Gurdjieff’s Commune and the Ranch?

 Le Chateau de Prieure des Basses Loges

 This was a medieval hospital, and later monk’s priory which patrons of Gurdjieff bought in 1923.  Oddly enough the largest financial patron of Gurdjieff  in the interwar period was Lady Rothermore who met him through Ouspensky, perhaps explaining why he could manage such a purchase.  (There is an essay somewhere for someone about how the very rich have supported teachers through history. For example Osho and Greek Mukta who was I believe the daughter of a Greek shipping magnate).

 Some writers have compared Gurdjieff’s twenties commune with Osho’s experiment in Rajneeshpuram. Especially it’s emphasis on non intellectual work which in their interpretation explains why Osho choose not to speak between 1981 and 1984. Some even claim that Osho modeled the Ranch on the Priory.

One major dissimilarity however has been missed. Gurdjieff (G) was both the spiritual  AND administrative head of the work there. No delegation to anyone like Sheela and her associates for the latter. Hence the work there was curtailed not by the collapse, crimes and paranoia of the administrators, but by choice and followed G’s major road accident 2 years into the work. The commune there continued for some years, but it is clear that G withdrew from that work after the accident, and decided to write his mainly incomprehensible ‘magnus opus’ “Belzebub’s tales to his Grandson” from there on in.

However the “taking on of the intellect” does seem to be a major similarity. Those intellectuals drawn to G’s work were not dissimilar to those drawn to Osho’s in their responses.  Ouspensky lasted a very short time, returned to London and taught in the name of G.  However he was denounced by G, as not being ready to be a teacher. A parallel would be Teertha and Somendra in Osho’s work.

There were of course intellectuals of a different mien – like A..R. Orage whose grave I sometimes visit in a remote Hampstead churchyard, and sit for a while. He was a leading UK intellectual figure of the day. One day in 1923 on hearing he was leaving his job as Editor of the then famous literary magazine “The New Age”, his Secretary asked, “where and why are you going?”. He answered “I am going to the Prieure to find God”

G set Orage’s surrender to the test immediately, and got him digging holes all day and filling them in.  Within a few days he was crying at the end of the day, but ignored. But he continued. After 10 days, close to giving up, he made one more exhausting effort. That day something “happened” according to Orage’s self report, and to his surprise G was there immediately in person.  This has been described as Orage “connecting” to his body for the first time since he was a child.

 Orage was taken off the digging detail immediately and became one of G’s most diligent emissaries for some years.  However his discipleship also ended in a way reminiscent of some Osho disciples – he left his Master for a young woman and lived within the protection of a domestic round for the larger part of his later life….  Of course if gender were reversed it could have been for an older man – or a younger!

How see you this comparing of the Ranch and the Prieure, SN bloggers?

 Parmartha

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156 Responses to Gurdjieff’s Commune and the Ranch?

  1. Lokesh says:

    If a parallel between a teacher and Osho needs to be drawn it would definitely have to be Mr G. G’s work was in many ways esoteric Christianity and there was not much of that around Osho. Osho was like a sponge when it came to taking other teachers’ work and integrating it into his own. It was really a sign of his brilliance how he was able to do that. In the beginning everyone pretty much thought it was original. The turning point was when therapy groups became part of ashram life and Osho could no longer take full credit for his ideas. He could take credit for the unique way he coupled eastern mysticism with western psychology.

    I can remember spending 24 hours scrubbing a flight of stairs in the ashram with a toothbrush on a very hot day circa 1977 and cursing MR G for having involuntarilly lent his ego-busting techniques to Osho. I stuck it out for my own reasons but could not accredit such an absurd exercise to any kind of spiritual awakening other than learning that I detested the ridiculousness of it all. When Osho authored The Supreme Understanding many sannyasins were influenced by the idea of manual labour in the ashram as being the true path. Whether it was or was not is now, in retrospect, irrelevant because what really mattered was that things got done on a monumental scale with little in the way of complaining.

    I’d say the same must have applied to the ranch on an even greater scale. Osho created a willing colony of worker ants to build the ranch for free, probably some even paid to participate. Now, in terms of creativity that is pretty smart. Pity about it all going pear-shaped but such was life with Osho and it’s history now. So, yes, there are many comparisons that can be drawn between Osho and Mr G. Then again, if one cares to read The Supreme Understanding one could also draw comparisons with Osho and the great tantric masters, who set impossible tasks for star disciples and created enlightened people in their own right. Whether anyone actually became enlightened as a direct result of their contact with Osho is, of course, up for debate. One thing is for sure though; he sure left us with plenty to discuss.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      >> He could take credit for the unique way he coupled eastern mysticism with western psychology.

      Yes but the coupling was on the practical rather than the intellectual level. He didn’t seem to have any respect for the growth enterprise and hardly spoke on the subject. It looked like it was something that some had to go through before they got on the ladder and it was a nice little (read, big) earner too.

      >> I believe there is a point in your life where it is important to begin stating what you believe to be true without the need of backup from an authority, without a referance point,

      I have absolutely no original knowledge. Amongst the ignorant I can sound knowledgeable but it is all borrowed knowledge. When I first took sannyas I used to quote Crowley and people thought I was quoting Bhagwan. My buzz was (and is) to trace back knowledge to it’s original source. I have never used Osho for information only as an inspiration. He is a terrible when it comes to accuracy but I feel he is capable of inspiring ppl for a long time to come.
      **
      I was away ahead of you guys. It was in the early ‘70s when I found out I had to concentrate either on Mr G or Mr A (Crowley). Even tho G was half greek, Crowley was more fun, more books, just more. Also I didn’t like all that ‘work’ stuff. So by the time came across Osho in late ‘83, I could see that (rightly or wrongly) he was operating on the G ‘work’ principle, so I knew where to file it.

      Just from hearsay I had the impression that R’puram had roots in Henlein’s ‘Stranger in a strange land’ and Leary’s Millbrook … but with quick googling one can see that the vibe for communes was very much in the air at the time …
      http://www.thefarm.org/lifestyle/root1.html

      By listening to Osho in the period between the Ranch and Pune2 … I got the feeling that his attitude for the city was, of something that the sannyasins were building for themselves and he was helping them with it in every way he could (often breaking silence to get more money). I have no idea what the builders thought they were doing, but my feeling is that they just wanted to be around him. Looking back, all it was, was a constant preparation for the next festival and very little ‘living’ was actually being done.

      These days with lots of hindsight and the ability to birdview the situation like never before it is easy to see that there was a disconnect between him and the people around him. He was very disappointed by all of us. But that is what happens when you pick builders instead of intellectuals.

      • Lokesh says:

        BV states that Osho was ‘ often breaking silence to get more money.
        The way I heard it Osho’s silence only extended as far as the public arena and he spent more money than he made. This need to make Osho look like some saint breaking his valuable silence to help his disciples is a load of bollocks. Osho was watching a lot of movies during that time, ordering the latest bells and whistles for her rapidly growing fleet of rollers, getting high on gas, lusting after the world’s most expensive time pieces and throwing shoes at Vivek. Sounds like fun to me.

        • bodhi vartan says:

          All those pastimes might sound like a lot, but they are within a very narrow frame … just play along with me for a mo … imagine what you would have been doing and how you would have spent those figures … too see what I am getting at.

          Yes he was spending more than he was earning but so do most ordinary ppl. He did say he was ordinary …

          • dominic says:

            Ooh yeah, 100 rollers and gimmee more. That’s sooo ordinary.
            You’re joking right? De Nile is not just a river in egypt.

            • bodhi vartan says:

              I didn’t say ‘ordinary’, my words were ‘narrow frame’ meaning, useless and pointless, and not in the way that a very wealthy man would spend that kind of money.

  2. shantam prem says:

    Whether anyone actually became enlightened as a direct result of their contact with Osho is, of course, up for debate.
    Lokesh, can you say with the same breath, whether any one became enlightened as a direct result of their contact with Punja Ji.
    In the west, at certain time, his disciples created a kind of monopoly in Satsang industry.

    Why not we should treat enlightenment also as bulbs. After a certain while all get fused!

    • dominic says:

      Nice turn of phrase shants.
      How many Satsang teachers to then change the fused lightbulb?
      “None, it’s all just perfect, sitting here in the dark.”
      Or “Who wants to know?”
      Or “There’s only one.”
      Or “There is no lightbulb.”
      Or “How many can you afford?”
      Or “Sorry, we don’t do manual work.”
      Or “Worship the socket.”
      Yada yada…

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Shantam I already told you, every sannyasin is enlightened. Why can’t you just accept it? Treat every sannyasin as enlightened (unless they prove otherwise) and see what happens.

  3. Lokesh says:

    Shantam asks, ‘Lokesh, can you say with the same breath, whether any one became enlightened as a direct result of their contact with Punja Ji.’
    Hard to say, Shantam. One of my old chums from Poona One, Vasant, who was a samurai, has gathered quite a big following in his homeland, Norway. I watched a couple of vids of Vasant in action(crazy wisdom kind of zen trip) and it left me chuckling and scratching my head in puzzlement. Vasant was always extreme in his search for truth and spent time with Poonjaji. There are a few others.
    Papaji was similar to Osho in the early days, in the sense that he raised a banner and those attracted gathered round. I met many enlightened people during my six weeks in Lucknow, meaning they were just marvelous to hang out with, whether they were self-realized or not is another question. Now that you make me think about it I don’t really see enlightenment as a fixed static state…once there that is it…but rather a fluid state. It is possible that Osho attained some kind of enlightened state, lost it and then regained it. Who am I to speculate on such matters? I’m definitely not enlightened so how would I know?
    When I left Lucknow I felt my process in regards Poojaji was complete…the rest was up to me sort of scenario. I was given the best tools and I’m still chipping away trying to make my masterpiece. One thing I carried for some months as a result of spending time with Poonjaji was that I really had the understanding that there is no need to be concerned with the big stuff, like enlightenment, if it happens it happens suddenly and when the time is right.
    I recently had a visit from a friend and his family. I spent a beautiful week. Both he and his wife spent years with Poonjai, living in his house etc. She is a charming woman and he is a pretty enlightened guy. I noticed that my other friends noticed something a bit special about him. He goes about his life very quietly and minds his own busness, yet everyone he meets just really digs him. He is one of a handful of people I know that I can spend days on end with and feel right at home, with never a strange vibe. Yes, quite a special chap, enlightened even.
    Ultimately it all boils down to how one defines enlightenment.

    • Kavita says:

      Lokesh says : ‘ Now that you make me think about it I don’t really see enlightenment as a fixed static state…once there that is it…but rather a fluid state. ‘ – I / mostly all sanyassins remember Osho saying ‘ either one is or one is not , there cant be temporary enlightenment ‘ , I dont remember the title of the series & number of the discourse .

      ‘Ultimately it all boils down to how one defines enlightenment.’ I think this is more of an enlightened disciples statement , my question is , then why ‘ it ‘ should be denied ,
      a)unless , it is said in utter humbleness not to sound obvious
      b)its too big a burden to bear
      c) is it only very few have existentially the guts to say so
      d) simply for survival . ( which is not so simple )
      e)all of the above in equal proportions .

      • Lokesh says:

        Yes, Kavita, Osho may well have said that. Osho said a lot of things, most of which sounded really good. He can be a great referance point and, as all of us know here on SN, an endless source for backing up points we wish to make. Well and good.
        I believe there is a point in your life where it is important to begin stating what you believe to be true without the need of backup from an authority, without a referance point, regardless of what anyone before you has said. One might interpret what I am saying as… a time comes when its best to grow up.

        • Kavita says:

          Frankly Lokesh, I agree with your ‘ best to grow up ‘
          & think simply for survival . ( which is not so simple ) is what Iam closest to . ‘ Thank you ‘ maybe you might need that for your survival .

          • Lokesh says:

            Kavita, whenever I meet someone and ask them how they are doing and they reply, ‘surviving’ my stock reply to that is ‘that bad, huh?’.
            There are exceptions, of course, people who live in Syria, Somalia, the cancer ward etc. There is something depressing about the idea of survival coming from people who actually have little in the way of real problems in life.

            • Kavita says:

              Good for you Lokesh , thats what you think is depressing , for me its depressing that you think this way , to each their own .

            • bodhi vartan says:

              Lokesh says:
              >> There is something depressing about the idea of survival coming from people who actually have little in the way of real problems in life.

              It reminds me Osho saying to westerners in Pune1 something to the effect that to actually make it (physically and emotionally) to be sitting in front of him meant that you were perfect in every way. The example he used was of the myriads of sperms running towards the egg and the point that “your sperm” won the race.

            • Kavita says:

              No Lokee for me school bell ! u are a post graduate , no bells for u !

  4. prem martyn says:

    Lokesh , you have some marvellous paintings in one of your videos, and its no wonder they bring in a penny or two in your spanish home island. Very nice work there that would be lovely to see more videos of.

    Like you I also live in a very special place, which is heart stoppingly gorgeous, the high swiss alps. I won’t go on about it here, but I could because I feel very lucky to have got here through fate and kindness received.

    Bodhi Vartan says that I’m on the wrong drugs, so I thought I’d better ask you for suggestions, as you would know if anyone does. It’s like this.

    In the search for a greater motley band of co-conspirators, I’ve ended up instead on a swiss mountain range alone with gf. Having partaken in a very limited fashion of the shenanigans of sannyas, by spending all my adult life ‘around’, involved, living with similar folk, I disappeared here. I bypassed normal workaday life quite effectively for about 90 per cent of my adult life. Because it either wasn’t of interest or because I was professionally unskilled, or because I disliked the game and lastly because I was privileged to be lucky, astute and favoured in significant ways.

    I have come to the conclusion that I am only social around one or two people at a time. For the rest I realised that despite the interactions ,I had no sufficient interest in prolonging my sannyas world into my ancient age, even by the time I was 35 I started to be disenchanted with anything remotely spiritual sounding. Which makes me feel very very anti-social. The amount of times I avoided parties when living around Osho centre Lesvos Island (aged 42-48), and stayed home with my 14 cats and gf was innumerable. We lived next door to the olive tree fringed country centre and heard the music, the dancing, the hollering. We avoided them like the plague. I used to put on my own Osho lectures on audio , and sat under our magnificent laden pear tree , in a suspended swing back hammock, and looked out to the horizoned sea ,whilst next door the loonies had to sit bolt upright in concrete floored uncomfortableness and get their spiritual identity fix.

    Mostly we were happy swimming or when the winter came and there was no-one around. People would come round to us for a chat and tea, but that was it. I had no desire and still don’t to dissolve myself into anything remotely of human construct like that. I recently had to care for my swiss girlfriend’s infirm friend and lifetime companion, an alsatian husky cross. I received more contentment from doing that, more joy and more compassion than I have in many or any of my interactions with seekers , finders or weepers in the spiritual world in the last 15 or so years. That’s not to say it doesnt exist , just that I wasn’t interested in their realizations, life story etc and I didn’t want them to be interested in mine. This may well have been a process maturing over time, as years ago I found my interest in animal ethics was bigger than my interest in human dynamics.

    Currently my gf is on networking holiday wih a vegan action group who collaborate to make waves. It’s a very different world to that of personal salvation, with even less chance of success or redemption in the acts.But for me and her, justice is everything. If I could succeed every time I saw an outrageous indignity , in making the world a kinder and more noble place I would be the happiest man alive. Thing is, despite the interminable exchanges on this website, I fully happily realise I’m behind a laptop, and am effectively talking to myself. Which is no wonder I get censored or misunderstood, because the main person that I enjoy a thrilling laugh from is myself when I write in that mode.Of course I’m shaken into the realisation that others read my stuff, if I get a reply, and even more when I’m censored because maybe I’m just boring or possibly libellous or even just bad taste outrageous… because the truth is I couldn’t care less what anyone else thinks does or says in respect of my writing to the point of redundancy. I’m just here experiencing this. Once its written and I’ve had my fun thats it. Any sense of response or reply is so virtual and victim to interpretation, which makes it absurd. Even if another arises, it’s still only me and the cats trying to get into the words. It’s the safest form of monosyllabic exchange I can have, without a bathroom mirror.

    Which brings me to my point… in all these years from Osho to my latest guru Parmartha, the Zen master with a beady eye for libel infringement, was I actually a latent misanthropist? A typical example for me is that of airports. I tend to fly around or at least have done a fair bit these last few years, and the thing is that being surrounded by people with bawling precious ‘our family’ kids and looking like we do, I just wish there was so many fewer of us than there is. Airports do that to me, just like being around Gurus annd the folk, very similar sensations not pleasurable as a way of life.I just don’t like being around other people especially of an ilk. Luckily neither does my current gf. That’s not to say she isn’t loved.Oh no she has lots of friends, although her favourite life is here in the mountains alone. Thing is it doesn’t pay and I’m having to re-enter life and use all my jocular interactive skills for making out that life is amazing and projecting it for false motivations. Generally with very few people it is fun, but the numbers and the behaviours of the mass in any shape or form ,with me in it, … oh purlleeesssse

    Now conversely I see that you are genial, convivial, and enjoy the scene on Ibiza and also that you did like Papaji a fair bit and what he represented, in comapratively improved terms, to what Osho did for you, if one was to rate them in your experience.
    Is there any time in your life when you may have thought libellously about Papaji , rather like Father Jack from Father ted…
    Jest feck off.. feck feck feck feck….feck off…. and had that much fun saying it and meaning it.Because at the end of the day that’s what matters to me, being able to be oneself, ones raucous, devil may care hell for leather life affirming libellous ingrate, whom others love being around, but who doesn’t wish to be around others.

    Because my point is this, I ‘d rather be around people, like in Craggy Island who weren’t being anybody other than themselves without airports, without gurus, without aspect, without anything more than insane playful merriment, and lots of four footed animal friends to boot. My version of reality has been a long time coming, it may never happen.But in the meantime writing on here about its absence is as close to being content with it as I can get, here in the swiss mountain air.

    • Lokesh says:

      Good post, Martyn.
      Last night I went over to Sunset Ashram for a bite and to listen to a pal spin some toons. Quite a nice evening. There was a tech-trance duo playing and they were pretty good. Tables were pushed aside and about a hundred people got on the floor to dance. I’m no great fan of trance but the kids enjoy it more than anything else. I joined in half-heartedly…I like funk, music with a shamanic lyric to raise the spirit and good inspired musicianship to take you out…am I finally old fashioned?
      What was great were some of the people I met….fantastic. And that is just one of the things I find special about Ibiza. I’m always happy to get back to the peace and quiet of home and therefore you could say that I enjoy the best of both worlds.
      You enquire, ‘Is there any time in your life when you may have thought libellously about Papaji , rather like Father Jack from Father ted…’ No. There was not much food for such kind of thoughts around Poonjai. He had a past and it would not have been difficult to dig up something a wee bit scandalous and weave it into suspicion, but I never saw need for that. Papaji was deceptive in the sense that when I met him he sometimes appeared like a bumbbling old geezer but one on one he was a force to be reckoned with. I was more interested in what the man had to teach and he was very good at that. What is also important to note is that without my seven years with Osho there is no doubt I would not have been able to appreciate nearly so much of what Poonjaji had to offer.
      One can’t help but notice all this ignorant shit about ex-sannyasins leaving Osho for Poonjaji…to me this exemplifies degeneration in sannyas mind set. After Osho’s death Poonjaji was a natural progression for many sannyasins who were still not clear where the whole spiritual trip had left them. Poonjaji helped me make sense of it all. Besides, my time with Osho was already over. Not that it was some kind of conscious decision. More like smoking dope….I just grew out of it and moved on to a different period in my life where Osho and sannyas simply faded into a colourful background. This also had to do with some very difficult years in my life, which in order to survive I had to remain rooted firmly in the present, to such an extent that the past became quite blurred and insubstantial. People talk about living in the here and now but I was forced into living in a here and now reality that was terrifying and sometimes longed for the there and then…alas it was no more. I got through it…survived..it really was that bad. Suffering can be our greatest learning tool, but we are all frightened of it. I learned more in four months on a hospital’s critical list than I learned at the feet of any spiritual master…a truely humbling experience and it sure was nice to be able to walk again after being paralysed for some time…its the little things we take for granted that compose the nuts and bolts of life.
      Talking of which, I’m off for a close encounter with the big blue…my meditation.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Martyn, it sounds to me that you don’t have enough ppl to talk to up there in cuckooland … it also sounds like you need more ppl around you than you think you do. You haven’t found the balance yet, are you a Libran?

      • Prem Martyn says:

        It’s not the people , it’s always the mutual vision thing BV. If you can’t get compatibility, one ends up alone or feeling it even in the most populated or work bedevilled environments. Its endemic.The urge for transcendence is that desire to be free of oneself, let alone others. The transcendence happens dependent on the urge for it.Even in the Swiss mountains some people are known to be subjected to experiences they find utterly surprising, without design or expectation. Trust that all is going great, especially the bits one has no handle on, and I^m not about to blog ad infinitum here. I just had a few hilarities to post that started this all. But I try to act normal now for the on topic censor sake otherwise nothing will get through from me. Bless.

  5. Parmartha says:

    The Gurdjieff commune was based on those sort of practices for the two years that he was concentrated there, like the toothbrush treatment that Lokesh was given in Pune one. Physical work was paramout. I think they spent a lot of that time building a giant meeting hall out of an old aircraft hanger working 14 hour days, not dissimilar to our own Ranch work.
    Gurdjieff was reported later in life as being disappointed in the lack of realisation of his close disciples and that might reflect on those methods. One had the feeling he lost interest in those methods after two quite short years. For example he sent Hartmann(the composer) and his wife away citing their lack of progress, even though they had given their lives up in a sense for him.
    I think that there was a confusion around Papaji . Somehow or other he “indicated” to people they could go off and teach, but other people I know who were in Lucknow seem to think he never said this was because they were enlightened, but those assigned that role, like Andrew Cohen, mistook his intent. Oddly enough Andrew has in the last 2 months apologised to his disciples about how he has treated them, presumably under that delusion!
    Around Osho, well I would say that Tyohar and the late Maitreya seem to have or had the “public” credentials of being both teachers and realised. There also may well be, as within the Sufi traditions many who choose not to “declare” their enlightenment or teach. There may also be teachers who are not obviously teachers – also as within Sufism. Cab drivers maybe, care workers, seamstresses, etc.
    I would think that if one becomes realised, then the decision to actually declare and teach is a very big one. For example the Buddha took seven days to decide this according to some scriptures.

    • Lokesh says:

      I’ve met Tyohar socially a couple of times at dinner parties, visited the scene of his commune in Costa Rica and went to three of his satsangs in Amsterdam. He’s a sweet guy. He is about as enlightened as Ram was. One of the satsangs I went to I almost felt embarassed for the guy, some of the responses he gave to people’s questions were terrible. I see him a bit in the same light as Swami Rajneesh in that he is setting up a situation where beginners get a taste of the teacher disciple trip. I am absolutely cool with that and the fact that they encourage people to meditate is all good. The problem arises when people look to them for soul salvation…they simply cannot deliver on that level.
      Maitreya was a different ball game altogether. Like Vasant, who I mentioned earlier, he was an extremist, always had to push the boundaries. I was friends with Maitreya when he was Bashkar and we worked together as individual therapists in Poona One. He was a likeable guy with a mischevious sense of humour. He was involved with Sandarshi for some time, someone I am not at all impressed with..different strokes etc. Bashkar turned into Maitreya after some years of intense meditation. If his books were anything to go by he came across as a little confused. He left one outside of my front door one day with a flower on it. His writing indicated that he was not at all enlightened and very much on a personal vendetta with some people who he obviously felt wronged by etc. Maitreya was embroiled in some sort of scandal, centred around financial matters…..sound familiar? I liked the man and last time I saw him he was definitely emanating a powerful meditative vibe. On the other hand I know from a mutual friend that Maitreya played a couple of numbers on him that were very unenlightened.
      Tyohar and Maitreya, in my opinion don’t rank in the enlightenment stakes. Tell you what though, I’m having dinner tonight with a close friend of Tyohar so I’ll make some enquiries and share them with you if you promise to keep it to yourself…top secret, hush hush sort of thing. Last I heard, Tyohar wanted to concentrate his energies more on the booming real estate business on the Nicoya Peninsula. Smart move if you ask me.

    • honeysucklerose says:

      P: I think you’re oversimplifying your “ranch work” description. The hours of work varied, same with the different types of work that went on. Regarding the hours- in the first few years- say 1981- 1983/early ’84, work was indeed about 14 hours give or take, but then as far as i know Gurdjieff’s place didn’t have a disco that was open from 7pm-11pm for those with the energy to let loose and play. Around 1984 the work load slackened a bit, do to the construction ban imposed by the government that went into effect around that time, i remember during the fall and winter of ’83-’84 the work was almost too much.. so much to build, not enough people to build it all… There were different departments, i knew a few who were pushing keys on a computer keyboard in an office, same with the main ranch building- dozens worked there, all pushing pencils- not swinging hammers or pickaxes, washing dishes, or milking cows, or pulling weeds. Most of the stupidity that went on, were from those pencil pushing ma’s- gone mad out of boredom and laziness. Yeah, you might loosely associate Gurdjieff’s experiment with ours at the ranch, but clearly, there were way too many differences than similarities.

      • Parmartha says:

        Thanks, Hun.
        I was a European commune sannyasin (silver not gold bead!), in Medina, and then in Hamburg. We got to the Ranch for the festivals. By some synchronicity I got a “commune exchange” for being a good worker!, in July, 1985 so was in for the end of the Ranch, etc. However you sound like you were a Ranch resident, so you can speak certainly of the Ranch with more knowledge.
        However I do speak from my own experience. The descriptions of Gurdjieff’s commune, if not exactly the work and amount of time spent on it, did have the same feel to me – solely for the two years that Gurdjieff was actively involved. There were often times in the Osho work/worship that I felt like this is too much, as I was asked to do extra duties over and above my ordinary commune work, like baking bread at 5am, or bartending the bar until 11pm and then cleaning it until midnight, that remind me of the testing of the metal, that I would see Orage going through with the ditches. I also had the impression that work was often “created”, especially on the Ranch, in the way that Gurdjieff disciples record, rather than the work being vital for the commune.
        By the way as a Ranch curio, I helped organise a football match in July, 1983 between Medina and the Ranch in a lunch hour at Rajneeshpruam. Much enjoyed by all, and a good taste of being just ordinary. When we explored repeating the game in July 1984 we were told in no uncertain fashion that Sheela (Osho) did not approve, and that it detracted from our commune worship!

        • bodhi vartan says:

          Parmartha says:
          >> I also had the impression that work was often “created”,

          It was. Because you guys were really hard to crack. As it concerns cult behaviour, Rajneeshees wrote the book. Sometimes we forget that and look for alternate logical (oh he got from Gurdjieff) explanations. Most of ‘the action’ is meant to be illogical and stressful and you need an external constant if you don’t want to get lost in it. The stronger and more intelligent will feel it more, as their ego is fighting back harder. Having done a fair amount of Humaniversity ‘work’ I found the best way to get along is by being a slut, saying yes to everything, and doing one’s own thing anyway. Maybe it wouldn’t have worked on the Ranch but at Medina I was on the night laundry shift and most of the time I was either reading or chatting. I must say that most of the time, in most sannyasin environments I experienced, there were 8 ppl doing the work of 5, but I understand that it wasn’t the same everywhere.

          • honeysucklerose says:

            BV- most of the work at the ranch wasn’t “created”, it was necessary, by that, i don’t mean necessary work to “lose” the ego , but work that needed to be done, as in building homes, roads, dams. Also to grow veggies, milk cows, clean the facilities, maintenance work, up keep of all the machinery, cars, trucks, buses, the plumbing, electrical. Driving buses and trucks; Cooking, baking; keeping the books in order(that’s a laugh), accounting, running the shops(starting about late 1982) discos, clothing boutiques.. Shall i go on? So BV no need to create work to “Crack the ego”, plenty of work was available, not enough americans or legal aliens to do it.

            • bodhi vartan says:

              hsr, I fully accept what you said and you are absolutely correct but I ALSO understand what Parmartha is saying. There are many ALSOs in this game. (More often than not contradictory too.)

              PS What was done with R’puram (considering its position) was nothing short of a miracle. I often daydream what might have happened if we were at a good geographical location and received support instead of opposition…

  6. dominic says:

    It’s ‘george’ slaphead week. But whose is the royal way?
    Surely rotund Mustachio Fez man.
    His writings one baklava short of a greek nosh up.
    Drinking, drugs, sheep’s head dinners, and initiating ladies ‘in the way’.
    Ar-mean what’s not to like?
    It’s ‘the work’ that matters. Hand me a toothbrush and get me to a gulag.
    Crazy wisdom or narcissistic lack of conscience dressed up as philosophy?

    Here’s papaji (who i value) feeling the love…..

    “David: “You used to give experiences to a lot of people. Why did you do it if you knew that the effect would not be permanent?
    Papaji: “I did it to get rid of the leeches who were sticking to me, never allowing me to rest or be by myself. It was a very good way of getting rid of all these leeches in a polite way. I knew that in doing this I was giving lollipops to the ignorant and innocent, but this is what these people wanted.

    ” When asked about those he sent to teach, Papaji said that the purpose was to have them point the way to Lucknow, not to pose as awakened teachers.¨

    [Although giving them the idea that they really got it!]

    David: “Many people have heard you say, ‘I have not given my final teachings to anyone’. What are these final teachings, and why are you not giving them out?”
    Papaji: “Nobody is worthy to receive them. Because it has been my experience that everybody has proved to be arrogant and egotistic… I don’t think anyone is worthy to receive them. You have to prove holiness to be worthy.¨

    Or join the Freemasons….
    Realized or unrealized, same very old authoritarian structures in place, leading to arrogance, corruption, grandiosity etc.

  7. shantam prem says:

    Sannyains talk about enlightenment as if it is the Botox of the soul or who got the breast enhancement treatment, I mean who got two sizes bigger boobs or little brother after intense meditation!
    Should I be an agony aunt and tell, ” Guys and girls it is not the syringe but the medicine inside which matters.”

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam,I don’t know if there is any should in the matter, but it might indicate a turn for the better if you had the decency to acknowledge that I gave a pretty full response to one of your queries, instead of writing your usual banged-out metaphors that don’t deliver much in the way of content other than showing that the reader requires a bit of intelligence to decipher your none too enlightened take on things.

    • Arpana says:

      Shanty Pantzer talks about enlightenment
      as if it is the Botox of the soul or who got
      the breast enhancement treatment,
      I mean who got two sizes bigger boobs or
      little brother after intense meditation!
      Should I be an agony aunt and tell, ”
      Guys and girls it is not the syringe but
      the medicine inside which matters.

      Can always rely on Shantam to demonstrate over and over again the meaning of projection

  8. Lokesh says:

    One of my favorite books is Mr G’s Meetings with Remarkable Men. As for Beelzebub’s Tales, I followed his instructions, also endorssed by Osho, and read the tales three times and found to my dismay that on each reading I came to the same conclussion…tedious, long-wineded writing that could have been condensed into a small paperback and been just as…well,…ehm unenlightening.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      To me G was like Jesus, in that they both needed disciples to explain it all. In themselves, they were a bit rubbish.

      Recently I’ve been bumping into some G ppl and they are all very old with no hope of rejuvenation because (I assume) whatever they are offering has no relevance to today’s reality. I used to get that feeling from Theosophists 20-30 years ago, and where are they now?

      As it happens I still recommend Meetings with Remarkable Men (the film) to newbies who are interested in Osho. It’s (probably) the best spiritual film ever.

      • Kavita says:

        For me this is the Upanishad of this age , in a film format .First time saw it in the Poona commune in 1992 , then copied it from videotron (a video shop) on a video cassette, then a friend gifted me a dvd , now its freely available on the internet , lost count of number of views .


        The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    • dominic says:

      Reading Beelzebabbler three times ???
      Must have been during a lull in meetings with remarkable women.
      Makes Shantam appear lucid. Perhaps we should be reading his posts x3 for the full esoteric meaning.
      ‘Meetings’ is cute but file under fiction with castaneda.
      “Best spiritual film ever” out of…erm…so many?

  9. shantam prem says:

    Sorry lokesh, firstly I should have the decency to acknowledge your response. It was really to the point and very sincere.
    I say thank you now.
    And the satire was not on you but on that vacuum in Osho seekers heart where without any quality control, many readers of Osho simply became enlightened most probably because they have read Osho saying, how easy it is, that it is your birth right, that you are all Buddhas!

    I have many friends affiliated with different religious sects cults and groups and none of them bothers who among them have opened their independent branch of fashion!

    • Lokesh says:

      Thanks, Shantam, appreciated. As for your ‘satire’ I did not take it at all personally. How could I? Way too deep for me, baba. Glug! Glug!

  10. Fresch says:

    Parmartha, i knew it. How phony can you get? Happy to see this.

  11. sannyasnews says:

    SN again remind posters that we are interested in posts that are on topic, and not abusive. Sometimes quite good posts get rejected because they are not on topic. If you want a new topic aired just write to us with a top of string stimulus and chances are we will publish it.
    Because of day jobs, etc we dont always have the time to keep very strictly to our policies, but we would ideally like cooperation so we dont have to worry too much about abuse. Any chance of that?

  12. Parmartha says:

    I have a feeling that Osho and Gurdijeff, which is the on topic of this string, were more similar than most want to admit. Neither of them for example did acknowledge any of their living disciples as realised, and in both cases one could argue they seemed disappointed by that.
    By the way Lokesh, I once met a very old sannyasin who had met Osho socially when he was an Acharya. He admitted to being unimpressed with him in an Indian drawing room, but later when he saw his public oratory totally changed his mind, so having met Tyohar socially may not be such a good guide in your case. A young friend of mine took Tyohar, as he is an Arsenal supporter to a game at the Emirates, all quite ordinary. But within five minutes of leaving him after the game he felt as light as a kite for no reason for 24 hours… In Tyohar’s case he definitely attracts and holds some of the children (now adults) of sannyasins who I know, and they describe it as an energy connection, not really anything about his erudition or lack of it. Also they are impressed by his Costa Rican commune which is not rule bound, and allows for independence of expression, etc. The creation of it could also be said to be a real achievement as it has lasted some 10 years.
    Bhaskar, well you knew him better than me, but I knew him. He was certainly a rogue, but his satsangs which I attended both in London and Pune around 2000 were of a very good quality, both energy wise, and his answers to questions. His book, like Gurdjieff’s “Tales”, is sadly a load of old cobblers.
    He also created a commune in New Zealand which certainly lasted several years and was lauded by visitors I knew who went there.
    I like these two examples, whether realised or not, cos they did not just sit there and give satsang in an Advaitan way, they both “created” something, and within reason something they both could take pride in, however they managed to do it.
    Also neither sat around “moaning” about the Resort authorities in Pune when they were banned from the ashram there, they just took it as a push to go and create their own thing. Very laudable in my view, and something all those “moaners” that still exist about the Resort should go and do.

    • Arpana says:

      I read Fritz Peters. My Journey With A Mystic. on your recommendation and got a lot out of it.

      One similarity between the two, Osho and Gurdgieff, that occurred to me, is both use the friction that occurs between people. They don’t attempt to mitigate that. Indeed, both go out of their way to ensure it will always be going on. Its part of the game plan. Something like that. Because not despite.
      (A part of limiting, a way of limiting institutionalisation.)

      • dominic says:

        “One similarity between the two, Osho and Gurdjieff, that occurred to me, is both use the friction that occurs between people.”
        Ay there’s the rub!
        They sure did. Both vigorously initiated female devotees.
        Boy George had seven known ‘natural’ children (that’s mister-call).
        Many other similarities…
        Gurdjieff had the enneagram.
        Osho also added the enyagram. The use of relaxing new age music to induce a light trance, and the handing over of wads of cash.
        Both made it up as they went along, pioneered pay to work schemes and were mad hatters, though osho never fezed up.
        Osho used hippie crack, while G utilized many other ‘self-remembering’ aids.
        And they both mixed up a wide variety of ingredients, to make an everything soup.
        Gurd-chef, bad chef, master chef ?
        In the end it comes down to home cooking.

    • Lokesh says:

      Well to conclude on that ,PM, here is the insider news on Tyohar. As we all agree he is a very nice chap by all accounts. We also all agree that the Costa Rica commune is quite an achievment. And me and my confidante, who knows Tyohar well, both agree that he made an absolute wally of himself at those Amsterdam satsangs and that the guy is just one of the boys and is no more or less enlightened than you or I. So there.
      People like Tyohar and Maitreya simply have a need to play a role and get some good things together. Hats of to em, but they are no heroes to me, just good guys doing their original dance. My days of putting anyone on a spiritual pedestal are over. If lost for inspiration we can look to the spiritual giants of our time but now that I have a bus pass that need seems to already be fulfilled.

      • dominic says:

        Did see maitreya a few times and enjoyed the association.
        Perhaps it’s as much about the being together in the space.
        Tyohar….could be a rabbi with ringlets.
        Sometimes the urge to smack some of these ‘teachus’ comes over me. He’d be one …puncha mama.
        Blah blah…Come of it mate.
        Is it all benign, or does it just go on re-inforcing some unhealthy psychic structures for all parties ?

  13. prem martyn says:

    Tyohar, enlightenment, Arsenal ?? Premonitions ?

    Brings back those memories of the 80′s, Parmartha, when we had those comedy cabarets, one in the Highgate Tea Rooms in Whittington Park where I as comedy Compere, got the thronging sannyas hordes into two teams, on the one side repetitively chanting … ‘Ere we go, ‘Ere we go, ‘Ere we go….. to a riposte by the other side’s heaving mass, in the large 18th century, elegantly delicate, wooden-floored room , composed of fanatical silence-seeker away-team supporters who replied As One, with a rugged, belted, fortissimo ..’ Ommm Shantiii ‘….

    Still laughing after all these years…
    Thanks for the memories , mucho de la gracias Mr P.

  14. Preetam says:

    Neither G nor Osho told me to meditate a little around a corner. At an exclusive point it seems in “my” Meditation essential.

    We are just like electrons, seeking our way. In between we meet other electrons it comes to a clash, “hedgehog meeting point” not dilemma. What we do depends on how aware and respectful.

    The Link is a animation of the double split experiment:

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    • Preetam says:

      The primordial power has given us the initial impulse; we are carrying this primordial information all the way.

  15. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh your days of putting anyone on a spiritual pedestal are over. It should be so. How many dare to spend years of their youth behind a mystic.
    But it does not mean, there are now old people´s home, shops selling jewellery should close their shutters.
    In down town high street, there are so many girly shops, and really no one bothers any more to say, at least in Europe, ” This is an artificial jewellery.”

  16. shantam prem says:

    Spiritual masters claiming to have all the seven eyes open cannot see simply one thing, ” There communes and ashrams will lose 99% shine once they dust meet the dust and soul (may be) merges with the universe.
    In this context, is it not a fanciful thought to ask followers to invest their life saving into their Pyramids.
    This is also a very valid question for Swami Rajneesh?

    God willing, when I have the role of conducting a spiritual orchestra, commune will be in the tents or mud houses!

  17. mini kang says:

    Yes Shantam,
    Swami Rajneesh knows that all ashrams become dead once a Master is no more to create the fire. That all ashrams then become a business and controlled by those who manage the place like poona Resort.
    That is reason Swami Rajneesh has given sannyasin residents the ownership of their houses, and these are not owned by ashram, but becomes a residential commune of residents.
    And by offering all Osho therapies / groups / meditations for Free it can never again become a business model to exploit.
    The community has to serve the visitors and meditation or therapy participants and will receive donations out of love. This will create humble and open hearted sannyasins.
    He is also creating a Rotation Management system so One person never becomes the head controller like Amrito and Jayesh in Resort.
    I have heard Swami Rajneesh talk many many times that the new commune has to be made that sannyasins cannot exploit.
    He also says clearly that Osho message and meditations are the main central focus, and that he is just creating a space, for Osho message to flower, and become available for every seeker for Free.
    There are many points he says that are being looked into so that no abuse or exploitation will happen.
    Swami Rajneesh also plans to create 6 – 10 more such communes and make them all joined together, so any resident can freely move to another commune if they wish, like timeshare communes, but owned by residents.
    Remember Osho commune houses were donations, so a sannyasins could be removed with any reason. His commune houses are ownership. And they can only be sold / transferred to other sannyasins.

    • Arpana says:

      So your saying that Swami Rajneesh knows where Osho went wrong,
      and when Swami Rajneesh dies, everything will go on working as you want it to, and nothing will ever go wrong?

      • mini kang says:

        Osho was not wrong, as he never wanted to have One person in total control of his ashrams.
        But Jayesh gang have taken over control, which is against the Osho mandate, that says clearly, that there should be 21 management circle, an unanimous decision of 21 people.

        Swami Rajneesh is making sure that there is a Rotation system is maintained of the decision making process.
        And that all residents get their say in these matters.

        Dictators like Jayesh or Amrito would never have become so powerful if this Rotation condition was made, or if was ensured that only 21 members are in power otherwise the circle of management becomes inactive.

      • dominic says:

        I see your game plan arps. Generating friction. Gurdjieff in action. Brilliant.

    • Lokesh says:

      Welcome back, Mini. You’ve entered with a very controversial statement. ‘Swami Rajneesh knows that all ashrams become dead once a Master is no more to create the fire.’ I enjoy a good bonfire myself, but inciting sannyasins to commit arson is going too far. To suggest that our beloved master, Osho, was some kind of fire bug is outrageous. You are creating heavy karma by making such inflammatory statement. Please cool it!

  18. Lokesh says:

    Swami Rajneesh also plans to create 6 – 10 more such communes and make them all joined together.
    This is very suspicious news. Where is the money coming from? I hope this is not going to be a repeat of sannyasin men and women once again returning to Bombay’s five star hotels to prostitute themselves to raise cash from grand schemes. Even if it is just road links that are created, as opposed to rail, this will cost millions…and what about the impact on the environment, Mini? Have you really sat down with Swami Rajneesh and thought this grand project through? Have you contemplated taking up a nomadic existence? Cheaper and in my opinion much more spiritual. The Bauls of SN!

  19. mini kang says:

    Lokesh says // To suggest that our beloved master, Osho, was some kind of fire bug is outrageous. You are creating heavy karma by making such inflammatory statement. Please cool it! //

    Look who is talking here, should i again put up all the rubbish you talk about Osho here on SannyasNews ?? Or have you forgotten how you have abused Osho here on SN on so many occasions and have defenses Punjaji against Osho ??

    Lokesh says // This is very suspicious news. Where is the money coming from? I hope this is not going to be a repeat of sannyasin men and women once again returning to Bombay’s five star hotels to prostitute themselves to raise cash from grand schemes. //

    Again, reverting to describing us in terms of prostitutes ??

    Lokesh again says // Even if it is just road links that are created, as opposed to rail, this will cost millions…and what about the impact on the environment, Mini?//

    Is this is why you think you are an intellectual giant here on SN. Save the environment ?? This is why we all laugh at you here in our meetings, you comments are laughable and just reactive, with no insight or wisdom.

  20. mini kang says:

    Lokesh says //You’ve entered with a very controversial statement. ‘Swami Rajneesh knows that all ashrams become dead once a Master is no more to create the fire.’ I enjoy a good bonfire myself, but inciting sannyasins to commit arson is going too far. To suggest that our beloved master, Osho, was some kind of fire bug is outrageous. //

    You say we are inciting sannyasins to commit Arson by fire ??
    You say we suggest Osho was a kind of fire bug is outrageous ??

    Looks like you have forgotten what Fire means, This Fire is spiritual,
    but how to explain Fire to someone who is reactive and knows everything.

    • Lokesh says:

      Awwww…now I get it! Ooops, looks like I completely misinterpreted your words. I feel so embarssed. You are, of course, referring to the time Osho set his pyjammas on fire when he was smoking in bed. I heard Vivek gave him a right bollocking for that. Her screams apparently woke the guards and they thought that Lao tzu house was being attacked by Hindu Fundamentalists. Ah yes, those were the days.

  21. shantam prem says:

    Great visions fall flat because the visionaries are so much absorbed in their own dream world.
    Just few weeks before, Mini has written in the previous thread, something like Rajneesh has so much classified information, if he opens his mouth his life will be in danger!
    I wanted to write something at that time, which I do now.
    Nobody is going to harm Rajneesh physically. People have become smart enough not to create martyrs. I bet he won´t be one.
    My hypothesis says, what to say about 6-10 communes; even this one in Maxico most probably be jeopardized once it takes off. More or less, the way It happened in Goa. This time short can be deadlier as project will have the wings.
    Simple matter of the fact is, Rajneesh or any body can send thousands of arrows against Resort managers, the armour around them is very strong. Before leaving the body, Osho and His people have created deep roots of Pune ashram. It is part of India now.
    Rajneesh does not have this advantage therefore small rumour can turn into a wild fire.
    I hope he understands how politics work. Other side is waiting patiently for the right moment to say, checkmate!

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam, sounds like you are having great visions at the end of a crack pipe. You’ve flogged the resort management regime change to death and still you keep hammering away at it. As far is the regulars go I’d hazard a guess that most of them don’t give a toss about your pet topic. You hope Swami Rajneesh understands how politics work. Coming from you, Shantam, that is pretty rich seeing as how your forays into politics are a complete flop. Maybe you and Rajneesh can get your heads together and plan the imaginary revolution that only losers could possibly share an interest in. I don’t think you need strong armour to repel your arguments about management changes because even a blind person could see that your leadership and visionary qualities amount to zilch. I suggest sticking to your whacky metaphors at least they raise the ocassional chuckle, unlike your futile crusade which just looks pathetic.

    • mini kang says:

      Well Shantam, How about the fall of Rajneeshpuram, was Osho absorbed in his dream ?? Rajneeshpuram lost 200 million US$ of sannyasins money which money equals over 1 billion US$ today.
      Easy to critisize from behind the computer in comfort of your home.
      Atleast here Swami Rajneesh is creating a new commune with some courage. Even Goa project has not failed ( where we have a 50 acres property worth 2 million US$ ) just delayed due to government corruption and Goa land laws not being announced.
      And we have announced locations where Swami Rajneesh has been donated 2 more large properties for such free communes.
      Even mexico propert is just 8 kilometers from the famous beaches of Playa Del Carmen. This 48 acres property is worth over 3 million US$
      and we have already spent over 600,000 US$ on licenses and building approvals. Look at his dream being realized.
      It is very difficult these days, unlike old times where one can build without permits. Remember Poona Resort 6 acres and bungalow was a gift to Osho in 1975, and it took 38 years to come to what it is today.
      This means Swami Rajneesh is not dreaming but offering practical hard work and dedication his life to making Osho message Free. Even this is his compassion that he is not making a business out of Osho message.
      First walk your talk, or appreciate whatever Swami Rajneesh is contributing in real terms, and his vision is pure and uncorrupted.

      • Lokesh says:

        Mini, you declare, ‘ Swami Rajneesh is not dreaming but offering practical hard work and dedication his life to making Osho message Free.’
        Could you be so kind as to outline clearly and concisely what Osho’s message actually is? Seeing as how Swami Rajneesh sees the need to make this free you will further his cause by doing this on a widely read sannyasin blog. Perhaps you could also explain why this message of Osho’s needs to be freed in the first place. Who is actually capitalizing on this message and how will they be able to continue this process once you have liberated the message?

        • mini kang says:

          Without making a long long answer, Osho says
          “ Do not make a Business out of my Meditations “

          Swami Rajneesh says that Osho Therapists and Osho centers are exploiting Osho meditations and message, by only making a Business out of meditations. Their only interest is to make money, or to dominate, or take sexual advantage of newcomers, who are attracted to Osho after reading his books.

          Swami Rajneesh says that once Free Osho communes are available, these blood sucking parasite, exploiters will disappear.
          Osho movement has become a business, by those who dominate and control, like the Osho elite Therapists, that pretend to be Masters or Spiritual centers.
          He says the blood sucking parasites, or new age priests, or the rapists, will all be against him as it will destroy their business. He says this Corruption, Abuse, Exploitation, Domination has to be cleared. Then everything will flow easily.

          I have travelled with Swami Rajneesh in over 120 meditation camps around the world, and seen how young newcomers are tired of exploitation and abuse by Osho therapists. Especially in Russia I have heard of hundreds of cases of sexual abuse and money exploitation by Osho Therapists. So I understand why Swami Rajneesh speaks against therapists and those who are selling Osho.
          Swami Rajneesh says once Osho message becomes available for Free, Osho message will spread very easily, specially amongst young newcomers who are all waiting for some place to be together, and also do not have money to spend. Young people are inspired and want to meditate without exploitation. Remember they are rebels and do not like to be dominated or controlled.

          This is the reason Swami Rajneesh is loved by so many newcomers, as they can see that he is pure love for Osho, and is dedicating his life to make Osho available for everyone.
          He himself has never charged any money for any of his camps, and has always very strongly insisted, to all who manage his camps, to be open, allow anyone without money and to make these camps cheap to accommodate all who wish to come.
          I have heard him personally, insist and speak for hours to organisers, that this was his priority, and he would not like to hear of any business or exploitation, and if he sees than charge or try to make money, he will never do any more camps with them. I personally know he cancelled many camps when he heard the person was trying to make money, and has dropped many organisers when he learnt of such issues.

          We have travelled without any money around the world. We even had to borrow money for tickets and food and stay, but Swami Rajneesh insisted that this is the only way he is going to travel and humbly give his camps. As it was out of Love only.
          He feels that Osho meditations should be offered out of love and compassion, and therapists should be humble, and if they experience people feel their love, then they will get donations, if they deserve, but never to demand or charge money is his path.
          If you really understand, you will see Swami Rajneesh is pure love and compassion, and all newcomers are attracted to his innocent open heart. And even hundreds of people abuse him, but he always smiles and accepts as his reward, saying he can never sell Osho, as Osho is priceless.

          • satyadeva says:

            This would be more credible if it were made clear who has bought and who will buy the land and what exactly is the situation re the angry Indian investors whose money was retained against their will after the Goa project stalled.

            Also, if there’s any intention to repay whoever lent the money you borrowed for worldwide travel. And if so, how this might happen.

            Are you telling us, mini, that Swami R has absolutely no personal financial resources left? If so, I’d have to say, ‘pull the other one!’

            • mini kang says:

              All facts about Goa project and the finances are available for anyone to read:
              https://www.facebook.com/notes/swami-rajneesh/goa-commune-mexico-commune-news-facts/631389133555232

              All residents funds collected were about 500,000 US$ , and Swami Rajneesh also put his own funds of 450,000 US$

              Propert purchase and development accounts show expenditure and investment on project over 800,000 US$

              All investors have been given houses in Mexico and those who want refund will get their refunds once we have available funds or if we sell the Goa property.
              If we sell the Goa property then we have already got 2 more properties that have been announced.

              One of those properties have been donated to Swami Rajneesh.
              One is being arranged to purchase through his family, as part donation.

              Since Swami Rajneesh has offered everything free, many of his lovers are also offering him properties as donations for such projects.
              Yes we have 3 properties donated to us, but waiting for time, development architecture, planning and permissions.

              Swami Rajneesh spent over 200,000 US$ on all his 4 years of travels and camps. He even bought air tickets for 4 – 6 people who travelled with him for these camps. These were all his personal travel funds from 2007 to 2010

              Goa land was bought end of 2010, initially with his funds and then expenses were made out of residents funds for development there.

              All these funds 200,000 US$ travels and 450,000 US$ for Goa project, was out of his personal savings and earnings when he was working in Hongkong.
              He has spent / invested all his money for these commune projects.

              In mexico again we received 49 acres of land as donation. Which i said is now worth 3 million US$. Again, here we spent 600,000 US$ for planning and government permissions and licenses.

              You can see all this requires management and great efforts, as we have learnt how complicated and difficult it is to make any project these days of Eco laws and government issues.

              All donated properties and land have been kept or transferred to a Trust, where Swami Rajneesh is only a Trustee. He has not kept ownership in his hands, and has also donated everything he had for Osho Free communes.

              • satyadeva says:

                That’s an informative response, mini, thanks. Seems as if you have a lot on your plates – maybe too much.

                For example, how much of a priority is refunding the disappointed Indian investors whose funds were lost in the aborted Goa project and then, without their permission, used to fund something else, presumably the Mexico effort?

                Is the intention to wait till other projects are up and running, or what?

                You people have to realise that such ‘cavalier’, high-handed behaviour, disrespecting the rights of investors, is guaranteed to raise suspicions about your people’s integrity. That and the dismissively arrogant, pseudo-spiritual bullshit response of several of you to their pleas for refunds comes across as deeply unimpressive, the sort of thing that helps to ‘outlaw’ such groups in the minds of very many people. In other words, typically ‘cultish’ behaviour.

                • mini kang says:

                  Satya Deva, have you invested ?? We have already replied to the 3 people who are asking for refunds directly. Are you a commission agent ??
                  We have Indian account completely separate from Mexico account, as refunds are to be made directly from same bank to same bank for income tax laws.
                  Mexican banking laws and tax laws are very strict especially for a Trust setup.
                  We have promised all the 3 Indians and 4 foreigners refunds at same time, with proper Indian government Reserve Bank permission to transfer money back into foreign accounts. But that would appear to be cultish behavior to you.

                • satyadeva says:

                  But you haven’t answered the questions in the first 2 paragraphs of my post, mini.

                  Unless you do, it will be assumed you’re hiding something, not being as straight as you like to make out.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Mini kang, I repeat my earlier questions re the financing of your commune(s), which you haven’t answered yet:

                  How much of a priority is refunding the disappointed Indian investors whose funds were lost in the aborted Goa project and then, without their permission, used to fund something else, presumably the Mexico effort?

                  Is the intention to wait till other projects are up and running, or what?

          • Lokesh says:

            Well and good, Mini. I appreciate your sincere response.
            A couple of points I’d like to expand on.
            Osho says “ Do not make a Business out of my Meditations “
            That may be what he said, but what he actually did was a far cry from that. Right from the start of Poona One Osho made a business out of meditation and made no odds about it. The premise being if people don’t pay they don’t fully appreciate. I had no problem with this and the logic is sound.
            You had to pay to go to morning discourse. You had to pay for ten day meditation camps. You had to pay for a meditation pass. I’d go so far as to say that Osho enjoyed the business ethic. A telling example is in the docu Bhagwan his bodyguard etc. Sheela lovingly describes how Osho noticed sannyasins laying roses on the long bonnet of his roller during ranch drivebys. He immediately suggested that a flower shop should be opened. None of this fits in with ‘“ Do not make a Business out of my Meditations “ unless he meant its okay for me to do that but not you. Then again Osho did send sannyasins west to open meditation centres and all of them charged money, following his policy. I’ve no doubt some of the money created fell into the ashram coffers. Nonen of this concerns me, but these are valid points and I wonder how a person such as yourself manages to integrate this into being part of Osho’s vision, for want of a better word.
            You go on to say, ‘Swami Rajneesh says once Osho message becomes available for Free’ Here again we have this ‘message’. But what is the message? Why not publish it here and keep the ball rolling? As I see it Osho delivered many messages and they are already free, so what is the big message you keep on talking about but never deliver a concise description of?

            • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

              Mini’s detailed and honest response to Lokesh’s question, ‘What is Osho’s message?’ has been deleted.
              What are you afraid of ? Whose agenda are you serving ?

              ED:
              MINI DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION ‘WHAT IS OSHO’S MESSAGE?’
              SHE WROTE ABOUT HOW THE SWAMI R PEOPLE WOULD PRESENT THERAPIES, MEDITATIONS ETC. ETC. FOR FREE, A POINT THAT SHE AND YOU, DHYAN RAJ, HAD ALREADY MADE SEVERAL TIMES HERE.

              A MESSAGE AND HOW IT’S DELIVERED ARE NOT USUALLY THE SAME THINGS!

              • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

                okay then – if you say oshos words in his books, audio tapes, videos and oshos meditations are not oshos message but only the means by which his message is delivered

                well are you ready ?
                to understand that his message is energetic and transformative –
                and must be experienced –
                it is not knowledge that can be contained in words –
                oshos discourses are the excuse for us to sit and dance in his presence and dissolve into the energyfield of the buddha –
                rajneesh is creating again the buddhafield of our master osho –
                the living fire is the message – as you must be knowing
                - such old and wise sannyasins
                who sat with osho in the early days

                • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

                  when i arrived the first time to rajneesh ashram in end of 1980 – the air was thick with it – the living fire – the buddha field – on my arrival that night tired from the long journey and staying next door in sunderban i heard the massed voices of the sannyasins from buddha hall – the mens voices singing one part – the womens voices another – music group – ive never heard anything like it before – lifting energies up up up – a heavenly choir – such passion – such energy
                  falling asleep i dreamt there was a demon in my house – i dared not enter and stood in the street outside – it was in the attic – chopping off peoples heads – i realised this was bhagwan

                  the place was an energetic phenomenon rare in the world – i doubt there was another place like it – the buddha field filled with fire of spirit and thousands of participants in this great “experiment to provoke god” as bhagwan had called it

                  what a master to be able to conjure up such a phenomenon – but you had to lose your head to fully enter into it –
                  this is oshos message !

                  i am surprised and disappointed to find that old osho sannyasins can disrespect the master as they do – when such a rare opportunity was given them to ride on this huge wave of energy and dissolve themselves into the buddha
                  i can only assume then that they held onto their heads and would not allow the chop – becoming old pundits imagining they know all yet knowing nothing, finding solace in the cleverness of mind to find excuses that the master was only some rascal of a teacher they grew out of and that nothing of any consequence has been lost or needs to be regained –
                  attacking rajneesh who is the living flame of osho for his efforts to bring again the message – the fire – which is of so much value to the future buddhas and all who have the courage to participate

                • satyadeva says:

                  While presumably no one’s going to criticise anyone for going out and ‘following their dream’, the trouble is, DR, you give out all this fine-sounding rhetoric about how wonderful it is to ‘ride on the energetic wave of a living Osho-type buddha’ and so on, yet provide no evidence whatsoever of any personal ‘transformation’ (rather the opposite really, as, going on the evidence at SN, your ‘personal self’ is very much alive and, er, ‘kicking’).

                  Full of profound criticism of others, yet nothing to suggest you’re significantly any different…

                  Until contrary evidence appears, one tends to assume, therefore, that it’s ‘all talk, little substance’. Unless, like most of humanity, you’re simply living on ‘hope’….

                • bodhi vartan says:

                  Dhyanraj, Osho’s message is, promote me, represent me, but don’t be me.

                  >> – such old and wise sannyasins
                  who sat with osho in the early days

                  So give them the credit that they would know what the right thing looks (or in this case reads) like.

                  The problem I have with you guys is that you never admit any mistakes. How are you going to learn? Soon you will be falling into the infallibility trap. Please (if you want) give me one instance that you have changed your mind on any issue, since you have been on this board.

                • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

                  for vartan who mistakenly says “Osho’s message is, promote me, represent me, but don’t be me.”

                  “every disciple who has loved has become one with the master.

                  there is no need of any competition, nor one successor
                  it is for everybody who has offered himself in deep gratitude,
                  who has become one in a certain sense wth the master’s presence”

                  osho – nansen: the point of departure – chapter 2

                • satyadeva says:

                  While presumably no one’s going to criticise anyone for going out and ‘following their dream’, the trouble is, DR, you give out all this fine-sounding rhetoric about how wonderful it is to ‘ride on the energetic wave of a living Osho-type buddha’ and so on, yet provide no evidence whatsoever of any personal ‘transformation’ (rather the opposite really, as, going on the evidence at SN, your ‘personal self’ is very much alive and, er, ‘kicking’).

                  Full of profound criticism of others, yet nothing to suggest you’re significantly any different…

                  Until contrary evidence appears, one tends to assume, therefore, that it’s ‘all talk, little substance’. Unless, like most of humanity, you’re simply living on ‘hope’….

            • bodhi vartan says:

              Lokesh says:
              >> That may be what he said, but what he actually did was a far cry from that.

              That is a prob I also have with good ol’Osh. To be doing what he did, or what he said?

              My current scale,

              Did: 65%
              Said: 35%

  22. satyadeva says:

    mini kang:
    This is why we all laugh at you here in our meetings, you comments are laughable and just reactive, with no insight or wisdom.

    SD:
    Irony-deficient and historically uninformed (not to mention “prostates”) –

    You probably won’t understand, mini, but you’ve just provided one of the finest series of unconsciously self-revealing posts ever here at SN.

    With perfect, Saturday night timing too!

    Please, is it all totally original? Or do you get a bit of help?

    Either way, it’s brilliant, incomparable in fact.

  23. Lokesh says:

    Mini, joking apart, it is a well established fact that during the late seventies it was quite common for sannyasin women to go to Mumbai and do a bit of whoreing in the Taj Mahal hotel in the Colaba. I heard that the Arab wallahs often requested that the girls keep their malas on when they got busy. Some of the more experienced women charged $1000 a night. A lot of mullah back in the day. Some girls have all the luck. Not you, though.
    Mini, you don’t know much about sannyas history. Sorry, but its true.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Don’t worry about the ’70s. When the old boy was on Crete as soon as some mas were running out of spending money, they’d be up on the main road selling their wares. But I don’t consider the practice to be a purely sannyasin thing. Many girls on holiday in foreign lands would try and extend their stay with whatever is at hand.

  24. shantam prem says:

    Time has shown, neither people like Lokesh know about Osho and neither Osho was aware about the real west.
    Marriage made in the air celebrated on earth.
    Pieces of the busted balloon will be collected by the cleaning lady!

    • Kavita says:

      maybe cleaning people ? why put the responsibility on one person .

    • Lokesh says:

      Well, Shantam, seeing as how I sat with Osho and talked with him one on one well over a hundred times and still did not know him, which I agree with, in the sense that how can we honestly say that we actually know anyone? I’d like you to explain how you imagine yourself to know Osho, seeing as how you never actually sat down with him for a wee chat.
      I find it a bit of a joke that people like yourself have hijacked Osho’s name for your failed cause. Proclaiming, like Swami Rajneesh, that you want to spread Osho’s message and continue his legacy but not once taken the time to actually demonstrate what you mean by that. I see you, Shantam, as a complete fraud. The differance between you and Swami Rajneesh is that at least he believes in what he is doing to the extent that he actually implements it, encourages young people to meditate etc. You do nothing but talk, and as every one knows talk is cheap.

      • Lokesh says:

        Arps, I don’t claim to be anyone special. You are taking what I say out of context to make some kind of point, which is of no interest to me because it has something to do with your personal trip.
        To reiterate, we have Shantam setting himself up as someone who is in a position to implement Osho’s message and his legacy, whatever he imagines them to be. He declares, ‘neither people like Lokesh know about Osho’, which means he presumes that he is in a position to know such a thing…utter bullshit seeing as how he had no real contact with Osho other than what he imagines he had. As I understand it Osho always declared any relationship with him was purely on your part not his…in other words a projection.
        To me it is all very old hat. Right now SN provides me with a little entertainment in the heat of the day and that is about it. I can’t take any of this humbug about Osho’s legacy seriously, because if Osho has such a legacy it is a confusing one at the very least.
        I always liked Maneesha, and probably still would if I met her today. In the ashram she was a somebody and basically I was a nobody. Maybe a dozen or so photos in Darshan diaries but so what? I can easily counter your argument with Osho’s saying that the frontliners in discourse were the ones most in need of his help, while people in the back like me smiled smugly and said to themselves, ‘I knew it’. But that is also bullshit. I’m not in competition with anyone in life, except perhaps myself. The point that you are trying to make, Arps, says far more about yourself than it does me.
        I only know you from what you write on SN. I reckon you are okay, yet somehow stuck within some parameters that were set in place back in Poona One. Fine for the time and in relation to humanity still fine. To me you sound stuck. No big deal. That’s only my opinion, and like assholes everyone has one.

        • Arpana says:

          ‘The point that you are trying to make, Arps, says far more about yourself than it does me.’
          equally
          ‘The point that you are trying to make, Lokesh, says far more about yourself than it does me.’

          ‘yet somehow stuck within some parameters that were set in place back in Poona One. Fine for the time and in relation to humanity still fine. To me you sound stuck.’

          Curiously enough Sannyas News has been a gift, to me, about getting past that Poona one framework. I don’t see myself as having been particularly stuck in it, but I certainly, as far as I am concerned, experience myself cleared of it now.
          As to you
          You constantly reference Poona one and what you did. Way, way more than I do. Way, way more than anyone else

          • Lokesh says:

            Arps says, ‘You constantly reference Poona one and what you did. Way, way more than I do. Way, way more than anyone else.’ That may well be true. There are a number of reasons for this. I think the number one reason might be that having spent seven years in Poona One I know a lot about the grass roots of the sannyas movement and a lot of newer sannyasins obviously don’t. Even Swami Rajneesh called me a lunatic when I wrote about the mass steralization programme that took place during that time, which means he is either living in denial about it or simply doesn’t know about it. Also during those years it was relatively easy to have close contact with Osho, something which I took full advantage of. Now I have young people on this site asking me to prove that I did. To me this is ridiculous.
            In Poona One I knew one or two Arpanas. The one I knew best worked as one of Diksha’s go-fors. He was a pretty cool guy, but somehow I doubt that is you.
            Arps, when I say you come across as someone who is stuck in parameters laid out in Poona One days I mean that in the context of how you relate to Osho and sannyas in general. I have onlywha you write on here to go on and that is the impression cast in my mind. Certainly no big deal.

            • Arpana says:

              You say.

              Arps, when I say you come across as someone who is stuck in parameters laid out in Poona One days I mean that in the context of how you relate to Osho and sannyas in general. I have only what you write on here to go on and that is the impression cast in my mind. Certainly no big deal.

              That is how I see you, and given you write a hundred words to every one of mine…

              • Lokesh says:

                To be honest I’m finding it increasingly difficult to relate to sannyas and Osho. I do try but my heart is no longer in it. Well as Dhyanrage will tell you I am an ex-sannyasin of 32 years, so, hardly surprising now, is it?

                • Kavita says:

                  isn’t that odd ! Lokesh , I also feel the same , in 22 years of sanyas .

                • bodhi vartan says:

                  I sort of dropped out for roughly ten years. If you spoke to me five years ago or even two years ago I would have said the same. I remember looking into it now and again and it felt like old hat, with all that sex and stuff, and the stupidity of it all.

                  Today it feels as fresh as a fresh thing. Not only that but I feel it is better that a lot of the other ideas that currently being pushed about. Take for example that Zizek chap that I mentioned some moons back. Over the last few years he has been getting into buddhism, you can check out his lectures on utube an all you will find is headstuff and he has a following … Osho on the other hand … and that is just one subject. I can name you five.

                  It feels very different today. I don’t really know what it was then, but today I am not taking it seriously, it’s just a giggle, I only have a few years to go so it’s just a play. Maybe it always was …

                  Somehow you guys that appear to have given up, yet are still here entertaining … so, what is it that you like? Is it the attention you get, or is it the attention you give?

  25. Kavita says:

    I shall believe 100% , everything Swami Rajneesh is saying about his love for his master , if he will not have a single photo of himself in the communes he is creating .

    • Lokesh says:

      The fact that you believe something does not make it true, Kavita. You should know that. All it means is that you have decided to gather positive info to make it appear so. Were you inclined to disbelieve you would simply gather nego info to make it appear so.

      (ED: PART OF THIS POST HAS BEEN DELETED).

    • mini kang says:

      And what do we do with Swami Rajneesh lovers who are inspired by him, and use his photo ?? We have seen even 25 or more people use his photo on their Facebook profile, as they love him and are inspired by him. You cannot stop each person and their heartfelt expression.

      Remember Swami Rajneesh is claiming that he is an Osho sannyasin first, and a devotee of Osho. This actually inspires and motives young newcomers who see that there is some hope to reach on their own journey. I see Rajneesh inspire other sannyains.
      If all have failed, then what is the inspiration for new comers ?? All failures, and only One Enlightenend master Osho ?? You see the dilemma ?? Who appears to have failed ??
      Can you not see newcomers asking this question everyday ? Why Osho failed in awakening many sannyasins ?? I see Swami Rajneesh re affirms that Osho succeeded, at least in his case.
      Osho decared and wished for 10,000 buddhas, and we cannt tolerate even One sannyasin declaring his love for our beloved Master Osho. Think careful about this flip side to the equation, that no one declares his arrival.

      • satyadeva says:

        This is a flawed response, mini kang. Either it’s an Osho commune or a Swami R commune, you’re caught between the two.

        But where did you get the idea that only one sannyasin has found ‘awakening’? No need to actually answer this, it’s blatantly obvious. Your hero has been feeding you self-serving bullshine.

        • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

          mini has not said that only one sannyasin has found “awakening” satyadeva – read more carefully please – the idea you ascribe to her is your own negative spin

          • satyadeva says:

            No, DR, the idea was generated by the ambiguous way she wrote about it.

            How many sannyasins have found “awakening”, would you say?

            • mini kang says:

              Each sannyasin has the freedom to declare their finding, Or do i have to announce every name myself ?? I know about Swami Rajneesh, that he dared.

      • Kavita says:

        Let his lovers use his photo .

        I have been with Swami Rajneesh & know he has the ability to take persons towards meditation by his sheer presence , I have no doubt about it , my doubt arises when , he is doing it in the name of his master , why his own picture is needed ? Iam just seeing a bigger picture .

        • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

          ha ha ha ha – kavita – a photo of osho, a buddha, is one means by which people who are open to him can connect with him, bringing his energy to them – and so is the case with a photo of rajneesh, a buddha –
          and if lovers want to connect with rajneesh through a photo i dont see what the problem is – why prevent them ?
          as you probably know in rajneeshs meditaton camps there is always a large photo of osho – and rajneesh is there in the body large as life – no need for photo

          • Kavita says:

            ssd , just so that you can read the context again .

            Kavita : I shall believe 100% , everything Swami Rajneesh is saying about his love for his master , if he will not have a single photo of himself in the communes he is creating .

            Min : And what do we do with Swami Rajneesh lovers who are inspired by him ,
            and use his photo ?? . . . . . . .

            Kavita : Let his lovers use his photo .

            I have been with Swami Rajneesh & know he has the ability to take persons towards meditation by his sheer presence , I have no doubt about it , my doubt arises when , he is doing it in the name of his master , why his own picture is needed ? Iam just seeing a bigger picture .

          • satyadeva says:

            Similar to Kavita’s point, as I’ve said before, the “problem” would seem to be that it’s rather unclear just whose commune it is, Osho’s or Swami R’s.

            That’s what you get when someone’s an imitator, I guess.

            • Kavita says:

              No sd , to me Swami Rajneesh is not an imitator , this is my personal experience , I very well know I have not been in the physical presence of Osho , I think existence has played a game , if that is possible ?

              • satyadeva says:

                “Not an imitator”?!
                The appearance, the facial expressions, the tone of voice, the manner of speaking, the gestures?

                The sheer unoriginal nature of his ‘teaching’?

                I suppose if you missed being with Osho, you don’t know any better.

            • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

              unclear whose commune it is ? invent all the imaginary problems you like satyadeva – clarity of mind will continue to elude one whose heart is seems to be so firmly closed

              • satyadeva says:

                Well, DR, whose commune is it?

                Two photos to ‘connect with’ – would seem to suggest some confusion.

                Clarity, please, O Messenger!

                • Kavita says:

                  Mess- enger !

                • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

                  ha ha ha ha – are you confused satyadeva ? it doesnt take much does it ? – oh dear – two photos to connect with – how can this be ? – ask your mate lokeshji – he has photos of two masters on his wall i hear

          • Lokesh says:

            I’ve thrown my guru photos away and replaced them with playpet of the month. Miss August has really big…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………ears.

      • Lokesh says:

        Mini declares, ‘We have seen even 25 or more people use his photo on their Facebook profile.’
        Could this signal a shift in global consciousness?
        Mini, you come across as some sort of social accountant. Constantly quoting facts and figures. I’d say that for the most part hardly anyone who writes on SN will be impressed by this obsession of yours, especially taking into account that any time I do something like that you immediately demand an investigation. Do you have a wee sideline running in the private eye department?

      • swami anand anubodh says:

        So tell us Mini Kang.

        How many of Swami R’s followers have declared their ‘Enlightenment?’

      • dominic says:

        Rajneesh has achieved osho karaoke Nuttahood.
        You appear childlike in your devotion. Your own personality overlaid by his trance induction.
        The only failure is an uncritical belief in all these golden carrots and myths being dangled in front of your eyes.
        Sweet dreams are made of this.

        • mini kang says:

          Dominic, Yes, my childlike innocence is the greatest treasure i carry. Yes, i am in trance induction when i meet Swami Rajneesh. Yes, sweet dreams are made of this, and i am living my dream, as it is my life to live.

          • satyadeva says:

            I thought the object of the exercise is to ‘wake up’…

            Beware, mini kang, “childlike innocence” is also supreme ignorance, the “dream”, the “trance” is always only a step or two away from becoming a nightmare…

            Then…you might just ‘wake up’….

            • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

              beware beware
              of the grumpy old bear
              he says all the love
              is soon a nightmare

              through filter of mind
              innocence becomes ignorance
              for a grumpy old bear
              has forgotten how to dance

              confused and asleep
              the trance is too deep
              for a grumpy old bear
              who wants you to weep

              beware beware
              the grumpy old bear
              his dream is over
              and has become a nightmare

              • Arpana says:

                Bears like all wild animals, are no trouble to anyone, unless bear baiters fuck them about.

                Moral.
                Dont bait the bears.

              • satyadeva says:

                That’s actually the best thing you’ve ever put on here, DR, most amusing it is.

                Rather in the style of an old ‘Rupert’ story in fact…

                Nothing, of course, remotely concerning any actual person, alive or dead, but nevertheless well executed.

                Well done, lad, if you continue to progress over the summer holidays there’ll a place for you in the top set next term.

          • dominic says:

            Seems you are happy in your cradle, while daddy rocks you and whispers lullabies.
            From zorba to zombie, you are free to worship the osho hood, even with a mind so open that the brains fall out.

  26. shantam prem says:

    What nonsense you are writing lokesh?
    Out of thousands of published posts on this blog, tell me a single time, yes a single time where I proclaim to say my wish to spread Osho´s message.
    Such kind of priestly qualities I don´t have.
    My only point of agenda is that people who have occupied Main property in Pune, which was created by Osho through the donations and free work of participants and which is a flag ship Ashram should be run with the spirit the way Osho left rather than limiting and narrow interpretation.

    My agenda is to expose those people who have expanded the shopping areas of airport but made the holes on the runway.
    If you can understand the meaning in the above sentence, then communicate further otherwise have a good time.
    People like Lokesh who went to India have not learnt a simple thing to find the hidden meaning in the words used in a googly way. Their culture produces fast bowlers but no spinners.
    Indian religious climate produces spinners and pitches are made accordingly.
    For example, loki mind can say, “Hay Shantam are you crazy. We are talking about Osho and his work and you give the example of airports and runways. During my seven year stay in Pune, I did not see a single runway there was only one cycle stand! “

  27. Lokesh says:

    Shantam says, ‘Out of thousands of published posts on this blog, tell me a single time, yes a single time where I proclaim to say my wish to spread Osho´s message.’
    Shantam, I’m quite sure I could search through your comments and find something that totally contradicts your above declaration, but quite frankly I couldn’t be arsed. It is not important for me to prove a point here. It’s much ado about absolutely nothing and I’ve said my bit in relation to your presuming to know better than others, when I don’t really see how that is possible, all things considered. I rest my case for the prosecution. The jury finds you guilty and sentences you to a lifetime of verbal labour for a lost cause.

  28. swami anand anubodh says:

    Hi Mini.

    I think it is very commendable that you are so protective of Osho and Sannyasins.

    Although it is not documented anywhere, it is rumored that Gurdjieff (like Poonjaji) was also critical of Osho.

    But I suspect that they were both just jealous.

    Would you agree?

    • Parmartha says:

      We usually expect GCSE level history on this forum.
      Anubodh,
      Gurdjieff never knew who Osho was, he lived and worked long before Osho was a public figure.

      • dominic says:

        There I was thinking, why even Parmartha’s posts get moderated sometimes, then suspicious… my post gets deleted and Parmartha’s re-appears.

        ED’S NOTE TO ALL:
        SOMETIMES WE DON’T GET IT RIGHT AND REVERSE EARLIER DECISIONS. APOLOGIES FOR ANY HASSLE THIS MIGHT CAUSE.

        PS: PLEASE KEEP ON-TOPIC AND AVOID PERSONAL ABUSE.

      • swami anand anubodh says:

        Yes Parmartha I know. Gurdjieff died in 1949.
        I was just curious to see if someone else knew that or would there just be a predictable response.

    • dominic says:

      I agree. Historical accuracy be damned, (in the best guru tradition).

      In a lingam measuring contest in the Big ‘Guru’ House, Osho would have been crowned ‘Capo di tutti capi’, (the don of all the dons).
      Then, General ‘handlebars’ Gurdjieff would have thrown a jealous fit, knocked back a case of Armagnac, and got the women up the duff.
      ‘Call of the search’ Papaji would have declared anybody saying the magic phrase, ‘Luck Now’ enlightened.
      And Osho bought himself a spangly new ladies watch with the winnings.

  29. shantam prem says:

    Many times lost causes are worth fighting for!
    Why to fight just for the market share of Burger king or Subway!

  30. shantam prem says:

    Seems like Osho sannyas has more 50 plus then 15 plus in the fold. This any one can see if they read sannyasnews.
    Much of the stuff is about the past.

  31. dominic says:

    Gurdjieff in the wild. Stop meditation.
    http://youtu.be/jwMj3PJDxuo

  32. Anand Newman says:

    Lokesh:
    What is Osho’s message?
    AN: Its like using – a high tech car to commute every day, cell phone to communicate, laptop to browse internet, taking dietery supplements/pills for health and asking “what is the message of Science”?.

    • Lokesh says:

      Dear Newman, how long have you been studying under Professor Shantam, dean of the University of Metaphorical Mumbo -Jumbo?

  33. shantam prem says:

    How you can have the real contact with Osho if you have not sat hundreds of times in one to one presence of Osho.

    Therefore let us prepare a list of people who can be counted upon as real virus transmitters of Osho.

    1 Amrito
    2 Jayesh
    3 Lokesh
    4 Sheela
    5 Vivek
    6 Maneesha, Kaveesha, Diksha, Samiskha and all those whose name end with Sha in the end!

    Shantam can not be in the list. He has Sha in the start.
    He is declared clown to entertain the Osho elites!

    • Arpana says:

      Shantam.
      I personally do no feel disrespectful of your sannyas
      experience,
      but I do feel disrespectful, when you come across, as does Lokesh, as the the only person whose experience has any validity.
      You dismiss everyone who came before you, as Lokesh dismisses everyone virtually who came since

      Doesn’t matter when people take sannyas.

      I met someone last year, who so obviously was in the same space about Osho as myself and those people I knew who were as new to sannyas as I was then. Was a great moment.

      • bodhi vartan says:

        Arpana says:
        >> Doesn’t matter when people take sannyas.

        Absolutely!!!

        but … there is a certain something, call it transmission, in the heads of the oldies, that the newbies have absolutely no idea about

        Especially when you hear ppl saying that Swami R’s ‘presence’ has anything to do with Osho.

        In only a few years they will not be any left who sat in Osho presence so you can all let your fantasies flesh.

  34. shantam prem says:

    As per Lokesh, Clever boy from Scotland, during Pune one there was mass sterilisation programme!
    And how he saved his willy will be quite interesting to know.
    Also during those years it was relatively easy to have close contact with Osho, something which he took full advantage and yet did not participated in the mass sterilisation programme propagated by his beloved Bhagwan!

    And now this clever boy from Scotland wants to erase those chapters of Osho and his people´s life where he was not participating.
    Sorry, not all, he wants to keep few chapters of Rajneeshpuram intact.

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam’s curiosity has been tweeked…’And how he saved his willy will be quite interesting to know.’
      Quite a simple story actually. I had a dream. Osho spoke to me in the dream. He said, ‘go forth and multiply.’
      I’ll bet you don’t know what 25487655 times 28976533 is do you? Well I do!

      • bodhi vartan says:

        >> I’ll bet you don’t know what 25487655 times 28976533 is do you? Well I do!

        Your sperm count?

        • Lokesh says:

          Yeah, I’ve often been mistaken for a sperm whale while crossing shipping lanes on my swims. Its just me and three naked women these days…eat your blubber out. Oh oh here comes MC blowfish. I better split the scene,man, before my comment is delated.