There is one Farrah Abrahham [American teenage mom, ed.] who has worked in a TV reality show and made her sex tape public. Within 24 hours of release, 2 million people have registered at Vivid entertainment for the pay per view. How did I get to know all this?
From the Hindi News website Dainik Bhaskar, one of India’s largest selling Hindi dailies. Other than news and stupid pride in Hindu moral ethics, most of the Hindi news websites show maximum skin – naturally white skin; brown skin for such bigots is as holy as a white cow.
Now for weeks they are publishing excerpts from Sheela´s book with photos from Pune One groups.And their headlines! “Every sannyasin was doing sex 90 times a month, Osho’s PA opens the secret beans.”Another headline – “In one day, Osho was doing sex with three, and made his English attendant pregnant.”
I think not much has changed in the mindset of the Hindi cow belt, other than the newspapers. In 1984, another Hindi paper, Panjab Kesari was running a front page story in their Sunday edition with the title, “The God that failed”. I was a young disciple then and people who knew me used to say, “Why did you to go into the trap of such guru?”
I was and still I am very interested in the operating software of the collective mind; thanks to Osho, it is fun to watch how our individual and collective mind functions.
Although I can laugh about the yellow journalism of Dainik Bhaskar (The Sun), they have absolutely gone beyond the limits of decency; therefore through Osho and Sannyas News I condemn their owner and editorial board for such cheap journalism.
Shantam Prem
Shantam, thanks.
I do remember when Hasya (then Osho’s International Secretary) wrote to the old paper sannyasnews back in 1986 and accused us of yellow journalism – so I am a bit circumspect about such accusations. I suppose “yellow” means “cowardly”?
The other thing I do remember vividly was being in discourse in Poona one in the seventies when Osho addressed a similar question. Apparently some Bombay newspaper had got a “look alike” and photographed the look alike draped by half naked women, and published it.
Osho was totally okay with it. He said it’s great. The newspapers are the bait, and people will begin to hear about me. Then people will come to see me, and then taste the real thing. If they are genuine seekers they will know the difference between the stories and the real thing!
As for tabloid newspapers – well what they write is almost all fiction and entertainment, and should be treated like that ab initio. Frankly the broadsheet papers also “invent” and embellish” a lot too. I still read the “Guardian” in the UK, but I remember they also allowed prejudiced and absurd reporting about Osho when he was trying to get into the UK in the eighties – after the Ranch and when on his “world tour”. So perhaps on spiritual things and real human growth beyond the ordinary, all newspapers “miss” and just dont understand it. It is wise to remember that many journalists are failed or aspiring “politicans”! Of course that doewn’t mean there are indeed a few good ones, especially in the |”investigative” category.
when you know the inside story, what the newspapers publish is known to be fiction
but still newspapers are read, and stories that we dont know about ourselves are believed
the fact is the world media from so called tabloids to so called quality news are owned by the same small group of super rich who also own the corporations and have bought the governments
truth is not somethng you can find there – what is found is propaganda that suits those same vested interests
thats why the internet is valuable today – it still hasnt come completely under the control of those vested interests and for now we can enjoy a little freedom of expression and news outside the news
dhyanraj…yes…
an interesting angle and point of view…
that internet access provides a certain freedom for the individual
as it is self publishing and creates a direct audience…
freedom of speech and expression
becomes even more valuable with internet…
no shit,sherlock!!
i perfectly agree with you shantam bhai
the pen is mightier than the sword !
remember…the sword is double edged…
journalism is public media…
misusing mass public media by many yellow journalism
is tantamount to abusing their rights to freedom of the press
to misinform and use propaganda is utter gutter…
to attack and slander an individual…
is against the individuals freedoms
whom reporters should protect…
an individual stands alone
and cannot defend against ugly mass propaganda
if journalist want freedom of the press
they also have to accept responsibility to maintain
and honour this given freedom
OSHO clearly understood this dilemma
and accepted with his sense of humour and wisdom…
understanding that sensational controversial news
creates more fuel to the fire…
and generates more news curiosity and mass interest
better to create more enemies than be ignored !!
sex guru !!
was the best title to attract attention around the world…
sex sells…
and gets peoples eyeballs reading…
it is clear that pornography fuels the internet today
which is a clear indication of his wisdom and genius
his trust that once he could attack the fish is in his net
he would transform the person and his misconceptions
and easily win their hearts !
the flip side of the coin is…
repeat a lie often…it becomes a perceived truth
and the masses are in a rush to crucify with their judgments
today the news media has become multidimensional multilayered
and complex with instant social network
and media over the internet with instant wordwide news
this has drastically changed the very nature of the journalism…
now everyone has become a sort of direct publishing journalist
with their own and views and opinions being aired unrestricted
instant news…
an individual has no time defend himself to act or react
to offer a balanced view
that too in every multilayers direction instantly
and is bombarded with propaganda…
certainly OSHO would have also viewed
this new internet scenario with a different perspective
and i feel he would have also used the internet to his advantage
in every possible way…he would have been actively engaged
atleast in his acharya rajneesh days…
No problem generally with this at all, Swami R, except that it needs to be emphasised that the proliferation of instantly accessible mass and social media tends to create a far more emotionally charged, volatile population, ‘possessed’ by and itself flooding humanity with half-baked, ill thought-out views and prejudices.
The internet is very much a double-edged sword, with plenty going for it, as you rightly say, but also much of a highly negative, destructive nature. What it most certainly isn’t is an unmitigated positive influence.
Yet you yourself appear blind, unconscious of your own misuse of the medium:
“to attack and slander an individual…
is against the individuals freedoms
whom reporters should protect…
an individual stands alone
and cannot defend against ugly mass propaganda
if journalist want freedom of the press
they also have to accept responsibility to maintain
and honour this given freedom”
It took you quite a while to desist from gravely slandering the Resort management on here recently, didn’t it?
Or are you going to tell us that that doesn’t count as you were ‘right’ (and anyway, you’re ‘special’)?
As for:
“the flip side of the coin is…
repeat a lie often…it becomes a perceived truth
and the masses are in a rush to crucify with their judgments” -
I wonder whether this obvious propaganda tactic of yours, ie of trying to suggest that something is definitely true when it in fact remains totally unproven, as well as aimed at getting ‘mud to stick’, was also motivated by another principle of media maniplulation that you refer to above, ie:
“better to create more enemies than be ignored!!” ?
Accusing others of one’s own failings – it’s a common enough human trait, sure – BUT Swami Rajneesh, aren’t you supposed to be beyond all that, ‘realised’, ‘enlightened’ and all that?
It does make me wonder how you can be so blindingly unaware of the implications of such statements, of how they reflect directly upon your own actions. It really does.
satyadeva says “the proliferation of instantly accessible mass and social media tends to create a far more emotionally charged, volatile population, ‘possessed’ by and itself flooding humanity with half-baked, ill thought-out views and prejudices”
its the job of the intellectual elite working for the super rich to create an emotionally charged, volatile population, flooding humanity with half-baked, ill thought-out views and prejudices isnt it satyadeva ?
and what of your own half baked views and prejudices satyadeva ? – you expound them continually – rajneesh is this, rajneesh is that – all half baked nonsense but mud will stick wont it satyadeva if you throw enough of it ?
and here i’ll start the comentary on your comment (just to give you a tease of your own lil game). i used lines from your comment satyadeva, hope no copyright infrigement problem …..
*The internet is very much a double-edged sword, with plenty going for it, as you rightly say, but also much of a highly negative, destructive nature. What it most certainly isn’t is an unmitigated positive influence.
( this beeing a small glimpse of the nature of your comment .. guess on which side of the sword you are )
*It took you quite a while to desist from gravely slandering the Resort management on here recently, didn’t it?
(and another thing swami rajneesh is no journalist, he is a rebel disciple saying it like it is, no shine on the bull here ! yes he is fighting for freedom of Osho message and Osho commune ! yet it seems you continue slandering swami rajneesh:
*Or are you going to tell us that that doesn’t count as you were ‘right’ (and anyway, you’re ‘special’
(you sound like childhood jealousy .. this seems to be your problem with swami rajneesh, that you think that he thinks he’s special?! how dare he
)) ) (but aren’t these just words put in rajneesh’s mouth, i guess you are the journalist, since you like to make up stories and put fake words as quotes just like the journalists do )
*I wonder whether this obvious propaganda tactic of yours, ie of trying to suggest that something is definitely true when it in fact remains totally unproven …
(again appliable to you satyadeva, this tactic of yours of trying to prove that swami rajneesh is indeed the person you immply he is)
and then satyedeva you continue with the self appliable truth :
*Accusing others of one’s own failings – it’s a common enough human trait, sure ..
(and after this you end your short lil game with :
*It does make me wonder how you can be so blindingly unaware of the implications of such statements, of how they reflect directly upon your own actions. It really does.
(what more to say..? it looks like you should first check youself or your source and apply it on you , you will have a surprise realising everything you said applies on yourself )..
by the way why are you more upset at rajneesh attacking oif and poona ashram than on poona resort management and oif attacking osho’s legacy and master’s sannyasins and master’s comune with the buddhafield? (this one off the record)
Roxana, most of what your say here is reactive garbage, but here are two points:
First, you say:
)) ) (but aren’t these just words put in rajneesh’s mouth, i guess you are the journalist, since you like to make up stories and put fake words as quotes just like the journalists do )
(you sound like childhood jealousy .. this seems to be your problem with swami rajneesh, that you think that he thinks he’s special?! how dare he
SD:
I refer you to Swami R’s claim to be first in a new lineage after Osho, with 14 more versions to follow. If that isn’t claiming to be “special” then what is, please?! Again, check your sources before ‘opening mouth’.
Roxana:
by the way why are you more upset at rajneesh attacking oif and poona ashram than on poona resort management and oif attacking osho’s legacy and master’s sannyasins and master’s comune with the buddhafield? (this one off the record)
SD:
I’m honestly not that concerned about OIF or the Poona management, the whole topic tends to bore me, frankly.
But I am concerned about Swami Rajneesh’s personal claims, which is why I examine his words and actions and call them into question if I find them questionable, exaggerated, therefore unbefitting a spiritual teacher.
SD.the man is an inflated fool.
an absurd fantasisist.
one minute he was a great fashion designer.
then he was in the himalayas for 14 years
then he was slumped out unemployed in bed in london.
all at the same time!
his physical self-awareness is so limited,and he`s so off on his self-delusion in his pathetic fantasies of being “first in a lineage” that he forgets to get health insurance and some mug has to bail him out when he collapses
etc etc.
mental hospitals used to be full of people who thought they were jesus and napoleon.
in the new age,they will be full of people who dress up in lunghis and think they are osho!
and his chief disciple,the drug-addled pseudo-hippie dead-beat DR proclaiming that a guy who dresses like,talkslike,uses the same words,mannerisms,style of speech and dress of osho is not an osho imitator!!!
incredible!
SD you are persistent with these retards.
respect to your caring.
i dont have the patience.
cheerio
Anand Yogi, We can also clean up your act. See how Lokesh, Martyn, Frank got very nervous and went on holidays ?? You also need a holiday break ?? We can easily encounter each accusation, but out of courtesy will lay off for sometime.
If you want to challenge us, to defend Rajneesh just write below that you accept, and we will answer each of your slander. Then do not cry and run away.
Because we are sharp young people and can play your game better. Read why many have gone on holidays before you accept our challenge.
Then we will start our game also. And the editor will also have to respect our freedom to defend Rajneesh.
satyadeva most of what you say is radioactive garbage sorry repetetive garbage and here are my two points:
what exactly have you got to say about rajneesh’s statement about osho’s lineage? what exactly you don’t understand? curious about it or just annoyed?
and also quite interesting you are not interested in poona resort that banns your fellow sannyasins and oif that falsely claims copyrights over your masters words but are very much interested in rajneesh’s “personal claims”. arent you just a lil bit too curious about rajneesh and a lil bit too much obsessed ?
so satyadeva where is your source of curiosity coming from? can we check it? should we bring in the light to find it?
Roxana, I’ve already said what I think about Rajneesh’s statement re Osho’s “lineage”, ie that it’s a load of delusionary, Eastern bollocks, meant to glamourise himself and attract the gullible (like yourself) who are attracted by the idea of a spiritual ‘magical mystery tour’.
As for being concerned about Rajneesh rather than other issues, well, that happens to be how it is, that’s all. If you’re looking for some ‘sinister’ motive then you’ll be looking a very long time.
As I’ve said before, don’t you think that anyone who’s confidently said to be a “buddha” needs the closest scrutiny? Especially when he cultivates copying another Master in so many ways? And claims he’s the ‘successor’ of one of the greatest Masters of our times? Perhaps especially when he and his acolytes come on to a public website to spread his versions of the truth?
Dhyan Raj said to Satyadeva:
no you dont provide evidence satyadeva – you provide only baseless allegation – as you did also with rajneesh – lying and saying he doesnt answer your question -
when asked what question rajneesh didnt answer you didnt know and could not say -
you said that you didnt have time to figure it out and tell us as you were about to leave the country and we should look up your comments and find out ourselves what was this mythical unanswered question – ha ha ha ha ha
- proving that your interest is not in truth but in slander and lies on rajneesh – who has answered all your questionsre you go, off on one yet again, Mr ‘Great-but-Nearly-Always-Totally-Exasperated-Devotee’!
SD:
There you go, off on one yet again, Mr ‘Great-but-Nearly-Always-Totally-Exasperated-Devotee’!
Such chronic impatience likes to jump to conclusions, almost always erroneous ones.
No need to fret, dear, I’ll research the exact posts, give you full chapter and verse, so you can amuse yourself making up spurious explanations to excuse the Swami R.
And in my own time, not at the effect of your bullying, neurotic badgering, thanks very much.
Now, off you go and meditate – you clearly need it….
swami rajneesh says:
>> i perfectly agree with you shantam bhai
the pen is mightier than the sword !
remember…the sword is double edged…
Or as I beloved master proved … the mouth can be mightier than even the pen. We don’t often get to see that.
By the way Swami R, I accept your reason as to why you are not wearing a mala (from the other thread that was locked). Interesting, but acceptable. Actually I am quite surprised by the effect you are having on people who never met Osho. Just goes to show. You’ve got a good gimmick there. Pity it doesn’t work with the old souls. Whatever the case, our Majesty the Queen is protecting you from us Brits. hehe.
… and you gotta brush up on your jokes. That 69 one was totally out of synch. You want a good joke?
Q. How do you make sannyasins laugh?
A. You tell then your plans.
certainly wish your majesty the queen a long long life
you british loyal subjects deserve a monarch !!!
daily british news shows you have enough bombers and fanatics vandalism and islamic fundamentalists preachers…
roaming your streets…
Q. How do you make sannyasins laugh?
A. You tell then your plans.
well actually…that is how i make you all cry !!!
how i make them laugh ??
lokesh marty and frank jokes are enough for them
and now satyadeva…is trying to make the cut
if you are serious enough we may also consider you !
Oh yes, Swami R, plenty more “serious” stuff heading in your direction – so you and your acolytes can all have a bloody good belly laugh, while you try to wriggle your way out of trouble…
Purely for ‘entertainment’ purposes, of course (mine)!
The current state of the followers of Swami R who regularly post here may be guaged by the total lack of response to the point I made yesterday (responding to Roxana) about the sort of backgrounds they’re coming from, and the influence of that factor upon their general mentality.
It does seem these young people choose to acknowledge only what fits their current purposes, including of course, how they perceive themselves as being very much in an ‘Us v Them’ (ie ‘Right’ v ‘Wrong’ / ‘Good’ v ‘Evil’ situation.
Unfortunately, such an emotionalised stance is what undermines one’s intelligence, sort of destabilising any efforts at finding a meditative space within.
Part of what I wrote was:
“I guess we have to remember that for a number of countries ‘the 60′s and 70′s’, ie lengthy periods of socio-sexual revolution never really happened, and many were labouring under oppressive regimes. So historically, it’s sort of your and others’ time to ‘catch up’, as it were.
Fair enough, why not?
But given this scenario, there’s so much at stake for you people that you automatically react, unthinkingly, violently even, if what you presently perceive as integral to your ‘inner revolution’ – including but not confined to Swami R – is criticised, put on the spot, or seemingly held up for ridicule. I think you need to acknowledge this touchiness, this ‘reactivity’ about yourselves, as part of your current self-knowledge and accept, if possible, that it might lead you to ignore or reject ideas from elsewhere that might have some truth in them, some validity.
If you can’t or won’t see this then there’s little real possibility of ‘the old and the new’ understanding each other.”
satyadeva don’t be so sensitive all of the sudden calling us violent? are you not able to sleep at night because of so much violence? if you need help for sleeping just read your comments, they’re like mantras repeating same words… oh yes and this 60-70′s bullshit about hippy time for eastern europe i have heard before from other old sannyasin.. haha you old geezers make me smile a little .. you think because you went through that 70′s now the eastern countries have to go also..so easily worked out for you..maybe you want to share some more prophecy since you got it all figured out.. i believe we dont need that shit like you did back then..what we need now is some real fire and rajneesh and russians and romanians and lots of other nationalities are ready to provide it..no need for hippy contest..hands down you win it…we’ve got our own flavour …
and thank you for your superior old fart attitude and the care you have for us younf new seekers … but you’ll be surprised that if you join us you might learn some new trivks from us and not the other way around…like osho says don’t bring up children, rather let them teach you … its all about unlearning right satyadeva?! you started stinkinf of i know this i know that !! join the caravan and forget what you knew its all outdated bullshit now…maybe we will even teach you how to get a girlfriend so you finnaly go on that vacation of yours and stop wasting your precious time here giving us so much attention..
G’d Day, Roxana! How er, ‘interesting’ to wake up to your ‘pleasantries’! Rest assured my partner and I have enjoyed a good laugh at your outpourings today…
Briefly, you haven’t the remotest clue about what my generation went through decades ago, at your age, so it would be wiser to simply keep your mouth shut.
And up to now nothing I’ve heard from you leads me to imagine I have anything to learn from you – except perhaps about the traditional, therefore predictable arrogance and ignorance of youth.
Mr Satya Deva,
Is very very obsessed with attacking Swami Rajneesh for each comment,
like a football with no goal.
Whatever Swami Rajneesh has exposed about Resort management is known to everyone in Poona, and if the Resort management have any guts they can anytime come to make their own statements here.
They are hiding with fear behind their false power and complete misuse of Osho mandate, the management team must be 21 members,
Not 3 dictators.
Are you the boyfriend of Amrito ?? Or you want to suck up to Jayesh.
Make them happy like some good poodle boy ??
Are you hidden Resort management spokesperson ??
If they are not answering even once then why are you so disturbed ??
Something smells fishy here.
See my earlier reply to Roxana, mini kang.
it is the resort management that is slandering and attacking with false propaganda against hundreds of sannyasins…
abusing the OSHO mandate and misusing against sannyasins everyday
the resort management do not own OSHO
or his vision or his ashram…
they are only temporary management
to take care of mundane day to day matters…nothing more !!
they are mis using the instrument of our master OSHO as an organization
and threatening sannyasins worldwide in every aspect of their freedom
i am simply defending as an individual with no organization
who is the victim and who are the oppressors here ??
Which is just another way of saying that the ends justify the means, Swami R.
Sorry, but there’s no possible excuse for using someone else’s website to accuse and carry on gratuitously accusing people of grave, almost certainly unprovable crimes, many months, or perhaps years (or never?), before any official Court case.
I’m no particular supporter of OIF or the Resort management, but your actions were hardly ‘enlightened’, they didn’t do a lot for your spiritual credibility, frankly.
satyadeva, you seem to be constantly trying to prove rajneesh’s enlightenment, even though you say you’re not completely against nor in favor… why do you seem so desperate to show “everyone” he’s not enlightened? or, below dignity? haha, ramana maharshi said only a jnani can recognize a jnani… are you a jnani, satydeva? can you tell me you can recognize a buddha?
i’ve met four buddhas in my lifetime… i cannot tell which were really enlightened, since i’m not a jnani… but i can say they were all different, therefore i cannot judge “oh, enlightened beings are like this”… i spent one year with one and it changed my life deeply…rajneesh says again and again, drop the search, stop searching… when i met him i had stopped, and i knew, out of my own experience, that searching is useless…
so i seem to agree with swami rajneesh’s approach to many things… and i’m provoked by what he says in many others… apparently, his fight is my fight… not because of fighting… who cares to fight?… but a “certain” fighting becomes necessary to defend him from the antagonistic ideas and propaganda that it’s been broadcast against him… the work he does touches lives deeply, and his work now includes building an ashram and creating a space for sannyasins to live and love… a communal space in the mayan riviera for osho lovers and meditators… for free… and this is causing havoc in the little minds of some neurotic people, so they’re attacking and creating difficulties… and many are getting provoked, and it’s good… is this man really who he claims he is?
we are in 2013, 23 years since our loving osho left his body, his beautiful message is being spread all over the world… and 23 years means a religion will be created after the buddha… where is the sannyas religion? it appears to be in osho centers and therapy… and copyrighted osho meditations… yes… and what about osho? should we pray to him, forget him, love him, surrender, watch, search, find a living master, enjoy, celebrate? what? no definite answer… no base for any religion… no finger pointing at any guidelines, but to the moon only…and books with tons of words going back and forth… exposing the beauty of logic and duality, he demonstrated how easily you can change an argument, an idea… because all of it is mind, and mind is like clay… you can create any shape with it, and change it, and give it new forms…but, the hands? who’s molding the clay?
and osho speaks… hands moving silently around the clay… open… empty… you could see how he was not thinking in what he was going to say next… he was like… beloveds, life is a celebration and… (no mind…) and if you see… (no mind…)… haha… and he was showing again and again, no mind, no mind, no mind…
still, people became totally fixed with his words and answers and books and discourses and this quote and that quote, and my quote against your quote, and my therapies against yours, and my years with osho… haha… but relax and behold, remember a religion is being born! watch…
we have a messiah, holy books, apostles, we have gospels… the gospel of devageet… the gospel of shunyo… the secret gospel of amrito… the never before revealed gospel of sheela… and it keeps on expanding “osho’s religion”… under osho’s own recorded gospel on video and lo-fi audio…
An old preacher was dying. He sent a message for his doctor and his lawyer, both church members, to come to his home. When they arrived, they were ushered up to his bedroom. As they entered the room the preacher held out his hands and motioned for them to sit, one on each side of his bed. The preacher grasped their hands, sighed contentedly, smiled and stared at the ceiling.
For a time, no one said anything. Both the doctor and lawyer were touched and flattered that the preacher would ask them to be with him during his final moments. They were also puzzled; the preacher had never given them any indication that he particularly liked either of them. They both remembered his many long, uncomfortable sermons about greed, covetousness and avaricious behavior that made them squirm in their seats.
Finally, the doctor said, “Preacher, why did you ask us to come?” The old preacher mustered up his strength, then said weakly, “Jesus died between two thieves; and that’s how I want to go.”
a joke is a joke is a joke… and osho loved them…
even with all his words written down to touch a big majority of hearts, no church can be built in his name but a church of celebration… osho is the ultimate discordian pope… and he left clues to search and find any jewel he might have left behind, a treasure of consciousness, some enlightened disciple… like mini kang said, one in ten thousand at least? swami rajneesh moves likes he’s carrying a treasure, so i’m trusting… how to be certain? no need of certainty… it’s such a big mystery, this life we are living, just a little trust, a little openness, and we might find a beautiful mystery revealing…
but… we could also be falling into the trap of some power-hungry ego-maniac… haha… sure, everything’s possible for the mind, but unfortunately for the fearful hearts out there, he’s far from being that type of person, he’s very sweet, caring and thoughtful, not perfect, childlike, and deeply respectful of the other…and at the same time is like a walking sword… haha, yes satyadeva, maybe we’re innocent and gullible… but our innocence means no conclusion… no final judgment on things… just living this moment without trying to make sense out of it… yes, seems terrible to just let go… you are expecting too much from innocent people… maybe it’s better to expect the spiritual egos to be correct and polite and pristine and knowledgeable… but not a lion roaring… never expect the roar to be your idea of love and enlightenment… after teasing the lion, don’t expect him to go all shannti shannti… and i want to say that i see the lion to be indeed a lion and a very fiery one… though i have not found the evil doer you euphemistically point at…
i wonder why osho attracted the intellectuals so much… maybe he tried to work with them… and utterly failed… now rajneesh, working as a buddha in his own right, is experimenting with innocence… haha… also remember we are not making the old rajneeshpuram stuff… maybe innocent people are the way, satyadeva… intellectuals are too happy with their intelligence and knowledge and power games… and to go deep within you need to let go… of everything, even the lovely dictionary…
Anand, you say:
“maybe it’s better to expect the spiritual egos to be correct and polite and pristine and knowledgeable… but not a lion roaring… never expect the roar to be your idea of love and enlightenment… after teasing the lion, don’t expect him to go all shannti shannti… and i want to say that i see the lion to be indeed a lion and a very fiery one… though i have not found the evil doer you euphemistically point at…”
To which I say I have no such expectations of what you term “spiritual egos” (strange term – I presume you mean spiritual teachers?), I’m not as foolish, naive or inexperienced as you seem to want to think.
And since when have I suggested Rajneesh is an “evil doer”? Tricky, disingenuous, self-deluded, vain, hypocritical perhaps, but “evil”, no.
Why, I’ve even made a few positive comments about him – have you noticed at all? But these are never acknowledged, his acolytes seemingly solely intent on seeing what they want to see, so there’s no need to think of perhaps modifying their outpourings of abuse!
I see you make great play of how it’s not possible to assess who is and who isn’t ‘enlightened’, before finally confidently declaring “now rajneesh, working as a buddha in his own right, is experimenting with innocence”…I take it then that those earlier statements were, sort of, just for, er, ‘show’, for ‘acceptable spiritual correctness’ purposes?
Or if not, Mr ‘Humble’, how can you be so sure, eh?
Also, I wonder why you focus on “intellectuals” when addressing me…Because I can string a few words together fairly coherently and hopefully make a fist of a rational argument doesn’t qualify me for such a description. Do you know what an “intellectual” is? But perhaps it makes you feel comfortable to so pigeonhole whom you seem to perceive as an ‘adversary’?
Anand wrote to Satyadeva:
why do you call people beginners? do you remember osho saying there’s no a-b-c of meditation? there’s just this moment, either you are in it, or gone inside the mind… there are no beginners or experts in meditation… maybe you forgot, but that’s ok…
another thing you are doing is implying that innocent and gullible means stupid… sorry, i would say otherwise… alva edison tried more than 3,000 times to create a lightbulb… you would think how stupid it is to do it again, and again, and again… but innocence moves in mysterious ways… what the innocent person lacks existence will provide, because you are at your most precious state when you are innocent, you become of utmost value… and existence pours so much love and easiness… it finds the key for you…
innocence is great satyadeva, and you shouldn’t judge it as inferior or stupid, even though you can do it, but you cannot hurt the innocent one, he will repeat what jesus said “forgive them, father, for they do not know what they are doing”…In response your post of earlier today, on the ‘Freedom of Speech’ thread, Anand:
Satyadeva replied:
I wouldn’t call these people “innocent”, judging by the sort of abuse they regularly happily dish out to critics of Rajneesh. No, I’d call them naive, inexperienced and insecure. Otherwise, why respond with such anger, such virulence?
And I say they are “gullible” because they refuse to countenance the possibility of Rajneesh being wrong about anything, of making rather foolish errors, or of choosing not to respond to difficult questions. That’s being credulous, blind, stupid.
So I find your comment just a bit too ‘precious’, especially “but you cannot hurt the innocent one”.
satyadeva, when i say spiritual egos i talk about people who are not really searching but just filling themselves with spiritual knowledge, books and techniques with no real inner transformation… there are many many people like this… you’ll find them trying to be generous, gentle, good and great… trying to be their ideal of a realized spiritual person…
i never said you were foolish, or naive, i know you’re 64… i think you might be confused or deluded, but never naive…
i use “evil doer” as a general term for all your flowery words to describe his “crimes” and negative traits… as you say you’re not naive, i hope you understand this… and forgive me, i did not see how you support him or the few good comments you made about him… maybe you put them next to negative comments, or just to balance out, but those few comments probably are coming from politics rather than love…
yes, satyadeva, read carefully… “as a buddha in his own right”… i’m not saying i know he’s a buddha, i’m saying he’s expressing he’s enlightened… i cannot be sure, but i trust it… you cannot be sure either, but you wish to doubt it… some people even doubts osho’s buddhahood…
i’m addressing intellectuals in you because you seem to be one… always logical, always finding reasons for this and that… trying to sound smart, playing the professional commenter… i don’t find you to be a heart person at all… maybe i’m being prejudiced, prove me wrong…
finally, rajneesh is not perfect, as i said… yes, he can commit mistakes, been those mistakes foolish or otherwise, satyadeva, he’s free to do what he sees fit… sometimes i might not understand why he does what he does but i trust him… and he’s good provoking people, he’s doing a good job there…
and yes, you cannot hurt the innocent one… he will not feel alluded by your judgments or attacks…
and i would ask, do you expect people to be loving in the face of your gruesome way to “expose” facts… because i’m sure you’re talking about facts and not your personal interpretation of facts… the problema again satyadeva is that your expecting too much… what’s the problem in expressing anger?, or whatever it may be… what’s?
if you can’t deal with someone getting angry, then you need to work a bit more on yourself… if you’re judging someone who gets angry, i would again remind you, we’re not spiritual egos trying to be all goodie-goodie… but you can keep on trying to hold us to that image, it’s your freedom…
you can freely call us stupid, blind, naive, hahaha…. and we’re the virulent ones… yes, satyadeva, the world is turning the opposite way just because you say so…
you’re an intellectual satyadeva, i’m not trying to pigeonhole… if you’re not one, show me the heart in your words, or the poetry… none… just smart-ass bullshine flying around like it just hit the fan…
anyway i understand your point of view is just half-baked because you don’t know rajneesh in person, so you deserve patience, not virulence, i agree…
now, satyadeva, did i fail to mention anything you brought up?
You need to take a long hard look at your projecting.
Just read this, Anand (not impressed at all) and I’ll reply later.
Anand, you, typical of many sannyasins, seem to have an almost pathological aversion to rational discussion. How many times have we heard that famous put-down, “You’re in your head, man!” and/or other similar outbursts, eg “Don’t you have any feelings, any heart?” from those who can’t or won’t respond, especially when cornered?
I’ve heard that sort of thing from several young Rajneesh supporters these last few weeks, and now from you, who appear to be rather older, more experienced ‘in the field’ and (slightly) wiser. And – like your utterly misplaced pejorative, “flowery”, for my perception of Rajneesh’s negative traits (eg hypocritical, dishonest, tricky, manipulative etc.) – it’s blindingly inappropriate.
It’s indeed a very questionable tactic when one is trying to get to the truth of a matter, arising from a mode of being based on a set of values – supposedly ‘spiritual’ (a basic error there) – that wilfully denigrates reason and fact-based argument, in favour of the allegedly ‘superior’ value of feeling – or even its degenerative form, thoughtless emotion.
You (and many like you) are so uncomfortable with rational discussion that you even regard being “always logical”, “always finding reasons” as deeply suspect; you even call it “your gruesome way to expose facts”. For your information, Anand, that’s what a ‘civilised’ debate is about, so people are able to assess and judge the evidence put before them. The alternative is a type of chaos, a regression to the realm of the immature, even the infantile. Which, of course, suits the immature and the infantile, but is unlikely to yield much truth. And you call me “confused…deluded”?!
For example, how would you like to be involved in a court case where judge, jury, lawyers, witnesses and the accused spend much of the time abusing and yelling at each other?! Not much prospect of a just verdict there!
Again, typical of a certain sannyas mentality, you introduce the old ‘red herring’, so-called “heart”, trying to put down my arguments by saying I’m obviously not “a heart person”, I present no “poetry”…Well, Anand, that’s just tough, old boy, because I’m not about to ‘sing and dance’ my way through this post simply to satisfy your prejudiced expectations, thanks very much! If you can’t take the truth as I present it, then you’re wasting your time reading this.
Your antagonism towards – and misunderstanding of – what my approach seems to represent extends to even distrusting the positives I noted about Rajneesh, causing you to wonder if I’d mentioned them for ‘political’ reasons! Talk about damning with faint praise…Let me tell you now that noting his ‘good points’ was simply telling the truth as I saw it, as was noting the ‘not-so-good’ points.
And as for showing “love” for him: do you think that is some sort of pre-requisite for any critical assessment? Of course not; either he inspires love in me or he doesn’t. Apart from one or two videos I’ve seen (one of which was simply appalling) and despite the positive aspects I noted at the SN threads, on the evidence of his posts at SN these last one or two months, including no fewer than FIVE instances of him not bothering to reply to points I made (before claiming, when challenged, that he had!) plus EIGHT or NINE instances where I found his views and attitudes sorely lacking, I tell you that he doesn’t inspire love in me, on the whole he rather inspires dislike, suspicion, distrust. There it is, my honest response, not some ‘spiritually correct’ bullshine.
As for your defence of these new, young ‘disciples’ of Rajneesh, the ones who have been responding to critical posts about him from me and others, citing their “innocence” and claiming “you can’t hurt the innocent one”, well, let me tell you firstly that basically, having worked with youth in various contexts for several decades, I’m absolutely on the side of young people doing adventurous, enterprising things (including working with Swami Rajneesh of course), I’m all for it, not against.
However, if you really believe these people are so “innocent” then that doesn’t say much for your powers of discrimination or even observation! And if “the innocent” are immune from hurt then how come they’re so bloody angry, so full of fury, virulence and sheer spite? No, they’re not “innocent”, not at all. Relatively inexperienced, naive perhaps, easily led even, but not “innocent”.
As such, contrary to what you suggest, of course I don’t expect them to be “loving”, but it still appears rather odd, and perhaps more than a little suspect, that people who claim to be “getting high” exhibit such a degree of what appears fairly ‘low-grade’ emotion, which includes a notable lack of balance, a kind of over-wrought touchiness (to put it mildly!), the sort of condition that’s readily described as being ‘emotionally possessed’.
So that I wonder whether anyone has prepared them for the inevitable ‘come down’ after the ‘high’, or whether they know yet how to maintain their equilibrium, or whether anyone’s told them how…
Perhaps it’s down to their youth, their insecurity, a sense of being somehow ‘threatened’…But you so often get such an emotionalised mind-set in ‘cults’, especially those centering around an Eastern teacher.
For example, do you recall the Rajneeshpuram debacle, Anand? It’s highly arguable that such a ‘disaster’ might well have been averted if there had been more respect for the mind and independent rational judgment at that time – what you like to term “smart-arse bullshine”! – instead of this aspect of our being being relegated to almost less than even minor importance. As I implied earlier, a set-up that encourages the supremacy of ‘feeling’ to the detriment of reason, rather than a proper balance of the two modes of being, easily degenerates into outpourings of mindless emotion, which rarely leads anywhere much, except to increased mutual antagonism between its targets and its perpetrators (with the exception of certain structured therapeutic situations).
No need to assume, by the way, that I can’t deal with someone else’s anger, although it would clearly appear to suit your purpose to believe so. I don’t know why you assume such a thing, but I assure you I’m not quite as ‘one-dimensional’ as you apparently like to think. So no need for any patronising remarks to that effect, ok?
The problem for these young people is that almost certainly no one has told them the difference between feeling and emotion, and probably also, of that between love and emotion. And I’m not sure you, Anand, know the difference either.
Enough for today?!!
what exactly gives one spiritual credibility? when osho was saying “it is certain that I have been poisoned by Ronald Reagan’s American government” .. tell me would you also tell him that he is “gratuitously accusing people of grave, almost certainly unprovable crimes, many months, or perhaps years (or never?), before any official Court case.” ?
and you say rajneesh’s actions were hardly enlightened..well what actions are you talking about? and what is enlightened from your point of view?
Shantam , I agree with Parmartha’s ‘ I suppose “yellow” means “cowardly”? ‘ , & also it is best for sincere seekers to not waste time , wonder if thats the why they say ‘ yellow yellow dirty fellow ‘ .
The ‘food for thought’ right now here , is certainly half cooked which is not conducive for me , my stomach is a bit weak , i would rather stay away .
satyadeva claims again and again that he is no supporter of the resort
even though his attacks on rajneesh are only favourable to the resort and serve resort managers interests –
covering up their illegal actions with censorship of factual evidence
rajneesh rightly exposes the misdeeds of those who are attacking osho and his sannyasins every day
and satyadeva when the crime is being committed looks the other way , calls the criminals victims when someone draws attention to their crimes,
attacks a victim of OIF crimes and makes the innocent out to be the criminal after all
yellow journalism is alive and well, chief exponent liar satyadeva
Dhyan Raj:
“Satyadeva calls the criminals victims when someone draws attention to their crimes,
attacks a victim of OIF crimes and makes the innocent out to be the criminal after all”
SD:
I call it “criminal” when anyone not only assumes a crime has been committed but tries to influence wider opinion by publishing his/her assumptions via innuendo and allegations based on inadequate factual evidence.
That is an excellent, almost classic example of the irresponsible misuse of freedom of speech.
Not to mention the consistent attempts to publish such allegations and thus knowingly violate the right to exist of the website used (this one, in case anyone’s in doubt) to propound such mischief.
Also a perfect lesson in hypocrisy from the self-styled inheritor of a (previously non-existent, unmentioned, unanticipated, unknown) spiritual “lineage”.
And you have the laughable audacity to call me a “liar”!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
yes – a liar satyadeva – one example – you say
“you automatically react, unthinkingly, violently even”
this is a lie – yellow journalism
and OIF is committing crimes every day – one crime is fraudulently claiming ownershp of trademark of osho when they lost the court case about trademarks in 2008 in america – which removed all trademarks on osho
the truth is satyadeva you dont want to look at OIF crimes – you defend them as though they are innocent – but the court threw out their fraudulent claims of ownership of osho – and now they act in contempt of court to abuse oshos sannyasins everyday
Well, now you’re loading me with more of your rubbish, you fool, Dhyan Raj.
You have taken that remark out of context, which no doubt suits your mud-smearing agenda, but which conveniently misses the point. Please provide the context – unless you prefer to keep it conveniently out of sight – and I’ll answer you mpre fully, Mr Exasperated.
Meanwhile, do you understand the difference between a lie and an honest, gut-level response?
Not if you allow your overwhelming righteous exasperation to nearly always get the better of you.
And as for:
“the truth is satyadeva you dont want to look at OIF crimes – you defend them as though they are innocent” -
I have never actually written anything specifically about OIF; as I’ve already stated, I’m really not that interested in them or their alleged ‘criminal behaviour’. So yes, I don’t particularly want to look at what they do or don’t do, but not because I have any special interest in ‘defending’ them.
Although no doubt you’d dearly love the opposite to be the case you’re barking up the wrong tree again with this one.
What can I say except: “Calm down, dear!”?
but i am calm dear – and you find telling lies easy-
you can find in your own comment above to see the context in which you lyingly said about violently reacting –
no one is violent satyadeva – no one is angry – but you keep on with the yellow tactics of calling rajneesh supporters as angry and violent – its a total lie from you repeated again and again to paint rajneesh black -”mud smearing tactics”
that you claim to not be interested in OIF or their crimes shows little concern for the abuses suffered at their hands by osho and his people doesnt it ? –
but as you are it seems a fascist who believes in authority over all and censorship of evidence of crimes by so called authority – of course you support the resort –
for you they are the authority no matter what they might have done in the past and are doing today, no matter they have been proved to be frauds and liars by the american court
DR, the onus is on you to be responsible for your own allegations, not me. But perhaps you’re not too well-informed on such matters, I expect you dismiss them as mere ‘semi-legalistic niceties’, unworthy of your rather extreme self-importance?
So you’re at your own mud-slinging game again, I see, calling me, laughably inappropriately, a ‘liar’ for daring to express my view of your precious friends’ profoundly emotionalised outbursts?
And “no one is violent satyadeva – no one is angry” – How utterly farcical. Who do you thnk you’re kidding, Mr Raj? In the first instance, clearly, yourself!
Moving on to:
“but as you are it seems a fascist who believes in authority over all and censorship of evidence of crimes by so called authority – of course you support the resort –
for you they are the authority no matter what they might have done in the past and are doing today, no matter they have been proved to be frauds and liars by the american court”
What an extraordinarily inappropriate outburst – but pretty well par for the course (of course) from you, Mr Exasperated…
I’m labelled “a fascist” presumably because I point out there exist proper legal channels for the sort of allegations you choose to make, rather than condoning dirtying the waters by biased propaganda, wilfully deeming people incontrovertibly guilty because that happens to suit your pre-existing opinion of them.
And you have the brass neck to say you stand up for freedom of speech, you irresponsible, hypocritical nitwit.
Grow up and learn about due legal process.
(I still confidently predict, by the way, that there will be no legal case brought against your enemies at the Resort).
satyadeva i see you as a fascist because of your expressed opinion “When every relatively uninformed ‘Tom, Dick or Harriet’ thinks his/her emotionally biased views are as valid as anything else, then we’re getting into deep trouble. With truth (and even Truth) the loser.”
here you are saying that everyone should shut up and only people you think are qualified should make comment about issues affecting their lives – a fascist idea – and ignoring the fact that your own views are emotionally biased against rajneesh
Your very use of the pejorative term “fascist” reveals just how ludicrously ‘emotionalised’ you’ve become regarding all this, Dhyan Raj.
What I’m saying is a response to the crazy proliferation of uninformed, biased, half-baked nonsense spouted by millions of people who are now able to perpetrate their subjective crap on to millions of others through the facility of the internet. If you don’t see this as undesirable then you must lack respect for the value of informed, ‘objective’ study, analysis and opinion.
Have you ever visited extremist websites, for example, or sites for political discussion (not to mention sports fan discussion or porn sites)? Or even Twitter or other Social Media facilities? Isn’t the general level pretty bloody pathetically low? As I said, the internet is far from an unmitigated boon, it simply reflects human nature – and if you don’t realise what that implies then I suggest you begin to investigate that right now…
After all, you yourself would just love it if all whom you take to be “uninformed” critics of Rajneesh would themselves “just shut up”, would you not? Come on, step out of your bias, be honest, man.
I say again, I call it as I see it, Rajneesh included. And, like others on here, you always ignore whatever positive comments I’ve made concerning him, seemingly preferring to pigeonhole me as 100% ‘anti’, a 100% ‘enemy’. I guess you lot just feel more comfortable that way, ‘shades of grey’ might make you too uneasy for comfort – another characteristic of the righteously ‘fanatic’, rigid mind-set.
“you must lack respect for the value of informed, ‘objective’ study, analysis and opinion”.
satyadeva we dont get anything like that from you – what we see from you is a “righteously ‘fanatic’, rigid mind-set”.
Satya Deva,
Just for you to relax, scratching your brains making predictions.
If you wish you can call your friend Amrito in the Resort and ask OIF management. Fact is that they received a Legal Notice from Rajneesh lawyer for a lawsuit just 10 days ago.
“mud-smearing agenda” ?! satyadeva agasin you talk about yourself..the thief will always thinks that the other wants to cheat him…
and yes i find it quite fishy how you say nothing bad of oif or poona resort management..if more it looks like you try to protect them.. quite fishy..
Well, Roxana, by your own reasoning you must be a bit of a ‘fish’ yourself.
But more like ‘a fish out of water’, perhaps? Ie out of your depth?
satyadeva don’t talk about depth when nothing in your comments shows any heart, sensitivity… im wondering wether you are sannyas at all.. you lack celebration, juice .. you sound more like lawyer, politician..very cunning and dark….
You mean the great sannyasin ‘God’: emotion and emotionalism?
No place for that when you’re discussing issues like these, Roxana. Those’ll really screw you up. Guaranteed to muddle your thoughts – as exemplified, I’m afraid, by Dhyan Raj and you ‘new people’.
That’s a key aspect of this entire so-called ‘debate’, so it’s good you yourself have, albeit inadvertently, brought it up.
a brain without a heart – accusing others of “emotion” when they defend themselves from your attacks eh satyadeva –
divine truth may be your highest potential – but it is not what you show here, a mudslinging match designed to paint rajneesh and his people as this that and the other thing – and nothing of truth
Totally predictable response, DR…
(Yaaaaawwnn)…
Typical sannyasin emotional bollocks, so often trotted out, automatically, a sort of knee-jerk reaction to being cornered. Indicating an inability to make a convincing, coherent case.
However, let me ask you one thing:
Where exactly have I lied about Rajneesh? No generalised bullshine, please, just provide specific examples, ok?
I have just seen the letter of Dr. Goukani at facebook about his death certificate about Osho. It is put forward by Dhyanraj.
I am wondering why sannyasnews has not given coverage to this letter, it has quite an insider glimpse. I don´t see any foul play or scandalous charges or conspiracy kind of act in the version.
ED: MUCH OF THIS POST HAS BEEN DELETED AS IT DISCUSSES DETAILS RE VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS THAT SANNYAS NEWS CAN NOT PUBLISH WITHOUT ITS EXISTENCE BEING THREATENED.
THE REST OF SWAMI RAJNEESH’S POST APPEARS BELOW.
in all fairness i must add that Parmartha has also offered explanation
that his page could be under legal threats and he fears retribution once this debate openly discusses such matters
i heard banned hari lovebaba has a page on facebook
discussing these matters under a closed secret group…
ED: POST DELETED DUE TO UNACCEPTABLE CONTENT
If you feel this information is so very crucial, Swami R, why the hell don’t you publish it at your own site, rather than relying upon other people to take the risk?
You like to be considered ‘brave’ and also like calling others “cowards”, so what’s the problem here, exactly?
i have published it on my facebook page satyadeva as you know – you just deleted the link –
(ED: REST OF COMMENT DELETED FOR CONTRAVENING LEGAL GUIDELINES))
I await Swami Rajneesh’s answer with great curiosity…
Although the bookies are laying odds-on he won’t bother….
I asked the Tarot if he would answer and got the hanged man crossed with the eight of Cups.
Oooohh, what CAN that signify, Arpana?!
Surely not what I’m imagining…?
But what is the exact question ??
And surprised there is a betting new club now, with bookies, how interesting.
I suggest you do a bit of research, mini kang, it’s really not that hard to find.
yes what’s the problem here exactly satyadeva? why shouldnt rajneesh post something of such interest on a site called sannyas news ?! this brave or coward is again your game of envy… for us is just mere sharing with our fellow travellers..
(ED: PART OF COMMENT DELETED FOR CONTRAVENING LEGAL GUIDELINES)
listen satyadeva putting your negative shit here and there and slamming down rajneesh seems to be your latest hobby..well whatever turn you on..tell me what happened to your vacation? thought you were packinready to go.. put your life aside so you can bash up Osho disciples? quite boring you are again and again looking for rajneesh’s attention with your abuses… i think the question is here : what is it you want from him? you seem like somebody who is really exasperated by rajneesh and may i ask why? what exactly of rajneesh makes you go so against him, makes you more interested in bashing him and criticising him than beeing interested in the affairs of Osho’s commune and legacy? is there a personal issue you got with rajneesh? did he step on your fingers or what?
See my earlier reply to you.
Swami Rajneesh , your acknowledgement to Swami Parmartha is appreciable .
it is not hard to see from your comments that you are on full attack mode against rajneesh , satyadeva !!! your comments proove it on themselves !! it seems to me what you are doing here on sannyas news it looks like a sort of job to slander rajneesh, like an anti rajneesh campaign.. are you working for someone or is it just your own obsession with him? if so love and hate are one..one says no no no untill one surrenders … so much effort you put in commenting so much against rajneesh …why? ! (rethorical question satyadeva please stop repeating the same bullshit all over again.. all your comments are filled with same repetetive accusations )
Roxana, as I’ve said here before, I simply call it as I see it. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem, not mine.
A person who makes such inflated claims about himself needs the closest scrutiny. Or do you imagine everyone should just accept all he ever says, without question?
Wouldn’t that be naive and stupid?
ED: COMMENT REMOVED DUE TO CONTENT IRRELEVANT TO TOPIC
all the time you repeat this thing of him having to proove yourself to him and to answer to you…who made you the judge..or are you looking for a master?… what are your motives of expecting proofs.. you expect him to walk on water for you or what exactly you want? you always say he should answer.. but to what exactly..because i have been reading your comments and you keep repeating that rajneesh doesnt want to answer to one of your questions..but when you’re asked what questions you also dont answer..or say read my previous posts…we are lazy…we are slow..and given the fact that you demand answers please tell us the question first..unless you want answers without questions which means you should listen more and comment less…
See my earlier reply to Dhyan Raj.
And btw, it’s not one point, it’s at least three.
When a bald man gets the comb, what he will do?
He will scratch his head till it bleeds!
Wisdom achieved through books and love learnt through porn create certain kind of high energy; almost like party drug ecstasy.
Something like this is the situation of great spiritual movements born during last century…
Some scratchy head was even writing the book that Nostradamus has predicted the great world leader who will take the civilisation from Pisces age to Aquarius.
This guy is still writing, I will say shamelessly about the Nostradamus predictions in some- you scratch my back, I yours, kind of site.
I would like to say such crystal gazers, get new glasses, and see new leaders are already there. for example Google founders!
Hi shantam,
well after a long string where contributors well and truly got off the subject, you dont really reply to my question, what do you mean by “Yellow” journalism?
Or Osho’s reply to Tabloid journalism in his own day, which was basically they think they are using me, but as it happens I am using them!
Sheela’s book, though not intended that way will still increase the interest in Osho himself, and those who reach him will soon know that Sheela’s version of the old man is very different from what is the truth.
However both yourself and many others seem unable to grasp this truth, even though Osho, your Master, spelt it out so clearly back in 1978!
I don’t care much about facts. My emphasis is on the significance and the truth, which is a totally different thing.
Marpa heard about a master. He was searching and he went to the master, he surrendered to the master, he trusted totally. And he asked the master, “What am I supposed to do now?” The master said, “Once you have surrendered to me, you are not supposed to do anything. Just believe in me. My name is the only secret mantra for you. Whenever you are in difficulty, just remember my name and everything will be all right.”
Marpa touched his feet. And he tried it immediately — he was such a simple man. He walked on the
river. Other disciples who had been with the master for years could not believe it — he was walking on the water!
They reported to the master that, “That man, you have not understood him. He is no ordinary man, he is
walking on water!” The master said, “What?” They all ran towards the river and Marpa was walking on the water, singing songs, dancing. When he came to the shore, the master asked, “What is the secret?”
He said, “What is the secret? It is the same secret that you have given to me — your name. I remembered you. I said, `Master, allow me to walk on water’ and it happened.”
The master could not believe that his name…. He himself could not walk on water. But perhaps… he had never tried. But it would be better to check a few more things before he tries. So he said to Marpa, “Can you jump from that hill?”
Marpa said, “Whatever you say.” He went up on the hill and jumped, and they were all standing in the
valley waiting — just pieces of Marpa will be there! Even if they can find pieces of him, that will be enough — the hill was very high.
But Marpa came down smiling, sitting in a lotus posture. He came just under a tree in the valley, and sat
down. They all surrounded him. They looked at him — not even a scratch. The master said, “This is something. You used my name?” He said, “It was your name.”
The master said, “This is enough, now I am going to try,” and the first step in the water, he sank.
Marpa could not believe it when he sank. His disciples jumped in and somehow pulled him out. He was
half dead. The water was taken out of his lungs… somehow he survived. And Marpa said, “What is the matter?”
The master said, “You just forgive me. I am no master, I am just a pretender.” But Marpa said, “If you are a pretender, then how did your name work?” The pretender said, “My name has not worked. It is your trust. It does not matter who you trust — it is the trust, the love, the totality of it. I don’t trust myself. I don’t trust anybody. I cheat everybody — how can I trust? And I am always afraid to be cheated by others, because I am cheating others. Trust is impossible for me. You are an innocent man, you trusted me. It is because of your trust that the miracles have happened.”
Whether the story is true or not does not matter.
Osho.
Beyond Enlightenment
Chapter #9
Chapter title: The Master is a mirror
11 October 1986 pm
Read Beyond enlightenment 22 or 25 last question ,it might tell you who Judas is
I’ve read that book more times than I can count, and recall nothing about Judas being mentioned, which rather suggests, thats your issue, not mine.
Simple question to ask is that whether Sannyas has that guts to carry the legacy of provocative spirituality forward?
In that sense, I think lesbians and homosexuals have proven their resilience and the journey of march forward?
When one person goes nude on the beach, police can be called, man can be put into the Psychiatric cell, when one dozen do this together, beach authorities have to accept it their naturist way of life and designate some corner for them.
Are we standing up together or we think standing up is an act of six incher which can be only in private!
Parmartha, this is also one of the indirect answer to your question.
Shantam says, ‘Simple question to ask is that whether Sannyas has that guts to carry the legacy of provocative spirituality forward?’
It might seem simple to Shantam, but for the unenlightened among us what exactly is his definition of ‘provocative spirituality’? Why does carrying it forward require courage?
I see that the comment is a response to Parmartha’s question, ‘what do you mean by “Yellow” journalism?’
Shantam describes his comment as an indirect answer to the question but it comes acrooss as so indirect as to be unintelligible. The conclussion drawn by Shantam is in itself a question marked as an exclammation. The mystery deepens.
Without adding provocativeness, Osho was already well renowned in the cut throat world of Indian religious scene. One can see those discourses, when Osho was speaking with Indian gathering.
He was not dealing with the primary school thing of explaining the meaning of names, telling the importance of Master disciple relation etc. etc. Even the road side cycle mechanics know this in India.
Even blinds can see, Osho wanted to built his own brand rather than be a grocery store of other brands. His uniqueness lies in the fact that he challenged the established norms of religiousness. In the Indian context, He questioned the traditional marriage and offered love based relations.
Just with this simple thing 90% of the Indian elites simply went away.
Osho has loved when collective Indian mind was feeling pepper in their ass.
Condemnatory journalism was born out of it.
But as a matter of fact, press office has the duty to write the letters to the editors of such papers and explain their point of view.
But why to speak about the past. Present is so different than the past, it has become as straight as the crooked world.
What I mean by provocative spirituality?
One example.
In 1985, when India was following the Soviet Union system of equal distribution of poverty, Pritish Nandy, well known Indian journalist was the first and most probably was the only journalist who went to America to Interview Osho and give first hand impression.
This story was published in Illustrated weekly of India, as cover title, ” What is Rajneesh upto.”
Best part of the article is when Osho commissions Sheela to give full frontal nude shot for the people back home.
On A4 size, Sheela with Mayor of Rajneeshpuram have double page spread. I still remember those perky tits and my memory says, Philips has not developed lady shavers for the mass market till then.
As Illustrated weekly has been out of circulation for more than 15 years, I wanted to have the e copy of that article from the Times publishing group. They want 100 US Dollars for the color print outs only and that too no publishing writes on my blog at facebook.
I did not buy.
Now someone like Lokesh can say, where is provocativeness? In Ibiza, you see more tits than the mangos. So let me remind him, much depends upon the context and the socio political environment of the country.
In Saudi Arabia, someone who will propagate driving for women will come in the category of provocation.
Shantam, thanks for the coherant response. As you say. present is so different than the past. Times have changed and what was once radical and provocative is now par for the course. Yes, places like Saudi Arabia do still seem to exist in the dark ages as far as women’s rights go etc, but that does not mean that the Saudi’s are not aware of alternative ways of living. Many Saudi’s are educated in the West and know of alternative social standards that encompass such things as freedom of expression for women. Yes, they know about it but they definitely don’t want it, because tey think that what they have in place is better, which is all very well if you are a domineering male.
For me the greatest tool I have at my disposal for all manner of changes is my self. By endeavouring to make myself a better, more compassionate, loving, meditative human being I’ve been told this will bring about changes for the good. I have faith in that concept. As Osho so rightly said, ‘The only revolution is that of the spirit; it is individual. And if millions of individuals change, then the society will change as a consequence, not vice versa. You cannot change the society first and hope that individuals will change later on.
That’s why revolutions have been failing: because we have taken revolution from a very wrong direction. We have thought that if you change the society, change the structure, economic or political, then one day the individuals, the constituent elements of the society, will change. This is stupid. Who is going to do this revolution?
Revolutions fail. The first reason is because we try from the wrong end.’
And if millions of individuals change, then the society will change as a consequence, not vice versa….
This sentence is quoted quite often by the people who think they are changing individually..so blind to see, it is a fashion trend!
Millions of people can enjoy the roller coaster experience but the entrepreneurs are only few, who create such infrastructure.
My wish is that Osho be acknowledged who just did not speak spiritual junk like many in the world but created that Roller coaster park.
And I will go on saying this park has gone into tatters because of the survival instinct of the main disciples. After all, they have to manage something in a foreign country, conservative country.
And I won´t hesitate to say, majority of the disciples have shown the traits of customers rather than share holders.
Shantam, as you very well know, I view your jihad with the resort management as completely ridiculous. You also know that I see your jihad as something which gives your life substance, makes you feel that you are somebody. Truth is, you are nobody and if you could relax into that I daresay you might find life more enjoyable. It is entirely up to you. Each to their own.
Yesterday, I talked to someone who visited the resort recently. He saw the resort as a place aiming for well-heeled clients, wishing to come there and spend money then go home after three weeks. Sounds like business as usual.
It is all about human individual temperament.
Few people see the crime on the street, but go their way. few people work as good smartens.
Few people think to fight for the right cause is meaningful, for few it is meaningless.
I hope, this much common sense you must be having lokesh, that people are different. Hindu civilisation has divided humanity in four sub parts; astrology too works with four elements.
One thing is clear Lokesh, If I have to be you, I will always prefer to be me.
Shantam says, ‘If I have to be you, I will always prefer to be me.’
I suppose it helps a man in your position to have a high opinion of himself. Why compare oneself to another in the first place? We are all unique. You could walk a mile in my shoes but you can’t dance a step in my feet. Preferences are very personal things. Prefering to be who you are instead of someone else sounds as ridiculous as your crusade against the resort. Ultimately you have little choice in the matter. I seem to recall a wise chap from the east saying that one has only two choices in life and that is whether or not to accept that your life is preordained. I like that.
satyadeva says:
3 June, 2013 at 4:01 pm (Edit)
(ED: IN RESPONSE TO Anand’s POST OF SATURDAY, JUNE 1st)
Anand, you, typical of many sannyasins, seem to have an almost pathological aversion to rational discussion. How many times have we heard that famous put-down, “You’re in your head, man!” and/or other similar outbursts, eg “Don’t you have any feelings, any heart?” from those who can’t or won’t respond, especially when cornered?
I’ve heard that sort of thing from several young Rajneesh supporters these last few weeks, and now from you, who appear to be rather older, more experienced ‘in the field’ and (slightly) wiser. And – like your utterly misplaced pejorative, “flowery”, for my perception of Rajneesh’s negative traits (eg hypocritical, dishonest, tricky, manipulative etc.) – it’s blindingly inappropriate.
It’s indeed a very questionable tactic when one is trying to get to the truth of a matter, arising from a mode of being based on a set of values – supposedly ‘spiritual’ (a basic error there) – that wilfully denigrates reason and fact-based argument, in favour of the allegedly ‘superior’ value of feeling – or even its degenerative form, thoughtless emotion.
You (and many like you) are so uncomfortable with rational discussion that you even regard being “always logical”, “always finding reasons” as deeply suspect; you even call it “your gruesome way to expose facts”. For your information, Anand, that’s what a ‘civilised’ debate is about, so people are able to assess and judge the evidence put before them. The alternative is a type of chaos, a regression to the realm of the immature, even the infantile. Which, of course, suits the immature and the infantile, but is unlikely to yield much truth. And you call me “confused…deluded”?!
For example, how would you like to be involved in a court case where judge, jury, lawyers, witnesses and the accused spend much of the time abusing and yelling at each other?! Not much prospect of a just verdict there!
Again, typical of a certain sannyas mentality, you introduce the old ‘red herring’, so-called “heart”, trying to put down my arguments by saying I’m obviously not “a heart person”, I present no “poetry”…Well, Anand, that’s just tough, old boy, because I’m not about to ‘sing and dance’ my way through this post simply to satisfy your prejudiced expectations, thanks very much! If you can’t take the truth as I present it, then you’re wasting your time reading this.
Your antagonism towards – and misunderstanding of – what my approach seems to represent extends to even distrusting the positives I noted about Rajneesh, causing you to wonder if I’d mentioned them for ‘political’ reasons! Talk about damning with faint praise…Let me tell you now that noting his ‘good points’ was simply telling the truth as I saw it, as was noting the ‘not-so-good’ points.
And as for showing “love” for him: do you think that is some sort of pre-requisite for any critical assessment? Of course not; either he inspires love in me or he doesn’t. Apart from one or two videos I’ve seen (one of which was simply appalling) and despite the positive aspects I noted at the SN threads, on the evidence of his posts at SN these last one or two months, including no fewer than FIVE instances of him not bothering to reply to points I made (before claiming, when challenged, that he had!) plus EIGHT or NINE instances where I found his views and attitudes sorely lacking, I tell you that he doesn’t inspire love in me, on the whole he rather inspires dislike, suspicion, distrust, even – despite clearly ‘having something’ – a sense that despite his grand claims, he’s flawed, not quite what he presents himself as. There it is, my honest response, not some ‘spiritually correct’ bullshine.
As for your defence of these new, young ‘disciples’ of Rajneesh, the ones who have been responding to critical posts about him from me and others, citing their “innocence” and claiming “you can’t hurt the innocent one”, well, let me tell you firstly that basically, having worked with youth in various contexts for several decades, I’m absolutely on the side of young people doing adventurous, enterprising things (including working with Swami Rajneesh of course), I’m all for it, not against.
However, if you really believe these people are so “innocent” then that doesn’t say much for your powers of discrimination or even observation! And if “the innocent” are immune from hurt then how come they’re so bloody angry, so full of fury, virulence and sheer spite? No, they’re not “innocent”, not at all. Relatively inexperienced, naive perhaps, easily led even, but not “innocent”.
As such, contrary to what you suggest, of course I don’t expect them to be “loving”, but it still appears rather odd, and perhaps more than a little suspect, that people who claim to be “getting high” exhibit such a degree of what appears fairly ‘low-grade’ emotion, which includes a notable lack of balance, a kind of over-wrought touchiness (to put it mildly!), the sort of condition that’s readily described as being ‘emotionally possessed’.
So that I wonder whether anyone has prepared them for the inevitable ‘come down’ after the ‘high’, or whether they know yet how to maintain their equilibrium, or whether anyone’s told them how…
Perhaps it’s down to their youth, possible insecurity, a sense of being somehow ‘threatened’…But you so often get such an emotionalised mind-set in ‘cults’, especially those centering around an Eastern teacher.
For example, do you recall the Rajneeshpuram debacle, Anand? It’s highly arguable that such a ‘disaster’ might well have been averted if there had been more respect for the mind and independent rational judgment at that time – what you like to term “smart-arse bullshine”! – instead of this aspect of us being relegated to almost less than even minor importance. As I implied earlier, a set-up that encourages the supremacy of ‘feeling’ to the detriment of reason, rather than a proper balance of the two aspects of being, easily degenerates into outpourings of mindless emotion, which rarely leads anywhere much, except to increased mutual antagonism between its targets and its perpetrators (with the exception of certain structured therapeutic situations).
No need to assume, by the way, that I can’t deal with someone else’s anger, although it would clearly appear to suit your purpose to believe so. I don’t know why you assume such a thing, but I assure you I’m not quite as ‘one-dimensional’ as you apparently like to think. So no need for any patronising remarks to that effect, ok?
The problem for these young people might well be that almost certainly no one has told them the difference between feeling and emotion, and probably also, of that between love and emotion. And I’m not sure you, Anand, know the difference either.
Enough for today?!!
PS: How dare you get your facts wrong – I’m 65, not 64.
Well written comment SD. I quite admire your tenacity for trying to get things clear with people. I couldn’t be bothered. From what I can guage from SR’s fllowers’ comments on SN the common denominator seems to be blind stupidity. I too have watched a few snippets of the swami’s vids. I kind of feel sorry for the guy. He is so obviously a cracked actor playing a role he will find it impossible to carry off to any great extent. There exists a tragi-comedy to his show that can be slightly amusing. My feeling about the man has not changed much since my brief encounter with him in Los Angeles many years ago. He is weird. No big deal.
ok, 65 year old man, let’s have it your way…
i don’t know if i should answer to each paragraph, or just tell you directly what i think… it’s possible you prefer the rationality of paragraph quoting, an argument for an argument, the logical debate, so… let’s see…
sd:
“Anand, you, typical of many sannyasins, seem to have an almost pathological aversion to rational discussion. How many times have we heard that famous put-down, “You’re in your head, man!” and/or other similar outbursts, eg “Don’t you have any feelings, any heart?” from those who can’t or won’t respond, especially when cornered?
first, i don’t have an aversion to rationality, or mind, or thinking, or argumentation for that matter, i was a mindy sannyasin who used to like to think extensively, and used to love to debate about this or that subject, what did osho say? who said what? when? and go around mentally, neverending… i loved to think… and argument…
now, things have changed, so i’m saying the heart is of utmost importance not because i’m averted to reason… i just know that knowledge is useless, because it comes from the mind, mind only knows duality, so whatever it can reason, it can reason just as good the opposite… for example, if you want to learn to ride a bike, you can read all the manuals you want about it, but you will never know how to do it unless you do it and learn how to maintain the balance for yourself… now, i know all those manuals are useless without the experience… all the spiritual information, all the foolosphy and mind games… useless… but still, we can write our little logical and reasonable statements here and debate… about the objective facts…
sd:
“I’ve heard that sort of thing from several young Rajneesh supporters these last few weeks, and now from you, who appear to be rather older, more experienced ‘in the field’ and (slightly) wiser. And – like your utterly misplaced pejorative, “flowery”, for my perception of Rajneesh’s negative traits (eg hypocritical, dishonest, tricky, manipulative etc.) – it’s blindingly inappropriate.”
when i say flowery i’m being sarcastic, my bad, cheap communication skills i guess… you see, sarcasm again… actually, i think you missed some words inside that parenthesis, you could’ve used trickster, clown, trifler, buffoon, impostor, conman, quack, plagiarist, swindler… and many others… some more flowery words for your vocabulary…
sd:
“It’s indeed a very questionable tactic when one is trying to get to the truth of a matter, arising from a mode of being based on a set of values – supposedly ‘spiritual’ (a basic error there) – that wilfully denigrates reason and fact-based argument, in favour of the allegedly ‘superior’ value of feeling – or even its degenerative form, thoughtless emotion.
You (and many like you) are so uncomfortable with rational discussion that you even regard being “always logical”, “always finding reasons” as deeply suspect; you even call it “your gruesome way to expose facts”. For your information, Anand, that’s what a ‘civilised’ debate is about, so people are able to assess and judge the evidence put before them. The alternative is a type of chaos, a regression to the realm of the immature, even the infantile. Which, of course, suits the immature and the infantile, but is unlikely to yield much truth. And you call me “confused…deluded”?!”
it’s not the superior value of feeling… it’s the superior value of silence… or call it love, heartfulness, meditativeness, no mind… it’s higher than reasoning through intellect, i’m sorry, but reasoning will do little when speaking about mystics and the inner experience, but your heart can see clearly… you don’t waste time judging and labeling things, you see them… and in that clarity, real reasoning comes… not a reasoning that comes from fear and mistrust and old mind habits… here, we are not presenting a case, to defend the worthiness of swami rajneesh before your eyes, or someone else’s… so i don’t need to put any facts on the table, though i could… we’re showing something deeper than arguments and logic, and reasoning, and may those who have eyes see…
now, let me explain, reasonably, this immature and infantile thing you are trying to repress in rajneesh’s supporters… first i need to explain love, haha, well, the context of this love… sometimes love becomes a type of identification, when you love your mother, for example, if someone speaks against her you feel hurt, wounded, just because of the identification which comes from this love… she is like an extension of you… you of her…
if you cannot see that attacking rajneesh is attacking someone very dear to them, then you miss the point completely, and then, you try to judge them with a non-less than sanctimonious standpoint, judging their nonconformity with your attacks as something to frown upon… in fact, i would think the infantile behavior comes from some old dogs here… we have seen the facts before… dozens of comments by 3 specific men, so infantile and immature in the way they were talking about osho and his work… they were exposed… yet, you try to turn the tables saying we’re full of anger and virulence… come on…
now, try to see why innocence is there beyond the conditioning… i could explain it like this… there are “bad” people, “evil” people… people who know they’re destroying, hurting, cheating, robbing, lying, manipulating, gossiping, betraying… and even though they know the damage they are doing, they do it… on the other hand, there are “good” people… people who avoid the previous actions… not because of morality, but because it feels natural to them not to do these things… i would call them innocent, good people… you say virulence, i say bravery… you say robot, i say devoted… you say fury, i say fire… this people you are so fiercely attacking are good, innocent people, which means, they are doing the best they can without trying to hurt or take advantage of anyone… not something i could say about every sannyasin…
if innocent people, with no experience, come to rajneesh… he will be getting the juiciest ones… why? trying to teach an old dog a new trick has been said to be an almost impossible task… and i couldn’t agree more… habits die hard, conditioning lives on, better go higher, best go beyond… haha… it’s good he gets innocent newbies, people with a lot of spiritual knowledge are more difficult to work with, less open, your-cup-is-full kind of seeker… and being completely honest with you, satyadeva, these innocent people they’re the most beautiful people… sweet, open, loving, funny, smart, creative, aware, crazy, total, amazing persons…
i’ve heard that if you want to recognize a master you should look at his disciples… and you can see them for yourself… well, actually not, you are not here yet… when you come you’ll see… so please, don’t try to polarize them into the caricatures you have made of them just because they’re defending the one they love and care about… they are not as “one-dimensional” as you would like to think…
sd:
“As such, contrary to what you suggest, of course I don’t expect them to be “loving”, but it still appears rather odd, and perhaps more than a little suspect, that people who claim to be “getting high” exhibit such a degree of what appears fairly ‘low-grade’ emotion, which includes a notable lack of balance, a kind of over-wrought touchiness (to put it mildly!), the sort of condition that’s readily described as being ‘emotionally possessed’.”
you say we are getting high… haha… unfortunately it is not so… we are building an ashram… there’s a lot of work to do… painting, building, designing, cooking, cleaning, networking, SN trolling, SN debating, OIF law suing, etc… we are busy, is not a oh so happy yappy permanent meditation retreat… we are very busy… even our emotionally possessed specialists were sent here to SN to deal with some spiritual bullshine flying around our project…
sd:
“Again, typical of a certain sannyas mentality, you introduce the old ‘red herring’, so-called “heart”, trying to put down my arguments by saying I’m obviously not “a heart person”, I present no “poetry”…Well, Anand, that’s just tough, old boy, because I’m not about to ‘sing and dance’ my way through this post simply to satisfy your prejudiced expectations, thanks very much! If you can’t take the truth as I present it, then you’re wasting your time reading this.”
no satyadeva, i don’t need to see you singing and dancing to see if you are in the heart, i can feel it through your words… but only you know if you are or not there, and it concerns only you…
sd:
“Apart from one or two videos I’ve seen (one of which was simply appalling) and despite the positive aspects I noted at the SN threads, on the evidence of his posts at SN these last one or two months, including no fewer than FIVE instances of him not bothering to reply to points I made (before claiming, when challenged, that he had!)”
haha, if you ask me… he doesn’t answer because he’s teasing you… i’ve seen some of your questions remain unanswered… maybe you are demanding too much attention… maybe you are arrogant in your way of asking… maybe your questions are just silly…
sd:
“plus EIGHT or NINE instances where I found his views and attitudes sorely lacking, I tell you that he doesn’t inspire love in me, on the whole he rather inspires dislike, suspicion, distrust, even – despite clearly ‘having something’ – a sense that despite his grand claims, he’s flawed, not quite what he presents himself as”
i have only ONE surprising disclosure to make… yes, he’s flawed… is it in conflict with your belief that an enlightened person should be perfect?… and i would add, you seem surprisingly interested in finding a final conclusion on rajneesh’s buddhahood…
sd:
“Perhaps it’s down to their youth, possible insecurity, a sense of being somehow ‘threatened’…But you so often get such an emotionalised mind-set in ‘cults’, especially those centering around an Eastern teacher.
For example, do you recall the Rajneeshpuram debacle, Anand? It’s highly arguable that such a ‘disaster’ might well have been averted if there had been more respect for the mind and independent rational judgment at that time”
rajneeshpuram was the previous experiment… it worked as it was supposed to work, this ashram is version 3.0, bigger, better and uncut… and we are watching the mystery school revealing… the creation of a new buddhafield… dancing around a new flower that has the signature of our beloved master gardener… you don’t need believe me, come and see…
and… satyadeva, don’t take our emotions too seriously, we are not that concerned with SN… though it’s fun, sometimes really fun to see what some of you write… you think we have an emotionalized mind-set, haha… because of the comments of three, or four of us! (think, there are hundreds supporting rajneesh)
finally, please tell me if i failed to present solid arguments… maybe you can teach me to debate properly…
Hello,
Can you please send me the email address of the swami? I would like to ask him something.
My email address is web@oshonews.com
Many thanks
Punya
Beloved Ma Punya
Swami Rajneesh personal email is : swamirajneesh@gmail.com
Ah, Mini, still checking in I see. Trust all is well in the Kang bardo.
Lokesh,
Not checking in, am here to stay.
Oh, I see, please keep us updated as the situation worsens.
Brutal
Honesty always is …
I would like to get in contact with Swami Shantam Prem, not with Swami Rajneesh. Please forward my request to Shantam Prem. Thanks and regards. Punya from Osho News
That’s really rather amusing!
He is being hunted down.
An editor managing Osho News writes here.
// Hello,Can you please send me the email address of the swami? I would like to ask him something.
My email address is web@oshonews.com
Many thanks Punya //question
She asks // send me email address of the swami.
Very informative and clear from the Editor of Osho News.
Wonder what the rest of her Osho News section does. No News at Osho News i guess.
i am looking for a severely mentally disturbed swami dressed in a battered kaftan that I met in an irish pub in London in 92.
what was his name now…?
brian ? kumare ? klingon ?
any ideas?
email me at briandamage@yahoo.com
How could you tell he was mentally disturbed? What did you use as a yardstick?
Just shows how you lose track of what the post is about and who has written it.
Well, Punya, if we need directions we now know where to turn.
So Punya
Care to be quoted as to why Osho news is interested?
Punya,
Shantam Prem(Iqbal Singh) is on facebook.
I had some private communications re this string doubting that Osho himself encouraged almost any journalistic interest in Pune one.
I am very sorry to disappoint those with somehow “PR” views, but he did.
Please listen to the whole of the famous Osho “fuck” tape, which I think was part of the Book of the Books series of lectures. Maybe Arpana can give exact details?
The fourth or fifth question that day answers very precisely that whoever comes to the ashram in a journalistic capacity should be encouraged and helped, and Osho’s reasons for saying so. He was at the height of his oratorical powers at that time, and I remember being riveted throughout the whole lecture, which was teeming with jokes, not all on his tab !
The last question:
BELOVED MASTER,
I FEEL SHOCKED WHEN YOU USE THE WORD ‘FUCK’. WHAT TO DO?
Sargamo, it is one of the most beautiful words. The English language should be proud of it. I don’t think
any other language has such a beautiful word.
One Tom from California has done some great research on it. I think he must be the famous Tom of
Tom, Dick and Harry fame.
He says:
One of the most interesting words in the English language today is the word ‘fuck’. It is one magical
word: just by its sound it can describe pain, pleasure, hate and love. In language it falls into many
grammatical categories. It can be used as a verb, both transitive (John fucked Mary) and intransitive (Mary
was fucked by John), and as a noun (Mary is a fine fuck). It can be used as an adjective (Mary is fucking
beautiful). As you can see there are not many words with the versatility of ‘fuck’.
Besides the sexual meaning, there are also the following uses:
Fraud: I got fucked at the used car lot.
Ignorance: Fucked if I know.
Trouble: I guess I am fucked now!
Aggression: Fuck you!
Displeasure: What the fuck is going on here?
Difficulty: I can’t understand this fucking job.Incompetence: He is a fuck-off.
Suspicion: What the fuck are you doing?
Enjoyment: I had a fucking good time.
Request: Get the fuck out of here!
Hostility: I am going to knock your fucking head off!
Greeting: How the fuck are you?
Apathy: Who gives a fuck?
Innovation: Get a bigger fucking hammer.
Surprise: Fuck! You scared the shit out of me!
Anxiety: Today is really fucked.
And it is very healthy too. If every morning you do it as a Transcendental Meditation — just when you
get up, the first thing, repeat the mantra “Fuck you!” five times — it clears the throat. That’s how I keep my
throat clear!
Enough for today.
Osho.
The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 11
Chapter #4
Chapter title: I goofed again!
Oooh, that Bhagwash was a fuckin’ little devil, eh, fuck me, what a fuckin’ little devil he was!
A mailman was delivering his mail during the Christmas season. At one house the door was opened by a beautiful woman wearing a sheer negligee.
“Would you like to come in?” cooed the woman.
“Sure,” replied the startled mailman.
She led him up to her bedroom and made love to him. When they were finished she got up and handed the man a dollar. “Why the dollar?” asked the puzzled mailman.
“Well,” replied the woman, “when I asked
my husband what to give the mailman for Christmas he said ‘Just give him a buck and fuck him!’”
Osho.
Be Still and Know
Chapter #3
Chapter title: No Question, No Answer
Not necessarily the one above, but sometimes I felt that he was delivering jokes he wasn’t getting.
BELOVED MASTER,
WHY ARE THE JOURNALISTS ALWAYS WRITING AGAINST YOU?
http://justpaste.it/WHYARETHEJOURNALISTS
Thanks Arpana.
Now punters here can see what difficulties the Ashram PR machine had when Osho was alive in the seventies! The way of an authentic teacher is to put people off as well as lure people in! This would have put off millions! especially conventional religious people!
Also the link you have pasted is very apposite to this string. “Why are the journalists so much against you?” question. If people listen to this answer they will see how Osho was aware of what they were up to, and how he was using them, rather than vice-versa.