Osho and his Disciples’ Enlightenments!

 Osho and his Disciples’  Enlightenments!

Except for one famous occasion Osho never “authorised” – like some other teachers (for example Papaji) chosen disciples to go off and teach in their own name.

 Peeple like Somendra (Micheal Barnett) were always “fishing”,  in his questions to the ‘Master’,  to somehow verify his enlightenment. Osho never did, and when Somendra left the commune, he commented later that Somendra still needed “Healing”.

However there was one major exception to that, in 1984. Maybe Osho was bored with all those days not talking! An announcement was made in Rajneeshpuram of three categories of advanced sannyasins: Siddhas, Arihantas and Acharyas.. A meeting was called with Osho of these people, (I don’t have a list does anyone have one?), and the definiens pronounced by Osho. Briefly three categories, first category were enlightened, second category who would make it in this life quickly, and finally those who would likely make it in this life but somewhat later.

I was around at that time, and remember people like Santosh wandering around like some kind of newly named Jesus after his encounter with John the Baptist. And not only that, loads of presumably inferior sannyaisns following in his wake, and him encamping on the Ranch roadside and spouting forth!

There were only two Indians in the groups, one was Anand Maitreya. To my lasting memory only what he said seemed apposite at the time. As he was leaving the meeting he said to an acquaintance “Osho is really a rascal”!  He clearly saw through it all, and saw it as a joke. But as far as I know no one else did at the time, INCLUDING the sangha!

Of course the game or device was the joke itself. Not though as I recall fully disclosed until 1985, when Osho said in a press conference re the subject:

“This was just a joke. We enjoy everything, even we can make a joke of enlightenment. It was nothing but once in a while the commune needs some entertainment.  (Osho – Press Conferences, interview with Don Lattin, San Francisco Examiner, 16 September 1985)

However it was a joke at the expense of the ‘spiritual leadership’ of the commune.  As far as I could see only Maitreya came out of it with any real credit. Others like Santosh were prepared to trade on it, and oddly enough as soon as Osho declared they were NOT enlightened, they quickly undeclared themselves enlightened!

A month after that Press Conference a sannyasin asked Osho what were the chances of those who were not in the lists.

“More chances! If you are nobody you have more chance of becoming enlightened. The moment you become somebody, the doors close.”

(Osho – From Bondage to Freedom, #37, Doubt is absolutely okay, 21 October 1985)

If enlightenment exists it sure is “nothing serious”!

Parmartha

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234 Responses to Osho and his Disciples’ Enlightenments!

  1. frank says:

    maybe he was serious and that stuff was real for him,
    but when he saw the siddhas, pocahontas and badassattvas making mugs of themselves, he had second thoughts and decided to try and fob it all off as a joke.

    “there aint no answer
    there aint going to be any answer
    there never has been any answer
    that’s the answer”
    —-gertrude stein

    • anonymous says:

      O Mr Anonymous, scary to say name Mr Frank or ever talk your life, makeing the jokes all adding up your benefit.Shadow pupit. Okay so you nothing enlightened exists you always saying in jokes, or just everone absarrd from anonymous Brave Mr Frank. Good you tell laughter, equality laughing is good. One misteke you say for Parmartha one time not exist this state of liberation Being , in your opinion. Not existing at all, all rubbish now.you say so for many years.Make quotation Stein , you still say same between lines still say same. easy now Frank life beter easy. Everything ha ha. You don’t meet Osho ever ?

      In soul of being your ha ha is true… but maybe you don’t know Osho at all …many years it seem you know ideas, story,learning,living, mistakes etc etc.. but you don’t talk osho touch you heart…make flower in heart …tell you make energy darshan direct from Osho’s heart to phsical transmission in Pune 1 you ever make ? Tears of gratitude toMr Osho.. he not anonymous, many years he live and make life of great tenderness for all beings. He spend time in jail for big mouth and truoble make, you ever spend time in jail for you big mouth or truble make, or you live quiet book read drug take life with mask ? you touch some person with energy like in darshan ..you know joy Mr frank.. then take laughter and marry to joy .. otherwise laughter marriage is head for low rocks . Do both laugh and joy and show all possibility inlife.. not priest not follower not stupid not safe life Mr frank not safe one that rubbish ha ha.

      • swamishanti says:

        Yeah Frank, you naughty boy you.
        Dont you ever take some time to put on your white robes and watch your osho vids?
        Or perhaps you could hang some flowers on your pics of osho at home? Make nice puja for him?

    • dominic says:

      Not to mention all those sweaty Hairyhantas and proper Acharlies.
      I hear your answearing, gs.

      “or you live quiet book read drug take life with mask ?”
      Now who does that remind you of ? ;)

  2. Arpana says:

    Everyone talked a bout enlightenment in those days, like people who
    worked in banks talked about getting promoted.
    He was challenging, confronting our ideas.
    Those people he played with showed us ourselves in some way.

    (Notice how careful I’ve been not to use the D word. )

    Some useful D word synonyms.

    method. a way of doing something, especially a planned way system.
    a method of organizing or doing things

    way. a method for doing something

    means

    a method for doing or achieving something

    tactic

    a particular method or plan for achieving something

  3. Lokesh says:

    Parmartha, some time back I told the story of English Ram, who at a discourse circa 1977 was proclaimed enlightened by Bhagwan. And thus a constant flow of people like myself into Ram’s room at Mobos to see the enlightened one. It was, without doubt, a cosmic joke, although it took a few of us, including Ram, some time to get it.
    I reckon the whole enlightenment game has about played itself for the current era. This morning I had coffee with a new friend of the past year down by the beach. In his late thirties with a gorgeous wife and three wondeful children I really appreciate what this man has to say. Amongst other things he graduated with honours from one of the world’s top universities and is a consultant for renewable energy business. He also likes to trip out on hallucinogens. He’d just returned from another country where he had participated in a ayahuasca session with a shaman who just so happened to be a sannyasin. Going by my friends description it sounded like a serious journey into the beyond. I asked him to give me a concise description of what he got out of his session. He laughed and said, ‘A great sense of love, overwhelming gratitude and a vision of all the wonderful things human beings could get up to if the boat is steered in the right direction.’ I liked that last bit verY much. This world the lotus paradise, comes to mind.
    With teachers like Osho and Papaji it is easier to get a taste for the enlightenment thing. Unfortunately teachers and gurus like them are few and far between, or so it seems to me today. They just made enlightenment appealing by simply being who they were. Papaji was down home and loved cricket, but one on one he was, just like Osho, a very powerful force to be reckoned with. His life made beautiful sense to me. Osho was much more theatrical, but sitting on the back porch of Lao Tzu there was nobody quite like him as far as being an advertisement for enlightenment goes. He was cosmic. When I look around and see the ones presenting themselves as enlightened ones these days I’m simply not attracted to any of them. Enlightenment is not something you get, especially from someone else.
    Back on the street, humanity’s sleep appears deeper than ever, if the obssesion for all things material is an indicator of such things. What to do? Each to his own. I enjoy a bit of the world as much as anyone else, but I am very grateful that I have a garden gate to shut the world out at some point every day. As far as enligtenment goes I learnt something from Poonjaji about such things. No need to sweat things like enlightenment, if they are meant to happen they will, just lke breathing, being born and dying. Enjoy the ride while you still can, and share a bit of love, laughter and dance along the way. Thinking about enlightenment is a complete waste of time.

    • Parmartha says:

      Thanks the thought out response Lokie. I had forgotten about Ram, but remember it now. What happened to him in the end?
      I myself am not interested in enlightenment, but am interested in this major enlightenment game Osho played in 1984….

      • Lokesh says:

        Yes, Ram, faded into obscurity in London I suspect. He was a sweet and gentle guy.

        • Arpana says:

          Maybe he got it, and he’s quietly, privately getting on with his life, quietly touching the lives of those who know him. Invisibly making a contribution to ‘the world being a better place.’

          • Lokesh says:

            That is possible, Arpana. Then again, isn’t that what we are all attempting to do in one form or another.
            When people ask me about how it was with Osho back in the begining of Poona One my standard reply is often to describe Osho as a beacon or a flag, around which we gathered alike moths unto a flame. It was our way of taking a stand against all the bullshit that is going down on the planet and part of that was endeavouring to make ourselves better people, in the sense that we could help bring about the change that is so needed if we aren’t going to fuck up our environment to the point of making it uninhabitable. I believe I am right in saying that for most of us the impulse was already there. Osho did his bit by helping that impulse develop. Perhaps for some the impulse was dormant and he helped people awaken to it…inspire one might say.
            It relationship to enlightenment I think that Osho was a major debunker of the idea. Many still have the idea that perfection is something to be attained in some distant future…if not in this life another. What I really dug about Osho was that he brought that future to the moment and said all that is needed now is to have the courage to live it.
            So, Arpana, I’m sure you will agree that somehow we are all doing our bit, no matter how small it is, every little bit counts…an ocean is, afterall, composed from droplets of water.

            • Arpana says:

              ‘all doing our bit, no matter how small it is, every little bit counts…an ocean is, afterall, composed from droplets of water.’

              Yes.

    • mini kang says:

      I cannot understand how Punjaji or Papaji is always compared to Osho, as i hear Punjaji was always against Osho and speaking against Osho.
      He was jealous of Osho and said many times that Oregon Commune was destroyed as Osho was a morally degraded, and was removed from America because he was a criminal.
      Punjaji was never a disciple of Osho, and this is Osho Sannyas News. Why does Lokesh always advertise Punjaji when Punjaji did not even become a sannyasin ? Atleast i can respect a sannyasin as one who had courage to bow down and become a disciple of Osho. We should not regard Punjaji same as Osho but learn to have love for our own sannyasins and fellow travelers first.

      • Lokesh says:

        Mini, it might be good for you to write about subjects that you at least know a little about. Your above comment is totally absurd and based on nothing other than ignorance…in other words, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

  4. shantam prem says:

    After reading and listening his master, Mr. Somebody decided he needs a new identity. Not only name plate on the main door was changed, an e mail was also send to all the friends and relatives, please treat me as Nobody!

  5. shantam prem says:

    Enlightenment is like G spot.
    May be someone have it, many fake it, few worry about it and rest simply ignore.
    why not to be contented with simple orgasm!

  6. shantam prem says:

    World does not need certified or self appointed Enlightened. Look around, despite of all the side bar ads. given by such people, attendance is never this much to finance the promotion work.
    Most of the time, even those who have created some sort of following base, it is because of their leadership qualities rather than their Silence.
    But surely, world needs Science of Enlightenment. Osho was working for it.
    That science, which His disciples have screwed!

    • Anand Newman says:

      My heart goes out with you on this Shantam. Whether anyone agrees or not, Osho definitely wanted to make a lasting impact on the world for both material as well as spiritual upliftment. And his work and contribution deserves it. It is definitely screwed up.

      Science ( scientific device) means that is something indisputable ( it can be improved upon) . Scientific device is something that works and yield result. The input has to have an output. Yes, we need a device , a science that works for enlightenment. What Patanjali did centuries ago , Osho tried to do it for the modern age.

      I don’t know whom to blame for screwing up. Why only blame poor guys who are somehow continuing his work. What about the whole ugly conditioning of the humanity, the media, the politicians and so on. By some magic, if I bring all 21 inner circle members into one room and make them to sit and work together, what difference would it make. I am curious to hear everyone’s comments on this.

      • satyadeva says:

        So very, very, very, very true, Anand Newman. I wholeheartedly applaud your vision, courage and tenacity in having the sheer, unadulterated guts to present such a far-sighted proposal.

        And curiosity is no bad thing either, of course. As Osho declared, many times.

    • Arpana says:

      The fact that none of Osho’s people are carbon copies of you,
      or fit with your expectations of how to be a sannyasin
      seems to me to be a mark of success rather than failure.

      You sound like a fundamentalist Christian.
      Everyone has got it wrong but you.

      You really believe that all Osho’s effort was about creating a world full of clones of you.

      I’ve taught teenagers with more self respect and modesty than you have, and they weren’t even trying.

      • Anand Newman says:

        Can we please stop attacking on personal level and rather respond to the point of discussion. What do you know about me so you can get into such conclusions. I think some of us here has a habit of reading things out of context and respond.

        • Arpana says:

          On the defensive again!!!!

          • satyadeva says:

            Where is this “weird story”, please, DR?

            “normal behaviour here on sannyas news from the cynical stupids who think they are clever eh”

            Sounds just like my old headmaster…

            You’re booked for a part in the annual SN Christmas panto, by the way. No need to rehearse – just be yourself (totally).

            • satyadeva says:

              But this post of Arpana was originally addressed to Shantam, DR.

              How do you explain your apparent certainty it was meant for you (“eh”)?

              No evidence then, for your ill-informed accusations against me. You are really rather confused, aren’t you?

              Coming on here, you’ve actually done and continue to do immense harm for your cause. Do you realise this?

              Still, you have provided and continue to provide a fascinating and instructive glimpse into the mind of a particular type of fundamentalist fanatic, someone who seems to ‘need’ enemies to both look down upon, to condemn and to confirm him in the righteousness of his path.

              You’re oblivious of the fact that regarding the contributors to SN, you yourself are the victim of your own fevered imagination, fuelled as it is by the emotional charge generated by your ‘us and them’ mentality, by your determination – characteristic of all such puritanical ‘believers’ – to see moral corruption that it is your job, destiny even, to root out and eliminate.

              You don’t see me or anyone else here, it’s all your own rubbish.

              Still, despite – or because of – your self-importance and delusion, a rich source of laughs (at you, of course, rather than with you).

            • satyadeva says:

              Not “perhaps” at all, DR, the word should be ‘definitely’. But, of course, you wouldn’t want to concede that far, would you? Best to keep something in reserve, not admit anything 100%, don’t give anything away. After all, ‘there’s a war going on’, isn’t there, “eh”?!

              (PS: I suppose it’s never occurred to you that ‘Anand Newman’ might be a spoof? “Eh”?).

              And, along similar lines, yes, of course you’d say my assessment of you is imagination, it’s just what one would expect, thoroughly predictable, as usual.
              Unfortunately, I see no evidence I’m on the wrong track though.

              There’s an old saying:
              If someone calls you a horse, you can safely ignore him.
              If two people call you a horse, they’re almost certainly barking up the wrong tree.
              If three people call you a horse, well, maybe stop to consider why they might be saying this.
              If four people call you a horse, it’s time to really sit up and take notice, to ask yourself whether it’s possible that you are in fact a horse, not what you think you are.
              If five people call you a horse –
              Time to get a saddle….

              DR, check out your local stables, they might just have what you need!

            • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

              just because five fools on here call me this or that satyadeva doesnt make it so – only a complete idiot like you would think that the majority of people’s opinions must be right – are you a catholic or a muslim? there are countless millions of catholics and muslims and hindu advaitist moralists like daddyji who would condemn osho – do you think that therefore osho was in the wrong because he spoke the truth exposing the lies of all these millions of people ?

              • satyadeva says:

                DR, the saying I quoted is from a more ‘basic’ standpoint, originating from the therapy world and referring to ‘personality’ and ‘character’ issues, a person’s feeling and emotional structure.

                I and others perceive that behind the ‘spiritual’ facade you think you’re presenting here lies something rather different, perhaps even in a sense pathological, elements of which have been consistently pointed out to you as they’ve been evident in practically everything you’ve ever posted.

                You might be saying one thing, but something else entirely is coming through. And that ‘something’ is totally sabotaging any attempts you make to convince others of the rightness of your cause.

                As you’ve heard from several here, the truth is that you are doing a simply dreadful pr job for Swami R, in fact it could hardly have been handled worse. You’ve dug such a deep pit for yourself, one that’s getting deeper with every post you make.

        • Lokesh says:

          AN enquires, ‘What do you know about me so you can get into such conclusions?’
          I would say that is pretty obvious…what you write on SN. Yes, it’s all only words, but there are meanings conveyed in those words and if you contribute regulary on this site the regulars will get to know what kind of person you are…it’s not very difficult.

    • Lokesh says:

      Shanyupants scraped this one of his used chuddies….That science, which His disciples have screwed! because its bullshit.

  7. Kavita says:

    Seems there is always a carrot dangler attracting some carrot gazers , now i would rather ruminate & digest it at leisure !

    • dominic says:

      “Seems there is always a carrot dangler attracting some carrot gazers , now i would rather ruminate & digest it at leisure !”

      I shall not stoop so low as to offer a freudian interpretation.
      But this whole Carrot sects addict peep show has surely reached a climax. Who needs more root vegetable gurus with their veggie plots and greengrocers of the divine ? It is so… eeyore.
      One sees only premature emancipation behind the ads, which I find hard to swallow.
      Sadly Karrotyuga is attracting all the flies.
      Companion planting is the answer!
      I leave you with this golden poem by the zen poet Tchuzi’to Mato

      “She sits silently
      amongst the carrots
      and peas”

      Have you tried carrots, mushrooms and lady fingers zen soup?
      Just add vaita and simmer .

      • dominic says:

        “now i would rather ruminate & digest it”
        To Rumi-nate and die jesting seems the way to go.

        My theological position on Indian food is it’s definitely all raita with me, but I do love salad. Lettuce pray…

        When I was a young seminarian there was nothing i liked more than a hot naan,
        mostly they were plain of course, but some had the gift of the garb.
        Once I said to one, that she had a lovely wimple and if she could just drop her habits, god’s blessings would rain down on her.
        She said, do you think i was born again yesterday.
        I said, I’m not a reincarnationist but i have my catholic canon with me and showed her my union membership.
        She was prolaugh and after a quick hail mary we took communion. Praise the lord.

        • Lokesh says:

          I’m not 100% certain but I suspect that there is intentional innuendo at play in the above comment and by golly it is not cricket…. apart from a sticky stump.

          • dominic says:

            “I suspect that there is intentional innuendo”
            With Sannyarse there’s always a bit of in your endo…
            with leg over before wicket and stumping up.

            • satyadeva says:

              Totally agree, dominic.

              Cricket’s a really wicket game – full of short fine legs and bowling maidens over with hard new balls.

              But I expect DR’s rather wary of losing his middle stump if he plays away…

              • dominic says:

                By jove sd, i can see you’ve had your innings, some nice bowling action, and still not out. Nothing like a full toss, hitting the sweet spot and getting it through the gate..
                Down at the Oval perhaps or Mary-le-bone cricket club.

                Poor old DR, he’s in noman’s land pitching dibbly dobblies with a dodgy Ompire, while imagining he’s in the pavilion playing the Ashes.

  8. Preetam says:

    Perhaps, Osho want to bring light into a word, what basically was created destroying the Catholic Church, maybe “Enlightenment” deserves more and he likes it a social instrument as Motivation for seeking Truth. As a step to move further apart from that violent society. Indeed better not to leave the Ashram Therapists and Authorities not in that confusion being enlightened, and takes it back.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Enlightenment
    http://www.thedyinggod.com/enlightenment

  9. Fresch says:

    One thing I am wondering with enlightenment: if you are to meet a star, like for example Mick jagger, and you are aware of who he is, then you definitely get trembling legs and kind of a fan syndrome. But like in sufi traditions master can be anybody, taxi driver, gardener, shop keeper, you cannot put a label on it beforehand.

    So, I would like to hear stories of osho meeting people who were not interested in him or spirituality. Of course some one might always say that if you do not recognize Buddha or osho for his enlightenment, it’s only for the reason that you are blind. I must admit I am not sure I would be able to differ my own interpretation if I met osho as enlightened person or a taxi driver. This, of course my mind, but to be honest.

    One more thing about enlightenment is that could it also be just same kind of a dream as being soul mates with a partner? Of course you can be deeper and deeper friends. But there is same kind of dream to be happily ever after. So is enlightenment an impossible unrealistic marriage to be realized? Or could it be just friendship with the universe, and not so incredible drastic passionate love affair to take you to on the verge of death? Just sweet friendliness?

    (I am sorry about my English, I cannot use any fine language plays with what I try to express, and it’s actually my 3hrd language. so I just say what I need to tell)

    • Arpana says:

      Maybe enlightenment happens when we understand their is no such thing. :) )

    • Lokesh says:

      Fresch says, ‘One more thing about enlightenment is that could it also be just same kind of a dream as being soul mates with a partner?’
      That is a classic.

  10. Fresch says:

    And if it’s sweet friendliness, do I have to pass through so much pain and craziness? Or is it necessary to have the sweet friendliness to be deep?

    • Preetam says:

      My standpoint about and If I translate “sweet friendliness” into my terms – its Self respect caused by the realization of ones self. It leaves space for craziness and pain, if not caused by scheming.

  11. shantam prem says:

    I am sure for new age seekers from the west, it is the last life.
    They are so much fucking afraid from attachment, even as sperms they are not going to create bonding with the womb….
    So collective Nirvana for the spiritualist nerds!

    • Arpana says:

      I am sure for new age seekers from the EAST, it is the last life.
      They are so much fucking afraid from attachment, even as sperms they are not going to create bonding with the womb….
      So collective Nirvana for the spiritualist nerds!

  12. Parmartha says:

    A few things to broaden this debate. No-one should forget how those who were NOT on the list responded, who might have thought they would be.
    One was Teertha, (Paul Lowe) who I think saw himself as Osho’s successor in Pune one, certainly, and the second of course was Sheela. By all accounts they were not “amused” at all, and openly questionned the lists!
    Osho’s “joke” was on many. First those who were named. Second those who were not named but hoped to have been. Thirdly most of the (Ranch) sangha at the time who got totally caught up in it for some weeks if not months! Fourthly Sheela’s organisation who actually awarded “certificates of enlightenment” which Osho derided later.

  13. dominic says:

    “Mad-der than an Ar-mad-a of No-mad-s
    in a ready-mad-e Sa-mad-hi mad-house!”
    ~ Blackmadder, a mad deus.

    • Anand Newman says:

      I liked your extemporaneous mad song(:-. You should probably send it to bad boys sister.
      Mad is a relative term, one who look like mad for a sane society, may look like sane to the mad society.
      Mad-das

  14. shantam prem says:

    Parmartha,
    Is it difficult for you to accept that Osho simply washed all the strains of Rajneeshpuram and rebuilt his brand of spirituality totally fresh, once he landed in Pune.
    In a way, those last two years and two months period are the final foot steps; easy playful spirituality full with meditation, fun and deeper relating!

    • Parmartha says:

      A Great artist goes on developing his canvas, small changes, even big ones here and there but retaining other parts. They never go for a Tabula Rasa.
      I see no evidence that Osho’s work was not like that – developmental – and continues to develop. Pune one, Pune two, the Ranch, Pune three or ninety three. It’s still a great movie if you can get out of your own way, which sadly those who want to “take over the ashram” miss.

      • bodhi vartan says:

        You know when Osho is taking to Maneesha, he is not really talking to Maneesha. Many of the groups and ppl around him were used by him to talk to some other ppl still to come, in the far off distant future. Many were caught up in their egos considering themselves part of his plan. Many still do.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Shantam, in Pune2 Osho changed none of his philosophy (philosia) all he did was change the titles of things (including his own). What was Rajneeshism became Zen and what was Bhagwan became Osho. Basically, if you understood Rajneeshism you are now a man of Zen. How cool is that?

      (For me recently those three words, osho, sannyas, and zen, have totally interchangeable. And that has happened since reading tons of Pune2 material.)

      Also he moved from the collective to the individual. This last point can be debated because he always cheered for the individual but lets say he put the collective aside, even tho he spoke lots about communism at the same time.

  15. shantam prem says:

    Is there no website, something like
    http://www.punjajitimes.com

    Lokesh will fit quite well there..in a way he can even teach those advaitists few tricks from Pune one days.

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      when osho left his body a bunch of his disgruntled, jealous, confused and desperately lost sannyasins went off and found a new guru who allowed them to call him daddyji or papaji – which they had been longing for all along as osho never allowed them to think of him as daddy.
      poonja was a third rate advaitist guru who himself was totally jealous of osho as no one came to him – they all went to osho, a real live buddha – he started his career when osho was gone by attracting those disgruntled sannyasins and continually speaking against osho calling him a morally degraded person and more
      those sannyasins were very happy to hear all this and as poonja was as third rate as they were – they felt he was like them and they had a chance to be enlightened after all even though they had missed with osho and were jealous of osho –
      lokesh is a failed guru himself – all his criticism of osho here on sannyas news is stuff his daddyj was saying over and over – lokesh the carbon copy imitator of daddyji (looks and speaks just like him) cannot manage to be a guru and contents himself with promoting his daddy poonja here on sannyas news – which is intended for osho’s sannyasins and has become an advertising board for fake master poonja and anti osho platform for those jealous of osho

      • satyadeva says:

        Are you now claiming to be some sort of expert on “third-rate” gurus then, DR?

        How then, do you explain your present ‘attachment’ to another would-be one of that distinction?

        • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

          all the bullshit lokesh and dominc talk about osho here is directly parroted from their daddji poonja – who was just another third rate guru from the advaitist school and cannot be equated with osho as far as consciousness is concerned -

          i knew his follower dhyan david quite well in the old days before he went off to lucknow with the other wannabe gurus who were jealous of osho – now he calls himself premananda and has made a career out of guruing himself, pretending he was never an osho sannyasin – you can see his bullshit videos on you tube

          as far as rajneesh is concerned he not a ” would be one of that distinction” – he is really what he is – a sannyasin of osho, a buddha, and first rate – thats why you cant stand him – he makes you feel inadequate – how can someone be a buddha when satyadeva is not ?

          • satyadeva says:

            You know, DR, you’re talking through your backside again. The simple truth is that I find Swami R unimpressive, for the various reasons I’ve listed before. I feel ok about some teachers, not ok about others. He comes in the latter category.

            But you like to imagine it has to be down to ‘jealousy’! That’s what I mean by saying that you can’t see straight: you’re blinded by your precious beliefs, your self-importance, your anger when challenged, your resulting fantasies about others.

            • satyadeva says:

              Well, DR, unless one is significantly impressed enough by a (so-called) “buddha”, it’s highly unlikely that there’ll be any motivation to investigate him and his teaching further.

              Do you not realise that every teacher has his own ‘constituency’, as it were, a segment of humanity that resonates to him and can therefore benefit from his presence? No one master is for everyone, it’s up to us to discern who we’re attracted to, where we can grow spiritually.

              That’s a natural process, enhanced by living and learning, by experience. Your apparently outraged response is just another slice of emotion-driven ignorance, making you appear stupid – and far from the first time.

              As for Punja-ji, I have nothing much to say, he’s never figured in my life. But it’s hardly surprising to hear one teacher slagging off another, is it, as they all seem to do that? Perhaps they’re simply trying to filter out who should really be with them (and the one they’re criticising) and who shouldn’t?

          • Lokesh says:

            Dhyanraj, you obviously have not a clue about your subject matter in regards HWL Poonja. Your accusation about Poonjaji being jealous of Osho is preposterous. When I met Poonjaji he knew very little about Osho, which was in itself a bit of a surprise. Truth is Poona had found truth at the feet of the incomparable Ramana. Ramana was a spiritual giant so why become inerested in someone like Osho, who from a distance appeared like someone who had deliberately set out to discredit himself in the spirtual marketplace. What Poonjaji knew about Osho was what sannyasins told him, and therefore one culd conclude that he had an incomple picture, which did not really matter because Poonjaji was not interested in Osho.
            I must say at this juncture, Dhyanraj, you really come across as anasty piece of work on this site. In regards your relationship to Swami Rajneesh you are a terrible advertisment for the man. Your bigoted, aggressive, unintelligent stance is a sign that you are a man who is basically ignorant, which,although perhaps having nothing to do with your spiritual mentors, does nothing at all in placing them in a favorable light. Any teacher worth the title would have told you long ago that you are a very confused individual who needs to sit down for a long time in order to allow that puddle of a mind of yours can settle and allow the possibility of some basic clarity to develop.
            Dhyanraj, most of the regulars here see you as a complete fool. You’ve stolen Shantam’s crown on that level. That is a little sad, because the big differance between ou and Shantypants is that Shantam at least understands the snyasin creedo of non-seriousness and injects some wit and buffoonery into his comments. You are quite he opposite. In a nutshell…Mister Heavy Vibes. You are also fun, but in no way on a conscious level…the neighbourhood idiot As long as we know we are not like you and unable to relate to you, we know we are not completely fucked.

            • mini kang says:

              Lokesh says
              // at the feet of the incomparable Ramana. Ramana was a spiritual giant so why become inerested in someone like Osho,
              // When I met Poonjaji he knew very little about Osho,
              //because Poonjaji was not interested in Osho.

              If these are your jokes of the day, then you have a large piece of cake, all by yourself Lokesh.
              It is obvious you are sitting at the feet of Ramana. I saw the amount of cow shit everywhere in Tiru, and hindus worshipping cows, like Ramana and his cows, oops sorry, like Ramana and his devotees all chanting, who am i, who am i, who am i. This is a retarded human being.

            • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

              ha ha ha – yes lokesh – and i see that the regulars here are the complete fools – and you spouting daddyjis propaganda moralising about osho is simply stupid
              daddyji only became known due to the failed osho sannyasins who went to him after osho left the body – if they had any connection with osho and osho was their master why would they feel the need to go to some cricketer who parroted holy cow dung ?
              the truth is they had no connection with osho – when osho left his body they needed a daddy ji to stroke them and tell them they were enlightened

              • satyadeva says:

                “Failed sannyasins”! For some reason, this makes me chuckle…

                I guess it says much about the mentality of the writer: an us/them, right/wrong/ success/fail mind-set, neatly transposed to the wonderful world of spirituality, of Life Itself even. I expect he’ll be announcing the dates of the exams soon…

                Likewise, “…why would they feel the need to go to some cricketer who parroted holy cow dung ?”

                Absolutely classic, DR! You’re really very funny after all – utterly unconscious of course, but nevertheless extremely amusing..

                As I said, there’s a spot waiting for you in the annual SN Xmas panto. Actually, a couple of spots: first, as your hilariously outraged, righteously angry, ‘headmasterly’ self; second, as one half of the ‘Gruesome Twosome’ (you and mini kang).

                Beauty of it all is, you won’t need a script, you’ll just have to ‘be yourself’!

                PS: What’s your issue with cricket, by the way?

                • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

                  cricket is a silly game where people throw hard balls at each other and have to hit them out of the way before huffing and puffing running up and down collecting points
                  as daddyji liked cricket one can only conclude he was an idiot like his disciples

                • satyadeva says:

                  I take it you didn’t get in the school team then, DR?

          • dominic says:

            In the beginning i thought Swami Fu Ling Yu, what harm can he do?
            But you’re the living proof Die ‘n Rage, with your apopletic delusional fits.
            Then there’s my allergy to bullshit.
            Why did your organ grinder, Puppetji, go to Tiru & Ramana’s only to be told he wasn’t wanted?
            Still we like to laugh and you’re both figures of fun.
            Don’t think too much…..Oh, you don’t!

      • dominic says:

        Aah Clownji channeling Cloneji.
        Proof that god has a sense of humour.
        Needing attention? Feeling left out?
        Are we too clever for you?
        How would you know?

        • Lokesh says:

          Dom, the puchline produced a chuckle.
          ‘How would you know?’
          That is a very good point.

          • bodhi vartan says:

            Lokesh says:
            >> Dom, the puchline produced a chuckle.
            ‘How would you know?’
            That is a very good point.

            I am going to jump on Die ‘n Rage’s side here. Why hasn’t it been at all questioned, why is intelligence used as weapon on SN? Would one go amongst the starving and show-off his lunch. If intelligence is so great, why aren’t you all popes? … oops I meant to say … rich?

  16. shantam prem says:

    Gullibility did not end with the gulf war, when press bulletins pumped the fear of weapons of mass destruction.
    Similar people in different set of circumstances are now believing, ” taking over the ashram” theory.
    I wonder from where subjects got the thought someone wants to dethrone their prince?

  17. Prateeksha says:

    I suspect one of the purposes of all this was to create a diversion from the crimes that were being committed by those in charge.

    • Parmartha says:

      Diversionary? well maybe.
      But if those at SN, do allow Osho some devices, and consider such devices the legitimate tool of “Masters”, then it was a very great device as of those actually living on the Ranch at the time not many escaped being affected by this announcement. Those designated, those not designated, and perhaps more important all those who viewed the play but bought into it’s apparent presupposition, that enlightenment exists!

  18. mini kang says:

    Just reading Lokesh mention Osho and Punjaji or Pappaji
    and Advaita Masters of Non Duality movement, being compared to Osho, found Swami Rajneesh talking about Advaita. Very interesting to read why people are attracted to Advaita and Gurus like Punjaji.

    question :
    how do you understand the state of two in the world ?
    how do you understand duality ? why advaita ?

    swami rajneesh :
    duality is the very beauty of life
    it is the balance and harmony of life
    the two gives you an opportunity to live
    the two gives you this body mind…it gives you this duality
    the male and the female…the yes and the no…the do and the do not…
    all the opposites are a beautiful opportunity for life
    i am not against duality
    there are many people who will say…
    find the non dual in you…because the non dual is the truth
    but remember perfectly well that duality is the opportunity for life
    and there is nothing ugly about duality
    understand the duality of life
    understand this vast experience of this world
    understand this duality…it creates harmony
    how to understand the harmony between the two ?
    how to find the balance within the opposites ?
    you become infinitely richer
    if you had just one…it would have no meaning in itself
    but if you have two
    learning the balance of the two
    you find the third
    forget about two…find the third !

    a wise person does not deny the opposites
    he transcends them with understanding
    he finds the golden mean…he finds the balance
    and then there is no duality
    but a trimurti…three
    the one that transcends the two

    respect duality…live your duality totally
    live so totally that by living it you transcend it
    it is very important this particular question
    because there is a great group of teachers
    who keep denying the opposites
    they say you are living in a dream
    you are living in illusion
    you are living in the body
    you are living in the mind…
    they do not understand that you need to live !

    what about living totally ?
    then the mind disappears
    living totally…this duality becomes one

    understand duality and the beauty of life
    then it is not duality but a great celebration…a great experience
    this movement called advaita
    they deny the two
    they say there is only one…only this is the truth
    they say duality is dragging you down into the world…
    they do not know how to live their lives !
    the one cannot be supported without the two…
    without this two the one is not able to live…
    so this advaita movement is very puristic…very perfect…
    but it is totally abstract…it has no reality in the world

    truth is lived in the world
    you need to live in the world so deeply so you transcend duality
    and there is nothing ugly about transcendence
    it does not deny the opposite
    it accepts the opposites totally and understands the middle path
    hence you have a body and you have a no body
    you have life and you have truth
    balance truth with life
    understand life and the truth that it contains within it
    understand body and the being…matter and spirit
    find the balance and enjoy both the worlds

    this is what osho says…this very place the lotus paradise…
    within this world is the garden of eden
    within this world is heaven hidden
    you have to understand life itself so deeply
    that you understand that heaven is here now
    once you understand this you are living in paradise
    because there is nothing more than life itself
    and this duality has been given to you as a gift from existence
    to experiment and learn and live

    understand this duality
    feel a deep gratitude towards existence
    a deep acceptance of yourself the way you are
    and yet realising that contained within you is a hidden treasure
    then you will have no guilt and misery while you are living in this world
    and this world and everything becomes a blessing…hmmm?

    the non dual movement of advaita is egoistic puristic…utopian
    it is lifeless…dead…with no heart beat…no reality…
    only those who are egoistic and perfectionists are attracted to advaita
    these perfectionist are torture to themselves and others…
    always condemning and judging others…
    like dead…closed minded moralists teachers

    the advaita movement is simply intellectual masterbation…
    and attracts the egoist and perfectionist
    who wants a perfect answer…to truth…
    a solution that fulfills the ego of the mind…
    that this is non dual…that this is dual…that this is oneness…
    just perfect bullshit !!

    these dead people are totally blind
    as they cannot see that the balance of the opposite
    creates the trimurti…the third…advaita…non duality !

    advaita is non dual…but this oneness that non dual
    is actually the third way…
    without the balance of the two…the one cannot exist…
    the balance between opposites creates this non duality…
    but advaita denies the opposites…condems it as duality !!

    this is why there are egoists…and it feels good to deny…
    that they are superior in their path of non duality…

    you can see particularly germans and europeans are attracted to advaita…
    they seek perfect answers that are lifeless…dead
    like trophies…like a framed pinned butterfly…
    pinned on their walls like spiritual decorations…
    just rubbish…mumbo jumbo spiritual talk…very ego fulfilling…

    • Lokesh says:

      Mini, did Rajneesh also inform you that self-enquiry, Advaita, was the essence of how Osho claimed to have attained enlightenment? Maybe not, as it would be hard to fit in with and I quote, ‘the advaita movement is simply intellectual masterbation…
      and attracts the egoist and perfectionist
      who wants a perfect answer…to truth…
      a solution that fulfills the ego of the mind…
      that this is non dual…that this is dual…that this is oneness…
      just perfect bullshit !!’
      Well, I’m sure he’ll somehow manage to white wash it over with some more empty talk.

      • Lokesh says:

        For the mind that has gained skill in concentration, Self-enquiry becomes comparatively easy. It is by ceaseless enquiry that the thoughts are destroyed and the Self realized – the plenary Reality in which there is not even the ′I′ thought, the experience which is referred to as “Silence”.
        This, in substance, is Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi′s teaching in Nan Yar (Who am I?).

        • mini kang says:

          These teachings and quotation sounds very very intellectual, and so boring and heavy. I am giving this passage you quoted to Swami Rajneesh and will see his answer today.
          Have you read Swami Rajneesh brilliant book, i to i ?? He was discussing Ramana, and the question of who am i, will wake you up. His insights are sharper than any boring Ramana, who lived like a typical indian guru type of teacher.
          Read i to i and you will be understand what i mean by brilliant insights.
          http://www.ozenrajneesh.com/ozenrajneesh/books.html

          • dominic says:

            By jingo, it’s all gone arse over t*t again.
            It’s sannyas fight club.
            It’s a c**k size contest.
            It’s shoot out at the “I’m ok, you’re not ok” corral.
            The brown shirts and tongues are back.
            And what’s that sound ‘swoosh, swoosh’.
            With all this master baiting surely some revelation,
            some second coming is close at hand….
            Oh no….It’s Cunninglunghis man.

      • mini kang says:

        And we also read that Osho said that Ramana was a third rate mystic. I have seen his photos living in the past style hindu guru. Looks like an intellectual. With all dead people around him, all asking, who am i ! What a joke this Ramana is. I am sure you fit sitting next to his photo. You will look very spiritual and concentrate on who am i, who am i, who am i, who am i, and find Lokesh who is also trying to be a guru. But failed to attract even a fly. I have been to Tiru, dirty with rubbish and shit everywhere, and old sad people all looking spiritual walking around their holy mountain. What holy mountain ?? It is a small hill.

        • satyadeva says:

          Mini Kang, while, as I said, I’m not drawn to advaita and not specially attracted to Ramana Maharshi, I recognise he was a great master who opened many to the truth of themselves.

          But his way would appear to demand a certain readiness, a certain maturity, which most people of your apparent age (in your 20′s?) simply have not acquired. And you certainly haven’t, judging by your ignorantly disparaging remarks.

          Mini, please find the humility to recognise that you know nothing.

          • mini kang says:

            Yes i know nothing ! There is nothing to know, but to live, dance and celebrate life.
            Yes i am not old and fossilized, intellectual like Ramana and his devotees all chanting Who am I, Who am I, and waiting to die asking this question. the last hope before going to their graves.
            Socrates said, I know that i know nothing at all !!

            • satyadeva says:

              I would think though, mini, that there’s a world of difference between your ‘not knowing’ and that of Socrates.

              Yours would appear to be that of pure ignorance, his is informed by several decades of rich inner and outer experience.

          • mini kang says:

            Satya Deva, Are you against young people ? Sounds like you are an old person who feels misunderstood and not respected.
            You think all young people are immature ?? Osho was enlightened at 21 years. You would also find him young ??
            All seekers are young, young physically or young at heart. I am 32 and have spent 8 years on the path, and am lucky to have met Swami Rajneesh, who resonates with all young sannyasins, and is not boring and stiff like Ramana in his underwear, looking like a spiritual saint, waiting for indian masses to accept him as a saint. Yes Ramana felt and looked like some dead saint, holy, boring and unattractive to seekers. Tiru feels like a dead place for people to go to before they die, and concentrate, Who Am I, they must have not lived to have even a taste of life !

            • satyadeva says:

              What I’m criticising in you, mini kang, is the way you are trashing one of the world’s great masters. I’ll say it again, it merely demonstrates your immaturity.

              If you’re happy enough with what you’re up to, fine, why should I have a problem with that or with you?

              But don’t imagine that it qualifies you to condemn the likes of Ramana, unless you wish to broadcast your ignorance.

              Yes, Osho was just 21 – the exception proves the rule, which is that people usually need to ‘live a little’, to ripen into a certain ‘spiritual readiness’. You’re 32, but apparently haven’t quite got through this first stage yet. No problem, many are similar, but I suggest you see that before you make such a sweeping judgment about another teacher.

              • mini kang says:

                Satya Deva, Even Osho trashed Ramana as a third rate teacher.
                To you. Ramana may be a world great master, but to me he is a old boring hindu style saint, and had a retarded serious approach to truth. Just intellectual enquiry, attracting intellectuals and egoists. All looking and feeling like saints and holy seekers.
                Who Am i ? Oh my God, who has the time to chant this boring Who am I ?? Must be a really dead person.
                Why not Cøca Cola Coco Cola…it is at least fizzy and refreshing in hot india.
                As Swami Rajneesh says, good to chant Who am I when you are in the grave, the best mantra, in the grave !

                • satyadeva says:

                  And yet again you expose the shallowness of the immature, mini kang.

                  You haven’t gathered enough life experience, are not ‘seasoned’ enough, simply not ‘ready’, if you can’t see the value and profundity of Ramana and his way.

                  But instead of owning that simple fact you choose to denigrate the man and his teaching, deeming he’s ‘unworthy’ of you rather than the other way round, ie that it’s you who are ‘unworthy’ (meaning not yet ready) of him.

                • dominic says:

                  “who has the time to chant this boring Who am I ?? Must be a really dead person.
                  Why not Cøca Cola Coco Cola…it is at least fizzy and refreshing in hot india.”

                  Have you tried a Ramana coke?
                  Actually minikang, i hate to say it, when it’s so much fun to fight, but you’re not wrong with everything and i like a badass.
                  The spriritual bypass hamster wheel of advaita can be anti-life.
                  It is only a hill, with a superiority complex.
                  Tiru is a bit smelly.
                  Ramana is conservative, indian tradition.
                  Shows you have intelligence and i like your fiery expression …chilli kang, mexikang.
                  No gurus should be offlimits from some bashing, no matter how revered.
                  I think osho had “narcisstic personality disorder” based on early life issues (like many gurus seems to me).
                  Need for adulation, manipulative, lacking in empathy at times, etc. all rationalised away of course by the faithful and Egyptians (in de Nile)
                  But all these are only partial truths.
                  Osho was also very gifted. Ramana carried great inner peace.
                  Of course this is not first hand experience, just my impression.
                  The sannyas influence has certainly enlivened the awakening, non-duality scene, which is large and varied.
                  Satori or enlightenment intensives were a big part of the sannyas offering, and often regarded as advanced and mindblowing in a more subtle way.
                  Same question, who am i? or who is in?.
                  There are ‘facts’/ observations and then interpretations. It all gets a bit muddled sometimes, especially if it’s second-hand.
                  Maybe you are from asian culture and also many russian/east europeans in your posse. Just guessing. More vulnerable, blind belief in, and need for authoritarian ‘charismatic’ leadership, perhaps.
                  Though no theory could ever explain Dhyanrage. There’s always one.

            • Lokesh says:

              ‘One of the greatest enlightened men was Raman Maharshi, in South India, on the mountain of Arunachal. He was not a man of many words; he was not very educated either. He was only seventeen when he escaped into the mountains in search of himself. He was a very silent man, and people used to go particularly to have a taste of his silence.’ OSHO

              • mini kang says:

                Good Lokesh,
                Perfect Master for you, So please become uneducated, stop all your intellectual debates, and escape to some mountain, perfect for you. Arunachal hill with all sacred cows and Who Am i seekers, suit you perfectly.But are you simple like Ramana living in 1940′s India ?? Stop quoting Osho, and justifying yourself about the retarded qualities of Ramana and Punjaji or your Papaji father figure.

              • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

                RAMAN MAHARSHI is a mystic of the highest quality, but a master of the lowest quality. And you have to understand that to be a mystic is one thing; to be a master is totally different.

                Out of a thousand mystics, perhaps one is a master. Nine hundred and ninety-nine decide to remain silent — seeing the difficulty, that whatever they have realized is impossible to convey in any possible way to others; seeing that not only is it difficult to convey, it is bound to be misunderstood too.

                Naturally, one who has arrived to the ultimate peak of consciousness will most probably decide not to bother with the world anymore. He has suffered for hundreds of lives living with these miserable people, living with all kinds of misunderstandings, groping in the dark and finding nothing. And these blind people who have never seen the light all believe they know what light is.

                From ancient days, a philosopher has been defined as a man who is blind, in a house that is completely dark, searching for a black cat which is not there.

                And the search goes on….

                After a long, long, tedious journey, someone has come to the sunlit peak of relaxation, for the first time is at ease with existence, and decides not to get involved with all kinds of blind people, prejudiced people, deaf people who are going to misunderstand you, who are going to misinterpret you, who are going to crucify you, who are going to poison you, who are going to do every nonsense that is possible against you. Why bother?

                You cannot blame those nine hundred and ninety-nine mystics who decide to remain silent. It is not their responsibility, it is not their commitment. They owe nothing to the world; why should they get unnecessarily into the mess, into the madhouse the world is?

                Raman Maharshi remained in his cave in the mountains of Arunachal his whole life, unconcerned with the world. He simply tired of it. Naturally, nobody is against him.

                He never says anything against any superstition, against any belief that is based on lies. He never criticizes any religion, any politics. He is not a revolutionary. He is not interested in transforming human beings, creating a better society.

                He is not even a little bit interested to share his experience. He is just like a well — if you are thirsty, you will have to find the way, you will have to find a bucket, you will have to find a rope, you will have to reach the water. The water is not interested in you or in your thirst.

                Naturally there is nobody who will criticize Raman Maharshi. He lived silently, peacefully — not against any vested interest, not in any way proposing a new man, a new humanity. He is fulfilled and contented; he is finished with the world

                Osho: Sermons in Stones, Chapter 1

          • frank says:

            ah yes,i heard about brian rajneeshs trip to tiruvanamali.
            apparently,he got into a fracas with an american called ishi in the german bakery,there.
            rajneesh shouted at him and threatened to get him deported.
            and when the guy wasn’t cowed,and told him,and brains posse of 20 to “fuck off and die”, then brian threatened to use black magic on him.
            brian,the great disciple failed to even get lesson one by osho–
            if they shoot black magic at you,dont fire it back…..
            and brian rajneesh`s black magic is even worse than his ham acting.
            the guy ishi is still around fit and healthy and rajneesh has had a heart attack and is suffering from erectile disfunction.
            plus,he now has dhyanrage as his chief disciple.
            !?!?

            of course you will take this as another attack by a “jealous”"ego”who cant stand the fact that some guy imitating osho (poorly) is enlightened and I am not.
            truth is,i find the whole story of the brian cult deeply fascinating in a car-crash kind of way.
            how on earth do people get themselves into such lunacy?
            like dominic said.
            I suppose every monkey chained to his master must be getting some bananas somewhere.

            • mini kang says:

              The facts are different, as i was there in Tiru. Ishi was going to commit suicide when Swami Rajneesh met him in manali. Ishi was depressed and frustrated without any money or food. Swami Rajneesh helped him financially and took care of him.
              Swami Rajneesh Ishi’s girlfriend came and exposed Ishi for physically abusing and beating her violently. She lost her child due to Ishi and his abuse. This exposure angered Ishi, and he was even more upset when Swami Rajneesh offered and saved his girlfriend from more physical abuse. Ishi is a frustrated violent person, and we were all witness to his fit of rage and violence. It was a lesson for us all to see Swami Rajneesh actions to calm and settle Ishi.

              • frank says:

                and what about the guys like vinod singh and the others who want their investment in the failed goa project back?
                they say that they have been lied to and ripped off for crores and crores of rupees by rajneesh
                they are also wife-beating baby-killers,i suppose?

                • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

                  as no one has been ripped off for crores and crores of rupees frank you comment simply shows your willingness to engage in lying propaganda

                • satyadeva says:

                  I wonder what one of the people concerned was making such a fuss about at Swami R’s site then (or was it at his Facebook site?), DR?

                  Quite nauseating, by the way, the contemptuous disdain with which ‘your people’ treated him. They seemed a right bunch of self-righteous, pseudo-spiritual, exploitative airheads.

                  Go on, give us some more spin about that sorry episode.

          • Arpana says:

            listen Roxxanne maybe realise that young age doesn’t make you necessarily wiser. it can also make you dead.. always criticising people for being old as if it is a curse or something..

  19. Preetam says:

    Metaphorical Meditation or “Enlightenment” would have a fruitful effect, in case that it breaks the scarlet red leather strap…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

    …this perhaps would open Doors into a new Era.

  20. Fresch says:

    Well, some times sweet friendliness is not the right thing…. What a mad house..

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Fresch says:
      >> What a mad house..

      Only to those who identify with the mind. To the rest it’s just funny. I haven’ stopped laughing for months. hahahahahahaha

  21. Parmartha says:

    I see here some misidentification of Martyn with Dominic, some contributors taking them for the same person.
    As an Editor of SN, and someone who knows them both, may I affirm there is duality. They are two distinct persons, and live in different parts of the world.

  22. Anand Newman says:

    Arpana says

    “You really believe that all Osho’s effort was about creating a world full of clones of you”.

    Who is a carbon copy in this forum. Everyone is a GURU ( gee you are you). At the same time, aren’t we all are deconditioned from things like religion, race, cast, creed, guru(dom), disciple(dum), etc. etc..And if that can happen to bunch of us here , it can happen to million others but in their own way. After having an association with Osho for long , if some one thinks clones will come out of Osho’s work, they are missing something. Or am I missing something?

    • Arpana says:

      This was aimed at Shantam, who is a fundamentalist, conservative religion clone, and sees himself as the template against which all western sannyasins are measured and fail.

    • Lokesh says:

      A Newman enquires, ‘am I missing something?’
      Ehm…. yes….probably. Why do you ask?

  23. Fresch says:

    dear swami satyam dhyanraj and mini kang,

    I can understand it that you do not like it that some sanyasins or ex sanyasins want to share about their other mentors or masters. Especially for my personal reasons i understand because one of my dear ex love partner few years ago left me because I refused to leave osho for an other master/mentor/teacher.

    However, what i saw about my self then in that soup was that it was not really him, it was me, something really fanatic about me about osho, not natural about me, came to surface. I am not leaving osho, of course, but i saw my own fanatic mind, the mind i wanted to leave. I share this because I try to be personal.

    Also, I have practiced who am I or who is in – and I do not like it either, at least repeating it for days, but in some moments it really does work for me too. at least I do not see any reason to be aggressive with meditations methods, that or any other, people practice.. what could be reason for you being so agressive about what people practice?

    However, what i am interested in that you make all this advertisements about your mentor, you both come here really aggressively. You do not take any feedback, you do not hear. I mean hello. Sounds like you try to achieve something attacking people here, especially Lokesh? What? What on earth would be your victory?

    Also, and more important, you are not talking or answering questions about your self. And your own motives and behaviour. So, that is cheap. I always like to share about my own experience, also my pitfalls and wrong doings, my own misinterpretations or my unawareness. Why? To bring more light to life. More fun. Not hysterical fun.
    To be light to my self. How about you?

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      did you miss my response to you fresch in the last sannyas news topic ? – i shared with you a couple of days of my life

      as far as agression goes – perhaps you have not noticed the ugliness from lokesh, dominc and frank towards osho and rajneesh – and lokeshs advertisement of cricketing cow guru poppaji who continually spoke against osho –
      why should i allow such agression masked as clever monkey humour without speaking out in support of my master osho and rajneesh, oshos devotee ?

      my motive you want to know is to support the buddhas who are courageous enough to share their energy – today rajneesh is the living buddha who is available and can help oshos sannyasins to transformation – and the exsannyasins here on sannyas news are the living proof why most enlightened ones never bother to try to engage with and help people

      • satyadeva says:

        As I said, a part in the SN Xmas panto awaits, DR.

        You’ll play a self-righteous, self-important, po-faced fundamentalist-type missionary headmaster who can’t stop repeating himself, thereby boring everyone rigid. Catchphrase: “hahahahahaha eh?”

        And what’s far worse, who can’t stand cricket!

        • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

          you like cricket ? a competitive ball game ? that makes you look very small satyadeva – do you also like football and tennis ? – ha ha ha ha ha ha
          eh? eh? ha ha ha ha ha – millions of people watching endless meaningless games to distract themselves from themselves – who won today who lost ? ha ha ha ha ha ha – eh satyadeva

          • satyadeva says:

            Well, there’s a nice piece of small-minded bigotry from the headmaster missionary! Perhaps you suffered at the hands of some stupid P. E. teacher at school and/or perhaps your attitude is merely the self-defence of the uninterested or ‘unable’.

            But yes, DR, all three, totalling many years of playing, some of the best times of my life in fact. Indeed, having those skills also helped to get me through several very difficult periods, they were a kind of therapy. Either as an individual or part of a team, they’ve enriched my life, thankfully.

            And have you never experienced the sheer wonder of seeing people perform with great skill, responding with body and mind according to the ever-changing situation before them? Or in a team, co-ordinating movements and strategies?

            All sports can naturally be meditative as well as therapeutic or simply beneficial physical practices by the way, however competitive they are. You’ve missed something if you haven’t found some similar activity to enjoy, especially outdoors. And I’d say the same goes for involvement in and/or appreciation for arts, crafts.

            By the way, if you’re buying into the whole ‘anti-competitive’ ethos, well, you might believe that about sports, but you seem extremely, aggressively, insultingly competitive about various aspects of ‘spirituality’, you create arguments here whenever you come, ffs!

            Just another example of unconsciousness, of a wish to feel ‘superior’?

      • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

        do you think i am bothered about persona? am i dalai lama ? no satyadeva i dont give a toss about your appreciation of persona or being nice to those who try to pull down osho to their ignorant level
        nor am i interested in being important – for what would i do with personal importance ? that may be a motive of some people here – being clever so the other cleverdicks will say “how clever” –

        other people besides you who comment will be reading this and the anti osho propaganda should be challenged – particularly on a forum that advertises itself as being for oshos sannyasins but has been taken over by those who think its clever to rubbish osho and his sannyasins

        • satyadeva says:

          DR, it’s not Osho that’s being challenged, it’s YOU – ok, let’s call it your ‘persona’ – and your version of ‘how sannyasins should be’.

          I and others have told you why, have given you plenty of honest feedback, and you have singularly utterly failed to win over anyone.

          You’ve failed, ok?

          Get that into your head:

          Coming here, you’ve failed.

          • satyadeva says:

            No, DR, it’s simple common sense, despite your wish to cloud the issue with more misplaced pejoratives.
            Presumably, you wish to influence opinion by posting stuff here, right? You have certainly done that – but not exactly how you’d have chosen, I imagine.

            Alternatively, why have you come here then – to fail?!

            If so, congratulations, you’re a success!

            May I also remind you of your ludicrously misplaced term, “failed sannyasins”, which you’ve used more than once in your diatribes here, including today.

            I suggest you’re revealing yourself to be an unintelligent, bigoted hypocrite, DR.

    • Lokesh says:

      Fresch, very sweet and candid comment. Much appreciated.
      The thing about self-enquiry is that it is not for everyone. Most seekers wish for complex systems, explanations etc. Advaita cuts through all that. On one hand it is so simple that it is difficult to understand, on the other hand it is not simply a question of asking oneself ‘who am I?’.
      Osho spoke in some detail about how self-enquiry brought him to the brink, but for the most part he spoke in layman’s terms. One of the early and most popular groups in Poona One was Enlightenment Intensive. In retrospect I realize it was a beginners introduction to self-enquiry. I never participated in the group other than in the role of group leader assistant. Truth be told, Osho generally put me in tough confrontational groups in the early days…much needed to break down the emotional armour I’d built up during my childhood in fifties Glasgow. Once I’d been softened up Osho sent me into various meditation groups, Zazen etc.
      My wife spent time with Ponjaji in Lucknow, as did a number of good friends. When she returned to Ibiza after a five month trip in India, including groups in Poona Two, she was positively glowing and eventually convinced a resitant me to visit Luknow. I feel fortunate that I did.
      Poonjaji was a seasoned teacher who promptly walloped me with a hefty zen stick and introduced me into Advaita. I can’t imagine how it is to try and understand the teaching without a veteran to show you the ropes, because I have no experience of it. So, how I see it is that it is a massive boon to have an experienced practitioner to show one the ropes. Advaita is not for the faint-heated. I reckon the most important quality needed to proceed in the right direction is to be earnest.
      I find Ramana to be an inspiration, in the sense that he never veered from the truth and was a man of impeccable character. When I see young people, like Mini, slagging off one of the greatest sages of the Twentieth Century it saddens me somewhat, because he was an exceptionally beautiful man and I know she only does this through ignorance. I was once like her in certain ways. A reactionary hippy, who at one point in the sixties thought it was good counsel to mistrust anyone over thirty, which in retrospect sounds like a very limiting framewaork to operate from. Point is, life is the greatest of teachers and just like reggae superstar Jimmy Cliff sang back in the day, ‘The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all.’

      • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

        another moralistic stance from lokesh – ramana who he never met is a man of impeccable character ! and character has nothing to do with the search for truth or with enlightenment but is just a superficial phenomenon – a society thing – ramana is being slagged off due to your slagging off of osho and rajneesh lokesh – a slap for a slap – otherwise why would we have any interest in ramana or daddyji at all when we have osho ? ramana had his cow for a disciple and daddyji had lokesh – i think ramana was the more fortunate one

    • Arpana says:

      I am liking your contributions a lot Fresch.
      (n_n)

    • satyadeva says:

      Nice post, Fresch. A breath of fresch air in fact….

  24. mini kang says:

    Lokesh said :
    // For the mind that has gained skill in concentration, Self-enquiry becomes comparatively easy. It is by ceaseless enquiry that the thoughts are destroyed and the Self realized – the plenary Reality in which there is not even the ′I′ thought, the experience which is referred to as “Silence”.
This, in substance, is Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi′s teaching in Nan Yar (Who am I?). //

    Without mentioning Ramana’s name,
    we asked Swami Rajneesh what was his view about this statement :

    “ For the mind that has gained skill in concentration, self enquiry becomes comparatively easy. It is by ceaseless enquiry that thoughts are destroyed and the self realized “

    swami rajneesh laughed and said :
    seems this person is completely retarded…
    he simply has no clue about meditation…

    concentration is not meditation…but pointed focused thoughts…
    concentration is opposite to meditation…
    a peaked state of relaxed awareness…
    in a state of innocence and openness…an expansion of being…

    concentration is pointed…focused…a tense state
    meditation is expansion…relaxed…a relaxed state
    a deep let go…and in the state of deep let go…relaxed…
    overflowing energy…the state of awareness happens…naturally

    concentration closes the person…
    the person who practices and creates skill in concentration
    becomes closed…a crystalized ego is created around him…
    meditation is not cultivated by ceaseless enquiry !!
    ceaseless concentration will create a mad insane person…neurosis

    you say “thoughts are destroyed “
    ma ma mia…why destroy a shadow ??
    seems like a very violent person…destroying thoughts !!
    just create a detached space between mind and the witness…
    just disengage with the mind…and thoughts simply evaporate…
    my god…really…what a retarded statement…
    that one has to destroy thoughts…
    it is simply ignorance…that fights thoughts…as if they are real…
    childish statement…
    and destroying thoughts are acts of the mind itself…
    to feel more egoistic that thoughts can be destroyed…

    it is like fighting with your shadow…
    and imagine you are destroying them…
    absurd…just relax and realise that they are shadows…
    just move aside !!

    “ and you say the self is realized “
    there is no self to realize…when one attains the self disappears
    and realisation happens as no self…
    but a pure state of awareness…
    not even aware of awareness…just a pure state…

    for example…
    a candle flame is light…it is like awareness…
    the flame is not creating awareness…it is simply its nature…
    hence the candle is not aware of darkness…
    it is not even aware of light…

    for to perceive darkness one needs to seperate themselves from light…
    that would create duality…darkness and light…you see ??
    light is simply light…

    hence awareness is not aware of anything…but itself…
    and hence there is no self to realize…
    but to live and experience this mystery and joy…
    it is an explosion…into nothingness…
    no self…nothing to realize…
    but realization happens…

    Then we told Swami Rajneesh,
    that these words were from Ramana Maharishi book Who Am I,
    and he was surprised, and laughed again at the absurdity.
    Says “ the poor old man Ramana was simply trying to convince retarded hindu pundit minds. Ramana himself became like them, trying to speak their language, he became acknowledged as a saint. That Ramana was just raw and did not have clarity of speech or words, and his actions were just mechanical out of old habits. He had no brilliance, just a raw teacher.
    That was the way of gurus of the past, and Ramana had no quality or charisma, just acceptance by blind followers, who were searching for truth intellectually. It is a pity as Ramana had the experience of Samadhi but his journey was not complete, and Samadhi was the first step.

    We were all surprised at the question, and his answers and his views about Ramana, as he has also spoken about Who Am I, in his book I to I
    We have to thank you Lokesh for this quote,
    it was beautiful touching moments for us all here to listen to Swami Rajneesh.

    • mini kang says:

      No comments from Lokesh and other wise people about the dicetion of Ramana by Swami Rajneesh ?? My my, such giant intellectuals have become silent here. Why not try and cut up his words !
      i am sure even Ramana would have listened to Swami Rajneesh with admiration.

    • satyadeva says:

      It’s really just a question of words and perhaps something was lost in translation?

      ‘looking while being’ for concentrating

      ‘dissolve’ for destroy

      ‘Self’ for self

      Swami R is just stating what we’ve all heard before, mini k. You haven’t, therefore it sounds ‘special’ to you.

      • mini kang says:

        Finally Satya Deva has become the translator for Ramana.
        ” Dissolve for Destroy ” et al…
        Now Lokesh should also be afraid of his quotes, as Satya Deva is now the official translator and PR clarifying for Ramana’s words.

    • Lokesh says:

      Mini, you are mistaken. These are not my words, but they are the words of Ramana.’ For the mind that has gained skill in concentration, Self-enquiry becomes comparatively easy. It is by ceaseless enquiry that the thoughts are destroyed and the Self realized – the plenary Reality in which there is not even the ′I′ thought, the experience which is referred to as “Silence”.
This, in substance, is Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi′s teaching in Nan Yar (Who am I?). ‘
      Swami Rajneesh describes then as, and I quote, ‘seems this person is completely retarded…
      he simply has no clue about meditation’
      Well, every one is entitled to their opinion.
      Swami rajneesh goes on to inform us that, ‘concentration is not meditation’,
      Mini, on this platform that hardly comes as news, seeing as how that is something elementary that Osho often made very clear to those who were not already aware of something so obvious. I didn’t read further because most of the swami’s words come across like recycled Osho speak and I prefer Osho’s deliver system because he was a good lecturer. I rarely listen to Osho discourses, having attended a couple of thousand of them I suppose I ODed.

      • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

        as its obvious to you lokesh that “concentration is not meditation” why present your guru ramanas silly statement “For the mind that has gained skill in concentration, Self-enquiry becomes comparatively easy” as if its something of value ?

  25. mini kang says:

    From Swami Rajneesh book, I to I

    who am i_who am i_
becomes just an intellectual enquiry

    the mind cannot transcend itself _

    the mind has no window into the state of no mind _
    has no bridge towards the unknown _ the unknowable
    the mind only knows the past _

    what it perceives and experiences
 through thoughts and emotions _
    the whole enquiry of who am i _ is simply meaningless _
    you are not the body _
    you are not the mind _
    you are not the emotion _

    the i is a hall of mirrors _
    
there is no real thing as i _

    but a collection and identification
    with past thoughts and emotions _
    which collectively become the mind _

    and creates a false understanding _
    
that this is who i am _
    there is no reality to the i _ just your identification _
    this identification makes it appear to be real _
    you can never drop the i _

    just understand that identification creates the false i _
    simply drop identification _
    detach yourself _
observe _
watch _
    and the i disappears into smoke _

    watching silently _ no thoughts _
    with no judgments simply watching _

    the knack of watchfulness grows stronger _
    
and this separates you _ from attachment _
    from identification with the i _
    watchfulness creates a gap _
    
creates a certain distance and space _

    from this false identification of the mind _ with the i _
    you can never drop the i _ just disengage _

    drop identification _ create watchfulness _

    • satyadeva says:

      Swami R doesn’t appear to have experienced an enlightenment intensive.

      Btw, mini kang, do you think this stuff is ‘new’?

      • satyadeva says:

        What’s this, mini kang, another attempt to somehow score a point when all else has failed?

        Let me tell you once again:

        I have no interest in Swami R, I’m not attracted to him, in fact the opposite is the case.

        And your and DR’s efforts here have been counter-productive, neither of you have impressed me or, it seems, anyone else, as examples of anything except that of two naive, self-important missionaries.

        I strongly suggest you go away and do something more productive.

        • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

          ha ha ha ha ha – for someone who claims to have no interest in swami rajneesh you cant resist commenting over and over again to try and belittle him can you satyadeva –
          your disrespect to rajneesh is an insult to osho and shows that you have no relationship with osho any longer – if you ever did other than as a student of bogus therapies

          what business is it of yours to suggest sannyasins to go away from here and do something more productive ? do you imagine you are being productive commenting here with your endless negativity? –
          you could be watching the football game on telly couldnt you with the other dummies? goaaall !!! ha ha ha

          if you have no interest in oshos sannyasins commenting here then there is no need for you to participate is there ?

          any way you have no truth or understanding of your own to share obviously –
          just it seems a need to try and mask your inferiority in consciousness by saying “oh we heard it all before” or “i know it all and you are too young to know”

          • satyadeva says:

            Well done, DR. In a single post you’ve demonstrated precisely why you have failed to convince anyone here either of your own worth as a would-be ‘spiritual missionary’ or of the value of your current guru as a teacher. A rare feat indeed, sir, congratulations!

            My God, how enraged you become when someone just isn’t as convinced as you are about your precious Swami R. What you like to term “disrespect” to him is even “an insult to Osho”, is it? Please show me exactly where and how this has been achieved, apart from inside your own fevered imagination, Mr Fundamentalist Fanatic.

            Also, I’d like to hear why you think you’re qualified to pronounce on anyone’s “relationship with Osho”. Because for me, all I hear are noises coming from the vicinity of your metaphorical backside.

            What business is it of mine to dare to suggest your mini pal simply gives up posting here? What business is it of yours, Mr Authoritarian, to suggest that’s no business of mine? This is a free forum and I call it how I see it. If you interpret my or anyone else’s honest response as “negativity” then that’s your problem, not mine.

            And it really is your problem as if it’s not obvious to you by now that both of you are wasting your time and energy here then you must be pretty damn thick, blinded by righteous rage – however expert you think you are on who’s ‘highly conscious’ and who isn’t. A truly laughable scenario.

            If you don’t like my or anyone else’s genuine responses, tough. If you don’t want to risk criticism or rejection, then don’t post at SN. Or do you imagine that you’re beyond criticism?

            I repeat, I say we’ve heard Swami R’s ‘Ramana’ response before, many times before, in fact, from various sources. He’s saying nothing original, ok?

            I also repeat that your little mini k is wasting her time if she imagines she’s any sort of inspiration to the readers and posters at SN. Although her naivete and inexperience are blindingly obvious, they wouldn’t necessarily be a ‘problem’ if she didn’t feel an overwhelming need, like you, to ‘convert’ people to what you believe to be ‘the true way’.

            You come across as a couple of foolish missionaries, full of misplaced arrogance, guaranteed to get people’s backs up. The very least one can say is that you approach your task – self-chosen (or set by another, I wonder?) – with what buddhists would term a notable lack of ‘skill’. You’re like a couple of enraged bulls clumsily trampling through a proverbial china shop.

            I honestly believe, DR, that at this stage it might well be in your best interests to enrol in a few of what you like to call “bogus therapies” , if only to begin to learn to see yourself as others see you. And to get to the roots of your evident pathology.

            (Well, thank Christ that’s over – let’s see now, when’s the football start?).

        • mini kang says:

          Wow, Satya Deva ” strongly suggests that i go away and do something more productive ”
          Very arrogant, bullying a 32 year young woman sannyasin. Are you my Master to order me ??
          You simply do not have any answers and do not even know how to respond to a suggestion, but answer in threatening abusive manner. Each comment you put here shows your arrogance.
          maybe you should go away and do something productive, like record your statements and listen to what you have to say. Got my advice ?

          • satyadeva says:

            Do you know the difference between a suggestion and an order?

            Find out before you make such an unintelligent comment.

            Do you know why I suggest you forget about posting here?

            Because you are not achieving anything.

            I suggest you meditate on that today (that’s an order, by the way).

            • satyadeva says:

              And another thing, mini:

              Yesterday, you tried to present yourself as somewhat ‘mature’, as rather experienced, pointing out you’re 32 and a ‘seeker’ for 8 years.

              Now today, it seems as if you’re trying to use your age as a sort of token of vulnerability:
              “Very arrogant, bullying a 32 year young woman sannyasin. Are you my Master to order me ??”

              Make up your mind, please! Or ask Swami R to make it up for you, perhaps?

              Mind you, if you’re swimming around in a veritable ocean of ‘no mind’ all day, all this nonsense from me should hardly cause a ripple in your profound consciousness, surely, “eh?”

            • satyadeva says:

              mini kang, you declare,
              “You are certainly someone who has failed our Master Osho and I would say exhibit why new comers are turned off, by looking at people like you posting here.”

              What do you think sannyas is, some sort of ‘crusade’, or some sort of advertising campaign? Or both?

              No one ‘fails’ Osho or any other master, unless perhaps they don’t complete a specific worldly task he’s given them. And even then it would be debatable.

              One outstanding characteristic of Osho was how he refused to allow anyone to feel or be made to feel guilty, he just wouldn’t endorse that corrosive mental poison.

              You and DR, on the other hand, seem to enjoy perpetrating it wherever you can, on anyone who has the ‘nerve’ to disagree with you or to not regard your guru as ‘special’.

              There’s something else for you to meditate over today.

              PS: DR bristles like a threatened porcupine when told he has failed, yet both you and he, the Gruesome Twosome, like to label others as ‘failures’. As usual, you like dishing it out, but cry ‘foul’ when you’re on the receiving end. I’d give red cards to both of you.

  26. bodhi vartan says:

    Sannyasins who like competitive sports must be like muslims who like bacon, or hebrew liking nazis, an odd bunch indeed. I suppose it takes all sorts. If sannyas was a fight-club … hmm … maybe it was … is

    • satyadeva says:

      What an absolute load of boll – er, I mean, ‘Nazi bacon’, Vartan!

      To give just one or two examples, may I tell you that in the 70′s and 80′s there was a decent enough sannyasin football team in London, occasionally supported in person by Poonam, the ‘famous’ woman who ran Kalptaru (and who insisted, of course, on full entry into the changing rooms),

      We even had a game once v the Sivananda people, who were rather outraged at some of our, shall we say, ‘less than spiritually correct’ behaviour…Then celebrated therapist Somendra was a keen Arsenal fan who used to enjoy watching football during free time in his groups, I remember that very well.

      In fact, in the Rajneeshpuram Festival of summer ’83, I recall a mass football game one afternoon, nominally Ranch v Medina, which was characterised by 100%, all-action committment on both sides – a sort of, er, ‘energy phenomenon’ in itself! Parmartha will tell you, he was there, playing for Medina.

      And in the 80′s there was a sannyasin cricket team, which existed for 3 or 4 seasons, two periods separated by a few years, which played in Regents Park and Hampstead Heath.

      As for tennis, well, that’s obvious, isn’t it?

      I wonder why you think all that seems so ‘odd’. Do you have some sort of stereotypical ‘blueprint’ in mind? Are all sannyasins ‘supposed’ to be artists, craftspeople, musicians, dancers, sex workers, drug smugglers or croupiers, for example?! And are therefore to be deemed somehow ‘eccentric’, ‘heretical’ even, should they work in, say, commerce, accountancy, school teaching, sport, local government, law, civil engineering etc?

      Strange….

      Interest and enthusiasm for one area of life doesn’t preclude similar passion in other areas. Look at Mick Jagger: wild rocker, the opposite of ‘respectable’ in his public performance and an inveterate womaniser/adulterer in his past private life, who happens to greatly enjoy intellectual pursuits like ‘academic’ type reading, makes a point of attending the Lord’s Test every year and who likes playing the occasional game of cricket himself. And then, of course, who also happens to be a knight of the realm – which I do find rather bizarre, I must say, but after all, it’s a crazy world, this one.

      He once said that a lot of people don’t really grasp the concept of ‘multiple selves’, of a many-sided personality. Rather like, it would seem, DR (and perhaps yourself, Vartan? Although I doubt you’re that obtuse somehow).

      I have heard…

      “Care for another slice of bacon, Mr Hitler? It’s rather delicious, you know!”
      “Er, I’d love to, Mr Ahmed, but I’m running a bit late for my Hebrew class, sorry.”
      “Sure, I understand. How’s that going, by the way? Very good, best thing I’ve ever done, absolutely loving it, thanks.”

      • bodhi vartan says:

        I must be the only man I know who doesn’t like football. My son (32) when he was 18-19 he said to me than in the UK if you like footy and beer you will never be short of friends. And yes he drinks and worships football.

        I have been told by a psychologist that many ppl are into football because it’s the only stable element throughout their whole lives … you wanna go out on a limb … forget about dropping the mind and drop the ball. You wusses.

        As it happens the other sex likes men who don’t drink or watch sports … but how would you know?

        • satyadeva says:

          There’s something in what the psychologist said and it applies not just to football but to other sports and other single areas of life that people latch onto and ‘identify’ with, eg being a fan of a singer or band.

          A friend of mine, for example, a Middlesex county cricket club member, has told me that he’s somehow “comforted, reassured”, by knowing that the cricket rituals at Lord’s (the most famous cricket ground in the world, in London, which he regards as an ‘oasis’, a refuge from the hurly-burly of urban life) will continue long after he’s passed away, just as they have since he started going there with me as a boy, 50-odd years ago.

          Personally, I don’t share his faith in any such ongoingness, but, each to his own….

        • Young sannyasin says:

          I also refuse to worship football,and in my country this mass religion is even more popular…..

        • satyadeva says:

          I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily football or drinking per se, I reckon the other sex simply wants, or rather, insists upon occupying an unchallenged position as number one out of all your possibly addictive interests, occupations and concerns.

          If she’s not that, you’re on shaky ground….

      • Parmartha says:

        Yes, as SD says, I can confirm the football match between the Ranch and Medina in July, 1983 which took place at the Ranch.
        I played centre half for Medina. It was refereed by of all people Amrito. SD is right it was taken pretty seriously! I can remember being “warned” by the referee at one stage!
        A one sided game however in which Medina lost !
        At Medina itself I worked quite a lot with the kids. On advice “from above” all our games were actually scored zen-all!

        • frank says:

          you can boast as much as you like about the big boys that you might have encountered on your journey…
          ramana maharshi,beedibaba,osho,krishnamurti,LBW papaji,barry long,baba freelunch,the enlightened banker,jimi hendrix etc etc,
          but I`ll bet theres not many of us left that saw the legendary ron “chopper” harris in action in the flesh.
          many, many felt the force of his energy and fell at the feet of this great soul….
          his ego-crunching tackles left many lotuses strewn in the mud….
          a destroyer of the egotistical pretentions long-haired woofti bastards if ever there was one..
          his zen slaps were pure no-mind in action.
          and who can forget his mastery of the zen koan:
          “who the f**k do you think you`re lookin at,then?”

          • satyadeva says:

            Them woz the daze, eh, frankie boy?!

            Wonder why Osho never signed him up?

            Fear, I expect….

            • frank says:

              I don’t think chopper would have found it easy to surrender….

              and what about billy bremner?
              I imagine he would have found it difficult to remain in a state of let-go,too…..

              as for myself.
              just at the point when I finally reached enlightenment and my ego merged with the cosmos ,i heard a voice from the deepest void inside
              saying…
              “they think its all over…
              it is now…..”

              • satyadeva says:

                By the looks of things, I reckon that’s exactly what ‘the Swami R fans’ are thinking today…

                Guess the SPL* was just too much for them.

                Strange set-up, that one:
                They’ve got a mega-rich oligarch at the top – but he says he’s renounced his riches for ‘higher things’ and is appealing for donations from the fans! (Some dodgy stuff going down there, I hear).

                Meanwhile, the fans are forced to build the new stadium themselves!

                While the flamin’ oligarch hangs around having a heart attack and boasting about how he loves being so effin’ lazy!

                Then ordering his Board to go and create a load of aggro at other clubs in their spare time.

                I ask you, frankie boy, what’s happening to our once-beautiful game?

                “Eh?”

                (*Sannyas Premier League)

                • frank says:

                  well,quite.
                  do you think the ragers will ever fight their way out of the lower leagues?
                  their style is pretty aggressive, but to be fair,brian,they seem hopelessly short on talent.
                  that “crazy gang” ethos seems hopelessly dated
                  and they haven’t got the blend of youth and experience right at all.

                  the red devils were a world-class force to be reckoned with in the 70s and 80s.
                  its sad to see them languishing in the `where are they now league`
                  I reckon the change of kit-colour was the beginning of the end,meself.
                  and some of the stars joined the likes of barry town and sunk into oblivion…

                  I do still have a picture of ramana ramathews in his baggy pants on my wall.
                  but its all memories…..
                  ah well,it leaves you wondering what might have been……….

                • frank says:

                  yeh,what happened to the game?
                  for the most part,its been destroyed by
                  money
                  greed
                  ego
                  cheating
                  not to mention disgraceful punditry.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Like I’ve always said, frank:

                  You can’t win anything with kids!

                  (Even 62 year-old kids).

                • satyadeva says:

                  I blame the 60′s generation for starting the craze for foreign managers. I mean, what’s so bloody special about the Indian game anyway?

                  Ok, India was its, er, ‘spiritual home’, it all kicked off over there, but life moves on and so should the pro game over here.

                  Trouble is, there’s no quality British managers around to fill the Void, never have been really. Take that Rage bloke, for example: he’s never cut it at the top level, he’s only ever been a player (and a pretty mediocre one at that).

                  Bit strange too, always full of himself, shouting the odds, but reckons he’s basically just a humble fan. And what the f**k is he doing fannying around with that Indian oligarch in effin’ Mexico, building a new training ground in the middle of Nowhere? Madness, mate.

                  Wouldn’t trust the guy with my team, that’s for sure.

                • frank says:

                  the red mist just seems to descend every game…
                  the worst disciplinary record in the league…
                  speaks for itself…..

  27. Lokesh says:

    I reckon that the likes of Mini and DR have in fact found the right guru in the form of Swami Rajneesh, if I am correct in assuming that he actively encourages his flock to do Osho’s meditations. Mini and DR are without doubt prime candidates for a daily dose of dynamic. Catharsis is definitely a key word in regards mentally disturbed individuals such as DR and Mini. Perhaps in a few years Osho’s active meditations and venting on SN will have the desired effect of cleaning out the sewage system they have for minds. I’m all for them participating on SN, knowing rightly that village idiots deserve respect. Although it might appear otherwise it is not the easiest of jobs to constantly make a fool of yourself and inadvertantly make a fool of their mentor, Swami Rajneesh, by constantly spouting their putrid thoughts on a public forum, which is read my many non-participants from all over the globe. Hats off to Swami Rajneesh and his ship of fools, for they are performing a valuable public service by illustrating perfectly how best not to proceed.

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      yes lokesh – and you deserve your cow guru and his disciple daddyji the cricket wallah – good luck with them – osho is far beyond you –
      an ex sannyasin of 32 years whose disgraceful punditry about osho has sickened many of osho’s lovers – of whom there are not many to be found commenting on sannyas news, as to come here is like entering into the septic tank, a few clever shits of whom you are the biggest having occupied the space since so long

      • dominic says:

        I hear you clucking big chicken.
        But it’s merely a sceptic tank.
        Keeping it real, so you don’t have to.
        Yours is the real stinker!
        Hahaha…

      • Lokesh says:

        ‘disgraceful punditry’ That’s a good one, Dhyanrage. Did you learn it from the swami? Really quite funny. Thanks for that.

        • dominic says:

          ‘disgraceful punditry’
          I say old bean, you’ve overstepped the mark with that one. Save it for the tantrum yoga sessions – “I hate you disgraceful punditry …aargh”.
          Guess the swami’s been feeding you his salami again.
          Pistols at dawn, wot wot.

    • dominic says:

      Ain’t it the truth! Or rather the truth decay.
      Perhaps mk & dr are really just two punch & judy glove puppets, with Rageneesh’s hands firmly up their behinds, here to entert-anus.
      He’s certainly an ass-ended Master.
      Smarmy “chutney brains” Rageneesh (aka Fu Ling Yu), and his barmy army, is a ‘D’ for donkey-rated osho impersonator,
      from the Stanis-laughski school of rhthym method acting.
      His blind followers are dys’fun’sional fundamentalists,
      though he is just a funny mentalist….one chapati short of a rice plate.
      El Macho is on a high A-salt diet.
      It’s giving him heart attacks and problems with free radicals.
      Out of compassion we’d like to grant him ham-nesty, but sadly he’s too far gone.

      Can his four-legged followers unblock their toxic sewage systems with more venting?
      First check for humourhoids, Iron-y, and Be one deficiency.
      Perhaps they all just need to go and lie down…
      for a really looong time and reee-lax…..
      Or maybe it’s too late and zombies ate their brainz.
      On a positive note, it seems they’re all doing their bit for recycling…… same ol’ same ol’ and … garbage in – garbage out! ;)

      • Lokesh says:

        Another chuckle to Dom’s corner., Truth decay….love it.

        • bodhi vartan says:

          dominic says:
          >> Perhaps mk & dr are really just two punch & judy glove puppets, with Rageneesh’s hands firmly up their behinds, here to entert-anus.

          Do you think he actually sends them to keep putting his side across?

          Hey guys, have you been sent? Is this what it has come to in your lives? Being sent to force water down the throats of ppl who are not thirsty?

          • satyadeva says:

            If not “sent”, then almost certainly advised as to how to proceed, possibly on a daily basis.

            Wouldn’t be too surprised to see this episode terminated by SN, sooner rather than later.

            • satyadeva says:

              What’s a “threat”, mini k?

              Show your second sentence to DR, he needs a mirror rather badly.

              Why assume ‘everyone’ is into Facebook? Are you really that stupid?
              If you’re still not sure what I mean, re-read my previous reply about this.

              Something else for you to meditate on today:
              Try to consider exactly why you and DR receive so much antagonism here. Go deeper than instant, self-serving, robotic reactions, if you can.

              • satyadeva says:

                Yes, of course, DR.

                The sheer reactive childishness of your posts is perfectly ludicrous. As such they’re utterly comical.

                Ever thought of going on a tv talent show? You know, ‘Britain’s Got Talent’ or something like that?

                Those catchphrases of yours – “disgraceful punditry”, “hahahahahaha”, “disgraceful punditry eh” and hahahahahaha eh” could earn you a fuckin’ fortune, old boy!

                You’re a cartoon character, an absurd, robotic cariacature, whom anyone can wind up with a few simple words.

                Is that all you’ve got from your years of association with your teachers, Osho and the latest one?

                Deeply unimpressive.

                Red card!

          • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

            as you have no thirst for truth you have no need to pretend to be a sannyasin do you vartan ? – what is sannyas for you – a social network ?

            • Arpana says:

              DianRaje is afraid.
              We know why.
              We know why you are antagonistic.
              You are an old burnt out sannyasin
              who had no real connection with osho.
              Your inadequacy is exposed.
              You have to attack in order to hide your inferiority .

            • Arpana says:

              as you have no thirst for truth you have no need to pretend to be a sannyasin do you dianneraje ? – what is sannyas for you – a social network ?

  28. shantam prem says:

    Maxim for fanatics-
    If you don´t see light in my spiritual boss, you are blind!

  29. Lokesh says:

    Hold on! I’ve been doing my arithmatic and realized that being an ex-sannyasin of 32 years I was a real sannyasin when Mini was just a twinkle in Daddy Klang’s eye. Isn’t that wonderful?

  30. Fresch says:

    Dominic you really closed it with our two entertaining guests…I still feel bad about laughing AT them. However, now you two young rascals, dhyanraj and mini, do you understand how valuable feedback you have gotten here from very experienced sanyasins? Now you even got everything from satyadeva – he was really most patient and still plainly straight with you. I know from my own experience that it’s difficult to take feedback, but I hope at least one of the many issues would go trough to you.

    Dhyanraj and mini..You seem innocent and often really fanny, but I do not want to do dynamic FOR you. Perhaps you did not know that hoo (in dynamic) is the self-enquiry. I have heard osho explaining it (unfortunately I do not remember which lecture..) I remember him explaining it that something like let the question hammer in every jump and sound hoo..and he was explaining it’s origin..osho is scientific about meditation, genius in that

    (but perhaps not genius in everything in universe)

    All expressive methods are about awareness, if you do not bring it to our process even in catharsis stage, it’s only temporary release, not a meditation.

    So, if you do your catharsis here, bring awareness to it, pls..

    I also thought that maybe you might intentionally try to provoke people here, so that you can put swami r’s quotes here. and he quotes really sound ” osho talk”.. And anybody who has been around even for 8 months are not interested in “osho talk”..so you might think all publicity is good publicity for swami r. NOT so with EVERYBODY…Do you know a social game where somebody whispers a word in an other person’s ear, then that person does the same to the next one…and next one. Finally when the last person speaks out the word it complete something else. So, when somebody is talking “osho talk”and people hearing it copy it, it’s what called on this site mumbo jumbo talk. What other names would be good for it?

    How ever entertaining you both are (you really are fanny and also very creative). So, pls stay with us and let us just see if it goes further. If your presence stays interesting, I do not know.

    I would be interested in hearing about your personal experiences for example in mystic rose….? MR is definitely my most precocious meditation – pure (colourless) magic. Also I would love to hear your trips around India – I am sure a lot happens for you all the time.

    • satyadeva says:

      Fresch, you come across a gentle soul, your posts are, as I’ve said, a breath of fresch air!

      But I must tell you DR is well into his 60′s, probably around 65-plus.

      You might expect a somewhat outraged response to a few of your above remarks. Should be quite funny….

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      fresh may appear a gentle soul to satyadeva – because she is buttering him and his friends up and supporting his bollocks
      but the truth is she is just as ignorant and judgemental as they are

      i dont recall ever asking you to do dynamic for me or at all – if you want to make up stuff – you are in the right company with your pal satyadeva
      you call rajneesh’s spontaneous talks “osho talk” and then say its mumbo jumbo talk – no wonder satyadeva is so happy with you

      about mystic rose – i did the second group after it was created in the ashram poona in 1989 – its a simple process and very cleansing – osho recommended we all do it and called it the best meditation since vipassana was invented –
      its tough to cry for three hours or laugh – only three hours a day but very intense and valuable for everyone whatever type of person they are – to release all that stored up repressed emotion and start life fresh – after the laughing week and the crying week finally we are back to gautam buddhas vipassana meditation for a week

      when i did it it was a free group and i find it really a pity that it has been exploited and sold at such high prices – thousands of dollars for a simple process which i am sure excludes many who would benefit – we intend to offer it free in our new ashram

      • satyadeva says:

        Have you checked your blood pressure recently, DR? You always appear highly stressed, on edge, defensive, looking out for attacks on all sides. You know, ‘Last Man at the Alamo’ syndrome…

        As I suggested to mini k, I honestly believe you’d be well advised to take time out and really consider why you’re getting such a hard time here. You think you know why , ie it’s all ‘their’ fault, but it might not be quite that way…

        Still, I suppose that would involve you having to shut up for a while, so I guess it’s ultimately an unrealistic proposal….

  31. Fresch says:

    and Satyadeva was giving you the A,B,C core of feedback (rest of us know) – what it is all about – for FREE..so consider your self lucky.

    • satyadeva says:

      Well, it would be great if Swami R was to be as straight with you as some of us are on here.

      But I suspect he lets you down gently, or you wouldn’t come across how you do.

      Either that or you don’t listen. Which wouldn’t be that surprising.

  32. Fresch says:

    Satyadeva, you have a one sided or superficial view about me, even a sweet one. We all have history I was almost thrown out from veeresh house because being reactive and incredible in rage a long ago ( well, to be honest, sometimes now too). Osho is my master, but sometimes you need a mentor ( I have had many other good mentors too ) to tell the same thing in more personal way. It has been taken years to take that one feedback.. and I can still do massive reaction.. and that is only one feedback and one experience.. . And so many other things have happened – like for all for us. . But this sanyas news is really about sharing the journey, for many not so easy issues that you actually cannot share anywhere else. I have been really happy to share, hear etc. get more space.

  33. Fresch says:

    And I called Dhyanraj “young rascal” because he is behaving as a teen anger, even I do know he is older. I just do not want to be judgemental about it. Even I do feel a bit like a mother..

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      you are right in this fresch – i am a young rascal – the body may be 62 years old – i am a sannyasin and consciousness is forever young
      satyadeva thinks age is wisdom and a young person should keep their truth to themselves – completely ignoring the fact that we are all ancient beings who have been on this journey always – and enlightened buddhas attained usually when their body was young – two i know about are osho and rajneesh who were in their early twenties for example – and i think gautam was young also when he became a buddha – and krishnamurti too
      i remember osho telling that it was very difficult for an older person to become enlightened almost impossible after age forty – it needs energy – a lot of sexual energy which is not so available in an older body

      • satyadeva says:

        DR, you say, “satyadeva thinks age is wisdom and a young person should keep their truth to themselves”.

        Wrong, trust you to deliberately misunderstand!
        For the vast majority, the process is long and requires decades of inner work. No use quoting the great Masters, they’re exceptions that prove the rule.

        And by the way, for your information, Buddha was apparently around 40 when ‘his time’ came.

        It’s also the case that young people are simply not experienced enough, not seasoned enough to reach what might be termed ‘spiritual maturity’. They usually have much to go through before any sort of basic ‘crystallisation’ happens, let alone any flowering of consciousness.

        Many , like mini k, for example, are still blindingly naive, self-evidently immature, which is why it’s advisable they don’t attempt to ‘teach’ others, especially those decades older and more experienced than themselves.

        You yourself, DR, are in a similar boat, as far as I can see, despite your age. You’re simply not qualified to ‘instruct’ or to judge anyone, a fact that’s perfectly obvious to your critics at SN.

        In a nutshell, I find you deluded, misguided and frankly, rather stupid.
        Mini K I feel inclined to be less harsh to, due to her age and having almost certainly been influenced by you, DR.

        But it’s red cards for you both.

  34. Fresch says:

    Mini, you are lucky – so many ways..get it?

  35. Dhanyam says:

    It is my understanding that Osho asked Amrito and Vivek for a list of 21
    names for his enlightened list and the names chosen are the invention of
    Amrito and Vivek

  36. shantam prem says:

    Things simple revolve If they are not stuck.
    For example, Sannyasnews!
    This name shows people are still wearing winter clothes when sun is 30 grad!
    Need of the time is to change the name.
    Rajneeshnews is the fitting name.
    It kills two birds with one stone…sorry two birds flying in one sky!

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      ha ha ha ha ha – i think lokesh would rather change the name to punjaji news shantam – but then he wouldnt have the opportunity any more to preach poonja to oshos sannyasins as they wouldnt be coming here – yes rajneesh news would make the forum more relevant for today – but all the old regulars are against rajneesh so as they have the power it will not happen

    • mini kang says:

      Yes Shantam, sometimes wit is wisdom,
      The jester in the circus is the wise one, playing the fool, needs great humor and intelligence. The jester is the opened heart with compassion.

  37. shantam prem says:

    Just read a new theory-
    Dhanyam says:
    23 July, 2013 at 5:28 am
    It is my understanding that Osho asked Amrito and Vivek for a list of 21
    names for his enlightened list and the names chosen are the invention of
    Amrito and Vivek

    From where you got this idea, I mean your understanding Dhanyam?
    Just this sentence is so far away from the mark that Osho asked Amrito and Vivek for a list of 21 names for his enlightened list.
    And sun revolves around the earth theory goes this far to say that these two people then invented the names.
    Donald Trump
    Richard Gare
    Claudia Schiffer
    Sonia Gandhi…
    ………
    …….
    ….

  38. Preetam says:

    The danger of the word Enlightenment is, that it can be used in any direction and confuse people perfect. Not joining the discussion, though one thing I like to say. The statement of S.R. about “Self” to me is a dodgy interpretation, a little misanthropic. It specifies an existence without inspiration, God without God; such “Enlightenment” anyone can project any false, too. It cankers dignity, Love, inspiration and truth, into an ignorant interpretation of one self; as I realizing our self, it does not suspend, we are becoming it.

    • Preetam says:

      Existence is our dancing heart the overflowing Love (Kâma), we become silent yet something higher takes over and makes one celebrate. Great teaching… awareness. What he says? “Sitting silently, grass grows by it SELF”! If it is no self, how to grow grass *g*?

  39. dominic says:

    Well I asked my guru Shree Niceness what he thought about all this, and here’s what he said.

    “Everyone is a mirror”, he intoned.
    “What”, I asked, “Even if the mirror’s chipped and cracked, and the silver backing’s gone?”
    “Oh in that case”, he said, “wrap it up carefully, and throw it out!”

    “Is it wrong to call people fanatical and stupid?”, I continued.
    “Oh yes,” he said, wisely nodding his head, “we should rather say, they’re ‘selectively focused’, and ‘differently abled’ or worst case scenario, ‘clue deficient’.”

    “What about calling them lost and aggressive?” I queried.
    “Ah no”, he replied with such love in his eyes.
    “We have to say, they’re ‘locationally disadvantaged’, and ‘niceness deprived’. In which case, tell them to come see me, and take my training, ‘Beyond The Rage’.”

    Well I couldn’t stop him now. He was on a roll, as he continued channeling great wisdom.

    “Sometimes people’s ‘issues’ are physically based, high blood pressure, resulting from a ‘heart’ bypass, or brain atrophy, through lack of use.
    Out of compassion, we want to avoid old seekers spontaneously combusting, or collapsing at their keyboards, frothing and foaming at the mouth.
    In fact we’re all fully realized buddhas right now. Just that some are a lot more ‘realized deprived’, than others.
    And human potential, the potential to be human, is in everyone!
    There’s also good sects and bad sects.
    You can tell the difference by the level of ecstatic communion and the smile that someone’s wearing.
    Of course if there’s too much ‘goo’ in the guru, people get stuck and codependent. They should try to leave. If they could just find someone to leave with, that is!”

    He broke out laughing at that point and I couldn’t get any more sense out of him.

    You know, I’m so glad I met Shree Niceness and have his blessings in my life.
    Because without him I’d be well, … ‘locationally disadvantaged’.
    As he always says, before getting up to relieve himself,
    “Peace on everything”.

  40. Lokesh says:

    I believe I’m correct in saying the the idea of oneness is central to the sannyas credo. It is therefore contradictoy in the extreme that Rajneesh’s motley crew are so on a separateness trip…ie us and them. They continually broadcast how in touch with Osho they are but the truth is they could not be further from him. Osho was all about bringing us together and the likes of Mini and DR are hell bent on creating the opposite.

    • swamishanti says:

      It reminds one of some of those from other spiritual groups such as the old Hari Krishna`s, who may come very close to their Masters non-physical energy but cannot stand any criticism whatsoever of the Master`s words or ideas about anything,thus creating a feeling of `seperation` between themselves and other spiritual groups and paths, creating a false feeling of superiority over others in their `flock` and ultimately this has resulted in wars between different religous groups.

  41. Parmartha says:

    Somewhere above, Dhanyam says

    “It is my understanding that Osho asked Amrito and Vivek for a list of 21
    names for his enlightened list and the names chosen are the invention of
    Amrito and Vivek”.

    Thanks Dhanyam. Sounds possible. Thw problem I have with this is the numbers. I remember a whole long list being read out, etc. And Susan Palmer in her academic piece on the Ranch says it was a 100 or more which I link below.

    http://www.unil.ch/webdav/site/issrc/shared/8._Telechargement/Cours_BA_automne_2012/Texte_Palmer-2.pdf

    I suppose you may be recalling just the actual “enlightened”, not the added categories of those near, and those who will get it in this life, etc ??

  42. Dhanyam says:

    Some insider told me that Osho asked Amrito and Vivek to give him a list of
    names which he used for his enlightened list. The names on the list come
    from the names selected by Amrito and Vivek.

  43. Fresch says:

    Young age makes you teen anger..

  44. Fresch says:

    Teen anger is not enough. You can come to my training and become a toddler: lalalalalaa

    • Kavita says:

      can I enroll for toddlerment ? Iam bored being a teen ager , its more fun being a toddler .

  45. Fresch says:

    Kavita, toddler training is your innovation, so you are the master therapist..but we can do it together. We will make it big, but not for free, let’s say 10.000,- for 2 years and treinees can then take over our next training ( but we take money) while we are in festival in ibiza..

  46. Arpana says:

    A master class in stereophonic quippery from frank and sd. (Snigger. )

  47. Fresch says:

    in the training I can tell about my passion in life. But I need a stage and audience sitting under it on the lower level. Also I need a big screen behind and living video for burning fire on it. In the end I come down and hug everybody – as a human being – and be their friend. Or perhaps I do the rock star thing and jump to their arms. What would you kavita do to give people a good worth for their money? I think you would just sit and give a beautiful satsang on the stage. Perhaps we could put video about Himalayan flowers on the screen behind.

    What about rest of you how are you contributing?

    Just note, they need to be motivated to pay for it.

    • Kavita says:

      Ok if you say so , but silence satsang is better , saves energy , I don’t mind Alpine flowers on the screen behind !

    • satyadeva says:

      Well, I guess Dhyan Rage could give a motivational talk on ‘How not to win friends and influence people’.

      Plus a short workshop on ‘How to be awarded the Red Cards of Life’.

      How does that sound?

      Mind you, he’s a terrible – er, I mean a terribly busy – man.

      • Arpana says:

        You wont be laughing when that poor little old man blows a gasket and his miniature friend develops frown lines. You’ll be sorry then, you and frank. You’ll be laughing on the other side of your faces.

        • satyadeva says:

          What’s that, Arpana? Sorry, the old ears are playing up – age, you know.

          Laughing on the other side of our faeces, did you say?

          My God, I wouldn’t fancy any of that!

        • bodhi vartan says:

          >> You’ll be laughing on the other side of your faces.

          That must be the weirdest phrase in the English language. I remember once trying to translate it into greek.

          Which is the other side of the face?

          And the fact that it is generally directed threateningly at children makes it even weirder.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Fresch says:
      >> toddler training
      What about rest of you how are you contributing?

      I’ll bring the Calpol … if you haven’t tried it on your genitals you haven’t lived.

      I’ll bring laxatives too. We can take lots of them and whoever can hold it in longer wins.

  48. Fresch says:

    And people only pay, or pay attention, if they themselves, get more friends, love or money – which is so called “change” in people’s life.
    So, forget about being ordinary in ordinary sense.

  49. Fresch says:

    Ok Kavita, then it’s better we put a light show behind you and our trainees will throw fresh flowers on audience (who are sitting below you)..Some music also but first of all we tell everybody You are in silence – enquiring within.

    PS. Parmartha there is no such thing as objective research either.

    • Kavita says:

      Ok Fresch , make sure you train the trainees not to put flowers on me , Iam allergic to flowers , I get a sneezing attack thereafter & please a bottle of drinking water , I get lil thirsty every 1/2 an hour , I shall remind you of the other things I need , as we go along .

  50. Fresch says:

    Yes satyadeva, Indian “free lunch” can be poisonous. Better to work for some money first, at shop is good, then pay for a “ be a parent to your self” group and and then you can start your next level journey.

  51. Fresch says:

    swami satyam dhyanraj ,

    I do understand the dream about “not thinking about money” at all; my parents were left wing activists..(it’s teen anger dream that not you, but parents take care of practical issues) It just does not work. Sad in a way, but true. The “free market” becomes easily flee market and there is no such thing as “free lunch”. So, I have already said it’s not a good idea to offer Mystic Rose for free, somebody always pays. it (the money issue) just becomes indirect and often cunning. Or confusing. Then, when people have done it (and paid something about it) they can help etc. without paying. I have done MR 4 for times and would love to do it much more if possible. But it’s not about money. And money issue is not straight and clear with you people. That is really something you need to let sink and create an other vision.

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      pay as much as you like for mystic rose – no one is preventing you – perhaps you intend to make money out it yourself ? – that would explain your being against the idea of it free – it costs nothing to give it free if the space for it is available

  52. Fresch says:

    In my country we get a lot of things “for free”: like all education, health system etc, but we do pay a lot of taxes, so we do pay for it. so, you (or somebody else )pay one way or an other. Do not confuse it.

  53. Fresch says:

    Dhyanraj, “doing dynamic for you” is participating in YOUR catharsis here.

    It’s ok for me, IF you bring awareness to it

  54. Fresch says:

    So, if any awareness would happen for you the next stage is hoo; self-enquiry. So ask Lokesh what you can do with that..he might not be intrested in answering for you any more..

    • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

      jumping up and down and going hoo – hoo has nothing to do with self enquiry – its an energetic thing – see swami rajneeshs detailed explanation of dynamic on you tube if you are interested in the ins and outs of dynamic

      The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

      • satyadeva says:

        In fact, DR, ‘Bhagwan’s first versions of dynamic – early 70′s? – included saying or chanting or shouting (I’m not sure which) ‘Who am I?’ in the third stage. This was eventually modified, through observing the effects on participants, to its current ‘hoo hoo’ form, at least by 1972.

        I don’t clearly recall any specific instruction to use it for self-enquiry, although this might well have been suggested during the early days by the people bringing the dynamic to the West (and, btw, what a good job they did).

        As Osho himself left crystal-clear instructions for all his meditations I don’t see why it’s necessary to consult Swami R about any of this. Why not direct people to the original source?

        It’s another example of you trying to promote Swami R at a place where he is transparently unwelcome. Especially as the man is seeking to somehow ‘replace’ Osho, to be his ‘successor’, which, as you know, for many is a more than somewhat bogus agenda.

        • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

          ED: THIS SENTENCE HAS BEEN DELETED. SANNYAS NEWS WILL NOT TOLERATE FURTHER ABUSIVE REMARKS – FROM ANYONE OR ANY STANDPOINT.
          perhaps you could share oshos youtube video explaining dynamic with us as you say its the original source – is it better than rajneeshs explanation?

        • bodhi vartan says:

          The first name of Dynamic was Jet-Speed Meditation which I think it must have been a really cool term in the ’60s. If it was devised now it would be called Quantum Meditation.

          I think Dynamic is a great term for it.

      • bodhi vartan says:

        swami satyam dhyanraj, I just listened to Sw Rajneesh explain the first stage of Dynamic …

        Words like “conditioning energy” do not sound very scientific. Recent research coming from Nepal says that the first stage is to counteract long term (anxiety driven) shallow (thoracic) breathing which allows carbon dioxide (a poison) to build up at the lower level of the lungs. The whole idea of stage one is to pump out all the carbon dioxide and replace it with fresh oxygen. There is no magic energy to be conditioned, just pure air.

        Switching thoracic to abdominal breathing is probably one of the oldest tricks on the path (sinking Qi to Cinnabar Field). The magic of Osho was to condense months and years of asana training into a ten minute whirlwind.

        (Not me and you, but I find it strange to be thinking that many out there are walking around carrying a column of poison around with them and only ventilating the top third of their lungs.)

        • satyadeva says:

          Yes, Vartan, it sure was/is ‘magical’.

          Doing it totally, almost every day, after a few weeks I knew I was changing for the better, after a few months I became psycho-physically transformed, years of debilitating, dysfunctional depression had lifted. From those ’3D’s I felt like I was in another dimension. An absolute miracle it was.

          And the beauty of it was I’d done it, just through breathing, letting go and yelling! No thinking, change of thoughts, beliefs, therapy, reading, drugs, medicines.

          Remarkable.

          I honestly don’t think I’d still be around unless I’d come across this life-saver.

          • bodhi vartan says:

            It works best for newcomers because they are carrying the most shit but also it is harder for them to get total. So there is a trade off.

            There is confusion because not the whole of the Dynamic exercise is a meditation. The first three stages are just a build up to the meditation. The meditation begins at the first “freeze”.

            The whole of Osho’s (physical) work was to raise “the energy” and then “freeze it” and “watch it”. Teaching me to watch energy has been Osho’s greatest lesson to me.

            • Arpana says:

              ‘It works best for newcomers because they are carrying the most shit but also it is harder for them to get total. So there is a trade off.’

              Nonsense.
              Newcomers throw themselves in, in innocence, without expectations.

        • swami satyam dhyanraj says:

          respect vartan – now i see you have the intelligence not to dismiss something out of hand without looking

          • bodhi vartan says:

            The great advantage with something like the Dynamic is that it works whether you know the psycho-physical parameters, or not.

            I reckon that a large percentage of the Pune1 participants didn’t really know/understand what was happening to them, and that is why even today they have difficulty explaining themselves. Osho’s Active Meditations were revolutionary then and they are still revolutionary today. They just need to be explained properly.

            Dynamic done totally is in Lokesh’s words a Mind Bomb. If you really want to bomb your mind that is. Hyperventilation, that is when you have sucked too much carbon dioxide out of the system (than the system can generate), is a known technique of brainwashing. Bhastrika is similar but not identical to Osho’s technique.

  55. Fresch says:

    Well, I have been doing dynamic for last 5 years 8-10 months a year 2-5 times a week, leading it (same time doing it my self), but surely for doing it for my self in India and many European countries in meditations and groups. Other than just getting my self there to do it ,I try not to force it (for example I might not jump so much or I might just sit down sometimes in silence stage), I tell you this so I am not interested being achiever there in that sense.
    But, I have also read everything osho says about it. And he really explained hoo is for enquiry – and that is coming from Maharsi’s ”Who am I”. Then the stop – freeze, is form Gurdijeff’s exercise. However, osho made his own original revelatory meditation out of it. pls do go to the source, osho, do not listen middleman like me or swami R.
    Also, what I remember reading from him dynamic is same kind of process as Samadhi: first internal chaos (chaotic breathing preparing for that) catharsis, enquiry…then sudden stop. And finally celebrating life. Like doing mini enlightenments every morning. Remember these are my words. I do not bother to look for exact quotes for you, anybody interested, and you nee to do it your selves. I feel I have contributed enough for swami R’s flock, no need to repeat anything, you can just read again what people have shared with you here. I feel like moving on.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Fresch says:
      >> But, I have also read everything osho says about it. And he really explained hoo is for enquiry – and that is coming from Maharsi’s ”Who am I”

      A MONK SAID, ”BECAUSE HE DISTINGUISHES THINGS BADLY, IT MEANS HE CAN’T SEE.”

      HOFUKU SAID, ”KWATZ!” to the monk who was giving this answer – because he divides things into good and bad, into black and white, into dead and alive. He cannot see what those persons are doing.

      Hofuku shouted the Zen KWATZ! which is equivalent to the stick hitting your head. Because the master cannot always carry the stick, they found an equivalent. And certainly when a Zen monk or master shouts ”Kwatz!” it hits harder than any stick can. It keeps you utterly silent – ”What happened? Why has he started shouting in a strange way, a sound which means nothing?” But it can wake you. Any sound, meaningless or meaningful, can wake you up.

      The Zen experience is that certain sounds reach into certain centers of your being. That is the experience of all the mystics of the world. For example, Sufis have found the sound HOO. If you repeat ”Hoo” continuously, you will find that the center of your life, just two inches below your navel, is hit again and again. Soon there will be sparks coming out of your life center.

      In this country, they have found OM – which is mild, in accordance with the character of the people who have lived in this country. It does not hit very hard, but it pushes. ”Om, Om,” again and again – it pushes you into a different space that is not mind.

      Zen has found KWATZ – it is like their character, their training, their samuraihood. They are warriors. ”Kwatz!” – it hits exactly the same center as ”Hoo.” When you greet each other with ”Yaa-Hoo,” you are hitting the same center.

      (end of quote) Zen – The Solitary Bird (Chapter 14) 1988

      Please show me where Osho says that the Hoo is a Who?

  56. Parmartha says:

    People who I knew in early Poona one, knew a guy called Ram. I never knew him personally, but for example Lokesh seemed to know him well. At one point Osho declared he was enlightened – or seemed too. As he was young and English it seemed unlikely. A few weeks later someone asked this question and below is Osho’s reply. Anyone know what happened to Ram?!

    Question:
    
One says you told Ram he is enlightened – in the sense of realized. Another says you had both your tongues in both your cheeks. Ram says you were joking and that I should ask you. I tell myself it is really none of my business, but still, is he? Has he?
    Osho replied
    “If he has understood that I was joking, then he must be enlightened.
    Enough for today.”

    • Lokesh says:

      Great example of Osho playing the buffoon—displaying behaviour that is ridiculous but amusing.
      It was definitely ridiculous and it is still amusing.