A Revolutionary’s take on Ashrams/Organisations
An interesting question Osho was asked in Poona One is below, and an equally interesting answer!
Question –
If you were to come here now to this Ashram as a young unenlightened man, how would you respond? Would you become part of the Ashram? What work would you do? Where would you sit?
Answer –
Even if I was unenlightened, I would not be so unenlightened as to come to this Ashram! That much is certain. I would not be that much unenlightened.
Second thing you say – “Would you become part of the Ashram?” Even now I am not part of this ashram. I can not be part of any institution or any organization, even my own.
And if I had come as an unenlightened man, naturally the Ashram will not be mine, will be somebody else’s. I can not be part of even my own organisation, so how can I be a part of anybody else’s organisation? Impossible.
And then you ask – “What work would you do?”
I have never done any work. I am the laziest man in world you can find.
And the last you ask – “Where would you sit?”
I would escape immediately! I would see an organization, some Ashram, and I would run!
So, let us shut the gates of the ashram(ups! resort)or sell it to Donald Trump, he can open a meditative casino for the likes Of Lindsy Lohan and Paris Hilton.
I am sure Osho will be happier with this development, he loves to be in the news and to be a far out Master.
this is interesting and funny, but are we to copy osho? of course not. osho says he met bodhidharma in a previous life and was asked to stay with him, but he did not.
i think i would have. and i went to the the ashram (poona 1) and guess who was there? some dude named bhagwan. did i run away fast? hell, no, i got as close as i could. and checked out the stuff he was recommending (meditations, groups, sannyas)
osho said he was lazy, but he worked as a professor, journalist, teacher of meditation. he travelled for years and when he stopped travelling he talked every day for hours for years. he read just about everything and not for his own enjoyment. his own preference would be silence and doing nothing, and yet he worked.
once again, he is contradicting himself, if taken intellectually, words only. we must go deeper to truly understand him and ourselves.
didn´t osho sometimes tell stories about monks, who got enlightened and had to flee their monasteries in order not to get killed by jealous other monks there ?
Yes read that recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&v=f3zUYK4YU8M
I agree with Sugit. This answer was fun at the time in the seventies, and a good wake up call for all those self-important egos waltzing around the ashram thinking they were so much better than anyone else, especially those outside the ashram! I remember at the time it was a real gossip/talkign point for many people hanging out in the ashram, and many working there.
Some of them felt that somehow they were close to enlightenment itself, just by being physically close to the Master. Such nonsense.
There is some kind of buried truth in this also. That is the need to (finally) make steps of such enormity totally alone.
The master may take your hand to the shore of the lake, but only you will be able to cross it, and alone, irrespective of the weather!
Leaving an ashram/commune may be even more momentous than finding it in the first place. But both are necessary, I would say, for most real seekers.
Well, I really think the egg came first. Osho was laughing so hard at the idea of creating his Sannyasins and the Ashram, he laid one.
The answers Osho gave in the quote above were not just a joke born out of the spirit of the time, they simply are true! It is very simple: Enlightenment is just humbug. At the best a fiction to make fools move their asses and to create a space for freedom. This is also why you find all kinds of contradictions in Oshos statements. That’s also why Osho never cared about the future and that’s why the so called resort and todays fights are just absurd. These words were spoken before the game went out of his hands and before he could not resist his narcistic and megalomanic tendencies, ending up as an irresponsible drug addict. All of todays well intended trust holders are just sad grave diggers. Hopeless cases. Without any relevance to the world. Live is so strong. Death is so stong. No way to escape. Those in Poona and around the world could show at least some understanding and guts and also a little gratitude by letting go of all the absurd fights, shutting down the remaining institutions and legal structures. Like Krishnamurti did. That would be a great hearted way, to give it all back to the world. Just imagine. But I know this call won’t be heard. Dead institutions are kept alive out of fear. And that’s not new at all. This is a very old story. A sad story. That is also why all the intelligent ones have left the “movement” long before. I am sorry for those who still cling to the past, because they waste their lives.
“Atisha is giving you a great insight. Particularly for my sannyasins it has to be remembered, meditated upon. THE BUDDHA IS HERE, THE COMMUNE HAS STARTED HAPPENING, THE TRUTH IS BEING SHARED. Now it is up to you to HELP IT SURVIVE, to PROTECT IT, so that it can live long and serve humanity long.”
OSHO
The Book of Wisdom
Yes Osho laid the biggest egg of them all. Oh and what a beautiful egg it is. All his sannyasins hatch as ugly ducklings. Osho says ‘ Quack Quack” and all his true lovers follow to the river. Then one day Osho’s ugly hatchlings turn into beautiful swans and disappear. Right now all the other black little ducks are still climbing the slippery banks and learning to swim. Awaiting the day until they too disappear.
Andreas, its obvious that you’re still stuck in your own mind games, otherwise why would you continually be visiting this site again and again.
It seems to a bit of fetish, the Calder fetish, where no matter how much you try to spread rubbish about Osho, you can’t seem to leave him. Quite the paradox.
Good luck,
Amrito
My god!. Andreas Roth again! I thought I had left him behind in the other forum… and it was a beautiful ending.
When I read his name I could not resist the temptation to argue again!
Andreas you have not been to pune in the last years, so you have really no idea what goes on there except for what you read in these forums. I was there last year and it is a great place for meditation, beyond Osho: People go from all over the world to meditate and have an adventure of self exploration.Osho remains as an inspiration , but that is all. 80 % of the people are not sannyasins. as Osho himself once said ” If you come here you will not find any guru… you will find yourself”. (The way of the heart)
second… you seem to have a really hard time letting go yourself. what the hell are you doing reading and writing in these forums full of cultists who can not let go of the past? get a life man. You have a beautiful center in Germany, a nice wife… and its not winter there, so you can have a nice trekking in the property. Leave this forum for blind followers like us!
good to hear from you again!
Anthony
yo…….
two ton tony `bonecrusher` thompson -`the hispanic causing panic`
you just could wait for a rematch with andreas `aging bull` `the panzer` roth could you?
seconds away,
round two
may the best man win……
after his comprehensive trouncing of the one-dimensional christopher `the truth` calder on points,bonecrusher thompson,now the undisputed heavyweight and pound for pound champion osho expert of the world is talking tough…..
will andreas `aging bull` `rocky` roth rise to the bait?
or is he in his nice comfortable europad,dealing with more challenging issues such as his wife nagging him about leaving the toilet seat up?
Amrito, you may not be aware of it, but you proof all of my views and arguments. Without argument you denote anything as rubbish which you don’t like to hear. Second, I have nothing to do with Calder. I stand for myself. But I share my view with many others, who have an uncorrupted mind and a little sensitivity. Third, I have “left” Osho long before (round about 1985). Actually leaving is a completely wrong notation. It is an ongoing live and Osho certainly had influence on my live. But something went wrong. And I am not alone with my experinces and feelings. And this debate is also an ongoing process, many are involved, just have a look at the contributions on this web site. And the debate will go on as long as things are hidden. If there is a climate of fetish, it is definitely not on my side. I rarely have a look on sannyas pages, as I have other things to do and I never commented on this site which is quite an open site. But the quote we talk about here, is significant to me and it is published as a topic on this site because of it’s significance! I have always looked and listened directly to Osho: Could you imagine Osho as disciple of another “master”? Can you imagine Osho in red with a “mala” combined with a picture of somebody else around his neck? I cannot. Osho played a terrific game, he stressed a psychological revolution, the nature of the mind, meditation, human relationships and how to enact positive change. But since the time in Orgeon he had lost track. An inarguable violation of basic human values. But even then, failiure is a human incident, if you understand and change things, like Krishnamrti did when he destoyed the “Order of the Star”, an organistation which was created to support him. The tragedy is, that this did not happen around Osho, because Osho had created a game in which he was master of masters. If you are cocooning youselfs in an unreal wold, it is up to you, your live just looses significance. But if you go into public, you have to take stick and comment. If you are not able to stand that, you make yourself a fool, like old stalinists in Russia who even today think, that the mass murderer Stalin was a hero. The “Oudside world” can see this things quiet easily, only the “insiders” seem to have lost their minds. Repeating Oshos game, is not very creative. Parrotlike and selfconfident arrogance is a typical byproduct of religion. You obviously think that loosing your mind is a precondition for enlightenment, as Osho told you, otherwise how could you argue the way you do. But this is just a strategy to keep control. I am not against religious perception, because we are sourrounded by wonder. But I am against religion because it tells people to give up in trying to understand the world and themselfs and I am against all the lies which are created in the context of the origin of a religion.
Andreas Roth
bonecrusher thompson is on the ropes….
what a blow….he seems to have lost his mind…
it could be enlightenment…
a left and a sharp right…
he must be regretting his parrotlike arrogance before the fight…
rocky roth is in complete control…
he`s the master…
my god,bonecrusher thompson is down…
5…6….7….8….9…………….
Hi frank, great comment, but as a good sports reporter you must have observed that my sharp right was not for Thompson but for Amrito. Thomson has not entered the arena yet. His bravado was far beyond his capacity, not even a warm up. You may have heard that real zenfighters observe, they do not react, and they have no intention to fight, their motive is ulterior…
also sprach rockythustra……….
Andreas you say:
“Amrito, you may not be aware of it, but you proof all of my views and arguments”
Hehe. I do eh? You should’ve hired me for these “random” Osho bashing gigs a long time ago than!
If I alone prove your “arguments” on why your life has turned into a bitter struggle with the past, its quite the argument I must say. What do you do sir? You simply spew your dissatisfaction with Osho after the “Oregon” era, and I have already given you my full-response on a previous vomit of yours:
http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174
Please scroll down and read it if you havent before stating that I simply renounce you because I don’t like hearing what you say. It’s not the fact that I don’t like “what” you say, its the arrogant way you say it.
You seem to have a crusader mind about you, whether its Osho or anti-Osho, you state:
“The “Oudside world” can see this things quiet easily, only the “insiders” seem to have lost their minds”
As if you’re the spokesman for clarity. You judge based on your perceptions of “failures”, however, I’m sure many have felt tremendous gratitude for Osho, and his influence. Yet you’re quick to call them cultists and brainwashed. The real question is who allowed you to believe being brainwashed was a forceable phenomenon? Especially when many of the people that went to Osho were in there late adolescent years and had most of the perminent conditionings while they were kids.
You simply were the type who got “brainwashed” and allowed it, and now you’re taking revenge for it ever happening. You’re currenlty “brainwashed” by a school of thought that wants to dismiss any and all aspects of Osho’s contribution and vision because of a few power-hungry organizers who “seemed” to be close to him.
“I rarely have a look on sannyas pages, as I have other things to do and I never commented on this site which is quite an open site”
What are you trying to prove by this statement? That you’re in someway just obliged to comment here. I’m not against you commenting, because it is quite an open site, however, its as open for me to disagree with your point of views.
Again,
Good Luck.
Amrito
But I do agree with this part:
“But I am against religion because it tells people to give up in trying to understand the world and themselfs and I am against all the lies which are created in the context of the origin of a religion.”
You must still be deeply influenced by Osho, because what you have just said is what I have imbibed every time I read Osho:
“Know thyself”
-Amrito
Amrito, you are right, I commented on an article about 17 month ago about somebody visiting the “ranch” after many years. I simply have forgotten. Excuse me. I even did not read the subsequent thread of that comment (but did that today as you reminded me). My statement was a reply to your assertion that I was continually be visiting this site. I rarely do. I have no struggle with the past and in my day to day life I do not think about Osho. But I am interested in the substance of what Osho said in the quote above, because it seems relevant for today.
I also think that this site is not meant for personal confrontations and it is not my intention to do so. Unfortunately Oshoites, even today, have a special tone and stile of personal assault which often is below the belt, like: “its obvious that you’re still stuck in your own mind games, otherwise why would you continually be visiting this site again and again”. Or Anthonies “you seem to have a really hard time letting go yourself. what the hell are you doing reading and writing in these forums full of cultists who can not let go of the past? get a life man. You have a beautiful center in Germany, a nice wife… and its not winter there, so you can have a nice trekking in the property!”. This stile IS cultlike, it will fit in most cult structures. I hope Amrito, you see and feel that this is not only unnecessarily dicrediting others, it falls back to you. The publishers of this site established it as an open site. If they had prefered to make it an insiders forum they might controlle it with a password protected member access. I do not intend to insult you or anybody else, but certainIy you may risk an answer the way you address me.
What I wrote is not only about Osho. I state similar things elsewhere and in different context. The phenonema is not related to Osho alone. Brainwashing for example must not necessarily be practiced the way like they did in Vietnam or during the “cultural revolution”. It is practiced in a refined way today nearly everwhere you go. Just have a look at the media, look at politics, at the economy, at religions… yet most people will not think they are brainwashed. Brainwashing is a way to control others, to make them think the way you want them to think and to make them act on your behalf. And the best way to do that, is in such a way that people do not realize it. Many have stept foreward and tried to destroy all that nonsens… an impossible task as it seems, as people love irresponsible and tranquilizing entertainment. The crazy thing is, that Osho attacked excactly this nonsense, but on the other hand extensively used it for his own puposes, just on a much wider range than it is usually used in society. He was an incredibly gifted man and many things he said are just pure poetry. But he also used his talents for all kinds of manipulations. Osho seems to have decided very early to USE nonsens, instead of directly fighting it, including all kinds of esoteric fairy tales you can think of… but even if you are a genius, it fires back. Not even a “enlightened” man can do that in the long run, without lying, hiding and in the end repressing truth. That’s also why the resort in Poona has turned into a boring business… If you are going to a zen monastery and ask about enlightenment you will be laughed at or even beaten, because those who put all that talk on stage are businesmen… certainly the world has not come to an end, and the US west coast was not destroyed by earthquakes yet, nor did 2 thirds of the chinese become sannyasins as Osho predicted… in my eyes all of this mumbo jumbo is not necesarry.
“certainly the world has not come to an end, and the US west coast was not destroyed by earthquakes yet, nor did 2 thirds of the chinese become sannyasins as Osho predicted”
But Andreas, how is that you deduct Osho to these petty things? One essential part of Osho was that his words are not the main point because many times they are contridictary. The lesson behind the words was witnessing, meditation and awareness.
Now with words alone Osho is missing, and you can correctly analyze your assertations that he was a notradamous making silly predictions. And some of those major predictions were from Sheela’s mouth as well. Nonetheless, if Osho had said the US West Coast was to be destroyed by Earthquakes, is the purpose of this statement soley for people to recognize him as an astrolger? No. Osho’s love for nature, the environment and sustainability.
David Sezuki has proclaimed many times that the end is near, and we’re at the last percent of civilization and little hope is left. Is he saying this because he’s a psychich and smart scientist? No, he’s basically using shock to get people to wake up.
The same way someone has to yell in your ear and tell you there’s a million bucks waiting outside the house for you, when you’ll suddenly jump out of bed and run outside. Only when you’re outside the house will you realize its burning, but do you blame your friend for whispering a lie to get you out?
As I understand Osho, his intention is not to manipulate people for his own gain, but for their own understanding and awareness. However, this understanding of mine won’t be forced on you, the way you’re forcing your understanding that Osho was a good-for-nothing con-man.
So, I don’t need to look at how Pune or others are representing Osho because to me Osho needs no representation or priesthood.
Love,
Amrito
amrito,
i dont hear that andreas is saying osho was a good for nothing conman.sounds a bit more complex than that.
but…
“i am a con-man.you cannot con me.i have conned so many con-men”
—osho,notes of a madman.
sheela stung him bad tho`.
please guys… make some space.
Andreas. First. To call others stuck in the past when you are here is simply ridiculous… lets just admit we are all stuck on this subject and stop pretending we are somehow beyond the need to discuss here.
Second. Roth you seem well intentioned but, as you well described it some time before, naive. You do not see the difference between elaborating theories about a phenomena and the actual phenomenological description of that phenomena. And for the later you need to be there to do so. You need to be an eyewitness. And all the points that you discuss in your article are taken from other people´s articles. You are no eyewitness to such events.
Calder had the same problem, he gathered tons of information from different sources,and then created a story. A story he was never a witness to. A story he never lived. Actually you had more experience with the Osho´s world than calder ever had. He left his full involment in 74. he was never a mile close to the stories he tells. He just got them from the same books as you did. And the problem with this is that if I am quoting someone else, it is intellectual honesty to point to the reference. Calder´s article does not have a single quote ( no even osho`s, which is just lazyness the whole archive is in the net) and that is why he got so angry with me. Because I could see he was getting things from The oregonian as if it was first hand knowledge. And the thing is i can say whatever, but if I am saying I am married to a mermaid… I need to supply a better proof for that than Ulises story. And that is what he does
Finally his own mind betryed him he said he could see osho was drugged in the stage at the ranch. So his perception became his way of proof. Then mixed stuff with his theories about the fatigue sindrome and the thalium poisong and NO2…bla, bla. But he never said: I think, it is my guess that this and that happenned, No, he said this is the truth and that is bullshit . he knows nothing, he just read it… and so do you.
In your own article you commit the same mistake. My advise is: every thought or story that is not your own you need to write down the reference. And every thought or idea that you have, has to begin with: I think, I understand, or my vison is…
You once said i was pretending to be scientific. To be scientific does not mean to be objective. Objectivity does not exist.Every scientific research is partial and has to do with the researcher´s mind. To be scientific means to be rigourous in the research, the collecting of the data and the sharing of the information. Which is where you fail too.
I am, in a way, in the same case: I know nothing: I was with osho in pune 88-89 and visited the place 9 times after that, But the stories happenened before that time. I simple conducted interviews and research, but I have the intellectual honesty to admit it and suplly my sources. And that makes me a far more reliable source of information than you and calder.
Finally, The main point is. to learn to make the distinction between your own understanding of what happened ( to which you are entitled) and facts. for the
late…. reading some books and some articles from the Oregonian newspaper… is just not good enough.
unless, of course, you fill your article with quotes and references… which so far you have not done.
and as an old friend… I suggest to you… do it! it will look more credible!
Greetings
Anthony
One last point , simply for psychological reference.
As a psychotherapist, professor of psychology and research scientist, I can state that brainwashing as a psychological process simply does not exist. this is just a mass media idea with no psychological base whatsoever.
It is absolutely impossible to condition, to program an adult without his permission. The idea of brainwashing has been used by people who subscribed to a particular ideology and then repented from doing so. Brainwashing was the word used to take no responsibility for his7 her previous acts or ideas while subscribed to that particular belief system. that is all.
No brain can be washed. there is not such a thing… you can not even be be hypnotized without your permission.
greetings
anthony
the internet is a fine place for these people like roth and indeed calder and others..It is so easy for them to spout their negativity and lack of understanding. They sit in front of their computer and say whatever shite they want, they talk like they are so superior , like if you went to a zen monestry and mentioned this they would do this…its rubbish , they are walter mitty book readers..and they say osho was wrong when he did this and I understand..
they are fools and they spread their foolishness as if it is intelligence.
Is is clear they experianced no insight of their own and that is one of the reasons they come continually to spout their shite.. and it cant be deleted even though it is shite..that is why they come.
and they missed their chance so they come in an attempt to spread their missed chances .
I would like to say to him and any of the other internet chancers …that they will never be able to take away the pure bliss that I experienced as I sat in total surrender in the presence of my beloved master Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, Osho. My whole life has been worthy of those few moments of oneness and bliss.
they`re queing up to thump the hapless rockythustra now,
that one from amrito is way below the belt,
twoton tony takes a chunk out of his ear,
they are stamping him as they bellow about their bliss.
boys and religion eh?
what`s that all about?
come on you reds………..
Yes Frank, sadly yes, this is religion.
Anthony repeated from another thread by copy and paste and I have responded to this already. What made me very sad is, that I found a statement of Anthony these days, which he made AFTER a long discussion we had before: “None of what MR. Roth says is his personal experience. As all of us he is quoting the Oregonian, satya bharti, shiva, … etc, He has just read the literature around Osho and come up with his own understanding…”. He also states. “When I asked him for a personal truth… actual, factual experience. He had none.” Now if this is the outcome, what to do? Actually it is vice versa. He is twisting it all. This is not fair play. I did not only give many details, I repeatedly have told Anthony, and also have written in an article which he read, that I was in Poona I and in Oregon during a great deal of the time I describe and even in Poona II (after Oshos death, on various travels throughout Asia) and I have lived in various communes at that time too. What can I do? I know he has a heart. But this cold sophisticated talk reminds me of reborn christians, who support creationism to defend their epiphany. Somehow the same approach, simmilar story.
To swami I want to say that I am not “these people”. I just have tears in my eyes if I read that kind of statements. You can talk to me directly. I also have to say that I was in a zen monastery and I even don’t know what walter mitty books are. Also I do not neglect your experience sitting in surrender in the presence of Bhagwan. But we cannot remain children forever. Fairy tales have a purpose and deep impact. But if we are grown up we may understand fairy tales in a different way.
rockythustra comes back off the ropes!
he delivers an uppercut that takes two ton tony`s front truth clean out…
bonecrusher tony`s taunts and chants of “you were never there” sound hollow now as it turns out that he himself was the one who was never there.
what`s this?
tony`s pants have actually fallen down.
he is fighting with his shorts round his ankles,looking for all the world lke a one-legged narcoleptic in an arse-kicking contest.
the crowd is going wild…
he looks to be heading for the title of “former heavyweight champion osho expert of the world”…..
will bonecrusher tony be able to go the distance…..?
Frank you make me laugh. actually, waiting for your responses is one of my main incentives to be here.
Andreas, I never said you were not in pune one, or the ranch or in pune two. I just said you are not an eyewitness to the events you discuss. You got them from the books you mentioned.
You were at the end of pune one, were a resident of a European commune, and visited the ranch and pune two, but you found out about the allegations of your article through the press and the books you read.
This is symptomatic. Now you are giving your understanding and opinion of what is happening now in pune and you have not been there lately.
This is my point: you confuse your own understanding with facts.
When we begun discussing a year ago in the other forum, you called me liar. I asked you for personal proofs and you quoted satya bharti, shiva… etc.
Yes, I copied and pasted…after all, it is the same story. it does not need a fresh answer.
Still you do not answer what the heck are you doing in this forum if you are beyond all this?
greetings
anthony
Some more points. Frank, I have never claimed to be an eyewitness to anything: I have always claimed to be a research scholler who has interviewed people directly involved in all the stories. And what I have got is a very different version from actual eyewitnesses. That is all.
And this is my intellectual honesty.I am an expert, not a witness. And so, is Calder and Roth. And this is my main Point. to have been in pune or the ranch does not make anyone a witness unless they were there to experience and see what they claim.
If Roth says in his article that Osho new about Sheela´s crimes, quoting ( without actually quoting) what Satya bharti heard Deeksha say ,is not a first hand proof. Then why not write ” I read in so and so book that the author heard…bla, bla. And that related to my own experience, I think it could be true…” This is intellectual honesty! Not to state those ideas as facts. that is all I have been asking.
…and the curiosity of why someone who has let all this behind is interested in discussing in this forum and calling people stuck.
greetings
anthony
One final..
Andreas you say: ” I know he has a heart. But this cold sophisticated talk reminds me of reborn christians,”
I do not mean to be cold and distant. You know I love you since the time you were MR. Bernstein. It is just that this is my part of this leela. You know that behind the curtain you and I have a drink together. so no need to feel hurt with my coldness.
I adore Germans…they are so sincere. I respect that.
Ok enough for now… lets continue the game.
anthony
Frank, sorry that we can’t have a real cup of tea together… I laughed about your reports from the arena. Thanks and have a good time there… Samuel Beckett says communication is impossible. At least it’s tough business:
Giovanni bumps into his friend Alfredo on the streets of Rome, and notices that his friend is looking very depressed.
“How was your holiday in-a Miami Beach?” he asks.
“Mama mia” replies Alfredo. “It was-a terrible. I go-a to Miami and check into-a bigg-a hotel. In-a the morning I go down to eat-a breakfast. I tell-a the waitress, ‘I wanna two pissis-a toast.’ She bring only one piss. I tell-a her, ‘I want two piss.‘ She say, ‘Go to the toilet.’
“I say, ‘You no understand, I wanna two piss on-a the plate.’
“She say. ‘You better no piss on da plate, you sonna va bitch.’ I don’t even know the lady and she call me sonna va bitch!
“Later I go eat at the bigga restaurant. The waitress brings me a spoon and knife but no fock. I tell-a her, ‘I wanna fock.’ She tell me, ‘Everybody wanna fuck.’
“I tell her, ‘You no understand. I wanna fock on da table.’
“She say, ‘You better not fuck on-a table, you sonna va bitch.’
“So I go back to my room in-a hotel and there is no shits on-a my bed. I call the manager and tell-a him, ‘I wanna shit.’ He tell me to go to the toilet. I say, ‘You not understand. I wanna shit on my bed.’
“He say, ‘You better not shit on-a bed, you sonna va bitch.’
“I go to the check-out desk and the man at the desk say, ‘Happy Holidays, Peace to you.’
“I say, ‘Piss on you too, you sonna va bitch, I gonna go back to Italy.”
So, I am back to work.
Andreas
Andreas. Are you ignoring me on purpose?
anthony
Andreas. Are you ignoring me on purpose?
mmmH?
anthony
isn´t this the true spirit of sannyas? Andreas, Anthony, and Frank. You guys make Osho´s dream come true: humor , intelligence, sharpness and a spirit of enquire.
Not like those sheeps of Arun´s cirlcle.
Osho would have sat with you guys and have a laugh.
or perhaps share some of his NO2 with you three.
yea i can see you all snoring some laughing gas and discussing the nature of the universe…
Keep on going guys! and Andreas… do not ignore Anthony… if you do, this funny game is over. You and Frank buttereing each others back just doesn´t do it.
love
shanti
“lovers and enemies dont finally meet,they are in each other all along”
-frank rumi
and while we`re on samuel becket,remember:
“nothing is better than nothing”
ha ha ha…you guys..all of you….amrito and rest of you…get a job…………..osho is dead…..fucking move on….
Life is now here….osho is nowhere!
You are here…he is gone…bye bye…
my god, I wanted to end and now shanti has completely ruined my tough decision
so here we go…
I do not reject you Anthony, but I was trying to avoid you. You simply are too complicated for me. Why don’t you just stand by Osho. Or write a short poem. That would be more convincing to me than this professor game. As I see it, you would have had a hard time in Poona and a fucking hard time in Oregon. If you had risked and not avoided that time, you might have no problem, to tell it like it was from your own experience. In fact I think, in that case you even might be tougher than Calder today. Meanwhile I cannot reason with you as it seams. Sophistry is something which Osho deeply declined. Theoretical tricks don’t help. They will just ruin your reputaion as a professor (maybe that’s not impotant to you any more today, but it was before, when you did not become a sannyasin). I am not going on this track anymore, as it takes too much time and it does not work (in the sense in which Buddha defined truth). I leave the discussion to the historians (who actually don’t care). But I think we have to learn from the past and not hide it, because to hide it, is an ultimate defeat and completely stupid. Precious time changes all the time. And meeting with real men is closer to life than the internet. And there are no girls here on this site either. That’s why I really have to end here – except Anthony writes a poem or a haiku which really turns me on
Have a good time guys.
“vista // May 11, 2009 at 11:16 pm
ha ha ha…you guys..all of you….amrito and rest of you…get a job…………..osho is dead…..fucking move on….
Life is now here….osho is nowhere!
You are here…he is gone…bye bye…”
Haha. Thanks Guru Vista for your words of incomprehensible wisdom. A few things:
1) Job: Got that, thanks for looking out for me tho.
This is not a debate about where Osho is, if that’s what it sounded like to you. Everyone will have their own experience of energy or “osho energy” if you want to call it that.
However, there is an arrogance about which some of the commentators including yourself Vista, which seems to proclaim any resonance of the Master-Desciple relationship as pathetic.
It’s quite the assumption from Shanti to be calling people “sheep” just because they feel a certain respect for Sw. Arun.
But, I;ll let all the Know-It-All’s decide whos champ and whos chump, but in the meantime:
OSHO, YES, OSHO, YES. THERE IS NO MORE BOTTLE, NO MORE YOU, NO MORE I, ONLY THIS DRUNKEN JOY THAT MAKES MY TOES CURL IN ECSTASY. BUT, OSHO… WHAT WAS THE JOKE?
Yoga Lalita, the ultimate joke, the only joke….
The official, Riko, once asked Nansen to explain to him the old problem of the goose in the bottle.
“If a man puts a gosling into a bottle,” said Riko, “and feeds him until he is full-grown, how can the man get the goose out without killing it or breaking the bottle?”
Nansen gave a great clap with his hands and shouted, “Riko!”
“Yes, Master,” said the official with a start.
“See,” said Nansen, “the goose is out.”
This is the only ultimate joke in existence. You are enlightened. You are Buddhas — pretending not to be, pretending to be somebody else. And my whole work here is to expose you.
OSHO
I feel deeply offended by your comment Andreas about the fact that “there are no girls here”. I am a girl… a woman…a Danish one.And if you saw me you would probably want to have more than the cup of coffee you invited frank to.
I love intelligent witty men. That is why I have been impressed by Anthony, Frank and your self. Actually I invited frank and Anthony to a meeting some time ago, but Frankie declined. what to do!
Don´t be so serious! arguing and discussing is a beautiful game to watch… I am not so good at it myself. But it turns me on to see guys doing so. besides, I feel far more identified by this style of sannyas, than that of a devotional one. No intention to be arrogant Amrito, just sharing my truth.
And forgive poor Anthony. he is a professor, what can he do?! At least he has the humbleness to request your attention… anotherwise this game, leela, as he calls it, is just not fun for anyone.
and Frank… BE a man accept my invitation!!
Love shanti
so, to avoid rejection here it goes: I am not good for haikus or poetry…
Andreas you thought
your thought was truth
the nature of truth
Fact and thought
Both confused
Awareness of the gap
difference between
observation
and interpretation
Interpretation from books
experience not enough
Andreas jump into the pond
plop!
I tried my best. I hope this way I am understood.
Greetings
anthony
3 Haikus for Anthony:
How easily
thoughts drown the sound
of rain and wind.
Cool autumn wind.
Freedom, -
just a agonizing dream.
My old zafu,
seeing it,
I rejoice.
(bad translation from German)
To Shanti:
A beautiful name you have, – and female certainly. Confident, danish and turned on by discussion, and quiet a frank women you seem to be, inviting frank so frankly, no wonder that he became afraid (maybe he is a spotty celibate, you never know). Hope at least Anthony did not decline your invitation
Andreas
haikus all round,then:
the osho expert
who seems to be here,
in plain fact was never there
the danish nymphette
calls from beneath the sheets
on a warm summer day
tiring of kicking ass
raging bull lies down
in the long grass and chills
the spotty celibate
scratches his spots
and writes one more haiku
-there!
This is exactly what I did n´t need: The three of you turning into some sissies
come on guys…get on with it… show your teeth!
shanti
well, well. are n´t you hard to please lady?
First, Andreas Roth and I met long time ago when he was using a pseudo name: Mr. Bernstain, due to the fact he was afraid to be chased by angry sannyasins and have his house burned down because of his accusations.
After a while he saw there was no real danger and came out as Mr. Roth. By the en of our exchange he was Andreas… a pal, a fellow nemesis. So far, he always gets tired of me insisting on his giving some proofs beyond his well read books. so we open up and virtually hug and inhabit our vulnerability.
So why not end up this time with some Haikus
As far as Frank is concerned I am pretty sure he is stoned most of the time… and as you know this type of cigarette produces a narcotic effect on people´s aggression .( No judgment intended here). so he also offers some poetry to this leela.
Girl you are too hard to be Danish. you seem southamerican. lighten up and try a haiku yourself.
greetings
Anthony
Think I have to get high too, to keep up with stoned sissy frank:
A hot southamerican lady named peace, invites a professor of oshology. After offering him a cigarette with narcotic effect the professor get’s high and higher and starts to rhyme. But that’s not what she likes. The professor is getting too slack now. So she calles him Mr. Bernstein and even Mr. Roth. Now this is too much! Back in the arena he is taking hard revange, asking her to write a haiku. Will she deliver?
Shanti, if you want more, read:
http://www.authentic-spirit.net/denial_and_corruption.pdf
http://www.rebelliousspirit.com/osho-webzine/103/sharing
A sincere german Roth
A Stoned frank
An Oshology Professor
A Danish peaceful shanti
An astonished Amrito
a bystander Alok john
all in a circle
holding hands and dancing
Roth confuses facts with theories
Frankie confuses roth with himself
Anthony confuses shanti with Alok John
Amrito confuses Arun with Osho
Alok john just joined in and is confused
I am really confused myself
and speaking of selfpromoting articles read:
http://truthaboutosho.blogspot.com/
Now
now
this is
too much
testosterone is gone
I´d rather
see
wrestling on TV.
Pass the joint!
oshoworld.com has pulled down the free download of osho audios since may 05 2009, due to legal threats by oif. that’s just great, the best way to destroy yourself… roth, frank and others, you are right. just wait, time is on your side, truth will out… sitting silently, doing nothing, shit will go down the drain by itself. and remember:
“Even if I was unenlightened, I would not be so unenlightened as to come to this Ashram! That much is certain. I would not be that much unenlightened.
Second thing you say – “Would you become part of the Ashram?” Even now I am not part of this ashram. I can not be part of any institution or any organization, even my own.
And if I had come as an unenlightened man, naturally the Ashram will not be mine, will be somebody else’s. I can not be part of even my own organisation, so how can I be a part of anybody else’s organisation? Impossible.
And then you ask – “What work would you do?”
I have never done any work. I am the laziest man in world you can find.
And the last you ask – “Where would you sit?”
I would escape immediately! I would see an organization, some Ashram, and I would run!”
yeah,it`s boring now.
the epitaph?
tommo
professor of oshology,phd
never born
never died
never there
come on Frank! you are stabbing in the back!
I was there… not in osho´s room, not in sheela´s place.
But that still is not the point. My research is based on people who were there!
that is point!
Now a haiku
Frankie, the rat pack
likes Roth
more than anthony
still stoned
Danish girl
waits
for frankie´s
Yes
two-ton tony appears to be a little punch-drunk from the fight.
and what of rockythustra?
he coulda had class.
he coulda have been someone.
he coulda been a contender……..
so i guess that just leaves me and the sannyas answer to penelope cruz to just walk off into the sunset………
Frankie. It is always easier to walk into sunsets with fictitious movie stars than real-life women like me.
At least the other two are frontal in their haikus and do not ignore invitations.
To be absolutely honest, your Penelope Cruz looks more like some sort of self-pleasure- contentment sports practiced by lonely people, than a real date.
So paraphrasing you…
frankie…
he coulda had class.
he coulda have been someone.
he coulda been a contender……..
But instead
he preferred to date
a computer screen
shanti
ps: invitation is open for the other two contenders
Well… what was the topic we were discussing?
anyone remembers?
greetings
anthony
beautiful artical of our beloved grandmaster
Intellects are lost !!!!!
Any Questions?
dropping by in this page for the first and last time ever. I would shop almost of you to the fields ( but no in the Ranch…_ – let’s say: to work in Morocco, knowing that none of you would have access to the comfort and high horse bla-bla-bla of your conditioning.
I have heard about osho for his frank behaviour towards god & sex. his views are changing the old and the bad customs of our indian society. he is the revolutery man of our country . if i am a unelighten man & come to this ashram. i will be here for the needful people. i will serve the people with utmost dedication with my body & soul. if i will get a chance to do this i will think myself on the top of the world.