — all while not trying to hide his friendship with MJ — pretty good honesty about some quite touchy subjects so soon after the death, it seems anyway…
Just imagine resort management commatee is taking care of Neverland and the thugs including MJ’s father taking care of Buddha hall!
I think the biggest discovery of humanity is the electronic Media. Before that entertainers used to go from vilage to village festival and every where they have to dance and sing. Thanks to the electronic gadgets every momant of theirs is immortalised in the time.
50 Million years of nature’s work to produce and modify human beings and we go gaga over some one’s dance movements as if the whole humanity is handicap therefore it is fun to see the images of someone dancing..
I will be glad to see some one from the west taking the stage from the Indian Masters, some white man authentic like Socrates or Russel bringing a fresh wave of thinking and touching own’s people on a mass level, may be someone many many times more electifying than the home grown boy Echhart Tolle..
It is a good dream Shantam.. I liked that dream or desire whatever it is…
Ya.. A charismatic white man raising up to the occasion to lift human conciousness will be great event on the planet.. The west will have lot more open attitude towards such a man..
And they dont have to go thru the struggles of stopping poeople trying to convert him into a religious leader..Or do they? Not sure..
After all the west created the biggest religion out of the teachings of such a beautiful Christ.
Most often we take west’ rational approach for granted and similarly we take east’s devotion for granted.. May be it is not right..
Oshobob
Inspite of that honesty from Chopra one thing that bothers me is he could have done something as he keeps calling MJ as his brother
I do understand the limitations of entering into a celebrety’s private life no matter how good your intentions are.. But seeing the intimacy they shared one cant help feeling..may be.. he could have done some damage control..
And Shantams thought makes me think
We can discuss about various masters or teachers who are available and who can play a significant role..To discuss that we need to make some honest effort to understand what exactly they are doing rather than simply jumping into usual ‘ spritual leaders bashing’ i think..
What you guys feel..?
Please look within and see if you can watch any pedophilia witout loosing your witnessing cosciouness!
If want to Osho is that pedophilia!
Nothing happens without the LOrd!
Ps.Convey this to your studantes and disciples!
Luv,
amrit*
Lord????????
We removed all those lords last century itself..
An what disciples are you takling about and to whom?
Amrit..Which planet are you from?
frank. Atleast now come back. We have got a messenger frm lord. In his planet people get attracted to enlightenment due to sexual reasns. Wow.
this is what happens when you put so much energy to discuss celebrity… wackos are bound to come in
Anthony ..see the previous thread also..your spiritual journey will take a jump..
Yes, Kranti, it did seem a little strange with D. Chopra talking about his good friend M. Jackson, and he didn’t do much about the situation he saw…MJ wanting some oxycontyn (a morphine type drug), but Chopra MD wouldn’t Rx it, ….it is odd, quite odd, the whole story…fits right in with this goofy world today, everything seems “out of joint” as Willie Shakepeare once so succintly penned years ago….
As for looking for The Great White Hope to reinvigorate western spirituality, I’m not sure how white you would have to be to cut the mustard — I myself am picking up a bit of a suntan here in summer Colorado at the poolside — so many pretty young college girls in their bikinis there too catching some rays — it’s tough to maintain the purity in these environments, if you know what I mean…
Ya..Its odd
Think Chora opened himself up knowing well criticizms and dobnts on why he didnt do anything will flow in..You never know what his limitations were..
But he tried to justify that by explaining how good MJ was in hiding himself whenevr he wants etc..Thats part is even more disturbing..seemed he is a bit desparate to cover his guilt
Ya i get it.. It is a case of getting some brightness going on the face with right intentions but attracting something else than what intended for..
Anthony, good to hear from you again — yes, “wackos” abound, whether we talk about celebrities or not really — it’s a wacky, wacky, world we live in, and they go with the territory — most likely we’re all a little banged, battered, and bruised by this existence….
and really, frank is surely missed by all — where is the bard these days, going through an identity crisis perhaps….?
By the way what happened to all these guys..???
Anthony just threw in something to show his hatred against discussing MJ and hid himself again..what kind of P.H.D he is?
thought he will jump right in and discuss all these concepts about Psychological abuse of MJ in chilhood and what freud has said about it kind of stuff..Disappointing
Suddenly he gives me a feeling that he is only interested in enlightenment not psychology..
Andreas has become too soft to express anything in words
Frank: Dissolved in Maitreya
Shantam seems to be doing fine.. throws something every now and then
Oshobob is doing fine
Guys ..By suddenly disappearing you have made me discuss things like ‘ Soror*Terezinha ‘ ..i dont have any clue who is that and what i am discussing etc..
Oshobob..Did you check last few posts in the previous thread..I almost lost myself..
Yes, Kranti, I saw those posts by Amrit Baskar in that other thread, but, I must admit, they were a bit obscure in meaning for me…kinda like Madame Blavatsky on drugs maybe, ranting about some long hidden mysteries that no one knows or cares anything about anymore, except the Theosophical Society and their publishers….maybe there’s a learning curve involved there…
Ya..i had to restrain myself with difficulty..You know what i mean..
And Andreas is missed too — the Nietszhie, …Nitzhzscie….Niztzchsie….Nieszchtsie ….ahh you know, that guy in the Black Forest Zen retreat, who reminds me a little of that dead German phiosopher, who had a big mustache, and wrote a hellava lot of books that not many could understand very well…that guy, where is he lately….no, I don’t mean Nietzhee, …Nietzschie…anyway….I mean the andro–Andreas…
As long as he is not posting because he is in a meditative space..it is alright
Right,Shantam is ok too…anyone who likes my website and says so publicly is Ok in my book.
It seems though, he always has in the back of his mind a plan to get a group of “nobody” sannyasins and retake the Pune Resort, flushing out the Old Guard that is entrenched there with some new and fresh administraion…or maybe he’s just trying to get some renters for his apartments there in Pune to bring in some cash to supplement his low paying German job — with his kids and all, the expenses must be difficult….
And who is ‘Soror* Terenzina’ anyway — is she related in any way to Mother Teresa? One thing I am goddam glad for though, is that Mother Teresa is not in a bikini down by the poolside here. That would be a sin, with no chance of redemption at all. Even if Pope Bent-Dick gave her holy absolution, she’d still go to hell I believe, for that heinous offence. Though, as far as we know, she is dead, just like Blah Blah Blavatsky, and Nitxhszehie….Nisczhtie…ahhhh, you know that German guy with the big stachio….he’s dead too…
My God ! Oshobob you dont know Soror* Terenzina’ ..thought only i am not aware..The way Amrit talked about her i almost started feeling a bit ashamed.. Who is that Soror* Terenzina’ anyway?
Let us ask amrit what is thewebsite or blog of Soror* Terenzina’ ..Without a web site or blog how could someone possibly got enlightened?
Think These guys Anthony , Andreas , Frank ( Has Shantam also joined them ) are upto some tricks..
Yeah, right Kranti….looks like just you and me holding down the fort here, those 3 Mousekateers are up to some tricks, no doubt — in legal terminology, we could say they’re in collusion — Inspector Clouseauphta may have to be brought into the case for investigation.
While we wait, we can watch a YouTube clip from the Pink Panther series with Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau, trying to get the case solved….
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guys. no trick or anything. as soon as you are done talking about michael jackson i will jumpt right in again. I´m not into celebrity, weather it is their psychology or the miserable life they had as kids. sorry guys… i´ll wait for a change of topic.
I think Andreas is also in the same mood, as far as he told me, privately.
And Kranti… please your are answering yourself a bit too much. I know you are exited with the forum, but to have 4 thread of you talking to yourself leaves little space to jump in.
see you soon.
as far as frank… i am really concerned
Ok, Anthony, what topic would you and your friend Andreas like to talk about on the next thread concerning Osho and Osho sannyas?
Someone has to make the article and submit it to the editors at Sannyasnews, right? But you don’t want to take on that task you have said, although that would be a good way for you to get a topic that you would be enthusiastic about contributing to.
I do not know man… I answer to what ever i feel challenged. This particular topic was not my cup of tea… but i do not need to write an article my self…
see how it flows… I may even come back to this one… if we keep away from chopra an MJ… none of these guys inspires me particularly…
I am up for making fun of Amrit Baskar…
I copy and paste the thread from Amrit BasKar… if anyone can explain to me what he is talking about:
“You were born in amongst the west rich germany and know very little about poverty unless what you seen in india!
Soror*Terezinha is a great french female mystic 19c
came to share in my deepest momments as what can realy be love …not explanation but,love!
I call her the mystic daughter of Christ,Raman,Meher Baba,Krisnamurti,all the chilum mystic saints of India untill we come to Osho*Osho is in the long line of enlightened masters only through evolution ,Darling!
So asking sannyasins to put end through awareness to this fighting *who ´s great small medium and large
fantasies of mind and let´s watch ones mind and watch ones breath so we can discover who´s daughter Soror*Terezinha du Petit,Je´sus,Christnamurti,Sai Baba,Meher Baba,All babas and OSho´s daughter!That´s what She is! She is that immitation that is I still missing me whenever sannyasins are discussing who´s greater and smaller and my actuality,and yours friend comes up….! Actuality-is where my breath is short whenever I need to be aware and not allowing the anger to get better of me…I lost”
anyone can tell me what is this guy taking? because it sounds pretty strong.
Anthony, I don’t know what the guy Baskar is talking about — even Michael Jackson’s twisted life seems easier to understand — and Deepak Chopra is just TOO easy to understand, that’s his problem I think.
We’ll have to call Baskar, ‘ABC’ — Amrit Baskar is Cuckoo!
i Agree… strange ways are the ways of the lord “Soror*Terezinha”
Agree anthony..But you should have showed some mercy on us when Amrit dived deep into the ‘ unknown ‘.. tried my best to keep him at bay..
Seeing your misery , I sent a new thread request to Editors.. hoping the title will be of interest you.. Trust me, it is in no way related to celebreties..
I keep telling myself.. i should get too excited and start answering myself.. Lord! ..Give me the strength!..Otherwise it will become a ‘ posts of a mad man ‘..
‘ i should not get too excited and start answering myself.. ‘
Oshobob
Swami Chaitanya Keerthi has replied to us in the other forum. I am greatful to him for the reply..
Lets accept the truth, both are unique, great, full of controversies, freaks, both claim the world has mis understood them, etc.,
May both meet and tell the truth to the world (someway)
vj786@yahoo.com (once in a week i access)
Ps.Somebody just called him a pedophile,in making comparissons about the crowds that soorrounded both!!So whomever you´ve called, you have to go within and see what´s larking in there becuase if one can see it in others its by nature of unconscious that one is afraid,or repeled by what is inside!
Vijay
I requested one Vijay to join this forum from another Blog..Not sure whether you are the one..
Yes, Kranti, I read that post by Keerti about whether all the antagonists could come together…seems like his position, like that of his adversaries, is a firm
NO COMPROMISE !! That is the way it’s meant to be played out, it seems — at least for the time being.
But Keerthi says he is open for discussions.
But Pune team will feel they are the ones who may have to compromise..
Again we will never know the kind compromises that need to be made and whether they are feasible etc..
Ya..Looks like it is the situation as of now..
Nice thread..Honest & delicate expression of someone on the path
http://nomaury.blogspot.com/2009/06/no-forward-and-no-reverse.html
Another one..Really anchors you in silence if you can absorb the same..
http://miraszblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/eye-of-god.html
Osho on Creativity
Every creative artist has to understand this: the moment people start thinking about him that he is a little bit off center, that something is loose in his head, he should rejoice that he has crossed the boundary of the mundane and the mediocre. Now he has grown the wings which others don’t have.
And I can see in you the possibility, the potential.
Meditate, and let music become your meditation. Sing and let singing become your life, your very breathing, your very heartbeat.
A very stupid idea has prevailed in the world, that only saints are religious. In fact, almost 99.9 percent of saints are not religious. The real religious people will be found in creative dimensions – dancers, poets, painters, singers, musicians, sculptors.
The future belongs to the creative man.
Beyond Enlightenment, Chapter 19
Amrit bhaskar. your comment is just cheap psychological insight.
Not because i say adolf hitler is a murderer means I am a deep down repressed murderer. this is just understanding nothing of the human psyche
That’s true Amrito, what Osho says about creativity, but remember too, the Jackson boys were all manipulated into being dancers, singers, and musicians, with a somewhat heavy hand by Papa Joe — it was not really a breakaway act of rebellion by them. It would have been if one of them decided to pursue psychology, or religion, or biochemistry instead. A rather unusual family constellation, right from the get-go…
And I think Anthony has a valid point there — Baskar really hit below the belt with his pseudo-psychology perception of “if you bring it up about others, then it’s in you.” Maybe true sometimes, but doesn’t hold water as a rule…
That reminds me about the first Osho discourse i ever heard in early nineties..It was about creativity wherein he explained creativity as a process..not a thing..How creativity is unbounded an all… I fell in love with his teachings then and there…and that love continues for the perspectives he brings to every aspect of life..
And when i saw that quote by MJ about dance , creativity i couldnt believe..When i relate that to what Osho says about religiousness of creative people..i say..Wow..
MJ was close to being a mystic..far better than a pope who is just a parrot repeating sermons machanically..No comparision at all… Popoe should fall at the feet of creative people not other way around..
When there is no creativity and energy is flowing in perversions we will legitimise everything in the name of human rights and democracy…
Not a single bastard in power asks why somone not in tune in life and natural should be allowed to justify his perversions instead of being referred to a Psychiatrist
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/02/gay-sex-among-consenting-adults-legal-delhi-hc.htm
Hi Kranti – I guess am not the one whom you had requested to join, am new here, hope this is o.k, i like both MJ and Osho in some or the other way, so when i saw this i opened my mind.
Dear Anthony;
My comments about the human psyche has nothing to do with personalities is rather the way I look at myself first!
If I feel condeming and I heard the inner voice calling my atttentionand by grace I become watchfull of this experience that someone else going through on my behalf it´s nothing to be ashamed or feeling belittled!My comments is a gift that Osho left Us with to look and saerch and leave judgemental mind behind because we here to learn and discover,*Who is In …!?*Who am I? Glass windows who hasn´t them?!
As for me is not a window that find beíng of glass but the whole house is a glass one!
Please don´t take personaly rather I´m talking to myself only!There nobody else outside to hear me!
Luf,amrit*
PS.Every spring time there comes a cuckoo!
Cuckoooooo!!!!Cuckoooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Luf & luv,are to some a remedy that Osho left Us with!
Nobody is the only Osho but,as for me we are His immitation!
Please doon´t take to be conscious because I feel on and off,like most people!
If you were to ask me that is there any greater stupidity than taking away Osho *s pictorial representation of His Sammun Bonnum or the highest consciouness
in human beings! I´m justunable to see any other psychological therapy,that the way this litttle mind things!
PS.I think ABC farm is a good farm!
Luf,&Luv,
amrit*
I am really sorry Amrit.. I struggle to follow your language.. I tried my best..But no Luck..You need to come up with slightly different style of communication if you want us to understand what you share..Sorry again..
Amrit..your English is worse than mine… and that is a lot to say.
besides, you write like you have your eyes closed while you do it or listening to really loud music…
it is hard to follow what you say… i do not even feel offended i just do not understand.
Digital psyber
psycho psannyas –
sing cuckoo, sing!
There are so many comments from Amrit Bhaskar?
Please, Amrit, can you let us know about your identity?
yes, we need the address and phone number of the asylum
amrit* could be ok — just a few wires crossed in the circuitry, that’s all…
So it takes an Amrit Bhaskar to find unity on sannyasnews?
haha!!
I´m sorry it´s being edited!
Take Amrit*
“I´m sorry it´s being edited!
Take Amrit*”
anybody understands what this means?
please translate it to me…
“I´m sorry it´s being edited!
Take Amrit*”
I would say Anthony, that this could mean, translated:
Amrit* is either being edited by the Editors of sannyasnews (moderated, censored, etc.) and not his full posts are being shown — i.e., they are being edited.
Or it could mean that the people that comment on his posts are “editing” his remarks in their replies by taking them out of context, etc.
And he is “sorry” for that, whichever one it it. Sorry to the rest of the readers, because they aren’t getting his full story.
And then Bhaskar ends by saying “take Amrit*” , because he is alluding to Amritos post, where Amrito says it “takes an Amrit Bhaskar to find unity on sannyasnews.” So, Amrit* is agreeing with Amrito, saying yes, everyone, take me and my ideas, they are good.
That would be one translation of the cuckoo’s song, but I’m sure there could be other interpretaions…
thanks Oshobob. I do not know what i would do without you.
I suggest from now on, every time MR. Bhaskar writes something oshobob writes the translation right away for us laymen, uninitiated into the realms of “Soror*Terezinha” and the “Sammun Bonnum of the highest consciouness”
Hi Bob and Anthony, there is some interested material for your consideration at the thread started by Keerti.
hi oshobob. I am heartily laughing at every reactn of you to Amrit@&€. Hope I didnt edit.
if amrit€& continues at this rate they have to rename this site as gibberishnews.org
we already discussed the thing in the other post. i´d rather keep making fun of this guy here
Many thanks, sannyasnews, for this great post. I love Osho and love Michael and, unfortunately, I know that there are some people in this world that waste their life trying to destroy the love that flow like a stream from great men like Osho and Michael…
But, luckily, there are also great people like You that talk and write from the Heart posts like this…
Thank You for all, Osho.
Thank You for all, Michael.
Anthony, are you the Anthony Thompson
in the article below-
http://truthaboutosho.blogspot.com/
Yes, shantam… the very same. that is how I became known in this forum and it was because Amrito (the rapper) contacted me.
I wrote that article a couple of years ago, to balance calder´s web infection.
why?
props Anthony. You are the man for that article bro. I got ur back even though you don’;t like MJ, haha.
But seriously, a really good article to balance out internet trash on Osho.
Anthony ..You dont look that old man..You are still smart and you dont have to rely on your P.H.D to attract girls… you look more like Sean Connery..Girls should be queuing up infront of your house..
And your reply to Calder is immensely significant…It is very significant to all the sannyasins as well as outsiders as calder has tried to prject a great lie or misinterpreation and say , very biased view..His book is great harm to the trust of people …
In my own case to be honest , his views had been a disturbance at the back of my mind for years and your reply balaced out things and brough peace..I will always be greatful for that reply
They should recognize this by asking you to be part of inner circle.. I mean it from my heart
Hi Ugo
Thanks for joining the forum..All the guys here have lot of respect for Osho’s wisdom and humour and contribution to conciuosness..whether they are sannyasins or not
By the way, is UGO your real name.. is it a name for people who have gone beyond EGO..in that case it should be IGO..Isnt it? Just Kidding..enjoy …
Thanks heaven, now i know who is the Anthony we are playing chess with.
You can give logics from any side, that is not the question. The hot point of last few weeks is can a person be trustworthy enough, centered enough to leave the children behind.
I think you are Anthony, that much trust worthy. With cadler i will be doubtful.
enough to appreciate this.
When Farrah Fawcett reached the Pearly Gates, God said “Because you
were one of the nicest and the prettiest woman on earth, I’ll grant you any wish you want.”
Thinking for a few moments, Farrah replied ” I wish for all the children on earth to be safe.”
Michael Jackson immediately dropped dead.
Kranti… well yes when I was young a looked a lot like young sean connery, but with time i look more like santa claus… what to do!
Amrito, I am sorry i did not mean not to back you up with your article… as you did with mine…but you know celebrity is not that much my thing.
Shantam. For some people i am a bit of a mystery, how can i say so many nice things about Osho and also being so critical? It is not a matter of being good with logic, but of being honest with myself and my points of view… things are not black and white… but grey for me
as I said before I am critical and also an admirer… at the same time
One from me ..from Oshotimes ..but not in exact words..
” A guy who met with an accident asked..Doctor.. What has happned…Will i be alright?
Reply came: Sorry i am not the doctor.. I am St Peter “
Kranti,
you said: “On any day I will accept MJ as a mystic than the so called Oshodhara bunch..compared to Michael Jackson those guys are disgusting.”
I’m very curious to know what is disgusting about them. Can you please be more explicit. I was actually thinking of visiting to see how it compares to Pune.
.
Test Message
Hi Prem
Thanks for writing..
There are two points to my post above
1. The context is different. We were talking about creativity and living life totally etc., Osho always used to say creative people are the closest to mystics..In that context i said MJ is more of mystic
2.Secondly as far as Oshodhara are concerned it was my personal opinion abd it was on the basis of what we see ..
Three prime reasons that made me say that is
1.The way they have started calling themselves witha prefic ‘ Osho’
2.The way enlightenment has been reduced to a certification course and how people are included as members
3.The Modified meditations developed using mutiple Osho meditations..( take a look at Leela meditation as you will immediately recognize a major thing.. tell me when you do that )
4.The concept of Trivir including Huband and Wife getting enlightened at the same time . It might have been co-incidence ..That possibility is certainly there..But odds are against them..
My request: Dont compare Pune with Oshodahar Grp.. there is no comparion..
Pune is the by product of a great masters vision..By and large they have maintained the purity of that Vision even today
Oshodhara is more of a religion created around that master..
Incidentally it seems my post in the Oshodhara website under ‘ Positive and negative points ‘ has been removed .. I am not able to find it anymore.. The site says ‘ No comments yet — be the first ‘
Sorry .. I found it again..the post is still there..Not sure why i couldnt find it earlier
Guys.. you may find this interesting..I have no comments as it is self explanatory..
https://www.oshodhara.org.in/NewsReader.aspx?NewsID=11
“Michael Jackson funeral: 16 TV networks plan live coverage”
Hallo Beloved God,
Just a small memo from the earth. Please, send once again one of your son or daughter on the earth. The global network and reach of televisions and internet will give immense boost to their stay on the earth.
People are hungry and thirsty enough for someone who brings a bit of motivation in their life.
I would have loved to invite you yourself but it will be a bit too streessful in your age. So just send one of your children, till than entertainers will keep the networks busy.
with love
shantam
Shantam
Are you asking GOD to send a awakened white man?
Did you read the oshodhara article?
I know God is ready to bring His child in the western world, problem is how to find a Virgin! (Sorry if it is politically incorrect)
But on the other side on this day of GuruPurnima i really with that Let India have in future people like warren Buffett and west someone like Osho.
J Krishnamurti kind of gentlemen are already few, the way India has few businessman as philanthropist, who give ten and mention in their account books thousand.
Kranti,
Where is this Oshodhara article?
Is it written by one of the three?
I know many times Pornographic stories are also good literature, i am curious to read this one.
Guru Purnima, master’s day was a nostalgic event in Pune till few years. So much great literature in India is written around Monsoon, the longing for beloved on the earth or somewhere in the vast cosmos…. Dancing Bamboos, rain drops on the Racine sheet, Osho on the Podium or just the empty podium and a UN gathering of seekers.
The people who have not forgiven the religion they were born in, felt in their brains.. no… no…. no we don’t want to give that much importance to the dead man walking. It will grow like another Christianity let us take the so called festivals away but with a articulate Logic…” With Osho everyday is a festival”!
This is like the proverb,” Small mouth Big talk(Chota Muh, Bari Baat)
Shantam
I gave you a link..It is a speeach by Osho Siddhartha praising Osho Shailendra on his birthday and related stuff. I dont want to say anything..Pleae read for yourself..Dont miss
https://www.oshodhara.org.in/NewsReader.aspx?NewsID=11
Ya Everyday is festival..Osho asked us to celebrate everyday
But now especially after all the discussions here i am no longer certain what to expect ..I mean with respect to our discussions on various Osho centres , approaches etc.. May be it is life’s ( Osho’s ) way of bringing us to this point and create space for further growth..
Kranti,
Just read the intimate account of famous three Osho’s.
They are lucky guys to achieve this utter harmony in their spiritual orgy and create a successful organisation out of it. Any way it is not my work to look at the used condoms of other people in the hotel rooms.
People are dying to find someone they can call GURU Ji. It is easier to be a professor but Guruji; must be it is the fullfillment of many lives search, accumulation reward of all the savings, something like a 10 dollers worth if share becomes equal to hundred thousand in few decades.
As far as three Osho’s are concerned they are the most unaesthetic people i can ever imagine.
When Andreas wrote about a Zen man who has opened 1000 Buddist centres in the world, this Zen monk may have been on the same space as Buddha Himself, but out of reverence will not use “Buddha” for himself.
If His followers call him Osho, it is heartful. same is true for thousands of other Oshos all over far east.
But the monkeys of Odhara, i am sure they have even heard this world “Osho” from Osho’s mouth.
Whether they ever read anything other than Bhagwan’s books, i am doubtful.
To me the even more painfyl thing is the ‘ way ‘ of Osho..Thats is the key.. Osho had a way of putting people on the path..He was all for chaos , creativity dancing , joy and beauty…I dont see anything like that in Oshodhara.
They have their own religion , diciplines and programs and clear cut steps to enlightenment etc and thats is not the way of Osho
They could have done the samething without dragging Osho into this.. thats what my pain is..
I had abook fair in my organization.. Osho books are selling like hot cakes..
Just my colleague took me there and bought two books of Osho..He is just starting off
I am smiling..
I love you my Master…
Thanks Kranti for your explanation.
As implied, I don’t know much about Oshodhara. I think sometimes they call it Osho World. It makes me think of “Wally World” in the movie – or a sort of Disneyland of Osho!
Love
Prem
I would agree with Shantam on the use of the word “osho” — the original use of the word was used as a form of respect by the students or seekers to a man who was, in their opinion anyway, worthy of that respect. As I have intimated in my website overview of the word “osho”, it could very well have been the Chinese translation of the Indian word and gesture of folded hands in high respect — “namaste”. It was never really taken as a title — rather, it was conferred by others, in the Buddhist greeting.
In Osho’s case, this may have been the case — you would have had to have been on the inside of the story to know for sure. The disciples offered up that name to him, and he accepted it.
Now, just to take it on your own is quite arrogant, and probably of not much worth — unless it’s a device, a joke, a tactic in some higher strategy, etc…
Titles all have weird histories to them — take the word “king” for example. We have now Michael Jackson who was dubbed the “King of Pop” — by exactly who, we don’t know. But, there it is, he’s the King.
Then there was Elvis, who was the King of Rock n Roll. And how about King Kong, the gorilla. And King George of England. And Burger King restaurants.
And Larry King, of Larry King Live TV fame. The list goes on and on. The Osho thing is the same. You will have to live up to the name, or take some pretty severe heat from the peanut gallery, to be sure.
Not only the names Oshobob
All those diciplines and Modified meditations and clear cut certifiaction programs for enlightenment and all that stuff…
It is just not Oshotic..
The only thing that is related to Osho is the Osho quotes that they display in their website..
At least Osho quotes needs to be Oshotic..Dont they?
Prem
Assuming you are mixing up Oshodhara & Osho world , Delhi.. i am posting this..
Osho World is different from Oshodhara
Oshoworld is being run by Sw Chaitanya Keerthi. Except for some copyright related issues they are very Beautiful Osho diciples.. Only their appraoch is heart oriented and different from the Vision of Pune Management.. But still they are authentic Osho disciples.. They dont have anything which is not related to Osho like Oshodhara..
Right, Kranti…
But I wouldn’t be so hard on all these “osho” guys and girls, you know, I think Osho himself sent them out to do this, in the face of a lot of flak too. They are all just doing their acting roles, doing the best they can, and having a good time too…I’m sure it’s a lot of fun….
Belovedbob,
Somehow the main actors in the ashram management and the people at Odhara represent the two extremes, one is born out of arrogance, another out of resentment.
It is like where there is no rule of the law, and owner of the firm is dying, managers will be concerned about controling the property, sales people will loot the stock.
The way it happens in the world of arts, a small brush by someone else over the original and it will be termed as forgery. Suddenly million doller worth of art will become damn cheap.
Good or Bad, Osho had left paintings in the form of creating a mystery school and a tradition of sannyas as a motivational tool.
it is a act of low mind to change other people’s art that too after their death. For sure, frames need to be upgraded, but how dare some one tries to modify the original art.
Everybody has a right to get inspired by the artist and create his own impressions, this is what was required.
But with Osho it looks like a clearance sale; “Buy one steal two”!
Shantam
Last few days i see you posting messages with a certain feeling..It is not that you were not doing earlier.. It is just that i see a softness..cant clearly say . But something.. Have you been more deeper into silence?
Love ..Kranti
Kranti,
Can be, who knows Andreas and me are sitting at the same time for meditation.
I was thinking to tell Andreas that it does not matter whether few people are here in this ” inner sharing without censorship.”
With this speed, in one year we will have enough material for a book,” Notes Of The Seekers, from the school of Osho”.
Most of the time in the history whether the realised people have wriiten or the disciples wanted to please the Master, kind of books or once in a while accounts of resentment.
It is not so often that people share with the oath of their subjective truth. Neither there is a desire to praise some one or to defame some one, yet it is a fact also that between White and black there are infinite shades of gray, this makes our notes, like human life very interesting.
In accordance with the bigining of this thread, i hope my learned freinds here can shed some light over this question, describing the scientific mystery, how these beautiful children of MJ does not have a single bit of African trait on their features or color.
When some Afro American bleaches his face to white, will it automatic change his genetic roots too or it was his sheer will power that he created all white American kids out of his black genes, in this case it is an admirable feast, just like Yogis living on Himalyas.
first.
Theres no verifyable evidence of Jackson “bleaching his face”. From most insider accounts, including Chopra (and Chopra’s Daughter-a doctor), he had a skin disease. He caught it after a few plastic surgeries.
second.
yea ur rite. His kids really dont got much black in ‘em. So the story is he had them through a sperm bank + roe.
peace!
Oh Good, Amrito, you are answering as you as a fan of MJ initiated the thread.
There was no way but to read many articles, complete web of lies,masks of all kinds surrounded this man.
For sure, much dust will come out.
Without doubt he is the daddy, one of the most loving and adoring daddy, it does not matter how they were conceived, there is no harm to use sperm bank services, but to state a fact as truth, which seems unscientific gives a slap feeling to the world at large.
One of the reason given by Chopra for MJ’s skin diseases is the childhood pshychological abuse.. I am not much of a medical terminology guy..I dont understand those terms..But it is interesting to see how mucg the mind can impact human body negatively and how we are holidng on to negativities inspite of the damage they are causing.. To top every human being values his / her feelings as though they are very precious..
Jackson was not very talented, after years in the industry he managed about 4 fairly good songs. He wasn’t a particularly good dancer either.
But he was famous and had an enormous ego. You don’t seem to understand how the media works.
Most people with creativity and talent are not famous.
Please don’t speak for Osho, he needs no medium and no other interpretation. I have my own brain thank you very much.
well james your sounding a bit like Simon Cowell gone completely wrong.
Who;s speaking for Osho, I certainly am not–nor am I making it up from thin air.
“Most people with creativity and talent are not famous”
I can disagree with this. I’m sure there are people who are creative and talented that are not famous, but to say the reverse: people that are famous are not talented and creative, is simply idiotic. Osho reached a level of fame in his life time and it was precicely statements like yours from people around the world that dismissed Osho for not being enlightened because he was so famous.
Jackson’s music obviously a matter of opinion, but I can say there was both creativity, talent and a spiritual flavour to it.
I’m glad you have your own brain, you seem nothing but brain and brains can be wrong.
thats the illogic i have been speaking against on this forum. Osho became a master and had large number of disciples whch is a life event compared to another master who would have lived in cave. It is stupidity to argue that because he was famous and had large number of discples he was nt enlghtnd or he was hungry for large followng etc. Any brain whch uses such reverse logic is only brain like amrito said nothng more than a brain.
Dear amrito, what????
I said nothing about famous people not being talented.
I was talking about the media hyping up a mediocore talent to the point where people are blinded by an image they are brain washed into believing.
Jackson was technical not creative.
Who said anything about osho not being enlightened??!!
I’ve never met him so why would I say that??
We tag along with the weight of mass. When everybody is talking about someone it is hard not to get caught up in it. But our initial reactions can often be good like oasis for example at the time just another dull average sound but because the media needs images to flaunt their cancer they hype and hype and hype and soon we are caught up in it and we think they have talent.
I mean the mjority of true creativity goes unnoticed because they are often sensitive souls who don’t seek fame or money but are content to be with their local community and enjoy the freedom of annonymity.
P.S. of course I’m using my brain! What a strange statement! How else do you formulate words?
If you are using it as a way to diminish my statements by saying I’m a mere human you are on a dangerous trip.
A brain is a great computer system, but the heart also exists. Its existence is harder to prove for its utility compared to the brain because its more subjective, intuitive. So from your statements, which I can agreeingly diasagree because what makes a singer creative or talented is matter of opnion, but–your assertion on it being because he was famous/media hype is questionable.
The media basically killed Michael for a while, it was the people touched by his music that kept him alive. N e how, I think the MJ discussion has gone on too long.
But, you are picking and choosing your these one-dimensional ideas about creativity, and hence, when applied in reverse to Osho you say “But i never said that!’ There are many people in the world who have condemned Osho merely for his popularity. He is know as a Pop Guru for so many, and dismissed as “shallow” and your very words–”Media Hype”.
So, you seem to be very scholarly too, brain oriented and may need a refreshing brain-wash.
-Amrito
James just to add to what Amrito said.. Please dont think MJ is not that creative and all..he did have his creativity ..without creativity he couldnt have survived as a singer and dancer for so long..
There can be mismatch between his popularity and amount of creativity ..I agree..But again you never know.. These are subjective things. You can even argue Buddha does not deserve such exalted place in the area of elightened souls..There is no end to such type of arguements.
Dear amrito you need to use your brain to understand the words I’m saying and your heart to feel them.
“i did not say that” means I did not say that. I have not mentioned osho in this discussion I’m talking about micheal jackson. CLEARLY you have an issue with fame and osho.
I don’t.
Little Bob the 4 year old was playing with his cousin Jimmy when they run into an argument. Jimmy calls little Bob a shrimp because little Bob is a shrimp.
But little Bob has nothing better to say and says to Jimmy “No you’re a SHRIMP !!!”
James, I called you a “shrimp” first, meaning, I suggested you had an issue with fame and creativity.
Now you’re calling me a shrimp!! hahaa!!
Seriously (ahem) amrito I don’t know what you’re talking about. Is english your first language?
I started us off by saying through the filter of media exposure jackson’s talents are over hyped.
you CLEARLY have a problem with that.
its all gibberish james, its all gibberish…
dear amrito, again no answers to questions just abuse back. What a sannyasin you are! i’m humbled by your humilty
i was talking about myself james, if you can’t understand my english: its all gibberesh James, its all gibberish! Don’t feel so abused, it can get to your head y;know.
Love,
Amrito
I don’t feel abused. I’m very very used to some people thinking i’m amazing others i’m a wanker, usually in equal measure and usually in the same day:). Generally I’m doing nothing.
And even more used to getting abusive responses to simple questions.
I find as I travel in this crazy life that almost nobody can put their hands up and say ‘i don’t know’ and all the problems come from people fearing they may be exposed as not really being somebody.
I’m very happy to find this link.
Somehow I remember this story about Michael Jackson with Osho that time……I was in Pune then…..
I wish Michael could meet Osho in person…..
When I was reading “Dancing in Dream”, Michael and Osho were over-rapping in me totally…..I was crying…..
I was happy to know Osho…..But when I’ve got to know MIchael Jackson more and more…..Wow~…..Because I knew Osho before, I can understand easier Michael Jackson I feel…..
Michael’s death has the most biggest effect on me ever in my whole life…..
I am touched by his love, totality, geniuses, amazing creativity, pureness, innocence, beauty…..and he has become my mirror and trigger suddenly, strongly and from such a far away…..It’s overwhelming…..
I love Michael Jackson deeply…..
I am so~proud to feel his beauty…..
He and his creations will live in my heart forever…..
Love…..
I made a mistake…..
MIchael Jackson’s book is “Dancing the Dream”, not “Dancing in Dream”
Michael Jackson was a great dancer, exceptionally talented, and clearly a very sensitive person, but I found his voice far too high-pitched and child-like to take him seriously as a singer. And I feel most of his songs were basically rather shallow, too sentimental and lyrically unmemorable.
Add to that his evident immaturity and frankly, I hardly see what all the fuss is about!
So I find all the talk here of Jackson’s ‘spirituality’ extremely naive and simply lacking in discrimination.
Osho rated him? Perhaps as a potential vehicle for renewed huge publicity, and indeed, why not?!
Osho was/is a great Master, Michael Jackson was just another ‘struggler’ (imho), like most of the rest of us.
I liked Michael Jackson since my childhood. When I grew, I liked of cource another musik Styles too. But he had such alive inner child!
…Don’t just listen what media says. It is everywhere the same – not looking for truth!
Even without knowing about this Osho and Mickels story, I always felt that, on some level, for me MJ and Osho are simmilar. They both had a wery strong energy field. Osho – one of the reasons: becaurce he was expressing his awakend soul and MJ – one of the reasons was that, becouse he was so total, like nobody, in his creativity.
To like osho and MJ or not to like, is some other thing, if you take it from intellect. But, If your inner chid is still allive and plaing and dancing, then there is just no way not to like this dudes.
Love
Moksha
“One man’s or woman’s meat is another’s poison”, so the old saying goes…Why shouldn’t anyone enjoy Michael Jackson the artist, he was a great talent?
But he didn’t really ‘do it’ for me, for the reasons already given.
Are you then suggesting that it follows that my “inner child” is not functioning?
If you are, then I say to you you’re talking total, unmitigated nonsense!
The problem with MJ was surely that he simply hadn’t grown up, due to a damaged childhood, and I repeat that to compare him to Osho is just lacking in discrimination, it’s really very silly!
Thank you for this article.
As an old sannyasin I remember talking Osho about Michael Jackson and what is written in this article, is true.
Osho gave the order to contact Michael Jackson and telling him, he is the old man Michael saw dancing. Osho was very funny and laughing, when he told this story.
May be, he was choking, but I remember, he said, he invited Michael Jackson to visit him and come to Poona.
This is the truth.
Anyway, Michael Jackson was a worker for the light und joy and love on this planet, and he did a real great job.
One of the most importent statements, Osho made for me, was the advice “Never judge”.
May Michael Jackson rest in peace.
Anyway, Michael Jackson was a worker for the light und joy and love on this planet, and he did a real great job.
Did he? Because he was a great dancer and sang catchy little adolescentish love songs?!
Not saying he didn’t do his best, not saying he wasn’t hugely talented…
But so very damaged, so flawed!
Nothing ‘wrong’ with that of course, I’m not ‘looking down’ upon the man, but let’s get him in proper perspective, please.
Not a question of being ‘judgmental’ at all, but of seeing him for what he was beyond the hype over-kill, not buying into the media/pr version.
I trust those who almost ‘deify’ MJ respond in similar fashion to the likes of Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Ginger Rogers, Rudolf Nureyev, Margot Fonteyn?
If not, why not?!!
Seems to me that those five, as well as being at least his equal in talent, were a fair bit more ‘grown-up’ than Jacko…
But I know, from my own exoerience,that there’s something in the sannyas movement that promotes the ‘puer eternus’ (eternal child) syndrome as something almost ultimately desirable. At the expense of adult maturity, it would appear.
Very likely down to damaged personal childhoods (and very understandable too).
Hence, I reckon, this strange ‘fixation’ upon the ‘Peter Pan’ character that was MJ.
Re Osho ‘inviting’ MJ to Poona, well, why not create another media sensation by associating with this ultra-famous entertainer?
One of Osho’s purposes was to ‘spread the word’ as far and wide as possible, wasn’t he? What better than the enormous publicity this would have generated? (However negatively it would almost certainly have been presented by the tabloid press, for example).
Might have been interesting to see whether MJ would have been assigned any therapy, as it seems he needed tons!
i believe if you understand Michael Jackson enough, you’ll find them both to be very similar esp in their thinking! MJ’s NOT childish, he’s just childlike and pure! and lawyers, businessman such as real estate mogul donald trump who’ve known him said he’s VERY intelligent! it says something when someone like Trump as rich and as achieved said you’re intelligent!