A New Momentum in the Neo-sannyas Movement.
By Swami Aatmo Neerav
For thousands of years the culture of sannyas was hidden in the wombs of the East and remained a privilege rare to the common world. It required great penance and unswerving self confidence, determination, honesty, sacrifice and devotion on the part of those who wished to walk this non-worldly path of spiritual enlightenment. For this, seekers had to pass through years of austerities, discipline and purification before a master would initiate them into sannyas.
Osho was not in favour of this concept. He argued that with time, the original concept of sannyas had lost its grace and honor and had become a refuge of the escapists. So in 1970 he invented a revolutionary vision of sannyas known as neo-sannyas.
His sannyas was different from the old concept of no possessions, no family and no profession. Osho did not want his sannyasins to renounce the world but practice meditation in the market, while also embracing their worldly duties. Though this looked easy, it was a bigger challenge for the sannyasins to meditate and remain aware while being in the crowd.
It came as a shock to traditional fundamentalists and priests who thought Osho’s concept of sannyas was just too easy, and they predicted that it wouldn’t work. But the consequences were quite contradictory.
Just in seven years after its establishment, the movement of neo-sannyas had gained so much momentum that every year thousands of people were being initiated at the Pune Ashram. Young sannyasins in mala and orange sprang up throughout the world. This crowd of young and educated individuals further grew when Osho went to America and established his commune, Rajneeshpuram. By 1985 the number of his sannyasins had accelerated beyond millions and the red clads in malas could be seen in all major cities of the world. It was a period of honour and glory for the neo sannyas movement.
But unfortunately the neo-sannyas movement felt a great jolt in October 1985 when the American government plotted and destroyed Rajneeshpuram. Especially after Osho left his body in 1990, the movement seemed to take the journey of a setting sun.
Furthermore, the management at the Pune Ashram formed unnecessary rules that resulted in much confusion. They instructed camp-conductors to wear black clothes and ordered them not to organize camps for more than three days. Orders were made not to celebrate Osho’s birthday, Enlightenment day, Mahaparinirvana and Master’s day. All Osho pictures were removed from the different departments of the Pune Ashram and instructions were made for others to follow the same. Songs mentioning Osho and the word, master, became banned in the Ashram. While great efforts were made to destroy sannyas, initiation was gradually discouraged and wearing Osho’s mala was seen as a “crime”.
All intimate and dedicated disciples who loved Osho were asked to leave the Ashram one after another and their entry became banned inside the Ashram premises. Committed sannyasins who were working in different departments of the Ashram since many years got replaced by paid non-sannyasin workers. Dedicated Osho disciples doing his work for many years were discouraged to continue and great threats were made on the basis of fabricated trademarks and copyrights so that people would stop working out of fear.
Despite the prevailing confusion a few devoted disciples who had been banned by the management of the Pune resort continued with Osho’s work and established communes independent from the control of Pune Resort. Old Indian sannyasins like Swami Narendra Bodhisattva, Ma Amrit Mukti, Ma Yoga Neelam, Swami Chaitanya Keerti, Ma Dharma Jyoti, Sw Anand Vijay, Sw Anand Swabhab, Swami Chaitanya Bharati, Swami Anand Vairagya, Swami Vairagya Amrit and Swami Anand Arun from Nepal started giving sannyas and spreading Osho’s message throughout the world. The newly established communes again started to work as true Osho meditation centres and the neo-sannyas movement which was almost dead regained its pace of acceleration.
Recently this movement has attained a glorious momentum in Nepal. Today there are 4 active Osho communes and 70 meditation centers spread throughout the country with 65,000 initiated sannyasins. Every month Swami Anand Arun and other camp conductors trained in Tapoban conduct several meditation camps and initiate about 3000 people from all over the world every year. During this year Swami Anand Arun is traveling to 11 different countries in Western Europe, North America, Asia and the former USSR to conduct meditation camps, facilitate sannyas and open meditation centres and communes. When asked about his pace of work he says, “This is what existence wants. Its people’s love for Osho that invites them into sannyas and its Osho’s energy and compassion that accepts them. I am just a medium.” He adds. “Osho’s neo-sannyas and his meditation techniques are the only way to create the new man and the best solution to the prevailing global crisis. In 1969 when I had my first interview with Osho, he had said to me, ‘If you work hard the whole of Nepal will plunge into my colour like Tibet has plunged into Buddhism.’ I didn’t believe him then but today I can see it manifesting.”
Seeing “the work” happening in and through this little country in the mountains proves that the concept of neo-sannyas that shook the world in the seventies has lived and is thriving with the same glory. It also ascertains that good intentions never die but manifest themselves in due time.
The paradox of the Tapoban and other similar approaches disclosing itself again.
On the one hand they say (and believe at some level) that enlightenment is some traditional concept that requires great effort (and still does). They even have these type of rules of engagement that Arun is fond of. And all rather Hindu.
However it is not representative of the “Master” Osho.
He never did rules of any sort.
These apologists also have a sort of “ready” history of sannyas. Actually the history of sannyas, especially the 1981 to 1987 period, is very complex. Rajneeshpuram may well have been “designed” to fail. Certainly the “failure” which is a poor choice of word, of the Ranch (Rajneeshpuram), was to do with the inner weaknesses of the commune, not anything else.
again the unconscious failed hippy,heraclitus,fails to grasp the significance of the glorious rebirth of neo-sannyas,which as arun points out is the ONLY way to create the new man.
heraclitus should discipline himself and instead of voicing his foolish pseudo-intellectual complaints,prepare himself for a thousand year yuga of higher consciousness under the auspices of swami arun and all our other glorious and honourable indian disciples who have weathered the neo-colonial storm of the “resort” to bring the honorific jewel of sannyas via neo-sannyas to the worldly world.
I love Sw Arun but I think in some deep way he does not understand Osho and his work.
Satya, look up what Osho says about discipline in the on-line library at Osho.com, if you can afford it. He was not heavily into discipline. Listen to Osho, not Swami Arun or anyone else
Osho had two sets of “non Ten commandments.” There were no rules. You were just thrown back on your own consciousness. You cannot make rules because there are 6 billion people on the planet, all different.
“While great efforts were made to destroy sannyas, initiation was gradually discouraged …”
If Pune wanted to destroy sannyas, they could close the resort. They still do sannyas initiation there.
Listen to Osho, not anyone else.
whoah!
just when i thought i`d escaped the bhagwan,i find myself being chased from over the himalayan horizon by a bunch of hard-core hindus dressed in pink nighties trying to save the world.
there`s never a dull moment around here.
i cant wait for the thousand year reich of consciousness to start with satya,arun et al at the helm–sounds like a barrel of laughs!
indians obviously know a lot more about enlightenment than those cowboys at the resort.
whoah!
just when i thought i`d escaped the bhagwan,i find myself being chased from over the himalayan horizon by a bunch of hard-core hindus dressed in pink nighties trying to save the world.
there`s never a dull moment around here.
i cant wait for the thousand year reich of consciousness to start with satya,arun et al at the helm–sounds like a barrel of laughs!
indians obviously know a lot more about enlightenment than those cowboys at the resort.
Frank ,are you sayya or is satya you?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/apr/11/eckhart-tolle-interview-spirituality
We are all one swami
Yes. Thank you.
Namaskar Swami Aatmo Neerav,
I could not be happier that Osho’s work is flourishing in Nepal. Isn’t it amazing that of all the places Osho chose Nepal for HIS work.
And about Rajneeshpuram, there also Osho’s work is continuing. All the young people are using that place’s energy into their creativity. And for sannyasins, if you go there, you still feel total presence of Osho and energy vibrating and the next morning you look at your face, you have a different glow in your face with Master’s grace. You are silent, blissful and tears rolling from your eyes. Yes, it is all love that counts, love for the Master. I never thought I would visit Rajneeshpuram, but I did ( in November 2004).
haha..what great discussion follows an article:D..
everyone wants to proclaim they know osho well..but the truth remains..they dont yet know themselves a bit!!if u cant understand a drop..how on earth,will u ever,understand the mystery of the ocean!!
living your life for others..helping them..giving your entire life to your master..is not making a cup of tea!!it requires committment..surrender..and a lot more!!what swamiji(arun swami) has done in his life..is absolute surrender to the master!!his discipline..what he speaks about..is a catalyst..if you follow that set of panchsheel..it’s gonna help you…at a greater speed on your path!!..though it’s absolutely upto oneself to follow these sets or to discard them..but when one doesn’t know…one should not speak..or atleast..criticize another person!!yes it feels nice..all the balderdashes et al…but ultimately the goal is…NO GOAL BUT THE PATH!!it’s just to go within the depths of our own soul…and know wt we are!!osho stands at a place..that we can just dream of at this point of time..he’s the everest in terms of the self…and we..are still below sea level in comparison!!
it’s advisable to stop the gimmicks..blaming one another..finger pointing..etcetera..the one who is wrong..everyone knows that!!poona has stopped the publication of osho times following august…reason-finance!!there was a swamiji who said he’s ready to give all the money involved..but poona said…NO..now ask why??!!..some may still go on thinking that poona is doing osho’s work..painting black..disallowing maala and robes and ‘swami’ and ‘ma’…!!and partying in the night..drinking and boozing..getting caught by the police..bribing them!!-the evidence of which all is available!!..well again, some people may still think..they are doing osho’s work:D…
peace unto all..blessed be!!
Such physical invasion of master’s premises
happened in the case of other great masters also
but such things will not in any way hamper the
progress of message of Osho’s spirit because
Osho had sown the seeds of his spirit in 2 millions
sannyasins all over the world and they are the real
centres of Osho which no body can destroy.
It takes sometime for those seeds to flower and
yield fruits in the form of spreading the fragrance of
Osho.The fragrance of Osho is the real thing and it
has already reached every nook and corner of the
earth.
Alok: I love Sw Arun but I think in some deep way he does not understand Osho and his work.
Alok, I feel no one really understands Osho and His work. I feel I am not able even to imagine the cosmic power of the Master. I do not have those senses developed to see. I think I am a blind kitten.
We sannyasins are arrogant as Osho used such simple words to express inexpressible in my view.
It is true we should listen to enlightened ones. But I am also choosing to listen to what Arun sw says as a great disciple of Osho. If I see a person who has been transformed, full of love and compassion, life and fire, cosmic explosion I feel his truth. A regular guy, drinking and smoking, chatting on the web, CANNOT do what Arun sw has done! Many sannyasins are so bitter and so full of knowledge, and some are pure love. I choose to listen to the latter, what their experience has been. I have met only a few people (besides Arun sw) and their transformation is felt in every corner of the heart.
Arun sw keeps saying that what he is saying is His experience and understanding. However, everything he says in his commandments is from Osho books. When Swami Arun told Ma Madhu in his recent visit that he was condemned of trying to pollute Osho for advocating the five disciplines, ‘the panchsheel’, Ma Madhu boldly replied, “These were the same disciplines Osho gave us for meditation when he was taking camps and you have not added anything. Don’t worry. Positive and negative are both needed for a balance. It’s good.”
I personally met Ma Madhu (and one has to meet her to realise What She is) and she praised Arun swami’s work and effort.
Having said that, I do understand the criticism. If I stand aloof I can see that it seems like the religion is being organised out of Osho, BUT, we people, are such lazy cows thinking that enlightment will come by smoking a cigar, we need those centres and communes to wake up. This push is needed! Otherwise, we would have been enlightened by now and the ‘grass would grow by itself’.
Osho did say when he introduced the White Robe Brotherhood (ie evening discourse) that it was the most important thing. He said he wanted his sannyasins in Pune and in centres all over the world to sit down at 7pm for the White Robe Brotherhood.
my 2 canadian cents:
1st penny:
Those who claim who has and has not understood Osho’s “work” haven’t understood Osho’s work.
Disagree or agree, atleast with Sw. Arun, he has not manipulated or changed Osho’s proposal. No meditation has been changed, no names have been changed, Osho’s words have not been changed and he runs the Ashram according to his individual and creative expression: not a manipulated Osho.
Sw. Arun has an opinion about the “Mala”, but it really seems to raise alot of hostility amongst older sannyasins. Is the Mala really that harmful? Its simply a device into meditation and sannyas.
2nd Penny:
Sannyas movement.
Being passive vs being active.
Sw. Arun is simply expressing his love for Osho’s contribution of Neo Sannyas so that many new Osho lovers can experience it. He’s offering the vision of sannyas he experienced, and it is Sw. Arun’s right to do so.
Actively starting the neo sannyas movement again is not harmful. What do you do when you take Sannyas? You are simply committing to yourself that you’re not bound to this body and world, nor are you seperate. You can have both the inner and the outter. Simple as that, but everyone seems to be lopsided here or there.
What does being passive do? Passively hiding Osho’s books in your closet and Mala in your treasure chest does not benefit you or those around you. If Osho has changed something in you there should be no fear in sharing his contribution and in his words:
“nor by bread or sword”.
So, Hera-Pheri-Litus and Pokemon John, I respect your opinions but lets not get ahead of ourselves!
Alok john // Apr 14, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Osho said he wanted his sannyasins in Pune and in centres all over the world to sit down at 7pm for the White Robe Brotherhood.
So, are you doing that every evening?
No Chetna, but I have listened/watched hundreds of hours of discourses over the years.
Amrito “Disagree or agree, at least with Sw. Arun, he has not manipulated or changed Osho’s proposal.” Osho said White Robe Brotherhood was central. They do this in Pune. I think they do not do this in Tapoban.
I am not saying that Sw Arun’s camps are not wonderful. Or that he is not a “medium.”
I don’t see why we should not have opinions as to who understands Osho’s work and who does not. After all you would say an absolute newcomer “does not understand Osho.”
The fact is there are Osho discourses available where you can look up difficult questions like the nature of enlightenment, working for enlightenment, the role of rules and discipline, how the new man will come into existence. He spoke on just about everything. Not looking up what he says on a subject looks a bit remiss to me.
i loved reading everything above.all of them appeared to be committed to osho’s teaching.
i love all of you
uttam
Alok Says:
“Amrito “Disagree or agree, at least with Sw. Arun, he has not manipulated or changed Osho’s proposal.” Osho said White Robe Brotherhood was central. They do this in Pune. I think they do not do this in Tapoban.”
This is a wrong assumption Alok and completely inacurate. Osho Tapoban has white robe every night.
-Amrito
Sorry Amrito, I did not know
There is a lovely darshan diary with the titie
“The No Book : No Buddha, No Teaching, No Discipline”
here it is
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4884507/Osho-The-No-Book-No-Buddha-No-Teaching-No-Discipline
Us old boys remember stuff like that!
I think it is wonderful that Osho’s gift of Neo-Sannyas is made known and available to the world, by whatever means or by whichever commune, center or sannyasi.
I think the discussion of who is representing the right view of Osho or “His Teachings” is of little interest and of little importance. Those who try to label Osho as either this or that are embarking on quest to big to ever be successful.
The day Osho initiated the first sannyasins (and this anyone can read in the last chapter of Krishna – The Man and His Philosophy, entitled Sannyas is of the Highest) he made some very clear statements about the new sannyas movement.
He said that Sannyasin are The Seekers of Truth, and that this truth has to be searched for unrestricted by religious beliefs or affiliation. He expresses that it is not true renunciation if you renounce everything in the world but still remain a hindu, a buddhist or a christian. With sannyas one has to renounce even your own beliefs (and that means even Osho’s own words I would believe).
Osho even goes so far as to say that he makes sannyas initiation even free from himself. He is not the one initiating us into sannyas. It is an existential thing between you and existence. He said he would only be a witness to the happening, a catalytic agent as he would probably express it later.
These two things are what makes The Neo-Sannyas Movement so unique in my eyes. That one is given hundred percent freedom and hundred percent accountability for ones own search for truth, and that you are free even from the chains of the “guru”.
I first came to know Osho and his meditations in 1996 at the age of 20, and have been a sannyasin for the past nine years. My journey with Osho has gone from an instant falling in love, believing everything that he said, to an easy friendship, listening to his friendly advice and taking in his viewpoints on different matters.
I feel that Osho has become my friend. I love him but I don’t feel I have to live up to any standard that he sets. He is his own genuine expression of this wonderful existence, and I am my own genuine expression. I have never heard or read anything that would imply that he wants to control me. Yes, he is awakened, and I also want to become awakened, but that doesn’t mean that I have to copy all his views and statements. Existence finds different expressions according to time, place and person, and I really feel that Osho acknowledged that.
What I hear Osho say again and again is: search the own truth that you are. Don’t be miserly but rejoice and celebrate. Don’t be serious but be sincere.
I think that the opening of the neoannyas.org website is something of the most important things that have happened. Now sannyas really is available for everyone, even for those that do not feel directly connected to Osho. Maybe they feel connected to other sannyasins like Prem Tyohar, Vasant Swaha, Arun, Chaitanya Keerti, Chaitanya Bharti, or some other individual oyside the Osho-fold, or maybe they just feel connected to sannyas itself.
That’s perfectly okay (I imagine Osho would giggle)
The Neo-Sannyas Movement is not about Osho, it is about seeking truth. And if you read the chapter Sannyas is of the Highest I think you will discover that Osho never intended it to be about him. It was ment to be about YOU!
Let’s not waste our time discussing who has understood Osho in the rightest way. Let’s rejoice for all the different expressions neo-sannyas has taken and search for the truth of who we are ourselves.
With lots of love from Swami Prem Ananda
hey john,
dont mess with the hard-core hindus.
and dont try that that van morrison “no buddha no teaching”. stuff on them-it`ll go down like a brahmin at a bullfight ,man.
they gonna change the world,and if you get in the way,they`ll mash your karma and send black-robed kali round to sort you out.
just keep your head down and your nose clean,do white robe every night and with a bit of luck you might get reborn as a cockroach.
A few nice quotations from Chapter 1 of The No Book (No Buddha, No Teaching, No Discipline)…
“And one thing more about buddha that will be helpful to you…. Buddha is the only enlightened person in the world who has not given any outer structure to be followed. He has given total freedom. He is not like moses; he has no commandments. He never says, ’Do this, don’t do that.’ Those dos and don’ts may be good for school children but not for grown-up people. And the world has really grown up, hence moses is losing his hold, seems out of date. Buddha is gaining a hold… seems to be very very relevant to the modern mind….
…I also don’t give any discipline to my disciples. I don’t initiate you into any kind of character, pattern, shoulds; I don’t give you any ideals. I simply give you one small thing that has to, be worked out within your heart – and that is to be more alert. Do whatsoever you want to do: do it with more
consciousness….
….[The new sannyasin has written to Osho about his job as a lecturer in microbiology, and whether he should drop it.]
Drop that – that’s my message: drop it! Follow yourself. It is risky but it is tremendously alive! And never be afraid, because there is nothing to lose, and never compromise, because through compromise one goes on sel!ing one’s soul. The only way to be blissful is to be yourself. If you
compromise, if you listen to everybody’s advice and every tom, harry and dick goes on manipulating you, and you allow it, you will be lost.
It is nobody’s business to interfere in your life. Just listen to your heart….
Basically the article from Neerav itself is just propaganda. And of course there has always been propaganda in the public relations sides of Osho’s “work”,
This includes the “old” organisation when Osho was alive, and the one now left in Pune after he quit the body.
In fact the way they all “spin” the history of sannyas is similar, Tapoban, Keerti and the Resort all put a mask over the 81 to 87 period, but I do wonder why? The truth is actually incredibly interesting, How Osho got rid of 10,000 fake Buddhas, and sorted the real wheat from the chaff. Wonderful stuff. And a myriad of lessons about tyranny.
The US Government would never have touched Rajneeshpuram in a big way until they realised that some maniacs were trying to pioson their water supply! What would you do in response! In fact the Ranch was left fairly well alone between 81 and 84 by the US gov. authorities.
Just out of curiosity, can anyone give me a reference for the five panchsheels.
I have got the collected works on cd rom, so if someone knows roughly where it is I can look it up.
I am being sent email from tapoban advertising this article . wow .. the world we live in is an amazing place.
I say Good Luck to each and every Neo sannyasin whatever his preference.Arun is a powerful force for Osho and his work around the world helps to keep us together .After all we are all sangha brothers and sisters.
I looked up Panchasheels on the cd rom but could not find it.
I also tried “five disciplines” and “five rules” without success.
The cd rom has an awful lot but not everything i believe
Alok John,
i had the same questions regarding the reference on Panchsheel, i thought they were self imposed disciplines.
But strangely, i found them all in the early books of Osho when he was conducting meditation camps himself. Osho emphasizes on these disciplines the most and says they will help in meditation.
Maybe you should try translations of Osho’s books like Sadhanapath, the pachsheels seem are from these books so u wont find the word panchsheel in the cd -rom but the disciplines, you will find.
You should also look for discipline in the Cd-rom… you’ll find hundreds of discourses in which Osho clearly states how important they are for meditation.
Osho was one of the most disciplined masters himself. He was not late even by a minute to his discourses that also in India, where everything is late.
It would need great self discipline to follow such a life.
The Panchsheel according to my understanding are self-disciplines that arise through one’s own meditation and understanding. Osho didnt impose any external disciplines on his disciples because he wanted them to create their own self-discipline of life that arises from thier meditation. People misunderstood this, specially old boys like you who take great delight in arguing about what Osho syas about whiterobe but as you state yourslef, dont practise it even once.
Well you spend hours reading Osho’s words on a cd-rom but without meditation its only, as Osho says, “intellectual gymnastics.”
I’ll find more reference for you, because i had the same questions like you about the panchsheel. But after finding them all there in concrete form in Osho’s book i followed them. And it has been a great help for me specially in my meditation.
Love,
Veet
I don’t have any history with Osho other than being exposed to several beautiful retreats by a small group of Neo-sannyas in Chicago, reading his books extensively, and feeling very close to him. I received initiation from Swami Arun when he came to Chicago last year, and I appreciate the transmission. I felt the essence of Osho in what occurred, in the mystic selection of my name, in the sublime peace of the experience. Whatever the criticisms one may have of Swami Arun, he is dedicated to the energy of Osho, and surrenders to the joyful, chaotic bliss that Osho brings to these ceremonies.
I’m happy if some “work” is done in Nepal but I don’t feel it is true that sannyas movement is declining (what declining means really) and that Arun and the neo-sannyas movement are the true sannyas movement or so.
I meet people taking sannyas, being on their way of seeking all over the world. They are commited. Maybe very differently from the old “days” but very vibrant and alive.
He said that he will dissolve in everyone when he leaves the body. Everyone has its own way… everybody has good intentions but in the end it is myrself, silence and “my” own inner reflection that counts.
SO much politics and drama and who is rigth or wrong and who does or doesn’t do it the right way… same coin two faces… for me (and that engages only myself) is meditation whatever form it means to you that counts, the intention to look, awareness… and that is good enough for me that I meditate in Köln (where I live) in Australia or in India (not only Poona) or Tambouctou.
In the end only silence and gratefulness is left…
Much love, Rani
Video about Panchasheel:
http://tapoban.com/?q=node/294
http://www.onlinevideodb.com/v/3687728846/Panchasheel
Love,
Satya
i agree with rani.
(i never argue with a queen.)
meditation and being are the thing.
leaping about in a robe with a bunch of hairy people thinking you`re saving the world is great fun,
but ultimately its pretty delusionary,and needs fairly hefty doses of propaganda to keep it going.
hey,breathers
keep on breathing….
Frank and Rani, I am sure you have experienced how much stronger mediations are when many people do them together!? Not sure whether this ‘saving the world’ come from?
The point is with joint effort in buddhafields the growth is faster!
I love meditating on my own, but see how ego grows too from doing it alone!
All is good in the end, alone or in the commune, the main things is to keep on going.
Arun’s effort make thousands of people keep on going….
hi swami,
satya asked me to tell you he wont be back.
real people are saying what he wanted to say better than he ever could!!!
chetna,
stupidity and mob mentality is also stronger when many come together!!
you cant escape the game of black and white.
but what to do except try?
That’s true! oh yeah I have experinced it!
frank.
why is it that you have to pretend to be someone else ?
what do you hope to benefit from that?
your comments are actually often quite derogatory about sannyas and you seem to show a lot of interest in the negative history od sannyas or as you say the rajneeshees. Do you have any sannyasin friends to verify who you are ?
I’m looking for that interview of lord bath with osho can anyone tell me what book it is in or where I can find it /read it . thanks
hi swami,
the answers to your 3 questions are:
satya was satire(pun intended,but unnoticed)
laughs.
no.
I *believe* there are a few things that have to be considered when judging the “neo sannyas” movement, if it can be even called a movement.
First, cultural relativisim:
When Osho was in his body, it was clear that the “neo sannyas” movement was most visibly inhabited by westerners (Europe, North America). During the late 60s and early 70s, Westerns were seeking Eastern mysticism. Osho’s more eastern neo sannyas concept of Mala, Orange/Maroon robe and daily meditation schedule was easily accepted and loved.
Now times have changed, and the Western mind has shifted back to a more middle-area: yes to spirituality, and no to religious identification. Its very easy to take things like the Mala/ maroon robes and assume a religiously dogmatic environment is created.
So naturally the mind right now stays away from such things.
Those who are being introduced to Osho within a non-western environment are absorbing Osho through THAT mind. Be it indian, nepali, israeli, iranian, arab or what ever minds exists.
So, when indian and nepali sannyasins see no problem in bowing down to an Osho picture or wearing a Mala, a western sannyasins sees CULT CULT CULT. This word cult was invented in the west, and all/most cultism existed within the west.
So whats the middle-line?
Freedom. Not democracy of course, nor a United Nation of Sannyasins. But an understanding of the MIND and how attached we can be to whatever mind we were born with. And the problem continues when another MIND tried to convince other MINDS that their mind is wrong….and no one minds?
I don’t force the mala on anyone, nor do I ban the mala. I may explain why I wear it and recommedn to sannyasins to experiment with it as a device—not as a gateway to meditation.
So, in the end, the Mind has to drop and whether Sw. Arun introduces Osho through his mind; if he is spreading Osho genuinely than the person himself will get rid of his conditinings (even those condititionings that may have attacted them to Osho).
But for now…
NIVEDANO….
hjkhdjkshdjhfskjdkfdjskldjskjfljsdkljkdlsfjkdsfjskldjksd
if anyone likes Arun he is mentioned here on wiki on a page of notable sannyasins..have a look and add some imformation .. the page is nominated for possible deletion ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_Follower
panchsheel..the set of rules..disciplines..were designed by buddha initially..which comprised of things like..dont harm others..etcetera etcetera..the basic thing highlighted being that..dont do to others what u dont want them to do to you..so it was like a path..follow with your heart..do good to others..coz what you do..comes back to you!!..later it went on to the chinese tradition..and they changed the 5disciplines into 10..these are not commandments.. commandments are to control the people..to divide them..create barriers!!..imposing one’s ideologies!!..and buddha doing that..hah..i’ll lay down my life..!!..osho IS buddha!!buddha had said that he’d be back after 2500yrs!!the theosophical society was preparing J.Krishnamurti so as to allow buddha to descend into him..but the experiment failed..but buddha’s promise..he descended..and he poured into osho..late 70′s..that’s why he had to speak again on buddha..dhammapada!! that’s one reason his health started deteriorating too..coz purely buddha’s energy..in the 20th century..you can imagine how fragile it must’ve been!!..
now coming back to the discussion..arun swamiji has been a sannyasin for almost 40yrs now-soon to be 40!!osho himself said he saw the potential in him to colour nepal maroon..and YES!he has done it!!he is doing it..!still doing it!!at 65..travelling everyday..conducting camps every weekend..hectic schedule..never being able to be with oneself for long…do you think he’s gonna get a nobel prize?or power?or women??hah..!i’m surprised when people say that they find anything wrong with his work!!at 21..people would expect me to go to discos..bars..hang out with friends..booze et al..but i dont..i owe it to swamiji..coz when i see him..i know he has a fragrance..a light in him..i need to work for the same for me too!!it’s his understanding true..but he’s been blessed…he also has his compulsions!!..i’ve seen him..after prayer meditation..after sannyas..he gets fatigued..he gives all he has!!the ener
amrito,
oh dear,that old chestnut,again.
–THE MIND.
if you still have a mind and an ego,then your embracing of beyond-mind,whilst still being `in the mind` can only be a gambit of the mind to perpetuate itself.
surely?
however,for the mind or the ego to resist and deny the `beyond mind` is at least congruent and `real`to the nature of the mind.
see what i mean?
it`s ok being beyond your conditioning,
but really,will arun start eating full english breakast instead of puri,momos or whatever any time soon?
osho was a son of a jaina clothmerchant.
he loved fine materials and marble.
that`s nice.
anand alok,
are you not aware that buddha descended into osho in 1989?
osho said he had to throw him out because he (buddha)objected to osho`s having a jacuzzi.
also,buddha had irritating sleeping habits,apparently.
bishop charles meatbeater of the theosophical society never predicted that,did he?
Frank says:
“it`s ok being beyond your conditioning,
but really,will arun start eating full english breakast instead of puri,momos or whatever any time soon?
osho was a son of a jaina clothmerchant.
he loved fine materials and marble.
that`s nice.”
Absolutely right. So my point above wasn’t exactly saying “reject the mind you were born with”—its impossible. But I think most humans have the capability of empathy and understanding differences. So in the end I think that some sannyasins see the mala and robe as genuinely part of Osho’s message due to their conditionings. And those who don’t see the mala and robe as part of Osho’s message have had conditionings to forget or just aren’t into it.
Both ways I don’t agree with either “forcing” or “banning” these mundane things which become super-special when you do both!
and…if i understand correctly Osho had introduced these things as a part of a dis-identification device: new name, new clothes, mala. They worked to help dis-attach oneslef from their part and start afresh. Whether or not it works depends on the person.
part= past*
frank
your not a sannyasin are you?
frank please explain why you are posting under multiple identities.
your posting under other identities is destructive to the comments.
frank please admit and explain who you are.
I just read all 51 responses,
If I get a little more crazy stuff ,
I will go to Nepal
Wonderful.
Bodhi
Ah the panchseels!
Such Buddhist nonsense. Rules to live by – a sure sign of the frightened imagination of sitting saints. Frankly, anyway, nothing to do with the spiritual path, just a societal device for control.
How many people actually fuck in these Nepalese communes? I wager very few.
Arun might be a nice old guy with a good vibe, and someone who has patently given his life to Osho, but that dont make him right about pansheels! He needs a little sociological education, and an understanding of how society, not the individual, needs rules like these.
Arun or Osho´s brother Shailandra are like little little kiosks selling “bio-food”(Indian styel) still they are in demand because the main organisation is selling packed industrial food at five star rates.
“I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult.”
Back from Nepal. … Imagine when all 200 enlightened neo sannyasins star showing up……………………………!
Bodhi
I suppose Frank went to Nepal!
Crystal Clear is the No Book
Hairy-Litus says:
“How many people actually fuck in these Nepalese communes? I wager very few.”
Wow, atleast we know where your standards are.
Do you need video footage or some pictures?
Rediculous.
Santa Singh Says:
“Arun or Osho´s brother Shailandra are like little little kiosks selling “bio-food”(Indian styel) still they are in demand because the main organisation is selling packed industrial food at five star rates.”
Look whose talking “astroindia.com” !! If you’re gonna allege Sw. Arun or others are selling anything, can you disclose how much your profit margins are on Astro Readings?
Btw, making a comparison between Osho Dhara (Shailendre) and Sw. Arun is down right pathetic. If it isn’t for Sw. Arun and his efforts to establish communes that do not distort/import or contort Osho in terms of his meditation techniques, lectures or books, Osho Dhara would be thriving across Nepal and India!
But infact, its because of Sw. Arun, Sw. Keerti and others that have exposed this Osho Dhara business that alot of people have become aware. Otherwise Pune really didn;t do much of anything to rid people’s confusion about Osho’s relevance in such things like “Osho Dhara”.
…. Oh btw, Hairy-Litus:
Do you think you’d be allowed to enter Osho Resort if they expanded their AIDS test to AIDs and all other STD tests (Which i recommend they start doing)?
Well said Amrito!
and true too!!
Heraclitorius hairylitus must be quiet scared now. and would smone pls tell his thick brain of ass that the Panchsheel aren’t Buddhist rules, how stupid and primitive of him, little knowledge is really harmful than no knowledge.
And man Panchsheels really cool stuff, ITS IN AD ITS HOT. but i guess heraclitorius hairylitus is jus too old for it. too bad…
Amrito is right about my comment, it is pathetic to compare Arunji with Shailandra. Both are playing in the different league. Arun is a disciple of Osho from inside out for sure with own ambition May be like Viresh, but Shailandra is full with sibling rivelry….
24 karrot Osho is still possible at Pune, experiment of human consiousness can take placemore intensely under His energy, if managment sells the product not as a dry resort but juicy, dancing singing hugging ashram
Kartar, my labs think that french poodles smell nice. Good grooming. Some times I am also a cynic.
Once I met a Ma in Berkeley who travelled around the world with several pampered Lasha apsos, I wonder what would the french poodles think about that?
Shatam i Sing. Did you already do the charts of the people you are so interested? What is 24 Karat Osho in Pune!¡?
Amrito, What is the STD Test, Is it anything like EST?
Heraclitus, Check the meaning of Samaya Tantra. It is a little far from Greece, but you may get more answers. Amrito is right on the dot about STD testing and teaching. Taboo on sex in society exist for a reason, Now Science and Sociology have the answers. I support Amrito in as much as is possible to teach people on these issues. It is a matter of social responsibility.
Bodhi
“Never Repress Sex. Never be against it. Rather go deeply into it with great clarity…with great love. Go like an explorer. Search all the nooks and crannies of your Sexuality and you will stumble upon your Spirituality. Then you will become free. The future will have a totally different vision of sex for you. It will be more fun, more joy, more friendship, more play than a serious affair, as it has been in the past. Sex is just the beginning, not the end. But if you miss the beginning, you will miss the end also.” -OSHO
Hey Bodhi, STD stands for Sexually Transmitted Deasease (Herpes, Gonnarehea, syphilis,hepatitus etc). It would be good for the resort or any other center to include these tests along with the AIDs test before letting people in.
I am reading all comments giving by heraclitus, frank and similar people always giving negative comments basically relating to Arun Swami and Tapoban. I am very much surprised on their comments, always negative even on very good news. I feel pity on these people’s thoughts and tendency and looks always for point to make negative. There comments found to be negative on every news and article published on Sannyasnews.
If we look at the comments of heraclitus on this article “Basically the article from Neerav itself is just propaganda. And of course there has always been propaganda in the public relations sides of Osho’s “work”,
He knows nothing about the movement going in Nepal and allover the world through Arun Swami. He is only knowing some glimpses from these article. If he has known real situation, it is sure, he will be surpirsed. The news is not covering the real effect, which in fact can not be expressed through article. Sannyas movement ongoing these days is really surprising.
it is not propoganda, He has to visit nepal, or even he has to gather a courage to attend the camp of Arun swami whereever possible. otherwise just giving negative without knowing nothing will prove either this person is part of or paid person from pune management for destroing osho movement.
I feel some time thankful for Heraclitus and so on for giving their negative comments, which stimulate and raise courage to many people to write the fact as experienced, and thus helping someway to spread the real situation. After reading the comments people also udnerstands facts themselves.
So thanks to Heraclitus, Frank.
Amrito, of course it should be mandatory in all Osho centers around the world. Is the least that can be done as far preventing venereal diseases and AIDs, Recall all things that Osho spoke in AIDS, It is the least that can be done!.
Alok John, of course, we know that, and it does not mean that STD does not exist…………………..
Ma anand Sheela.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Anand_Sheela
Mutual respect for each other’s territorial integrity and sovereignty
Mutual non-aggression
Mutual non-interference in each other’s internal affairs
Equality and mutual benefit
Peaceful co-existence
……………………………………………………………………………………….
STD Test for all centers
When almost everything spoken or pictures or videod can be found on the net; i am curious to know where one can see; ” I leave you my Dream” complete or “censored” version?
Please, let us all know. This is one of the last historical documentry of Osho´s life.
In this He mentiones about redoing His room. If People create a new version of this Video; One can listen Dr. Amrito Saying;” And He slowly wispered in my ears; Once the new auditorium is finished, dismental the Buddha Hall. And my chair; better to sell it in the Chor Bazar. Let me be the first enlightened Master, who leaves no memories behind”!
This bit spoke to me that was quoted
“….[The new sannyasin has written to Osho about his job as a lecturer in microbiology, and whether he should drop it.]
Drop that – that’s my message: drop it! Follow yourself. It is risky but it is tremendously alive! And never be afraid, because there is nothing to lose, and never compromise, because through compromise one goes on sel!ing one’s soul. The only way to be blissful is to be yourself. If you
compromise, if you listen to everybody’s advice and every tom, harry and dick goes on manipulating you, and you allow it, you will be lost.
It is nobody’s business to interfere in your life. Just listen to your heart….
”
What more do we need as a rule ?
Be true unto yourself and harm none.
Thank you to Osho
And then I recall that the Sheela crew recorded all that stuff at the ranch which showed how unhealthy his environment was.
Osh allowed himself to be a prisoner of the Commune .
He allowed to fascist structure to be erected and then watched it collapse . He played with our emotions and then tossed adulation aside.
With regard to Arun and all the “successors ” I say
“If you meet the Buddha in the forest then kill him!”
Be brave
Be happy
Be well
As an example, there is the one in which two mothers talk about their sons.
One says, “And how is your boy getting on as a guru?”
“Just fine,” replies the second. “He has so many pupils that he can afford to get rid of some of the old ones.”
“That’s great,” says the first. “My son is getting on so well that he can afford NOT to take on everyone who applies to him!”
Hodja Nasrudin
news flash
times of india..date :19th april 2109.
a goods truck loaded with black label whisky bound for the osho resort was blown up on the highway today.
responsibility was claimed by oshama bin bharat amritarun,leader of a hardline rival osho sect.
he said:
“they are destroying our religion.they have demolished our sacred podium ,drunk alcohol there,
they have imported their sexual diseases through lax discipline,and are wearing negative black clothes.we will not stop until we have pushed them down the western ghats and into the sea”
good article!
I have been to tapoban n i found that it has very beautiful mysterious vibes. u sit anywhere in the commune n some undercurrent is always running. And the Osho samadhi where his ashes have been kept is very strong there. and the people there look and are different from thee rest of the society always laughing for no reason. i found it very strange. i love that place.
Frank, you are so funny. It would have been even worse if the truck would have been loaded with Blue Label, ha, ha. I am glad to get a first hand weather report from Tapoban. I wonder if any one would write about other Osho centers in the world so we would gossip a bit a learn a bit more. Enjoy
Bodhi
I would like to know more about panchsheel. Have been hearing alot about it, what is it???
great gossip
osho enjoys gossiping
keep it up
Emily there is a link to a video on the panchsheel issue in this very same discussion column. …………………
pick a boo..
ram come on, gossip…………………….+
Emily has asked:
“I would like to know more about panchsheel. Have been hearing alot about it, what is it???”
The Panchsheel are some basic principles Sw. Anand Arun has found from listening to Osho’s earlier discourses and meditation camps.
In no significant order they are:
1)Maintain a vegetarian diet
2)Do atleast one full meditation a day
3)Listen to an Osho Talk once a day
4)…..
5)Improve the quality of sex
I dont know one of them…oops! But they are not “disciplines” as some have called it. They are simply some basic hints Sw. Arun gives new sannyasins and meditators to help them out.
Recently one of my friends showed me recommendations of Osho from
the Hindi books, ie Dhyan Sutra (Sutra of meditations),
Samadhi Kamal (Samadhi Lotus), Sadhana Sutra (Sutra of
Transformation-full book) and Dhyan Ke Kamal
(Lotus of meditation). In those books amazingly and to
the surprise of so called no-discipline sannyasins Osho has so many recommendations there. And in the same spirit Arun Sw is doing now.
And always one moment has to be remembered here-what Osho meant business Sw Arun also means that.
It is not a dry philosophical discussions which has to be countered against.
We should really see the genuine concern of the propositions.
In those books prepared from the recording of Osho conducting meditation camps himself and giving answers in conversations
with seekers we find many practical question-answers. Those people who were asking the Master were
sincere and coming from far lands to meet the master, dedicating time and resources to be with him and
meditate with the Him.
Osho was very compassionate to give them practical suggestions: life consists of very basic things and
very simple things count. In that very simplicity meditation happens. World is powered by
many distractions for a meditator where his growth in meditation can go off the tracks easily.Osho emphasizes
many times that right ground has to be prepared for the meditation to happen. Just to note,
He talks there about
Samyak Aahaar (right food : food for the body, mind and emotion), Samyak Nindra (Right sleep), Samyak
Vyayam (Right Action and exercises). He says that even if one of those things is not balanced right meditation
cannot happen. nd these are
Osho was answering so many simple and trivial things like what to eat and read that may seam unimportant for a
great philosopher, but Osho answered them with great emphasis.
He was recommending them to apply these in their lives and see the result for themselves.
At this point Sw Arun has the same spirit.
Thus, the Panchasheel is:
Suddhi (Purification)
Sadhana (Meditation)
Satsang (Right company)
Sanskar (Habits, right approach to life)
Samadhi (Enlightenment)
If you subtly go through the books where Osho was conducting meditation camps himself (between 64 to 73),
you will find these recommendations again and again.
So of course, ultimately it is up to us to take or not advices from the enlightened Master and apply them
in life and feel the differences. They are not like 10 commandments.
Why Arun sw has had to come back to those early years advices of Osho now?
To answer this question the story is: Arun sw conducts so many camps around the world and inspires sannyasins to
open centres and communes and remains easily accessible person to camp participants at all times. He has been
listening to the problems of seekers for so many years. These seekers are sencere in their efforts and want to grow
in meditation, but due to lack of practical support and right understanding this has not happened to the
desired intensity. Thus, Arun sw started reading Osho more intensely to find what Osho had suggested in similar
situations. Over time Arun sw realised that it will be more beneficial to the meditators
if he shares those answers in a condensed way to all seekers. That has taken form of a Panchsheel.
Chetna,
“Recently one of my friends showed me recommendations of Osho from
the Hindi books, ie Dhyan Sutra (Sutra of meditations),
Samadhi Kamal (Samadhi Lotus), Sadhana Sutra (Sutra of
Transformation-full book) and Dhyan Ke Kamal
(Lotus of meditation). In those books amazingly and to
the surprise of so called no-discipline sannyasins Osho has so many recommendations there. ”
Presumably you cannot read Hindi, so you mean English translations of early Hindi books?
Would you be able to scan some of the relevant passages and put them up on the web?
The CD rom has many translations of early Hindi books from the 1960s and early 1970s and I cannot recall reading anything like that; albeit of course I have not read everything.
Cheta, you say, We should really see the genuine concern of the propositions. Of course, Imagine how immense the possibilities are when you also include the non disciplined awareness.
Pure awareness also works.
The situation of learning from Osho in his vast spectrum of understanding is enough to accept that there are many ways to get the message.
Masters never die.
Had another go at the CD rom with
“right food”
“right sleep”
“right action”
There are many references to right food and several to right sleep in The Inner Journey (1968) and the Book of Secrets.
The references to right action were for example…
“So my emphasis is not on action. First be, and then the right action follows of its own accord.”
“There is nothing like a right action and a wrong action; there are only actions done through understanding and actions done through non-understanding.”
“And the total action is the right action and the total action is virtue.”
Not much else on right action, but there were a few references to “right labor” with the suggestion it is a good idea to do some physical labor everyday.
who knows who is good company?
was sheela good company?
the boozers at the resort and the vegetarians chomping their desi daal,do they find each other good company?
no doubt all religious nutters think they are keeping good company.
so did the nazis
its ludicrous.
whatever happened to
turn on
tune in
and drop your pants?
ok ok,thats getting a bit old now
but at least:
love
life
laughter ?
with that,at least you could eat a brger,chat up someone elses wife,and forget to wash your face evey once in a while,without having to be reborn as a cockroach,or whatever.
artichoke tablets are great for good humor.
What to do with several thousand unruly sannyasin?
Ask some neo sannyasin about that!
The Mary Magdalene Godspels where only found two centuries ago…………………………………………………………….
don`t forget the practical joke element of neo-sannyas.
osho said that he put his people in orange robes and gave them sannyas just to irritate the hindus,jains,buddhists et al.
it was a pie in the face of piety!
remember that?
a bunch of western hippies and hippy chicks with no underwear,dressed as holy men and women?
that was a laugh man,you should have seen it!
and the faces of the serious religionists too!
that was even better!
Frank, As Holy as anybody can be!
Oh yeah, generally, there are not so many holy women, because religion in a real serious affair that only men understand…………………………………………………………………
Frank, The world will only change when we will find it filled with holy women and holy men and holy children, meanwhile all we can do is love ourselves.
Thankyou for all that information Amrito, Chetana, Alok John.
Has panchsheel added anything to any of you??? Helped you or not-helped you. If Osho was talking about these disciplines in his early discourses when he was taking camps, why did he stop later? Is OSho for discipline or against discipline? Its well assumed that Osho is for absolute freedom so isnt a disciplined life a contradiction to this?
I hope Swami Arun knows what he is doing.
Emily, something came up from your questioning. I read some interesting things about the political situation in Nepal, the issue has been flying through my mind like little birds once in a while, after a short walk in the moutains with my wife , I decided not to be shy and get into wikipedia to up date this real aspect of the Nepal environment. Note, So far no one has touched this point, let me know if you think that this matter may or may not be significant.
Dear Jacques,
My raising these questions has a few purposes behind them.
In the beginning I was very much skeptical about the disciplines when i heard of them, because its “assumed” that osho is not for discipline.
but i also found that it is quiet contradictory to Osho’s life itself. he was the most disciplined person himself. about his time, his work, his meals and everything.
And in many of Osho’s discourses i found him strongly supporting “self discipline”. through my own analysis i realized that this assumption that osho is against discipline is a misunderstanding. Osho is against imposed disciplines which give rise to hypocrisy.
so when these panchsheels were talked about so much, i was a little interested but also more skeptical.
because through i had understood that discipline is required for meditation, i was also confused about what the exact dsiciplines were. So i raised a few questions. But now after what chetana has said, it has become clear to me that the panchsheels are a compilation of the same quidelines that osho was talking about. i have myself found them in many osho books in different discourses and the panchsheel are the right conclusion of them all.
i ask the experience of those who follow it because im my self interested about it. and i say, “I hope Swami Arun knows what he is doing.” is becase i already see that this will raise alot of controversy against him since his advocating the panchsheel will hurt the assumptions of many that osho is not for discipline. i see that this really needs alot of courage on his part.
i am for the disciplines so i ask the experience of those who are practising it.
Yes Jacques this matter is really significant. And these are my opinions. Thank you so much that u raised it.
This one is from Sufi Wisdom
A man with a curio shop was trying to sell to a female tourist what he described as “a very important embossed-metal picture of the Last Supper.” I stood riveted to the spot when I heard her say, “What’s so wonderful about the Last Supper, anyway? Now if you had a picture of the First Supper, that might be something. Besides, when is the Next Supper?”
well Jacques,
u asked my opinion about panchsheel and i posted my opinion above. but wut r u tryin to say through ur sufi wisdom???
wut’s ur opinion about panchsheel Jacques???
and amrito, chetana, i would also like to know about your experience with Panchsheel, Chetana, thank you for all the information u provided. Made me more clear about the disciplines.
hey Emily,
Thanks for sharing.
My perspective is also very much similar to yours. I absolutely agree with you when you say “Osho was the most disciplined man”.
I’ve drifted between being completely “un-disciplined” and “disciplined”. I use these words with exclamation marks because I want to make it clear that it was not outter-imposed, but inner experiment.
When I live completely “un-disciplined”, for example: continuous periods of sleeping in till 10-11shh, watching tv/movies for hours, partying/drinking late nights—-i’m completely worn out and energy-less. I squeeze an Osho talk here and there, read a few lines on the net…but there is no way I can have energy for meditation. And, because I’ve experienced that meditation nourishes my being like nothing else, im frustrated because everything else just temporarily excites me.
So when I pull my self out of the rut and start meditation earlier in the morning, like Dynamic. Those so-called disciplines seem to place themselves naturally in order. No matter how much I try, eating meat and doing meditation at the same time always clashes. Drinking “excessively” and doing meditation can;t work (a glass of wine, or a beer or two are ok tho). Sleeping late nights are done with and those friends who no nothing better than binge drinking on weekends I take a break from.
So…when all those five things are in alignment,: meditation, food, company, sleep, and thirst for conciousness (enlightenment) grows and grows. Things seem to fit, trees seem a little greener, people seem a bit more interesting and dull moments become rarer.
But…the part that always drifts me back is when the fear of losing yourself is real, as if you are literally taken into a different planet from the rest of society. A subtle fear of an ego deathor simply the unknown….
Hence, a desire to be in atmosphere like Tapoban or the Meditation Resort, or Nisarga is strong…so that the comforting energy is there for protection…The Sangha. And so while I’m in Canada, the effort is to have a large meditation center/commune (http://www.osadhana.com)…
Nonetheless…i think when I drift, i’m drifting too much on either side…and I’m still trying to find the balance.
Hopefully this experience helped.
-Amrito
Frank Says:
“don`t forget the practical joke element of neo-sannyas.
osho said that he put his people in orange robes and gave them sannyas just to irritate the hindus,jains,buddhists et al.
it was a pie in the face of piety!”
I’m pretty sure it still pisses them off. Last time in Pune, a yogi priest near the burning ghats came up to me and just bitched and bitched about Osho. It was quite hilarious when he referenced Time Magazine or something “They said he was asdangerous as Hitler!.”
On the streets all over India I was still told to keep my mala inside!
Hmm…I think the maroon and mala still are needed to finish what Osho started!!
I love the Osho photos available on line. They are powerful. When one looks at Osho’s images, it invokes the feeling of being in his presence. There is something inexpressible and it’s our destiny. Don’t allow anyone to get in the way!
Remember the inexpressible every moment… with every breath.
Amrito wrote :
“I’ve drifted between being completely “un-disciplined” and “disciplined”. I use these words with exclamation marks because I want to make it clear that it was not outter-imposed, but inner experiment.”
If it is done as part of inner experiment, then you are taking responsibility and growing.
What I worry about is if the panchsheels are done mindlessly like “Every christian must go to church every sunday.” That is the danger of having panchsheels.
Emily, Any problems with humor? I was asking about the political situation of the country Nepal…. Not about the discipline situation of some in Nepal……………..
If pancheels work for people fine…
I had my share of discipline when I joined the scouts 40 years ago. I had a good time too.
Amrito why do you need to go around getting yogis upset? Is that going to improve your Karma.
Alok John, going to mass on Sunday is a very nice discipline. Some of the parish goers go because is a matter of Faith, Why not.
Does that interfere with your panchheels?.
Jacques,
I think the answer is that Osho is not in favour of faith, especially “blind faith”, or belief. You must find spiritual things out through your own experience and then you do not need faith, you know.
Jacques…you must be kidding…haha
Me getting yogis upset?? I dont know about my karma, but I think i’m helping their’s given the fact they can still get “upset”. Perhaps they may even gain awareness.
Alok John,
Precisely, You do not know if some of the ones that go to Church on Sunday have blind believe or not. We are not to judge on those subjective matters. Clearly,
If I make a reference to these issues is because my own personal experience, I have my own criteria, not borrowed, You do not know weather Osho was or not in favour or Faith, or do you?
Faith simply is, blind belief is a conditioning.
Jacques,
see here for Osho on faith
http://www.spirituallyincorrect.com/Spirit11.htm
And ten non-Commandments here..
http://www.spirituallyincorrect.com/page2.htm
Some nice quotes on this old site from 99
Namaste Alok John, check the meaning of that.
Namaste means I salute the God in You.
Now tell if that is not Faith.
surely meditation is supposed to be fun?
sitting or standing or lying down doing nothing is going to get you something or get you somewhere?
do people dance to get to a particular place on the dance floor?
the discipline of the one who loves something is so different from the self-struggling army/religion style discipline,where discipline is just one part of your self dissing another.!
if you love south indian food it will not be hard to be vegetarian,
but if you are a steak-lovin good ol` boy,you may have to fight with yourself to be veggie.
its probably best to do what you love,then the discipline thing is taken care of.
like osho.
he stuck with the fun-damentals.
reading books,keeping his library and cars neat,loafing about in his room,growing his beard,going swimming,talking to people,getting dressed up,telling tall stories,playing practical jokes,annoying people……
Now if you shake hands, it means my dagger is not of danger to you. If you wave your hand your aknowledge the presence of the other person, If you do not greet any in anyway is because your are simply not interested, If you kiss on the check, different times in different cultures, it means, hi you are cute and I respect you.
While I though those angels in the religiously incorrect page, you so kindly sent, were cute.
Read The Mustard Seed, The Godspell according to Thomas, and then send me pages on all the things that Osho wrote on Jesus, We might have a truly fun time.
Frank, meditation to me is doing or not doing with awareness.
Frank, Yes important note. Meditation to me is doing or not doing with awareness – is a treasure that I learned from Osho.
Amrito,
“On the streets all over India I was still told to keep my mala inside!”
You mean everyone in India recognises the mala? Teenagers born after his death as well?
yes many people still consider OSHO a four letter word.
with franks alternative identities there can be no honesty in the chat here..and in this situation it is worthless for honest people to reply. I suggest other options for chat like sarlo’s yahoo chat .. living osho where people have only one identity and comments and opinions are more honestly reflected.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LivingOsho/?yguid=323031560
this chat is well run and frequented by honest people and not falsificatations.
swami, great so found your sharing nitch ! Maybe if Frank would choose a Sannyas name, you would not consider him or any of us to be a falsification. ……..
Now the articles may not adjust quite so to math, but the page makes it very clear about its concerns. Thank you for the address, I now that some people will find good honest advice, It is an Osho page isnit.
Amrito, I just read your reply, remember I am in a very different time zone from you, and my computer internet hook up is very slow, so some of the answer do not get loaded immediately, or so, so Yes, Yogis love to get upset. Specially when someone remarks funny things about yoga. I have some very nice yogi friends and I do not have any criticism on their practice.
frank has admitted to editing under multiple names here . People only do this for disruptive devious means. this is an osho site but there is no check on the people editing here.
As I said the falseness surroundind the chat here makes it worthless.On the site I linked too you are checked and can have only one identity.
Why was this article removed from sannyasnews and re-included with a different title??? Was there any notification frm anywhere? interesting!
yes? check this out.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n0by/message/368
swami,
i read the report on the above link…. please clarify!
was sannyasnews really hacked and why? when it was hacked this “new momentum” article was missing from this site, now it has a different title?/?
is it still hacked???
yes sannyas news has been attacked b4 .. more than once.
on the occasion I am familiar with whole threads went missing. .
I’m unsure what has occured this time.
you should ask Parmartha to comment.’
“Whatsoever I say is only a suggestion. It is not a prescription and you are not to follow it, because then I become the authority and I start forcing my ideas of happiness on you, and it goes on and on and on. These are just my suggestions. If you feel—and you have to feel—do them. Do them because you feel they are right, not because I have said them….
If you cannot decide, consult the I Ching! wobble22
Whenever you come across something in my words which is going against your experience in any way, immediately come and check it, because I am saying so many things to so many people and each person is so different….
So whenever something goes against your grain, then immediately check. If something is going with your grain and everything is flowing, there is no need to check; then it is for you. But the ultimate criterion is your experience. bite11
Many people, particularly Indians, write to me asking why I am not giving a certain discipline to my sannyasins. I cannot—I am not their enemy. I am not in any way here to dominate anybody, I am not here to dictate. I can help you to understand, then it is up to you. Out of your understanding if something happens in your life, good, but if it happens because I have said it then it is ugly. Then sooner or later you will repent, then sooner or later you will take revenge on me.
I am your friend. I can help you to be more alert; that’s my whole function. And then whatsoever is good follows so silently, just like your shadow. It makes no noise and it does not give any ego to you. As you become more aware, all ego disappears. You become more and more humble, more and more simple, more and more ordinary. And that ordinariness is divine, that simplicity is sacred. But discipline has to arise in you. I can commune with you my understanding, I can share with you my experience, that’s all; then it is for you to decide what to do and what not to do.
My sannyasins have to learn how to live in freedom. I know it is very difficult for you too—even my sannyasins ask: “If you give us definite rules it will be easier for us to follow them.” I know it will be easier because that’s what you have been doing your whole life. Somebody has been giving you orders and you have been following; that has become your habit. You would like me also to be a father figure, just to tell you that this has to be done and this has not to be done. That makes things cheap and simple you need not bother, you can simply depend on me. But that creates dependence and you lose something immensely valuable: you lose your freedom, you lose your independence, you lose your individuality, you lose yourself. And that is not my purpose here.
My purpose here is to make you more and more unique individuals, more and more authentic individuals. I would like you to take the responsibility of your life upon your own shoulders totally so that you become completely free of all kinds of father figures. That brings great blessing and great benediction. ggate102″
Beloved Alok, in the same spirit Arun sw advises…better come to camps and ask all Q yourself.
There is no violence, well, I am sure you know it.
Only suggestions and love
Arun sw is in UK from 15 to 31 Aug. Camp on bank hol in Croydon Hall
With love
Chetna
jai ho jai ho. hamare bhagwan ke naam ho raha hai. sunkar dil ko aaram ho raha hai. prem and pranam
Chetna dear,
Where is Shantam Prem,
Without him, the stage is half decorated ???