Interview with Swami Yogesh Thakkar
Excerpts from a New Delhi interview with him: 24th November, 13
You have spent considerable time in the Osho Ashram when Osho was alive. How have things changed now?
When he was alive, things were very different. There was peace, tranquility and festivity. Now it is completely controlled by foreigners who are out to destroy this beautiful ashram which Osho had built. Today their properties are estimated at more than Rs 1,500 crores and Trustees are siphoning off funds and properties of the trust. But the value of intellectual properties (IPR) is more than millions of dollars. The IPR of Osho’s books is estimated to be worth hundreds of crores. In fact Osho was one of the most prolific of authors. There are more than 650 titles translated in over 65 languages around the world. The main culprits are Michael Byrne (O’Byrne) alias Swami Anand Jayesh, John Andrews alias Swami Amrito and Darcy O’Byrne alias Swami Yogendra. They operate from overseas. We also want to protect the Osho Samadhi which the Trustees now say never existed.
How did you realize that in your view things were going wrong at the ashram?
When Trustees started restricting people from entering the ashram. Osho always wanted people to come near him and meditate. But these people want to keep people and devotees away. They have also created legal and administrative problems to achieve their aims and to keep people out of the ashram. When we conducted an inquiry, we realized that Trustees wanted to gift a property worth Rs 50 crore to another Trust in New Delhi. The reason they chose this was because if they sold directly in Pune, the Charity Commissioner will issue a public notice, and the public could raise objections. But if it is outside the purview of the Charity Commissioner, there would be no public information. When we came to know about it, we approached the Bombay High Court and challenged it in 2011. Fortunately the Bombay High Court gave a verdict in our favour.
Why do you say that the Samadhi of Osho is in danger?
The trustees deny the very existence of Osho’s Samadhi in the Ashram. This is because once it is accepted, then it is open for public and public scrutiny. This is something which they do not want. Their interest is in utilizing this place as a resort and not as an Ashram. They do not want this place to be known as his Samadhi because a commercial property can be mortgaged with banks or restructured into any commercial property. But if it is a Samadhi, then by default it becomes a place where you cannot restrict people from coming to pay their respect or homage. This is why they dissolved the committee of inner circle of Osho after his death. There were 21 members of this group.
What about the Indian Trustees at the Ashram?
They are nothing but puppets. If somebody asks inconvenient questions, they are simply thrown out. Earlier we visited the Ashram regularly, but now we are banned by the Trustees because we raised uncomfortable questions. Till 2011, I had the gate pass for entry into the Ashram. But I was stopped from entering after I filed a case against the Trustees. What it implies is that in India, a free country, I am not allowed to go to a court of law if I perceive that something is wrong in the Ashram. By restricting entry, the Trustees are also violating the fundamental rights of the Indian citizens.
When you are not allowed entry, how did you manage to get information out?
Collecting information was a slow and meticulous task. We painstakingly collected documents from different government offices. We have documents beginning in 1969 until 2013. A lot of information we managed to get by filing various RTI applications. Our evidence is solid.
What is the response of other Oshoites?
We are getting support from thousands of Osho disciples around the world. We have a website www.oshowork.org. We are also getting support from people as far away as Russia, Europe and even the Gulf countries. They are backing our action and feel that this ashram must be preserved as a national heritage. This should not be made into a money-making machine as is currently happening.
There are a few obvious corrections needed to Swami Yogesh Thakkar’s answers.
For example the “ashram” always had a list of people that were banned. I myself witnessed Indians being turned away as early as January, 1975. It is not some new policy of the Trustees, it was happening whilst Osho was alive and with his knowledge. It also happened on the Ranch, a friend of mine was “escorted” off the Ranch simply for walking so called off limits and told never to come back.
As I understand it Osho himself did not want some traditional “shrine” devoted to him after death. He simply was not a traditional Indian guru at all. Trying to make him one mocks his memory.
Thakkar says he is getting support for his views from many sannyasins around the world. But the truth is that many want to let the matter rest over the future of the Resort, and create things outside the subcontinent that convey Osho’s energy and grace.
Shiva banned from the Ranch after he left and Sheela told all ashrams, centers and sannyasins not to welcome him or support him, i saw Sheela kick out several of the “share a – home” residents and sannyasins at one large meeting that took place in Randir- must have been at least 500 people who also witnessed it.
Paramartha – “But the truth is that many want to let the matter rest over the future of the Resort, and create things outside the subcontinent that convey Osho’s energy and grace.”
Who is stopping them in doing so, Paramartha ? They (OIF) is still the prime shop where as Delhi, Nepal, Humaniversity etc. are all small shops compared to them. Who stopped them from taking Osho’s energy and grace to the west and all over the world? There was a living and throbbing organization of sannyasins consisting of creative, beautiful and intellectual individuals around Osho when he was alive. Most of those people are still alive but they have simply disintegrated. Its the OIF who is responsible for this and its also OIF who is capable of bring them back together again, if they want to. Blame no body else except OIF for both good or bad. Because they have the upper hand no matter what.
The fact of the matter is that the Prime shop is not able to draw the crowds. They do not know how to carry on what was built by Osho and neither they know how to rebuild it. All they have done is destroy what is already there. Yes, they have done some good things like Osho Radio, translating books to other languages etc., etc. But that work could have been done multiple times more effectively if things were to go more integrated.
Yes, there are people who thinks theirs is the way to go and wants attention etc etc. Its all part of the game and when the chieftain is gone, these things have to be meticulously managed by the inner circle. That’s their main duty, but not banning the people who do not agree with them. Just because Osho banned people, you do the same? Yes, there are exceptions when it comes to safe guarding sanctity or copy rights, you definitely need to be tough. But you have wasted so much energy and money in fighting your own friends. Its high time to at least everyone accept that some thing has gone disorganized in the organization of Osho, one of the most influential personalities of this era of mankind.
Tell me when was the last time, all the players met and discussed about whats going on. What is going on is fighting, allegations, counter allegations, mud slinging and so on. Instead, why not everyone come together at least share and discuss. I am sure something beautiful will come out of it. And I repeat, its only OIF who is capable of bringing everyone together. But are they up for it? is the Question. ?
Hi Newman,
I can see you are sincere, and do not want to unduly upset you at all. But please note:
There was never any democracy around Osho when he was alive – temporal things simply were never discussed so what the current Trustees is doing is no different. I lived as an ashram worker in Pune one, and was a commune member between 1982 and 1986…democracy/discussion as ordinairly understood was a complete no no.
I dont myself think the Trustees have the slightest interest in “having some parliament of interests” to discuss the temporal policies of the organisation. You should give up on that one.
The metaphor may be lost on you, but in big football teams like Arsenal a number of “fans” are banned from games. They also happen to be the most fanatical and small minded of the faithful.
Much does happen Osho wise outside Poona, as far as I have experienced, and much good stuff. Osho Leela for example in the UK is a long time commune which attracts many sorts of energy, Paca Mama in Costa Rica is a very good Osho place. I am told there are similar places in Italy, Israel, Germany, etc. The old sannyains you mention unless deceased have not dissapeared, but do not seek high profile stakes. So it may be that from wherever you are focusing you are too concentrated on Pune and OIF, and by the same token on Delhi.
Remember that Osho one way or the other got rid of hundreds of Indian, so called, disciples from 1974 on. He got fed up with them. I was around then and I am a witness to it. The ashram by 1977 was really “International” and very non Indian place, and many remarked on it, and also a revolutionary place where all social and cultural mores were on the line, particularly those from traditional societies.
Buddha was born in India but his vision is only flourished in other countries. Interestingly Bodhi dharma who is responsible for spreading Budhism in China and beyond is an Indian. Are you saying that the cycle is going to repeat in case of Osho? And who in this case will take Osho’s vision to the countries beyond India? May be an Indian again? may be. ha…ha..
Parmartha, If you keep the difference between a natural death and epidemic in mind, you can understand the difference between banned and banning.
I know for few people ethnic cleansing means visa to Britain!
Moderator can you please explain Shantam’s post as you have approved it. I dont understand it at all!
(MOD: I struggled to get it as well, but I presume he’s trying to say that whereas in the past bans were occasional and justified, now they’re happening far more often and probably indiscriminately, like a disease spreading.
As for “banned and banning”, well, Shantam could do better than that inadequate distinction! Presumably, he’s referring to the past (“banned”) and the present (“banning”)?
Over to you, Shantam!)
Parmartha, should we find a sponsor for your visit to Pune?
When was the last time, you were there?
Most probably during the last century!
Swami Yogesh Thakkarji !
I love you and support you totally!
I became sannyasin when Osho has already left his body in 1991!
Listening to his discourses, I realized that he gave many visions to his Sannyasins!
He never wanted his sannyasins to fit into a particular vision!
He gave visions which would fit to each of his sannyasins, and encourage his growth!
He has many flavours and flowerings in him!
He was open to each and every vision of his!
I met many of his disciples like Vairagya Amrit, Ma Neelam, Ma Dharmjyoti, Chaitanya Keerti, Anand Arun, Swami Rajneesh!
They all carry Osho’s flavours and flowerings!
Swamiji You were fortunate to have experienced those flavours and flowerings directly from Osho!
We had our experiences by sitting silently with His beautiful disciples!
So it really pains my heart, when I go to Pune Commune!
There they impose their fixed vision called Osho Guidance on all!
They close their door to so many other visions given by Osho himself!
Their insistence on fixed Osho Guidance simply suffocates!
Their insistence on Osho as a copy righted Market Product simply looks dry cold business!
I had been to Buddha Field of Buddha in Bodh Gaya, and Buddha Field of Mahaveera in Parasnath!
They are so graceful!
They have different sects carrying different visions!
But all the sects have decided to not sit upon the Buddha Field of their Masters!
They have left the Buddha Field free of them, virgin, pure, open for everybody!
They have made their own places outside their Buddha Field!
All of them go to their Buddha Field, freely worship with their chosen Vision, then come out and go back to their own places!
Their Buddha Field is open to all visions (Sects) of their Master and even for those who are not disciples of their Master!
Coming to Pune, Buddhafield of our beloved Master,
It looks so ugly
to see one vision (Osho Guidance) and one sect ( Jayesh and Company of OIF Inner Circle)
sitting tight over Buddha Field,
and expelling other visions and other disciples!
Osho even when he is not in his body,
Is inspiring people to come to Pune,
And Jayesh & Company,
They are turning them out,
If they do not agree with Vision suiting Jayesh & Company!
How beautiful it will be,
If Jayesh with his vision of Osho Guidance,
moves out of Osho Buddha Field,
opens his place nearby,
and live with sannyasins inspired solely by Osho Guidance!
Jayesh, Amrito, Anando, Anand Arun, Swami Rajneesh, Vairagya Amrit, Ma Dharm Jyoti, Ma Neelam and all other disciples –
going into Osho Buddha Field with their unique flavours,
meditating and celebrating,
and then going back to their own places!
The biggest beneficiary will be new comer disciples like me,
They will get so many flavours, so many flowerings, so many visions
all at one place i.e. Pune Commune,
and freedom to choose what suits us!
But reality is ugly and hard,
Jayesh & Company are going to stick to Buddha Field of Osho,
by hook and crook!
They are not graceful,
they will not let Buddha Field of Osho,
free of them,
open to all,
on their own!
Buddha Field of Osho,
has to be made free and open for all,
through legal route!
So Swami Ji,
Carry on,
We are with you!
Bodh Ekantam’s latest ‘selfie’…
http://i.imgur.com/1zBP4hm.jpg
Beautiful!
‘Beautiful’ for me was to experience the living presence and have personal guidance from Osho himself.
But you have the freedom Bodh to enjoy and celebrate with all the cheap replicas you can find.
Living presence of Osho!
That is alive in many beautiful disciples of Osho!
I have experienced that too!
I found it beautiful!
I am enjoying that presence daily!
I do not carry your type of Ego,
Hence I do not see cheap replicas!
Osho was asked a question about,
how those coming after he is gone,
will feel his presence!
Osho said,
millions have got enlightened before him,
millions shall be getting enlightened after him,
his advice to those coming after him,
whomever you feel like enlightened,
sit by his side silently with receptivity,
ignore his or her looks and words,
focus on your interiority,
if for no reason,
peacefulness and happiness,
starts arising out of your interiority,
you have found my presence!
Osho said,
there are many who are missing me,
by comparing me with masters,
gone long ago like Jesus, Buddha!
Osho said,
similarly do not miss those buddhas,
who shall come after me,
by sticking to my words,
by comparing them with me!
So dear Swami Anand Anubodh,
it is good that you were fortunate!
You are entitled to your good fortune!
I am equally entitled to my good fortune!
You are wrong when you interfere
with my status!
You can remain stuck with Osho!
That will be sensible for you!
But I can not afford to keeping stuck with Osho!
Osho himself said,
listening to my discourses,
seeing my videos,
you will develop eyes,
to spot those who may be helpful to you,
but once you find an enlightened master in flesh,
give more importance to him than me,
because i shall not be there
to correct you, if you misunderstand my words,
that enlightened person in flesh ,
he is existence fresh and communicating,
with you in real present time!
So Swami Anand Anubodh!
We both are drinking from same source!
You may not realized it,
That is human!
It is Ok!
I am glad you have found some consoling words within your PDF downloads.
I feel sorry for you,
despite feeling the osho energy dierectly,
you could not overcome,
your blindness to osho energy
flowing in osho’s disciples!
Your comment implies,
Osho was such an impotent master,
that he could not impart his energy to his disciples,
for those who come after him!
I wonder how older disciples,
like you make such comment,
which just boosts their ego,
while tries to belittle young disciples of their own master,
which also in a way says that Osho was an impotent master!
Bodh,
You are doing an excellent job of belittling yourself. No need for me.
Anand!
You are doing an excellent job of belittling Osho!
You are seeing illusions about me!
Osho never said to me that I belittled him.
In fact we always got on very well together.
(Which is probably why he gave me a part of his physical body)
So I will stay with Osho’s opinion and not yours.
Osho never said
that those coming after him,
will only get consolation
from his pdf downloads!
Osho said
millions after him
will get enlightened
and those enlightened
beings will be of
equal help and blessings
to those coming after him!
So dear anand anubodh!
I will stay with Osho’s
opinion and not yours!
I am sorry much respected Bodh,
I think that if you read through
all your PDF’s again (slowly and
carefully this time)
You will find that Osho does warn
against them being used for 2nd best
consolation.
So please get back to me in a few
years time when you have done that.
Swami Anubodh!
Why it is really so tough
for you oldies
to be just human
equal to others?
Osho has said,
that once somebody
has tasted my presence,
he will be able to taste
the same in future buddhas too!
So dear Anubodh,
just tell me have you
been able to feel
osho’s presence
in any of present buddhas?
If no,
then comeback
after a few years
or few lives
when you are able
to feel presence
of Osho
in not only the present buddhas,
but also in every body,
from sand to stars,
and all humans!
And do you consider yourself to be a buddha Bodh Ekantam?
Do you consider yourself as Buddha, Swami Anubodh?
You are oldie,
answer first!
Yes.
Well I am as enlightened as you!
In Indian Schools we were taught ( in the last century ) that , Buddha was born in Lumbini , Nepal .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25088960
i read about it yesterday- science at work again.. i wonder if the traditionalists will accept it…. they’ve been used to believing in rumor and fairytale all of these years.
“The ashram by 1977 was really “International” and very non Indian place, and many remarked on it, and also a revolutionary place where all social and cultural mores were on the line, particularly those from traditional societies.”
For the kind information of the masses and meditators concerned, the ashram by 1990 was also in the same format. It remained exactly so till 2000 and could have stayed till 4001!
what good hearted jayesh has done is simply to make Pisa Tower, Normal.
and life is such when you try to make exceptional creations normal, they become Abnormal!
You bitch about Jayesh as if you were married to him.
So, let’s assume Osho was not for democracy. Even we were told there would be 21 people deciding about practical things unanimously. So, does it mean Osho said something in public, but he did mean something else behind the doors? And also, is it true Jayesh is his successor, the man ”I leave you my dream” to? I cannot know. If jeyesh is ”the man”. However I do not think I am interested in following my own meditation according to Jeyesh or Amrito. But if Osho wanted it that way other people are just right to decide for them if that is that their path.Actually I would be very happy if it was just openly put out.
Then for my self I must see if I have been romantic about Osho. Then I naturally need to question if Osho’s talk was only the sweet talk of the Indian philosopher in public and something else in real life. Nothing new in life. What was osho’s doctoral thesis about by the way? It must be somewhere, since he is ”professor of philosophy. just interested..
Also, why would people read Osho’s books or do his meditations, if the intension and reality are far from each other’s? It’s good, if people know he did really not mean what he said.
Who on earth would be interested in following Jayesh’s path on meditation or on his path on business? I mean, he can be ok for spending money and creating holyday resort on other people’s money and reputation…but as even a businessman he seems not so successful. Because where are the rich and famous in pune? There are no people. It’s very strange situation. Still, I am not interested in pune any more and” I am doing my own thing”. But these things that have been said take my attention because I might have had totally wrong idea about osho. So, from this point of view this is very interesting for me.
Osho spoke to individuals, and what stage they were on a particular path. He did this all the time, often quite invisibly in lecture, etc. Hence the contradictions about many things.
He rationalised this in a variety of ways, but one good one was that he deliberately set out with the mind to “fox” the mind. The only way for us to leave it aside would be when we were totally confused.
Other leading disciples like Somendra, etc used to say it was the only way that Osho could get us to think and feel for ourselves, that is by treating his every statement at some level with distance and realising that only his presence was important, and all his words should be treated simply as “entertainments”.
Some people here and elsewhere are indeed fond of quoting Osho, and they come up with some beautiful quotes,. and one would not want to discourage them. But at the same time in the end one has to think and feel for oneself, and that is what he wanted.
Now if Samadhi is demolished from pune (for whatever reason/intention) to me it will be the greatest achievement of our Great Master, who has sucessfully destroyed his own Organisation as promised. I bow down to his masterly devices he is performing after leaving physical body. Any amount of money, property does not matter at all.
He wants some of us to get enlightened like him and start our own circus afresh.
I think it is a compliment if I feel like wife to Jayesh.
Better than hundreds of cleaning women!
Is it not so Ms. Arpana!
lol
I wonder in what kind of newspapers people have read about Samadhi demolition in Pune?
I think I should write an article about the concept of Samadhi, Osho´s vision about it, its creation and present day position.
What I see is that most of the sannyasins from the west, know about meaning of Hindi words, which is connected with their names or their lovers name. Rest are only sounds, just like Mantra singing!
Signature image of Sannyasnews; is it Osho´s Samadhi or something else?
I hope editor, writers and readers have also seen, how this place looks like in its new chic look after renovation.
I think this is not everyday history, when Ash treasury has to go for plastic surgery.
Question is why?
Basically Osho Samadhi established
means
Gurudom of Jayesh demolished!
Osho Samadhi demolished
means
Gurudom of Jayesh established for ever!
Osho samadhi that never was
means
Gurudom of Jayesh that ever was!
Osho samadhi that never was,
a cowardly and cunning device,
of Jayesh the Businessman,
to take loans out of Master Osho’s place!