Osho World Press Statement: Let Truth be Revealed – Demand Osho Followers
As Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict harassed Osho in USA, South America and many European countries during the eighties; 31 years later he has resigned due to mounting scandals in the Vatican and the Catholic Church.
“There is enough evidence that as Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict harassed Osho and prevented him from staying in over 20 countries. This needs to be investigated thoroughly to reveal the truth. Millions of Osho disciples across the globe want the truth to come out.” said Swami Chaitanya Keerti, a spokesperson of Osho World Foundation, New Delhi.
Osho has declared, “There is every possibility that the Pope (at the time, John Paul II) suggested that I should be thrown out of America, that my commune should be completely destroyed, because this was the first time that a man from the East had taken so many Christians out of the Christian fold. And particularly intelligent, young, educated, sophisticated people… professors, doctors, scientists, electronic engineers, Nobel Prize winners, artists, musicians….”
Giving the background of this harassment, Osho says, “The American government harassed me simply because of Christian pressure — in which there is every possibility that the Pope’s hand was involved, because Ronald Reagan had met the pope just a few days before I was arrested. He had just come back from the Vatican.” (The Sword and the Lotus, Ch4, Q3)
In this context, it is significant to note that before Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II named him ‘Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithful’ or the Vatican’s modern inquisitorial office in 1981, responsible for opposing Osho in USA and many other countries.
“Now 28 years after hounding Osho out of the USA and 21 other countries, Pope Benedict resigned due to his deteriorated strength of the body and the mind he claims. Perhaps he gave up due to scandals involving his butler revealing the nefarious activities in the Vatican, and more importantly, the scandals about child sex abuse, money laundering and financial irregularities of the Vatican,” said Swami Keerti.
In fact, the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS) in Brussels issued a press statement claiming an upcoming action by a European government to issue an arrest warrant against Ratzinger and a public lien against Vatican property and assets by Easter.
“It is most pertinent to note that the legacy of every Pope is soon forgotten after his death or will be forgotten after the resignation in the case of Pope Benedict, but the legacy of Osho in his insights in books and discourses as well as his meditations continues to attract and transform the lives of millions of people today,” said Swami Keerti.
On 1 February 2013, on the basis of evidence supplied by ITCCS’s affiliated Common Law Court of Justice (itccs.org), ITCCS concluded an agreement with representatives of a European nation and its courts to secure an arrest warrant against Joseph Ratzinger, aka Pope Benedict XVI, for crimes against humanity and ordering a criminal conspiracy. This arrest warrant was to be delivered to the office of the ‘Holy See’ in Rome on 15 February 2013. It allowed the nation in question to detain Ratzinger as a suspect in a crime if he entered its sovereign territory. Fearing all this, it is no wonder that Pope Benedict resigned.
The Vatican’s involvement in harassing Osho was declared a fact on 24 December 1989 by Ashok Row Kavi, an Indian columnist for the Bombay Sunday Mail. According to him, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger “is known to have operated behind the scenes in the expulsion of Rajneesh from America.” The information allegedly came from someone “very close” to Ratzinger, “the man who controls the Vatican’s policy against other religions.”
It is no coincidence that American President Ronald Reagan met the Pope in the Vatican just a few days before Osho had to leave Rajneeshpuram. After his arrest, Osho was poisoned by the American authorities while in prison. After extensive medical tests in Pune, it was determined that his ill health was due to this poisoning, wrote Kavi.
In his well-researched book, ‘A Passage to America’ Max Brecher (Bombay, Book Quest 1993) reveals that after Osho left the USA, a motion was introduced by the right-wing Christian Democrats into the political committee of the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France. The motion called on ministers “meeting in the framework of European political cooperation to do their utmost to ensure that the Bhagwan Leader [Osho] is no longer allowed to settle in any Community Member State.” Further, it expected all member states “to take measures provided for in their legal systems to prevent his [Osho] residence on their territory.” The resolution died in committee, but at that time, all these European countries had, already on their own, or so it might seem, taken steps never to allow Osho within their borders, according to Brecher.
For further information, please contact:
Osho World Foundation
BG-09, Ansal Plaza, Khelgaon Marg
New Delhi, Phone: +91 9971992227
Email: contact@oshoworld.com
Excellent informative post, with plenty of strings to follow up for verification.
All the Popes are implicated in American designs, and the Italians ,despite being held by the mama/ il papa balls, (and above the proletarian mass level,) are well informed and very Roman (licentious ) about their deference to all things catholic, Pope John Paul drew up maps of Poland with Reagan , at the time of the new-era-nuke low threshold weapons, which would destroy people not property back in the ’80′s, whilst bombers were prepared for the cruise missiles.
Previously Pope Pius X was used as the canary for heralding Moro’s death by the fascists who had kidnapped and executed him.Pope John Paul via Archbishop Marcinkus , was using Banco Ambrosiano to launder mafia drug money, and supply money to the Nicaraguan contras, via American govt banks in the Caymans ,to the Nicaraguan contras to buy Israeli weapons (work that one out) with Calvi , the bank’s masonic head, being hung with bricks in his pockets under Blackfriars bridge , the masons bridge , and his female secretary being de-fenestrated, just a few days after, to her death from the bank’s HQ. Calvi was about to spill the beans to the Times. Marcinkus was promoted and returned to the protection of the Vatican lands , when the Italian left wing government at the time ordered his presence by warrant in court.
I’ve asked before why, when there is no innate justice that we know about, do we get so upset when there isn’t any temporal one ? Havel claimed ,it was the Devils work, though in truth that was only a consolation for a non church going theist.
The mafia , the church, the corrupt Italian governments. I’m not sure even Beppe Grillo the comedian turned sweep cleaner of this sinister mess , has offered to wander into this ecclesiastical baroque nightmare with any anti papal declarations….but his mate, Dario Fo is a dedicated anarchist , nobel dramatist and anti papist.Watch that space.
Ps some people say all this declared information means I have a definite agenda of promoting my anti-Osho work, and anyone who disagrees with my version of reality gets put on the list of Jacobin Osho Fainthearts, with a call to the Osho metaphysical inquisition pronto, capissh ?
It is most pertinent to note that the legacy of every Pope is soon forgotten after his death or will be forgotten after the resignation in the case of Pope Benedict, but the legacy of Osho in his insights in books and discourses as well as his meditations continues to attract and transform the lives of millions of people today,” said Swami Keerti.
What a puffed-up dodo….
http://www.facebook.com/ArrestThePope
http://catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/politicalassassinations.html
Like many of her generation my mother was prone to delivering cliches. One of them was, ‘If you want know who someone is study their friends.’ Overused it may be but that particulat cliche holds much truth. Applied to Osho and some of the people who formed his inner circle of cronies during ranch times it does not bode too well.
Too much is made of Osho being banned from a lot of countries, in the year after the ranch’s collapse, in the sense that he was outlawed wrongfully. If you don’t see it that way nip out and poison a couple of hundred people and set fire to some government buildings and then go check your popularity ratings down at the local police office. It could be viewed in the light that Osho was fortunate not to end up in a state penitentiary for a few years.
It is warped logic to believe that Osho was a victim for upsetting the status quo in some way and thus adding creedance to him being a great spiritual revolutionary that had heads of state shitting their pants. Who gives a shit if the pope smokes dope, shits in the woods and isn’t a Catholic and he saw to it that Osho was persecuted. What difference does it make to your life right now? None if you have even a little common sense.
Osho was a red hot potato who was viewed on the international scene as a nuisance and very much so after the debacle that was the ranch. It wasn’t his radical ideas that had people worried it was some of the nut cases he surrounded himself with and their criminal actions and downright dangerous behaviour.
Some reading this have spent years with Osho. There is nothing special about you. You aren’t going to change the world very much and really, as the years go passing by, you are probably realizing your common humanity in the sense that you too will have to face ageing, illness and death, and for all you learnt from Osho can you honestly say that you are so much above it all, or existing in some non-attached transcendent space? I doubt it. The wheel goes turning round and round…welcome to your latest incarnation on planet plongo.
I suggest that if anyone reading any of the above article finds it very important that they nip out immediately and find themselves something resembling ‘A Life’.
Apart from that, the world is moving fast and minor events that happened twenty five years ago don’t carry much clout today. I mean to say, 60 odd years ago the Nazis were stuffing millions of people in gas ovens. Today Germany is the country many Europeans, Jewish also, go to find a decent job and lifestyle. So, what to say of a few crazies in orange who got a bit carried away with themselves and a jar of salmonela? No big deal. Osho’s cronies fucked up big time during ranch times,so its completly daft to make out that he was some kind of martyr. He wasn’t. Crucified by Ronald Reagan’s America. Come of it. Osho was not that big a player on the world stage. He may have been delusional enough to believe that he was. Life goes on and its history now and of interest to very few people.
still after making lasagna and focaccia for dinner (really) I thought it was nice to round it off with some italian costumed drama… its the robes .. i just am fascinated by men in smocks, red robes and funny hats…
and one of my uncles used to pay the mafia off with pacchetti or bundles of lira, ….once when i was in sicily….
Funny hats? Reminds me of someone.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/537048_4768080717664_1670844173_n.jpg
nuns blow dope after hearing of Pope’s dental treatment by crazed whistle blowing consciousness specialist….
Nice one Lokesh! I think you have definitely hit the proverbial nail right on its head! The idea that Osho was poisoned by US authorities, has to put it mildly, always sounded extremely exaggerated and whimsical ( read fabricated). It has been used either consciously or unconsciously in my opinion, as a means of drawing attention away from the criminal shenanigans that you have outlined in your message. Of course it has also been used for many other purposes too, but I won’t go into them here. Quite clearly Osho and his cronies brought all the trouble incurred at the Ranch and after, on their own heads as you have rightly pointed out.
Delusions of grandeur e.g. the martydom story of Osho being a major threat to world order and therefore persecuted by ‘world’ authorities, are I believe symptomatic of paranoid schizophrenia!
Cool, Ashok. I have one Catholic sannyasin friend who insists that everything Osho did, including the ranch, was a device for his disciples to awaken. Osho was really quite brilliant at times but not so brilliant he could have cooked all the nonsense up on a conscious level as a deliberate attempt to awaken people from the slumber of ignorance. That is simply impossible.
That said, much of what Osho did, including letting nutters run the show, can be taken as a great learning tool. Many who were involved with Osho over the years learned tough lessons about what it actually means to surrender to an authoratarian figure etc. Osho demonstrated perfectly how much of the Indian guru trip is a sham. That’s not to say that all gurus are conmen. Some are genuine, although relatively rare. I have no idea how conscious Osho was about his actions and the far reaching consequences of those actions. For me that is not very important today. What I find important is the lessons learned. On that level Osho was a true master… in terms of demonstrating the many pitfalls that pockmark the spiritual path when it comes to getting involved with a master.
Lokesh says:
I have one Catholic sannyasin friend who insists that everything Osho did, including the ranch, was a device for his disciples to awaken. Osho was really quite brilliant at times but not so brilliant he could have cooked all the nonsense up on a conscious level as a deliberate attempt to awaken people from the slumber of ignoranc …
The pertinent question that nobody asked Sheela was why did she buy a property that had no permission for more buildings? When you send somebody to buy a car you are assuming that they will bring back a car with four wheels … doh. If Osho was aware of this (and why shouldn’t he be) then we were boiling frogs from the start. None of this will be changing anyone’s life today but layers of complexity are always open to re-examination.
Osho was not aware of the zoneing laws, at least in the beginning. When Osho was first flown to the ranch Sheela gave instructions to the pilot to steer clear of beauriful areas so that Osho would not be able to see that the ranch was not the most fertile of places to plant a commune. With friends like that he was in no need of enemies, but he got them anyway. Sometimes the hunter gets captured by the game, especially when wild cats are roaming the plains.
…they say that when padmasambhava took the buddhist teachings way up into himalayas,he rode into tibet on the back of a wild tiger…..
“he who rides a tiger cannot dismount”
——-chinese proverb
Lokesh wrote: “I have one Catholic sannyasin friend who insists that everything Osho did, including the Ranch, was a device to awaken his disciples”.
Yep! Unfortunately, I have come across that kind of nonsense too, and it obviously reaks of omnipotence, infallibility and the elevation of Osho to being some kind of deity – all very depressing and a clear indication of the ‘god delusion’ from which some in the sannyasin movement suffer from. Osho was a human being who was perfect only in his imperfection, just like the rest of us. Like you say Lokesh he was at times brilliant and by the same token sometimes foolish – we need to look at the man from a critical point of view to appreciate both the good and the bad and perhaps learn something from his experience. Any implicit or explicit comparison of him and his life to a well-known martyr like Jesus Christ, is to my mind to enter into the world of primitive belief and moreover politics -and we know what that’s all about, don’t we?
When Sunny kill scores of Shias it is no crime, just internal news, but when Some corollary damage happens through NATO, it is a crime against religion and civilization and destabilising effect on Nut countries like Afghanistan and Neighbours…
Same psychological trend emerges in all the groupies collected together under a broken roof. Osho World Chieftains are also expert in it, Playing big shots but with toy guns.
Pope Benedict was on the helm of Catholic affairs for years, did Osho World wrote anything about harassment of Osho, did they gather people for demonstrations against Pope or mobilised media attention?
And Why Hindu by birth and Hindus by belief, Osho World people, and why not Christians by birth and fucked up Christians by belief Osho foundation people are raising a finger of protest?
Nice analysis there shants, using the sword of awareness which cuts forward and back…
which got me thinking.. which is always dangerous….
the need to create a target…everyone needs a target (lol)…. all revolutions become fossilized by targets or objects.. rather than the enquiry itself, what could have been just a joyful enquiry with its own momentum , in subject to subject.. becomes instead subject to object…institutionalized objectives…..and the unlived part starts taking revenge, finding others who were to blame for its own insufficiencies in the periods of suppression…. hate becomes the looking back in anger phenomenon, with nationalism waiting in the wings for those who become disillusioned by the promises of unfulfilled revolutionary hope….
nationalism , beliefs , sects… use the word appropriate
the immaterial hope, the transcendent source part of ourselves which is beyond us,which is our otherness, is simply betrayed, discarded….
then deluded vanity, the separate stuff which turns to all sorts of ‘isms’, formed out of the negating ego, starts looking for scapegoats for why life was mired inunspoken, acceptable,cozy,dissatisfaction, dead-pendency, and thus recreates the same indolence, and unwittingly the same mire ad infinitum
When I think of these things i think of how seriously the French republic takes itself still, based on a disgusting fanatic revolution that fell apart under its first own bright insights, to be rewarded by nobodys with nothing…..or lenin, or christs disciples, or the american revolution..or
because it’s always a misunderstanding of the origins of that freshness….
our own psychospiritual revolutionary intentions only can have residency in our own meticulous integrity, without ready made formulaic repose in trusted salvation or oppositely ,the avoidance of our own ability to negotiate the same unchartered waters that we once found fascinating.
Which is why the answer as always lies somewhere in the gap between systematic arrangements we would like to make…. and for which i have said before what my own credo is… lost somewhere in the annals of sn history…
why all this is so, and why there is the innate ability to perceive,enlightened perception, coexisting in tandem with a consummate relative innate injustice is a question that lulls me into sleep….
by confronting it , in some form even here, of admittedly synthetic dialogue, awakens my own thirst again. i may not get very far, but
Vita in vitro non est.
if/when the pope gets arrested and the catholic church collapses,it will be due to opposition from those who have genuinely suffered from it,been disgusted by it and engaged with it head on in their lives.
not by being lectured by a puffed-up little neo-hindu who was himself a personal lackey to the self-proclaimed pope of rajneeshism,sheela,and a main propagandist for a cult mentality that wants to sweep the whole criminal ranch story,(for the good of oshos vision) under the carpet,a la vatican…
that aint going to be any help at all.
bits of the catholic church were collapsing on liberal bishop’s heads before the election conclave in 1978, so haphazardly, and with such regularity it makes one think should we look up to god or should we call in a good brickie…
“The day before Paul VI’s funeral, Belgium radio announced that Cardinal Leon Joseph Suenens, the Primate of Belgium, had been killed by a falling section of an aging building facade in Brussels. The radio report, which was based on eyewitnesses of the event, was premature.” (Le Soir Brussels 10 Aug 78) It had, in fact, been a visiting French bishop that had been killed. It had been that the incident had occurred near the cardinal’s palace and that the bishop had been wearing black garb topped off with a red zucchetto that caused witnesses to mistake him for the cardinal. Of course, if this was true, that witnesses on the ground made such a misjudgment, then it would have been likely that anyone on the roof of the building (aiming for the Cardinal) would have made the same mistake. Suenens, of course, being the recognized leader of liberalism in the Catholic world at the time would be one of the most influential cardinals in the upcoming conclave. . . A week before the conclave was to begin . . . Cardinal Suenens (again) barely escaped death when a small section of a frieze fell from a Vatican building narrowly missing him and his secretary by inches. (‘ L’Osservatore Romano’, 22 Aug 78 & La Stampa 25 Aug 78)
as in all good God-chuckling, concrete-chucking pantos , ‘he’s behind you’ becomes.. ‘he’s above you’
oh and by the way the winning number of the italian lottery in the week of John Paul’s 2nd natural death (john paul 1st was murdered), …… were the birthdate of said dead pope…
true story..
the old woman who placed the winning numbers became a multi millionaire..
In terms of morality Osho did not flee (the Ranch) or resign his position but called in the authorities to investigate any wrong doings and exonerate him. Were his actions the actions of a guilty person?
On the other hand god’s bulldog Der Panzerkardinal Ratzinger …
“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children.” … “It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a ‘better than’ and a ‘worse than’. Nothing is good or bad in itself.” – Pope Benedict to his child-abusing bishops and priests in 2010 in the Regia Hall, Vatican.” (Sign of the Times, 21 Dec. 2010)
It doesn’t matter how you view it … Osho had wild dogs after him. And it’s good to know.
Bodhi, I believe you are mistaken when you say that Osho did not flee the ranch. He was in a jet, in which he claimed to have no idea about its destination. Oh, says the customs man, here’s a bag full of expensive watches and wads of hundred dollar bills. Come on Bodhi, if Osho was not fleeing you must believe him to be completely stupid and he wasn’t, no matter how out of it he happened to be at the time.
Osho had a good sense for which way the wind was blowing. Hence he took it easy on Islam. Taking pot shots at the pope was a safe bet along with the likes of Mother Theresa. The Prophet, no way. Osho knew the shit was beginning to hit the fan big time on the ranchero and he also knew some of that shit was his. He did what any healthy bandito would do, got out of Dodge quick.
Osho was fond of saying, ‘nobody needs to tell you to jump out the window when the house is on fire’. He was speaking from experience and he knew it was time to jump out of the window for sure. I’d have done the same. No need to cry over spilt milk, boys, get out there and milk another holy cow. Moooooo!
whether the causes were spiritual or legal…
for sure, osho was a bandito.
and also, for sure, the gringo posse was after him!
governments are,amazingly,just as paranoid as cultmembers
and waste enormous time and energy on that.
did you hear that one that came out in the uk just the other day…that the authorities had infiltrated eco-protesters with undercover cops who shacked up with some of the female protesters,pursuing steady relationships with them for up to 6 years…?
we`re talking neo-hippy road protester type stuff,here….
unbelievable..
and dont forget the battle of the beanfield.
that was `86, too.
the anglo-saxon peoples have got a james bond fixation,
and,unfortunately, osho put in a pretty passable shift as “dr.evil”…
dictatorial yet whimsical foreigner with his own private kingdom….
funny accent,ssscary ssspeakin sssstyle….
surrounded by beautiful women hanging on every word….
his own state-of-the-art private army….
male subordinates willing to go to any length to take over the world…
it was a bloody good movie,i was on the edge of my seat,
altho` the ending seems a bit predictable,in retrospect…..
Doctor Yes, great movie. Ben Kingsly was great in the part. I thought Dolly Pairton was great as the love interest. Loved Lady Ga Ga as M. Shiva as Bond was not as good as Sean Connery, even though he does have a Scottish accent. Loved the car chase through the hills of Oregon, when Doctor Yes is listening to ZZ Top’s ‘Smart Dressed Man’ and in the middle of it he adjusts his wooly hat in the rear view mirror before switching oh his Roller’s turbo jet thrusters and lifts of into the sky. ‘I can still hear the music…
‘Top coat, top hat,
I don’t worry coz my wallet’s fat.
Black shades, white gloves,
Lookin’ sharp and lookin’ for love.
They come runnin’ just as fast as they can
Coz’ every girl’s crazy ’bout a sharp dressed man.
some of the dialogue from dr.no was strangely prophetic too…..
dr no: the americans are fools.i offered my services. they refused.so did the east.now they can both pay for their mistakes
bond: world domination.the same old dream.our asylums are full of people who think they`re napoleon.or god
dr.no: east, west, just points on a compass.each as stupid as the other.
Lokesh says:
>> Bodhi, I believe you are mistaken when you say that Osho did not flee the ranch. He was in a jet, in which he claimed to have no idea about its destination.
That was much afterwards when it became obvious that ‘the authorities’ were not interested in anything else other than getting to Osho.
Also now it’s plain to see that that the agenda was not merely to get him out of the US but also to make sure than his only final destination will be India … if only there was the internet then …
Its all sewaqge water under the bridges of Babylon. Can’t say it sparks too much interest on my part. ‘Homeland’ is far more interesting.
Dyslectic prize winning spelling mistakes ?
Well…… when one famous dyslectic sign writer in the bristol centre went self employed touting for work for the post oregon period ‘get out there realities of life back in the west time’….
…. he was satisfied he had completed a grand job on a van complete with pretty airbrush imagery .The centre leader, one of my ex’s , awaited payment from said van owner….
The payment was missed so she rang up to enquire …
‘Where’s the payment’ she enquired ‘for the sign on your van ?’
Payment ? the voice on the other end testily replied, ‘I’m the joke of Bristol ,everywhere I go people ask; ‘ what does a Fur-Nature Shop sell , woolly chairs and tables ?’
‘Ah yes, sorry’ , click,……
”A**mo, A**mo…………why didn’t you use a ……..dictionary…..!!!!!????? ”
Konpale Phir phoot Aai,
Shakh par, kehna uuse
Woh Na samjha hain,
NA samjhega,Magar
Kehna Usse…
When Osho landed in Mumbai after not getting refuge in many of the countries, His first series of talks in Hindi was given the name ” Konpale phir phoot Aayi”. Roughly translated it means, ” Branches have sprouted again”.
Then he renders first two lines of the gazal-
Branches have sprouted again,
Please tell him,
He has not understood, neither he will understand,
still you tell him!
During last three years of His life, Osho has given all. When He was not sick, two times a day discourses, going from Bhagwan Shree to Osho, and finally leading house full gathering into gibberish, feeling contented to see His people.
In my opinion, best homage to Osho is not to point finger towards the followers of old religions but to show the flowering of new spirituality. On this front, we have failed.
Yesterday more than two third Swiss citizens have Stamped JA to the people’s initiative against Rip off by the Mangers through their exuberant bonuses and diamond hand shakes.(Volksinitiative gegen die Abzockerei).
Surely all the top politicians from all parties joined hands and pockets together to defeat people’s initiative but results are astonishing. Switzerland is perhaps the only country of the world, where direct democracy is applied and implemented.
Compassionate Capitalism and Direct Democracy; these two concepts are waiting for their time. People on the earth deserve this…
20 years before it was looking we, the Osho sannyasins will bring the cutting edge change in the societies around us…Just 20 years ago..Now sannyas cannot happen even in next 2000 years!
Sprouted tree which is cut can grow again but not when Tarmac is spread over it.
Shantam:
Compassionate Capitalism and Direct Democracy; these two concepts are waiting for their time. People on the earth deserve this…
20 years before it was looking we, the Osho sannyasins will bring the cutting edge change in the societies around us…Just 20 years ago..Now sannyas cannot happen even in next 2000 years!
SD:
Do the people on the Earth really deserve this? How would you know, Shantam? Isn’t the truth that we get exactly what’s coming to us, ie ‘what we deserve’, at every single moment of our lives?
Anyway, what’s all this about “cutting edge change in the societies around us”? It’s more than enough for us to invoke or ‘midwife’ “cutting edge change” within our stupid selves, let alone ‘out there’. Isn’t it?
Or are you already coming from such “cutting edge change” within your own being? Are you ‘cut-and-dried’, perhaps? Doubt it somehow, judging by your posts, dripping with incoherence and sentimentality.
Perhaps you’re someone who’s lost his way and now looks outside for so-called (non-existent) ‘communal (in the widest sense of the word) solutions’? That’s how you appear to me, anyway.
Shantam says, ’20 years before it was looking we, the Osho sannyasins will bring the cutting edge change in the societies around us.’
That’s a bit blunt.
Run away soldiers cannot think what kind of arsenal was on the way to the boarder post.
Alas..wrong handling blew the post away..
Run away soldiers have proven lucky..Lucky by chance or default!
http://www.bild.de/news/inland/ehe-drama/blutbad-im-meditationszentrum-29348742.bild.html
Similar news is at http://www.oshonews.com
Swami kills Ma and then oneself.. In newsroom jargon, latest Murder Suicide story; first of its kind as this time story is being played by sannyasins…
“Apparently Sitaro, who was 46 years old, had a history of violent offenses and was a peace activist…”
You really couldn’t make it up, could you?!
shantam prem says:
>> In newsroom jargon, latest Murder Suicide story; first of its kind as this time story is being played by sannyasins
Them being sannyasins is totally irrelevant to the story …
Is it?
Do you think that sannyasins are any different? Domestic violence is very sad but common.
Domestic murder is a somewhat different case though (although most murders are apparently ‘in the family’).
I’m not saying sannyas caused this ‘tragedy’, but the woman being a Centre Leader and the man having recently returned from doing groups in Poona, with the aim of ‘de-coking’ his propensity for violence is not exactly likely to act as an attractive ‘advert’ for ‘mainstream sannyas’, is it? How many years had they been on the scene?
Anyway, another salutary piece of news for anyone who’s still under the illusion that simply being part of a movement and having an exotic-sounding name are of any intrinsic value. But perhaps no one believes that rubbish any more…? I wonder….
Yes Satyadeva – I have to agree – it does not portray a very good image of mainstream sannyas (a.k.a. ‘Nutters Allsorts’). In my experience of doing groups in Pune there has been on more than one occasion a person or persons involved who were quite clearly in my view, mentally ill e.g. bipolar, schizo, borderline personality disorder etc.They were obviously in the wrong place, but whilst they paid their money and did not go overboard they were allowed to stay even though it was obvious that they needed clinical care. Unfortunately, some of these nutcases manage to find their way into positions of power within the Osho setup. Guess who?
“The Vatican’s involvement in harassing Osho was declared a fact on 24 December 1989 by Ashok Row Kavi, an Indian columnist for the Bombay Sunday Mail.”
I have read for many years that the article comes from the London Mail on Sunday of the same date. If anyone is flush for about £20, you can get a researcher at the BL Newspaper Library London to send you a photo copy. Any punters? I’d be curious to see what it says.
The biggest mistake the big O made was to create a society for self indulgent botanists of other people’s self indulgence and then hand out ambition like it was worth booking the next training , post training training, neo neo advanced training, complete with road maps in gibberish of what being alive is for without
1) any piss taking
2) no piss taking
3) no piss taking
4) the manual of the ground rules for the yes you guessed it …. no piss taking…
5) The guide book on having the piss taken out of you from above whilst you nodded in agreement.
The day anyone has a revelation in any of these self aggrandizing business meditwation centres operating under the brand name, it will be because they see the overarching role model is ;
1) the master never apologised for anything
2) nobody in similar psychospiritual authority ever apologised for anything that could possibly insinuate the whole shambolic mess as being orchestrated, not through collective equal mutual intentions but by ‘ I’m in charge deference power’, vis a vis the Great Khan and his supremely definitive loving, photo smiley, happy clappy , don’t push it mate, cheer leaders.
3) You are required to apologise, not for us but for your own good, either implicitly deferentially, personally, or with a letter to the headmaster in Pune…Nepal, Delhi, etc etc…..twas ever so.. And the bitch models of power were everything your meditation could give you….stamped sealed delivered institutionally.
If anyone else finds, like me, that the aspirational super grope leaders who are to be found in the Easymedi on-board on-message travel magazines, are anything but profiteering smug hope sellers then please write in and start a campaign to have a ‘Taking the Piss’, as a list of Osho links on the right hand side of SN’s home page. And no I won’t be on it … they the Super grope-tistas and all their nasty air brushed role modelling will be.
Religion and taking the piss have been hysterical, historical enemies. When Osho says laugh , he means approved laughter not sannyas self directed everyone is included, damaging satire. When Osho’s message is still sold as salvationist , by the otherwise unemployed, unemployable Bourgeois Wunder Kinds and people best avoided as specialists in anything but themselves.. then it’s time to chuck everything in a suitcase and run…..
the worst is the sanctimonious ones…
Pity the poor newcomer sods , being given Osho salvation rhetoric in modern day forever unassailable institutes for the blind.
And then one day (or maybe two hundred) I had a clarion called trumpeted revelation ……and stopped even wanting to interfere, or be part of a living thriving loving community of ….witless psychotic abuse , in the style of religion through the ages.
To be misanthropic is very healthy when the alternatives are glossy, cash culture, behaviour-adaption institutes still using cloning equipment from the ’80s.
Is it that bad? really? Yes it is, complete with tricky dicksters at every angle ready to rip you off in every imaginable form of abuse.
You have been warned.
Please send off for my Take the Piss-O meter and see if, as others claim you are less loving or are just having more real fun and insights than they paid for.
which reminds me of the time, as part of a street anarchic theatre group, when i was but a long haired youth, we all appeared, heavily fancy-dressed up on charges, in Bow Street Magistrates court ….
but that’s another story…..
Sounds like resistance, swami….
I’d like a list of all the positive elements now …
@BV…what ? following a kit inspection on the sannyas parade ground…..?
well alright..
i had lots of pussy….at a price
and satoris and energy darshan….
which i will now turn into a set of acquiescent behaviour rules for applicable definitions of ‘Entitlement’ at St Osho’s school for Legacists.
prem martyn says:
which i will now turn into a set of acquiescent behaviour rules for applicable definitions of ‘Entitlement’ at St Osho’s school for Legacists.
St. Trinian’s more likely …
Following the great Indian tradition of protests, Osho World can organise Êx. Pope’s dummy burning event. it will catch the attention of world press!
When Osho loves to be in news for right or wrong reasons why organisations in His name shy away from it?
Yes, but it’s a long time ago and who out there would be that much interested? Are you a political activist or a contemporary ‘spiritual seeker’, Shantam?
Shantam is applying for the pope position. Politics + Religion. Two for one.
Spiritual seekers are political activists on existential level. They fight with the mind or negotiate with the mind or watch the movements of mind, purpose is the liberation of the soul or liberation from soul!
Clerical beings think they can get it as grace as Shaktipat, Political prisoners think, through their fight, they will earn it.
Different personalities, different paths..Same world(words), different interpretations.
And which of these categories best describes you then, Shantam? (Honest response only, please. Thank you).
Bodhi Vartan, How shantam can apply for Pope’s position?
Dreamy i may be but not this much.
Surely i apply for Osho Inner circle chairman position, and first work will be to open the doors of heart, let all the ex. and present sannyasins come and do Mystic Rose..
Five times more people @ three time less cost..
shantam prem says:
Vartan, How shantam can apply for Pope’s position?
If you are infallible apply at: jobs@vaticancity.va
It is kind of tiring to me, but still I read those article on Osho sometimes. These things (stories and mind-wars) must take a long time till they won’t attract my mind anymore. And sometimes (very often so) my own premature freedom acts as if I am allready done with it – as follows now:
Once again a special group of true followers to a true master supports individuals concerned about the Sannyas-disapproval of powerful old religions and politics. Emotional hung-ups feel threatened, suppressed and cast out by society … The pope was against us – and Osho. Ronald Reagan and dirty USA fought against us … and so on and on. Then at the end Osho always was the greatest of all the supermen the world had ever seen and WE ALONE could see this with intelligent and awakened eyes …
This is just such an old old song or all religions of the world and it is time to drop it. The real thing happens in me – and you – and not in a special group ighting against any empire or religion.
Sannyas has only a small lineage of enlightened ones compared to Ramana’s and Advaita influence for example. Why is that so ? Osho with his bombastic supermind being the Buddha of the Buddhas created a tendency in his disciples to also try in that juicy making of great wise words – just like him – and feel strong about holding some sort of super-truth initiated by their sure enough greatest of all masters ever walking the earth.
In all those years since Osho’s light has been taken away we can see what remained here: Our isolated closed circle veteran philosophy that prevents us from being fresh and new to life and truth here & now. Instead of that we talk clever and feel great in our religious dreams – just like all the other priests and believers in human history before.
Find your living master now, if you can still see a candle burning with true doubt … or simply be on your own – if you can – and drop the whole stupid spiritual trip of premature Osho-stolen understanding.
Sannyas is just a dead vehicle shown in a certain spiritual cult museum.
Thank you for your post Veetom. Very clear, precise and useful contribution.
veettom says:
>> It is kind of tiring to me, but still I read those article on Osho sometimes. …
>> Sannyas is just a dead vehicle shown in a certain spiritual cult museum.
You use a laughing sun as your avatar but I don’t see much light coming from you. Just doom and gloom. Sannyas is freedom from the known. You have to deprogram again … the mirror has to always stay clean in order to reflect properly.
‘Doom and Gloom’ The Stones best song in years.
‘
Fracking deep for oil
But there’s nothing in the sump
There’s kids all picking
Ar the garbage dumb
I’m running out of water
So I better prime the pump
I’m trying to stay sober
But I end up drunk’
Wasn’t ending up drunk in the market place the last of Osho’s Zen bullshit stories?
Pass me that bottle and I’ll sing you all a real song.
Just talked to someone who’d visited Poona recently. Took sannyas back in 75. He thought Poona was an absolute mess, pollution, traffic etc. Went to the Resort and didn’t bother to enter, couldn’t be bothered with all the AIDS test etc. He was with his girlfriend. (Heard a story recently about a group of sannyasin women who were at the Resort looking for revenge. They were all infected with HIV and wanted to fuck as many men men as possible without using condoms.) My conclussion is that Poona is perhaps the biggest obstacle to visiting the Resort. Who cares about who is in charge there? Shantam and that is about it. Poona is an undesireable destination. If you could shift the whole shebang along with Osho’s ashes to a pleasant location people might be a little more inclined to visit. It would seem part of Osho’s legacy is setting up shop in the wrong place. It wasn’t always like that, but it is now.
thats right.
i remember people were taking rickshaws just to cross north main road(now 8-50 lane highway with plenty of “drivers”coming down the wrong way,india style),and that was quite some years ago now……
over there,jeremy clarkson is a bigger guru than osho these days!
as much as 20 years ago, i met folks who were thinking they were having a healing crisis when they had symptoms of pollution sickness.!
i said,get up into the hills,mahabaleshwar or somewhere,get some fresh air….
indian cities are death traps.
for example,official figures estimate that at least 50% of population have ongoing respisatory complaints
shantam is still dreaming about the days when he was a landlord in pune and could wave his willy at the girls.
well,these days they wont even be able to see it(ok it was probably quite difficult anyway)through the clouds of industrial fumes and dust!!
they need to move somewhere different.with a bit of space.forget all that “india is a spiritual place” bollox. all that is just a relatively small slice of the entertainment industry pie in the new cash-crazy india…and if you`re a woman,these days,statistically, you`re more likely to get raped than enlightened!
osho did everything he could to avoid going back to india,remember..?
theres gotta be somewhere better,what about brazil,uruguay,new zealand,maybe even switzerland…?
it really is auto-geddon over in india.
did you know that in the last 5 years,about the same number of people have died on the roads in india as in the mass-psychosis massacres of the partition in 1947?
and total serious injuries far far more….
the risk of terrorism is nothing compared to trying to cross the road!
it may be a surprise that a good deal of it is drink related.
here`s one for the old hippies.
someone told me they were on the the road up to amarnath,beloved of pilgrims saddhus and the more intrepid freaks who travelled on foot thru the mountains,back in the day.
it was a solid traffic jam,stuck for days…bumper to bumper metal all the way up several thousand feet of hair-pin bends.
religion = tourism
get with it.
enlightentertainment is the future.
Surely it cannot be that bad.
Look at life expectancy figures for India
https://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:IND&dl=en&hl=en&q=life%20expectancy%20india
alok,
actually, increased “life expectancy” doesnt help….
it simply means that there are increasingly more and more people of all ages to have respiratory problems and to get run over and have more accidents on the roads !
Pune nowadays is an environmental disaster i.e. smokey, fumey, shithole! I first went there in 2002, and from then on fairly frequently until 2010. I will not go again – the air quality being one of several reasons why. It progressively got worse each year. I frequently went down with some kind of respiratory illness (as most visitors these days do), within 2 weeks of arriving, and then struggled to get over it until moving to somewhere with cleaner air like Goa for example.
The management is well aware of the problem, but as you would expect from those esteemed disciples of the truth , it is all swept under the carpet because obviously it is not good for business. Their favourite ploy for damage limitation is by claiming that your illness is down to some ‘stuff’ coming up that needs processing, because of some meditation or therapy work that you have been engaged in! (Pull the other one -it’s got bells on!). In fact they are extremely touchy about the issue as one of my friends found out to his chagrin a few years ago. He turned up at the Main Gate wearing a cold mask which he had been told to wear by his dentist after just having a few teeth extracted. He got another mouthful in exchange from the ‘cop on the block’ (Dhyanesh) who rudely pointed out to him that by wearing the mask he was sending out the wrong message re. the local air quality. After explaining his situation, he was allowed to keep it on for a couple of hours! Nice eh!
Finally, if the air quality doesn’t make you sick then there is a good chance that the fierce air-con in the auditorium will. The management is also unresponsive to complaints on this issue as well. Whatever happened to peace, love and understanding?
‘Haaa.. achhaa… not understanding.. haaa meter broke haa…baba no change…..backside arshram ok?’
”Yes, Baba, backside, ok…”
‘One ee question ebaba? Ebaba undereestand, when Osho maha-mata patata guru, eesay ‘watch the thoughts’, why he no say arshram accounts hidden in swiss car park, with no plans to develop micro credit scheme for Indian women, as they cannot understand being the watcher, unlike middle class people who really can grapple with revolutionary anti-papist semantics for the new age ? please eeebaba can explain what is problem ? ‘ ….
honk , honkpaarrrp
Very funny!
A Reply by Osho Remaining Foundation CarParks International :
We have been social revolutionary policists for alternative societies for so many years, that we will go down in history as having the most wonderful gardens to relax in, in which patrolling disciples actually prevent anybody lying down on the benches, if spotted.
If that isn’t uprooting social inequality as a vanguard, hey you must be anti-sannyas. We have encouraged taking money from one person and giving it to somebody else in the name of weekend liberating closed door permanent ongoing mad as you like liberation, since Bhagwan changed my name, and the effect of this cannot be counted in the net effect on society.
Just try our hugs and see how much more antigandhian and watchful they are compared to your granny. That’s a revolution in the making.And if you need a good mouthwash for your toothless comments, we can recommend you a good orthodontrickshan.
We actually donate a helluva lot of money to people who design Ashram swimming pools without a sundeck area., so you plebs don’t cause trouble smooching.
Anway what do you think this is a friggin charity ?
His blessings,
The Management.
Today i am 50, still alive, still no enlightened..still not in guru profession
( who says you need to be Buddha to be in this line of profession; even Buddha was that much “Buddha” i doubt)
Our life experience molds our perception. For example, when i enetred Osho Ashram, i was virgin whereas most of the sannyas takers were already fucked up by the life..
Above post of Lokesh is enough proof, i can be right in my hypothesis.
Unless Virgin by heart are in a decision making position; Osho’s Pune will remain a paradise for fucked up oldies who find it easier there to get young seekers; not from around the world; only ex. Soviet Block coutries!
shantam,dear,you are still virgin in my eyes..
virgin` on the ridiculous…!
anyway,happy birthday…
Shantam,
May you receive 50 birthday bumps, and indulge in tip top totty, at any local Osho centre for ageing fuddy chuddies. Helping you to take the score to fifty ..plus one…(and yes, totty in old English is exactly what you think it is).
I’m sure I speak for all the story tellers here on the Thousand and One nights, inside the men’s steamy story sauna rooms in rose-perfumed old Araby, in wishing you a very……
Happy Bathday.
M
‘still no enlightened’ Golly, that’s quite a confession.
shantam prem says:
>> Our life experience molds our perception.
Your history is your psychology, until you become enlightened. Happy Birthday Shantam, and to many more.
St Osho’s School Open Day
SpringTerm…
A letter from the Headmaster :
Following the tremendous success of last year’s ‘Open Day’ at the school , where we traditionally celebrated our founder with a ‘I’m For St Osho’ all day schedule of school achievements, we are happy to repeat it all over again.
This year,and not without a serving of the infamous St Osho-type controversy, the Board of Governors have decided to promote the same day in the true spirit of our Ms and Master Chief, the long awaited ‘Anti St Osho’ open day.
The schedule will include sports, as usual, and all sorts of fun events including the ever popular 4th year’s Drama Queen Society production of the Dire Straits song ‘Moany For Nothing’, following a half hearted attempt at a shortened, simply neighbour annoying version of Dynamic meditation.
The governors have especially requested that we keep proceedings unaware this year, as last year’s events made locals notoriously conscious of the raucous behaviour at the school Disco. Local parents were complaining of devotional activities well after midnight outside the school grounds. This year we have assured them that the Anti-St Osho school party will be held in the refectory, as an Irish Theme Night , and everyone will be incapable of anything long before 12pm.
___________
Charity Event
——————
This year our guest speaker and a friend of the school matron Ma Shanhandia Toxemia, will be the retired, Ma Dementia Sheela, who will be sketching out the truth for which she has brought a large box of crayons to explain things with. Her endless charity marathon talk will be kindly sponsored by Nestle, Swiss Car Parks, and Findus (if you can ), producers of fine foods with a load of horseshit in it.
———-
Sports.
———-
This year sees the welcome return of our Over-Egged Spoon Race, plus the Enlightenment Stakes and Heretic Burning Parents and Teachers Bonanza.
The theme of this year’s Anti St Osho Open or stay closed day, will be ‘Looking for Parmartha and Franks Enlightenment ‘.
Fragments of Nothing But The Truth will be hidden all over the school grounds, for aspirants to make sense of, with clues and false trails being laid to get everyone in a right old tiswas. The winner will receive a year’s supply of wholistic dentistry and free Truth removal, plus their own, edited version, of camping it up laughing gas canisters, kindly donated by the Flirty Fishing and Julian Clary Tackle Shop.
——————————————————–
Combined Armed Anti Red Neck Cadet Force.
——————————————————–
This is always a favourite, with the school’s institutional contribution to spiritually armed manoeuvres for everyone to remember the real anti Osho days.
An illegal memorial Fly Past will be held in memory of the teachers in the English department of Prem Martyn’s old school, with the special ‘Elephant’s Trunk and Trouser pockets turned out for the Ears’, special formation of the Queen’s own Character Forming, Red Arrowseholes.
________________
Closing Ceremoany
________________
This spring we at St Osho’s will be welcoming a new intake of Staff, always ready to improve on last years image and book signing. Owing to a drop in numbers of students arriving from the West looking for the Far East we have this year seen an increase in students of the Far East looking for the Far West (Bollywood 1963 Elvis Style ). We have therefore tailored our instructions for a new dynamic meditwation to include much more emphasis on going in, then going out and checking out the hotties.
1st Stage. Blowing your nose in the gutter with one finger, because you don’t use a handkerchief. 15 minutes to half an hour every morning, directly outside someone’s window.
2nd stage. Washing the Glass for serving the Tea from a barrow hawker, in the same gutter water, behind the barrow. Then shouting aaaaaaa amoebas, followed by…. bother, .. ….and how annoying., hah India.
3rd Stage. Jumping up and down looking for the State Chief Minister who has just attended the photo opportunity and book and bakshish signing ceremoney.
4th Stage. Relax, but not that much keeping one eye open for the talent.
Celebration.. congratulate yourself on not being too old and not looking like Mother Theresa in her white robes ..and …….just a minute……
Once we are free from our perceptions, our psychology, our ego; it will be called Enlightenment..
So let us presume five such enlightend people gather in a room. Do these people will look like five empty bottles of Coca Cola, fanta, Pepsi,Sprit and an empty can of Red Bull!
There obvious emptiness is emptiness for the uninitiated..in reality they are all full with air!
shantam prem says:
>> So let us presume five such enlightend people gather in a room.
I see the makings of a massive orgy.
Deepless deep.
What so ever may be the religion, billions of people find their solace at the steps of their beliefs. Happy healthy person can show contempt to all the religious placibos, but there are people too, who get wounded, sick, betrayed lost by the volcanic erruptions of life.
When the tears are shed in aloneness, one feels some solace in the presence(imaginary!) of their diety..There is some Jesus, some Buddha some where..who holds, gives the courage to carry the cross of life..
As long as helplessness follows us like a shadow, candle of religions will go on lightning the resiliance…
mother theresa didn’t think so….
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-3199062.html
Shantam do you think the universe ‘thinks’ like mother theresa.. that suffering is marvellous hence she treated no one at her Belsen sanatorium, not even with aspirin . and that just having a credo is enough in itself ? Indian catholic style ?
If anyone is going to take away pain it is definitely the sufferer ( with a little help from their jolly good loving friends,), via ‘the work’… apparent blind faith has not given Shantam the liberation he wants .. yet…..
Rumi said suffering shows us the place where we are bravely working….we are not separate from reality, its just that all of our life seems to want us to ‘work’ for it with endeavour, so that we are capable of receiving more than just the unformed universe…. but the conundrum is that our efforts and the liberation are not linearly connectable….apparently..
the universe reminds me that I am here.. that’s all…
… for now…and part of knowing… in whatever form that takes…
if you ask Why Jesus? you might get trapped in the idea of him being better off than you….or all sorts of projections…
he may well not be (the cross… or time, aka experience, intersected with eternity and refreshed in the moment as you read this )..
maybe J or O just face the limitations and have a good look at what they are…..
where do you want to stick darkness ? in a box ? then run away and hide from it, or yourself ?
(ooooooh martyn’s gone all glad raggy…. must be the mountain air….)
prem martyn says:
mother theresa didn’t think so….
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-3199062.html
That is gold. What a stupid bitch. She missed all that lovely tantra and bringing up her own kids and for what? A Jesus that doesn’t exist and never existed. Serves her right!
She is was nearly as disappointed with her religion as you are with yours Martyn. Hehe.
@ BV…ah but thats the whole point of religious appointments….one always misses them and one has to keep re-booking a time when one will be free…
And remember you can’t make a booking for anyone else, but you can leave a message.
and as for my public nudity here on SN….. did I ever mention the time we stripped off as a bunch of doctors and nurses on the London to Brighton naked bike ride….caused a right old pile up…..
thats the knob of the matter..
I think we may have been inspired by Hair the musical…!
” Let the Fun shine In ……the Funnnn shine in….”
BV …if you want to see my reply , you’ll have to go to http://oshopirates.wordpress.com..
Aye lad, the mountain air can affect a man in such a way, but ’tis in the marketplace that a man finds the true test of his metal.
” मैंने अपने लोग पा लिए हैं, मैंने अपना संसार पा लिया है, मैंने अपना खुद का एक छोटा सा ग्रह पा लिया है, जहाँ प्रेम ही एकमात्र नियम है, जहाँ हंसी प्रार्थना है, जहाँ नृत्य दिव्यता है, जहाँ हर पल पवित्र है और जहाँ सहज होना एकमात्र आध्यात्मिकता है । ”
I have found my people, i have found my world, i have found my own little planet, where love is the only law, where laughter is prayer, where dancing is divine, where every moment is sacred and where to be just normal is the only spirituality…
These are the words of Osho, who attracted few brave hearts from the world crowd. These are the expressions when master was still alive..
Is the management occupying property and master´s vast treausres can preserve this feeling?
if not, they have no right to be there…
When rules change, when master is in the body and master not in the body, then there is no master at all..It was just a business!
Ho..hum.
shantam prem says:
>> I have found my people, i have found my world, i have found my own little planet, where love is the only law, where laughter is prayer, where dancing is divine, where every moment is sacred and where to be just normal is the only spirituality…
>> Is the management occupying property and master´s vast treausres can preserve this feeling?
That is a beautiful statement by Osho. Somehow I don’t see the current resort management wanting to be with his people or have any understanding of what his people entail.
I recently found this below. It goes back a bit but it is the kind of result you can get when you put disparate people together without having a loving plan for them.
The Sannyas Secret Service
http://www.sannyas-spies.zoomshare.com/
Quite an interesting bit of reading if you have a taste for the bzarre. The SSS…it does not get any more weird than that and all in the name of Osho’s legacy and message.
Although well written there are a number of statements that are not entirely true. Take this one, ‘People don’t join cults – cults recruit people.’ Not true. People do join cults.
If Osho has a legacy it s a confusing one at best. If Osho has a message it is multi-layered and very open to interpretation.
Although coming across as educated, the article is obviously written by someone who must be utterly stupid. Fits in with many who believe themselves to be doing the master’s work.
Shantam provides us with the perfect example of a stupid person who somehow manages to maintain an image and belief that he is furthering Osho’s work. I see he has just turned fifty, yet his warped logic is more suiting to an adolescent with a fixation. Most older sannyasins who are broadcasting Osho’s message either have somne sort of investment in doing so or are, like Shantam, completely lost.
Osho had much to impart the mistake is to worship him instead of learning what you can from the man and moving on. If you are worshipping the finger and failing to look at the moon being pointed out you are in effect confused.
I couldn’t read the sss, despite several attempts…too dense , no levity.
Vartan , several times SN hasn’t published my nobel prize hilarious replies to you, which means you’ve gone to bed happy, but without a dialogue reposte, replies which are forever gone from the annals of history down the plughole of time itself, into the great recycle bin in the sky.
BV … is your inference : ‘I am doing the understanding of the being of the osho of the sannyas and you are not ? ‘ And which way round is that ? Do you have an orthodox persecution complex ?
If you want I can admit that clearly my mission is to force everyone to agree with my reality, which will intentionally also lead to the corruption of youth, and the rescheduling of school timetables and the loss of innate grace and spiritual vitality to boot.
After that one is over, we can do naa neee nanahh nah, and poke our tongues out if you want….
prem martyn says:
>> I couldn’t read the sss, despite several attempts…too dense , no levity.
Try again. It’s really twisted.
>> Vartan , several times SN hasn’t published my nobel prize hilarious replies to you, which means you’ve gone to bed happy, but without a dialogue reposte, …
You’ve done a lot of work on your Oshopirates site. If I could output as much as you I’d be ruling the world by now. I enjoyed the TEDx report on treating our manic depressive economy. If you like that kind of stuff Max Keiser is the most knowledgeable person I know … can be funny too:
Max Keiser – Financial War Reports
http://maxkeiser.com/
PS SN have been publishing your comments to me and I’ve sleeping soundly.
Why, Jesus ?
Maybe because we don’t see life as it is but how we would want it to be in a bottled state of paradisiacal non experience….
the problem comes with borrowing signs or copying the flags of this or that ness…
here is what can happen when you copy a well known brand without doing your own research…..
http://www.topito.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/traductions_merde_028.jpg
and lookie what i just found on my facebook with literally two clicks from someone’s post to me… bloody synchronicity…..without even trying…
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/602056_432921226782283_1293809512_n.jpg
Time and again history has shown, there is no need to be near Buddha, when Buddha is alive. For what?
Any way, Buddha is going to spread all around, when dead…Buddhas don´t die they leave the body but remain alive…So lucky are those who come in contact with Buddha when he is gone..yet here…
I feel sorry for the people, who took the begging bowl under the seduction of Gautma the Buddha!
shantam prem says:
>> I feel sorry for the people, who took the begging bowl under the seduction of Gautma the Buddha!
If I were you I’d find something better to do than feeling sorry for nameless people. Religions, all religions are kaput. That game is over. All there is left is meditation and having people who love you.
What a load of nonsense Shantam continues to produce. Dressed up in supposed spirituality his words contain nothing but hot air. He talks as if he understands his subject matter but in reality has not a clue as to what he is talking about Pity the fool who is taken in by such a poor deception.
Lokesh says:
>> What a load of nonsense Shantam continues to produce. Dressed up in supposed spirituality his words contain nothing but hot air. He talks as if he understands his subject matter but in reality has not a clue as to what he is talking about …
I think Shantam has a secret agenda. Nobody can be that stupid and still be functional. He is probably playing a role for our amusement.
God treasures had a codded lock.
type in capitals
P R A Y
Millions of people for hundreds of years jumped over this information.
Treasures were getting looted almost like Fossil oil in Arabian desert. Even unworthy like Sultan and Shaikhs were having good time.
Someone suggested the treasury manager to change the secret code word again.
Few Indians from Central India have again decoded it.
Type with small letters
m e d i t a t e
As one sees around, meditation has become a new prayer, a easy way to get quick rich!
Even if you have seen the blood bath with your own eyes, you will deny it with all your might, if it has happened at the place of your devotion.
My gurus people doing mistake, no no no…they were the thugs from the neighbour villages..
no no no it was a Pope the Benedict!
Shantam, you are back on the solvents again obviously. Why not write a wee book with your amassed ravings? Where there is muck there is gold and you are an expert at producing undecipherable muck. Thanks, once again, for providing us with our very own version of the village idiot. Are you a masochist?
This book reveals the other day-to-day side of Krishnamurti’s life and as such would be enough to highlight the discrepancies between the public portrayal of Krishnamurti as the idealised, enlightened, chaste being and his all too human pettinesses. For most of us in the 1990′s his long term monogamous, sexual relationship with the woman whom he was acknowledged as closest to, would not be considered particularly negative, indeed many would consider it, at worst, morally neutral. The secrecy of the relationship could even be rationalised as a bow to the conventional societal/sexual hypocrisy of the times – a harmless deception to prevent scandal preventing people appreciating the purity of the teaching.
But not many would be able to accept the three secret, illegal (and therefore dangerous) abortions that Rosalind had of three children of Krishnamurti and the lies, recriminations and emotional trauma that all of the protagonists endured in the 1950′s. It will be extremely difficult for anybody interested in Krishnamurti’s teachings to see them as coming from an authentic source who has transcended any of the worst of the human condition and without the “authentification” of Krishnamurti’s supposed enlightenment and the romantic glamour of his idealised portrayal, they are just another set of utopian concepts.
A few instant thoughts:
Since when has a Master had to be ‘morally perfect’, ie ‘perfect’ according to the conventional morality of his/her times (or indeed, any times)? Or ‘perfect’ in any sense, other than in consciousness?
Hasn’t such an impossible ideal of ‘perfection’ been handed down through the ages, in the western world, by the Christian Church and its agents, as a means of controlling people by making them, ie us, feel unworthy, guilty?
So we live our lives in a thoroughly hypocritical world of double standards. If you dare to challenge the powers-that-be in any meaningful way, so that you appear to be some sort of threat to them, you’re ‘crucified’, in one way or another.
Is it so surprising then that a man like Krishnamurti tried to conceal his private sexual life, given the stiflingly repressive standards of his time and culture? Remember, we’re talking about the 50′s here! From our contemporary viewpoint it looks as if he didn’t handle it so well, but since when has a Master had to be ‘infallible’ in dealing with the massed ranks of ‘the world’ – including established religions and their bogus ‘moral authority’, politicians, Press, education systems, the whole wretched set-up – which is as voracious as a wild animal in its insatiable hunger to condemn, to feed on so-called ‘scandal’ and its resulting rich and bloody pickings?
If, despite any understanding of such powerful mitigating factors, Krisnamurti (or any Master deemed to have failed the ‘morality test’) still appears to have ‘blown it’, to have been a bit of a fool, a bit stupid even, so what? Who says such a man (or woman) is not allowed to make a mistake? Or even (‘God forbid’!) to have behaved at times like ‘a bit of an ass-hole’?
well sufi, scifi,
thats a welcome note on all things k’murti … its news to me that she had three abortions….that he had sexual relations was also hidden from the public eye until some books came out about ten years ago….
even we at Osho farm were shocked when the big O declared he’d still be having sex if it wasn’t for his bad back….
sannyasoids, including me, thought the sex thing, when entitlement arrived, meant the Pun(e)ani wasn’t of any interest…..and one just sat there and hummed to oneself for fun….me kyan belii dat no mowa
anyway big up to the Staines Massive, and your friend Sanjiv
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And don’t forget Osho’s bad back was created by the CIA. They slipped a disc into his dahl and….well, the rest is history.
Lokesh…
Why let us worry about the facts when we can draw our own conclusions anyway with or without evidence, is the lesson from the stressful disciplehood of these grand master flashes….
and
‘It was all a device’ is much better for the ‘work it out for yourselves’ , ‘i so love sannyas’ centre brigadistas, then, come to OUR conclusions…sort of a bit more long winded but works the same as outright ’80 type denial.
as far as I’m concerned outside of me, its all them anyway….
me i’ll just go for the vice part, the rest is his-story.
Quite right. Three cheers for Parmartha and all the homies at SN. Big up!
Here’s a definition of “Homies”
-
“The dudes who ride with you ‘till the motherfuckin’ end.”.
Yeah, it feels like that on SN sometimes. Thanks Lokesh and all you old mates.
Martyn:
What’s the background to the Chomsky vid? I thought he came out of it pretty well, though I suppose the point of the vid is that Chomsky did not know that Al G was a fake interviewer? Please enlighten me!
Parmartha,
I don’t know about what you mean by background, it’s just Sacha Cohen doing his thing.The formula is what you say.. they, the interviewees don’t know its a fake interview.
You may also know that both are of Jewish stock, Cohen being married in orthodox form, how about that for the pusher of limits ? When Ali G says he knows a lot of words like .. spaghetti, camera… then the buzzers should start going off. He played with the fact that despite all of his victims life reality roles, they are so’ in them ‘ that they rarely if ever could hear the inference. Logical rationalist anarchist with anarchic court jester ? The words wet behind the ears and ingenue spring to mind.
SCIFI, sexual morality is for the poor of the mind or the poor in the pocket. Artists, clever people, and the rich, don’t give a toss about any of that rubbish like where to stick or where not stick one’s genitals.
while sniffing nox and getting high ….OSHO said he and J are tired of pretending enlightenment.
Wow, Scifi, that’s quite a revealation. I’m shocked to the core of my being.
After enlightenment how can J induldge himself into sexual relationship. After total contentment …is there need for such things ??? If he is doing for experiment like tibetan tantra , is another thing but this is not case here. J and Rosa … love is in the air.
What would you know about such matters, Mr Moralist?
Do you have the remotest inkling what ‘enlightenment’ is, or what it isn’t?
Do you have a clue about what is love and what is sex – the difference?
Do you know what tantra is? (If you have to use the prefix “Tibetan”, I have my doubts).
I’m not claiming any such knowledge for myself, but I’d bet a pound to a penny you’re also an utter ignoramus in these areas.
Is sufi back as Scifi?
I am willing to sponser his mental evolution.
Ehm, shantam, I think at this point in time it’s best you concentrate on your own..ehm…mental evolution.
Lokesh, call me any name..people like you give me the material for my satires..
“I was digging deeper deeper deeper, even with the imported machines and highly expansive know how.
what to say about oil, even water which came was not that sweet!”
PS_Vartan and Lokesh please notice, it is with inveretd comas and exclamation mark. So don´t write shantam says….
General observations are not most of the time personal statements.
Ooooh, you are really fathoming the depths today, Shantam. Don’t forget to decompress on your way back up to the surface.
Satya deva once offered me to edit my words for the book.
” Reflections of an Osho´s Idiot”
I think title fits with my temprament, square peg in a round hole!
” Reflections of an Osho´s Idiot” Good title. Is it available on Kindle?
shantam prem says: …..
>> ” Reflections of an Osho´s Idiot”
I think title fits with my temprament, square peg in a round hole!
Shantam, if you know you are an idiot then you are not an idiot so stop pretending. Idiots actually think they are clever and is the problem …
By the way, the hole is square.
Parmartha found this, thought of Paritosh’s origins, thought you might be interested historically et al
http://www.ubu.com/film/debord_spectacle.html
true more than ever….
cheers m..
Thanks Martyn.
Yes Pari meant a lot to me. I miss him. Basically, even in sannyas his anarchist roots were always refreshingly there – and his sense of theatre which made him such a good “situationalist”.
Whenever you take something from Osho News please ask us first and add link to our article. Minimum of courtesy! Thanks.
Punya
Osho News
Punya, join in more.. we like to have fun with all sorts here…..even the Posh official ones….
Thanks.
oh and while you’re there Punya, do you know that delivering images and words of truth without reply, unless you do a group by a professionally trained member of the social democracy’s psyched up bourgeoisie, who will ordain what is and isn’t ‘vulnerable’ osho aligned enquiry for collective benefit is a way of self promoting autocracy for the managers of the new class of psycho contortionists of so called rebellion , which patently isn’t.
Ps The ranch was a device for understanding the relationship between babies and bathwater throwing… take a risk…you know old style and have a reply section on what orchestrating other people’s attitudes in safe asylums actually fully means… or should we all wear white and shut up.
A minimum amount of rebelliousness, please.
Thanks,
prem martyn
this is the link:
http://www.oshonews.com/2013/02/pope-benedict-harassed-osho-during-1980s/
Punya,
this was a Press Statement originally put out by Oshoworld which we acknowledged in the first post on this string.
A Press statement is universally available to all other press sources, that is the point of it.
Cannot see why we needed to acknowledge you also. You yourselves were simply passing on the Oshoworld statement, as we were.
Maybe you rushed to judgement.
Sannyasnews Board here:
In future we will acknowledge anything from OshoNews – we have in the past done that often. it seems less relevant with all the mutual sharing that goes on on the web, but if that is what you want we will do it.
Nonetheless Punya please appreciate we are not publishing articles, but creating blogs. And our readers on the whole are into discussion, etc, so they read the stimulus and then the comments as one thing.
Your own site made a decision as I understand it to never blog. Whatever reasons you have for that so be it. But it is a different form of creativity going on here in which within reason everyone can join.
‘And our readers on the whole are into discussion, etc.’
Etc. usually wins out.