Sannyasnews research dept did a check this afternoon about what Osho had said about euthanasia. Amazingly this was one subject where he had not contradicted himself. He spoke about it a number of times, and the following quote is typical of his views. Contributors need to realise that euthanasia is not “legal” in India or the UK, and most other places on the planet and comments need to be circumspect and will be edited. Whilst Osho clearly had his views, in practice euthanasia is a very difficult matter as who can predict the future, or the future of medical research for example. Also there is a problem of relatives who might benefit from the death of someone encouraging them to think this way. Let us hope for careful and constructive thinking on this matter.
Osho said:
“This is the difference between the scientific attitude towards life and the religious attitude. The scientific attitude is concerned with prolongation — how to prolong life. It is not concerned with significance. So you can find old people in hospitals, particularly in the West, just hanging on. They want to die but the culture won’t allow them. They are fed up with just being alive; they are simply vegetating. There is no significance, no meaning, no poetry, because everything has disappeared, and they are a burden to themselves. They are asking for euthanasia but society does not allow it. Society is so afraid of death that it does not allow death even for people who are ready to die.
The very word ‘death’ is a taboo word, more taboo than sex. Sex has by and by become almost accepted.
Now death also needs a Freud to make it by and by accepted. Now death also needs a Freud to make it
accepted so that it is no longer a taboo and people can talk about it and share their experiences about it.
Then there is no need to hide it and there is no need to force people to live against themselves. In hospitals, in old people’s homes, people are simply hanging on because the society, the culture, the law, won’t allow them to be.”
Osho.
Ancient Music in the Pines
Chapter #8
Chapter title: Three Mysteries
What to say. I know when I will not want to be here any more, and hope I have the strength to exit when the time comes. I don’t like “their system” which is basically, withdraw food and starve to death … what the hell is that all about? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ALL ABOUT???
As far as Osho’s case goes I have made my own peace of mind and unless new evidence surfaces, I am going to stick to that. I know that I will never really know but I love him enough to wish he had what he wanted.
As far as the big E is concerned, it so open to abuse, I am glad I don’t have to make those decisions. I am just a simple joker who would rather be involved in entertainment than making big decisions but if you are my friend and you need to die, I will kill you, and accept the consequences.
There is a deep big E story in the TV series ‘Crash’ (with Dennis Hopper, his last work). He was dying in real life, while Exiting a friend in the film …
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178636/
Jacob Zuma and the doctors are all very happy. But what’s Nelson thinking?
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saa , thanx for sharing this .
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I dont agree with Osho that somehow “medics” have some kind of superior status and judgement in this matter. One is grateful for the work of Ernst Klee, a German journalist whose book “Euthanasia in the Nazi State” (83) exposed the amount that “ordinary” Doctors went along to the extent of examining and signing documents with the Nazi policies for the blatant and widespread “euthansia” of the disabled or mentally ill between 1934 and 1944. Germany was a “civilised” country but easily fell back into barbarity, including the professional classes, when the “boundaries” of being human were removed during the Nazi period. This is not just a lesson for Germany, but for all human beings.
I am against euthanasia as a state adopted policy, it could lead to all sorts of abuses. But for me the main discussion should be about “suicide”. Of course there are a few people who cannot “do it themselves”, like those who are paralysed, but frankly suicide should be the main discussion point.
I have had a few friends who died in “accidents”. One was a fellow student who played football at quite a high level in the UK. One Saturday he told me his girlfriend had left him for another guy, and he was clearly upset. By the following Saturday he had killed himself driving his car alone in a road accident which, as it had involved no-one else I saw as a kind of suicide. My money would be on the suicide stats being much augmented if all the accidents involving people were closely examined.
In spiritual life there are clear cases where mystics have committed what might be called a form of suicide, where other options were available. Mansoor for example could have recanted his claim “to be God” and disappeared from those ever fanatical Muslims who had him torn into four by horses tied to his extremities for his Sufi claims. Jesus clearly courted his own death as there were previous examples of when pursued by a mob, he found ways of “passing over to the other side”.
Socrates basically committed suicide against the very strong wishes of his disciples who remonstrated with him to the bitter end. If he had, as I understand it, accepted exile from Athens he would have been set free.
The “meaning” of one’s own life and death may well become a greater force to those who have become “consciousness” itself, rather than plain survival, and needs must be part of any genuine philosophical enquiry.
I shared a flat with medical students years ago, pre sannyas, and that was part of life’s de-mystification process.
They were as hung up, un-hung up as anybody I knew.
One of the stories around Pythagoras’s death is that he starved himself to death. It doesn’t get any more modern than that, does it?
As you are Greek Vartan, and would therefore know this background better than most I would be interested if you can reference this story or tell it. Thanks.
All we know about Pythagoras came mainly from three authors so we have at least three versions for most of the events in his life.
“The reports of Pythagoras’ death are varied. He is said to have been killed by an angry mob, to have been caught up in a war between the Agrigentum and the Syracusans and killed by the Syracusans, or been burned out of his school in Crotona and then went to Metapontum where he starved himself to death. At least two of the stories include a scene where Pythagoras refuses to trample a crop of bean plants in order to escape, and because of this, he is caught. ”
P wouldn’t eat beans because they looked like fetuses. I wouldn’t put it passed him to starve to death because he had a ‘big thing’ with food. He was supposed to be the first European vegetarian and he expected his students to be so too.
Philosophia Perennis was the second book of Osho I read and it totally blew me away as I was into the Golden Verses at the time. I used to have everything on P but that was a long time ago. My specialty used to be the pre-Socratics … Osho cleared the decks. Using the term “Aristotolites” as a disease had me in stitches.
If you like ‘old stuff’ I recommend De Dea Syria, by Lucian which is the oldest existing account of a functioning temple. Lucian was a ‘good Roman’ going round the edges of the empire and criticizing everything that wasn’t Roman …
De Dea Syria (its’s all here):
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/luc/tsg/
Parmartha , to me living is more easy / less difficult than suicide at this point of my life , infact suicide is not a resort at all for me .
I feel ‘ if ‘ Vivek had not died , Osho would also not have died .
Yes I also realise in life , ifs & buts have no existence at all in real life .
I would think kavita it worthy of thought to consider Osho’s decision to have all his teeth pulled, a few months before he died.
His dentist Devageet did not agree with this decision and refused to do it. But then Osho got some secretary to get a dentist form the town prepared to do it. I think then Devegeet changed his mind, but reluctantly.
For a man whose lifeblood was talking, this pulling of the teeth seems to have little logic as his dentist did not think it necessary.
And as you say there was then the matter of Vivek’s unexpected death which would have had an impact, even on an enlightened man one thinks. She had been his companion since 1972.
Osho may or may not have choosen to die, but there does seem a background to it if one were to take the view he did.
Yes Parmartha , somehow I think it could all be inter related , probably boils down to , he had no will to live , I could be wrong .
so osho our master died an odd and unusual death due to some romeo and juliet drama kavisha?
its more than likely you are wrong isnt it?
perhaps you think osho is a lovesick baby rather than an enlightened master of masters?
such strange ideas only suit amrito and jayesh, a continual campaign of making osho smaller in peoples minds thats been going on since his strange body death -
a campaign making a “no osho master religion” out of the sannyas movement
the latest drip of misinformation about osho is the “lovesick heartbroken old man who wanted to die” mind colouring stick – painting him a fool –
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
as they say in england “my ar*e” !!!!
Well ssd , i see no harm in seeing Osho as a love sick baby , I have heard from his personal guards how he would not want to speak to ‘his people’ when Vivek was not around and btw I do not have a personal connection with Jayesh or Amrito & evidently every englishman is not a gentleman ,
Because of this Socrates has been remembered, Osho shall be remembered in part because of his treatment by the most powerful country in the world
Dignitas!
The name courageous souls all around Europe remember when they want to leave their body in certain unavoidable circumstances.
I appreciate their work and the flexible laws of Switzerland, may be the only country on earth where direct democracy works.
And I am tired to listen, what Osho said, what Osho said about this and that, unless organisations running in His name, dare to stand for those words.
Would that mean in your case Shantam that you’d accept a democratic vote from regular contributors of SN , on your own euthanasia ? A bit like the eurovision song contest where the worst song gets the most votes ?
ok i’m kidding… it’s a joke ok…
I like the eurovision song contest…it’s great for a laugh..
Normally Shantam this would be true. That is why SN made clear in the introduction to this string that Osho never contradicted himself on this matter, though he did on almost everything else!
The invitation here is for commentators to give thoughtful responses to a difficult question, and create their own views, not echo Osho’s. As it happens if you have read my previous entry I dont agree with Osho’s trust of the medical profession at all. In particular I dont trust a lot of western medicine cos it has widespread iatrogenic effects which are widely ignored. I never understood actually when Osho was alive his obvious trust in western medicine – he never for example once praised naturopathy (which his disciple Shyam Singha was a lead exponent of) which I feel has much to recommend itself.
Was wondering if you know
Limits to Medicine: Medical Nemesis .
The Expropriation of Health
Ivan Illich ,
but then I’m sure he coined the word Iatrogenic, (I think. ) so I presume you do????
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Limits-Medicine-Medical-Nemesis-Expropriation/dp/0714529931/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369404726&sr=8-1&keywords=Ivan+Illich.+Medical+Nemesis.
Arpana says:
>> but then I’m sure he coined the word Iatrogenic, (I think. ) so I presume you do????
Iatrogenic means = a doctor related illness
Check the dates on these two little babies below:
Psychiatry divided as mental health ‘bible’ denounced
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23487-psychiatry-divided-as-mental-health-bible-denounced.html
The latest edition of DSM, the influential American dictionary of psychiatry … with some questioning the alleged role of vested interests in diagnosis
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/12/medicine-dsm5-row-does-mental-illness-exist
I once borrowed DSM 4. I thought it was a very good book. I think the idea for DSM 4 and 5, is to have one book in which just about anything that can go wrong in the “mind” is recorded. It is just a reference book. It requires intelligence to use it correctly.
Former DSM Chairman Says The Psychiatric Manual Is Attempting To Turn Eccentricity Into An Illness
http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/05/lets-defy-the-big-pharma-attempt-to-turn-difference-into-illness/
Well probably yes, but in a highly conformist society like America you may not get on if you are eccentric. So if someone goes to a shrink because they are eccentric and wants to get on in the world, perhaps the shrink should help them. These are complex issues, you know.
Deep down I’m and Anglophile and I love the way the British accept eccentrics. For many years I had an eccentric boss who was surrounded by eccentric toffs and life was a hoot. Well, he did put up with me, didn’t he? I see what you mean about America tho, Arpy.
Thanks Arpana. I know and have the book. A great book, and hughly underrated.
Here is an account of Prem’s assisted euthenasia trip, which happened not so long ago. I had been friends with him on and off for 45 years. He was a strange and very private man. I was fond of him, because we went back a long way and shared a few formative experiences with one another. Names and locations have been changed and the account was written by my closest male friend, who I’ve known since I was five years old. Prem was not interested in spirituality or meditation. He put on a brave face when facing death. During the last week of his life he expressed more emotion to me in our conversations than he did in the 45 years I’d known him. It seemed very important to him that I thought about him after he died. I publish this on an open forum because it lets the reader hear of how euthanasia can be for an ordinary human being. That way Prem is remembered.
This is my snapshot of Prem’s end of life scenario; I felt to write this for
myself and any friends of Prem as a goodbye
Firstly this is the letter that Prem gave to his doctor to allow him to avail
himself to euthanasia,
To Whom it may concern
I first became ill in the spring of 2009 and in august of that year I was
diagnosed with a cancerous tumor on my lung.
Over the last two years I have undergone surgery, chemo-therapy and radiation
treatment.
In spite of this; the cancer has progressed and has now lodged in my spine. This
has caused me much pain and discomfort in recent months.
My condition continues to worsen and I can foresee a time when I shall no longer
wish to carry on.
I have discussed this with my doctor, with my close friends and loved ones, and
I firmly believe that when the time comes I be allowed to choose to end my life.
This is a conscious decision and not one I have taken lightly, but it does seem
to me that a life without quality, nor pleasure left in it, accompanied by
constant pain without any prospect of improvement is a life no longer worth
living.
I hope this letter goes some way to explaining my feelings and justifying my
decision.
I genuinely believe I am making the correct decision for me
In my current circumstances
Sincerely
Prem Thorberg
September 2012
Prem was as clear about this decision as he could be. In the last month He
became bedridden and the thought of becoming more and more dependent on care workers to help with washing himself and assistance to shit etc was not something that appealed to him. He’d always been a very independent man.
When Prem had talked to his doctor and made the decision to choose the time of his death he visibly relaxed and what was left of his life he possibly felt was now in his, rather than the illnesse’s control
Prem somehow enjoyed his last days. The friends of his that were in Copenhagen came round most days to sit with him and the nursing staff that cared for him were very kind. Prem was never the most effervescent or open of characters though he managed to show more emotion in the last week than in most of his entire life; he was more appreciative and visibly moved by the attention he was receiving. I don’t think Prem thought too much about the approaching Chasm as it was, I imagine too scary and he just kept to his program of being as comfortable as possible, he enjoyed his TV his joints and the company around. He still had as he would say a “mind like a planet” though he hardly ate and he couldn’t leave his bed, which in the last weeks was in his living room with his radio or TV on most of or all the time.
He still showed a wry ironic sense of humor and when I gave him a round little digestive biscuit as communion with a nomine patris et filius etc he had his eyes closed and his intention was both wishful and comic.
On his last day the doctor was scheduled to be there at six o’clock. The nurse
had come in the morning to put a butterfly in his vein, this did not go easy and she called another nurse, they also could not find a vein and eventually they called an ambulance as it seems the ambulance staff are able to get the needle in, in traumatic cases. Prem said this procedure took about two hours and was very painful and made him feel like calling the whole thing off.
I arrived around 2 o’clock with a double bag of chips and ketchup that he asked me to get for him; he was happy about that, he seemed ravenous and scoffed the lot.
I asked him how he felt, and he didn’t really know what to say; he wasn’t happy about it though he knew dying was inevitable and he didn’t want to drag out his certain demise
Gulp !!
He wanted a strong smoke and I rolled him a spliff which he smoked and made small talk. I was acutely aware of the time passing though what to say. His friend Anandina had come from Ibiza and was there with him also. About 4:30 a care worker arrived and stayed; she had some nappies with her and assisted Prem to put them on It seems that the muscle relaxant that stops the heart releases all the muscles and it would be easier on whoever dealt with Prems’ body that it wouldn’t be too messy
He looked at me and said, ‘It’s come to this.’
I said, ‘yeah Prem full circle mate.’
Dark humour can be helpful in the intensity of the moment
5:00 o’clock Prem switched channels to watch one of his favourite shows, The Benny Hill Show, we all sat and watched it and for me the clock was ticking loudly for whom the bell tolls like being in a death row
cell with the inmate….shit… I asked Prem ‘how’s it going?’ and he said
‘waiting for the governor to hand down the reprieve.’
not much to say.. is there? I was acutely aware of each minute running down,
about 6:15 the doorbell went and it was the doctor, He talked to Prem and
mentioned ‘it’s your decision Prem and if you still want to go ahead let me know when you are ready’
Gulp!!
Prem got teary and silent panic mode (my interpretation) the Doctor asked if he wanted some time with Anandina and he said yes, so the three of us left the room while he talked to Anandina, she said later that Prem said to her he was scared and that is… UNDERSTANDABLE
Anandina came into the kitchen and I asked the Doc if I could talk to him
I sat with him on his bed and said something like ‘Prem you must be one of the 0.001% of people ever existed on this planet that gets to choose your time of departure, and I find that truly courageous,’
I saw his packet of Camels on his table and asked if he wanted a cigarette band he took one and lit it then the doctor came back in. Prem said he was just having one last nail in his coffin and is that ok? Because it doesn’t make much difference now, the doctor agreed, and Prem joked that did the condemned man get to choose a blindfold
he finished his fag and it was time. I asked the doctor if I could give him a hug I held him and said something like ’it’s time to let go of this now Prem, try to relax into the sinking and don’t struggle, fill your heart with the thoughts of who you have loved in this life, and who have loved you; and feel at peace as you go,’ he was crying and saying thanks pal… emotional is the word I felt;
I stepped back and the doc got his two syringes out and placed the first in the tube in Prems arm.
Anandina sat on the bed and held his hand, I stood beside the bed and said again be at peace Prem fill your heart with love and let it all go in peace
The doctor started the injection of Sodium Penthanol two seconds into it with Prem sitting up looking at it as it flowed into him he said ‘ooowww its painful’
the doctor said ‘is it?’
Then Prem had a small convulsion his head went back into the pillow and I could feel he was going deeeep
He gave a few snores and then was still.
It didn’t seem to take longer than between 3 to5 seconds.
The doctor monitored it and said that as he was very weak and had hardly eaten anything in the previous two weeks he is probably gone, though I have to administer a second injection which was a muscle relaxant that would stop
Prem’s’ heart
After about a minute he administered the second injection (Prem I think was already gone)
The doctor then called the coroner and after about half an hour he arrived.
The coroner had been pre-warned and was there to see that all relevant paperwork for assisted suicide was in order and to write the death certificate.
This completed the social worker called a funeral parlour and they said they
would arrive in an hour or so, to pick up the body
The doc, coroner, and social worker left
Anandina and I stayed to await the body snatchers
After an hour they called, they were running late and it would be another hour so before they could come.
We had some tea and waited with Prem’s remains lying in his bed, his face was parchment-coloured and he was dead as a brick
The men in Black arrived and took the body, Prem being full of muscle relaxant they needed to carry him in a sheet, his body was like a bowl of wet spaghetti.
They put him in the hearse and drove off
We closed his door
I had a shower
Bye Prem
Bon Voyage
Amen
Thanks, a moving and thoughtful contribution.
Very Moving. Courage.
Might be Holland.
Except he lives in Ibiza, Alok!
Well chaps and chapesses,
time for a song at this point , a bit like an Irish Wake…
now just sing along… that’s an order..
from the hugely popular Anti War satire of the 1970′s
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Enjoy…
( friendly advice: if you have any depressive or major health issues you play this at your own knowing risk and you should seek appropriate help , even though the program itself was a satire and played as a comedy on serious issues )
since I am so passionate about life and the reverence for life…
and inspite of my messages being deleted earlier…
i will place my balanced view
with no offence to anyone it may allude to !!
let me look at euthanasia clearly from the words of OSHO himself…
that have been presented here in this article to make it sound acceptable
OSHO himself spoke millions of words about everything under the sun…
and this particular matter is taken out of the entire context
and selectively placed without any background reference being elaborated upon
OSHO was very clearly speaking about very old people vegetating and forcibly being kept alive against their will in hospitals in the west !!
now that is a totally different matter being spoken about by OSHO !!!
// So you can find old people in hospitals, particularly in the West, just hanging on. They want to die but the culture won’t allow them.
They are fed up with just being alive; the are simply vegetating. There is no significance, no meaning, no poetry, because everything has disappeared, and they are a burden to themselves. //
i can compassionately relate to and understand an old cripple person dying in hospital like a dead vegetable or is brain dead or coma victims on ventilators or sever body paralysis or last stages of unoperatable tumors or cancers
but does this message of euthanasia fit a person especially an enlightened master who is 56 years of age with no real serious disability ??
then it is suicide and simply not acceptable in this particular context !!
especially regarding the greatest living master OSHO
and his deepest message being “ reverence for life “
and the body being a temple to allow spiritual awakening of the buddha within
OSHO has spoken millions of passages
and always expressed deep reverence for life…
the treasure being life itself…the greatest gift…
life needs to be accepted grateful as a blessing from existence !!!
this is the inspiration living masters offer humanity
and live by such example to inspire seekers
we all hear almost daily about hundreds of normal people in the world
who have had severe road accidents / terrorist attack injuries / bomb blasts victims / 80 % fire burn victims / land mine victims / acid rage attacks / amputated people / where people offer their organs to save another life…
hundreds of normal people who face such horrible horrific tragedies…
and stories of their amazing strength and recovery and positive message
they offer to the world inspite of such tragic circumstances…
these are the real heros who set living examples and inspire humanity
they inspire the world…
these are the people who revere life
and show each one of us the real values of life itself
life is of ultimate value
as no human has so far been able to create life !!
hence no human has the right to take another life
or take the “ sole decision “ to end someones life…
this is where i divide the line clearly !!!
who has made the decision to end someones elses life ??
i cannot find justification or any answer that fits to justify this ugly act…
the medical profession vows
to make every effort to save life in any and every way
that is the oath of a doctor and stands paramount in his life
just look at doctors who sacrifice travelling
to war zones and refugee conflicts…
the real dangers such doctors face to save life…
and one will realize the immensity of the value of life…
a buddha is one who inspires millions of seekers
towards the highest peaks of life
and if we equate OSHO or his death with such acceptable words
then i am sorry i will publicly refuse to call him my master
and cannot be inspired in any way by such a suicidal messages…
buddhas lead their life by living example
and lead us towards light and buddhahood…
not teach death by suicide or poison or despair or euthanasia…
‘Assisted suicide’ is not necessarily wrong, it simply depends on the circumstances, as you yourself point out at the beginning of your post, Swami Rajneesh. Besides, I’d have thought that an enlightened Master would be more than able to take responsibility for his own death, just as he’s taken responsibility for his life; so instead of placing the burden on others why not let him decide whether his physical life has become too painful to endure further?
Is there really any virtue in being forced to endure great pain when there’s no realistic end in sight? To answer ‘yes’ sounds more than a little sadistic to me. Sure, let the doctors give their informed, expert opinions, let them do all they can to help the sufferer, but when ‘push comes to shove’, when it’s clear nothing more can be done, what’s the point in prolonging a physical existence, simply to obey some pre-existing principle?
And it’s not a question of teaching “despair” at all, it’s far less contentiously drama-laden than that; it’s really a simple matter of common sense: where the person concerned is not a ‘vegetable’ or unconscious/in a coma etc., of allowing those that are capable of making a rational, compassionate decision – both patients and doctors – to make one.
wake up satyadeva
by no stretch of imagination…
does an enlightenment master OSHO
fit in the case for euthanasia !
especially his main message being reverence for life
and spiritual upliftment towards enlightenment
and his love for his millions of disciples
would not fit in this ugly euthanasia…
as the final ending of the greatest living master OSHO
How come, Swami Rajneesh? In the purely hypothetical case that it were his will, then why shouldn’t he be responsible for it?
Despite your undoubtedly profound love for him, you seem to have a rather romanticised, sentimental view of Osho – and even ‘enlightenment’ – in this respect. Somehow, the idea that he might have personally preferred euthanasia just doesn’t fit how you’d prefer to view him.
Perhaps it’s your concept that’s mistaken: ie that of a man who knows who he is and what he isn’t, ie that he’s not the body, could allow physical suffering to ‘defeat’ him? Perhaps you find that somehow humiliating?
Would you really have wanted him to end his days in the body in the agony of constant physical pain? Unable to help anyone? A shadow of a man, on the physical level?
And at another level, did he really care as much as you like to think? Perhaps the unacceptable truth for you as a devotee is that at one level, at the end of the day he ‘didn’t give a shit’? (Note, I say “at one level”). (One might even quote his extensive use of nitrous oxide here: What do you make of that, Swami R?).
And btw, you greatly exaggerate by saying “millions of disciples”. Another example of a statement fuelled by over-emotionalism. That seems to be a problem for devotees: at times their emotionalism prevents them from seeing straight. (Just see how your your own supporters/devotees write on here, for example).
So while I accept that I’m most of the time ‘wallowing in the shallows’, having had no ‘realisations’ whatsoever, I’m a ‘spiritual pygmy’, still basically a ‘beginner’, nevertheless whatever life experience I have had gives me the impression that in certain respects you yourself need to “wake up” a bit, Swami R.
perhaps it is you who seems to knows it all…
and i just a blind devotee ??
or a devotee who has a heart ??
or an awakened devotee who has eyes to see…
you are free to judge…
or perhaps i know deeper secrets
that i am not revealing here…
the time will come…soon…
Perhaps you do…Yet enough of your replies here have been flawed to make me doubt your more extreme claims. Especially as when challenged you have often failed to respond.
Ho-hum, I reckon there are very few on this website who will be holding there bated breath in anticipation of any secrets you will be revealing soon, Swami Rajneesh. Such talk simply does not cut the mustard. I think the biggest secret you could reveal right now would be for you to admit that there is nothing special about you or any of the recycled mumbo-jumbo that you are posting here on SN.
yes lokesh
i should stop using recycled words
and perhaps start using your quotes about OSHO !!
you at least have a lot of mustard to sell in your comments…so i will start quoting you from now on…so prepare for your mustard cutting quotes !!! and don’t cry like a baby when the mustard stinks…
They might have been secrets to you but we knew all along. We decided not to talk about them otherwise they wouldn’t be secrets. I suggest you don’t talk about them either. Remember enlightenment is, entering the obvious.
Swami Rajneesh, I’ll give you a writing tip…for free.
It is poor style to use !!! to lend emphasis to your words. I suggest that when you experience the need to use !!! that you return to the sentence and compose it in such a way as to create the desired impact without using !!!.
No need to thank me for this advice as I enjoyed helping you out.
PS, writing vindictive comments like, and I quote, ‘don’t cry like a baby when the mustard stinks’ really does not sound like the words of a man who has reached the highest peaks of human consciousness. I’d drop that kind of language as it is not becoming of a man of your lofty status. (you might cast the wrong impression and people could suspect that you are just pretending to be enlightened) I’m sure it must have been a slip of the tongue. Happens to the best of us.
i call a spade…
a fucking spade !!!
and i use any means
to express !!!
i am not seeking your free advise or your opinions…
so please keep them to yourself…
i have read enough of your opinions about OSHO to see where you belong…
and i have certain standards and grace when i present my masters vision…and how i speak about OSHO…
even my enlightenment is nothing compared
to my love for my beloved master OSHO…
and i will always remain his disciple…at his feet !!!
oh and lokesh..
i forgot to ask you if you have been receiving our daily offerings of 12 coconuts ??
if they do not help you we are again willing to change them to 12 pineapples…
just to just to keep you happy and the pipeline open…
See the last few lines of my previous post, Swami R.
See the last few lines of my previous post, Swami R.
satyadeva
you are directly inferring that OSHO committed euthanasia…
and that it was acceptable in his case
as he is an enlightened man
and capable of sound reasoning ??
Swami Rajneesh, I’m inferring no such thing, I’m speaking in purely hypothetical terms. So please don’t try to assume such a thing.
I believe it’s acceptable for anyone of sound mind – especially an ‘enlightened person’ – to be allowed to terminate their physical existence if it has become too much for them to sustain. As long as such a wish is consonant with the informed views of attending medical people and there is no prospect of improvement.
That seems to me to be compassion in action. Your professed alternative, where suffering must necessarily continue, is, on the other hand, lacking in compassion, even bordering on the sadistic. Yet all under the banner of Love, of “reverence for life”?
Who do you think you’re kidding, Mr Rajneesh?
There’s no virtue in prolonged pain, none whatsoever. If there was, why do you think drugs like morphine and other anaesthetics are used? Or would you prefer to stop them?
satyadeva
i also stated in my main message
// as no human has so far been able to create life !!
hence no human has the right to take another life
or take the “ sole decision “ to end someones life…
this is where i divide the line clearly !!!
who has made the decision to end someones elses life ??
i cannot find justification or any answer that fits to justify this ugly act…//
purely hypothetically speaking…
who was the doctor in question who made the ” sole decision ” ??
was he qualified to take this decision alone ??
was the decision considered in depth…under professional medical mature advise ??
(REST OF POST DELETED FOR LEGAL REASONS – SEE PREVIOUS EDITORIAL POSTS FOR FULL EXPLANATION)
I argue a 3rd position, the 2 of you need to get a better viewpoint of the body-mind’s relationship to existence. We the beings that have been forcibly attached to these body- minds have no input in our decision making process period. We have no input in our body functions. This is the paradoxical illusion. When Osho said “I do nothing” he meant this. The only interaction we have with Existence is to witness and love, and both of those are inactive relationship. “Be a witness”
I know I do nothing, when I am here I perceive boundaries, when I am not here I am without boundaries. Everything that happens in Existence is controlled and generated by Existence. Do you think that you the students teach the school. Thinking that is the problem. Everything that happens within Existence is Existence, so if anyone commits suicide Master or not it is Existence killing Existence, it is Existence making those thoughts, it is existence making those thoughts a physical reality,
Bodhidharma told his disciples to murder all Arhats, can you look at this Existentially and see how absurd it was. Masters say many seemingly stupid things to manipulate their disciples. Let me go further why not decide for yourself and see what Existence will let you do. There is no wrong and there is no right I go further, there is nothing one can do to bring about ones enlightenment. So if one is saying you are enlightened and you are not, Existence is really confusing that person. No meditation, no therapy, no ashram, no master, makes one enlightened, it happens by the grace of Existence.
shivamurti says:
Re: Existence
It sounds to me that you are relinquishing all responsibility to some presumed plan, you call Existence. What I say to say to you is that the human plan is a bit like chess and all, the board, the pieces, and the rules are man-made and have nothing to do with existence. You might say that now chess is part of existence and I say no, because man was not put on this earth to play chess. Chess is a purely man-made construct as so is modern man. Rules of Existence and/or Evolution no longer apply. Rightly or wrongly we have taken these issues into our own hands and that is where responsibility should kick in because our science is currently ahead of our morality.
How do you know all this, with such certainty?
Because there is stress in what we do, which means that at some point we were doing it differently but not only we have forgotten how … even if we remembered we are too far gone in this direction to step back.
We have meddled too much, we live too long, there are too many of us, and we don’t have any answers. That’s why I am certain.
bodhi vartan says:
28 May, 2013 at 3:00 am
Because there is stress in what we do, which means that at some point we were doing it differently but not only we have forgotten how … even if we remembered we are too far gone in this direction to step back.
We have meddled too much, we live too long, there are too many of us, and we don’t have any answers. That’s why I am certain.
Ballocks.
And let me ask one thing:
Does your “reverence for life” extend to condemning abortion?
You will recall, I’m sure, how Osho approved of abortion if the child were unwanted and/or would be born severely handicapped?
abortion is a totally different subject…
the fetus is still not born yet
and consciousness has not yet entered…
there are many issues to consider in abortion cases…
rape…accidental pregnancy…too many children…
deformity…each case has implications…
remember the mother is also deeply connected to the unborn child…has to carry conceive and nurture in her womb for 9 months…
and almost 12 years of her life devoted to the child…
so her decision is also paramount…and vital…
Ok, I can see your point – up to a point…
But what all the above considerations boil down to is quality of life of the future child. So by the same token, why prolong a person’s existence if the quality of their life is irredeemably low, just day after day of pain, of suffering?
And if they’re still of sound mind, why should they not be responsible for their own life and death? Why bother to consult relatives (very Indian of you to say the other day that the mother should be asked what to do!), including husband or wife, and children, or, in the case of some ‘leader’, his or her followers?
What you advocate is prolonged pain, prolonged suffering, so again I ask:
What is the virtue in such suffering?
God is so creative that He never repeats anything. You cannot find another human being in the present, in the past, or in the future, who is going to resemble you exactly. It has never happened. Man is not a mechanism. He is not like Ford cars on an assembly line; you can produce millions alike, exactly alike. Man is a soul, is individual. Imitation is poisonous. Never imitate anybody, otherwise you will be a victim of the first sort of religion, which is not religion at all.
That will be ugly, that will be imitative. Never try to imitate because then you will always be only a carbon copy and never something original.
And you are also prone. Remember that. Anything can become a trigger-point. That’s why I insist — never imitate, never become a carbon copy to anybody. Try to become yourself, try to be yourself. Protect your individuality and don’t get lost in a crowd, don’t become part of the collective mind.
If you imitate you will again and again fall into a ditch because whatsoever you imitate never fits reality. Reality is continuously changing, it is a flux, nothing is ever the same. It is a river; it goes on flowing.
Never try to imitate anybody, never be an imitator; that is suicide. Then you will never be able to enjoy. You will always remain a carbon copy, you will never be the original. And all that happens in life — truth, beauty, good, liberation, meditation, love — happens to the original, never to the carbon copy. Beware — not exactly; that is dangerous. If you simply start following Zorba and start doing things as he is doing them you will get into trouble. That’s how people have done it.
Mr. Rajneesh…can you hear what Osho said or you are totally …yakkk when i see you….yakkkk….yaakkkk…yaakkkk…sorry osho after you we have such fools…we never ever can think how these guys will creat jokers….even your own brother…sorry osho, we are living in world where money is big thing…for money we can sale our own master…yes Osho we sold you…
mr.xyz coward or so called OSHO :
first at least when you criticize me by quoting OSHO
use your real name and show us who you really are yourself !
i hate people like you and i openly admit that i have a personality disorder :
but as you quote OSHO i offer another quote in exchange :
here are some words of the our beloved master OSHO
so read carefully…absorb the message…or else !!
/// Have you observed ? sometimes you come across a couple, a wife and husband. Who look alike. They talk in the same way, they walk in the same way, they smile in the same way. There is a deep affinity. What has happened ? They are not brother and sister, so why are they so alike ? they love each other and they love deeply. When you love someone you are vunerable. The other changes you, and you go on changing the other, by the time life comes to an end, if wife and husband really love each other, they will be almost alike. It has to be so. Love transforms. Naturally, this kind of state is infectious. Seeing me, being here in my presence, looking into my eyes…even watching my hands, you can feel that they are the gestures of a silent man. Slowly, slowly you become infected, contagious; moreover, around a silent man there is a certain energy field created… . A man of silence moves with a certain field of energy around him, and if you are receptive, his vibe starts touching your heart. Have you noticed?
A husband and wife, if they have really been in love, non-possessive, non-jealous - and if they have helped each other to remain individuals and they have deep respect for each other – living a long life, for fifty years together, you will be surprised to know… it is a well-known fact noticed down the ages that they start looking almost the same. Their voices, their eyes, their faces, their gestures… they become so harmonious with each other. Certainly, between a master and disciple the phenomenon is a millionfold greater… In this state of freedom the master and disciple can come closest, and naturally energy flows from the higher to the lower. It is just like water coming from a mountaintop towards the valley. Lao Tzu has actually called his philosophy of life “the watercourse way.” When the master and disciple are so deeply in tune, because they are not in any bondage, both are meeting out of their freedom — and an authentic master never thinks himself higher than the disciple, although the authentic disciple can conceive of the master as higher than anything — energy flows slowly to the depths of your being. Meditation becomes almost a by-product; silence happens on its own accord. Your heart itself starts dancing with the master….
It is enough that you enjoy the song of the master. Your enjoyment will bring you closer. It is enough that you enjoy the dance; it will make you dance. It is enough that you love the celebration, the very idea that life is celebration. And then slowly, slowly there is a melting and a merging. A time comes when it is difficult to find who is the master and who is the disciple. Masters and disciples, if they have lived long enough in tune with each other, become almost alike — without any effort of trying to become alike, because that would be forced and that would be false and that would be hypocrisy. Just dancing together, sitting together, being silent together, a merging is bound to happen.///
How I am so called Osho??? if you can imitete him, why not I can use his name….? why I am cowered and if I am than you are more cowered…?
Osho…sounds funny when you use the name as we do not even know who you are !
everyone knows who that I am the great swami rajneesh and that I have a mental health issue…but who am I really ??
Ok Mr. fraud, who am I…i am Osho as you are his carbon copy…you Mr rajneesh always against Resort manegement why? are you blind or what? some times they are right, or one can be always wrong as they banned old, ugly, pervert Sam, even in that case you are against manegemnet….you know what Sam has done….? I can make you sure If Osho is in body, he will banned Sam for ever….Yes I am also very old sannyasi, spent my whole life around Osho…till this moment I am working for his vision…I never spoke against you but when I see you are supporting ugly Sam, i feel sorry for you…yes I met you many times…i know you very well…slow walker, have seen around resort years…pls dont support Sam…you dont know what he was doing in resort…he is ugly…this old goad should not be allowed any where….HE IS SICK….
if sam is banned…
how about amrito who attempted raping a swedish girl in his room and was covered up ??
how about jayesh brother yogendra who allegedly raped an underage girl and is now evading a police arrest warrant ??
if management would use the same yardstick…i am willing to look again and see the real facts
if you are a brave
and as you claim an old sannyasin
you could always state your real sannyas name here…
my sannyas name given to me by OSHO is swami rajneesh
and what you term slow walker…
is walking with awareness in the state of vipassana…
I suggest, Swami Rajneesh, that you take more care with such allegations, otherwise you’re looking increasingly more like an ambitious politican conducting a propaganda strategy – aka a “smear campaign” – than a self-styled spiritual teacher: presenting your opponents as thoroughly ‘evil’, in the hope that at least some of the shit will stick.
To so confidently declare someone committed rape, without any evidence to back it up, is grossly irresponsible.
Similarly, mentioning Jayesh in order to tarnish him ‘by association’, as it were, when any alleged crime has nothing to do with him.
You like to paint your alleged ‘enemies’ as having no redeeming aspects at all; for you they are all ‘black’, while you and your supporters, in contrast, are the very quintessence of ‘virtue’, all ‘white’. How utterly, almost childishly simplistic.
Such dubious tactics don’t exactly present you yourself in such a good light – in case you didn’t realise how you come across.
Nor do your consistent refusals to respond to arguments where you have been found lacking. Do you want me to list the points in question? I doubt it somehow.
Whatever your ‘realisations’, Swami R, your brief sojourn so far on here has revealed too many negatives, too many flaws to take you as seriously as you take yourself.
well i hope you dont include me in”osho we sold you”
ha ha ha ha ha ha – or rajneesh –
i am confused – whastever do you mean in this out of topic comment in a thread about osho and euthanasia – who is the imitator here – you “osho” or rajneesh or me ? –
well i know rajneesh so i can tell you he is an imitator – this dare i say ignorant slander you have come up with is correct –
osho was getting letters of complaint about rajneesh in the days when he was still in the body – and quite rightly – he is imitating –
oh osho tell him to change his name from rajnish! –
and osho sent message to the whole commune that rajnish should change his name – and spell it with “ee” – ha ha ha ha ha ha –
osho was named rojer at the time
anyway its strange you should bring up this old abusing of rajneesh again – when we are supposed to be talking about euthanasia and osho
perhaps “osho” is tradename for another one who thinks he can quote osho as a stick to beat osho and to swirl around the real topic of this discussion osho and euthanasia –
the suspicion dare i mention it points towards lokesh –
although for legal reasons i have to quickly add that i am in no way commenting directly on oshos body death
About others I cannot say but Rajneesh was in Pune during Osho´s last weeks and most probably on that day of 19th January 1990, when sun did not sat alone. Osho was disappearing with him.
I was 27 years of age. Rajneesh must be 29 or 30. This I am saying for the reason, young people without any vested interests think more truthfully than the others, who wait for the big return on their investment.
We talk about Buddha death approximately 2559 years ago or jesus 2000 years ago in such a way as if CNN correspondent was transmitting Live, The Breaking News!
The event happened just 23 years ago is still surrounding in the mystery. fact and fiction are walking like twins.
So I am curious to know what is Rajneesh´s view, Whether Osho left the body as existence decides its timing or it was
to make Osho free from the burden of the tortured body; the body which has to face the most subtle poison for the slow death.
beloved shantam bhai
i was in poona ashram the entire 12 months till the last days…
each of those days are like it is was today…alive…
each of those days run in my very blood and life…
i cannot reveal what i know…it is too shocking and painful…
i am living with this pain each and everyday…
like a sword over my head…
never speak of me in the past…
OSHO alive herenow…never born never died…
i can only point to one painful clue…
i was awake and knew…the clue to the black magic…
even today tears run down my awakened eyes…
i have promised to speak and reveal what i know…
i owe it to all sannyasins…
and will have to reveal one day…
in a very sensitive and deeply receptive space…
it will happen when i can utter those words…
with great reverence and tears in my eyes…
forgive me till then…
SR, I bet you couldn’t hold the pressure of not speaking. So what I will say is, only speak if the truth will make things better. Other wise why bother? Don’t do it if it is only to make yourself feel relieved. Some know but it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference when you really come down to it. The bird has already flown.
I was with him 3 days before he died, He spoke of his death, he knew it was in three days. He was clear as the first day I met Him
Thank you SM. That is all I need to hear.
shivamurti i hear from samadhi you were a laotsu guard near osho in those days
what did osho say to you about his death three days before he left his body?
did he look sick to you ?
A suicide can announce the day of their death.
it seems to me satyadeva that even if swami rajneesh has a romantic view on his master, your opinion seems to be one of someone who has lost hope in his master, who thinks of him as a lost case or someone who has given up..that is what i get from what you’re saying, that our master was not a lion, but a poor sheep tired of anything..ready to disert his people and his whole life dedicated to the new commune for the new man…if you really believe that our master was tired and was giving up on us than maybe that is just perception… maybe satyadeva you have given up on osho and his people… all his life osho talked about love, courage, openess and yet you still think he would go out the curtain with such a sad, secretive, giving up attitude…
No, roxana, that would be a wrong conclusion. Have you any idea how ill, how much in pain Osho was towards the end of his life? It’s been well enough documented, so perhaps you might investigate and see the evidence for yourself.
Also, have you read Parmartha’s post about how he wanted all his teeth taken out? What do you make of that?
While yes, Osho gave his whole life to humanity, via his people, at another level, perhaps especially towards the end, he most likely didn’t actually ‘give a shit’ and was fully prepared to leave this earthly stage, having done the best he could. After all, he often spoke about how he was ‘just hanging around ‘ his body, there being considerable elements in his being that simply wanted to move on, to dissolve into the universe – including, of course, into his people. Which is apparently where everyone goes when they die: ie inside those who truly love them.
Your saying it was leaving us with “such a sad, secretive, giving-up attitude” is just your judgment, not necessarily the case at all. If you want to believe he would have or should have ‘gone out with a bang’ then that’s down to your own wish for what you would term a ‘perfect ending’. But perhaps life just isn’t always the way you’d ideally want it to be…
He had his time, he did his best – and his influence on the human psyche will be around and be significant for many generations to come, whatever those who believe they are his ‘true disciples’ do or fail to do. He’s a ‘force of Nature’, and as such, unstoppable.
However, whether Swami Rajneesh is the start of some new ‘Osho lineage’, is very much open to question….
Roxana, says, ‘it seems to me’.
Well that is hardly surprising for someone who does not realize that much of what she says is due to mechanical assosiations. ‘I am not a robot!’ declared Roxana quite recently, which only illustrates to me how little she actually knows about herself. The truth is that to begin with all of us are robots. We go around and mechanically react for or against this or that because we have been programmed to do so. The change begins when one starts to see what an automatum one is and a powerful yearning arises to break free of the robot life. The process can take a lifetime.
Roxana is someone who is constantly reacting. I don’t doubt she justifies her reactions by imagining she is following her feelings and believing that is really spirtual, because Osho told her it was, although she missed the part about how the emotions are much trickier than thoughts because they move so quickly. And thus the daily mechanism of self-justiication sets the cogs and gears of her own personal robot world into motion. Robot Roxana will of course deny all this vehemently. This occurs because she doesn’t have a living teacher that she loves and trusts enough to show her the trap she is in. Instead she worships Osho. Unfortunately, Osho is not alive and available to speak to on our earthly plane. Reading his books might help a little and watching his vids, but it won’t be enough to awaken her from her stupour, a drunken sleep so deep that it requires a massive shock to awaken a person from that state. So she will continue to dream about Osho’s love, courage and openess without actually having had an existential experience of what any of that means. Thus the wheel of illusion continues to turn and people dream of enlightenment when in reality they are food for the moon.
thank you lokesh for your reinterpretation of osho quotes and osho quotes on gurdjieff
it looks to me you are looking for patients or in your wildest dreams disciples…telling me im worshipping osho and ünfortunately, osho is not alive”…
what is it lokesh you wanna be my guru? is that what it is? i know im a lotta but i don’t wanna divide the pie .
so i’ll keep on giving my pie to osho who is very much alive and kicking !!!
Roxana enquires, `’what is it lokesh you wanna be my guru?`
Sorry, Roxana, I’m not in the guru business. I’m sure Swami Rajneesh will be willing to help you out.
Since I have just come back to the world I have to ask Lokesh who is your guru, and why do need one? No offense intended.
Roxana, as Loki is not available, can I be your guru? You sound feisty.
lokesh states
// Osho was in essence a peace-loving chap, who liked talking and having quick sex with his female disciples…and ehm, driving Rolls Royces and…er…had expensive taste when it came to watches…and…oops…implemented a plan to have mass sterilizations on his commune, including 14 year-old girls…and ehm…oh, dear…put a neo-fascist in charge of his American commune, whereupon a number of acts were committed that some legal authorities deemed ‘terrorist’ in nature…oh my, this is not looking so good…//
these and several others show lokesh warped mind…
and on the other hand trying to judge roxana as a robot !!!
such ugly ex sannyasins who try to butcher and manipulate young seekers innocence and pronounce judgments…
to try to destroy their self worth and credibility…
lokesh stating :
OSHO implemented mass sterilisation on 14 year old girls in the commune…
i have never read such hog wash and bull shit from any sane person…lokesh tops the list…
Rajneesh is that not what you do “butcher and manipulate young seekers innocence and pronounce judgments”? Did you not pronounce judgement by saying this of lokesh?
Say it Ain’t so !
swami rajneesh says:
>> such ugly ex sannyasins who try to butcher and manipulate young seekers innocence and pronounce judgments… to try to destroy their self worth and credibility…
You don’t get it, do you? Lokesh and PM and Frank (and some othatrs) have been attacking me from the first day I came here and you know what, it made me stronger. You have to develop answers to these issues because you will be confronting them out-there again and again.
It will never cease to amaze me about the diverse types of people that Osho attracted (and attracts) but if he could find the common thread, then so should you. Not everybody is at your level (whatever that might be). But you have to get it that there are other levels and understanding can only come from above, not below.
There are no innocent sannyasins. From the moment a person takes sannyas all responsibility is taken up by the master. And their job from thereon is to be pointing at the moon and not at you swami.
Vartan:
From the moment a person takes sannyas all responsibility is taken up by the master
SD:
This is a questionable statement. At one level, perhaps it does apply to all, I really wouldn’t know.
But at other, less esoteric levels, this is a very dangerous idea, a recipe for irresponsibility, for permanent immaturity.
Surely one of the pre-requisites of any would-be spiritual search – and indeed of any would-be mature adult life – is to be responsible for one’s life, rather than expect always to be ‘looked after’ by some substitute parent figure, which may well only serve to nurture any residual ‘helpless victim’ mentality.
These are the sort of issues that therapy also addresses and until they are, then I suggest that in a significant way, a person can not truly be said to have “taken sannyas”.
So paradoxically, perhaps this “responsibility” of the Master only really kicks in when people are mature enough to stand on their own feet.
bodhi vartan states :
// the moment a person takes sannyas all responsibility is taken up by the master //
so someone taking sannyas should leave all responsibility to the master…poor master !
and even poorer disciple…
a puppet with all strings in the hands of the master in heaven…
hey ya bodhi vartan…OSHO left his body 23 years ago so what happens to all newcomer who takes sannyas these days from your officially accepted moon pointers ??
they also becomes the responsibility
of our heavenly master ??
our father in heaven
and the last day of judgment…
this is how jesus saves his believers…
this is why all believers have placed their responsibility on their heavenly gods…
you are a perfect dodo…
bodhi vartan further “ pronounces ”
// and their job from thereon is to be pointing at the moon and not to you swami //
the new commandment : their “ job thereon “
sounds very serious legal language…
their job thereon is to be pointing at the moon…
now all global sannyasins hear bodhi vartan
and start pointing you finger to the moon…
the new OSHO group therapy…
moon pointing…
another flew over the cuckoos nest !!
It seems you and I agree on this point, Swami Rajneesh.
But perhaps you’d care to comment on the last couple of lines of my recent relevant post (the whole of which I repeat here, for the sake of keeping the issue in context)?
“This is a questionable statement. At one level, perhaps it does apply to all, I really wouldn’t know.
But at other, less esoteric levels, this is a very dangerous idea, a recipe for irresponsibility, for permanent immaturity.
Surely one of the pre-requisites of any would-be spiritual search – and indeed of any would-be mature adult life – is to be responsible for one’s life, rather than expect always to be ‘looked after’ by some substitute parent figure, which may well only serve to nurture any residual ‘helpless victim’ mentality.
These are the sort of issues that therapy also addresses and until they are, then I suggest that in a significant way, a person can not truly be said to have “taken sannyas”.
So paradoxically, perhaps this “responsibility” of the Master only really kicks in when people are mature enough to stand on their own feet.”
swami rajneesh says:
>> hey ya bodhi vartan…OSHO left his body 23 years ago so what happens to all newcomer who takes sannyas these days from your officially accepted moon pointers ??
they also becomes the responsibility
of our heavenly master ??
He left instructions. What do you think happened? Do you think he saw the mess of Rajneeshpuram and left us hanging? The Puna II material offers a direction that will guide seekers for generations to come which you would have found out about if you read it instead of talking.
Osho was way too clever than most people around him. He can have material transmitted without the transmitter understanding the message. True or false?
bodhi vartan
so…OSHO left instructions ??
he left guidelines ??
to whom exactly may i ask ??
the inner circle ??
the 3 inner circle ??
the 21 inner circle ??
or drunkard fanatic amrito ??
and when amrito dies does he pass instructions to next pope ?? and these instructions from OSHO even discuss the internet ?? or what happens in future unforeseen senarios ??
how long until those guidelines and instructions expire ??
200 years or 300 years ??
so far i only see 20 years have passed and if OSHO instructions were to destroy the movement then i see your point !!!
swami rajneesh says:
>> so someone taking sannyas should leave all responsibility to the master…poor master !
and even poorer disciple…
a puppet with all strings in the hands of the master in heaven…
You will very often find me paraphrasing Osho just to see how people react/respond. The banner behind Osho during his early talks categorically stated:
“Surrender to me, and I will transform you. That is my promise – ”
I can give lots of quotations where he takes full responsibility for his people’s transformation. I will never send people to anyone but Osho. And that what pointing to the moon means. Giving people malas with your picture on it indicates a degree of psychopathology. And anyone who wears it …
… and further. I don’t see you wearing an Osho mala but you expect people to walk around with your picture round their necks. Please tell me you don’t see yourself going down some wrong road.
Why don’t you just declare yourself and stop mentioning and looking like Osho because clearly you know more.
bodhi vartan
i was walking on the street of hongkong and one woman suddenly rushed to me and started crying and sobbing on the road…
i asked her what happened and she said that she saw me with my OSHO mala…
and started crying as she had lost her mala and was very upset…that i reminded her of her inner journey…
and begged me to give her my mala and get another in india if i could…
it was the original mala
i got from bhagwan…
i felt sad and touched by her tears and out of sheer compassion offered her my mala spontaneously…
my OSHO mala was my very life…
since i gave my original mala away…it became impossible for me to wear another mala…
without his touch…
so i decided to become the mala myself !!
live each moment his message…
I’m a little robot
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
I’ve lost the will to read
I leave you my quotes…
Please call someone who can help me let go into my bloglessness.
satyadeva you say : “While yes, Osho gave his whole life to humanity, via his people, at another level, perhaps especially towards the end, he most likely didn’t actually ‘give a shit’ and was fully prepared to leave this earthly stage, having done the best he could”
“He had his time, he did his best ..”
aren’t this yet again your conclusions on osho? how can you know what osho did and what his capacity to give is? you say sound so sure of yourself repeating youself that osho did his best..sounding like one of those racing horses…a master is a mistery how can we know his doings and his insights and his volume of giving… and saying “perhaps he didnt give a shit “isnt that again your own story?
you sound like one of his executioners giving him a validity time.. not trusting osho…just tapping him on the shoulder encouriging him to give up cause he did the best he could from your point of view…
Yes, roxana, these are my conclusions (and those of many others, I hear), based on available evidence assessed as objectively as possible – bearing in mind that no one of us out here can possibly know the precise truth of how he was in his later, very private days.
As for “not giving a shit”, well, one of his closest, most respected (though not specially well-known) disciples, a devotee woman who has never, as far as I know, wavered throughout her time with him, who helped to introduce me to Osho way back in the early 70′s, used to say that the ‘bottom line’ about him was precisely that: at a certain level, he didn’t necessarily “care” in the way we’d love him to, or even ‘expect’ him to. And she used the same phrase, “he doesn’t give a shit”.
Perhaps you’d like to believe differently, in some ongoing “mystery” which you think I don’t mind was prematurely ended? The point is that Life doesn’t have to meet our expectations, and whether you find this acceptable or not doesn’t matter. Masters are one with Life…end of story.
I’d say that he “did give a shit” and “didn’t give a shit” at the same time. Like the rest of us. If I were to use words, I’d call it “Serious Play”.
I love what Osho did, how he utilised what nature gave him (his magnetism), the way he cultivated his intelligence through reading, and the way he run his circus. It was never boring and I’d do it all over again tomorrow.
I am going to tell you a story. I’ve been dying (oops) to tell you this story for a while. I’ve only ever met one other person that had the same magnetic eyes as Osho and this person was … Lynne Frederick, a two-bit English actress and last wife of Peter Sellers. When I met her (about half a dozen times) she was divorced from PS and was going out with David Frost. This lady, when she looked at you, it felt that there was no one else in the room. The funny part was that she knew what she was doing to you and was somehow acknowledging it and laughing with you. At the time I spoke to many other people about this and we all agreed that there was something ‘different’ about her eyes and the way they fixated you and looking right through you.
The saddest part of this story is that she committed suicide at the age 39. Obviously she couldn’t live with it, or shall I say, the others couldn’t live with it. I often thought that if she had access to the spiritual realm she could have done a lot with it and herself.
I’ve unsuccessfully tried to find a clip on You Tube that show what I am talking about but if you ever met her, you’d know.
Lynne Frederick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynne_Frederick
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
PS Sorry I thought she divorced Peter Sellers. In fact he died during their marriage.
I saw the video and thought there was something evil in her face if you looked with care.
Roxana
I can understand what he says.
I love my lover
And I can walk off into the wilderness
Osho was the man who enabled Parmartha to fulfil his dream of moderating other people’s thoughts via the use of the words
Osho,
awareness, and
clean bowled,
every page of his life , fot a total count 849 billion mentions of the word Osho thus far. If that isn’t valuable as a way of working through one’s Karma, then you haven’t seen his little prayer wheel with OSHO printed , on it, which doubles up as a portable fan in the summer.
Wait a minute is that him singing outside on the vegetable patch….
‘Closer my God to theee’,
mmm, It might be…
‘Oshowwwwww’
er yes it is
yes that is the end of your story satyadeva..you have it all figured out ..no mystery no mastery…
if you want to listen to some other disciples that were close to him and just because of that their opinion must be true that is your choice..if you want to think all is over again your choice..but don’t put it on osho don’t think just because your story has ended his mistery isn’t alive..you can not really know for sure can you? unless you know all and then what?…
‘Roxana is someone who is constantly reacting.’
I wonder that she doesn’t tire of playing pinball wizard. Then again, once in awhile she probaly gets a free ball and her brain circuits light up and she imagines she is having a satori. Fizzle…squizzle…dizzle..pop!
yes and just like you youself put it in one of your quotes “I disagree with a fair amount of what Osho said.” only i change the name osho with lokesh..and that’s the closest you’ll ever get to being compared to a master
Do you read all the posts, roxana? You seem to have missed one of mine today where I maintain that Osho and his work will resonate down the ages in the human psyche, whatever the authenticity or otherwise of self-styled ‘true disciples’. A Master is one with Life and Life has its ways…
So check your sources before opening mouth, ok?!
im sorry lol check my sources before i open my mouth?! all of the sudden we are journalists here that are really serious and check sources … well i checked your source and it stinks of bullshit…and also dear satyadeva i open my mouth whenever i like to ok heilsatyadeva?
and it is a little drastic to draw conclusion that osho commit euthanasia just because somebody thinks osho didnt give a shit .. you alone say he was very private and people could never know the truth..
Don’t be so presumptuous, roxana. This thread is about the principle of euthanasia, the arguments for and against, not about any single hypothetical case.
ok satyedeva now to give you some attention so you don’t get desperate again
well how about that?! in your previous posts you keep on talking on how you understand if osho wants euthanasia since “he doesn’t give a fuck”and he was in such pain although you weren’t there to know the truth, you just heard from some sources..
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well lokosehji you should’ve open up to us and tell us that your secret dream is to be a therapislashguru!! you got the guts to talk about sleeping robots?! maybe you need a refresh just to know where you’re standing and why i wouldn’t send for your psychoanalisis not even a dead squirell :
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‘‘Roxana is someone who is constantly reacting.’
Roxana, why do you insist on prooving me right on this matter? This is getting embarassing. Relax.
yes it is emberassing for you lokesh ; again you are prooving to everybody that you are not more than al old fossil who once used to call himself sannyasin even though all your quotes of osho stink of the low class you like to spread with every comment … i am very relaxed lokesh knowing that i don’t need say anything .. your quotes and comments talk for themselves..you can say anything you want about me, truth is i still got time..you such an old dog , hard to teach you new tricks when you have become a trick yourself..now kiss my metal ass
Lokesh and Satya Deva, It is good you lock your horn with Roxana or Dhyanraj, and Rajneesh, you should give him some credit that he discuss with you guys.
He has got everything what others are dreaming or saying grapes are sour!
Lock horns! Dear Shantam, I do believe that once again you are exaggerating. Lock horns means to argue with someone in a very determined way. I’ll leave that to SD. He has the patience for it I don’t.
SN is for me enlightentainment. If I find myself getting serious about something written on SN I drop it. I do not take Rox, DR, or SR in the least bit seriously. I doubt that they are the type of people that I would become friends with, but I am quite sure that they are at heart peace-loving folk, who like to sit in front of the telly at night watching Osho vids, or The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, or maybe even Chucky when they are bored with doing Dynamic Meditation. Normal people, one might say…getting on with their lives and all that.
well we already know lokesh that you never take anything seriously not even osho (or thats your excuse for talking so low about him)
..i just wonder how come you dont apply that on yourself also? to me it seems that most of the jokes are on others including me, dhyanraj, rajneesh and osho ..but never one joke on you .. not to mention i’ve made a joke especially for you and you’re taking it seriously since you don’t want to post it:
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My guru, Gandhooji, has told me it is time to move into silence for some time, which will probably come as a relief to SR and Rox.
Roxana, I’ll point out one simple thing to you before I enter my period of silence.
Osho often repeated that belief and doubt are two aspects of the same coin, something which he was absolutely right about. Osho said this many times and I think he did that because he wanted people to understand something very fundamental about ourselves and the way we operate.
I’ve written many things on this website about Osho. Some of my comments can easily be interpreted in a negative way and others in a positive way. I write what I do in order to keep a balanced picture of what kind of a man I perceived Osho to be, which includes some of his ghastly mistakes and his brilliance. Roxana, you wish to tar me with the brush that says I say only negative things about Osho because of your belief system. You want to paint me as a ‘baddie’ so you trawl through my comments looking for things to back up your belief system. During this process you completely disregard all of the positive comments that I’ve posted about Osho. To most of the regulars on SN I am stating the obvious. I’m writing this to you because you obviously don’t get it.
Your pal, Swami Rajneesh, is doing exactly the same thing. He has just taken something I have said about the steralization `programme that Osho implemented in the ashram during the seventies and cried foul. I was there at the time and on reflection I see that steralization programme as pure madness. Hundreds of women and men were steralized and for most of the women that steralization was irreversible. I worked in the commune’s group department during that time and witnessed what was going on first hand. People like Diksha, zen mistress of the kitchen, pushed young men and women to get steralized. If you did not do it you were made to feel ‘unsurrendered’ ie guilty about it.
During those times life was so intense that the steralization trip was seen as par for the course. Some years back there was a gathering of older sannyasins from those times. Diksha had the guts to stand up and make a public apology for any harm she may have done due to so enthusiastically following Osho’s instructions. I suspect Swami Rajneesh may have tampered with my words a little, maybe not, I can’t be bothered trawling through my comments to proove myself right like you guys. His conclusion is, and I quote: ‘i have never read such hog wash and bull shit from any sane person’. The whole point about me explaining this is that I am reporting on events that actually took place. I’m not making this up. Of course, Swami Rajneesh is, for one reason or another, living in denial about certain aspects of Osho’s extremely controversial life. I, on the other hand, maintain a warts an’ all vison of who and what Osho was. I don’t have a problem with that. You guys obviously do.
Osho was no saint and made some major blunders. I can relate to that wholeheartedly because I am no saint either and I made some big mistakes in my life also. My only hope is that I have learned from my mistakes and therefore will have no need of repeating them.
Adios for now. Silence beckons.
Lokesh,
Viva la vida y el loco-ismo del amor brujho…..
Have a greatastico summer… see ya sometime… qui lo se ? puedearce ?
Cheers fer now , aye
M
Food for the Moon. Love the expression. Does that mean someone is a cheesehead ?
I was there during the sterilizations as well, a swami I was friends with decided to do it, I asked why, He said it would get him a food pass. I said ” Man do not do this” He did. He testicles became infected and he had to go back to England to recover.
I was asked, I said I would meet them halfway, the Ma asked me what I meant, I told her I would cum in her mouth
It is always good to take a break from the routine , Lokesh .
Rajneesh , I sincerely feel that the essence on this site are contributors Martyn , Frank & Lokesh & their contributions even though may seem harsh to young seekers , they are not less than any Zen master , SN is also a mystery school , just had to share this , there have been many remarkable women & men in my life , you are also one them & so are M , F & L . love
This is just sucking up to people you are afraid of.
They will look down on you even more, despise you for your sycophancy.
afraid of what Arpana ?
seems you edited your comment after I replied Arpana .
anyway could you shed some light on my fear which is visible to you & what is it that I shall gain from these persons by being a sycophant ? in fact haven’t I exposed myself all the more , after writing the comment ?
actually seems i ended my summer break on sn abruptly , need to continue with it , once again , au revoir .
beloved kavita
lokesh martyn and frank zen masters ??
well read their contributions statements about our beloved master OSHO
which i feel is utter gutter !!
essence of this site…
is the messages of compassion
and grace of our master OSHO
and a space for sannyasins to express their love for their master
and expression of their findings on their inner search…
not to be bullied and attacked for their innocence…
i have read their constant abuses against me and several newcomers…
and to remain silent is to accept abuse and make them bolder…
they were having a field day…
it was time to call it a day…end abuse
when the rat is away the mice are at play
a zen master acts out of compassion
to make one move higher…
lift them upwards…towards freedom…
not to bring down
people to try and crush them
Yes dear , that is why I said ‘not less than any Zen master ‘ , I have also been on SN since 5 years or so & also been ridiculed & what not by them , still I do give them credit for their insights , through them I have got to see some new perspective , I only speak for myself .
& Yes of course each of us have the right to express ourselves and so I guess such things shall always arise, gentlemanliness is a rarity in this world .
If only we all went down the pub we could sort this out matey like,
Here look ,Parmartha and Dharmen and the ‘ life is a mystery’ third man (no not the one from the famous secret agent film ) are buying the first round..
Of course, I support the pub in its philosophy but as a fully fledged extremist mad as a hatter veggy ,the menu though attractive leaves one Pythagorically and sadly bereft..though entertaining, oh well…its only a link ..
http://www.thefoulmouthedcount.com/
judge for yourselves.. or should that be make a non judgemental request for a large shandy, two packets of plain crisps.. three lagers, or was that four, half a guinness. hello roxy… wahayy…three packets of che..hey lokesh, que pasa…so thats four shandies, a packet of quotes, two lookalikes.. sorry wahayy its Dhyanraj .. oops he doesn’t drink .. he’s a non alcohaha hahalic. and who is that wanting to go soon soon, oh never mind he seems very happy looking in the the pub mirror…, three packets of.. wahayy look out its Arpanalager… fresh from the legal unio mystica at the town hall, congrats and a erm big up…, BeeVee.. Ti ora fevyi to lefthoriou ya ton Meditatikos Centeros…Avrio Avrio ?.. some retsina.. alcohol is free .. eh eurovision geddit…what a load of balalaikas….. okay… yes ..
Parmartha .. don’t leave yet.. they’re just making up the bill…. Dharmen….. did Osho mention going beyond programming.. what did he mean.. windows or open source gru’s…er gnu’s
It is rather marvellous .. in fact its a dropdead gorgeous post sex, pre death meditators meeting…next week we’re meeting at the Willy and Testament…
The sannyas family is like any other family, mostly made up of people that don’t like each other. Sorry guys but you can’t pick your family. If you don’t like it, you can run away and take potshots from a distance, or not.
Suddenly I have start read Sannyas News, as we heard in Russia that Swami Rajneesh had a heart attack and news was put here.
I read last many 20/30 Articles and see people are talking like dead Zombie
and not like sannyasin, most ones who say they are old sannyas.
Also these dead Zombie fear fire people and attack Swami Rajneesh everywhere, out of some fear and scare that they are failed sannyas and now old to die.These old sannyas are looking for someone to give attention to them.
When I was in Russia we have group of 350 friends who do Reiki Master.
Beginning all us against Osho, we hear many things in Russia against Cult.
When Rajneesh come to Russia my boyfriend force me his Meditation camp to see Rajneesh in 2007. I was shocked by meet him, and see so much fire and explosion energy when he dance with everyone.
The roof take off, and people all feel big strong charge coming when he dance. Like fire fire fire, but also soft and touch our heart.
After that I start read Osho as he ask me to read Osho as much as can. Also ask his friends to give us all free Osho books for read to all our group.
Then I speak to friends and all start read Osho and now all friend take Sannyas from Rajneesh. We also start meeting many Therapy people from Poona and Italy come to Moscow. I have done many Therapy in Moscow now to test, but all no use. Only charge big big money and promise they know Osho and have special teaching of Therapy Osho. But no Fire or any feeling, only boring teaching like to us is come child in school.
Never any of my friend feel any Fire or any meditation in Moscow Therapy.
We only remember Rajneesh camps and never forget his message to us.
I also go to Poona but only business and sex wanted so very bad to go there.
Also many Russian now go to Resort after meet Rajneesh, but no more now.
I write to Rajneesh about many men come for sex but not interest in meditation or Truth. Only want sex sex sex and fun and drinking in multi therapy bar place.I can easy get many sex and vodka in Russia why to go to Poona ?
I am very disappoint and sad with Osho books as I see it is all lie in Poona.
Osho books are just talking with no real.
We all friends now only read Swami Rajneesh books. We feel that he is real disciple and inspire us to move in our selves only. He say his love is only Osho and his life is only Osho. He never take money or ask anything in camp. I also know he sleep in cheap room to save camp organizer money. He travel by train to save us money. He never ask anything and eat simple food with everyone.
I respect him and all friend trust him and can give our life for him anytime, and also my all friends say same about Rajneesh. Russia is Rajneesh now.
When he give Sannyas he never take money for Osho mala and say it is only present from Osho for us. I know he spend his own money for Osho mala gift.
I say all this because I see many people who come to Russia like Veetmano, Italy Therapist people and Ma Joyti all political reason to attack Rajneesh, and afraid that to many Russian love him so much.
Also see old people here Sannyas News, look like they never meet Rajneesh and only talking to make look good and clever.
People say Russian are stupid and do not know anything. They are just fool, but real Russian is Free Spirit young people and Fire people. We all know what is real Truth and maybe we simple but we know that we are True people and can feel real Fire and someone who has Truth easy.
I feel Swami Rajneesh books make my life very Trust again and Trust in Osho again, as I see Rajneesh also true Master. Otherwise I say Osho has fail and no sannyas one is real, so that mean Osho fail.
My friends say read Osho is sad as no one become enlightenment., but now we feel stronger to see Rajneesh is Master and sannyas. He is simple and easy man. We all Love him, He understand every comman sannyas who he meet, and talk to us easy and guide me easy as he know how difficult to look for Master and Truth with only cheaters everywhere.
May say to you all to first meet Rajneesh and then talk, what you know.
Or read his many book with heart and feel his love and real sannyas.
Thank you for read my letter here today.
I have never met Swami Rajneesh, He wrote some nice poetry, and he pushed a law suit and won!
Tarika, We understand the dynamics of your relationship with Swami Rajneesh. But “old sannyasins” relationship was with Osho.
And I would like to quote Mark Twain. ” It is easier to fool the Ignorant than to convince the Ignorant they have been fooled”
I just hope your understanding of the English language is better than your writing if only because I really hope you understand what SR is saying, or you might be going along with the energy, which is also ok.
>> as I see Rajneesh also true Master. Otherwise I say Osho has fail and no sannyas one is real, so that mean Osho fail.
The only benefit that SR can be to the movement is that he might unite the rest against him. Hey kaboom!!! And the main reason is, because he creates people that talk like you PT. You came here to defend … did he need defending, or what is your need to defend? Is that what he is creating, defenders?
Osho is too complex for SR to fathom. If Russians need to understand Osho, they should read Dostoevsky, and not SR.
Bodhi Vartan, Is my english writing so important ?
I am from Russia, so do you write russian ?? I try best to write english.
I speak about Rajneesh as i know what i have seen him, heard him and felt also. There are so many things I have seen with him and about his camps in Russia, that I am speaking so you what is facts.
In one poor organizer place Swami Rajneesh do not take hotel or guest house, and sleep in biscit tinn, so organizer have not to pay ny money. His people all sleep on floor in cold country. This save many people as Rajneesh wants no charge for his work.
He allow everyone to come, even if organizer say wrong person, Rajneesh say it is ok allow and good person to change. He say doctor always accept any sick !
I see one drunk mad Russian come to shout at Rajneesh and Rajneesh smile and say it is ok to shout. Then the drunk Russian come to attack and Rajneesh again allow and say ok you come close. But when dunk person come close, he stop and start crying. He stop drinking now and also start meditating Osho, and no one can speak against Rajneesh to him now, as he know and fight for Rajneesh now.
I remember one sannyas get Osho mala from Rajneesh sannyas, and next day come and get angry with Rajneesh, throw mala on floor, 150 people watch shock.
Rajneesh smile and start clapping and very happy, so we all more shocked, why ? And Rajneesh say, very good, a real Lion need no mala, and your Rebel Spirit is the real Osho mala. Rajneesh very happy and we all cry and dance for the Rebel. Now this sannyas is become closest and everyone remember this beautiful day.
Osho Therapy people only want to go to Moscow because many people and many money easy. All come to Moscow for big easy money and girls. Only to big city for many money business and people.
Rajneesh go special Siberia because he go for only 10 people, as Rajneesh say it is not number people but Spirit and Fire and love of the invitation only.
He spend his money to go all far way to Siberia and when he come then more than 80 people join camp, and now we have more than 200 Siberian Tigers for Rajneesh here.
In Siberia and Baikul very very froze cold, and everyone wear 2 sweater and many clothes for meditation camp.
Rajneesh walk in slipper and just wear simple loongi cotton and chest open, smiling and dancing.
He sit by river 2 hours in cold winter in deep meditation teaching us nadabrahma meditation. We all shock as we shiver cold and he smile and very warm. When we ask how he can be without any clothes when we are dying with cold, and remember we are Russian and live in Siberia and know what is cold !
Rajneesh answer, that one can watch the breath, so just relax breath and body will start Fire and become warm. We all try and see it is True.
A Russian friend also very want to travel to Ukraine, one month camp in many cities travel together. He have no money so Rajneesh give money for the friend as he is very interest in Osho meditation and say that he must get the chance. See his humble and kindness even enlightenment.
I ask Rajneesh what is enlightenment special ?
He say that enlightenment is very ordinary humble path, not make big noise fuss, just be simple human, silent and listen to inner Master, and everyone has inner Master if they see inside and accept ourselves.
When Rajneesh speak about Osho we all feel his love for Osho deeply, and how soft and grace he speak about Osho, say that he is nobody, just his master Osho is all, and everything is because of Osho.
I never see any arrogant or ego, but so soft kind and compassion for everyone.
I can tell fact hundred story about what he do in Russia. Because it is not only we know energy, but also do all meditation and know it is true what he teach.
And we see Rajneesh every example he set in his life, and Russian very intelligent now days.
We have suffer many years of communist and do not like someone control us, but respect and understand our Fire and Russian Freedom Spirit.
Rajneesh is not small man here, and when Russian support someone we know he is Lion.
I know when ashram start thousand of Russian with him, and we can create big big Fire, now time is ready for Russia and Rajneesh is our Rasputin.
Thanks all for read my letter today.
>> time is ready for Russia and Rajneesh is our Rasputin.
Be careful of what you ask because you might get it. Rasputin was a manipulative old goat that came to no good end.
Apart from seeing you guys come here and scare the intelligentsia off, what are you actually creating?
Bodhi Vartan,
Did you read the whole letter or only want to read last line ??
If intelligentsia get scared that is very good signal that Mind people are scared of Fire and Heart people. Thank you, for compliment.
What is the intelligentsia also actually creating ? Nothing, only negative talking only, to show we all Russian are wrong, to accept Rajneesh.
Rajneesh is creating new free ashram and we all support him very much. When free ashram is ready you will know what we are creating. Intelligentsia are only talking to show know everything and big big mental Ego.
I always read everything and just quote the line I want to comment on. It might come as surprise to you because in the far off distance, one of the steps will be to also love your mind. It might not be the mind you left school with, or the mind you carry now, but it will be a mind that you don’t have to run away from.
The intelligentsia departed because they simply got bored and nothing to do with the attack of the hearts. They would rather have interesting fictions than boring fantasies. Do you know the difference?
bodhi vartan
it seems prem tarika was expressing out of her heart…
and the so called intelligentsia…
attacking from their minds !!!
are you doing head stand while reading ??
are franky martin lokesh
the brilliant intelligentsia you are speaking about ??
then you should become a joke writer here…
One day fire becomes wisdom.
O! for a muse of fire, that would
ascend the brightest heaven of
invention.
William Shakespeare
Well Tarika i loved to read your personal experiences and we are waiting for the russian invasion here in Mexico!I hope i can handle it hehe..
It is a common scene, specially in long distance trains, people who start the journey look fresh and inspired compared to the people who have already covered much of the distance.
It is also a common fact, noise of the coin is stronger than the note fallen
or money speaks wealth whispers!
Thanks to Russia, left over of Pune and europe can be recycled as Hot cakes!
For me the most difficult issue is to understand why people who have been the closest to Osho and/or the longest time with Osho cannot resolve their fight ( including oif, uta, indian sanyasins etc)..it feels like is there really anything in meditation if all these experienced people are worse than anybody else.. That is so sad
To be honest, None has matured enough. One has to be free from tension not have tension. It is always like this after a master dies,
500 years from now people will say He wrote 376 books AMAZING
Even God cannot bring wise men on discussion table.
There are brave hearts who piss in their trouser when boss calls them yet are courageous enough to say, ” There is no God”.
Try reading this.
About the right level for you.
Maybe if you are diligent you will be capable of getting something out of an Osho discourse in a hundred lives.
The Osho Rajneesh windbag will be really pissed of when he finds out you think you are all wise and all knowing like what he is.
Arpana
I do not understand who you refer to in this; The Osho Rajneesh windbag will be really pissed of when he finds out you think you are all wise and all knowing like what he is.
OSHO? He is dead beyond getting pissed off, He might Laugh, it is great entertainment to see a false teacher expose himself. But even a false teacher might help someone become enlightened
I’m not referring to the Osho who we knew as Bhagwan old chap.
Last sentence. I agree with you.
No harm in taking the piss out of him though. If he is what he claims to be he wont care, and if not, he’ll have a hissy fit.,
Arpana says:
>> .. and if not, he’ll have a hissy fit.,
and throw the toys out of his pram.
Notes of a Golden Childhood.
Osho before he was 21.
Portrays himself as aggressive, confrontational,
argumentative, bombastic, wilful, a know all, arrogant and always
determined to have the last word.
just give osho another kick on his dead body arpana – amrito loves that – and you are welcome in the no osho master cult of doctor doom
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My life revolves around Osho and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
Arpana,
Thanks to your link on Illich , I was reminded of his name and work which I hadn’t read since being a teen.Those guys were very formative in my own very early libertarian confrontations with the monster of social conformity and violation. Although the concepts are easily grasped, they are less easily lived and even less easily unmasked in ordinary society. Maybe one day I’ll write about my experiences on the de-schooled society and all points east, even as recently as Budapest and how poorly served, authentic learning is there and elsewhere.
Yeah.
De schooling society as well, which lead me on to Pedagogy of the Oppressed. (Paulo Friere. ) and that wonderful method for teaching adults in South America to read based on their own lives.
And after 21?
Well, recycling might be it: we are do deep in shit that ollu way out is to be reborn.. The born of new life is is rottening shit for fact..
Sorry, i am writting from the phone with am other spelling programme..
It’s enough to say we really are in deep shit:)
It’s so true what tarika says; 350 people would be hungy for osho, but what is left ” theraphy, sex and money..” and angry old sanyasins saying it’s the other,who is wrong, not me, i am right. Who were with osho for 40 years, meditating every day..It’s just really ugly scene. So what if they get people participate in theraphy groups if you cannot live sanyas life without groups ( even for free) What is the point?
I’m gone too… thanks to all old friends, online friends, new friends I haven’t met yet, and ones who have been there together in the unio mystiquer…
To wonderful, independent, dispersed, unified, enchanted loveliness and lived
Osho,
to all the Oshoness inside and to that great space we call life…
Ciao …for now… xxisses
m
never mind the gap.. just sing….
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prem martyn says:
>> I’m gone too…
You lightweights …
Are you gonna let these newbies kick you of your old people’s home.
http://images.wikia.com/harryhill/images/0/0f/Fight.jpg
*My life revolves around Krishna and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
*My life revolves around Buddha and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
*My life revolves around Jesus and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
*My life revolves around Nanak and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
*My life revolves around Ramana and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
Arpana says-
My life revolves around Osho and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
I wonder, what one gets by saying such things and how one enriches the life by saying such things.
Everyday in every way I am getting better and better
No Offense
Is that aimed at me?
Just so I can decide if I’m gonna be offended or not.
Welcome Shivamurti.
Hope you stick around
No Arpana
The repetition that preceded your comment reminded me of a mantra from a self help of the 60′s
“No offense” was for you, because I meant none to you, and you caught that. So lets be friends. I saw your Red headed friend on facebook, I met her in Tapoban, we never really talked.
Osho is still alive, a lot of your difficulty here with people is them. They are in to much of a hurry to ridicule. Let them try a foreign language
lets be friends
If you were in tune with Osho, had any self understanding and had explored meditation, you wouldn’t need to ask such a question.
Arpana says-
>> My life revolves around Osho and he isnt dead to me, no matter what you and others say. He is as alive to me as he was at the beginning.
shantam prem says:
>> I wonder, what one gets by saying such things and how one enriches the life by saying such things.
Since I’ve been back six months ago I am pre-occupied more and more with Osho stuff, whether I am writing articles, meeting people, old friends, making new friends. Looking forward to things coming, creating stuff, learning new skills, talking to you lot. Is Osho still alive? Those are stupid words … you see, I’ve been playing a game. The game was, is, let’s pretend I never met Osho and I had to learn about him through his “works” the same as any other teacher I’ve ever had. It offers a different and longer perspective. He is not alive but he is in my thoughts a lot of the time. I am learning more from him now (especially about zen/sannyas) than ever before.
“LIVE WITHOUT HOPE” OSHO
When I first read that I didn’t get it, it was beyond me, I was still attached.
Even after I was unattached I still did not like these 3 words.
Bhuddism.
Avoid hope and fear, or optimism and pessimism if you will.
I hear you, you in Mexico?
Give Samadhi A hug for me
Lokesh is gone, Martyn too. I think I leave the sannyas café too for a while, at least till the next article!
Pope Ratzinger retires and goes into silence
Gandhooji Guru retreats Lokesh into silence
Marty is gone, like Go In Go In Gone
Frank is Yo Gotta Groove In with his Shemales
Zero grapes are out of season.
Stop Drop dead, Run for cover, the Clones have taken over
Er, not quite, DR…
Amusing post though (never dreamed you could be so witty).
One daily life Sutra-
When religious mob is there; get lynched or run for the safety.
Shantam, finally you took the positive action and now you are really sharing on all osho internet pages..very good
Thanks Fresch, after reading your post, i thought how come i am on many Osho related web pages. It took me few seconds to think, it can be at oshonews, as casually i had send one letter to them about yellow journalism about Osho.
Surprisingly, letter has been given as an article shape.
shantam Prem says:
>> Surprisingly, letter has been given as an article shape.
That’s really cool. I’ve also seen at least 3 Indian TV programs (on You Tube) who are talking about ‘the Sheela book’ subject but I don’t know what they are saying as they are in Hindi. I wish somebody would put English subs. I don’t expect any official press to be positive towards Osho but very few (these days) trust the traditional press. Generally if the press is against something you don’t know about, then it’s worth looking into further. I personally have found lots of interesting subjects that way.
If Moses comes back, I don´t think he will give you the same ten commandments ? he cannot. After three thousand years, how can he give you the same commandments? He will have to invent something new.
Osho
If OSHO comes back???
Do Mr. Chairman thinks, it will be the same guidelines; if doubtfully there were any.
“Be a Light unto thyself”, Shantam.
Be a light unto yourself..
Sounds like public announcement at New Delhi railway Station.
Passangers, please take care of your own belongings….
Very good, Shantam, that’s rather droll…
But still something to remember on the Great Railway Journey of Life, even after 2500 years…
PS: Where are you going anyway? I thought you were in Deutschland?
shantam bhai…beautiful and hilarious analogy…
sometimes your dim wit catches the very essence !!!