There has been some loose thinking on SN by some, but not all, commentators lately about “Freedom of Speech”. Freedom of Speech is not some anarchic principle through which anyone can say anything. But to read some posts that have been sent to the Editors, anything less than “Total Freedom” is a reason for the tantruming child to throw all the toys out of the pram.
We are not aware of any sannyas sites who embrace “absolute freedom”. Normally in the sannyas world there is very little freedom to comment at all. On the whole SN has received a fair number of congratulations over the years since 2001 in trying in various ways to make room for a broad variety of views. The SN Editors do not censor gratuitously. They consider posts carefully and also within the normal context of libel and other laws that exist (and actually grew up historically in the UK) alongside the very self-same principles of freedom of speech.
Below we give a recent difficult example from India, within which such issues could be discussed.
In the 1990s, Indian artist MF Husain was the subject of a very heated campaign after painting Hindu gods and goddesses naked. He received death threats and had his work vandalised. Hundreds of complaints were brought against the artist, leading to his prosecution under sections 295 and 153A of India’s Penal Code, which outlaw insulting religions, as well as promoting animosity between religious groups. The cases against Husain were eventually thrown out, but the spectre of new legal battles combined with violent threats and harassment pushed Husain to flee his home country. He never returned, and died in exile last year. How far was Husain a victim of censorship, (or ignoring the violent threats), an attempt to place freedom of expression within a proper institutional framework?
FREEDOM: LICENTIOUS OR RESPONSIBLE
When discussing freedom, some fallaciously believe, or would like to believe, that freedom grants license to do whatever one pleases. This implies that disrespect toward others and violations of their rights are permitted. It assumes license to do anything one pleases.
Freedom does not enjoy the right to disrespect others, and it does not permit violation of the rights of another person. The word “license” when applied to freedom means to do whatever one pleases; however, license is not inherent in freedom. Freedom has a boundary, and that boundary is the rights of another person. Where one person’s rights begin, another person’s freedom ends. Freedom is enjoyed by everyone when the speech and/or actions of one person do not infringe upon another person’s freedom to achieve his own internalized goals.
Summary: Licentious freedom is irresponsible. It appeals to people’s volition to constantly make decisions to disrupt the environment wherever they are, violating the rights of others and showing disrespect for them. Responsible freedom, on the other hand, appeals to people’s volition to make decisions to maintain the integrity of the environment wherever they are and thereby show respect for others. RTP teaches others to be responsible with their God-granted freedom.
http://www.brettell.org/book/freedomnotlicense.htm
So remember one thing: freedom is not license. Freedom is responsibility. And if you cannot take your responsibility yourself, then somebody is going to take the responsibility on your behalf. And then you are enslaved.
Osho.
From Bondage to Freedom
Chapter #4
Chapter title: Where do we go from here?
Here on SN , there have been times when I have been really put down , I have mostly voiced my angst if I felt the need . Still I feel it has been one of the best sites where there has been an opportunity for learning & unlearning . I appreciate SN for it’s openness . As for ‘ Freedom of Speech and its Protection ‘ , the present team seem to be doing a fairly good job .
Lately I have noticed a lot of post have been edited after they have been published by SN / contributor , I guess its a new feature .
Master Shunyo does give a feeling that he is in the welcome center trying to get his entry gate pass .
Looks like my summer break is still pending
Kavita said.
Here on SN , there have been times when I have been really put down , I have mostly voiced my angst if I felt the need . Still I feel it has been one of the best sites where there has been an opportunity for learning & unlearning .
+++++++++++++++
Yes. I agree.
A challenging and very rewarding site to be involved with.
free speech is necessary in a free humanity
and is under threat from all directions
most of the media is controlled and filtered by the super rich class of bankers and corporations –
and speech is not free, its manipulated and one sided usually
the internet technology has given ordinary people for the first time a hugely expanded medium for freedom of speech
when before most were limited to a chat with a few friends down the pub as a means of expression
now anyone can say what they like to friends all over the world !
Its a chance to bring all into the light that was formerly hidden knowledge
and to counter invented lies and propaganda
Freedom of speech is essential for todays humanity
people should not be afraid to use it
or be intimidated by others
the greatest protection of free speech is using it –
speaking freely – and saying your truth – without fear
speaking freely not in fear
covering up the truth is the ordinary media
our alternative internet media is still a media to speak freely -
I hope it remains so and survives the efforts of the vested interests to control things
I remember osho saying – the negative people shout loudest, and those in favour of me are silent – we should not be silent – speak out !
Quite so, DR, but with freedom comes its concomitant: responsibility. The two are far from always bracketed together in certain mentalities, that are all too ready to cast aspersions on others without providing adequate evidence for such accusations and innuendo. So that so-called ‘free speech’ degenerates to slander or at best, name-calling.
Plenty of evidence of that here these last few weeks…
At worst, of course, some people choose to demand the ‘right’ to freely accuse others of serious crimes, ignoring – despite warnings – the possible/probable resulting legal consequences
(eg the forced closure of this site, which I recall has already happened in the past). Please take note, Dhyan Raj, Swami Rajneesh, Roxane et al.
Also, this new freedom of information is a double-edged sword. Despite the benefits, one of the worst aspects of this ‘instant communication’ online world is that it allows us to perpetrate undigested views and half-baked opinions on the rest of the world, tending to encourage emotion-based outpouring rather than attempts at more objective assessment. When every relatively uninformed ‘Tom, Dick or Harriet’ thinks his/her emotionally biased views are as valid as anything else, then we’re getting into deep trouble. With truth (and even Truth) the loser.
Bravo satyadava well put!
I concur with your assessment of half baked opinions & emotion based outpouring littering the Internet and the lack of responsibility behind those expressions.
The ability to be hide behind a screen further compounds the lack of responsibility by a significant number of people on the Internet.
And I also firmly agree with dhyanraj’s statement that the lack of ability to speak freely without fear, is one of the primary hindrances to the progress of humanity.
My feeling is that those in positions of power (polititians & priests) lead the masses to thinking that NOT taking responsiblity for ones own action & words is the norm. Nevermind what they preach.
And people can speak freely only to a certain extent before the goons start coming after you.
The Internet though, gives the rebellious spirits the ability to destroy those norms & opens the door for the masses to transcend these invisible shackles cast upon us by these bastards in power.
Great discussion topic.
Looking forward to reading other points of views!
One man’s freedom of speech is another man’s reader generated content. What I have noticed (from other subjects) is that, to start with people have much to say and outperform the official sites, but as time goes on (say after 10 ten years or so) people run out of things to say, and the good ones go on to make their own blogs and attract advertising, etc, and the official sites are still the official sites.
If you were running this site, only your cronies would be allowed to post here. The rest of us would be banned.
with freedom comes response-ability- the ability to respond freely to the challenges of the moment
i dont see that truth is the loser
perhaps some people think as theyve been taught to think “responsiblity” is a duty, a requirement of the state to uphold the false dreams and desires of establishment brainwashing –
now i hear that the majority of americans are diagnosed mentally ill and are on psycho drugs of one kind or another – the profits are huge for the pharmaceutical drug companies –
the children are also hooked on drugs in america at an early age to produce a lifetime of sickness for them
are we responsible people to ignore crimes like this for fear of hurting the feelings of drug company owners?
or keep silent about subjects like euthanasia out of fear, covering it up?
freedom of speech should not be an elitist intellectuals prerogative as satydeva suggests –
who is going to decide to control free speech of others deciding which view was valid about what ?
that only speak freely if you follow my view
on pain of censor ship and worse say your own view
you well remember the abuse of rajneesh and osho here on sannyas news since long time – how long can such abuse be left unanswered ? –
freedom of speech for some has been seen as a licence to abuse osho and his disciples – but they shouldnt cry if they get some of their own medicine should they?
Yeah yeah.
If you disagree with others that’s because they are evil.
If they disagree with you that’s also because they are evil.
Its called heads you. win tails you win.
Grow up
happy 68th birthday parmartha –
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151615781369614&set=a.474739459613.260216.770044613&type=1&theater
freedom of expression and speech
is one of the most valued freedoms we need to protect
the struggle of the rebel…seeking the freedom of speech…
the right to have a voice and seek justice
or to expose issues that matter…
one has to understand that those who are powerful and in control
are trampling on these rights of people by oppressing freedoms
power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely…
a simple insight…
have you ever come across any dictator or seen the ones in power
fight for the freedom of speech ??
the ones in power manipulate by use of blackmail force or threats…
to dominate others by misuse and abuse of power…
to control those who are weaker and have no voice…
this to me is the real struggle…might over right…
here is where freedom of speech is of greatest value
freedom for the rebellious spirit…
it is spiritual fire…
I wouldn’t argue with that, Swami Rajneesh, you’re clearly a true libertarian democrat – more than just a respecter, but a lover of freedom.
However, I hope you’d agree that accusation without sufficient evidence, baseless innuendo and running a “smear campaign” against one’s ‘enemies’, painting them as totally without redeeming qualities (thereby implying oneself and one’s supporters to be the very quintessence of ‘virtue’) are as reprehensible as freedom of speech is desirable?
Unless one is happy to descend to the level of any mediocre yet cunning, neurotic, power-seeker…
In other words, on the other side of the coin, equally important, lies responsibility. That’s surely one of the main differences between a ‘statesman’ and an ordinary, self-serving politician.
Do you measure up to the requirements? On current evidence, not yet, it would seem…
(I mean, you can’t even find it in yourself to reply to any significant challenge on here, when you’re cornered (see my post to you, yesterday). Some leader you are!).
satyadeva – do you think it right that when important evidence comes to light regarding the death of our master osho it should be suppressed and covered up?
this is the antithesis of free speech isnt it?
out of fear creating censorship of free expression of views?
you say such views are “baseless innuendo” when there is a base of evidence that is not allowed to be printed here
our responsibility lies in bringing the truth to the attention of all concerned – all oshos sannyasins
the irresponsible course lies in the cover up
that look the other way and refuse to see
The letter from “Doctor Death” would prove one thing,if real:
That this doc himself was a co-conspirator in any crime that was commited.
The man has been completely unethical and corrupt and criminal in signing the certificate.
Now,after continuing the lie for 24 years he is suddenly the star witness and harbinger of truth?
Ahem….
If you are so sure of the truth,why not gather the evidence and press the case?
On the other hand,it is probably just easier to spread the rumours and whip up a bit of support amongst the disaffected.
That will get you plenty of support without having to go to court.
Smart move!
Right on, Anand Yogi!
(PS: Are you the Kiwi Anand Yogi?!)
No, Dhyan Raj, once again you exhibit the foolishness of a man who doesn’t appear to understand the basic practicalities of the law, of how the world works.
You, I and everyone here have been told several times what the situation is regarding publishing such accusations, that it might well lead to the closure of this very site that you think should stick its neck out and take such a risk. That would amount to shooting oneself – both SN and you lot – in the foot, wouldn’t it?
Whether you like it or not, SN doesn’t exist solely to further Swami Rajneesh’s agenda, it’s neither his nor your ‘property’. That’s obvious, of course, but it seems one has to spell out the obvious several times in order for you to get the simple message about how things are, how they run in this world.
The reality is that some always have more say, more power than others, it’s a fact of life.
If Swami R and you don’t like it, why don’t you just publish all your allegations, all your so-called ‘evidence’ at your own site, instead of expecting this one to take all the risks?
Or better, take it to Court if you’re so sure of your case, as only there, with both sides getting a full hearing, will prove anything, one way or the other, without any ulterior, agenda-serving propaganda muddying the waters.
In other words, take full responsibility for yourself instead of expecting others to bear it on your behalf.
The plausibility of ignorance.
strange satyadeva
i have the courage to answer directly any message
have you tried anyone at OIF
a single one has every presented a single direct answer ??
if i was seeking power i would never remain openly available but hide behind advisors
and others to do my dirty work of exposing publicly…
the only power is truth…truth is always victorious…
and i am not a leader of anything…
i cannot even walk…
and everyone knows i am too lazy to lead…
i just follow my heart for my master OSHO…
Swami Rajneesh:
strange satyadeva
i have the courage to answer directly any message
have you tried anyone at OIF
a single one has every presented a single direct answer ??
SD:
What is “strange”, Swami R, is how you conveniently overlook the number of times that you have chosen to remain silent when I (and others) have confronted you with issues that might expose your attitudes and flawed reasoning. In other words, my experience of you on here is when cornered you just shut up – and probably hope the question and the questioner just disappear.
Hardly the stuff of a wise, ‘enlightened’ one…More like any old politician on the make.
Then you, again like any cornered politician, use the old ploy of diverting attention onto the alleged flaws of your ‘evil’ enemies. While maintaining (in your response to Anand Yogi) that you “have no enemies”. If they’re not your enemies, what are they? Be honest, for Christ’s sake.
As for your last paragraph:
and i am not a leader of anything…
i cannot even walk…
and everyone knows i am too lazy to lead…
i just follow my heart for my master OSHO…
Well, do you really think people are going to believe such disingenuous crap? Such falsehood, trying to create an impression of such ‘innocence’, but in fact succeeding once again only in further cementing the picture so far of a very cunning, manipulative, dishonest, perhaps self-deluding character.
Who do you think you’re kidding, Mr Rajneesh?
satyadeva
i have always responded to every question
you have asked me here on sannyas news…
even though you choose to label me
cunning manipulative dishonest self deluding mediocre politician to exhaust all the vocabulary from the dictionary…
should i search for some more words for you ?
please appreciate that i have painstakingly answered every single question openly here and received nothing but more abuse !
what is the question i have been evading ??
place it clearly on record !!!
Unfortunately, Swami Rajneesh, this is absolutely untrue. Either your memory is at fault or you’re choosing to ignore a few things for, shall we say, the sake of ‘convenience’ (yours).
And there’s not just one but several instances where you must have been stuck for an answer so didn’t bother to respond.
It seems you confuse an honest, albeit critical response with “abuse”, while freely dishing out the abuse yourself when it suits your own purpose. Another example of double standards: one rule for you and your supporters, another for everyone else.
Rest assured I’ll certainly let you know where you’ve failed to provide an answer when ‘cornered’. But not right now as I’m very busy preparing for a trip abroad (don’t worry, not to Mexico!) leaving home later this evening.
Still, nothing stopping you doing a bit of research yourself (except the ‘laziness’ you like to almost ‘glorify’), so why not take a look back on SN yourself? After all the onus should be on you in such a case, shouldn’t it?
swami rajneesh says:
“Freedom of expression and speech is one of the most valued freedoms we need to protect”
Then why are Comments on your YouTube videos disabled?
anubodh…good question…
my youtube videos are casual spontaneous talks…
i accept live debate comfortably…
people can always come to the free events
and ask any question directly and openly to me…
then it is real authentic and direct face to face…
i have never ever prevented anyone from any asking any type of question to me and have answered them openly
listening to my videos is one thing
commenting and placing opinions are another
i prefer to keep the video section for listening…
and if you like it you can come to my events
if not then just move on and continue your life…
life is very precious…one cannot live forever
your time is valuable…why waste time ??
Swami Rajneesh:
i have never ever prevented anyone from any asking any type of question to me and have answered them openly
SD:
Except on here, Swami Rajneesh.
Swami Rajneesh:
Once a lady who was on the verge of taking sannyas asked me very directly if Bhagwan was genuine? Or was she about to make a big mistake in her life.
When ‘outsiders’ view your YouTube videos many would like to ask the same question.
Many who are unable to travel to your events or are unaware of your preferences. And so can only seek guidance from their peers.
Which unfortunately is not available.
If the reason you have disabled the comments is because you do not want to receive a torrent of abuse? that is perfectly acceptable and would take precedence over free speech. And I would support you in that.
Has honesty become so difficult.
All “Official Sites” do not allow negative comments of “their product” on their site. SN is a beacon in the storm. Is SN an “Official Site”? What is SN? (you don’t have to answer).
I have been looking at the online situation for the last six months and I cannot for the hell of me figure out ‘what might be needed’. In the past I was involved with two online projects. In the period 1994-2001 I was running a Marilyn Manson site. MM in the early days was an internet created, promoted, and run phenomenon. And from 2001 until I came here I was involved with a Horology forum that was created as a reaction to official sites not allowing negative comments and therefore no chance for evolution …
The main difference between those two examples and ‘sannyas’ is that both of those situations were ‘born on line’ to give free speece whereas the sannyas condition is of something that already exists in the meat-world and doesn’t translate very well online.
My main online-problem at the moment is trying to identify, “How do people find Osho?” What would they be looking for and where, to bump into him? For the moment he seems to primarily appear in the ‘alternative medicine territory’ (no comment), and a little bit in the ‘occupy movement’ (again no comment) but I am sure new areas can be identified. My feeling is that the answer will arise out of a need we/I don’t yet have.
A girl takes her new boyfriend home, they get into bed
and she immediately suggests they do 69.
“69 ? What the hell is that ?” The boy asks the girl.
Realising that he wasn’t experienced, she tells him:
“I place my head between your legs and you place yours between mine.”
Not knowing what she was talking about, but getting excited, the boy agrees. They get into position, and the girl accidentally lets out a big loud smelly fart. They boy gagging drags himself out from position, rolls over to one side surprised at what happened. The girl extremely embarrassed asked him to forgive her and they get back into position. Again she lets out another big one.
The boy with a horrifying look on his face gets up and begins to get dressed.
“What, why are you leaving ?” The girl asks. The boy responded
“You think that I am going to stick around for another 67 farts ?”
beloved paramartha…
just heard you completed 68 years today !
wish you love on this day of your birth
running on 69…
life gets deeper and far more fulfilling…kamasutra years arriving…
the past 68 years were nothing…now comes the real thing !!!
wishing you a long life of joy and blissfulness…
Nice gesture, Swami R, well deserved recognition for Parmartha, who over the decades has taken many initiatives to serve the ‘sannyas community’. He richly deserves our good wishes for that and for his present and future good health.
But also I have to say that your choice of ‘funny story’ is rather odd, to put it mildly. I find it even rather offensive in fact, not funny at all really – it, er, leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth, as it were…
And I’m wondering what led you to pick that particular one – something, perhaps, in your unconscious (assuming you still have one, of course!), some sort of covert hostility or at least ‘uneasiness’ at feeling a need to acknowledge a certain ‘dependency’ on the good offices of this site to put out your version of ‘sannyas reality’…?
sorry satyadeva…the joke was…for paramarta…
though i admit not the best we could find…
but in the context of life getting better after 68…
this 69 joke was clearly doing a headstand…
Sorry, Swami Rajneesh, putting something on an online forum inherently means it’s for everyone’s consumption, whoever one specifically directs it to.
It was a rather ugly little story, in poor taste, from which you don’t emerge with any credit at all.
satyadeva…
my only question for you….
honestly…do you have a girlfriend ??
or is sannyasnews your only escape
from boredom and frustration ??
Well, Swami R, you’re really scraping the barrel now, eh? Another typical ploy meant to undermine the ‘target’. One might ask a similar question of you…
Unfortunately though, you’ve missed as the answer is ‘yes’ and we’re both just about to enjoy a little holiday.
For a 65 year-old, I’m not doing too bad. (Thanks for your evident concern).
ha ha ha ha – outrageous eh satyadeva – a farting joke – how can this be ?
ha ha ha ha ha
A joke in poor taste (to coin a phrase)…I’ve found no one so far who enjoyed it.
Par for the course though for a great devotee such as yourself, I suppose….
very funny you are satyedeva like your other bodies you exagerate so much because somebody makes a fart joke or girlffriend joke you all have to make it sound as if “oh my god!! what a shock !! what terror !!”.. why all this short theater?! this fake shocking?! it seems you have ol’expired opinions about saints and enlightened people ..self righteouss priest like taste
If you think that’s funny – and appropriate for someone’s birthday – then you’re not someone I’d particularly care to know, Roxana.
well satyadeva – most of oshos jokes werent funny or appropriate either were they?
perhaps you dont like to know him either – you certainly like to make mountains out of molehills dont you
well up to now i see you’re quite the friend-dictator lots of people you wouldn’t like to know just cause they don’t share your sense of humour..quite the friendly guy you are…but it is known that old people start getting cranky and unfriendly…just to some of them..that don’t keep their heart open
Well, one woman’s fart is another man’s shit, Roxana.
Perhaps you’d care to er, ‘meditate’ on that….
it was just a crap joke.
no wonder the clown guys all left the site.
they were all trying to put rajneesh and his cronies down and make them look stupid,
but they went out of a job,as rajneesh and co are doing a much better job of it themselves!!
True what anand yogi said :29 May, 2013 at 9:40 pm.
maybe the new is also fresh , but all all freshness is not nourishing for all , at least not for me .
SatyaDeva,
On hearing Parmartha was ill in hospital, Swami Rajneesh sent a personal email to him to get well soon.
Rajneesh was expressing that older sannyasins are very valuable and not replaceable and wishes them long life.
Rajneesh was asking Paramartha keep alive long as possible.
His joke implied that real life begins after 69
But you can spin a joke in any direction you want, and even discuss a joke with seriousness.
Did you notice that I acknowledged Swami R’s birthday greetings to Parmartha?
But I maintain the joke was in poor taste. If you don’t agree, fine.
This seems to me to be a pretty bizarre conversation.
Swami Rajneesh is extolling the virtues of free speech on the internet in flowery Osho-esque language.
Yet this is ther same man who is attempting to smear his sworn enemies here on this internet site with completely unsubstantiated and malicious rumours of murder and rape.
People are strange!
anand yogi
i have no enemies…from my end…
i love and accept all sannyasins…
never trespass on another ones freedom…
nor allow others to trespass into your freedom…
i am simply defending my freedom and rights against OIF abuses
they are in power…not me remember…
they are oppressing sannyasins ..not me remember…
my statements have factual evidence and are being placed
for people to see how power corrupts
and expose the misuse of power and abuse…
this is freedom of speech for a rebel…
Swami Rajneesh:
never trespass on another ones freedom…
nor allow others to trespass into your freedom…
SD:
Yes, which includes making unsubstantiated allegations of a most serious nature (murder, assisted suicide, rape) on an internet forum.
Do you not perceive the hypocrisy in this pantomime of yours?
The true thing to do would be to just shut up and take it to to Court. Which in fact I doubt you’ll ever bother to do, there being far more possible mileage – and far less possibility of bankruptcy – in, as Anand Yogi said, simply piling on the allegations, hoping to recruit the disaffected.
satyadeva – you keep on bringing up murder allegations etcetera when you know we cannot comment on sannyas news freely about such matters –
how to respond to you ? – you feel its good if we shut up about it here and yet you ask the question again and again and now yogi is also asking for response
sannyas news you say is under threat of closure if we talk about it – i dont want to see sannyas news closed – so we wont talk about it then – and you wont keep bringing it up either will you?
sannyasins can see what we are talking about on facebook
No, DR, as so often you wilfully misunderstand the point. Which is concerning the principle of ‘trespassing on another’s freedom’.
Swami R was declaring the huge importance of not doing that, while apparently blind to what he, you and others have been up to on here, regarding the case in question.
The ‘freedom’ of both SN and of the targets of such allegations.
Good that you’ve finally seem to have grasped the point – although it’s sure taken you lot a long time.
ED: MINI KANG’S COMMENT NOT INCLUDED AS IT’S ALREADY BEEN PUBLISHED HERE.
Why it shows waiting moderation ??
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
29 May, 2013 at 9:54 pm
ED: IT WAS PUBLISHED YESTERDAY AFTERNOON AT 1.22pm
swami rajneesh,you say:
“i love and accept all sannyasins”
you love and accept people and at the same time accuse them of murder,rape and paedophilia?
really!??
mini.
how did you guess?
yes,most of my good friends are paedo rapist killers in positions of religious power.
i recently sent them a new consignment of viagra.
so,if you go to the resort,
remember to be on the look-out for some hardened religious criminals!!
our very own american yogi says :
// mini. how did you guess? yes,most of my good friends are paedo rapist killers in positions of religious power. i recently sent them a new consignment of viagra. so,if you go to the resort, remember to be on the look-out for some hardened religious criminals!! //
guess what american yogi…
mini found it very easy…just by reading your comments…
especially now after your own admission
of sending consignments of viagra to the resort…
to feel they are in power…the impotent
resort management team desperately need viagra !
(ED: 2 LINES DELETED HERE, DUE TO CONTRAVENING PREVIOUSLY PUBLISHED LEGAL GUIDELINES)
how viagra many pills do you secretly keep for yourself ??
do not be ashamed to tell us…
this is a public confesssion box
and many resort priests are also silently luring around here
excitedly listening !!
just the mention…
that you are their viagra consignment supplier
will get them very excited…
and give you free resort gate passes
perhaps a room with a secret job also
and thanks for the “ look out “ warning and advise…
but do not worry…
all our young innocent juicy sannyasins are banned
and anyway no one goes there anymore…
so no need to lookout for some hardcore criminals
swami rajneesh.
yes,its true,i supply them with viagra.
its good stuff.
i have a letter from a doctor and some very HARD evidence to prove it,also.
and,as you ask,yes, i have taken a couple of Vs this mright now,orning.
i`ve got a massive hard-on and a couple of jailbait innocent sannyasin russians nibbling my nozzle .or are they asians?oh well,who cares as long as they`re young,eh?
you heard osho`s indian hitchhiker joke didnt you?
come on,follow the teaching.
i like a bit of bareback.
oh sorry,i forgot your machinery`s not working.
well,you shouldn`t interfere with other people`s freedoms just because you`ve got a floppy,should you?
i cant wait to get back to the resort,get completely pissed and foist myself on some more innocents.
get well soon.
Anand Yogi, First time meet you here.
I am Russian girl, so if you come Russia, not say you use Viagra, or all young girls runs away. Russian man never take Viagra, very strong natural.
Also your friend only use Bull Shine and Bull Ocks words,
We never hear the word Bull Shine , but hear Bull Shit many times.
And I read dictionary, what mean Bull Ocks now.
In Russia be careful if you say Bull Ocks, some gay man will come to you from behind and give you a some Bull with Viagra,
and you know very well what happens.
In poona Resort bar place they do lot of Bull Ocks,
so better go Resort for Bull Ocks practice. Or even Bull Shine with girls,
Or Bull Shit is the practice meditation.
I think these wise words are from Resort sannyas people ??
Oh dear, such innocence!
hey,tarika,
i like strong russian girl.
i come russia next week.
i bring viagra and johnny walker whisky, and sam from resort.
you bring young sisters and cousins.
swami rajputin can watch.
ok?
noshotrovia!!
mm – is it frank, or lokesh or martyn? – something in yogis style of writing and out of topic subject matter looks very familiar – ha ha ha ha –
keep up the good work yogi – show the world how are oshos sannyasins and the wisdom they have gained from osho –
ha ha ha ha ha
DR.
when is the last time you pulled an asian girl or won a legal dispute?
no need to answer!
you have got a lot of catching up to do with those resort guys!
hahahaha
Yogi american
Try pull Russian leg, and win legal dispute in Russia,
Russian legal dispute finish very fast. Person missing to come court.
Come Russia, we show you american how real life.
I know Resort guys, i go Resort. I am 21 and all old dirty hungry sannyas men run after me. Impotent dirty men only after girls.
Drink bar wine and show power, but young Russian girl can see.
Say they with Osho many many years, and know every Osho words, so come to their room to hear more Osho. One say big man take me Osho room inside and show all books, private Samadhi, and push me hard for sex. All say they are power in Resort, but only girls demand for sex.
This is Osho Resort ? Then Russian dog also not go.
Hate to disillusion you, Tarika, but it was pretty well always like that in the Poona ashram – only ‘worse’.
Truth is, in a way you have it fairly easy these days
If that shocks you then you might well have been receiving false information, a ‘rose-coloured’, idealised picture of the past from others, eg Swami R and Dhyan Raj. If not them, then others with a similar agenda. Such people are also trying to take advantage of your inexperience, your naivete.
Do you guys nothing else in your mind than the Resort. Give it a rest. Please.
Carry on like that, Swami R, and they won’t be “innocent” for long, eh, eh, eh?!
Anand american Yogi says :
// “i love and accept all sannyasins”
you love and accept people and at the same time accuse them of murder,rape and paedophilia???
really!??
Love and acceptance does to mean that Swami Rajneesh accepts Murder, Rapist or Paedophilia !!
You seem confused and do not know the difference between the love and acceptance of all sannyasins,
and what he speaks against, that we should not love or accept such things.
i don’t understand satyedeva what exactly is that you seek from swami rajneesh? what has he to answer to you? did he wrong you in any way? if there is somebody who should be answerable here it is amrito jayesh, oif .. they are the ones who nowadays are misusing osho’s name and legacy..and he you are in every post on sannyas you keep on repeating the same thing that rajneesh doesn’t want to answer to you…what he should answer to you satyadeva and why should he be answerable to you? you are just two fellow travelers sharing eachother..nobody is leading anybody..unless you see rajneesh as a leader and you think he should answerable to you… otherwise supposedly we are on the same side…
Roxana, if a spiritual teacher is of any worth he or she has to be prepared to come in front of the people and answer questions. Then the people can judge what he’s worth, whether he’s worthy.
Swami Rajneesh makes certain claims for himself and places himself at the forefront of a ‘rebellion’ in the ‘little-but-wonderful’ world of Sannyas. To his credit, he discusses all sorts of things and therefore it’s only right that he is challenged by intelligent questions so that the people can make up their minds about him and what he stands for.
Yet as I’ve said, on several occasions he’s failed to address certain points where he appears to have been proven wrong or where there are issues he prefers not to deal with.
And you think this is acceptable for someone of his standing? You think he knows everything, is incapable of misjudgment, can not and should not be challenged? What sort of mentality is this? Or are you just someone who likes to follow, unthinkingly, blindly, without discrimination?
As I’ve said before, you really do need to consider things more carefully before you ‘open your mouth’. Unless you want to be yet another of the impulsive ones clutterinmg the online forums with their ill-considered, undigested junk.
rajneesh has responded to your questions and challenges hasnt he satyadeva – and many times –
think yourself lucky – osho did not have internet in his day and could not engage with disciples like you so directly
but you are never satisfied – rajneesh answers you and you say he has not answered you –
you are forever inventing new mind problems for him to solve for you – even making a problem out of a joke
even a joke offends your idea of freedom of speech – which is that there should not be any freedom of speech as someone may get upset if people talk freely
particularly those with vested interests in keeping lies going
and freedom of speech belongs only to the powerful you say – thats just how it is you say – ha ha ha ha ha -
people should accept any lies they are told by those more powerful than themselves eh satyadeva – thats the right way to be free – ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Sheer unadulterated bullshine from you once again, DR.
Apart from being totally mistaken regarding Rajneesh’s responses to my points, you fail to grasp the point I’m making re worldly practicalities.
I have a strong impression that you and other Swami R ‘fans’ are actually existing in a sort of unworldly ‘bubble’, detached from the realities that inform and constrain most of us, as if you’re living in perpetual adolescence, rather like the chanters of that old 60′s slogan: “We want the world and we want it now”.
I’m not saying we should “accept lies”, you’re too prone to put words in my mouth, DR, evidently far too emotionally overwrought to see and express things clearly. The point is that, like it or not, there are some things that can only be achieved through patience, by going through legal processes. For otherwise the alternative too easily degenerates into innuendo, exaggeration, ‘strategic lies’ – in short, propaganda or a “smear campaign”, the very antithesis of free speech, the very opposite of the values allegedly being fought for.
That’s so often – invariably, it would seem – the problem with righteously indignant and/or self-styled ‘revolutionary’ movements:
They too easily assume that the end always justifies the means and they end up as bad as, or worse than their original ‘enemies’.
That’s a danger I see your lot facing, from evidence so far.
satyadeva from what i’ve been seeing the past few weeks here in sannyasnews is that these “with their ill-considered, undigested junk.” is usually coming from you or the others comentors here in sanyasnews…why is it of more concern that rajneesh should answer to you than many other subjects that could be discussed here .. seems you are more interested in pickin on rajneesh or telling me what to do instead of writing an interesting article that we could all discuss here..pickin on someones jokes or someones choice of opening their mouths shouldnt be any of your concern….it just shows that you’re like one of those ol’ladies that don’t have what to do with their time so they pick on their neighbours and start gossiping… if you want a discussion with swami rajneesh here’s an advice , write to him personally if you are so interested in his answers..
So, we are happy to be just co-enlightend and not spiritual teacher, responding through self re-spectation only when it leads closer to truth and the resulting Freedom.
Satya Deva,
I read all your comments here, and see you only like a possessed to attack Swami Rajneesh every comment.
And say you are 65 year old sannyas ?? I hope i not grow old like you.
Rajneesh always talk freedom and allow freedom. I see him always allow freedom to everyone in all case i see in Russia. He say we must keep Rebel Spirit alive because Fire need for Truth.
I remember one meditation camp in Russia and one very drunk man come and start shout at Rajneesh very angry and drunk. He was trying rush to attack Rajneesh so many people catch and stop the man attack.
Rajneesh smile and ask friends to leave him and he can shout anything,
and if want can come closer. The drunk man come close in angry and when come to Rajneesh he just stop and start cry.
I see many people come to Rajneesh camp sent by Poona Resort to make trouble in camps by purpose. We know every who they are, and tell Rajneesh, who always laugh and say, beautiful, allow them come, it will be juicy, and when they come they will fall in love and understand the truth and the lies.
I have seen many many Russian come against to Rajneesh first time,
all become his lover and no even one against Rajneesh after meeting him.
So what say you in not understand but always make judge only.
If you are 65 year then show wise sannyas and not judge who speak lie.
Your problem, Tarika, is that you can’t bear anything to be said against Swami Rajneesh, whatever the issue. You’re blind to his faults and so believe he’s ‘infallible’ or something.
He may be a gifted teacher, a sincere man, he may be able to help and inspire people new to the world of meditation, of ‘energy’, but on current evidence, for me he’s certainly no ‘Master’. In fact, I think he suffers a certain degree of ‘hubris’, of delusion as to his actual degree of ‘realisation’ (or ‘enlightenment’).
I won’t list his not-so-good aspects again, but see other posts of mine on the topic and they might be there.
satyadeva you make me smile ~~ your attitude of ” i am older sannyasin you shut up” is clearly funny and infantile … to me it seems you are just trying to prrove a point that your opinion on swami rajneesh is right (although again i dont know what is based ojn..exxcept a few comments here on sannyasnews, but i am more than sure that you didn’t read at least one book fully of his or watched his videos) …. whatever answers you think rajneesh owns to you that is again your pionion..from what i see is that he has never ran away from disscusion especially if someone challenges him..it might be that you have nothing challenging for him just same old attacks that others have been doing…
and i appreciate you beeing concerned when i should open my mouth or who i should follow.. so keep these opinions to yourself.. i got your point mr know it all
Again, I repeat, that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You’re the one who doesn’t check your sources, right? So you descend into the pit of falsity, of emotionally-driven, half-baked, biased bullshine. Fine advert for “free speech” you are, young lady! You’re the very type that needs further education in its theory and practice – plus a training in how to approach an issue with at least a bare modicum of objectivity. Unless that’s all just ‘too much mind’ for you (that old mantra of the emotionally-biased, intellectually lazy.
Seems as if youre still makinbg the same fundamental error. As I said, I’ll be detailing where he’s failed to respond in due course (when I’ve fully recovered from a sleepless night of preparation and travel).
As for judging Swami R by “a few comments here”, well, why not? Look, this guy declares himself Osho’s ‘successor’, first in a lineage of 14, right?
If you make that sort of claim then you’d better be able to demonstrate your worth, whatever the context.
also just realised that you keep telling people how and when they should talk or joke on a thread that talks about freedom of speech haha what a joke
Some people do not understand the real significance of Swami Rajneesh.
We newcomers feel that if Osho was the greatest Master, as all sannyasins claim him to be, then we should come across some living wise sannyasins who have moved in their spiritual journey.
23 years have passed, most Osho sannyasins who were alive have died.
What a shame are only few who were with Osho alive today.
If Osho declared 10,000 buddhas, where are they ??
Maybe 100 buddhas then also where are they ??
Maybe 10 buddhas then where are they ??
Seems if even 1 buddha declares his awakening, he gets attacked and abused !!
This is Anti Osho message, and a great disillusionment for all sannyas movement. Either the Master Osho has failed, or sannyasins are bitter
and judgmental or jealous and do not want anyone to declare anything.
Sannyasins wish all the people should remain in darkness.
What a plain childish stupid idea to ban anyone for declaring enlightenment !
They should dance and celebrate, that one of their fellow travelers has finally seen the light and has the courage to stand up and humbly declare.
That Swami Rajneesh is openly declaring his love and devotee hood
That his Master Osho awakened him.
So what is the problem if one declares enlightenment ??
This is the question that scares many newcomers, who are afraid of the collective mob mentality of jealous sannyasins and become afraid
to even talk about their beautiful experiences.
What a sad story, how all Buddhas have been crucified for their love.
What a sad story, and no inspiration for anyone.
Swami Rajneesh is a living inspiration for thousands of newcomers
who are now moving towards him, and we know that he is an authentic individual who has spent 32 years on the path.
Those how attack Rajneesh are contributing to Anti Osho message,
and creating fear for newcomers.
First, mini kang, it’s not at all the case that most sannyasins who were with Osho have died. Wherever did you get such an idea?!
Second, Swami R might have had an easier ride among older sannyasins if he’d not become a “clone”, a virtual ‘carbon copy’ of Osho – in appearance, gestures, style of speech etc. – rather than at least appear as an ‘original’.
Those like yourself who have no first-hand experience of Osho probably find that hard to really grasp, but trust me, Osho was/is on a completely different level to Swami Rajneesh, who has failed to impress many ‘old hands’ since he turned up at this site a few weeks ago’.
Then there’s his devaluing of therapy, his virtual rejection of which has alienated many who have benefited from such help in the sannyas movement.
Plus too many flawed responses, or lack of responses, too much disingenuousness, too much conflict in the image of the “humble devotee”, who belies this self-description by cunnung manipulation and orchestrating what amounted to a propaganda or ‘smear’ campaign.
Satya Deva, Either you are stupid at 65 years old and do not wish to read the answers i have put here before or you are blind also. And you seem to be very proud of being an old hand, putting younger newcomers down.
I have written Osho words, on how a disciple becomes similar to a Master and why the gestures appearance style and entire person merges like one, it is imbibing the Master. Imbibing is the greatest miracle of disciple hood and love which you are attacking and ridiculing. How ugly !
What dirt bags are you carrying on your holiday ?
Leave them behind and send to the laundry back home.
I suggest you stop parrotting Rajneesh, mini kang, and/or realise that you’re talking a load of Eastern bollocks, irrelevant and profoundly suspect to the West.
Now Satya Deva want to teach Mini Kang also, and speak anti eastern bollocks.
Bull Shine, Bull Ocks, what is these West words so important ?? He only know these 2 words for everything ??
Must be a profound West wise man at 67 years sannyas.
Funniest two posts of the day, Tarika.
Congratulations!
Thank you Satya Deva,
Maybe i can ask you what meaning of Bull Shine ?? I look English spelling dictionary
but no word, Bull Shine, but only Bull Shit. I am sure you know what it is, so please explain for us Russian fools.
Why not ask Swami Rajneesh, he really goes for pure innocents like you….
Ouch!
You’re far too innocent to be concerned with such things, Tarika.
Now, get back to your devotion!
SatyaDeva,
I just learn you are 65 years old. What a shock as i thought you were 25 or 35 behaving like a reactive sannyasin.
I now read all your comments in a new way,
as now it is very sad that an old sannyasins have become so bitter and frustrated, what happened ??
This question is important for me also, as i do not want to end up old and bitter.
Was the path too difficult or hard and your expectations not met, so you end up bitter and react to anyone who is dancing and celebrating ?
I think you have not read any of Swami Rajneesh beautiful books of his talks around the world.
If you are a real sannyasin who is sincere
then you should read Yo Gotta Groove In,
or Dissolve Into Love, or Go In Go In Gone.
First honestly read what Swami Rajneesh speaks. Then attack him with more information.
That would atleast earn my respect that i suppose
one who is 65 years old sannyasin deserves.
Whether I read a book by Swami Rajneesh or not, the fact remains that his responses re several issues have been unsatisfactory, because they are non-existent!
Neither do I regard his and his people’s attempt at mounting a “smear campaign” via this site with respect. Until he and they finally got the point they wilfully endangered this site’s very existence in a most irresponsible, foolhardy manner.
And why call me “a reactive sannyasin”? Have you gazed at the mirror recently?! You and your lot have exhibited the very quintessence of ‘reactivity’ these last few weeks, jumping on any critical assessment, any honest impression as if the writers were incarnations of the Devil himself!
I’m not about any blind acceptance, any blind ‘following’, and I’m well aware how desperate young people, thirsty for freedom and truth, will jump on anything that promises ‘liberation’, without necessarily being prepared to investigate the person at the centre of it all, the prime mover. Or whether he can really take them where they want to go.
As for your comments regarding my expressed views somehow not matching my age, well, I have just a single word for that:
Bullshine.
The word Bullshine sound very good for you.
Bull shine ??
You are some Bull shine ??
In Russia i only hear word Bull Shit.
You say you are Bull Shit ??
I not understand, please explain wise words.
Yes we Russian all blind, thank you for judge.
mini kang says:
>> I now read all your comments in a new way,
as now it is very sad that an old sannyasins have become so bitter and frustrated, what happened ??
This question is important for me also, as i do not want to end up old and bitter.
It is called giving you energy because he cares. Some others have stopped bothering and walked away rather than wasting their energy on you. Trying to control sannyasins is like herding cats … remember?
Satya Deva, You only keep calling Swami Rajneesh carbon copy and clone and attack him every comment.
Even Rajneesh reply to you and everyone reply you about this, but you angry man. What kind of person like you ?
You think Rajneesh want to impress a 65 year old man ?
We all impress by Rajneesh in Russia, thousands of us young people who are future sannyas, so drop you Ego.
You say you are old hands, so Trust me !
Only you have first hand knowing Osho,
Only you old hands know everything.
Think all young sannyas like fools ??
We are Russian and not like some old hands, like you.
If you attack Rajneesh every comment then we Russian also know how to attack old hand people. We all have live in Russia under communist rule for long, and more Fire and know how to stay Free now from old hands.
Now Trust me, old hands to listen us, and have holiday with friend and enjoy to drop Ego. Good time to you in holiday.
Tarika, don’t you think it’s important to have a balanced view of a man who claims to be Osho’s ‘successor’, the first of a long lineage?
Don’t you think it wise to investigate what he says and see whether it holds water?
And see whether he can actually answer everything that’s put to him?
And examine how he acts in the world when pursuing his aims?
I’m not denying he’s a useful teacher, a source of inspiration to you and many others, ‘beginners’ it would seem. Haven’t you read other comments of mine where I say similar things? Maybe it’s just too much to expect or even to ask, at this stage of your participation, but I suggest you stop and open yourself to the possibility that older, more experienced people than you might just have other perspectives that could help prevent you being as naive and gullible as you appear to be regarding this character and the way he operates.
why do you call people beginners? do you remember osho saying there’s no a-b-c of meditation? there’s just this moment, either you are in it, or gone inside the mind… there are no beginners or experts in meditation… maybe you forgot, but that’s ok…
another thing you are doing is implying that innocent and gullible means stupid… sorry, i would say otherwise… alva edison tried more than 3,000 times to create a lightbulb… you would think how stupid it is to do it again, and again, and again… but innocence moves in mysterious ways… what the innocent person lacks existence will provide, because you are at your most precious state when you are innocent, you become of utmost value… and existence pours so much love and easiness… it finds the key for you…
innocence is great satyadeva, and you shouldn’t judge it as inferior or stupid, even though you can do it, but you cannot hurt the innocent one, he will repeat what jesus said “forgive them, father, for they do not know what they are doing”…
Tarzan had been living celibate alone in his jungle kingdom
for 25 years with only suitably shaped holes in trees for sex.
Jane, a reporter, came to Africa in search of this legendary figure.
One day, deep in the wilds, she came to a clearing
and discovered Tarzan vigorously thrusting himself into a jungle oak.
She watched in awe for awhile.
Finally, overcome by this display of animal passion,
Jane came out in to the open and offered herself to him.
As she reclined on the wild grass, Tarzan became aroused.
He quickly ran over and kicked her in the crotch really hard.
In pain, she screamed, “What the hell did you do that for ?”.
Tarzan replied, “Tarzan always check for squirrels first.”
satyadeva…
enjoy your holidays and remember to check for squirrels first !!!
Hitchiking in Indian Territory
An attractive woman from New York was driving through a remote part of Texas when her car broke down. An Indian on horseback came along and offered her a ride to a nearby town.
She climbed up behind him on the horse and they rode off. The ride was uneventful except that every few minutes the Indian would let out a whoop so loud that it would echo from the surrounding hills.
When they arrived in town, he let her off at the local service station, yelled one final, “Yahoo!” and rode off.
“What did you do to get that Indian so excited?” asked the service station attendant.
“Nothing,” shrugged the woman, “I merely sat behind him on the horse, put my arms around his waist, and held onto his saddle horn so I wouldn’t fall off.”
“Lady,” the attendant said, “Indians ride bareback…”
this joke when told by bhagwan initated the “yahoo” we did every night in buddha hall with him – later it became “osho”
It really hurts male ego to see some men from the tribe becoming someone.
What to do?
Few people are born with leadership qualites or some hunger makes them leaders..
Atleast in Rajneesh’s case, he has created his own brand, fills the vacuum in the market shelves. He has not stolen somebody’s right and space, and new people have all the right to follow him rather than watching spiritual porn!
Instead of blaming rajneesh, let first generation sannyasins blame themselves, the smuggy meditators.
People want to relate, relate with something which inspires them. If it is not Buddha, atleast Buddha’s statue and a Dalai Lama..If it is not Jesus then atleast Cross and a pope..
And what sannyasins have given to the world after Osho’s demise?
Simple thing is if you don’t like copy cats, then market the original in a presentable way..
Shantam Prem,
Funny as i always hear Swami Rajneesh say that the management should make Osho more openly available for everyone, and also present Osho in all multidimensional way.
He was saying that the poona Ashram should be filled with thousands
of seekers. When he came to poona i was there, and i know that Swami Rajneesh loves the Ashram as his own life as is sad to see it has died.
Yes Shantam Prem,
Many old hands sannyas people Ego hurt by Swami Rajneesh.
But Swami Rajneesh only speak about Osho in Russia. He only ask people to read Osho to us. He only say understand Osho to me.
But we Russian know that Rajneesh humble and devotee to Osho so make himself small sannyas only and Osho his big Master. He love Osho so not care what he is. He say he nothing in front of Osho.
Not understand why sannyas people jealous of Rajneesh.
We Russian simple, but also see clear, and also want Free because many freedom not allow here and we have Fire for Osho and Love for Osho and Love for Rajneesh.
I meet many many sannyas teacher and many therapy teach in Russia Moscow everyday, but only feel Rajneesh, true love for Osho
and He is humble and also very Fire. Make us open and feel Free.
Must be awful for you that other people get through life and actually have some kind of sad notion that to come to a different conclusion to you about something is ok.
Must be great to be all wise, and all knowing and be able to see though everybody, even though youv’e never met them.
So we know you know everything about everybody who holds opinions that differ to yours.
Do tell about what you know about yourself, apart from being all wise, all knowing and all seeing.
yes arpana, all views are possible… the trusting loving devotee, the informed seeker, the old disciple, the student, the adversary, the skeptic… all of them will see the buddha differently…
it’s ok to hold opinions against… that’s why we are here, to see what opinions you hold, and the reasons of such adversity towards rajneesh…
only because he’s dangerous to the “hierarchy” in the sannyas movement… the queen wants his head off…
your support of satyadeva’s perspective shows me you need to check your sources and take another look at rajneesh’s work, take one of his books, go beyond the tthought of “he sounds like osho”… and find the jewels… have you read any of his books arpana?
Yes and it reads like a novel to me.
I know self deception when I meet it.
You sound like a fundamentalist Christian. The last time I was spoken to like this was by a fundamentalist Christian.
Just now, i have coined a new word.
i want to introduce it at sannyasnews.
Guru, and sadguru are used for centuries..
who take their work further are called, Purohit or Priests.
With Osho a new catagory is evolving, mixture of past and present..
it is, subguru!
Guru and subguru
Master and submaster…
almost like in company hirachy..
president is one but there can be many vice presidents.
In the subguru catogory, i remember four five names, but won’t write them now.
Satyadeva.
i note it takes 4 of swami rajneeshs disciples, fighting dirty,to try and bring you down,but they are still coming off worse.
and to a neutral,
they come across as considerably less balanced than a bunch of one-legged and blindfolded mental patients in an ass-kicking contest.
these swami raj whackjobs on the one hand,
and a bunch of alcoholic-paedo killer-rapists on the other
are the representatives of oshos vision ?!?!?!?
wtf!?!?
where did it all go wrong?
btw.i am the/an american yogi not a kiwi one.
keep doing the haka,all the same!
also btw. the American Yogi,
Now you and Satya Deva finally have something to celebrate about !
Old is gold, keeping each other company in those desperate nights ??
As you say Rajneesh lovers here :
// come across as considerably less balanced than a bunch of one-legged and blindfolded mental patients in an ass-kicking contest.//
We are still juicy young sannyasins and have not even started to think about one legged blindfolded old mental patients like the 2 of you.
But i feel sad for you both and i hope you both enjoy some holidays. You both old people deserve some rest, the search for truth must have tired your body your nerves under stress of age and mental memory loss.
anand yogi says:
>> wtf!?!?
>> where did it all go wrong?
If you actually remember of any time where it went right … it must have been in a past life. You just gave to stop worrying about it and keep going.
it is unfortunate that so called “ old hands “ sannyasin
have nothing positive to offer
nor the ability to express out of compassion
their wisdom they may have imbibed…
as an inspiration for others to walk the eternal path…
to sarcastically criticize and attack the innocence of newcomers
is ugly barbaric and inhumane behavior !
newcomers are fragile and open…their eyes are fresh…
and their hearts are pure…their beings dancing…
filled with wonder…their search is their dream…
let them live their dream…
let them enjoy their innocence…
remember you too once were on fire
when you were seeking the master…
and your heart was beating for the unknown…
it is a long journey…of aloneness…
deep trust and longing…a thirst has to be created…
inspiration is what a master offers…
sannyasins should inspire…and create the fire…
However much you are understandfably keen to encourage the young, methinks you also tend to sentimentalise and idealise such newcomers, Swami Rajneesh.
Have you actually read many of these people’s posts here? Full of far-from-innocent, lewd, derogatory remarks, with tuition in dishing out the abuse evidently NOT required.
This is another example of how you like to ‘bemd’ the truth to serve your own ends. Unimpressive – again.
Our innocence does not mean that we will accept you attacking our inspiration Swami Rajneesh. If we are fools we will suffer, what are you getting so upset ??
Who is asking you to be the judge, and who is asking you your advise ??
Of coures we are young and innocent, but does that mean we will take your attacks ?? that we should bow to your attacks ??
We are innocent but not ignorant, and can also make you taste your own medicine, we are very sharp young people. So remember we are also have a voice that can be heard if need be to defend ourselves with words.
The problem with the innocent is that they don’t know they are innocent (they think they know it all) and that is why they get hurt.
But I am not worried about any of you guys. You appear to have been round the block a few times.
Russian men very strong….when their is Vodka why they should take Viagra!
Quite ofetn i pray to God, if today is the last day of this life, please don’t bring me back in China or Russia!
BELOVED OSHO,
MY FATHER SAYS THAT YOU CANNOT BE AN ENLIGHTENED PERSON BECAUSE YOU TELL
SO MANY DIRTY JOKES. DO YOU HAVE A JOKE TO TELL MY DAD?
Your father is right. That’s why I have gone beyond enlightenment – now I can tell dirty jokes. Just
because of enlightenment, I am not going to leave telling dirty jokes. But tell your father that to an
enlightened man no joke is dirty. Either it is meaningful or meaningless, but no joke is dirty.
Why have jokes been called dirty? Just small things, but they carry so much past history. Because
man’s body below the belt is dirty. It is a stupid idea, because your whole body functions as a single
unit, it is not divided anywhere. Your blood is circulating continually, twenty-four hours a day. The
blood that was in the brain is now in the feet. In the brain, it was not dirty. In the feet, my God! And
it is the same blood!
Because sex has become condemned by religions, any joke that has any relationship with sex has
become dirty. It is their attitude about sex that makes the joke dirty. Otherwise, ask your father what
is dirty in it. Ask him to pinpoint it.
And the greatest miracle in the world is that your father could give birth to you. Perhaps he has given
birth to many others. He can make love but a joke about love becomes dirty. The action is perfectly
alright, your father doing all kinds of gymnastics is right. Without those gymnastics you would not
be here, but a joke about it is wrong.
What kind of society are we living in? There seems to be no rationality.
A young boy went to the bathroom in the night. He had to pass through his parents’ room and the
boy saw the mother was performing fellatio on the father – look up in the dictionary what fellatio is,
because I will not tell you the meaning – and the boy came out of the room scratching his head and
saying, ”These people sent me to the doctor because I was sucking my thumb!”
And these are the people – in the morning they will be in church, all holy. But an innocent joke will
be condemned as dirty.
Why are so many jokes related to sex? Why have they become dirty? Because sex has
been suppressed and condemned. This condemnation and this continuous repression has made
everything related to sex, dirty. But the whole condemnation is wrong.
And your father must have suppressed his sexual instincts, because in my books, he found only dirty
jokes! He could not find any method of meditation? He could not find something that could give him
more maturity, more integrity, more individuality?
It happened that Dr. Johnson wrote a very exhaustive dictionary of the English language. Of the old
dictionaries, his is the best. The book was published and on the second day – it had just been in the
stores for one day – on the second day, three old women, seventy, seventy-five, eighty, they reached
Johnson’s house and they said, ”So you are the fellow who has written that dirty dictionary!”
He said, ”Dirty? What do you mean by dirty dictionary? Everybody is praising it, saying that it is the
best dictionary!”
The women said, ”Those people don’t know what is inside. There are three words which are dirty!”
A twelve-hundred-page dictionary…. Those three old women did a great search – the whole night it
seems – and they found only three words!
Dr. Johnson said, ”It seems you were looking only for these words. There are thousands of words in
that dictionary, how did you manage to find these three words? Unless you were looking for them,
there is no other possibility.”
But why should a seventy, eighty-year-old woman look for some dirty word, some obscene word?
It gives some kind of satisfaction. Even when old people become unable to experience love in the
biological sense, still the urge is there. But that urge starts expressing itself in condemnation. So you remain holy, pure and you can condemn. But your very interest in it shows something deeper
about your mind.
A joke for your father…especially for your father!
An old man went to a doctor and he said, ”Do something! Give me some injections to make me
sexually powerful.”
The doctor said, ”Pop, how you old are?”
He said, ”I’m only ninety.”
The doctor said, ”Ninety?” He said, ”Okay, let me first examine you. Show me your sexual organs.”
The old man took out his tongue and one finger.
The doctor said, ”What is the matter? This tongue and this finger?”
He said, ”Yes, doctor. These have been my sexual organs for forty years.”
So tell your father that before such a condition comes, enjoy a little!
OshO ~~Sermons in the Stone (chapter 22 -the greatest discovery there is )
What exactly is your point, roxana? My generation has been exposed to these Osho jokes for 40 years!
I understand it might be all very new and ‘liberating’ for you, but it’s actually ‘old hat’ for us.
I guess we have to remember that for a number of countries ‘the 60′s and 70′s’, ie lengthy periods of socio-sexual revolution never really happened, and many were labouring under oppressive regimes. So historically, it’s sort of your and others’ time to ‘catch up’, as it were.
Fair enough, why not?
But given this scenario, there’s so much at stake for you people that you automatically react, unthinkingly, violently even, if what you presently perceive as integral to your ‘inner revolution’ – including but not confined to Swami R – is criticised, put on the spot, or seemingly held up for ridicule. I think you need to acknowledge this touchiness, this ‘reactivity’ about yourselves, as part of your current self-knowledge and accept, if possible, that it might lead you to ignore or reject ideas from elsewhere that might have some truth in them, some validity.
If you can’t or won’t see this then there’s little real possibility of ‘the old and the new’ understanding each other.
(PS: But please don’t try to tell me that Rajneesh’s “fart 69″ story was particularly funny or amusingly appropriate. He made what in England we call a gaff, perhaps trying just a bit too hard to be cutting-edge psycho-spiritually ‘hip’, it would seem).
i havent heard any truth from you so far satyadeva – just painting others with with words like “unthinking and violent” – totally baseless propaganda and far from the truth
Not “propaganda”, DR, as I provide evidence, not hearsay or speculation.