As we remember it, at least half a dozen people were turned away from the Osho Darshans every night during the Pune one hey-days, after passing through the Sniff Test. (Darshan was a daily evening event which gave those so interested the chance to talk to Osho or later to experience “energy Darshan” which might involve Osho making contact with the third eye, amidst a waving sea of specially chosen ecstatic female sannyasins)
To observers the so called sniff test (against any perfume or other smells) … was made by two beautiful female, but bossy sannyasins. What had this to do with what was considered to be”vibe”? When Osho was arraigned in a North Carolina jail in 1985 in a communal cell for some days, Osho did not suffer any asthma attacks or anything like that, so one assumes some “facade” around the sniff test. One remembers one woman turning to another saying “I have washed my hair eight times. . . . but still cannot get in”! How two obviously over bossy female sannyasins could adjudge this vibe is beyond us.
One thing is clearly remembered by regulars at Darshan. This was the behaviour of Shiva, a red-bearded Scottish sannyasin, who when he was deposed in 1981 from his position as “Head Guard” – and sent to drive tractors on the Ranch, left the organisation and wrote a mean and dispiriting book which has rightly been described as a betrayal.
He would intone with full Scottish calvinism (before the smelling started) the instructions. These instructions might have been seen as fair enough, but the curiously unctuous and nasal way he intoned left one between laughter and crying.
The instructions were:
Personal questions about Bhagwan (Osho) are not permitted.
Do not go nearer to Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho) than a metre..
Do not touch him except his feet.
Sometimes there was added
“Do not pass wind in front of Osho”!
In particular his last sentence always seemed unnecessary and unfriendly…. “If you are turned away, wash harder next time”.
And yet despite being framed by this nonsense, something was transmitted in those Darshans beyond a chit chat with the Master, and would explain their vastly oversubscribed popularity. Many can remember being moved into an energetic dreamless state after Darshan that sought no sleep.
Energy Darshan with Bhagwan (Osho), circa 1979
Maybe we can hear here from those who like us experienced those early Darshans and also the nonsense that surrounded them.
Sannyasnews
I am definitely not going to risk making any misinterpretable remarks.
I received my one and only Energy Darshan from Osho.
Is that detailed enough ?
Okay here’s some more. If you didn’t receive Energy Darshan from Osho, then I can’t explain it in words.
There, that should do it.
One word to describe the Darshan photo on the topic ” HEAVEN “
Yup, it’s a good pic mini.
PM, you have to work on your language of experience. Try (the greek word) thambos, which is the feeling one has in the presence of the divine. Unfortunately it doesn’t exist in English perhaps because the English have never experienced divinity to need a word for it.
Back in ancient times, circa 1974 -75, there were three big celebration days, Guru poornima, Enlightenment and Birthday. The ashram was a hive of frenzied activity. Indian sannyasins would arrive from all over the subcontinent and westerners from all over the planet. I loved those days.
The events would culminate with Bhagwan giving darshan, as he sat on a sofa in front of a navy blue flag with a circled golden flame embroidered on it. The Indian sannyasins were an excitable lot and some of them actually performed somersaults in front of Bhagwan to everyones amusement, including Bhagwan if he didn’t have his eyes rolling up into his head. Indian ladies got hysterical and fell at his feet and then had to be dragged away in tears. Being India it was usually hot and all those bodies crammed together made it at times stifling. At times the stench of body odour was quite overwhelming. Nonetheless I did not notice any indications that Bhagwan was in any way affected by the stink. In fact I was amazed at how relaxed he was about the whole scenario. Eating prasad on the way home was a delicious treat.
A few years down the line everyone had to undergo the sniff test before getting in close physical proximity to Bhagwan. One became paranoid about chatting to anyone on the way who was smoking a beedie or using perfumed shampoo. Scentless cleaning products soon became available for sale in the ashram shop. If you failed the test it was all seen as significant…my energy isn’t right…karmic etc. In retrospect the whole sniff test scenario reeks of pure bullshit.
There is no doubt that Osho was an extremely sensitive man on all levels, including physical. He took extraordinary care in terms of personal hygiene. His nails were always perfectly manicured, his skin complexion excellent and his clothes immaculate and always freshly pressed. Those of you who sat close to Osho will be aware that he used an exotic balm, which once smelled was never forgotten. I’d have loved to have a bottle of what was probably very expensive skin oil. Lovely fragrance.
Osho did have allergies and was an asthmatic. but he wasn’t so sensitive that it was necessary to go to the lengths they did in order to sit close to him, in terms of using special soap etc. I did not realise it then but in retrospect I see the smell allergy thing as a beginning sign that all was not quite right in the house of Osho.
To cut to the chase, I reckon that Bhagwan did not become alergic to smells, but rather people. Everyone wanted to get close to him. Hardly surprising claiming who he claimed to be and doing what he did. He did not perform miracles in the classic sense, but the effect he had on people on such a large scale and in such a positive way could be taken as really quite miraculous. I think the pressure on him must have been tremendous and this took its psychological and phsyiological toll on Osho. People were looking to him for salvation on a masive scale.
They say be careful, you might get what wish for. Osho in the late sixties was definitely wishing for more followers, especially westerners, preferably wealthy. He got what he wished for.
Of course many will argue that what I am saying is nonsense, which doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I was a fly on the wall at some pretty interesting events as far as Bhagwan is concerned and what I say is not said without a lot of consideration in this case. Being the master of masters was a role that he played extremely well for some years before the strain of living up to others’ expectations took its inevitable toll, The sniff test was more than anything an indicator of the vibe around Bhagwan at the time. It was one of the first of a number of absurdities that began to happen ever more frequently during those halcyon years.
So there you have it. Osho became allergic to the very people that during his younger years he set out to attract. And if it had anything to do with a smell it was definitely a fishy one.
Namaste comrade. Perfect response.
You make a lot of scents!
In a world gone mad with oshobots and rajparrots, one man dares to lead the resistance in a sea of conformity and trite pabulum.
We salute you for your heroic bouquet of nuanced reflection (before any malodorous machines bring their oily stench.)
I am there! before the fall of the oshoan empire, before the trade in scentless shampoo, performing somersaults of delight in this more smelly but innocent time, with the lord of the full moon.
One whiff of your prose is the fragrance of the rose.
Life Love Laughter.
Lokesh says:
>> To cut to the chase, I reckon that Bhagwan did not become allergic to smells, but rather people.
Excellent observation. Your whole post is superb.
To me the sniff test was just another (just another) zen stick.
“I wonder where the line between zen stick and self-interested con is.”
from ‘Dummies guide to being a Master’
Chap 1 – ‘Keep ‘em guessin.’
BV, I take that as a compliment. Thank you.
Oh Nostalgia from Pune One.
Many people left the theater when the sign of intermission came, and they still think that was the end of the movie.
Few such people were very innocent yet few were quite foxy.
Snews is the place to find both.
Shantam, Osho was not a man who spent too much time on nostalgia. He had a few excursions into it, Glimpses of a Golden Childhood being a good example and as it happens a very interesting read. I too have little time for sentimentality for the past. This thread has to do with the past and if one wants to relate to it it is a prerequisite to recall events long gone, but there is no need to indulge in sentimentality in order to do so.
You weren’t in Poona One and feel that it is important to emphasize the importance of Poona Two. I think primarily because you were there. I’ve no doubt Poona Two was an excitng time in your life but what you say doesn’t really relate to the topic. Besides the fact that you never actually met Osho in the normal sense of meeting someone.
An increasing number of people are visiting this website and my above comment is directed at people who know nothing about those times as well as regular contributors.
When it comes to sentimentality I see you as a major culprit, because you, Shantam, are constantly relating to how the resort should be run based on past impressions. Its a lost cause because the resort is in the hands of people who are running it how they wish today, not built on impressions of yesteryear which relate to Osho’s heritage, legacy, vision etc. Osho’s vision at best is very open to interpretation.
The threads of late have been far from inspirational, although it must be said that the editors are doing their best in terms of creating new topics. The rest is up to the regulars to make the best of it, something which you are failing to do, mainly because you are running on a fixed agenda which is firmly based in nostalgia for how things could have been.
(ED: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED IN PLACES).
About the energy darshan in Pune One. I think exactly in Pune One Osho Himself discontinued this practice. Surely, he has not found the desired results, though photos of that time can still make many of newcomers thirsty.
So where there is demand, supply comes. One can see on the facebook, many mini gurus try to create the similar atmosphare. I am sure Placebo works.
(ED: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED)
shantam prem says:
>> I am sure Placebo works.
Yes Shantam, it does. Everytime. And Swami Raj is one of the proofs for you. How much proof do you want? If you can stand back, far enough, Osho was also a Placebo. And that worked too.
Placebo domingo….you can make a carreras out of it.
Carmen down. For a tenor…it’ll keep you bizet.
My sannyas initiation was Winter 82 and saw Osho for first time at the Ranch. Energy Darshan was at a drive by. I had a impression if the whole inside turned 180º up side down. After I became sick and went to the medical center. Doctors asked if I like to stay with the Master or better leaving. Sure, I decided to stay – went for French fries and Ice cream.
Many came thirsty for “Enlightenment”, others with a thirst for “Truth”. I’m more the truth type.
As Lokesh put it in better words, nice that interested people can read as long a few are left who met Osho alive. The sniffing I found reasonable. I know it from my self. If your body is fragile from disease perhaps, a little bad smell takes the Body into problems. Osho said: “I leave you my dream” thus I continue to discover lie and water that what I’ve found true.
Sniffing corrupts, absolute sniffing corrupts absolutely.
Perhaps it was a ploy to raise the bar on unwashed hippiedom.
Peace love and wash harder.
Sniffing and metal detectors were also a feature of Poona 2, even with an empty chair.
Not passing wind in front of Osho, or your neighbour, is a social courtesy that has universal merit amongst 10,000 buddhas all sitting, releasing, and eating daal together.
Might there not have been some Osho No-fart trainings or Zen and the Art of Bootytoot, to help the less fortunate and control enabled?
These days, in the age of neuroscience, a brain scanner with more sophisticated controls could be employed.
As well as the standard olfactory test, all potential psychopaths could be screened out and given jobs as sniffers, guards, therapriests and general management. It’s a win win.
I wasn’t there, so I can’t comment, but judging by the photo above, it looks better than sex.
During the many times I met Osho he never once passed wind, even though he was a windbag. H didn’t even let one go in the employ of the secret service and had he done so many would have sworn it smelled of roses, because a rose is a rose is a rose.
Or Chanel No.2.
In fact many little known darshan diaries and zen titles carry his unscented/scented message. For the old farts….
-Above all, don’t wobble or fart.
-Ancient music in the pines
-Buttydharma the greatest zen master
-The goosefart is out
-No water, no moon, no flatus
-Kyozan: the silent but deadly one
As well as the music…
-Like the wind in the trees
-Open window!
-Sambodhi tooting music
-After the thunder the rain
-Blown away
-Buddhas enjoying freedom
-Live from buddha hall: butt blasters, vol 1
-Evening satsang with the master special edition
How does Lokesh know that Osho never once passed wind ?? Was his nose always behind Osho ?? To call Osho a windbag is rubbish.
Mini Kang, your two questions deserve a full response because they are very significant. Unfortunately I don’t have time at the moment as I am fully engaged with tuning my bagpipes for next week’s clan gathering at Braemar’s highland games. I will give a short response to your statement, ‘To call Osho a windbag is rubbish.’ Which is entirely correct if taking windbag to mean a person who says a lot but conveys little of importance. By calling Osho a windbag what I meant to convey was that he was a lot like a flexible air-filled chamber of a bagpipe or similar instrument. I’m terribly sorry for any misunderstanding, my fault entirely. Thanks ever so much for bringing this important point to mine and everyone else reading this comments attention, as it definitely is a very serious matter. Now then, back to my bagpipe tuning.
Lokesh, how convenient, sometimes going into silence, this time a bagpipe festival !
// By calling Osho a windbag what I meant to convey was that he was a lot like a flexible air-filled chamber of a bagpipe or similar instrument. I’m terribly sorry for any misunderstanding, my fault entirely.//
You have a wonderful imagination, with a twist and turn in fantasy wordplay. Master weaver of words.
On a positive side, blowing into bagpipes is very healthy for your lungs, and so is your swimming in the ocean everyday. Atleast you have healthy lungs !
Touching the forhead, keeping the hand on the top of the head; one Mr. Sri Bhagwan from South India has developed the complete Diksha Package.
I think those who miss Osho bus in the west have got their diksha energy from him directly or from the franchise holders!
I have always this cynical smyle when i see people from rich countries standing in the begging line for some kind of esoteric nourishment.
Who says rich are not poor on different level or the innocent looking Indians cannot win gold medal, atleast in the art of Chutzuph they are doing quite remarkable!
I know for a fact that people who become enlightened or go through samadhi become very sensitive to smells, the breath becomes very still and silent.
I have lived around Swami Rajneesh for 8 years, and seen such examples many times. Whenever someone smokes even 100 yards away, Swami Rajneesh starts coughing and we have to leave the place immediately. He starts coughing and cannot breathe easily. Even strong perfumes and smells make him start whooping cough and his breathing gets affected.
He explained to me, that the breathing has become almost invisible, and his breath is very slow and deep. Almost like no breath around him. He was in state of vipassana for the past 25 years and the breath becomes subtle and still.
He has spoken about the inner breath that starts after samadhi. It is like cool peppermint and very cooling and blissful inside the body. This creates an allergic reaction to smells and smoke for the body. As the breathing becomes stopped and very still, smoke upsets the expanded open breath.
He explains that perfume, makes the breath focus on small area, and that is why people use perfume, to attract attention of others through the sense of smell. Otherwise the breath is expanded, and does not need to shrink.
I have lived and seen huge allergic reactions also in Swami Rajneesh whenever he travels. His whooping cough and allergies are very difficult for us to see. Although Rajneesh says that it is what he has to go though to meet new people we are also becoming aware of such issues.
His explanation of inner breath is very valuable, as he was in vipassana for so many years that breath becomes key to stillness.
Body is like an engine and its basic mechanism remains same in all human beings. Its a proven fact that life span of animals is directly proportional to the length of breath. For ex. dogs take quick and faster breaths and their life span is short where as humans take comparatively longer breaths and their life span is longer. With meditation and yoga , breath can be made even slower like SR ( as you mentioned).
Beyond that, I cannot conceive how smell can affect anyone. Some people are simply allergic to certain things but what enlightenment has to do with it. ?
Anand Newman,
Swami Rajneesh has explained in his talks, that one of the 5 senses is smell. When one is open, the breath expands and is relaxed and slow.
When perfume is present the sense of smell shrinks, and the breathing becomes restricted. If one is sensitive to breath after many years of vipassana, then perfume will choke breathing and create a situation, like massive whooping cough or asthma attack.
Whereas this might be true of certain people, probably mainly easterners, it doesn’t necessarily hold good for all.
For example, Free John (whatever his name became!), Barry Long, Papa-ji (Lokesh?), Meher Baba, and various others.
Danger in such an idea is extreme sensitivity to smell becomes some sort of precondition for spiritual realisation. There might even be some who believe this to be the case….
Mini reveals, ‘Swami Rajneesh has explained in his talks, that one of the 5 senses is smell.’
This is ground-breaking news. When will the names of the other four senses be revealed? Or is humanity not yet evolved enough to have these incredible revealations betowed upon it by the new enlightener of mankind?
Its interesting stuff.
What`s really amazing is that I am not even enlightened yet,but I`m nevertheless already completely allergic to Bullshit!
Even at a distance of,say 4000 miles,it can make my nose twitch,my belly contract,my hand involuntarily to slap my thigh and I emit loud sounds from my mouth,even to the point of my eyes watering
hahahahahaha
Naw, Papai wasn’t allergic to anything other than bullshit. If his fine-tuned hooter got a whiff of that he did not beat around the bush.
Papaji enjoyed to chew pan in his frree time. A pretty toxic cocktail by the looks of it. Early one morning, I accompanied one of his aides downntown Lucknow on his daily pan purchasing excursion. I saw what went in those leaves. Liquified it could have stripped paint.
I mean to say, there are certain sectsof sadhus who have as an initiation test placing twenty water-soaked gunny sacks over their heads in sub zero tempratures. Not only do they have to survive but also have to defrost the gunny bsacks to the point of being bone dry. Tough stuff!
I don’t see what being allergic to smells has to do with anything spiritual. If I were Swami Rajneesh’s physician I would run an analysis to see if he is suffering from an enzyme deficiency- Osho was allergic to perfume but immune to tubes up his nostrils feeding him nitrous oxide. It’s a ridiculous joke. Some people are willing to believe anything they are being fed. Plenty of evidence of that on SN currently.
// Papaji enjoyed to chew pan in his frree time. A pretty toxic cocktail by the looks of it. Early one morning, I accompanied one of his aides downntown Lucknow on his daily pan purchasing excursion. I saw what went in those leaves. Liquified it could have stripped paint. //
An enlightened being could never eat a pan. It is toxic poison and no enlightened person would put poison in the body they love. Punjaji shows signs of self torture and anti body, harmful being.
Pan and pan masala is even banned in most countries.
I once ate a pan in India and know how harmful it was for the body. The white chalk in the pan is poison.
Have you heard of Gurdjieff, mini kang? I suggest you ‘enlighten’ yourself by researching his personal habits.
You might also consider Osho’s intake of nitrous oxide, a proven poison, which he arguably took enough of to adversely affect his health and contribute to his relatively early death.
There are other instances, plenty of them, apparently.
You appear to have a very sentimental view of such people. Take off those rose-coloured specs, open your eyes – and your mind.
A friend of mine,who was very close to Papaji in the early days,and who lived in his house for a couple of years, told me of how,amongst his duties, he was in charge of emptying the full-to-overflowing pan spittoons in Papajis household,and scrubbing the red stains from the walls.
He also told me this story: Papaji was coming home from a cricket match one day with some friends and disciples .The Master was in high spirits,his team had won the match and he had chewed a few betel-pans at the game and decided to have a bhang-kulfi ice cream on the way home.
It happened to be Ramadam at the time ,and a group of passing Muslims expressed their disapproval to him.
Papaji,not bring one to take any bullshit from anyone ,immediately lowered his trousers and mooned the Muslims with his bare buttocks,and uttered a few obscenities.In the fracas that ensued,a Hindu-Muslim riot was only narrowly avoided.
When Papaji and his group all got home,his disciples were somewhat shocked and they asked him why he had done it.
He just laughed,spat out his pan,roared like a lion and fell down on the floor in a deep meditative trance.
My friend said that at that moment,he had an important realisation: The ways of the enlightened ones cannot be judged from the unenlightened perspective.
An important teaching.
Anand Yogi description of Papaji lowering his pants, and the story after, shows a retarded person who is filled with anger, reacts like an angry person. And Papaji is enlightened ??
Again, you seem to have a predetermined, rigid idea of how an ‘enlightened’ man is ‘supposed’ to act, mini kang. Apparently, like some some sort of flawless, perfect-in-every-way god, the sort of image we had forced upon us of Jesus when we were young.
Or for some, like an ‘ideal father’?
Again, I refer you to, among others, Gurdjieff.
And, if you think your own teacher is ‘enlightened’, then take a look at his track record on here, for example!
You fell for it mk. You’re being played like a windy bagpipe.
Your comment is perfectly right Mini.
The whole story really does show up a retarded person who is filled with anger and reacts like an angry person.
SatyaDeva says : // Take off those rose-coloured specs, open your eyes – and your mind.//
Mind is never open, it is always recollects from the past and closed with judgments and opinions.
My eyes are open, as my heart see through innocence. And yes, to see the beauty of a Rose is innocence. I love my Rose colored specs, would suggest you get one also.
Mini, you think Osho did not use his mind, that he did everything by intuition?
What SD means is that your viewpoint and standpoint shows that you are not very open. You parrot spiritual aphorisms as if they are a fact of your life, when all the time your writing reflects that is not in fact true. If someone asked me to sum the way you appear via your writing on SN I’d say ‘confused’. You are also very predictable and gullible. I know you mean well but that is difficult to get across because you are misguided.
I could feel sorry for you but I don’t and having people say they feel sorry for someone can rob that someone of their remaining dignity. You are where you are because that is where you need to be. Perhaps yours is a case of having to get into something in order to get out of it. Who knows? Yes, there is a certain innocence coming across in your writing, while on the other hand that innocence shows signs of corruption, which might be a result of hanging out with the wrong people. From a distance I can only guess. One thing is for sure…all is not well on the good ship Kang.
Lokesh has so many judgments here on SN about me.
Lokesh says // la la la la Parrot aphorisms, confused, misguided, corruption, not open, wrong people, and la la la la, so many various judgments and opinions about me, when he never even met me !
And your judgments and opinions of others on here, mini k?
Or don’t they count?
Now now mini, the boys are not kanging up on you.
Alpha papa lokesh and all your uncles here are just looking out for you.
We don’t want you to fall in with the wrong crowd (too late).
Innocence has its charm, but inner sense even moreso.
Too late indeed, Dom. Once the klingons subject an innocent human to the power of the dreaded brainwasher device there is little hope left for the victim. Before you know it they’ll be foaming at the mouth, having swallowed so much OMO.
OMO..hmm..yes, supposed to add brightness… and remove stains not brains!
The More-ons with a big pile of esoteric laundry already come pre-washed and pre-softened, so the Kling-ons have an easier job.
The whole brand from Unever-lever, a very effective deter-agent.
Highly recommended for a good whitewash and brainwash.
Mini, I’m well aware that I’ve never met you physically and I’ll repeat what I’ve said before in connection to this on SN…I’ve no desire to meet you. If you return to my comment you will perhaps notice the following, ‘ If someone asked me to sum the way you appear via your writing on SN I’d say ‘confused’. ‘ Via your writing, is the important point.
Mini, in general you are way out of your depth on sannyas news. You could use the situation to learn something, instead of putting up your banal arguments. I will repeat something else I said in the above, ‘ You are also very predictable’, your above comment is a perfect example of that.
Mini, I rest my case for the moment. Good luck with your personal movie,’ utterly lost in space’. It can be entertaining to play with you, but it certainly has its limitations. I’ve wasted enough time for just now. So if I don’t respiond to your comments you can rest assured that I simply can’t be bothered.
Lokesh says // Mini, in general you are way out of your depth //
Is SN a swimming pool ?? Oh you are soo “deep” in your wisdom !
Tired of advising newcomers ??
If you stop creating opinions about me, i would clearly not respond, to your negative judgments and opinions, OK ?
Mini kang, I suggest you would be well served by giving more value to your mental functioning, basic intellectual clarity, as you so often fail to grasp what’s being put to you here.
Not only that, you neatly avoid difficult issues by resorting to pseudo-spiritual cliches like those of your last paragraph above, totally failing to address the point in question, ie the behaviour of the ‘enlightened’.
If that’s the best answer you can provide, then why not have the courage to front up and admit that you were mistaken, that you have an over-idealised image of such people?
Then perhaps look into how this false picture has arisen in you. Is it through infantile wish-fulfilment, the desperation of an unhealed, unhappy child? The sentimental presentations of Jesus Christ from the wretched Christian religion, perhaps? Disillusion from human love? Or from somewhere else?
Now an honest, fearless look at that would be surely of far greater benefit than mindlessly repeating spiritual cliches and other people’s words.
But are you ‘mindful’ enough to see that, let alone admit it (and ‘lose face’?) on here?
Satya Deva, Just read your message, judgments and judgments and opinions only.
// resorting to pseudo-spiritual cliches, mental functioning, infantile wish-fulfilment, the desperation of an unhealed, unhappy child? //
My my such physiological insights ? Are you a physiologist by profession ??
I repeat, you always avoid the issue when cornered. Here you are doing it yet again – totally predictable, as usual, mechanical, robotic.
Have you researched Gurdjieff yet?
How about Osho and nitrous?
Are you still clinging to your sentimental concepts of how a spiritual master is ‘supposed to be’?
If so, why?
PS: I expect you mean ‘psychologist’ (not ‘physiologist’!)?
No, mini k, it’s simply about common sense and experience – informed by, you know, an ‘open mind’….
“common sense” and an “open mind” satyadeva ? ha ha ha ha ha ha – no – osho is for madmen only – your common sense is ignorance and will not allow you to fly – and your open mind is nothing of the kind – it forms its negative judgements based on its own robotic programming and is not qualified to judge those whose concern is not the mind, but rather to fly beyond mind
researching gurdjieff ? for what ? – to support your mind game ? – noone here ever knew gurdjieff –
however mini speaks from direct experience of a buddha having lived with one the last eight years and is not having “sentimental concepts of how a spiritual master is ‘supposed to be’ ”
she knows very well how rajneesh is and those commenting here who never met him are the ones making up ignorant concepts removed from the reality
and the other wise old judge lokesh – his judgements reflect on himself only – he can swim and others are out of their depth – ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha – we might learn something from him – ha ha ha ha ha ha ha –
ah well i could continue and respond to more of the wise sayings of guru loco lokeshji disciple of daddyji but to repeat one his utterances of wisdom “I simply can’t be bothered”
You seem to forget the original issue, DR, where mini kang said no enlightened one would ever take so-called ‘harmful’ substances.
Which, as I clearly pointed out, giving the well-documented examples of Gurdjieff and yes, of Osho (and there are plenty of others, eg Maharaj, the ‘beedi baba of Bombay) is transparently not the case. Which not even your wilfully blind, bumptious blustering can obscure.
You’re another in some urgent need of respecting basic intellectual clarity, rather than choosing to go off on an arrogant pseudo-spiritual rant, imagining that all here are stupid enough to forget what the point of the debate actually concerns.
Your watchword – like mini k, of course – would appear to be, ‘when cornered, give ‘em a load of irrelevant propaganda!’ Is that also what you’ve learned from your swami? Or are you just a natural bullshine merchant?
A deeply ironic aspect of DR’s determination to establish he’s on the way to the higher consciousness of ‘no mind’ (and therefore far superior to others he views as more earth-bound mortals, ie ‘no hopers’), is his obvious attachment to highly emotional outbursts against his perceived ‘enemies’, aka his critics.
No one, it seems, has bothered to inform him that that’s the very sort of nonsense the so-called ‘spiritual path’ aims to dissolve.
Imagine – a man loudly and self-importantly – claiming he’s well on the way to what amounts to ‘self-obliteration’, while, in his very outpourings of angry superiority over ‘lesser seekers’ continually feeding the very self – call it ‘ego’, if you like – that he’s supposed to be trying to obliterate!
Perfectly and utterly hilarious, a very feast of delusion, a suitable case for satirical ridicule if ever there was one!
the original issue was oshos darshan satyadeva, which parmartha reminded us of the energy there and i was sharing my own experience of that as he asked us to
now you make up your own trivial issues to argue about and then complain if you are not answered – where is your “intellectual clarity” sataydeva – your mind is nothing but a robot spinning endless negative judgements and trying to prove itself right
And there we have it:
The sound of one man avoiding an issue.
His motive?
He would like to think it’s what he says it is (for he is such a wise man), but a small boy in the crowd suddenly calls out, “It’s obvious, he’s covering up for mini k! She don’t know nuffink. She’s naked, innit?! And look, he’s gone all red!”
In fact, what DR likes to call this “trivial issue” is relevant to the main topic of this thread as it concerns the varying sensibilities of spiritual masters, as indicated by certain of their personal habits.
Such evidence clearly tends to demonstrate that being ultra-sensitive to smell is far from a universal characteristic of these people, which is something to bear in mind when ignorant, emotionally-driven zealots try to pretend otherwise in order to attempt to give added substance to their wish to think them ‘ultra-special’, ‘god-like’, in every conceivable way.
(And btw, if it’s irrelevant, then surely Mr Raj should similarly admonish mini k for her contribution to the debate? Or is he somehow, er, biased? Of course not – perish the very thought!).
thats the difficulty for people with inferiority complexes – they have to continually work hard to try and prove themselves superior
ha ha ha ha ha – “and there we have it” – trial for the prosecution satyadeva – dont you have anything to share with us about your experience of osho’s darshan and the energy there ?
And there we have it, an uninvited encore! (Welcome, by the way, to Mr Raj’s crash course on ‘How to Avoid Rather Tricky Issues’).
But I guess “that’s the difficulty for people with inferiority complexes – they have to continually work hard to try and prove themselves superior”!
Quite, quite so, Mr Raj. Never realised the profound extent of your self-knowledge, sir!
Actually, pan is not really ‘poison’, but does contain betel nut which is good for digestion. (In moderation). Obviously people put different mixtures into their pan.
You’re not wrong about paan being a carcinogenic narcotic.
You are naive about what so-called enlightened beings get up to, including the nitrous kid.
Mini,
You are wasting your time, because anyone reading SN regularly, who has a little common sense in their head, is already completely aware of that. You declare, ‘An enlightened being could never eat a pan.’ Yet Osho OD’d on nitrous oxide and barbiturates…not exactly the kind of fare they dish up at the local health food shop. How does that fit into your ideas of what an enlightened person does or does not do?
In Lennon’s famous words … “Whatever gets you through the night, it’s all right.”
Ppl are way too quick to judge.
[[ Just a few days before, a young man asked me, "What do you think, Osho, about hash?" I said, "First thing, don't be so disrespectful about hash. Show a little respect. To rhyme with 'Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' you can call it 'Maharishi HASHISH Yogi,' but be respectful! And if you are not a follower of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, then to rhyme with 'Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh' you can call it 'Bhagwan Shree HASHISH' -- but be respectful!" ]]
Ecstasy – The Forgotten Language
mini kang says:
>> Swami Rajneesh has explained in his talks, that one of the 5 senses is smell.
Did you know … that smell is the only sense that is directly connected to the brain? If fact it is more than that. A piece of the brain has exited the cranium and is siting at the top of your nose. That is how important it is. And did you know that in sex is one of the few times that we use all five senses together? Also, tell your Swami that there is a sixth sense, the sense of time. He will like that because I know he likes watches. Lesson over.
Swami’s nose knows!
Perhaps an even larger than normal piece of his brain, has exited the cranium explaining his supersense.
His sick sense seems to be working just fine.
Evidently he has gone beyond the simple limitations of the sensory field into pure Non Sense.
Entrance to the morning discourse was also subject to a “sniff test”
I had never had any problems until one day when I was invited into the office and asked if I would like to marry an American Sannyasin, apparently my British passport could help her avoid visa issues.
It was explained to me the important work she was doing within the ashram.
I politely declined (I did not want to get involved with immigration fraud.)
I thought that was the end of the matter until the next day when I was sniffed out of the morning discourse for the first time, presumably a punishment for not being ‘surrendered’ enough.
I was made to go forward and sit in the quarantine area which actually put me far closer to Bhagwan as I was late and would have been sitting at the distant back.
For me, it was an insight as to how much superstition permeates
Sannyasins.
If Bhagwan was so sensitive to odours that those failing the test had to be put to one side, fair enough.
But it’s not clear how the offensive odours themselves would know they had to stay within the quarantine zone?
(I was first in Poona in 1975 and cannot remember a Darshan sniff in those earlier days)
There’s a new bod in town, enlightening the endarkenment.
A worthy contribution and a further inspiring snapshot of ashram life.
As stevie puts it…..
“Very superstitious….
Keep me in a daydream…
When you believe in things that you don’t understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition ain’t the way, yeh, yeh “
Anubodh,
yes you are right, and also Lokesh alludes to it in his detailed post above. I came to Pune one in late 1974 and there were certainly no sniff tests at that time. You are also right about the additional lecture sniff tests, which were also introduced later. They also did not exist in 1974.
Maybe as Vartan says this was some kind of device at best. The common parlance at the time was it did not reflect any smells, but the vibe of the individual. So people would say, “Yeah, I was feeling pissed off this morning, and they picked up on me at the weigh in”!
However those bossy sannyasin Mas were beginning to raise their heads too high at that time, 78/79 and I cannot see how they had some special knowledge of vibe… in fact Anubodh as your story relates they thought to give you a hit, irrespective of how you smelt, because of your refusal to accept their own questionable marriage manipulations.
Osho shared a communal cell in North Carolina with a number of criminals, etc with all night ghetto blasters. It did not seem to affect his asthma, or anything like that, and nothing around this issue, as far as I am aware, has ever been mentioned from that experience re his sensitivity to prison smells, which one can attest are sometimes rather on the strong side!
Often typical, if a person has a weak health though within an actual stress situation the Body goes in a reserve modus. It is a miracle the Body manages it from within, even we are normally would collapse of the imposition. After the stress is over, within short time that body collapses and needs urgent rest.
Well now parmartha mini k says
“I know for a fact that people who become enlightened or go through samadhi become very sensitive to smells…”
and if she says it’s a fact based on the best scientific data we have available, i.e. the horse’s mouth, then that’s good enough for me.
With all that a buddha has to go through, with the olfactory sensitivity of a bee, are you suggesting it might be a ‘sting’?
‘Sniff’, I’m going to cry…
Anubodh says, ‘For me, it was an insight as to how much superstition permeates Sannyasins.’
I’d go a bit further and say almost all religions and spiritual groups and cults. In regards being around a master the major doublethink must be that, in regards our particular topic, a master creates obstacles to test a disciple’s faith or earnestness on his or her quest for truth. With such an idea at play all manner of bizarre situations can be written off, in sannyas parlance, as a device.
Super perfect observation, lokesh. (Oh stop it dominic…)
Zen stick, device, crazy wisdom……or just plain crazy?
Osho was a great showman. Probably one of the greatest. Even through not really having one original idea in his head, and just by commenting on other great ppl that existed, he jumbled up a show that we are still discussing if it was real or not …
When you look at his early work you can see that he flirted one with politics and two with socialism before he latched onto mysticism (or whatever you want to call it). His move from one subject to the next is seamless. He was a master after all, but I cannot figure out is … of what?
Vartan:
He was a master after all, but I cannot figure out is … of what?
SD:
You write as if you’re assessing a philosopher, or even some sort of all-purpose media commentator.
You surely can not be serious?
i suppose he is – this must be an expression of the transformation of consciousness that vartan experienced by believing he is oshos friend – now he can make the master his inferior and make silly statements proving he has no idea of osho at all
(ED: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED)
You still didn’t get it the first time DR, I was never his friend, he was my friend (and still is).
Think again. Please.
Me serious? God (Allah, Anunna) forbid.
To grasp a subject you have to able to argue, for it, and against it. I love looking at Osho thru using different points of view. I never look at Osho as up or down. Only across. Don’t be afraid, he won’t bite. Not today.
i know you are not oshos friend vartan
the way you write about him its obvious you are far from being his friend
its a strange way to refer to one you think is your friend, to say he is a subject to be grasped, or a placebo, and his enlightenment is a fiction –
what good can oshos friendship do you ? if he is your friend then that friendship is abused and spurned
Exactly Bodhi Vartan, if you cannot figure it out…of what…
He must be, a master of mysticism !
I would say he must pass muster as a magnificent master of mystery.
amazing how a small inconvenience for anubodh one day has become a “superstition” and “doublethink” -
it seems some people will clutch at any straw to make out they were being conned by osho –
no wonder he made up a story about being a friend not a master to get rid of them –
(ED: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED)
An Interesting theme it specifies how destructive Idealizing of particular circumstances are. Guess, nowhere in History more lies and confusion hidden than in our admiration for spirituality. Concepts like “Here and Now”, ”Enlightenment” and “Karma” become poison in hands of believers. Another opportunity to be egoistic and merciless, as the present world proofs? If somebody is using the concept of “Here and Now” and it has not risen through his self realization, it’s poison. The flavor of confusion we know pretty well, here we are stuck.
”Enlightenment” and “Karma” (to which I could add “Reincarnation” AND a few others are fictions. I could come up with a new one: “The Second Coming (for men)”. If you are spiritual enough and practice correctly you can come twice bang-bang in one go … and I bet some will start experiencing it (or in common language, lying about it).
But the “Here and Now” is different because the mind is always somewhere else and by bringing the subject in the here and now, it gives the subject (probably the first taste) that one is separate from the mind. I learned that from my first sannyasin girlfriend. She wouldn’t let me go anywhere. I’d say that most ppl outside our world identify with their minds.
Are not energy darshans kind of Cialis or Viagra: effect lasts till certain time, memories of those great moments for ever!
The full force of energy darshan was amazing. It would be good to hear others who felt so too. I certainly can remember waltzing to the following morning without sleep, etc on a few occasions.
Someone here has said it was like any other drug, and wore off after a while. Not really, once one has been opened up to that sort of ecstasy it is never forgotten, and one is more open to it and more quickly as time goes by. It certainly has nothing to do with one’s individual will or ego, it just takes over and it is much bigger than that.
Because energy darshan or lecture was surrounded by nonsense does not mean it tainted the actual darshan or discourse itself.
thank you parmartha for reminding us of the truth of oshos darshan – the amazing energy phenomenon that it was – that touched the lives of so many who can never forget the blessings which have showered on them
the comments focusing on trivia and ignoring this i find depressing really,
(ED: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED)
i myself came late in 1980 to poona and bhagwan – the days of bhagwans energy darshans as depicted in the photo were long over – discontinued i heard according to osho for the reason that the sannyasins blessed and energised in such a way had become dependant on him and were not doing the meditation themselves to bring themselves up –
and i have heard that bhagwans vitality was also being drained from this practise and it was turning his face grey and harming his health
i attended one darshan – when i took sannyas from osho in march 1981
yes it seemed touch and go whether i would be allowed in to laotsu and chuang tzu hall – at the gate the two sniffer girls discussed amongst themselves if they would allow me in or not –
i could see the desire to go in under threat, the ego arise that i want and someone is preventing – but i just felt ah well – theres nothing to be done – you cannot argue with those girls – let it be as it is – after being asked to button up my shirt i was passed
sitting there behind the people who were taking sannyas that night – there were thirteen and i was the last one – hearing bhagwan speak to each about their new names – yes the energy level was so intense – and to be carried along in it was an experience never to be forgotten – there was such an energy – i could not even see bhagwan as a person really even though he was only a two or three metres away – to me he felt like a demon – and an angel – the dark and the light together – a huge energy wave that would carry me with it from then on
this energy permeated the ashram and was the climate we were fortunate enough to have around us and moving through us – it was experienced in all the discourses and meetings with bhagwan – a raising up of energy – and we were energised and alive
last night with a dozen others i met rajneesh – although there was no show, no meditation – all that was happening was the work being done to create our new ashram being discussed, dinner being eaten – i felt that same energy field – difficult not to close the eyes and relax into a deep meditative state – stoned – drifting away from the body mind
ha ha ha – when we are attending to earthy practical issues not desirable to allow this –
i again feel blessed to have the luck to be around a buddha – and as parmartha describes his experience with osho darshan – i am feeling energised and relaxed and awake the whole night
an immense amount of detailed work has been put in to create the new commune – and more still needs to be done before it is ready enough to start and rajneesh will allow himself and us to again bring ourselves into deep spaces of meditation through dance and silence
the buddhafield of osho will regain its full on aliveness that parmartha and other sannyasins experienced – and energise a new generation of sannyasins – we are preparing the ground now for this to happen
What is interesting about Dhyanrage’s comment is that he doesn’t stop for a moment to contemplate that everything he describes might just be a projection of his inner workings. I think that it is very important to learn that gurus are a convenient screen to project all manner of things onto and what you imagine may have nothing at all to do with the master, or mistress in certain cases. Afterall, it may be the case that everything we see, hear, believe etc is a complete maya that we dream. We might be utterly alone and none of this actually exists other than being a projection of our latent tendencies and karmic consequences.
I’ve arrived at these observations through various means and know it as an existential fact that in reality it is all just a play of light and sound. Ouspensky went in search of the miraculous but if he’d changed his perceptions he might have discovered that the miraculous surrrounds us in every atomic moment.
I once believed in Osho’s Buddhafield dream. I no longer see it as necessary. The seeds were sown in the sands of time and unless I am mistaken I do believe that a flowering is happening all around the world today. Osho left his dream because he could not take it with him. He had his turn and did his crazy dance. It’s your turn now.
Lokesh says // I’ve arrived at these observations through various means and know it as an existential fact that in reality it is all just a play of light and sound. Ouspensky went in search of the miraculous but if he’d changed his perceptions he might have discovered that the miraculous surrrounds us in every atomic moment. //
The whole statement is so mentally constructed, and intellectual with no insight of a meditator. Just read carefully his observations above :
Light and Sound only ??
Sight, Taste, Smell, Touch, Sound ?? So here Lokesh has discovered where Ouspensky failed, to change his perception to see the atomic moment. Sounds like someone who has achieved the intellectual bullshit he always perceives in others.
Lokesh says : // What is interesting about Dhyanrage’s comment is that he doesn’t stop for a moment to contemplate that everything he describes might just be a projection of his inner workings. //
And Lokesh are you out of these projections ?? Only Dhyanraj is in projections here ?? Makes you feel special to teach and judge others ??
Agreeing with Lokeshji (again!).
Wake up and smell the coffee at the nirvana cafe.
One being, being me and you.
Now pass me those ‘various means’.
There never used to be so many squares on the sannyasin scene. When I watched vids of the ranch I saw more and more arriving every day. Squares. Good expression. A quote from Professor Byrds would seem appropriate.
‘All my two-dimensional boundaries were gone,
I had lost to them badly,
I saw that world crumble and thought I was dead,
But I found my senses still working.’
That is a good point to know Punaj ji was eating Pan.
My respect has got a new dimension.
I think in the future, those people will also illuminate inner light, Who eat all kind of meat.
Yes..Spirituality is not the monoply of Vegetarians!
an enlightened person is not attached to physical body if you cut him alive into pieces he can laugh what to say about smell allergies or cancer etc. it is all Leela(play) for different reasons out of compassion which is beyond the capacity of human mind to grasp.
“…if you cut him alive into pieces he can laugh…”
Well, that I wouldn’t be so certain about. The body would surely feel pain if tortured.
As for “what to say about smell allergies or cancer etc. it is all Leela (play) for different reasons out of compassion which is beyond the capacity of human mind to grasp.”
I honestly doubt if there are any mysterious, mystically unfathomable reasons for any such afflictions, they’re simply what our bodies are subject to in this imperfect existence, whether they carry an enlightened consciousness, ‘ordinary’ person or a mass murderer.
there are so many examples of mansoor, jesus, sikh gurus and their disciples remaining calm and cool when brutally tortured, kashi naresh’s appendix operation without anesthesia, raman maharshi’s surgory, but one can always doubt because it is not our experience and masters like osho put themselves equal to us so that we do not feel far away from them, for some of us it may prove discouraging. They pretend to be ordinary. To me it was a great surprise that how he was able to survive so long physically, criticising Ram and Gandhi and criminal politicians in India and then being a foreigner non-christian and criticising Jesus, pope and president of america and being alive for so many years. Moreover, he himself predicted in his earlier discourses in India that he will be killed if he goes to America. But then he chose to be killed by American politicians for the reasons best known to himself only. But your doubt is natural and sincere and he also does not want us to believe. If he reads it he will surely prove me an absolute fool and give me a good kick but I will kiss his feet.
Organisations and individuals with no future talk about the golden past as if it is present.
Six seven wise men with white hair or no hair on their head are trying desperately to convince one Mini, how wrong she is!
It shows, freedom of choice is just a cliché, village elders want to marry according to their criteria.
What does it matter if you don´t quote from this or that book but Gurdjieff!
Keep to the point, Shantam.
You say, “It shows, freedom of choice is just a cliché,”
It shows nothing of the sort, this is a debate about a specific matter.
The root issue under discussion here concerns expectations of how the enlightened ‘should or should not be’.
Or are you another unable to renounce your precious rose-coloured specs? Or simply too lazy to bother working out what’s actually being discussed?
One of Maharaj`s very first disciples told me the story about the time when Papaji,or (dirty)Hari,as he was known then, went down the Bombay red-light area with the Bedibaba the night after Bedis` wifes funeral.
They sank quite a few glasses of bhang lassi mixed with Old Monk Rum on the way, then got busy .
On the next morning,when the madame of the brothel approached them and asked: “whos paying?” Maharaj,expressing his true nature as a Jnani replied : “nobody is paying” and both they skipped out of the place like greased lightning.
On the way home,Papaji had a twinge of guilt and asked Maharaj if their actions had not been against enlightenment.
Maharaj replied that there was nobody to feel guilty and that it was the ultimate medicine,and continued: “I don’t know about spiritual enlightenment,but my balls feel about 5 kilos lighter.”
They both laughed raucously,like only true Buddhas can, laugh and headed on down to Rashid`s opium den to stack a few pipes.
….anyway,on the way home from the opium den,Maharaj and Hari were absolutely jnackered, so they dropped off for a shake at Dipti`s milk bar.
“Who`s that weird looking baldguy at the bar with the long hair chatting up the hippies ?”asked Hari
“just another small town guy come to the big city with a big time dream…wants to be a world teacher,the burnin` ghats are full of `em…”
replied Maharaj as he took a long thoughtless drag on his ganja-stuffed Ganesh beedi
“acha”replied Hari
“no need to to worry about him,he`s no competition”continued Maharaj “saw him down Dodgy Deepak the Doctors` place the other day getting a scrip for some phenobarbs.He wont last long on that stuff”
“what about that other guy we saw down the red light?what was his name? Ballsache,or something?”enquired Hari
“oh,him?ha,he says hes totally enlightened,but he looks like a total banker,to me”opined Maharaj
“lets have another bhang lassi,”said Hari,what did that Zen master say?when I`m hungry,i eat,when I`m thirsty I drink.?
“you`re definitely getting the hand of this non-duality lark,my bhai”replied Maharaj
indulgently.Hey,waiter,two more bhang lassis and a plate of pakora over here,jeldi!jeldi! everything seems to take eternity round here…”
AY, that’s the right stuff.
Masterpiece, my dear, masterpiece.
Cheers
Heres some promo for the amazing new book: “I Was That” by Doctor “Dodgy” Deepak Badmash,the self-style chief disciple and fixer to the leading lights of the original advaita scene:
Its a hard-hitting autobiographical work that blows the lid off the non-dual scene, as seen by the man who saw what went on behind the scenes of the legendary slumdog enlightened ones.
Find out the truth about dirty Haris` 2 kilo a day pan habit,and his lesser known life as a cricket hooligan and leader of the feared lucknow headhunters gang and how a backstreet nobody born on the wrong side of the railway tracks rose from obscurity becoming the daddyji of a global outfit.
Discover what really went on at those wild cross-dressing “Krishna” parties that Hari and his cronies got up to in the name of god between test matches.
Get the lowdown on banker Ram,who,through intense meditation,morphed from being just another banker banking away in his offices to earning the moniker “Rambone Ballsache” on account of his legendary exploits in the Bombay redlight area.
Discover why Ramana really wore those oversized pants and how they turned up years later in a fridge freezer in suburban Philadelphia.
Discover the astounding links between the advaita scene and the Bombay underworld and how the gangsters laundered the money whilst the gurus laundered their souls and why Meher Baba really had to go into silence…….
“A gripping rollercoater ride through the tobacco shops, opium dens, whorehouses,milk bars,bhang shops, ashrams, temples of Bombay in a no-holds-barred search for the `ultimate medicine`..”
—-Enlightenment News
Onandon Anand…neti neti…naughty naughty.
Riveting stuff! This is advaitagate! The lowdown on Papajiggyjiggyji et al. No wonder you had to change your identity, in case ultimate reality fingers you with a fatwa contract. But where can you hide?
Missed this one AY. Absolute cracker!
Anand yogi…
Lovely post and whether its true or not it has the ring of truth and fun about it… by shoving the seekers halo back up where it belongs….
thank f**k for a reality that keeps us spinning, even energy darshan style…
Paantastic….
Remembering the happy daze of the neti neti boys, Nicotinadatta and Paanaji…
As far as having an enlightened super nose, Maharaj would have laughed. He lived in a fragrant bombay back alley and sold and smoked ciggies which naturally led to cancer.
While sitting on an antelope skin he said…
“All my working life I was a cigarette-maker, helping people to spoil their health. And in front of my door the municipality has put up a public lavatory, spoiling my health.”
Shit happens….apparently.
meanwhile down in Mexico…
Brian : the unconscious masses will always crucify the buddhas and the dog pack will always attack the innocent outsider…
baboons,therapriests and ex-sannyasins are destroying oshos vision..
Bryanraj : yes,the unconscious masses will always crucify the buddhas and the dog pack will always attack the innocent outsider .baboons,therapriests and ex-sannyasins are destroying oshos vision
Mini Brian: perfectly good observation,Cloneraj,the unconscious masses will always crucify the buddhas and the dog pack will always attack the innocent outsider,baboons,therapriests and ex-sannyasins are destroying oshos vision and all the other buddhas have fallen below their dignity with their judgments and opinions and they talk ignorantly about imitators and copycats….
Bryanraj: hahahahahahaha
they do not even understand the smell of enlightenment that I can smell right here,right now…
Brian : yes,those re-fried beans were excellent, a little undercooked,like my disciples,the work is still in process,but what to do?the compassion of the Buddha has a unique the fragrance such that the is such that when the Buddha drops one it is the drop that becomes the ocean and the disciples must let go completely and imbibe the ocean to the full….
DroneRaj: (takes deep breath)ah,yes.the smell of enlightenment.what a blessing it is to get it for free,not like those baboons ex-sannyasins and therapriests who are all part of the unconscious masses.
Mini Brian: that is a perfectly correct observation Cloneraj we are free,not like the baboons, therapriests and unconscious masses.
Brian: yes,the therapriests and unconscious masses are exploiting the innocent sannyasins
Cloneraj: its true,the therapriests and unconscious masses are exploiting the innocent sannyasins
Mini Brian: perfectly clear understanding, Droneraj,the therapriests really are exploiting the innocent sannyasins.
Brian: what you are learning here is that you are all individuals
BryanRaj: yes,we are all individuals…
Mini Brian: perfectly clear observation Cloneraj,we are all individuals…..
head guru loco lokeshji – “brian, dhyanrage and mini are parrots and have no mind of their own
guru doh mind eek ji – you are right lokeshji – mini mart, and diane rage are funny parrots parrotting that parrot brian
legal councel truth divide ji – i agree mini k and dhyanrage are parrots – and they have no evidence to say they are not parrots
guru boo boo ji – its true – brian, brianraj, mini brian and droneraj are all parrots and here is a funny little story to prove it
(sound of clapping in the auditorium – droneraj and mini brian faint exhausted from the stress of the IT clubs attack on them – loco, doh, divvy and boo dance in triumph over their prone bodies shouting ” we are the champions”)
Only losers win in this game.
swami satyam dhyanraj said:
>>obviously anubodh you have no clue as to what those zen people meant by “the smell of enlightenment”
to say it is “apparently an unpleasant odour” is proof of your total ignorance and of a desire to wag your mind to seek approval from the dog pack barking at the outsider<<
In swami satyam dhyanraj judgement I have "proved my total ignorance"
That's interesting.
Let's get back to the thread topic of Darshans and put that statement to the test.
I had left Poona before the energy Darshans began, so I never had the opportunity to pretentiously flaunt myself in front of Osho.
I can only speak about my last Darshan in which Osho's final words to me were "go help my people"
Did he ever say that to you DR?
Or to swami R?
So tell me DR, why would Osho put his trust in somebody who you judge to be ignorant?
Are you saying that you know better then Osho?
That your insights are more profound then his?
That your gargantuan ego knows best?
Are you saying that the 'infallible' Osho has made a mistake?
You have passed judgement on me and my desire,
so let me now pass judgement on you and yours.
Anybody who buys into the swami R dream would have accepted the "there is to be a lineage" claim.
We know that swami R has had health issues recently (I hope he has made a full recovery.)
But what happens if the toll that 'enlightenment' has taken on his body proves too much and he departs this world sooner than expected?
Who is there to step forward and carry the flame?
Do you have any idea swami satyam dhyanraj? (aka swami button up your shirt)
There must be somebody on the radar.
Has anyone been spotted in Mexico copying swami R?
I suspect the rampaging around SN DR has been doing is to demonstrate to himself and others his credentials for the 'top job' when that becomes available.
Effectively he has been cocking his leg and marking out his territory at every opportunity.
He seems to relish taking on the 'dog pack' so what chance will young naive Eastern Europeans have against his bullying intimidating style?
Do you have the courage to reply and say whether Osho was wrong to say those words to me?
Or will you just quietly 'button up your mouth'
osho respected you, trusted you, and asked you to help his people as you were leaving –
are you helping oshos people by telling them the lie that the smell of enlightenment is apparently an unpleasant odour anubodh ? –
this statement of yours shows an ugly disrespect of osho your master – and a silly attempt to mislead his people rather than help them
Don’t know about “the smell of enlightenment”, but your posts here often leave another sort of “unpleasant odour”, PC Raj…
Still, I suppose these days there’s plenty of scope for an ambitious old ‘no mind’ like yourself to make a play for the top spot in the Sannyas Police.
Let us know, please, if you’d rather be called Superintendent Raj (or just ‘Super Raj’, or even ‘Super’, for short. You know, to add an, er, ‘informal’ touch…I imagine most of us ignoramuses would prefer to keep in the Sannyas Law’s good books, if at all possible).
Ok DR lets try it this way:
Let me quickly google ‘Apparently’
“Used by speakers or writers to avoid committing themselves to the truth of what they are saying”
You have become very ‘trigger-happy’ DR. Shooting the messenger at every opportunity has become a sport for you.
You have a very ominous way of trying to manipulate people with guilt.
I see you practising and honing that skill for the day when you are finally sitting on the throne yourself.
Will the word ‘NO’ be ruthlessly expunged from the vocabulary of naive young followers?
Will the accusation of ‘disrespect to the master’ (you) be used to control?
I think that it is best that you leave me to worry about my relationship with Osho. Is that OK?
http://www.ptmistlberger.com/the-ten-bulls-of-zen.php
8. Both Bull and Self Transcended (or Forgotten)
“The eight stage is a deepening and maturing of the seventh stage; here, all vestiges of what Chogyam Trungpa called ‘spiritual materialism’, or what Zen calls the ‘awful smell of enlightenment”
Will you post an apology for calling me ‘ignorant’ swami satyam dhyanraj?
Let’s see how much respect you have.
Respect? That’s a good one. Poor Dhyanrage doesn’t even respect himself, so how will he be able to extend such a courtesy to another? How could anyone feel respect for themselves after posting so much nastily, guilt-riddled, humourless, fanatical and aggressive comments on a public website, dedicated to a man who enjoyed to see people meditate, dance, laugh and love each other? I’m afraid asking for respect from such a confused individual as Dhyanrage is asking too much.
hypocritical nastiness from guru locoji – who now pretends to be with osho – and shows his disrespect for him by telling us earlier osho was a windbag – just the latest in a long history of his abuses of osho – and demonstrates a complete lack of respect himself for sannyasins in his many comments on this thread putting them down
DR, I may be wrong, but my sense is that Lokesh disrespects you, rather than Osho.
As I’ve indicated before, you’re actually ‘wired’ to look for insults to Osho and often enough find them where none are intended.
That’s what your brand of priestly fundamentalism does, it significantly reduces the perpetrator’s discrimination, undermining his/her intelligence.
Which, of course, might well be why Lokesh or anyone else here isn’t that impressed by many of your comments.
So, as I’ve mentioned before, if you’re trying to ‘win friends and influence people’, to convince others of the rightness of your cause(s), you’re going about it the wrong way – because the ‘message’ emanating from most of your posts is that there’s something unbalanced, something one might even term ‘repellent’ in your psyche. As the old saying goes, ‘It ain’t what you say, it’s the way that you say it’.
look again satyadeva – lokesh has been commenting to demean osho long before i began commenting here – that he also disrespects me is no problem
yes satyadeva – i am mad no doubt about it – unbalanced – repellant – you are right about that – i dont expect to win friends and influence people neither do i try to – i simply hammer on lies and speak my truth in its raw form without a mask of diplomacy
But you – most conveniently for your fundamentalist agenda – choose to ignore evidence to the contrary, of which there’s plenty in this case, Lokesh often having made it clear how much he feels he owes to Osho.
People like yourself, with a ‘position’ to propagate and to defend, are invariably very uncomfortable with anything that might undermine what might be called their ideological stance on an issue or about a particular person. Their ability to tolerate ambiguity, ‘shades of grey’ in any debate tends to be minimal.
Like you, they consider their particular outspoken style of speaking their “truth in its raw form” admirable, something to be proud of. Whereas in fact it’s very often the mark of a lack of intelligence, which, from the evidence of many (but not all) of your posts, appears to be true in your case, DR.
These posts resemble those of any more or less brain-dead, know-it-all, fundamentalist bore, ‘sheikhing’ with rage much of the time – and often getting it hopelessly and laughably wrong…
If that’s your “truth in its raw form” then you’re sadly deluded. And the views thus expressed are to be regarded as highly suspect.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha – how “balanced” you are in your opinions eh satyadeva – of course i lack intelligence – i am so stupid i became a disciple of osho rather than wasting my time proving to the world how clever i am
Another example of a thoroughly stupid, pointless post.
As usual, when lost, you fail to address the issues, falling back on your familiar resources: pseudo-laughter and a patently spurious self-claimed superiority.
Lack of intelligence rearing its head yet again.
the issues satyadeva ? what issues ? – talking opinionated rubbish about someone as you and locoji are doing is issues ?
You can’t even be bothered to recognise or look for the issues.
Or is this the chronic blindness of the fundamentalist missionary again?
If you’re so lazy or obtuse then I’m certainly not going to assist you.
Dhyanrage is certainly good at giving us a living definition of selfrighteousness incarnate. Does he have the word conceited tattoed or branded on his forehead?
Words definitely have power. I reckon the man is doing himself serious damage with all this nasty broadcasting he does. How could Swami rajneesh, who claims to be enlightened, condone one of his disciples displaying such undesirable human chareacteristics on a public website? Beats me. I’ve said it before, I know, but just for any new readers. Dhyanrage is the worst possible kind of example one could imagine in terms of human development.
(ED: THE REST OF THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED).
Still, I suppose at least we’re getting a close-up view of a particularly nauseating character/personality type, an insight into how such people function, how uninterested they are in discussion, beyond expounding on how ‘right’ they are and how ‘wrong’ everyone else is.
A sort of epitome of self-righteousness and a truly terrible advert for what I will pretentiously term ‘contemporary spirituality’.
A warning to all of the dangers of such righteous fanaticism, of how ‘religion’ can attract and foster a certain type of mentality, of the connection between a type of smug fundamentalism – even, ostensibly, of the Osho variety – and a sort of fascism.
And how its exponents are, shall we say, none too bright.
Dhyanrage, who are Osho’s people exactly? What sort of actions do they participate in that makes them his people? And while we are at it, when does one move from being one of his people to not being one of his people? I ask you, Dhyanrage, because you claim to have knowledge of such important matters, whilst I do not. Please enlightenment me and the other more ignorant members of our little online community here at SN.
oshos people know who they are – it has nothing to do with actions – but with an inner connection to his energy vibration –
you ask lokesh “when does one move from being one of his people to not being one of his people?”
never lokesh – its a timeless love affair
in some perhaps the connection can be broken, i do not know
in many there never was a connection although those people may have taken sannyas and thought themselves sannyasins and hung around osho for many years -
egocentric people who were not interested in opening the heart and dissolving into the master – who were there for reasons of their own
Dhyanraj, to hear you speaking about opening the heart is a joke. In my opinion you are a nasty and confused piece of work., Some time back Parmartha commented that having met us both he thought we would probably get along. I like Parmartha from what little I know of him but in this case he definitely made a severe error in judgement. Dhyanraj you basically stand for many things I have no time for, which would be okay if you had at least developed a sense of humor but all you seem intent on is developing your already well-developed nasty streak. A plague upon your ignorance.
that you have no time for things i stand for is irrelevent locoji – do you imagine you are the only person in the world and that your opinions mean something just because you are clever enough to dominate this little fishtank here ?
whats funny is observing the opinionated and nasty comments that you yourself regularly come up with – osho was a windbag? you are the windabag guru locoji (ED: THE REST OF THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED)
Perfect transcript of copy pirate brian blackbeard and his parrots,
in echochamber meeting.
How does yogi do it? Black magic?
Disgraceful punditry? Oh yes, Acapulco gold.
Just to get things vaguely back on topic.
It’s interesting to note that there is something Zen calls “The smell of enlightenment”
Apparently an unpleasant odour that can take many years to fade.
As the prevailing wind seems to be blowing from Swami R and his followers towards SN let me try and clear the air a little and calm everybody down.
BV recently posted this nice link to a video:
http://telly.com/OshoVideo#!OEAXA
swami satyam dhyanraj commented:
“great video – i haven’t seen these clips before”
He is absolutely correct especially @1.10 where Osho is gently having his beard combed.
So tell us DR does Mini Kang comb your beard or do you comb hers?
obviously anubodh you have no clue as to what those zen people meant by “the smell of enlightenment” –
to say it is “apparently an unpleasant odour” is proof of your total ignorance and of a desire to wag your mind to seek approval from the dog pack barking at the outsider
Now mini says she’s been around swami R for eight yrs, while DR says, “having lived with him the last eight years”, which gives a different impression.
So the obvious question is…. Are they/have they been giving each other up close and personal sniff tests on a regular basis, if you catch my drift?
What is the nature of their relationship?
Does it matter? Well, perhaps it would be an ‘ah ha’ moment and a disclosure of interest, if it’s the case. Seems fair, no?
Shanty paants are you having a paanic attack, making a paanto out of paantheism or a paandit paandering to Paangaji?
Paan is also an aphrodisiac.
Papaji sired a child in his 60s, while still married, with a belgian blonde (not beer) who was 20. He was no saint either.
Just saying…..
In 1999 they still did the sniff tests before the white robe (my partner tells me)and at that time I am sure Osho already didn’t’ have any allergies …
Lokesh and co. and Min and company are fighting an ideological battle like trade unionists of a company, who recently applied for bankruptcy!
And what they write is almost as useless as one hears few Nigers speaking loudly in the tube. You understand only one thing, they were speaking in English.
Yes, you’re right really, Shantam. It’s clear that DR and mini k are rarely interested in rational discussion, the vast majority of their posts are basically propaganda serving a particular agenda, including attacks on anyone deemed to be an ‘enemy’. When cornered they simply won’t admit they’re wrong, often declaring the issue to be ‘unimportant’ anyway.
Pointless to engage with them in fact, as they’re on their course and the rest here are on theirs, usually a very individual one. I doubt if anyone actually cares what they’re up to in their lives, but their brand of what one might term ‘righteous fundamentalism’ (aka ‘the missionary position’) where only they know the ‘correct’ path deserves to be exposed and ridiculed. Not that that will change them one iota, they’re far too far gone.
Personally, I’m sick of both of them.
At any cost, I want to be winner, even if rules of the game are, losers win in this game!
With borrowed words one is neither loser nor winner, just a paper collector.
OSHO DARSHANS-
Is it possible to transmit the taste of wonder to the present or future or it was a one generation charm?
“apparently” anubodh you wish to avoid committing yourself to the truth of what you are saying
why be a scholar of zen bulls ? if you dont know and cannot say the truth then what is wrong in knowing you are ignorant ?-
the quotation that you refer to in your scholarly no. 8 zen bull link – you have cut the last sentence to suit yourself – it reads – “the “awful smell of enlightenment, the subtle self-consciousness of ‘being awake’—‘I am a Buddha’’
it is a far cry from your mutation into ” the smell of enlightenment is apparently an unpleasant odour” isnt it anubodh – a completely different meaning –
i took it as a public insult to our master osho and all the enlightened ones – and you went on to insult mini saying will i comb her beard – if you like to dish up insults why be insulted yourself and react so strongly when i truthfully say you are ignorant of enlightenment
yes anubodh – you worry about your relationship with osho why would i worry about it ?
and neither need you worry about my imaginary throne and imaginary naive young followers under my control – ha ha ha ha ha – now that proves your ignorance beyond any doubt
I’m going to try and make this as simple as possible for you to understand DR.
My quote was from a hardback book I had read many years ago.
I gave you the full link to the closest I could find (which you doubted existed.)
I do apologise to Mini. I was just wondering if her beard was long enough to tuck into her knickers.
And I got the idea of insulting people on SN from you.
Happy now.
SAA explains, ‘I’m going to try and make this as simple as possible for you to understand DR.’
Waste of time, because DR does not want to understand certain things, no matter how simply they are put to him. The poor fellow is as mixed-up as the twenty-first century and everything he says is so contradictory he even manages to leave Osho in the shade, as he zooms faster than a speeding bigot on his race to arrive…well, nobody knows where, least of all him. Take his following statement: ‘i took it as a public insult to our master osho’.
This is so patently absurd. The man has not even understood basic sannyas training, ie. one can’t feel insulted unless there is a desire in you to feel that. Yet he feels insulted by comments directed at Osho. Its a bad joke, taking in to consderation the fact that Osho took pleasure in insulting many revered personages.
Bhagwan did ask me to help his people.
I can only try.
SAA, I’m sure you are, but Osho’s ashes must surely be spinning in their samadhi at the thought of what kind of people are claiming to be his people today.