Resort Blues: A comment from Giten.

An open Comment from Giten to a sannyasin about the situation in the so-called “Resort”

“I want my sannyasins to inherit my freedom, my awareness, my consciousness. And each sannyasin has to be my successor, has to be me. There is no need for anybody to dominate. There is nobody for anybody to dictate to. They are on their own. If they want to be together they can be together. Out of their own freedom, it is their choice and their decision. If they want to move free they have all the rights to move free.” OSHO- The Last Testament, Vol-2

Beloved,
I was one of the few sannyasins (in Sweden) who did not in any way support the former “Sheela-fiasco” regime. For this courage and integrity, I got the whole Swedish sannyas-commune against me. There were insane rumours going on about me. Even today not one single member of the then Swedish commune has taken any responsibility, and apologized for this foolishness. Osho said about the “Sheela-fiasco”: “Sheela could exist because you allowed her to exist”, which I doubt that many sannyasins have really heard. After the “Sheela fiasco”, Osho also said something like: “I wanted to give you a taste of fascism”.

I have also publicly criticised the situation with the Pune “Resort” for many years, but unfortunately I have no expectation any longer that the Resort situation will change. The sannyas movement today (speaking on the whole) also acts very much like during the “Sheela-fiasco” – like a dysfunctional group with the three roles and behaviours: aggressor, denier (“I do not know what is going on”, “I do not involve myself in the “politics”, “I only meditate, I do not care about the organization” or ” I have investments and receive ego gratification through my position in the organization, so I do not speak my love and truth) and victim.

I also doubt that the three guys in charge of the “resort” are actually sannyasins any longer. They seem to be on a power trip and have sold out sannyas to American companies. Who for example now actually controls the “Resort”, and Osho´s books?

However, not withstanding, it is a good situation to listen to one’s own heart, to one’s own love and truth, to one’s own intelligence and creativity.

Love,
Giten

www.giten.net

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114 Responses to Resort Blues: A comment from Giten.

  1. Heraclitus says:

    I like the fact that in your last sentence Giten you seem to acknowledge that the Resort may still be a koan for any sannyasin’s growth.
    Where I differ from you is that I always saw that the Ashram, the Oregon Commune, and now Resort, was just that. This included when Osho was alive.
    Perhaps despite your misgivings these “situations” are there for all of us.If they push our buttons, then maybe it is a sign that the Master is still doing his work?
    It is not clear from your short article what you think is actually so wrong with the Resort… the fact that it is still there, some 20 years after Osho died, is surely indicative of something, some unremitting energy that just goes on and on?

  2. Alok john says:

    I am also unclear why Giten complains about the Resort. It costs UK £8 per day to enter and for that you can do any meditation from dawn to the evening discourse in considerably better conditions than when Osho was alive.

    I think we should thank Jayesh and Dr Amrito for the fact that the place is still going.

    Giten writes referring to the Sheela-fascist regime-fiasco “Even today not one single member of the then Swedish commune has taken any responsibility, and apologized for this foolishness. Osho said about the “Sheela-fiasco”: “Sheela could exist because you allowed her to exist”….

    It is the same in the UK, but what to do, maybe they just don’t have the awareness or understanding of their responsibility.

  3. amrito says:

    “Giten has been compared with the poetry of Kahlil Gibran, author of the famous book The Prophet, and he has been quoted together with Buddha, Osho, Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, Carl Jung…..”

    Hello Giten, i was just browsing through your page, and the only mention given to Osho was from the quote above.

    In fact, no other page gives any references towards Osho (that I could easily find ofcourse).

    In the quote above, you are “compared” to Osho, not a desciple of Osho–and comparison is competetition, no?

    So I might have you all wrong than, forgive me if I do.

    You want those Swedish sannyasins to apoligize to you? Why? They were unconcious and trusted Sheela to be Osho’s messenger, where is there direct fault? Yes, many have learned from Sheela’s experience and those Osho words you have written, but WHY should they apoligize to you?

    Good for you that you spoke out, but it is strange you are demanding apologies—its either there or not. When somone saves someone from drowning, they either thank them or not—but what should it matter to the person who saved. They acted in their own conciousness.

    Your entire website is you and your quotes, and your art, which are beautiful. But, if you were runnin the resort–would you put your quotes, art and pictures and rename the resort Giten Meditation Resort?

    Don’t take me the wrong way, I dont know you and I’m judging from your website.

    Swami Rajneesh atleast openly takes Osho as his master, and the same with Sw. Anand Arun. One is close to imitation, but he aknowledges. Sw. Anand Arun does not even try to “compare” himself with Osho.

    So, about the criitisims on the Osho Resort. I agree with you on some points, but there are people who are speaking out and doing there own thing.

    There’s Osho World, Osho Nisarga, Osho Tapoban, Osho Amritdham, Osho Leela, Croydon Hall, Osho UTA, Osho Manjusha…so many places doing their own thing inspite of the Osho Resorts ways of manipulation.

    But, a fact is, all these places are thriving. And they have either spoken out, done something new, doing the same thing—or doing nothing and letting the grass grow.

    But, those who feel disdain about the resort are not poisoned or banned from Sannyas, they are simply banned from entering the gates—but not of Osho.

    Love,
    Amrito

  4. Dr Nisha says:

    Well said Amrito, I also agree with you that swami Anand Arun
    does not even try to “compare” himself with Osho.That is his Beauty and in that way he is surpasssing Hhis Love and Grace to all of us and We are Blessed.
    Dr Nisha,Suravi.

  5. Any thought, feeling and expression about the ashram and its management is a touchy and firey issue. I am sure all the readers on this site feel touched and concerned about the mother organsiation, Ashram may become an Osho International airport, still it will be a sacred place in many many many hearts.
    When one sees the comments of prominent three on these pages, one wonders how diverse and obstinate we sannyasins have become. So much fixed with the idea that what we see is full of light because we have listened Him toatlly( we have not heard Him saying, we know what He has said). There are people who always support who so ever has the deciding power in any organisation and country. Just one can see the election results in North Korea, whole population thinks their chairman as a man with four eyes though the world treats him as someone blinded with lust of power.
    Jayesh and Amrito are doing their work beautifully, but it is ” their work”, collective sannyas heart is not involved.
    And see, i am sure one of the prominent comment writer will jump on my statement and will say, under paragraph so and so there is no collective sannyas heart. He has trained us to be individual, we are not any other group and blah blah….
    As Amrito has mentioned himself in the” I leave you my dream”, Osho wants 21 sannyasins with diverse background to take care of the expansion of His work. About every practical issue they should come on a common opinion after meditating together at Samadhi..
    i am surprised none has up loaded this historical video át Youtube. I think i should learn how to fix videos there!

  6. frank says:

    that`s what we all need,
    another sermon from his self-righteousness,the very reverend giten from the swedish church of i told-you-so latter day therapists:

    .
    friends often like to compare me to leonardo,osho,einstein,buddha,shakespeare,rumi,
    jesus christ,krishnamurti,gandhi,william james,albert schweitzer,albert steptoe,swedenborg,bjorn borg,bjorn ulvaeus from abba and so on ,but mostly they ask:
    how come you are always right about everything when everyone one else is not only completely wrong,but dont even know when its time to apologise to a great genius?

    look,my philosophy is simple,itslike an IKEA flatpack.
    its basic but you can stick it just about anywhere and get away with it.
    first:
    “you are responsible for sheela”(aggressor)
    “no i`m not” (denier)
    “where`s my 55 million dollars?”(victim)
    see?
    or in stockholm on a saturday night:
    “what are you looking at?”(aggressor)
    “i`m not”(denier)
    “well dont” thump(victim)

    im proud that my unique psychological insight intelligence and creativity have put me up there with carl jung,michaelangelo,khalil gibran,goethe,william blake,thomas edison,mark twain,jerry garcia,van gogh,charlie chaplin,greta garbo,dolph lundgren,walter mitty and benny anderson.

    so when it comes to listening to me,i suggest you use your own heart and intelligence…….

  7. vista says:

    Osho used to tell this joke in one of his hindi discourse….

    Once a school inspector goes to inspect a school. While inspecting the inspector finds in one of the class room….loud noises coming…student becoming unruly…and all the rest of. He surprising finds that the teacher was fast alseep in his desk……….he was amazed….he couldnt believe his eyes! Then as the inspector enters the class room, due to this sudden presence….the teacher wakes up! once seeing the inspector……he tells the classroom…..now listen children……this is how kumbhakarna(he is one of the character in ramayana, who is famous for his voracious appetite for sleep, apparently he used to sleep for 12yrs) used to sleep! at this even the inspector and classroom laugh at his audacity and lies!

    Now I ask….is osho that teacher? Did he actually slept while his class went unruly? but couldnt accept that responsibility?

    why is osho saying “sheela exist because you allowed her to exist”….what about him? why did he allowed her to exist? Why is he shrinking from his responsibility?

    and isnt this such an audacious cheekynees to say “I wanted to give you a taste of fascism” As if humanity hadnt seen enough of fascism? Do we really need osho to give us taste of fascism…..? and at what cost?
    This doesnt sound very compassionate to me……..after all didnt osho state that history of all humanity is everyhumans history…no matters where it happens…….there was already communism, Nazis, in southamerican countries were fascism….and in many other places. Did he think that sannyasins were such a stupid bunch of people who had no idea of history and human psyche that he needed to teach them a lesson?

    Another Osho Joke:

    John wake up”, mother says

    No i wont….says John

    but its nearly ten oclock….you must go to school…says mum

    No I wont go to school…to hell with school…says john

    what?…says mum

    you heard me right…to hell with school….I dont want to go to school…i want to stay in bed…says john

    But son….says mum….YOU ARE THE PRINCIPLE OF SCHOOL!

    Wasnt Osho the principle of school? wasnt he heading the sannyas movement? Or did he just want to sleep in his bed and not give a toss about school?

    Why is not osho not resposible for all this?

    There is a prevalent attitude specially among Indian osho sannaysin that….he will do it all kind of attitude….so he must have done this too….

    Osho is …should….must take responsibilty for that happened too.

    After all his words were the last words…..at least among sannyasins!

  8. Dilruba,Poona,India says:

    Has anyone remembered why we are Really here or why Osho started giving Sanyas…..lam sure not to form these kinds of groups……. anyway we are all responsible…….. for making a Religion …that too so soon …..

  9. Alok john says:

    Vista wrote :
    “Did he think that sannyasins were such a stupid bunch of people who had no idea of history and human psyche that he needed to teach them a lesson?”

    Quite possibly, in my opinion. And maybe He was right. The (mainly white, Western) sannyasins at Rajneeshpuram organised themselves into a “fascist” authoritarian cult surprisingly easily. Since the demise of Rajneeshpuram the movement has not been “fascist” or cultish.

    Vista wrote : “Did he actually slept while his class went unruly? but couldnt accept that responsibility?
    why is osho saying “sheela exist because you allowed her to exist”….what about him? why did he allowed her to exist? Why is he shrinking from his responsibility?”

    My understanding of his enlightenment meant that he had total trust in existence so that when Sheela pushed herself to the top of the organisation, His attitude was that existence wanted her there. And when she did crazy stuff (he must have known some of it) he took it as if it was part of the plan of existence.

  10. Chetna says:

    If you speak to Sheela now she still thinks she has done nothing wrong. So we all have our little world….

  11. frank says:

    the guru/chela master/disciple relationship is one of absolute obedience to the authority.
    what the guru says is final and supreme.
    that is how osho did it.
    do you have any stories of him making decisions on anyone`s advice?

    please tell me what the difference between this and dictatorship?

  12. frank says:

    here`s one for the rent-a-quote boys:

    “sheela could exist because YOU allowed her to exist”

    ” I give you a taste of fascism”

    i say yes
    you say no
    i say hohoho

  13. Alok john says:

    Frank wrote :

    “do you have any stories of him making decisions on anyone`s advice?”

    I am sure he took Dr Amrito’s medical advice sometimes. For example he entered a plea of guilty to immigration violations on medical advice so he would not have to go back to jail.

    Frank wrote “please tell me what the difference between this and dictatorship?”

    “Dictator” often means someone who is able to use violence, in extremis, to get his way. So if you defied Hitler, your life was at risk. If you defied Osho you could be thrown out of the commune/ashram; that is all. That is the difference.

  14. frank says:

    hi john,

    so it was “dictatorship-lite?”

    still is(tm)?

    do you want to spend the rest of your life being dicktated to by dickheads(tm)?

    follow your own dick,not someone else`s,at least,no?

  15. deva sugit says:

    actually, he was not going to plead ‘guilty’ or ‘nolo contendre’ or whatever it was. so the lawyer(s), who knew this, spoke up when the judge asked for the plea, before he could speak, and said guilty. these sannyasin lawyers did not want him to go to jail. he himself was ready to go to jail, to be crucified, anything for truth, without compromise. but then he did not fight the lawyer.

    like when he was sick once and vivek said you’re too sick to go speak today and he said yes he was going to speak and she blocked the door, locked the door. well then, he didnt fight her and didnt go out to speak that day.

  16. Hev says:

    Great Frank! ‘Follow your own dick’ heehee

  17. Alok john says:

    Thank you Sugit. I did not know that detail.

    It is so strange this business of saying “Yes” to everything, yes to Sheela, and yes to the lawyer who pled guilty on his behalf.

    I am sure it is hard for a newcomer to understand.

  18. frank says:

    hi john,
    are you sure that only `newcomers` will find it hard to understand?
    according to the world famous osho expert anthony thompson:
    “one thing that people,especially sannyasins,have difficulty dealing with is that it was one thing what osho said for the recordand another what he did”

    one of osho`s pet hates was “cunning politicians”
    yet in his life,he seems to have courted and been surrounded by endless political intrigue,
    his nearly successor,teertha,turned out to be a “cunning politician”
    laxmi could twist an arm r two,
    and sheela was straight out of machiavelli.
    he publicly supported sheela right up to 1985,remember.
    devageet and his dental team,by his own account were on their best behavior on pain of being replaced.
    and what of the forced apologies of the people who laughed in discourse in pune 2.
    straight out of red china.
    and the threats to “leave his body”on a certain day if people didnt show up for his gig?
    and all the “devices” to help transcend the ego bear a remerkable similarity to the devices dictators use to keep the boss`s bum in the boss`s seat.
    constant `reporting back` on others(or grassing) from people looking for brownie points.
    etc etc
    itsall there.

    “i am not a democrat,i am a dictator”
    -osho,notes of a madman.

    and i cant tell you the date of this quote as it has been subject to nearly 25 tears of political dispute!

  19. Alok john says:

    Frank

    But Sheela, teertha, laxmi, cunning politicians in comparison with T Blair, Chairman Mao, Bill Clinton? Come on, Sheela, teertha, laxmi were absolute beginners in comparison. He never “courted” … political intrigue.

    “and what of the forced apologies of the people who laughed in discourse in pune 2.
    straight out of red china.”

    Read a book about Red China and see the difference. He had no temporal power. You could not be locked up in a re-education camp against your will.

  20. frank says:

    hi john,
    “cunning politician” were the actual words osho used to describe teertha`s motivations as a would-be succesor,as he saw it..he said this in 1985 when teertha dissasociated with him.
    so you should be telling osho to”come on”,not me.

    there is a difference between what happened with the forced apologies in buddha hall and red china.but there are also similarities.
    thats what i`m drawing attention to.

    osho was not hitler.
    but he did say:
    “i am not a democrat.i am a dictator”

  21. Alok john says:

    Come on Osho, Teertha was an absolute beginner as a politician :)

    He has just channeled to me that he agrees with me :)

  22. swami says:

    hello giten,
    seems like you have a lot of stuff going on…and still from the past..
    giten.. there were thousands of sannyasins that refused to support sheela and left .. It’s so long ago it is hardly a reflection of your courage and integrety.. these qualities are actually only visible in the moment .. you can’t really say .. I was courageous in the past if you don’t reflect it in the present..
    ..as you are barred from the resort it is hard to understand the title of the article.. but anyway..
    to share a little with you…….
    in the title you come with ..in the so called resort…why can’t you allow them to call it the resort?
    it is called the resort wether we like it or not that is what it is called….and it is a resort.. resisting it’s name is silly…
    and you have publicly criticised the pune resort..
    well it is easy to criticise….much harder to create..
    and you say you have no expectation that the resort will change …
    change is the only thing that is guaranteed.
    and then you go on putting everything in therepist boxes..
    by the way if you look at your boxes I would put you into the victim box. you still have wounds from that time and continue up to today.
    and then you go on ………….I also doubt that the three guys in charge of the “resort” are actually sannyasins any longer.
    …..this is exactly what comes out of some of the comments from resort management….of course they are sannyasins they just have a different view to you.
    giten .. meditate .. go in to your center and look for the place where you can allow all to be lovers of Osho.
    I’m not really sure why you wanted to post this small piece here unless it was a cry for attention/help …anyway..best wishes to you.

  23. amrito says:

    Frankie,

    Can you share your experience from Pune1, 2, USA, and 3?

    Judging from some of your recent comments, behind the sarcasm seems to be bitter feelings no?

    And if you’ve moved on from Osho or since Osho, what are you doing here on Sannyasnews!!

    -Amrito

  24. frank says:

    he completely outstripped mahavira…
    stood patanjali on his head..
    turned more of a profit than mohamed..
    his women made krishna gopis look like a rugby team.
    nailed jesus crackpot`s comeback plans..
    threw the complaining buddha out of his jacuzzi …
    told hotei a few he hadnt heard…
    talked the hind legs off zarathustra…
    turned the zen bull up to 11…
    gave rama some flying lessons too…

    managed to provoke god
    and just about everyone else!

    quite somebody
    for a nobody
    this fellow
    osho

  25. Swami Bodhi Jacques says:

    The river is sounding, so it carries stones, There is something cooking with the corporate intentions.
    Interesting I say.
    Any how my tuning went on … on

    Swami Bodhi Jacques

  26. swami says:

    yes quite amusing you are frank.
    thank you.

    quite somebody
    for a nobody
    this fellow
    frank.

  27. amrito says:

    I love it Frank,

    Thanks.

  28. amrito says:

    and if you dont mind, is what you just shared with us copyrighted?

    I would like to share this on facebook, hahah!!

  29. Chetna says:

    Frank is also my favorite

  30. Alok john says:

    very funny frank :)

  31. satya says:

    it is indicative of the level of consciousness that the osho movement and sannyas news in particular has fallen to,when the disgraceful,obscene,anti-osho and insultingly warped so-called witicisms and outpourings of the clearly deranged individual known as frank are widely praised.
    the man should be roundly condemned as the scoundrel he obviously is.he has clearly abused his freedom,like so many old sannyasins- and instead of seriously embarking on a journey to enlightenment and meditation,has wasted his life taking gargantuan amounts of drugs,larking around on beaches and in discos,chasing girls,acting the unconscious goat and now inflicting his paltry rhymes and lewd sayings on a group of people who should not be giggling like schoolchildren at the mention of `dicks`,but should be busily and earnestly seeking enlightenment and release from the wheel of karma as instructed by osho and all the serious mystics.
    no doubt some of you will feel that he is “up there” with shakespeare,kahlil gibran,kabir et al,but i simply cannot share your infantile enthusiasm.
    was oshos mission of enlightenment so wasted on his disciples that they have ended up living just sitting around doing nothing,taking nothing seriously, making love,and laughing all the time?

  32. Dilruba says:

    Satya ,my friend,U seem to be really Inteligent……..but then u r getting lil too serious!

  33. amrito says:

    Satya, you are an idiot.

  34. amrito says:

    and i say that with a laugh.

    Hehehe..

  35. Chetna says:

    was oshos mission of enlightenment so wasted on his disciples that they have ended up living just sitting around doing nothing,taking nothing seriously, making love,and laughing all the time?

    ….yeah…and the grass grows by itself!

  36. Alok john says:

    Satya, I do hope you are joking but I fear you are not.

    How do you know Frank “has wasted his life taking gargantuan amounts of drugs,larking around on beaches and in discos,chasing girls.” This is just speculation.

    You write “he has clearly abused his freedom,like so many old sannyasins- and instead of seriously embarking on a journey to enlightenment and meditation.”

    Osho was always against seriousness.

    Osho said, and I have got the discourse here, when you have to make a decision, go where the bliss is. So if it blissful for you to do dynamic, do dynamic. And if it is blissful for you to lark around in discos, then lark around in discos.

    His teaching was not “If you work hard enough, you will get enlightened” because not everyone is at this stage yet. If you have unfinished business with the world and are still fascinated by girls or money or whatever, you have to experience and be tired of this stuff before you can leave the world.
    No amount of repressing these desires will work.

    You write Frank “should be busily and earnestly seeking enlightenment and release from the wheel of karma as instructed by osho and all the serious mystics.”

    Osho never gave a general instruction like this. At least I do not think he gave a general instruction for everybody. In the Rajneesh Bible series he was very critical of many “serious mystics.”

    Satya, His teaching was subtle and intelligent. It was tantra, letting go, not yoga, self discipline. If you discipline yourself, the part you do not choose just goes into the unconscious and increases the ego. This is what he means by “not choosing.” It is in his books.

    Read his books, listen to his discourses, maybe the English ones if you have only heard Hindi discourses. Osho was not an old fashioned yoga teacher

  37. Alok john says:

    I think satya was joking :)

  38. deva sugit says:

    humor is a very serious thing

  39. Hev says:

    A Ma woke up from her designer-vagina operation to see three bunches of flowers. The nurse read out the first tag which was from the Ma’s partner thanking her for having the procedure
    The second bunch was from the surgeon for her being such a good patient.
    ‘I cant think who the other bunch is from’ said the Ma.
    The nurse explained,
    ‘Oh that’s from a man in the burns unit thanking you for his new ears’

  40. Anthony Thompson says:

    It is so absolutely fascinating to see how everybody is trying to sort out what osho really did, meant, indicated… so that we can validate or not our points of view, or the resort, or frank or whomever.
    The one thing i told the managing team of the resort was: stop throwing Osho quotes like evangelicals, or trying to find quotes that back up your desitions. Just stand up and take responsability for the desitions you make. No one, I mean no one, can know what Osho would have done or said now. HE is dead.

    Certainly he talked about the biggest “health club” in the world for his commune… It had always to be “the biggest” for him. That is the way he was… It could not be just a little resort.
    anyway, What I said to the managing team, or inner circle, was that If they thought what had to be done was what they were doing, so say so!… do not hide behind Osho, the guy is dead… and anyway I thought their desitions were clever and they were dismateling any possiblity of cultism to the figure of osho. and I think that is healthy.
    It is faaar better to make a resort than a temple. Temples have done a lot of damage for humanity, I do not know of any resort who has ever hurt anyone… unless, of course , you slip in the swiming pool.

    I agree with the desitions of de-guruing Osho´s work… fantastic move! I strongly disagree withe the not frontal way they do it… looking for quotes that will support their position, just like calder…

    I even think they could have left some little space for people who are hooked or fond of devotional stuff. Some room in the piramids where people can go and sing “osho we miss you so much”.

    I do not look for Osho´s ideas to see what to do with my life…I just decide this myself…
    Strangley, I learned this from HIm
    greetrings
    Anthony

  41. Alok john says:

    Well, Hev, I do not get it. Where do ears come into the picture?

  42. Anthony Thompson says:

    It is so absolutely fascinating to see how everybody is trying to sort out what osho really did, meant, indicated… so that we can validate or not our points of view, or the resort, or frank or whomever.
    The one thing i told the managing team of the resort was: stop throwing Osho quotes like evangelicals, or trying to find quotes that back up your desitions. Just stand up and take responsability for the desitions you make. No one, I mean no one, can know what Osho would have done or said now. HE is dead.

    Certainly he talked about the biggest “health club” in the world for his commune… It had always to be “the biggest” for him. That is the way he was… It could not be just a little resort.
    anyway, What I said to the managing team, or inner circle, was that If they thought what had to be done was what they were doing, so say so!… do not hide behind Osho, the guy is dead… and anyway I thought their desitions were clever and they were dismateling any possiblity of cultism to the figure of osho. and I think that is healthy.
    It is faaar better to make a resort than a temple. Temples have done a lot of damage for humanity, I do not know of any resort who has ever hurt anyone… unless, of course , you slip in the swiming pool.

    I agree with the desitions of de-guruing Osho´s work… fantastic move! I strongly disagree withe the not frontal way they do it… looking for quotes that will support their position, just like calder…

    I even think they could have left some little space for people who are hooked or fond of devotional stuff. Some room in the piramids where people can go and sing “osho we miss you so much”.

    I do not look for Osho´s ideas to see what to do with my life…I just decide this myself…
    Strangely, I learned this from HIm
    greetrings
    Anthony

  43. Dr. Nisha says:

    PLzzzzz Anthony dont write the Sentence like He is Dead,You have just shown yur Animal Instinct coming out of you,Its very very obvious that you have No Meditation in your life and I feel Pity for you,How the hell can you say that Temple has not done anything good,it shows the Darkest side of yur Personality.U wanna see OSHO alive then go to Nepal OSHO Tapoban ,there you will find OSHO alive in everything.I bet you will not be the same person after visiting Tapoban. You have written Strangely you have learnt from him,Infact you havent learned anything from him,So SAD.Dont You Worry,still there is time…………………………………………….

  44. Anthony Thompson says:

    Dear dr. meditation has nothing to do with believing a dead enlightened master is guiding you like a god. Osho himself would have laughed at that point of view. In fact that is what he was fighting against all his life. Dead temples, alive chuches or anything that was remotely like a church. He was all for what he called religiousness and at the end of his life he even droped that and I quote him ” I had to use the word religion because you would have not understand. Now we can drop even that… just consciousness is enough”.
    I do not need to go anywhere to see that you can not distinguish your own mind prtojections from the witenessing space behind.
    Osho is dead, that is a fact. your love, my love for him is very much alive. what he woke up in me is alive… the rest is just superstitions and fantasies, He was very much against.
    please just read the guy a little bit.
    greetings
    anthony

  45. amrito says:

    Alok john // Mar 19, 2009 at 9:55 pm
    Well, Hev, I do not get it. Where do ears come into the picture?

    haha….NO its not Zen Koan either Alok.

  46. “Pope Benedict’s repeated gaffes and the Vatican City’s inability to manage his message in the web era are threatening to undermine his papacy, leading British newspaper ‘The Daily Telegraph’ quoted the unnamed insiders as saying….”

    Somehow the same article can be applied for the Pontiffs of Osho´s work at the Ashram(they call it resort); I wonder why these priests are totally cut off from the fast changing inner and outer realites.
    People like Giten,keerti etc, try to bring sensibilites to the management but will be termed as reactionaries.
    Somehow it is a interesting to watch whether North Korea will change first or Cuba or our very own; osho Ashram International run by the “meritocracy”,

  47. Anuragi says:

    I feel absolutely ashamed about the answer that Dr. Nisha gave to Anthony Thompson. I do not feel represented at all by that way of being a sannyasin. As Anthony rightly points out it is full of superstitions and is doing nothing but spreading the same kind or religious belief systems that our master tryed to destroy in us. I do not know what is happening in Arun´s place… but if this is what is being taught… then I feel really concerned.
    Osho spent much iof his time trying to decondition us from our religious baggage to end up being referred to as a god in the sky.
    We can say he is alive symbolically, in us, in nature, in our hearts or in our meditation; but to claim that he is not dead is simply scary.
    Anthony, representing, educated, intelligent sannyasins… accept my apologize for Dr.Nisha ´s insults to you.
    love
    Anuragi

  48. Alok john says:

    Anthony,
    “I do not look for Osho´s ideas to see what to do with my life…I just decide this myself…”

    yes but we all have values and beliefs that guide us. maybe yours are from osho, freud, who else?

    “meditation has nothing to do with believing a dead enlightened master is guiding you like a god. Osho himself would have laughed at that point of view. In fact that is what he was fighting against all his life. ”

    I am the gate : “Those who follow mahavir can communicate with mahavir through his statue even today” And follows similar statements about Buddhist statues and the mala.

  49. Anthony Thompson says:

    “Those who think that can communicate with a former master, or even with me… in an astral plane, are just communicating with their own unconsciouss mind. Once a master has left the body, you can connect with him, through the trees, the clouds. but you are not really communicating with him, you are communicating with the essence of the universe that was alive in the master too. When a master is gone he is no more available to this word.He has dissolved into the whole. That is why existence is always bringing new ones.” The rajneesh bible.

    Should we continue throwing quotes like evangelicals? which statement is right, or wrong? who is the real Osho?
    As always it will depend on what we THINK is the truth.
    greetings
    anthony

  50. Alok john says:

    Anthony, I take your point about throwing quotations, but do you think then his words are just nothing?

    Sometimes he is consistent. For example (I think!) he is always against nation states. I think he is always for let-go, not holding on. I think he is never for developing a strong will.

    “What I said to the managing team, or inner circle, was that If they thought what had to be done was what they were doing, so say so!… do not hide behind Osho, the guy is dead…”

    yes but Amrito, jayesh were in a personal relationship with osho. If osho said to them do such and such, maybe they feel they should follow his wishes.

  51. Chetna says:

    ‘As always it will depend on what we THINK is the truth.’

    Not always, sometimes it happens that one experiences what truth is and then would not even argue if Osho is dead or not, one simply knows. And then Osho’s words are not contradictions. From Anthony’s experience Osho is dead, many others experienced something else.

  52. Anthony Thompson says:

    First Alok. i do not think his words are nothing. I just think that they have to be taken in a broader context. And ultimately it is not about anybody else but me, my conditioning, my ideas I hold on to. That was, in my understanding, what he was trying to do. To decondition the attachment to ones own point of view. It does not matter what that is.
    there is no way to know what osho would have done now. And that is not the issue. the issue is what every one thinks, based on ideas or experience is the right think to do… and in that case i agree with the inner circle desitions.
    Now chetna, truth is not an experience. the way I understand it , what ever we can experience is an understanding of truth and then that is always tainted with my own experiences, whch is colored by the contec of my mind.
    When I say osho is dead, I do not mean his vision. I mean the actual person. and that is undeniable. To be alive means to inhabite a breathing body, an organism. and that was gone december 19th 1990. That is a fact. So what that organism we call osho would have done today… no way to know it.
    anthony

  53. amrito says:

    Anuragi says:

    “I do not know what is happening in Arun´s place… but if this is what is being taught… then I feel really concerned.”

    I know what you mean as far as “Dr. Nisha” is concerned.

    What can I say, I know “dr” Nisha, very well, and lets say she goes from one extreme to another. A perfect extremist and she either loves or hates Arun…and right now shes on a the love side…or delusional, whichever comes first.

    So, many Tapoban people know this too, so don’t worry about her comments!

  54. Anuragi says:

    Beloved Amrito.
    the way Dr. Nisha speaks reminds me of the old ladies speaking about the holy virgin mary in the catholic church.
    So my thoughts are: either She does not understand Osho at all, never read him, never was with him, or someone is feeding those kinds of bullshit esoteric ideas to her. Speaking of dark sides, the benefits of temples, and finally adopting the calssical religious holier than thou attitude with someone who, despite the fact of not being a sannyasin, has showed, so much love, caring and work for our beloved master… and in an intelligent non fanatic way.
    That is why I expressed my concerned about what is being done in the name of Osho´s work in Tapoban.
    Love
    Anuragi

  55. Dr. Nisha says:

    Dear Anthony,
    I tottaly agree with your statement “When I say osho is dead, I do not mean his vision. I mean the actual person. and that is undeniable. To be alive means to inhabite a breathing body, an organism. and that was gone december 19th 1990. That is a fact.”Yes that is absolutely right and OSHO has also said this also Your love towards me is not biological; with me your love is a totally different phenomena – it is of the spirit, not of the body. & secondly, you are connected with me because of your search for truth. My relationship with you is that of meditation. Meditation is the only bridge between me & you. Your love will deepen as your meditation deepens, & vice-versa: as your meditation blossoms, your love will blossom. But it is on a totally different level. Thatswhy I wrote you in that way.
    Well Anurag I got initiated from Swami Anand Arun in October 23rd 2004 and my Sannyas name is Ma Dhyaan Suravi,Yes absolutely you will find Osho presence in Tapoban,where you will find oshos meditation,his Photos,everyone wearing Robe just like Poona 1, you wont find a Resort there.Dont feel Ashamed Anuragi,you dont have to really,As Anthony doesnot feel bad,I can see that but I dont knw why you are feeling so bad??I am very happy that your anger is coming out atleast,well I am not towards Temple or anything like that dear,just the DEAD word scared me,thats it,for me OSHO is ALIVE.
    Dear Amrito,it seems you are still angry with me. Dear I love Arun swami alot.You dont worry for that Dear ,By email or chat you cannot judge anyone,get this striaght in your head.Everyone knows me in Tapoban very well as a Doctor Sanyasin ma who love everyone so nearly and dearly and treating all those sanyasin who used to fall Sick including Arun Swamiji.Delusional hahahahaaaa,everyone is Delusional until unless you dont get Enlightened,Once you were also Delusional as you were also negative towards Arun Swami as you have mentioned in your Previous Article.
    Well I am sorry Anthony if it had Hurt you……………………..Suravi Ma.

  56. Dr. Nisha says:

    This is for you Beloved AMRITO”My sannyasin has to drop not the world, but conflict itself. He has to transform his energy from conflict into harmony, from dispute into trust. Life is too short to waste in disputes, it is too short to waste in fighting. This small bit of energy that we have has to be transformed into a celebration.Blessed are those who can celebrate because theirs is the kingdom of God. But celebration is possible only when all conflict has stopped. So don’t fight with others and don’t fight with yourself. Stop fighting, start loving! Love is my message.” — OSHO , from: “No Man Is An Island”

  57. Dr. Nisha says:

    Amrito I love Arun swami alot………………………………….and Tapoban is my LIFE.I love Tapoban alot and I cant think myself without Tapoban and Arun swami.You are also Welcome.
    Dear Anthony will you plzzz answer to this beautyful note which OSHO has said. In regard to that I wrote like that You also Anuragi plzzz have a Look to this note.” AND EVEN IF I AM GONE–IF YOUR LOVE IS DEEP ENOUGH–I will be present for you. Whenever you close your eyes, You will find me beating within your heart. I have sown the seed. It is only a question of when the Spring will come-and IT ALWAYS COMES. Just REMAIN OPEN, AVAILABLE. I will be here to help you. If I am not in the body, still I can be here to help you. In fact, I can be of more help when I am freed from the body. Then my consciousness will spread all over. THOSE WHO HAVE LOVED ME-THEY WILL BECOME PART OF ME. They have already started MELTING and MERGING with ME. So the only question that should be important to you is not to hinder the process of your merging and your melting. Whether I am in the body or not, you should NOT wait for tomorrow. TODAY IS THE DAY THIS MOMENT IS THE MOMENT. And this is my promise: I will try to linger on this shore as long as possible. And even when my ship is gone, WHENEVER YOUR TEARS WILL CALL ME, OR YOUR LAUGHTER, I WILL BE WITH YOU. And whenever you will dance and sing, Meditation can bring you to your nature. It can help you to drop all the perversions. It can make you intelligent, it can make you loving, it can make you spontaneous, it can make you responsible. It can make you a benediction to yourself and to existence. Except meditation there is no other method which can help. This is the key, the master key. With Love Suravi ma.

  58. Vishakha says:

    Well, Anthony,

    I decided to remain silent reading your post for a moment. But I could not. I am not trying to jump and attack your ego here..as lot of fellow friends are doing here.. Ego is the last thing that gets left out spontaneously in the inner journey..

    There are many ways you can approach your master. Yes, as you said Osho is dead(Only his body is gone). But how about HIS consciousness..HIS body is just his appearance. Body or no body, HE is everywhere in existence, I do not think it made any difference to HIS disciples. Even HE was in HIS body, even direct communication was possible, people who were unwilling to surrender, they did not transform. I agree that we cannot communicate with him today face-to-face. ..that is so absurd. BUT I just want to share that if you are seeking guidance from HIM, looking for master’s guidance in your inner search currently, HE will guide you. There are ways he can indicate you with clues. For example, HE could come in your vision in deep meditative state.

    I am blissful everyday seeing HIS love, grace, compassion showering on me, I just want to share HE is available everywhere.

  59. Dr. Nisha says:

    Amrito has written What can I say, I know “dr” Nisha, very well, hahahaaa Dear Amrito Do you knw Who are You,First of all try to find it out “Who Are You”?Then only worry about me.You knw me very well through Chat through Facebook,hahahhaaa,You are talking like a Child.How can You knw anyone through Chat??Anyway I will suggest you to work upon yurself first,when you discover yur True Self ,then try to find mine also.
    Take care,love suravi ma.

  60. Dr. Nisha says:

    You are absolutely right Visaakha,thats what I wanted to say Anthony.And Anuragi jumped upon me haaaaaaahaaaaaaaa.I understand OSHO,I read him and OSHO is alwayz with me Anuragi,for you and Anthony he is DEAD but not for me.I alwayz feel him in my Meditation.And noone is feeding bullshit esoteric ideas to me dear.Well I suggest you to visit Tapoban once you will really LOVE the place and Swami Anand Arun,he is wonderful and very Loving person.Swami Anand Arun has given us a new LIFE.
    Ma Dhyaan Suravi[Beautyful name given my Arun Swami,which means Fragrance of Meditation]

  61. Vishakha says:

    Dr. Nisha,

    Thanks for writing such a beautiful quote from our Master.

  62. Anuragi says:

    I have nothing against you Dr. Nisha. I do not know you. I just think the way you attacked anthony is classical of somone´s belief systems being challenged. And that for me is not what to be a sannyasin is about. It is about the search for consciousness, it is about waking up… and in the end is not even about osho, It is about me…. you
    Osho said a hundred times he was “a finger pointing to the moon. Don´t bite the finger.”
    Your vision sounds like a very new sannyasin who is just changing God for Osho as an omnipresent, father figure.
    This is not my experience. i do not feel represented by that. and more over I do not feel it represents Osho´s vision neither.
    Ma prem Anuragi

  63. Anthony Thompson says:

    Vishaka. the truth i do not know what happens to anybody´s consciousness once they are dead. I Do not have any experience about that. regarding osho´s consciousness guiding me from the beyond… the truth is i would not be able to distinguish that from my own mind projection and wishful thinking fantasies. so, I have to be honest that i do not know about that.
    As far as throwing some quotes to back up my position as Nisha did… here we go… more evangelical than ever.!!
    ” once I am gone there is no need to make any special place for me. I want to be forgotten and forgiven. I do not want to be a hindrance for my people. I do not want them to cling to me. I want them to grow on their own, to walk their own path… a real master always frees his people from him. When I dead. at least let me go.”
    The last testament
    cheers!!
    Who is right? If I choose Osho to back up my own position… what do I do with the contradiction? what part do i choose to decide what is right?
    These are very important questions, once the master is gone and only the words are left…
    anthony

  64. frank says:

    anthony
    in your view,what osho “was trying to do” was to
    “decondition the attachment to one`s point of view”
    then i suggest the works of christopher calder should be helpful for you,no?

  65. Dr. Nisha says:

    Thank you very much.

  66. Today is Osho`s enlightenment day. We don´t need to celebrate as it is a Christian or Hindu festival;but the fact remains that Osho created this day as a festival day and nowhere he mentioned that these festivals you should take away, once i leave the body or i die. So happy enlightenment day from a “conservative” sannyasin!

  67. Anthony Thompson says:

    Franky. My understanding is that pne aspect, not the whople one , of Osho´s work was to decondition the attachment to one`s programmed, conditioned, point of view. and the tendency of the mind to structure around its own vision.
    So your question about calder is deeper than it seems. In one level, calder has been my nemesis, on a deeper level, he has been my partner in this leela, on a deper level, he has been a whole entertainment for me…
    on a deeper level there is nocalder, no thompson… everything just is…
    It all depends what level i want to tune into.
    So, yes, he has been inmensely helpful.
    Greetings
    anthony thompson

  68. frank says:

    antony says:
    “so your question is deeper than it seems”
    thanks tony.
    i may have spent(allegedly) most of my life in a drugged haze on beaches and “discos”(thanks satya),but you may be surprised that i have also read a few books too,and some of them didnt even have pictures in them!
    i can also ride a bicycle and use rudimentary tools.

    when i said to you that you and christopher christ made a perfect couple,you were angry and “insulted”,
    now you are waxing lyrical about being “on a deeper level,no calder,no thompson,partner in leela….etc”

    you are beginning to sound like that dead guy with the beard.

  69. Anthony Thompson says:

    Aren´t we all essentially a dead guy with a beard?

    Your reference to me and calder was in a different context then. It was my duty to be insulted… part of that level, that leela. That was my part to play.
    Now another context, another level, yes partership. I did not exist before Calder. So in a way he created me as this web character who defends osho and writes in forums.

    Tony…Ph. D.

  70. Anuragi says:

    See!!
    This is the intelligence I am talking about.
    thank you Franky, thank you Tony.
    You two are the best representatives of Osho´s work in this forum so far.
    love
    Anuragi

  71. frank says:

    you are right anuragi.
    tony`s got the brains
    and i`ve got the brains and the looks.
    frankie and tony.
    the enlightened rat pack.
    we`re strangers in paradise.
    but more
    much more than this.
    i did it it my way…

  72. Hi everyone

    I have some Osho e-books available for downloading
    free of charge. Love.

    http://www.mediafire.com/paulogaeta

  73. Anthony Thompson says:

    well, i´d like to think i also have the looks.
    A piece of advice frankie. i think the reference to the rat pack and sinatra songs give away, in a way too easy way our age… i would have made a more contemporary musical comment, just to hide the fact that we are around sixty…just in case some young girls read this forum, you know,
    greetings
    anthony

  74. Chetna says:

    What a disappointment! :)

  75. frank says:

    hey tony,
    no need to hide your age.
    you`re only as pretty as you feel!
    and were all going to be dead guys with beards sooner or later!
    in any case,`young girls`,(under 45?)especially ones into gurus and spiritual stuff aren`t always so crazy for the rumpy-pumpy hoochie-coochie jiggy jiggy thing ,they just want a thoughtful sensitive intelligent wrinkly guy with a beard and a phd whose been around the block a bit and sounds like he knows what he`s talking about.
    so,assuming you`ve got a decent sized wedge and a half-decent philosophy to expound,i think you might still be in with a chance of pulling,yet.
    working on your chatup lines is still important:.
    “hey baby,fancy a ride down to the memory clinic in my turbocharged mobility scooter?”
    is probably one to avoid,but
    seeing as how sinatra and tony bennet have never been so big with kids as now, “fancy coming up to my place and checking out my collection of original-issue rat pack vinyls” could be just the ticket to seriously impress…

  76. Anthony Thompson says:

    I´ll definetely go for your last suggestion. actually I just re-bought vinyl record player… It is groovy to own one now. who would have thought about that when cassetts came along and we felt relieved from listening to scratched records.

    any way, the right number is under 35.
    amussed greetings
    anthony

  77. Anuragi says:

    Anthony. Under 35? I am 38… do I still qualify?
    I would love to listen to your vinyl records. and you can invite Frankie too.
    I can imagine an interesting evening listening to old songs, a glass a of red wine and your stories… I am sure they are extremely interesting… yea, a sixty-something PH. D.Psychology professor and an old hippy like Frankie… and me.
    yea, I´d go for that one!!
    love
    Anuragi

  78. frank says:

    there you go tony,
    what did i tell you?
    instant result!
    i`ll leave you to it now.
    i`ll just make an excuse like,er i can`t make it cos i`ve got to write a thesis for the open university on:
    “lsd,chillum-smoking and the home fabrication of tye-dye t shirts i the early 1970s”

  79. Alok john says:

    Anuragi writes

    “I feel absolutely ashamed about the answer that Dr. Nisha gave to Anthony Thompson. I do not feel represented at all by that way of being a sannyasin. As Anthony rightly points out it is full of superstitions…

    …We can say he is alive symbolically, in us, in nature, in our hearts or in our meditation; but to claim that he is not dead is simply scary.
    Anthony, representing, educated, intelligent sannyasins…”

    Anthony writes

    “meditation has nothing to do with believing a dead enlightened master is guiding you”

    I’m am MA Oxford and we have our conditioning in the West as well, essentially from Newton that all there is is empty space and particles. This is still most peoples’ conditioning in the West although it has been proved inadequate and contradictory since the 1930s and quantum physics.
    I would hesitate to call what Dr Nisha writes only superstition. I think a bit less arrogance is called for. We don’t know what consciousness is, and once you get down to fundamental physics, matter is pretty weird as well.

    Why not say we don’t know, or maybe, which I think is the reality.

  80. Anthony Thompson says:

    Alok. I quote myself froma previous post: “the truth i do not know what happens to anybody´s consciousness once they are dead. I Do not have any experience about that. regarding osho´s consciousness guiding me from the beyond… the truth is i would not be able to distinguish that from my own mind projection and wishful thinking fantasies. so, I have to be honest that i do not know about that.
    As far as throwing some quotes to back up my position as Nisha did… here we go… more evangelical than ever.!!
    ” once I am gone there is no need to make any special place for me. I want to be forgotten and forgiven. I do not want to be a hindrance for my people. I do not want them to cling to me. I want them to grow on their own, to walk their own path… a real master always frees his people from him. When I dead. at least let me go.”
    The last testament

  81. Alok john says:

    Anthony writes
    . regarding osho´s consciousness guiding me from the beyond… the truth is i would not be able to distinguish that from my own mind projection and wishful thinking fantasies. so, I have to be honest that i do not know about that.

    Yes but just because you cannot distinguish “Osho’s guidance” from your own mind, does not mean no one can make this distinction. I just think we should not say such a thing is “impossible.”

  82. Anthony Thompson says:

    I have never said that was impossible. what i said was that it was beyond the range of my experience.
    My point of discussion was related to someone saying Osho was not dead. And that is simply not true. The man is dead, now if he is somwhere else guiding someone… about that I do not know.
    My own experience with meditation and altered states of consciousness is that there is no separete individuality beyond the ego. therefore I do not know what could survive death with a” personal” or individual component on it.
    Besides, Osho himself said he was going to dissolve ( whatever that means) in existence and there was no osho separate from the whole once he was gone.
    So, I do not know.
    Greetings
    Anthony

  83. amrito says:

    Alok says:

    “I would hesitate to call what Dr Nisha writes only superstition. I think a bit less arrogance is called for. We don’t know what consciousness is, and once you get down to fundamental physics, matter is pretty weird as well.”

    Yes, I definately agree, and this is an open-minded approach. I believe what most people were taken aback by was Dr. Nisha’s arrogant way of bringing about a very complicated subject.

    Perhaps she has also become aware of this.

    Anuragi writes:

    “That is why I expressed my concerned about what is being done in the name of Osho´s work in Tapoban.”

    An arrogant person here or there can’t represent an entire Osho meditation movement in Nepal.

    In fact, I’m sure you won’t deny the fact that there are many arrogant people within the Osho Meditation resort.

    Dr. Rudhrag, a well-known Intellectual from South India has written this about his experience in Pune:

    “There is a preferential treatment. There is a transparent sale tag in all the introductions. There is falseness in the initiation into meditation, and there is an unmistakable arrogance in the attitude. I had gone the first day, and gone through all the compulsory (though unnecessary in my opinion) routines- which included watching a video which was trying to teach how and how not to blow one’s nose!”

    he goes on to say:

    “That was it. I did not feel like talking to them. It was their place, their show. They can sell daily or season tickets. they can make, break or change thier rules.They can charge you for even using their toilets if they want, but the price of visiting the place again was self-respect. It was not the extra few hundred rupees that were going to be paid, it was the attitude that made me wince. I could not afford to part with my most valued asset, my self-respect. Does this mean Rajneesh is bad? How can he be responsible for what his current followers do? Well, I can say Rajneesh being good or bad cannot be decided by how badly his current gang behaves, but these are the guys who are supposed to show him to the new world, and going by what he had implied in one of his grandiose declarations that he is eternal, and his spirit is eternal, his spirit is certainly not managing the institution.”

    http://rudhran.wordpress.com/

    Now, arrogance is everywhere. And right now, I have met many Sannyasins who have taken such an arrogant attitude it makse me nautious.

    In fact, Sw. Anand Arun was one of the very few Sannyasins whom do not come accross as arrogant.

    I had the personal privelage of taking Swami Arun around different places in Canada, and anyone he met with had nothing but respect for the man and for Osho. And he never did this by claiming Osho as the last saviour or the most superiour religious figure, in fact, it was due to Sw. Arun’s respect for all spiritual paths that makes Osho Tapoban a very special place.

    Love,
    Amrito

  84. Alok john says:

    Amrito, in some defence of arrogant people in Pune…

    People with often no power in their home countries are given power in Pune.

    As you know, power without awareness, corrupts. So these people are given power, they can see themselves go on power trips, they can see themselves getting bossy, maybe rude. And they can gain awareness of what they are doing without any harm coming to someone. So Pune is really a mystery school in that sense.

    Far better they should go on a power trip and learn about power in Pune than in The White House or in charge of a business or family where they could really harm people.

  85. Alok john says:

    PS A video on how to blow your nose is not such a bad idea. People get terrible colds in Pune, and if a few precautions can reduce the incidence of colds, this is wothwhile

  86. swami says:

    Dr. Rudhrag ‘s
    arrogdance.
    arrogant dance!

    how is the appeal going about the faled trademark claim in the american trademark office?
    any one know anything?

  87. Alok john says:

    Actually Amrito, you are right in general about arrogant sannyasins. I hardly ever go to sannyasin events any more because I tire of the know-all attitude.
    I think one reason for the arrogance is that so many sannyasins do new age therapies as well like est-forum-landmark which build up the ego.

    I expect it will take the forthcoming economic/military defeats in the West to destroy that arrogance

  88. swami says:

    you sound a bit world weary alok john..

    perhaps a refresher course is in order..do you remember a time in your life when you sang and danced and had thoughts only about the moment ……a time when you couldnt have cared less about forcasting imminant forthcoming doom and visualising some evil arrogance in the “West” that was at any moment about to be destroyed by economic and military defeat….

    not all sannyasins are the same ……..in fact true arrogance doesnt even exist .. it is more likely to be a reflection and a cover for insecurity.

    as we get dissilusioned with life and our personal situations…as sannyasins it is unworthy of us to reflect our personal stagnation on to sannyas.

  89. Anthony Thompson says:

    …and as a psychotherapist…other people´s arrogance is a problem only if I have a deep would of feeling inferior… otherwise if someone claims to know it all or being the king of the universe is none of my problem… his trip.
    the guy who went to pune must have been an indian professor who felt offended by westeners In HIS own country telling him how to blow his nose… come on! India has thousand of years of tradition in nose cleaning… we do not need any one to tell us that!
    anthony

  90. Anthony Thompson says:

    sorry i meant wound

  91. Alok john says:

    Swami, Unfortunately I am a survivor of extremely severe childhood abuse and there is no time in my life in when I sang and danced and had thoughts only about the moment. You can read about me in a book by Morven Fyfe, once Ma Lola from Glasgow, advertised on amazon.

    “as we get dissilusioned with life and our personal situations…as sannyasins it is unworthy of us to reflect our personal stagnation on to sannyas.”

    I agree it is possible that I am just “projecting arrogance” on to (mainly Western) sannyasins. But maybe they are objectively arrogant. This is a complex call to see the difference between projection and reality. You have your own projections as well. Amrito found many sannysins arrogant.

    I really do think many first generation sannyasins hold mixed belief systems, some beliefs derived from Osho, and some from new age movements which are very influential in alternative circles in the West. I think the “arrogance” comes from the new age beliefs floating around.

    Okay military defeat might be a long way off but many commentators say the current economic slump is not merely a blip but heralds a permanent shift of economic power from West to East. Remember the West murdered Osho. It is not a cool idea to murder enlightened masters. Look what happened to the Jews. Interestingly the Jews suffered military defeat and expulsion from Jerusalem only approx thirty years after rejecting Jesus and handing him over to the Romans to murder him. To me the slump/credit crunch feels like we are seeing history being made.

    Anthony : “…and as a psychotherapist…other people´s arrogance is a problem only if I have a deep would of feeling inferior… otherwise if someone claims to know it all or being the king of the universe is none of my problem… his trip.”

    Yes but they are not fun to be around. Often not helpful or healing to be around.

    Re the Indian Professor, surely he should realize that he might not need the video on nose blowing but others might. New people are coming every day. The management has not got time to distinguish between who needs to see the nose blowing video and who does not. He is only being asked to watch an introductory video.

    “the guy who went to pune must have been an indian professor who felt offended by westeners In HIS own country telling him how to blow his nose”

    Yes but Osho was against ego identifications with nations, even India.

  92. dr Nisha says:

    Amrito you are a Narcissistic. You have a grand delusion, so you feel yurself Superior and think others as Arrogant,Have a traetment dude.
    love, Sueravi.

  93. Alok john says:

    In the mystery school you get your ego hit. The professor from India received his first hit but did not realize it.

  94. swami says:

    thanks for your honest and open comments alok john.
    I did know about the book and the abuse.

    Love and Let-go!

    best wishes to you.

  95. swami says:

    just some ideas…something to try……..

    my opinions and your opinions ..
    we are like travellers moving around in fog ..with poor eyesight looking around for the correct spectacles to help us to see clearly ..picking up different pairs and revealing different realities … until the day we find the pair that gives perfect vision we are all in the fog and we fight each other over who sees the clearest through the fog ..
    Try to accept the fog ..say to yourself ..this is my opinion viewed through my fog! and accept that the others that you bump into in the fog are wearing different spectacles to you and so see things a little differently….
    when you bump into someone in the fog say to yourself …..
    hello my friend.. I love you.. we are one .
    I accept you and your vision and your fog and the fact that you are wearing different spectacles to me.
    It is the deeper cosmic realities that are meaningful ..not how we see things differently with our spectacles through our fog.
    love to you all.

  96. Alok john says:

    Just to rabbit on a bit more about the mixed belief systems of old sannyasins…

    Another part of the belief system is often an absolute rejection of the Judeo-Christian beliefs they were brought up with. So anything goes. And if they do not do enough meditation to raise their consciousness, then they may be left with arrogant egos.

  97. frank says:

    thats a fogging good philosophy you`ve got there,swami.
    you are right.
    we are all foggers lost in the fogging fog,so when someone bangs into you cos they dont know where they`re fogging going,dont just tell them to fog off,cos you`re probably as fogged up as they are.

    if we can accept that we are all just fogging foggers,we might just be able to metamorphose into mystics in the mist.

  98. frank says:

    poor old professor red-rag
    he went to pune and all he got was bull!
    mind you,learning how to blow your nose is a useful skill.
    it`s not something to be sniffed at.

  99. frank says:

    anthony says:
    “as a psychotherapist …arrogance in others is only a problem only if i have a deep wound of feeling inferior.”

    so,for example,the racial arrogance of the nazis was only a problem because of the inferiority feelings of their victims?

    sieg heil! herr general antonius von tomaschen (waffen ss)
    it makes me laugh,zese indian people `offended` because ve tell zem vot to do in `their` country,
    hohoho
    you too,ya?

  100. swami says:

    hi frank.
    you appear to have a delightful propensity to non seriousness that is cackleingly contagious ..perhaps a title for a book or a guidance group…don’t fumble in the fog…find your inner flashlight and metamorphasise into a mystic in the mist!

    couple of words there I have made up ..but hey..why not!

  101. swami says:

    day one of the guidance group… all form a line and rope yourselves together ..the one at the front is blindfolded and as an experiment to reveal how trusting you are you all have to follow him…like … the blind leading the seeing!…through the fog.

  102. amrito says:

    Hello folkes!!

    Well the reason I posted the article about Dr. Rudhran’s blog was not to bash the Osho resort, but to show that arrogance exists everywhere!

    Here is a completely different experience from some who went to Pune :

    Dennis, “Giving OSHO a chance”

    “I went to explore the premises and what I found was the Garden of Eden; the closest thing to heaven on earth. The Ashram is spread over 20+ acres of sprawling green trees, catfish ponds, rocky waterfalls, stone pathways and beautiful architecture.”

    He goes on to say:

    ” The people inside represent every color, creed and country in the world. I have since met many Russians, Germans, French, Australian, English- you name it; all here to take in the beauty, tranquility and of course, camaraderie. I am however, one of the few Americans here and am enjoying being a yankee rep. ”

    and critically:

    ” The best part for me however, is the beautiful people I meet in and around the Ashram and I’m speaking of inner, not outer beauty”

    “Anyway, after my first day, and what I believe will be a life long love affair with this Ashram”

    http://dennisinsouthasia.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/29/

  103. Alok john says:

    To Swami,

    Thanks for your compassionate response to my “disclosure” of severe childhood abuse.

    So often the response I receive is silence, both in and out of the sannyasin world.

  104. frank says:

    it is interesting to note that this guy positive dennis,that amrito quotes.refers to the resort as `the ashram`
    well,despite the best efforts and protestations of the ic and their rationalist psychotheralogicians,eg tony,of the “i can`t see the back of my own head so you can`t prove its there” school,
    at “deoshofication”,
    people still see an ashram.

    realistically,most resorts that you will find on the tourist circuit are not liberally sprinkled with guys with apostolic beards trying to pass themselves off as diy zenmasters.
    `zennis` is a good invention,but `zhaving` would be even more effective in many cases.
    the robes are reminiscent of a resort,but one in the throes of a permanent toga-party,whilst the white rogue brotherhood has unfortunate sexist and racist overtones,the sort of thing usually associated with the mindset of good ol` ashrams` and not up-to-date 21st century resorts.

    ok,they`ve got a bar,and if you`ve got the cash and the kudos,you can pull,,have a dance and make plans and cut deals after dark over a few drinks etc,but the rest of it is definitely an ashram,with people disappearing up their own base chakras with predictable regularity as they struggle up the greasy pole of enlightenment .

  105. Chetna says:

    I often heard it to be called CASHram!

  106. Alok john says:

    Yes it is silly isn’t it, just because they call it a resort, some people really think, or say they think, it is a resort.

  107. swami says:

    lets allow people to call the res-ash-com whatever they like …
    personally I like alok’s idea…the mystery school.
    when I arrived the sign said …Rajneesh Mandir.
    at that time it actually was all a combination of all the names it is now known by..a resort .. a commune ..a ashram …
    big changes were when children were restricted access and when numbers of people actually living on the campus were restricted ….all of this is really just part of the rebranding process that began after the near sucsess of the ranch experiment..
    thinking about that …was a ranch …like with cowboys and cattle…all of these labels and our biased projections of our ego dreams are good for one thing at least ..light hearted amusement .

  108. swami says:

    that’s just the biased projection of your ego dream!

  109. Prem Vineeta says:

    how lucky we are connected to this place…. in whatever form…it is enough in itself

  110. veegee says:

    hi… i wound up here reading this thread because i got it in a google hit from a search for “sannyasins rude arrogant.”

    i have experienced rudeness arrogance and worse from sannyasins here in maui, hawaii. i personally decided that everyone was like that to me because of unresolved issues around sheela and osho… and friends have suggested the concept of pride being the last sin to go on the way to sainthood…

    well i scarcely think these sannyasins are very far upon the path to sainthood because some have actually attacked me in political or social ways. i really do not have a clue why they are all so… destructive to nonsannyasins. is it just this maui group?

  111. veegee says:

    >>>Osho said about the “Sheela-fiasco”: “Sheela could exist because you allowed her to exist”, which I doubt that many sannyasins have really heard. After the “Sheela fiasco”, Osho also said something like: “I wanted to give you a taste of fascism”.<<<

    as far as i am concerned that says it all… osho himself is denying any responsibility for sheela… actually trying to turn it around to be a good thing…
    i doubt the people who got hurt or almost got hurt or almost died in the town were considered by osho… alla sannyasins are on a wrong path because your leader was too

  112. veegee says:

    and i just would like to add that i havent met a sannyasin yet who i would like to be friends with or hang out with or anything… totally dysfunctional rude cruel destructive snotty little brats